我们如何遇见办公室女士们

我认为我喜欢这两部剧的一个共同点是那些救赎时刻，当某个角色在挣扎时，总会有那么一刻让你心头一颤。

I think one of the things I like about both of the shows is that that redemption moment where there is a character that is struggling with something, and there's always that moment where your heart takes a turn.

我觉得你们把这点处理得特别好。

And I thought you guys did that so well.

我特别喜欢那个瞬间。

And I love the moment.

这集里我最喜欢的场景之一就是迈克尔和凯莉之间的互动。

My one of my favorite moments in this episode is between Michael and Kelly.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

是啊。

Yeah.

还有当他坦露自己有多挣扎的时候。

And and when he shares how much he struggles.

他对她展现出了彻底的坦诚。

And he gets really honest with her.

这太甜蜜了。

It's so sweet.

那种不是为镜头表演的方式，不像他平时那样，乔什。

Way that's not performative for the camera the way he normally is, Josh.

他有点像那种'选我'的角色。

He is kind of like the pick me.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像那种角色，但他对她非常坦诚。

Like like character, but he was just really honest with her.

我一直很喜欢迈克尔的那个转变时刻。

And I used to love that transition moment for Michael.

没错。

Yeah.

你知道吗，我突然想到观众可能会问自己一个问题：为什么这个摄制组还在跟拍这些人？

You know, it also occurs to me like a question you one might ask themselves is like, why is this film crew still filming these people?

是的。

Yes.

我是这样想的，就像一个有着出色电影眼光的人会认为，这些人非常引人入胜。

The way I think about it is like a like a person with a really good filmmaking eye would be like, these are fascinating people.

就像有一个引人入胜的故事正在展开，它不是关于国王和女王，也不是关于超级富豪。

Like there's a fascinating story going And on it's not about kings and queens and it's not about super wealthy people.

它是关于普通人的故事，而且你知道，多年来吉姆和帕姆之间有些契诃夫式的瞬间。

It's about people and the just, there were moments, you know, with Jim and Pam over the years that were like like Chekhov.

他们就像...是的。

Like they're like Yes.

他们就像，你知道，简·奥斯汀笔下那种指尖轻触就迸发魔力的场景，如同盛大烟花般绚烂。

They're like, you know, like a, you know, in the Jane Austen or something like the fingertips graze together and it's just like magic, like big firework kind of thing.

我觉得正是这种朴素赋予了它神话般的质感，如果这说得通的话。

And I feel like the modesty of it is actually what gives it its mythic quality, if that makes sense.

因为它真的只是关于斯克兰顿普通人的故事。

Like that it's just really about people in Scranton.

正因如此，某种程度上我甚至比常规电影更爱纪录片——因为能观察人们无意识状态下的行为。

And if you ever watch that's why I think I, in some ways, I love documentaries even more than regular films, because watching people behave in an unselfconscious way.

就像你在机场或杂货店观察人群时，每个人都是天才演员。

Like if you if you watch people in the airport or in the grocery store, everyone is a brilliant actor.

所有人都在用精湛演技表演着如何挑选一个甜瓜。

Like everyone is a everyone is giving like a brilliant performance of picking out a melon.

知道吗？

Know?

是啊。

Yeah.

确实如此。

That's true.

实际上他们就是那样做的，观察起来非常有趣。

Actually they're actually doing it and it's fascinating to watch.

我们戏剧项目的负责人说过：'我永远不会感到无聊，因为周围总有人可观察。'

We had, the woman who ran my drama program was like, I'm never bored because there are people around.

比如，我可以直接研究人类行为，你知道吗？

Like, I can just study human behavior, you know?

是啊。

Yeah.

那是我最喜欢的地方——机场。

That's my favorite thing airport.

我会带本日记本，专门记录人们的举动。

I take a journal and I will just write down what people are doing.

没错。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It's true.

我超爱这样。

I love it.

不过我也觉得，我们正在与那个让人分心的矩形屏幕作斗争，它让我们远离了这种观察。

Well, I also think we're fighting the distracting rectangle that is taking us away from that.

是啊。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

对。

Yeah.

确实如此。

For sure.

通过

By the

安吉拉，顺便说一句，那看起来非常可疑。

Angela, way, that looks very suspicious.

我只是想提醒你做好准备，如果你在机场...可能会被逮捕

I just wanna I want you to be prepared that you may get arrested at an airport at some point if you're

只是拿着笔在写写画画

just taking if you just have a pen out and

你在记笔记。

you're taking notes.

小心点。

Just be careful.

我就说这么多。

That's all I'm saying.

所有听办公室女士节目的人都知道我有记日记的习惯。

Everyone that listens to office ladies knows that I keep a journal.

我在我们的播客里提到过。

I have read it on our podcast.

所以我希望当我在机场观察人们并记录时，能有办公室女士的听众

So I I hope that when I am, like, observing people at the airport and jotting things down, some office ladies member

她没事的。

She's okay.

会来帮我

Will come to my

她没事的。

She's okay.

我们

We

知道。

know.

来帮我。

Come to my aid.

如果，比如说，如果有人想举报她。

If, like, if someone's like, write her up.

她正要提交。

She's to submitting it.

手机。

Phone.

对。

Yeah.

她为什么没在玩手机？

Why is she not on her phone?

我刚读完一本叫《告诉我一切》的书，简直爱不释手。

I just read this book called Tell Me Everything that I just absolutely loved.

这本书的主题是每个人的生命都有值得讲述的故事。

And the theme of this book is that every person's life has a story worth telling.

所以它是缅因州某个小镇上形形色色人们生活的片段集锦。

And so it's a collection of small snippets of a whole bunch of different people's lives from this town in Maine.

我简直看不够，因为这就像书本形式的人物观察实录。

And I just, like, couldn't get enough of it because it was like people watching in book form.

但它给了我灵感，我想跟你们分享一下这个想法。

But it gave me an idea, I'm gonna run it by you guys.

我觉得我做不了，某种程度上说，克雷格，根据你刚才告诉安吉拉的情况。

I think I can't do it, Sort of, Craig, based on what you just told Angela.

我冒出这个念头。

I had this idea.

这太疯狂了。

This is so insane, though.

这太疯狂了。

This is so insane.

我听起来会像个疯子。

I'm gonna sound so crazy.

我当时想，我能不能，比如说，李，我得在城市里做这件事。

I was like, could I, like, lee I'd have to do this in a city.

在开车的情况下没法这么做。

You can't do this in a driving situation.

但是，比如说，我能偷偷跟踪一个人吗？

But like, could I secretly follow a person?

不行。

No.

我们要

We're gonna

就从那里开始。

start with right there.

只需观察他们所做的一切。

Just observe all of what they do.

比如，他们在商店买了什么？

Like, what did they buy at the store?

也许我会开始，你知道，比如他们是做什么的？

Like maybe I start, you know, like what are they?

哦，我在想他们要做什么菜

Oh, I wonder what they're going to cook

电视和电影。

television and films.

官方认证的珍娜·费舍。

Jenna Fisher official.

整个计划都被播客记录下来了。

And it was all the plan was all captured on the podcast.

她在行动前就坦白了

Confessed before she

甚至还没做

even did it.

我做不到

I can't.

就像我们刚才讨论的那样，我也深有同感

It just it just I am similarly like we're talking about.

我对这些细节非常着迷

I am fascinated by the details Well, of

这是《办公室》最棒的特点之一

mean, that's one of the great things about The Office.

就像乔什说的，你感觉自己正在偷偷潜入

Like Josh was saying, you feel like you're sneaking in.

乔什，我当时非常震惊

Josh, I was so struck.

我说过我们两个节目之间有很多相似之处，我很喜欢，而且我还可以继续说更多。

I said many similarities between our two shows and that I love and I could I could say more.

事实上，这结局有点像几个悬念，安吉拉，你和德怀特最后那场戏，我们得聊聊那场戏。

The fact that this ends on kind of like a couple of cliffhangers, Angela, the you and the you and Dwight scene at the end, we have to talk about that scene.

那真是太精彩了。

That was magnificent.

我们总得找个时间讨论这个。

We got to get there at some point.

哦，真奇怪。

Oh, weird.

我们两个节目非常非常不同的一点是，我们用音乐来对观众进行情感操控。

Very, very different about our two shows is we used music to be very emotionally manipulative to the audience.

我们——我们是一群音乐迷。

We were we were we're music nerds.

就像我说的，卡特和我，我们——我们的联系首先是音乐上的，然后才是纸上写字的合作。

Like I said, Carter and I, like, we our our connection was musical before it was writing words on a page.

乔希是个十足的音乐迷，他会来向我们推荐歌曲，我们就把那些歌放进节目里。

Josh would Josh is a complete music nerd and would come and pitch us songs that we put on the show.

时隔几年再次观看《办公室》时，我深受触动。

I was really struck watching it again, watching the office for the first time in a few years.

那种静谧感，那种没有配乐的事实，整个音效就是一间办公室的声音。

The quietness, this this the fact that there's no music, the fact that the soundtrack is the sounds of an office.

是呼吸声，是纸张翻动声，是键盘敲击声。

It's breathing, it's papers moving, it's keyboards clacking.

有种如此迷人、美妙得令人着迷的特质，真的能把你吸引进去。

There's something so hypnotic, wonderfully hypnotic, that really draws you in.

这确实有种偷窥感。

It really is voyeuristic.

你真的就像在暗中观察这些人，这种手法极其深刻地让你代入角色，而不需要被告知该如何感受。

You really are there just spying on people, and it just works so profoundly well to make you you're in those characters shoes, and you're not being told how to feel.

你就在那里。

You're just there.

我听说斯堪的纳维亚那边兴起了一种叫'慢电视'的东西。

I I heard about this thing that's taking off in Scandinavia, and it's called Slow TV.

你们听说过这个吗？

Have you guys heard about this?

基本上就是长时间不间断的场景。

It's basically like long uninterrupted scenes.

都是人们在自然环境中的场景。

Scenes where people are in nature.

虽然也有故事线，但主要是自然场景，就让它自然呈现。我觉得随着生活节奏越来越快，人们渴望慢下来，让故事慢下来，给我一个呼吸的空间。

There's a story being told, but it's like scenes in nature that are just allowed to be I think like as things get so fast paced, people are longing for just like slow it down, like slow me down, slow this story down, give me a moment to breathe.

有时候我刷手机太久后就会有这种感觉。

And I sometimes feel that after being on my phone too much.

就像'天啊，快把这东西拿走，让我...不知道，给我讲个长点的故事什么的'。

Just like, Oh my God, take this thing away from me and let me just, I don't know, tell me like a longer story or something.

我能说一件事吗？回到珍娜那个跟踪别人的犯罪情节。

Can I say one thing just going back to what Jenna's criminal plot to follow this person?

跟踪某人一整天。

To follow somebody for a day.

是啊。

Yeah.

请说。

Please.

你们听说过《晦涩忧伤词典》吗？

So have you guys ever heard of, I think it's called the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows.

这本书是绝佳的礼物选择，无论是送人还是自用。

It's this book that is such a good gift book if you want to get a gift for someone or yourself.

但这个人发明了新词。

But this guy invented new words.

就像，把两个词各取一部分组合起来叫什么来着？

Like, took like what's it called when you take like part of one word and part of another?

他是迈克尔·斯科特吗？

Was he Michael Scott?

不是。

No.

但但我们的节目，这是另一个相似之处。

But but both our shows, that is another similarity.

他不是个词汇编织者。

It's not a word wrangler.

对。

Yeah.

里面有很多新术语。

There's a of new terms.

是的。

Yeah.

但里面有个他称之为'sonder'的词的定义，我想是这么拼的，这是一种感觉，突然意识到街上与你擦肩而过的每个人、高速公路上每辆车里的每个人，他们都和你一样拥有丰富复杂的内心世界，和你一样引人入胜的人生故事。

But there's a there's a definition in there of a word he calls, I think it's called sonder, and it's the feeling, the sudden realization that everyone passing you on the street and everyone in every car on the highway that you're driving, each of those people has just as robust an interior life as you do, and just as fascinating a story as you do.

我觉得我们都有种倾向，就像自我中心的主角是我们自己，对吧？

And I think there's a tendency like we all kind of the ego main character is us, right?

而其他所有人都是背景板，或者其他人就像障碍物一样，他们只是车流中的一员，对吧？

And everyone else is background or everyone else is like in the way, they're just traffic, right?

但如果真的去关注每一辆车，如果你真的像珍娜打算做的那样非法跟踪他们，你会发现一些珍贵的东西。

But like to really key into every single one of those cars, if you really, you know, illegally followed them like Jenna's going to do, like you'd find something golden.

比如一些令人心碎的事，一些迷人的事，一些新奇古怪的事。

Like something heartbreaking, something fascinating, some new weird thing.

但确实，当你想到每个个体都是如此错综复杂时，这种感觉几乎让人难以承受。

But yeah, it's almost unbearable when you think about how complicated and complex that every individual is.

我能对我们办公室女士的听众说句话吗？

Can I just say something to our office ladies audience?

大家注意，乔什·拉德纳刚刚给出的'存在感'定义——这类金句正是你们收听《我们如何制作》时会收获的

Everyone, definition of sonder that we have just been given from Josh Radner, these are the types of nuggets that you're going to get when you listen to How We Made

《你母亲》。

Your Mother.

比如，会坐着

Like, will sit

带着这个想法好几天。

with that thought for days.

这经常发生在我身上。

And this happens to me all the time.

每次我听你们的播客时都会这样。

All the time when I listen to your podcast.

你们提供的某些内容让我觉得，哦，我要好好消化很久。

You you you offer something that I'm just like, oh, I'm just gonna I'm gonna digest that for so long.

我简直爱死这种感觉了。

I freaking love that.

我走路或开车时总在想，看到路边的人时就会想，这可能就是我们一生中唯一一次同时出现在同一个地方。

I think all the time when I'm walking or driving, I'll think I'll see someone on the side of the road, and I'll think that is the only time in both of our lifetimes that we'll ever be in the same place at the same time.

我和那个人，我不知道他们的名字，对他们一无所知。

Me and that person, and I don't know their name, I don't know anything about them.

然而在这个有数十亿人的世界里，曾有那么一天我们同时出现在了同一个地方。

And yet in this world of billions of people, there was a day when we were in the same place at the same time.

这难道不是很奇妙吗？

And just how, like, magnificent is that?

你会想，如果这家伙没发现我今天一直在跟踪他，这将是我们唯一一次眼神交汇的时刻。

You're like, if this guy doesn't catch me stalking him for the rest of this day, this will be the only moment our eyes make eye contact.

不过确实如此。

It's so true, though.

我可能会这么做

I might do

伙计们，我会的。

it, you guys.

我不了解这段对话。

I don't know this conversation.

你觉得有没有可能事先征求同意？

Do you think there's any world where you could just ask for permission before?

不可能。

No.

因为那样的话，他们的行为可能就只是做做样子。

Because then they'll be then it might be performative.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

That's right.

那么他们可能会选择比在无人观察时更健康的食物，我感觉是这样。

Then might would they might choose healthier foods than they I feel like unobserved.

我觉得他们做过这个，那叫陪审团义务。

I think they did this and it was called jury duty.

那是个电视连续剧。

It was a series on television.

这部剧是由《办公室》的两位编剧创作的。

Which was written by two of the office writers.

没错。

That's right.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

伙计们，你们完全可以来个生活大转弯，比如

You guys, you could just have a life pivot where you

转行当侦探。

become a detective.

安吉拉，我们想当妈妈侦探。

Well, Angela, we want to be mom detectives.

也许这就是部分原因。

Maybe this part of why.

这节目太棒了。

This is a that's a great show.

对啊。

Yeah.

那是

That's a

好节目。

great show.

你

You.

这么认为。

Think so.

解决没人关心的案件，而且总有零食吃。

Solving crimes no one cares about, and we always have snacks.

而且我们几乎从未破案。

And we almost never solve it.

零食不断。

Endless snacks.

每集结束时，我们的口号是：我们可能永远无法知道真相。

At the end of every episode, our tagline is we may never know.

我们可能永远都不会知道。

We may never know.

就是这样。

That's it.

没有回报，克雷格。

There's no payoff, Craig.

抱歉。

Sorry.

有很多铺垫

There's a lot of setup

却没有回报。

with no payoff.

相信我。

Believe me.

把它拉长。

Stretch it out.

我们花了九年时间不断拖长剧情。

We did nine years of stretching it out.

我想稍微聊聊你们是如何拍摄这部剧的，因为《办公室》和《老爸老妈浪漫史》差不多是同时期开播的。

Well, I want to talk a little bit about how you guys shot the show because The Office and How I Met Your Mother, they both started around the same time.

我觉得我们两部的剧都开创了某种新风格。

And I feel like both of our shows did a new kind of thing.

比如《办公室》采用了纪录片式的手持摄影风格，有点像偷拍的感觉。

Like The Office did the whole documentary style messy camera work, kind of spy shot thing.

现场观众。

Audience.

对，

Yeah,

没有观众。

no audience.

你们的剧虽然采用三机位拍摄，但并不是在观众面前现场录制的。

Your show was shot in the three camera style, but was not filmed in front of an audience.

但它有笑声背景音轨。

But it had a laugh track.

但你们也拍了一些单镜头的内容。

But also you did some single camera stuff.

这些是怎么协调运作的？

How did it all work?

是的，是我们...我和卡特一起创作的，卡特是这部剧的联合创作者。

Yeah, it was we we created some Carter and I Carter is co creator of the show with me.

我们真的不知道自己在做什么。

We really didn't know what we were doing.

这是我们最大的困惑——完全不知道该如何进行。

That that's the biggest thing we stumbled in really not knowing how to do this.

我们不像那些老练的情景喜剧老手。

We weren't like these grizzled old like sitcom hacks kind of guys.

我们之前是做深夜电视节目的。

We had come from like late night television.

我们参与过一部动画剧集和几部短命的情景喜剧。

We we worked on an animated show, a couple short lived sitcoms.

我们确实从未写过多镜头情景喜剧，所以我们写了这个自以为很棒的试播集，因为它节奏明快。

We really had never written a multi camera sitcom, So we wrote this pilot that we thought was great because it moved.

里面有很多短场景。

It was lots of short scenes.

场景切换频繁。

It popped around.

还玩了时间线把戏，我们把这个剧本交给了制片人。

It played with time, and we gave it to our producer.

结果她说：'这在真人观众面前根本没法拍'。

And she was like, this is unproducible in front of an audience from human beings.

她接着说：'你们要明白，这种拍法不可能像《老友记》那样运作'。

Like, this is like how you you we hope you understand that you cannot do this like friends.

我们还天真地问：'就不能让观众多待会儿，然后大量预录内容吗？'

We're like, can't we just keep the audience for a long time and do a lot of preshoots?

他们当时说，你们这样会让观众感觉像是被绑架了。

And they were like, you will have you it's an it will be a hostage situation.

观众不可能连续三天都待在那里。

Like, the audience wouldn't be there for three days.

他们会想方设法逃走的。

They'll be trying to escape.

你们必须换种方式来分解这个场景。

Like, it's like this you have to break this down in a different way.

而我们才华横溢的导演帕姆·弗莱曼和制片人塞萨尔·格林伯格——他们负责了整个系列的制作——确实想出了一个解决方案：用三天时间拍摄，让这部剧既像情景喜剧，某些时候又像单镜头剧。

And Pam Fryman and Cesar Greenberg, our brilliant director and producer who did the entire series, really came up with a way to, over three days, shoot the show kind of to look like a sitcom and kind of to look at times like a single count.

我们去了纽约街头取景。

We went out onto New York Street.

我们去了多个外景地拍摄。

We went on locations.

我们尝试了很多有趣的电影化叙事手法，让我们自己不再局限于'这只是在CBS播出的半小时情景喜剧'的思维——尽管它确实是。

We did lots of lots of fun sort of cinematic storytelling, and and we really let ourselves think about it as not just a half hour sitcom on CBS, which, again, we we were.

我们开播时的前导节目是《后中之王》，后续节目是《好汉两个半》。

We were our lead in was king of queens when we launched, and our lead out was two and a half men.

我们就像个古怪的异类。

And we were such a weird black sheep.

我们的收视率远不及前后的节目，意味着我们是低谷。

Our numbers were not nearly as big as the show before us and the show after us, which means you're the dip.

你就像个吊床。

You're like the hammock.

你把整个晚上的收视率都拉低了。

You're like the you're bringing the whole the whole ratings of the night down.

但我们对此一直很坦然。

But we were always good with that.

我们也是如此。

We were that as well.

是的。

Yes.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们知道的

We know

那个套路。

that move.

但我们在18-34岁年龄段表现优异，这正是CBS所看重的。

But we were great in '18 to '34 which CBS was looking for.

他们在年轻观众群体中表现不佳，而我们经过最初几年的努力，逐渐成为他们18-34岁观众群中收视第一的节目。

They were not doing great in that younger category And we eventually, over those first few years, started to become like their number one show in eighteen to thirty four.

他们意识到，虽然看这节目的人没有其他节目多，但看这个节目的年轻人比其他节目更多。

And they realized, well, not as many people are watching this as watch these other shows, but more young people are watching this than watch those other shows.

这就是我们的生存之道。

And that was our that was our survival.

嗯，我现在依然很喜欢它的拍摄手法。

Well, I love how it shot even now.

我想如果让我猜为什么它'经久不衰'，这可能是原因之一。

And I think that's one of the reasons if I were to guess why it quote unquote holds up so well.

你懂我意思吗？

You know?

是啊。

Yeah.

而且我觉得你们有点超前于时代

And I think little ahead of your time

在那个方面。

in that way.

环境音乐先驱布莱恩·伊诺有个观点，他说当旧形式无法承载更宏大的表达时，新形式就会诞生。

You the ambient music pioneer, Brian Eno, he has this thing about how new forms are created when the old form can't contain what the bigger expression is.

比如吉他失真音效最初是因为功放过载产生的，后来却成了人人追逐的声音。

So for instance, distortion in a guitar was because the amps got blown out and then it became the sound that everyone was actually chasing.

现在的情况是，人们试图模仿放大器爆裂的声音，这催生了一个全新的音乐流派，但实际上那最初是一种无法承载的失误或意外。

Now you have like, you're trying to mimic the sound of blowing out an amp and that becomes a whole new genre, but it was actually a kind of mistake or something that couldn't contain it.

所以卡特和克雷格的无知反而创造了一种新形式，因为他们当时并不知情。

So it's almost like Carter and Craig's naivete actually created a new form because they didn't know.

他们某种程度上知道

They kind of know what

自己在做什么。

they were doing.

我们当时不知道这事办不成。

We didn't know we couldn't do do it.

是啊。

Yeah.

看完你们的节目后，我发现其他作品里也有类似手法，特别是当某个角色说完话后，镜头会切到另一个时空展示对方的反应。

And I feel like I saw it in other things too after watching your show, especially, like, when you would have a character say something and then it would cut to a different time to the other person reacting.

懂我意思吗？

You know?

比如，你会先让泰德说点什么，然后镜头切换到罗宾对莉莉的反应之类的。

Like, you would sort of set up, like Ted would say something, and then it would cut to Robin's reaction to Lily or things like that.

节奏轻快又有趣。

And it zipped along so fun.

我觉得在电影里见过这种手法，但第一次真正注意到是在看你们的节目时。

And I feel like I've seen that in movies, but I feel like the first time I saw it really was watching your show.

大多数多机位剧集不会那样移动镜头。

And most multi cameras don't move that way.

我很喜欢《办公室》那种镜头运动方式。

I love that The Office moves that way.

我觉得应该说一下，我是《办公室》的超级粉丝。

I feel like we should say, like, I'm I'm a huge fan of The Office.

我看过《办公室》的每一集。

I watched every single episode of The Office.

我一集不落地追完了。

I watch a door to door.

我真的是超级粉丝。

I'm such a huge fan.

我想问你们所有人这个问题。

I wanted to ask all of you this question.

也包括你，乔什，因为我不知道这个。

You too, Josh, because I don't know this.

你的答案是什么。

The answer for you.

你们在拍《办公室》的时候，能一边拍一边看其他剧吗？

Were you guys able to while you were on TV while you were on the office?

你们拍完《办公室》后，

You come, you're shooting the office.

回到家，

You come home.

会看其他情景喜剧吗？

Do you watch other sitcoms?

詹娜，我感到很荣幸，我们当时确实如此。

And I'm honored, Jenna, that we were.

我想你当时在看《老爸老妈的浪漫史》，直到现在我才知道这件事。

You were watching How I Met Your Mother, I guess, which I never really knew that you were at that time until now.

我整天拍完《老爸老妈》回家后，唯一会看的喜剧就是《办公室》。

I would come home from working on how much mother all day and the only show the only comedy I would watch is The Office.

我太爱《办公室》了，我和妻子每一集都看。

It's the I love The Office and my wife and I watch every episode.

我无法观看其他喜剧，因为我的大脑会开始比较它们。

I could not watch any other comedies because my brain would start to compare to them.

它们比我们更火，或者我们比它们更好。

They're a bigger hit than us or how we're better than that.

我觉得我们这方面做得比那个好，但那方面我们不如他们。

I think we do this thing better than that one, but this thing we don't do as well.

所以我的大脑无法单纯享受观看喜剧的乐趣。

So my brain, I was not able to just enjoy watching comedies.

我会看一些黑暗时段的剧集和奇怪的电影。

I would watch, like, dark hour dramas and, like, weird movies.

除了《办公室》这部我实时追看并深爱的喜剧外，我无法观看其他喜剧。

I could not, like, watch another comedy except The Office I loved and I watched in real time at the moment.

但对你们来说呢？

But what what is that for you guys?

你们在参演情景喜剧时，还能享受观看其他情景喜剧的乐趣吗？

Did you guys were you guys able to like enjoy sitcoms while you were in one?

是的，我在看。

Yeah, I was.

你在看吗？

You were?

我是说，是的，我看了《废柴联盟》。

I mean, yeah, I watched Community.

我看了《威尔与格蕾丝》。

I watched Will and Grace.

我看了《我为喜剧狂》，超爱这部剧，还有《发展受阻》。

I watched 30 Rock, loved 30 Rock, Arrested Development.

是的，我热爱喜剧。

Yeah, I love comedy.

所以我很高兴回家后能看到更多人在表演精彩的喜剧。

So I was happy to come home and watch more people doing great comedy.

那很棒啊。

That's great.

我不知道自己怎么回事，就是看不进去。

I don't know what's wrong with me that I couldn't do it.

嗯，因为你是创作者。

Well, you're a creator.

你是在用

You're looking at

一种

it from a

创作者的视角。

creator's point of view.

我是不是...我不知道为什么会这样，我现在回想起来就觉得，我当时在干什么？

Was I was I don't know why this is so I I I look back now and I'm like, what was I doing?

晚上我还在做即兴剧场表演。

I was still doing improv theater in the evenings.

我会有一场演出。

I would have a show.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我是说，我当时就像，我在干嘛？

I mean, I was like, what am I doing?

我记得那些早期季。

I remember those early seasons.

我会很累，因为我们结束后，我还要赶9点的演出。

I'd be so tired because we'd get done, and then I'd like, I got a 09:00 show.

我最好现在去看你的喜剧表演。

I better go to your comedy now.

我们拍《办公室》就是为了支持你的即兴表演爱好。

We're doing The Office to support your improv habit.

是的。

Yes.

不过确实。

But yeah.

而且我偶尔也会看看其他节目。

And then I would watch shows here and there too.

但我并不害怕看这些节目。

But, I I I wasn't afraid to watch them, though.

我确实很享受这个过程。

I was enjoying it for sure.

我感觉自己是这个创意社区的一员，我们会一起看《废柴联盟》这样的剧集。

I felt like I was part of this creative community, and we would you know, I'd watch an episode of community, like the show community.

《废柴联盟》这部剧

The show community.

然后

And then

我们还得去参加NBC的某个前期宣传活动，和他们同台演出

we would have to go and be stage with them at some NBC upfront thing.

我就会想，看看我们

And I'd be like, look at us.

就像以前在剧院时，和不同剧组的演员一起在后台的感觉

It's like back in theater days when you're backstage with the different shows.

刚开始时感觉规模小很多，可能是因为那时还没有流媒体，也可能因为我们就在这个小片场

And and it felt it felt smaller to me in the beginning because maybe because there wasn't streaming, maybe because we were on this tiny, lot.

我们甚至都不在大制片厂的片场，你知道吗？

We weren't even on a major studio lot, you know?

乔希，我

Josh, I

我有个随机的想法要快速说一下。

have a random tangent quickly.

对。

Yeah.

我们是怎么认识的？

How did we meet?

我们是在某个活动上认识的吗？

Did we meet at one of those, like events?

这是我的记忆。

Here's my memory.

我记得是有天受邀去你家读你的剧本。

My memory is that one day I was invited to do a reading of your screenplay at your place.

没错。

Right.

然后我就去了。

And I went.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我就读了。

And I did it.

而且读得非常好。

And it was so good.

哦，我的记忆里那就是我们初次见面的地方。

Oh, And I my memory is that that is where I met you.

我不知道是不是经纪人安排的还是怎样。

And I don't know if like an agent set that up or something.

但那是个非常美妙的夜晚。

But it was the most wonderful evening.

哦，谢谢。

Oh, thank you.

和其他演员一起朗读你那精彩的剧本。

Reading with other actors, your great screenplay.

而且，你当时人真好。

And, you were so nice.

我记得你还为我们弹了吉他。

I feel like you played guitar for us.

不，那时候我还没开始弹吉他。

No, didn't play guitar back then.

那是...那是...

That's a that's a

一段被植入的记忆。

an inserted memory.

当时有音乐在播放吗？

Was music playing music?

很可能有，我当时...而且你家很漂亮。

Probably, I was And you had a beautiful place.

这点我记得很清楚。

I remember that.

我当时就觉得，这太有格调了。

I was like, this is so stylish.

我们是在那里认识的吗？

Is that where we met?

我的记忆里确实记得你在那次朗诵会上的表现，但我想我们是在某个活动上先认识的。因为有过这层接触，我觉得相处起来比较自在。

My memory is I do remember you doing that reading, but I think I had met you at like an event and because I had met you at the event, I think I felt comfortable.

嗯，可能不是特别放松那种，但至少自在地能主动联系你——虽然记不清具体是怎么找到你的了。

Well, probably not super comfortable, but comfortable enough to either track you down or I can't remember how I got ahold of you.

我也是。

Same.

但最后你确实来到我家客厅，读了我的剧本。

But you did end up in my living room reading my screenplay.

没错。

Yes.

后来你还真的把它拍出来了。

Which you then went on to make.

是的。

Yeah.

很高兴能多拿些，请便。

Was happy take more, please.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yes.

嗯。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

之后好几年里，我想我们总在各种前夜派对上碰面，比如艾美奖这类活动，我们那段时间刚好都在同一个社交圈。

I then for years, I think we would just see each other at like the night before party, like that kind of thing, like the Emmys and the we were just on the circuit at the same time.

没错。

Yes.

那时候参加那些活动还挺有意思的。

Back when those things were interesting to go to.

巡回演出伙伴。

Circuit buddies.

是啊，巡回演出多美好。

Yeah, circuit So sweet.

是的。

Yes.

但我觉得...我是说，之前在纽约就认识敏迪一点，剧院时期就认识了。

But I felt like the whole I mean, knew Mindy a little bit before from New York, like theater days.

我也认识雷恩，因为我去了纽约大学的研究生表演项目，我在那里时他正在当导演。

And I knew Rain because I went to NYU to the grad acting program and when I was there, he was directing.

你们看过他导演的那部新博齐纳小丑秀吗？

Did you guys ever see the new Bozina, that clown show he directed?

没看过，但真希望我看过。

No, but I wish I had.

简直是天才之作，太不可思议了。

It was genius, like so incredible.

而且是他执导的。

And he directed that.

所以我在NYU时他总在那里。

So he was always at NYU when I was there.

所以我认识他。

So I knew him.

但我总觉得和你们的节目有种联系，一方面我们同期播出，都经历了那种人生转折的奇怪眩晕感。

But I always felt connected to your guys show because one, we were on the air at the same time and going through some of the strange, like life altering weird vertigo that anyone goes through.

另一方面我觉得你们有戏剧根基。

Also I felt like you guys had like theater roots.

你们节目里有很多戏剧演员，甚至我看观众调查时都觉得，那些老式桥段——比如Michael和The之间的假电话

Like there were a lot of like theater actors in your show, you know, there was a, and even when I was watching a customer survey, like I was like, this is like such like old timey, like the the fake call between Michael and The

是说'舔屁股先生'那段吗？

Buttlicker scene?

舔屁股的人

Buttlicker.

威廉·舔屁股

William Buttlicker.

是啊

Yeah.

太棒了

It's so good.

那简直就像是莎士比亚剧中的小丑，或者即兴喜剧演员的表演

That is like, that might as well be like Shakespearean clowns or like a comedian del arte.

就像，这太经典了

Like, it's such like classic.

然后他们开始非常认真地对待这件事

And then they start taking it very serious.

赌注变得极高，但实际上毫无风险——

The stakes get really high and there's literally zero stakes like-

一百万。

A million.

是的。

Yes.

就像老式的三傻闹剧，莎士比亚式的小丑。

Like so old timey, three stooge, like Shakespeare clown.

就像这样，我们也会这样做，我们节目里巴尼·泰德的一些桥段也会有这种风格。

Like just in, and we do that, like some of the Barney Tedd stuff could get like that, you know, in our show.

我一直很喜欢那种感觉——仿佛自己与十六世纪左右的演员们产生了共鸣，就像这是一门古老的艺术，你懂吗？

And I always love that feeling that you're connected to like actors from the like sixteenth century or something like, like this is an ancient art, you know?

我一直很享受那种感觉。

I always love that feeling.

对。

Yes.

我们就是这样认识的。

That's how we met.

我们就是这样认识的。

That's how we met.

不过我觉得特别有趣的是，你提到巴尼和泰德在那个场景里有点像吉姆和德怀特。

It's so funny to me, though, that you mentioned that Barney and Ted could be sort of like Jim and Dwight in that scene.

是啊。

Yeah.

因为不知道你有没有在网上看过，有整篇文章分析《办公室》角色和《老爸老妈的浪漫史》角色的对应关系。

Because I don't know if you've seen this online, but there are there's a whole article that says the office characters in their how I met your mother counterpart.

天啊。

God.

哇。

Wow.

太神奇了。

That's amazing.

而且他们确实说巴尼对应德怀特，泰德对应吉姆。

And and they do say Barney is Dwight and that that Ted is Jim.

是啊。

Yeah.

你知道的，那太有趣了。

You know, it was so funny.

我看那一集的时候，你和约翰对着镜头的那种表情，就像是泰德会对着镜头露出的表情，如果镜头在那里的话。

I when I was watching the episode, the looks, Jenna, that you and John get to give to the camera were like looks that Ted would have given to the camera were the camera there.

你懂我意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

是的。

Yes.

泰德是被允许的。

Ted was allowed.

没错。

Yeah.

泰德被允许使用那种惯例。

Ted was allowed that convention.

他会像吉姆和帕姆那样一直看着镜头。

He would constantly be looking at the camera like Jim and Pam.

你知道吗？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

他只是感觉镜头不存在一样。

He just it feels like the camera wasn't there.

虽然我们有个理论，我们正在研究巴尼是唯一知道自己身处情景喜剧的角色。

Although we have this theory, we're working on a theory that Barney was the only character who knew he was in a sitcom.

是啊。

Yeah.

因为尼尔有时走进房间的样子，就像在期待入场掌声一样。

Because the way Neil walks into a room sometimes it's like he's expecting entrance applause.

没错。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It's true.

嗯，巴尼和德怀特之所以如此相似，是因为他们都深深沉浸在自己妄想构建的叙事中。

Well, it's Barney and Dwight are so similar because they are so deeply living in their own delusional narrative.

他们创造并精心维护着自己的世界，完全生活其中，只是偶尔与他人产生交集。

They they have created and curated their own world that they're just utterly inhabiting and, like, they intersect with other people.

但在这个完全不同的世界里，他们才是主角。

But they're the main character in this whole other world.

但那并非真实世界。

But it's not the real world.

正因如此，这些角色写起来才特别有趣，尼尔和雷恩的表演之所以精彩绝伦，就是因为他们百分百地投入到了这些角色的现实中。

And it's that's why they're such fun characters to write and why the Neil and Rain were so amazing because they just committed so a billion percent to those characters realities.

他们就像是活在和别人不同的电影里。

They're just in a different movie than everybody else.

他们有自己的道德准则和规则要遵守。

And they have their own code of ethics and rules that they honor.

比如，他们就是按照这些准则生活的。

Like, they live by them.

没错。

Yes.

这是网上对他们的评价。

This is what the Internet says about them.

你准备好了吗？

Are you ready?

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

上面写着这个。

It says this.

这两个角色都以他们夸张的个性和严格遵守各自精心制定的规则手册为特征

Both characters are defined by their over the top personalities, rigid adherence to their own elaborate rule books

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

以及对权力和成功的追求，尽管道德准则截然不同。

And pursuit of power and success, though with vastly different moral codes.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

令人毛骨悚然的是，很多人认为这两部剧之间有太多相似之处，因为我们节目中就有一对非常可爱、甜蜜的情侣，他们在一起时依然很有趣。

That's it's eerie how many think there's so many similarities between these two shows, because like we had a couple on the show that was a really lovely, cute couple that was still funny when they were together as a couple.

他们不需要一直争吵。

They didn't need to be fighting all the time.

他们作为情侣就很有笑点。

They were funny as a couple.

你喜欢看他们。

You enjoyed watching them.

他们不需要每周都有问题。

They didn't need a problem every week.

他们不需要每周都吵架。

They didn't need an argument every week.

事实上，当这两个角色之间出现矛盾时粉丝会很难过——我知道说的是吉姆和帕姆。

In fact, fans would get upset when there would be trouble between these two characters, which I know Jim and Pam.

就像人们不愿看到吉姆和帕姆、马歇尔和莉莉（我们剧中的杰森和艾莉森）之间出现太多问题。

It was like people did not want to see too much go wrong between Jim and Pam and Marshall and Lily on our show, Jason and Allison.

他们是深受喜爱的情侣。

Like they were a beloved couple.

就像当我们都沉浸其中时，我真的觉得我们像是同时上了电视大学，因为我们对你的剧有种深深的共鸣——它几乎是我唯一能看进去的情景喜剧。

Like when we were all in, I really do feel like we all went to TV college at the same time because we were like and I felt a very deep connection to your show because it really was almost the only sitcom I could watch.

我也不知道为什么。

I don't know why.

再说一次，我到底怎么了？

Again, what's wrong with me?

稍后要把这事告诉我的治疗师，她肯定会震惊。

Shocking my therapist about this later.

但你们知道吗，我对吉姆和帕姆有如此强烈的共鸣，因为剧中的马歇尔和莉莉就是以我和我妻子为原型的——我们大学时相识。

But you guys like I felt such a connection to Jim and Pam because Marshall and Lily on the show are based on my wife and I like we went to college.

我们相遇了。

We met.

那时我18岁。

I was 18.

她大概16岁，因为她在高中跳了一级。

She was like 16 because she had skipped a year in high school.

我们曾经

We had and

一半真的很重要。

a half is really important.

我知道。

I know.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It is.

我们那时还是孩子，但到了二十五六岁就已经像老夫老妻了。

We we were babies and we became like we were the old married couple by our mid twenties.

和那些单身人士相比，我们简直像爷爷奶奶辈。

We were like grandparents compared to all these single people out there.

所以马歇尔和莉莉这两个角色特别触动我心。

And so Marshall and Lily are like so close to my heart.

我觉得自己能看《办公室》并如此喜爱的原因之一，就是太喜欢吉姆和帕姆这对。

So I think part of the reason I could watch The Office and just love it was I loved Jim and Pam so much.

他们的情感连接让我特别有共鸣。

It was such a like I loved their connection so much.

要写好一对相处融洽的快乐情侣还能保持喜剧效果真的很难。

And it's really hard to write a happy couple that gets along and make it funny.

我觉得你们真的、真的做到了这一点。

I think you guys really, really did that.

然后还有德怀特某种程度上就像巴尼这个设定。

And then there's this whole thing where Dwight is kind of Barney.

吉姆和泰德有很多重叠之处。

There's a lot of Jim and Ted overlaps.

真的，看这集《办公室》时让我很震撼。

Like, it really it's it's struck me watching this episode of The Office.

有多少相似之处，以及那种从玩笑开始的基调何其相似。

How many similarities and similarities in tone to where things start off as little jokes.

然后到剧集结尾时，会有个隐蔽的转折——某个埋下的小伏笔会发展成戏剧性的大反转。

And then by the end of the episode, there's the stealthy switcheroo where there's like a great dramatic twist that comes out of some little seed that's been planted.

那些蓝牙耳机的小桥段是个有趣的噱头，贯穿始终的搞笑元素。

The little Bluetooth earpieces are a fun little bit and a fun running gimmick.

最后，他们营造出这个巨大的戏剧性时刻。

And at the end, they create this huge dramatic moment.

太对了。

That is so true.

我超爱这点。

I love that.

乔什，我有个问题。

So I have a question, Josh.

如果你在片场时对某句台词有想法，比如能直接跟现场编剧或克雷格他们说'我能试试这个备选版本吗'？

If you were in the scene and you had an idea for a line, like, were you able to just say to the writer on set or Craig or someone, hey, can I try this alt?

或者如果我换个角度演绎呢？

Or what if I spin it this way?

你们有过这种创作上的配合吗？

Was that did you have that sort of collaboration?

有的。

Yes.