47. 懒惰真的存在吗？

请问你有什么心理技巧吗？

Do you have any mind tricks, please?

我是安吉拉·达克沃斯。

I'm Angela Duckworth.

我是史蒂文·杜布纳。

I'm Steven Dubner.

您现在收听的是《没有愚蠢问题》节目。

And you're listening to no stupid questions.

今天节目的主题是：懒惰是否是个伪概念？

Today on the show, is laziness a false concept?

有时候作业真的是被狗吃掉了。

Sometimes a dog really did eat your homework.

对吧？

Okay?

还有，为什么我们独自在公共场所时会感到如此不自在？

Also, why do we feel so uncomfortable spending time alone in public places?

门票要几张？

Tickets, how many?

只要一张，先生。

Just one, please, sir.

安吉拉，有位叫苏珊·肯普的听众提了个问题。

Angela, a question from a listener named Susan Kemp.

至少这是她写信时用的名字

At least that's the name she's using to write

对我们来说。

to us under.

可能是个化名。

Could be a pseudonym.

据我们所知，可能是安吉拉·达克沃斯。

Might be Angela Duckworth for all we know.

引用苏珊·坎普的话来提问。

Quote Susan Kemp has this to ask.

你认为懒惰真的存在吗？

Do you think laziness is really a thing?

她写道。

She writes.

过去一年里，我一直在思考懒惰是否真实存在，还是我们为了某种目的——比如用新教式的负罪感鞭策自己做事——而创造出来的概念。

For the last year, I've been debating if laziness is real or just some concept we created in order to, I don't know, protestant guilt trip ourselves into doing things.

我已经喜欢上苏珊了。

I like Susan already.

假设有人不做作业。

Say that someone doesn't do their homework.

也许他们患有未确诊的睡眠障碍或长期睡眠不足，所以才无法集中注意力。

Maybe they have an undiagnosed sleep disorder or are chronically sleep deprived, and that's why they can't focus.

也许他们的饮食不规律，所以感到疲倦。

Maybe their diet is off, so they're tired.

也许他们只是因为学校早上7:30就开始上课而感到疲惫，而科学证明这很愚蠢。

Maybe they're just tired because school starts at 07:30AM, and science says that is stupid.

实际上，我认为科学研究表明，过早开始上课对部分人不利，但对其他人并非如此。

Actually, I think science says that early school start is bad for some people, but not others.

存在不同的作息类型。

There are different chronotypes.

是吗？

Yes?

不过总体而言，青少年往往属于晚起型人群。

Well, in general, though, adolescents tend to be later risers.

所以科学研究会认为，让大多数高中生7:30开始上课是愚蠢的。

So the science would say that starting school for most high school students at 07:30 is dumb.

好吧。

Okay.

所以在这点上她是对的。

So she's right on that.

这点上我错了。

I'm wrong on that.

她接着说，也许他们生活在社会经济条件较差的家庭，家里要么噪音很大，要么没有稳定的学习环境等等。

She continues, maybe they live in a poor socioeconomic situation where there's either a lot of noise at home or not a stable place to work, etcetera.

也许他们的同龄人不重视教育。

Maybe their peers don't value education.

即使他们选择打电子游戏，这难道不是更像多巴胺成瘾而非纯粹的懒惰吗？

Even if they opt for video games, isn't that more like dopamine are addictive rather than pure laziness?

所以我想问问，她写道。

So I thought I would ask, she writes.

安吉拉，我觉得这个问题非常有趣。

Angela, I find this to be an amazingly interesting question.

答案是什么？

What's the answer?

我喜欢苏珊·坎普提出的问题。

I love Susan Kemp's question.

我认为这取决于你如何定义懒惰。

I think that it depends on what you mean by laziness.

如果她是在问，我认为懒惰是真实存在的，还是新教内疚感的产物？

If she is asking, do I think laziness is really a thing or a protestant guilt trip?

你不可能说懒惰不是真实存在的。

There's no way you're gonna say that laziness isn't real.

你可是那位研究毅力的专家。

You're the grit lady.

当你称某人懒惰时，你认为我们真正想表达什么？

Well, when you call somebody lazy, what do you think we really mean?

我认为这意味着我们觉得他们不愿意投入工作。

I think it means that we don't think they're eager to put in the work.

我们观察到的是他们没有在工作，并据此推断或假设他们不想付出努力。

What we observe is that they're not working, and we are inferring or assuming that they don't want to put in the work.

然后她列举了所有可能导致相同行为的其他原因。

And then she's listing all these other reasons that could account for the same behavior.

也许他们无法投入工作。

Maybe they can't put in the work.

也许环境对他们不利。

Maybe circumstances are conspiring against them.

当我们称某人懒惰时，实际上是在对他们的动机和行动意愿做出评判。

There's a judgment that we're passing on someone when we call them lazy that is about their motivation, about the will to do something.

你觉得我们用'懒虫'这类贬义词时，真的是这个意思吗？

Do you think that that's what we mean when we use the word like, you lazy bum or whatever we say derogatorily?

我的直觉反应是否定的。

My gut response is no.

我个人认为懒惰确实存在，因为我对它太熟悉了。

I personally think that laziness is a thing because I'm very familiar with it.

你这话是什么意思？

What do you mean by that?

懒惰对你来说意味着什么？

What does lazy mean to you?

我的意思是，有些事情我觉得自己应该做。

What I mean by that is there are things that I feel I should do.

甚至有些事情我是想做的。

There are even things I would like to do.

但此刻，坐在沙发上看足球比赛更轻松也更惬意，这让我觉得自己很懒。

But right now, at this moment, it's a little easier and a little more satisfying to sit on the couch and turn on the football game, and that feels lazy.

我认为她关于（比如）高中生学业不佳的原因分析很有道理。

Now I think she makes many, many, many good points about the reasons why, for instance, a high schooler would not be doing well at school.

她的所有观察都集中在相对狭窄的具体情境里，比如不想做作业的青少年。

All of her observations were in that rather narrow or specific situation of, let's say, a teenager who doesn't wanna do their homework.

也许我们应该考虑得更广泛一些。

So maybe we should consider it a little bit more broadly.

除了那个不做作业的青少年和我想看足球比赛之外。

Besides the teenager not doing homework and me wanting to watch some football.

我们可以拓宽范围。

We can broaden it.

我们可以超越那个范围。

We can broaden beyond that.

但首先，我想认可并承认你那种感觉，就是觉得自己很懒。

But first, I wanna just honor and acknowledge that feeling that you've had, like you feel lazy.

顺便说一句，我并没有说这不是事实。

And by the way, I didn't say it wasn't a thing.

我只是说这取决于我们对懒惰的定义。

I just said it depends on what we mean by laziness.

你想告诉我我不懒吗？

Do you wanna tell me I'm not lazy?

因为我尊重你，如果你说这是真的，我会感觉好一些。

Because I respect you, and I'll feel better about myself if you say that's true.

嗯，我只是想先明确定义。

Well, I just wanna define terms.

我明白你说的感觉懒是什么意思。

I know what you mean to feel lazy.

最近有个周六我就感觉很懒，我知道这听起来像是——当然了，毕竟是周六。

I recently felt lazy on a full Saturday, and I know that sounds like, of course, it's Saturday.

但通常在周六，我会锻炼一下身体。

But usually on a Saturday, I get a workout in.

那是最棒的日子

That's the best day

因为没人会给你发邮件。

to work because people aren't sending you emails.

确实如此。

Exactly.

没有会议。

No meetings.

我就是在埋头苦干。

I'm just cranking.

所以我记得这个特别的周六，我懒散地躺着。

So I, on this particular Saturday, remember lounging around.

我拿起了报纸。

I picked up the newspaper.

真是懒散的行为。

Slothful behavior.

我随便翻到一个版面，不是我以为会喜欢的那个版面。

I opened it to a random section, not the section I thought was gonna be the section I would enjoy.

我就是随便翻开，开始读些随机的文章。

I just, like, opened it, started reading random articles.

然后不知怎么的一天就过去了，我上床时还在想，真是懒散的一天啊。

And then somehow the day passed, and I went to my bed thinking, like, what a lazy day.

因此我想承认并指出，懒惰感确实存在。

So I wanna honor and acknowledge and say that there's a reality to feeling lazy.

你感受过。

You felt it.

我感受过。

I felt it.

大多数人都曾感到懒惰。

Most people have felt lazy.

所以这必须是真实的，我们有时确实会感到懒惰。

So it has to be real and a thing in that we feel lazy sometimes.

也有可能定义为不愿投入工作的情况确实会在某些人身上发生。

It's also possibly true that defined as not really willing to put in the work must be true of people sometimes.

如果我想说，嘿。

If I wanna say, hey.

我女儿没完成的数学作业，她就是懒得做。

This math assignment that my daughter didn't do, she was too lazy to do.

当然，也有可能她只是不愿意用功。

Of course, it's possible that she wasn't willing to put in the work.

有可能。

It's possible.

但仅仅因为它存在

But just because it's a thing

并不意味着总是如此。

Doesn't mean it's always the thing.

确实如此。

Exactly.

所以，我认为苏珊提出的观点非常到位。

So, again, I think Susan raises really good points.

这很有趣。

It's interesting.

她的问题让我想起乔治·W·布什在NAACP演讲中引发的争议，他当时谈到要提高黑人学生的学业成就。

Her question reminded me of the controversy over the speech that George w Bush gave to the NAACP, and he was talking about wanting to increase black students' achievement.

他使用的'低期望值的温柔偏见'这个说法成为了争议焦点。

The phrase he used that became the source of the controversy was the soft bigotry of low expectations.

有些人反驳说这是对黑人学生的种族主义理解。

And some people pushed back on that saying it was a racist understanding of black students.

我认为他想表达的是设定标准并期望人们达到，而其他人则说可能需要考虑其他因素。

And I think what he was saying was you set a standard and expect people to get to it, and other people were saying, well, there might be some other factors to consider here.

我觉得苏珊在这里所做的，就是提醒我们注意许多可能被笼统归为'懒惰'但实际上往往并非如此的潜在干扰因素。

And I think that's what Susan is doing here is calling attention to a lot of potential confounding factors that we may lump in as, quote, laziness but often wouldn't be.

嗯，是的，那场演讲——虽然我不太了解——但你并没有特别提到懒惰。

Well, yeah, and that speech, which I don't know well, but you didn't talk about laziness in particular.

对吧？

Right?

没有。

No.

但我认为有些人觉得潜台词是：听着

But I think there were some who thought that the subtext was, hey.

加油。

Come on.

如果你再努力一点，就会做得更好。

If you just try a little bit harder, you'll do better.

低期望的温柔偏见。

The soft bigotry of low expectations.

这就是为什么它被称为偏见，而不是那种——你知道的——高期望的温柔激励。

That's why it was called bigotry, not the soft uplift of having, you know, high

对。

Right.

顺便问一句，是谁的期望？

And whose expectations, by the way?

确实如此。

Exactly.

所以我读过一些东西，而且我很了解。

So here's something I have read, and I do know well.

关于基本归因错误的研究文献表明，我们倾向于——我在这里犹豫只是因为我认为我们并不总是犯这个错误。

There's a research literature on the fundamental attribution error and our tendency to and I hesitate here only because I don't think we always make this error.

但有时我们会推断某人不想做某事，不愿意投入工作。

But we can sometimes infer that somebody didn't want to do something, didn't wanna put in the work.

对吧？

Right?

你没做作业，就是不够重视这份作业。

You didn't do your homework, didn't care enough to put in the assignment work.

但事实上，有些情况是情境性的，其根源并非你自身的主观行为。

But, really, there are circumstances that are situational and that are not your own motivated behavior that are at the source.

所以有时候作业真的被狗吃了。

So sometimes a dog really did eat your homework.

明白吗？

Okay?

应该说这种情况不常见。

Not often, we should say.

狗有很多其他东西可以吃。

Dogs have so many other things to eat.

根据我作为狗主人的经验，我尝试过喂它们很多东西。

In my experience as a dog owner, I've tried to feed them many things.

我们应该直接把作业放在狗面前，看看它们会不会吃。

We should just put homework in front of a dog and see if they ever eat it.

如果你在作业上涂些肝脏零食，我发现作业会更容易被吃掉。

If you smear the homework in some liver treats, then I find that the homework is much more readily eaten.

你能想象把作业涂满肝脏零食，希望狗会吃结果狗却不吃吗？

Can you imagine smearing your homework in liver treats, hoping your dog will eat it and the dog doesn't eat it?

然后你不得不把散发着肝脏味的作业交上去。

Then you have to bring it in and turn in your liver smelling homework.

另外，让狗吃这些东西可能对它的健康不好，不过我们跑题了。

Plus, it's probably just not good for the dog to be eating any of this, but we digress.

总之，我的观点是我们有时或经常可能...

Anyway, my point is that we can sometimes or often maybe.

你是说像e r r吗？

Did you say like e r r.

像伊拉克的古城巴比伦尼亚之类的？

Like the old city in Iraq, Babylonia, or wherever?

不是。

No.

是犯错的那个错。

Er as in to commit an error.

错。

Er.

哦，我们可以说'犯错是人之常情'？

Oh, we can To Er is human?

我发音错了吗？

Did I mispronounce that?

这是南泽西地区的另类发音。

It's a South Jersey alternate pronunciation.

好吧。

Okay.

犯错。

To Er.

既然苏珊能把新教徒的负罪感变成动词，我也可以发错音。

Well, if Susan can make Protestant guilt trip into a verb, I can mispronounce.

但总之，我的意思是我们可以从观察到的行为推断某种动机，但可能会出错。

But, anyway, my point is we can infer a certain motive for a behavior that we observe, and we can be wrong.

那么问题就来了，在哪些情况下某人没有付出努力，而我们可能错怪了他们？

And then the question would be, what are all the instances in which somebody doesn't put an effort and we may have been wrong?

比如，超出他们控制范围的情况，或者另一种并非懒惰的原因——单纯就是不想做。

Like, circumstances beyond their control, or there's another thing that's not laziness, and that's just not wanting to do it.

所以当我看到女儿把咖啡杯留在台面上时，我会说'天啊，你真懒'。

So I would say of my coffee cup leaving on the counter daughter, like, oh, you're so lazy.

而我丈夫杰森实际上指出：她只是不想把咖啡杯放进水槽。

And my husband actually Jason pointed out, she doesn't want to put the coffee cup in the sink.

她并不是太懒。

She's not too lazy.

她只是觉得这样做很蠢。

She just thinks it's dumb.

我猜他还会举出她生活中完全不懒的其他例子。

And I'm guessing he points to other examples in her life where she is not lazy at all.

他立刻指出我女儿不可能懒，因为在她真正关心的事情上——比如学业——她非常努力。

He immediately pointed out that my daughter can't be lazy because she works so incredibly hard at things that she does care about, like her academics.

她非常热爱大学里学的专业，和懒惰完全相反。

She really loves what she's studying in college, and she's the opposite of lazy.

所以我认为我们可能会误解人们行为的动机。

So I think that we can be wrong about why people do what they do.

我们可能低估了那些对我们不可见、但对当事人真实存在的情境因素的影响。

We can underestimate the effect of situational factors that are invisible to us but real to that person.

有时我们会误认为对方不愿付出努力，而实际上只是这个目标对那个人毫无价值。

And sometimes we infer an unwillingness to put in the work when the goal itself has no value for the person.

那不是懒惰。

And that's not laziness.

是有些情况，但不是懒惰。

It's something, but it's not laziness.

让我问你这个问题。

Let me ask you this.

坚韧的人是否有时或经常懒惰？

Are gritty people ever or often lazy?

我认为坚韧的人可能会被称为懒惰，或者被认为对他们不关心的无数事情表现懒惰。

I think gritty people could be called lazy or assumed to be lazy about all of the many, many, many, many, many things that that gritty person doesn't care about.

不过确实。

But yeah.

事实上，我认为坚韧的秘诀之一就是对你不在做的事情保持真正的懒惰。

In fact, I think that's part of the secret of grit is to actually be really lazy about all the things that you're not doing.

但我想，一个不‘懒惰’的理由——我意识到只要我们讨论这个话题，就会围绕这个定义产生分歧。

But I guess one reason not to be, quote, lazy, and I realize we're going to have issues around that definition as long as we talk about this topic.

但不懒惰的一个理由是避免陷入可能成为坏习惯的行为。

But one reason to not be lazy is so that you don't get locked into what could be bad habits.

比如，我记得那篇研究论文，讲的是伦敦地铁部分罢工时发生的情况。

I think of, for instance you remember the research paper about what happened when there was some kind of partial transit strike, I believe, in the London tube.

某些线路关闭了，通勤者不得不尝试不同的出行路线。

There were certain lines that were shut down, and so commuters had to try different ways of getting places.

我记得有5%的通勤者找到了更高效的路线。

And 5% of commuters, I think, found a more efficient route.

确实如此。

Exactly.

那里本可以进行一些优化，但如果他们固守旧习、不被推动的话，他们永远都不会去做这些优化。

There was some optimization to be done there that they never would have done had they stayed locked in their habit had they not been prodded out.

所以你不觉得可以这样认为吗：如果你少一点懒惰，就能让自己接触到更多选择，拥有更大的选择空间。

So don't you think that you could argue that if you're a little bit less lazy, you could expose yourself to more options, a larger choice set.

你阅读的每本书、思考的每个问题、交往的每个人都能让你变得更好，单凭这一点就足以成为你摆脱懒惰的理由。

Everything you read, everything you think about, every person you interact with could make you better off, and that alone would be a reason to prod yourself out of laziness.

要积累足够的激活能量去尝试新事物，学习新知识。

To get the energy of activation up enough to try something new, learn something.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

但请允许我提出反对意见。

But let me make the counterargument.

我指导过许多学生，也曾是那个过分积极、勤奋到反而养成低效习惯的学生。

I have supervised many students, and I have been the student who was so eager beaver, so industrious that, in fact, I fell into inefficient habits.

我也遇到过不介意多花六小时手工将一份文档笔记誊抄到另一份文档的学生，这种努力同样可能导致完全的低效率。

And I have had students who don't mind putting in the extra six hours of work to transcribe the notes from one document into another document by hand, and that can be a route to total inefficiency also.

所以有时懒惰反而能避免这种情况，因为正是懒惰的学生会说'肯定有更快的方法'。

So sometimes laziness can save you from that because it's the lazy student who says there's gotta be a faster way.

哦，对。

Oh, right.

复制粘贴。

Copy paste.

或许懒惰并无绝对的好坏之分，但我认为反思自己为何不想在周六做某事，或别人为何不愿将咖啡杯挪四英尺到水槽边，总是有益的。

And so maybe there is no rule about when laziness is good or bad, but I do think that introspecting about why it is that you don't wanna do something on a Saturday or why somebody else doesn't wanna move the coffee cup four feet to the sink is always useful.

当我回想起那个周六，我对丈夫说：天哪。

When I thought about that Saturday and I said to my husband, oh my god.

我记忆中从未有过持续整整十二小时的懒散时光。

I haven't had a lazy bout that lasted, you know, a full twelve hours.

记忆中到底发生了什么？

In memory, what is going on?

他说：我觉得你是精疲力竭了，并指出我最近一直睡眠不好。

He said, I think you're exhausted and pointed out to me that I hadn't been sleeping well.

所以这实际上很有帮助。

So that's actually useful.

我觉得新教那种罪恶感心理很有趣，因为理解自己为何不想做某事，总比直接产生负罪感要好。

I think the Protestant guilt trip thing is interesting because I think it is better to understand why you don't wanna do something than to immediately just feel guilty about it.

这些都很有道理，而且我认为苏珊对那些我们常称之为懒惰之人的质疑——尤其当他们不属于我们的圈子、世代或群体时——提供了很多论据甚至有力支持。

So that all makes sense, and I think there's a lot of argument or a lot of ammunition even to Susan's challenging of the people that we tend to call lazy, especially when they're people who are not in our circle, who are not in our generation, or not in our cohort in some way.

我明白这种抱怨可能过于宽泛。

I understand that it can be too broad a complaint.

话虽如此，如果某天我感到自己所谓的懒惰——比如明明有需要做、想做、或能为他人带来重大意义的事，却提不起劲去做。

That said, if I happen to feel on a given day what I would call lazy like, there are things, again, that I need to do, I wanna do, I wanna do something for someone else that would mean a lot to them, but I can't really motivate myself to do it.

你有什么心理技巧吗？求分享。

Do you have any mind tricks, please?

我认为，当你觉得如果做某件你并不真正想做的事会让大家都更好时，让这件事奏效的方法不是用‘应该’和‘必须’。

I think that in the circumstances when you think everyone will be better off if you do the thing that you don't really feel like doing, the way to get this to work is not to use ought and should.

实际上是要把它变成一种‘想要’。

It's actually to turn it into a want.

比如你可以设法让它变得有趣些，举例来说，你并不真的想写感谢信，但你觉得你应该写。

If you can make it somehow enjoyable say, for example, you don't really wanna write thank you notes, but you feel like you ought to.

加倍强调‘应该’不如设法让它变得更有乐趣。

Doubling the ought isn't as good as just making it somehow more pleasurable.

那具体要怎么做呢？

And how do you do that?

嗯，你可以播放音乐。

Well, you could play music.

你可以让家里某个人陪你一起写。

You could make somebody in your family do them with you.

你可以在信里加些粗俗的暗号。

You could add secret codes that are vulgar.

比如阴阳怪气的恭维话。

Backhanded compliments.

有各种方法可以让你的感谢信变得有趣。

There are all kinds of things you could do to make your thank you note.

但说实话，我自己的女儿们——我一直试图让她们写感谢信，用了很多‘应该’和‘必须’。

But, yeah, actually, my own daughters who I always tried to get them to write thank you notes, and I used a lot of ought and should.

真正让她们动手写的其实并不是这些说教。

It was actually not that that made them get down to it.

他们觉得手工制作感谢卡虽然在我看来效率极低，但确实更有乐趣。

They actually find it more fun to, what I find, incredibly inefficient, but hand make the thank you notes.

哦，那挺好的。

Oh, that's nice.

耗时是四倍。

Takes four times as long.

但实际上，这反而让它变成了一种需求，因为他们乐在其中。

But, actually, it makes it more into a want because that's enjoyable to them.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

我们的解决方案是允许发送感谢邮件。

Our solution to that was to allow thank you emails.

我觉得这很合理。

I think that's legit.

我觉得发条感谢短信也行。

I think even a thank you text.

嗯，这已经是我家人能给出的最大诚意了。

Well, that's the most you're ever gonna get from anyone in my family.

我就这么一说。

I'm just saying.

我会怀着万分感激收下，因为有点总比没有强无数倍。

I will take it with great appreciation because something beats nothing by an infinite amount.

有点总比没有强无数倍。

Something beats nothing by an infinite amount.

这是你编的吗？

Did you make that up?

是啊。

Yeah.

你喜欢吗？

Do you like it?

这句话真棒。

That's a great quote.

希望我没有抄袭别人，但我觉得是自己原创的。

I hope I'm not plagiarizing it off to someone, but I think I made it up.

确实太精彩了。

It's really wonderful.

今天还想再听你讲一句名言

I want one more quote from you today

好的。

Okay.

用来结束这期关于懒惰的话题。

To end this episode about laziness.

行吗？

Okay?

这里有几条关于懒惰的名言，你可能会喜欢。

So here's a couple quotes about laziness that I thought you might enjoy.

科比·布莱恩特曾说过，人们永远无法确定某句话是否真的被说过，因为名言总是那么模糊易逝。

Kobe Bryant apparently once said one never really knows if anybody has ever said anything because quotes are so amorphous and ephemeral.

但科比·布莱恩特曾说过，我无法理解懒惰的人。

But Kobe Bryant apparently once said, I can't relate to lazy people.

我们说的不是同一种语言。

We don't speak the same language.

我不明白你的意思。

I don't understand you.

我也不想理解你。

I don't want to understand you.

化妆品企业家赫莲娜·鲁宾斯坦据说曾说过，世上没有丑女人，只有懒女人。

Helena Rubinstein, the cosmetics entrepreneur, reportedly once said, there are no ugly women, only lazy ones.

我觉得她今天不会这么说了。

I don't think she'd say that today.

那么安吉拉·达克沃斯关于懒惰最经久不衰的名言会是什么呢？

So what will Angela Duckworth's most enduring quote about laziness be?

天啊。

Oh my gosh.

我不会替你做的，史蒂文。

I'm not gonna do it for you, Steven.

知道为什么吗？

You know why?

你懒得编造关于懒惰的名言。

You're too lazy to make up a quote about laziness.

要知道，编个简短精辟的引语要容易得多。

You know, it's much easier to have, like, a pithy little quote.

这可不太像自省啊，本·富兰克林。

That's kind of non introspective, you know, Ben Franklin.

懒惰让所有工作都变得困难。

Laziness makes every work difficult.

好吧。

Okay.

很好。

Great.

但我建议人们，当你感到懒惰时，问问为什么。

But I am asking people, when you feel lazy, ask why.

但这算不上精辟的格言。

But that's not a pithy quote.

就像幸运饼干里的签文一样。

It's like a fortune cookie.

我觉得这相当精辟。

I think that's pretty pithy.

而且这是个问题。

It's also a question.

我发现最好的格言都是问题形式。

I found the best quotes are questions.

当你感到懒惰时，先等等。

When you feel lazy wait.

刚才说的是什么来着？

What was it again?

看吧，这并不简洁。

See, it's not that pithy.

当你感到懒惰时，问问为什么。

When you feel lazy, ask why.

哦，这也不是个问题。

Oh, it wasn't a question either.

也许我能想出一个以L开头的词。

Maybe if I can figure out a word that starts with l.

比如，当你感到懒惰时，先问问，如果这个词是以L开头的话。

Like, when you feel lazy, ask, and then if it's starting with an l.

不要问你的懒惰能为你做什么。

Ask not what your lazy can do for you.

不。

No.

那样行不通。

That won't work.

不要问你的国家能为你做什么，而要问为什么你还躺在沙发上。

Ask not what your country can do for you, but why you're still on the couch.

不要问你的沙发能为你做什么。

Ask not what your couch can do for you.

好吧。

Alright.

我们会...我们会想办法的。

We'll we'll work on it.

我是说，你

I mean, you

知道，除非我们太懒。

know, unless we're too lazy.

在接下来的无愚蠢问题环节，史蒂文和安吉拉将对比孤独感与独处体验。

Still to come on no stupid questions, Steven and Angela contrast the feeling of being lonely with the experience of being alone.

或许我们需要一顶帽子，上面写着'我独处但不孤独'。

Maybe we need, like, a hat that says I'm alone, but not lonely.

安吉拉，很多人在公共场合独处时会感到不自在。

Angela, a lot of people are uncomfortable being alone in public.

他们觉得全世界都在看着他们，并暗自评判他们是个独处的失败者。

They feel the world is looking at them and kinda judging them to be a loser for being alone.

这种现象在青少年中尤为明显，尽管不仅限于他们。

And this seems especially prominent among adolescents, although not just them.

作为一个真正享受独处并认为适度独处对你有益的人，我很好奇，对于如何在公共场合更好地享受独处，你有什么建议吗？

So I, as someone who really enjoys being alone and thinks it can be really good for you in moderation at least, I'm curious, do you have any advice for people to feel better about being alone in public?

你是指比如在餐厅这样的场合？

So you mean, like, at a restaurant, for example.

对吧？

Right?

餐厅、博物馆、电影院，疫情前。

Restaurant, museum, movie, pre pandemic.

奇怪的是看电影反而更容易些，因为大部分时间你都坐在黑暗中。

Movie in a weird way is sort of easier because you're sitting in the dark most of the time.

是的。

Yeah.

当你在那里时，也许就在那一刻，比如说票，要多少张？

While you're there, but maybe just that moment when there are, like, tickets, how many?

然后你说一张。

And you say one.

先生，请给我一张就好。

Just one, please, sir.

但也许餐厅是最典型的例子。

But maybe restaurant is the most prominent example.

我觉得餐厅是最经典的场景，你知道的，比如'请给我一个人的位子'。

I think restaurant is the canonical, you know, like, table for one, please.

《周六夜现场》里不是有个小品吗？他们大声撤走另一套餐具，聚光灯就打在你身上。

Isn't there some Saturday Night Live sketch where they noisily take away the other setting, and there's this spotlight on you?

我认为餐厅场景之所以让人感触良多——当你独自用餐感觉所有人都在看你——是因为餐厅里人们都是与亲友共聚，这暗示着你没有朋友或在乎你的人。

I mean, I think that the reason why the restaurant scene where you're eating by yourself and you feel like everybody's looking at you is so emotional to think about is that people in a restaurant are with their friends or their family, and the implication would be that you don't have friends or people who care about you.

我觉得这才是真正触动心弦的关键。

I think that's the trigger that it's really hitting.

你同意这个观点吗？

Do you agree with that?

我认为完全正确。

I think that's exactly right.

我觉得这里面有两层含义。

And I think that there's two layers of this.

孤独是最负面的情绪之一。

Loneliness is one of the most negative emotions.

就我个人而言，在所有可能感受到的负面情绪中，比如恐惧，我认为孤独对我来说是最糟糕的。

And for me, personally, I think of all of the negative emotions you could feel, like terror, I think loneliness is the worst for me.

所以我完全理解为什么人们不愿经历孤独，也不希望被视为独来独往的人。

So I can certainly appreciate why people wouldn't wanna experience loneliness, and they don't wanna be perceived as being alone.

你既不想被看作是没有社交联系的人，也不想真正体验这种感受。

You don't wanna be judged as somebody who doesn't have connections to other people, but you also don't wanna experience it.

所以这是双重打击的糟糕体验。

So it's a double whammy of badness.

我很好奇为什么你觉得孤独是最糟糕的情绪？

I'm curious for you why loneliness is the worst emotion.

是过去的经历导致的吗？

Was it driven by experiences of it?

我是说，没人喜欢孤独，但为什么我会如此、如此、如此地想要避免它？

I mean, nobody likes being lonely, but why do I really, really, really want to avoid it?

说实话，我也不确定。

You know, I'm not sure.

不过我倒确实记得发现这种感觉的时刻。

I do remember the discovery of it, though.

我丈夫杰森有个习惯，每年感恩节晚餐结束后，他都会立即动身去多伦多见他最好的朋友。

So my husband, Jason, was in the habit of going to see his best friend who lives in Toronto, and he would go every Thanksgiving pretty much right after dinner was cleared.

然后他会在加拿大和这位朋友度过这个长周末的两三天时间。

And he would spend the next two or three days of this long weekend with his friend in Canada.

我想部分原因是我不知道他们那里是否庆祝感恩节。

And I guess partly it's because I don't know if they celebrate Thanksgiving there.

也许他们不庆祝。

Maybe they don't.

当时看起来似乎是个特别明智的出行时机。

It just seemed like a particularly clever time to go.

但现在回想起来，那显然是最糟糕的出行时间。

But in retrospect, of course, it was the worst time to go.

记得有一年感恩节，我们的孩子还小，但已经大到会特别期待和表兄弟姐妹们玩耍了。

And there's this one Thanksgiving where our kids were young, but, like, old enough to really look forward to playing with their cousins.

当时我正站在火车月台上。

And so I was on a train platform.

我刚把他们送到祖母家，那里有他们期待见到的表亲们。

I had just dropped them off at their grandmother's house with the cousins that they were looking forward to seeing being there.

你是要去赌场之类的地方吗？

You were going to a casino or something?

你要去哪里？

Where are you going?

呃，不是的。

Well, no.

事情是这样的。

Here's the thing.

我无处可去。

I didn't have anywhere.

我回家了。

I went home.

天气很冷。

It was cold.

天黑了，火车晚点了。

It was dark, and train was late.

后来火车终于来了，结果发现我站错了站台。

And then the train finally came, and turns out I was on the opposite side of the platform.

所以我不得不穿过站台重新等车。

So I had to, like, cross over and wait again.

我当时真的，真的为自己感到难过。

I was really, really feeling sorry for myself.

我想就是那天晚上我突然意识到，哇。

And I think it was that night that I discovered that, like, wow.

我真的很讨厌孤独的感觉。

I really hate being lonely.