米卡埃拉·诺盖拉独家专访：她终于准备好讲述的故事

我画了一个紫色的截断式眼妆，我永远都忘不了。

I did a purple cut crease I'll never forget.

我想展示我会化妆，所以那天我拿出了最好的作品。

I wanted to show that I could do makeup, so I did my best work that day.

然后我去面试，基本上就是非常坦诚地跟经理聊。

And I went into this interview, and I basically just was really honest with the manager.

我说：“我需要这份工作。”

I said, "I need this job."

不是说为了钱。

Not in the sense that I need the money.

“我需要这份工作，因为美妆就是我的生命，如果我不做美妆，我会觉得特别空虚，我真的需要这个机会。”

"I need this job because beauty is my life, and I'm going to feel so empty if I don't work in beauty, and I really need this chance."

当然，我也回答了其他常规的面试问题。

Obviously, I did all the other traditional interview questions.

但面试结束时，她说——其实我申请的是收银员的职位，而且，哇，我现在说起来都有点激动，因为这是第一次有人相信我。

But at the end of the interview, she was like-- I actually applied for a cashier position, and this was, wow, I'm already getting emotional talking about this because this was the first time someone believed in me.

你永远不会忘记第一次有人相信你的那一刻。

You'll never forget the first time someone believes in you.

我的Ulta经理看着我说：“其实我不想让你当收银员。”

My Ulta manager looked at me and she said, "I actually don't want you to be a cashier.

“我想让你当店里的化妆师。”

I want you to be a makeup artist on the floor."

而且你要知道，我之前除了给自己化妆，没有任何化妆经验。

And mind you, I had no makeup experience except for the makeup I do on myself.

我当时想：“天哪，就是这一刻。”

And I thought, "Oh my gosh, this is it.

“这是有人在我身上看到了潜力。”

This is someone seeing something in me."

我上班的第一天是最棒的一天。

And my first day was the best day ever.

他们给了我刷具腰带、刷子，还有我的Ulta名牌，我开心极了。

They handed me my brush belt, gave me brushes, my Ulta name tag, and I was just so happy.

我当时特别开心。

I was so happy.

然后我就爱上了在那里工作。

And then I loved working there.

那对我来说就是一切。

It was everything.

在那里我学到了你能想象到的关于美妆的一切，对我来说，那是我思考未来的转折点，我知道我在美妆领域确实有一席之地。

I learned everything you can imagine about beauty working there, and that, to me, was a turning point in me thinking about my future, and I knew that I did have a place in beauty.

你刚才说到有人相信你的时候，情绪那么激动，我真的很喜欢。

I love how emotional you just got about- ... the idea of someone believing in you.

尤其是在你的梦想上。

Especially in your dream.

我猜你的父母也相信你。

And I imagine your parents believed in you.

我觉得父母很多时候都是想为你好的，对吧？

I think for parents, a lot of the times, they want the best for you, right?

所以当我跟我爸妈说‘我想当美妆博主’的时候，他们的反应就是‘哦，行吧’。

And when I go to my parents and say, "I want to be a beauty influencer," it's like, "Okay."

哦，有意思。

Oh, interesting.

好吧。

Okay.

所以尽管他们自己是创业者，也很有创意，什么都懂……

So despite them being entrepreneurs and creative and everything...

我觉得他们是害怕了。

I think they were scared.

他们希望我在美妆行业工作，但‘博主’、‘网络创作者’这个概念，那是什么东西？

They wanted me to work in beauty, but that concept of being an influencer, being a creator on the internet, what is that?

因为我爸妈年纪比较大，他们都七十多岁了。

Because I have older parents, so my parents are in their 70s.

所以他们成长过程中完全没接触过这些。

So they didn't grow up with any of that.

他们对这个完全不了解。

They don't know anything about that.

我爸连手机都不会用。

My dad doesn't even know how to use a phone.

所以他们当时挺怀疑的。

So they were skeptical.

不是怀疑我能做出什么成就。

Not skeptical that I would make something of myself.

他们其实一直为我骄傲，各方面都特别相信我。

They really are always proud of me and believe in me in every way you can think of.

但更多的是那种，“哦，你想在网上做这个？”

But it was more so the, "Oh, you want to do this on the internet?"

这对他们来说是个疑问。

That was a question for them.

说实话，我觉得任何父母都会这样。

Which I think it would be for any parent, transparently.

百分之百。

100%.

当然。

Absolutely.

所以是的，你会遇到这样一个时刻，哇，一个在这个行业工作的人——

So yeah, you get this moment of, wow, someone who works in this industry-

在Ulta工作的人对你抱有这种积极的态度——

... at Ulta has this positive emotion towards you-

并且认为你不应该只是个收银员。

... and recognizes that you shouldn't just be a cashier.

你可以——

You could-

实际上在店里做化妆师。

... actually be on the floor doing makeup.

我希望她能听到这些，因为——

I hope she sees this because-

她叫什么名字？

What's her name?

你还记得吗？

Do you remember?

她叫林赛，是的。

Her name was Lindsay, yeah.

哦，你还记得她的名字？

Oh, you remember her name?

我希望她能看到这个。

I hope she sees this.

天哪。

Oh, my gosh.

你还记得她长什么样吗？

Do you remember what she looks like?

哦，当然记得。

Oh, yeah.

哇，真没想到。

Oh, wow.

短发，戴眼镜，很漂亮。

Short haircut, glasses, beautiful.

Lindsay，给你一个大大的致敬。

Lindsay, big shout-out.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

你后来还见过她吗？

Have you ever met her again?

几年后我见过她一次。

I saw her a few years later.

她在另一家店当经理。

She was a manager at a different store.

好的。

Okay.

我见到她了，所以就这样。

I saw her, so.

好的。

Okay.

但自从那之后就没再见过了？

But not since all of this?

没有，但那样会很酷。

No, but that would be cool.

那确实会很酷。

That would be cool.

我愿意那样，是的。

I would be open to that, yeah.

想象一下，如果现在Lindsay就在后台。

Imagine we had Lindsay in the back right now.

那会很有趣。

That'd be funny.

就像说：“各位，把Lindsay请出来吧。”

It's like, "Guys, bring Lindsay out."

哎呀，我们真该那么做的。

Oh, man, we should have done that.

哇，那太棒了。

Oh, that's awesome.

我真希望她能看到这个。

I really hope she does see this.

因为我能看出她对你影响有多大。

Because I can see what impact she's had on you.

是的，她对我影响很大。

Yeah, she has had a big impact on me.

这太不可思议了，对吧？

It's incredible, isn't it?

像那样的人，自己都没意识到。

People like that who didn't realize.

他们甚至都不知道自己为你做了什么。

They didn't even know what they were doing for you.

他们只是做了而已。

They were just doing it.

我有时候会想起那些人，那些为你开门或者给别人机会的人。

I think about those people sometimes, the people that opened doors or gave someone an opportunity.

他们并不是那些出名的人或者怎样，但每个人生命中都有这样的人——

They're not the ones who are well-known or whatever it may be, but everyone has someone like that in their life-

……或者几个这样的人。

... or a few people like that in their life.

你永远不知道谁会走进那扇门。

You never know who's walking through the door.

这真的很了不起。

That's pretty remarkable.

那么，等等，你在Ulta得到了这份工作。

So wait, you get this job at Ulta.

其实，我想稍微回到你之前提到的放弃这个话题。

And actually, I want to track back a little bit to the point you talked about giving up.

因为我觉得那真的很有意思，因为到目前为止，我听到的都是你的自信，听到你相信自己。

Because I find that really fascinating, because up until now, I'm hearing your confidence, I'm hearing you believe in yourself.

你14岁就开始写博客了。

You're posting a blog at 14.

你还有YouTube。

You've got YouTube.

说真的，那时候做这些事算是很早的了。

Just to be really clear, that is early days to do that.

现在人们做这些是因为能看到结果。

Now people are doing it because you can see where it goes.

而你是在这还比较新鲜的时候就开始做了。

You're doing it at a time when it's still pretty new and fresh.

所以这些都不是小事。

So those are not small things.

跟我说说，是什么让你走到了那一步，觉得自己可能得放弃这个梦想？

Talk to me about what had to happen for you to get to a point to say, "I might have to give up on this dream.

觉得这事儿成不了了。

I don't think it's happening."

我上了商学院，上学的时候看到别人在金融、会计这些领域拿到大机会，那些工作能让他们走得很远，而我读的是传媒专业。

When I went to a business college, and as I was going through school and seeing just people getting these opportunities in finance and accounting, and all of these big jobs that are going to take them really far, and I was getting a communication degree.

我当时想着以后做电视或者广播之类的工作。

And I was thinking about working in TV or radio or something like that.

后来我去电台实习，还挺喜欢的。

And then I interned in radio, and I liked it.

很喜欢，但总觉得少了点什么。

I liked it a lot, but there was something still missing.

什么都对不上，大四的时候我特别迷茫。

Nothing ever fit, and I felt really confused when I was a senior in college.

就像我说的，我放弃了。

And like I said, I gave up.

我上的那所大学，再说一遍，挺保守的。

I went to a college that was, again, pretty conservative.

没人化妆。

No one's wearing makeup.

其实有个女生，她叫达娜，达娜·罗斯。

There was actually a girl, her name is Dana, Dana Rose.

她现在是个美妆博主，说来有趣，我们俩是朋友。

She's a beauty influencer now, fun fact, and we're friends.

但她比我高一年级，还是校队运动员，她总是化着全妆在校园里走，去训练。

But she was a year above me at the school, and she was an athlete at the school, and she would walk around campus with a full beat to go to practice.

她的妆特别漂亮，我一直很羡慕她。

And she had this gorgeous makeup, and I always admired her.

我好奇她以后要做什么，因为她上的是商学院。

And I wondered what she was going to do with her life because she was going to a business college.

后来我在Instagram上看到她开始做睫毛生意了。

And then I saw on Instagram that she began a lash business.

我当时就想，哇，她上大学拿了个学位，现在却想开个睫毛生意。

And I thought, "Wow, she went to college to get this degree, and now she wants to have a lash business."

所以很明显，商业和美容之间是有某种联系的。

So clearly, there's some correlation between business and beauty.

很明显，这里面肯定有点门道。

Clearly, there is something here.

所以我决定开一个Instagram账号，开始发一些化妆相关的内容，就是化妆品开箱、眼影的照片，因为我画的眼影真的很酷。

So I decided to create an Instagram account, and I began posting just makeup stuff, just makeup hauls, makeup pictures of my eyeshadow, because I did really cool eyeshadow.

Ardell Lashes是一家公司，是做睫毛的。

And Ardell Lashes is a company, it's a lash company.

他们转发了我的其中一张照片。

They reposted one of my pictures.

就是那一次简单的转发，他们觉得我的妆画得够好才转发的。

And just that simple repost, okay, they liked the makeup enough to repost it.

那还挺酷的。

That's kind of cool.

然后我开始给品牌打标签。

And then I began tagging brands.

在照片里给品牌打标签，做更多产品相关的内容，告诉大家我用的是什么产品。

Tagging brands in photos, and doing more product stuff and showing people what products I use.

然后我注意到品牌开始关注我了。

And then I noticed brands were paying attention.

所以如果我展示一款封面女郎的粉底液，封面女郎可能会点赞那张照片。

So if I show a CoverGirl foundation, CoverGirl may like the photo.

我心里想：“哇，这真的非常非常有意思。

And I'm thinking, "Wow, this is really, really interesting.

如果我在这里真的下功夫，也许这能成为我的未来。”

If I really put in the work here, maybe this could be my future."

我隐约有了一丝希望。

I had this hint of a maybe.

所以那时候我就说：“好吧，我要再试一次。”

So that's when I said, "All right, I'm going to try this again."

哇。

Wow.

是啊，我敢肯定你有时候会回头看，心想：“天哪，要是当初我没挺过来会怎样。”

Yeah, I'm sure you sometimes look back and go, "Gosh, if I didn't pull through."

我的天哪。

Oh my gosh.

想象一下——

Imagine-

你一定有过那些人生转折点的时刻。

You must have those sliding doors moments

……

...

我经常想这件事。

I think about that all the time.

因为大学毕业后我确实收到了一份工作邀请，是在一家银行的人力资源部门工作。

Because I did have a job offer after college, and it was going to be to work in an HR department at a bank.

想象一下。

Imagine that.

想象我在银行的HR部门工作。

Imagine me working in the HR department at a bank.

我觉得你会做得很好。

You'd be amazing at it, I imagine.

你确实会很擅长这个。

You'd be really good at it, yeah.

我确实会很擅长。

I would be great at it.

但我觉得我可能会非常——

But I think I would've been really-

说实话，做那份工作会很痛苦。

... miserable in the job, honestly.

从创造力的角度来看。

Just from a creativity perspective.

如果你是一个真正有创造力的人，不经常去激发它，那确实很难受。

When you're someone who's really creative, if you're not constantly activating that, it's tough.

我深有同感。

I can relate to that.

我在当了一段时间的僧人后，又在企业界待了两年，当时我以为那就是我的人生道路。

I spent two years in the corporate world after living as a monk, which I thought was my path.

然后我又在企业工作了两年，顺便说一句，我很享受那份工作，它也不错，我从中学到了很多关于商业的知识，这些知识非常非常有用。

And then spent two years working a corporate job, which by the way, I enjoyed and it was good, and I learned a lot from it about business that's been very, very useful.

但我也有同样的感受。

But I felt the exact same way.

我当时想，'哦，我以为我的人生是帮助别人。

I was like, "Oh, I thought my life was about helping people.

我以为是要发挥创造力。

I thought it was about being creative.

我以为是要教别人东西，引导他们，帮助他们改善生活。'

I thought it was about teaching people something and guiding them, and helping them improve their life.

结果突然之间，这些我全都没在做。

And all of a sudden, I'm not doing any of that."

我是通过那两年才真正醒悟过来的……

And I got that real awakening by spending two...

你比我还聪明。

You are smarter than me.

你早就想明白了——在那两年里就想明白了，这真的很了不起。

You figured it out before- ... spending those two years in there, which is amazing.

但你也有过那种时刻，你得到了Ulta的那份工作。

But you have this moment, you get that job at Ulta.

第一天是最棒的。

The first day is the best day.

但接着2020年来了，疫情爆发了。

But then 2020 comes along, COVID happens.

然后我经历了最糟糕的一天。

And I experience the worst day.

而你经历了你最糟糕的一天。

And you experience your worst day.

是的。

Yes.

跟我聊聊你在Ulta最好的一天和最糟的一天吧。

Talk to me about your best day at Ulta to your worst day at Ulta.

我觉得那一天没人会忘记，就是疫情达到顶峰，全国同时封锁的时候。

That's a day I feel like no one will forget, when COVID hit its peak and the country just simultaneously shut down.

对我来说，那时候我在Ulta工作，同时也在读硕士学位。

For me, at the time I was working at Ulta, I was also getting my master's degree.

而且我正在准备和入职那个人力资源岗位。

And I was preparing and being onboarded for that HR position.

所以我同时做这三件事，感觉真的很好。

So I'm doing these three things at once, and I felt really good.

我觉得很自信，就像“好吧，我的未来，我觉得我能搞定。”

I felt confident, like, "Okay, my future, I feel like I got this."

然后疫情就来了。

Then COVID happens.

Ulta Beauty在全国范围内关门了。

Ulta Beauty shuts down across the country.

我失去了人力资源的职位，因为他们因为对疫情不确定，决定取消这个项目。

I lose my HR position because they decided to shut down the program because they were unsure about COVID.

然后我的硕士项目也整个停掉了。

And then also, my master's program shut down entirely.

连线上课程都没有，直接就停了。

It didn't even go remote, it just shut down.

所以一天之内，我失去了一切，我吓坏了。

So I, in one day, lost everything, and I was terrified.

我真的吓坏了。

I was absolutely terrified.

那是非常糟糕的一天。

It was a horrible day.

我永远忘不了那天，因为我妈妈走进我房间说：“嘿，Mikayla，你的学生贷款账单到了。”

I'll never forget it because my mom came in my room and said, "Hey, Mikayla, your student loans just got delivered to you."

所以我看着这些欠款，如果你也有学生贷款，你肯定知道那是多大一笔钱。

So I'm looking at these student loans that I owe, which if anyone has student loans, you know how much those are.

与此同时，我刚在Ulta暂时丢了工作。

At the same time, I just lost my job at Ulta temporarily.

疫情正在蔓延。

COVID is happening.

学校都关门了。

Schools shut down.

我整个人都在恐慌发作。

I am just panic attack.

恐慌发作。

Panic attack.

我就对着妈妈哭，哭着说我不知道接下来该怎么办了。

And I'm just crying to my mom, crying that I don't know what I'm going to do now.

那真的非常非常吓人。

It was very, very scary.

但那时候我也才21岁，我觉得很多21岁的人都会对未来有点害怕。

But I'm also, at the time, 21 So I think a lot of us at 21 are a little bit scared about the future.

嗯，我觉得每个人都对未来感到害怕，但疫情又增加了一层新的压力——

Well, I think everyone's scared about the future, but I think COVID added a whole new layer-

哦，对。

Oh, yeah

……对所有那时候毕业的人——

... for everyone who was graduating-

是的。

Yes

……或者正在找工作的人来说。

... at that time or looking for work.

是的。

Yes.

我连毕业典礼都没有。

I didn't even have a graduation.

对，有些人是在Zoom上毕业的，或者你根本不知道能不能找到工作。

Yeah, or you're graduating on Zoom for some people, or you don't know if you're going to get a job.

很多人没找到工作。

A lot of people didn't get jobs.

项目也被取消了。

Programs got canceled.

我觉得这对人们来说是一个很特别的转折点，如果你当时是……

I feel like it was such a defining moment for people in a different way if you were-

这要么成就你，要么毁掉你。

It could either make or break you.

你知道吗，Mikayla，我觉得很有意思的是，你在讲人生中最糟糕的日子之一，但在这个采访中，当有人相信你的时候，你却哭了。

You know what I find fascinating, Mikayla, is that you're talking about one of the worst days in your life, but you cried in this interview when someone believed in you.

这让我对你有了很多了解。

And that tells me a lot about you.

哦。

Oh.

你因为有人相信你而热泪盈眶，情绪激动，这恰恰说明你有多感恩——

You got teary and emotional at the fact that someone believed in you, which just shows how grateful you are-

……以及你为好事而哭得有多厉害。

... and how much you're crying at a good thing.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

就像是——

It's like-

我喜欢为好事而哭。

I love crying at good things.

不，但这让我对你了解很多。

No, but that tells me a lot about you.

就是说，这很难得。

As in, that's rare.

我们大多数人，都是在经历不好的事情，或者——

Most of us, we cry when we go through bad things, or we-

……想起不好的时刻或回忆时才会哭。

... remember bad moments or bad memories.

那也很正常。

And that's normal as well.

这没什么不对的。

There's nothing wrong with that.

我不是说这是——

I'm not saying it's a-

那我怎么能在我人生中最重要的一天哭呢？

Well, how could I cry at the most defining day of my life?

我相信时机。

I believe in timing.

我相信时机就是一切。

I believe timing is everything.

我个人相信，事情的发生都是有原因的。

I do believe things happen for a reason, personally.

我觉得那天就是注定要发生在我身上的。

And I felt that that day was meant to happen to me.

那注定是一个巨大的警钟。

It was meant to be a massive wake-up call.

“醒醒，米凯拉，振作起来，因为你一定能行。”

"Wake up, Mikayla, and get it together, because you got this."

这太有力量了。

That's so powerful.

我喜欢这个说法，因为我觉得现在有很多人可能正在经历类似的困难时刻，知道被解雇或者——

I love that, because I feel like there's so many people right now who might be going through a difficult moment or a difficult time like that, and knowing that being let go from your job or-

……被你想去的地方拒绝，或者——

... rejected from the place you want to work at or-

……有些事情没成，可能恰恰是新的开始。

... something not working out could actually be the beginning.

你说过，这可能会成就你，也可能毁了你。

You said it could make or break you.

那之后过了多久你加入了TikTok？

How long after that did you join TikTok?

第二天。

The next day.

哇。

Wow.

很多人不知道关于TikTok的完整故事。

A lot of people don't know the full story about the TikTok.

说来听听。

Tell me.

我妈妈以前是学校的辅导员。

So my mom was a school counselor.

她现在退休了。

She's retired now.

疫情期间她压力很大，因为所有学校都改成线上教学了。

And she struggled a lot in COVID because all schools went remote.

就像我说的，我父母年纪大了，我妈对技术一窍不通。她知道我懂视频，就来找我，问我能不能想个办法让她在网上给学生上课。

And like I said, my parents are older, so my mom knows nothing about technology, and she came to me knowing I knew about videos and asked me if I could figure out a way for her to teach her students virtually.

我就说：“行。

And I said, "Okay.

现在有个应用挺火的。”

Well, there's this app right now."

那时候那个应用确实火得不行。

And at that time, that app was blowing up.

疫情期间TikTok特别火，因为大家都在刷手机找点乐子打发时间。

TikTok was blowing up during COVID because everyone's on their phone looking for something to distract themselves.

我那时候自己都没装TikTok。

I didn't even have TikTok.

我下载了它，这样我就能帮我妈妈给她的学生们做视频了。

I downloaded it so I could help my mom to make videos for her students.

所以我下载了这个应用，和我妈妈一起创作了几个星期，我在TikTok上给我妈妈做课程。

So I download the app, and I created for a few weeks with my mom, I was making lessons on TikTok of my mom.

我帮她拍摄，拍摄并剪辑，因为我喜欢视频剪辑。

I was filming it for her, filming it and editing it, because I love video editing.

我喜欢拍摄和视频剪辑。

I love filming and video editing.

所以我非常乐意帮她。

So I was so down to help her.

我从小和鸡一起长大，所以我们用鸡蛋和鸡做了整个关于数数之类的课程。

I grew up with chickens, so we did this whole lesson about counting or whatever with eggs, with the chickens.

比如，“我们今天有多少个鸡蛋？”

Like, "How many eggs do we have today?"

诸如此类的事情。

Things like that.

我发这些视频的时候注意到一件事，顺便说一句，我一个粉丝都没有。

One thing I noticed when I was posting these videos, I have no followers, by the way.

一个都没有。

None.

零。

Zero.

但是这些视频却有几千的播放量。

Yet these videos were getting thousands of views.

我当时就想，哇，这个应用的算法真有意思。

And I thought to myself, "Wow, this app has a really interesting algorithm."

我马上就注意到了这个算法。

I noticed the algorithm right away.

你可以没有粉丝，但一个视频可能突然爆火，那可能就是一个转折点。

You could have no followers, and you could have a video blow up, and that could be a turning point.

所以我就想，好吧。

So I thought to myself, "All right.

我现在没有工作了。

I don't have a job anymore.

我也不上学了。

I'm no longer in school.

那我还能用这个做什么呢？

What could I do with this?"

我对TikTok一无所知。

And I knew nothing about TikTok.

所以我就想，好吧。

So I said, "All right.

让我做个转场视频，我看到时间线上有人这么玩。

Let me do a transition video," which I saw some people doing on the timeline.

他们做那种化妆转场，我就想，化妆我也会。

They were doing these makeup transitions, and I thought, "I can do makeup.

我大概能琢磨出怎么做转场视频。

I can probably figure out how to do a transition video."

现在你去看那个变装视频的话，真的惨不忍睹。

Now, if you go and watch the transition video, it's horrible.

真的非常非常糟糕。

It's really, really bad.

但我还是发了，而且那时候我正被痘痘困扰得很厉害。

But I did it, and at the time, I was struggling really bad with acne.

不知道为什么，我长了成人痘，所以到了20岁，我突然开始长严重的囊肿性痤疮。

For some reason, I got adult acne, so by the time I turned 20, I all of a sudden got this severe cystic acne.

所以我发那个变装视频的时候，先展示了我长痘的样子，然后展示了我化完妆后完美无瑕的样子。

So when I posted the transition video, I showed my acne, and then I showed this after where I had this flawless makeup on.

我觉得就是这一点立刻吸引了大家的注意。

And I think immediately that's what caught people's attention.

关于这个有两点。

Two things about that.

第一，我是一个愿意展示自己皮肤的人。

One, that I was a person willing to show my skin.

我愿意向全世界展示我的痘痘。

I was willing to show the world my acne.

而且，特别好笑的是，我写了一篇博客文章，讲那是我第一次向世界展示我的痘痘，因为我从来没有给任何人看过我的痘痘。

And also, it's so funny, I wrote a blog article about how that was the first time I showed the world my acne, because I had never shown anyone my acne.

就连认识我的人也不知道我有痘痘。

Not even people I knew, knew I had acne.

我会化妆来彻底掩盖它。

I would wear makeup to really disguise it.

我的化妆技术很好，好到没人会知道我有痘痘，因为我能遮住痘痘的凹凸不平，让皮肤看起来光滑。

I was pretty good at makeup to the point where no one would know I had acne because I could cover the texture of it and smooth the skin.

所以当我发布那个转变视频，人们看到我真的让痘痘消失了，我觉得大家对此非常好奇。

So when I posted the transition video, and people saw that I literally made this acne disappear, I think people got really curious about it.

然后我决定，"好吧。

And then I decided, "Okay.

我在看这个视频的评论，视频火了，尽管我没有粉丝，也没人知道我是谁。"

I'm reading the comments on this video, and the video's blowing up, even though I have no followers, and no one knows who I am."

我的Instagram账号大概只有800个粉丝，那真的不算什么。

My Instagram account probably had 800 followers or something like that, which is nothing.

那时候我根本没想当网红。

I was not trying to be an influencer at the time.

所以看到视频突然爆火，我觉得特别有意思。

So to have a video skyrocket like that, I thought was really interesting.

然后我就想，好吧，我可能得做个视频教大家一些技巧，因为我特别喜欢教学和技巧分享。

And I said, "Okay, I need to do a video maybe showing people technique," because I love education and technique.

于是我又录了一个视频，这次我在里面说话，说实话挺吓人的。

So I did another video, and this one I'm talking, which, scary.

但我还是开口了，教大家怎么遮痘痘，就是那个遮得很好的技巧。

But I was talking, and I showed people how to do that acne trick where I cover acne really well.

那个视频一发出去，立马就爆了，我从来没见过什么东西能火成这样。

That video, the minute I posted it, blew up like I've never seen anything blow up in my life.

简直太疯狂了。

It was crazy.

一天之内就有一千五百万次观看。

Fifteen million views within a day.

你想想看，对我来说这意味着什么。

Imagine that for me.

你想想看，对我来说这意味着什么。

Imagine that for me.

在这么多年努力想成为美妆博主之后。

After all those years trying to be a beauty influencer.

我相信你一定能想象那是什么感觉，简直太疯狂了。

I'm sure you can only imagine how that would feel It was crazy.

那天是什么让你决定分享自己真实的痘痘状况？

What made you want to share your real acne on that day?

你以前从没跟认识的人分享过。

You'd never shared it with people you knew.

你也从没在网上分享过。

You never shared it online.

有什么不同？

What was different?

为什么你觉得那件事那么重要？

Why did you feel that was so important?

嗯，我知道我想当美妆博主，我也知道我的皮肤是什么样子，而且我知道如果我要有一个公开的平台，我就得露脸。

Well, I knew I wanted to be a beauty influencer, and I knew what my skin looked like, and I knew that if I was going to have a public platform, I needed to show my face.

特别是如果你想做美妆相关的事情，你就得敢于展示素颜。

Especially if you're going to do something in beauty, you need to be open to having that bare skin.

而且我非常相信暴露疗法。

And I'm a big fan of exposure therapy.

我经常这么做，对我来说，那次就是暴露疗法。

I do it all the time, and for me, that was exposure therapy.

我当时也没想到会有很多人看到那个视频。

I also didn't think that a lot of people would see the video.

我以为也就几千个人看。

I figured, a couple thousand.

所以，那真是把暴露疗法做到了极致。

But, so that was exposure therapy to the max.

所以一旦大家都看到了我的痘痘，对我来说就不是问题了。

So once everybody saw my acne, it wasn't a problem for me.

我就能毫无压力地展示它了。

I was able to show it, no problem.

对，我猜这也帮到了很多人——

Yeah, I can imagine it helped a lot of people, too-

哦，是的

Oh, yeah

……那些同样被这个问题困扰的人，所以才会引起这么大的共鸣。

... who were struggling with the same thing, and that's why it had such a connection with people.

在那个视频里，我展示了一个技巧，还聊了产品，我展示的那些产品几个月内都卖光了。

In that video, I showed a technique and I talked about products, and the products I showed sold out for months.

所以大家也对那个技巧着了迷。

So people became obsessed with the technique, too.

哇。

Wow.

你私底下有没有人因为你的成功而困扰，或者对你的成功反应不一样？

Did anyone in your private life struggle with that success or react differently to that success at the time?

好，这是我最喜欢讲的故事之一。

Okay, so this is one of my favorite stories.

好。

Okay.

还记得我说过我父母可能有点怀疑吗？

So remember how I said my parents were maybe a little skeptical?

当那个视频爆红的时候，我说过，我父母都是非常努力工作的人，他们从小就给我灌输一种观念，就是你会做大事的，因为我看着他们做大事。

When I had that video blow up, like I said, I come from two really hardworking parents who ingrained in me this like, you're going to do big things mindset, because I watched them do big things.

所以当视频火了，我至少和其他美妆博主一样清楚你能有多成功。

So when the video went viral, and I knew at least as much as the other beauty YouTubers how successful you can be.

看着杰弗里·斯塔买下那栋2500万美元的豪宅之类的。

Watching Jeffree Star buying this $25 million mansion and things like that.

我看到了。

I would see that.

所以我知道美妆博主能有多成功，也知道那是我向往的生活。

So I knew what beauty influencers were capable of, and I knew that that was a life that I aspired to have.

谁不想在自己热爱的事情上取得成功呢？

Who wouldn't aspire to be successful in what they're passionate about?

所以当那个视频爆火的时候，我直接跑下楼，我爸妈正坐在沙发上看电视，我坐下来，把手机怼到我爸面前。

So when that video went viral, I literally ran downstairs, and my parents were watching TV on the couch, and I sat down, put the phone in my dad's face.

视频里，他就像在看播放量涨起来一样。

In this video, it's like he's watching the views act.

我一直在刷新，给他看播放量往上涨。

I'm refreshing, showing him the views going up.

然后我说：“爸，我就是想让你知道，你女儿要成为百万富翁了。”

And I said, "Dad, I just want to let you know that your daughter's going to be a millionaire."

我真的就这么跟他说的。

I literally said that to him.

当时也不知道这话会不会成真。

Not knowing if that was going to be true.

但我特别相信吸引力法则，我觉得只要你敢说出口，而且说得响亮，就一定能实现。

But I'm big on manifesting, and I think if you put something out there and you're loud about it, you can make it happen.

所以我就那么跟他讲了，他当时就说：“你净瞎扯。”

So I literally said that to him, and he was like, "You're full of shit."

哦，天哪。

Oh, wow.

他说：“不不不，这怎么可能？

He was like, "No, no, no. How's that even possible?

你怎么能靠网上视频赚钱？”

How can you make money doing internet videos?"

我就说：“我会证明给你看。

And I said, "I'm going to show you.

等着瞧吧。”

Just wait."

他什么时候开始相信你的？

When did he start to believe you?

所以当那个时刻到来时，我就变成了一个机器，因为我相信要抓住时机。

So once that moment happened, I became a machine because I believe in seizing the moment.

所以走红很容易。

So it's easy to have a viral moment.

当走红的时刻到来，砰，就是那样。

When the viral moment happens, boom, that's it.

接下来你做什么？

What do you do next?

这就是问题所在。

That's the question.

你如何从中建立起一些东西？

How do you build something out of this?

而且我非常认真地对待这件事，因为幸运的是，我也有那种商业头脑。

And I took that very seriously because thankfully, I do have that business mindset, too.

而这正是很多人缺少的，对吧？

And that's what a lot of people lack, right?

他们有能力创作内容，但不知道怎么把它变成一门生意。

They have the ability to create the content, but they don't know how to make it a business.

我知道怎么把它变成生意。

I knew how to make it a business.

所以当那个视频火了之后，我就说，"好。

So when that video went viral, I said, "Okay.

我已经把自己推出去了。

I've put myself out there.

现在我得拼命干。"

Now I need to grind."

所以我最后每天至少发三个视频，一天都不落。

So I ended up posting every single day, a minimum of three videos a day.

每条视频我都会尝试不同的内容，看看观众想看什么。

And each video, I would do something different to see what my audience wanted to see.

所以不管是化妆教程、生活视频、开箱视频还是Vlog，我开始尝试各种不同的内容，看看什么能吸引大家的注意。

So whether it's a makeup tutorial, a lifestyle video, a haul, a vlog, I began doing all kinds of different things to see what caught the attention of people.

我发现，他们想看的不是内容，而是我本人。

What I discovered was it wasn't the content they wanted to see, it was me.

他们不在乎视频的主题是什么。

They didn't care what the topic of the video was.

他们就是喜欢我的个性。

They just liked my personality.

他们喜欢我——

They liked who I-

太棒了。

That's amazing

……他们喜欢的是我这个人。

... they liked who I was.

所以我之所以感激这一点，是因为，就像我说的，从小看那些美妆博主，我之所以看他们，是因为我觉得他们跟我有共鸣。

So the reason I appreciate that is because, like I said, growing up watching all these beauty YouTubers, the reason I did that was because it was people I felt I could relate to.

是那些和我有共同点的人。

It was people I had something in common with.

我很难找到和我有共同点的人。

I really struggled to find people that I had something in common with.

所以看这些美妆博主让我感觉不那么孤单，我特别喜欢那种共鸣感。

So watching these beauty influencers made me feel a lot less alone, and I just loved that relatability.

所以当我走红后，看到评论区有人说：‘哇，我要关注你。’

So when I went viral and I saw people in my comment section saying, "Wow," like, "I'm following you.

‘我喜欢这个。’

I love this.

‘我喜欢你的视频。’我就想：‘哇，不知道他们是不是也有同样的感觉。’

I love your videos," I thought, "Wow, I wonder if they feel the same way.

我想知道在家看视频的人会不会想：‘我想每天看她的视频，因为我感同身受。’

I wonder if the people at home watching this think, 'I want to watch her videos every day because I relate.

‘我感受到了什么。’

I feel something.

我觉得和她有某种联系，即使我不认识她。

I feel a connection to her, even though I don't know her.'"

而且人们见到我时经常对我说这样的话。

And people say that to me all the time when they come up to me.

“我不认识你，但我觉得和你很亲近。”

"I don't know you, but I feel like I connect to you."

这让我非常感激，因为我完全理解那种感觉。

And that's something I really appreciated because I know exactly how that feels.

那真是一种奇妙的感觉。

It is such an incredible feeling.

我也有过这样的经历，人们走过来对我说：“我觉得我认识你——”

I've had that too, where people come up to me and be like, "I feel like I know you-

对

Yes

……因为我听你的节目。”

... because I listen to you."

我觉得那一定是一种很特别的感觉，人们就是被你的个性、你的能量、你的——

And I feel like it must have been a pretty remarkable feeling that people were just gravitating towards you, as in your personality, your energy, your-

——你给人的那种感觉所吸引。

... the way you came across.

然后大家就都着迷了。

And people got fixated.

当然，当你有了这些，再加上你达到的那种成功规模，事情就开始变得像——你自己也说过——你成了一个有点争议的人物，你说什么，人们都会上瘾，紧紧抓住不放。

And of course, when you have that and you have the level of scale of success you've had, it starts to also be like, you've said it in your own words, it's like, oh, you become somewhat of a controversial figure where everything you say, people get addicted to and they latch onto it.

然后这就成了大家讨论的话题。

And then it becomes a talking point.

这本身就挺有意思的，你说什么都会成为别人谈论的内容。

That's pretty fascinating in and of itself, that anything you say becomes something other people talk about.

卡戴珊家族就有这种效应，比如——

The Kardashians have that effect, where-

——金说的任何话——

... anything Kim says-

……每个人都在讨论——

... everyone is discussing-

……大家对这件事的看法。

... what people feel about it.

而你说点什么，网上很多人，讨论你的帖子一页又一页，大家都在……聊你。

And when you say something, a lot of people on the internet, there's pages and pages of discussion of everyone- ... talking about you.

跟我说说那是什么感觉，你觉得为什么偏偏是你，作为一个人物，会引发所有这些反应？

Talk to me about how that feels, and why do you think you specifically, as a personality, had all of this reaction that came from you?

嗯，我永远不会忘记我被“取消”的第一天。

Well, I'll never forget the first day I was canceled.

被“取消”。

Canceled.

一次小规模的“取消”。

A minor cancellation.

是因为滤镜的指控，我在这里直说，我不用滤镜，但我经常被指控用滤镜。所以，有人做了个视频说我用滤镜，这个视频就爆了。

It was over filter accusations, which I will say it here straight out, I don't use filters, but I get accused of it a lot So, someone made a video saying I use filters, and this video blew up.

而且，我以前从来没有经历过这种程度的仇恨。

And, I had not experienced this level of hate before.

我记得我刚签了一个经纪人，大概一周前才签的，我打电话给她，哭得停不下来。

And I remember I had just gotten a manager, I had signed with her like the week before, and I called her just crying and crying and crying.

我记得，不知道你有没有这种感觉，有时候我压力太大、太焦虑的时候，会想吐。

And I remember, I don't know if you experience this, but sometimes when I become so overwhelmed and so anxious, I want to throw up.

所以当时我就觉得自己快要吐了。

So I felt like I was going to throw up.

我浑身发抖，一直在哭，真的很难受。

I'm shaking, I'm crying, and it was really difficult.

后来我又经历了几次被抵制，慢慢就明白了，这其实就是这个职业的一部分。

And then I went through other cancellations over time, and I learned that it's kind of just the role.

这是随之而来的。

It comes with it.

这是成长的一部分。

It comes with growth.

说实话，我反而学会了去感激这些，虽然说起来很奇怪，但你确实得感激它们。

And if anything, I've kind of learned to appreciate it, which is really strange to say, but you have to appreciate it.

然后我的经纪人说：“Mikayla，你不能变得麻木。

And my manager said, "Mikayla, you can't become numb.

这些会让你麻木的。

This is going to make you numb.

我看得出来你在把自己和这些仇恨隔离开来，但我看到你正在变得麻木。”

I see that you're shutting yourself off from all of this hate, but I see you becoming numb."

我也不喜欢那样。

And I didn't like that either.

所以就像我说的，你得对自己有信心。

So you kind of have to become confident in yourself, like I said.

如果你真的对自己有信心，当我看到那些仇恨视频时，我知道自己是谁。

If you're really confident in yourself, when I'm seeing all these hate videos, I know who I am.

我知道自己的为人。

I know my character.

我知道网上看到的那些不是真的。

I know that what I see online isn't true.

所以这就是为什么它不像以前那样影响我了，因为到了某个程度，你根本无能为力。

So that's why it doesn't affect me like it used to, because at a certain point, there's nothing you can do about it.

你根本无能为力。

There's nothing you can do about it.

这是不可避免的——

It comes with the territory-

……作为行业顶尖人物的一部分。我最近跟很多人聊过这种经历，我觉得你越接近行业前1%——

... of being as-- I've been saying to a lot of people recently when we're talking about this experience of, I feel the closer you get to the top 1% in your industry-

……就越有可能有50%的人对你有看法。

... the more likely it is that 50% of people have an opinion about you.

而且你在各个领域都能看到这种情况，比如世界上最顶尖的运动员，人们对他们的看法也是五五开。

And you see that across the board, like the biggest athletes in the world, there's a 50/50 divide on how people feel about them.

即使是世界上最顶尖的音乐人，人们对他们的看法也是五五开——

Even the biggest musicians in the world, there's a 50/50 divide on-

……你是喜欢他们还是讨厌他们？

... do you love or hate them?

就像马麦酱一样，对吧？

It's like Marmite, right?

就是那种人们又爱又恨的关系。

Like that love or hate relationships people have.

所以越接近顶尖1%，就越可能有一半人喜欢你、一半人讨厌你，想想还挺有意思的。

So the closer you get to the top 1%, the more likely you have a 50% love or hate relationship, which is fascinating to think about.

这也挺有意思的，因为这种关系太像追星了，对吧？

It's also interesting because it is so parasocial, right?

而且我确实遇到过这样的情况：那些在网上公开骂我的人，我当面见到他们时，他们反而改变了看法。

And I've had experiences actually where the people who have publicly hated on me, I meet them in person, and they change their mind.

他们改变了看法。

They change their mind.

有个女孩走过来对我说：“嘿，你把我拉黑了，因为我做过一个骂你的视频。”

One girl came up to me and said, "Hey, you blocked me because I made a hate video about you."

她当面直接跟我说：‘我错了，对不起，我想让你把我解封。’

And she said straight up to my face , "I was wrong and I'm sorry, and I want you to unblock me."

我说：‘好吧。

I said, "Okay.

我很感激你承认你之前看到和读到的不一定是真的，我会把你解封的。’

I appreciate that you're acknowledging that maybe what you saw and read wasn't true, and I'll unblock you."

所以很多时候，那些话其实并没有那么重的分量，这真的很有意思。

So it's really interesting how a lot of times there's not as much weight to what's being said.

不过让我觉得特别有意思的是，人们对别人的审视程度。

It's fascinating to me, though, the level of scrutiny that people have.

我记得2023年有个欧莱雅的视频——

I think there was a video in 2023 with L'Oreal-

——是关于你的睫毛的。

... and it was all about with your lashes.

我当时就想，这居然能引起这么大的争论。

And I'm like, there was such a debate about this.

我当时看到那个，读到相关报道的时候，我就想，天哪，这居然能引起这么大的反应。

And I'm like- ... when I first saw that and I read about it, I was like, huh, I can't believe this elicited such a-

哦，对。

Oh, yeah

……巨大的反响。

... massive reaction.

当时每本杂志都在报道。

It was in every magazine.

所有人——

Everyone-

……都在讨论这件事。

... was talking about it.

那真是一场爆炸性的话题，没错。

It was an explosive conversation, yeah.

跟我聊聊那个时刻吧。

Talk to me about that moment.

说实话，那个时刻对我一点影响都没有，因为几个月前我被骂得更惨——

Truthfully, that moment didn't affect me at all because I was canceled worse a few months prior-

哦

Oh

……就是因为我那句名言，“试着当一天网红吧。”

... for my phrase I'm known for saying, "Try being an influencer for a day."

那句话完全被断章取义了。

Which was completely taken out of context.

有人就评论说，“试试朝九晚五的工作吧。”

Someone basically commented, "Try getting a nine to five."

然后我发了个回应视频，说“我今天工作到5点19分。”

And I made a response video saying, "I worked until 5:19 today."

接着我讲了当网红要面对的各种事情，最后我说，“试着当一天网红吧。”

And then I talked about all the things that come with being an influencer, and I said, "Try being an influencer for a day."

我当时就知道自己说的话不对，而且我其实在发出去几秒钟内就把那个视频删了。

Now, I knew in that moment that what I said was wrong, and I actually deleted that video within seconds of posting it.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

但有人立刻保存了它，直到几年后才火起来。

But someone saved it right away, and it didn't blow up until years later.

我其实是在做网红的第一年就拍了那个视频，说了“试试当一天网红”这句话。

I actually made that video where I said, "Try being an influencer for a day," the first year of me being an influencer.

那根本不是最近的事。

It was not anywhere, any recent.

那是我刚开始摸索怎么做网红时说的话。

It was something I said early on when I was trying to figure out how to be an influencer.

我现在还认同这句话吗？

Do I agree with the statement anymore?

不认同。而且我觉得欧莱雅那件事对我的影响没那么大，因为“试试当一天网红”那件事对我的打击更重。

No. And I don't think the L'Oreal situation affected me as much because the try being an influencer situation hit me heavier.

所以当欧莱雅那件事发生时，我已经准备好了。

So when the L'Oreal one happened, I was already prepared for that moment.

这让我提前有了准备，我就继续往前走了。

It prepped me for it, and I kind of just kept it moving.

我很欣赏你说的，在这些时刻要记住自己是谁。

I appreciate what you're saying about remembering who you are at these moments.

因为那也很难。

Because that's hard as well.

因为你看起来是个真诚、敏感的人。

Because you seem like a genuine, sensitive human being.

非常敏感。

Very sensitive.

而且就像你读到那些东西的时候，我自己也会这样，当我读到关于我的负面评论时，我也会开始相信那些话。

And it's like when you read things, and I do this too, when I read things about me that are negative, I can start to believe them about myself as well.

因为我可以很敏感、很脆弱，容易受到影响，然后开始在自己身上找那些缺点，心想：“哦，也许我真的是那样？”

Because I can be sensitive and vulnerable and open up to that, and start to look for those things within myself and be like, "Oh, maybe, am I?"

你可能会因此被彻底击垮。

And you can be really broken open in that way.

跟我说说你都经历了些什么。

Talk to me about what you've had to do.

但你经理的建议真的很棒。

But your manager's advice was great.

你还做了哪些事情来记住自己是谁，坚持自我，以及为什么做这件事？

What else have you had to do to remember who you are and hold onto who you are and why you do this?

嗯，我以前有个习惯，晚上躺在床上刷手机，看那些恶评。

Well, one thing I used to do was at night in bed, I would scroll, and I'm reading all of the hate comments.

看到那些充满恶意的视频，我每天晚上都特别难过地入睡。

I'm seeing all of the hateful videos, and I would go to bed really upset every night.

然后早上醒来还是很难过，这几乎控制了我的一天。

And then I would wake up feeling upset, and it would kind of rule my days.

所以我开始做的一件事是，晚上一进卧室，就把手机放一边。

So one thing I began doing is at night, the minute I walk in my bedroom, the phone is away.

这对我来说改变很大，晚上我能真正放松下来。

That has made a huge difference for me, and I'm present at night.

我不再刷手机了。

I'm not scrolling.

晚上我也不再刷那些负面内容了。

I don't doom scroll at night.

我还做了很多小事来保护自己在网上的安全。

I also have done a lot of minor things to protect myself online.

告诉你个有趣的事，你可以屏蔽TikTok上的某些词。

Fun fact, if you block, you can block words on TikTok.

所以我屏蔽了自己的名字，这样关于我的视频就不会出现，我甚至都看不到它们，因为我屏蔽了自己的名字。

So I blocked my name, and that way, videos about me don't come up I don't even see them because I blocked my own name.

哇。

Wow.

但我这么做是为了保护自己。

But I did it to protect myself.

当然，我可能错过了一些关于我的正面视频，但我真的必须这么做，因为有一段时间那些内容对我影响特别大。

Obviously, I'm probably missing out on maybe nice videos about me, but I just really had to do that because there was a time where it was getting to me really, really bad.