超声波植入技术对抗胶质母细胞瘤：Michael Canney博士谈血脑屏障突破

我们已经测试过破坏血脑屏障的效果。

We've tested what we've disrupted the blood brain barrier.

医生。

Doctor.

索内本说，让我们看看这在人体中是否真的成立，因为人体可能非常不同。

Sonneben said, let's see if this really holds up in humans, because humans can be very different.

在临床前模型中进行的实验并不总能直接适用于人类。

Things you do in preclinical models don't always translate to humans.

他说，让我们看看能否实际测量药物在人脑中的吸收情况。

And he said, let's see if we can actually measure the drug uptake in the human brain.

于是他选取了参与我们部分临床试验的患者。

And so he took patients who are going on some of our clinical trials.

我们在患者实际进行切除手术前破坏了血脑屏障。

We disrupted the blood brain barrier before the patient actually had a resection.

基本上你可以想象将设备直接放置在脑部。

And so you can basically place the device, you can imagine, on the brain.

他启动设备，破坏血脑屏障，然后在手术室中进行了化疗。

He turns on the device, disrupts the blood brain barrier, and then gave a chemotherapy in the OR.

在这里你可以稍微降低剂量，因为病人需要从手术中恢复。

Here you can dose it a little bit lower dose because the patient has to recover from the surgery.

但你可以给予低剂量化疗后进行活检。

But you can give a low dose chemotherapy and then do biopsies.

你实际上可以直接测量超声波靶向区域和非靶向区域的药物浓度。

And you can actually measure directly what is the drug concentration in regions I've targeted with ultrasound and in regions I target with ultrasound.

他做了一些非常有趣的实验，因为我们还能使用这种示踪剂。

And some fascinating experiments he did because we also got to use this tracer.

他使用荧光素。

He uses fluorescein.

所以你可以用荧光示踪剂来成像你破坏的区域。

So you can use a fluorescent tracer to image what you disrupted.

这些图像真的令人难以置信。

And so really incredible images.

我们几年前在《柳叶刀·肿瘤学》上发表了他撰写的这篇文章。

We published these a few years ago in Lancet Oncology article that he wrote.

但你实际上可以亲眼看到，我已经破坏了血脑屏障，效果非常显著。

But you can actually see firsthand with your own eyes, I've disrupted the blood brain barrier, and it's very dramatic.

这太神奇了。

It's amazing.

我参与了他早期在手术室进行的一些实验。

I was there for some of the first experiments in the OR with him.

在进行活检时，你会取出本就要在切除手术中移除的脑组织片段，并实际测量药物浓度。

And then when you go into biopsy, you take out pieces of the brain you were going to remove anyways during the resection procedure, and you actually dose the drug.

然后你会问：经超声靶向区域的药物浓度是否高于非靶向区域？

And you say, Is there more drug in regions I targeted with ultrasound than regions I didn't target?

他的发现相当惊人——正如我所说，动物实验结果并不总能直接适用于人类——但他发现我们用于人脑的药物卡铂浓度增加了近六倍。

And what he found, which was pretty amazing because, like I said, the animal experiments don't always hold up directly in people, he saw almost a six fold increase in drug levels for this drug carboplatin that we're using in the human brain.

我们测试了两种不同药物：卡铂和另一种药物紫杉醇。

So we tested two different drugs, a carboplatin and another drug, which is a paclitaxel.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因此在两种情况下，药物浓度都出现了相当显著的提升。嗯。

And so on both cases, we had pretty significant increases in the drug concentration Mhmm.

通过破坏血脑屏障实现的。

From disrupting the blood brain barrier.

在这一过程中，你认为还有哪些需要克服的挑战？

What are the challenges that you still see that you need to overcome in this process?

是的。

Yeah.

确实存在许多挑战。

So there's a lot of challenges.

我认为首要挑战是证明我们的干预方案优于现有疗法。

I think, the first challenge that we have is to show that our intervention is better than what exists right now.

我们正在治疗的胶质母细胞瘤患者，目前正在招募首次复发的患者进入我们的三期临床试验。

Patients with glioblastoma that we're treating, we're taking patients right now on our phase three trial who had their first recurrence of glioblastoma.

这些患者已经接受过化疗、放疗和手术的初次治疗。

So they've already had a first treatment with chemotherapy, radiation, surgery.

当他们的肿瘤复发时，

They get a recurrence of their tumor.

就会加入我们的试验。

It's at that point that they come on our trial.

他们会被随机分配到接受我们的设备联合卡铂化疗，或接受手术加标准治疗方案组——标准方案是目前已知疗效甚微的几种药物之一。

They get randomized to either getting our device plus carboplatin chemotherapy, or they get randomized to getting surgery plus the standard of care, which is one of a couple other drugs that we know at this point very ineffective.

据我所知，其他一些药物的响应率甚至不到10%的患者会对它们产生反应。

I think the response rate of some of these other drugs is less than ten percent of patients who have a response to them.

但即便如此，这仍是证明某种疗法有效的审批基准。

But still, this is the bar for getting an approval for showing that something works.

因此我们将我们的治疗方案与标准护理进行比较，希望能证明它对患者比常规治疗更有效。

And so we're comparing our treatment against the standard of care and hopefully gonna show that it's better for these patients than what they would normally get.

现在想请我们的听众时光倒流回到您的过去，了解您是如何走到今天这一步，进行这些令人惊叹的临床试验的？

Would like now to bring our listeners back in time into your past and find out how did you get to this place where now you are conducting these amazing clinical trials?

您对神经科学的兴趣是如何发展起来的？

How did your interest in neuroscience in general develop?

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，你想让我回溯到多早的时候？

I mean, how far back do you want to go?

我们可以讨论。

We can can discuss.

越早越好，因为这就是故事本身。

As far as possible, because that's the story.

我认为这个过程非常鼓舞人心，也很有趣，能了解这些兴趣是如何发展的，职业生涯是如何展开的，以及人们如何成为现在的自己。

I think it's so inspirational and also interesting to learn how those interests develop and how does the career develop and people become who they are.

是什么影响了这些决定和职业道路？

What influences those decisions and career paths?

嗯。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

这么说吧，我家里并没有神经科学家之类的背景。

So I will say I don't have a family of neuroscientists or anything.

完全没有，但我从小就对数学和科学有着浓厚的兴趣。

Not any of that, but I didn't have a lot of interest in math and science, I think, from a a very early age.

后来我本科去了波士顿大学。

And I ended up going to Boston University for my undergrad.

我想我当时就明确要进入工程领域。

I I think I knew I wanted to go into engineering.

嗯。

Mhmm.

机缘巧合下，我在波士顿大学本科期间主修了机械工程，但同时我也想做研究。

I went and studied mechanical engineering as an undergrad at Boston University fortuitously, but I also wanted to do research.

于是在大三那年，我去找了其中一位教授，说我想参与研究。

And so thinking my junior senior year, I went to one of the faculty members, and I said, hey, I want to do research.

我能来你的实验室工作吗？

Can I come and work in your lab?

那时候很多教授确实都在从事超声波研究。

And many of the professors at that time were working and ultrasound research, really.

他们让我进了实验室。

They took me into the lab.

他们说，好啊。

They said, yeah.

这里有个项目。

Here's a project.

去做吧。

Go work on it.

我做了些研究，得以体验研究生的工作状态。

You know, I worked on it a little bit and got to see what it was like to be a grad student.

我有机会和一些总是很棒的毕业生们相处，他们容忍我在实验室里跟着他们，我觉得这很棒。

Got to hang out with some of the grad students that were always really awesome, and they put up with me hanging around with them in the lab, I think, which was great.

在那之后，这促使我去了研究生院。

After that, it led me to go to graduate school.

最初我在想，也许我只读个硕士。

Originally, was thinking, well, maybe I'll just go to a master's.

但我知道我想做得更多一点。

I knew I want to do a little bit more.

然后你开始看研究生项目，你会说，干脆去读个博士看看怎么样。

Then you kind of start looking at grad school programs, and you'd say, well, just go do a PhD and see how that goes.

所以我最终去了西雅图的华盛顿大学，他们那里有...

And so I ended up at the University of Washington in Seattle, and they have Yeah.

一个非常出色的中心，叫做工业与医学超声中心。

Really great center for it's called the Center for Industrial and Medical Ultrasound.

那里有位杰出的研究员叫拉里·克拉姆，他创立了这个声学超声研究实验室，我在那里完成了博士学业，学习了所有关于治疗性超声的知识，这是一段很棒的经历。

And there was a great researcher named Larry Crum who founded this lab of acoustics ultrasound research, I would say, and ended up doing my PhD there and learning all about therapeutic ultrasound and a great experience.

这还没完全涉及到神经部分，我想你问的是这个。

That's not quite to the neuro part, I think is what you asked about.

但这就是我如何进入超声波领域的。

But this is how I got wrapped up in the world of ultrasound.

我觉得去那里并发现'哇，超声波能做这么多新事情'非常令人兴奋。

I think it was pretty exciting to go there and say, Wow, all these new things you can do with ultrasound.

特别是对我而言，在医学领域，可能性似乎是无限的。

Especially for me, I think in the medical world, it was like the possibilities are endless.

能在这个领域深耕多年真的很棒，因为我们不断探索新事物。

And it's pretty amazing to have been in the field for a long time because we just keep exploring new things.

比如现在，我认为神经调控是超声波应用的一个巨大领域，刚刚兴起。

Like now, I think neuromodulation is a huge field with ultrasound that has just taken off.

许多新公司成立，该领域有大量惊人的研究。

A lot of new companies being founded, a lot of incredible research in that area.

但我在那里完成了博士学位，最后其实认识一些在法国运营实验室的人。

But I went and did my PhD there, and then at the end of it, I actually knew some people in France who ran a lab.

在里昂的这个名为INSERM的实验室里，有一位研究员，他们拥有一系列由政府资助的优秀研究实验室网络，涵盖各种课题，但里昂的这家尤其专注于治疗性超声波研究。

So one of the researchers in Lyon at this lab called INSERM, they have a network of really great government funded research labs that have all kinds of topics, but there's one in Lyon especially that specializes in therapeutic ultrasound.

他给我发了条消息说，嘿，这里有个博士后机会。

And he sent me a message, he said, hey, have a postdoc opportunity here.

你想不想来法国生活一段时间，看看这里并做些研究？

Do you want to come and live in France and check it out and do some research here?

我说，好啊，咱们走吧。

And I said, Sure, let's go.

于是我就去了法国做博士后，不久后发现，我参与的这个项目最初是与该实验室的学术合作，但很快就在法国转型成了一家初创公司，由我之前提到的那位神经外科医生Alexandre Carpentier创立。

Think I So I ended up in France for a postdoc, and shortly after that, found out that the project I was working on actually was project initially with an academic collaboration with this lab, but then it fairly quickly turned into a startup company in France, started by, as I mentioned, this neurosurgeon, Alexandre Carpentier.

他是一名神经外科医生，因此让我进入了神经学领域。

And so he is a neurosurgeon, so that got me into the neural world.

他想将超声波应用于神经外科手术中的不同治疗手段或药物递送等专门的神经学应用。

And he wanted to use ultrasound for different therapeutic things in neurosurgery or drug delivery and all these neuro applications specifically.

超声波最吸引你的是什么？

What fascinated you in ultrasound?

在你攻读博士和做博士后期间，你当时看到了什么潜力？

What potential did you see at the time when you were doing your PhD and then postdoc?

是啊。

Yeah.

这个问题很难回答。

That's a tough question to answer.

超声波有什么吸引我的地方？

What fascinated me about ultrasound?

不知道。

Don't know.

我觉得就是它打动了我。

I think it just spoke to me.

我私下也算是个音乐爱好者，所以和声学有种奇妙的共鸣。

I think I'm kind of a musician on the side as well, and so there's kind of this interplay with acoustics.

声学是个很广泛的领域，但能研究与你爱好相关的东西还挺有趣的。

Acoustics is a very general thing, but being able to do research and something you also have a hobby is kind of interesting, somewhat related.

嗯。

Mhmm.

至少我在超声领域发现，这里有一个非常令人惊叹的社群。

And what I found, at least in the ultrasound world, is there's this kind of amazing community.

我觉得这一点很快就显现出来了。

I think very quickly that was evident.

我有机会参加很多学术会议，最开始是通过美国声学学会。

I got to go to a lot of academic conferences, first through the Acoustical Society of America.

那是一个涵盖范围非常广泛的杰出组织。

It was a really amazing organization that's very broad in scope.

可以说任何与声学相关的内容都被囊括其中。

Would say anything acoustics is related is encompassed in that.

我参与学生委员会工作，得以参加所有这些会议，还担任过学生委员会主席，为学生组织活动，那段经历非常棒。

I went and participated in the student council and got to go to all these conferences and was president of the student council and ran events for students, and that was wonderful.

这是个很小的圈子，但大家都彼此认识，而且非常互相支持。

It's a very small community, but everyone knows each other and is very supportive.

你还提到你曾被邀请去法国做博士后。

And you also mentioned that you were invited to do a postdoc in France.

你需要具备哪些素质？

What qualities you need to possess?

需要掌握哪些知识才能获得邀请？

What knowledge to be invited?

你并没有主动申请这个职位。

You did not actively apply for the position.

是他们主动联系你的。

They just approached you.

你愿意来吗？

Would you come?

对于想提高被邀请（而非主动申请）机会的听众，你有什么建议？

What advice would you give to our listeners to increase their chances to be invited instead of applying?

是的，我认为每个实验室都在寻找优秀的博士后。

Yeah, I think that there's I think every lab is looking for good postdocs.

他们有资金支持。

They have funding.

每个实验室都在寻找优秀的博士后。

Every lab is looking for good postdocs.

同样也在寻找优秀的博士生。

And good PhD students for that matter.

如果你想更早开始，我认为就像我本科时那样，我的博士导师某种程度上是知道的，虽然我不确定他们当时是否在招收博士生，但他们还是同意了。

If you wanna start even before that, I think I as an undergrad that my PhD advisor kind of knew, and I don't know if they were even looking for PhD students, but they said, okay.

我们会为你找到资助的。

We'll find funding for you.

根据我的观察，博士后的情况几乎如出一辙。

And I think that the postdoc situation is almost the same from what I've seen.

我认为如果你对某个课题非常感兴趣且充满热情，并想在某个实验室做博士后，你可以给这些实验室的大多数PI发邮件，附上你的简历并表示：'嗨，我想来做博士后'。

I think if you are very interested and enthusiastic about a topic and want to do a postdoc in a lab, I think you can email most of the PIs from these labs and send them your resume and say, Hey, I want to come do a postdoc.

你可以在博士毕业前一年就联系他们，这样能提前告知意向，很多实验室届时会有资金支持或已经在招聘博士后了。

And you may do that a year before you finish your PhD, so you give them a heads up, and many labs will have funding or are already looking for postdocs.

或者他们可能会说，'你需要自带资金，但这里有些资助博士后研究的奖学金机会'。

Or maybe they say, Hey, you need to come with your own money, but here's some grant opportunities you can get for funding a postdoc.

所以我其实从美国声学学会获得了一些资金，我之前提到过。

So I actually did have some money from the Acoustical Society of America I mentioned.

他们有一个博士后奖学金项目，我申请并获得了，这帮助资助了我的博士后研究。

They had a fellowship, postdoctoral fellowship that applied for and got, and that helped, you know, fund my postdoc.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但这某种程度上让我可以做任何想做的研究，所以这也很棒。

But it was kind of allowed me to do whatever I wanted, so that was pretty awesome too.

据我理解，你可能在这个领域很活跃，因为你提到曾担任学生委员会主席。

Probably you were active in the field, as I understand, because you said you were an president of a student council.

你已经在通过积极行动和展现对领域的热情来定位自己。

You were already positioning yourself as being active, as being passionate about the field.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我认为我还受益于所在的实验室资金充足。

And I think I also benefited from I had a lab that was well funded.

我的实验室里，导师们真的...我是说，他们就像在说，你想参加多少会议就去多少。

I had a lab where our advisers really I mean, they were like, go to as many conferences as you want.

现在我才意识到这有多不寻常，因为我和一些博士生聊天时，他们说每年只能选一个会议参加。

Guess I realize how atypical that is because now I talk to PhD students that say, well, I have to pick one conference a year, and that's all I can do.

我觉得我们的导师总是持这种态度：哇。

And I think our my advisers were always like, wow.

去参加这些会议吧。

Go to these conferences.

我有时一年可能会参加两到四个会议，这既是很好的旅行机会，也是结识领域内不同人士的好方式。

I put maybe go to two, three, four a year sometimes, and it was like, great way to travel, great way to meet different people in the field.

所以这始终是段非常棒的经历。

So it was always just an awesome experience.

就像我说的，我得感谢他们允许我参加这么多活动，因为对大多数博士生来说这并不常见，但这是了解领域动态和结识同行的绝佳途径。

And like I said, I have to thank them for allowing me to do so much of that because it's not that typical for most PhD students, but it's a great way to see what's going on, meet people.

是的。

Yeah.

而且你充分利用了这些机会，这非常棒——在会议上交流、合作、建立人脉网络，同时了解新动态。

And you took an advantage of these opportunities, which was amazing, communicating, collaborating, building networks at those conferences in addition to learning about new things that are happening Yeah.

我还注意到一个非常有趣的现象，这对许多听众会很有参考价值，因为有很多人是从工程领域转入神经科技行业的。

And I also noticed one very interesting thing here that I think will be relevant to many people who are listening to us because we have people coming into the field of neurotech from engineering.

他们的问题是：要在神经科技项目中工作，我需要掌握多少神经科学知识？

And their question is, how much of neuroscience should I know to work on the projects in neurotech?

某种程度上你也面临过类似处境。

You were in a similar situation in a way.

你最初是从工程角度研究超声波，后来遇到神经外科医生，才开始接触神经科学相关的工作。

You were working with ultrasound, more from engineering perspective, and then you're meeting a neurosurgeon, and here the work related to neuroscience begins.

那么你是如何应对这种情况的？

So how did you approach this?

你是怎么学习的？

How did you learn?

你需要学习多少知识才能进入这个领域并取得成功？

How much did you need to learn to get into this work and work successfully?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为你提到了这个领域最酷的部分之一。

I think you touched on something that's maybe one of the most the coolest parts of the field.

我是说，你做任何事情都需要与经验丰富的人合作。

I mean, I guess anything you do, but is the ability to work with people where you really have great experience.

但我不会说我懂很多神经科学知识，我仍认为自己在这方面是个新手。

But I wouldn't say I knew much neuroscience, and I'm still consider myself a novice in most ways.

我还在学习。

I'm learning.

我正尽可能快地学习，不断阅读论文、努力提升。

I'm trying to learn as fast as I can, and you're always reading papers and trying to learn.

但你会尝试与专业互补的人合作，所以我们能与神经外科医生共事，尊重他们，通过沟通向他们学习、提问、获取他们的专业知识，而他们可能对超声波一无所知。

But you try to work with people who complement their specialties, and so we get to work with neurosurgeons, and we respect them, and we have a way of communicating and learning from them and asking questions and getting their expertise, and they don't know anything about ultrasound maybe.

所以两者结合会很强，你不需要成为自己领域的专家，但需要能够与人讨论学习，始终保持学习和开放的态度。

So the two together is strong, and you don't necessarily need to be the expert in your domain, but you need to just be able to discuss and learn from people and always be learning and open to that.

我认为这可能是最重要的部分。

And I think that's probably the most important part.

当你即将完成博士学位时，或者可能在读博期间甚至更早的时候，你是否已经考虑过要选择什么样的职业道路？

When you were already finishing your PhD or maybe during your PhD and probably even earlier, did you already think about what career path do you want to take?

是更学术化，成为PI并拥有自己的实验室，还是选择进入工业界——就像你最终做的那样？

Will it be more academic, becoming API and having your own lab, or rather taking a path in industry, which you ended up doing.

是吗？

Yes?

这对你来说是如何发展的？

How was it developing for you?

是的。

Yeah.

我想我从未真正把自己看作PI或教授。

I think I never really saw myself as a PI or a professor.

我也不知道为什么。

I don't know why.

那从来都不是让我感到兴奋或感兴趣的事情，我本应成为一名纯粹的研究人员。

That was never something that excited or interested supposed to become just a pure researcher.

我热爱研究，而且我觉得自己找到了某种平衡——既能与杰出的研究者合作并向他们学习，又不必申请NIH经费、为资金和所有这些持续的事务操心。

I love research, and I think somehow I found that balance because I get to collaborate with amazing researchers and benefit from learning from them, but I don't have to apply for NIH grants and worry about funding and all these things that are ongoing.

我的意思是，现在在美国学术界做研究压力非常大，至少在当前这种环境下。

I mean, it's very stressful, I think, right now to be a researcher in academia in The US, at least with everything going on.

我觉得自己总是走些迂回的路线。

I've always taken a little bit more of a circuitous route, I think.

我一直想住在国外，于是把博士后阶段当作实现这个目标的机会。

I always wanted to live in a foreign country, and I used the postdoc as an opportunity to do that.

我曾希望流利掌握另一门语言，但最终没能实现，始终没真正学会。

I wanted to be fluent in another language, which I wasn't, never really learned.

我觉得在美国，我们并不重视掌握另一门语言的能力。

In The US, I think we don't value being proficient in another language.

我们上过几节语言课，但从未真正精通过。

We take a few language classes, but we never really proficient.

所以我最终决定，好吧，我现在就利用博士后阶段来实现这个目标，通过在法国生活、在异国他乡生活，我基本掌握了流利的法语，那段经历非常棒。

And so I ended up saying, Well, I'm going do that now as a postdoc, and became fluent in French basically by living in France, living in a foreign country, and that was fantastic.

就职业发展轨迹而言，我觉得自己在这方面起步较晚。

I think as far as career trajectory, I think I've been late in having a well defined career trajectory.

我并不认为自己曾有过一条明确规划好的职业路径，比如‘这就是我要达到的目标’。

I don't think I necessarily had a path that says, Well, this isn't where I want to get to.

我认为只要能与有趣、激励人心的人共事，这才是最重要的部分。

I think as long as you're working with interesting, inspiring people, I think that's the most important part.

我不知道。

I don't know.

也许其他人会有不同的想法，会说想要达到下一个阶段。

Maybe people will function differently and say, want to get to this next step.

但我觉得只要持续学习就好。如果我们退一步看初创公司，会发现它很有趣，因为你的角色总是在不断演变。

But I think as long as you're continuously learning, and I think a startup company is interesting if we step back and look at a startup company because your role is always evolving.

我最初在实验室做实验，进行动物实验和编程，完成工程师的所有工作内容。随着你逐步了解监管流程、与临床医生合作、与临床事务团队协作，几乎每年都会进入新的工作岗位和角色。

I started out at the lab bench doing experiments and doing animal experiments and programming and doing all these things that you do as an engineer, and you grow through each stage through learning about the regulatory steps, through working with clinicians, working with clinical affairs teams, working every year almost it changes into a new job and role.

我认为任何职业最令人兴奋的部分就是不断学习新事物。

And I think that's the exciting part about any career, think, is always learning new things.

是的，这其实正是我想问的问题。

Yes, that actually was my question.

这些年你的职业生涯是如何发展的？

How did your career develop over those years?

你最初是从哪里起步的？

Where did you start?

你的初始职位是什么？

What was your initial position?

又是如何成为公司首席科学官的？

And how did you come to the place where you are already chief scientific officer in the company?

这一切对你来说是如何实现的？

How did this all work out for you?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

这段旅程相当精彩。

It's been quite a journey.

就像我提到的，最初是我和公司的另一位工程师作为首批两名员工一起工作。

It's it's as I mentioned, mean, it it started out really me and another engineer at the company were the first two hires, and we worked together.

他主要负责监管事务和对接不同供应商等工作，而我则负责设备测试，让第一代系统最初能用于人体，在临床前模型中验证安全性，然后为人体临床试验做好准备。我们当时团队非常精简。

He kind of managed a lot of the regulatory stuff and different suppliers and things, and I worked on testing the device and getting the the first generation system ready for using in humans originally and showing the safety in preclinical models and then then getting it ready for human clinical trials, and so we had a very small team.

大概就几个人，还有些实习生和其他临时成员，但就是靠着这样精干的团队启动了首项试验。

It was like a few people, and we had some interns, and we had some other people along the way, but a very lean team to get the first trial off the ground.

很幸运，正如我所说，我们得以借助法国那个实验室的资源。

We were lucky, really, to leverage, like I said, this lab in France.

某种程度上我们获得了孵化支持，能使用他们的设施和资源，并接触到他们的研究人员等，这对公司早期发展帮助巨大。

We kind of were able to get incubated a little bit and use their facilities, resources, and have access to their researchers and everything, which was also a big help in the early stages of the company.

我们的团队规模有所扩大。

We grew a little bit more.

作为初创公司，每次融资后团队都会有所增长。

As a startup, you grow each time you raise some more money.

资金让我们能多雇几个人，团队确实又扩大了一些。

It helps to pay a few more people, but we grew a little bit more.

我记得大约2014年我们进行了新一轮融资，并聘请了一位CEO。

I think around 2014 is when we raised some more money and hired a CEO.

在此之前有位代理CEO负责处理大量法律行政事务，但那时我们聘请了一位能全身心投入公司发展的CEO。

We had an acting CEO before that who helped with a lot of the legal administrative aspects, but we hired a CEO that was a little bit more 100% involved in the company at that point.

随后我们又聘用了首席临床官等几个关键职位来推动公司发展。

Then we hired Chief Clinical Officer and some other key positions in the company to grow further.

但State始终保持着精干的团队规模。

But still State is a very small team.

我的意思是，直到一年半前我们团队大概也就10到15人左右。

I mean, were, I don't know, 10 to 15 people until a year, year and a half ago.

可以说，团队成员都是多面手，并不局限于单一职责。

Just very, I would say, people who were able to do a lot of different things, weren't really specific to one task.

要知道，虽然大家各有专长，但在公司初创阶段，我认为需要的是至少愿意尝试任何工作的人，即使他们并不完全清楚具体怎么做。

You know, each had our area, but in the early stages of the company, I think you want people that are at least willing to take on anything, even if they don't really know how to do it.

随着公司发展，你会逐渐拥有更专业、在不同领域分工明确的团队。

And as you grow, you end up with people who are more specific and and working in various areas.

嗯，确实如此。

And so Mhmm.

现在我们团队规模已经相当庞大了。

Now we have quite a big team.

我想公司目前大概有30名员工。

We have 30 people now, I think, at the company.

我们在美国也有了更多团队成员。

We have many more people in The US.

而最初我们只是家法国公司，业务集中在里昂和巴黎地区。

We were just a French company focused in Lyon Lyon and Paris.

现在我们在美国有五人团队，这是个重大转变。

Now we have five people in The US, and so that's been a big transition.

公司从法语环境转变为英语环境。

It's going from a French speaking company to an English speaking company.

我们不得不要求法国团队使用英语，这带来很大变化，但进展顺利，团队很优秀。

We've had to impose English on the French team, which has been quite a change, but going smoothly, and it's a good team.

这是个非常棒的团队。

It's a great team.

这已经是个很不错的团队了。

That's a nice team already.

从创业初期到现在，你们遇到的最大挑战是什么？又是如何解决这些挑战的？

And what were the biggest challenges in this path that you went from the beginning until where you are now, and how were you able to solve those challenges?

最大的挑战啊...

The biggest challenges.

我是说，挑战实在太多了。

I mean, there's so many challenges.

这取决于你想让哪家特定运营商来维持公司资金运转。

It depends on what specific carrier you wanna is keeping the company funded.

还有监管层面的问题。

There's the regulatory aspects.

还有就是日常工作中，面对开发周期相当长的新技术时，如何保持对技术的热情。

There's the the day to day, I think, of staying excited about the technology as you have new technology as quite a long development time.

所以，你知道的，我认为持续保持热情始终是个挑战。

And so, you know, continuing to stay enthusiastic, I think, is is always a challenge.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但你总会遇到一些闪光点，比如看到患者康复得很好，这会给你新的鼓励。

But But you always get these kind of nuggets of things, like you'll see a patient do really well, and that will give you some new encouragement, I think.

不过确实，我认为我们面临过很多挑战。

But yeah, I think there's been a lot of challenges.

我觉得我们很幸运能招聘到一些非常优秀的人才，正是他们让我们的研发成为可能。

I think we've been really lucky to hire some really great people that have made our development possible.

因此我认为招聘合适的人才是最大的挑战之一，因为如果招错了人，你可能会陷入困境、感到沮丧，甚至面临人员流失。

And so I think hiring the right people is one of the biggest challenges, because if you hire the wrong people, you can get stuck, can get frustrated, you can have people leave.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但幸运的是，我们在发展过程中招聘到了一些优秀人才来壮大公司，这非常棒。

But we've been lucky to hire some great people along the way to build out the company, and that's that's been great.

这是个很好的话题，因为当然，正在收听我们节目的听众们也在申请希望能进入像你们这样的公司工作。

And that's a great topic because, of course, people who are also listening to us, they are applying for positions that they want to get into the companies like yours.

能否详细说说你们在寻找职位候选人时最看重哪些特质？

Can you tell a little bit more what are you looking for when you are searching for a candidate for a position?

你认为潜在候选人必须具备哪些关键素质？

What are the key things that you think are important in your potential candidates?

是的。

Yes.

这一直是我们关注的重点。

This has been a big focus.

过去一年我解雇了不少人。

I fired a lot in the past year.

我设立了一个新职位。

I've built out one role.

我具体说说。

I'll speak specifically.

我们设有临床应用专员这个职位。

We have clinical application specialists as the role.

我们安排人员现场确保设备植入或治疗操作正确执行。

So we have people on-site to make sure that someone implants their device or does a treatment, that they do it properly.

这是公司近几年为支持临床试验新设的岗位，像这样的大型试验需要配备许多类似职位。

And this was a role that was just created in our company in the past years to support our clinical trial, one of the many roles that you need, I think, to support a very large trial like this.

在这个过程中，我对招聘工作变得非常熟悉，因为我们面试了大量候选人，评估他们是否合适。

So along the way, I've gotten acquainted with hiring very intimately because we've been interviewing a lot of candidates and seeing would they be a good fit.

最重要的特质可能就是好奇心。

The most important thing is probably curiosity.

我是说，你需要那些充满好奇心的人，那些来面试时会提问、想要理解事物的人。

Mean, you want people who are curious, people who come to an interview and ask questions and want to understand things.

他们不需要理解所有事情，但必须保持好奇心，要对事物有兴趣并愿意学习，甚至能自主持续学习。

They don't need to understand everything, but they you need to be curious, and they wanna have an interest and wanna learn, continuously learn even on their own.

所以你不需要总是告诉别人说，嘿。

So you don't wanna have to tell someone, hey.

去读这个。

Go and read this.

去做这个。

Go and do this.

去做这个。

Go and do this.

但我们有些团队成员会主动来找我，表现得像，哇。

But we have team members who are coming to me and be like, woah.

你觉得这个怎么样？

What do think about this?

或者我看到了这篇论文。

Or I saw this paper.

你觉得这个怎么样？

What do you think about this?

我认为这种求知欲可能是你最需要寻找的第一品质。

And I think that kind of intellectual curiosity is probably the number one thing you wanna look for.

其次就是那些能主动做事的人。

And then after that, it's people who are self starters.

在初创公司里，你不可能真的监督每个人，给他们一份清单然后问：

In a start up company, you can't really monitor everyone and give them a checklist and say, hey.

这个你做完了吗？

Did you do this?

这个你做完了吗？

Did you do this?

这个你做完了吗？

Did you do this?

某种程度上，你需要依赖员工自主工作并完成任务，而不需要时刻监督他们，尤其是对于远程团队。

You kind of need to rely on people to work on their own and complete tasks and not have to really watch over them, especially with a remote team.

我的意思是，需要相信他们能够完成任务，即使你没有每天与他们沟通或跟进。

I mean, need to trust that they're gonna get things done even if you're not talking to them every day and following up with them.

这些是我考虑的一些因素，可能比较普遍。

So these are a few of the things I think about, and maybe general things.

我认为另一个因素是文化适配。

Think that the other thing is cultural.

你知道，我认为每家公司都有自己独特的文化氛围。

You know, there's always I think every company has their own culture a little bit.

作为一家源自法国的公司，我们有着独特的文化。所以还需要考虑：这个人是否也能很好地融入公司文化？

We have kind of a unique culture as a French origin company, I would say, And so you need to think about, is this person gonna be a good cultural fit for the company as well?

我认为这点很重要，否则这个人可能在公司不会开心，同事可能也会感到困扰。

And I think that's important because otherwise, I think the person isn't gonna be happy at the company, and, you know, the colleagues may be frustrated as well.

所以

So

是的。

Yes.

你认为这类技术领域未来会如何发展？

Where do you see the field of technologies like this is going?

或者说在技术发展如此迅猛的当下，我们在不久的将来还能看到哪些突破？

Or what we can see more in the near future as, right now, there is such a fast technological development?

对。

Yeah.

我认为如果我们回溯到整个治疗性超声领域，这或许是我们最初涉足的方向。嗯。

I think if we just back up to the whole field of therapeutic ultrasound, which is maybe where we somehow started Mhmm.

应用场景正在不断增加。

The number of applications is growing.

有一个

There's a

嗯。

Mhmm.

有一个名为Fuss基金会的组织，在提升整个技术领域的公关影响力方面做得非常出色。

There's an organization called the Fuss Foundation that has done a great job at getting more PR and things around this whole technology field.

但他们追踪了各公司获得的审批数量，结果令人难以置信。

But they've tracked the number of approvals that have happened in companies, and it's been incredible.

我是说，过去十年左右这个领域呈现爆炸式增长。

Mean, explosion in the past decade or so in this whole field.

我们看到FDA批准不断增加，新技术被广泛采用，整个领域正在快速发展。

So we're seeing FDA approvals, we're seeing adoption of new technologies, and so it's growing rapidly.

我认为在我们专注的特定领域——药物递送方面，我们仍处于早期阶段，目前还没有成熟的超声药物递送设备，至少据我所知是这样。

I think that for the field that we are working in, which is drug delivery in particular, we're just at the early stages, so there's no proof devices to do ultrasound based drug delivery, at least that I know of, maybe.

可能会因为遗漏某些信息而冒犯到别人，但确实有很多公司正在探索这个领域，我认为潜力巨大。

I'm going to offend someone if I miss something, but there's a lot of companies out there exploring this, and I think there's a lot of potential.

我们正处于将这项技术带给患者的最初阶段，一旦能展示出初步效果——我们正在进行三期临床试验，希望能证明这对患者有益。

So we're really just at the early stages of getting this to patients, and once we can show the first signals, we're running our phase three clinical trial, which will hopefully show that we can have a benefit for patients.

如果成功，我认为这仅仅是个开始，正如我所说，我们目前只结合了一种药物进行测试，但通过临床前合作和早期试验，我们正在探索各种治疗可能性。

And if we do, I think that's just the start because like I said, we're combining it with one drug, but we're also exploring through preclinical collaborations, through early stage trials, we're exploring all kinds of therapeutics.

我们提到过血脑屏障确实限制了治疗药物的通过。

So we mentioned how the blood brain barrier really limits what therapeutics can cross.

我是说，98%的药物都无法通过。嗯。

I mean, 98% of drugs can't get across Mhmm.

如果我们能向更多不同药物开放这个通道。

If we can open this to many more different drugs.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对我来说，未来的目标是治愈这种疾病。

Future for me is to cure this disease, think.

这就是我想说的。

That's what I would like to say.

如果我们能在我有生之年治愈这种疾病，那将是一个巨大的成功。

If we can cure this disease in my lifetime, it'll be a big success.

是的。

Yes.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

这正是你提到的驱动你帮助人们热情的事情之一，并最终在某一天彻底治愈这种疾病。

And this is one of the things that you mentioned that drives your passion to help people and lead to final cure of the disease at some point.

谈到这一可能的未来发展，你认为这一发展将为未来的职业选择开辟哪些可能性？那些来自工程学和神经科学领域的人们将如何定位自己？

Speaking about this possible future development, what options do you think this development opens in terms of careers where people in the future coming from engineering, coming from neuroscience, find themselves?

他们能做些什么？

What can they do?

他们如何为这一领域做出贡献？

How they can contribute to the field?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为职业选择的数量正在不断扩大。嗯。

I mean, I think the number of careers is just expanding Mhmm.

非常巨大。

Massively.

我认为随着这些技术获得采用和报销，随着我们看到公司取得成功，这将只会推动该领域更多的投资。

I think as we get adoption, as we get reimbursement for these technologies, as we see companies be successful, that only drives more investment in the field.

这意味着会有更多公司成立，更多初创企业涌现。

And that means more companies are going to get created, more startups get formed.

我认为，这一切都意味着在该领域会有更多就业机会。

That all means more job opportunities, I think, in the space.

随着我们的发展，这就像是一个不断强化的循环。

It's kind of a reinforcing cycle as we grow.

有大量公司正在涌现，不仅仅是在药物递送领域，正如我提到的，还包括治疗领域，可以说是替代手术。

There's a huge number of companies being created, not just in this drug delivery space, but as I mentioned, for therapeutic, I would say, replacing surgery.

这是许多公司正在深耕的一个重要领域。

That's a big area where companies are working in.

在神经调控方面，我们看到这个领域涌现了许多新公司。

And for neuromodulation, we're seeing a lot of companies get created in this space.

我们拭目以待。

We'll see.

我不知道。

I don't know.

可能会有其他新事物出现在地平线上，嗯。

There could be something else, something new that comes on the horizon Mhmm.

这会激发更多热情，而且这个领域还在持续发展。

That generates even more excitement, but it just keeps growing.

是的。

Yes.

就像你刚才说的，新事物不断涌现。

And as you just said, things come on the horizon.

越来越多的技术正在被研发出来。

There are more and more technologies that are being developed.

有什么特别激励你的事物吗？

Is there anything that inspires you?

有没有什么新进展让你对这个领域更加充满热情和好奇？

Any new developments that maybe make you even more passionate and curious about the field?

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，在我们从事的这个特定领域，最让我感到振奋的或许是精准医疗——我们能否确定患者对某种药物的反应？

I mean, I think for the specific area we're working in, I think that the thing that inspires me the most is maybe personalized medicine, can we figure out what patients respond to a drug?

我们能否为患者提供最佳药物，确保他们能产生疗效？

Can we give patients the best drug possible to ensure that they're going to have a response?

这正是我们正在研究的方向。

That's something we're working on.

我们知道大多数肿瘤药物并非对所有患者都有效。

We know that most oncology drugs don't work in every patient.

我们知道存在对治疗无反应的患者群体。

We know that there's patients who don't respond.

如果能将精准医疗领域的新进展与我们的药物递送技术相结合，我认为我们有可能取得重大突破。

And so if we can pair some of these developments that are happening in personalized medicine with our technology to deliver drugs, that's where I think we can get very big effect potentially.

而且我们知道当前AI技术正呈爆发式发展，它已经影响着神经科技领域的诸多方面。

And we know that we have an explosion of AI currently, and it already influences many areas of neurotechnologies.

人们正在开发语音神经假体，因为我们拥有这些庞大的自然语言模型。

People are developing speech neuroprosthesis because we have those huge natural language models.

你如何看待AI在你所从事领域的影响？

How do you see the impact of AI on the field that you are working in?

是的。

Yeah.

我最近一直在思考这个问题。

I've been thinking about this a little bit recently.

或许可以利用AI进行数据挖掘。

The ability maybe to mine data.

我们拥有大量数据。

I mean, we have a lot of data.

我们一直在数据中寻找不同的关联性。

We always search for different correlations in the data.

也许我们可以借助AI工具以不同的视角来分析这些数据。

Maybe we can use AI tools to look at it differently.

这大概就是主要方式，我认为。

That's probably the main way, I think.

最终，我想，我不确定，我们能否利用这些工具和所有可用数据来运行更高效的临床试验？

Eventually, I think, I don't know, can we use some of these tools and all the data available to run more efficient clinical trials?

这仍然是个悬而未决的问题。

That's still an open question.

希望这能成为现实。

Think something that hopefully will come about.

但目前，我们仍在进行临床试验，总是需要有一个对照组进行比较，接受标准治疗。

But right now, we're still running clinical trials where we always need to have a group that we're comparing it to and that's getting a standard of care treatment.

也许未来，我们可以用这些工具明确证明我们产生了效果，或者通过数据整合，用更少的治疗患者来展示效果。

Maybe in the future, we can use some of these tools to definitively say we're having an effect or I don't know, to bind the data and show an effect with less patients being treated.

我是说，这将会非常了不起。

I mean, this would be phenomenal.

是的。

Yes.

确实我们面前有很多机遇，

Definitely there are opportunities in front of us, And I would like to see the progression that you need to have in order to finally get your intervention approved and start working in the hospitals.

我很想了解你们需要经历怎样的发展过程，才能最终让你们的干预方案获得批准并在医院投入使用。

Maybe you can just give us a brief overview of how this process works.

也许你可以简要概述一下这个流程是如何运作的。

What do you need to go through to finally get from the place where you just started to the place where your intervention will be utilized in the hospitals worldwide?

从刚开始研发到最终让你们的干预方案在全球医院投入使用，你们需要经历哪些步骤？

Yeah.

是的。

So trial we're running, if we just step back from that, and the trial we're running is a phase three clinical trial, randomized clinical trial.

我们正在进行的试验——如果退一步来看——是一个三期随机临床试验。

Like I said, so we're using our device against standard of care.

就像我说的，我们正在用我们的设备与标准治疗方案进行对比。

The end goal is really to show if we're better than standard of care.

最终目标是要证明我们是否比标准治疗方案更有效。

And so the endpoint that we're using is to patients live longer.

不幸的是，正如我提到的，参加我们试验的复发性胶质母细胞瘤患者，大多数只能存活一年左右，一旦肿瘤复发，生存期非常短暂。

Unfortunately, like I mentioned, the patients with recurrent glioblastoma that come on our trial, most of them live about a year, so very short life once your tumor occurs.

因此，如果我们能证明我们的干预措施比标准治疗更能延长这些患者的寿命，那我们就可以向监管机构展示这一点，明确表示：看，我们能为患者带来益处。

And so if we can show that we can prolong the lifespan of these patients who get our intervention over the standard of care, that's something we can then show to the regulators, obviously, and say, hey, we can benefit patients.

我们已经证明了这一点，这将有望获得监管批准。

We've shown it, and that can lead to regulatory approval.

这就是我们所期望的。

So that's what we're hoping.

正如我所说，我们的试验规模相当大，横跨美国和欧洲。

Our trial is quite large, like I said, between The US and Europe.

我们有40个研究中心。

We have 40 centers.

我们正在招募500多名患者来验证这一效果，证明我们确实能对患者产生显著影响。

We're recruiting over 500 patients to show this effect, to show that we can actually have a significant impact on patients.

不过一旦我们做到这一点，实际上对这种疾病来说就相对容易了，因为这类疾病存在极高的未满足需求，目前针对这些患者的治疗确实缺乏创新方案。

Once we do that, though, it's pretty easy, actually, for a disease like this, I think, because there's such a high unmet need for this disease, because there haven't really been any many innovations for the treatment of these patients.

一旦我们能证明我们的疗法优于标准治疗，FDA应该会很快批准。

Once we can show that we're better than the standard of care, the FDA, I think, will approve it fairly quickly.

我认为欧洲监管机构的审批速度也会差不多，之后我们就能让更多患者用上这个疗法。

I think the European regulatory authorities will be about the same, and then we'll be able to bring it to more patients.

当然，获得批准只是第一步。

Obviously, once you get approval, that's just the first step.

之后还需要争取保险公司的报销覆盖，并实际推广到医院。

Then you need to work on getting it reimbursed by insurers and actually rolling it out to hospitals.

但目前我们正全力推进这项临床试验，重点证明其治疗效果，并争取获得FDA和欧洲监管机构的批准。

But we're just right now, we're really focused on running this trial and showing that we can have a therapeutic effect and getting regulatory approval from the FDA and the European authorities.

如果一切按计划进行，顺利获得所有审批和按时完成测试，您认为需要多长时间？

How long do you think it will take if everything goes by the plan and you get all the approvals and testing on time?

患者实际在临床环境中使用你们的设备或疗法还需要多久？

How long will it take for people to actually see your device, your approach in clinical settings?

确实很难给出确切时间。

Yeah, it's hard to say.

我们希望能在几年内完成试验招募工作，预计明年就能完成。

I think we're hoping within a few years we need to finish recruitment into our trial, which we're hoping to finish next year.

然后我们需要等待并观察足够多的患者结果，才能真正判断是否具有治疗效果。

And then we need to wait and see enough outcomes of patients before we can really see if it had a therapeutic effect.

一旦证实有效，审批流程可能会相当迅速。

So once that happens, we show that we had an effect, then approval process can go quite fast.

估计六到十二个月内就有可能获得批准。

Think in six to twelve months, you can potentially get approval.

希望在未来几年内实现，而且我们设计的试验方案也包含了对数据的早期观察。

Hopefully in the next few years, and I think we've designed our trial as well so we have some earlier looks at the data.

你总是试图寻找：我是否看到了有效信号？

You always try to see, do I have a signal?

是否能更早地发现一些迹象？

Do I have something going on earlier?

我们在试验中设置了中期分析环节，以便能更早地获取数据观察结果。

And we have some interim analyses built into our trial so we can get some of these earlier looks at the data.

如果数据看起来不错，那么我们可能会更快获得批准。

And if they look good, then maybe we'll get approval even sooner.

这太棒了。

That is amazing.

当然，我希望你们能尽快获得批准，从而大规模地帮助人们。

And, of course, I wish you to get it as soon as possible to start helping people on a large scale.

我们的播客名叫《神经载体：化不可能为可能》。

And our podcast is called Neurocarriers Doing the Impossible.

在你的职业生涯中，有什么让你觉得特别着迷的事情吗？对我来说这一切都令人着迷。

Is there anything in your career, which it's been fascinating to me, it is absolutely fascinating.

那么有没有什么事情你原本认为不可能，但最终证明是可行的？

So was there anything that you thought as being impossible that you actually proved to be possible?

你是怎么做到的？

And how did you do that?

哦，你这是在给我出难题啊。

Oh, you're putting me on the line here.

证明不可能之事

Proving the impossible.

早期对于使用植入式设备存在很多质疑

There's a lot of skepticism early on about using an implantable device.

我认为主要不是来自神经外科医生，而是来自工程师和研究人员群体的强烈怀疑

And so not among neurosurgeons, but among engineers and researchers had a lot of skepticism, I think.

我不会说这完全不可能，但当我们首次拿出安全性数据证明'看，这是可行的'时

I'm not going to say it was impossible, but I think that coming with the first safety data showing, hey, this is possible.

我们正在治疗患者

We're treating patients.

他们情况良好

They're doing fine.

没有出现大量不良反应

They're not having a lot of adverse events.

我们正在取得突破性进展

We're getting disruption.

它相对安全。

It's relatively safe.

这或许有点像是完成了一项不可能的任务。

This was a little bit of an impossible feat, maybe.

我认为即使在我们治疗第一位患者时，也非常令人紧张，因为我们虽然做了所有必要的安全验证，但你永远无法百分百确定。

And I think even when we treated the first patient, it was very nerve racking because we thought we did everything we needed to show it was safe, but you still never know.

想象一下开发一种新药，给首位患者用药时，只能祈祷并感叹我们无法预知结果。

I mean, you can imagine developing a new drug and dosing that first patient and crossing your fingers and saying, wow, we don't know what's gonna happen.

所以我认为克服这种不确定性绝对是项重大成就。

So I think overcoming that is definitely a huge thing.

是的。

Yes.

这让我想起我们第一次进行癫痫手术的情形。

It reminded me our first epilepsy surgery.

十三年前我们在这里新开设了综合癫痫外科手术中心。

Now we opened here a new center thirteen years ago, the Prehensive Epilepsy Surgery Program.

我们迎来了第一位患者，所有人都在场。

And we had our first patient and everybody was there.

整个团队都在围观，人特别多。

So many people just watching the whole team.

当然，我也在场。

And of course, I was there.

我至今记得面对第一位患者时的那种心情。

And I remember this feeling of the first patient.

手术会顺利吗？

How will it go?

这场手术会如何进展？

How will the surgery go?

现在我们配备了全套设备，都是崭新的。

Now we have all this equipment, you know, everything, new stuff.

这些设备能正常运作吗？

How will it work?

效果很好。

It worked well.

有那么一刻我们都停顿了一下，但一切都很顺利。

There was one moment when we all, like, paused, but everything went well.

我非常理解你对第一次的感受，但很高兴一切顺利，你也坚持下来了。

I understand your feeling about the first one very well, but I'm glad that it also went well and that you continued.

对于我们的听众，如果他们想追随你的脚步，走类似的职业道路，你会给他们什么建议？

And for our listeners, what would be your advice if they want to follow your footsteps and follow a similar career trajectory?

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，我认为首先要找到你感兴趣的东西。

I mean, I think I would say find out what interests you.

我会建议联系那些从事你感兴趣工作的实验室或公司。

I would say reach out to labs that are doing work that you're interested in, labs or companies.

我觉得两者都可以。

I think either one.

直接联系他人总是一个有趣的方式。

Just directly contacting people is always an interesting way to go.

我认为如果你打算做博士后，比如你联系一个实验室说‘嘿，我即将毕业，想在你们实验室做博士后’，我不认识多少会拒绝或态度消极的PI。

I think if you're going to do a postdoc, for example, and you reach out to a lab and say, Hey, I'm graduating, and I want to do a postdoc in your lab, don't I know many PIs that would say no or be negative.

我觉得很多PI都会想办法解决资金问题或找到让你加入的途径，因为他们会觉得‘哇，这个人很有主动性’。

I think a lot of PIs are going to find the money or find a way for you to come because they're saying, Wow, this person has initiative.

是他们主动联系我的。

They've contacted me.

他们确实很想参与进来。

They really want to come.

第一步可能是先确定你想去的方向，然后主动联系相关人员，和他们展开对话。

That's probably the first step is figure out where you wanna go and reach out to people and have a conversation with them.

就像你刚才提到的，要有自我驱动力。

And like you already mentioned, be self motivated.

是的，要对课题保持好奇心，这点非常重要。

Yes, be curious about the topic, which is very important.

这帮助很大。

It helps a lot.

另外根据你刚才的自我介绍，要在领域内保持活跃。

And also based on what you already told us about yourself, be active in the field.

多与人交流、建立人脉、参加活动、展示你的数据，这些绝对会对你大有裨益。

Talk to people, network, go to the events, present your data, and this definitely will help you tremendously.

非常感谢，Kenny医生。

Thank you very much, doctor Kenny.

随着我们的播客接近尾声，能否也分享一下听众可以从哪些渠道了解更多关于贵公司的信息、你们正在进行的临床试验，以及如果有共同兴趣或潜在合作机会时如何联系您？

And as we're nearing the end of our podcast, can you also share the information about where our listeners can learn more about your company, about the clinical trials you are running, and possibly contacting you if maybe there is some mutual interest or possible collaborative opportunities.

当然。

Sure.

好的。

Yeah.

我们有几个不同的网站。

So we have a few different websites.

关于我们针对复发性胶质母细胞瘤的三期试验的更多信息可在sonobird.eu上获取。

More information on our phase three trial in recurrent glioblastoma is available on sonobird.eu.

Sonobird是试验的缩写名称，是我们为试验想出的简称。

Sonobird is the acronym, you know, the short name we came up with for the trial.

Sonobird.eu上有关于该临床试验的更多信息。

Sonobird.eu has more information on the clinical trial.

关于公司的更多信息请访问我们的官网。

More information on the company is on our website.

官网地址是carthera.eu。

That's carthera.eu.

但如果你想及时了解新闻和各类活动动态，最好的方式可能是在LinkedIn上关注我们公司，因为我们经常发布研发进展和相关动态。

But probably the best way if you wanna stay informed about news and different events is probably to go on LinkedIn also and give the company a follow because we are always posting stories and different things going on in development.

这是让你的信息流及时获取最新进展的好方法。

So that's a great way to get that in your feed and be updated on what's happening.

好的。

Yes.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

我也推荐将LinkedIn作为社交平台，既能获取信息，又能保持联系。

I also recommend LinkedIn as a networking platform and keeping informed and, staying in touch.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我们会把这些信息都添加到播客笔记中，方便听众查阅。

And we will add all this information into our podcast notes so our listeners can find it.

我们讨论了很多问题。

We went through many questions.

非常感谢你如此耐心地回答了所有问题。

Thank you very much for so patiently answering all of them.

我对此深表感激。

I appreciate it.

在我们结束今天的播客之前，还有什么我没问到但你想补充的内容吗？

Is there anything maybe I didn't ask but you still want to mention before we end our podcast today?

没有。

No.

我觉得你的问题已经非常全面了。

You've think I think it was pretty comprehensive.

我认为你问到了所有该问的问题。

I think you asked all the questions.

所以我也想不出更多要补充的了。

So I can't think of much more.

我一直很好奇。

I've been curious.

非常感谢。

So thank you.

非常感谢您，医生。

Thank you very much, Doctor.

基亚尼。

Kiani.

与您交谈真是非常愉快。

It's been a true pleasure speaking to you.

我祝您一切顺利，相信我们的听众也和我一样，祝愿您的临床试验取得成功，帮助众多受这种严重疾病困扰的人们。

I wish you all the best and I'm sure our listeners are joining me on this wish for you to succeed in your clinical trials and help so many people with this really devastating condition.

谢谢。

Thank you.

是的。

Yeah.

非常感谢邀请我参加节目。

Thank you so much for having me on.

亲爱的Neuroparriers播客听众，感谢你们加入我和我出色的嘉宾们，共同探索神经科学和神经技术领域的职业发展之旅。

Dear Neuroparriers podcast listeners, thank you for joining me and my incredible guests on this exciting journey into careers in neuroscience and neurotechnologies.

我希望这些将突破性想法转化为有影响力现实的故事能激励你们。

I hope you've been inspired by the stories of those turning groundbreaking ideas into impactful realities.

如果你想获得更多关于发展神经科学职业的建议，可以预约与我的免费咨询，我是主持人K博士，同时也是神经科学职业教练，任职于神经科学方法研究院——唯一专门为神经科技领域专业人士提供职业服务的机构。

If you are looking for more guidance on advancing your neuro career, book a free consultation with me, doctor k, your podcast host and neuro careers coach at the Institute of Neuro Approaches, the only career service dedicated specifically to the needs of professionals in neurotech.

让我们一起迈出下一步，实现你在神经科学领域的职业成功。

Let's take the next step toward your neurocareer success together.

除了免费咨询外，神经途径研究所还提供多种服务，旨在帮助你在神经科技领域蓬勃发展。

In addition to free consultations, the Institute of Neuro Approaches offers a variety of services designed to help you thrive in neurotech.

第一，职业发展规划。

First, professional development planning.

我们帮助你制定个性化的职业发展计划，找出知识短板，并为你提供在神经科学与神经技术领域实现目标所需的工具。

We help you create a tailored career development plan, identify knowledge gaps, and equip you with the tools needed to achieve your goals in neuroscience and neurotechnologies.

第二，简历和求职信审核。

Second, a resume and cover letter review.

获取专家反馈，学习如何制作专门针对神经科技领域职位的申请文件。

Get expert feedback on how to craft documents that are specifically designed for job opportunities in the neurotech field.

第三，面试准备。

Third, interview preparation.

通过模拟面试和针对性反馈来提升你的面试技巧，包括软技能、神经科技硬技能、DCI、CEG、MEG、实时编程和演讲准备。

Sharpen your interview skills through mock interviews and targeted feedback including soft skills, hard skills in neurotech, DCI, CEG, MEG, live coding, and presentation preparation.

第四，人脉拓展与求职策略。

Four, networking and job search strategy.

学习如何在竞争激烈的神经科技就业市场中有效建立人脉并发现工作机会。

Learn how to effectively network and uncover job opportunities while standing out in the competitive neurotech job market.

第五，谈判与薪资建议。

Five, negotiation and salary advice.

获取专家指导，学习如何协商薪资福利，并确定您理想职位的合理薪资范围。

Receive expert guidance on negotiating salaries and benefits and determining a fair salary range for your desired position.

以上所有服务及更多内容，请访问www.neuroapproaches.org。

All this and more can be found at www.neuroapproaches.org.

再次强调，网址是www.neuroapproaches.org。

Again, www.neuroapproaches.org.

那您还在等什么呢？

So what are you waiting for?

让我们共同探索神经科技职业的成功之路，将不可能变为可能。

Let's navigate the path to success in the world of neurocarers together and turn the impossible into possible.

我们期待与您合作。

We're looking forward to working with you.