没有愚蠢的问题：婚姻角色

你能别问那些蠢问题吗？

Would you mind doing a no stupid questions?

我完全不介意。

I don't mind at all.

好的。

Alright.

我最近这一周跟家人聊过一次，想跟你分享一下。

So I have this is a conversation I had over the this past week

嗯，好的。

Okay.

是跟一位家人聊的。

With a family member.

这个人我就不点名了，但你知道，他是去教堂的。

And this person, they I'm not gonna say who, but they, you know, they do attend church.

这事儿挺有意思的，因为我在世俗圈子里经常听到这种说法，说教会歧视女性、打压女人，诸如此类的论调。

And it's it's kind of an interesting thing because I hear this argument a lot from the secular world when they're trying to label the church as sexist or they put down women or all that that sort of, narrative.

我觉得特别有意思的是，他们说，哦，所有女性都该顺从丈夫，听丈夫的话。

And the thing I find, you know, very interesting is they said, oh, well, you know, all us women were supposed to just submit and do whatever our husband tells us.

每次听到这种话，我其实不是生气，而是特别无奈，因为一说到这个，对话马上就被打断了，我根本没机会跟他们深入聊一聊。

And what always really, like, it doesn't tick me up, but what frustrates me is that every time one of these things gets said, the the conversation quickly gets interrupted, and I can't, like, I can't get into it with them and try to explain.

在我眼里，他们总说女性就该伺候男人，可圣经里明明有很多内容讲的是丈夫该怎么对待妻子，这些他们全都不提。

Because to me, that's always the argument of, well, you know, women are supposed to just serve men, but there's a lot in the Bible about men and how they are supposed to be treating their wife and women that they they always leave that part out.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Mhmm.

没错。

Mhmm.

就像我们之前说过的，有些牧师特别偏颇，连这部分也故意忽略。

And there's been some pretty toxic pastors like we've discussed before who they even leave it out.

他们就只盯着女性该做什么，别的全都不提。

You know, they just kinda focus on what women need to do.

不过呢。

But Yeah.

我想聊聊这个话题：男人在关系中，或者作为基督徒男性，他们的角色到底是什么？

I wanted to bring that up as a topic as what are men's roles in relationships or in general as a man, as a Christian man?

咱们不妨仔细分析一下，因为这种话题其实经常会出现。

So let's let's actually break this down because we we you know, this is this is one of those conversation pieces that comes up quite a bit.

是的。

And Yeah.

而且很明显，我们之前也稍微提到过，比如我的问题，或者可能跟一篇新闻报道有关。

And obviously, you know, we were even hitting on it a little bit in terms of, you know, even my question really or might not might be a news article.

我觉得挺贴切的。

I felt like it fit.

真正有趣的是，你不仅能从圣经里看到这一点，还能从生物学角度观察到。

What's really fascinating about this is that you can actually see this not just in terms of of scripture, but also biologically.

首先，我们先打个基础。

So first of all, let's cover the basis.

圣经确实说妻子要顺服丈夫，但同时也说丈夫要爱妻子。

Like, yes, the bible says women, or or wives are to submit to their husband, but it also says that husbands are to love their wives.

在古代，爱并不是指心跳加速、浪漫甜蜜，而是实实在在的行动，尤其是自我牺牲的行动。

Now love in the ancient world, you know, was not necessarily like hearts and butterflies, but was actual action, but more specifically sacrificial action.

保罗在写给以弗所教会的信里明确指出，丈夫应当为妻子舍己。

And, Paul, in his letter to the Ephesians, actually pretty much makes it clear that men are to sacrifice of themselves for the sake of their wife.

妻子甘愿在丈夫之下，是因为这样她才能托起他。

So a woman places herself underneath her husband because from there, she can lift him up.

而丈夫为妻子舍己，也是为了能真正托起她。

But then the husband sacrifices of himself for the sake of his wife because that's where he can lift her up.

对的。

Mhmm.

所以这就像一种默契，我倒不说是竞争，但你们俩都在努力把对方托得更高。

And so it it kinda becomes this, like, almost, like, element of of I don't wanna say competition, but it's almost like you're both trying to lift the other person up.

婚姻里，重点不是关注自己，而是关注你的伴侣。

In marriage, it's not where you focus on yourself, but you focus on your partner.

你的伴侣也不会只想着自己，他们会想着你。

And your partner doesn't focus on their selves, they focus on you.

这样一来，你们就能互相支持，彼此成就。

And so you end up supporting one another and lifting each other up.

这当然是理想状态，对吧？

Now that's the perfect world, right?

但现实并不总是这么理想。

And we don't always live in a perfect world.

没错。

Right.

有时候我们会发现自己有需求，这些需求确实得面对，不管会不会让你情绪崩溃什么的。

You know, sometimes we find that we have needs and and, you know, and and we just got to we have to address those needs whether or not, you know, we're going to have like a mental break or something.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

比如说，如果一个男人每周工作八九十个小时，他根本没时间把家里那些事都做完。

Like, like, you know, sometimes sometimes if the man is is working, you know, eighty, ninety hours a week, he's just not going to have time to, you know, get all the jobs that need to be done around the house.

你知道，他就是抽不开身。

You know, he just he just can't.

妻子也是一样。

And the same thing with the wife.

也许妻子在上班，或者忙这忙那，有无数事情要处理，根本没时间去支持丈夫。

Maybe the wife is is she's working or she's busy or she's got this to do and that to do, you know, and she has got a million other things going on and she might not have time to lift up her husband.

所以说，我们必须明白，我们活在一个不完美的世界里，事情不会总像理想中那样顺利。但在这样一个混乱的世界里，总体来看，丈夫应当甘愿付出自己，去支持妻子；而妻子则应当甘于顺服，主要是为了能支持丈夫、扶持丈夫。

Again, so you have to realize we live in a sinful world where this does not always work out as perfect as we want, but in the grand scheme of this messy, messy world, when we look at things, by and large, your your man should be sacrificing of himself to lift up his wife and his wife should be in a role of submission, but mainly so that she can lift up her husband, so that she can support her husband.

对。

Mhmm.

不过呢，他们各自确实有一些特定的角色，我不该叫它们‘规则’。

With that though, there are certain rules or I shouldn't say rules, roles that each of them play.

再说一遍，圣经并没有说男人比女人优越，或者女人比男人优越。

Again, I I don't want so the Bible doesn't necessarily say that a man is better than a woman or a woman is better than a man.

你确定吗？

Are you sure?

我之所以这么说，是因为确实如此。

I'm pretty Because Yeah.

我觉得这正是那种人们嘴上说着‘哦，对对对’的事情。

I I feel like that is one of those things that people act like is, you know, oh, yeah.

人们总觉得男人比女人高一等。

You know, men are above women.

是的。

Yeah.

不是这样的。

No.

重点不在于谁更高一等，而是我们各自有不同的角色。

It's it's not so much that, but we do have differing roles.

比如说，男人应当爱自己的妻子，勇敢地为她付出、牺牲。

And some of the like, so for instance, you know, the the man is to love his wife and, you know, in essence, courageous and sacrifice for her.

假如真有陌生人闯进家里，威胁到家人安全，这时候男人就得站出来，说‘想动她们，除非从我尸体上踏过去’——而且是真心这么想的。

Like, if an intruder breaks in the house, so to speak, and attacks the family, you know, this is where the man should step up and the man should be like, yeah, over my dead body and and mean it.

你

You

想伤害我妻子和孩子，除非先踏过我的尸体。

know, the only way you're gonna get to my wife and kids is by me by by me being dead.

就这么简单，别无他选。

And and that's just all there is to it.

这也是他作为男人的使命之一。

And, you know, that's that is part of his calling.

这本来就是他身份的一部分。

That is part of who he is.

我们之前聊过，作为男人的修养中，有一点很重要：只要身体条件允许——当然，有些人有生理障碍，我明白——但只要能行，男人至少得有足够体能保护自己的家。

So, know, one of the things that we've talked about that like is in in the discipline of being a man, one of the things that that all men should be to some degree, as long as it's physically possible, I mean, like real I realized that some people have physical disabilities, but as long as it's, like, possible, a a man should be in at least good enough shape to protect his own home.

对。

Mhmm.

你懂的吧？

You know?

无论如何，他都该做好准备去保护家人。

In one way or the other, he should be prepared to protect.

这本身就是他的目标之一。

And that is part of his goal.

这跟他这个人是分不开的。

That is part of who he is.

这是他与生俱来的设计。

It's part of how he's been designed.

同样的道理，女性养育孩子也是如此。

In the same way, in terms of women nurturing children.

大多数女性天生就擅长养育孩子。

By and large, women should nurture children because they're really gifted at it.

当然，这中间有没有例外？

Now, again, are there exceptions to the rule?

当然有。

Of course.

有没有一些女性特别擅长保护家庭？

Are there some women that are really good at protecting the home?

我想是有的。

I guess.

当然有。

Yeah.

我相信肯定有。

I'm sure there are.

就像也有些男性特别擅长照顾孩子一样。

And just like there are some men that are really good at at at nurturing their their children.

所以你不能说，你绝对不能做这个、那个之类的。

And so you don't wanna say, oh, like you can't ever do this and yada yada yada.

但总的来说，这些是我们被赋予的角色。

But at the same time, by and large, these are the roles that that we have been given.

有意思的是，当我们谈到这个话题，尤其是以弗所书第五章里提到的这些内容时。

Now what's really fascinating about this is, like, is we talk about this and we talk about, you know, especially Ephesians five where a lot of this stuff comes in.

事实上，我们开始意识到，这一点在生物学上也是成立的。

The reality is that we are beginning to understand that this is also true biologically.

有一项很有趣的研究，我之前在节目里提到过好几次。

One of the fascinating studies and I've quoted this study several times.

总有一天我要把这篇研究找出来，专门在节目里读一读。

One of these days I'm just going look it up and read the study on the podcast.

他们做过一项关于婴儿的有趣研究。

They did this interesting study with with infants.

你其实能看出来，就连男女在做类似事情时，方式都不一样。

And, you know, and you can see this with because, like, even the way men and women handle even when we're doing something similar are even the same.

比如说，你要是留意一下……我不知道，举个例子。

Like, if you watch if you watch, I don't know.

假设你在看孩子们踢足球，注意看那些教练。

Let's say you're let's say you're watching kids play soccer, you know, and you're watching the coaches.

教练对待小女孩和小男孩的方式，完全是两回事。

How the coach approaches a little girl and a little boy are two different things.

等他们长大了，教练的指导方式依然会有所不同。

And as they get older, the coaching strategies is still gonna be different.

你知道，小女孩没进球的时候，教练通常会表现得比较感性，语气也会比较柔和。

You know, a little girl, you know, misses the goal, and a lot of times, like the coach, whoever that is, will try to be in an in a very emotional, you know, kind of kind of come down on a very emotional side of things.

比如，他们会说："没关系。"

Like, it's okay.

我们再来一次。"

We're gonna try it again.

你知道的，可能会稍微有点沮丧，但与此同时，心里又会想，我们得继续坚持下去。

You know, maybe get a little frustrated, but at the same time, kind of be like, we're just gonna keep going.

你知道的，而对于小男孩来说，很多时候，你知道的，就会开始互相起外号，他们会说，你干嘛踢人？

You know, whereas with a young boy, a lot of times, you know, the name calling comes out and they'll be like, why are you kicking?

你知道的，你会说，你踢球的样子就像两岁的小孩。

Like, you know, you're You're kicking like you're two years old.

你是婴儿吗？

Are you a baby?

就是一种特别粗犷的态度。

It's like this really gruff attitude.

这其实是因为男女天生就不一样。

That's actually part of the way because men and women are created different.

有一项研究专门探讨过这个，他们观察了人的眼睛。

One of the studies that actually looked into this, they looked at, the eyes.

比如说，你看到一个穿绿色衣服的小婴儿。

And, you know, if you if you see a little baby, and let's say the baby's dressed in green.

对吧？

Right?

你根本分不清是男孩还是女孩。

You don't know if it's a boy, or a girl, baby.

衣服是绿色的。

It's in green.

只要你盯着婴儿的眼睛看两到五分钟，就能判断出是男是女。

And you you stare at the baby in the eyes within about within about anywhere from two to five minutes, you can figure out if it's a boy or a girl.

就是盯着他们的眼睛看，因为小女孩会直接回望着你。

Just staring at it in the eyes because the little girl will stare right back at you.

她不会移开视线。

She won't break eye contact.

她会一直盯着你的眼睛看。

She'll stare at you in the eyes.

而小男孩，哪怕还只是婴儿，他的大脑天生就习惯寻找威胁，眼睛会不停地四处张望。

The little boy, even though he's just an infant, his brain is so wired to look for threats that his eyes will start darting all over the place.

这太有意思了。

That is so interesting.

确实如此。

Yeah.

我跟你说实话，这可不是我瞎编的。

I I'm gonna be honest with you, and I'm not I'm not making this up.

我的孩子就是这样的。

My that's exactly how my children were.

我有个儿子，一个女儿，还有一个儿子，两个儿子都这样，根本不会看你。

I have a boy, a girl, and a boy, and my sons both, like, they were just all, you know, they didn't look at you.

他们的眼神到处乱飘。

They were all over the place.

我女儿呢，确实是这样。

My daughter Yeah.

我女儿是剖腹产生下来的，我一抱她，她眼睛就睁开了。

I mean, we we had a she was born by c section, and I held her and, you know, and she was her eyes were open.

我第一次抱她的时候，她直直地盯着我的眼睛。

And the first time I held her, she stared straight into my eyes.

对。

Yeah.

我知道肯定有人会说，她那时候根本看不清东西。

And I know there's probably people like, oh, she probably can't even really see that.

我知道。

I know.

我的意思是，我知道这听起来有点奇怪，但真的是太不可思议了。

I mean, I know what but it was the craziest thing.

你这么说，我之前还真不知道，但确实完全没错。

That's, I mean, for you to say that, I did not really know that, but it's completely true.

她直直地盯着我，一点都没移开视线。

She stared straight at me and didn't break eye contact.

是的。

Yeah.

而且这确实，挺有意思的。

And that's yeah, that's interesting.

对。

Yeah.

不是的。

No.

男性的大脑几乎是天生就倾向于寻找危险并保护自己。

So a guy's brain is is just almost like wired to to look for threats and to protect.

所以说，老实讲，这其实是上帝赋予我们的天性，从生物角度来说，我们本来就是这样。

And so and so, yeah, like, I I mean, again, it's again, it's it's one of the things, like, God wired us this way, and we are this way biologically as well.

没错。

Right.

我们的大脑运作方式完全不同，各自有各自的特点。

And our brains just function completely different and we have certain things.

所以再说回男女的角色问题，这些规则有没有例外呢？

So again, we're talking about men and women's roles and it's like again, are there exceptions to these rules?

当然有例外。

Of course there are.

你清楚自己的情况，知道自己身处什么环境，但归根结底，我们确实有着不同的角色定位。

You know your scenario, you know where you're at But, you know, deep down, the the answer is is we do have differing roles.

我们就是不一样。

We just do.

嗯，是这样。

Uh-huh.

你知道吗，说到这儿，就涉及到了男人作为家庭属灵领袖这一点，这确实是事实。

And, you know, you know, this is where we get into, like, men are the spiritual house head of the household, and and it's true.

一般来说，孩子都会跟着父亲行事。

Like, kids, generally speaking, will follow their kid, will follow their their fathers.

你明白吧？

You know?

如果你爸爸不去教会，那你也很可能不会去。

And if your if your dad doesn't go to church, more than likely, you won't either.

不过，有没有例外呢？

Now, again, is there exceptions?

当然有。

Of course, there are.

你懂的。

You know?

但与此同时，这话也确实有道理。

But at the same time, like, there's also a lot of truth in that.

从数据上来看，我们其实能清楚地看到这一点。

Like, statistically speaking, we can kinda show you this.

这简直太惊人了。

It's, like, incredible.

太不可思议了。

It's wild.

没错。

Like Yeah.

你知道吗？如果爸爸去教会，孩子去教会的比例能到百分之七十多，哪怕妈妈不去。

You know, 70 some percent of kids will go to church if their dad goes to church but not their mom.

但如果只是妈妈去、爸爸不去，孩子去教会的就只有百分之三十左右。

But only like 30 some will go to church if their mom goes to church but not their dad.

对。

Mhmm.

这简直太明显了。

It's it's like wicked.

是的。

Yeah.

如果父母双方都去教会，而且在家里也经常谈论信仰，孩子留在教会的概率大约是82%。

And if mom and dad go to church, both go to church and they talk about it at home anyway, you know, it's like 82% chance of staying in the church.

所以你看，我们其实能指出很多这样的小数据，但归根结底，关键还是和伴侣好好沟通，想想怎样才能更好地支持对方，确保两个人都能过上充实美满的生活，尽力遵行主的旨意。这意味着你们得有属灵的操练，要确保孩子去教会，也要明确各自的角色。

So so, you know, there's just again, there's just a lot of, like, little stats and things that we can kinda point to and direct to and it's like but but at the end of the day, you know, it comes down to, you know, basically talking it over with your spouse, figuring out which way will support the other the most and making sure that both of you ultimately live a good and fulfilled life and and try to to do your best to do the will of the lord and That is going to mean that you are going to have some spiritual disciplines and you are going to have to make sure that your kids go to church and make sure that you have those roles.

在继续往下说之前，我还想提一件事。

Now, I did want to mention one other thing before I kind of jet off on this one.

比如，人们常说男人是家庭属灵的头，于是就以为上帝的意思是男人比女人更优越。

That is this, we have a tendency to look at things like for instance, the man is the spiritual head of the household and we say, Oh, so God is saying the man is better than the woman.

不是这样的。

Not so.

完全不是这么回事。

Not so at all.

这就像典型的那种情况——人人都想当老板，可真当了老板之后，才发现……

This is this is kinda like the the quintessential like like everybody wants to be the boss until you're the boss and once you're the boss,

你还记得

you remember

当领导有多糟吧。

how awful it is being the boss.

是啊。

Yes.

没错。

And Yeah.

这其实就有点像这么回事。

That's that's kind of what this is.

亚当，他是那个负责传递神的话语的人。

Adam see, Adam was the the word bearer.

他本该传递神的话，却失败了。

He was the one that was supposed to bear God's word, and he failed.

他彻底失败了。

He failed miserably.

这就是为什么夏娃，你知道，说到底，圣经把这一切都归咎于亚当是有原因的。

This is why Eve you know, again, look, there's a reason that the Bible basically says this is all Adam's fault.

对。

Yeah.

你看，经文里提到女人只是顺带一提，并不是因为她们不重要，而是因为本来该承担责任的是亚当，而他没尽到责任。

You know, very you know, it talks about women in a passing role, but not because they're unimportant, but because the person who was supposed to be responsible was Adam and Adam didn't do his job.

承担神的话语，本就是他的担子。

It is his burden to be the word bearer.

同样的情况，在这里也一样发生。

The same thing goes on, you know, here.

说到底，让男人来承担神的话语，这仍然是他们的责任。

Like, you know, it's still men's responsibility to be the word bearer.

你也会看到，尤其是在九十年代和两千年初的教会里，男人们失职了。

And one of the things that you're seeing is like, especially, you know, in the church of the nineties and the early two thousands, that men failed.

他们没做好自己的本分，你知道的。

They didn't do their jobs, you know?

是的

Yeah.

不，不，不，不是这么回事。

And it's like, you know, again, no, no, no, no.

这并不是说男人比女人更优秀。

This is not this is not meant to be a men are better than women.

意思是这是男人的责任，他们必须承担起来。

It's supposed to be this is men's job and they need to do it.

他们得站出来。

They need to step up.

对。

Yes.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此，你知道的。

It it is, you know yeah.

你刚才说每个人都想当领导，直到真正体验过之后，这话说得真对。我确实经历过不少领导岗位， mostly 都跟音乐有关。

I when you said about everybody wants to be in charge until they actually experience it, that is I mean, I've been in, you know, a lot of leadership positions and mostly, you know, to do with music.

但带领一个团队并不总是那么有成就感，我说不好该怎么表达，但确实没很多人想象的那么美好。

But being the leader of a group is not always a very I should I don't know if have the right way to say it, but it's not always the most rewarding or it's not as rewarding as some people assume it is.

我带过几个团队，没少挨骂，说过我的难听话也听了不少。我只是想把事情做好，让大家有个愉快的体验，可还是有人对我特别刻薄。

You get a lot you know, I've had I've had some groups I've run, and I get a lot of crap, you know, and I've had a lot of nasty things said to me and me, and I'm and I'm I'm just trying to run, you know, I'm just trying to make a good experience for a bunch of people, and I'll have people who are just really, really nasty to me.

不过好在，这回不是在教会里带的团队，算是幸运。

Now that I'm this is not this is a group outside of like a church, luckily.

是啊。

But Yeah.

有些人总觉得自己该当领导，一副理所当然的样子。

You know, it wasn't and then there are some people who kinda act like, well, I should be in charge.

其实你真不想当，你想想清楚。

It's like, I don't think you wanna be, you know?

是的。

Yeah.

因为当领导这事儿真挺遭罪的。

Because it's kinda miserable being the person in charge.

所以没错，我特别能理解，这跟大家想象的完全不一样。

So, yeah, it's I just I relate to that because it is not always what people think it's gonna be.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

确实如此。

Exactly.

但关键在于，绝对不是说哪个就一定比另一个更好。

But it's definitely, I guess I guess the big thing though is it's definitely not saying like one is better than the other.

根本不是这个意思。

That's not it at all.

如果你得出这样的理解，那你就误解了。

And if if that's the understanding you're gonna come away with, then you're you're kind of reading it wrong.

或者

Or

你只是在听别人怎么说。

you're listening to what other people are saying.

是的。

Yeah.

把别人的话当真，其实并不是这样。

And taking that as truth, and it's not.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

再说一遍，如果你愿意换个角度想一想，比如女性养育孩子的那份责任。

And and again, like, look, you know, if you wanna if you wanna flip things on their head and kinda go the other route, like, the the job that women have of nurturing their children.

再说一遍，我得先说明一下，我知道肯定有人会说，总有例外情况。

And again, you know, just put that caveat, I know that there's somebody out there that's gonna say, you know, there's exceptions.

确实是有例外，但女性往往倾向于选择那些需要 nurturing 的职业，这背后是有原因的。

And there are, there are exceptions, but there's also a reason that women tend to go towards even careers where they nurture.

想想心理治疗师、中小学老师、护士，她们选择这些职业，就是因为喜欢照顾别人。

Whereas think about therapists or school teachers or nurses, and they want to nurture.

这种照顾的倾向，正是她们真正热衷的部分。

That's part of the thing that they're really into.

所以，她们自然而然就承担了这样的角色。

So they just kind of have that role.

但这并不意味着谁比谁更高明。

Again, it's not a better than them.

这只是现实——我们每个人都有自己的角色要扮演。

It's just a reality that we each kind of have our own role that we have to play in this.

这跟谁更重要、谁更次要没关系。

It is not about one being more important than the other.

但我当时想说的是，有个挺奇怪的研究。

But where I was going with that is like there was a weird study done.

说实话，这个研究真的很糟糕。

It is an awful study if I am really honest.

它是在上世纪三十年代做的。

It was done in, the the nineteen thirties.

三十年代，而且顺便说一句，这是在美国进行的。

And, the nineteen thirties and they they they and this was by the way, this was in America.

他们测试了如果孩子得不到关爱会怎样。

They tested they tested what would happen if a child was not nurtured.

结果简直太可怕了，因为死亡率太高，研究不得不中途终止。

And let's just say that it was awful, like they had to stop the study because because of the mortality rates.

天啊，真的吗。

Oh, wow.

是啊。

Yeah.

这太可怕了。

That's horrible.

所以呢。

So.

是啊。

So yeah.

对。

Yeah.

其实呢，我觉得我们以前可能聊过这个，说不定我以前也问过类似的问题。

Well, that's I just I I know we probably kinda talked about this before, and maybe that's even been one of my questions in the past.

我不太确定。

I don't know.

但你知道吗，当我听到别人提起这事，就觉得挺有意思的，因为这其实挺常见的。

But it is you know, it's interesting when I hear people bring it up because that's kind of a common thing.

我经常在网上看到有人说，什么基督徒啊，女人最好别说话啊，其实根本不是那么回事。

I see a lot of people online say that too and, like, say stuff about, oh, these Christians and, you know, oh, women better not talk or it's like, that's not what it's saying at all.

是的

Yeah.

你知道的

You know?

不知道

No.

不知道

No.

不知道

No.

不知道

No.

但如果很多人这么说，而你又不去查证，也不去问牧师的话。

But if enough people say it and you don't research it or you don't ask a pastor.

对

Yeah.

你知道吗，很多人根本不去深究，听到什么就当真了。

You know, to explain what's really going on, people just believe it as a fact.

他们还说，我家里人就讲过，圣经里说女人不如男人。

And they start saying I and my, you know, my family member was saying, Well, it says in the Bible that women are less than men.

我不觉得圣经里有这意思。

I don't think it says that.

对。

Yeah.

你知道的，

You know,

所以呢，再说一遍，如果你仔细看，确实有些经文表面上好像在说这个，但关键是要从角色的角度去理解，而不是从价值高低来看。

so well, and again, if you know, and again, I'm trying to think of some verses that they might say and and you know there are some verses that might seem to say that but again it is one of those things where you have got to look at it in terms of role and not so much in terms of value.

我们正是在这么做。

That is what we are doing.

你看，文化上我们总喜欢把问题归结为价值高低，但圣经根本不是这个意思。

You see as a culture we have a tendency to make it in terms of value, and that's just not what the Bible is saying.

经文并不是说夏娃比亚当价值低，只是在某些角色上，亚当可能承担更重要的职责。

It's not saying that, like, Eve is less value than Adam, but there are certain roles where maybe in that role, Adam has a higher value than.

没错。

Sure.

但在其他角色上，夏娃的价值反而会高于亚当。

But just there's other roles where Eve is going to have a higher value than than Adam.

对。

Right.

我们每个人都有自己擅长的方面。

We all have our specialties sort of to say.

但是。

But

是的。

Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.