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下个学期，我还不知道
Next term, I would not know
呢。
yet.
为什么
Why
生活到现在怎么样？
is life so far?
听起来好像很简单。
Like, it sounds so simple.
他们根本没有
They had
概念。
no idea.
但现在
But now
我找到的这些数据不仅令人耳目一新，而且在某种程度上令人震惊。
the data's I find this not only refreshing, but but at some level astounding.
自然。
Nature.
欢迎回到《自然》播客。
Welcome back to the Nature Podcast.
本周，我们将迎来一年一度的节日特别节目。
This week, it's time for our annual festive spectacular.
会有游戏和歌曲。
There'll be games and songs.
我们会听到一些令人难忘的科学礼物。
We'll hear about some memorable science gifts.
还会有关于今年推动科学发展的关键人物的《自然》年度盘点。
And there'll be Nature's roundup of the people who helped shape science this year.
我是尼克·帕特里乔。
I'm Nick Patrichow.
我是本杰明·汤普森。
And I'm Benjamin Thompson.
又到了这个时候。
So it's that time again.
我简直不敢相信又过去了一年。
I can't quite believe another twelve months have passed.
对于那些之前没听过这类节目的听众，我们喜欢稍微换点花样。
For those of you who haven't heard one of these before, we like to mix things up a bit.
首先，现在正是许多人喜欢送礼或收礼的季节。
And to start with, 'tis the season where a lot of folk like to give or perhaps receive gifts.
有时候，这些礼物会深深影响一个人的一生，成为他们重要的精神支柱。
And sometimes these things can resonate through someone's lifetime, really be an important touchstone for them.
我的是原版Game Boy上的《塞尔达传说：林克的觉醒》，既然你问了。
Mine was The Legend of Zelda Link's Awakening for the original Game Boy since you're asking.
你的可能不一样。
Yours may be different.
大自然正在一篇由安妮·玛丽·康隆撰写的文章中，探讨了科学类礼物的持久影响，她现在加入了我们。
And nature has been investigating the lasting impact of science related gifts in a feature article written by Anne Marie Conlon, who joins me now.
安妮·玛丽，你好。
Anne Marie, hi.
你好，本。
Hi, Ben.
很高兴能来这里。
Nice It's to be here.
非常感谢你加入我们。
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
很多出版物都会推出礼品指南，比如十大礼物推荐。
And say a lot of publications do gift guides like things to buy, the top 10 presents.
但你却从一个不同的角度来审视这个问题，对吧？你关注的是那些真正留在人们记忆中的礼物。
And you've been looking at it from kind of a different angle though, right, and saying looking at these things that have stuck in people's minds.
是的。
Yes.
所以我们决定联系我们的读者，询问那些真正留在他们记忆中的礼物，可能是他们童年时收到的礼物，或者同事、实验室伙伴送的礼物，至今仍让他们铭记于心。
So we decided to reach out to our audience and ask them about the gifts that have really stayed in their minds, maybe things that they got as a child or a gift that a colleague gave them, maybe a lab mate, that really they still remember today.
我们向读者征集他们最喜欢的科学类礼物，收到了极大的反响。
So we asked our readers for their favorite science gifts, and we had a huge response.
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
Well, absolutely right.
正如我所说，你已经就这些礼物写了一篇专题文章，读来令人心生温暖。
And you've been writing about them, as I say, in a feature article, and it brings warmth to the heart.
人们回忆起的这些记忆，有时是六十年前、七十年前的事，有时则要近得多。
Some of these memories that people remember, sometimes, you know, sixty, seventy odd years ago and sometimes much more recently.
听到所有读者的来信，真的非常美好。
It's been so lovely to hear from all our readers.
每天收到邮件时，我简直兴奋得尖叫起来。
I was just kind of squealing with delight reading all the emails every day that we got through.
听到这些内容，实际上相当感人。
It was quite emotional to hear some of this, actually.
让我们来列举一些人们告诉你的例子。
And let's run through a few of the examples of things that people have told you about.
我最喜欢的一些例子是人们在很小的时候收到的、真正激发了他们对科学热爱的礼物。
So some of my favorite examples are things that people got as very small children that really sparked a love of science.
其中一个例子是一位名叫吉尔斯·勒克莱尔的男子，他在1968年时11岁，圣诞节时想要一台望远镜。
One of them was a man called Gilles Leclerc, who was 11 years old in 1968, and he asked for a telescope for Christmas.
他正好赶上了阿波罗八号任务进行历史性月球轨道飞行的时候收到了它。
And he got it just in time for the Apollo eight mission that did the historic lunar orbit.
我问他是否试图观测航天器，他说他很清楚自己根本看不到它，但他只是想在那个激动人心的时刻仰望月亮，他一直深深热爱着太空的概念。
And I asked him if he tried to see the spacecraft, and he said he knew well enough that he wouldn't actually see it, but he just wanted to see the moon when it was all a buzz, and he was always really in love with the idea of space.
他最终在加拿大航天局工作，并与美国宇航局讨论如何让加拿大宇航员参与阿尔忒弥斯二号任务。
And he ended up working for the Canadian Space Agency and discussing with NASA how to get a Canadian astronaut onto the Artemis two mission.
他说，当年11岁的自己从未想过能做这样的事。
So he said this is something that 11 year old him never would have dreamed of doing.
所以，这个他童年时收到的礼物，如今竟如此圆满地形成了一个闭环。
So it was so lovely that it's come full circle from this gift he got as a child.
另一个例子是一位名叫乔治·潘塔洛斯的人，他现在是一名心血管和胸外科医生兼生物工程师。
And another example of was from a man called George Pantalos, who's now a cardiovascular and thoracic surgeon and a bioengineer.
他说，他最喜爱的礼物实际上是他五岁时的一次经历。
And he said his favorite gift was actually an experience that he had when he was five years old.
他的父亲有一台短波收音机，他听到了斯普特尼克卫星的信号，这在他心中点燃了对太空中发生之事的浓厚兴趣。
His father had a shortwave radio and he heard the signal from the Sputnik satellite, and that really ignited in him a real fascination with what was happening up in space.
我在与他访谈时了解到的另一个温馨细节是，他的祖父是斯洛伐克人，小时候常叫他‘尤里’。
And another nice detail from that interview that I had with him was that his grandfather is Slovak, and he used to call him Yuri.
就在尤里·加加林进入太空的那段时间，他想：如果那个尤里能去太空，也许这个尤里也能去太空。
And it was around the time that Yuri Gagarin was going into space where he said he thought, if that Yuri can go into space, maybe this Yuri can go into space.
他现在的工作是与美国宇航局及其他航天机构合作，测试如何在太空中进行外科手术。
And his job now involves working with NASA and other space agencies to test things like how you could perform surgical procedures in space.
他告诉我，他目前正在研究的一个问题是：在失重状态下，如何为发生心脏骤停的宇航员进行心肺复苏？
He told me one of the things he's working on right now is the idea of how do you give CPR to an astronaut who's had a cardiac arrest when you're weightless?
天啊。
Goodness.
那么在这些情况下，种子无疑很早就种下了。
Well, in those cases then, the seed was certainly planted early.
你的报道中还体现了一点，那就是书籍也很重要。
One thing that does come across in your feature as well is that books are important as well.
收到一本书，或许被带入另一个世界，有时是促使人们最终成为研究者的关键因素。
Receiving a book and maybe being transported into another world is sometimes a key driver for folk ultimately becoming researchers.
我最喜欢的一个故事来自辛迪·威廉姆斯，她现在是一位退休的植物生态学家。
One of my favorite stories was from Cindy Williams, who's now a retired plant ecologist.
她说，大约十岁时，她收到了姨妈和姨父送的一份礼物，是一本配有立体镜的书，可以清晰地看到图片。
And she said that when she was about 10 years old, she got a present from her aunt and uncle, a book that had a stereoscope so you could kind of see the pictures in vivid detail.
这本书名为《地质学、地理学、保护、林业与测量中的航空立体照片立体镜观看指南》。
And the book was called Aerial Stereophotographs for Stereoscope Viewing in Geology, Geography, Conservation, Forestry, and Surveying.
我得留意一下这个书名。
I need to watch out that title a little bit.
但她说，我非常喜欢这句话。
But she said, I love this quote.
她说，这改变了我的人生。
She said, it changed my life.
他们都不记得了。
They did not remember it.
这充分说明，送礼者可能并未意识到，他们通过赠送一本关于科学的书所传递的影响、智慧与知识有多么深远。
So it just goes to show that the gift givers might not realize the full impact of the gift that they're imparting and the wisdom and the knowledge that they're giving to someone just by giving them a book about science.
这是否意味着，对年轻人来说看似重大的事件，最终却被所有人遗忘，却成为他们内心的核心记忆？
And is this something that follows through what appears to be a momentous event in a young person's life is ultimately forgotten by everybody else, but it's a core memory for them?
是的。
Yes.
许多写信来的人提到，他们的父母曾送他们化学套装或实验设备，这真令人感动。
Well, it's really lovely that a lot of the people that wrote in said their parents got them things like chemistry sets or lab equipment.
生物化学家玛丽·安德森告诉我，她收到这套化学套装时还太小了。
And Mary Anderson, who's a biochemist, said to me that she got this chemistry set when she was too young.
所以我认为她当时大约七岁，她是这么说的。
So I think she was about seven years old, she said.
她说她不太记得父母为什么会给她买这个东西。
And she said she couldn't quite remember why her parents would have got it for her.
她觉得可能是她妈妈在百货商店看到它，觉得外观不错，因为她们家对科学或化学并没有特别的兴趣。
She thought that maybe her mother saw it in a department store and just kinda like the look of it because her family weren't particularly into science or chemistry.
所以有时候，正是这种偶然的相遇，让他们偶然发现了一份礼物，为孩子打开了一整个世界。
So it is this kind of thing of sometimes it's just the chance where they happen upon a gift that opens up a whole world to its small child.
值得指出的是，这篇文章中提到的并不仅仅是给年轻人的礼物。
And it's worth saying it's not just gifts for young people that you cover in this article.
还有一些很好的例子，是那些如今正在从事研究工作的人，他们从同事那里收到的礼物，这些礼物给了他们鼓舞或带来了其他影响。
There are some wonderful examples of folk who are actually working in research now and the gifts they've gotten from their colleagues, which is giving them a lift or whatever it's done.
我特别喜欢的一封邮件来自一位名叫弗吉尼亚·麦克多诺的读者，她是一位分子生物学家。
One email that I really loved was from a reader called Virginia McDonough, who's a molecular biologist.
她说她和丈夫是在研究生院的酵母实验室里认识的。
And she said she and her husband met in graduate school working in a yeast lab.
他们结婚时，作为彼此间的一个玩笑，他们在戒指上刻了一个代表两种交配型酵母融合的图案，他们说家人并不太理解，但他们觉得这很有趣。
When they got married, as a kind of in joke to themselves, they got an engraving on the rings that represents the fusion of two mating types of yeast, which they said their family didn't really understand, but they they thought it was quite fun.
你的专题文章显然已经发布了，我们会把链接放在节目笔记中。
And your feature obviously is out now, and we'll put a link to it in the show notes.
你有没有从中获得一些建议或智慧，可以分享给我们的听众，尤其是那些正在为今年这个时候挑选礼物的人？
Do you think you've picked up any tips, any wisdom you could impart to our listeners if they're looking to get a gift for someone at this time of year?
我一直在思考这个问题，似乎很难预知什么会真正对一个人产生深远影响，因为正如我早期的一位读者所说，令人惊讶的是，人们竟然能记住七十年前收到的礼物。
Well, I was thinking about this, and it seems to be that you can't quite tell what's going to leave a mark on someone because as one of my early readers was saying, it's so amazing that people have remembered gifts from seventy years ago.
我认为一个常见的主题是，我们收到的许多邮件都提到，人们感到自己被看见、被理解，觉得收到的礼物认可了他们早期对科学的兴趣，并帮助它成长。
One of the things that I think is a common theme was that a lot of the emails we got from people mentioned feeling kind of seen or understood or felt like the gifts that they got were kind of acknowledging an early interest in science and helping it grow.
我们收到一封很棒的邮件，讲述了一位如今担任加州动物园执行董事的男士，他说他收到过的最好的科学礼物，是他祖母清理并装框的一副羊头骨。
There was one great email we got about a man who's now the executive director at a zoo in California, and he said that the best science gift he ever got was a sheep skull that his grandmother cleaned and mounted on a frame for him.
他说，令人感动的是，他家人虽然知道他对自然历史感兴趣，却都置之不理，而这份礼物却让他真切感受到祖母的支持。
And he said what was amazing about that was the rest of his family kind of knew he was interested in natural history, but just ignored it, whereas this gift really made him feel supported by her.
而这最终引导他走上了野生动物保护与研究的精彩职业生涯。
And then that's led him to this amazing career in wildlife conservation and research.
在你文章中提到的所有礼物中，有没有哪一件是你自己现在会非常高兴收到的？
And of all the gifts that you write about in your feature, is there any that you yourself would be delighted to get now?
我想，很多礼物都是那种你可能会送给有科学兴趣的孩子的东西，所以对于我这个四十多岁的人来说，收到一套化学实验套装可能不太适用。
I suppose a lot of the gifts are the kind of thing that you might give someone as a child with a burgeoning interest in science, so maybe not totally applicable to me to get a chemistry set in my forties.
但有一个礼物特别能说明，你无法预知什么会让一个人开心：我们的一位读者在中学时曾收到过一些牛的眼睛用于解剖。
But one of the gifts that really shows that you can't tell what's going to make someone happy is one of our readers got some cow's eyes to dissect when she was a child in middle school.
这是因为她是戴眼镜的，想弄清楚眼睛是如何工作的。
And it was because she was a glasses wearer and she wanted to figure out how eyes work.
于是她的母亲从屠宰场给她弄来了几只牛眼（她猜测），她可以自己解剖并观察内部结构。
So her mother got her some cow's eyes from a slaughterhouse, she thinks, and she could dissect them and look inside.
对她来说，这是一份美好而奇妙的礼物。
So that to her was beautiful and an amazing gift.
但我今年可不想要这种礼物，请别送。
And I don't want that this year, please.
所以我想，你永远无法预知什么才是某人最完美的礼物。
So so I think you can never know what's going to be the perfect gift for someone, I suppose.
嗯，我会说最好的礼物是向别人推荐《自然》播客，但我有偏见。
Well, I would say the perfect gift would be telling someone about the nature podcast, but I am biased.
但我们就说到这里吧。
But let's leave it there.
安妮·玛丽，非常感谢你参加我的节目。
Anne Marie, thank you so much for joining me.
很好。
Great.
谢谢。
Thank you.
这是《自然》的安妮·玛丽·康隆。
Nature's Anne Marie Conlon there.
请查看节目说明，获取她那篇特稿的链接。
Head over to the show notes for a link to her feature article.
事实上，安妮·玛丽将在这段短暂的音乐间奏后再次回来。
And in fact, Anne Marie will be back after this brief musical interlude.
是的。
Yes.
没错。
That's right.
现在是我们第一首歌的时间了，这首歌是为了庆祝我们过去一年所讨论的一些科学话题。
It's time for the first of our songs where we celebrate some of the science that we've talked about in the past year.
正如你所记得的，今年有一个关于小恐龙的大新闻。
As you may recall, this year saw a big story about a little dinosaur.
原本被认为是一只幼年霸王龙的化石，实际上是一个独立的物种——纳米暴龙。
A fossil that was thought to be a baby Tyrannosaurus rex was actually its own species, Nanotyrannus.
而在英国，这个季节通常意味着去剧院看一些有点滑稽的演出。
And here in The UK, this time of year often means going to the theater and seeing something a bit silly.
因此，考虑到这一点，接下来是《我就是那只微型霸王龙》，曲调改编自《彭赞斯的海盗》中的少将之歌。
So with that in mind, here's I am the very model of a miniature Tyrannosaur to the tune of the Major General song from the Pirates of Penzance.
我就是那只微型霸王龙，一个与你以前所知的霸王龙截然不同的物种。
I am the very model of a miniature Tyrannosaur, a very different species from the T Rex that you knew before.
尽管你们可能以为我是个孩子，一只小型的暴龙或幼崽，但我现在站在你们面前，几乎完全长大，体型小巧，却是位短小的国王。
And though you may have thought I was a child, a small T Rex or spring, I stand before you almost fully grown up pocket sized, short king.
对你们中的一些人来说，这一发现可能颇具争议，因为专家们之间的争论有时相当激烈，但这项新研究非常明确。
For some of you, this finding could be rather controversial as experts and debates have been at times quite adversarial, but this new study is quite clear.
事实上，这几乎是显而易见的。
In fact, it's almost trivial.
如今，纳米暴龙已清晰无误地站在你们面前。
Though now Nanotiranda stands before you unequivocal.
我的表亲霸王龙是古生物学的标志，但幼年个体在史前记录中一直缺失。
My cousin T Rex is an icon paleontological, but young sters have been missing from the record prehistorical.
因此，当我被发现时，一些研究人员说，这再清楚不过了。
So when I was discovered, some researchers said it's crystal clear.
它很相似，但体型更小。
It's similar, but miniature.
我们在这里发现了我们的幼年霸王龙。
We found our baby T Rex here.
所以当我被发现时，一些研究人员说这非常清晰，相似但体型微小。
So when I was discovered, some researchers said it's crystal clear and similar, but miniature.
我们在这里发现了我的幼年霸王龙。
We found our baby T Rex here.
几十年来，一直存在争论，科学家们意见不一，直到卡罗来纳的一支团队重新审视了我。
For decades, there were arguments and scientists did not agree until a team from Carolina took another look at me.
他们公布了这里化石的详细测量数据，供所有人查看，因此我现在拥有了自己独立的暴龙分类。
They published careful measures of a fossil here for all to see, so now I get my very own Tyrannosaur taxonomy.
他们的测量非常全面，对每一块骨头都进行了分析，通过生长环计数发现我几乎已经完全长大。
Their measurements were thorough with analysis of every bone, and counting rings of growth revealed that I was nearly fully grown.
因此，这项研究改变了你们认为早已熟知的大量数据。
And so this study changes lots of data that you thought were known.
我不是一只幼年霸王龙，而是一个独立的物种。
I'm not a baby T Rex, but a species of my very own.
我不是一只幼年霸王龙，而是一个独立的物种。我不是一只幼年霸王龙，而是一个独立的物种。
I'm not a baby T Rex, but a species of my very I'm not a baby T Rex, but a species of my very own.
我不是幼年暴龙，而是一个独立的物种
I'm not a baby T a species of my very
我的牙齿数量比霸王龙在咆哮时的还要多，我的手臂比蜥蜴之王那微小的爪子还要长。
My teeth are many more in number than T Rex has in its roar, and my arms are longer than the king of lizards tiny claw.
在捕猎方面，我短小、凶猛，属于暴龙类恐龙。
It's short in matters predatory, Pretaceous and dinosaur.
我是微型暴龙的完美典范。
I am the very model of a miniature tyrannosaur.
短小而大型的捕食者，属于暴龙类恐龙。
Short and large predatory, Predeceus and dinosaur.
我是微型暴龙的完美典范
I am the very model of a miniature
《我是微型暴龙的完美典范》由卢克·托马斯演唱。
was I am the very model of a miniature tyrannosaur performed by Luke Thomas.
伴唱由凯莉·卢坎、迈克尔·布鲁姆、马里奥·萨彻韦尔、罗谢尔·沙姆、亚当·皮克尔斯、凯蒂·罗珀、詹姆斯·哈维以及大自然的化身卡特琳娜·克拉克提供。
With backing vocals by Kelly Lukan, Michael Broome, Mario Satchwell, Rochelle Sharm, Adam Pickles, Katie Roper, James Harvey, and nature's own Katrina Clark.
这首歌由丹·福克斯创作，剪辑由我和夏尔米尼·邦德尔完成。
That song was written by Dan Fox with editing by myself and Sharmini Bundell.
音乐由菲尔·杰克逊演奏，音效混音由乔纳森·阿米蒂奇负责。
And the music was performed by Phil Jackson with sound mixing by Jonathan Armitage.
接下来，是时候进入竞争环节了，今年的节日问答由夏尔米尼·邦德尔主持。
Next up, it's time to get competitive as it's the festive quiz this year hosted by Sharmini Bundell.
大家好，欢迎来到年度年末自然播客问答，我是主持人夏尔米尼·邦德尔。
Hello, and welcome to the annual end of year nature podcast quiz with me, your host, Sharmini Bundell.
去年我错过了比赛，今年我回来了，为观众带来他们真正想要的东西——尼克·彼得里乔——一个完全基于氛围的计分系统，我认为这才是举办节日问答的唯一真正方式。
After I missed last year's competition, I'm back to provide the people with what they really want, Nick Petrichow, which is an entirely vibe based point system, which is the only real way, I think, we can all agree to run a festive quiz.
我强烈反对，但请继续。
I hard disagree, but go on.
去年的冠军丹·福克斯，已被禁止参加2025年的比赛。
Well, last year's winner, Dan Fox, he's been banned from competing in 2025.
因此，今年没有卫冕冠军。
So there is no defending champion.
一切都尚未定局。
It's everything to play for.
我身边有三位参赛者，准备测试他们对今年科学新闻的了解。
I have with me here three wannabes ready to test their knowledge of this year's science news.
让我向大家介绍本杰明·汤普森、尼克·佩特里乔和安妮·玛丽·康内利。
May I introduce you all to Benjamin Thompson, Nick Petrichow, and Anne Marie Connelly.
哇哦！
Woo hoo.
太好了。
Great.
嘿。
Hey.
各位参赛者，今天你们感觉有多自信？
How confident are we feeling today, competitors?
我非常自信。
I am very confident.
我觉得我有把握拿下 vibe 分。
I I feel like I have the vibe to take the vibes points.
哦，好大的口气。
Oh, bold words.
拥有 vibe。
Have the vibe.
我非常期待我的第一次测验。
I am excited for my first quiz.
是的。
Yes.
第一次测验。
First quiz.
我希望你们能融入我的 vibe 基础得分系统。
I hope you get in the vibes on my vibes base point system.
今年我为你们准备了一系列问题，全部基于 2025 年的播客和视频标题。
I have a selection of questions for you this year, and they're all based on twenty twenty five's podcast and video headlines.
哦。
Oh.
主题是关于不同故事之间的联系，这是一个完全原创的概念，我称之为连接组织。
And the theme is all about the connections between different stories, an entirely original concept, which I have named connective tissue.
哦。
Oh.
给它加上一点科学感。
To give it that sciency twist.
我会要求你们在每种情况下解开不同事物之间的连接组织。
I'll be asking you to untangle the connective tissue in each case between between different things.
我会说，你们可以自由地合作。
And I will say, you are free to work together.
哦。
Oh.
这是生命的季节。
It's the season of life.
为什么我们会
Why would
这么做呢？
we do that?
是啊。
Yeah.
合作。
Cooperation.
我们怎么
How do we
选出胜者？
get a winner?
嗯，最终只会有一个胜者。
Well, there will be only one one winner ultimately.
所以你们想合作到什么程度，由你们自己决定。
So up to you how much you want to work together.
那么，我们马上进入第一个问题。
So we're gonna dive in with our very first question.
我问你们，这四种动物之间的共同点是什么？
I'm gonna ask you, what is the connective tissue between these four animals?
哦，好的。
Oh, okay.
一只霸王龙、一只黄蜂、一只恐狼和一只鸭子。
A T Rex, a wasp, a dire wolf, and a duck.
这有点像记忆力测试，因为今年我们讲过关于霸王龙、黄蜂、恐狼和鸭子的故事。
So this is a bit of a memory test because we have had stories this year about a t re T rexes, wasps, direwolves, ducks.
所以你们需要一定程度地回忆起那些故事的内容。
So it will require you to some extent to remember what those stories were.
霸王龙那个故事挺有趣的，讲的是一只小恐龙，它其实不是霸王龙，但很多人以为它是幼年霸王龙。
So the T rex, that was a fun story about the little dinosaur, which wasn't a T Rex, but a lot of people thought it was a baby T Rex.
其他的我记不起来了。
The other ones, I can't remember.
有人记得吗
Anyone remember
关于恐狼的故事？
the direwolf story?
恐狼是一家公司
Direwolf was a company
叫做
called
Colossal，他们正在让恐狼从灭绝中复活。
Colossal that are bringing the direwolf back from extinction.
我认为他们今年早些时候还复活了毛茸茸的小鼠。
I think they did a woolly mouse as well earlier in the year.
鸭子。
The duck.
尼克知道关于鸭子的事。
Nick knows about the duck.
是的。
Yeah.
我记得做过关于鸭子的，主要是因为一些研究人员把一只橡胶鸭子粘在石头上，这立刻引起了关注，我想报道这个，因为确实有研究人员这么做了。
I remember doing the duck because mostly because some researchers stuck a rubber duck to a rock, and that was instant, yes, I want to cover this because some researchers did that.
但我没看出这其中的联系。
I'm failing to see the connection though.
除非只是泛指动物，但你说过动物是主题。
Unless it's just animals, but you said animals was the topic.
对于动物，稍微具体一点。
Slightly more specifically for the animals.
哦，黄蜂。
Oh, wasps.
黄蜂和黄蜂拟态生物。
Wasps and wasp mimics.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
模仿者需要多逼真才能骗过鸟类。
That how good a mimic needs to be to fool a bird.
他们是怎么测试的？
And how did they test it?
他们打印了三种不同食蚜蝇模仿者的仿制品。
They printed three d mimic copies of these different hoverfly mimics.
在鸭子的故事里，他们用的是真正的橡胶鸭。
In the duck story, they used an actual rubber duck.
没错。
Yep.
关于霸王龙的故事，他们 presumably 使用或制作了一个模型。
The T Rex story, presumably, they had or made a model based on
本，你这里的角度有点不对。
You're not quite a wrong angle here, Ben.
我们有一些3D打印的黄蜂。
We have some three d printed wasps.
我们有一个橡胶鸭子。
We have a rubber duck.
我们有一个他们以为是霸王龙但实际上不是的东西。
We have what they thought was a T Rex, but wasn't.
那些并不完全是其本身的东西。
Things that aren't quite the thing.
哦。
Oh.
这是正确的。
That is correct.
那些不是真实存在的动物，或者不是它们声称的那种动物。
Animals that either aren't real or aren't the animal that they're claimed to be.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yes.
很多人说，恐狼其实并不是真正的恐狼，因为它是一种经过基因改造的狼，只是对基因做了一些微调，使其具备了一些恐狼的特征。
A lot of people said the direwolf is not really a direwolf because it's like a re engineered wolf with slightly different, like tweaks to the genes to give it some of the traits of a direwolf.
它真的是恐狼吗？
Is it in fact a direwolf?
而这个橡胶鸭子不仅仅只是
And the rubber duck is not just
一个塑料鸭子，就像我们3D打印的三只黄蜂一样。
a plastic duck, as were our three d printed wasps.
我认为安妮·玛丽那里其实是一组基于氛围的点，这完全是团队合作的结果。
I think that's a bundle of vibe based points for Anne Marie there, it It was teamwork.
确实有团队合作。
There was teamwork.
我们现在有几个问题，关于混合标题。
We've got a couple of questions now, which hybrid headlines.
我已经浏览了播客和视频的标题，并将其中三个合并在一起。
So I have gone through podcast and video headlines, and I have merged three of them together.
所以我要给你们一个由三个独立标题组合而成的标题。
So I'm gonna give you a headline that is made out of three separate headlines.
我要问你们原来的标题是什么。
I'm gonna ask you what the original was.
所以是三个独立的故事吗？
So three separate stories?
三个独立的故事，三个独立的标题。
Three separate stories, three separate headlines.
我从这些标题中提取了词语。
I've taken the words from those headlines.
太棒了。
Great.
然后我把它们拼凑在一起。
And I've clobbered them together.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
这简直就是个弗兰肯斯坦式的标题。
That's some sort of Frankenstein headline.
所以我们第一个是：水镊子将这个大脑变成了原子级薄片。
So our first one is, aqua tweezers turned this brain atomically thin.
我记得好像跟铁砧有关，是微小的蓝宝石铁砧吗？
I remember something about anvils, like tiny sapphire anvils, was it?
就像挤压某物使其变薄？
Like squeezing something thin?
没错。
That is correct.
把金属挤压成二维的。
Squeezing metals to be two d.
我认为那个大脑是维苏威火山喷发后把大脑变成了玻璃。
I think the brain was the Vesuvian eruption turned a brain into glass.
完全正确。
Absolutely correct.
你把大脑转化了。
You've got turned this brain.
那确实是维苏威火山把大脑变成玻璃的故事。
That was indeed the Vesuvius brain to glass story.
我们得到了原子级薄的材料。
We've got atomically thin.
那确实是蓝宝石砧板将金属挤压成原子级薄的过程。
That was indeed sapphire anvils squeeze metals atomically thin.
但那水镊子呢？
But what about the aqua tweezers?
我
I
这段视频是由现任冠军丹制作的。
this was a video produced by the reigning champion, Dan.
我不记得这个故事具体是什么了。
I can't remember what the story actually was.
好像是关于水镊子的什么事儿。
It was something aqua tweezers.
它们是移动原子之类的吗？
Did they move atoms or something like that?
这个我来告诉你。
This is I'm gonna tell you.
这是水镊子利用水波操控粒子的技术。
This was aquatweasers manipulate particles with water waves.
这确实是丹的作品之一，讲的是科学家如何用波来控制事物。
It is indeed one of Dan's And it's about how scientists use waves to control things.
我们有光学镊子，利用光波来捕获和操控物体。
We have optical tweezers using waves of light to trap and manipulate things.
他们还用声波来控制粒子。
They've got sound waves using to control particles.
但这是用水波来控制粒子，依赖于不同波之间的干涉。
But this was using water waves to control particles, depending on the interference between the different waves.
哦，
Oh,
我有点
I kind of
忘了。
forgot that.
是的。
Yeah.
大致上。
Roughly.
嗯，你确实提到过
Well, you did say something about
关于移动原子，我想。
about Moving atoms, I think.
不太对。
Not quite right.
不过我想强调一下这一点。
I would like the point though.
就是氛围，沙曼尼。
It's vibes, Shammany.
氛围。
Vibes.
氛围。
Vibes.
氛围。
Vibes.
我有这氛围吗？
Do I have the vibes?
就是氛围。
It is vibes.
你有那种氛围吗？
Do you have the vibes?
嗯，我们其他人一点氛围都没有。
Well, the rest of us didn't have any vibes.
我给你半分。
I'm gonna give you half a point
就为了这个。
for that.
你默认赢了。
You win by default.
哦，进入一个艰难的领域了。
Oh, into a hard territory.
好吧。
Okay.
行了。
Alright.
好吧。
Alrighty.
我这儿还有一个混合标题给你。
I've got another hybrid headline for you here.
嗯。
Mhmm.
好的。
Okay.
古代病毒DNA赋予机器人柔软的红外视觉。
Ancient viral DNA gives robots a soft infrared vision.
我有第一个。
I've got the first one.
我觉得我有中间那个。
I think I have the middle one.
我觉得
I think
我也有中间那个。
I have the middle one as well.
给机器人赋予柔软触感是原始故事，我记得是因为它很新，是尼克关于一个手指像海绵一样的机器人的视频。
Giving robots a soft touch is the original story, and I remember it because it's quite recent, and it was one of Nick's videos about this robot that has, like, spongy fingers.
你就是这样描述的。
That's how you describe it.
它的手指上有许多微小的——也许我该让你来描述一下。
It has fingers with, like, little tiny maybe I should let you describe it.
对。
Yeah.
它们的末端有微小的磁性纤维，可以通过磁场按需变硬，能够用它来抓取各种东西，包括薯片（美国人叫土豆片），甚至能抓一条蠕虫，那段视频有点奇怪，但还是去看看吧。
They have little tiny magnetic fibers at the end that can stiffen on demand using magnetic fields, and they can use that to pick up all sorts of things, including crisps, potato chips for Americans, and even a worm, which was a bit of an odd clip, but go see the video for that.
很酷的视频。
Cool video.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这就是
So so that's the
中间的，对。
middle Correct.
你让机器人有了柔软的触感。
You've got gives robots a soft.
确实如此。
That was indeed.
SmartFabric 让机器人有了柔软的触感。
SmartFabric gives robots a soft touch.
好的。
Okay.
第一个是古老的病毒DNA。
And the first one is ancient viral DNA.
这指的是人类基因组中那些非常古老的病毒DNA序列，它们在胚胎发育中似乎扮演着重要角色，至少在实验室的胚胎类比实验中是如此。
So that's about these very old sequences of what once was viral DNA inside human genomes, which seems to be an important role in embryo development, at least in analogs to embryos in lab experiments.
完全正确。
That's exactly right.
古代病毒DNA有助于人类胚胎发育，这就是那条标题的核心内容。
Ancient viral DNA helps human embryos develop, was the headline there.
好的。
Okay.
这就只剩下混合标题的最后部分了——红外视觉。
Which just leaves the very end of the hybrid headline, infrared vision.
哦。
Oh.
哦。
Oh.
哦。
Oh.
哦。
Oh.
我记得这个，因为我觉得我帮忙拍了这个片段，那是Lizzie在谈论它。
I remember this one because I think I helped film it because it was Lizzie talking about it.
Lizzie Gibney，她经常出现在这个播客中。
Lizzie Gibney who often appears on the podcast.
而且是关于那种能让你
And it was about the contact lenses that give you
红外线啊，好的。
infrared Ah, okay.
这些隐形眼镜让人拥有红外线视觉。
These contact lenses give humans infrared vision.
非常酷的故事。
Very cool story.
那真是太酷了。
That was super cool.
好了，这就是我们的混合标题部分。
Well, that was our hybrid headline section.
展开剩余字幕（还有 331 条）
我们这里还有一个关于结缔组织的问题。
We've got another connective tissue based question here.
哦，这个有点难。
This oh, this is a tricky one.
哦。
Oh.
我是不是把这个测验出得太难了？
Have I made this quiz too hard?
不是。
No.
是你错了。
It's you who are wrong.
我们来看看。
Let's see.
我们来看看。
Let's see.
这四个故事，再次从播客和视频中，有什么共同点呢？
What connects these four stories, again, from pod and video?
这些故事讲的是玻利维亚一个极其平坦的盐湖。
The stories were about an extremely flat salt lake in Bolivia.
哦。
Oh.
一种新型起搏器、海底六英里下的生态系统，以及巴西的一个蚊子工厂。
A new kind of pacemaker, an ecosystem six miles below the surface of the sea, and a mosquito factory in Brazil.
我要说，安妮·玛丽，你帮我们处理了所有的标题。
And I will say that, Anne Marie, you help us with all our headlines.
是的。
Yes.
在这种情况下，标题对于建立联系非常重要。
Headlines are very important for getting the connection in this case.
这确实很
That really is
我的观点。
my point.
我觉得它们是不是都是最高级的？
I think they might be are they all like superlatives?
所以海洋是最深的什么什么生态系统。
So the ocean was the deepest ever something something Ecosystem.
生态系统。
Ecosystem.
没错。
Yep.
最深的生态系统。
The deepest ever ecosystem.
那是盐湖。
It was the salt lakes.
我不太确定最高级是什么。
I'm not entirely sure what's the superlative.
这是有史以来最大的镜子吗？
Is it the biggest ever mirror?
完全正确。
Absolutely correct.
我写了所有这些标题。
I did write all these headlines.
另外两个是什么？
What were the other two?
一种新型起搏器和一个蚊子工厂
A new kind of pacemaker and a mosquito factory
在巴西。
in Brazil.
蚊子工厂是有史以来最大的蚊子工厂，它们培育的蚊子不会传播这些病毒，以此来对抗巴西的蚊媒病毒。
Mosquito factory is the biggest ever mosquito factory, and they're breeding mosquitoes to kind of counteract mosquito based viruses because they're mosquitoes that won't spread these viruses in Brazil.
我们的一名记者曾前往这家蚊子工厂。
And that one of our reporters went to the mosquito factory.
至于起搏器，我不清楚。
And the pacemaker, I don't know.
它是最小的吗？
Is it the smallest?
最小的。
Smallest.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我赢了。
I win.
还有我。
And me.
我赢了这一轮。
I win that round.
你只是。
You just.
哇。
Wow.
哦，做得真棒。
Oh, that was well done.
对不起，玛丽。
Sorry, Marie.
没让你看一下。
For not giving you a look at it.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
它们各自的标题是：这真的是世界上最大的镜子吗？
The actual headlines for each of them were, is this really the world's largest mirror?
世界上最小的起搏器能彻底改变心脏手术吗？
World's tiniest pacemaker could revolutionize heart surgery?
科学家在海面下六英里处发现了地球最深的生态系统，自然频道探访了世界上最大的蚊子工厂。
Earth's deepest ecosystem discovered six miles below the sea, and nature goes inside the world's largest mosquito factory.
这是最新动态。
Here's the buzz.
哦，
Oh,
是个新闻。
was a news.
那是
That was
一个好标题。
a good headline.
但那里有数百万只蚊子之类的。
But there were so many there's a millions mosquitoes or something.
如果你看视频，我们做了一个关于这个故事的视频。
If you watch the video, we did a video on on a story.
有数百万个卵，然后它们把这些卵放进小盒子寄给人们，让他们可以在自己的地区释放。
There's millions of eggs, and then they put them in these little boxes and post them out to people so that they can release them in their own areas.
我们还有一个基于头条的问题要问。
We've got one more headline based question to go.
这个问题稍微宽泛一点。
Is a little bit of a broader one.
好的。
Okay.
所以我重新回顾了我们今年的往期内容，注意到有两期播客故事的标题包含了电影彩蛋。
So I've been going back over our back catalog for the year, and I noticed there were two pod stories whose headlines contained a film reference.
你能说出它们吗？
Can you name them?
哦。
Oh.
我喜欢偷偷加入电影彩蛋，但是
I love sneaking film references in, but
我觉得经常如此。
I think so often.
也许还有更多，但我没注意到。
Maybe there were more, and I didn't I didn't spot them,
但我注意到了两个。
but I noticed two.
是电影，不是电视剧，因为我们肯定有一个标题里有‘塔迪斯’。
Film specifically, not TV, because we definitely have a headline with Tardis in it.
但塔迪斯
But Tardis
是诺贝尔奖的。
Of the nobels.
《神秘博士》。
Doctor who.
我们讨论过
We talked about
塔迪斯。
the Tardis.
主要是电影。
Film specifically.
我们能再多给点线索吗？
Can we have more of a clue?
我每个都有线索。
I've got a clue for each of them.
好的。
Okay.
所以你的第一个电影参考标题是约瑟夫·康拉德的《黑暗之心》。
So your first movie reference headline is Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad.
哦，等一下。
Oh, hang on.
显然，这部作品的电影版是《现代启示录》。
Obviously, the film version of that is Apocalypse Now.
所以
So
显然。
Obviously.
人人都知道。
Everyone knew that.
我记得我不记得那个标题了，但我记得丹当时得意洋洋的样子，当他
I remember I don't remember the headline, but I remember Dan being so pleased with himself when he
然后呢？
Then?
想出
Came up with
《现代启示录》。
Apocalypse.
是的。
Yes.
它讲的是它的历史，那个书展。
It was about the history of it was the book show.
关于灾难和末日的历史。
The history of cataclysm Cataclysm.
以及世界各地的末日事件如何以某种出人意料的方式影响了人类社会。
And apocalypses around the world and how they affected human society, maybe in ways that were kind of unexpected.
是的。
Yeah.
那是一场非常有趣的对话。
Was a fascinating chat, one.
是的。
Yeah.
而且也很有趣，因为我们正担心气候变化。
And also, it was interesting because we're worried about climate change.
如果这真是人们所说的末日时代，
If this is an apocalyptic time, as people
人们常常喜欢说
are often fond of fond
常说的，从过去的末日事件中我们能学到什么？
of saying, what can we learn from looking at the apocalypses of the past?
没错。
That's right.
莉齐·韦德，一位科学作家，写道：
Lizzie Wade, science writer, wrote that
一。
one.
这真是个很棒的标题。
That was a great headline.
所以标题是：《过去的末日：灾难如何塑造了人类社会》。
So the headline was, apocalypse then, how cataclysms shaped human societies.
这真是个好标题。
It's a great one.
给安妮·玛丽和本点了个赞。
Got points for Anne Marie and Ben there.
我还有一个关于第二部电影式标题的线索。
And the second clue I've got for a second movie based headline.
线索是里克·莫拉尼斯。
The clue is Rick Moranis.
《捉鬼敢死队》。
Ghostbusters.
不是。
No.
《小魔怪》。
Honey, I Shrunk the Kids
哦，对了。
Oh, yes.
将会是其中之一。
Is gonna be one
我们做过一个玩梗《小魔怪》的标题。
We did a headline that was a play on Honey, I Shrunk the Kids.
但那到底是什么？
But what was it?
亲爱的，我吃掉了孩子们。
Honey, I Ate the Kids.
亲爱的，我吃掉了那个孩子。
Honey, I Ate the Kid.
我正要
I was about to
说出来。
say it.
好吧。
Okay.
我想，我觉得你们可能都因为这个得分了。
You I think I think possibly you all get points for that.
那是一次美妙的协作努力。
That was that was a beautiful collaborative effort.
确实如此。
It was indeed.
标题是《亲爱的，我吃了孩子》，讲述饥饿与荷尔蒙如何使小鼠变得具有攻击性。
The headline was Honey I ate the kids, how hunger and hormones make mice aggressive.
是的。
Yeah.
但我们需要对这个标题加以说明：研究人员并没有让小鼠吃掉它们的孩子。
But we have we have to qualify with this headline that the researchers didn't let the mice eat their children.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
他们对小鼠的大脑进行了测量，发现这些小鼠确实有这种欲望。
They did measurements of their brains that showed that these mice wanted to.
它们把幼崽视为食物，并对它们表现出攻击性。
They saw the pups as food, and they were aggressive towards them.
他们试图攻击幼鼠，但研究人员没有让事情发展到那一步。
They tried to attack them, but the researchers didn't let it go that far.
但没错，这涉及到神经科学，研究饥饿和荷尔蒙如何共同作用，导致小鼠产生攻击性反应。
But, yeah, it was about the neuroscience of how it is that hunger and hormones can combine to lead to an aggressive response in mice.
好了，借此我将结束今年的节日问答环节。
Well, with that, I will bring this year's festive quiz to an end.
我认为我们都能认可这种基于氛围的计分系统，它让安妮·玛丽成为无可争议的赢家。
And I think we can all appreciate the success of the vibes based point system, which sees Anne Marie as the indisputable winner.
我觉得即使不是基于 Bibes 的，可能也会选中这一项。
I think even if it wasn't the Bibes based, it might have taken that one.
这是基于标题的。
It was headline based.
你知道，这有帮助。
You know it helped.
非常基于标题。
Very headline based.
如果你对我们讨论的任何故事感兴趣，并想重温2025年一些令人兴奋的科学成果，我们会在节目笔记中附上相关链接，方便你去查看。
If you're interested in any of the stories that we've discussed and you wanna refresh your memory on some of the exciting science from 2025, we will stick links to those in the show notes so you can go check them out.
但感谢大家今年的参与。
But thank you all for joining me this year.
也要感谢丹·福克斯，他或许会考虑在明年解除对他的禁令。
Thanks also to Dan Fox, who will consider lifting his ban for next year.
而且我
And I
希望你们喜欢这个问答环节，我们2026年再见。
hope you've enjoyed the quiz, and we will see you all in 2026.
期待着
Looking forward
那一天。
to it.
谢谢。
Thank you.
可以说，安妮·玛丽在这场较量中彻底击败了我们。
Think it's fair to say that Anne Marie absolutely destroyed us there.
但各位听众，我觉得在很多方面，尼克，你和我才是道德上的赢家。
But listeners, I feel that in many ways, Nick, you and I are the moral vixes.
我觉得多年来我一直是道德上的赢家，却从未真正赢过。
I think I've been the moral victor for many years now and never actually the victor.
所以，好吧。
So sure.
能得到什么我就接受什么。
I'll take what I can get.
但现在，我觉得是时候唱一首我们节日的歌曲了。
But now, I think it's time for one of our festive songs.
这首歌遵循了更传统的风格，但加入了科学故事的元素。
This one is on a more traditional line, but with a science story twist.
它关于我们刚才在问答环节中讨论的内容。
It's about something we were just talking about in the quiz.
研究人员用一种新设计的超强粘性水凝胶将一只橡胶鸭子粘在了石头上。
The researchers who stuck a rubber duck to a rock using a newly designed super sticky hydrogel.
所以接下来这首歌是根据《听啊，天使高声唱》的曲调，演唱关于这种水凝胶的粘性故事。
So this next song is hard the hydrogel is stuck to the tune of Hark the Herald Angels Sing.
请欣赏。
Enjoy.
这首《水凝胶粘住了》由《自然》杂志的卡特琳娜·克拉克与卢克·托马斯、凯莉·卢坎、迈克尔·布鲁姆、马里奥·萨奇韦尔、罗谢尔·沙姆、亚当·皮克尔斯和凯蒂·罗珀共同演绎。
That was Hard the Hydrogel is Stuck performed by Nature's own Katrina Clark with Luke Thomas, Kelly Lukan, Michael Broome, Mario Satchwell, Rochelle Sharm, Adam Pickles, and Katie Roper.
这首歌由我创作，沙姆利·邦德尔负责编辑，音乐由詹姆斯·哈维演奏，音效混音由乔纳森·阿米蒂奇完成。
That song was written by me with editing by Sharmley Bundell, and the music was performed by James Harvey with sound mixing by Jonathan Armitage.
最后，本周到了反思过去十二个月科学界发展的时候了，我们将借助《自然》十大人物——《自然》年度评选的对科学产生重要影响的人物——来回顾。
Finally, this week, it's time to do some reflecting on what the past twelve months have looked like for science, and we do that with the help of Nature's 10, which is Nature's annual list of folk who have helped to shape science.
今天邀请到《自然》杂志的特稿编辑布伦丹·马赫与我一同讨论他们。
Joining me to talk about them is Brendan Maher, a features editor here at Nature.
布伦丹，非常感谢你来到这里。
Brendan, thank you so much for being here.
哦，谢谢你邀请我，本。
Oh, thank you for having me, Ben.
非常荣幸。
It's an absolute pleasure.
你是今年推动《自然》十大人物评选的人之一。
You're And one of the folk driving Nature's 10 this year.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，我们试图回顾科学与社会这一年的亮点，以及那些通过他们的工作或经历充分体现当年状况的人。
You know, we try to look at the year of highlights for science and science and society and people that just sort of exemplify what was going on, you know, either through their work or through their experiences.
我认为我们捕捉到了一些发生过的伟大事情，也涵盖了一些可能不太理想的事情。
And I think we caught a good range of some of the great things that have happened and some of the maybe not so great things that have happened.
我们只是通过那些亲身经历和参与这些事件的人来讲述这些故事。
And we just kinda talk about those events through the people that, you know, lived them and did them.
那我们来聊聊其中几位吧。
Well, let's talk about a few of them then.
让我们从海面下九公里处开始，如果你是儒勒·凡尔纳的粉丝，那就是大约1.6里格。
Let's start nine kilometers below the surface of the ocean or about 1.6 leagues if you're a Jules Verne fan.
这位是来自中国科学院的杜梦ren。
And this is Mengren Du from the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
对。
Right.
她乘坐深潜器，发现了有记录以来最深的动物生态系统。
So she was in a submersible and discovered, you know, the deepest known animal ecosystem ever recorded.
当她身处海底时，
And while she was down there,
她发现了多种全新的物种。
she discovered a variety of brand new species.
我们在播客中报道了这个故事，这篇论文中的图片非常令人震撼。
We cover this story on the podcast, and the images from this paper, they're quite haunting.
对吧？
Right?
因为在这片深海底部，你看到的是一片荒芜的海床，却突然冒出一些零星的生命群落。
Because you have this sort of barren sea floor all this way down, and then these little patches of things sprouting out.
对吧？
Right?
这些生物的种类相当多样。
And this is quite a diverse group of different organisms.
是的。
Yeah.
有非常多不同的物种。
A whole bunch of different species.
这里的动物依靠化能合成细菌生存，这些细菌利用从海底渗出的甲烷和硫化氢产生能量。
The animals down here, they live off of chemosynthetic bacteria that make energy from methane and hydrogen sulfide seeping out of the seafloor.
这与我们通常想到的海底热液喷口有些不同，而这里的深度要深得多。
It's kinda different from the hydrothermal vents that we, you know, often think about at the bottom of the seafloor, and this one's a lot deeper.
天啊，我无法想象，乘坐一艘小小的潜水器，只和少数几个人一起，深入如此之深，需要多大的勇气。
And, gosh, I can't imagine the sort of bravery it takes getting into a little submersible with just a few other people and going so deep down.
这一定是一次非凡的体验。
It must be just an amazing experience.
我不怕幽闭恐惧，但我知道这艘潜艇大约宽1.8米，本质上就是一个能容纳三人的钛合金罐子。
I'm not claustrophobic, but, I know this submarine is, what, 1.8 meters across, and it is essentially a three person titanium can.
她对这次探险却表现得相当随意。
And she's quite offhand about this endeavor.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Yeah.
她完全不害怕，而我希望自己也能像她这样无所畏惧。
She's not afraid at all, which I wish I could say the same for myself.
显然，这一发现引起了大量关注
And, obviously, this finding got quite a lot
报道。
of coverage.
对吧？
Right?
我们非常关注海洋最深处，而人们对那里知之甚少。
We're very interested in the very depths of the ocean, which people don't know a huge amount about.
你认为这项研究能让我们更深入了解那里正在发生什么吗？
Does this research give any more insight into what's going on down there, do think?
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗，研究人员曾经认为，除了可能漂浮下来的死鲸鱼，为短暂的生态系统提供养分外，这里根本不可能有生命存活。
You know, researchers once thought that there was nothing that could keep life surviving down here except maybe dead whales floating down and feeding a a sort of short lived ecosystem while the whale decomposes.
但生命存在的方式其实多种多样。
But there's just lots of different ways for life to exist.
它总能找到生存的办法。
It always seems to find a way.
对。
Right.
俗话说得好。
As the old saying goes.
好了，让我们转向下一位我们要讨论的人物，她是苏珊·梅纳雷斯，曾短暂担任美国疾病控制与预防中心主任。
Well, let's move on to the second person we're going to talk about, and that's Susan Menares, who was briefly director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
也就是我们常说的CDC。
That's the CDC to you and I.
她为什么入选今年的名单？
Why has she made this year's list?
她的故事是怎样的？
What's her story?
没错。
Right.
她是由特朗普总统任命为CDC主任的，而正如我们所知，CDC在特朗普政府期间一直是一个饱受争议的机构。
Well, she was appointed by president Trump to head the CDC, which, as we know, has been somewhat embattled organization during the course of the Trump administration.
当她被任命时，许多人长舒了一口气，心想：这下好了，我们终于有一位合格的科学家、一位拥有二十年政府和科学领域经验的人来领导这个机构了。
And when she was named, there was kind of a big sigh of relief from a lot of people thinking, you know, now we've got a qualified scientist, someone who has, like, twenty years experience working in science and the government who's gonna be helming this organization.
但不到一个月，她就被RFK Jr.解雇了。
And, less than a month in, she was fired by RFK Junior.
对。
Right.
所以，她的任期几乎可以用天来计算了。
So it really was a matter of you can almost count it in terms of days then.
那后来发生了什么？
And what happened?
是什么导致了她职位的突然终结？
What led to this abrupt ending of her position then?
她在九月的一次国会听证会上作证，称自己是因为坚持科学诚信而被解职的。
So she testified in a congressional hearing in September that it was for holding the line on scientific integrity.
她说，RFK Jr.曾命令她解雇该机构的一些顶尖科学家，并批准她从未见过的疫苗建议。
She said that RFK junior had instructed her to fire some of the top scientists at the agency and to approve vaccine recommendations that she hadn't even seen.
RFK对此说法予以否认，并称她曾告诉他，自己不可信。
RFK would refute that particular account, and he said that she had told him that she was untrustworthy.
这还引发了一系列连锁反应。
And there was a domino effect to this as well.
对吧？
Right?
还有好几个人也跟着她离开了。
Several other folk followed her as well.
在她被解雇后不久离开的人中，包括黛博拉·霍里和另外三位高级疾控中心科学家。
Among the people that left shortly after she was fired, we had Deborah Horrie and three other senior CDC scientists.
现在，霍里也在国会听证会上作证，称肯尼迪及其团队根本没有就关键决策咨询疾控中心的科学家，尤其是今年五月一项重大决定，将限制儿童和孕妇获取新冠疫苗的途径。
Now Horrie, she also testified on Capitol Hill and said that Kennedy and his team had really not been consulting the CDC scientists on key decisions, including this was a big decision in May that was going to limit access to COVID nineteen vaccines for children and pregnant people.
这正好触及了人们在RFK Jr.执掌卫生与公众服务部时对他的议程的诸多预期。
So this is right at the heart of what a lot of people expected RFK junior's agenda to be when he took the helm at the Health and Human Services.
而这一切的发展，恰恰印证了我们最坏的预期：他会限制疫苗获取、淡化疫苗的有效性，并夸大他所认为的疫苗风险和危害。
And it's all kind of played out kind of according to our worst expectations that he's going to limit access to vaccines and downplay their effectiveness and play up what he perceives as their dangers and their risks.
正如你所说，这一年对疾控中心来说真是跌宕起伏。
As you say, it's been quite the year for the CDC.
我们在播客中已经多次讨论过这一点。
We've covered that several times on the podcast.
尽管马纳雷斯在任职初期就被解职，但她对这个机构有何期望呢？
Does Manares give a sense of what she's hoping for the agency even though she was removed so quickly into her tenure?
嗯，她和许多其他人报告说，那里的士气已经跌至历史最低点。
Well, she and many others had reported that the morale there is just at an all time low.
他们得不到政府的支持，而且最近CDC还发生了一起枪击事件。
They don't have support from the government, and there had just recently been a shooting at the CDC.
那是一名对新冠疫苗感到不满的人，声称疫苗让人生病。
It was a a person who was upset about the COVID nineteen vaccine saying that it was making people sick.
在那起枪击事件中，有一名警察丧生。
And there was a police officer killed during that shooting.
所有这些其实都可以追溯到RFK Jr.和其他人长期以来对这个机构的诋毁。
And, you know, all of this really traces back to the words of of RFK junior and and and others who have been maligning this organization for a long time.
很难强调CDC对本国乃至全球维护公共卫生、建立公共卫生地位所起到的重要作用。
It's kinda hard to stress how important the CDC has been both for this country and globally at maintaining public health and making a place for public health.
这是一个非常艰难的处境，因为在疾控中心，当你把工作做对时，没人会注意到。
It's a really hard position to be in because at the CDC, when you're doing your job right, nobody notices.
对吧？
Right?
但任何错误都会被放大，因为你谈论的是人们的健康。
But, any mistake always gets amplified because you're talking about people's health.
我们继续吧，布伦丹，也许我们可以转向印度，来看看今年《自然》十大人物中的下一位入选者——阿查尔·阿格拉瓦尔。
Let's keep going, Brendan, and maybe let's move to India for our next entrant in this year's Nature's Ten, and that's Achal Agrawal.
告诉我
Tell me a
关于他的事。
bit about him.
所以阿格拉瓦尔是一位应用数学博士，他记得曾与一位非常热情的本科生讨论过一个项目。
So Agrawal, he's a PhD in applied mathematics, and he remembers talking with a very enthusiastic undergraduate about a project.
这名学生有一个很棒的想法，认为他可以使用某种软件来描述这个项目，这种软件本质上是抄袭，但会改写已发表作品的措辞，使其看起来像是新写的内容。
And the student had this great idea for moving things forward is that he could formulate a description of this project using some software that basically plagiarizes but changes the phrasing of published work so that it seems like it's newly written.
因此，阿加瓦尔显然对这种情况感到震惊，我认为这在他心中点燃了火花，让他意识到人们竟能如此大胆地涉足剽窃和不端行为。
So Agarwal was obviously horrified at this, and I think it led a spark in him that people could so boldly dip into things like plagiarism and misconduct.
于是他开始认真审视印度科学界正在发生的事情，而观察这一点的一个途径就是通过论文撤稿。
So he started really trying to take stock of what was going on in Indian science, and one place to look at that is through retractions.
他帮助梳理了印度大学中撤稿事件的数量，这产生了重大影响。
So he helped kind of map out how many retractions were happening at Indian universities, and that's made a big impact.
他辞去了大学的职位，创立了‘印度科研观察’，这是一个由科学家和学生组成的在线群体，专门揭露学术诚信问题，包括剽窃和其他类型的出版不端行为。
He resigned from his university post, and he launched this India Research Watch, which is kind of an online group of scientists and students who highlight integrity issues, including plagiarism and, you know, other kinds of publication misconduct.
印度官方已经注意到他的所作所为，并正在改革大学标准，不再仅仅衡量研究人员的发表频率，而是开始关注撤稿的频率。
And Indian officials have really taken notice of what he's doing, and they're actually changing the university standards so that they're not just measuring metrics of how often someone publishes, but they're actually looking at metrics of how often someone retracts.
值得一提的是，并非所有论文撤稿都是由于不端行为。
And it's worth saying not all papers are retracted due to misconduct.
有些撤稿是科学体系自身的一部分。
Some are retracted as part of the scientific enterprise.
也许他的工作更侧重于那些存在可疑情况的论文。
Maybe his work concentrates more on those that have some suspicion attached.
必须指出的是，这给他个人带来了一定的重大代价，但
It has to be said that this has come at some significant cost to him personally, but
他对自己所做的事情坚定不移。
he is resolute in what he's doing.
是的。
Yeah.
因此，阿加瓦尔在找工作时遇到了一些困难，他还面临一家私立大学对印度研究观察组多名成员提起的诉讼。
So Agrawal has had some trouble finding work, and, he's also facing a lawsuit that was filed by a private university against several members of the India Research Watch Group.
我们在报道中引用他的话说，偶尔我会想，也许我该停止做这件事了。
We quote him in our stories saying, you know, once in a while, I I think maybe I should stop doing this.
但他一直坚持下去，并开始为大学举办研讨会，提高人们对这些问题的认识，因为就研究诚信而言，如果你不了解、不关注，就根本无法采取任何行动来应对。
But he's really kept going and begun to run workshops for universities and raise awareness to these issues because with research integrity, you really can't do anything to fight it if you're not aware of it, if you're not looking for it.
好吧，我们继续吧，布伦丹。
Well, let's keep moving, Brendan.
让我们回到美国，介绍下一位人物，托尼·泰森。
Let's move back to The US for our next entrant, and that is Tony Tyson.
我们最初这场对话始于海洋深处，但托尼在观测遥远太空方面发挥了关键作用。
Now we started this chat in the depths of the oceans, but Tony really has played a key role in looking the other way, looking into distant space.
没错。
Right.
今年，位于智利的薇拉·鲁宾天文台正式启用，它将使南天的遥远星系呈现出更清晰的图像。
So the Vera Rubin Observatory in Chile opened this year, and it's gonna be putting distant galaxies in the southern sky in a much sharper focus.
而这很大程度上要归功于托尼·泰森。
And a lot of that is all thanks to Tony Tyson.
他是这个望远镜的构想者，并主导了推动其建成的整个过程。
He's the person who dreamt up this scope, who led the quest to get it built.
这台设备配备了一台巨大的数码相机，我试着回想我第一台数码相机是什么样的。
So this has this, like, huge digital camera, and, I try to think back to the first digital camera I ever had.
你第一台数码相机是什么时候的？
What was the first digital camera you ever had?
你还记得它有多少百万像素吗？
Do you remember how many megapixels it had in it?
我觉得是两百万像素的。
I think one was a two megapixel.
这太令人震惊了。
It was mind blowing.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
每张照片都有32亿像素。
3,200 megapixels in every shot.
好吧。
Alright.
稍微好一点。
Marginally better.
而且它的大小也和一辆小汽车差不多，如果
And the size of a small car as well, if
我记得很清楚。
I remember rightly.
是的。
Yeah.
大小像一辆小汽车。
Size of a small car.
而且，托尼，正如你所说，这确实是推动这台望远镜从最初的设计图纸到最终调试以确保其正常运行的关键因素。
And, Tony, as you say, really was a key driver for this telescope being built from literally the drawing board through to the final adjustments to make sure it was working.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
人们真的对这个天文台寄予了很高的期望。
And people really are pinning some high hopes on this observatory.
它一个有趣的功能是拍摄深空活动的时间推移视频，他们希望利用这种三维方法绘制出宇宙中的暗物质分布。
One of the interesting things it can do is take time lapse video of what's going on in deep space, and they are hoping to map out the dark matter in the universe using this three-dimensional approach.
托尼，当时85岁，是
Tony, at 85 then, is one
入选《自然》十大科学人物的较年长者之一。
of the more senior folk to be included in Nature's 10.
让我们来谈谈今年最年轻的入选者，当然也是我们在评选《自然》十大科学人物期间遇到过的最年轻入选者之一。
Let's talk about the youngest entrants this year, and certainly one of the youngest entrants we've had while doing Nature's 10.
给我介绍一下他们的情况。
Tell me about them.
是的。
Yeah.
我们有
We've got
一个宝宝，KJ·马尔杜恩。
a baby, KJ Muldoon.
他住在费城郊外。
He lives outside of Philadelphia.
他出生时患有名为CPS1缺乏症的遗传病，这种病使得肝脏难以甚至无法处理氨。
He was born with a genetic disorder called CPS one deficiency, which makes it really difficult and possibly impossible to process ammonia in the liver.
因此，氨会在体内积累并毒害器官。
So you have ammonia kind of building up in the system and poisoning organs.
这很严重。
It's bad.
如果不治疗，这是一种致命疾病。
It's a fatal disease if untreated.
肝移植是一种选择，但大约一半患有这种疾病的儿童会因此死亡。
Liver transplant is an option, but roughly half of the kids with this disorder will die from it.
但现在有一种获批准的医疗疗法，使用CRISPR基因编辑技术，这种疗法与众不同且特别，因为它专为KJ设计，而且他们在几个月内就完成了。
But now there is an approved medical therapy that uses CRISPR gene editing, and this one is different and special because it was specifically designed just for KJ, and they did this in a matter of months.
这种生物医学界的奇迹式动员令人难以置信，它展示了未来这种高度个性化基因疗法真正可能实现的前景。
So this kind of miraculous mobilization of the biomedical enterprise was just incredible, and it shows what really could be possible in the future with these super personalized gene therapy approaches.
你说得对。
And you're right.
显然，这篇文章的重点是KGA，但当时有一支庞大的医疗团队、生物医学科学家、生物化学家、伦理学家以及各种专业人士共同为他研发了这种疗法。
Obviously, KGA is the focus of this article, but there was a huge team of medics and biomedical scientists and biochemists and ethicists and all sorts of folk who worked on this treatment for him then.
这确实是一场竞速。
And it really was a race.
必须这么说。
It has to be said.
是的。
Yes.
团队必须全力以赴，有趣的是，那些负责决定是否推进这项治疗的科学家们，特意选择不去见KJ·穆多恩。
The team had to work really hard, and what's kind of interesting is that the team of scientists, the ones who were really making kind of decisions about whether they could go ahead with this or not, they made a point of it not to meet KJ Muldoon.
他们希望确保自己的所有决策都基于数据，基于实验所显示的最佳结果，而不是受到这个可能面临严峻命运的孩子的影响。
They wanted to make sure that any decisions that they made were based on the data and, you know, sort of what the best signal from their experiments was showing rather than being influenced by meeting this child that was potentially facing a very difficult fate.
这个孩子很可爱。
And this kid is cute.
文章中生动地描述他有着灿烂的圆润脸颊笑容。
Described beautifully in the article as having a megawatt chubby cheeked smile.
当团队开始研究这个问题时，他们预测可能需要十八个月才能完成，这对于一次仅针对单个患者的临床试验来说已经是极快的进度了。
And the team, when they started investigating this, they predicted maybe they could do it in eighteen months, which is a really fast turnaround for essentially a clinical trial of one.
但事实上，他们只用了六个月就完成了。
Instead, they turned it around in six.
因此，能够将这种疗法快速应用于KJ身上，确实非常了不起。
And, yeah, a quite remarkable turnaround then to get this therapy into KJ.
我们是否知道他现在的情况如何？
How is he doing since, do we know?
据我们了解，他的状况相当不错。
So our understanding is that he's doing quite well.
我知道医生们对他的进展都非常满意。
I know the doctors were all pleased with his progress.
更广泛地说，布伦丹，这表明这些高度特异性的药物是有效的。
And more broadly then, Brendan, this shows that these hyper specific drugs can be effective.
当然，还会有很多其他家庭正经历着类似这样令人心碎的处境。
And, of course, there'll be many other families experiencing heartbreaking situations like this.
我想现在的问题是，科学如何确保其他孩子也能获得同样的机会？
I suppose the question now is, how does science ensure that other children will have the same opportunity?
你知道，这需要大量的工作。
You know, that's gonna take a lot of work.
这个团队所展示的是，这是可能的，但你需要在监管框架内开展工作，才能让这类治疗真正快速、经济地惠及个体。
What this team helps show is that it is possible, but you need to work within a regulatory framework to make these kinds of treatments, you know, really come out quickly for individuals and in a cost effective way.
这确实需要大量的组织和监管方面的努力，正如你所指出的，伦理学家也需要参与其中。
You know, that's just gonna take a lot of organizing and regulatory hard work, including, as you pointed out, you know, ethicists need to be involved in this.
你必须获得许多人的支持，以确保这项工作能够安全、公平地进行，让真正需要的人能够实际获得治疗。
You have to get buy in from a lot of people to make sure that this is something that can be done safely and something that can be done equitably, that people who need it can actually access it.
好吧，布伦丹，真是太棒了。
Well, Brendan, absolutely fantastic.
非常感谢你。
Thank you so much.
我们会在节目笔记中附上《自然》十大人物的链接，以便听众可以阅读这些优秀的文章。
We'll put a link to Nature's 10 in the show notes so listeners can go and read all these excellent articles.
但目前来说，布伦丹·马赫，感谢你加入我们。
But for the time being, Brendan Maher, thank you for joining me.
谢谢，老兄。
Thanks, man.
好了，这也就到了节目的尾声。
Well, that brings us to the end of the show.
但别担心，听众朋友们。
But fear not, listeners.
在节日期间，我们会提供更多内容来让你保持愉悦。
There'll be plenty more content to keep you entertained over the festive period.
本周晚些时候，《自然》新闻与观点团队将加入我们，讨论他们今年的一些科学亮点。
Later this week, Nature's news and views team will join us to talk about a few of their science highlights of the year.
下周，我们将通过年度精选集锦，选出今年最喜爱的播客故事。
And next week, we'll be choosing our favorite podcast stories of the year in our annual clip show.
而在新的一年里，我们将展望2026年值得关注的事项。
And in the new year, we'll be looking ahead to what to expect in 2026.
在此期间，我是尼克·彼得鲁科夫。
Until then, I'm Nick Petrucow.
我是本杰明·汤普森。
And I'm Benjamin Thompson.
谢谢收听。
Thanks for listening.
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