符号、海豹突击队与自我发现：与克里斯蒂娜·莱拉博士共探职业迷途

我们就说，对啊，我会做饭。

We're like, yeah, I cook.

要不我们开始各自带些东西来？后来就这样形成了传统。要知道课程是有限的，因为只有三个月，之后那些小伙子就离开了。

How about we start all bringing something from and so then it became and again, you know, the classes were finite because it only three months and then the guys left.

不幸的是，有些人牺牲了，还有些人，你知道的，退休了之类的。

Unfortunately, some perished, others, you know, well retired and all that.

所以之后我们并不总能保持联系，但他们大多数人确实做到了。

So we were not always in contact with them afterwards, but most of them they did.

而且他们中大多数人甚至和教官成了朋友——那些教他们语言和部署地文化的教官。

And most of them even they became even friends with instructors that have taught them the language and the culture of where they were going to deploy.

这太有意思了。

That's so fascinating.

噢，真高兴我们能聊这些。

Oh, I'm so glad we're having this conversation.

在什么情况下你的直觉最敏锐？

In which situations your antenna works the best?

你说有些人会冥想，有些人可能画画、阅读或工作。

You're saying that some people do meditation, some might do painting, some reading, some working.

对你来说，什么时候最能听到这种声音？

What what is it for you when you hear it the most?

我通常在早晨听到。

I hear it in the morning.

我的项目被撤资六、七天后，我丈夫失去了他做了二十六年的工作。

Once my program was defunded, the six, seven days later, my husband lost his job of twenty six years.

短短一周内我们几乎就失去了所有收入来源。

So in just one week we were unplugged pretty much.

而且我们说的不是两三年的事，对吧？

And now we're not talking of two, three years, right?

我们说的是一辈子的事。

We're talking of a lifetime.

我二十五年，他二十六年。

Mine twenty five years, he twenty six years.

说到超现实的时刻，对吧？

So speaking of surreal time, right?

我记得那时正在攻读博士学位，他失业后的第二天我就有一篇论文要交。

And I remember I was doing my PhD at that time and I had a paper due a day after he lost his job.

我当时就想，我该怎么办？

And I'm like, what am I going to do?

我记得当时说，当你处于那种迷茫时刻——我们都有过——我就想，好吧。

So I remember saying, well, you know when you are in such a fog moment, which we all have, I was like, okay.

我甚至无法祈祷，老实说因为我太饿了。

I cannot even pray because I was too hungry to be honest.

我太饿了。

I was too hungry.

所以我不想祈祷。

And so I did not want to pray.

我什么都不想做。

I didn't want to do anything.

我就想，好吧。

I just was like, okay.

你把我放在这里，那就替我写论文吧。

You put me here, so write the paper for me.

说起来好笑，但我几乎就是坐下来开始打字。

So it's funny, but pretty much I sat down and I started typing.

我也不知道怎么回事，但我打完了论文，结果成了一篇出色的论文。

And I have no idea how, but I typed the paper and ended up being a phenomenal paper.

这是我会发表的东西。

That's something I will publish.

但话说回来，对你来说，对我来说就是放手。

But anyways, to your point, what is for me is that, is to let go.

所以当我有了那个时刻，这是在2021年，我说我需要快速重启。

So it happens once I had that moment, this was in 2021, I said, I need to reboot and fast.

否则，我会迅速走下坡路。

Otherwise, I will go downhill very fast.

我们都知道，用我们的头脑和心智，没有人能保证不会走下坡路。

And we both know with our brains, our mind, there is no warranty who can go down.

任何人都可能一蹶不振。

Anybody can go down.

所以我们必须时刻保持清醒，留意当下发生的一切。

So we have to be always very aware of what is happening here.

时刻如此。

Always.

于是我又这么做了。

So I did again.

我觉得自己需要远离社交媒体，不必做任何事，只需阅读。

I I felt like I needed to not be in social media, not have to do anything, just read.

我买了那种每日一页的日历，家里到处都放着这种日历。

And I got these guys, you know, like one page a day type of calendars, which I have all over my house.

总之，回到你的问题，我找到内心平静的方式是在清晨时分。

So, anyways, so to your question, the way that I find my own solace is early in the morning.

如今我已走出那段黑暗岁月，现在依然保持着这个习惯。

Now that I moved on from that dark age, I keep it now.

所以我清晨起床，打开古典音乐，带着每日一页的箴言在家中漫步，那些页面上写满了各种美好的寄语。

So I get up in the morning, I turn my classic music on and I walk through all the house with my one page a day that I spears with all different types of beautiful messages.

这就是我喝着咖啡开始一天的方式，边喝边看这些内容。

And that's the way I start with my coffee, drinking, okay, okay, this and this and this.

现在我开始得非常早，清晨时分，在日出前就开始——这本身也是件美妙的事。

Now I start very early, very, very early in the morning and which is another beautiful thing, Start before sunrise.

然后你会听到，那些美丽的鸟儿开始在外面鸣叫。

And then it's like you hear, you know, the beautiful birds start starting to be out there.

这就是我的生活方式。

And so that is the way I do it.

是的。

Yes.

真美好。

That's beautiful.

我也是这样做的。

I do the same.

我起得很早，那是一天中最美好的时刻，因为一切都那么安静。

I get up very early, and those are best moments in the day, I think, because everything is so quiet.

甚至没有人醒来，你可以沉浸在那份宁静中，真正地感受和倾听自己。

Nobody's even awake, and you have that calmness to be in and to really feel and hear yourself.

是啊。

And yeah.

是的。

Yes.

这太美妙了。

It's wonderful.

没错。

Yes.

你与海豹突击队合作的经历让我印象深刻。

And I was impressed with your fascination with the Navy SEALs working with them.

能说说他们最吸引你的是什么吗？

Can you tell what fascinates you in them?

你对他们哪些特质特别着迷？

What are those qualities that you are fascinated with?

是的。

Yes.

他们的韧性、价值观体系、团队精神，那种'我会全力以赴绝不回头'的信念。

Their resilience, their value system, their team mentality, their I'll do it all and I will not look back.

他们备受尊敬。

They're honored.

他们都是非常优秀的人。

They are very good people.

有趣的是现在我们都不年轻了。

And it's funny because we're all older now.

要知道，我认识他们所有人。

You know, I met them all.

我们当时都二十多岁。

We're all in our twenties.

你知道，现在我们年纪大多了，但那种品质依然存在。

You know, now we're much later in life and it's the quality stays there.

面对面地。

Physically.

我们都在改变，这很有趣，因为我确信他们对我也有同样的评价，但很多时候我遇到某人时，他们会说'你是某某'，而他会说'你是克里斯蒂娜'。

We all change and it's funny because of course I'm sure they say the same thing about me but many times I run into someone like you're like such and such and he's like you're Christina.

我的天啊。

I'm like, oh my god.

所以他们可能看起来和二十多岁时不一样了，但内在的品质始终如一。

So they may not look the same as when they were in all this in their twenties but quality inside stays the same.

他们的荣誉准则保持不变。

Their honor system stays the same.

如果我要设定人生目标，那就是追求传承——接受外表会改变的事实，专注于那些永恒不变的东西：你的荣誉准则和价值观体系。

And these are the things if I have to have my goal to approach for life is legacy, is that live the fact that the outside changes, work on what will never change, which is your honor system, your value system.

这并不意味着我们不会犯错。

That doesn't mean we will not make mistakes.

我每天都在犯错。

I make mistakes every day.

但每一天，随着太阳升起，我也有机会迎来更好的一天。

But every day, as the sun rises, so does the opportunity that I have to have a better day.

即使在夜晚，我仍对自己所做的不感到满意。

And even if at some at at night, I still don't feel happy what I did.

没关系。

It's okay.

第二天，就像《土拨鼠之日》一样。

The following day, it's like Groundhog Day.

我觉得我们生活在《土拨鼠之日》般的生活里。

I feel like we live in a life of Groundhog Day.

你知道的，就像那部电影里的一切都一成不变。

You know, like the the movie that is everything the same.

仔细想想，每次太阳升起又落下，月亮升起，这不就是《土拨鼠之日》吗。

If you think about it, know, every time the sun comes out and then the sun goes down and the moon up and then so it's Groundhog Day.

我们只是以为自己过着不同的生活，但实际上我们只是在重复。

We just think that we're living something different, but in fact, it's just we're just reliving.

我们每次都有机会做得更好。

We're every time having an opportunity to do better.

而更好不一定是不犯错，而是承认，好吧，我犯了那个错。

And the better is not necessarily to not make mistakes, but to say, okay, I made that mistake.

好的。

Okay.

那个错误我不会再犯了。

That one I will not make again.

我会犯别的错误，但不会是那个。

I And will do another one, but not that one.

是啊。

Yeah.

我有了全新的体验。

I've got a new new experience.

是的。

Yes.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

我同意。

I agree.

现在我对这个故事非常好奇。

And now I'm very curious about the story.

没错。

Yes.

你就像真正的作家一样，把我们带到了那个巅峰，是的，经过这么多年你仍处于这种境遇中。

You brought us a lot like a real writer to that peak that, yes, you are in a situation after so many years.

现在是2021年，你和你的丈夫都没有收入。

It's 2021, and both you and your husband, you don't have income.

那你们是怎么做的？

So what did you do?

所以我完成了已经开始的事情。

So I finished what I started.

我完成了博士学位。

I finished my PhD.

嗯。

Mhmm.

于是，我重新回到了最初的爱好，那是什么？

So, again, I went back to my first love, which is what?

书籍。

Books.

那又是什么呢？

And which is what?

还有符号。

Also symbols.

因此我的研究是关于宗教符号如何在逆境中帮助我们应对。

And so my research was on how the use of religious symbols help us cope in times of adversity.

基本上这是一个美妙的循环。

So basically it's a beautiful you know loop.

就像我总爱讲的战士故事——离家踏上征途，归来时虽仍是同一个战士，却已蜕变成不同的人。

You know, like it's like the I always love the story of the warrior that leaves home to go and do the journey and then when they come back, it's a different person even though it's the same warrior, but it's a different person.

我的情况也是如此。

Well in my case it's the same.

我的人生始于一种孤独感。

I started my life with okay, I feel lonely.

我该如何填补空虚？

How can I fill the void?

书籍、符号与图像。

Books and symbols, images.

当这种情况发生时，我感到自己像是被拔掉了插头，因为我把自己的价值等同于所做的事情。

Well when this happened that I felt unplugged because that is the other thing, I equated what I did.

我的身份就是我所做的事。

My identity was what I did.

所以我就是我所做的事。

So I was what I did.

这是个错误——我们是我们本身。

Mistake, we are who we are.

我们不是我们所做的事。

We are not what we do.

我们所做的事随时都可能被夺走。

What we do could be taken anyway, anytime.

你可以是位杰出的电影演员，但看看现在的情况（比如洛杉矶正在发生的事），他们可能不得不重新考虑未来的职业道路。

You can be a phenomenal, you know, movie actor or actress and look what was going on now, you know, unfortunately in Los Angeles, you know, and all of a sudden they probably may have to rethink the career path in the future.

因此，无论我们认为自己在做什么，无论计划要做什么，都不一定会按预期发展。

So whatever we think we do, whatever we plan that we will do is not necessarily going to go accordingly.

但永远不变的是我们的本质。

But what will always be is who we are.

所以我不确定是否回答了这个问题。

So I don't know if I answer the question.

是的，你开始了。

Yes, you started.

你开始了。

You started.

那是个开场。

That was an introduction.

所以问题是你如何应对那种情况，以及你是如何走出来的？

So it's about how you cope with that situation and how did you get out of it?

或许不该问你是如何摆脱困境的？

Maybe not how did you get out of it?

它是如何发展的？

In what did it develop?

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

它把你带到了哪里？

Where did it bring you?

太棒了。

Excellent.

现在是的。

Now yes.

所以当这种情况再次发生时，我又回到了书本的循环中，然后我说，但现在我在我的旅程中加入了心理健康这一部分。

So when this happened again, I went back to the loop of the books and that and then I said, but now I added to my journey the mental health.

为什么？

Why?

因为与海军特种作战部队共事二十五年间，我目睹了很多，非常多关于这些人所承受的心理和情感负担。

Because having been working with naval special warfare for twenty five years, I saw a lot, like a lot in terms of the mental and the emotional weight that these people carry.

想象一下上战场的情景。

Imagine going to war.

你无法预知会发生什么。

You don't know what will happen.

你不知道自己能否双腿健全地回来。

You don't know if you will come back with two legs.

你甚至不知道能否回来，明白吗？未来充满未知。

You don't know if you will come back with, you know, what will happen?

你可能会错过孩子的出生。

You may miss, you know, the birth of your kids.

因此我目睹了大量心理与情感上的挣扎。

So I saw a lot of mental and emotional turmoil.

于是我决定完成博士学位，同时我说我热爱象征符号、心理健康和心灵研究。

So I decided to finish the PhD but I said I love symbols and I love mental health and I love the mind.

我该如何将这些领域融合起来呢？

And how can I put it all together?

于是我就这么做了。

And so that is what I did.

因为当时我已从原有的身份中抽离，这种状态持续了几个月，算是很长的时间了。

Since now I was unplugged from my identity of what I did, it lasted a few months, which is a long time.

之后当我感到如此空虚时，我又开始用知识和学习来填补它。

Then after that when I felt so void, so empty, then I started filling it in again with knowledge, learning.

就像我最初开始人生那样，对吧？

Again, the way I started my life, right?

用书籍、阅读和知识来充实自己。

Filling it in with books, with reading, with knowledge.

但这次的充实方式有所不同。

Now this time was a different type of filling it in.

这次是有目的的。

This was purposeful.

现在我知道自己想要什么了。

Now I knew what I wanted.

这就是我所奉献的，我余生都将致力于提升人们对心理健康的认识，在生活中做出健康选择。

And so that is what I devoted and I am devoted the rest of my life how to bring the awareness of mental health, healthy choices in our lives.

逆境总会发生。

Adversity will happen.

我们来到世上就是要经历逆境的。

We are here to go through adversity.

如果我们没有遭遇逆境，那说明我们太安于现状，除了喝咖啡什么都不做——但即便这样也是逆境，因为总会有事情突然发生让你措手不及。

If we are not having adversity means that we are too comfortable at home not doing much more than just having a coffee and even that, that is adversity because at some point something will happen that will shock you.

所以我们必须经历逆境才能成长。

So adversity has to happen for us to expand.

我想做的是引发这样的对话：其实有很多资源可用，看医生是一种，遵医嘱用药或治疗是下一步，还有其他资源比如灵性追求或目标驱动的生活。

Well, what I want to do is bring up the conversation and there are different resources, going to the doctor is one, doing whatever the doctor says in terms of medication or treatment is the next And also there are other resources like the spirituality or purpose driven life.

有些人害怕称之为灵性，因为这听起来像是宗教。

Some people are afraid to call it spirituality because it seems like it could be religion.

未必如此，这只是个灵性时刻。

Not necessarily, just this is a spiritual moment.

我们是两个美丽的灵魂在交流如何帮助听众的美好想法。

We are two beautiful minds exchanging beautiful ideas on how to help whoever is listening.

这是一个灵性时刻。

This is a spiritual moment.

这就是我想做的，创造更多这样的时刻，而且资源如此丰富——这才是关键。

So that is what I want to do, Bring more of these moments and there are so many resources and that is the thing.

我们有太多方法可以填补创伤的空洞、填补孤独的空虚、或填补心理情感动荡的空白。

We have so many ways to fill in the void of trauma or to fill in the void of solitude or to fill in the void of mental or emotional turmoil.

这正是我存在的意义。

And that is what I am here for.

是的。

Yes.

这很有趣，因为你的一生首先都在学习如何为自己填补空虚。

And it's so interesting because all your life you were first of all, learning how to fill the void for yourself.

没错。

Yes.

然后在获得这种经验或使其更广泛、更自觉的过程中，你现在已经在帮助他人填补那个空虚了。

Then in reaching this experience or making it broader, more conscious, and now you're already helping others to fill that void.

所以这就是贯穿你一生的连续过程。

So there is this continuum that going through your life.

是的。

Yes.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

那么你能详细说说你的经历吗？

So can you provide maybe more details about your journey?

你学的是什么专业？

What did you study?

具体来说，你是如何开始帮助他人并与他们合作的？

What exactly, how did you start helping people working with them?

也许可以举一些你工作的例子。

Maybe some examples of what you do.

当然。

Absolutely.

这一切始于我在海军服役时，我的办公室里有一张橙色大沙发，许多士兵在部署前或部署后会关上门走进来，说'我们聊聊吧'。

So it all started when I was working with, again, in the Navy, I had in my office a big orange sofa and many of the guys pre deployment or after deployment they would just come in closer the door and say let's talk.

为什么？

Why?

因为如果他们公开谈论恐惧、焦虑或痛苦，可能会影响他们的职业发展。

Because if they go and talk out loud about fears or anxieties or pain, it could harm their career path.

他们必须时刻保持坚强。

They had to be always strong.

总之，这一切让我成为了一个很好的倾听者。

So anyways, all this is to say I became a very good listener.

这就是一切的开始。

And that is where it all started.

倾听。

Listening.

倾听。

Listening.

然后我就想，天哪，我希望我能多说些话，为这些人提供更多资源。

And then I was like, gosh, I wish I would be able to talk more give more resources for these guys.

于是我又回去学习心理学，专注于认知、指令，以及任何与神经可塑性和神经科学相关的内容，研究大脑如何运作。

So going back to study psychology and study and my focus is on cognition, instructions, anything that has to do with neuroplasticity and and neuroscience and anything that has to do with how the brain works.

这成为了我的专注方向，因为我知道这样我就能提供基于杰出研究和他人卓越工作的优质资源，并希望自己也能有所贡献。

So that became my focus because I knew that at then I could provide good resources that are founded in phenomenal studies, phenomenal work that others have done and that I am hoping to contribute.

所以当我做研究时，我又从这些天主教符号入手，因为我上的是天主教高中。

So when I was doing my research, I started again with the symbols of in this case was the Catholic symbols because again I went to Catholic high school.

这对我来说很容易。

So I was it was easy for me.

我招募了参与者，过程很美妙，因为我只需要十到十二人，结果有近四十人想参与。

And I recruited my participants and it was beautiful because I just needed ten, twelve participants ended up being like almost over 40 wanted to participate.

人数多到我的委员会主席说：克里斯蒂娜，你永远完成不了这个项目。

It was so much that the chair of my committee said, Christina, you will never finish this.

你有太多转录内容要处理了。

You have so many transcripts to go through.

你不可能全部放进去。

You cannot put it all.

而我说，我会的。

And I said, I will.

因为他们都想做出贡献。

Because they all wanted to contribute.

我觉得我不能辜负他们的灵魂。

I feel like I could not cheat their souls.

他们想要谈论这件事。

They wanted to talk about it.

于是我惊喜地发现这些人——重申一下，我的研究课题是虔诚的天主教徒如何运用宗教符号和教义来帮助自己度过逆境。

So what I beautifully found was these people so again, my research was how do people in this case devout Catholics use religious symbols and religious teachings to help them cope during adversity.

而我发现这些不同类型的符号不仅仅是十字架或念珠，还包括香炉。

And what I found is all these different types of symbols were not just like a crop or a rosary, but it was also the incense.

还包括圣乐。

It was also the sacred music.

还包括五种感官。

It was also the five senses.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还包括冥想。

It was also contemplation.

还包括禅修。

It was also meditation.

就是祈祷。

It was prayer.

而所有这些的共同点是，没有人祈求上帝改变他们的境遇。

And and the common denominator of all of them, no one was asking for God to change what they were going through.

他们唯一期望的，是能有一只手引导他们度过当下。

The only thing they were doing was to have a hand to guide them through the moment.

所以这其中的美妙之处在于，他们并没有抗争。

So the beauty of this is they were not fighting.

再次强调，当我说逆境时，我的几位参与者家中都有人自杀。

And again, when I'm saying adversity, a couple of my participants had suicide in their families.

其中一位的儿子自杀了。

One of them had a son who committed suicide.

另一位则是配偶自杀。

The other one had a spouse.

还有个人曾身处战区，飞机被击中，虽然他最终活了下来，但他说当时他唱着童年时跟母亲学的神圣歌曲，就是那首圣歌支撑着他度过生死关头。

Other guy was going through war zone and his plane was hit and then he made it obviously, but it was that and spoke, he was saying that he had this song, this beautiful sacred song that he had learned early on in his life with his mother and that is what he was singing when he thought he was going to go.

但他们中没有一个人在祈求'请让我摆脱这种逆境'。

But none of them were saying, please get me out of this adversity.

他们只是寻求帮助自己应对、度过难关的力量。

It was just to help them cope, to help them live through.

要知道，唯一的出路就是穿越困境。

Know, the only way out is through.

这些宗教符号帮助他们度过逆境。

These religious symbols help them go through their adversity.

现在我正在进行下一项研究，事实上，我刚和我的论文导师完成了第一本书。

And now my next research, in fact, I just finished my first book with the chair of my dissertation.

我们合著了一本书。

We co authored a book.

实际上，这本书目前正在印刷中，我刚拿到初版样书，需要仔细检查是否有需要修改的地方。

As a matter of fact, I have this is a it's not like the it's in printing now, but I just finally got the first print and I have to go through it and see how is anything that we need to change.

但这第一本是关于天主教符号的，而我们接下来的研究将聚焦其他宗教。

But this is the first one is on Catholic symbols but my next, our next research will be on other religions.

事实上我们将研究13个宗教，对相同主题进行调研。

In fact we're going to have 13 religions that we're going to investigate and research the same thing.

所有主要宗教都将在我们的研究中发声，探讨各宗教符号如何帮助人们应对困境。

So all of the main religions are going to have a voice in our research about the symbols of each religion, how they help people cope.

核心理念是符号能超越语言、超越宗教、超越文化。

The idea is that symbols again transcend language, transcend religions, transcend cultures.

符号直接与我们大脑中无意识但确实存在的部分对话。

Symbols talk directly to the part of our brain that is not conscious but it's there.

它就在那里，正是它引导我们做出这样或那样的行为。

And it's there and it's the one that make us you know like guide us to do this or that.

我们不知道自己为何会有这种反应，或者为何害怕某些事物。

We don't know why we're reacting like this or why we're afraid of that.

这些潜意识深藏在我们意识无法触及的角落。

Well it's somewhere hiding up there that our consciousness is not even aware of.

因此符号帮助我们连接这种信仰体系，让我们感到一切安好。

So that is what the symbols help us to to tap into that, you know, belief system and be like, all is good.

一切安好。

All is good.

即使处境不佳，也要相信一切安好。

Even if it's not good, the circumstances all is good.

我将有力量度过这个难关。

I will have the strength to go through this.

是的，这就是我想在这里奉献剩余时间去做的事情。

So that is yes, what I want to devote as well the rest of my time here.

哦，这太美好了。

Oh, that's beautiful.

你能向我们的观众展示一下这本书吗？这样他们也能看到。

Can you show the book for our viewers so that they will be able to see as well?

再次说明，这还不是最终的最终版本，但它是

So, again, it's it's not the final final final version, but it's

象征主义和宗教教义透过心理学视角的力量。

power of symbolism and religious teachings through the lens of psychology.

太美了。

Beautiful.

太美了。

Beautiful.

是的。

Yes.

我正在和Frank Lee博士一起进行这项工作。

I'm doing it with doctor Frank Lee.

所以是的。

And so yeah.

实际上这将是一个12卷的系列丛书，因为它会涵盖所有宗教内容，并且还会在后续添加新内容——第二卷将探讨相同主题，但会从人工智能的视角切入。

And it's going to be in fact a 12 serious book because again, it will have all the religions and it has something that it will be added in the next so the number two is going to be this one, but through the lens of AI.

我们将看到人工智能如何帮助我们推进演化进程，特别是在美德符号运用这个领域。

So we're going to see how AI help us also go through our evolution of, in this case, of how the use of virtuous symbols.

是的，整合所有这些内容将会非常引人入胜。

So, yeah, it's going to be fascinating to to incorporate all this.

是的。

Yes.

这太棒了，我认为这个创意非常独特。

It's amazing because I think it's very unique.

我认为目前市面上还没有类似的作品存在。

I don't think there was anything like that done before what is available right now.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且，我们想让它保持非常简单。

And and and again, we want to make it very simple.

这是一本很短的书。

This is a very short book.

就像我妈妈不喜欢读太多书。

It's like my mom doesn't like to read much.

可能这就是为什么我反而酷爱阅读。

Probably that's why I love to read much.

你知道，我们往往会做与父母相反的事。

You know, we tend to do the opposite of our parents.

所以我妈妈说别写太长的东西。

And so my mom said don't write anything too long.

就算是用英文写的她也绝不会读。

I will never read it even though it's in English.

所以我就说，妈妈，首先我得先把它翻译出来。

So I'm like, well, mom, first of all, I need to first translate it.

所以呢，就算你翻译了，如果太长我也不会看的。

So, well, even if you translate it, if it's too long, I won't read it.

好吧，谢谢你，我的头号粉丝。

Well, thank you my number one fan.

但等我给她看这个时，她就说，好吧。

But once I show her this, she's like, okay.

翻译吧。

Translate it.

我会看的，因为它很简单。

I will read it because it's simple.

用词简单又短小精悍。

It's in simple words and it's short.

核心思想就是：拜托，没必要搞得那么复杂。

The idea is, come on, don't you don't need to make it so complicated.

这些资源就是为我们准备的，而且很简单明了。

The resources are here for us and they are simple.

我们做得越简单，就越容易获取它。

The simpler we make it, the easier we can access it.

是的。

Yes.

非常感谢你的分享，我也很期待这本书的出版。

Thank you so much for sharing this, and I will be also looking forward to the release of this book.

没错。

So yes.

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢你提到这一点。

Thank you for mentioning it.

真正让我感兴趣并引发思考的，是你在这种经济不安全感频发时期采取的方法。

And what really interested me and made me think is your approach during the time of this financial insecurity, which happens a lot.

目前，神经科技领域有很多人正在失业，这正是我们播客所关注的领域。

Right now, so many people are losing their jobs in the field of neurotechnologies, where our podcast is coming from.

所以这很艰难。

So it's tough.

非常艰难。

It's very tough.

问题在于，在这种情况下我们该怎么办？

And the question becomes what do we do in these situations?

当然，大家都在努力寻找新工作，你知道的，寻找收入来源。

Of course, are trying to find a new job, you know, some source of income.

但我不确定你当时是否也在找工作，实际上你还去进修了。

But you also I don't know if you were looking for jobs at that time, but you actually also went to study.

是的，通过学习获取知识，迈向个人发展、知识和经验的下一阶段。

Yes, to acquire knowledge to get to the next level of your development, knowledge, experience.

我个人认为这是非常可取的做法，因为我出生在立陶宛，经历过苏联解体时期，那时人们的经济状况都非常糟糕。

I personally think that's a very valid approach because I went as I was born in Lithuania, I went through this collapse of the Soviet Union when people were in very bad situations financially.

我妈妈当时也说，你知道的，这是学习的最佳时机。

And even my mom was saying, you know, it's the best time to study.

直接去大学，去获取你的专业技能。

Just go to the university, go get your profession.

那么根据你现在的经验，既然你已经能看到结果，你对此有什么总体看法？

So what do you think about that in general and based on your experience now that you already can see the results of it?

这是个重大问题。

Huge question.

确实是个重大问题，因为在我分享的所有对话中，这可能是我认为最适用于即将发生情况的部分。

A huge question because this of all the conversation that I've been sharing so far, this is the probably I would say the most applicable for what is soon going to happen.

正如你我都很清楚，随着AI的出现，一切都会被重新定义。

As you and I very well know with the advent of AI, everything will be remapped.

在大学层面，现在学生上的课程将会过时，因为未来一切都将与机器人技术、自动化和量子计算相关。

And at the college level, you know, the classes that the students have taken now will become obsolete because now everything will be with robotics, with automation, with quantum computing.

我的意思是，一切变化如此之快，一周内存储的信息就会过时。

I mean, is everything changing like in one week is stored information.

比如我最近读到关于2025年软件工程师的预测。

Like I was reading about software engineers, 2025.

不知道他们中有多少人会失业。

I don't know how many of them are going to lose their jobs.

所以这是个非常严峻的问题。

So this is a huge question.

当我们失去收入来源时该怎么办？

What do we do when we lose the source of income?

我们该如何应对这种情况？

How do we cope with that?

我认为我们不应该只是被动应对。

I would say that we don't necessarily just cope.

我们必须采取行动。

We have to take action.

沉溺于孤独和沮丧中很容易，短暂地这样做没问题——但'短暂'意味着要给自己设定一个期限。

It's easy to rest in our loneliness and feeling bad and it's fine to do it for a while, for a while meaning give yourself a finite time.

但最终你总得振作起来，采取行动。

But then at some point you do have to dust off and get up and do something about it.

否则你会陷入一个越来越深的黑洞。

Otherwise you fall into a hole that will be darker and darker.

与此同时，随着AI的出现，情况已今非昔比。

And in the meantime with the advent of AI in the meantime, it's not like before.

不像从前休整一年后还能轻松回归岗位。

Like if you just took a year off and then come back, okay, okay, yes.

你知道，现在这里那里出点小状况就...哎呀糟糕

You know, a few things here and there and you oh, whoops.

那可太棒了（反讽）

That's great.

一年前还风平浪静，如今各种策略性AI层出不穷，简直疯狂。

Now a year ago and now you get everything with strategy all the different type of AIs and it's crazy.

所以我要说：是的，要明白世事无常这个道理。

So I will say, yes, learn that nothing is for sure.

第二，不要做计划。

Second, don't plan.

不要做计划，因为如果你做了计划，它可能会像我和我丈夫的计划一样被推翻。

Don't plan because if you plan, it may be unplugged as I planned and my husband planned.

但是，要保持警觉。

However, have the antenna up.

而现在的警觉性要求，无论你喜不喜欢，都需要教育。

And the antenna up now requires whether you like it or not, education.

此时此刻保持警觉，你别无选择。

The antenna up at this very moment, you don't have another choice.

教育并不意味着一定要去读MBA。

Now education doesn't mean necessarily go to get an MBA.

事实上，我强烈建议不要这么做。

As a matter of fact I would strongly suggest to not do it.

与其那样，不如找些好书来读，因为MBA将会被重新定义，我们都知道这一点。

For that get wonderful books and read about it because MBA is going to be remapped as we know it.

我是说市场营销现在已经完全过时了。

I mean marketing is completely done now.

我是说，对，那是另一个观点。

I mean yeah, that's another thought.

所以教育问题。

So education.

如果你二十多岁，我会说在上大学前先等等，因为你现在学的东西两年后就会过时。

Learn if you are in your twenties, I would say before going to college, wait, wait because what you're going to learn now two years from now will be obsolete.

所以我甚至建议去学门手艺，因为手艺活将会非常必要。

So I would even say go and learn a trade because trades are going to be very necessary.

然后同时要立即开始了解人工智能。

And then immediately, at the same time, about AI.

学习编程。

Learn about coding.

尽管有人说，要是以后不需要编程了呢？

Even though they say, well, what if there's no coding?

没关系。

Doesn't matter.

只要学会说这门语言就行。

Just learn how to speak the language.

学习机器学习。

Learn about machine learning.

不管喜不喜欢，都要了解这些。

Learn about all that whether you like it or not.

想象一下第一辆汽车出现的时代，对吧？

Imagine the times of when the first car appeared, right?

当时所有人都说，不，我要继续骑马。

And everybody was like, no, I will go on with the horse.

当然你可以继续骑马，但现在上班会多花点时间。

Well, you can go on with your horse but it would take you a little bit longer to go to work nowadays.

所以如果你要通勤半小时，可能得提前三天出发，对吧？

So you will have to probably leave three days before if you have to commute half hour, right?

人工智能也是如此。

So it's the same thing with AI.

你可能不喜欢它，但如果你想拥有健康的生活，就必须学会驾驭这股浪潮。

You may not like it but if you want to have a healthy life you have to learn to ride that wave.

例如我是美国人工智能学会的成员，这是个很棒的会员资格，我能直接向该领域的杰出领袖们学习到很多东西。

So for example I belong to the American Society for Artificial Intelligence, a phenomenal membership and I'm learning a lot firsthand with these phenomenal leaders on the field.

这是我的首选吗？

Is it my first choice?

不，我热爱语言学。

No, I love linguistics.

我热爱符号学。

I love symbols.

我热爱书籍。

I love books.

那才是我的舒适区。

That is my comfort zone.

但如果我不乘上AI的浪潮，不参与讨论，不投身研究，我就无法提供帮助。

But I will not be able to help if I am not riding the AI wave, if I am not part of the discussion, if I'm not part of the research.

事实上我加入了——协会下设多个分委会——我加入了研究与教育团队，因为我必须乘上这股浪潮。

In fact I joined, there are subcommittees and I joined the team for research and education because I have to ride that wave.

若想有所作为，就必须乘上这令人不适的浪潮。

If I want to be helpful, I have to ride the uncomfortable wave.

这就是我的观点。

That is what I would say.

为孩子们而学习。

Learn for kids.

对吧？

Right?

学习这门技艺，无论如何都要将AI融入所有领域。

Learn the trade and definitely no matter what incorporate AI in everything.

去了解它。

Learn about it.

对于年长者而言，既然选择了职业道路，就要做好准备——因为你们的专业领域即将迎来彻底重构。

And for older people that they have a career path, be ready because your profession is going to be revamped, remapped.

其中部分职业可能会以我们今日所知的形式消失，这将引发大量心理与情感层面的动荡。

Some of them will probably disappear as we know it today and it's going to bring a lot of mental and emotional turmoil.

所以我建议提前利用这些额外资源，比如灵性修炼，在被裁员前就要开始行动。

So I would say go to these extra resources like again spirituality, go do that before you're laid off.

这就像开设银行账户一样。

You see it's like having the bank account.

要在需要之前就备好资金。

Have the money before you need it.

所以请提前做好储备。

So deposit that before.

从今天就开始建设，哪怕你觉得暂时不需要。

Start creating today when you don't think you need it.

从今天就开始培养良好习惯。

Start creating today a good habit.

无论是古典音乐、绘画、散步，还是找教练、咨询师，或是与朋友交谈

Good habits either which is classical music or painting or walking or I don't know or having a coach or having a counselor or talking with

一个

a

朋友。

friend.

这些事情能让你摆脱工作、回家、做饭、看电视的固定模式。

Something that takes you out of your zone of going to work, come back home, cook, watch TV.

这种模式行不通，因为一旦你的职业受到影响——而且没有任何职业能幸免——

That is not going to work because once your profession is touched and there is no one profession that is not going to be touched.

所有职业都会在不同程度上受到影响。

All professions are going to be touched in different capacities.

但当这种情况发生时，才不是临时抱佛脚寻找应对之策的时机。

But once that happens it's not the time to try to look for how now I'm going to cope with this.

我们必须提前准备好资源。

We need to have resources before.

因此教育至关重要，要积累你的资源。

So education is huge and build your resources.

在你的职业受到影响之前就要积累资源，这是必然会发生的事。

Build your resources before your profession is touched, which will happen.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常有帮助。

Very helpful.

我认为你的教育方法非常重要。

And your education approach, I think, is is very important.

掌握一门手艺，随时随地都能派上用场，而且需求会越来越大。

Having a trade, something that you can use anytime, anywhere, which becomes more and more in demand.

即便是乍看之下非常简单的技能。

Even very simple From the first glance, simple things.

我们有些人从事比如安装窗户、接电这类工作

We have people who, let's say, install windows, do electricity.

他们正在抬高价格

They are jacking prices.

这些职业变得非常抢手

They become very so much in demand.

他们的时薪大幅上涨

Their payment per hour grows significantly.

所以你看，即便是非常简单的工作，只要结合AI技术并持续发展，就能不断进步

So, you know, just simple, very simple jobs, but then add an AI and progress further and further already with that combination.

是的

Yes.

还有一点，当然，你知道我偏爱书籍

And one thing also, of course, you know, I'm biased because I adore books.

我特别想建议听众们开始学习人工智能的历史，计算机发展的历史

One thing that I really invite the listeners is to really like start learning the history of AI, the history of computers.

因为一旦你开始了解这一切的起源，它就不再是那个可怕的怪物了。

Because once you start learning how it all started, it's not this monster anymore.

这就像学习汽车的历史一样，只不过汽车当时并没有那么普及，当然摧毁了许多行业，但随后它带来了惊人的新一代产业。

It becomes like, it's like learning, you know, the history of cars only that cars are not that pervasive in of course destroyed many industries obviously back then, but then it brought about a phenomenal next level of industries.

人工智能也是如此，只是随着人工智能、机器人和自动化技术的发展，它将在我们的生活中变得更加无处不在。

The same with AI, only that with artificial intelligence and robotics and automation, it's going to be much more pervasive in our lives.

但即便如此，也要了解它的历史，了解这一切是如何开始的。

But even then learn the history, how it all started.

我强烈建议订购一些书籍，去亚马逊或谷歌搜索'我应该读哪10本最好的书来了解这一切的起源？'

And I strongly suggest like order some books, go to Amazon or Google, what are the 10 best books that I could read to learn about how it all started?

然后你就会开始喜欢上它，就像电影《绿野仙踪》那样，对吧？

And then you're starting to like, you know, like the movie The Wizard of Oz, Right?

所以我觉得人工智能就像那个巫师。

So I feel like AI is like this the wizard.

对吧？

Right?

直到多萝西拉开帷幕，才发现这头庞然大物其实是位老绅士在操控一切。

And is this huge monster until Dodo goes and pulls the curtain and is this old gentleman doing this.

我认为当我们祛除AI的神秘面纱，去了解它的起源时，生活会变得简单得多。

So I think that life would be much easier when we dismissify AI and go and learn how it all started.

它究竟是什么？

What is it?

别把力量留在他人手中。

Don't leave the power in the hands of ours.

只管去学习。

Just learn.

什么是机器学习？

What is machine learning?

什么是深度学习？

What is deep learning?

所有这些美妙的事物是什么？

What is all the beautiful?

什么是AGI（通用人工智能）？

What is AGI?

我是说，别让他人主导话题，因为你的生活将影响它。

I mean don't allow others to be the ones leading the talk because your life is going to impact it.

所以要掌握相关知识。

So have knowledge on it.

因此要积极主动。

So be proactive.

这就是我的建议——与其开着电视看三小时，不如看一小时，然后用两小时阅读，多了解这些技术是如何起源的。

So that is what I would say instead of like turning the TV on and have it three hours, turn it to one hour and then do two hours of reading and read more about how it all started.

图灵是谁？

Who is Turing?

我是说，有太多精彩的书籍值得阅读。

Who is I mean, there are so many cool books to read.

这就是我想说的。

So that is what I would say.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

我完全支持这一点。

I absolutely support that.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

既然我们现在更多地谈论职业，这也是我们播客的主题，你职业生涯中最具挑战性的部分是什么？你职业道路上最大的问题是什么？你是如何克服的？

And as we're talking more now about careers and that's the topic of our podcast, What was the most challenging part of your career, the biggest problem in your career path, and how did you overcome it?

最大的问题，嗯，我遇到过许多重大、严峻的问题。

The biggest problem, well, I had so many big, huge problems.

我是说，我得好好挑选一下，因为我从事过太多不同的工作。

I mean, would have to pick because I worked in so many different things.

我曾担任过大学教师、高中教师、小学教师，还做过田间教师，后来成为项目经理、翻译、口译员，以及一家初创公司的联合创始人。

I was a teacher at the university level, at high school level, at elementary level, and then teacher for the fields, then program manager, translator, interpreter, co founder of a startup.

那又是另一个故事了。

That is another story.

所以问题和挑战是日常存在的。

So problems, challenges are daily.

这不像你解决了问题就能说，现在我可以休息了。

It's like it's not like you solve it and you're like, Now now I can just rest.

所以我认为每天早晨都需要与自己独处的时间，用你选择的方式给自己充电，做好准备，因为总会有电话打来，总会有事情让你偏离原定路线。

So I think is every morning again have your time of solitude with yourself, charge your battery with whatever you choose and get ready because something, a phone call will happen and something will take you off the route.

那我就给你讲一个发生过的有趣故事吧。

So I will tell you one time something that happened that will be interesting.

虽然有很多很多故事可讲，但我特别要告诉你这一个。

Again, many many stories to tell but I'll tell you one specifically.

当时我是项目经理，时间大概是2012年，那时需要学习普什图语，因为团队要去阿富汗开展牧场和乳业项目。

So I was a program manager, we are talking probably 2012 and there was a need to learn Pashto because the fields were going to go to Afghanistan and they needed pasture and dairy.

而我一如既往地，他们从来不会给你六个月时间去找合适人选。

So I, as always, they never give you know six months for you to find the right person.

他们告诉你我们两周内就需要。

They tell you we need it in two weeks.

是啊，因为我们能轻松找到人，认识当地的人，我可以在两周内培训出来，但我做到了。

Yeah, because we can find them so easy, know someone from the area that I can train in two weeks, but I did it.

所以和我出色的团队一起，因为再次强调，这全靠团队合作。

So with my wonderful team, because again, it's all about teamwork.

我有一支非凡的团队，感谢上帝，我们现在依然是非常好的朋友。

I had a phenomenal team, which thank God I'm still very good friends with.

于是我们都坐在那里，像在拔头发一样发愁。

And so we all like sat there like stretching the hair.

好吧。

Okay.

后来我们找到了这位当时很了不起的人——他那时是难民，后来成为来自阿富汗的外籍人士，但他当时完全是新手。

So we found this phenomenal back then was refugee then became foreign international from Afghanistan, but he was brand new.

他那时刚到美国大概，我不确定，可能才三个月。

He was, he had arrived to The US probably, I don't know, three months.

他的英语很生涩，但他具备我们所需的一切素质，包括文化背景，我记得他在自己国家曾是一名生物学家。

His English was chopped, but he got everything that we needed, which is the culture, which is the, I think he was a biologist back in his country.

总之，我培训了他，告诉他我们需要什么。

Anyways, so I trained him, I tell him this is what we need.

我给了他所有资料，然后他就去上课了。

I gave him all the things and off he goes to the class.

教室在大楼的另一侧。

The class was in another part of the building.

所以不在我这栋楼，是在另一栋楼里。

So it was not in my building, it was in another building.

好的，第一天到来时，这又是一个为期三个月、每天六小时的课程。

Okay, so here comes the first day and it was again three months for six hours each day.

所以强度相当大。

So it was quite intensive.

第一周时，你知道，我总在问：进展如何？

The first week, you know, I'm always asking, so how's it going?

我和那些家伙聊了聊。

I talk with the guys.

进展如何？

How's it going?

嗯，你知道的，他是英国人。

Like, okay, you know, he's English.

好吧，但我们觉得能跟上进度。

Okay, but okay, we think we will follow.

然后第二周到了，我接到一个电话，当时正在办公室。

And then the second week comes and then I get a phone call and I'm in my office.

那天我心情特别好，因为觉得一切都在按计划进行。

I'm having a very good day because I'm thinking okay, all is going as planned.

我把所有专业讲师都安排好了，各司其职。

I have the instructor subject matter experts all there one teaching this, teaching that.

那天早晨本来特别愉快，结果突然来了个电话。

It was even how much enjoying the morning and then I get a phone call.

于是我接起电话。

So I pick up my phone.

我说，喂。

I'm like, yes.

外语项目，克里斯蒂娜·利布拉。

Foreign language program, Christina Libra.

然后他说，哦，坚持住。

And so he says, oh, stick it.

他说‘你想支付所有那些我可能在词典里都来不及查的单词费用’。

You want to pay the all the words that I probably couldn't find in the dictionary fast enough, he was saying to me.

我当时‘哦’了一声，记得我助理也在场，她像是说‘我得走了’。

I was like, oh, and I remember I was sitting my assistant was there and she's like, I need to get along.

我说，好的。

I'm like, yeah.

把门关上。

Close the door.

于是她关上门，他就在那儿说着，嘿。

So she closes the door and he was like saying that, hey.

你在这儿多少年了？

You'll be here how many years?

我就说，嗯，你知道，大概十五年了。

I'm like, well, you know, like fifteen years.

你应该没问题的。

You should be fine.

我当时就在想，这事真发生在我身上了？

I'm like, is this happening to me?

然后我就问，你不想和克里斯蒂娜说话吗？

And so I'm like, do you you don't want to talk with Christina?

不知道。

Don't know.

你打错电话了。

You called the wrong number.

我当然想和你谈谈。

Of course I want to talk with you.

总之，我发现没人告诉我这件事，而且由于他在另一栋楼教学，我还发现这位教员明白自己的英语并不太好。

So anyways, I came to find out that nobody had told me this and again since he was teaching in another building, I came to find out that the the instructor understands that his English was not that good.

所以他决定——也没跟我提这事——他决定放关于阿富汗的电影，而不是教语言。

So he decided, and he didn't mention that to me, he decided to play movies about Afghanistan instead of teaching the language.

而这些家伙马上就要被部署到战区了，真是够了。

And here are these guys are going to deploy for war zone, hello.

他们都在问：这电影里放的是啥？

And they're like, what's in the movie here?

我又去问学生们：课上得怎么样？

Now again, I was asking the students and you know like how is it going?

但我还有其他很多课要上，没法去旁听。

And I had so many other classes that I couldn't go to observe.

我当时想：我准备给他...你看，我第一天去旁听了，因为要确保所有人都做了自我介绍。

So I'm like, I'm going to give him, you know, I went to observe the first day because I was making sure everybody was introduced.

第三天我去的时候一切正常。

Then I went the third day was fine.

但到了第四天，看起来一切都在按计划进行。

But then this fourth, it seemed like everything was going as planned.

不。

No.

长话短说，后来他说，听着。

Then he goes and so long story short, I said, listen.

我们需要冷静下来。

We need to calm down.

我说了，冷静下来。

I said, calm down.

我们要开始工作了。

We're going to work.

我们训练时不能看电影。

We cannot be watching movies in workout.

你说得完全正确。

So you're absolutely right.

让我看看这事会怎么发展。

So let me see how this is going to happen.

这要怎么解决呢？

How is this going to work out?

但他一直冲我吼叫，好像要解雇我似的。

But he kept shouting at me and shouting as if he was like, I want to fire you.

我会不惜一切代价把你解雇。

I'm going to do whatever I had to do to fire.

然后他又来找我，我依然保持专业态度，但他根本不让我说话。我说在谈其他事前，先告诉我他这样持续多少天了？

So then he got me and and again I was meeting very professional and all that, but he kept he couldn't even let me talk and this was I said okay before anything how many days has he done that?

他说今天...今天他放了部电影。

And he said today Today he put a movie.

我就说，好吧。

I'm like, okay.