本尼·布兰科：通往成功的失败秘诀

所以你有这个凳子。

So you have this stool.

你的生活就在上面。

Your life's up top.

对吧？

Okay?

这就是你的生活。

This is your life.

就是座位的顶部。

It's the top of the seat.

然后你有，你知道的，三条或四条腿。

And then you have, you know, three, four legs.

你生活中最重要的三件事是什么？

What are the three most important things in your life?

你会怎么说？

What would you say?

我读过那些书。

I I've read the books.

我不想给出

I don't wanna give the

答案。对。

answers Yeah.

大多数人会说事业。

To Most people say career.

某种形式的事业，赚钱，不管是什么。

Some form of career, making money, however, whatever it is.

大多数人会说家庭，或者爱人，或者妻子，或者丈夫，不管是什么。

Most people say their family or their loved ones or their wife or their husband, whatever it is.

然后大多数人会说跟健康有关的事情。

And then most people say something to do with their health.

这些就像是三个相当标准的支柱，代表了什么重要。

Those are like three pretty standard pillars of of what's important.

同意。

Agree.

所以你有这三样东西。

So you have those three things.

你的生活就在上面。

You have your life on top.

对吧？

Okay?

如果这三条腿中有一条倾斜得厉害，你的桌子就会倒。

If one of those three legs is like leaning more, your table's gonna topple over.

你的生活就会垮掉。

Your life's gonna topple over.

所以你必须确保你在这三件事上都投入足够的精力。

So you have to make sure you're putting enough energy into all three things.

因为很多人，他们开始专注于成功。

Because a lot of people, what they do is they start focusing on the success.

他们开始专注于这段旅程。

They start focusing on the journey.

然后他们爬到了山顶，但其他一切都毁了。

Then they make it to the top of the mountain, and everything else is fucking gone.

他们没有家庭。

They don't have a family.

他们的健康一团糟，因为他们一直拼命工作。

Their health is in shambles because they've been working so hard.

他们忽视了健康。

They've neglected it.

他们就像得了心脏病一样。

They're like, they have heart disease.

他们有这个。

They have this.

他们有那个。

They have that.

他们有焦虑症。

They have anxiety.

我觉得如果你同时注重所有这些方面，不落下任何一个，那才是真正的成功。

I think if you focus on building all of those simultaneously, you don't leave one out, then that's where the true success comes.

这样你才能从中汲取灵感。

And that's how you draw from the inspiration.

对我来说，我总是确保自己吃得好，给身体补充营养。

And and for me, it's like I always make sure, like I'm making sure I'm putting a good meal in my body.

对我来说，让我保持清醒的就是散步。

I'm making sure, for me, like, the thing that keeps me sane is, like, walking.

我每天走两万步。

I'm walking, like, 20,000 steps a day.

真的吗？

Really?

你住在加州，住在洛杉矶，你很可能见过我在街上走。

You live in California and you live in LA, you've probably seen me walking down the street.

就是，我就是走走路。

Like, it's just I I walk.

我就走。

I walk.

然后不管怎样，我都会花时间和家人在一起。

And and then no matter what, I spend time with my family.

我会陪我的妻子。

I spend time with my wife.

我会陪塞琳娜。

I spend time with Selena.

关键是，我们俩都在工作。

Like, it's like the thing is we both work.

我们都在拼命追逐自己的梦想。

We're both chasing our dreams so hard.

我们俩总是想超越自己。

We're we're both always trying to, you know, one up ourselves.

最疯狂的是，和一个这么高产又这么成功的人在一起，真的特别酷。

And the thing that's crazy is it's so cool to be in a relationship with someone who is so prolific and so successful.

因为看着她，我就是她最大的啦啦队长。

Because I look at her and I'm like her biggest cheerleader.

我都把彩球拿出来了。

I got pom poms on.

但同时我又会想，天哪。

And at the same time, I'm like, shit.

好吧。

Okay.

我得做得更多才行。

I need to be doing more.

我们俩都是这样。

And we're both like that.

而且这很棒，因为我们在互相点燃对方的热情。

And it's and it's cool because we're fueling each other's fire.

我们就是彼此的柴火。

We're the wood for each other's fire.

而且我们总是确保，每周都得有个约会之夜。

And we always make sure, like every week, gotta have a date night.

每周，一天结束的时候，都得互相聊一聊。

Every week, the end of the day, have to check-in with each other.

好好谈谈。

Have those talks.

就像，你今天过得怎么样？

Be like, how was your day?

然后认真听。

And listen.

我们是真的在听对方的生活。

We're actually listening to each other's lives.

也许赛琳娜会说，嘿，我这周真的需要两次约会。

Maybe Selena's like, hey, I could really use two dates this week.

就是，我，我……

Like, I'm I'm...

或者我可以说，嘿，我压力特别大。

Or I could say, hey, I'm super stressed.

比如，今晚能不能帮我挠挠头？

Like, can you like scratch my head tonight?

这跟你在那里努力奋斗、拼命想达到目标一样重要。

And that's just as important as being in there, putting in the work, trying to get to where you are.

给你的所有植物浇水太重要了。

It's so important to water all your plants.

这真的很重要。

It's so important.

跟埋头苦干、不理会那些黑子一样重要的，就是给植物浇水。

As important as grinding it out and not listening to haters is watering the plants.

你知道吗，我每个周末都会跟我妈去农贸市场。

You know, I go with my mom to the farmers market every single weekend.

我给她做午饭，然后……

I cook her lunch after...

因为这些东西能让你感到充实。

Because these are the things that fill you up.

你得把自己的杯子倒满。

You gotta fill your cup up.

你作为丈夫，哪里做得不好？

How have you failed as a husband?

塞琳娜第一次执导她的节目。

Selena was directing her first show.

我们不知道具体什么时候开始。

And we didn't know when it was gonna happen.

我本来打算找一天去现场。

And I was planning on trying to get there one of the days.

但我没能去成，因为日程排得太满了。

And I couldn't get there because I was so booked up.

我一直在给她鼓励，跟她聊天，她回家后我也听她倾诉，但我就是没法到场。

I was giving her all the inspiration, talking to her, listening when she got home, but like I couldn't get there.

我真希望那几天我能抽出时间去一趟。

And I wish I could have been able to get there one of the days.

这是其中一件事。

That was one thing.

还有一件事，我觉得我辜负了她，而且我正在努力改进。

And then here's where I think I've failed her that I'm I'm working on.

我不喜欢坐飞机。

I don't like to fly.

而且我总会去看她，不管她什么时候……

And I always come and see her and do whenever she's...

不管她在做什么。

Whatever she's doing.

但我到那儿要花太长时间。

But it takes me so long to get there.

这过程真的挺麻烦的。

And it's like such a process.

我一直在努力改变自己，希望能更快地到她身边。

And I'm really, really working on myself to try to be able to get there quicker.

我知道这是我们关系里我做得不够好的地方。

That's where I know I've failed in our relationship.

我正尽全力去克服这个困难。

Where I'm actively trying my hardest to overcome that.

但我还没做到。

And I haven't done it yet.

在这件事上我确实失败了。

I've failed at that.

不过每天都在进步。

But I'm getting closer every day.

最近我坐了一次飞机，八年没飞了，能这么做全是因为她。

I got on a plane recently, and she's the only reason I've been able, I haven't flown in eight years.

跟我们聊聊那个恐惧症吧。

Talk to us about that phobia.

为什么

Why does

它会存在？

it exist?

它是从哪儿来的？

Where did it come from?

我觉得是控制欲的问题。

I think it's control.

我坐过一次很糟糕的航班，后来又遇到几次，然后，你懂的。

And I had a bad flight, then had a few, and then, you know.

我偶尔会坐飞机，但已经八年没飞了。

And I fly occasionally, but I haven't flown in eight years.

为了她，也为了这本书，我一直在努力克服。

And trying to get better for her, and for this book.

这本书帮我飞了起来。

This book helped me fly.

我当时想，我怎么能去跟别人推销一本关于失败的书，而我自己却在某件事上失败了，而且还没去做呢？

I said, how could I go on and be selling everyone on a book on failures when I failed at something and I haven't done it?

我还没去做。

I haven't done it.

所以有一天早上我醒来，对自己说，我要上飞机。

So I woke up one morning and I said, I'm getting on a plane.

我不能……

I can't...

哪怕就一次，我也得一步步靠近。

Even if it's one time, I have to inch my way closer.

然后我上了飞机，怕得要死。

And I got on a plane and I was scared shitless.

但我还是做了，因为我心里一直想着，我不能对这些人撒谎，这是其一。

But I did it because in the back of my head, I was thinking, I can't lie to these people, one.

第二，我得做个更好的丈夫，真他妈的。

And two, I gotta be a fucking better husband.

必须做个更好的丈夫。

Gotta be a better husband.

那场架吵了大概一个多小时。

It was like an hour and change fight.

那挺好的。

So that's good.

你试了试水。

You you tested the waters.

不是那种，我要坐十个小时的飞机。

It wasn't like, I'm gonna take like a ten

不，不是。

hour No.

不是。

No.

大概吵了一个小时……

It was like hour...

就是家里那种吵架。

It was domestic.

就像去拉斯维加斯或者去

It's like to Vegas or to

对，就像那样。

like Yeah.

亚利桑那州之类的。

Arizona or something.

我想在上车前先下车。

I wanted to get off before I got on.

我刚刚告诉自己，我不行了。

And I just I had just told myself, was like, I can't.

我得再往前走一点。

I gotta get a little bit further.

我得再靠近一点点。

I gotta get just a little bit closer.

那天我并不是想一下子把所有事情都搞定。

And I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying to, like, conquer it all that day.

我对自己说，就上这一趟航班。

I said, just get on this one flight.

就上这一趟航班。

Just get on this one flight.

我一直这样告诉自己。

And that's what I kept telling myself.

然后我上了飞机。

And I got on.

虽然我很害怕，但我做到了。

And I was scared, but I made it.

我记得之后我给塞琳打了电话。

I remember I called Celine after.

我就说，我飞了那趟航班。

I was like, I did the flight.

她说，你准备好明天飞了吗？

She's like, are you ready to fly tomorrow?

然后我说，还没呢。

And then I was like, not yet.

但我正在路上。

But I'm but I'm on my way.

这整个关于失败的想法里有很多东西，因为你从小处开始，飞了一个小时的航班。

There's so much to that in this whole idea of F failure because it's like, you started small, you did a flight that was one hour away.

你说，就飞这一趟，就发那一个视频，就走那一步，就做那首歌，就从一件小事开始。

You said, just take this one flight, just post that one video, take that one step, make that one song, like just start with one.

然后这个想法不是说它突然消除了你所有的恐惧，突然消除了你所有的不安全感，它只是……

And then the idea that it's not that it suddenly took away all your fear and suddenly took away all your insecurity, it just...

它让你更近了一步。

It got you one step closer.

这让我更近了一步。

It got me closer.

这让我更接近了。

It got me close.

而且你不必非得一天之内就爬完那座山。

And you don't have to don't have to climb the mountain in one day.

很多人面对眼前一堆任务时，都会觉得压力山大。

A lot of people get overwhelmed with all the tasks in front of them.

这是我在别人身上最常看到的情况。

That's what I notice the most with people.

他们会被这些想法压得喘不过气来，比如，好，我想开个播客。

They get overwhelmed with, okay, so I wanna start a podcast.

那如果我开播客，我得先买摄像机。

Well, if I start a podcast, I need to get the cameras.

然后如果我买了摄像机，还得买麦克风。

And then if I get the cameras, need to get the microphones.

然后我还得找嘉宾。

And then I need to find guests.

然后嘉宾会是谁呢……

And then who are the guests gonna...

我觉得就像这样，一次只专注于一个部分。

I think just like focus on one part at a time.

我从来不会一次做太多事情。

I never try to do too much at once.

作为词曲作者和制作人，我不得不拒绝很多项目，要是四岁的我，肯定会哭着说必须得做这些。

I had to turn down so many projects as a songwriter and producer where, like, the four year old me would be, like, crying that I had to do this.

但我知道，如果我把精力分散得太开，就没法专注于重要的事情。

But I knew if I spread myself too thin, I wouldn't be able to focus on what was important.

我喜欢像激光一样，一次只专注一件事。

And I like to be laser focused on like one thing at a time.

每个人都想一天之内把房子盖好。

Everyone wants to build the house in a day.

哦，你得……

Oh, you gotta...

咱们从基础开始吧。

Let's start with the foundation.

哦，然后，咱们把碎石放进去。

Oh, then like, let's like put the gravel in.

哦，咱们放……

Oh, let's put...

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我觉得这需要时间。

I think it takes time.

而人们总想一夜之间成为成功的故事。

And people wanna be a success story overnight.

我觉得Instagram、推特，或者X，不管它叫什么，还有TikTok，让人们太想加速了。

And I think Instagram, Twitter, or X, whatever it's called, TikTok made people wanna accelerate so much.

对我来说，你知道，现在你只要点一下按钮就能看到别人的成功，那已经是过去的事了。

And to me, you know, you see someone's, now you just click a button and you see someone's success, it's already done.

然后人们就会嫉妒，说，我也想出名。

And people get jealous, and they say, well I want to be famous.

比如，我年轻的时候，没人会说我想出名。

Like, when I was younger, nobody just said I want to be famous.

那根本不算回事。

Like that wasn't a thing.

你不会随便说，哦，我想出名。

You wouldn't just say like, oh, I wanna be famous.

人们都有个目标。

People had a goal.

我想成为世界上最好的足球运动员。

I wanted to be the best soccer player in the world.

我想成为世界上最好的篮球运动员。

I wanna be the best basketball player in the world.

我想成为世界上最棒的人权活动家。

I wanna be the best rights activist in the world.

我想成为那样的人。

I wanted to be this.

我觉得人们需要找到自己的热情所在。

And I think people need to find a passion.

你在书里讲了一些现在很出名的人的故事，非常精彩。

You tell some amazing stories of some people who are now famous in the book.

我想让你讲讲布鲁诺·马尔斯的故事，因为我觉得他以前是猫王模仿者这件事太不可思议了。

I wanted you to tell the Bruno Mars story because I thought that was incredible to read that he used to be an Elvis impersonator.

我当时就想，我完全不知道这事儿。

And I was like, I didn't even know that.

他小时候是个猫王模仿者。

When he was a kid, was an Elvis impersonator.

我记得第一次和布鲁诺合作的时候。

I remember the first time I worked with Bruno.

我把他带到了录音室，那时候他还不出名。

I brought him to the studio, and he wasn't known yet.

那是他成名前好几年的事。

This was years before he was known.

他一进录音室，就写歌、编和声，什么都能搞定。

He gets in the studio, he writes his song, his harmonies, everything.

看着真是让人难以置信。

It was so unbelievable to watch.

我记得当时就想，天哪，这家伙太厉害了。

I remember being like, oh my god, this guy's insane.

布鲁诺最疯狂的地方就在这里。

This is the crazy part about Bruno.

他签了唱片合约，结果被解约了。

He was signed to a record deal, and he got dropped.

然后他不得不重新开始。

Then he had to start again.

他给别人写歌，什么活儿都接。

He's writing songs for people, doing anything he could.

他写了不少歌，后来都有人开始录了。

And he wrote a bunch of songs that people started recording.

他给Travie McCoy写了《Billionaire》。

He did Billionaire for Travie McCoy.

他给BOB写了《Nothing on You》。

He did Nothing on You for BOB.

副歌部分是他唱的demo。

He was the demo vocalist on the chorus.

他们当时想找大牌来唱，把他换掉，因为他当时还不是正式歌手。

And they were trying to get all these big people to be the feature and take him off because he wasn't an artist yet.

但他唱得太好了，我有个朋友叫Aaron Bayshak，就是他签的Bruno，他说，我们得让这哥们儿留在录音里。

And he was so good that one of my friends who signed him, this guy named Aaron Bayshak, he was like, we gotta keep this guy on the records.

就是说，我们必须让他唱这首歌。

Like, we have to put this guy on the song.

然后大家都说，不行，不行。

And everyone's like, no, no.

他没什么名气。

He's no name.

不行。

No.

这歌肯定卖不动。

It'll never sell.

而且他们找不到任何人能像他那样唱好那个小样。

And they couldn't find anyone who could sing the demo as good as him.

然后他就上了那首歌。

And then he gets on the record.

《Nothing on You》成了冠军单曲。

Nothing on You becomes a number one song.

我记得他……

I remember he...

那首歌刚火起来的时候，我正好和他一起工作。

I was working with him right right after that song first happened.

他说，有人在机场认出我了。

And he said, somebody noticed me in the airport.

他说，我他妈的要火得不行了。

He goes, I'm gonna be fucking huge.

我记得你说过……

I remember you saying...

你知道吗？

You know what?

最搞笑的是，那时候正好是迈克·波斯纳因为《Cooler Than Me》这首歌特别火的时候。

The funniest part was, it was right when Mike Posner was really big with the song Cooler Than Me.

我们在录音室里，我给他看迈克·波斯纳在爆满的大学里演出的片段。

And I was showing him, we were in the studio and I was showing him clips of Mike Posner performing at like a sold out college.

我记得我们当时在散步，然后去买了点吃的。

I remember we were walking around and we like got food.

他说，天哪，总有一天我连像这样在街上走都做不到了。

He was like, man, one day I'm not even gonna be able to walk through the streets like this.

他很有干劲，但一直碰壁。

And he had that drive, and he kept failing.

他失败了很多次，没人相信他。

He failed so many times, and nobody believed in him.

然后，你知道，签约了，又被解约了，他努力推销自己的歌。

And, you know, signed, he's dropped, he's trying to place his songs.

他的歌被撤下来。

He's getting kicked off the song.

他们又把他放回去，因为没别的选择。

They putting him back on because they got no other choice.

他纯粹的天赋，加上意志、拼搏和干劲，造就了今天的他。

And his sheer talent mixed with will and fight and drive made him who he is today.

他比我认识的任何人都更努力。

He works harder than any person I know.

他会连续三年反复打磨一首歌，不断调整制作。

He will work on a song for three years straight, changing the production.

真的吗？

Really?

重新制作。

New production.

是的。

Yes.

世界上没有人像他那样拼命做音乐。

There is nobody in the world that that works on their music as hard as he does.

他是演艺圈里最努力的人。

He's the hardest working man in show business.

哇。

Wow.

这可是个很重的评价。

That's a big statement.

任何和他一起工作过的人

Anybody who's ever worked

或者认识他的人，都会在山顶上大声附和我的看法。

with him or who knows him would echo my sentiment from the top of a mountain.

他之所以能有今天的成就，靠的是他的努力、他的职业操守、他对失败的健忘，以及他一次次摔倒了再爬起来继续尝试的坚定意志。

The reason he is where he is today is because of his work, his ethic, his amnesia to failure, and his sheer willingness to dust himself off and try again over and over again.

而且他恰好还是世界上最才华横溢的歌手。

And he also happens to be the most talented singer in the world.

所以这也不差。

So that doesn't hurt either.

我看过他几次现场表演。

I've seen him perform live a few times.

他简直不可思议。

He's unbelievable.

他简直不可思议。

He's unbelievable.

太棒了。

So good.

我问你作为丈夫失败过什么，是因为书里你讲了一个故事。

The reason why I asked you about how have you failed as a husband was because there's a story in the book that you tell.

我特别喜欢那个故事，因为我觉得当我们看到像你这样的人，或者你看像布鲁诺·马尔斯、像萨利诺那样的人，不管是谁，你都会觉得你得努力去模仿他们。

And the reason why I loved it so much is because I think when we watch people like you or you watch people like Bruno Mars or you watch people like Salino, whoever it may be, you think you have to try and be like them.

而在书里，你有一个很棒的故事，你对艾德说，艾德，告诉我你生活中发生了什么。

And in the book, have this great story where you say to Ed, you're like, Ed, tell me about what's happening in your life.

别试图去写别人的生活，或者写那些感觉对的东西。

Like, don't try and write about someone else's life or something that feels right.

我们大多数人失败，是因为我们努力去做好别人，而不是从做那个糟糕的自己开始。

Most of us fail because we're trying to be good at being someone else rather than starting as just being the bad version of ourself.

如果你从糟糕的自己开始，你会变成一个了不起的自己。

If you started as the bad version of yourself, you'll become a phenomenal version of yourself.

但如果你从别人的糟糕版本开始，你哪儿也去不了。

But if you start as a bad version of someone else, you're not going anywhere.

我朋友说过一句话，我一直记在心里。

My friend said something that always stuck with me.

他说，做你自己，因为其他人都已经被占了。

They said, be yourself because everyone else is taken.

我特别喜欢这句话。

And I love that.

就是要做原创，做自己。

Just be original, be you.

没关系的。

It's okay.

看看我。

Look at me.

就像，我跟我现在成为的样子、我本该成为的样子完全相反，但我始终忠于自己。

Like like, I am like the antithesis of like, what I became and what I'm supposed to be, and I always am just true to myself.

我和艾德·希兰在一起，我们刚在多伦多结束一场演出。

And I was with Ed Sheeran, and we had just finished a show in Toronto.

然后我们去了那个德雷克……

And we went to this like Drake...

就是德雷克和未来一起发专辑那会儿。

It was when Drake and Future put out that album together.

我们去了那个庆功派对，真的超酷。

We went to like the after party and it was like so cool.

我们玩得特别开心。

We're like having the time of our lives.

我们离开的时候。

We leave.

上了大巴。

We get on the bus.

是这样的，巡演回美国的时候，他们会在边境检查站把你叫醒。

And the way it works is when you're on tour and you're going back to America, what they do is they wake you back up at the border patrol.

我们说，我不想被叫醒然后又回去睡。

We said, I don't wanna have to get woken up and then go to sleep again.

咱们写首歌吧。

Let's write a song.

好。

Okay.

这一切都被拍下来了。

And this is all on film.

你可以看到这些。

You can see this.

这被记录在一部纪录片里。

This was documented in a documentary.

我们开始写歌，艾德写的是关于爱上一位年长女性，她就像他的邻居。

We start writing a song, and Ed's writing it about like being in love with like an older woman that's like his next door neighbor.

他有点像在模仿电影《毕业生》。

And he was like kinda copying The Graduate, the movie.

我说，艾德，我不想写这个。

I was like, Ed, I don't wanna write about this.

你生活中发生了什么？

What's going on in your life?

现在发生了什么？

What's going on right now?

他说，我不想写关于那个人的歌，因为那样我就给了他们我不认为他们应得的满足感。

He was like, I don't wanna write a song about that person, because then I'm like giving them the satisfaction that I know they don't deserve.

那是关于一个前任的。

And it was about an ex.

我说，那我们为什么不写一首关于你不想写那首歌的歌呢？

I said, well why don't we write a song about you not wanting to write a song about it?

他看着我，好像我疯了似的。

And he looked at me like I was crazy.

他说的第一句话是，我不想写歌，因为我不想让任何人觉得我在乎，因为我真的不在乎。

The first thing he said was, I don't wanna write a song because I don't want anyone to think that I care, because I don't.

这成了《Love Yourself》中最重要的歌词之一，后来成了贾斯汀·比伯的歌。

That became one of the most important lyrics in Love Yourself, which became a Justin Bieber song.

那一刻，他放下了一切，不再担心，只是发自内心地说话，做真实的自己，正是这首歌的灵感来源。

In that moment, him just letting go of everything, and not worrying about it, and just like speaking from his heart, and being his true self, is what inspired that song.

这就是为什么那么多人对这首歌产生共鸣，因为它表达了人们真实的情感。

That's why so many people connect to that song, because it's that true feeling that people have.

我觉得这也是人们普遍与音乐产生共鸣的原因，因为如果你有某种经历，在某个地方也会有别人有同样的经历。

I think that's why people connect to music in general because if you're having an experience, somebody else is having that same experience somewhere.

而且我觉得这归根结底就是你应该永远做自己。

And I think it just goes back to how you should always just be yourself.

不要试图成为别人，因为那不会是你自己。

Don't try to be somebody else you're not because it's not gonna be you.

所以你是……

So you're...

而且你不可能永远维持下去。

And you can't keep it up forever.

你不可能永远戴着面具。

You can't keep up a facade forever.

所以做自己就好。

So just be yourself.

做自己，别人就会接受你本来的样子。

Be yourself and people can take you as you are.

如果他们……

And if they...

失败了就失败了。

If you fail, you fail.

成功了就成功了，然后继续往前走。

If you succeed, you succeed, and you keep moving.

我之所以喜欢这个，也很高兴你分享出来，我想让大家知道，当你拿到这本书时，里面满满都是故事，一页接一页。

The reason why I love that, and I'm so glad you shared it, and I just want everyone to know when you get this book, this book is filled with story after story, page after page.

你那些精彩的故事多得让人难以置信。

Like the amount of awesome stories you have is unbelievable.

比如我读这本书的时候，就想，天哪，还有这首歌，还有这个人，那个人。

Like when I was reading the book, was like, oh my god, there was this song and this and this person.

真的，简直难以置信。

Like it's unbelievable.

但我之所以问你这个问题，是因为这里面有太多的失败。

But the reason why I asked you that is because there's so much failure in it.

首先，艾德经历了一次分手，这算是一种失败。

So first of all, Ed's gone through a breakup, which is a sort of failure.

对。

Yep.

然后他试图写一首不是真正自己的歌，这也算是一种失败。

Then he's trying to write a song that isn't really him, which is a sort of failure.

然后你对他说，好吧，从你自己的经历出发去写。

And then you say to him, well, write from your own experience.

然后突然之间，灵感来了，我就想，这就是我们都搞错的地方。

And then all of a sudden it hits and I go, that's what we're all getting wrong.

比如，我们害怕在Instagram或TikTok上发布那个视频，或者害怕写出真正关心的话题的书，或者害怕基于我们真正需要的东西去创业，而恰恰是这些东西最能引起人们的共鸣。

Like, we're scared to put out that video on Instagram or TikTok, or we're scared to write the book that really is what we care about, or we're scared to start a company based on what we actually need when that's the thing people are gonna resonate with.

人们只是想要你……

People just wanna You'll

合适，合适，对。

fit fit Yeah.

你知道什么最疯狂吗？

You know what's crazy?

还有，那首歌的副歌原本是‘你应该去滚蛋’这样的。

Also, the chorus to that song used to be, you should go and fuck yourself.

明白吗？

Okay?

我跟他说，我不想让它变成‘滚蛋’，因为六十年后，人们还会想唱这个吗？

And I said to him, I don't want it to be fuck yourself because in sixty years, are people gonna wanna be singing that?

你觉得那听起来像经典吗？

Like, does that sound like a classic to you?

我说，如果我们换个方式，给人们传达同样的信息，但更用心一点。

I said, if we do something else, let's give people the same message, but be a little bit more thoughtful.

我完全支持用‘fuck’这个词。

And I'm all for using fuck.

我也支持用那些脏话，但得在合适的时候用。我觉得当时没必要，因为我们可以用更巧妙的方式表达同样的意思。

And I'm all for using stuff, using profanities, but when it makes sense, I didn't think we needed in that moment because I thought we could get the same sentiment in a more clever way.

然后我们又失败了。

So then we failed again.

后来我们把它发给贾斯汀，让他录了这首歌。

Then it took us sending it to Justin and then having him record it.

然后它终于见光了，还成了冠军单曲。

And then it saw the light of day and then it was the number one song.

这个想法有很多次都可能被扼杀掉。

And there were so many times where that idea could have stopped.

对吧？

Okay?

失败、尴尬，这些都可能让这个想法无法实现。

Failure, embarrassment, all of those things could have stopped this idea from happening.

但我们一直坚持，让这列货运火车继续前进，我们对自己有着不可动摇的信念。

But we kept pushing through, and we kept the freight train going, and we kept that undeniable belief in ourselves.

这就是人们需要在自己身上找到的东西。

That's what people need in themselves.

你需要相信。

You need to believe.

只要相信一切都会发生。

Just believe that it's all gonna happen.

一切都会以某种方式解决的。

It's all gonna work out somehow.

某种方式。

Somehow.

我经常和朋友聊这个，我们就像生活在一个看不到终点的世界里。

I always talk to my friend about this, where we'll be like in a world where it's never, there's no finish line in sight.

我们完全不知道该怎么到达那里。

We have no idea how we're gonna get there.

但我总是说，我相信一切都会好起来的，因为通常都会。

But I always say, I trust that it's all gonna work out because it usually does.

要么你会到达终点线，结果正好是你想要的，反响很好，大家都会喜欢，你自己也会喜欢。

It's either gonna work out in the sense that you'll get to that finish line and it'll be exactly how you want, and it'll be well received, and people will love it, and you'll love it.

要么你到了终点线，完成了，然后你会说，靠，这没按我们想要的方式发展。

Or you'll get to that finish line, you'll do it, and you'll say, shit, this didn't work out how we wanted it to.

我们回去看看哪里犯了错，下次别再犯同样的错误。

Let's go back and look at where we made our mistakes and not make the same ones the next time.

这仍然是成功。

Still a success

对我来说。

to me.

对，你让我想起了两件事。

Yeah, you just reminded me of two things.

有句话我说过，你最终会到达你人生中想去的地方，只是不是以你想象的方式。

One thing I say is, you'll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagined it.

没错。

Exactly.

因为我一直都能达到我人生中想要的目标，只是走的不是我以为的那条路。

Because I've always got to where I want in life, just not the path or the road that I thought my life was gonna take.

我最喜欢约翰·列侬的一句名言是：一切最终都会好起来的，如果还没好起来，那说明还没到最后。

One of my favorite quotes from John Lennon is he said, Everything will work out in the end, And if it hasn't worked out, it's not the end.

我特别喜欢这句话，因为它让你意识到，你总会找到另一条路、另一扇门、另一个转折点。

And I and I love that because it just makes you realize that you're gonna find another way, another door, another pivot.

我之所以讲这个故事，是因为即使是你，刚开始做音乐的时候，人们也拿你和Timberland、Farell比较，说你的作品听起来像他们。

And why I brought this story up is because even for you, when you first started making music, people compared you and said your work sounded like Timberland and Farell.

所以，不只是你在告诉Ed要做自己。

So it's not even you telling Ed to sound like himself.

人们也在对你说同样的话，你听到这些时是怎么做的？

People were telling you, what did you do when you heard that?

首先，这真的是一个极大的赞美，因为我们是听着他们的音乐长大的……

I mean, first of all, it's a phenomenal compliment because we grew up on...

我和你年纪一样大。

Me and you're the same age.

就像，法瑞尔和廷伯兰当时就像……

Like, Farell and Timberland were like

我来自弗吉尼亚。

I'm from Virginia.

太不可思议了。

Unbelievable.

那些人过去是，现在也是我世界上最喜欢的制作人之一。

Those guys were and are some of my favorite producers in the world.

我当时在模仿他们。

And I was copying them.

我没有做自己。

I wasn't being myself.

我没有忠于自己。

I wasn't being true to myself.

我当时想融入进去，想做出在音乐上能行得通、大家都会喜欢的东西。

I was trying to fit in, and I was trying to make something that would work musically, and that everyone would latch onto.

我记得我放给一个A&R听，那个人现在是我的经纪人，而且一直是我的经纪人。

And I remember I played that for an A and R who's now my manager and has been my manager the whole time.

你说的是安德鲁吗？

Talk about Andrew?

安德鲁。

Andrew.

安德鲁，给他点个赞。

Andrew, shout out.

我放给他听，他说，如果我要的是Timberland或Farell的制作，我直接去找他们就行了。

I played it for him and he said, if I wanted a Timberland or Farell production, I would just go to them.

我想知道BENNY的制作听起来是什么样的。

I wanna know what a BENNY production sounds like.

然后我记得我回到起点，问自己，BENNY的制作听起来到底是什么样的？

And then I remember I went back to the drawing board and I said, what does a BENNY production sound like?

然后我开始做东西，结果特别奇怪。

And I started making stuff, and it was really weird.

特别古怪。

It was really quirky.

一开始没人懂。

And at the beginning, nobody understood it.

他们完全不明白。

They didn't get it.

我也没拿到那些短期的合作机会。

I didn't get those like short term placements.

但我创造了一些东西，后来经过很多很多次失败，撞了很多次墙，终于有东西通了。

But I created something that down the road, after many many failures and bumping my head against the wall, something clicked.

我成了我自己。

And I became my own person.

我变得独一无二。

I became something unique.

人们总是在寻找与众不同、独一无二的东西。

And people are always looking for something different and unique.

那些容易的，他们可以随便塞一个能立刻见效的东西进去。

The easy, they can slot in something like that's gonna work in the moment.

但那就像摘低处的果子，太容易了。

But that's like low hanging fruit.

你不想成为那种低垂的果子。

You don't wanna be low hanging fruit.

你想成为一颗未经雕琢的钻石。

You want to be that diamond in the rough.

你想成为大海捞针里的那根针。

You want to be that needle in the haystack.

要达到那个目标，你就得把自己推出去，哪怕可能会暂时出点丑，你懂的。

And to achieve that, you have to put yourself out there in ways that might, you know, show your bum for a little bit, you know.

可能会有点尴尬。

And it might be a little embarrassing.

而且可能不会立刻得到你想要的结果或回应。

And it might not get the results or the response that you want right away.

但如果你在做一些特别的事情，而不是随大流，那才是你能获得那种爆发性回报的地方。

But if you're doing something that's special and you're not just following, then that's where you can get those explosive returns that you want.

你有没有在重要经理、决策者或艺术家面前出过很大的丑？

Have you ever embarrassed yourself really badly in front of a big manager, decision maker, artist?

能给我们举个例子吗？

Can you tell us an example?

你知道，我第一次和SZA合作的时候，我本来可以进去放一些别人做得比我好得多的节拍。

You know, the first time I worked with SZA, I coulda gone in there, and I coulda played her beats that like some other guy could make way better than me.

然后试着在她的项目上争取一个位置。

And tried to just get one on her project.

但当我进去的时候，我想听她唱一首民谣，因为我知道……

But when I went in there, I wanted to hear her do a ballad because I knew...

用吉他伴奏，因为我知道……

With guitar because I knew...

我听到了她的音乐影响，也听到了一些她还没完全尝试过，但已经稍微涉足的东西。

I I hear her influences and I hear things that she hadn't totally done yet, but that she had done a little bit.

比如，你知道，她做过《超模》这样的歌。

Like, you know, she had made, you know, supermodel.

她做过一些有点像那样的歌。

She had done records that sounded like that a little.

但我想做的是，我知道她不仅能做到，而且能比那个领域里的其他人做得更好的东西。

But I wanted to make something that I knew she was not only capable of, but could do better than other people that do in that other genre.

我的意思是，SZA 是一个真正的领导者。

I mean, SZA is a true, true leader.

她不怕失败。

She is not afraid to fail.

她会做她想做的事。

She will do stuff that's what she wants to do.

如果大家都往左走，她就会往右走。

If everyone's going left, she's going right.

这就是伟大艺术家的风范。

And that's what a great artist does.

所以我给别人听过一些让我自己都尴尬得要命的歌。

So I've played things for people that would embarrass the hell out of me.

你知道，有时候别人会说，不行，换一首。

You know, and sometimes people are like, no, next.

对赛琳娜，我有什么说什么。

To Selena, I say what's on my mind.

即使这不像酷酷的大男人该做的事，我也会说，我想你。

Whether it's not the cool macho thing to do, I say like, I miss you.

比如，我现在真的很需要多抱抱或者多亲亲。

Like, I really could use some extra cuddles or hugs right now.

也许这让我听起来不是世界上最酷的人。

And maybe that doesn't make me sound like the coolest guy in the world.

有时候，宝贝，我现在真的觉得很脆弱，我需要你的鼓励，你……

And sometimes, oh, babe, I'm feeling, you know, really vulnerable right now, and I I could use your, like, motivation, and you're...

她特别会跟我聊天，我也不用总是当那个穿着超人斗篷、最强硬的人。

She's so good at talking to me, and I don't have to be the strongest guy in the room with with the Superman cape on.

我可以把斗篷摘下来，需要的时候拿来擦擦眼泪。

I could take that cape off and use it as a tissue if I need to every now and again.

对吧？

Okay?

所以，有时候在房间里我可能会觉得有点尴尬。

So maybe that would leave me embarrassed in a room.

比如在商务会议上，周围都是聊投资的人。

I could be in a business meeting with like guys talking about like investments.

我可能会说，嘿，我不太明白那是什么意思。

And I might say, hey, I don't know what that means.

你们能给我解释一下吗？

Can you guys explain that to me?

我不需要每时每刻都什么都懂。

I don't need to know everything in every moment.

我不需要什么都懂。

I don't need to be a know it all.

我可能会说，我们这是在聊什么呢？

I might say, what are we talking about here?

抱歉，我对这个不太熟悉。

Sorry, I'm just not well versed in this.

而且这可能会让我显得……

And and it might make me seem to...

他们会说，你连那个什么什么税表都不知道？

They'll be like, you don't know what a blah blah blah tax return is?

说实话，我真不知道。

And I honestly, no.

我完全不知道那是什么。

I have no idea what it is.

我可能还会开个小玩笑。

And I might make a little joke about it too.

我也不怕这么做。

And I'm not afraid to do that.

而且我不怕，为什么？

And I'm not afraid because what?

我就假装自己知道大家在聊什么。

I'm just gonna pretend I know what what everyone's talking about.

对某些事情不太了解是没关系的。

It's okay to not be fully educated on something.

没关系。

It's okay.

提问是完全可以的。

It's okay to ask questions.

当你说自己没动力或者感到脆弱时，Selena会对你说什么？

What does Selena say to you when you say I'm not feeling motivated or I'm feeling vulnerable?

她要么会说一些特别鼓舞人心的话，比如‘我也是’。

She'll either say something super inspirational, so say me too.

你知道吗？

You know?

然后我就会坐在那里，看看电影什么的。

And I will just sit there, watch a movie or something.

她是个总能找到光明面的人。

She's like a silver linings girl.

她总是引导我看到事情好的一面。

She always guides me to the silver lining.

我本身很乐观，但有时候你可能会不那么乐观。

And I'm very optimistic, but in certain times, maybe you're not.

她总能很好地让你把事情看得更全面。

She always puts everything into perspective in a great way.

你需要一个能为你做到这一点的伴侣。

And you need a partner that can do that for you.

有时候我觉得，成功的人都在努力追求成功。

Sometimes I think people who are successful are trying to be successful.

他们不会为自己的胜利而沾沾自喜。

They don't revel in their own wins.

比如，他们试图表现得像，哦，你的歌拿了第一名。

Like, they try to act like, it's like, oh, like, your song went number one.

然后就像，哦，好吧。

It's like, oh, okay.

酷。

Cool.

其实不是，那真的很酷。

It's like, no, that's really fucking cool.

别太酷了，以至于不愿意享受自己的胜利。

Don't be too cool to like revel in your wins.

你刚赢了冠军。

You just won a championship.

那太棒了。

That's awesome.

去庆祝吧。

Go celebrate.

告诉你的朋友们。

Tell your friends.

你知道，有些人太专注了，我年轻的时候也犯过这个毛病，就是一直盯着下一件事，再下一件事。

You know, some people are so focused and I've been guilty of it when I was younger of just like focusing on the next thing and the next thing.

你的人生中总会有不在巅峰的时候。

You're gonna have a time in your life where you're not on top.

到时候你会想，哇，为什么我当时没有好好享受那个时刻呢？

And you'll be like, woah, why didn't I take the time to really savor that moment?

你之前提到那个凳子，我在想，当你生活状态好的时候，那真的很有道理。

You were talking about the stool earlier, and I was thinking that that makes so much sense when you're in a good place in your life.

但你在职业生涯早期，做布兰妮·斯皮尔斯的《马戏团》专辑时，你想退出，但有人告诉你，如果你那样做，你会失去署名权。

But early in your career, you were working on the Britney Spears Circus album, and you wanted to step away, and you were told that you'd lose your credit if you did that.

跟我说说，那时候为什么平衡是不可能的？

Talk to me about how balance was not possible at that time.

我当时在制作一张专辑，和一些人合作，同时和女朋友维持着异地恋。

I was in a situation where I was making an album, and I was working with some people, and I had a long distance relationship with a girlfriend.

她只会在纽约待很短的时间。

And she was going to be in New York for a very short period of time.

那是她唯一会在那的时间，之后她就要回欧洲的家了。

And that was like the only time she was gonna be there, and then she was gonna go back home to where she lived in Europe.

而我必须留下来继续做这个项目，就是布兰妮·斯皮尔斯的那张专辑。

And I had to stay and work on this thing, this Britney Spears album.

我记得我跟所有人说，我说，各位，我得走了。

I remember telling everyone, I said, guys, I I gotta go.

我得去见我的另一半。

I I gotta go see my partner.

他们却说，好吧，你可以走，但如果你走了，我们就把你的名字从这首歌上拿掉。

And they said, okay, you can go, but if you go, we're we're we're gonna take your name off the song.

我说，因为我只去两天，马上就回来。

And I said, because I'm gonna go for two days, I'll be right back.

我马上回来，马上回来。

I'll be I'll be right back.

我就缺一天工，另一天是周末。

I'm gonna miss one day of work, and then the other day is a weekend.

我马上回来。

I'll be right back.

他们说，不行。

They said, no.

我记得那一刻我为自己挺身而出，我一点也不害怕。

And I remember standing up for myself in that moment, and I wasn't afraid.

我其实……

I I was.

但其实我是在假装不害怕。

But but I was pretending I wasn't afraid.

然后我说，去你们的。

And I said, fuck you guys.

我就说，我就是要做这件事。

Like, I'm going to do this thing.

你们要是想拿走，那就拿走。

If you wanna take it away, you can take it away.

我知道我这辈子还能继续做出好音乐。

I know I'll be able to, like, keep making great music in my life.

要是你们拿走了，那是你们的问题。

Like, if you take it away, that's on you guys.

因为我离开三十六个小时，去见一个三个月没见、可能还要再过三个月才能再见的人，我愿意冒这个险，因为我需要填补我生活里的那块空白。

Because me leaving for thirty six hours, like to see someone I haven't seen in like three months and I'm probably not gonna see for another three months, I'm willing to take that risk because I needed to fill that part of my life up.

我还能怎么办？

What am I gonna do?

待在那儿，让自己难受吗？

Stay there and be miserable?

我当时就说，拿走好了。

And I was like, take it away.

而且我知道自己的价值。

And I know know my worth.

我知道我能创造出伟大的、真正令人惊叹的东西。

I know that I can create something great, truly spectacular.

所以你想拿走就拿走吧。

So take it away if you want.

我记得我真的这么做了。

And I remember I did it.

设下那个界限之后，我回来了。

And setting that boundary, I came back.

一切都没事。

It was fine.

没什么……

Nothing...

我回来的时候，什么都没发生。

When I came back, nothing happened.