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很多研究表明，我们在零到五岁期间是被爱着还是缺乏关爱，会影响我们接下来十五、二十甚至五十年的生活。哇。
A lot of studies show that how we were loved or unloved between the ages of zero to five impact the next fifteen, twenty five, fifty years of our life Wow.
以及我们如何爱自己，以及如何爱别人。
And how we give love to ourselves and how we give love to others.
所以我在想，你有没有一段关于家人的核心记忆或童年经历，能体现你现在对他们的感觉，或者让你一直和他们保持紧密联系？
And so I was thinking, do you have a core memory or an experience with your family from childhood that kind of embodies the feeling you have about them now or that keeps you tied close
跟他们保持紧密联系？
to them?
我觉得与其说是记忆，不如说是一种感觉。我和我所有的兄弟都有这种感觉，因为我们的爸爸是个喜剧演员，他的工作总是在我们睡觉之后才开始。
I'd say sort of more than a memory is just a feeling that we I can say all of my brothers and I had was that because our dad's a comedian, his job only ever existed once we had gone to bed.
而且我们的妈妈在家办公。
And our mom worked from home.
她是一名摄影师。
She was a photographer.
所以对我们这些孩子来说，父母好像并不怎么上班。
So to us as kids, our parents didn't really work.
他们总是在家。
They just were always home.
所以我们有一个很棒的基础，不管一天中的什么时候，爸爸或妈妈总有一个在家，我们觉得家庭非常稳固，这也是为什么我有一个梦想，有一天有了孩子，把工作放下，就作为一个爸爸陪在他们身边。
So we had this amazing foundation where no matter any time of the day, either mom or dad would be at the house, And we felt so kind of solid as a family, which is why, like, I kind of have this dream of one day having kids and putting my work to bed and just kind of being there as a dad.
因为我真的很敬佩我爸爸在身边的样子。
Because I really admire how my dad was around.
你知道，当喜剧演员是一个非常非常不稳定的工作。
You know, being a comedian is a very, very volatile job.
高潮和低谷都非常极端，但作为孩子，我们从未看到过这些。
The highs and lows are so extreme, and as kids, we never saw that.
我看到的爸爸永远是那个开心的爸爸，我们去公园吧。
The only version of my dad I ever saw was the happy dad, let's go to the park.
我们以前玩一个叫“高尔夫进球”的游戏，我们会去公园。
We used to play this game called golf goals where we would go down to the park.
那里有一个大的蓝色金属球门，我们每天都会把高尔夫球打进那个球门，每次球进他就给我们10便士，这差不多就是我们打高尔夫的基础之类的。
There's like this big blue metal goal, and we would just fire golf balls into that goal every day, and he would give us 10 p every time a ball went in the goal, and that was kind of the foundation of our golf and all that sort of stuff.
所以对我来说，比核心记忆更重要的，是那种在家庭中始终感到连接和安全的感觉。
So for me, broader than a core memory was the idea of always feeling connected and safe within my family unit.
我觉得这很大程度上是因为我爸妈一直是非常稳固的团队，他们总是在我们身边。
And I think a large portion of that is that my mom and dad have always been such a solid team, and they've always been there for us.
对。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
那随着你们长大，他们有没有开始跟你们分享一些他们当时经历的困难？那些他们小时候显然没让你们看到的困难。
Have they as you've grown older, have they kind of opened up about some of the challenges that they were going through that they obviously didn't show you and your family when you were kids?
因为我能想象，我们总是谈论这个，对吧，当喜剧演员非常难，因为你让其他所有人笑。
Because I can imagine always talk about this, right, like being a comedian is extremely difficult because you're making everyone else laugh.
同时，这是一个职业道路，就像你说的，完全不稳定。
At the same time, it's it's a career path that, like you said, is completely volatile.
当然。
Sure.
随着时间推移，他们有没有跟你聊过这些？
Have have they opened up as time's gone on?
当你从一直看到父母很开心，到突然发现，哦等等，原来还有这么多别的事情在发生，那种感觉是怎样的？
And how has that felt when you've gone from, like, seeing your parents always been happy to being like, oh wait, there was all this other stuff going on.
他们确实聊过。
Absolutely they have.
而且有时候甚至不是他们告诉我们的。
And it's not even sometimes thing that they've told us.
而是我们长大后自己慢慢意识到的。
It's just things that we've grown up to recognize.
小时候，你不会去想，我妈妈现在感觉怎么样？
As a young kid, you know, you're not looking to how's my mom feeling?
我爸爸现在感觉怎么样？
How's my dad feeling?
现在长大了，这些就成了我关心的事情。
And now as an older person, you know, those are things I care about.
我想打电话给我妈，因为我知道这会让她开心。
I want to call my mom because I know it will brighten her day.
所以这大概也是成长的一部分吧。
So that's all part of growing up, I guess.
所以看到我爸的工作对他或者对我妈的影响，我们都慢慢接受了，而且他处理得非常好。
So seeing the way in which my dad's job affects him or my dad's job affects my mom is something we've all sort of come to terms with, and he's amazing at it.
其实说实话，我说的是影响。
I mean, to be honest, I say effect.
实际上对谁都没有真正的影响。
It doesn't really affect anyone.
他处理得太好了，这也是我觉得自己现在这样的很大一部分原因。
He's so good at handling it, which is a lot of why I feel like I am the way I am.
比如，《拥挤的房间》上映后，影评人非常讨厌它。
For example, the crowded rooms come out, the critics absolutely hated it.
他们觉得这是他们看过的最差的东西，但我并不怎么难过。
They thought it was the worst thing they've ever seen, and it doesn't really upset me.
我觉得我之所以对那件事感觉没那么强烈，很大程度上是因为我爸。他能上台演出，如果演砸了，他就拍拍肩膀，然后直接投入下一个工作。
And I think a large part of my feeling towards that has come from my dad being able to do a gig, the gig not going well, him brushing it off his shoulder, and just right onto the next one.
对。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
而且，首先，我也想提一下这个。
And and first of all, I wanna point that out as well.
我一直在看《拥挤的房间》。
So I've been watching The Crowded Room.
是的。
Right.
我和我老婆一起在看，我们其实挺喜欢的。
And me and my wife have been watching it together, and we're actually really enjoying it.
那很好。
Good.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我们确实很喜欢，因为我喜欢那种带有悬疑元素的剧，对。
So we're actually loving it because I love a show that has mystery Sure.
它总想让我去解开谜团，让我好好琢磨一下剧情。
That's trying to like get me to figure it out and get me to think about it.
我有时候会有点困惑，但我就爱看这种类型的。
I'm kind of confused, and I love stuff like that.
我是克里斯托弗·诺兰的超级粉丝。
I'm a massive Christopher Nolan fan.
对，确实是这样。
Yeah, absolutely.
所以我最喜欢的电影都是诺兰拍的，我爱它们的原因是我根本看不懂剧情。
So all my favorite movies are Nolan movies, and the reason why I love them is because I have no idea what's going on.
没错。
Sure.
就是
That's
得自己琢磨出来。
what gotta figure it out.
而且你得自己琢磨出来。
And you gotta figure it out.
我喜欢解谜，也喜欢密室逃脱，喜欢任何让我
And love puzzles, and I love escape rooms, and I love anything that I
我也喜欢密室逃脱。
love an escape room.
对。
Yeah.
我喜欢任何让我思考‘这到底是怎么回事，为什么我想不明白’的东西。
I love anything that's got me thinking, what is going on here, and why can't I figure it out?
朋友，你知道你应该看什么吗？
Mate, do you know what you should watch?
说实话，我压力大或者感觉过度兴奋的时候，就会看这个来助眠。
I I admittedly watch it to go to sleep if I'm ever feeling stressed or, like, overstimulated.
我看的是一个叫克里斯·拉姆齐的人。
I watch this guy called Chris Ramsey.
他算是YouTube上的一个博主。
He he's like a YouTube guy.
他是个魔术师，但我只看他解谜。
He's a magician, but I just watch him solve puzzles.
他会买那些日本手工制作的谜题盒子。
He, like, buys these Japanese, like, handcrafted puzzle boxes.
哇。
Wow.
然后他就一直解，我也开始买这些盒子了。
And he just solves them, and I've started buying them.
盒子寄到家里，你坐下来花四个小时，放下又拿起，试着解开这个谜题，真的很棒。
And they come to the house, and you sit down for four hours, put it down, pick it up, and try and solve this puzzle, and it's amazing.
那你玩这些玩得好吗？
Have you are you any good at them?
不好。
No.
我玩得可差了，老兄。
I'm terrible at them, mate.
我真的是特别差。
I'm I'm absolutely terrible.
我有个魔方，从大概11岁起就一直没解开过。
I've had an unsolved Rubik's cube since I was, like, 11.
但就是这样，所以我爱看他的视频，因为木头的声音有种特别的吸引力。
But I but, yeah, so I watch his videos because there's just something about, like, the sound of the wood.
我是做木匠的，所以我特别喜欢那种工艺感之类的东西。
I'm a carpenter, so I love, like, craftsmanship and that sort of stuff.
所以我特别欣赏这些部件拼在一起的方式。
So I love the way that these pieces are put together.
所以看他解谜，我觉得特别放松。
So watching him solve the puzzles, I find so relaxing.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得对我们很多人来说，你知道，收到差评、别人的看法、别人议论我们，不管是什么，不管我们处在什么层次，都会影响到我们。
I think for so many of us, you know, getting bad reviews, perceptions, people talking about us, whatever that may be, whatever scale we live at can actually affect us.
当然。
Sure.
你说看到你爸爸，让他看到你爸爸 shrug it off，继续前行，这真的帮了他。
And you saying that actually seeing your dad, letting him, seeing him shrug it off and seeing him move on actually really helped him.
你觉得你现在在这方面已经更有技巧了，还是说这对你来说是很自然的事情？
Do you think that you've been able to create a bit more of a skill around that now or is it something that happens naturally for you?
因为我猜有很多人在听在看，他们会说，汤姆，你能在你的规模和水平上做到这一点真是太棒了，但是你知道，我仍然会受到影响，或者当我的朋友说些什么时，我真的很难受。
Because I'm guessing that there's lot people who are listening and watching going, Tom, that's pretty amazing that you can do that at your scale and your level, but you know, I'm still affected by that or I really struggle when my mate says something.
比如，我听到的最多的是，大多数人不敢追求梦想，是因为害怕朋友会说什么，更不用说……
Like, know the number one thing I hear is like, most people don't chase their dreams because they're scared of what their mates will say, let alone what
全世界会怎么说。
the world will What the
全世界会怎么说。
world will say.
对。
Yeah.
就像我昨晚，我昨晚飞回来的时候，我跟你说过的。
Like I had this late, I was flying back last night as I was telling you.
所以我昨晚从华盛顿飞伦敦的飞机上，那个空姐，她人特别好，叫珍妮特。
So I was on a plane from DC to London last night and the air hostess, she was wonderful, her name was Jeanette.
她对我说，她说，杰，我真的很想开一个YouTube频道，但是你知道，你得屏蔽掉你朋友会说的话，对吧？
She said to me, she was like, Jay, I really wanna start a YouTube channel, but you know, you just gotta block out what your friends are gonna say, right?
她就是在担心这个。
And she was just worried about it.
所以这确实是很真实的事情。
So that it's a very real thing.
那你是不是已经摸索出一点门道了，还是说因为看你爸爸做，所以自然而然就上手了？
So I guess have you kind of figured out a little formula for it or is it just natural because you saw your dad and it's become easier that way?
我觉得两者都有吧。
I think it's a little bit of both, really.
你知道，这种事情肯定是越做越好的。
You know, I think it's something you definitely get better at.
我很幸运，有一群特别铁的朋友。
I'm really lucky that I have an incredibly strong group of friends.
比如，我最好的哥们儿之一刚才打电话给我，说他已经看了第五集，他说他知道剧情走向，但还是看得津津有味。
Like, one of my best mates just called me up earlier to say he'd seen the fifth episode, and he's like, I know what happens in the show, and I'm still loving it.
跟我一起看的人完全不知道接下来会发生什么，但他们已经迫不及待想看下一集了。
The people I'm watching it with have no idea what's going on, but they can't wait for the next one.
对。
Yeah.
所以，你知道，我非常非常看重那些我在乎的人的看法。
So, you know, I really, really hold high the opinions of people that I really care about.
我也很幸运，有一群非常支持我的粉丝。
I'm also really lucky to have an amazing group of fans who are so supportive.
他们特别死忠。
They are diehard.
他们从第一天就在那里，这让我感觉特别好。
They are there day one, and that makes me feel really good.
但我确实觉得，
But I I do think a
我人生中的很多教训都来自我爸爸，以及他处理事情的方式，他过去做得不太好的地方，也传给了我。
lot of my lessons in life have come from my dad and the ways that he can deal with things, things that he hasn't done very well in the past that he's passed on to me.
我有点，我遵循一个原则，其实我不确定克里斯蒂安·贝尔是不是真的说过，但我很喜欢克里斯蒂安·贝
And I sort of, I live by this really I don't actually know if Christian Bale did say this, but about I love Christian
尔。
Bale.
我喜欢克里斯蒂安·贝尔。
I love Christian Bale.
他说过这句话。
He said it.
对。
Yeah.
确实说过。
Said it.
他，对。
He Yeah.
但我觉得那句话是：如果你对我有意见，就发短信给我；如果你没有我的号码，那你还没那么了解我，不足以对我有意见。
But I think the quote is, if you have a problem with me, text me, and if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.
这句话说得太好了。
That is so good.
我觉得这真是一个很好的建议，因为作为名人，你生活在舞台上，生活在公众视野里，你展现的是你想让大家看到的那一面。
And I think that that is such a great piece of advice because as a celebrity, you live on this stage, you live out there, you kind of give out a version of yourself that you want people to see.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那可能就是别人对你产生意见或喜欢你的那一面。
And that can be the version of yourself that they can have a problem with or they can love.
而且，你知道，我觉得我在公众面前还是挺真实的，但我特别在乎家人的看法、朋友的看法，还有我当地社区里那些人的看法。
And there is a, you know, I feel like I'm quite authentic in my public persona, but I just try to really care about what my family thinks, what my friends think, what the people in my local community think.
我住在金斯顿。
I live in Kingston.
那里每个人我都认识。
I know everyone that lives there.
我走不了几步就会碰到我妈妈的某个朋友。
I can't walk five feet without bumping into one of my mom's friends.
所以对。
So yeah.
所以这是我一直在努力的事情。
So it's something I've been working on.
我尽量不让那些东西影响我。
I try my best to not let that stuff affect me.
确实会。
It does.
对，当然。
Yeah, of course.
我不是那种冷血的人。
I'm not cold hearted or anything like that.
确实会影响到我，但我尽量往前看，专注于积极的一面。
It does affect me, but I just try to move on and focus on the positives.
对，完全同意。
Yeah, absolutely.
绝对。
Absolutely.
你有没有见过你爸爸处理事情，让你觉得‘哇，太厉害了’？
What was a Did you ever see your dad deal with everything and you thought, wow, that was incredible?
有没有什么具体的事情让你记得，看到他解决某个问题，让你觉得‘哇，这真的让我印象深刻’，哪怕事后想想其实是很小的事？
Like was there anything specific that you remember that like seeing him like tackle something and you thought, wow, that really impressed me, even if it was something really small in hindsight?
我觉得我最敬佩我爸爸的一点就是他的韧性。
I think the thing I admire most about my dad is his resilience.
你知道，他早年事业非常成功，但后来事业遇到了瓶颈，也经历了不少困难，但他从来没有停下过。
You know, he's someone who has had an incredibly successful career in his earlier life, and then later in life, his career sort of plateaued and he struggled, and he's never stopped.
他从来没有放弃过。
He's never given up.
他到现在还在到处演出。
He's still gigging to this day.
他还在写书。
He's still writing books.
他有一个赞助人。
He has a patron.
他还有一个播客。
He has a podcast.
他一直在努力打拼，想要达到自己的目标。
He's constantly grafting to get to where he wants to be.
我觉得小时候看着爸爸一直拼命努力，想把自己最好的一面展现出来，这对我来说，真的极大地激励了我的工作态度。
And I think being a young kid and seeing your dad continually working as hard as he can to kind of put his best foot forward, for me, has been a huge drive for my work ethic.
我要么全力以赴，要么干脆不做。
I'll give it a 100% or I'll give it nothing.
我觉得这很大程度上是受我爸爸的影响，看着他怎么应对那些困难。
And I think a lot of that has come from my dad and seeing him deal with that.
我爸爸有趣的地方在于，你提到演出搞砸了。
The funny thing about my dad is you talk about doing a bad gig.
我大概看过他二十次演出。
I must have seen him 20 times.
我从来没见他搞砸过。
I've never seen him do a bad gig.
他好像总能发挥得特别出色，但也许只是因为我们在台下看。
He always seems to absolutely rip it, but maybe that's just because we're in the audience.
但他，不过，没有。
But he but no.
我欠我爸很多，很多教诲都是他告诉我的，还有很多是我亲眼看着他做的。
I I owe a lot to my dad, and a lot of the teachings are things he's told me and things I've just witnessed him do.
对。
Yeah.
那有没有哪次你看到的反馈、传闻或者什么，真的影响到了你，让你真的想了想，或者至少让你停下来想，天哪，我努力想看到积极的一面，但这个太难了。
And was there ever a piece of feedback or a rumor or something you saw that did affect you where you actually thought or at least made you stop and go, god, I'm trying to see the positives, but this one's tough.
就像，这个真的让我不得不停下来好好想想。
Like like, this actually made me have to pause and figure it out.
有件事真的让我很难过，我当时在纽约。
Something that did really upset me, I was in New York.
我在拍《拥挤的房间》，那段时间工作特别难熬，因为太耗人了，每天都要调动那么大的情绪。
I was shooting the crowning crowded room, and I was having a really hard time with the job just because of how taxing it was, the emotional capacity that I was having to get to every day.
我决定把Instagram删了，因为我觉得自己太沉迷于那种虚假的生活版本了，它简直要控制我了。
And I decided to delete my Instagram because I just felt like I was so addicted to this kind of false version of my life that it was just taking over.
我在片场工作，然后回到椅子上坐下，就一直刷、刷、刷、刷、刷。
I would be on set working, I'd come and sit in my chair and just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.
这已经成了一个问题。
And it was becoming a problem.
我当时就是沉迷其中，特别想知道别人在说什么，怎么看我。
I was just obsessed with it, and I was obsessed to find out what people were saying and how people, what they thought about me.
所以我决定发个声明，虽然我们不得不这么做，就说我要暂时离开社交媒体。
So I decided to make an announcement, which unfortunately we have to do, and say that I'm taking a break from social media.
我试着把话说得漂亮点，就说我离开社交媒体是因为我觉得这对我的心理健康有好处。
And I and I tried to position myself and say like, I'm taking a break from social media because I feel like my mental health will benefit from it.
但真正让我难过的是，媒体抓住了这一点，试图把我描绘成精神崩溃的样子。
And the thing that really upset me is the press ran with that, and they tried to make out that I was having this mental breakdown.
让我生气的是，就算我真的精神崩溃了，那也不是你们该报道的事。
And what upset me was if I was having a mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on.
他们把故事带偏了，又给心理健康抹上了负面的色彩。
They they they took the story in the wrong direction, and they try they painted again this negative light on mental health.
而不是说，哦，他这么做是为了……
Rather than saying, oh, he's doing it.
他这么做没问题，所以我们也应该觉得这样做是可以的。
It's okay that he's doing it, so we should all feel okay to do it too.
他们当时说，哦，你看。
They were saying, oh, look.
他并不是你以为的那个永远快乐无忧的完美小孩。
He's not the perfect happy go lucky kid you think he is.
他在纽约精神崩溃了。
He's having a nervous breakdown in New York.
我觉得这种报道方式真的很不公平，我是说，这再次把那些寻求帮助的人描绘成了负面的形象，你懂我的意思吧。
And I think that that was a really unfair line of journalism, let's say, because I just think it, again, kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong light, if you know what I mean.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
完全同意。
Absolutely.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
听起来你好像是在提前预防，心想我这么做是为了避免走向那个方向。
It almost sounds like you were actually preemptively going, I'm doing this so that I don't go in that direction.
完全同意。
Totally.
至少我不是在试图把你的话强加给你，但这是
At least I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it's
就像，完全正确。
like Absolutely.
这几乎就像我在主动意识到我可能会陷入某种境地，当然。
It's almost like I'm proactively seeing that I could end up in a position where Sure.
我可能会崩溃。
I might have a breakdown.
我不想处于那种境地，所以我负责任地说，各位，我要休息一下，对。
I don't wanna be in that position, and so I'm responsibly saying, guys, I'm taking a break Right.
为了保护自己。
In order to protect myself.
百分之百同意。
A 100%.
是的。
Yeah.
这很有道理，而且说实话，挺让人佩服的。
Which makes a lot of sense and actually is quite admirable again.
没错。
Totally.
而这正是我们
And that's kind of what
想要传达的核心信息。
the message of the show is about.
我们的节目主旨就是：寻求帮助是一件值得庆祝的事。
Like, the the message of our show is that asking for help should be something that we celebrate.
对。
Yeah.
如果你正在挣扎，如果你需要帮助，如果你感觉不好，你醒来后去找朋友、治疗师、老师、员工或同事说，我真的很难受，我需要帮助，那我们应该给你鼓掌。
If you're struggling, if you need help, if you feel bad and you wake up and you go to a friend, a therapist, a teacher, an employee, or a colleague and say, I'm really struggling, I need some help, that should be something that we give you a pat on the back.
比如，我很乐意帮助你。
Like, I would love to help you.
你来找我，我很高兴。
I'm delighted that you asked me.
对我来说，那个声明就像我的橄榄枝，媒体就那样报道了。
And that, for me, that announcement was kind of my olive branch, and the press ran with it how they ran with it.
但公平地说，它给了我很大的动力，让我们以那样的方式完成《拥挤的房间》，就像，如果你不听我的个人信息，那你必须听我节目的信息。
But to be fair, it kind of gave me a great drive to finish the crowded room in the way that we did to, like, if you're not gonna listen to my personal message, then you have to listen to the message of my show.
对。
Yeah.
所以它们是相辅相成的。
So it kind of went hand in hand.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
你刚才说的话让我想起来，我们现在自然想到的是心理医生或者医生，但你提到了老师。
You've you've reminded me actually when when you said that because I think we naturally today think of therapists or or doctors, but you you mentioned teacher there.
我记得我在学校经历一段非常艰难的时期，从公交车站走到学校的路上，每天都会遇到一位和我关系很好的老师，但你从来不会在走路上学时和老师说话。
And I was thinking when I was going through a really rough time at school once, I remember my walk to school from the bus stop, I'd see a teacher every day that I was really close with at school, but you never talk to your teachers walking to school.
你也是个人啊。
You're a person.
但那时我太孤独了，我记得我几乎在想，他是我唯一能说话的人，因为我在学校还有其他一些事情。
But I was so lonely at the time that I remember like almost thinking like, well he's the only person I can talk to because of other stuff that I was going through at school.
我记得我开始在上学路上和他聊天。
And I remember I started talking to him on the way to school.
他叫Mr.
His name is Mr.
巴克瑞奇，他都知道，我到处跟人讲他，他躲着我，因为大家都说，哦，杰又在说我了，对，对，杰又在说我了。
Buckridge, he knows, I go on about him everywhere and he avoids because everyone's always like, oh Jay's been talking about me, yeah, yeah, Jay's been talking about me.
但就是那种感觉，他是我在那个阶段觉得可以敞开心扉的人，不会觉得被评判，不会觉得他会用另一种眼光看我。
But it was that exact feeling where it was like, he was someone that I felt I could open up to at that point in my life without feeling judged, without feeling like he was gonna see me through another lens.
就是有那个空间，能作为一个正在经历事情的人被看见，完全没错。
And just having that space to be seen for as a human who is going through stuff Totally.
被一位老师看见，真的是非常大的收获。
By a teacher was a huge, huge win.
所以，你知道，你说得对，帮助可以来自各种不同的形式，不一定是我们预期的那种方式。
And so, you know, it's you are right that that help can come in all different forms and it doesn't have to come in the ways that we expect it to come in.
对。
Yeah.
不一定非得是专业人士。
It doesn't have to be a professional.
对。
Yeah.
我经常会去找朋友聊聊。
I go to my friends a lot.
而且，你知道的，不同朋友在不同情况下能提供的帮助是不一样的。
And and, you know, some friends are better than others in certain situations.
我有几个朋友就特别直接，他们会说：振作起来，继续往前走吧。
I've got some friends that are very much like, pull your socks up and get on with it.
还有那些朋友会说，过来吧，靠在我肩膀上哭一场。
And then other friends who are like, come here and have a cry on my shoulder.
不过情况各不相同。
But like, varies.
所以我真心希望这档节目能做到这一点，描绘出一幅积极的画面：寻求帮助是值得骄傲的事。
So I just really hope that that's what the show can do is sort of paint this positive picture of asking for help is something to be proud of.
这是个很棒的理念。
Well, that's a great message.
我觉得我们都需要听到这个。
And I think we all need to hear it.
我想稍微回顾一下，因为你做过很多采访，我也看过很多你的节目，但就像我们说的，很多都是简短的片段，因为那些娱乐采访都很短，所以我很感激你抽出时间来做这个。
And I wanna go back a little bit because there's a lot of interviews that you've done, and I've watched a lot of stuff over the time, but like we're talking about, a lot of it sound bites because it's quick and short and like these entertainment, you know, interviews, and that's why was really grateful that you took out the time to do this.
但据我所知，你七岁时被诊断出有阅读障碍。
But you were diagnosed as far as I read with dyslexia at age seven.
是的。
Yes.
我想知道，我们很多社区成员和听众也被诊断出有阅读障碍，或者有些人还没有，但后来在生活中才发现。
And I was wondering how, you know, a lot of our community and our audience is diagnosed as well, or some of them are not, but they're finding out later on in life.
这对你有什么影响？
How did that affect you?
或者你是如何因此获得成功的？因为作为演员，你需要背台词，读台词。
Or how were you set up for success with that from because as an actor, you've gotta learn lines, you gotta read lines.
有很多活动人们会认为相当有挑战性。
There's a lot of activities that people would assume are quite challenging.
当然。
Sure.
但你找到了办法，跟我们说说你是怎么做到的。
But you found a way, and and walk us through that a little bit.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我妈妈一直非常关注我们的教育。
I had my mom has always been really hands on with our education.
对。
Mhmm.
她，你知道，真的希望我们尽力而为。
She, you know, really wanted us to just do our best.
我爸爸总是说，别在乎你得了什么分数。
Our dad always said, like, look, don't care what grades you get.
只要你尽力了，尽力了，我们就很满意了。
As long as you try your best, you try your best, and that's all that we can ask for.
对。
Mhmm.
但，是的，我的阅读障碍其实只是拼写问题。
But, yeah, my dyslexia, it's really just my spelling.
我是说，说实话——
I mean, honestly- It's
就是这样，对。
just that, yeah.
你知道，就像圣诞节玩的那种游戏，你有没有玩过那种需要写下答案的？
You know, like, those sort of games that you play at Christmas, have you ever played the one where you have to write down the answers?
这个游戏超级好玩。
It's, I such a good game.
是《Boulder Dash》吗？
Is it Boulder Dash?
我没听说过《Boulder Dash》。
I don't know Boulder Dash.
是
Is it
基本上就是有人会读出一个场景，对吧。
It's basically a game where someone will read out a scenario or Right.
然后问一个问题，你得尽量回答，但也可以瞎编或者撒谎。
Ask a question, and then you have to answer the question to the best of your ability, but you can also bluff and lie.
哦，我从来没玩过这个
Oh, I've never played this
游戏。
game.
如果你写了一个看起来可信的答案，而且大家投票选你的答案，那你就赢了。
And if you write somewhat a believing answer and people vote for your answer, you win.
哦，不错。
Oh, cool.
好的。
Okay.
我从来没玩过这个。
I've never played it.
那太好了。
Which is great.
对。
Yeah.
但每次我玩的时候，大家都问，那上面写的是什么？
But when I play it, everyone's like, what does that say?
那肯定拼错了。
That is definitely not spelled right.
好。
Good.
不过说实话，拼写真的是我最大的障碍。
But yeah, so my spelling was really the biggest hurdle.
是的。
Yeah.
我在学校真的很努力。
I worked really hard at school.
我成绩不是特别好，但我爸妈说，只要你尽力了，我们就很满意了。
I didn't do particularly well, but again, my parents said as long as you try your best, then that's all we can ask for.
对。
Yeah.
而且演戏也很早就开始了，九岁就开始了吧？
And acting, started early too, age nine, right?
感觉那是你很小就开始追求的事情。
Like that was something that you started pursuing really early on in life.
我觉得，你那时候就一直很确定要走这条路吗？
And I feel, was that something that you were always sure about?
有个很火的TikTok视频一直在流传，就是你小时候被问到长大后想演什么超级英雄。
There's that famous viral TikTok that always goes around of you, you know, I don't know how old you were being asked, you know, what superhero would you play when you're older?
你说，哦，可能是蜘蛛侠，对吧？
You say, oh, maybe Spider Man, right?
而且我在想，你觉得你的演艺事业有多少是你自己“显化”出来的，或者说你一直有愿景、有目标，还是说这更多是你天生就喜欢的东西？那这种动力是从哪来的呢？
And it's like, and I wonder like how much of your acting career do you feel like you've manifested or there was a vision or a focus, or is it more just like this was naturally what you were into and it and it Where where did that come from?
其实我确实相信“显化”这回事。
I do believe in manifesting actually.
我真的相信。
I really do.
我觉得我的职业生涯有意思的地方在于，这从来不是我想要的东西。
I think what's interesting about my career is this was never something I wanted.
我当时就是个小孩子。
I just was a young kid.
我喜欢跳舞。
I loved dancing.
我妈妈每个星期六带我去上舞蹈课，我就是在那堂课上被发掘，去试镜伦敦西区的一个演出。
My mom would take me to a dance class every Saturday, and I got spotted through that dance class to audition for a show on the West End.
最后我演了那部戏。
I ended up doing the show.
我特别喜欢。
I loved it.
那是《比利·艾略特》的时候，你知道的，那经历太酷了。
Billy Elliot, it was the time of You my know, it was such a cool experience.
纯属巧合，有个经纪人在我演出的那晚来看戏。
Just by complete fluke, an agent came to see the show the night that I was on.
她签下了我。
She signed me.
她让我去试镜一部电影。
She sent me to an audition for a film.
我很幸运拿到了那个角色。
I was lucky enough to get the part.
突然之间，我就和伊万·麦克格雷格、娜奥米·沃茨一起拍戏了，我们创造了不可能。
All of a sudden, I was on set with Ewan McGregor and Naomi Watts, and we made the impossible.
说实话，那对我来说真的只是个爱好。
And to be perfectly honest with you, it was it was just a hobby.
那是我妈妈允许我在暑假做的事情。
It was something that my mom would let me do on the summer holidays.
她非常希望我继续上学。
She was very keen that I kept my schooling up.
在英国，那时候正好是GCSE和A-level之间的阶段，大家都在想接下来要做什么。我当时也在经历那个阶段，那时候你还可以在A-level阶段选择辍学。
And there sort of came that time in England where you're in between GCSEs and A levels, and you're trying to figure out when I was going through that, you could still drop out at A levels.
当然，现在你必须完成A-level。
Obviously, now you have to do A levels.
我当时就在想，我到底想做什么？
And I had that moment where I was like, what do I wanna do?
我可以继续留在学校，搞清楚自己想做什么，或者去尝试那个一直是我的爱好、暑假活动的表演，看看能不能靠它谋生。
I could try and stay at school and figure out what I wanna do, or this thing that's been a hobby, but my sort of summer holiday activity, which is acting, I could try and do that for a living.
我一直很幸运，你知道，有人给我工作机会之类的。
And I've been so lucky that I've been, you know, offered jobs and all that sort of stuff.
我决定去试试。
I decided to go with it.
我，我，我进了英国戏剧学校，因为我妈希望我去学校不是为了受教育，而是为了扩展社交技能，认识同龄的孩子。
I'd I'd I'd joined the Brit School because, you know, my mom was keen that I didn't go for school for an education, but went to school to expand my social skills and meet kids my own age.
我15岁时，我所有的朋友都是30岁左右的人，因为他们都是这个行业里的成年人。
All my friends when I was 15 were like 30 year old people because they're all adults from the business.
所以我觉得我妈是希望我有一些同龄的朋友，他们现在成了我最好的朋友。
So I think my mom was keen that I had some friends that are my age who are now my best friends today.
所以我其实从来没真正想要这个。
So I never really wanted this.
我只是好像一直没停下来。
I just sort of never stopped doing it.
而且我爱它。
And I love it.
我绝对爱它。
I absolutely love it.
我爱这种创造力。
I love the creativity.
我喜欢制作电影所需的各种基础元素。
I love the building blocks that are required to put a film together.
我喜欢片场里来自各行各业的人之间的合作。
I love the collaboration on set between people from all different walks of life.
你知道，片场就像一个各种不同人群的大熔炉。
You know, a film set is a melting pot of all sorts of different people.
所以我热爱这一切。
So I love it.
我真的很热爱。
I absolutely love it.
对。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
而且我读到你说过，你因为跳芭蕾舞而被欺负。
And and I I read something that you said you were bullied for like doing ballet.
对，没错。
Yeah, right.
这显然让你有机会出演《跳出我天地》里的角色，因为里面有芭蕾和踢踏舞，
Which obviously got you into the playing the role of Billy Elliot because it's ballet and tap,
当然。
Sure.
两种都有。
It's both.
那当时是不是挺难熬的？还是说你一直在隐瞒，结果最后却登上了伦敦西区的舞台，在众目睽睽之下表演？
So was that tough at the time or like were you trying to hide it and then you end up on, you you end up at the West End and you're on the main stage and everyone's seeing it?
还是说其实挺容易应对的？后来情况怎么样？
Or was it kind of easy to navigate and how did that go down?
因为我觉得，小时候学芭蕾和踢踏舞肯定有点不容易。
Because I feel like as a kid, doing ballet and tap must have been a little challenging.
是啊，我的意思是，不容易，但也不算太难，你知道吗？
Yeah, I mean it wasn't easy, but it also wasn't tough, you know?
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我上的是橄榄球学校，所以你可以想象，学校里就我一个跳芭蕾的。
I went to a rugby school, so you can imagine, like, the one kid in the school that does ballet.
总会有一些闲言碎语。
There's gonna be comments here and there.
那可不是件容易的事。
It wasn't the easiest thing in the world.
有些孩子不理解我为什么跳芭蕾，或者我跳芭蕾是为了什么。
There were kids that didn't understand why I was doing it or what I was doing it for.
不管我解释多少遍，比如我是班里三十个穿紧身衣的女孩中唯一的男生。
No matter how many times I explained, like, I'm the only guy in a class of 30 girls in tights.
我就说，兄弟们，这才是你们该干的事。
I was like, guys, this is what you wanna be doing.
橄榄球才不是呢。
Like, rugby is not it.
但说实话，那确实挺难的。
But I no, it was tough.
但话说回来，这又回到了我们之前说的韧性和埋头苦干。
But again, like, it goes back to what we were saying about resilience and keeping your head down.
《拥挤的房间》是我做过的最难的工作，原因有很多。
Crowded room was the hardest job I've ever had for all sorts of different reasons.
有一段时间我们甚至讨论过，要不要干脆放弃，直接走人？
And there was a point in time where we were talking about, do we shut this down and walk away from it?
因为实在太难了。
Because of how challenging it was.
但你知道，我坚持下来了，埋头苦干，我说，不，我一定要完成它。
And, you know, I dug my heels in, I put my head down, I like, no, I'm gonna finish this.
我要把它做完。
I'm gonna see it through.
我觉得，你会从过去的经历中学到东西。
And I think, you know, you learn from past experiences like that.
所以我真的为每个人在《拥挤的房间》里的表现感到骄傲，我觉得这源于我的童年、我父亲的经历，以及所有那些事情。
So I really am proud of the way everyone handled the crowded room, and I think that stems from my childhood, my dad's experiences, and all that sort of stuff.
对。
Yeah.
嗯，我也有个坦白要说。
Well, so I've got a confession as well to me.
说吧。
Go
继续。
on.
其实我也上过拉格比学校。
So I went to rugby school as well.
好的。
Okay.
你打球吗？
Did you play?
我打了，对，我为A队打球，而且打得还不错。
I played, yeah, I played for my A team, and I was pretty good.
哦，你在A队？
Oh, you're in the A team?
我当时挺厉害的。
I was pretty good.
你打的是盲侧边锋吗？
What Blindside zone did you flanker.
哇，厉害。
Okay, wow.
所以我非常喜欢橄榄球，因为我上的是橄榄球学校，我也喜欢足球，但我们学校不踢足球。
So I was really into rugby because I went to rugby school, and I loved football, but my school didn't play football.
所以我就觉得，不行。
And so I was like, no.
我必须进学校的主力队，肯定要。
I've gotta be on the school's main team, sure.
当然。
Sure.
是的。
Sure.
所以我非常努力才进了队。
So I worked really hard to get on the team.
但是每个星期六打完橄榄球之后，我妈妈非要我去上舞蹈课，里面还有芭蕾舞和踢踏舞。
But after we played rugby on a Saturday, my mom forced me to go to dance class, and part of it was ballet and tap as well.
真的吗？
Really?
虽然我最后并没有去西区演《跳出我天地》，因为我觉得比利·艾略特不是黑人演的。
Although I did not end up at the West End and played Billie Elliott because I don't think Billie Elliott was brown.
所以那是不可能的。
So that wasn't gonna happen.
对。
Yeah.
我的路跟你不一样。
It wasn't the same path as you.
哎呀。
Oh, boy.
我也有过这种经历。
I also had that experience.
所以我才想问你
That's why I had to ask you about
这个。
it.
你喜欢吗？
Did you enjoy it?
我真的很喜欢，因为那种团队氛围。
I really enjoyed it for the community aspect for it.
我很喜欢和我一起的那些伙伴。
Like I love all the lads that I was there with.
他们特别搞笑。
They just a great laugh.
特别有意思，因为周六我打完橄榄球就直接去上课了，浑身是伤、累得半死地走进教室。
It was really interesting because we'd go from I'd literally go from playing rugby straight to class on a Saturday, I'd go in there with all my bruises exhausted and all the rest of it.
大家都特别好玩。
Everyone was just so much fun.
没错。
Sure.
而且感觉橄榄球场反而压力更大，因为大家都绷着劲儿，想表现得严肃认真什么的；相比之下，跳舞那边大家就是纯粹图个乐呵。完全同意。
And it's almost like the rugby pitch was more stressful because everyone was, you know, trying to be intense and trying to be this and that, whereas everyone was just having a laugh at the dance Totally.
我们什么风格都玩，从嘻哈到街头风，
We do everything from hip hop to street to
太棒了。
Love it.
反正就是各种类型。
Whatever.
不过我记得以前从来没提过这事，我想这应该是我第一次跟人聊起这个。
But, I remember never telling I think this is the first time I've ever spoken about it.
这话可说出去了。
It's out there.
因为跟你在一起我觉得很安全。
Because I've been in safe space with you.
所以我就觉得……
So I'm like
但有意思的是，橄榄球是很讲究规矩的，对吧？
But it's interesting because rugby's regimented, isn't it?
对。
Yeah.
顺便说一句，我很喜欢橄榄球。
I love rugby, the way.
喜欢橄榄球。
Love a rugby.
位置具体到像盲侧边锋这样的说法。
Position that is as specific as saying the blindside flanker.
你知道，当你是舞者的时候，你就是个舞者。
You know, when you're a dancer, you're just a dancer.
对吧？
You know?
你可以随心所欲地融入任何方式。
You you you can fit in however you want to fit in.
是的。
Yeah.
老师可以问你感觉怎么样，而不是说你需要把头低到左边才能做出正确的擒抱。
The teacher can ask you how are you feeling about that rather than like, you need to get your head down to the left to make a proper tackle.
我小时候真的很喜欢打橄榄球。
I did love playing rugby when I was smaller.
是的。
Yeah.
当所有，嗯，不是小时候。
When all the well, not when I was smaller.
那时候所有孩子都还小，后来我从比尔·埃利奥特回来上学，大家都已经变成大人了，而我还是个小孩。
When all the kids were smaller, and then there was that time where I came back to school after Bill Elliott, and everyone had just become a man, and I was still very much a child.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我记得我们和一所叫三一学院的学校比赛，那是我回来的第一场比赛，我打的是传锋。
I remember we played this school called Trinity College, and it was my first game back, and I was playing scrum half.
我下半场才上场，那场比赛很暴力。
I came on the second half, and it was a violent game.
那可不是一场绅士的橄榄球赛。
It was not it was not a gentleman's game of rugby.
我站在那里，对方踢球给我们，我们接球。
And I was standing there, we're kicking to us, we were receiving.
我记得我当时想，只要球不传到我这里，只要踢过来，我就没事。
And I remember thinking, as long as the ball doesn't come to me, offer the kick, I'll be fine.
我需要比赛赶紧开始，然后我就没事了。
I need the game to get going, and then I'll be fine.
我是传锋，相对安全，我是个好的组织者。
I'm scrum half, relatively safe I'm a good playmaker.
他一踢球，球就直接朝我飞来。
As soon as he kicked the ball, it's coming straight towards me.
我，我试着接住它。
I I'm trying to catch it.
我能听到靴子跑过来的声音。
I can hear the boots running towards me.
我失手了，掉球了。
I fumble it, knock on.
比赛继续进行。
The game goes on.
我开始打得很好。
I start playing well.
我助攻了一次达阵。
I assisted a try.
然后我就不记得发生了什么，也不知道是怎么发生的，但我们队里有个特别难缠的家伙，我就不提名字了。
And then I don't remember what happened or how it happened, but there was a a really tough kid on our team who will remain nameless.
从那以后我就没跟他说过话。
I haven't spoken to him since.
我不知道他现在在干什么。
I don't know what he's doing.
但他跟对方队里的一个孩子打了起来，场面真的很难看。
But he got into a fight with some kid on the opposing team, and it was really quite ugly.
然后那个孩子的爸爸跑到球场上想教训我们队那个男孩，结果我们队那孩子把他爸爸打晕了。
And then the kid's dad came on the pitch to tell off this boy that was on my team, and the kid on my team knocked out his dad.
不会吧。
No.
是真的。
Like proper.
那是我第一次看到有人打人，我简直不敢相信一个孩子——你多大来着？
Like it's the first time I've ever seen someone hit someone, and I couldn't believe that a kid who was How old are you?
他当时肯定有16岁。
He must have been 16 at the time.
但他是那种16岁看起来比我现在还老的人，我就记得听到那声音。
But he's one of those 16 year olds that would look older than I do now when he was 16, and I just remember hearing the noise.
他，就像，一拳打在他爸爸的下巴上，倒地了，然后一场大混战就开始了。
He, like, cracked his dad on the jaw, hit the floor, then this whole big fight broke out.
我不是打架的料。
I'm not a fighter.
我退到一边，有点懵，心想：怎么回事？
I stepped away and was sort of like, what's going on?
对，太疯狂了。
Yeah, was wild.
那是我最后一次打橄榄球。
And that was the last game of rugby I ever played.
那是对阵三一学院的比赛。
It was against Trinity College.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
是的，那场比赛真的很激烈。
Yeah, it was really intense.
哇。
Wow.
那确实很激烈。
That was intense.
对，就是激烈到那种程度。
Yeah, that's how intense it got.
我最后一场比赛也差不多，但不是因为看人打架。
My last game was similar, but not watching a fight.
当时有人冲过来，那是一场重要比赛，我那个赛季打得特别好，一切都很顺利。
So someone ran, I had it was a big game, it's like I was playing really well that season, and everything was going really well.
然后有人撞到了石头上，但是是用胳膊肘撞的，那显然是完全的。
And someone ran into a rock but with their elbow, which is obviously Totally.
他们跑过来，正好用胳膊肘撞了我这里，就在这个位置，正下方。
They ran in and they elbowed me right there, like right below it's on this side and right below there.
然后接下来我就知道，我站起来，感觉有点暴躁。
And then next thing I know, I get up and I'm like kinda feeling a bit aggressive.
你也受伤了吗？
Are you cut as well?
嗯，我没注意到，然后血开始滴下来。
Well, I didn't notice, and then blood starts to drip.
我当时就想，那时候你会吓坏的，因为你会想，天哪，我流了好多血，一直在滴。
And I was like, that's when you freak out because you're oh god, I'm like I can and there's a lot of blood just dripping.
所以我被换下场，旁边的护士就在那里涂了点胶水，把它粘起来。
So I get subbed off and the nurse on the side just puts a bit of glue there, like to stick it together.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且那时候，你其实不太注意，觉得自己没事。
And at that time, you don't really notice it and you think you're all right.
结果一个小时后，伤口越来越肿，我只好在回家的路上跑去医院，因为我教练就说，忍忍吧，没事的。
And then literally an hour later, it's just getting thicker and thicker and thicker, I'm ending up with this, run to the hospital on the way home because my coach was just like, suck it up, it's fine.
你会没事的。
You'll be fine.
跑到那儿，他们说，你要是再晚点来，就会有神经损伤，甚至可能失明之类的，然后他们给我涂了胶水，还缝了几针。
Run there, they're like, if you were any later, you would have had nerve damage and like personally potentially lost your eyesight or whatever it was, and they had to like glue it and a little bit of stitches or whatever it was.
然后那个月剩下的时间，我都顶着一只几乎挂下来的眼睛到处走，看起来就像刚打了一场恶架。
And I, for the rest of the month, I walked around with my, like, know, eye literally hanging over and I looked like I'd got into like the worst fight.
我走进商店，大家都躲着我，真的特别不自在。
Like I walked into a store and everyone would kind of back off and stuff, and it was just really uncomfortable.
那是我最后一场橄榄球赛，所以我才记得这么清楚。
That was my last game of rugby, that's why I just remembered that.
不过，确实挺激烈的，但也挺棒的。
But yeah, it was it was it was intense, but it was great.
就像你说的，那是非常严格有纪律的训练。
Like you said, it was great regimented discipline training.
我喜欢和我的伙伴们一起训练。
I love training with my mates.
我喜欢比赛。
I love playing.
作为年轻人，我也喜欢有个出口来释放我所有的精力。
I love, as a young man as well, like having a outlet to release the energy that I had Totally.
显然，这挺好的，而且不是以伤害别人为目的。
Was good in in, obviously, in a way that wasn't trying to hurt others.
但这就是拳击的好处。
But that's what's so great about boxing.
是的。
Yeah.
拳击真的是一种很棒的宣泄方式。
It's like boxing is such a great release.
你知道，你看那些年轻的孩子，那些愤怒的孩子，需要发泄一下，就去打一个小时沙袋。
You know, you see these young kids, like young kids who are angry, who need to let something go, like, go and punch a bag for an hour.
那会让你平静下来。
That will make you, will calm you down.
对。
Yeah.
我喜欢拳击，对年轻人来说，这是释放那种能量的好方式。
I love how boxing is such a great thing for young people to release that sort of energy.
你打拳击吗？
Are you boxing?
你练拳击吗？
Do you box?
我热爱拳击。
I love boxing.
是的。
Yeah.
我已经好几年没怎么训练了。
It's been a few years since I've done any sort of training.
我以前常去纽约一家很棒的拳击馆，叫教堂街拳击。
I used to go to this great gym in in New York called Church Street Boxing.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我就是特别喜欢那儿。
Just love it there.
那儿有个很厉害的职业拳手。
Had a great pro.
你可以跟他切磋，因为你知道他不会把你打得很惨，他能控制住自己。
You could sort of spar with him because you know that he wouldn't batter you because he could control himself.
我去过一次实战训练，就是普通的训练，我在那儿被打得特别惨。
I went to one sparring session, just a general session, and I got absolutely lean back there.
是的。
Yeah.
虽然很辛苦，但我很喜欢。
It was tough, but I love it.
我热爱这项运动。
I love the sport.
我对现在这项运动的运作方式感到有点遗憾。
I'm a little bit sad as to, like, how the sport is being run right now.
对。
Right.
但我确实热爱这项运动，也很敬佩那些运动员。
But I do love the sport, and I admire the athletes.
我觉得他们非常了不起。
I think they're amazing.
你对那些YouTuber打拳击之类的事情怎么看？这显然给这项运动带来了很多关注。
What's your take on YouTubers, boxing, and all that kind of stuff, and because it's obviously bringing a lot of attention to the sport.
说实话，兄弟，我并不太介意。
To be perfectly honest with you, mate, I don't really mind it.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得挺有意思的。
I think it's quite fun.
我觉得如果你做这件事
I think if you're doing it
是出于正确的目的，你知道，这是一个很好的机会，可以为一些很棒的慈善机构筹款，我觉得其中有些人确实为慈善做了很多。
for the right reasons, you know, it's just a great opportunity to raise some money for amazing charities, and I think a few of them have done a lot for charity.
我觉得真的很棒。
I think it's really great.
我觉得，是的，你知道，我弟弟帕蒂以前从不看拳击，现在，是的。
I think, yeah, you know, my brother, Patty, would never have been watching boxing, and now Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他爱上看拳击了。
He loves it.
我大概会看拳击的。
I probably would boxing with it.
YouTuber们也在打拳击。
YouTubers are boxing.
所以是的。
So Yeah.
如果这对这项运动有好处，那就是好事。
If it's good for the sport, it's good for the sport.
我其实不太介意。
I I sort of don't really mind.
对。
Yeah.
说实话，我觉得挺有趣的。
I think it's funny, to be honest.
是的。
Yeah.
因为你坐在家裡看的时候，
Because you sit at home watching it,
你会觉得我也能行。
you're like, I could do that.
你走进去
You get in there
然后做那些动作，你就会想，难道你不也是吗？
and do that, and you're like, well, don't you?
然后你就像，好吧，是的。
And you're like, well Yeah.
我真的不想那样做。
I don't really wanna do that.
那我们在《洛奇4》里可能就能见到你了。
So we we might see you in Creed IV then.
对。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
对。
Yeah.
我们会做那种表演式的拳击。
We'll do the we'll do the acting boxing.
我很想拍一部拳击电影。
I'd love to do a boxing movie.
是吗？
Yeah?
我觉得拍一部拳击电影会很酷，但里面的打斗是真的。
I think it would be cool to do a boxing movie, but where the fighting is real.
给我讲讲。
Walk me through that.
我不一定要参与其中，对吧？
I wouldn't necessarily be in that Right?
但我确实觉得，你可以拍一部非常有趣的电影，电影的结果取决于真实比赛的结果。
But I do think that you could make a really interesting film where the outcome of the film is determined on the outcome of the real fight.
以前有人做过类似的事情吗？
Has anything like that ever been done?
比如赛车或者任何……我只是想……
Like racing or any any can you I'm just trying to
据我所知没有。
Not that I know of.
对，据我所知没有。
Yeah, not that I know of.
我也在想这个。
That's what I'm trying to think.
那可能会非常酷。
It could be really cool.
是的。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
但是，是的，
But, yeah,
我超爱拳击电影。
I love I love boxing movies.
完全着迷。
A sucker for it.
对。
Yeah.
你最喜欢哪一部？
Which one's which one's your favorite?
我觉得《洛奇2》可能是我最喜欢的。
I think Rocky two is probably my favorite.
对。
Yeah.
我记得我们当时
I remember when we were
在《跳出我天地》里，我们有个房间叫“比利屋”，演出进行时后台总有个比利待命，因为那部剧太耗体力了。
in Billy Elliot, we had this room called the Billy Room, and there was always a Billy backstage while the show was going on because the show was so labor intensive.
非常危险。
It was very dangerous.
有很多活动部件。
There's lots of moving parts.
有很多杂技动作。
There's lots of acrobatics.
比利受伤并不少见，然后楼上就会有人来替换比利。
It wasn't too uncommon for a Billy to get injured, and then there would be someone upstairs who would replace Billy.
我们就在楼上闲逛，那里有台Xbox和电视，还有那些东西。
And we would just hang out upstairs, and there was an Xbox and a television and and all that sort of stuff.
我们有的两张DVD之一就是《舞出我人生》，我最喜欢的电影，还有《洛奇2》，那部电影我肯定看了40遍。
And one of the DVDs that we had, the two DVDs we had was Step Up to the Streets, my favorite film of all time, and Rocky two, and I must have seen that film 40 times.
我
I
喜欢那部电影。你在镜子前练了多少次那段舞？
love that How many times did you practice the dance in the mirror?
天哪。
Oh, man.
我已经把整支舞都学会了，
I've got the whole dance
兄弟。
down, bro.
我们能看看吗？
Can we see it?
不行。
No.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
我超爱那部电影。
I love that film.
我真的很爱那部电影。
I absolutely love that film.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得我最喜欢的是《洛奇》，因为我会和我爸一起看。
I'd say I'd say my favorite so Rocky was my favorite because I'd watch it with my dad.
没错。
True.
至于《洛奇》，我在第三部和第四部之间纠结，因为我超爱T先生。
And Rocky, I struggle between Rocky three and Rocky four because I love Mr.
T。
T.
还有，那是第三部。
And was That's three.
对，第三部。
That's three.
我也很喜欢伊万·德拉戈，那是第四部。
And I loved Ivan Drago as well, which was four.
这两部都是非常棒的电影。
And they were both just such great movies.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
就是，对，虽然跟真实的拳击完全不一样，但就是特别好看。
It was just, yeah, it's such great entertainment even though it's nothing like real boxing.
对。
Yeah.
跟真正的拳击完全不一样。
Nothing at Nothing at real boxing.
但后来我记得我小时候看过真正的拳击比赛。
But then I remember watching real boxing when I was growing up.
是王子纳西姆。
It was Prince Nassim.
哦，所以，对。
Oh, so Yeah.
很喜欢，对。
Loving Yeah.
我爸爸是他的超级粉丝，所以我记得经常看他比赛。
My dad was a big fan of his, so I'd remember watching him a lot.
我喜欢他的风格。
I love his style.
有一段他训练的视频，我猜他是在打那种摆动沙袋，他看起来特别轻松。
There's a video of him working with the I guess he's just it's like a swinging bag, and he is so effortless.
因为卡内洛的头部移动很棒，但他看起来像是在思考怎么动。
Because Canelo's got a great head movement, but but he looks like he's thinking about it.
对。
Yeah.
而纳西姆就像活在梦里一样。
Whereas Nazeem is just living the dream.
他就是那么流畅，我喜欢他以前的移动方式。
Just he's so fluid, and I love the way he used to move.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我还喜欢他进场的方式。
And I love how he would enter the ring.
换作是我，我可能会转得过头，然后脸着地摔一跤。
Me, I would over rotate and slam on my face or something.
是啊，他太厉害了。
Yeah, he was brilliant.
对，那感觉就像是摔跤和拳击的结合。
Yeah, it was like wrestling meets boxing.
对对对。
Yeah, yeah.
那肯定
That was It must
是场噩梦般的比赛。
have been a nightmare to fight.
对，
Yeah,
是的。
yeah.
那感觉肯定就像，他一直在打我，让我很没面子。
It must have been like, he's beating me and he's embarrassing me.
这真的太艰难了。
This is really tough.
太糟糕了。
Terrible.
你觉得
What do you
洛马琴科怎么样？
think of Lemachenko?
你看他上一场比赛了吗？
Did you see his last fight?
我没看。
I haven't.
没有，我没看到。
No, I didn't see it.
我没看。
I didn't see it.
那场比赛挺有意思的。
That's an interesting one.
你跟我说说，我完全没看。
Go and tell me, I didn't see it at all.
嗯，大家普遍觉得他赢了，但结果判给了另一边。
Well, think the general consensus is that he won, but it was given the other way.
对，
Right,
对，他是我最喜欢的拳击手。
right, He is my favorite boxer.
没错。
Right.
因为他的经历，他以前学过舞蹈，我觉得他真是个非常有天赋的拳击手。
Because of his history, his background in dance, he was like, I guess, a really talented boxer.
然后我听说——不知道是不是真的——他爸爸送他去学了大概五年的舞蹈。
Then I get I don't know if this is true, but his dad sent him to go and study dance for sort of five years or something like that.
为了他的拳击事业。
For his boxing thing.
为了他的拳击，
For his boxing,
所以他的步法才那么出神入化。
which is why his footwork is like on another planet.
哇。
Wow.
有很多例子，他和别人打的时候，对方一抬头，发现他已经不见了。
There's loads of examples of where he's fighting people and they look up and he's just gone.
他已经到身后了。所以我真的很佩服他。
He's behind So I really admire him.
但他最近一场比赛输了。
But his most recent fight, he lost.
他打得怎么样？
How did it go against him?
是投票决定的吗？
Was it a vote?
是投票决定的。
It was a vote.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Right.
他们反对他。
They went against him.
所以我在想他们会不会再打一场。
So I wonder whether they'll fight again.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得他们不得不这么做，如果看起来这不是什么阴谋论的话。
That I guess they'll have to if there's it seems like this isn't a conspiracy theory
不过，拳击有个问题。
problem with boxing, though.
比如说，他们还会再打一场吗？
Like, will they fight again?
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你知道吗？
You know?
因为这行当挺棘手的。
Because it's a tricky it's a tricky business.
我就像UFC那样，你知道，如果他们想打，他们就会打。
I'm like the UFC where, you know, if they wanna fight, they'll fight.
这就是我喜欢它的原因。
That's what I love about it.
前几天晚上我带我弟弟和表哥去看了UFC，那真是一项野蛮的运动。
I took my brother and my cousin to the UFC the other night, and that is such a savage sport.
确实。
It is.
那真是，是的，太吓人了。
That is, yeah, it's terrifying.
我们真的不希望那只是电影里的事，而是真实发生的。
We really don't want that to be a movie and a real one.
想象一下《勇士》那部电影。
Imagine The Warrior.
我刚想提到那部电影呢。
Was just gonna talk about made it.
那部电影
That movie
太棒了。
so good.
《勇士》是最被低估的电影之一。
The Warrior is one of the most underrated movies.
那部电影非常出色。
That movie is excellent.
对。
Yeah.
一个晚上打六场比赛，然后准备最后一场决赛，这个设定有点夸张，但我确实很喜欢那部电影。
It's a little ridiculous, the idea that they have six fights a night getting ready for one final, but I do love that film.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这真的是一部非常好的电影。
It's a really It's good a really good movie.
哦，好吧。
Oh, well, okay.
行。
All right.
所以我们知道后面会有一部拳击电影。
So we know there's a boxing movie coming somewhere.
对。
Yeah.
后面肯定有一部。
Gotta be one down the line.
后面肯定有
There's gotta be one down the
一部。
line.
当然。
Absolutely.
对。
Yeah.
我们想看到你一步步往上爬，然后想，说不定你真的会去实战。
And we wanna see you work your way up and think, I mean, we might see you like, you know, actually go do it for real.
听起来不错，对。
Sounds like good Yeah.
想想看。
Imagine.
也许是为了慈善。
For charity, maybe.
你最近提到过，你大概一年半前戒酒了。
One of the things that you mentioned recently was that you gave up drinking about a year and a half ago.
对。
Yes.
你说过那是你做过的最难的事。
And you said it was the hardest thing you ever did.
是的。
Yes.
我想知道那对你来说到底难在哪里。
And I wanted to know what was so hard about it for you.
为什么那么难？
Why was it so hard?
这挺有意思的。
It's interesting.
我不是某天醒来就突然说要戒酒的。
I didn't one day wake up and say, I'm giving up drinking.
就像很多英国人一样，我那个十二月没少喝。
I just, like many Brits, had had a very, very boozy December.
圣诞节假期，我在度假，喝得很多，而且我一直能喝很多。
Christmas time, I was on vacation, I was drinking a lot, and I've always been able to drink a lot.
我觉得我喝酒的能力是遗传我妈妈的，我能喝很多。
I think I get my genes from my mom's side in that thing that I can I can drink?
所以我决定一月份戒酒。
And I decided to just give up for January.
我只是想试试“一月戒酒”，但我满脑子都是喝酒。
I just wanted to do dry January, and all I could think about was having a drink.
我满脑子都是这个。
It's all I could think about.
我醒来的时候都在想。
I I was waking up thinking about it.
我一直在看时间。
I was checking the clock.
什么时候到十二点？
When's it twelve?
这真的吓到我了。
And it just really scared me.
我当时就想，哇。
I just was like, wow.
也许我真的有点喝酒的问题。
Maybe maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing.
所以我有点惩罚自己，决定说，那二月份也继续戒。
So I sort of decided to punish myself and say, I'll do February as well.
我戒两个月。
I'll do two months off.
如果我能戒两个月，就能向自己证明我没问题。
If I can do two months off, then I can prove to myself I don't have a problem.
两个月过去了，我还是很煎熬。
Two months go by, and I was still really struggling.
我觉得自己没法社交。
I felt like I couldn't be social.
我觉得自己没法去酒吧点青柠汽水。
I felt like I couldn't go to the pub and have a lime soda.
我连出去吃晚饭都不行。
I couldn't go out for dinner.
我当时真的非常挣扎，开始真的担心自己可能有酒精问题。
I was really, really struggling, and I started to really worry that maybe I had an alcohol problem.
所以我决定等到我的生日，也就是6月1号。
So I decided that I would wait until my birthday, which is June 1.
我对自己说，如果我能六个月不喝酒，那我就能证明自己没有酒精问题。
I said to myself, if I can do six months without alcohol, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem.
等到6月1号的时候，我达到了人生中最快乐的时刻。
And by the time I had got to June 1, I was the happiest I've ever been in my life.
我睡眠更好了。
I could sleep better.
处理问题的能力也更强了。
I could handle problems better.
以前在片场遇到问题会让我很烦躁，现在我能从容应对了。
Things that would go wrong on set that would normally set me off, I could take in my stride.
我的头脑清晰多了。
I had so much, such better mental clarity.
我感觉更健康了。
I felt healthier.
我感觉更健壮了。
I felt fitter.
然后我就对自己说，为什么我要被这酒奴役呢？
And I just sort of said to myself, like, why why am I enslaved to this drink?
为什么我这么执着于喝这杯酒？
Why am I so obsessed by the idea of having this drink?
回想起来，我意识到以前去工作场合的活动时，不喝几杯啤酒我就没法尽兴。
And I would look back and recognize that I would go to events for for work and, you know, I can't enjoy myself until I've had a few beers.
我感觉压力特别大，这也是我逐渐远离橄榄球圈子的原因之一，因为那里太注重你能喝多少酒了。
And I just felt so much pressure, and this is one of the things why I've sort of distanced myself from the rugby community because so much of it is about how much can you drink?
他们会想方设法把你灌醉。
Let's get you as drunk as possible.
说实话，这是我做过的最好的决定。
And it's honestly been the best thing I've ever done.
到现在已经一年半了。
I'm a year and a half into it now.
我根本不会想到那件事。
It doesn't even cross my mind.
我找到了很棒替代品，我觉得它们特别好。
I found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic.
而且那些替代品也很健康。
Ones that are also really healthy.
我找到了一种啤酒，里面富含电解质，而且它的碳水化合物是长效的。所以现在喝啤酒其实是一件很健康的事。
I found this one beer that is full of electrolytes and it's, you know, the carbohydrates in it are long lasting So, like, having a beer is now actually like a really healthy thing.
我很幸运，我的朋友们都非常支持我。
I'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive about it.
我从来没有遇到过朋友劝我喝酒的情况。
I've never run into that scenario where my friends are like, oh, go on.
就喝一杯啤酒嘛。
Just have a beer.
没事的。
Like, you're fine.
他们一直都很支持我，我也不想成为那种劝别人戒酒的人。
They've always sort of really supported me, and I don't wanna be that person that's saying to people, you should get sober.
你应该戒酒。
You should get sober.
如果我能鼓励别人少喝点，那当然好。
If I could encourage someone to drink less, then that's great.
但我不想开始说你需要停止喝酒，因为这不是我能说的。
But I I don't wanna start getting into the world of you need to stop drinking because I just it's it's not for me to say.
我走了自己的小旅程。
I went on my own little journey.
我真的很享受。
I'm really enjoying it.
我很高兴我妈妈也戒酒了。
I'm delighted that my mom's has also given up.
她很喜欢这样，而且效果非常好。
She's loving it, and it's been amazing.
我简直不敢相信不喝酒之后感觉变化这么大。
I can't believe the difference that I feel from not drinking.
是的。
Yeah.
我感觉棒极了。
I feel amazing.
太棒了，兄弟。
That's amazing, man.
我很喜欢听你这么说。
I love hearing that.
听到这对你来说很好，我真的很高兴，对吧？
I love hearing that it's been great for you, right?
我觉得这就是重点。
Think that's that's the point.
不是所有事情都要像，看我做了什么，你也可以做到。
Not everything has to be like, look what I did, you can do it too.
更像是，不，这只是对我有好处的。
Kinda like, no, this is just what's been great for me.
你觉得至少一开始，是不是也有这种心态，就是，你看，我能喝酒，我喝很多，这遗传自我妈，对我没什么影响，然后突然你意识到，等等，不止是这样。
Do you think it was partly that attitude for you at least in the beginning where it's like, well, look, I can drink, I drink a lot, it comes from my mom jeans and it doesn't affect me, and then all of a sudden you realize, well, wait a minute, it's more than that.
因为我觉得确实有这种情况。
Because I think there is that.
我年轻的时候也是这样。
Like I was like that as a young man as well.
对我来说，喝酒很容易。
Like for me it was easy to drink.
不是每天都喝。
Didn't drink daily.
对我来说，更多是在社交场合喝得多。
For me, drank a lot more socially.
对。
Sure.
而且我很喜欢和朋友们玩喝酒游戏。
And I loved playing drinking games with my mates.
是的。
Yeah.
那可能是我最喜欢的事情。
Was the thing I enjoyed the most probably.
对我来说，戒酒之后，我很快就发现，喝酒会让我做出一些清醒时绝不会做的事。
And for me, when I quit, I could just quickly see how it just got me into doing things I would never do if I wasn't drunk.
所以对我来说，更多的是那个原因。
So for me, it was more that.
不过，我很好奇，你有没有发现，从“我知道我能喝很多”到突然之间你有点上瘾，这之间其实有一条很细的线？
But yeah, I wonder for you, did you find that there's a really fine line between like, oh, I know I can drink a lot, then all of a sudden you're kind of addict not addicted beyond that.
不，是上瘾了，兄弟。
No, addicted, mate.
我很乐意承认，
Like, I'm happy to say, like,
我确实对酒精上瘾了，我完全不回避这一点。
I was definitely addicted to alcohol, Not shying away from that at all.
我觉得任何早上醒来，不是，醒来就……
I think anyone that wakes up and has a not wakes up.
任何每天都要喝啤酒的人，可能都有点问题。
Anyone that has a beer every day has probably got a little bit of a problem.
但你说得对。
But yeah, you're right.
我会一直喝一直喝一直喝，然后突然到了那个点，你会想，哇，我不该喝那最后一杯啤酒的。
I would drink and drink and drink and drink, and then you would just reach that moment where you're like, wow, I shouldn't have had that last beer.
第二天醒来，头疼得厉害，难受得要命。
And you wake up the next day and you have a terrible headache and you're suffering.
我买了一个那种能监测睡眠的戒指。
I bought one of those rings that will tell you about your sleep.
对，Oura Ring。
Yeah, Aura Ring.
是的。
Yeah.
那个戒指特别神奇，因为我当时根本睡不着。
It was amazing because I couldn't sleep.
我就想，我为什么睡不着呢？
I was like, why can't I sleep?
我每天工作十四个小时。
I'm working fourteen hours a day.
还要去健身房练两个小时。
I'm doing two hours in the gym.
我吃得也很健康，可就是睡不着。
I'm eating really healthily, and I can't sleep.
我到底怎么了？
What's wrong with me?
我买了这个戒指，结果发现是酒的问题。
I bought this ring and it was booze.
它完全影响了我的睡眠。
It just, it was completely affecting my sleep.
自从我戒酒以后，我在哪儿都能睡着。
And since I've given it up, I can sleep anywhere.
你知道吗？
You know?
还有，晚上出去玩，作为清醒的人玩得很开心，然后到了某个时刻，人们开始在你耳边喷口水，每个人都跟你说‘我爱你，兄弟’之类的。
It's also interesting as well going on nights out and having a great time as the sober person, and then getting to that point in the night where people start, you know, spitting in your ear and everyone's, I love you, man.
‘我太爱你了。’
I love you so much.
然后你就想，是啊。
And you're like, yeah.
太棒了。
Brilliant.
我也爱你。
I love you too.
明天见。
I'll see you tomorrow.
我要去睡觉了。
I'm going to bed.
我喜欢现在成为这样的人。
Like, I love being that person now.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我喜欢早上8点在高尔夫球场看到朋友们精神饱满、准备出发的样子。
I love seeing my friends on the golf course at 8AM in the morning feeling fresh and ready to go.
对。
Yeah.
他们从车里爬出来，所以，是的。
And they're sort of crawling out their car and so, yeah.
所以，我，我，我真的很高兴能保持清醒。
So I I I'm over the moon to be sober.
我喜欢这样。
I love it.
对。
Yeah.
对于现在正在听的人，他们会说，汤姆，我真为你高兴。
For anyone who is listening right now and is going, Tom, I love that for you.
我也想这么做。
I want to do it too.
他们听着，心想，我每天都喝太多了。
Like, they're listening going, I'm having too much every day.
我能注意到其中一些，但我就是卡住了。
I can notice some of those things, but I'm just stuck.
这很难，因为我们知道成瘾就是这样，我们知道这很沉重，不容易。
And it's hard because we know that addiction's that way, we know that this is heavy, it's not easy.
但如果有人看着说，汤姆，告诉我，你当初是怎么开始的？
But if someone is watching going, Tom, tell me, like, what what did you do to even get started?
你是怎么有勇气说，我要坚持一月份，我会坚持下去的？
How did you have that courage to say, I'm gonna do January, I'm gonna stick at it?
有没有什么时刻你确实退步了，然后又重新振作起来？
Were there any moments where you actually fell back and then had to get back on the horse again?
就像，给我们多讲讲这个过程，给那些看着的人说，汤姆，兄弟，我想在六个月后达到你的位置。
Like, just walk us through that a little bit more for anyone who is watching going, Tom, mate, I I wanna be in your position in, six months.
我没有退步
I didn't fall back
在它上面。
on it.
我以前确实有过这种情况。
I have done in the past.
比如，我人生中有过戒酒然后又重新喝起来的阶段。
Like, I've had periods of my life where I'd given up drinking and then gone back to drinking.
但这次，我也不知道为什么。
But this time, I don't know.
就是感觉不一样了。
It was just different.
我真的努力去改变自己的心态。
I really worked to sort of change my mindset.
我认真问自己，你为什么要喝酒？
I really asked myself, like, why do you drink?
你为什么在喝酒？
Why are you drinking?
很多时候，我的答案是让自己在社交场合更自在。
And a lot of the time, my answer would be to feel more comfortable in the social environment.
对。
Yeah.
然后我就把自己放到那些环境里，逼着自己待在那儿。
And I just put myself in those environments and just would force myself to be there.
我强迫自己去社交，去夜店、去酒吧，或者去吃饭。
I'd force myself to hang out and and go to a club or go to a bar or go to a dinner.
对。
Yeah.
所以你并没有回避那些地方。
So you weren't avoiding those places.
一开始我确实回避，因为我觉得自己没法去那种地方还不喝酒，压力太大了。
I was at the beginning because I didn't feel like I could go and not have a drink because of the stress of it.
但过了一段时间，我就想，哥们儿，你得振作起来，不能老窝在家里。
But then after a while, I sort of was like, mate, gotta pull your socks up here, and you can't just live in your house all the time.
你得出去享受生活。
You've gotta go out and enjoy yourself.
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