如何让你的大脑成为你最好的朋友

大家好。

Hello, everybody.

我是马歇尔·波。

This is Marshall Poe.

我是新书网络的创始人兼主编。

I'm the founder and editor of the New Books Network.

如果你正在听这个，你知道新书网络是全球最大的学术播客网络。

And if you're listening to this, you know that the NBN is the largest academic podcast network in the world.

我们拥有两百万的全球听众。

We reach a worldwide audience of 2,000,000 people.

你可能已经有一个播客，或者正在考虑开设一个播客。

You may have a podcast or you may be thinking about starting a podcast.

正如你所知，这会遇到一些挑战。

As you probably know, there are challenges.

基本上分为两种。

Basically, of two kinds.

一是技术问题。

One is technical.

你需要掌握一些知识，才能制作和发布你的播客。

There are things you have to know in order to get your podcast produced and distributed.

第二个问题是，也是最大的难题，你需要吸引听众。

And the second is, and this is the biggest problem, you need to get an audience.

在播客领域，建立听众群体是当今最难做到的事情。

Building an audience in podcasting is the hardest thing to do today.

请记住，我们在NBN推出了一项名为NBN Productions的服务。

Put this in mind, we at the NBM have started a service called NBN Productions.

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What we do is help you create a podcast, produce your podcast, distribute your podcast, and we host your podcast.

最重要的是，我们会将你的播客分发给NBN的听众群体。

Most importantly, what we do is we distribute your podcast to the NBN audience.

我们已经多次为许多学术播客提供过这项服务，我们很乐意帮助你。

We've done this many times with many academic podcasts, and we would like to help you.

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If you would be interested in talking to us about how we can help you with your podcast, please contact us.

请访问新书网络的首页，您会看到指向NBN制作的链接。

Just go to the front page of the New Books Network, and you will see a link to NBN productions.

点击它，填写表格，我们可以交流。

Click that, fill out the form, and we can talk.

欢迎来到新书网络。

Welcome to the New Books Network.

大家好，欢迎来到学术生活。

Hello, everyone, and welcome to academic life.

这是一个为您的学术旅程及更远目标打造的播客。

This is a podcast for your academic journey and beyond.

我是制作人兼主持人，格塞尔博士。

I'm the producer and your host, Doctor.

克里斯蒂娜·格塞尔。

Christina Gessler.

今天我非常高兴邀请到蕾切尔·巴尔，她是《如何让你的大脑成为你的优势：神经科学家的健康快乐生活指南》一书的作者。

And today I am so pleased to be joined by Rachel Barr, who is the author of How to Make Your Brain Your A Neuroscientist's Guide to a Healthier, Happier Life.

欢迎来到节目，蕾切尔。

Welcome to the show, Rachel.

你好，谢谢邀请我。

Hello, thanks for having me.

很高兴你来到这里，并愿意与我们分享你的书。

I am so glad that you're here and that you're going to share your book with us.

我非常享受阅读这本书的过程。

I have really enjoyed reading it.

不过在深入讨论之前，你能先介绍一下自己吗？

Before we dive into it, however, will you please tell us about yourself?

当然，我是蕾切尔。

Yeah, so I'm Rachel.

我最近写了一本书。

I recently wrote a book.

我也是一个神经科学家。

I'm also a neuroscientist.

和你一样，我非常热爱书籍。

And like you, a big, big lover of books.

所以，从我足够大能拿起书的那一刻起，我就一直知道自己想写一本书。

So I mean, I'd always known that I wanted to write a book ever since I was old enough to hold one.

然后，在我学术生涯的发展过程中，成为了一名科学家，我才意识到这本书的主题就应该是这个。

And then kind of moving my way through my academic career, becoming a scientist, realized it was going to be about that.

所以，是的。

So, yeah.

你在读研究生期间就写成了这本书，这真的非常令人钦佩。

And you wrote this book while a grad student, which is incredibly impressive.

当我意识到这一点时，光是知道这件事就让我觉得累，因为研究生生活本身就已经够辛苦了。

When I realized that I felt tired just knowing it because grad school is a lot all by itself.

当你回望那个年轻时的自己，那时你正展望未来想研究什么、想成为什么样的人，你当时就知道自己想从事科学吗？

When you think back to younger you who was looking ahead at what you wanted to study and where you wanted to end up, did you know you wanted to go into science?

你是怎么找到自己的道路的？

How did you figure out your path?

是的，我绝对不推荐在读博士期间写书。

Yeah, I certainly would not recommend writing a book while doing a PhD.

那真是太糟糕了。

That was horrendous.

而且他们总是给你一些可怕的截止日期。

And also, they always give you dreadful deadlines for stuff like that.

所以我只用了八个月就写完了这本书，几乎没怎么见过阳光，也没怎么睡觉。

So I ended up writing a book in eight months, barely saw the light of day or slept.

那是一段疯狂至极的时光。

It was a crazy, crazy time.

是的，年轻的我，说实话，我从没想过自己会上大学。

Yeah, so younger me, I mean, I didn't think I would ever go to university.

我刚才提到我一直想写书，但小时候你梦想远大，而生活会慢慢把那些梦想磨平一些。

I mean, I just mentioned the fact that I'd always wanted to write a book, but when you're a kid you dream big and then life sort of beats that out of you a bit.

而且，我现在已经有诊断了。

And mean, I have my diagnosis now.

我知道自己是自闭症患者，同时患有注意力缺陷多动障碍。

I know that I'm autistic and I have ADHD.

我现在知道了，但我在三十多岁才得到诊断。

I know that now, but I got my diagnosis in my thirties.

所以我在上学期间一直不知道自己大脑的这种情况，结果真的非常吃力，在学校里真的、真的挣扎得很厉害。

So I went through all of my schooling, not knowing that about my brain and really struggling as a result, really, really struggled at school.

这种大脑很特别，因为我热爱学习。

It's strange brain to have because I love learning.

我只想学习、阅读、写作和研究，做实验。

Like all I want to do is learn and read and write and study, do experiments.

我就想做这些。

That's all I want to do.

我是个非常好奇的人，但我的大脑与传统的教育环境并不契合。

I'm a very curious person, but my brain just isn't aligned with traditional educational context.

所以当时非常挣扎，觉得自己很笨，也就顺其自然了。

So really struggled, believed I was stupid and just kind of accepted my fate.

我以为自己这辈子不会有什么成就，也接受了这个事实。

I thought, know, I'm never going to do anything really with my life and had accepted it.

然后我想大概是23岁的时候，我开始了我的本科学业，比同龄人晚了一些。

And then I was I think it was 23 when I started my undergraduate degree, so a little bit later than my peers.

这是一个冲动的决定。

And it was an impulsive decision.

我只是对生活感到无比厌倦。

I was just so bored of life.

这是一个冲动的决定。

It was an impulsive decision.

我讨厌我的工作。

I hated my job.

当时我在零售行业工作。

I was working in retail at the time.

我有一位教练，是个私人健身教练，他教我如何进行力量训练，我对他说：‘嘿，克里斯，也许我会成为一名私人教练之类的。’他回答说：‘不，瑞秋，去上大学，拿个学位，保持选择的开放性，也许有一天你能训练顶尖运动员。’

I had like a coach, a personal trainer who was teaching me how to like power lift and had said to him: 'Yo Chris, maybe I'll become a personal trainer or something.' And he said: no, Rachel, go to university, do a degree, keep your options open and you might train elite athletes one day.

于是我心想，好吧，然后就在四周后直接上了大学。

So I thought, all right, and then just started university like four weeks later.

那正是促使我起步的契机。

And that was kind of what kick started me.

最初我学的是运动科学。

It was sports science initially.

我一路完成了那个学位，意识到它并不完全适合我，但其中也有一些我确实喜欢的内容。

And worked my way through that degree, understood that it wasn't quite the right subject for me, but there were things I did like about it.

我喜欢那些科学类的内容，于是决定把它作为通往硕士学位的跳板。

I liked the science y stuff and decided I would kind of use that as a stepping stone to a Master's.

我读过诺曼·道伊奇的《重塑大脑》。

Had read Norman Doidge's The Brain That Changes Itself.

我不确定你有没有翻过这本书。

I'm not sure if you've ever picked that book up.

你听说过这本书吗？

Have you heard of it?

我没读过，听起来很棒。

I haven't, it sounds great.

哦，这本书非常受欢迎。

Oh, it's very popular.

我觉得你会喜欢的。

I think you'd enjoy it.

他是一名医生，讲述了许多关于人们从严重中风中康复的故事，竟然超越了医生原本认为可能的恢复程度。

So he's a medical doctor and he tells all these stories about people healing their brains back from, you know, like terrible strokes somehow recovering beyond what doctors thought would be possible.

甚至有一位病人在经历失明后重新恢复了视力。

There's even a patient who kind of reclaims vision after bouts of blindness.

读到这些内容真是太令人惊叹了。

It was incredible to read that.

在那一刻，我的确对了解大脑很感兴趣，但还有另一个方面让我震惊：天啊，我原来不知道大脑是可以改变的。

And in this moment, I mean, of all, I clearly was interested in learning about the brain, but also there was this other element of it, which was like: God, I didn't know that brains could change.

也许我的大脑也能改变。

Like maybe my brain could change too.

那是我第一次想到：也许我并不是天生就愚笨。

Was kind of the first moment that I thought, well, maybe I'm not irreparably stupid.

我或许还是可以努力的。

I might be able to apply myself yet.

然后，我最终找到了一条通往分子神经科学硕士课程的路。

And then so yeah, then eventually found my way to a Master's course in molecular neuroscience.

从运动科学转向这个领域真的很难，但我很清楚，这就是我想学习的东西。

And it was a real slog going from sports science to that was tough, but it was clear to me that this was what I wanted to study.

这对我来说太令人兴奋了。

It was just so exciting for me.

对于还没读过这本书的听众，这本书是《如何让你的大脑成为你的盟友：一位神经科学家的健康快乐生活指南》。

For listeners who haven't gotten a copy of the book yet, the book is How to Make Your Brain Your A Neuroscientist's Guide to a Healthier, Happier Life.

你在书中提到过写这本书的灵感，但对于还没看过这本书的听众，你能描述一下这本书讲了什么，以及是什么促使你写它吗？

And you tell us a bit in the book about what inspired you to write it, but for listeners who haven't seen the book yet, can you describe what the book is about and what inspired you to write it?

是的，这里面有几个方面。

Yeah, so there's a few threads there.

首先，作为一名神经科学家，我注意到我们在社交媒体、播客等公共场合关于大脑、心理健康和福祉的许多讨论，往往与我对大脑的了解不符。

First, as a neuroscientist, I just kind of noticed that a lot of the conversations that we're having about the brain and mental health and wellness in social media, podcasts, you know, the public conversations about mental health don't tend to align with what I know about the brain.

这些讨论与我所了解的大脑知识大相径庭。

They're very at odds with what I know about the brain.

其次，从个人角度来说，我母亲的心理健康状况非常糟糕，最终她没能挺过来。

Then as a kind of more personal note, my mum really struggled with her mental health and in the end, like she didn't survive it.

我觉得自己有责任试着改变一下这种对话方式。

And yeah, I think I just felt compelled to sort of change the conversation a bit.

还有一种非常非理性的、人类面对生活中无意义且令人心碎的事件时的反应，就是你会想：‘不，我还能补救这件事。’

And there's also that like very irrational human response to something senseless and heartbreaking happening in your life where you're like, no, I can still fix this'.

你知道，我觉得书籍在某种程度上就像小小的时间机器。

You know, and I feel like books are like little time machines in their own way.

所以我认为，这是我与她对话的一种方式，是我想要告诉她所有我希望能教给她、关于如何照顾大脑、找到生活意义的话。

So I think it was my way, I think of having that conversation with her and saying all the things that I wish I could have taught her about taking care of her brain and finding reasons to live.

即使你患有终身精神疾病，许多人长期与慢性精神疾病共存，而这些疾病目前尚无治愈方法。

Even if you've got like a lifelong mental illness, which many people live with chronic mental illness for which there are no cures.

你该如何继续前行？

How do you move forward?

接下来怎么办？

Now what?

你该如何找到活下去的理由？

Like how do you find reasons to live?

因此，我想写一本关于自我关怀的书，一本反自助类的书，它并不想从你本已耗竭的身心中榨取更多利益，也不旨在让你更高效、更富生产力或更具市场竞争力。

And so I wanted to write a book about self care, kind of an anti self help book that is not interested in extracting yet more capital from your already drained body and mind or making you more productive, more efficient, making you more marketable.

它实际上是对自我优化文化的抵制，而这种文化最终并不能带给我们幸福。

It's like kind of a pushback against self optimisation culture, which doesn't ultimately make us happy.

这种文化并不能引领我们走向更充实的人生。

That that doesn't lead us to more fulfilling lives.

那么，大脑需要什么才能茁壮成长？

So it's about what does a brain need to thrive?

大脑在什么样的条件下进化出 thriving 的能力？

Like what are the conditions that the brain evolved to thrive in?

而在现代生活中，我们让大脑处于怎样的环境中？

And what are the conditions we're subjecting it to here in modern life?

你该如何在这种环境中前行，真正丰富你的生活，让你感到更充实，实现真正的个人成长，让你更贴近你所承载的人性，而不仅仅是提升在资本主义体系下的效率？

And how can you navigate that in a way that actually enriches your life, makes you feel more fulfilled and like real personal growth, Getting you closer to the human you inhabit, not just making it more productive in the capitalist sense.

你在第一章就直接切入了这个主题。

And you jump right into that in chapter one.

第一章名为《认识你自己：在优化时代重拾自我》。

Chapter one is called, Know Thyself, Reclaiming Identity in the Age of Optimization.

你通过向我们揭示大脑的真实运作方式，来反对优化文化。

And you push back against optimization in part by teaching us how our brain really works, how it really functions.

你邀请我们把大脑看作一块脂肪。

You invite us into seeing it as a hunk of fat.

而这块脂肪却是宇宙中最复杂的事物之一。

That's one of the most complex things in the universe.

你能帮我们理解一下基本的神经科学吗？这样我们就能与大脑合作，而不是与之对抗？

Can you take us into understanding our own basic neuroscience so we can work with our brain and not against it?

是的，我认为在这一章中，我首先明确的一点是，我们总以为自己完全掌控一切。

Yeah, so I think like the first, one of the first things I make clear in that chapter is that we like to think that we're in full control.

事实上，大脑中有大量我们无法察觉、不受我们意识控制的过程。

We, the conscious human hosts, but in fact like there's so much that goes on in the brain that is not visible to us, that we're not aware of, that is not under our conscious control.

可以说，大脑有自己的议程。

Like the brain has its own agenda, so to speak.

我们能控制的，只是我们向它提供什么。

We have control over is what we expose it to.

我们让它应对什么样的环境？

What are the conditions that we're asking it to navigate?

我们给它喂了什么？

What are we feeding it?

我们让它接触了什么？

What are we exposing it to?

在社交媒体时代，我知道说我们都在经历一种由社交媒体引发的身份危机并不新鲜。

And so like in the age of social media, I know it's not exactly new to say that we're all kind of having a social media induced identity crisis.

但我为这一观点增添了一个新的视角：我们实际上生活在一个伪装成社交空间的市场中。

But kind of new perspective I add to that is we're essentially existing in a marketplace that's masquerading as a social space.

人类，无论如何，天生就是社交的。

And humans, if nothing else, we're incurably social.

我们渴望表达自我、确立身份，这实际上根植于我们作为社会合作性动物的本性。

Like the fact that we want to express our identity and have our own identity is actually rooted in us being socially cooperative animals.

这是一种受到社会约束的过程。

It's like a socially constrained process.

我们需要向群体传递自己的价值，以免被排斥，因为在人类演化的大部分时间里，被排斥就意味着死亡。

We need to signal our utility to the tribe so that they don't exile us, which would mean which would have meant certain death throughout most of our evolution.

因此，身份正是由此而来。

So that's where identity comes from.

而在这个伪装成社交空间的市场中，我们所捕捉到的社会线索——社会学习是人类认知的基石。

And in this marketplace masquerading as a social space, the social cues that we're picking up on, like social learning is bedrock of human cognition.

我们并没有意识到，但一直在不知不觉中大量吸收并模仿这些社交线索。

We don't realise it, but we're just like gobbling up all those social cues all the time, implicitly and imitating them.

身份信号已经被商业利益所利用。

And identity signalling has kind of been co opted by commercial interests.

因此，我在那一章中举的例子是，如果想象一位古旧时代的猎人戴着一串用猎物牙齿串成的项链。

So the example I give in that chapter is if we think of like a paleolithic hunter wearing a necklace strung with the teeth of his prey.

那就是他在说：我是猎人。

Like that's him saying: know, I'm a hunter.

我能做出美味的猛犸象炖肉。

You know, I can make delicious mammoth stew.

别把我驱逐出去。

Don't exile me.

但这种身份信号源于与之相关的实际行动。

But that identity signalling, it comes from the acts of doing stuff that's related to that.

就像他真的出去练习狩猎一样。

It's like he really went out and practiced hunting.

所以，这种身份信号并不是因为它与他内心的感受相匹配。

So the identity signal, it's not it's like it matches how he feels on the inside.

他的内在身份认同与这种信号是一致的。

Like his internal sense of identity is congruent with that.

在社交媒体上，由于这些身份信号被商业利益所利用，我们对某些身份的联想也随之改变，比如我举的例子是，如果你关注的所有健康影响者都使用同一种高档瓶子，你就会开始将这种瓶子与健康行为本身联系起来。

On social media, because those identity signals have been co opted, what we associate with certain identities, like I think the example I gave was like if every wellness influencer you follow has the same fancy bottle, you begin to sort of associate that with the act of wellness.

因此，我们现在可以直接跳过过程，直接购买这些身份信号。

And so now we can kind of jump straight to buying the identity signals.

这就造成了一种身份眩晕感，因为我们拥有了这些信号，但内心却并没有真正感受到那种成就感或身份认同，因为我们没有真正去‘狩猎’，只是买了牙齿而已。

And that creates kind of a sense of like identity vertigo, because we've got signals, but internally we don't actually feel that sense of accomplishment, sense of identity, if we're not going out and doing the hunting and we're just buying the teeth instead.

第二个，我认为更普遍的问题则恰恰相反。

The second, I think more common problem is the opposite.

你是一个猎人，或者你是一名运动员，你真正地践行着健康生活，但你没有那个瓶子，因为你买不起，或者你不喜欢那些瓶子。

So you are a hunter, or like you are an athlete, you are living and breathing wellness, but you don't have a bottle because you can't afford it or you don't like those bottles.

于是你也会感受到类似的身份眩晕。

And you feel a similar like identity vertigo.

比如健身博主。

Know, like fitness influencers for example.

我的意思是，他们都超美，这不是在贬低他们。

I mean, they're all gorgeous, no shade to them.

他们都很好看。

They're all beautiful.

但不是每个运动员都长那样，你知道吧？

But not every athlete looks like that, you know?

不是每个运动员都长那样。

Not every athlete looks like that.

因此，我认为人们因为这一点以及许多其他例子，感到与自己非常疏离。

And so I think people are feeling really estranged from themselves because of that and so many other examples.

这不仅仅是所谓的‘精选时刻效应’，你知道的。

It's not just this I mean, people talk about the highlight reel effect, you know.

不只是这样。

It's not just that.

社交媒体上还有更多事情让我们感到与自己和他人疏离。

There's so much more going on on social media that is making us feel estranged from ourselves and from each other.

在每一章的末尾，你都提供了章节总结。

At the end of each chapter you offer a chapter summary.

在《认识你自己》这一章的末尾，你列出了一些内容，供人们深入思考，这些都是你为他们总结出来的。

At the end of Know Thyself, you give a number of things for people to really think about that you've summarized down for them.

其中一项叫做‘做科学家和实验对象’。

And one is called Be the Scientist and the Lab Rat.

你鼓励人们以实验的心态来对待个人成长。

And you encourage people to approach their personal growth with a mindset of experimentation.

你的建议是，他们在过程中记录自己的经历，留意哪些有效、哪些无效，并允许自己根据实际需求调整或放弃不适用的理念。

Your advice is that they keep track of experiences as they go along and note what works and what doesn't, and to give themselves permission to adapt and discard concepts when they prove unsuitable for your needs.

这些建议似乎与社交媒体上的建议恰恰相反。

This advice seems the opposite of what social media advice is.

你提到，作为社会性哺乳动物，我们看到这些现象后，最终会无意识地融入其中以求一致。

You're talking about as social mammals, we see these things and eventually unconsciously we fill the pool to conform.

而在这里，你要求我们真正退后一步，用自己的身体和感受作为衡量标准。

And here you're asking us to really take a step back and use our own body and our own feelings as a gauge.

是的，这是因为两个原因。

Yeah, it's because for two reasons.

因为即使是基于证据的建议，也不是对每个人都有效。

Because even evidence based advice, it doesn't work for everybody.

就像科学通常依赖于均值和平均值。

Like science operates often on means and averages.

例如，冥想和正念被充分证实是一种能有效减轻压力并普遍对心理健康产生积极影响的干预方式。

So as an example, meditation and mindfulness very well evidenced to be an intervention that successfully reduces stress and has positive effects for mental wellness on average.

但有一部分人，正念冥想反而会引发恐慌。

But there are a subset of people for whom mindfulness meditation induces panic.

它会引发恐慌发作。

Like it induces a panic attack.

如果你没有做好准备，还以为：不，不，不，科学家们都告诉我，这应该是有效的。

And if you're not prepared for that and you think: well, no, no, no, I've been told, the scientists have told me this is supposed to work.

你可能会强迫自己去经历一个根本不适合你的过程。

You can end up kind of forcing yourself through a process that just is not good for you.

我们被训练得远离自己的北极星，也就是我们对事物的真实感受。

You know, like we're trained to distance ourselves from our North Star, which is like, how do we actually feel about things?

人们早上醒来会先看应用，判断自己睡得好不好，而不是先问自己：我感觉休息好了吗？因为这就是我们被训练的方式。

You know, people will wake up in the morning and check an app to figure out like, if they've slept well before ever asking themselves, do I feel rested?' because that's kind of what we're trained for.

所以，即使是基于证据的建议，也很重要的是将其作为试验，看看你个人的反应如何。

So even with evidence based advice, it's important to just put things on trial and see how you, the individual, respond to it.

同样，这也能保护我们免受错误信息的影响，因为很多错误信息都是基于向你灌输一种你最终将其与自我认同绑定的生活方式。

Equally that protects us from misinformation because a lot of the misinformation sphere is predicated on feeding you a lifestyle that you end up attaching to your sense of identity.

当某件事与你的自我认同紧密相连时，你就很难放手。

And when something is attached to your sense of identity, identity, it's really hard to let go of.

一旦你把某种对你有害的干预或生活方式当作自我身份的一部分，再放弃它，就像截肢一样。

Like giving up an intervention or a lifestyle that's harming you after you've decided it's part of your identity, it's like an amputation.

明白吗？

Know?

所以把事情当作试验。

So put things on trial.

试着告诉自己：我会给这个方法一周或两周的时间。

Keep it like try to tell yourself: I'm going to give this one week or two.

做笔记。

Take notes.

如果你的新饮食方案导致每周七天都肠胃崩溃，那你就有证据了，可以明确说：‘这不适合我。’

And you know, if your new diet ends up in gastrointestinal Armageddon seven days a week, Like you have that evidence and you can say, this is not for me'.

你甚至不需要去判断它是基于证据的建议还是误导信息，因为这种做法能同样保护你免受两者的影响。

And you don't even have to figure out if it's evidence based or misinformation or not, because that practice protects you equally from both.

章节总结里还有几件事。

There are several more things on the chapter summary there.

一是控制你喂给野兽的东西，也就是谨慎选择你的环境，对你在线接触的内容保持高度选择性。

One is control what you feed the beast, which is choosing your surroundings with care and really being selective about what you're willing to expose yourself to in your online consumption.

以及你日常生活中所倾听的声音。

And the kinds of voices you listen to in your day to day life as well.

你鼓励人们远离市场，以认识到其中的大部分内容都是关于塑造一种以消费为导向的身份。

You encourage people to distance themselves from the marketplace to recognize that so much of it is about developing a consumer driven identity.

但这并不是我们的大脑所适应的。

And that's not what our brains are wired for.

如果我们希望他们健康，你提到要友善而非决定论，即承认每个人都会有自己独特的体验和反应，这正如你之前提到的，没有一种建议是适合所有人的。

If we want them to be healthy, you talk about being kind, not deterministic, which is acknowledging people are going to have their own individual experiences, responses, which you alluded to earlier about no advice is one size fits all.

即使是我们被告知无害的事情，比如冥想，如果你患有创伤后应激障碍，也会对你造成严重影响。

Even something that we're told that's benign, like meditation, if you have PTSD, will really do a number on you.

该章节总结中的最后一点是关于培养自我同情。

And one of the final things on that chapter summary is about cultivating self compassion.

这与在优化时代重新夺回自我身份的理念非常契合，因为有了自我同情，你邀请我们全面地了解自己，包括所有的缺点，而不加评判。

This really fits with the work of reclaiming your own identity in an age of optimization, because with that self compassion, you're inviting us to get to know ourselves, you say warts and all, without judgment.

在这里，你能够清晰地认识自己的优势，并为自己创造机会，以成长型思维面对失败，我认为这一点会深深打动这个受众，因为我们中的许多人一直被灌输失败是最终的。

And this is where you develop a clear understanding of your strengths and to give yourself opportunities to apply a growth mindset, particularly in the face of failure, which I think is something that will land well with this audience, because so many of us are told that failure is final.

如果我们以自我同情的态度对待它，就能将其转化为学习的契机。

And if we treat it with self compassion, we can use it as a learning ground.

失败的事情中蕴含着大量数据。

There's so much data in something that didn't work.

越是不成功，数据就越多。

And the more it didn't work, the more data there is.

我们需要对自己日常生活中的每一件事都保持这种自我同情。

And we just need this self compassion for just our approach of everything in our day to day.

对吗？

Is that right?

是的，你看，在科学领域，你真的会非常熟悉失败。

Yeah, look, mean, in science you really get well acquainted with failure.

从某种意义上说，这是一种很好的训练，因为正如你所说，那就是数据。

And in a sense it's good training because as you say, that's data.

科学的工作就是：测量、假设、实验、失败。

Like that's the work of science is, you know, measure, theorise, experiment, fail.

然后重复整个过程，以一种稍微不同的方式再次失败。

And then do the whole thing again and fail in a slightly new way.

这正是科学的全部意义所在，某种程度上是在缩小范围。

That's like what science is all about, kind of narrowing the scope.

是的，我会在自我同情和自尊之间做出区分。

Yeah, I make a distinction between self compassion and self esteem.

自尊被宣传为我们抵御生活打击的盔甲。

Self esteem is marketed to us as our armour from life's slings and arrows.

但事实上，自尊是不稳定的。

But actually like self esteem is wobbly.

它会每天变化，取决于你最近的境况如何。

It changes day to day depending on how well things are going for you.

你的自尊感实际上会随着你最近失败的次数而大幅波动。

Your sense of self esteem actually is very variable depending on how much you're failing lately.

它对社交失败尤其敏感。

It's particularly receptive to social failures.

它就像一个小小的社交计量器，真的。

It's kind of like a little sociometer, really.

你对别人如何回应你没有任何控制权。

And you don't have any control over that, like how people respond to you.

你确实完全无法控制这一点。

You simply don't have any control over that.

就像你提到的，我之前说的那种清醒的决定论观点，就是针对这一点的。

And like you mentioned the kind of sober deterministic point that I made, it was in relation to that.

大脑就像一台小小的预测机器。

So the brain is like a little prediction machine.

它在任何给定时刻对现实的感受。

It's sense of reality, like any given moment.

你所体验的大部分内容实际上是大脑的幻觉。

So much of what you're experiencing is actually like the brain's hallucination.

它并不会接收环境中所有的感官数据，因为那样成本太高了。

It's not taking all of the sensory data from the environment because that would just be too costly.

它只取其中一部分，然后基于已收集的数据做出推断，预测其余部分。

It takes some of it and then just kind of makes inferences, predicting the rest based on data that's already collected.

而它之所以能这么做，是因为它具备一种称为预测误差信号的机制。

Now, the way that it gets away with that is that it has what's called prediction error signalling.

如果某事物与它的预测不符，就会产生微小的预测误差，从而更新它对世界的模型。

So if something deviates from what it predicted, then there are little prediction errors and it updates its model of the world.

因此，我们有奖励预测误差，由多巴胺信号介导。

So we have this, we have reward prediction errors with dopamine signalling.

这种机制贯穿于我们所有的认知过程之中。

We have cognitive, like it's threaded throughout all of our cognition.

而在这里，我们有一个社会预测误差，那就是自尊。

And here we have a social prediction error, which is self esteem.

所以，如果你讲了个笑话却没人笑，你的自尊就会更新你对自身社会价值的模型，也就是自尊。

So if you crack a joke and it falls flat, your self esteem you update your model, your social model of your value, which is self esteem.

对某些人来说，这些预测误差的反应更强烈。

And for some people, those prediction errors are more reactive.

因此，我们观察到INSUA和MPFC区域有更强的反应，前者类似于疼痛信号，而后者则像是你身份认同的首席执行官。

So we see a stronger response from the INSUA and the MPFC, which is like the pain signal and the MPFC, which is kind of like the CEO of your identity.

我们发现，自我价值感较低的人群中，这种信号更强。

We see a stronger signal in people with lower self esteem.

对某些人来说，他们的大脑更擅长编码这些负面预测误差，却不太擅长编码像你讲了个笑话，本没指望有人笑，结果全场哄堂大笑并邀请你参加生日派对这样的情况——他们的大脑反应并没有那么强烈。

And for some people, their brains are better at encoding those negative prediction errors and are not very good at encoding like you crack a joke and you're not expecting much and everybody's howling and inviting you to their birthday party, their brain just doesn't respond quite as much.

那里存在一种负面偏向。

There's kind of like a negative bias there.

你无法选择自己拥有的大脑。

So you can't choose the brain that you have.

对某些人来说，社交拒绝带来的打击非常沉重。

Like for some people, those social rejections hit really hard.

从神经生物学角度看，这不仅仅是心理问题，也不是单纯靠意志力就能克服的。

Like neurobiologically, you know, it's not just psychological, it's not about having resilience of character.

对某些人来说，他们的大脑反应方式是不同的。

Like for some people, their brains are responding differently.

我认为，意识到这一点非常重要。

And I think it's important that you are aware of that.

你的现实和我的不一样。

Like your reality is not the same as mine.

我们每个人都活在不同的现实中。

We're all living in different realities.

然而，这就引出了决定论的问题。

However, this is where the deterministic thing comes in.

假设你的大脑最糟糕的情况也同样无益。

It's equally unhelpful to assume the worst of your brain.

大脑就像人一样，当我们不被期待最坏结果时，我们往往表现得更好。

Brains like people, we tend to respond better when, you know, people aren't expecting the worst of us.

乐观实际上在这里有好处。

Optimism actually has a benefit there.

你永远无法真正知道你的大脑在做什么，大脑内部究竟发生了什么。

So you can never really know what your brain is doing, what's going on inside your brain.

假设最坏情况是没有帮助的。

Unhelpful to assume the worst.

但我认为，对自己保持慈悲很重要，要明白你所处的现实与他人并不相同。

But I think it helps to be compassionate with yourself, to know that you're not living the same reality as everyone else.

但同时也要坚持一种信念：改变是可能的。

But also to hold on to the sense of agency that change is possible.

我认为这在生活的各个方面以及心理健康中都至关重要。

I think that's really important in all aspects of life and mental health.

我们一直在讨论第一章，其中还涉及大量关于大脑运作机制的神经科学内容，以及如何与大脑协同而非对抗。

We've been talking about chapter one and there's quite a bit more about the neuroscience of how the brain works and how you can work with it and not against it.

第二章名为《当生活看似无望时，点燃喜悦》。

Chapter two is called When Life Feels Impossible, Turn On Delight.

在这一章中，你邀请我们关注那些喜悦时刻的重要性。

In that chapter, you invite us into the importance of moments of delight.

你还告诉我们，你受到了诗人罗斯凯的影响。

And you tell us you were influenced by the poet, Roskay.

是的。

Yeah.

你如何在自己的生活中真正运用这一点，以及愉悦的价值。

And how you've really used this in your own life and the value of delight.

你是一位科学家，请为我们解释一下，因为当我告诉别人时，他们仍然认为愉悦是可有可无的，而我不认为愉悦是可有可无的。

You are a scientist, please explain this to us, because when I tell people about it, they still believe delight is optional and I do not believe having delight is optional.

是的，实际上，一旦有机会，我就想把愉悦带进实验室。

Yeah, so actually, when I get a bit of a chance, I would like to take delight into the lab.

目前专门关于愉悦的研究并不多，但在撰写这一章时，我将愉悦分解成了它的组成部分。

There isn't really much research specifically on delight, but in the writing of that chapter what I did was break delight down into its constituent parts.

从那里，我能够借鉴相关研究。

And from there I was able to kind of pull from the research.

但确实，我相信愉悦是一种重要的生命体验，原因有几点。

But yeah, I believe that delight is an important human experience for several reasons.

首先是，你知道，生活压力很大，而我们现代人不幸地要应对慢性压力，而我们的身体其实并不适应这种压力。

The first is, you know, life is very stressful and we modern humans unfortunately have to do with chronic stress, which we're not really built for.

我们可以应对压力，但慢性压力会让我们在生理上开始崩溃。

We can manage stress, but chronic stress, we can physiologically start to break down.

慢性压力会导致各种心理和生理健康问题。

There are all kinds of mental and physical health problems that arise from chronic stress.

不幸的是，在大脑中，慢性压力会让我们更容易受到慢性压力的影响。

And unfortunately in the brain, chronic stress makes us more susceptible to chronic stress.

在海马体中存在着一些类似刹车片的结构，当HPA轴——也就是你大脑的压力反应团队——启动压力反应后，肾上腺会释放皮质醇，引发压力反应，而这些信号会反馈回去。

They're kind of little brake pads in the hippocampus largely that once the HPE access, which is kind of your brain stress response team, once they've initiated the stress response and then you release cortisol from the adrenal glands and have your stress response, that feeds its way back up.

这些海马体中的刹车片本应感知到：‘嗯，我闻到了压力激素，看来我们已经成功启动了压力反应。’

And these brake pads in the hippocampus are supposed to sense that like, all right, I'm smelling some stress hormone, seems like we successfully deployed that stress response.

现在该让大脑和身体恢复平静状态了。

Let's usher the brain and body back to a state of calm.

我们大概已经逃开了那头剑齿虎了吧。

We've probably escaped that saber tooth tiger by now.

如果没有其他感官信号继续维持压力反应，比如看到剑齿虎的影像，那么你的压力反应确实会逐渐平息。

And if there's no other sensory signals to keep that stress response going, like say, the sight of the saber tooth tiger, then indeed your stress response will start to wind down.

但就像汽车的刹车片一样，它们也会因长期压力而磨损。

But like your car brake pads, they can wear out from chronic stress.

于是，你可能会陷入一种永无止境的压力循环，没有任何东西能真正让你停下来。

And so then you can end up in this kind of like never ending cycle of stress with nothing really to stop you.

所以我们必须手动踩下刹车。

And so we've got to like manually stop the car instead.

而那些微小的愉悦体验，恰恰是能够实现这一目标的完美尺寸和形态。

And little tiny little experiences of delight are exactly the right shape and size to be able to do that.

我提倡在一天中多次微量地体验愉悦，因为等到周末或假期才进行大规模的放松是没用的。

I talk about micro dosing delight throughout the day, because it's no good to wait until the weekend or your vacation for like big sporadic dumps of relaxation.

我甚至不确定把放松留到晚上是个好主意。

I'm not even sure it's a good idea to leave it to the evening.

我们需要在一天中频繁地、小幅度地多次踩下压力反应的刹车。

We need to push the brakes on that stress response little and often, frequently throughout the day.

因此，我认为这些微小的愉悦体验能非常有效地向大脑中的HPA轴传递信息：我们没有危险。

And so I think little experiences of delay very successfully tell the HP axis in the brain like, we're not in danger.

该放松了。

Time to calm down.

第二个原因是生活很艰难。

The second reason is life is tough.

我们并不总是快乐的。

We're not always happy.

快乐是一种长期的感受。

Happy is kind of a long term feeling.

生活中有些时候我们并不快乐，比如在哀悼或经历分手时。

There are times of life where we're not happy, when we're grieving or going through a breakup.

你并不快乐。

You're not happy.

你知道吗，当你身处这样的境地时，该如何保持希望？

And you know, like how do you hold on to hope?

当你经历这些时，该如何让自己不沉沦？

How do you keep your head above water when you're going through that?

有时，经历这样的时刻，有些人会选择结束生命，因为感觉这一切根本无法逃脱。

Sometimes like going through those kinds of experiences, that sometimes when people choose to die because it just feels so inescapable.

当你深陷悲痛之中时，你几乎忘记了不感到哀伤是什么感觉。

You forget really what it's like to not feel bereaved when you're in the thick of it.

喜悦是那些短暂而微小的体验，它们提醒你生活值得继续，让你暂时从自我厌恶的感觉中解脱出来。

Delight are these like small transient experiences that kind of remind you that life is worth living, gives you a brief reprieve from feeling like rubbish.

而喜悦的特点往往在于它将你与动物、他人以及地球联系在一起。

And the thing about delight tends to be something that like tethers you to animals, to other people, to the planet.

它让你重新与悲痛之外的事物建立连接，并提醒你生活或许真的值得活下去。

It like reconnects you to something outside of your grief and reminds you that life might actually be worth living.

问题是，我们实际上没有一种机制能促使我们主动去寻找喜悦。

The trouble is, we have no mechanism really to drive us to go and seek delight out.

你知道，我们并不会像渴望享乐快感那样渴望喜悦。

You know, it's not like we crave delight in the way that we crave hedonic pleasures.

而且我们也不会因为恐惧或回避而被驱使去追求它。

And also we're not driven towards it with like fear based aversion.

因此，是否能在每天中腾出空间和时间，全靠我们自己。

So again, it's up to us to carve out space and time during each day.

比如，去猫咪咖啡馆吃午餐。

Like take your lunch break in a cat cafe.

早上喝咖啡时到外面去，看看松鼠如何在鸟食器上演一场精心策划的‘大盗行动’之类的。

Take your morning coffee break outside and watch the squirrels perform you know, an elaborate heist on the bird feeder or something.

给自己创造一些容易发生愉悦感的环境，并留心观察，以便当愉悦出现时你能及时捕捉到。

Like give yourself take yourself to spaces where delight is likely to happen and pay attention so that you're ready to catch it if it appears.

在第15页，你为人们剖析了‘愉悦’的含义，因为我觉得我们每个人都会赋予它自己的定义。

And on page 15, you break down delight for people because I think we can attach our own definition to it.

我认为对很多人来说，这有点过于夸张了——回到我们之前关于社交媒体的讨论。

And I think for many people, it's kind of an over the top, to go back to our earlier talks about social media.

作为社交媒体的消费者，我们已经放大了每一种情绪应有的表现程度。

We've kind of amplified what every emotion should be through being social media consumers.

而‘愉悦’则把我们带回了你所描述的那些简单时刻。

And Delight takes us back into really the simplicity of these moments that you're talking about.

所以，在第50页，对于听众来说，它将其分解为第一点：享受。

So on page 50, for listeners, it breaks it down and it's one is enjoyment.

简单来说，愉悦让人感觉良好。

Quite simply, delight feels good.

另一个是关注当下。

Another is attention to the present.

鉴于愉悦的自发性，发现它需要保持清醒的意识，专注于当前的时刻。

Given the spontaneous nature of delight, finding it requires a presence of mind, paying attention to the current moment.

另一个是反思与感恩。

Another is reflection and gratitude.

感恩通常涉及认识到并珍惜那些容易被忽视的事物。

Gratitude is often about recognizing and valuing what can easily be taken for granted.

同样，愉悦通常出现在日常生活中那些平凡的时刻。

Similarly, delight typically finds its place in the otherwise mundane moments of everyday life.

最后是联结。

And finally, connectedness.

愉悦将我们与某种事物联系起来，无论是与自己、他人、动物，还是与我们所处的世界。

Delight tethers us to something, whether it's to ourselves, to others, to animals, or to the world we inhabit.

听众可以在每章末尾的章节摘要中找到更多内容。

And listeners can find more in the chapter summaries at the end of each chapter.

关于愉悦及其所是与所非，还有更多内容。

There's more about delight and what it is and isn't.

第三章带我们进入神经科学领域，探讨我们为何彼此相遇。

Chapter three takes us into the neuroscience of why we meet each other.

第四章名为‘我睡，故我在’。

Chapter four is called I sleep, therefore I am.

我们即将接近本次对话的尾声，但第四章中有一件非常重要的事，我希望你能与听众分享：那就是在入睡前的片刻学习。无论你当天经历了什么，都不要否定那些艰难的时刻，而是要将自我同情或有意义的反思与之联系起来。

We're coming close to the end of our time together, but there's something really important in chapter four that I'd love for you to share with listeners, which is this, moment of learning we can do right before we fall asleep, where you encourage people no matter what their day was like, not to invalidate, if you had very difficult things in that day, but to also attach moments of self compassion or meaningful reflection to it.

你还谈到，入睡前的这些时刻不仅能积极重塑我们的大脑，还能帮助我们以更健康的方式前行。

And you talk about how these moments before we go to sleep can really positively not only reshape our brain, but help us as we move forward in a more healthy way.

是的，很高兴你提到了这一点。

Yeah, I'm glad you've picked out that.

我整个研究生涯都专注于睡眠。

Most of my research career has been in sleep.

所以我真的很想把这个章节写好，但听起来是不是很无聊？

So I really wanted to do that chapter justice and it's like boring, isn't it?

被人告诉去睡觉、休息。

To be told to go to bed and sleep.

我认为它没有得到应有的重视。

I don't think it gets the credit it deserves.

从神经生物学的角度来说，睡眠是不可思议的。

It's like neurobiologically speaking, sleep is incredible.

这非常奇妙、奇特且令人兴奋，是一种独特的心理状态。

It's amazing, very strange and exciting like mental state to be in.

是的，我谈到睡眠是我们被塑造的地方。

And yeah, I talk about how sleep is where you were made.

我们出生时就已经拥有了这辈子大部分的神经元。

We're born with most of the neurons we'll ever have.

而这一切发生在产前睡眠中，就在你来到这个世界前的几周。

And it's in prenatal sleep, a couple of few weeks before your entry to life on earth.