OBG 583：最凶残的谋杀

这很酷。

That's cool.

后来我反思这件事时想到，这种角色扮演活动我妈妈也可以参与。

And as I was reflecting on that afterwards, was thinking, this is the sort of thing I could get my mom doing, this kind of role playing.

因为游戏规则是基于一辆战车赛跑，使用的是RB凯撒桌游。

Because there were no the rules were there was a chariot race that uses the RB Caesar board game.

没有那种掷骰子之类的硬核规则。

There were no geeky rules in rolling dice or anything like that.

大部分都是用剪刀、石头、布来决定的，我记得是这样。

It was all done either with it was mostly done with scissors, paper, stone, as I recall.

抱歉，是石头、剪刀、布。

Sorry, rock, paper, scissors.

我想，如果把这个游戏从那种硬核的格洛兰萨设定中剥离出来，我妈妈或者其他人都能玩。

And I thought, if you just took it out of the geeky Glorantha setting, it's something that my mother could play or other people could play.

于是我开始思考这一点。

So I then thought about that.

我写了《冈比亚之死》，这是我们第一个游戏，设定在二战前夕的一艘非洲河轮上，涉及德国间谍、英国间谍以及其他各种情节。

And I wrote Death in The Gambia, which was our first game, which is a game set on a riverboat in Africa just before the Second World War with German spies and British spies and other things going on.

我试着和几个朋友玩了一下，效果非常好。

And it, tried it with a few friends, and it went really well.

我把它整理出来，试图吸引一些人和出版商的兴趣，但没什么进展。

I wrote it up, tried to interest some people in it, some publishers in it, and it sort of didn't go anywhere.

然后我想，天啊，我得自己开家公司来出版这个游戏。

And then I thought, Blimey, I'm going have to start my own company to publish this.

这便是Freeform Games的开端。

And that was the start of Freeform Games.

所以我们把目标定在谋杀谜题上，因为当时已经存在谋杀谜题的市场。

So we aimed them at murder mysteries because there was already a market for murder mysteries.

我们的产品比当时市面上能买到的标准盒装版要好得多。

Ours were better than the standard box sets you could buy at the time.

幸运的是，我们有很多回头客，他们似乎也持同样的看法。

Happily, we get an awful lot of return customers who also seem to think the same thing.

我们就一直坚持了下来。

And we just kept on going.

所以我们是2001年开始的。

So that was 2001 we started.

而我们现在就在这里。

And and here we are.

那就是我们。

That is We

我们现在有40款游戏了，或者说是40多款游戏了。

have 40 games now, think, or 40 plus games now.

是的。

Yes.

而且种类非常丰富。

And there are a very wide variety.

超级英雄这款也是我拥有的其中一款。

The Superhero one is another one that I have.

我一时想不起它的名字了。

I can't remember the title of it off top of my head.

但是

But

英雄之死。

Heroic death.

对，就是这个。

That's it.

而且，这个是下一个。

And, that's next in line.

哦，太好了。

Oh, good.

很好。

Good.

很好。

Good.

至于玩什么，我觉得那会非常有趣。

For what to play because I think that would be a lot of fun.

你知道，我们想先来一场经典的阿加莎·克里斯蒂式谋杀案。

You know, we wanna do the nice traditional Agatha Christie type murder first.

然后

And then

这是一个非常好的入门选择，《我要杀人》。

It's a really good starting one, I Will to Murder.

这是一个很好的、扎实的开局选择。

It's a good it's a good solid one to get going with.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我特别欣赏这个游戏的几点，比如，正如我提到的，凶手知道自己就是凶手。

So some of the things that I really appreciated about the the games were the idea that, obviously, as I mentioned, that the murderer knows they're the murderer.

所以对他们来说，重点不是去破解一切。

So for them, it's not about figuring out everything.

这突然变成了一种社交推理，但不是社交推理游戏，本质上是一个隐藏叛徒游戏

It's suddenly a social deduction not a social deduction game, but a hidden traitor game essentially

是的

Yeah.

在他们自己的那份资料上。

On their on their piece.

而且，这挺搞笑的，因为大家都在读自己的内容，而我是律师，所以我在主持整个游戏。

And, it was kind of funny because everyone's reading their stuff, and I was the the lawyer, so I was running it.

于是我选中的那个凶手，他走到一边，问我：‘我得告诉别人吗？’

And so the guy that I had chosen to be the murderer, he kinda comes off to the side, and he's like, you know, do I have to tell people this?

我回答：‘绝对不用。’

And I was like, absolutely not.

你的目标就是想办法摆脱嫌疑。

The whole you know, you're you're trying to trying to get away from this.

好吧。

It's like, okay.

我只是确认一下。

I was just making sure.

我就说，好吧。

I was like, okay.

这是个好观点，因为在那些游戏中，我记得他们说你不能对纸上的信息撒谎。

That's a good point because in those games, I remember you they would say you can't lie about the information on your sheet.

对。

Right.

除了不是凶手之外，这一点也说不通。

Along with not being the murderer, that also didn't make any sense.

所以我们允许人们撒谎，你知道，凶手。

So we let people lie and you know the murderer.

不过对此也有相反的观点。

Now there is a counter argument to that.

我知道我读过一些作家指南，是关于为另一个派对、另一个出版社设计谋杀谜题的。

And I know that some I've been reading some sorry, some writer's guidelines on a different how to structure a murder mystery for a different party, a different publisher.

他建议不要告诉嫌疑人他们是凶手。

And he structures, he says, Don't tell the suspects that they're the murderer.

原因是他早期尝试时，那些撒谎的人无法像其他人那样 convincingly 地撒谎。

And the reason was because when he was trying it early on, the people who were lying couldn't lie convincingly enough compared to everyone else.

他们看起来就像在撒谎。

They looked like they were lying.

我思考了这与我们游戏的运作方式有何关联。

And I thought about how that was working with our games.

我认为关键是，每个人都有某种私心或秘密，而凶手只是其中一个带着自己罪恶感的人，和别人一样，只不过他们的罪恶感不同。

I think the thing is because everyone's got ulterior motives of some sort or a secret of some sort, the murderer is just someone who has their own guilt, along with everyone else, who has a different set of guilt.

在我们的游戏中，谋杀案当然不一定是核心。

And certainly in our games, the murder isn't necessarily the main thing.

有些人甚至根本不在乎谋杀案。

Some people, they won't even care about the murder.

那确实是我原本打算提出来的一点。

That that was certainly a point I was gonna bring out.

每个人都有需要隐藏的东西。

Everybody has something to hide or some things to hide.

对。

And Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我们在玩的那个游戏里特别有趣。

It was so funny in the game that we played.

有一些婚外情正在发生，其中一个玩家开始发现了这些婚外情。

There were some affairs that had been going on, and one of the players started discovering of the affairs.

这让他感到惊讶和震惊，以至于他突然觉得谁都不值得信任。

And it surprised and horrified him a little bit to the point where suddenly he felt like he could trust nobody.

我当时就想，这正是，这正是关键所在。

And I was like, well, that's exactly you know, that's exactly the point.

对吧？

Right?

每个人都有些东西需要隐藏。

Everyone's got something to hide.

而这正是我非常欣赏的一点，因为表面上看，就像是六到八个侦探对一个凶手。

And, that is one of the things that I really appreciated because, on the surface, when you sort of point it out, it's like six or eight detectives versus one murderer.

但当你真正意识到这一点时——我觉得玩很多社交推理游戏有助于你理解这一点，你可以开始转移别人正在追问的线索，或者更常见的是，人们只是忘了，转而被其他一些吸引人的事情分散了注意力。

But when you start to really realize it and and I think playing a lot of social deduction games helps you kinda realize this where you can kinda start either distracting people from the line of questioning they're on or more than likely, people just get they forget, and they start getting focused on some other shiny object

是的。

Yep.

并试图沿着这条路径继续下去。

And try to move down that path as well.

所以，你有没有发现，除了确保每个人都有需要隐藏的东西之外，还有其他哪些方面对保证游戏顺畅进行至关重要？

So have you found, obviously, making sure everyone has stuff to hide, but have you found, other sort of aspects about that to be, to be in in important to make sure that the game flows, smoothly?

所以，当我或我们设计游戏时，我常用的一个工具是一个矩阵，用来梳理不同剧情的安排。

So when I'm putting the games together or when we're putting the games together, a tool I use tends to be a matrix where you're trying to sort of work out because the games have various different plots.

然后为每个剧情分配它对特定角色的重要性。

And then you assign for each plot how critical that plot is for a particular character.

然后你尽量确保所有角色的戏份大致平衡，避免有人无事可做，也避免有人承担过多的剧情内容。

And then you just try and make sure all the characters are roughly balanced so that there isn't someone who hasn't got anything to do and there isn't someone with absolutely masses to do, masses of plot.

所以我们力求让每个人差不多都忙起来，这样每个人都能玩得开心。

And so if you can keep everyone more or less equally busy is what we're trying to aim for so that everyone's having a good time.

所以所有角色都拥有秘密和线索。

Use the So all the characters have secrets and clues.

秘密是你自己不想分享的关于自己的事情。

A secret is something about yourself that you don't really want to share.

而线索则可能是误导项，但它与某个剧情有关，可能是谋杀案的线索。

And a clue is just something that it might be a red herring, but it's a clue about one of the plots, possibly the murder.

然后我们使用一些能力，迫使你对其他角色或玩家采取行动。

And then we use abilities that that force you play on other characters, other players.

他们因此必须揭示信息，可能需要透露一个秘密、一条线索或其他内容。

And they then have to reveal they may have to reveal a secret or a clue or something else.

我们这样做是因为发现有些玩家喜欢保留信息，不愿意分享。

And we do that because we found that some players can want to hold onto information and won't want to share.

实际上，信息的传播和人们的讨论非常重要。

And actually it's quite important for the information to get around and for people to be talking about it.

所以我们使用这些能力来强制推动游戏中的信息共享。

So we use the abilities to force that information sharing around the game.

如果你玩过很多次这类游戏，玩过几次之后，你就会在不使用能力的情况下主动分享信息。

If you've played these things a lot, once you've played them a few times, you'll share the information without using the abilities.

这些能力几乎不再需要了。

The abilities are barely needed.

但对于新玩家来说，我们发现它们非常有帮助。

But certainly for new players, we find that quite helpful.

是的。

Yeah.

这实际上引出了两个有趣的观点。

That actually brings up two interesting points.

首先，我喜欢每个人都有不同类型的能力，而且一些能力非常有创意，比如下毒、秘密橱柜之类的。

First of all, I love that everyone has different types of abilities, and and some of the abilities are are pretty creative, like the poisoning and and secret cabinets and things like that.

但另一点有趣的是，你知道自己的能力，却完全不知道别人的能力是什么。

But the other thing is fun is that you know what your abilities are, but you have no idea what other people's abilities are.

所以最精彩的部分是——这种情况发生了两次——有人对一个能无效化自己能力的人使用了能力。

And so the best part is, and this happened twice, was somebody was using the ability on someone who had the ability to nullify their ability.

每次我都想，哦，我要得手了。

So every time I like, oh, I'm gonna get something.

结果却感到头晕，直接晕倒，什么也没得到。

Like, oh, I feel faint and just passes out and doesn't get anything.

然后他们说：‘你还能这么做？’

And they're like, you can do that?

所以这种发现和惊喜，我觉得真的非常有趣。

And so the discovery and surprise and stuff like that, I think, is really a lot of fun.

那些经常玩这个游戏的群体，会开始玩一些元游戏，比如‘我绝不接受你给的任何食物或饮料，以防被下毒。’

There's some the the the groups that play the games quite a lot start to metagame a bit and go, I I'm not accepting any food or drink from you just in case it's poisoned.

是的。

Yeah.

我想象这种情况确实会发生，尤其是在这些游戏中并非随机的。

I I imagine that can happen, especially if, it's not random in these games.

主持人实际上会选定凶手，但你会逐渐被贴上凶手的标签。

The the the host will pick the murderer, essentially, but, you start to get the reputation as being the murderer.

所以我不会信任你，因为上一局游戏里你就是凶手之类的情况。

So I'm not gonna trust you because the last game you were in, you know, you were the murderer kind of thing as well.

这种现象在社交推理游戏中也很常见。

That happens a lot in social deduction as well.

哦，Eric总是扮演赛隆人，或者类似的角色。

Oh, Eric's always the Cylon or, you know, whatnot.

但另一件让我享受的事是，一开始，这只是稍微有点——你是递给他们一本小册子让他们阅读。

But the other thing that I enjoyed, you know, at first, it's mildly I mean, you're handing them a little booklet to read.

内容不多，但有一些。

There's not a lot, but there's a bit.

但还有一些提示，比如，最初你想要尝试弄清楚些什么。

But there's also some suggestions of, oh, here's here's initially what you wanna try and figure out.

我认为这有助于打破僵局，因为大家都坐在那里想：好吧，现在我知道这些了。

And I think that's great in sort of getting the ice broken because everyone's sitting there like, Okay, now I know all this.

我该做什么？

What do I do?

做什么

What do

我该做什么？

I do?

是的。

Yeah.

接下来我该做什么？

What do I do next?

对。

Yeah.

而这通常就是跟某人聊点什么。

And that's usually just talk to someone about something.

对。

Right.

就是这样。

That's all it is.

一旦人们开始这么做，之后就自然流畅了。

And it's just once people start doing that, it just flows after that.

一旦你让他们离开座位，去跟别人打招呼，说：‘嗨，我是侦探某某。’

Once you get them out of their chairs and go out to talk to someone and say, Hi, I'm Detective so and so.

你昨晚在哪里？

Where were you last night?

然后事情就开始发生了。

Then things things start happening.

当然。

Definitely.

而且我认为，在这种游戏中，这一点至关重要，尤其是因为它具有更广泛的吸引力。

And I and I think and that's I think that's critical in in a game like this is that especially because it has such a broader appeal.

正如你所说，那些从来不会坐下来掷骰子或玩桌游的人，你也可以邀请任何人来参与这个游戏。

Like you said, people who would never sit down and roll a die or play on a board are you can invite anybody and do this.

是的。

So Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

而其他一批谋杀之谜游戏中，愿意玩谋杀之谜游戏的人比玩桌面角色扮演游戏的人要多得多，甚至更多。

And the other bunch of murder mystery games is there are more people who will play a murder mystery game than a tabletop role playing game or indeed

啊，而且

a And

他们通常也有更多的钱。

they probably have they usually have more money as well.

桌游玩家的经济状况普遍比较拮据。

Games are are quite notably impoverished.

因为他们是在购买游戏。

Because they're buying games.

但是是的。

But yeah.

尤其是能够直接下载PDF并打印出来就能直接使用。

And and especially the ability just to download the PDFs and and print them off and and run with it.

我的意思是，你甚至可以临时决定玩。

I mean, you could do it last minute.

是的。

Yeah.

这会有点棘手，但如果你真的需要，还是可以临时准备的。

It'd be a little bit of a tricky, but you could do it last minute if even if you needed to.

我算过，如果你真的需要，花几个小时就能搞定，只要把所有东西打印出来，不用管角色分配、服装或装饰之类的。

I worked out you can do it in a couple of hours if you absolutely needed to, if you can just sort of print everything out and not worry about casting or costuming or decorating or whatever.

我觉得，从购买到开始玩，大概两个小时内就能完成。

Could go from purchase to playing in about two hours, I reckon.

因为需要打印的内容还挺多的。

Because there is a reasonable amount to print out.

每个角色都有一个八页的角色手册，可以折叠成所谓的A4纸大小，或者你叫它半张信纸；此外还有一张背景资料页和能力卡。

Every character has Yes, it's an eight page character booklet which you can fold into, or I'd call it A four, whatever you call it, half a letter Plus there's a background sheet, plus there's ability cards.

可能会有金钱。

There might be money.

可能会有其他发放材料之类的。

There might be other handouts and what have you.

所以需要打印的东西还挺多的。

So there is a bit to print out.

主持人需要做不少准备工作。

Is a bit of work to be done by the host.

我觉得这不一定是坏事，但它确实让游戏很难说玩就玩。

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but it does make it hard to just play it on a moment's notice.

确实如此，但我认为这给游戏带来了更深的层次感。

It does, but I think it gives it gives much more much more depth to the game.

你知道的？

You know?

我之前提到的那种，就是直接扔给他们一本书，然后你读一读里面的内容。

The the or the ones that I mentioned where you just toss them a book and you sort of read read something.

我记得我们第一次玩的时候。

I I remember the very first time we did one.

那大概是1988年左右。

This was, like, 1988 or something.

这几乎就像是如何主持一场谋杀谜案游戏。

It's almost how to host a murder stuff.

我们坐在那里，有人指控我朝别人扔了蜡烛台之类的东西，用蜡烛台打他们。

And we're sitting there, and somebody accused me of throwing, like, a candlestick at somebody or something like that, hitting them with a candlestick.

但我的书里根本没写过这件事。

And I had nothing in my book that said that.

书里写的是我朝别人扔过一块漂流木。

It did have something that said I had hit thrown a piece of driftwood at someone.

所以我和那个朋友就在那儿大吵大闹，他说我用蜡烛台打了他。

So the buddy and I are just yelling at each other because he says I hit him with a candlestick.

我说那只是漂木。

I say it was just driftwood.

对吧？

Right?

而且我们俩当时都不懂。

And neither of us knew any better.

说实话，那整个活动是一场跨年派对。

And to be honest with you, the whole thing, it was a New Year's Eve party.

从那一刻起，整个事情就乱套了，大家大喊大叫，一群18岁的孩子到处乱跑。

The whole thing just of fell apart at that point with yelling and shouting and a bunch of 18 year olds running around.

所以我们最终也没能解开这个谋杀谜题。

So, we never did solve that particular murder mystery.

后来我们又办了几场，情况稍微好了一点。

We did later ones, and they went a little bit better.

但正如我提到的，我真的很喜欢这种理念：一开始就掌握所有信息，而不必在特定时刻被迫脱口而出。

But still, as I mentioned, I really love the idea of having all the knowledge that you would have at the beginning and not having that pressure of having to to blurt it out at certain points in time.

你知道的吧？

You know?

让自然的问题和对话慢慢带出信息，我觉得这样更好。

Just kind of letting natural question and conversation sort of bring it out, I think, helps.

哦，你先说。

And oh, go ahead.

所以，是的。

So, yeah.

不过，这样做的一个后果是，我们需要确保这些信息在恰当的时机被引入游戏中。

So the one of the consequence of that, though, is that we need to make sure that information then gets released into the game at the right time.

因此，这些信息通常是按时间分发的，或通过特定事件呈现。

So they tend to be timed handouts or events.

法医报告会在某个时刻出现，新的线索也会随着夜晚的推移逐步引入。

Coroner's reports will turn up at a certain point and new clues get introduced as the evening goes on.

否则，这些信息很可能根本不会出现。

Otherwise, there's a standard chance that they just never appear.

即使我们引入并宣布了这些信息，合适的人也可能没有听到。

And even we introduce them and announce them, the right person might not quite get to hear them.

但每个游戏都有其独特之处。

But there's a point where every game is different.

每次游戏都会有所不同。

Every run will be different.

可以通过时机控制来尽量减少这种差异。

Can try and minimize that by timing.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

好。

Yeah.

明白。

Yeah.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我太兴奋了。

I'm so excited.

有一件挺有趣的事，就是在我们上一次的游戏中，有人不经意地提到了某个人的职业，结果大家的注意力瞬间全都集中到了他们身上，因为大家觉得他们明显有足够的力量实施这起谋杀，这最终成了结论。

The, one of the things that was kind of funny was an almost offhanded comment about somebody in our last one, what their what their occupation was suddenly pointed all of the energy, for the murder towards them, because they were clearly strong enough to have performed this murder was was sort of the end result of that.

是的。

Yes.

最终，那个人被逮捕了，尽管他根本不是真正的凶手。

And ultimately, got that person, quote, unquote, arrested even though they weren't the actual murderer.

所以在我们玩的这一次里，真正的凶手逃掉了。

So the murderer got away with it, in in the one that we did.

我只是觉得，是的。

And I just thought it was yes.

我觉得这太有趣了，因为那只是一个随口的评论，但有人抓住不放，还引导其他玩家逐渐认同了他们的观点。

And I just thought it was so funny because it was almost an offhand comment, but somebody sort of grabbed onto it and then just wouldn't let go and then kinda drove the rest of the players to kind of agree with them.

所以我假设这是有可能的，但并不是你原本计划好的。

And so I I assume that's possible, but not necessarily planned on your part.

它只是那种自然而然发生的状况。

It just kind of is one of those natural

不，完全不是。

No, not at all.

不是。

No.

那只是说，是的。

That's just yeah.

你扮演了一个有杀人意图的角色。

You played a will to murder.

我对这个游戏并不那么熟悉。

I don't know the game that intimately.

这不是我写的游戏。

It wasn't one I wrote.

所以，我真的不敢相信我们是故意设计出这个的。

So yeah, I can't believe we planned that.

我觉得那只是运气而已。

I think that was just luck.

是的。

Yes.

而且只是当时玩的时候自然出现的结果。

And just what came out on the play.

正如我所说，每次他们执行时，都会略有不同。

As I say, every time they run, they're slightly different.

我在运行这些时，经常会觉得，哦，这个地方我可以稍微调整一下。

I quite often come away when I'm running them, I often come away thinking, Oh, I could change that a little bit there.

感觉我们总是在进行游戏测试。

Feels like we're always playtesting.

但当然，这应该是你们游戏独有的特点，我猜。

But yeah, no, that will be something unique to your game, I suspect.

是的，是的，是的。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

所以这会引发你设计这类游戏时脑海中的一些设计思路。

So that kind of brings sort of some of the design thoughts that you put in your mind when you're when you're designing one of these.

每次你做初稿时，我都得想象，你会不会觉得，凶手太明显了，你知道的？

And I I just have to imagine every time that you're you're doing, at least the first draft, you're like, well, the murderer is so obvious when I've you know?

那我们该怎么把它隐藏起来呢？

So how can we sort of obfuscate it?

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

因为你已经知道所有细节了，所以对你来说一切都显而易见。

Because you already know how everything has it, so it's obvious to you kind of thing.

然后通过玩家测试，就能验证这是否真的成立。

And then then playtesting will sort of prove if that's true or not.

但你知道，这跟我自己的情况不一样，至少我不是这样做的。

But you know, that doesn't how it doesn't that's not how it works for me anyway.

你比我更擅长写作。

You're a much more secure writer than I am.

我的写作风格不一样。

My my write is different.

我通常会以情节为中心来构思我的作品。

Well, I I tend to write mine in a plot centered idea.

我的意思是，我会先确定一个大致的构想。

So what I mean is I work out the general idea.

好的，我们要做一个发生在奥斯卡颁奖典礼后、类似好莱坞谎言般的谋杀谜案。

Okay, we're gonna have a murder mystery in a post movie Oscar ceremonies like Hollywood lies.

我会思考那些会到场的各种不同人物，即会出现的角色。

And I'll think about the various different people that will be there, characters that will there.

我们会有一些导演。

We'll have directors.

我们会有一些演员。

We'll have actors.

我们会有的制片人。

We'll have producers.

我们会有的其他人，重要的人。

We'll have other people, important people.

然后我会思考除了谋杀之外的其他情节，比如可能有人试图拍一部电影。

And then I'll think about the kind of plots, apart from the murder, but we might have people trying to make a movie.

我们可能会有持绿卡的人或遇到各种问题的人。

We might have someone with a green card or issues and various things.

然后我会从这些情节出发，思考其中一个情节并把它写出来。

And then I'll the plots from Then I'll think of that plot and I'll write it out.

谋杀案我会写出谋杀的具体情况，从凶手的视角来写，也会从其他涉及这个情节的次要角色的视角来写。

The murder will be I'll write what the murder is and I'll write it from the murderer's perspective and I'll write from anyone else who's got a small bit of that plot's perspective.

所以有人可能目击了这件事，或听到了什么，或知道其他事情。

So someone would have witnessed this or heard that or knows something else.

在理清了线索、谋杀的手段、动机和机会之后，我会进一步确定谁看到了什么，以及所有线索的位置。

Having worked out how the clue, how the murder could be solved with means, motive and murder, no, opportunity, then I'll work out who's seen what and where all the clues are.

但我很有信心，因为我已经做过几次了，一旦我把其他所有情节都加进去，凶手就会在人群中悄然消失。

But I'm confident enough because I've done it a few times that once I add all the other plots in, then it'll just be one big the murderer will just sort of disappear in the crowd.

明白了。

Right.

另一个情节线。

Another It's plot line.

在很多方面，这确实只是另一个情节。

It's in in many ways, it is just another plot.

是的。

Yeah.

这就是那个情节。

It's the plot.

这个情节涉及一个新来的僧人，可能会有公告说有人被杀了之类的。

It's the one that has a new monk and it's know, maybe there's an announcement that someone's been killed or what have you.

但没错，在很多方面，这只是众多情节中的一个。

But, yes, in many ways, it's one of many plots.

这太棒了。

That is excellent.

这说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

是的，这完全说得通。

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

这就像扔下一团大毛线，然后试图把它全部拆开。

It's almost like dropping a big ball of yarn and having to try and pull it all apart.

是的，差不多就是这样。

Yeah, pretty much.

对，对，对。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

在桌面角色扮演的意义上，我有时会把它比作你有一大堆带有剧情和背景的非玩家角色，全被塞进了一个盒子里。

In tabletop role playing sort of sense, I sometimes liken it as actually you've got a whole bunch of NPCs with plots and backgrounds shoved into a box.

然后你打开盒子，它们全都朝不同方向蹦出来，做着不同的事情。

And then you open the box and they all spring out in different directions and do different things.

所以他们都有自己的背景，而你真的不知道故事会往哪个方向发展。

So they've all got their own backgrounds and you don't really know where it's going to go.

而且他们都有各自想做的事，全都朝着不同的方向前进。

And they've all got different things they want to do and they're all going different directions.

是的。

Yeah.

在你玩这些角色时，或者当别人跟你谈起他们玩过你的游戏时，有没有出现过什么让你大吃一惊的意外情况？比如你根本没想到会这样？

Have there been any big surprises either when you've been playing them or when you've gotten people talking about games of yours that they've played where you're like, wow, I didn't see that coming?

哦，我真希望刚才注意到这个问题。

Oh, I wish I had noticed that question.

我一时想不起来有什么例子。

I can't think of any off top of my head.

没有。

No.

没关系。

It's fine.

没有。

No.

我不能，我不能，好吧。

I can't I can't Okay.

没关系。

No worries.

如果之后想到的话，我可能会再回来谈这个。

I may come back to it if in case that pops up.

我想不出有什么大的惊喜。

I can't think of any big surprises.

是的。

Yep.

显然，它的结构吸引了我，但还有选项的多样性。

Obviously, the the structure of it is is what what drew me to it, but also the breadth of options.

你知道，我们有传统的二十世纪三十年代侦探。

You know, we have the traditional, you know, nineteen thirties detective.

你有西部题材的超级英雄，还有奥斯卡派对。

You got Wild West superheroes, Oscar parties.

你知道的，几乎任何你想要的类型都能找到，因为你之前说你有大约45款不同的游戏？

You know, pretty much any genre you're looking for, you should be able to find because you said you had, like, 45 different games?

是的。

Yeah.

差不多吧。

Something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

我们还没有摄政时期题材的。

We haven't got Regency.

错过了简·奥斯汀和《布里奇顿》的市场。

Missing the Jane Austen Bridgerton market.

还没加入这个。

Haven't got that yet.

我们不得不认真考虑这个问题。

We've had to think about it.

这有点难解决，因为我们希望角色没有性别限制，并且可以灵活选角。

It's a bit tricky one to crack because we like to have ungendered characters and flexible casting.

但要进入

But going into

哦，对。

Oh, right.

在角色分配等方面，会比较困难。

With roles and whatnot, it would be hard.

是的，关于角色分配。

Yeah, with roles.

这稍微难一点，但我相信我们最终会解决的。

That's a little harder, so I'm sure we will crack it.

只是还没完全做到而已。

Just haven't quite got there yet.

这确实是个很好的观点，因为对我来说，举办这类活动最大的困难之一就是安排时间。

That's actually a great point because one of the things for me, the biggest difficulty in putting one of these off is scheduling.

对吧？

Right?

要让所有人都能参加，还要确保那些说能来的人真的到场，你知道的。

Getting everybody to be able to make it, and then making sure that the people who say they make it get there, you know, right.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

事实上，我们之前演出时，有一位妻子生病了，没能来。

In fact, when we played, one of the wives fell sick and she couldn't come.

所以我们请了另一个人和他的妻子来顶上。

And so, we were able to pull in somebody else and his wife.

但我想说的是，我真的很欣赏的一点是，你们确实有。

And and so but what what I'm getting at is one of the things I really appreciate is that you have yeah.

就像你说的，你们为女性设置了角色。

Like you said, you have roles for women.

你们为男性设置了角色，但同时也有一些角色其实无所谓性别。

You have roles for men, but then you also have roles that it really doesn't matter.

甚至名字也通常是中性的。

And even go so far as the names are are generally gender neutral as well.

因此，这种设计提供了灵活性，可以根据需要调整，或者根据你们想邀请的人的组合来安排。

And so it allows that flexibility to kind of move in and and pivot if needed or just, you know, depending on the the mix up of people that you wanna invite.

所以这挺酷的。

So that's that's pretty cool.

是的。

Yeah.

我们还有一些完全不分性别的游戏。

We have a few games that are completely ungendered as well.

所以，如果你们举办全是女性或全是男性的聚会，我们甚至有适合这种情况的游戏。

So if you do have an all female or all male party, then we've even got games that do that.

我的意思是，是的，这是我们尽量多做的一件事。

I mean, yeah, that's something we try to do a bit more.

我想最近十年左右，我们比以前更常这么做。

I guess more recently in the last ten years or so, we've probably done that more than we used to.

一直以来，拥有几个无性别设定的游戏都很重要，因为，是的，如果你还记得那些关于如何举办谋杀派对的建议，我们回头再谈这个。

It was always important to have a few ungendered because, yeah, if you remember those how to host a murder parties, let's come back to that.

它们总是为六人、八人或情侣设计的。

Were always for six people or eight people or couples.

我能理解他们为什么这么做。

I can see why they did that.

但当我刚开始时，我希望它能灵活一些。

But when I started, I wanted to know, want this to be flexible.

不是每个人都有伴侣，所以我们要确保能灵活搭配。

Not everyone is in a couple, so let's make sure we can mix it up a bit.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

这一直是一个设计目标。

Was always a design goal.

而且它确实有效。

And and it works.

比如，我们玩的那款游戏，玩家人数通常在六到九人之间，我记得，还不包括律师。

And because, like, for instance, the one we did is anywhere from six to nine players, if I remember correctly, not counting the lawyer.

所以，是的，这带来了很好的灵活性和可能性。

So, yeah, creates creates a nice amount of flexibility and a possibility.

你知道的。

You know?

我以前喜欢玩《血染钟楼》，但要协调十个人、十一个人、十二个人在同一晚上参与，真的需要费很大劲来安排时间。

I used to like playing blood on the clock tower, but trying to coordinate, you know, ten, eleven, 12 people on the same night is, is a pretty epic wrangling of schedules.

是的。

Yes.

对于那些举办大型游戏的人来说，他们是在办一场活动。

Think for the people who do run the bigger games, they do it as an event.

没错。

Right.

这绝对是一场经过精心策划的活动，而不是临时匆忙拼凑起来的。

It's definitely an event that rather than just a last minute throwing it all together.

是的。

Yeah.

有些人会不时地拍摄照片。

There are people who have we get photographs every now and again.

你可以在我们的网站上看到一些派对的照片。

You can see them on our website of some of the parties.

有大量精心布置的场景和装饰，服装也非常出色。

There's loads of elaborate staging and decoration, and the costumes are fabulous.

真的很棒。

It's really nice.

这很有趣。

That's fun.

所以我注意到你们还有给孩子们玩的游戏，比如儿童版谋杀之谜。

So I did notice that you also have games for kids, murder mysteries for kids.

嗯，我们确实有。

Well, we have yeah.

所以我们的主要谋杀之谜系列都是以电影世界为背景设计的。

So the the main set of murder mysteries are all, we sort of age them in sort of cinema worlds.

适合12岁及以上的人参与，只要内容合适。

And so they go for their 12 plus if they're suitable for anyone.

15岁及以上的是那些包含一些婚外情或略带挑逗内容的。

15 plus if they've got a bit of affairs or something risque.

18岁及以上的是那些涉及毒品、酒精等内容的。

And 18 plus if they've got drugs and alcohol and things like that in them.

然后我们还有海盗岛和不给糖就捣蛋，这些更像是儿童派对游戏。

Then we have Pirate Island and Trick or Treat, which are more sort of kids party games.

这些是专为孩子们设计的活动。

They're sort of activities for kids.

其实还挺有趣的。

They're quite fun actually.

在《海盗岛》里，孩子们会扮演海盗船上的船员。

Pirate Island is you have your kids and they're all playing crews of a pirate ship.

他们需要争取成为——我记不太清了——最棒的海盗。

And they've got to be, I can't remember exactly, the best pirate.

然后他们会去寻找宝藏。

And they go and try and find treasure.

他们还会进行一些小比赛，比如射击靶子、弹瓶盖击中目标，以及谁为自己的船创作的歌曲最好等等。

They've got little competitions to try and do such as gunnery targets, flicking bottle caps to try and hit targets and who comes up with the best song for their ship and things like that.

所以这只是一个派对游戏。

So it's just a party game.

这些游戏中没有谋杀案。

There isn't a murder in those.

我本来想说，如果他们真的在解决一起谋杀案，那会挺有意思的。

I was gonna say it'd be I just kind of kind of interesting if they're they were actually solving a murder.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，你知道，没错。

And, know, so yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，说实话，作为成年人，我倒是很喜欢这种活动。

I mean, I've like, to be honest, that's the sort of thing I'd quite enjoy as an adult.

但没错。

But Yeah.

你知道，我们主要还是针对孩子设计的。

You know, so we target them more at kids.

我有点想到像《史酷比》那样的冒险，就是你们在寻找真相，没错。

Kind of thinking of like a Scooby Doo adventure or something where you're trying Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

所以目前为止我们还没有专门针对年幼孩子的设计，我认为，那些针对低龄孩子的语言内容更少。

So we haven't done a specific I think I think for the younger kids, I mean, the the language there's less to read in those.

他们本身也不太愿意读太多文字，我猜是这样。

They wouldn't want to read too much anyway, I would guess.

我经常说，你要了解自己的孩子。

I would often say, you know your kids.

你可以看看其中一个游戏，然后判断：这对他或她来说太难了。

You'll be able to look at one of the games and go, Actually, that's too much for him or her.

或者，不，他完全能应付得来。

Or, No, he'd be absolutely fine with it.

最近我一直在为我女儿运行这些游戏。

And I've been running them lately for my daughter.

因为我花了很多时间，她才完成了她的第一个。

As I've taken a long time, she ran her first one.

实际上，她的第一次是在封锁期间进行的。

Actually, her first one was during lockdown.

但她去年过了十八岁生日。

But she had her eighteenth birthday party last year.

我和她一起为她和她的朋友们举办了《伊斯坦布尔快车谋杀案》。

She And I ran Murder on the Istanbul Express for her and her friends.

所以我们让满院子的青少年假装在一辆

So we had the garden full of teenagers pretending to be on a

在一列火车上。

On a train.

一列横跨大陆的火车上。

Cross continental train.

这太棒了。

That is awesome.

那一定会非常有趣。

That would be so much fun.

所以，显然，谋杀谜题是你的拿手好戏。

So, obviously, murder mysteries are your bread and butter.

你有没有想过用同样的方法尝试其他类型的游戏？

Are there other types of things you might wanna start a start sort of using the same methodology on?

所以，我想，从日常工作来说，谋杀谜题确实是主业。

So I guess, yeah, the bread and butter in terms of the day job.

但我平时也做很多室内游戏、自由创作和组织活动。

But I also do a lot of chamber laps, free forms, writing, and running anyway.

从2000年代初开始，每年我们大约有三十个人会租下德比郡一座改造过的谷仓，过一个周末。

Every So year since about the early 2000s, about 30 of us have been meeting in a rental, some converted barns in Derbyshire that we rent for a weekend.

在周五晚上，

And on the Friday

周五晚上，

the Friday

我们会分成小组。

night, night, we form we into groups.

在周五晚上和周六，我们会创作游戏。

On the Friday night and the Saturday, we write games.

到了周日，我们就来玩这些游戏。

And then on the Sunday, we play them.

通常我们会写出五到六个游戏。

And typically, five or six games will be written.

这些游戏都非常粗糙。

And these they'll be very rough.

它们就像非常粗略的初稿。

They're like a very rough draft.

我们会在周日玩到所有游戏。

We'll get to play games all on Sunday.

所以这是一个年度性的创意活动，有时会非常紧张。

So that's an annual creative, intensely stressful sometimes event.

但非常有趣。

But it's a lot of fun.

但这些游戏的类型都差不多。

But it's more of the same type of games.

所以如果你想象一个《谋杀意志》，它的字数和角色数量也差不多。

So if you imagine a Will to Murder, it's a similar sort of amount of words and characters.

通常，每个游戏大约有十名玩家。

Typically, the games are about 10 players each.

但它们的主题多种多样。

But they'll be on all sorts of topics.

它们经常相当有极客风格。

They'll be quite often quite geeky.

我写过关于简·奥斯汀的游戏，也写过基于《神父特德》电视剧的游戏。

I've written ones on Jane Austen and ones based on the Father Ted TV series.

我们还做过其他各种主题的游戏。

We've had others on all sorts.

所以是的，这些游戏也很有趣。

So yeah, they're quite fun as well.

当你提到和50或60个人一起玩时，意思是把他们分成五到六个独立的游戏吗？

When you talk about doing it with 50 or 60 people, does that mean they're broken into five or six different individual games?

还是说这整个群体只玩一个大型游戏？

Or is there one massive game for this group of people?

不是。

No.

这是一个大型游戏。

That's one massive game.

会有不同的派系。

There'll be various factions.

比如不同物种的外星人，以及来自不同星球的人。

So there'll be aliens of different species and people from different planets.

我是一名宇宙飞船的船长，我本该对这个角色设定烂熟于心的，但我现在还是记不清，大概是地球力量联盟之类的组织。

I'm a spaceship captain in, I should probably know this by now off by heart but I don't, in the sort of Earth Force Alliance or whatever they're called.

不，抱歉。

No, sorry.

是一名科学官，不是飞船船长。

A science officer, not a spaceship captain.

然后还有管理空间站的人。

And then there are people who run the station.

是的，有很多派系。

Yeah, there's lots of factions.

所以会有很多信息需要传递。

So there'll be a lot of information that needs moving around.

关于星际之间的虫洞存在一个完整的谜团，我不清楚那里到底发生了什么，但显然有一个需要解开的谜题。

There's a whole mystery about the gates between space systems that is I don't know what's going on there, but there's clearly a mystery that needs solving.

这只是我的游戏设定。

And that's just my game.

其他人也会有自己的不同游戏。

Everyone else will be having their own different games.

大使们会做大使该做的事情，商人则会做商人该做的事情。

The ambassadors will be needing to do ambassador type sort of things, and the traders will be doing trader type sort of things.

而且，是的，它会

And, yeah, it'll

所以这非常有趣。

be So that's that's fascinating.

所以，有一个整体的游戏在进行，每个群体之间会相互互动，但他们也有自己的特定目标。

So there's there's, like, one overarching game that's going on, and each group will over will will interact with one another, but they also have their own kind of thing.

比如，商人并不关心这些虫洞。

Like, for instance, the traders don't care about the gates.

不过，他们可能会关心，因为无法把货物运进去，

Well, they may care because they can't get their goods in,

但，是的。

but Yes.

那不是他们的职责去解决这类问题。

That's not their job to solve kind of thing.

没错。

No.

但这一切都充满了互动。

But there's all of this sort of interaction.

而且

And

是的。

Yeah.

如果我跟二十个人交谈，我猜我会跟那里不到一半的人交流，因为我的时间不够，没法见到所有人。

And if I talk to 20 people so I I will talk to less than half of the people there, I suspect, as in my game just because I won't have time to meet them.

对。

Right.

这太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

而且

And

从概念上讲，你可以转身扮演另一个派系，玩完全相同的游戏，是的。

So, conceptually, you can turn around and play the exact same game as a different faction and Yeah.

从不，是的。

Never Yep.

绝对不要遇到你刚刚做过的事情。

Never cross paths with the stuff you literally just did.

是的。

Yes.

事实上，去年的游戏是基于那本小说改编的《将军》。

In fact, the game last year was Shogun based loosely on the book, the novel.

几年前我曾以另一个角色玩过这个游戏。

And I had played that a few years earlier as a different character.

一点都没剧透。

Didn't spoil a thing.

两者之间的重叠非常少。

There was very little crossover.

天哪。

Oh, man.

它就是

It was

一款完全不同的游戏。

a completely different game.

是的。

Yeah.

这真是太迷人了。

That is that is just fascinating.

那么，这些游戏是你们内部自己保留的呢，还是实际上可以购买，或者在展会之类的地方使用？

And so are these are these just kind of kept amongst yourselves as it were, or they're actually available for, like, purchase or or use in, like, a convention setting or something?

它们不可以。

They're not.

它们是内部保留的吗？

Are they kept amongst themselves?

它们只在我们内部保留，是因为我们不擅长宣传它们吗？

Are they only kept amongst ourselves in the sense we're rubbish at publicizing them?

他们大概是唯一对这个感兴趣的人。

They're the only people who'd want it kind of thing.

这些文件通常组织得不好，也不像能被别人直接使用的成品。

The files don't tend to be terribly well organized and presented as something someone else could run.

让我再回到Freeform Games的话题上。

So I'm going go back to Freeform Games a moment.

我们花了很多时间研究如何让普通人、非玩家也能成功主持这些游戏。

That's something we spent quite a lot of time on, is working out how we can get ordinary people, non gamers, to run these games successfully.

周末游戏是由懂行的人编写和主持的。

The weekend games are written and run by people who know what they're doing.

给新手的说明根本不存在。

The instructions for a newbie are nonexistent.

想到要拿起来自己琢磨，简直让人望而却步。

And the thought of trying to pick one up and trying to puzzle it out is quite daunting.

但是啊，我没有一个现成的方案，如果你正在听这个，觉得感兴趣，可以给我发邮件，邮箱是stevefreeformgames at，我可以帮你联系对的人。

But yeah, I don't have a I guess if you wanted to email me if you're listening to this and thinking, Oh, I fancy that, email me stevefreeformgames at and I can put you in touch with the right people.

或者有一个英国Freeforms的Facebook群组，就是一群做这个的人。

Or there's a UK Freeforms Facebook group, which is the little group of people that do that.

所以你可以加入那个群组去了解。

So you could join that and find out.

是的，UK Freeforms，全部连在一起，是groups。

Yes, UK Freeforms, that's all one word, groups.

Io。

Io.

酷。

Cool.

它是

It's the

那种我非常想参与的事情。

kind of thing that I would love to participate in.

我不知道是否真的会发生。

I don't know if it'll ever happen.

所以在这里，有几个游戏展会可以玩这类游戏。

So over here, there are several games conventions where you can play these sort of things.

最大的一个在十一月于盖特威克附近的奇切斯特举行，叫做Consequences。

The biggest one is held near Gatwick near Chichester in November, and it's called Consequences.

在美国东海岸，你们有Intercon。

In America, on the East Coast, you've got Intercon.

哦，原来如此。

Oh, okay.

Intercon是一个长达周末的活动，有数百个这样的游戏。

Intercon is a long weekend with hundreds of these games.

那些较小的游戏，规模更接近我们出售的类型，而不是那种特别庞大的游戏。

The smaller games, the games are bit more like the size we sell, not the really monstrous games.

所以，如果你在东海岸这边，或者在英国并且感兴趣，那么英国的Consequences或者美国东海岸的Intercon都是不错的选择。

So yeah, if you're on that side of the coast or if you're in The UK and fancy it, then yeah, Consequences in The UK or Intercon in East Coast.

我不确定还有没有其他地方。

I'm not sure there are many other places.

北欧实验室里有很多东西，但说实话，我对这些了解得并不多。

There's a whole load of stuff in the Nordic lab, but I'll be honest, I don't know actually that much about it.

我也不太了解。

Me neither.

我的商业伙伴莫在北欧LARP圈里做了很多工作，他写这类LARP，但这些对我来说吸引力没那么大。

My business partner, Mo, he does a lot in the Nordic LARP scene and he writes those kind of LARPs, but they're not that doesn't appeal to me quite so much.

那是他的强项。

So that's his strength.

我的专长在另一个方向。

Mine's in a different direction.

说得有道理。

Fair enough.

还有没有其他我想聊但没提到的内容？

Was there anything else, that you wanted to talk about that I didn't touch on?

我一挂电话可能就想起来了，不过现在没有。

I will probably think of something as soon as we hang up, but no.

说得通。

Fair enough.

目前看来是这样。

Think so at the moment.

没有。

No.

非常感谢你邀请我参加。

Thank you very much for having me on.

我感谢你..com。

Iiappreciateit..com.

是的。

Yeah.

我本来想说，让大家知道一下。

I was about to say, let let people know.

但，是的，我的意思是，我们确实有一个简单的游戏评级系统：红灯、黄灯、绿灯。

But, yeah, I mean, obviously, we we have a game rating system, red light, yellow light, green light, just to keep things simple.

而且，显然这些自由形式游戏对我来说都是绿色信号，完全是绿色的。

And, obviously, these Freeform games are green lights, solid green lights for me all the way.

一切都很顺畅。

Everything works smoothly.

说明文档非常友好，清楚地指导了作为组织者和作为玩家分别需要做什么。

The instructions were very nice to step you through what you needed to do as the person running it, what you needed to do as a player.

在游戏进行过程中，有充足的时间，我从未有过‘此时我不知道该做什么’的时刻。

And then there was plenty of time while the game was going on that there was never any moment of I don't know what to do at this point.

我觉得这很好地解决了我之前遇到的问题。

So that I thought was a nice and, a nice answer to the problem I had.

我本来想说，你是个玩家，所以你有优势。

I was gonna say, you're a gamer, so you've got an advantage.

我曾经告诉过别人，或者试图说明：作为主持人，玩家并不知道规则，所以你搞错了也没关系。

One of the things I have told people is or trying to put the wheels, there's there's no as a as the host, the players don't know, so it doesn't matter if you get it wrong.

这没错。

That is true.