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大家好，我们是Dan和Andy。今天我们有个激动人心的嘉宾要宣布，然后我们还要道个歉，接着
Hi, everybody. Dan and Andy here. And we have an announcement of our exciting guest today. And then we have an apology to make, and then
我们还有个令人兴奋的消息要公布。这是个惊喜三明治。没错。今天加入我们播客的是我们的偶像之一，多年来我们一直在阅读她的著作，而她本人最近也激动地踏入了播客领域。这位就是历史学家玛丽·比尔德。
we have another exciting announcement. It's an excitement sandwich. That's true. Joining us on the podcast today is one of our heroes, someone that we've been reading the books of for many years now and who excitingly has just entered the world of podcasting herself. That is the historian Mary Beard.
是的。玛丽是
Yes. Mary is one of
英国最著名的古典学家之一。她才华横溢，对古代世界无所不知。更令人兴奋的是，她的新播客《古典万象》刚刚上线，名为《瞬间经典》。
Britain's best known classicists. She's brilliant. She knows everything there is to know about the ancient world. And excitingly, her new podcast, All About Classics, has just launched. It's called Instant Classics.
节目非常风趣又有趣。第一集探讨的是哪位罗马皇帝像唐纳德·特朗普。如果你喜欢巴里的风格，又想多了解古代世界，快去听听《瞬间经典》吧。
It's it's very funny and interesting. Episode one is which Roman emperor is Donald Trump. So if you like The Sound of Barry's stuff and you'd like to learn a bit more about the ancient world, check out Instant Classic.
没错。她和才华横溢的作家夏洛特·希金斯共同主持，节目特别有趣。她们还会围绕《奥德赛》开展读书会，一定要关注哦。
That's right. She co hosts it with a brilliant author called Charlotte Higgins. It's a very funny show. They're gonna be doing a book club based on the Odyssey. So do check it out.
在所有播客平台都能收听。另外有件事我们得道歉，安迪。好吧。我们收到了
Available wherever you get your podcasts. Another thing that we need to say is sorry, Andy. Alright. We've had
扎克·罗索林斯基的来信，他说在最近一期的开场白中，你们提到国际空间站的宇航员无法参加即将举行的伦敦播客节远程直播，因为他们没有WiFi。这不是事实。他说空间站确实有WiFi，虽然更多用于导航等用途而非下载播客，但宇航员有经过批准的下载材料清单。所以我们只需要进入国际空间站的批准材料列表，他们就能在九月参与活动了。
some correspondence from, Zach Rosolinski who says, in the intro to your most recent episode, you said astronauts on the ISS could not attend your forthcoming remote live show at the London Podcast Festival because they do not have Wi Fi. This is not true. He says, the ISS does have Wi Fi, although it is more used for navigation and whatnot than downloading podcasts. But astronauts do have an approved list of downloadable materials. So all we need to do is get onto the International Space Station list of approved materials, and then they too will be able to attend on the September.
而且活动结束后一周内，朋友们，你们稍晚购票仍可观看伦敦播客节《无鱼不欢》的现场演出。这些节目会非常精彩。
And for a week afterwards, guys, you can buy your tickets a bit late and still stream the London Podcast Festival. No such thing as a fish live shows. They're gonna be great.
没错。9月5日《我爸写了小黄书》的杰米·莫顿将加入我们，6日还有理查德·奥斯曼。绝对精彩。如果赶不上这些现场演出，猜怎么着？我们还要宣布另一场现场演出。
That's right. We've got Jamie Morton of My Dad Wrote a Porno joining us on the September 5, and then Richard Osman joining us on the sixth. It's gonna be awesome. But if you can't make it to those live shows, guess what? We are announcing another live show.
我们的杯子满溢。你的杯子满溢。所有的杯子都太满了。10月16日来切尔滕纳姆吧。我们将在切尔滕纳姆文学节上演出，那场演出还有一位特别嘉宾，就是才华横溢的瑞秋·帕里斯。
Our cup runneth over. Your cup runneth over. The cups are all too full. Come to Cheltenham on the October 16. We are playing the Cheltenham Literature Festival, and we have a special guest for that show too, who's the brilliant Rachel Paris.
所以这将非常精彩。所有这些活动的详情，包括切尔滕纳姆和伦敦播客节，都可以在nosuchthingasafish.com/live上找到。跟我一起说，丹。
So it's gonna be amazing. Details of all of this stuff, Cheltenham and the London Podfest are on nosuchthingasafish.com/live. Say it with me, Dan.
切尔滕纳姆。没有鱼这回事。不，没有鱼这回事。nosuchthingasafish.com/live。没错。除了宇航员，所有人都被邀请来切尔滕纳姆。我们不会让任何宇航员进来。
Cheltenham. No such thing as a So no such thing as no such thingasafish.com/live. That's right. Everyone's invited to Cheltenham except astronauts. We we will not be letting any astronauts in.
但其他人都来吧。好了，继续播客。
But everyone else, come along. Okay. On with the podcast.
继续演出。
On with the show.
大家好，欢迎收听新一期的《没有鱼这回事》，这是一档每周播客，来自霍本的QI办公室。我是丹·施赖伯。和我一起的有詹姆斯·哈金、安德鲁·亨特·默里和玛丽·比尔德。我们再次围坐在麦克风前，分享过去七天里我们最喜欢的四个事实。不分先后顺序，现在开始。
Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing As A Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn. My name is Dan Schreiber. I am sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter Murray, and Mary Beard. And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days. And in no particular order, here we go.
从第一个事实开始，玛丽，请讲。
Starting with fact number one, and that is Mary.
好的。我的事实是这个问题的答案。谁是历史上以奖金收入计算收入最高的运动员？谢天谢地。
Right. My fact is the answer to this question. Who was or is the highest earning sportsperson of all time measured in prize money? Thank God.
玛丽，不知道你是否知道，我是个超级高尔夫球迷。听众们都知道我喜欢谈论高尔夫，答案是泰格·伍兹。
I don't know if you know this, Mary, but I'm a massive golf fan. The listeners will know that I love going on about golf and it's Tiger Woods.
好吧，继续做梦吧。
Well, dream on.
做梦去吧
Dream on
因为实际上这个人叫盖乌斯·阿普列乌斯·迪奥克勒斯。
because actually it's a man called Gaius Apuleius Diocles.
他也是高尔夫球手吗？
Is he also a golfer?
迪奥克勒斯那个年代高尔夫还没发明呢。不，他是罗马战车竞技冠军，他的墓碑——我们姑且认为信息可靠——告诉我们，他的职业生涯总收入超过3500万塞斯特斯。我先用罗马货币说，再告诉你们相当于现在多少钱。要知道换算总是很困难，这么说吧，3500万塞斯特斯足够供应整个罗马城一百万人口一年的基本生活物资。
Golf hadn't been invented when Diocles was around. No, he is a Roman champion charioteer, and his tombstone let's assume it's reliable tells us that over his career, he earned and I'm going to give you in Roma money first and then I'll tell you how much it is he earned more than 35,000,000 sesterces. Now, it's always kind of difficult saying, So how much is that in today's money then? Well, let me say that that much 35,000,000 sesterces would be enough to feed the whole population of the city of Rome, that's a million of them, in basic supplies for one year.
好吧。
Okay.
对，所以我们说的是数十亿英镑的量级。
Right, so we're dealing with billions of pounds.
那泰格·伍兹能养活多少人，詹姆斯？
How many people can Tiger Woods feed, James?
他自己加上所有情妇吧。所以
Himself and all his mistresses. So
这...这算什么水平？你是说比任何体育明星都多？
what what would that be? Is that that's more than any sports star you're saying?
我是说无论是当今体坛，还是我们有历史记载的任何时期，都无人能及。
I'm saying that it's any sports star today, or any other that we have any historical record about.
对。所以这是刻在他的墓碑上的。是的。你能就记下我的生卒年份并告诉他们我曾是
Right. So this was on He had this on his tombstone. Yeah. Can you just get my dates and tell them I was
收入最高的体育明星吗？
the highest paid sports star?
那个嘛，我的推断是他实际上并没有说‘我是罗马收入最高的体育明星，顺便一提，我还将成为史上收入最高的体育明星’。他只是列出了获胜次数、赢得奖金数额、效力的队伍——因为他当时正处于球队间的转会慈善市场中。
That is Well, it's my inference is that he doesn't actually say, I'm the highest paid sports star in Rome, and by the way, I'm gonna be the highest paid sports star ever, you know. He just lays it out with number of victories, amount of cash won, what team he was playing for because he's in the transfer market in the charity of teams.
哦。
Oh.
以及奖金总额。
And the total amount of prize money.
不过我喜欢它出现在墓碑上，这就像现在谷歌搜索一个人一样——因为如果你谷歌任何名字，都会显示净资产。
I love it being on a tombstone though, as in it is the equivalent of googling someone today because if you Google any name, you will get net worth.
安迪，在你的墓碑上，
On your tombstone, Andy,
你会
would you
想要刻上‘咯咯笑奖’吗？我不
like chortle award? I don't
喜欢自夸。我不喜欢自夸。
like to boast. I don't like to boast.
这并没有让迪奥克莱斯感到困扰。他非常乐于自夸，所以不必太过谦虚。
That didn't worry Diocles. Diocles was very happy to boast, so don't be too modest.
我想另一个问题是，如果这些信息刻在墓碑上，是否意味着它的来源更可靠？
I guess one other question is, if it's on a tombstone, does that mean it's a more reliable source, would you say?
我们确实好奇这些信息的真实来源，因为它们详细得令人难以置信。比如记载着：他有87场从起跑门出发后从未让出领先位置的胜利，62场后来居上、最后冲刺获胜的场次，以及每场赢得的金额。一种可能是迪奥克莱斯是个真正的数据狂，每晚回家都会写下'19.5万塞斯特斯，通过最后冲刺反超'，记在他的小本本上。更可能的情况是存在某种古代版的《威斯登板球年鉴》。
We do wonder where the info actually came from, because it's absolutely fantastically detailed. It says things like, he had eight seventy victories when he started from the starting gates and never gave up first place. He had six twenty victories when he came from behind and made a last minute dash, and this is the amount of money he earned for each of them. Now, one possibility is that Diocles was a real nerd, and every evening he went home and wrote down $195,000 sesterces having come from behind with a last minute dash, and he kept it in his little notebook. It's more likely that there's a kind of Wisdom's Cricketer Almanac.
没错，我就是这个意思。
Yeah. I'm just gonna say that.
现在的体育迷们不都痴迷统计数据吗？确实如此。
Sports fans right now love statistics, don't Yes.
所以墓碑上刻的其实就是他们整理的统计数据。真不可思议，我觉得...
So, what's on the tombstone is what they've got from the stats. Amazing. I think it's
这太有意思了，但显然没流行起来对吧？他可能以为这会成为潮流，以后所有墓碑都会刻满数据。
That's like so interesting, but he clearly didn't catch on, right? He probably thought this is gonna be huge. Every tombstone's gonna be stat packed from now on.
确实如此。虽然也有其他类似的，但从未达到这种程度。看起来其实很无聊，因为全是数据——就像足球技术统计或者...
That's right. Well, there are a few others, but never quite this. I mean, it looks really boring, because all it is is the stats. It's like, you know, football stats or
板球数据。数据控表示这可不无聊。
cricket stats. Data's saying, that's not boring.
真的能坐在那儿看一整天，海豚统计数据什么的。
Can literally sit there and read that all day. Dolphin stats.
我觉得，你知道，我们真该把老虎伍兹的鼻子也抢过来。
I think, you know, we ought to rob Tiger Woods' nose in it, really.
哦，没错。绝对应该。
Oh, yeah. Definitely.
我之前不知道罗马有战车比赛，我知道罗马有战车比赛。但我
I didn't realize that chariot racing I knew chariot racing happened in Rome. But I
我看过《宾虚》。《宾虚》？
I've seen Ben Hur. Ben Hur?
是的。但我原以为罗马在军事上使用战车。听起来似乎没有确凿证据表明他们这么做，因为战车是更古老的装备，在罗马它们用于比赛，而且
Yes. But I assume that Rome used chariots in a military sense. And for it sounds like there's not really any evidence they did because chariots were an older thing, and that in Rome they were for racing, and
没错，战车在军事上有点公关效应，你知道，就是为了吓唬敌人。但本质上，这些拉战车的赛马非常出色，而比赛极其危险。可怜的老迪奥克勒斯四十多岁就死了，他能活那么久已经很幸运了，因为赛道特别长，超过半公里，弯道非常急，你得来回跑，要绕七圈，弯道处最容易翻车，因为你转不过弯来。他们称之为海难，现在叫碎片，就是那种在弯道翻车的战车。观众们都是些极度狂热的疯子。
that's Yeah, there's a bit of military PR with chariots, you know, just to frighten the enemy. But essentially, you get these fantastic racehorses pulling the chariots, and it is a phenomenally dangerous. Poor old Diocles, he died in his 40s, well, he's lucky to stay alive that long because you've got this really long track, more than half a kilometer, with terribly tight ends, so you have to go up and down, you have to go round seven times, and the ends are where you crash because you can't turn round the corner. And they were called shipwrecks, now fraggier, that's a chariot that kind of crashes at the corners. And the fans were absolutely obsessive loonies.
有记载说观众们非常照顾赛马，真的很关心它们。他们过去常做的一件事就是闻马粪。好吧。因为他们非常担心马匹的饲料是否正确。如果你想赛马拉战车跑得快，就必须确保它们的饮食得当。
And there are accounts of the fans really looking after the racehorses, really looking out for them. And one of the things they used to do is they used to sniff their shit Okay. Because they were really anxious that they were being fed the right stuff. Because if you want to have a racehorse pulling the chariot really quick, then you've got to make sure that it's given the right diet.
我试着在另一端检查。我会检查马蹄。你
I try and check at the other end of the process. I would try and check the feet. You
可能会觉得那是最简单的，但他们知道你想了解的是排出的东西。
would have thought that was the easiest, but they knew that you wanted to know what came out.
我简直不敢相信我在读关于尼禄的事。尼禄皇帝在希腊巡游时，他对战车比赛如此痴迷，以至于决定在公元67年参加奥运会，尽管那时根本没有奥运会。
I couldn't believe I was reading about Nero. So Emperor Nero, he's on a tour of Greece. He is so into chariot racing that he decides to enter the Olympics in sixty seven AD when there is no Olympics.
没关系。
That's okay.
这不是这不是偶然。
It's it's not it's not chance.
你有个
You've a
在非奥运年获胜的几率要大得多。
much better chance of winning in a non Olympic year.
不。因为他会调整它。
No. Because he moves it.
他会调整它。想象一下——我不是特指某位美国总统——但想象美国总统抵达某个国家想参赛，但时间其实不太合适。他们就会调整时间，对吧？是的，就是这么操作的。
He moves it. But imagine, and I'm not naming any particular president of The United States, but imagine the president of The United States arrives in some country and wants to participate, but it's not actually being quite timed. Well, they just move it, don't they? Yeah. That's what you do.
是啊。下一届足球世界杯在美国举办，
Yeah. The next World Cup football is in America,
不会吧，天啊。
isn't Oh, god.
我能想象要收拾的场面。
I can imagine tidying up.
但这故事很离奇，因为那时候奥运会与宗教仪式绑定，必须在特定年份举办。现在这些规矩都废除了。他参赛了。奥运会上你的战车要配四匹马。
But that story is extraordinary because back then, the Olympics were tied into religious connotations. They had it in a specific year, the religious rites. So all of that's out the window. He joins. You you have four horses to your chariot in the Olympics.
他带着十匹马出场，然后抄近道，翻车了，输了比赛，却还是赢了。
He shows up with 10 horses, and then cuts a corner, flips over, loses the race, and still wins it.
就像特朗普先生和高尔夫一样。对。没错。完全一样。有一点你清楚，就是别想赢过皇帝。
Just like mister Trump and golf. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely the same. One thing you know is you don't want to beat the emperor.
是啊。但当时有些暗箱操作。我读到过——不知真假——白队和红队，我们在文献中对它们知之甚少。但有个地方经常提到它们，就是在诅咒板上。对。
Yeah. But there was some underhand tactics that went on. I read, I don't know if this is true, that the white team and the red team, we don't really know much about them in literature. But one place that we do see them a lot is in curse tablets. Yep.
因为很多作弊手段就是下咒。对。你的意思是...是这样吗？对。但按规定是不能
Because a lot of the cheating was cursing Yeah. Your Is that right? Yeah. But it was against the rules to
诅咒别人的。
curse people.
真的吗？你会想，那谁来执行这规定呢？
Really? You're like, who was gonna enforce it then?
是啊。神明？也许吧。
Yeah. The gods? Maybe.
对。你怎么...你总不能检查战车手拉出的屎来判断他们有没有违规吧？那种事...可以悄无声息地干。
Yeah. How do you You can't check the poo coming out of the cursor to see if they've done it right? Like, that's You can do that silently.
而且...大竞技场和斗兽场明显不同，后者严格性别隔离，只准男性入座，直到最顶层的糟糕座位才允许女性就座。而大竞技场多数时候男女混坐，显然是个绝佳的调情场所，约会的热门地点。
And there It was the Circus Maximus was clearly unlike the Colosseum, which was rigidly sex segregated, men only, until you got to the really bad seats at the top and the women could sit. For most of the time, the men and women sat together in the Circus Maximus, and it's absolutely clear that it was a prime flirt location, A pickup joint.
想跟我去闻些刺鼻的玩意儿吗？
Do you wanna come with me and smell some harsh shit?
你想跟我一起吗？实际上比那要稍微含蓄些。就像是，呃，你介意我经过你去我的座位吗？哦，我碰到你的膝盖了吗？非常抱歉。
You wanna come with me? It's slightly more subtle than that, actually. It's like, you know, do you mind terribly if I pass you by to get to my seat? Oh, did I rub your knee? I'm terribly sorry.
好吧，享受十月马节吧
Well, have the October horse
这个仪式相当有趣。
ritual, which is quite interesting.
很有学问。
Very learned.
是啊。所以这是第一次有人这么说
Yeah. So that's so That is the first time anyone said that
对你。
to you.
你不能把这段从节目里剪掉。我已经声明了
You are not editing that out of the show. I've stated
那是你的手机铃声。这是我的。
that's your ringtone. That's mine.
你搜索了罗马马然后找到了八度马。
You googled Roman horse and have found the octave horse.
我做不到
I can't do
一个备份
a backup
正在处理。
on it.
就是这样
It's it
那刚才那样挺好的。
was that was that was good now.
抱歉，我不行。
Sorry. I No.
但这个想法很有趣——作为仪式的一部分，人们会向神明献祭一匹马，并举行一场双人战车比赛。胜者方两匹马中右侧的那匹会被斩首，然后胜者...对，因为是献给神明的。所以这本质上是一种献祭
But it's that's that's that's a very interesting idea that it was part of a ritual that you'd sacrifice a horse to the gods and there would be a race, a chariot race where two people would race against each other. Whoever won, the right hand horse of the two horses would have its head taken off and then The winner? Yes. Because it was for the gods. So you were sacrificing
给神明
to the gods
对吧？接着会有两人搏斗争夺马头，获胜者将马头悬挂在屋外。但想想看，如果你还需要这匹马参加下一场比赛却赢了这场，那一刻肯定有点糟心。
right? And then a fight would happen between two people to see who could keep the head, and then that would be displayed outside of a house. But that must be a slightly distressing moment when, you know, you need your horse for another race, and you win that one.
不，这很值得。因为...荣誉啊。懂吗？
No. It was worth it because Yeah. Because of the prestige of Right. You know?
关于斯巴达女战车冠军辛尼斯卡？是的，我读到的是她赢得了奥运金牌，但可能并没有亲自驾驶战车。
About Siniska, the Spartan female chariot winner? Yes. So what I read is that she won the Olympic golds, but maybe she wasn't on the chariots.
是的。我是说，有个问题不在于罗马，我可以告诉你在罗马，迪奥克莱斯是战车上的赢家。而在希腊，传统希腊时期，尼禄的情况就不清楚了，到底是战车主人获胜还是战车手获胜。所以有时候人们会说，哦，某某女性赢得了战车比赛，那是因为她拥有那辆战车。
Yeah. I mean, there is a problem about not in Rome, I can tell you in Rome, Diocles was on the chariot and a winner. In Greece, in traditional Greece, Nero, it's not clear whether it's the chariot owner who is the winner or the charioteer. So sometimes when people say, Oh, so and so, female, won the chariot race, that is because she owned the chariot.
这就像女王赢得了全国大赛马一样。
This is like the queen winning the grand national.
女王赢得了全国大赛马。她不是她不是她并没有跨过那些障碍
The queen winning the grand national. She's not she's not She wasn't going over beaches She
她从未骑过那匹马？没有。
was never on the horse? No.
她只是在它结束后拍拍它
She's just patching it when it
完成时。对。对。
finishes. Yeah. Yeah.
这其实是个重要的工作。
That's an important job, actually.
那么也许这个女人可能训练过这些马匹。是这样吗？
So But maybe this woman might have trained the horses. Is that right?
可能做过。
Might have done.
我们只是不知道。
We just don't know.
但你
But you
不知道。
don't know.
你不知道。
You don't know.
所以最后，迪奥克莱斯退休了。真的吗？他可是亿万富翁中的亿万富翁。他做了什么？难道他接管了整个国家
So then finally, Diocles, he retires. Does he? He's a billion billion billionaire. What does he do? Does he like take over the country
只有天知道。我们毫无头绪。
God only. Well, we have no clue.
就这么消失了。
Just disappears.
他做了什么，住在哪里。他可能最初是现代葡萄牙的奴隶。实际上，我们认为他来自那里，但在罗马发迹。你知道，如果他有3500万塞斯特斯，他就能买得起宫殿。是的。
What he does, where he lived. He probably starts life as a slave in modern Portugal. Actually, that's where we think he comes from, but makes it big in Rome. You know, if he's got 35,000,000 sesterces, then he can afford a palace. Yeah.
但我们完全不知道他住在哪里。也许他生活非常简朴，把赢来的钱都给了人民，但如果他这么做了，墓碑上可没告诉我们。
But we don't have no clue where he lived. Perhaps he just lived very modestly and gave his winnings to the people, but if he did, he didn't tell us on his tombstone.
你会把那刻在墓碑上。
You'd put that up there.
是啊。我可能会说，他把钱都捐出去了。是的。
Yeah. I think I might say, and he gave it all away. Yeah.
我不知道他来自葡萄牙，因为那肯定让克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多很受伤，他是
I didn't know he was from Portugal because that must hurt Cristiano Ronaldo who's
正想说罗纳尔多。没错。
was gonna say Ronaldo. Yeah.
甚至不是最富有的运动员
Not even the richest Spotsman
来自葡萄牙。我们知道他为何如此出色吗？是什么造就了他
from Portugal. Do we know why he was so good? What made him
我会说是运气。对吧。
I'd say luck. Right.
但他没有翻车。
But he didn't flip over.
就像那主要是...我知道那是结果。我在问原因。是退一步的问题吗？
Like that's largely I I know that's the result. I'm asking why. Is it one stage back?
对。但我想起斯蒂芬·布拉德伯里，那位澳大利亚花样滑冰选手——哦不，速滑选手，他在半决赛中因前面选手全部摔倒而获胜，接着决赛时完全相同的情况再次发生。沃夫·迪克利斯表现糟糕，而他只是不断追赶，其他人都遭遇了滑铁卢。
Yeah. But I I think of Stephen Bradbury, the, the Australian figure skater who oh, speed skater who won the Olympic gold because in the semifinals, everyone in front of him fell over then he won. And then in the finals, exactly the same thing happened. Wurf Dikelees was just terrible and he just kept coming up back and everyone was shipwrecked.
他就是坚持到底。绝不放弃。是的。不过我觉得他可能有个强大的粉丝团支持，所以。
He just kept going. He just didn't give up. Yeah. But I think he probably had a good a good fan base, so.
是的。我是。
Yes. I am.
他们当时在为他欢呼。
They were cheering him on.
伙计们，我们该继续前进了。
We we should move on, guys.
在我们继续之前，我能先澄清一个谣言吗？好的。这是我们邮箱里经常收到的一个说法。非常感谢所有发来这个信息的人，但这不是真的。这关于战车和罗马马的尺寸。
Can I put one myth to bed before we Okay? Yeah. This is something we get sent all the time in the fish inbox. And thank you very much to everyone who sent it in, it's not true. And it's about chariots and it's about Roman horses.
嗯哼。说的是航天飞机火箭助推器的尺寸直接参考了罗马马的体型。
Uh-huh. It's that the size of the space shuttle rocket boosters was directly based on the size of Roman horses.
你是指那些任务吗？好的。
Like the missions you mean? Yeah. Okay.
对。有个说法经常被发来，说英国和美国的标准铁路轨距是四英尺八点五英寸，因为铁路轨距参考了电车轨道，而电车轨道又参考了马车，马车则是根据古罗马道路上的车辙宽度设计的——那些道路是为两匹并行的罗马战马修建的。
Yeah. There's this thing that gets sent in all the time and it's that the standard railway gauge on British railways and American ones is four foot eight and a half inches and that is because the railway gauge was based on trams and those are based on wagons and wagons were based on wheel ruts on old roads. Roads that were built by the Romans that were based on the size of two Roman horses walking next to each
的。好吧。
other Okay.
因为战车需要。
Because of chariots.
精彩的事实。
Great fact.
不。不是这样的。
No. No.
是时候向前看了。一切都在那里。
It's time to move on. It's all there.
这根本不是真的。这完全是胡说八道。
It's just not true. It's it's cobblers.
这是胡说八道。
It's cobblers.
你想要它是。
Do you wanna it's.
不。你要知道，你已经做了研究。
No. You've got know, you've done the research.
为什么这是胡说八道？
Why is it cobblers?
我只是知道这是胡说八道，但是
I just know it's cobblers, but
这就像，嗯，就像说实际上所有的衣服都是基于古代的衣服，因为它们的大小大致相同。就像，碰巧的是，如果你在修建一条路，你不会把它建得200英尺宽。就像这仅仅是，是的。这在某种程度上要么是以一种微不足道的方式间接正确，要么就不是真的。但没有证据表明在斯托克顿和达灵顿铁路之间使用了那种特定的尺寸，就是这样。
It's like well, it's like saying that actually all clothes are based on ancient clothes because they're roughly the same size. Like, it's it happens to be the case that if you're building a road, you don't build it so it's 200 feet wide. Like it's just Yeah. It's it's sort of it's either indirectly true in a trivial way or it's not really true. But there's no evidence of that specific size being used in between the Stockton And Darlington railway and there you go.
嗯，
Well,
别再把它发给我们了。谢谢。他每次来上班都让每个人非常不安。每次都是。
stop sending it into us. Thank you. He comes into work very upset everybody. Every time.
停下播客。停下播客。
Stop the podcast. Stop the podcast.
大家好。只是想告诉大家，本周的《鱼》节目由Squarespace赞助播出。
Hi, everybody. Just wanted to let you know this week's episode of fish is sponsored by Squarespace.
没错。你知道Squarespace。它是一站式平台，帮你建立在线门户、搭建网站，让你能轻松运营整个业务，无需像大企业那样面临各种运营难题——因为它实在太容易使用了。
Yes. You know Squarespace. It is the one stop shop to set up your online platform, build your website, and make it so that you can run an entire business without having any of the troubles that a lot of big businesses have functioning it because it's so damn easy to use.
是的。所有功能集于一身，这正是它的精妙之处。无论你是想销售商品、吸引客户，还是发展业务，Squarespace都提供你所需的所有工具。它有出色的设计功能，能打造出既亮眼又专业的视觉效果。
Yes. It's all in one place. That's the brilliant thing about it. So if you are trying to sell things, you're trying to attract clients, if you're trying to grow your business, Squarespace has all the tools you might need. There's fantastic design, so you can make something that looks brilliant and professionally designed.
还有SEO工具，能让你的网站获得更多曝光，吸引更多目标客户。如果你在筹款，可以直接通过网站接受捐款。所有这些工具都集成在Squarespace里。
There are SEO tools, which allows your website to show up more and bring in more of your ideal customers. There are donations. If you're fundraising, you can do it directly through the website. All of these tools exist on Squarespace.
没错。它确实是理想之选。如今你访问的大部分网站很可能都是基于Squarespace搭建的。所以如果你想创办公司或展示个人作品，何不加入这个平台呢？只需访问squarespace.com/nstaaf，首次购买网站或域名即可享受9折优惠。
Yeah. It really is the perfect place. Most of the websites that you'll go to these days probably are a Squarespace website. So why not get on board with that if you wanna get your own company on the go or just a personal website to showcase your stuff? And you can do that by heading to squarespace.com/nstaaf, and you will save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
没错。而且你还能获得
That is right. And you can get
免费试用——只要访问丹刚才提到的squarespace.com/nstaaf。先免费试用，等准备正式上线时，还能享受他说的那个9折优惠。完美。现在就行动吧。
a free trial, by the way, if you go to the website Dan named there, squarespace.com/nstaaf. You get the free trial. And then when you're ready to launch, you get that 10% off that he mentioned as well. Perfect. Do it now.
好了。你还等什么呢？
Okay. What are you waiting for?
还等什么？呃，先听完这期节目吧。
What are you waiting for? Well, finish the episode.
结束节目。
Finish show.
好的。继续播客。继续节目。好了。现在是第二个事实的时间，那是我的事实。
Alright. On with the podcast. On with the show. Okay. It is time for fact number two, and that is my fact.
我这周的事实是，因为南方邦联将军“石墙”杰克逊认为他的一只手臂比另一只大得多，所以他经常走路时把那只手臂举在空中，以便重新分配那只手臂占用的血液。这件事被多次记载。不知为何，我在讲述这个事实时也举起了手。你
My fact this week is that because the confederate general Stonewall Jackson believed that one of his arms was much larger than the other, he used to walk around with it held in the air just so that he could redistribute all of the blood it was hogging. So this is this is written about quite a few times. I'm holding my hand up, for some reason as I was telling that fact. You
现在可以放下了。
can put it down now.
是的。放下。
Yes. Down.
是的。谢谢。“石墙”杰克逊。他全名托马斯·乔纳森·“石墙”·杰克逊，1824年至1863年。他是南方邦联的将军、军事官员，被视为那个时期最有天赋的战术军官之一。
Yes. Thank you. Stonewall Jackson. He was called Thomas Jonathan Stonewall Jackson, 1824 to 1863. He was a confederate general, military officer, and he was seen as one of the most gifted tactical officers of that period.
即使是像林肯这样显然不喜欢他的人也说，嗯，那个人很厉害。你知道，他们都某种程度上承认这一点。但他也有点古怪，是个疑病症患者，其中一件事是他相信自己有一只异常长的手臂，那只手臂基本上吸走了他身体其他部分需要的血液。
Even people like Lincoln, who obviously did not like him said, well, that guy was good. You know, they all sort of acknowledged it. But he was also a bit of an eccentric, a hypochondriac, and one of the things was he believed he had one incredibly long arm and that it was basically sucking up all the blood that he needed for the rest of his
有他的照片吗？比如，显然不是照片，但有吗？不。有照片吗？
any pictures of him? Like, obviously not photos, but are there No. Are photos.
1860年代。
Eighteen sixties.
是的。那会是
Yeah. It would be
那个手臂特别长的人呢？
the And he with really long arms?
不，他们大概在领口位置就截断了，所以从我所见来看，你其实看不到他的手臂。
No. He they sort of cut it off at the the sort of neckline, so you don't really get to see it from what I've seen.
他在隐藏什么？大手臂。
What's he hiding? Big arm.
他不能
Can't he
直接测量一下吗？
just measure it?
我似乎 是的。但是
I seems Yeah. But
这不是岩石大小的问题。
this It's not rocky size.
我觉得他也感觉它更大。总的来说，他感觉可能肌肉量减少了。一旦
I think he felt he felt that it was larger as well. Just generally, he felt like maybe there was less muscle Once
你脑子里有了这个想法，就没法
you've got it into your head, there's no
你知道那个动作吗？你伸出双臂，然后把一只手臂绕到脖子后面，这样它又比另一只短了。
You know that thing where you put your arms out and then you put one of them over the back of your neck and then it's shorter again. Shorter than the other.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
我不知道。实际上我之前并不了解这件事。
I no. I didn't know that actually.
也许他某天在学校这么做了，然后就一直保持着这个习惯
Well, maybe he did that one day at school and then he just got it in the
显然他确实在学校这样做过，但不是作为学生，而是作为教授。学生们常说看到教授举着手坐在那里的样子相当怪异
Well, apparently, did do it at school but not school as a student, as a professor. Students used to say it was pretty weird seeing the professor sitting with his hand
像要提问似的举着手
up like he had a question
结果发现那就是他的习惯动作。他甚至会举着手骑马奔赴战场。事实上他的手高举时曾中弹，差点导致截肢，但后来痊愈了。
and it turns out that's what he was doing. And he would ride into war with his hand in the air. In fact, he got shot through the hand when his hand was up in the air like a target and almost had his hand amputated but it healed.
那是布尔溪战役吧？内战期间他参加过很多战役。不过后来他的死因确实与手部受伤有关。
That was the Battle of Bill Run, wasn't it? He was in loads of battles during the civil war. Yeah. But he then had a a hand related I mean, his death was hand injury related. Yeah.
但我查不到具体是哪只手。
But I can't find which hand it was.
没错。很奇怪我们无从得知，至少快速浏览大量资料后，都没说明被击中的是否是他惯用的手臂。
Exactly. It's so weird that we don't know or at least from a cursory reading of a lot of sources, they don't say if it was the big arm that got shot.
因为他当时确实被解职了。对。这事发生在1860年。肯定是1860年代某年，对吧？
Because he was he was frankly fired. Yeah. He was this was in 1860. Certainly eighteen sixty something, wasn't it?
'63年。
'63.
是的，谢谢。这是1863年的事。他因外出侦察时被自己人——一些南方联盟军的士兵误认为敌方部队而遭枪击，最终不得不截肢。嗯哼。
Yeah. Thank you. So this was 1863. He was shot because he was out doing a bit of reconnaissance and some some of his own troops, some confederate troops saw an approaching party, opened fire. He then had to have his arm amputated Uh-huh.
那条手臂后来得到了完整的基督教葬礼，因为原本它差点被扔到手术帐篷外那堆残肢上。
And that was given a full Christian burial because it was about to be thrown on the tent on the pile of limbs outside the surgical tent.
嗯哼。
Uh-huh.
但随军牧师认为，这是一条英勇的手臂，是将军的手臂，应该保存并安葬。而他几天后去世了，我们推测是死于肺炎。
But the military chaplain thinks, look, this is a heroic arm. This is a general's arm. We should keep it and bury it. And he died several days later. We think he had pneumonia.
你知道，突然间
You know, suddenly
呃，他的
Well, had his
手臂被截掉了。对。肯定是手臂断了。我
arm cut off. Yeah. Certainly arm broke. I
觉得是感冒要了他的命。全是
think it was the sniffle that killed him. Was all
全是
it was all
他得了肺炎。
He had pneumonia.
这与他中枪有关。绝对是的。绝对。但他们问他妻子，是否想把手臂取回来？她回答，不用了。
It was him being shot related. Absolutely. Absolutely. But and they said to his wife, would you like us to get the arm back? And she said, no.
它已经接受了基督教葬礼，应该留在原处。因为他的另一个鲜明特征就是极度虔诚。据说他连喝水前、拆信封前、甚至写祷告前都要祈祷，这是他的常态。总之，他的手臂从未被接回。
It's had a Christian burial, so it should stay where it is. Because that was the one of his other defining characteristics was he was extremely religious. He apparently he would pray before having a glass of water, or before opening an envelope, or before writing a prayer was his constant. Okay. And anyway, so he's never been reunited with his arm.
至今那手臂仍埋在那里，上面还立着墓碑。
And it's there to this day with a tombstone above it.
墓碑上刻着字...上面写的什么来着？
And he's got yeah. It's got the writing on it that what says does it say?
写着'他比任何南方邦联将领赚得都多'。其实就刻着'石墙杰克逊之臂'。这墓碑被挪动过几次，现在可能正对着他的手臂，也可能不在原位了。
Says he earned more than any other confederate general. It just says arm of Stonewall Jackson. And that's been moved around a couple of times. So it might be directly above his arm now, it might not. But the arm was moved a bit.
有意思。确实。
Interesting. Yeah.
他不是在故意吸引火力吗？作为统帅冲锋时还高举着手...
Didn't he draw attention to himself, rather? I mean, you're kind of going into battle, and you're the lead general, if you've your hand up
对啊，直接被子弹贯穿了。
Yeah. I mean, literally shot through.
真是...蠢透了。
Yeah. Just is nice. Completely stupid.
你肯定不想脑袋挨枪子儿。
You don't wanna be shot in your head.
不，你没事的。其实你大可以戴顶帽子，对，让自己看起来特别高。再配个小西装外套。
No, you're alright. In fact, what you would probably put a hat on it. Yeah. To seem like you're really tall. And a little suit around.
好吧。要我说，如果你已经有个怪人的名声了
Okay. Here are. I think if you've got a reputation as an eccentric already
尽管去做就是了。
Just go for it.
放手去做吧。
Go for Yeah.
其实说到穿着，他在其他将领中以不穿华丽服饰著称。
Actually, speaking of clothing, he was well known amongst his other generals for not wearing flamboyant clothing.
明白了。
Okay.
没错。因为战争时期军官得自掏腰包买衣服，没有统一制服。你得穿得和其他人差不多，颜色款式相近，但那些有钱人——军官通常都挺阔绰——他们会买最花哨又不逾矩的行头。可他偏不这么干，人们觉得这很可疑
Right. Because in the war, like, the officers had to pay for their own clothes, you didn't get a uniform. And you had to kind of wear things that are about similar to the other guys, a similar color and stuff, but the richer people in there, and often the officers were rich, they would just buy the most flamboyant thing they could get away with. But he didn't do that and people thought it was a bit sus I
他年轻时特别穷对吧？没错。他出身赤贫，是一步步爬上来的
he was very poor, wasn't he? As a young man. Yeah. He grew up extremely poor and scrabbled his way up through
那他是怎么当上将军的？
So how did he become a general?
想想人才。
Think Talent.
我认为纯粹的天赋。哦对。还有一条滑稽的手臂。
I think A sheer talent. Oh yeah. And a and a funny arm.
我觉得他是
I think he was
他想当将军。可以啊。回头见
He wants to be a general. Can Yeah. See you over
他是，我的意思是显然他——撇开内战的政治因素——是个杰出的战术家。他死后不久就爆发了葛底斯堡战役，他刚去世自然错过了。那场战役无疑是战争的重要军事转折点。当时几位其他将军都提到他的缺席对战役的影响。
He was, I mean apparently he was you know, the politics of the civil war aside, he was a brilliant tactician, know. And I think after he died, not long after that came the Battle of Gettysburg which obviously he missed having just died. And that is one of the certainly the huge military turning points of the war was the Battle of Gettysburg. And his absence from it was cited by a couple of other generals at the time. Yeah.
所以结果本可能不同。
So it could it could have changed.
在罗马军队或希腊军队里怎么当上将军的？靠财富吗？是钱的问题？
How did you become a general in like the Roman army or the Greek army? Was it rich? It rich?
是的。通常有两种路径。一种是职业士兵。你可以沿着职业军人的阶梯往上爬，先进入中队，然后成为百夫长，可能最终进入我们所谓的军官培养序列。但那些统帅们直接跳过了这些步骤。
Yes. I mean, there's kind of two strands. One is the career soldier. And you can go up the ladder of a career soldier, get in a squadron, then you become a centurion and you might kind of go up to the sort of what we call the commission tracks, right? But the guys who were leading it, they bypassed all that.
没错。天知道他们是否真有能力。你们一直在讨论那些杰出战术家的故事，让人不禁思考到底怎样才算得上战术天才将军。
Right. And God knows if they're any good or not. Yeah. Or, you know, you guys have been talking about all this brilliant tactician stuff. You sort of wonder what it is to be a brilliantly tactical general.
我花了很多时间研究尤利乌斯·凯撒的战役，因为在美国军事学院的课程里总少不了凯撒——就像老石墙杰克逊一样，都因其将才被研究。但我发现他其实只有一种战术：迂回包抄。正面遭遇敌军时，他的策略永远是绕到后方围剿。
I mean, I've spent a long time looking at Julius Caesar's campaigns because, you know, Caesar is always in America, he's on the syllabus at military academies, you know, how you because of his brilliance as a general, you know, like Old Stonewall. But I started looking, he only had one tactic, because he went round the back, right? Right. You get to face with the army, the opposing army. What you do is you then pen them in from the back.
这就是他一贯的作风。
That's what he does all the time.
你当时肯定觉得自己像个傻瓜，心里想着这次他肯定不会这么做了。
You must have felt like such an idiot when you're going, he won't do it this time.
他不会的
He won't do
这次不会了。
it this time.
他想让我们以为他会这么做，但其实不会。
He wants us to think he's gonna do it, but he's not.
实际上在我看来——虽然因为这种观点我在社交媒体上遭到了猛烈抨击，毕竟有大量人对罗马军事战术极为热衷——我认为整个战略就是那样。基本上就是从后方包围他们
And in fact, it seemed to me, and I've got terrible kind of attacks on social media for saying this because there's an awful lot of people very, very invested in Roman military tactics. I think it's all like that. It's all kind of pen them in from the back
那么他当时统领的罗马军队是否也是其优势？那应该是当时规模最大、实力最强的军队吧？
and Was he also helped by being in charge of the Roman army as well, which was presumably the biggest and best at the time?
在他掌权过程中？当然是的。不过我觉得他们之所以最强最大，纯粹是因为人多势众。
In his rise to power? He sure was. Yeah. I think they're only the biggest and the best because there's more of them. Yeah.
我的意思是，你不可能在战争中击败罗马人。单场战役或许能赢，他们到处吃败仗，在某些方面简直一塌糊涂，比如海军就是个笑话。但他们总能补充更多兵源。所以罗马人可能会输掉战役，但绝不会输掉战争。
I mean, can't defeat the Romans in a war. You can defeat them in a battle. They lose battles all over the place, they're hopeless at something, so they're a laughing stock when it comes to navies. But they've always got more men. So, they can't lose a war, they can lose a battle.
有意思。
Interesting.
那么，难道没有战术上的高明之处吗？好吧，
So, is there not tactical brilliance? Well,
这个发出去了，我肯定会收到更多类似的。你知道，我去过，哇靠，你这白痴，你不懂玛丽·比尔德，对吧？他根本不给予任何信任
this goes out, I shall no doubt get more of these. You know, I've been to, woah, you fucking moron, you don't understand Mary Beard, doesn't he? Doesn't give any credence
你有多少宗教信仰，
How many to the religions do you have,
玛丽玛丽，没错。但如果你问我，他们其实只会一招。
Mary Mary, that's right. But if you ask me, it's they're one trick ponies really.
哇。说到凯撒，回到战车的话题，他在他的《高卢战记》中描述了不列颠入侵。这是我们仅有的几处关于不列颠部落使用军事战车的同期记载。那时战车在罗马早已过时几个世纪了，但我们还在使用它们。
Wow. So Caesar, just to go back to chariots, he described he's in his not his diaries, his account Commentaries. On the British invasion. It's one of the only references we have contemporary to British tribes using military chariots. And they were they they got out of fashion in rhyme for centuries by then, but we we were still using them.
它们就像战场上的优步。对，你可以
And they were like an Uber across the battlefield. Yeah. You get
需要破除的一个重要迷思是：车轮上并没有镰刀。
one really important myth to bust is they didn't have scythes coming out of the wheels.
好吧。
Okay.
不是的。如果你去看泰晤士河堤上的布狄卡雕像，她那对巨大的镰刀轮——我的考古学家朋友告诉我这是个谬传。
Not. No, if you go to look at Boudicca on Thames Embankment, her statue, she's got a great set of scythes about I am told by my archaeological friends that this is a myth.
好吧。
Okay.
太遗憾了。那可是我的战车神话终结者。哇哦。我一直把这个故事投稿给其他播客节目。
Gutted about that. That's my that's my chariot myth buster. Wow. I've been sending that into other podcasts.
快速跳回现代话题。那么，他确实...他确实指挥赢得了许多场战役。
Jumping back to the modern, just very quickly. So, he did he he was responsible for winning a lot of battles.
石墙杰克逊是谁？石墙杰克逊。现代人物。
Who's Stonewall Jackson? Stonewall Jackson. Modern day.
噢，当然比凯撒时代现代得多。他在弗吉尼亚的弗雷德里克斯堡赢得过一场战役，击败了联邦军将领安布罗斯·伯恩赛德——我们播客的老朋友，之前讨论过他。
Oh, well, more certainly more modern than the time of Caesar. But he one of the places that he won was Fredericksburg in Virginia and he beat the federal general who was Ambrose e Burnside, friend of the podcast. We've spoken about him before.
连鬓胡子的发明者。
Inventor of side birds.
连鬓胡子的发明者。后来伯恩赛德的胡子造型，人们觉得...我很喜欢这个造型和名字，但不够完美，于是他们进行了改良。
Inventor of side birds. At some point Burnside, people went it's I love it and I love the name but not quite and they they changed it around. But yeah. To
因为他确实留了副大胡子，对吧？
because he does he had a real set, didn't he?
没错。因为我认为...
Yeah. Because I think
那其实和他的八字胡连在一起的。算不上真正的连鬓胡子。有意思的是，他是个创新者但还没做到尽善尽美
it linked up to his mustache. They weren't really sideburns. It's interesting. He was an innovator before but he hadn't perfected You
知道吗？关于这个话题，我最近读到关于疑病症的资料。现代疑病症的概念是由美国神经学家乔治·比尔德定义的——虽然他的名字叫'比尔德'(意为胡子)，但本人其实不留胡子。
know what? On this subject, I was reading about hypochondria. And modern day hypochondria was invented kind of or defined by an American neurologist called George Beard who didn't have a beard.
而且毫无关联。
And no relation.
没有关联。那ZZ Top乐队的弗兰克·比尔德呢？抱歉，你肯定经常被这么问，但
No relation. What about Frank beard of ZZ Top? Sorry. You must get that all the time, but
我和他没关系。关于
I have no relation. On
战术层面的问题
the tactical side of things
哦，是的。
Oh yeah.
这种技能到底是否存在？还是杰克逊有这方面的天赋？因为他曾在弗吉尼亚军事学院担任过一段时间军事教官，他的学生根本不喜欢他。他们不喜欢他的原因是他讲课无聊得难以置信。他会事先准备好讲义，
And sort of like does the skill exist at all? Or did Jackson have a gift for it? Because he was a military instructor at Virginia Military Institute for a while, and his students did not like him at all. And the reason they didn't like him was that he was an unbelievably dull lecturer. So he would he would compose a lecture.
然后凭记忆背诵，绝不偏离。如果有人提问，他就会在脑海中倒带，找到他预先准备的、认为能回答问题的讲义片段，再原封不动地复述一遍。对，一字不差。
He would recite it from memory. He wouldn't deviate at all. And if anyone asked him a question, he would simply spool back in his head to the the bit of his pre remembered lecture that he thought answered the question and just recite that again. Yeah. Verbatim.
同时微妙地伸出他那异常修长的手臂。
While subtly just reaching out his massive long arms.
没错。我想问这时候他的手臂在干嘛？比如在
Yes. I'm gonna say what did he do with the arm at this point? Like, in
1856年，他的一群校友曾试图以教学不佳为由让他被解雇。而他们
in 1856, a group of his own alumni tried to have him sacked for poor teaching. And they
肯定是在18年
must have In '18
五年后当他成为邦联军队的骄傲时，感觉当时自己真蠢，你知道的，就是那些最伟大的巴拉巴拉之一。当时有很多
felt so stupid just five years later when he is the like pride of the confederate army, you know, one of the greatest blah blah blah. There were a
关于他的谣言满天飞。我觉得这就是那种人们会对他指指点点，但当其他消息源被问及时，他们会说：不，他从没那样做过，我们从未见过。其中一个传言是他总在嚼柠檬、吃柠檬，简直爱柠檬爱到发狂。这被写进了一本传记里，结果所有读过的人都说：我从没见过他拿柠檬。
lot of rumors that were about him. I think this is one of the things where people would say stuff about him and then if they were if other sources were asked, they would say, no, he never did that. We never saw that. One of the things was that he was constantly chewing on lemons, eating lemons, just absolutely love lemons. And that was written in a biography and then everyone who read that went, I never saw him with a lemon.
完全不知道这说法哪来的。
I have no idea where that comes from.
我知道源头。对。这基于1862年6月27日唯一一次有人看见他吃柠檬的记录。
I know where it comes from. Yeah. It's based on a single account of him eating a lemon on the 06/27/1862.
太扯了。
That's bad.
但有三个不同的人都看见他吃了，还全写进了回忆录。所以现在有三个来源都在说：老石墙杰克逊可爱吃柠檬了。
But three separate people saw him eat it and they all wrote it up in their memoirs. And so you've now got three sources saying, oh he loved a lemon did did old Stonewall.
就像我第一次去前任家，他们问我要不要甜点，我其实不想要，但他们有草莓。我就说：哦我爱死草莓了。于是吃了几个，结果之后每次甜点
That's like when I went to my ex's family for the first time and they offered me dessert and I didn't really want any and they had some strawberries. I'm like, oh I love strawberries. So I had a couple of strawberries and every dessert The
都变成草莓 每件礼物都是草莓图案T恤 没错 被套路进草莓世界了
strawberries came Every present like a t shirt with strawberries on it. Yep. Tricks to strawberry fields.
听说他不吃胡椒是因为觉得会让腿变弱，是真的吗？
Is it true that he didn't eat pepper because he thought it weakened his legs?
嗯，那是关于他的另一个说法。
Well that was another thing that was said
关于他的。
about him.
哦不。
Oh no.
这是个传球。
It's a pass.
你觉得呢？
What do think?
不知道，我是说
Don't know. I mean
他是不是真的不让自己的背碰到椅背，因为那样会把他的内脏弄乱？
Is it true that he wouldn't let his back touch the back of a chair because it jumbled his organs up?
这个人听起来越来越离谱了。你们越说他，我就越觉得——虽然我没有像你们那样深入研究过斯通沃尔·杰克逊，但说实话，我很庆幸我没有。
This man is sounding more and more completely balcony. The more you talk about him, I I've not done I have not done my research like you clearly have on Stonewall Jackson, but frankly, I'm quite glad I have.
但他他相信很多事。而且他已经变得
But he he believed a lot of stuff. And he has become
他绝对是个疑病症患者。
He was a definite hypochondriac.
确实如此。他之所以成为象征，是因为他战术高超，成为了内战那种失败事业的标志，人们会说，哦，我们本来可以赢的，你知道，实际上我们在这件事上是对的。
Definitely. And he's become because he was tactically skilled, he's become an emblem of the kind of lost cause of the civil war and people saying, oh, we you know, we could have won it and you know, we were in the right actually in all this.
他们还说他是睡眠冠军。他睡觉的本事出神入化，甚至能在吃饭时，食物还在嘴里就直接睡着，因为他能如此轻松地进入梦乡。
They said he was champion sleeper as well. He could sleep so brilliantly that he could even, as he was eating a meal, fall asleep with the food in his mouth just straight away because he could just get into it that easy.
这对柠檬来说挺难的，因为它们本身就很酸，
And that's tough with a lemon because they're quite tart as well,
不是吗？
aren't they?
我读到过一个疑病症患者的故事，我不
I read about a hypochondriac with I don't
知道你是否
know if you
听说过这个人，玛丽，叫阿里斯提德斯。
know about this person, Mary, called Aristides.
哦，伊利亚斯·阿里斯提德斯。
Oh, Ilias Aristides.
阿里斯...抱歉，我没那么博学
Arist Sorry, I'm not as learned
像阿里斯提德斯那样。
as Aristides.
不可能都这样。
Can't all be.
我的一位挚友。哦，没错。他写了一本又一本关于自己疑病症症状的书。这可是公元二世纪的事。这是个古代的疑病症患者。
A great friend of mine. Oh, yeah. And he writes book after book after book on his hypochondriac symptoms. This is in the second century AD. This is an ancient hypochondriac.
他是位老朋友了。
He's an old friend.
老朋友啊老朋友。没完没了地写。但许多高贵的罗马人都极度疑病。著名的斯多葛学派皇帝马可·奥勒留，年轻时总在给导师写信描述自己的症状。
An old friend. An old friend. Just goes on and on and on. But loads of posh Romans were terribly hypochondriac. Marcus Aurelius, famous Stoic emperor, when he is a kid, teenager, he's always writing to his tutor about his symptoms.
他会说，我收到这两人之间一封又一封信写着：'希望今早你的胃舒服些了，因为我脖子昨晚以为好转了，可醒来发现肩胛骨像被刺扎般疼。'后来马可·奥勒留雇了位医生，特别热衷于使用某种阴道栓剂——肛门栓剂。
He'll say, I get letter after letter between these two guys saying, 'I do hope your tummy's feeling a bit better this morning because my neck I thought it was getting better in the night, but now I wake up, I appear to have a jabbing pain going through the shoulder blade. Later, Marcus Aurelius, he employs a doctor who is very keen on getting the proper sort of pessaries, anal pessaries.
那是什么？
What are those?
他尤其喜欢...我想是塞进屁股的那种。哦，栓剂。
He particularly likes I think he put up your bum. Oh, suppositories.
哦，好吧。
Oh, okay.
对，就是栓剂。
Yeah, suppositories.
阴道栓剂是另一种
Pessaries is a different
哦哦，我要给它什么？一个完全不同的世界。
Oh oh, what am I giving it? A different whole world.
我想看你穿着
I wanna see you in a
玛丽，我在某些方面已经学会了。栓剂。
I have learned it in some ways, Mary. Suppositories.
哦，是配靴子的，玛丽。
Oh, it's with boots, Mary.
我想他们会知道我做了什么。我不认为我会遇到任何麻烦。总之，有老马可·奥勒留。以为
I think they'd know what I made. I don't think I'd have any trouble getting Anyway, there's old Marcus Aurelius. Thought
他全神贯注于世界的痛苦与不适。我是说，我读过那本叫什么来着？《沉思录》？不过别
he was all about the pain and discomfort of the world. I mean, I've read the what is it? Meditations? Well don't
相信你在冥想中读到的一切。它只展示了他希望被看到的一面。
believe all you read in the don't believe all you read in the meditation. It gives you only one side of how he might like to be seen.
因为我肩膀很不舒服，我归咎于整天盯着手机屏幕，但这对他不可能成立。
Because I have quite a bad shoulder and I put it down to like looking at my phone on my screen all the time but that can't be true for him.
他应该会用平板电脑。很好。谢谢。
He'd have had a tablet. Very good. Thank you.
我能就
Can I just
展开剩余字幕（还有 286 条）
谈谈阿里斯提德斯？
talk about Aristides?
他就是阿里斯提德斯。
He is Aristides.
阿里斯提德斯。他就是阿里斯提德斯。他原本是个演说家，后来得了鼻塞、喉咙痛，没法再演讲了。于是他去找祭司，祭司让他躺下，等待医神阿斯克勒庇俄斯在梦中显灵。然后无论梦中发生什么，他都得照做才能痊愈。
Aristides. He is Aristides. He was basically an orator, and he got nasal congestion, a sore throat, and then couldn't really do his oratory anymore. And so he went to see the priests, and they told him to lie down and allow Asclepius, the god of medicine, to appear in his dreams. And then whatever happened in his dreams, he had to do them to make him feel better.
其中一条指示是让他把泥巴抹在身上，绕着神庙跑三圈。
So one of them was like smear mud on his body and run around the temple three times.
还有那个栓剂疗法。
The suppository trick as well.
栓剂疗法我敢肯定有。对。还有蜂蜜灌肠和吞鹅肝香肠。
The suppository trick I'm sure. Yeah. An enema of honey and to swallow a goose liver sausage.
哦，我是说，
Oh. I mean,
这梦可真糟糕，对吧？是啊。
that's a bad dream, isn't it? Yeah.
有意思。这种荒唐记载能堆满整整几大本书。
That's interesting. There are books and books and books of this rubbish.
好了。现在是第三个趣闻时间，主角是安迪。
Okay. It is time for fact number three and that is Andy.
我要分享的事实是，1845年伦敦曾举办过一场展览，只需一先令，你就能拉动一台巨型机器的杠杆，它会为你生成一行全新的拉丁语诗歌。哇哦。没错。
My fact is, in 1845, there was an exhibition in London where for a shilling, you could pull a lever on a giant machine which would produce a brand new line of poetry for you in Latin. Wow. Yep.
受欢迎吗？
Popular?
非常受欢迎。我觉得实际上确实很火。据说发明者靠这台神奇机器的收益退休了。
So popular. I think it was popular actually. I think the inventor supposedly retired on the proceeds of this amazing machine.
而且我必须补充，创作一行拉丁语诗歌真的非常复杂。
And it is, I have to add, making a line of Latin poetry is really complicated.
哦，确实。
Oh, right.
因为这不像你让ChatGPT写首春天主题的诗那么简单。拉丁诗歌有极其严格的格律格式，必须保持正确的重音和节奏。所以难度极高——我自己连一个拉丁诗单词都写不出来。这台机器太了不起了。
Because it's not just like, you know, what you can get out of chat GBT if you say, write me a poem on the spring, you know, and it comes out. Because Latin poetry is done to a very, very fixed format of meter, so you have to have the right stress and rhythm through the line. So, it's damn difficult. I mean, I can't write a word of Latin verse. So, this machine Wow.
它比我强多了，我能大概理解原理，但自己完全写不出
It's better than I can I can sort of see how it's done, but I can't write a
一个字 惊艳吧？
word stunning?
这才更令人惊叹，因为据说这台机器能生成2600万种不同的诗行组合。是的。
That makes it all the more impressive because apparently there were 26,000,000 permutations Yeah. Of line that you could get Yeah. With this machine.
所以是六音步，拉丁语六步格诗。每行包含六个不同音步。
So it's six it's six feet, Latin hexameter. So six different feet in the line.
什么是音步？
What's a feet?
音步就像是一个独立的单位。比如五步抑扬格就是莎士比亚常用的著名格律，它类似于...
A foot is like an individual unit. So pentameter is a is iambic pentameter is the sort of famous Shakespeare meter which is So it's like
是一种节拍吗？
a beat, is it?
对。但一个音步会包含不同数量的音节。它...
Yeah. But a foot will have different numbers of syllables. It's got
音节数量不同，而且实际上不是通过重音来划分的。我们的诗句是根据音节长度来定的，比如长、短、短这样的组合。明白了。这确实很难。在十九世纪，上流社会的孩子们被逼着写拉丁语六步格诗，既是精英教育的巅峰，也是绝对的噩梦。
different numbers of syllables and it's not actually by stress like It's our verse by the length of the syllable. So it's long, short, short, kind of, Got it. So it's really difficult. I mean, it's what in the nineteenth century they kind of crucified little boys on doing, you know, to write Latin hexameters with the absolute echelons of posh education, but also a complete nightmare.
原来如此。真有意思。
Right. Interesting.
而这台机器，简直太神奇了。
And this machine, bloody amazing.
哇，太惊艳了。它是由一位名叫约翰·克拉克的印刷厂工人发明的，显然他是个发明家。我记得他花了大约十三年时间，具体年份说法不一。
Wow. Stunning. It was created by a print shop worker called John Clark, He was an inventor obviously. And he's I think this took him about thirteen years. Sources vary.
但显然耗费了很长时间。
But it took a long obviously.
那你知道怎么...
And do you know how
成功了？它有六个圆柱体。嗯。每一个当
it worked? Had six cylinders. Mhmm. And each when
你拉动杠杆。哇。就像水果机一样。
you pull the lever Wow. Like a fruit machine.
完全像一台水果机。只不过不是无聊的老东西，你得到了一行优美的拉丁诗句。他还把它安排成形容词名词副词的结构。
Was exactly like a fruit machine. Except instead of some boring old you got a beautiful line of Latin verse. And he had arranged it so that it was adjective noun adverb.
所以它是有意义的。它实际上表达了意思。
So it meant something. It actually meant something.
每一行不是的。对。这不是词语沙拉。它会...它可能有古怪的含义。你可能无法完全理解。就像...对。
Each line is not Yeah. It's not word salad. It does It'll It might be an eccentric meaning. You might not be able to get a huge amount of sense. Like Yeah.
你知道，这不像拉丁诗歌那样。对吧。
You know, it's not Like a of Latin poetry. Right.
他是个非常有趣的人。他出生于1785年，死于1853年。这台机器至今仍存世，这非常令人兴奋。我以为你可能去看过它。
And he was just a really interesting guy. So, he was born in 1785. Died in 1853. The machine still exists today, which is very exciting. I thought you might have been to see it.
我从没去看过，但我读过相关介绍。是的，甚至在我知道你准备演讲之前。
I've never been to see it, I've read about it. Yeah. Even before I saw that you were going to talk.
哦，太好了。它现在在萨默塞特郡，属于一个曾为克拉克鞋博物馆的藏品系列。因为约翰·克拉克...对。克拉克家的...不。他的亲戚是那个制鞋帝国的人。
Oh, great. It's down in Somerset now, and it's in a collection of items that used to be the Clarke's Shoe Museum. Because John Clarke Yes. Of Clarke's No. His relatives were the Shoe Empire people.
太棒了。当他在诗歌领域研究音步时。天啊。他们却在忙着把脚塞进鞋子里。
Brilliant. While he was working in feet in poetry. Oh my god. They were working to put feet in shoes.
没错。太神奇了。
That's Yes. Amazing.
而且是的。他们保存了它一段时间，现在它依然存在。我想最近它刚被翻新过。但据说它在运转时会播放《天佑女王》。这个收藏属于阿尔弗雷德·吉列信托基金。
And yeah. They they held it for a while and and it's still it's still exist. I think it was gonna just up and and renovated a bit recently. But it's it apparently played God Save the Queen while it was working. This collection, you own it, the Alfred Gillette Trust.
他们的收藏包括这台机器、25,000双鞋，以及大量萨默塞特鱼龙化石。哇，这收藏可真丰富。
They they own in their collection this machine, 25,000 shoes and a significant collection of Somerset ichthyosaur fossils. Wow. I mean, what a collection.
你知道它在萨默塞特的具体位置吗？
Whereabouts is it in Somerset, do you know?
是在
It's I
我想我昨天刚去过那儿。
think Literally there yesterday.
一个叫斯特里特的村子，
It's a village called Street,
我想。哦，我知道那里。
I think. Oh. I know that.
对，没错。
Yeah. Right.
离格拉斯顿伯里不远。
It's not far from Glastonbury.
一张照片
A photo of
拿着手机。所以
With phone. So
我的问题是，那时候大家的拉丁语水平到底有多好？是的。而且是不是总有人站在旁边为你翻译诗句？
my question is is how good was everyone's Latin back then? Yeah. And did someone permanently stand translating your line of poetry for you?
我想我们以为那时候的人拉丁语都特别好。好吧。但实际上，自从罗马人离开后，英国历史上从未有过一个时期是超过少数精英阶层懂拉丁语的。他们对古典文化了解很多，但拉丁语尤其是希腊语，即便是拉丁语教育也主要面向男孩，而且是富家子弟。所以，我是说，有些聪明的自学成才者会自学拉丁语，但这台机器是为谁设计的呢？
I think we imagined that they were all terribly Latinate back then. Okay. But actually, there'd been no period of British history after the Romans left when more than a relatively small section of the elite had known Latin. They've known a lot about classical culture, but a Latin more particularly Greek, but even a Latin education was still largely for boys and largely for the rich ones. So, I mean, there were some clever autodidacts who taught themselves Latin, but who this machine was for?
为什么一个不懂创作拉丁语诗歌有多难的人会对此稍感兴趣？有人认为这实际上是一种恶搞，一种相当昂贵、耗时极长的恶搞。
Why would anybody who didn't know how difficult it was to compose Latin poetry be remotely impressed? Some people have thought that it was actually a kind of piss take, a rather expensive, very long term piss take.
我生命中的十三年。
Thirteen years of my life.
我生命中的十三年，真是个笑话，对吧？
Thirteen years of my life, what a joke, right?
将会很棒！
Is going to be great!
我不认为这是正确的，但有人这么主张。19世纪40年代，私立学校的小男孩们花了一个又一个小时学习如何创作拉丁语诗歌。而这位老兄，克拉克先生说的是，看，我能让机器来做这件事。是的。
I don't think this is correct, but some people have argued that. The 1840s, this is when these little boys at private schools were spending hour after hour after hour learning how to compose this Latin poetry. And what this bloke is saying, what Mr. Clark is saying, is look, I can get a machine to do it. Yeah.
看。实际上是在削弱其中的某些东西。
See. Actually undercutting some of that.
但这种情况至今依然存在，比如我所在的学校，一千名学生只有一名拉丁语老师。对吧？
But then that's still true, like now, like my school, we had one Latin teacher for the entire school of a thousand kids. Right?
这已经比很多学校强多了。
And Well, that's a lot more than many have.
没错。2021年有报告指出，英国公务员系统内常有人用拉丁语讲笑话来排挤底层同事。所以这依然是种精英主义行为，不是吗？
Yeah. Exactly. Right? And it's like there was a report in 2021 that said that staff in the British Civil Service are routinely telling jokes in Latin to exclude lower class colleagues. Now that So it is quite an elitist thing still, isn't it?
学习拉丁语或希腊语是个问题吗？我们该全民普及教学，还是干脆取消这类课程？
Learning Latin or Greek, and is that a problem? And should we be teaching everyone it, or shouldn't we be teaching anyone it?
我认为应该给所有人学习机会。拉丁语一直处于危机中——二十世纪初就有人说它要消亡了。可你看，就算真是如此，这个过程也拖得够久的。
I think that you should be giving everyone the opportunity to learn it. And Latin's always in crisis. I mean, in the early twentieth century, they were saying Latin was about to die. Right? Well, you know, it's taken a very long time to do so, if that was the case.
最近我和一所普通公立综合学校的老师聊过，她重新开设了拉丁语课。她说好处有两点：首先不用口语交流，不必像学其他语言那样整天练习'怎么用拉丁语点披萨'这类场景。
But I was talking quite recently to a teacher at an ordinary state comprehensive school where she had reintroduced some Latin for the kids. And she said what was great about it was two things: first of all, you didn't have to speak it. Right? So you could It wasn't that it helped you necessarily with other languages or whatever, though it might. It was that you didn't have to spend all your time learning, you know, how to ask for a pizza in it or whatever.
其次，不像学法语德语时会突然发现：某个特权同学要在期中假期去父母的法国城堡住一周突击提高。
So, you were just looking at the language. You also said, it's not like when you start introducing French or German, you suddenly discover that, you know, misprivileged here is going off for a week, weekend at half term to get her French better at mom and dad's French chateau.
可没人会突然跑去梵蒂冈啊
No one's going off to the Vatican
那位老师说这真正实现了公平——任何人都可能学得好，不存在先天优势。
of And the she said it was really leveling. That's really a good point. Anybody could be good at it, and nobody had that kind of built in advantage.
知道吗？我们学校人人水平相当——每节课有小测验，十道题后要喊出分数。大家都故意答对六题，因为拉丁语的'六'是'sex'。全班轮着喊'sex'的场景简直了。
You know what? Everyone in my school was equally good at it because there will be like a quiz at the end of each lesson and there'd be ten ten questions and then you'd have to shout out your score and everyone got six out of 10 because the Latin word for six is sex. And so literally, we all deliberately got six out of 10, he just went round the class and everyone went, sex, sex.
性。不过拉丁语的妙处在于，每个人都记得自己的拉丁语课和拉丁语老师。而人们往往记不住地理老师。拉丁语，它真的真的能深入人心。你会记得自己是怎么捉弄老师之类的。
Sex. You know, what's great about Latin though is that everybody remembers their Latin lessons and their Latin teacher. And people tend not to remember their geography teacher. Latin, it has, you know, it really really kind of gets to you. And you remember how you took the piss out of the teacher or whatever.
是啊。但你永远不会忘记它。
Yeah. But you never forget it.
我一直学到18岁。
I learned it until I was 18.
是吗？嗯。那现在怎么样？
Did you? Yeah. And so how is it?
我的拉丁语？
My Latin?
你还在用多邻国学拉丁语对吧？没错。
You're still doing that on Duolingo, aren't you? That's right.
那只是为了调侃我的公务员同事罢了。确实是这样。
That's only because so I can tease my civil service colleagues though. It was yeah.
我们午饭时间站着学。
We had stood at lunch times.
比如，与其玩耍
Like, instead of playing you
你可以选择踢足球或者学拉丁语。
could either play football or do Latin.
那么是你自己选择了拉丁语还是
And you chose did you choose Latin or
这是被安排给我的。
It was chosen for me.
明白了。明白了。
I see. I see.
你后悔这个选择吗？
And do you regret it?
不后悔。我非常喜欢。真的非常喜欢。是的。那段时光
No. I loved it. I really loved it. Yeah. It was
超级有趣。
mega fun.
我们从未学过。但当时我在香港，所以我觉得这可能不是个选项。
We never did it. But I was in Hong Kong, so I don't think it was an option.
它以奇特的方式实用。我确实认为它对其他语言学习有帮助——你能真正理解事物是如何组合的。但让我难以理解的是，曾经有个时期它如此普遍，比如法律文书全用拉丁语书写。以至于普通百姓在法庭上根本听不懂审判内容，因为所有司法程序都用拉丁语进行。直到1362年才改变。
It's useful in weird ways. I do think it's useful for other languages as in it's genuinely you sort of see how things fit together. But the thing I can't get is this time where it was so common like law was all in Latin. So people in ordinary ordinary people in courtrooms couldn't really understand what was going on because courtroom business was all conducted in Latin Yeah. Until 1362.
很多教堂仪式都用拉丁语。
Lots of church services Church.
看整个天主教会，直到近代都还在使用拉丁语。
Look at the whole Catholic church existed on Latin until relatively recently.
是的。文法学校最初是为了向神职人员教授拉丁语而设立的，因为掌握良好的拉丁语很重要。小学阶段，
Yeah. Grammar schools were founded to teach Latin to members of the clergy because it was important to have good Latin. Primary school,
我们还得唱拉丁语赞美诗。
we would have to sing Latin hymns.
就像你一样。
Like you.
真的吗？是啊。哇哦。我记得那个抢到教皇即将退位独家新闻的记者，因为
Really? Yeah. Wow. I remember the journalist who got the scoop that the pope was stepping down because
他是用拉丁语宣布的，而且
he delivered it in Latin and
她是当时在场唯一听懂的人。
she was the only one there. Who understand.
能
Who could
听懂的人。对。没错。确实。而且拉丁语写成的作品中有太多精华了。
understand it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There's also there's such good stuff written in it.
你实际上是在直接接触两千年前某人写下的文字，至今仍令人惊叹不已。
You're actually there with what someone wrote two thousand years ago, and it's still bloody amazing.
我想它能带你穿越时空，对吧？
It transports you, I guess, right?
确实如此。这是关于时间旅行的。我指的是像维吉尔的《埃涅阿斯纪》这样的作品，公元前一世纪关于罗马建城的史诗。我要说的是，这或许有点夸张，至少我无法证实，但我相当确信这是事实——自公元前19年维吉尔去世以来，世界上没有一天无人阅读《埃涅阿斯纪》。两千年来，它被不间断地阅读、背诵和研究。
It is. It's about time travel. I mean, someone like Virgil's Aeneid, right, his first century BC poem on the foundation of Rome. What I'm going to say is it's a bit of an exaggeration, or at least I couldn't prove it, but I'm pretty certain it's true, that there hasn't been a day since nineteen BC when Virgil popped his clogs when someone in the world hasn't been reading the Aeneid. It's been read and recited and studied without a gap for two thousand years.
所以我觉得这太棒了。
So I think just great.
嗯。好的。被说服了。
Mhmm. Okay. Sold.
只要你不把它搞成只适合上流社会男孩的东西就行。
As long as you don't as long as you don't make it just posh boys only.
是啊。你
Yeah. You
从没学过拉丁语。
never did Latin.
有个叫威廉·巴恩斯的人不同意你的观点，他是位自学希腊语和拉丁语的语言学家，因为他不想让英语中有任何希腊或拉丁词汇。于是他开始创造新词来替代拉丁语。比如，不说grammar（语法）而说speech craft（言语技艺），不说ornithology（鸟类学）而说bird law（鸟类法则）。
One person who didn't agree with you was a guy called William Barnes, who was a linguist who taught himself Greek and Latin because he didn't want any Greek or Latin words in the English language. And so Yeah. He started coining new words to do away with the Latin. So like for instance, instead of the word grammar, he called it speech craft. Instead of ornithology, he called it bird law.
我还挺喜欢‘鸟类法则’这个说法。
I quite like bird law.
鸟类法则
Bird law's
我也喜欢。这些词都挺不错。他还想用Benson代替flexible（灵活的）。他基本上主张人们应该把英语当作盎格鲁-撒克逊语言来使用，而非希腊/拉丁混合语。
my too. I like that. These are all quite good. Instead of flexible, he wanted people to say Benson. And he was like basically saying that people should speak English as an Anglo Saxon language, not as a Greek slash
对。
Right.
老实说，我觉得连他自己都认为这只是个玩笑。他是什么时候活跃的？他是十九世纪的人物。
Which I think even he thought it was just a bit of fun, to be honest. When was he when was he around? He was around the nineteenth century.
差不多和你的拉丁语机器同一时期。
About the same time as your Latin machine.
是啊。哦，对。对。但《牛津英语词典》里只保留了一个词条，定义写着‘鲍姆的术语’，那个词就是‘push wailing’。拼写是w-a-i-l-i-n-g，push wailing。
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But there's only one thing that's still in the OED, which the definition says w Baum's term for, and that word is push wailing. So w a I l I n g, push wailing.
Push wailing。知道是什么意思吗？
Push wailing. Know what that is?
Push wailing。用力
Push wailing. Force
哭泣。就是假装情绪。
crying. So faking emotion.
假装情绪。听起来
Faking emotion. That sounds
像分娩，生孩子。猜得不错。你在用力同时哀嚎？
like labor, giving birth. Good guess. You're pushing and you're wailing?
不对。好吧，你接近了。但《牛津英语词典》里的定义是‘巴恩对婴儿车的称呼’。
No. It Okay. You're pretty much close, but it was the definition in the OED is w Barnes term for a pram.
哦，Pramplays。
Oh. Pramplays.
这个词至今仍收录在《牛津英语词典》里。
And that's still in the OED today.
太神奇了。
That's amazing. As
为今天做准备，我听了点《Cuomo do Dicita》，这是个拉丁语播客。由几个书呆子主持，他们对此颇有研究，讲得也慢，慢到你能勉强跟上节奏，挺有意思的。
preparation for today, I'd listened to a bit of Cuomo do Dicita, which is the Latin podcast. And it's a few it's really fun. Like it's a few very nerdy people who've got well versed in it and made a study of it. And it's they do it at a kind of slow slow enough speed that you can just about sort of cling onto it. And it's it's fun.
这很有趣，因为你平时根本听不到有人用拉丁语交谈。
It's really interesting because you never hear it spoken normally.
谢天谢地。芬兰以前有群怪人每周用拉丁语播新闻，我就想这图啥呢？
Well, thank God. I mean, I think there used to be a set of you know, slightly eccentric people in Finland who did the news in Latin, you know, each week I think it was. And you think, what's the point? You know, what is Oh,
就图个乐子呗。
it was the fun.
喜剧独裁者是
Comedy dictator is
好玩。但我想读罗马人的原著，才不要听芬兰神棍用拉丁语念新闻。
fun. It's fun. But Oh, I want to read things that the Romans wrote. Don't want to sit listening to the news read by some witchy Finns in Latin.
安迪，你说的那个播客是用拉丁语讲现代生活吗？
Is your podcast about the modern day but in Latin, Andy, the one you're talking about?
是啊。他们一开始会问‘你最近’
Yeah. They start with how what have you been
在忙什么？
up to?
这很难，因为拉丁语里没有对应‘电话’这样的词
Difficult like because there isn't a Latin word for, you know, telephone for
我觉得他们有，只是没定义很多变通方案。对。他们还没开始像罗马人那样生活来让它更有效。嗯。是的。
I think they do they haven't defined a lot of workarounds. Yeah. They haven't started living like Romans to make it more effective. Yeah. Yeah.
是啊。投入产出比在我看来似乎不太
Yeah. Effort reward ratio does not seem to me to
你的拉丁语水平够好吗？如果去梵蒂冈，你能用他们的ATM机吗？哦。或者他们给你提供拉丁语
Is your is your Latin good enough that if you went to Vatican City, you could use their ATM machines? Oh. Or they give you a Latin
你
You
大概率能用ATM机。你不需要会讲那种语言。
can use ATM machines in most likely. You don't need to be able to speak a language.
对。我会乱按直到数字出现，然后选择Premiere选项。
Yeah. I'll jab until numbers come up and then and then I'll select Premiere.
媒体。嗯。Premiere。你只需要看所有数字，虽然不懂货币单位，选第二小的金额就行。是的。
Media. Yeah. Premiere. What you do is you look at all the numbers and you don't understand the currency and you choose the second smallest number. Yeah.
你选那个，因为那大概只要10英镑。
You go for that because that's probably about £10.
因为这大概可行。对，对。而你
Because that's probably doable. Yeah. Yeah. And you
拉下那个大把手。没错。
pull the big handle. Yeah.
然后
And then
就会冒出一行诗。太棒了。
a line of poetry comes out. That's great.
好的。现在到了节目最后一个趣闻时间，有请詹姆斯。
Okay. It is time for our final fact of the show and that is James.
好的。我这周的趣闻是：七世纪法国国王达戈贝尔特一世的传记作者没有列出他的情人名单，因为他们说这会让书变得太长读不完。同感。
Okay. My fact this week is that the biographer of seventh century French king, Dagobert the first didn't include a list of his lovers because they said it would make the book too long to read. Same.
我等着。刚才一直盯着安迪等他说。
I waiting. Was staring at Andy waiting.
没有足够大的墓碑能刻下。哦天啊。
There's not a gravestone big enough. Oh dear.
干脆用床柱当墓碑吧，上面刻满凹痕。
Just a bed post your tombstone full of notches.
天啊。
Oh my god.
抱歉，不。那太搞笑了。那位传记作者是想通过称赞匕首熊有多棒来赞美它吗？
Sorry. No. That's that's very funny. Is that the biographer trying to praise Dagger Bear by saying how marvelous
他吗？不，真的。
he was? No. Really.
我不这么认为。我不觉得这是件积极的事。我是在BBC历史杂志上读到这个的。
I don't think so. I don't think it was very positive thing. So I read this in BBC history magazine.
好吧，那肯定是真的了。
It was Well, it must be true then.
而且我后来核实过了。
And I have subsequently checked it.
我爱你，玛丽。我们会收到地理老师的来信。等着收信吧。
I love you, Mary. We're get letters from geography teachers. Gonna get letters.
BBC历史。
BBC history.
如果你想就这期节目寄信来，如果不是用拉丁文写的，我们不会看的。
If you are gonna send a letter in about this episode, if it's not in Latin, we're not gonna read it.
没错。
That's right.
这是他们问答环节的一部分，回答关于历史的提问。问题是：达戈贝尔特一世对墨洛温王朝的衰落负有多大责任？我想这是我们经常自问的问题，对吧？原来这些墨洛温人是在罗马人之后兴起的群体。对吧，玛丽？所以你可能不太喜欢他们，因为
And so it's part of their q and a section where they answer questions that someone might ask about history. And the question was, how responsible was king Dagobed the first for the decline of the Merovingians? Which I think is a question we're always asking And ourselves, aren't turns out these Merovingians, they were a group that came after the Romans. Right, Mary? So maybe you don't like them so much because
我对他们一无所知。听说你要带我们了解墨洛温王朝时我很高兴，你知道，我一直渴望多了解他们一些。
I know nothing about them. I was I was delighted that you were gonna take us into the Merovingians because, you know, I've always been busting to know a bit more about them.
他们在公元五世纪左右非常强大，统治着现在的法国、德国、比利时地区。达戈贝尔特即位后，他有点像个害群之马，丑闻缠身。他把宫廷迁到巴黎，因为那里纸醉金迷，充满享乐。
Well, were very big around the fifth century AD. They ruled in what's now France, Germany, Belgium. And Dagobert came along, and he was a bit of a black sheep. And he was dogged by scandal. He moved the court to Paris because he was a bit of a playboy and there's lots of fun happening in Paris.
他生活极度奢侈，拼命敛财，还曾为巩固王权娶了继妹——这在当时很常见。但父亲一死就立刻离婚，因为婚事本是父亲安排的。掌权后他休妻纵欲，无数风流韵事最终让墨洛温王朝走向衰亡。
He lived in loads of luxury, tried to get as much gold as possible, and he previously married his stepsister to cement the monarchy as was quite common in those days. But he divorced her as soon as his father died because his father was the one who was kind of organizing it all. He got in charge, divorced his wife, and then just went through loads and loads of affairs. And basically, all this debauchery was the beginning of the end for the Merovingians.
所以这是个道德寓言啊。
So it's a moral tale, really.
确实如此。看起来
It really is. Yeah. It seems like
对吧？传记作者把他个人的贪欲与对教会土地的觊觎联系起来。你知道，欲望总是始于美色，最终就会渴求教会领地了。
that, doesn't it? And it's the biographer links his sort of personal lust with his lust for ecclesiastical lands. You know, it always start it starts with us and eventually, you're on the ecclesiastical lands, that's what you lust after eventually.
没错。这些记载都来自《弗雷德加尔编年史》，那是七世纪法兰克人撰写的墨洛温王朝史。反正我们都知道的。
Yeah. And this all comes, I should say, from the Chronicle of Fredegar, which was the seventh century Frankish chronicle written about the Merovingian kings. As we all know that anyway. Yeah.
我之前从没听说过墨洛温王朝。
I have never come across the Merovingians before. No. It's kind
这个词就像《黑客帝国》里那个角色名。
of a word you hear like the guy in the matrix.
是的。但他们是法兰克王国的统治家族，对吧？
Yeah. But they were the ruling family weren't they of the Frankish kingdom?
而且他们是像查理曼大帝之前的那些人，对。
And they were the ones who came before like Charlemagne and Yeah.
我们听说过他们。罗马人还行。加洛林王朝也还行。但墨洛温王朝就...
We heard of them. Romans are fine. The Carolingians are fine. But it's the Merovingians
墨洛温王朝，当你查阅资料时，会发现很多页面都提到一个特点，这让他们与罗马人和加洛林人不同——在他们社会里，长发被视为权力的象征。统治者都留着长发，而且有个...
The Merovingians, when you look them up, there's one thing that comes up on a lot of pages, and it separates them from the Romans and the Carolingians, which is long hair was seen as power in their society. Rulers had long hair and there's a
我倒无所谓
I'd be alright
对。有位叫詹姆斯·帕尔默的教授说过，基本上，如果他们觉得某个王位继承人不够格，就会剃光他的头发，把他送进修道院当修士。但会让他待命，因为他并非天生秃顶，头发还能长回来。如果后来掌权的人表现糟糕，他们就能废黜那人，把...
then. Yeah. There's a professor called James Palmer who said that basically, if there was someone who was an heir to the throne that they thought is not gonna be quite good enough, they would shave their head, pop them into a monastery like a monk Yeah. But have them on standby because they haven't gone bald, they can grow back right. And if the person then who's been put in power was seen as bad, they can knock that person out and bring back
我能不能问，如果你是墨洛温王朝的下任继承人？然后你开始秃头，是不是就完蛋了？
Can I say, if you're like the next in line for the Merovingians Yeah? And you start going bald, Is that you done?
嗯，是的。
Well, yeah.
就是这样
That is
那时候可没有植发技术。
There's no hair transplants in those days.
不，确切地说。不过要几周时间。
No. Exactly. It's weeks though.
啊，好吧。是的。
Ah. Okay. Yeah.
这就对了。
There we go.
但它曾是
But it was
国家权力的工具。其中一位王后名叫克洛蒂尔德，她是六世纪的王后，克洛维国王的遗孀。顺便说一句，克洛维（Clovis）这个名字就是路易（Louis）的来源。去掉Clovis的'c'和's'，就得到Lovis。这就是为什么那么多法国国王都叫路易。
a tool of state power. The one of the queens was called Clotilde and she was sixth century queen, widow of King Clovis. And Clovis by the way is where we get Louis from. Clovis, knock off the sea, you got Lovis. That's why so many French kings are called Louis.
好吧。原来都是
Okay. It's all
从克洛维这个名字来的。是的。总之，她的孙子们本应加冕。你知道，他们被指定为继承人，接下来就该轮到他们了。但家族中的一些阴谋者绑架了他们，并派了一个打手去告诉克洛蒂尔德王后：'我们这里有一把剪刀和一把剑。'
from it was all from Clovis. Yeah. Anyway, her grandsons were meant to be crowned. They were you know slated, next up, all of this. And then some plotters in the family abducted them and dispatched a henchman to to Queen Clotilde saying, we've got a pair of scissors here and a sword here.
你想为你的孙子们选择哪个？意思是，要么我们可以像处决皇室成员一样处决他们，要么我们可以剪掉他们的头发，这意味着他们将失去皇室身份，生活将毫无价值。而她说：'请用剑。请用剑处决我的孙子们。'
Which do you want for your grandsons? And the idea was either we can execute them as royals or we can cut their hair which means their life won't be worth living. They'll be living as non royals. And she said, sword please. Sword please for my grandsons.
哇。我宁愿选择剑也不愿选择剪发，因为剪发意味着失去皇室身份。
Wow. I'd rather that than a haircut which means a non royal
这很残酷。而加洛林家族上台后，必须与长发传统划清界限，所以他们选择了留胡须。是的，那是很重要的事。没错。
That's hard. And the Carolingians when they came in had to separate themselves from the whole long hair thing, so they went for the mustache. Yeah. That was big thing. Yeah.
查理曼大帝，想象一下他那长长的胡须。
Charlemagne, picture his long mustache.
真不错。是啊。
Lovely. Yeah.
老实说，我无法描述查理曼大帝长什么样子。
I I couldn't tell you what Charlemagne looked like, I must say.
奇怪的是，我其实不确定是否见过他的画像。只是脑海中突然浮现这个画面，非常生动。
What's weird is, I'm not actually sure I've seen a picture of him. I just conjured that in my head. Very evocative.
我发现关于达戈贝尔特的一个前所未闻的细节：他是首位坐在折叠椅上加冕的法国国王，就像钓鱼椅那种。我查阅资料时发现这种X形腿、类似布带结构的折叠椅在古代极为珍贵——
Here's one thing I found about Dagobert, which I'd never heard before. He was the first French king to be crowned on a folding chair, like a fishing chair. And I was reading about these folding chairs and apparently, like, it was one of the best things you could have for quite a lot, like, in What ancient I mean is like an x shaped legs and then almost like a cloth belt, but it was actually made of
有点像导演椅那种。
Sort of like a director's chair.
对，但没有靠背。
Yeah. But without a back.
确实没有靠背。这种椅子在古埃及风靡一时，大英博物馆就收藏了一把。图坦卡蒙下葬时陪葬了两把这样的椅子。
But without a back. Yeah. They were made of one, and they were huge in ancient Egypt. There's one in the British Museum. Tutankhamun was buried with two of them.
如今却主要是看高尔夫球的人在用。
Wasn't And now it's mostly people watching golf. The
我们这个时代的国王们啊。
kings of our age.
奥古斯都皇帝曾带着一个人去参加一家相当豪华的剧院开幕式，结果那人从他非常糟糕的一侧摔了下来。
The emperor Augustus took one to the opening of a rather posh theater and he fell off his very bad bad side.
当时没人敢笑出声。
No one laughed at that.
是啊，这确实有点冒险。哇哦，摔下来了
Well, only it was a bit of a risk to Wow. Fell off
这个时期有位相当著名的统治者，达戈贝尔特二世。
There is a quite famous ruler of this period, Dagobert the second.
噢，别提这个。别让我开始这个话题。
Oh, yeah. Don't get me started like that.
哦天哪，又来了。丹又开始高谈阔论他的最爱话题了。
Oh, boy. Here we here we go again. Dan's on his hobby horse.
你永远不知道历史会如何重新诠释你和你的故事——达戈贝尔特二世正是如此，他神秘失踪，无人知晓他是否被谋杀，故事的结局成谜。时光跳转多年后，出现了一个名为'锡安会'的骗局组织，声称他们守护着墨洛温王朝的血脉，后来这个设定被《达芬奇密码》的作者采用，书中将之与基督血脉联系起来。
Well, you never know how history is gonna replace you and your story into new light and that's what happened with Dagoboat the second because he disappeared and no one quite knows was he murdered, what was the end of his story. Cut to many many years later, this hoax is set up, this thing called the Priory Of Scion, where the idea is that they are looking after the bloodline of the Merovingians, and then that gets picked up by the writers of a book which is all about the bloodline of Christ and into that.
所以墨洛温王朝是基督的后裔？
So the Merovingians are the descendants of Christ.
正是。《达芬奇密码》主要就是...
Exactly. The Da Vinci Code is largely
玛丽，你想收回之前那个渊博的评论吗？
You wanna retract your very learned comment from earlier, Mary?
这不是我的理论。而且我确保这个事实在节目最后出现，这样即使玛丽离场，我们也有足够的素材。
It's not my theory. And I made sure this fact was last at the show so if Mary walked out we'd have enough in
储备。你想知道墨洛温王朝立场的真相吗？
the tank. Do you wanna know the truth about the Merovingian stand?
这是
This is
真相。这个说法当时并非由国王们自己提出，而是我认为是他们身边的人宣称的。说他们是海怪的后裔。不是神，而是一种特定的——玛丽，你听说过这个词吗？你听说过equinator吗？
the truth. This was a claim made at the time not by the kings themselves, but I think by people around them. That they were descended from a sea monster. Not from a god, but a specific there was have you heard of a Think of caps here, Mary. Have you heard of equinator?
像是
Like a
牛头怪，但
minotaur, but
不完全是。
not. Exactly.
但是带有
But with
墨洛温这个词的来源，意思是海公牛。
where we get Merovingian, it means sea bull.
对。所以——哦当然，我忘了。我忘了。
Right. So Oh, of course. I forgot. I forgot.
所以那个所谓的投币器就是
So the coinator supposedly is the one
你知道的，就是孩子们玩的那种套圈游戏。
of those, you know those ring toss things that kids have.
完全就是那样。它
Exactly like that. Does it
看起来像那样吗？
look like that?
完全就是那样。没错。不同颜色对应不同奖品。
Exactly like that. Yeah. They're different colors for different prizes.
哦，哇。是啊。他正想好好演讲时突然被套圈砸中肯定超尴尬——伙计们，别闹了。五分钟。多么重要的演讲啊。
Oh, wow. Yeah. Must've been so embarrassing when he was trying to give a good talk and just a hoop would land on his Guys, come on. Five minutes. What a big speech there.
这个事实是关于传记作者之类的。我读到在古代当传记作者相当危险。因为你基本上得...你必须把传主写得很好，但又不能过分吹捧显得谄媚。但另一方面，如果说任何坏话，你基本上会被处死。对吧。
So this fact was about biographers and stuff. And I wanna know what I read is that it was quite dangerous to be a biographer in ancient times. Because you basically had to You had to say really nice things about the person you're biographizing, but you couldn't go over the top because it would seem like you have been too obsequious. But then on the other hand, if you said anything bad, you could basically be put to death. Right.
其实有个简单解决办法——等传主死了再写传记。
There there was an obvious answer to this. You wait till they're dead before you biography.
好吧。这主意不错。不过出版商会跟你争论的。
Okay. That's good. Your publishers are gonna be arguing.
尼禄...尼禄正迫不及待想看到样章呢。
Nero's Nero's really looking forward to seeing a proof.
是啊。我是说，
Yeah. Mean,
预付款的一半。对。不是这样的。
half the advance. Yeah. It's not.
抱歉。最后一章花的时间比我预想的要长，但我以为他会...我正在努力完成。
I'm sorry. The last chapter's taking me a bit longer than I think, but I thought he was going to. I'm working on it.
有意思。
Interesting.
你知道，有件事永远别做，就是在皇帝活着时议论他。
You just, you know, one thing you never want to do is to talk about the emperor while he's alive.
没错。关于传记作者的另一个问题是，有多少内容是真实的，对吧？
Yeah. The other thing about the biographers is how much of it was true, right?
要我说，可能很少。特别是涉及达科比亚嫔妃们的部分，我猜。但很久以前我当学生时，老师总教导我们：现在你们要通读所有传记，拿出蓝铅笔划掉所有绝不可能真实的部分。这么做了之后，会遇到一些段落让你思考：这可能是真的吗？嗯，也许有可能，你就打个问号。
You see, probably very little. Particularly if you're dealing with the concubines of Dacobea, I suspect. But when I was a student, a long time ago, we were always taught, Now, you've got to go through all these biographies and you've got to get your blue pencil out and you've got to put a line through all the bits that can't possibly be true. So you do that and then you come to some bits and you think, Could it be true? Well, maybe it could, you put a question mark.
我人生中好几年都在干这个。直到最近几年才明白重点不在这里。重点在于人们相信这些故事。懂吗？这某种程度上反映了我们看待君主和名流的方式。
And I spent years of my life doing that really. It's only in the last few years I've realised it's not the point. The point is that people believe this stuff. You know? It's taking you a bit into the kind of way we think about monarchs and celebs, etc.
我们编造这些关于他们奢靡生活的故事，虽然不真实，但确实反映了我们的想象。你看，就连纯良的查尔斯国王也不例外，听说过吗？他居然有人专门给牙刷挤牙膏。
We tell these stories about their excesses, which are not true, but they certainly tell us about how we envisage. You know, it goes right down to the kind of innocent King Charles, doesn't it? Do you know he has someone who puts toothpaste on his toothbrush for him?
是啊。关于查尔斯国王的传闻是，他每天早晨要准备12种不同熟度的鸡蛋，然后挑选想吃哪个。
Yeah. The story about King Charles is that he had like 12 different eggs made every morning of different hardness and he would choose which one to eat
诸如此类的事情。你知道这可以追溯到古代世界吗？不知道吧。因为有个关于安东尼与克里奥帕特拉厨房的故事，一位近乎目击者的人参观厨房时，看到有八头野猪在烤着。对吧？
and stuff. And do you know that goes right back to the ancient world? No. Because there's a story about the kitchens of Antony in Cleopatra, and a kind of next to eyewitness visits the kitchens, and there's eight boars roasting. Right?
那人问厨师：天哪，你们今晚一定是在等一大群人吃饭吧？厨师却说：不，只是我们不太确定他们什么时候会坐下来用餐，所以我们就分批烤了这些猪。
The guy says to the cook, God, you must be expecting a large party to dinner tonight. And the cook says, no, it's just we don't quite know when they're going to sit down to eat, we put them all on at different times.
有意思，确实。
Interesting, yeah.
这样他们想吃的时侯就有一头刚好烤好。这就像鞑靼煮蛋的做法一样。
So that one will be ready when they want it. And that's just like the boiled egg tartare.
太有趣了。我
That's so funny. I
家里有12台微波炉，每台里都放着一盒冷冻千层面。
have 12 microwaves in my house and I put one frozen lasagna in each one.
但我从小听说的故事是，女王的柯基犬——已故女王的柯基犬是用银盘子吃饭的。有次我去温莎城堡拍片，剧组需要经过生活区附近。当我们路过宠物区门口时，大家都面面相觑——因为门边摆着一排非常廉价的塑料碗。哇哦。而我们
But I was brought up with the idea that the Queen's Corgis, the late Queen's Corgis ate out of silver dishes. And I once went to do some filming in Windsor Castle with a film crew, and we had to go quite near the sort of more domestic apartments. And as we passed the door to the pets area, we all looked at each other because lined up by the door were a load of very nasty plastic bowls. Wow. And we
所有人 那些是工作人员的。每个人
all They were the staff. Everybody
都说，所以这不是真的 你知道我
said, so it's not true You know what I
这太神奇了。但关键是你说的这个现象——我们对王室的这种想象，反而更反映了当今的生活本质
That's amazing. But the point what you're saying is the fact that we think that about the royal family tells us a lot more about life today
是的。
Yes.
而非其真实性
Than whether it's true
与否。
or not.
某种程度上也是我们愿意相信的。没错。
And sort of what we want to believe as well. Yes.
关于我们如何想象权力，如何想象财富。如果我们拥有无限财富会做什么？我的狗会用银碗吃饭。不过我为第一代达戈贝尔特感到些许遗憾。
About how we imagine power, how we imagine wealth. What would we do if we had unlimited wealth? Well, my dog would eat out of silver bowls. I feel a bit sorry for Dagobert the first, though.
哦，是吗？是啊。
Oh, yeah? Yeah.
要知道，作为君主，人们总是诟病他们纵欲过度，不是吗？史书总说嫔妃多到名字都记不全。君主的定义之一就是比常人拥有更多性伴侣。这固然与权力有关，但最终会成为攻击他们的把柄——被斥为荒淫无度的混蛋。在罗马，连皇后纵欲也会遭非议。
You know, because if you're a monarch, the one thing they always get you for is too much sex, isn't It's always, we couldn't possibly fit the names of all the concubines in. One of the definitions of a monarch is that they have more sex than everybody else. And that's partly about power, but then it gets used against them as they're absolutely lurid bastards And who you can't in Rome, of course, wives are having too much sex as well.
这是诽谤还是
Is that the slander or
毁誉参半？克劳狄乌斯皇帝的妻子梅萨利娜就背负着这样的名声。有个关于她的传说显然不可能是真的——据说她曾向罗马妓女发起挑战，比赛一夜能睡多少男人。当然，她赢了。
wrecking name? That is always a reputation, that the Emperor Claudius' wife. Messalina, one story about her cannot possibly be true, it's a real revelation, is that she's supposed to have challenged the prostitutes of Rome to a competition of who could sleep with most men in one night. And she won, of course.
虽然中途她就累垮了，但
She fell off halfway through, but
法官们
the judges
法官们判定她胜诉。而你以为靠你的性生活赢不了
The judges decided that she had won. And you think you can't win with your sex life
是啊。
Yeah.
如果你是
If you're
一位统治者。实际上他们和我们其他人一样每年只做一次。
a ruler. When the truth is they were all having it once a year like the rest of us.
没错。以非常乏味的方式。
That's right. In very boring way.
达戈贝尔的名声已经恢复，因为在法国现在有个说法叫'好国王达戈贝尔'。这基本上是法国孩子们学的最基础的童谣，由父母唱给他们听。
Dagobea's reputation has recovered because now in France, there's a there's a phrase, the good king Dagobea. And it's basically the ultra basic nursery rhyme that French children learn and are sung by their parents.
老国王科尔
Old King Cole
是首欢快的古老歌谣。完全就是那样。而且它...它其实是首法国革命歌曲。因为那是种嘲笑国王和君主制的方式，而不用直接嘲笑路易十六。
is a merry old song. It's exactly like that. And it's it's all there's a French revolutionary song. Because that was a way of making fun of kings and monarchy without actually making fun of King Louis the sixteenth.
对。它是
Right. It was
革命爆发前两年，这首歌被创作出来用以讽刺君主制。但如今它幸存下来，成了最经典的摇篮曲之一。
two years before the revolution this song was written as a way of satirizing the monarchy. But now that's that's survived and it's one of the absolute route one lullabies
不过他们没提他的私生活。
they don't tell them about his sex life though.
我觉得那不是后面的歌词，通常都会被跳过。
I don't think that's a later verse. It's normally skipped.
那就是他召唤三个提琴手的时候，整段歌词讲的就是这个。
That's when he calls for his fiddlers three. That's what that's all about.
好了，以上就是我们所有的趣闻。非常感谢大家的收听。如果想就本期播客内容联系我们，都可以在社交媒体账号上找到我们。
Okay. That's it. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we've said over the course of this podcast, we can all be found on social media accounts.
我的Instagram账号是shreibeland。詹姆斯你呢？
So I'm on at shreibeland on Instagram. James.
我在TikTok上，搜James Harkin就行。
I'm on TikTok. Nulls such thing as James Harkin.
我是安迪，Instagram账号是andrew hunter m。
Andy. I'm on Instagram at andrew hunter m.
玛丽，你有账号吗？
Mary, are you on
天啊，要上网吗？
Oh gosh. Online?
搜索Instant Classics播客《Yes. And》就能找到我。
Look up Instant Classics podcast Yes. And you'll find me.
对，不错。虽然它们不能回应你，但可以倾听你的声音。
Yeah. Nice. Yeah. You can't they can't speak back to you, but they can listen to you.
没错。那里列出了所有社交媒体账号，它们可以回应你。
Yeah. There's some socials all listed there so they can speak back to you.
太棒了。好的。如果想给我们写信，请发邮件至podcast@qi.com。安迪会阅读所有来信。
Great. Awesome. Okay. And if you wanna write into us, go to podcast@qi.com. That's an email address where you can send all your stuff and Andy will read it.
可以发传真或任何想对我们说的话，我们可能会选用部分内容制作名为《给我们留言》的番外篇，这个栏目位于我们神秘的会员俱乐部Club Fish。想加入的话，请访问no such thing as afish.com网站，还能看到演出门票和周边商品等信息。下周听完玛丽的新播客后，记得回来收听我们的下一期节目。
Send in your fax, send in anything that you wanna say to us, and we might use some of those as part of our bonus episode which is called drop us a line, but that's in a spare but that's in a very special place called Club Fish, which is our secret members club. If you wanna get access to that, just go to our website, no such thing as afish.com. You'll also see links to live tickets, bits of merch, all that stuff. Otherwise, just come back here next week after you've listened to Mary's new podcast and then check out our next episode. We'll see you then.
再见。
Goodbye.
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