Scaling a Solo Business From $10k to $2.5M/year (w/ Dan Koe)

我觉得大多数人犯的错误就是，哦，好吧。

I think that's the mistake that most people make is like, oh, okay.

按照这个商业课程给我的公式，我应该去联系这个人，尽管他是你能想象到的最无聊的人，我根本不想跟他聊天。

According to this formulation that this business course gave me, I should reach out to this guy even though, like, he's the most boring person imaginable, and I wouldn't wanna have a conversation with him.

首先得决定的是，你合作的人应该是你愿意合作的人。

That decision needs to be made first is that who you work with should be someone that you want to work with.

你们这些性感混蛋，最近怎么样？

What is up, you sexy bastards?

我是你们的老朋友，书虫先生，也就是拉比肯·卢斯，也就是诺亚·卡根。

It is your boy, mister Bookworm, aka rabbi Ken Luce, aka Noah Kagan.

在今天的节目里，我采访了自我提升企业家丹·科。

In today's episode, I talk to self improvement entrepreneur, Dan Koe.

这个人是我在YouTube上偶然发现的，我本来没抱什么期望，你知道我是什么样的人。

Now this is a guy that I came across on YouTube, and I wasn't expecting much, and you know how I was.

他表现得非常棒。

He was great.

丹经营着一个商业社区，每年收入超过一百万美元。

And so Dan runs a business community that makes over a millions of dollars a year.

但就在几年前，他还只是个刚起步的自由职业者，几乎赚不到什么钱。

But just a few years ago, he was just a freelancer starting out that barely made anything.

那他到底是怎么做到的呢？

So how the hell did he do it?

你可以去丹·科的商业社区看看。

You can check out Dan's business community at the Dan Koe.

网址是 dankoe.com。

That's the dankoe.com.

如果你一直想了解如何通过个人品牌变现，尤其是你刚起步，对代理业务和自己创业感兴趣的话，你一定会喜欢这期节目。

Now if you've ever wanted to learn about how do you monetize a personal brand, especially if you're just getting started and you're interested in agency and running a business yourself, you are going to love this episode.

在这次对话中，你会收获三个超棒的内容。

In this conversation, you'll enjoy three gigantic things.

第一，丹是如何从年收入一万美元做到两百五十万美元的？

One, how did Dan scale from 10,000 a year to 2,500,000?

第二，你其实不需要有很多粉丝，我指的是不到一千人就能赚大钱，丹会讲讲他是怎么做到的。

Two, why you don't actually have to have a big following, and I'm talking, like, less than a thousand people to bring in big money, and Dan will talk about what he did.

第三，丹遵循的精确的四小时日程安排。

And three, the exact four hour schedule Dan lives by.

真是个非常好的人。

Really, really good guy.

很兴奋能分享这一集。

Excited to share this episode.

享受这两点，还有沿途更多的干货。

Enjoy those two things, plus a bunch more ear nuggets along the way.

这次采访是即将推出的YouTube视频的一部分，我们会和那些独自经营生意、赚大钱的成功个体创业者交流。

This interview is part of an upcoming YouTube video where we talk to successful solopreneurs making tons of money running a business by themselves.

去订阅我的YouTube频道吧。

Go subscribe to my YouTube channel.

网址是youtube.com/okdork，视频发布时会通知你。

That's youtube.com/okdork to be notified when the video comes out.

另外，如果你想创业，但不知道从何开始，或者还没迈出第一步，需要一些支持和督促，还有帮助的话，我们重新推出了每月一千美元的课程，现在只要10美元。

Also, you wanna launch your own business, you don't know where to start or you haven't taken the first steps, you need some support and accountability and help, we have relaunched our course monthly one k for just $10.

这个课程已经帮助了成千上万的人开启他们的创业之旅，我相信它也能帮到你。

It's helped thousands of people start their business journey, and I know it'll help you too.

去 okdork.com/monthly1k 看看吧。

Head over to okdork.com/monthly1k.

还有，特别感谢听众 Hockmail 在节目开始前的支持。

Also, special pre show shout out to listener Hockmail.

他留了一条评论，说从2017年就开始订阅了。

He left a review saying subscribe since 2017.

好兄弟。

My man.

这可能是今年我发现的最好的播客了。

Probably the best podcast I've ever discovered this year.

我喜欢里面的访谈和建议。

I love the interviews and advice.

哥们，这真是太棒了。

Dude, man, that that was nice.

这真的让我一整天都很开心。

That really made my day.

我也爱你们每一位可爱的听众。

And I ever and I love every other one of you gorgeous listeners.

如果你想在未来的节目里被提到，就在你收听这个播客的地方留下评论。

If you wanna shout out in a future episode, you leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast.

每一条我都会看。

I check every single one of them.

Dan Koe是谁？

Who is Dan Koe?

对于那些不认识你的人，我能想象有人会说，嘿，这家伙在做YouTube视频，现在一年赚250万。

For people that don't know you, like, I I can imagine people out there being like, hon, this guy's doing YouTube videos, now he's making 2,500,000 a year.

他是怎么做到的？

Like, how did he do that?

所以我现在的主要业务基本上就是社交媒体。

So my business at the moment is basically social media.

我的全部目标和我喜欢做的事情，就是测试所有能想到的方案，看看能不能行得通。

I'm trying to my entire goal and what I have fun with is just testing every single offer imaginable and seeing if I can make it work.

我做过咨询、辅导、自由职业，几乎各种数字产品都试过。

So I've done consulting, coaching, freelancing, almost every type of digital product.

现在主要的产品是我的社区，一半是关于自我提升，一半是关于我在商业中学到的东西，以及具体的行动步骤。

Right now, the main ones are my community, which is like half self improvement, half what I've learned in business, the actionable steps there.

我的另一个主要产品是数字经济学，内容差不多。

My other main product is digital economics, which is the same thing.

但里面包含了我一路走来，在自由职业、咨询、辅导这些过程中总结出来的系统方法。

But it's systems that I've kind of created along the way throughout that freelancing, consulting, coaching, whatever journey.

基本上都放在那里了，主要面向创作者、个人品牌，以及那些想在网上分享自己兴趣的人。

Put it all in there, basically targeted towards creators, personal brands, people that want to talk about their interests online.

这就是我的主要方向。

That's my main angle.

他们可以谈论自己的兴趣，并且能够从中赚钱。

Talk about their interests and be able to monetize them.

说到收入，去年是80万美元。

In terms of revenue, last year was $800,000 in revenue.

今年，我希望，我试着预估能达到250万。

And then this year, I'm hoping I'm trying to project 2,500,000.

上个月是我第一次月收入达到40万美元。

This last month was my first $400,000 month in revenue.

我最不擅长记账，给不出具体利润率，但我觉得利润率大概在85%到90%。

I am the worst at tracking, I couldn't give margins, but I would say that they're 85, 90% margins on that.

至于我的团队，我的室友就住在这面墙对面，他负责支持和YouTube视频剪辑。

And then in terms of my team, I have my roommate who is just across from this wall, who is my support guy and YouTube video editor.

还有Joey Justice，我以前和他合作过很多次。

And then I have Joey Justice, who I've worked with a bunch in the past.

我们互相帮助，一起成长，他负责管理Discord社区。

We grew and helped each other, and he helps with community management in the Discord.

所以，基本上就是这样，团队规模就这些。

And so that's it, really, in terms of team size.

我做事的主要原则就是自己试验，然后不断迭代、坚持。

The main principles that I kind of operate by are self experimentation and just iteration persistence.

我喜欢从课程里学东西，尽可能多地拿东西来自己测试和尝试，但就是这样。

I like learning from courses and getting as many things as possible to test and try out myself, but that's exactly it.

我不喜欢那种什么都给我准备好的路子。

I I don't like going the route of having things given to me.

比如，给你一个完美的商业系统，你今天就能用。

Like, oh, here's the perfect business system that you can implement today.

我更倾向于自己动手建东西，然后拆掉。

More so, I just like to build things, break things.

过去三年我都是这么做的，一直在尝试突破别人说的商业上的不可能。

I've done that over the past three years and have kind of tried to push the boundaries of what people say is possible in business.

比如，常见的建议是，别去追你的热情。

Like, the common advice is like, don't chase your passion.

别这么做。

Don't do this.

所以我的想法是，好吧。

And so my brain goes, okay.

你可能是对的，但我还是想试试看行不行。

You may be right, but I'm going to try it out anyways and see if it works.

而且通常最后都成功了。

And it's usually ended up working.

你之前是做什么的？

What were you doing before this?

我进入线上业务的起点是自由职业的网页设计。

My kick start into online business was freelance web design.

这背后有个很长的故事，在那之前我几乎试遍了所有能想到的技能。

And so there's a long story that led up to that where I tried pretty much every skill imaginable.

我试过开内容代理公司，比如在Fiverr上外包给特定客户，也试过在Instagram上做数字艺术。

I tried to start like a a content agency where I'm like outsourcing to Fiverr for like specific clients, and I tried digital art on Instagram.

我还试过做SEO自由职业。

I tried doing an SEO like freelancing with SEO.

后来在大学里，我修了一门网页开发课程。

And eventually, in college, I took a web development course.

那是大学里唯一一门我真正感兴趣的课。

And that's the only college class that I was genuinely interested in.

所以放学后，我会去图书馆，在免费课程平台甚至Udemy上再自学三四个小时，尽量多学网页开发相关的东西。

And so after school, would go to the library and just study for another three to four hours on like free course platforms and even things like Udemy where I'm just trying to learn as much as I can related to web development.

我的计划就是，好，我要学这个。

My whole plan was, okay, I'm gonna take this.

这个技能很有前景，不仅能用来接自由职业或者自己干，而且万一实在没办法，我还能靠它找份工作，不需要学位。

There's a lot of promise here, not only in being able to freelance or do my own thing with this skill, but at the end of the day, if I absolutely have to, I can get a job with this skill as well without a degree.

所以那算是我的退路。

So that was kind of my escape plan.

结果第一次做自由网页设计并没有成功。

And so the freelance web design ended up not working out the first time around.

所以我最后确实在一家网页设计公司找到了工作，然后在那里工作学习，嗯，他们有销售部门，有市场部门。

So I did end up getting a job at a web design agency, and then like working there and studying, okay, they have a sales department, they have a marketing department.

我要去跟这些人聊聊，看看实际情况到底怎么样。

I'm gonna talk to these guys, see what's actually going on.

我对业务流程的理解更深了一些。

I understood the business processes a bit more.

我意识到自己技能组合里缺哪些东西，然后就开始为本地服务型企业做自由职业。

I was made aware of the skills that were missing in my stack, and then I was able to start freelancing for local service businesses.

后来我开始做创作者相关的事情时，就把那个服务转向了以服务为基础的创作者。

And then when I started the whole creator journey, I pivoted that offer to service based creators in a sense.

自由职业者、教练、创作者、顾问，最后又转向了营销咨询，卖了一段时间。

Freelancers, coaches, creators, consultants, and eventually pivoted into marketing consulting, sold that for a bit.

两年后，我不想把这个故事拖得太长，但现在我们就在这里了。

Two years later, I don't wanna drag this story on too long, but now we're here.

所以我就是以那段经历为基础，扩展到所有这些不同的平台。

And so I'm using that experience as my base for expanding to all of these different platforms.

有一个点特别有意思，因为我觉得很多人，包括我自己，都做过咨询、自由职业、上班或者开过公司，但我想说的是，大多数自由职业者几乎不敢想，如果能一个月赚一千美元，那就已经很不错了。

One is super interesting because I think a lot of people, including myself, have done consulting or done freelance or worked or been an agency, but I'm trying to get the the junk because most freelancers are barely trying to know, if they can make a thousand dollars a month, it's a great deal.

那你去年是怎么做到800，今年又做到2.5倍的？

So how did you, you know, last year do 800 and this year, you're two and a half?

你做的有什么不同？

Like, what's the difference that of what you did?

是不是因为你在网上作为创作者分享和教学，而不只是做服务？

Is it the fact that you were teaching and sharing on online as a creator instead of just doing the service work?

区别到底在哪里？

Like, what what is that difference?

是分发渠道。

It's distribution.

有意思的是，我这个月就要交房了，就在几天后。

So it's funny because I'm, like, closing on my first house this month in in, like, a few days.

申请房贷的时候，银行的人问我，为什么收入会有这么大的跳跃。

And so when applying for the mortgage, the guy asked, like, what is this considerable jump?

是什么导致了这么大的跳跃？

What led to this considerable jump?

归根结底，就是流量。因为我在产品上迭代了很多次，当时我在推特上大概有五万粉丝。

And at the end of the day, it was just traffic because I had iterated so much on the products that they were selling at the time when I had, like, let's say, 50,000 followers on Twitter.

我就是从那里开始的，挺有意思的，居然是推特。

That's where I started, which is interest like, Twitter of all things.

后来慢慢拓展到Instagram，YouTube也是随便做做，但一直坚持更新，后来也跟着涨起来了。

And then eventually branched out to Instagram, was kind of just doing YouTube for the sake of doing YouTube, stayed consistent with that, and then eventually that grew along with it.

所以当Instagram的粉丝超过推特，现在YouTube也快超过推特了，所有这些流量都导向那些产品，虽然还没完全优化，但转化率很高，交付也很好，等等。

And so as Instagram surpassed my Twitter following, and now YouTube is on the verge of surpassing my Twitter following, just all of that traffic leading to those same products that have a not completely optimized, but like very good conversion rate, good fulfillment, etcetera.

这就是最终的结果。

That's what it all led to.

所以今年有点像，我的想法在创作者经济里已经流传了一段时间，现在更多人开始讨论，指数增长开始显现，所以收入就出现了指数级的飞跃。

So this year was kinda like my ideas have been circulating in the creator economy for however long to now it's more people are talking about it, exponential growth is kicking in, and so that leads to the exponential leap in income.

我们能回到最开始聊聊吗？

Can we go back to the beginning of that?

所以你是在做服务。

So you're doing services.

你是怎么从服务开始转向创作者收入的？

How did you start transitioning from services into the creator revenue?

你是说数字产品之类的吗？

In terms of, like, digital products and such?

对，是的。

Well, yeah.

我就是好奇想了解一下，因为我觉得很多人，如果大家想复制你的成功路径，赚到第一个一万块，你是怎么走到那一步的？

Just I'm I'm curious to understand because I think a lot of people like, if people wanted to replicate your playbook to make maybe their first 10,000, like, what was your journey to get there?

那就是基于服务的自由职业。

That would be the service based, like, freelancing.

典型的建议就是，画出你的理想客户画像，搞清楚他们在网上哪里活跃，学会发一条像样的私信，把他们约到电话上，然后在那里成交。

It'd be the typical advice of map out your ideal customer, figure out where they're hanging around online, learn how to send a decent DM in order to get them on a phone, and then close there.

但我现在有点反其道而行之。

But I kind of go against that now.

我建议不管怎样，大家都应该开始打造个人品牌。

I recommend that people start a personal brand no matter what.

比如说，如果你是个自由职业者，只靠冷邮件或者在LinkedIn上找客户，但你不发布内容来证明你是专家，别人看你主页时就不会觉得你有权威，而且你也没在过程中积累观众，这样你就没法从那种不断发消息找客户的循环里跳出来，最终可以像我说的，慢慢减少依赖，更多靠你的观众，开始联系那些认识你、更可能买你服务的人。

Like, if you're a freelancer only doing cold email or prospecting on LinkedIn, but you're not putting out content that proves that you're an authority when they go to look at your profile, and you're not potentially building an audience along the way so that you can pivot out of the manual cycle of just consistently sending messages to land clients to the point where you can, as I said, wean off of that, bank more on your audience, start reaching out to people in your audience who know who you are and are much more likely to close on your service.

然后从那里开始，随着你的粉丝增长，这就是我经历的转折点，你得意识到自己增长的速度有多快。

And then from there, as you're following increases, this is where, like, the turning point happened for me where you have to be aware of how fast you're growing.

因为如果你的观众增长很快，而且都是对的人，那你很快就会到接不了那么多客户的地步。

Because if you're growing very fast with the right people in your audience, then you're gonna get to a point where you can't take on that many clients.

所以你就被迫要么把服务产品化，要么就得限制观众增长。

And so you're kind of forced to productize or you're forced to stunt your audience growth.

我见过一些人做这个选择，要么就停在原地，要么继续增长。

And so that's a choice I've seen a few people make, where they either stay or they continue to grow.

所以到了那个点，你就要么转向咨询，因为那样你能接更多客户，我觉得这要看情况。

And so at that point, that's when you either pivot more towards consulting because you can take on a bit more clients that way, I would argue, context dependent.

但你也可以把你已经在自由职业或咨询中使用的系统和成果，重新包装成一个数字产品，面向更广泛的受众，比如初级水平的观众，教育他们，直到他们愿意来买你的服务。

But you can also repackage the system and results that you're already using in your freelancer consulting offer into a digital product that is positioned more towards a broad audience, like a broad beginner level audience to educate them to the point of signing on to your service.

然后当你越做越大，又会遇到一个瓶颈，就是客户太多接不过来，所以你就得把服务产品化。

And then when as you grow larger and larger, again, you're going to hit a point where you can't take on that many clients, so then you have to productize that.

接下来就是每个人要自己做的选择了，是想做得特别大、特别广，还是保持中等规模，继续做得很专，比如针对一个非常具体的受众，提供特定的服务。

And then it's a choice that people have to make for themselves, whether they want to go, like, huge, like, big and broad, or stick around the medium and still be very specific, like, have a very specific audience leading towards a specific service based offer.

我很好奇你的收入水平，或者你愿意分享多少都行。

I'm curious to your different salary levels or whatever you're comfortable sharing.

听起来你挺愿意公开这些的。

It sounds like you you're open about it.

你还在做客户服务的时候，一年能赚多少？

What were you making a year doing service work when you were actually doing client work?

然后从开始做内容到现在，第一年的收入大概是多少？

And then what was, like, the first year of the the content creation work up until now?

大概说一下就行。

Maybe give it look.

因为我觉得时间线能让人有个概念，不是一夜之间就能成的，但确实可能很快，或者让大家知道大概需要多久。

Because I think time frames give people ideas of, like, it's not overnight, but yeah, can happen quickly, or here's how long it takes.

做服务工作的第一年，我还在上班。

So first year of service work, I was still at the job.

所以再说一次，我最不擅长记录这些东西了。

And so again, I'm like the worst at tracking like everything.

我网站上连谷歌分析都没装，那些东西都没有。

I don't even have Google Analytics on my website or, like, any of that.

挺奇怪的。

It's weird.

我得赶紧弄一下。

I need to get on that.

但如果我能给出最准确的估计，不夸大其词，因为我很在意准确性，我知道整个行业在这方面大概是什么情况。

But if I can give, like, the best estimate I can without over exaggerating things because I want to care about accuracy, I know how the entire industry can get around that.

第一年，我估计赚了不到一万美元。

First year, I would say it was less than $10,000 made.

那还是在我上班的时候。

That was while I was at the job.

然后随着我学得更多，也因为我开始更认真地想把它做起来——因为那份工作确实让我过得挺舒服的，所以我没有尽全力去做。

And then as I learned more and as I kind of became more serious about making it work because the job did make me a bit comfortable and I wasn't doing as much as I could.

我学得更多了。

I learned more.

我把我的服务做得更有吸引力了。

I made my service more enticing.

整个就像，你大概可以读一下Alex Hormozi的《1亿美元报价》，来做一个比我当时更好的服务初版，那时候我的服务就是，嘿。

The whole like, you could probably read a $100,000,000 offers by Alex Hormozi to, like, a better first iteration of your service than I did where it was like, hey.

我帮你建一个五页的网站之类的。

I'll build you a five page website or something like that.

第二年就接近六万美元了。

The second year was closer to $60,000.

而那时候，基本上就是我自己在干。

And then in that time frame, that was like on my own.

我快接近我的第一个十万美元了，光靠那个服务业务，而且还没有建立什么受众。

I was closing in on, like, my first 100 k made total only for that service business, like, without building an audience.

你做的是网页设计吗？

You're doing web design?

是的。

Yes.

所以是网页设计，后来我学会了怎么做出更好的方案，就把它精简成：我们做一个单页网站，这样更聚焦，然后加一个引导页，文案比大多数人写得都好，把用户引导到邮件序列里，再进入预约流程，我管它叫预约序列。前面几封邮件先给点价值，后面就是一整年的跟进，分开发送，不会让人烦，最后邀请他们预约那家公司的服务。

So it was web design, and then once I learned how to create a better offer, I condensed that into, okay, we're going to make a single page website so it's more focused, and then we're going to have an opt in page, we're gonna have better copy than most people can write, and lead people into an email sequence that into an appointment sequence, I called it, where it gives some value for the first few emails, and then there's just like a year's worth of follow ups that are split up in a non annoying way that would ask them to book an appointment for that business' service.

这样价值就提升了一点，我也能收更高的费用，还能把自己和其他网页设计师区分开来。

So there's a little increase in value there that I was able to charge more for and position myself differently from the other web designers in that space.

除此之外，等我上了推特之后，一开始不知道为什么，我很犹豫要不要在网上跟人合作。

Beyond that, once I got onto Twitter, for some reason at the start, I was very hesitant to try and work with people online.

我也不知道为什么，但我脑子里有个想法，就是必须从本地商家开始。

I don't know why, but I had this belief in my head where I had to start with local businesses.

那看起来是最好的切入点。

It just seemed like the best thing to go into.

所以等我上网、上了推特，先潜水了一段时间，我意识到，嘿。

And so when I got online, got on Twitter, was kind of lurking for a bit, I realized like, hey.

这里有人能用我完全一样的系统。

There's people here that could use my exact same system.

就是那种预约跟进，加上单页网站或落地页。

This whole, like, appointment follow-up with a single page website or landing page.

这对健身教练来说挺合适的。

And so that would work for fitness coaches pretty well.

对我看到的那些表现教练也适用。

That would work for, like, performance coaches that I'm seeing.

甚至可能对网上的自由职业者也行。

It may even work for freelancers, like, that are online.

所以我开始联系其他人，乔伊就是其中之一，免费帮创作者做事，同时也和他们交朋友，因为我知道在起步阶段，建立人脉和扩大社交圈对增长受众非常重要。

And so I started reaching out to other people, Joey being one of them, and was working with creators for free and just making friends with them as well because I knew that networking and building your network was a very important part of audience growth at the start.

所以我主动联系他们。

So I was reaching out to them.

我们就在Zoom上聊天，聊得很开心，我也在帮他们处理这些事情。

We were just talking in, like, Zoom calls, having a good time, and I was helping them with this stuff.

然后他们就会在我的页面上提到我，我们就有了整套增长策略。

And so then they would shout me out on their profile, and we had this whole strategy of growing.

随着创作者们的发展，这些推荐信也越来越多。

And eventually, those testimonials grew and grew as the creators did.

所以我意识到，我就想，我得全力专注于这些服务型创作者，因为如果他们成长了，而我现在从小做起，那么随着他们的成长，推荐信也会月复一月地增加。

And so I realized that, and I'm like, I need to just go all in on targeting these service based creators because if they're growing and I start small right now, then the testimonials are going to increase month after month as they grow.

而且推荐信的价值感也会提升。

And I mean testimonials are going to increase in perceived value.

所以在我所在的这个小推特圈子里，其他创作者看到我的落地页上的推荐信，看到这个我喜欢的、有两万粉丝的账号和这个人合作解决了他的营销问题，他们自然会觉得，选我而不是别人是合理的，对吧？

So the other creators in that little Twitter network that I'm in, when they go to my landing page and the testimonials are there and they see, oh, this 20 k follower account that I really like has worked with this guy to fix his marketing, it makes sense, right, that they're going to go with me over someone else.

这就是主要的进展。

And so that's the main progression.

就像，自从我知道自己在做什么，我达到了那个点，就像，哦，好吧。

Like, since I knew what I was doing and I hit that point of like, oh, okay.

我知道我能让这件事成功。

I know that I can make this work.

我知道我可以向这些人收更高的费用。

I know I can charge more for these people.

我知道这就是我想走的路，就是整个创作者经济。

I know that this is just the route that I want to go into, the creator economy in general.

我能想象自己长期做这个，也许不是服务本身，但这是我起步的方式。

I can see myself doing this for a long time, maybe not the service work, but that's how I'm gonna get started.

所以，如果要说个数字的话，我通过这种方式每个月多签了一到两个客户，当时服务费是2500美元。

And so, like, if I can put a number on it, I landed one to two extra clients a month doing it that way, and the service was $2,500 at the time.

所以加起来就不少了。

And so added up however much.

我不想在这里给出具体数字，但你可以想象。

I don't wanna give a number there, but can assume.

同时，这也挺有意思的，因为我发布第一个数字产品的时候，大概只有300到500个粉丝。

And then at the same time, it was a interesting dynamic because the first digital products that I released, I released around three to 500 followers.

那是一个网页设计课程，教你怎么建网站。

It was a web design course, like how to create websites.

所以那只是一个课程，教你怎么用WordPress、SiteGround和Elementor。

And so that was just like a course, how to use WordPress, SiteGround, Elementor.

挺基础的课程，刚开始卖47美元。

Pretty basic course that just went o it was like $47 to start.

卖得怎么样？

How did that sell?

卖得不错，但我的策略是，因为我当时想吸引那些想开始做自由职业的人。

It sold well, but so my strategy was because I was trying to target people that wanted to start freelancing.

而且做网页设计，我觉得跟网页开发者联系很合理，因为我对那个领域很熟悉。

And with web design, it made sense for me to connect with, like, web developers because I knew that space very well.

我当时已经关注了很多不同的网页开发者，因为我有那份工作，而且那确实是我真正感兴趣的东西。

I was already following so many different web developers because I had that job, and it was just something I was genuinely interested in.

所以我联系了几个账号，其中一个甚至主动提出做联盟推广，他当时有两万粉丝。

And so I reached out to a few accounts and one even offered to affiliate, and he had, like, 20,000 followers at the time.

然后他在他的页面上推广，一开始就带来了大概500到1000美元的收入，扣掉联盟费用之后。

And so he was plugging on his page, and that was pulling in, like, 500 to 1,000 in revenue minus affiliate costs, like, from the start.

然后我就想，好吧。

And so I was like, okay.

我明白了，这个方法可行，而且我不需要靠自己的粉丝流量来推动销售。

I see that this can work and that I don't have to use the traffic from my own audience to fuel these sales.

随着我对社交媒体领域了解得更多，我联系了一个卖类似数字产品的人，这也是我遵循“买家会再次购买”这个原则的做法。

And so as I learned more about the social media space, I reached out to someone who sold a similar digital product, and this is me following the principle of, like, buyers buy again.

根据我个人的经验，我知道我在进入这个领域时买了50门不同的网页设计课程。

And from my personal experience, I know that I bought 50 different web design courses going into it.

所以我联系了一个当时有5万粉丝的人。

So I reached out to a guy who had 50,000 followers at the time.

他也在卖网页设计课程，我问他是否愿意转发我的内容。

He was also selling a web design course, and I asked if he would be open to retweeting my content.

这是付费的。

And it was paid.

我想我之前提过这个。

I think I mentioned that.

但我是付钱让他转发我的内容的。

But paying him to retweet my content.

所以这有点像网红营销。

So like influencer marketing in a sense.

所以当我写关于网页设计的推文时，比如实用的网页设计技巧或者网页设计的重要性，我就不细说具体内容了。

So when I wrote a tweet on web design, like actionable tips on web design or the importance of web design, like, I'll I'll spare you the actual content.

但他会转发那些推文，然后我在下面放上我的产品链接。

But he would retweet that, and then I would plug my product under it.

这样我就从那个有五万粉丝的账号获得了流量，他们点进去看到推广，就可能购买。

And so I'm getting the traffic from that 50,000 follower account to that post, and then when they click, see the promotion, they could buy.

我有这些的截图，但卖那个产品的第一个月，我只有三百到五百个粉丝，却赚了三千美元。

So I have screenshots of this, but my first month selling that product, I made $3,000 with three to 500 followers.

这让我更加确信了，就像，好吧。

And so that kind of solidified it for me as well where it's like, okay.

我不仅应该在初期多投入这种网红营销的推广方式，因为它能带来销售，而且同时我也在慢慢积累自己的受众。

Not only should I invest more in this influencer marketing shout out type deal, at least at the start, because it pulls in sales, but at the same time, I'm building an audience along the way.

而且通过这种方式，人们关注我只是因为他们真的喜欢我的内容。

And doing it this route, people are only following me because they actually like my content.

他不是在说，哦，去关注这个人。

He he's not doing any, oh, go follow this guy.

他发布的信息很好。

He's putting out great information.

他只是转发我的内容，如果他们喜欢我关于网页设计的观点，他们会自然地点击我的主页，看看是否喜欢，然后关注我，这样我就有了一个真正感兴趣的粉丝，同时还能赚钱。

It's just a retweet on my content where if they like what I'm saying about web design, they're going to organically click my profile, see if they like it, and follow me, and then I have an engaged follower that way while making sales.

哇。

Wow.

我喜欢这个方法，也喜欢你不需要拥有最大的粉丝群就能赚最多的钱这个事实。

I love the approach, and I love the fact that you don't have to have the biggest following to make the biggest money.

我不是说这是最大的，但这里面确实有很强大的东西，因为我觉得人们可能有一个错误的想法。

I'm not saying it's the biggest, but like there's something really powerful about that because I think people have this potentially wrong idea.

他们觉得，我需要所有这些粉丝。

They're like, I need all these people.

你能稍微解释一下吗？

Can you maybe clarify a little bit?

你是怎么做成第一笔一万美元的？是靠服务，还是靠内容？

How did you make your first $10,000 with maybe the service work and then with the content work?

内容这块，听起来就是那个课程。

The content one, it sounds like it's this course.

服务这块，你是主动联系别人来获得第一批客户的吗？

With the service work, like, did you reach out to people to get your first clients?

我当时用的方法，具体记不太清了。

So the method I was using, I don't remember exactly.

我没用什么获客软件。

I wasn't using any kind of lead generation software.

我当时就是纯手工操作，那是我五年前刚开始做自由职业的时候。

I was doing the super manual work, and this was like the very start of my freelancing journey was five years ago.

开始做内容创作是三年多以前。

Very start of creator journey was a little over three years ago.

所以在我自由职业刚开始的时候，我的方法就是，好吧。

So at the very start of the freelancing journey, my method was, okay.

我想跟像害虫防治、建筑这类服务行业合作。

I want to work with, like, pest control, construction, the service niche.

说实话，我就是随便选了一个，因为那时候大家都在说，哦，最赚钱的行业。

I honestly just picked one because that's when everyone was talking about, oh, the most profitable niche.

比如，你得去瞄准健身房。

Like, you need to go and target gyms.

你得去做这个。

You need to go and do this.

然后我就想，害虫防治，听起来挺赚钱的。

And so I was like, pest control, they sound like they make money.

水管工，听起来也挺赚钱的。

Plumbers, they sound like they make money.

所以我就去Yelp上看了看。

And so I looked on Yelp.

我就直接在谷歌上搜了当地的一些人。

I just Google searched people in the area.

其中一些人，我用了一个邮箱抓取工具，能从他们网站上找到邮箱，或者我就直接去网站手动找，比如想着，好。

And for some of them, I use an email scraper where it'll find the email on their website, or I just go to the website and do the manual prospecting of like, okay.

我要找到这个邮箱，存到自己的表格里，然后回来发一封精心写好的冷邮件。

I'm gonna find this email, save it to my own spreadsheet, and then I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna send a well thought out cold email.

我也偶尔试过用领英。

I tried LinkedIn here and there.

也偶尔试过打冷电话。

I tried cold calls here and there.

还有整个社交网络也很强大，大家都说要去联系自己的直接人脉。

And the whole network as well is very powerful where where people tell you to reach out to your direct network.

所以我认识一个卖床垫的。

And so I knew someone who was selling mattresses.

我也不想让人觉得我一开始就对水管工、害虫防治这类领域特别投入，其实也不是。

I also don't wanna make it sound like I was super dedicated to this niche at the start of the plumbers pest control, whatever.

那是我冷启动外联的主要方向，但我什么活都接。

That was where I was focusing most of my cold outreach methods, but I would take on any work.

所以我当时也在联系我的朋友和家人。

And so I was reaching out to my friends, my families.

有几个客户就是他们给我介绍来的。

I landed a few just from them sending referrals my way.

剩下的基本上都是靠死缠烂打地发冷邮件得来的。

And the rest really came from just being annoying with cold email.

先发第一封，然后每隔两三天就跟进一次，直到对方回复。

Sending the first message, making an effort to follow-up, like, every two, three days until I get a response.

大多数时候你得脸皮厚，因为他们会叫你滚蛋。

Most of the time, you have to have thick skin because they're gonna tell you to fuck off.

很多人根本不想搭理你。

Like, they a lot of them don't want anything to do with it.

但当然，总有那么一个人愿意听你多说几句。

But there's, of course, the one who's open to hearing more.

他们会跟你通个电话。

They get on a call with you.

你带他们走一遍流程。

You walk them through it.

他们就成交了。

They close.

其实整个过程就是这样，赚到第一笔一万美元真的特别辛苦。

And that's really the process where it's like, it was a major grind to make that first $10,000.

所以我才说，我建议你打造个人品牌，这样你能吸引并找到真正想合作的人，然后直接通过这种方式联系他们，因为你已经深入这个圈子了。

And so that's why I say, I recommend starting a personal brand so you can attract and find people that you actually wanna work with and be able to just reach out to them that way because you're immersed in the space.

我觉得很多人错过的一点是，在社交媒体上，你已经关注了所有你潜在想合作的人，而且对他们了如指掌。

That's what I feel like a lot of people miss out on is when you're on social media, you're already following all of the people that you would potentially want to work with, and you know them inside out.

那些人就是你平时看的、关注的。

That's who you watch and that's who you consume.

所以如果他们不是超级大明星，而你关注的是那些有十万、二十万、五十万甚至十万粉丝的人或企业，他们还在私信里活跃，努力发展业务，那合作就很简单了。

And so if they're not like mega celebrities and you're following these people or businesses with ten, twenty, 50, a 100,000 followers where they're still active in the DMs and trying to grow their business, then it's just easy.

因为你一直在刷。

Because you're scrolling.

就像，好吧。

It's like, okay.

我应该私信这个人。

I should DM this guy.

然后你私信他们，提供一些价值，要么约个电话，要么直接在私信里推销。

And you DM them, give some form of value, either get on a call or pitch in DMs.

有很多不同的方式可以尝试，但你明白我的意思吧，就是创作内容，和你想要互动的小圈子互动，看到机会就抓住，然后通过持续的努力，你会积累起观众，让你的名字和产品被足够多的人知道，到时候想不赚钱都难。

There's a lot of different ways to go about it, but you get what I'm saying here, where create content, interact with the little community you wanna interact with, take your shots when you see them, and then with consistent effort, you're gonna grow an audience, and you're gonna get your name and offer in enough people's mouths to the point where it's going to be very difficult not to make money.

你的团队

What does

是什么样的？

your team look like?

大概成本是多少，为什么你决定用自由职业者？

The rough cost of it, and why did you decide to have freelancers?

所以室友，我付他三千美元，另外还帮他付房租。

So roommate, I'm paying him I'm paying him $3,000 plus I pay for his rent.

所以严格来说，他不用付房租，而且还有三千块额外给他。

So technically, he doesn't pay rent, and it's 3,000 on top of that.

Joey那边也是三千，负责社区管理。

For Joey, it's 3,000 as well for the community management.

然后软件是主要的其他开销，大概一年四千左右，因为社区费用很高，而且订阅用户多了以后，邮件营销的费用也会上去。

And then software is, like, the main other cost, which is, like, 4,000 ish a year for all of it because community is insane, and email marketing gets up there when you have a lot of subs.

我保持小规模的原因，一是因为我还没花时间或精力去学怎么招人，而且我也一直不太想招。

My reasoning for keeping it small is because, one, I just haven't put the time or effort into learning how to hire people, and I've never really had the desire to.

我承认我有点执着于一人公司的理念，这已经成了我的一部分，我正在努力从观念上摆脱这个身份认同。

I'll admit that I'm kind of tied to the one person business solopreneurship ideology, like it's a part of me, and I'm working to conceptually survive that identity that I've formed.

但与此同时，这也是我觉得有趣的地方，我不仅非常推崇一人公司模式，而且我很喜欢每天只工作四小时左右。

But at the same time, that's what makes it fun to me, where I'm not only very big on the one person business model, but I'm big on working four ish hours a day.

这个我们可以再细聊。

We can talk more about that.

但我的整个想法就是，我的决策都围绕着能不能一个人搞定，会不会影响我工作的时间，以及能不能全身心投入到我真正喜欢的事情上，也就是写作。

But, like, my entire thing is my decision making sways around, like, whether I can do it as one person and whether or not it's going to compromise the amount of time I spent working, and whether or not I can give full attention to the stuff that I actually like to do, and that is writing.

写作和内容创作，我觉得自己会做很长时间。

Like, writing and content is just something that I see myself doing for quite a long time.

你说你希望每天工作四小时。

So you said you'd you'd like to work four hours a day.

能不能给大家讲讲，你典型的一天工作是什么样的？

Maybe can you break walk people through, like, what your typical workday looks like?

所以总会有个问题，就是你不可能一辈子每天都只工作四小时。

And so the question that always arises is, like, you won't be able to work four hours a day every single day for the rest of your life.

完全同意。

Completely agree.

就像有时候是增肌期，有时候是减脂期。

Like, there's times where it's like bulking and cutting.

我喜欢拿健身来打比方。

I like to make the reference to bodybuilding.

会有那么一段时间，我一天工作八小时、十二小时、甚至十六小时，纯粹是因为太投入了，想赶紧把业务推进到下一个阶段。但到了某个点，你就会发现自己快撑不住了，快精疲力竭了，整个人很没精神，就像增肌期快结束时的感觉一样。这时候你就得减下来，把那些核心的东西系统化，压缩到每天四小时，好维持你在业务上达到的那个新基准。

It's like, there's gonna be times where I work eight, twelve, sixteen hours a day just out of pure obsession to reach that next phase of business, But then you get to the point where it's like you're nearing overwhelm, you're nearing burnout, you feel sluggish like you would if you were nearing the end of a bulking season, and then you have to cut back down and try to systemize the main components of that into four hours a day to sustain that new baseline that you've reached in business.

所以我的工作日安排，基本上已经定下来了，短期内不会变。

And so my workday, like, I've kind of settled on what it's gonna be for a while.

早上第一件事，我大概五点到五点半起床。

But first thing in the morning, I'm waking up at, like, five, 05:30.

我不是那种“每个人都应该早起”的人。

I'm not the whole, like, oh, everyone should wake up earlier.

我就是自己喜欢早起。

I just enjoy doing it.

然后我起床之后，

And I'll wake up.

就直接下楼，在跑步机上走斜坡，做大概二十分钟的有氧，因为我现在在减脂期。

I'll go straight down, just walk, incline on the treadmill, do, like, twenty minutes of cardio because I'm cutting at the moment.

但这样也能让你清醒过来。

But at the same time, it it wakes you up.

这能让你清醒起来。

It gets you up.

让你动起来，让血液流动起来。

It gets you moving, gets the blood pumping.

然后我会洗个澡，处理该处理的事，然后直接开始写我的书。

And then I'll shower, do whatever I have to, and then just go straight into writing my book at the moment.

所以我把事情分成四十五到九十分钟的时间块。

So I structure things in forty five to ninety minute time blocks.

就像四小时工作制一样，我非常看重概念性的截止时间。

As with the four hour workday, I'm very big on, like, conceptual deadlines.

它们不一定要是真实的，但如果你心里有个计时器或者某种提醒，告诉你快到该停止工作的时间了，就像帕金森定律那样，我会试着让这起作用。

They don't have to be absolutely real, but if you're like, even just having a timer and something in your mind that is telling you, okay, it's getting close to the time where you need to stop working, like Parkinson's law, I'm going to try to make that work.

所以我会花大约四十五到九十分钟写书，这段时间通常用于我当时正在构建的任何新项目。

So I'll do about forty five to ninety minutes of writing in my book, and this time block is usually for, like, whatever prod new project I'm building at the time.

所以现在就是写书。

So right now it's a book.

之前是那个大课程。

Last it was, like, the big course that I have.

再之前是社区，等等。

Before that was the community, so on and so forth.

所以最重要的项目放在早上第一件事做。

So main priority project happens first thing in the morning.

然后之后，我会花四十五到九十分钟写我的通讯，有时候在咖啡店，我很喜欢咖啡店。

And then after that, I write my newsletter for forty five to ninety minutes again, sometimes at a coffee shop, love coffee shops.

但之后，我会查看我的社区，回复邮件，这又是一个四十五到九十分钟的清理时间块。

But after that, that's when I'll check into my community, I'll answer emails, and this is just like another forty five to ninety minute cleanup time block.

然后之后，我通常会进行像这样的通话。

And then after that is when I'll usually have calls like this.

然后之后，我和我的室友喜欢一起出去吃午饭。

And then after that, I like me and my roommate, we always go out to lunch afterwards.

那是我们的惯例。

That's like our thing.

所以我们就会出去吃午饭。

So we'll go out to lunch.

我们会在镇上逛逛，通常要花两三个小时，就是闲逛、休息、玩得开心。

We'll rock around the town, and that usually takes two, three hours of just hanging out, resting, having a good time.

回来后，我通常会再进社区看一眼，然后我就收手了。

Come back, and I'll usually do a second check-in in the community, and then I cut myself off there.

晚上剩下的时间，我会闲逛、看书、刷Netflix，然后做晚饭。

Rest of the night is like, I'll hang out, I'll read a book, binge some Netflix, and make dinner.

你用什么软件工具来管理这些所有事情？

What software tools are you using to run all this stuff?

几乎所有事情，我都用Kartra。

So for almost everything, I use Kartra.

我不推荐也不反对，只是因为我用得太久了，几乎不可能离开这个平台，尤其是上面有产品、会员、邮件营销、我所有的邮件序列、通讯，所有东西都在Kartra里。

I don't recommend or not recommend it, simply because I've just been using it to the point where it would be near impossible to get off the platform, especially when there's, like, products hosted there, memberships, email, marketing, all of my email sequences, newsletter, everything is in Kartra.

然后社区是在Circle里。

And then the community is in Circle.

Circle有点像付费博客，里面放策略和路线图。

Circle's like it's kinda like a paid blog aspect with strategies, road maps.

而Discord则是同步交流的地方，大家都能聊天。

And then Discord is where, like, the synchronous communication takes place and everyone can talk.

我就在那里发更新什么的。

That's where I post updates, etcetera.

所以就是Kartra、Circle、Discord，还有TweetHunter用来安排推文。

So Kartra, Circle, Discord, TweetHunter for scheduling tweets.

我之前没提过，我写的那个通讯基本就是我的全部内容，每天花四十五到九十分钟写，周六发出去。

And so I I didn't mention this previously, but the newsletter that I write is basically all of my content, where I'm spending forty five to ninety minutes writing that every single day, put that out on Saturday.

接下来一周，那内容就变成YouTube脚本，再下一周就发成视频。

The next week, that's used as a YouTube script, and that's put out as a video the next week.

然后从那里，我再拿它来生成推文的点子。

And then from that, I use that as idea generation for tweets.

当然，我也会时不时随手写些推文。

And, of course, I'll write some tweets here and there just off the dome.

那些其实就是截图，或者稍微排版一下发到Instagram上。

Those are literally screenshotted or, like, formatted to be posted on Instagram.

我最好的推文也会被用作Reels、TikTok和Shorts的脚本。

They're also used my best tweets are used as scripts for Reels and TikToks and Shorts.

然后我就直接把推文复制粘贴到LinkedIn上，这基本上就是我自上而下的内容策略，效果出乎意料地好。

And then I just copy paste tweets over to LinkedIn, and that's kind of, like, my top down content strategy that's been working surprisingly well.

听起来跟Justin Welsh的做法很像。

That sounds very similar to Justin Welsh.

我们经常一起商量策略，确实会互相借鉴一些东西。

We, like, strategize quite a bit and kind of we definitely take from each other here and there.

我们关系挺近的。

We're we're pretty close.

比如，我们会时不时聊聊天，但我确实从他那里学了不少有用的东西，我也看到他开始采用我做的那些newsletter推广方式，因为那也是我推广的主要手段。

Like, we'll talk every now and then, but I'll see him I've definitely taken things that I've seen from him work, and I've seen him, like, start to implement the newsletter promotions that I do because that's also how I promote.

我的newsletter不仅是我大部分内容的基础，我还会把那些内容同步到博客上。

Not only is my newsletter the, like, foundation of most of my content, but I backlog that newsletter to the blog.