Vinh Giang：如何沟通才能让人真正听你说话

比如说，我可以这么说：“哦，今天早上，我的朋友送了我一块非常好的表，一块我这辈子一直想要的表，他居然能送给我，这简直就是我一直梦寐以求的那块表。”

Like I can say, "Oh, this morning, my friend gave me a really good, great watch, a watch that I've always wanted in my entire life, and he was able to share it with me, and it's just like a Grail watch that I've wanted.

太棒了。”

Sick."

这样听起来你就有点急切了。

So you kind of sound a little bit eager.

那是一块汉密尔顿的奥德赛手表，真的挺疯狂的。

It was an Odyssey watch from Hamilton, which was wild.

哦。

Oh.

那听起来就是这样，看起来可能也是这样。

Then it sounds like it, and it could look like it too.

但如果是你来说，你会改变语气，也会改变它的视觉呈现。

Whereas if you said it, then you shift the way the voice and you shift the visual nature of it.

就像是，“啊，今天早上，我得到了一个我很久以来一直想要的东西。”

It's like, "Ah, this morning, I got something I wanted for a really long time.

我的朋友阿里送了我一块手表。

My friend Ali got me a watch.

那是一块奥德赛手表，超级酷。

It was an Odyssey watch, and it was so cool."

现在听起来就带点谦逊了。

And now there's a sound of humility.

声音里透着细腻。

There's a subtleness in sound.

外形上也显得很细腻。

There's a subtleness in the visual nature.

这能解决很多问题——

And that fixes so much-

因为当你遇到一个傲慢的人时，他们的外表和声音都会透露出那种感觉，我们都能看出来。

... because when you meet somebody who's arrogant, they look a certain way, and they sound a certain way, and we all recognize it.

是的。

Yes.

我们会说："哦，那个人……哦，他有点傲慢。"

We go, "Oh, that person's... Oh, they're a bit arrogant."

有时候，他们说的话本身并不傲慢。

Sometimes what they said wasn't even arrogant.

所以，你在心里会想："那我说话时，自己会发出什么样的声音呢？"

So it's you thinking in the back of your mind, "Well, when I'm speaking, what kind of sounds am I creating?"

因为这确实是存在的。

Because there is such thing.

有的人很友好。

Someone's friendly.

你是怎么知道他们友好的？

How do you know they're friendly?

就是因为他们面带微笑。

It's because they're smiling.

他们的声音里有很多旋律。

There's lots of melody in their voice.

“哦，这个人很友好。”

"Oh, that person's friendly."

我们很快就做出了这些判断。

We make those judgments so quick.

所以我觉得你在这方面要小心。

So I think you've got to be careful in that.

是的。

Yes.

相反，要为你感到骄傲的事情而自豪。

Whereas be proud of the thing you're proud of.

如果你喜欢那块手表，就聊聊那块手表。

If you love that watch, talk about that watch.

如果你为晋升感到骄傲，就聊聊晋升的事。

If you're proud of the promotion, talk about the promotion.

但关键在于你说话的方式，最终决定了人们如何看待它。

But it's how you play the instrument while you're doing it ends up being the way that people perceive it.

别人会觉得这是傲慢还是不傲慢？

Do they perceive it with arrogance or without?

这就是最吸引人的地方。

And that's what's so fascinating.

我们更多是在调整内容，而不是在调整沟通方式。

We're editing the content more than we are the communication approach.

我们根本不会想到沟通方式这个问题。

We don't think about the communication approach.

确实不会。

We don't.

大家准备演讲时，第一件事会做什么？

What's the first thing people do when they're preparing for a presentation?

他们第一件事会干什么？

What's the first thing they do?

他们会把内容写下来。

They write out the content.

演讲稿。

The script.

一切都取决于演讲稿。

It's all about the script.

他们认为传达想法的唯一方式就是选择用哪些词。

And they think that the only modality for communicating an idea is the words that I choose to use.

那只是一方面。

That's one modality.

还有你用来表达的语气。

There's the voice in which you use to deliver it.

还有用来展示的肢体语言，再加上你决定用什么样的故事来增强效果。

There's the body language in which you use to show it, and then there's a story that you decide to use to be able to enhance it.

还有很多其他方面。

There's so many other modalities.

所以关键是所有这些方面要协同作用。

So it's about all of them working together.

我读了一些关于这个的研究，想看看我们今天怎么帮助听众真正像你那样培养这些技能。

I was reading some research about this and looking into how we can help our audience today really build these skills in the way you do.

当然，希望人们买了书之后能好好读一读，不过我想深入聊一些关键的点。

And of course, hopefully, people get the book and then can read about it at length, but there are some key things I wanted to dive into.

96%的雇主说沟通技巧对他们来说极其重要，但只有53%的人认为新毕业生具备这些技能。

96% of employers say that communication skills are extremely important to them, but only 53% believe that new graduates have those skills.

在沟通方面，Z世代遇到了什么困难？

When it comes to communication, what are Gen Z struggling with?

他们遇到的问题是，你把他们扔进一个环境，却没有为这个环境训练他们。

What they're struggling with is you're throwing them into an environment without training them for the environment.

我觉得这是一项我们靠自己去学的技能。

I feel that this is a skill that we get left our own accord to learn.

所以，如果你的父母是很棒的沟通者，你模仿了他们，那你就是个很好的沟通者，这在职场中就是优势。

So if you've had great parents who are great communicators, and you modeled them, and then you're a great communicator, you have an advantage in the workforce.

反过来，想想在职场中，你是什么时候学到这个技能的？

Whereas, if you think about in the workforce, when do you learn this skill?

在你的个人生活中，你什么时候学会这项技能？

In your own personal life, when do you learn this skill?

你在任何地方都学不到这项技能。

You're not taught this skill anywhere.

你只能靠自己来掌握这项技能。

You're left to your own accord to master this skill.

所以如果你从没学过，那你就不可能擅长。

So if you've never learned it, then you're not going to be good at it.

但问题是，现在人们会认为，因为我不擅长，就永远无法变得擅长。

But then there's a problem, is that now people are making the assumption that because I'm not good at it, well, I'm never going to be able to get great at it.

人们对自己沟通能力的判断，好像这是一成不变的。

People make judgments about their own communication skills as if they're permanent.

但你的沟通方式，其实只是一系列从别人那里学来的行为，而且你已经在过去5年、10年、20年、30年、40年里不断重复它们。

But the way you communicate is just a series of behaviors that you've learned from other people that you've been repeating for the last 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years of your life.

你可以忘掉这些旧行为，用新的行为来替代它们。

You can unlearn them, and you can replace them with new behaviors.

所以我觉得很多Z世代的人就是没有机会去练习这些技能，也没有机会去掌握它们。

So I think a lot of Gen Z just don't have the opportunity to practice these skills and be given the opportunity to master these skills.

结果就是，我看到很多年轻一点的团队成员，他们宁愿给我发短信，也不愿意跟我面对面聊。

And then as a result, I see a lot of even my younger team members, they rather text me than have a conversation with me.

但话说回来，这也不是他们的错。

But again, it's not their fault.

我觉得如果他们真的学会了怎么把乐器弹好，他们肯定也会喜欢这么做的。

I think if they learned how to play the instrument really well, they would love to do this.

这不是说哪个好哪个不好。

And it's not about one is bad, the other isn't.

两者都行。

It's both.

两种方式都挺好的。

They're both really good.

有时候我也想发短信，但当我需要面对面交流的时候，我也能做到。

There are times when I just want to text, but then when I need to do this, I can too.

是的。

Yes.

否则，你会陷入一个很常见的陷阱，就是觉得“我只要把工作做好就行了”，结果你变成了一个没人知道的神秘人。

Otherwise, you fall into the trap of thinking, "I'm just going to let my work speak for itself," which is a super common trap, and then you end up being a secret agent that no one knows exists.

神秘人的活儿还是留给丹尼尔·克雷格吧。

Leave the secret agent stuff to Daniel Craig.

对，交给他。

Yeah, leave it to him.

你应该学会让自己发光。

Whereas you should learn how to shine your light.

你要学会既能做出好成绩，也要学会为自己发声。

You should learn how to do great work and learn to speak for it, too.

是的。

Yes.

并且为它负责。

And take responsibility for it.

别把它看成是小事，觉得那不重要。

Don't look at it as, "Oh, that's not important."

别觉得可以等着别人来给我创造培训机会。

Don't look at it as, "Oh, I'll leave that to other people to create training opportunities for me."

不，你自己去学。

No, go learn this yourself.

没有人会主动来教你。

No one's going to come and just teach you.

你应该主动去学，因为这是一项人生技能。

You should take the initiative and learn it, because it's a human skill.

沟通是不是分两种形式，听和说，还是说有更多？

Am I right in saying there's two forms of communication, listening and speaking, or are there more?

嗯，我觉得主要就是这两种。

Well, I feel there's those two that happen.

我觉得还有写作。

I think there's also writing.

这又是一种沟通方式。

That's another form of communication.

我觉得沟通就分这三方面。

And those are the three quadrants I think of it in.

我读过另一项研究，说96%的人都觉得自己很会听。

I was reading another study that said 96% of people think they're good listeners.

你同意吗？

Do you agree?

你想不想玩个游戏试试？

Do you want to try a game?

看看你自己的听力水平怎么样。

To see how you feel with listening?

好啊，我们来试试。

Yes, let's do it.

这个游戏在家里玩也很有意思，能让你大概了解一下自己的听力处于什么水平。

So this is a really fun game to play at home if you want to get a sense of where you sit when it comes to listening.

那我们就随便聊聊。

So we're just going to talk.

我先开个头，就模拟一下咱们讨论去哪儿吃饭的场景。

I'm going to start a conversation as if, we're just going to create a mock moment about where we're going to go to eat.

行吗？

Okay?

但我跟你对话的时候，你得接着我的话往下说，用我最后一个词的最后一个字母来开头。

But you have to continue the conversation with me as I'm having it with you by starting your sentence with the letter of my last word.

这个游戏叫“最后一个词，最后一个字母”。

So it's called Last Word, Last Letter.

好的。

Okay.

所以不管我说的最后一个词是什么，你得想想它的最后一个字母，然后用那个字母来起你的新句子。

So whatever my last word is, you have to think about the last letter and then start the new sentence with the last letter of the last word.

明白了。

Got it.

我们会继续这次对话。

And we're going to continue the conversation.

好的。

Yes.

明白吗？

Okay?

明白。

Okay.

准备好了吗？

You ready?

那就开始吧。

Let's do it.

好的。

Okay.

我以前从没玩过这个。

I've never done this before.

好的，那太棒了。

Okay, that's fantastic.

那就开始吧。

Let's do it.

太棒了。

That's fantastic.

我确实做过。

I have.

好的。

Okay.

听着，Jay，我迫不及待今晚要去找洛杉矶最好的韩式烤肉店了。

Listen, Jay, I can't wait tonight to find the best Korean barbecue restaurant in LA.

我觉得我对这些店有点了解，但我想知道你喜欢的菜系是什么。

And I feel like I have a good sense of them, but I want to know what kind of cuisine you like.

对我来说，任何韩式料理都很棒。

Every Korean cuisine to me is fantastic.

但我特别喜欢神户牛肉。

But I especially love Kobe beef.

我喜欢自己动手在烤架上烤的那种感觉。

I love it when you grill it on the barbecue yourself.

我喜欢那种自己动手的用餐方式。

I love being able to dine with that kind of style.

所以就是自己烤来吃。

So you cook it yourself.

感觉有点—

Feeling a little-

有点—

A little

……不知道该去哪里。

... confused About where to go.

我觉得我得跟团队里的几个人聊聊，他们可能对哪里能找到这种食物比较有了解，因为我是吃素的。

I think there's a few people on my team that I'd have to speak to, and I think they might have a good sense of where we will be able to find that kind of food, because I'm plant-based.

哦。

Oh.

是的，所以我不太清楚。

Yeah, so I wouldn't know.

所以我需要去跟我团队里的几个人聊聊，问问他们在这方面最推荐的都有什么。

So I need to go and talk to a few people on my team and check in with them as to what their top recommendations are when it comes to that.

太好了，因为这样我也了解了你一些。

That's great, because now I've learned something about you, too.

而且你也可以烤蘑菇。

And you can also grill mushrooms.

我们可以烤茄子。

We can grill eggplant.

我们可以做很多不同的东西，所以别觉得去不了好的韩式烧烤店，因为做法有很多种。

We can cook so many different things, so don't feel like you can't go to a great Korean barbecue place because there's so many ways to do it.

明白了。

Got it.

你看，我们玩的这个简单的游戏，你觉得在认知上困难吗？

So you see, with this simple game that we're playing, did it feel cognitively difficult?

感觉不太一样。

It was different.

是不一样，对吧？

It's different, right?

非常不一样。

It's very different.

而且当你—

And as you-

因为我在听最后一个词。

Because I'm listening for the last word.

是的。

Yes.

然后我还得听最后一个字母。

I then have to listen for the last letter.

对。

Yes.

所以我得停下来，认真想想接下来该说什么。

I then have to pause to actually think about what I'm going to say.

没错。

Yes.

那玩这个游戏之后，你具体是怎么做的呢？

So what are you doing then as a result of this game?

所以你们在家玩的时候，最好的做法是玩完之后坐下来，用一到十分来打分，觉得有多难？

So as you're playing this at home, the best way to do it is after you played it, just sit down and write on a scale of one to 10, how hard was it?

如果特别难，就写10分。

And if it was really hard, write 10.

如果觉得特别简单，闭着眼睛都能做，那就写1分。

If it was really easy, you can do this in your sleep, then write one.

但这能给你一个参考，看看你的听力水平怎么样。

But it gives you an indicator of how well you listen.

因为如果你觉得很难，那是因为通常别人说话的时候，我们已经在想自己要怎么回应了。

Because if you find it really difficult, it's difficult because often when people are speaking, we're already thinking about our response that we want to give.

而这个游戏逼得你，在我讲完之前，你不能想自己要说的话。

Whereas this game forces you, you can't think of what you want to say until I finish.

所以我听你说的每一个字，等你讲完了，我才开始组织我的句子。

So I'm listening to every word you're saying, and then once you finish, then I can form my sentence.

我就是这样学会更好地倾听的。

That's how I learned to listen better.

因为我第一次玩这个游戏的时候，不只是停顿。

Because when I first played this, I wasn't just pausing.

我磕磕绊绊，接不上对话，因为脑子里太乱了。

I stumbled, and I couldn't continue the conversation because I was so in my head.

而我也给了你更诚实的回答。

And I gave you a more honest answer.

所以当你说完那个“F”的时候，我就说：‘我有点不太清楚……’

So when you ended the line with an F, and I went, "I'm feeling a little confused about where..."

那是最诚实、最感性的回应。

That was the most honest, emotional response.

因为如果我们没有练习过那个，我的回应就会是，"哦，太棒了，兄弟。

Because if we hadn't had practiced that, my response would've been like, "Oh, that's awesome, man.

真酷。

Cool.

太好了。"

That's great."

就像，"是的，我会问团队成员..."

Like, "Yeah, I'll ask one of the team..."

而实际上，这会让对话失去所有价值。

And it just actually would've lost all the value of the conversation.

因为现在我不只是听觉上在场，我也从情感上不在场。

Because now I'm not only present from an auditory perspective, I'm not present from an emotional perspective.

因为对我说出，"嘿，其实我有点困惑，在洛杉矶我们能在哪里找到合适的地方，因为我是素食主义者。"

Because it was good for me to say, "Hey, I'm a little confused, actually, about where we could go for that in LA, because I'm plant-based.

我真的不太清楚。

I don't really know."

然后我们聊了起来，感觉跟以前不一样。

And we got into a conversation that I felt was different.

我很喜欢这样。

So I liked that.

我特别喜欢这样。

I liked that a lot.

我觉得这游戏特别棒，能让你更活在当下，因为我们在Instagram上看到那些帖子，对吧？

I think it's such a wonderful game that makes you more present, because we see the posts on Instagram, right?

要更活在当下。

Be more present.

今天要好好陪伴孩子和亲人。

Be present today with your kids and your loved ones.

但具体该怎么做呢？

But how do you do that pragmatically?

这真是个好玩的小技巧。

This is just such a fun little hack to play with.

再提醒一下，今晚就和你的伴侣聊天时试试，强迫自己这么做。

And again, just do it tonight at a conversation with your partner, and just force yourself.

我得继续对话，但我必须用他们句子的最后一个词或最后一个字来开头。

I've got to continue the conversation, but I have to just start my sentence with the last word and last letter of their sentence.

我很期待大家去尝试。

I'm excited for people to try that.

然后我再补充一点，让它更实用，因为倾听有四种方式，对吧？

And then I'll add on another thing here to make it really pragmatic, because there's four modalities for listening, right?

这个游戏突出的是语言层面的倾听。

And that game highlights the modality of the words.

你真的专注于他们在说什么。

You're really focusing on the words of what they're saying here.

但这只是其中一部分。

But that's one component.

所以我觉得这是我们大家最常听到的一种方式。

So I think that's the most common component we all listen to.

但如果只听到字面意思，比如我说“没事”或“没关系”，用很中性的语气说出来，那是一个意思。

But if you just hear words alone, if I say the words, "That's fine," and I say it in a neutral way, well, that's a meaning.

但我可以用不同的语气说出来。

But I could say it differently with my voice.

所以如果我说“没事”或者“没关系”，那可能其实并不好。

So if I say, "That's fine," it probably isn't fine.

听起来有点，有点那种——

It sounds a little bit, there's a little bit of-

……有点不开心的感觉。

... upset there.

我也可以说“对，没事。”

And I can say, "Yeah, that's fine."

是的，那可能真的没事。

Yeah, that's probably fine.

或者，“就这样吗？”

Or, "That's fine?"

所以在质疑，比如，真的是这样吗？

So you're questioning it, like, is it really?

同样的，你也可以注意音调的变化。

So again, you can also listen to the vocal changes.

所以随着你在这个游戏中慢慢熟练，不要只听字面意思，还要听听音调的变化。

So as you get better with that game, don't just listen to the words, listen to the vocal changes.

这能说明很多问题。

That says a lot.

一个平时说话很平静的人，突然说快了，说明他紧张了。

Someone who normally speaks in a very calm way, speaking fast, they're nervous.

这里面肯定有事。

Something's going on there.

对我来说，这是一个线索，对吧？

To me, that's a thread, right?

或者有时候你可以听听对方的肢体语言。

Or sometimes you can listen to the body language.

一个平时很自信的人，某天你看到他们说话时不停地搓手，那就说明有问题了。

Someone who's very confident, and then you see them on a day, they're wringing their hands while they're talking.

那是一个信号。

That's a thread.

如果这个信号加上声音上的变化，再加上特定的用词，那就是一个组合。

And if you see that thread paired with a vocal thread paired with certain language, that's a cluster.

一旦你发现了这样的组合，就要特别留意。

And now if you see a cluster, lean into that.

这样你就能让人觉得被认真倾听、被看见、被理解。

And that's how you make people feel so heard, so seen, so understood.

当你在听对方说话时，注意用词、声音变化和肢体语言的变化，你会慢慢训练自己去发现这些细节。

And as you listen to the words, vocal changes, the body language changes, you train yourself to see these things.

你会开始发现，其实有很多机会让我们去陪伴我们所爱的人，去帮助那些我们需要服务的人。

You'll start to learn there are so many opportunities for us to be able to be there for the people we love, for the people we serve.

可能是客户。

It could be a client.

然后你就回应他说：“嘿，看起来你还好吧。”

And then you just reflect back, "Hey, it looks like it's not fine."

“你想聊聊吗？”

"Do you want to talk about it?"

你只是把门打开。

And you just open the door.

要不要走进来，就看他们自己了。

It's up to them whether or not they want to walk through.

现在没人这么做了。

No one does that anymore.

我很少看到有人能从这些层面去听，这样永远也打不开第四层。

I rarely see people be able to listen on these layers, which then never unlocks the fourth.

因为当你仔细听对方说话的内容、语气和肢体语言，你就能感受到他们的情绪。

Because as you listen to the words more carefully, the voice and the body language, now you get a sense of how people feel.

现在你心想：“哦，好的。

Now you go, "Oh, okay.

其实我能感觉到他们谈起这个很兴奋，所以我想多问些问题，和他们一起兴奋，分享那份激动。”

Actually, I can sense they're excited to talk about this, so I'm going to ask more questions about it to join in on the excitement with them, to share the excitement with them."

或者，“这里有点伤感。

Or, "There's some sadness here.

也许我会打开那扇门，看看他们愿不愿意聊聊。”

Maybe I'll open the door and see if they want to chat about it."

所以先从“好事坏事”开始，但要意识到还有其他层次。

So start with High-Low Buffalo, but then recognize there are other layers here.

当你层层深入时——这正是你擅长的——你会在别人身上注意到这些，我在你的采访里也看到了。

And as you peel back these layers, and that's what you do so well, is that you notice it in people, and I see it in your interviews.

你看到别人身上的这些，心里会“啊”一下。

You see it in people, and you go, "Ah."

然后下次聊天时，你就会顺着那个点聊下去。

And then the next time you talk, you pull on that.

然后你会说，'嘿，我以前就注意到了'，然后，哦，那感觉太美好了。

And you go, "Hey, I noticed that before," and then, oh, it's beautiful.

但这是一项任何人都能学会的技能。

But it's a skill anybody can learn.

对。

Yes.

不只是Jay或者我。

It's not just Jay or me.

每个人都能学会。

Everybody can learn this.

而且这让一切都变得有意义多了。

And it makes everything so much more meaningful.

哦。

Oh.

我最近读到的一个统计数据想和你分享，那就是只有16%的员工觉得他们和经理的最后一次对话是有意义的。

The last statistic that I read that I wanted to share with you is only 16% of employees feel their last conversation with their manager was meaningful.

我想问你，我们怎么说话才能让别人真正听进去，并且产生意义？

And I wanted to ask you, how do we speak in a way that people actually listen and create meaning?

因为我觉得这正是我们在每一次互动中寻求的。

Because I think that's what we're looking for from every interaction.

我们想要的是——

We're looking for-

……就像今天你来这里一样，我希望和你进行一次有意义的对话。

... like even when you're coming here today, I want to have a meaningful conversation with you.

当我跟人交谈时，即使我们不会直接把它放在脑海最前面，我们真正希望的其实是——我希望我们能有有意义的交流。

When I speak to someone, even if we're not thinking it directly at the forefront of our mind, what we're really hoping for is, I hope that we have a meaningful exchange.

而且，意义可以是好玩的、开心的、令人愉悦的，也可以是深刻的。

And by the way, meaning can be fun, it can be happy, it can be joyful, it can be deep.

它不一定要很严肃。

It doesn't have to be serious.

跟我聊聊这个吧。

Talk to me about that.

我们怎么说话才能让人真正听进去，并且建立起有意义的联系呢？

How do we speak in a way that people actually listen and we have a meaningful connection?

这是两回事。

They're two different things.

我觉得，要让别人愿意听你说话，你得学会像演奏乐器一样，让自己的表达能吸引人，有变化，不要陷入单调。如果你完全不运用你的身体语言和声音这些“乐器”，那你说的话就非要精彩得不得了不可。

I think speaking in a way that people will listen is you learning how to play your instrument in a way that engages others, that has variety, that doesn't fall victim to monotony If you don't play with your instrument at all, being your body language and your voice, then your content better be damn good what you're saying.

你得告诉我人生的意义才行。

You better be telling me the meaning of life.

明白吗？

Okay?

那我绝对洗耳恭听。

Then I'm all ears.

你说话的方式我根本不在乎，对吧？

I don't care how you talk, right?

但如果你的内容不是十全十美，那你就得想办法吸引我。

But if it's not 10 out of 10 content at all times, then you got to engage me.

如果你想让我更投入，你就得更有感染力。

If you want me to be more engaged, you need to be more engaging.

现实就是这样。

It's the reality of the situation.

再说一次，我很喜欢这个比喻。

Again, I love this metaphor.

就算贝多芬写出了最伟大的乐曲，如果你演奏得不好，听起来也不会让人觉得好。

You could have the greatest music written by Beethoven, but if you don't play it well, it won't be perceived that way.

所以要好好对待你的工作、你的内容，或者是你的专长、你的天赋和才能。

So do your work and do your content or maybe it's your expertise or the gifts and talents that you have, do it justice.

学会怎么演奏音乐。

Learn how to play the music.

学会怎么把自己的乐器玩好。

Learn how to play with your instrument well.

深入对话，就是要让对话更深入。

The depth, it's about taking the conversation further.

如果你完全不接这个话头，别人就会觉得你没在听他们说话。

People don't feel heard when you don't pull on the thread at all.

比如有人走进经理办公室说：“嘿，我真的压力很大。”

So someone comes into the manager's office, "Hey, I'm feeling really stressed.

“我觉得工作太多了。”

I'm feeling overworked.

“我觉得我总是在加班。”

I'm feeling like I'm having to work overtime.

“我下班后还留在公司。”

I'm staying back after hours."

然后经理可能只会说：“哦，挺好的。”

And then the manager might just say, "Oh, great.

“不，谢谢你分享这些。”

No, thank you for sharing that."

我们刚才说的，怎么让他们觉得你有深度、有连接、关心他们，其实很简单，就是注意到他们听起来和看起来有多疲惫，然后问问题并回应说：‘嘿，再多告诉我一些。’”

What we just said before, how do you make them feel like there's depth, like there's connection, like you care, is simply now recognizing and seeing how defeated they sound and look, and then asking the question and reflecting, "Hey, tell me more about that."

到底是什么原因导致的呢？

"What's causing that?"

对我来说，当你察觉到这些情绪聚集点时，关键是要保持一种好奇的心态。

So to me, it's a mindset of curiosity when you notice the clusters.

所以，当你发现这些情绪聚集的时候，一定要在这些时刻保持强烈的好奇心。

So when you notice those clusters, be really curious in these moments.

每当出现强烈的情绪波动时，无论是悲伤、沮丧还是兴奋，都要学会提升自己的感知力。一旦捕捉到这种信号，不管具体是什么事，都要下意识地追问三个后续问题。

Anytime there's a peak emotion, whether it be sadness or frustration or even happiness, learn to develop your senses so that when you sense that, you automatically now ask three follow-up questions regardless of what that thing is.

明白了。

Got it.

如果是兴奋的话，那就直接说："嘿，你听起来特别兴奋。"

So if it's excitement, then just go, "Hey, you sound really excited.

发生什么事了？

What's going on?

是不是有什么好事发生了？"

Something's happening."

所以现在你可以分享他们的喜悦了。

So now you get to share in their joy.

他们可能会说：“哦，Vinh，我刚刚买了三只羊驼。”

So they might say, "Oh, Vinh, I just bought three alpacas."

继续追问。

Follow up.

别就此打住，说：“哦，那真酷。

Don't end it there and go, "Oh, that's really cool.

我一直想养羊驼。”

I've always thought about alpacas."

这样一来，话题就变成聊你自己了。

And now you're making it about you.

对。

Yes.

不，要让他们继续说下去。

No, keep it on them.

至少问三个问题。

Three questions at least.

“那你跟我说说，关于羊驼你了解到的最棒的事情是什么？”

"So tell me, what's the thing you learned about alpacas that's been awesome?"

“哦，Vinh，你知道吗，它们只在同一个地方拉屎，而且它们的屎可以马上当肥料用。”

"Oh, Vinh, did you know they poo in one spot only, and that you can use their poo immediately as manure?"

这真是一次真实的对话。

And this is a true conversation.

然后我就说：“哇，真厉害。

And so I'm like, "Wow, that's amazing.

那它们的屎可以直接用？

So you can use their poo straight away?

你不需要……”“不，你只需要把它和水混合，然后倒进去就行。”

You don't have to..." "No, you just mix it with water and you chuck it in."

那时候人们就会觉得，天哪，你真的很关心他们。

That is when people feel like, oh man, you really care.

其实只需要学会用心去听那些细节，不管对方情绪如何。

And all it takes is learning the sensitivity to be able to listen to those modalities regardless of the emotion.

一旦你察觉到，再问三个跟进的问题，这样就合理了。

Once you sense it, three follow-up questions there that makes sense.

就三个。

Just three.

哎呀，天哪。

Oh, gosh.

就这三点本身——

And that alone-

我特别喜欢这个。

I love that

就能让人感到……

... will just make people feel...

然后，也别怕分享你自己的经历。

And then don't be afraid to share yours after that.

对。

Yes.

这样一来，你说话的时候就不会觉得自己在抢话头，因为你已经察觉到对方的情绪峰值，先问完三个问题，然后就可以分享你自己的两点了。

That's how you can speak without feeling like you're taking over because you recognize, you sense the peak emotion, three questions on theirs, and now you can share two.

是啊，这个例子特别好。

Yeah, that's a great example.

我很喜欢那个三问法则——

I love the rule of three questions-

嗯，我也特别喜欢。

Yeah, I love that too

因为我们平时太习惯别人讲一个事情——

... because we're so used to someone sharing one thing-

只讲一次。

One thing once

——然后我们就又回到自己这边了。

... and then we go back.

对。

Yep.

而且它就是——

And it's just-

对。

Yep

突然之间，就像你说的，你可能自己都没意识到，但你已经在主导对话了。

... all of a sudden, like you said, you feel like you may not even be conscious of it, but you are taking over.

你刚才可能没有削弱对方，也许“削弱”这个词有点重，但你让对方觉得他们的故事就到此为止了，现在轮到你的故事了，哪怕你讲的是羊驼或者类似的事情。

And you've just, maybe not undermined, maybe that's a strong word, but you've made the other person feel that their experience now stops there, and now it's about your experience, even if it's of alpacas and the same thing or whatever it may be.

我觉得人们这样做并不是出于恶意。

I don't find that people tend to do this and take over with ill intent.

是因为我们想建立联系。

It's because we want to connect.

我想让对方知道，我也有养宠物。

I want the other person to know that I've also got pets.

我家里养了鸡，对吧？

I've got chickens at home, right?

但无意中，你就造成了隔阂。

But unintentionally, you've then just created disconnect.

是的。

Yes.

当你想要建立连接时，不幸的是，我们试图去连接，却失败了。

When you are trying for connection, which is the unfortunate thing, is that we try for it, yet we fail at it.

杰，这又回到了我们的旅程上。关于播客，我不知道你怎么样，但我不得不学会这一点。

And it goes back again, Jay, is that on our journey, I don't know about you and podcasting, but I've had to learn this.

我觉得人们会有这种感觉：我要么擅长，要么不擅长。

And I think people have this sense of, I'm either good at it or I'm not.

所以，不，停下来。

So no, stop.

这其实是一项技能——

It's like this is a skill-

对。

Yes

……这是一个可以学习的技能。

... that you can learn.

是的。

Yes.

我觉得我努力做的，就是把它拆解成最简单的形式。

And I think that's what I try to do, is break it down into the most simple forms.

学会使用你的乐器，也就是你的声音和身体；然后学会演奏美妙的音乐，也就是讲故事；最后学会欣赏别人的音乐。

Learn how to use your instrument, which is your voice and your body, and then learn how to play great music, which is storytelling, and then learn how to appreciate other people's music.

学会倾听别人演奏的音乐。

Learn how to listen to the music that other people are playing.

学会捕捉他们演奏中那些细微的差别。

Learn how to listen to the little nuances in the music they're playing.

学会不断突破，比如他们可能会演奏从未公开过的曲子，你是第一个听到的，这或许会激发你去演奏那些你原本都不知道自己会弹的歌。

Learn how to push further, so they might play songs they've never played for anybody, that you may be the first to hear, which then may inspire you to play songs you didn't even know you had.

这就是为什么这些对话这么美好，因为我不知道它会往哪里发展，但它是基于你听得这么仔细，你发现了些什么，然后我们一起去探索对话的旅程。

That's why these conversations are so beautiful, because I don't know where it's going, but it's based on you listening so well, you finding something, and then us just going on the journey of conversational discovery.

是的，完全同意。

Yeah, absolutely.

我喜欢这个，也喜欢你这样拆解那三个方面。

I love that, and I love the way you've broken down those three.

我觉得人们在这方面最担心的第一件事就是怎么给人留下好的第一印象。

I think the first thing people are worried about when it comes to that is how do I make a good first impression?

大家都很害怕。

And people are scared.

我该怎么被评价？

How am I going to be judged?

我该怎么被看待？

How am I going to be perceived?

我能融入吗？

Do I fit in?

我属于这里吗？

Do I belong?

我有趣吗？

Am I interesting?

当人们去参加社交活动、去面试、或者加入一个新的朋友圈，甚至只是去朋友的派对，而且那里会有更多人时。

When someone's going to a networking event, they're coming into an interview, they're going along to a new group of friends, maybe even just a friend's party, and there's going to be more people there.

人们怎么能确信自己能留下好的第一印象呢？

How can people feel confident that they're making a good first impression?

我觉得最棒的方式之一就是去适应对方的状态。

I think one of the most wonderful ways is to meet people where they are.

这就是为什么我教学生时特别强调要拓展你的表达方式，玩转你的声音。

And this is why something I focus so much on when I'm teaching my students is you have to stretch your instrument, play with your voice.

尝试用你从未试过的方式使用你的声音。

Try things with your voice you never tried before.

如果你平时很安静，试着大声一点；但如果你总是很吵，试着温柔一点，看看会有什么效果。

If you're quiet, try being louder, but if you're really loud all the time, try being a little softer and seeing what that does.

所以你在各个方面都在伸展。

So you stretch in every sense.

就像瑜伽一样，你不断拉伸，然后你就会获得以前没有的活动范围。

Like yoga, you keep stretching, and then you'll have a range of motion that you didn't have before.

所以当你带着更大的活动范围和更多的声音控制力去参加这些社交活动时，现在你可以驾驭所有音色了。

So then when you're going into these networking functions with a larger range of motion, which more access to your instrument, now you can access all the keys on the instrument.

然后当你遇到人时，你会想，哦，好吧，这群人挺吵的，挺闹的。

Then when you meet people, you go, "Oh, okay, so this group, quite loud and rowdy."

对吧？

Okay?

所以他们是个有趣的群体，也许你以前会避开他们，但现在你有了完全的掌控力，就顺着他们的方式来。

So they're a fun group, and you may avoid them in the past, but because now you've got access to your entire instrument, meet them where they are.

所以如果你想给那群人留下好印象，那就更像他们一点。

So if you want to make a good impression with that group Then be more like them.

然后人们马上会说，哦，但那太假了，太做作了。

And then people immediately go, "Oh, but that's fake and phony."

这并不假，也不做作。

That's not fake and phony.

这是你调整自己，以便能在对方的位置上与人相遇，在我看来，这是优秀沟通者的一个了不起的标志。

That's you adjusting yourself to be able to meet people where they are, which is, to me, an incredible sign of a great communicator.

因为我不是只待在自己的世界里说：‘我不会做你所做的事。’

Because I'm not just going to be in my world going, "I'm not going to do what you do.

‘你就得迁就我。’

You just have to meet me where I am."

你是在为别人着想。

You're being considerate.

他们玩得很开心，那很好。

They're having a great time, great.

那我会配合他们的状态。

So then I would match them where they are.

但你不必一直待在那儿。

But you don't have to stay there.

所以如果你遇到一个很安静的群体，而你天生很吵，那没关系。

So if you're meeting a group that's really quiet, you're naturally really loud, that's okay.

顺着他们的节奏来。

Meet them where they are.

所以你可以走进去说："嘿，我叫Vinh。

So come in and be like, "Hey, my name's Vinh.

我只是想自我介绍一下。

I just want to introduce myself.

你们介意我加入对话吗？"

Do you mind if I join the conversation?"

顺着他们的节奏，然后慢慢把他们带到你想去的地方。

Meet them where they are, and then slowly take them to where you want to go.

然后慢慢提高音量，让身体语言更有活力一点。

And slowly add a little more volume, bring a little more life to your body language.

对我来说，这是最有用的建议，因为它取决于具体情境。

That, to me, is the most powerful tip because it's context-dependent.

这不是说，每次见人都要用力握手。

It's not saying, "Always meet somebody with a firm grip.

也不是说，进门的时候一定要面带微笑。

Always smile when you walk in."

因为要看具体情况。

Because it's so contextual.

我完全同意你的看法。

I couldn't agree with you more.

你可能会带着满脸笑容走进一个房间，结果发现走错房间了。

And you could walk into a room with a big smile on your face, and it's the wrong room.

葬礼上可别这么做。

Don't do it at a funeral.

没错。

Totally.

因为别人会觉得那个人是你杀死的。

Because they'll think you murdered the person.

是的。

Yes.

他们会以为你谋杀了那个人，是的。

They'll think you murdered the person, yeah.

还有关于用力握手的观点真是太对了。

And the firm grip handshake point is so true.

有些人握手很轻柔。

Some people shake softly.

我不会使劲握他们的手。

I'm not going to death grip them.

然后我会回以轻柔的握手，因为我感觉到了，也许他们是比较温柔的人。

Then I'll return that because I sensed it, because maybe they're someone who's softer.

因为目标不是谁的握手更有力。

Because the goal is not who has the more powerful handshake.

目标是建立连接。

The goal is connection.

这就是目标。

That's the goal.

我觉得这就是为什么我们需要真正熟悉这个工具，学会以各种方式使用它。

And I think that's why we need to really be familiar with the instrument, learn how to play it in every single way.

要习惯使用你的手势。

Be comfortable with using your hand gestures.

天哪，我有些学生连手都不敢用。

Gosh, some of my students are afraid to even use their hands.

所以如果你连用都不敢用，你就没有那个活动范围，永远也不会用它。

So if you're afraid to even use it, you don't have that range of motion, you're never going to use it.

对。

Yes.

所以我们天生就有能力做这一切，这真是不可思议，Jay。

So it's wild that we were born with the ability to do all of this, Jay.

我两岁的女儿，她能弹出所有音符，唱出所有歌曲，还能做出各种古怪的动作。

My daughter, who's two, she can play all the notes, sing all the songs, move in ridiculous ways.

她对什么都跟着摇摆。

She bops to everything.

这很美。

It's beautiful.

但随着我们长大，我们开始失去音乐。

But then, as we grow older, we start to lose the music.

我们开始失去当下的存在感。

We start to lose the presence.

我们失去了身体的律动，因为我们在意别人的看法。

We lose the movement because we're afraid of what other people think.

不过，大多数人其实并不在意你。

Most people aren't thinking about you, though.

而且，人们看你的方式也各不相同。

And people don't have the same perception either.

我常想，我们走进一个房间，比如那是个安静的房间，然后有个声音特别大的人走进了对话，他们似乎就掌控了整个对话。

I was thinking that a lot of the time, we walk into a room, and let's say it's a quiet room, and then someone really loud comes into that conversation, and they seem to be owning the conversation.

然后你走开的时候就想，‘哎呀，我希望我也能像那个人一样。’

And you walk away thinking, "Oh, I wish I could be like that person."

但事实是，房间里其他人都没这么觉得。

And the truth is, no one else in the group felt that way.

其他人其实都觉得那个人进来把整个气氛都搞砸了。

Everyone else actually felt that that person came and disrupted the whole mood.

但你自己心里却想，‘哦，那个能自如应对全场的吵闹的人，看起来最有气场。’

But in your head, you think, "Oh, that loud person who can kind of navigate the room, they look like the most powerful."

所以有时候，我们以为或者感受到的房间里最有气场的人，并不一定是别人眼里最有气场的。

And so sometimes, what I think we believe or perceive as powerful in a room isn't what everyone else perceives as powerful.

有时候大家觉得那个人很粗鲁、很自大，或者就是在炫耀什么的。

Sometimes people feel that person was abrasive or arrogant or showing off or whatever it may be.

所以你看别人的方式，也跟别人看别人的方式不一样。

And so the way you perceive people is also not the way everyone else perceives people.

所以你得意识到，你走进一个房间，其实是在找跟你合拍的人，而不是在那儿评判，‘哇，这个厉害，那个不行。’

And so it's important to recognize that you're almost going into a room, finding the people who are going to be a match with you, rather than going, "Oh, that's impressive and that's not."

我觉得你刚才说的其实就是情商。

I feel like what you're teasing out there is emotional intelligence.

我真的觉得情商很大一部分归结于倾听。

So much of emotional intelligence, I really believe, comes down to listening.

因为你需要能读懂当下的氛围。

Because you have to be able to read the moment.

因为如果你是那个说话大声的人，首先，没人告诉过他们这一点。

Because if you are that loud person, that loud person, A, no one's told them.

其次，他们在交流的时候也不观察别人。

B, they don't watch other people as they're communicating.

因为如果我突然说话很大声，然后我注意到你的眼睛睁大了。

Because if all of a sudden, I'm really loud now, and I just notice your eyes widened.

而我能感觉到这一点，因为我在学着留意这些。

But I can sense that because I'm learning to look for that.

如果你能用眼睛、心、思想和耳朵去倾听，你就能知道自己什么时候做得过火了。

If you have that ability to listen now with your eyes, your heart, your mind, your ears, now you know when you're being too much.

现在你知道什么时候自己太内敛了，需要再放开一点。

Now you know when you're being too little, and you need to be bigger.

不然的话，你会被忽视的。

Otherwise, you're going to be invisible.

这在给人第一印象时特别有帮助，因为在某些场合，安静、沉稳、从容，才是最好的第一印象。

So much of that helps when you're having a first impression, because in some rooms, being quiet, being calm, and being composed, that's the best first impression you can make.

但在另一些场合，如果你不够大声，没人会注意到你。

In other rooms, if you're not loud enough, no one hears you.

有趣的是，人们喜欢下这种一刀切的结论，因为这样能做出好看的自媒体视频，比如“最镇定的人就是话说得最少的那个人”。

And it's so interesting because people like to make these blanket statements because it makes a great social media video, is like the calmest person is the quietest person who says the least.

对，但那要看场合。

Yeah, in some contexts.

在另一些场合，讲出最精彩的故事、最有魅力的人，才是全场焦点。

In others, it's the person who tells the best story, who's the most charismatic, that owns that room.

完全同意。

Totally.

这就是为什么我觉得现在给别人提建议时特别在意。

That's why I think now I'm so conscious of when I'm sharing advice with people.

我会分享那种能鼓励对方去培养技能、自己想办法提升的建议，而不是直接给一个固定的套路。

Share advice that encourages the person to develop a skill to work out how they can improve themselves as opposed to giving a given formula.

因为我觉得写这本书让我学到的是，我一直在避免像杰这样的人常说的那种‘你应该做的十大件事’之类的建议。

Because I think what I've learned in writing this is that what I've avoided, Jay, is, "Here are the top 10 things you should do."

因为那十大件事是我从‘我教了这么多学生’出发的。

Because that top 10 things is me going from, "Oh, I've taught all these students now.

‘他们最常见的问题是什么？’

What's the most common things?"

但我担心的是，泛泛的建议只会带来泛泛的结果。

But I worry about that because general advice leads to general results.

而我更希望鼓励大家去玩那个‘高低水牛’游戏，然后自己心里对照一下。

Whereas what I'm hoping to encourage people to listen is that go away and play that High-Low Buffalo game, and then check with yourself.

你有没有冒出那些内心的想法？

Were you thinking those internal thoughts?

你当时是不是在担心，‘哦，这事是不是太大了？’

Were you worried about, "Oh, is that too big of a deal?"

写下你下次可以改进的地方。

Write down what you could do to improve the next time.

对。

Yes.

倾听。

Listening.

你不擅长用什么方式倾听？

What are you not good at listening with?

你擅长用眼睛倾听吗？

Are you good at listening with your eyes?

你不擅长吗？

Are you not?

所以你要自己列出十件事，因为一旦你有了自己的十件事清单，成效就会成倍增长。

So you create your own list of 10 things, because once you have your own list of 10 things, exponential results now.

这是专门为你量身定制的清单，而不是你找 ChatGPT 要的那种通用模板。

It's a list made for you as opposed to a generic one you asked ChatGPT for.

我完全同意你的观点，很高兴你在书里和工作中都在践行这一点。我记得十年前我刚来美国的时候，也在舞台上演讲过。当时大多数从事励志或激励类演讲的人，名气都比我大，气场也比我强。

I actually fully agree with you, and I'm glad you're doing that in your book and in your work because I remember when I came to the States 10 years ago, and I was speaking on stages, and most people who sit under any category of motivational speaking or inspirational speaking, they were much bigger than me and spoke bigger than me.

我说的意思是，他们在肢体存在感上更强。

And what I mean by that is they had a bigger physical presence.

我本人个子比较矮小。

I'm a smaller human in general.

你个子真高。

You're so tall.

我没那么高吧。

I'm not that tall.

我觉得有时候大家见到我本人，会说：‘哦，我还以为你在直播里更高呢。’

I think sometimes when people meet me in person, they're like, "Oh, I thought you were taller on live."

真的吗？

Oh, really?

大家都觉得我比较矮。

People think I'm shorter.

真的吗？

Really?

你特别高啊。

You're super tall.

还有一点就是，有些人在舞台上声音很大，气场很强。

And then the other one was this idea of people were bigger with their voice on stage.

就算我在舞台上面对很多观众的时候，我的声音也不是很大。

And even when I'm on stage, and I've done huge audiences, I'm not that loud.

因为那不是我，也不是我想用我的声音的方式。

Because it's just not who I am, and it's not how I want to use my instrument.

一开始我就在想，我是不是要像那些人一样喊出‘你什么都能做到’这种话。

And I, in the beginning, started to think, do I need to be one of these people that's like, "You can do anything."

‘你可以……’

"You can..."

我当时就想，但那就是，从能力上来说，如果我愿意的话，我是可以做到的。

And I was like, but that's just, I can do that if I wanted to from a capability perspective.

但那并不是我觉得和对方交流时应该有的方式，那也不是我激励别人、鼓舞他们的方式。

But it's not how I feel I want to resonate with the person I'm talking to, and that's not my way of motivating someone, inspiring them.

然后我开始意识到，其实我更喜欢在台上做一个安静、有思考、更镇定的人，而不是那种“你可以冲破任何障碍”的人。

And I started to realize that, oh, I enjoyed being the quieter, thoughtful, calmer person on stage, rather than the, "You can break through any wall."

这并没有什么不对。

And there's nothing wrong with that.

是的。

No.

我喜欢这样。

I like it.

我其实特别喜欢……

I actually love-

……听这种内容。

... listening to stuff like that.

但那不是真实的我，也不是我想成为的人。

But that's not me, and that's not who I want to be.

所以你的意思是，如果有人对我说：“杰，你需要加把劲。

And so what you're saying to me is, if someone had said to me, "Jay, you need to ramp it up.

演讲结尾要加快语速，还需要……”

You need to speed up at the end of your speech, and you need..."

我会说：“对，但那不合适。

I would've been like, "Yeah, but it doesn't fit.

感觉不对。”

It doesn't feel good."

这是个品味问题。

It's taste.

你有自己独特的风格。

You have a certain flavor.

你喜欢的音乐类型也是独特的。

You have a certain genre of music you like to play.

不过，我觉得你已经探索过了。

However, I believe you've explored it.

是的。

Yes.

你是一个已经去过并探索了所有不同风味的人。

You're someone who's gone and explored all the different flavors.

所以，我喜欢这样想，尤其是当你坐在那里想：‘好吧，我该从哪里开始？’

So the way that I like to think about it, especially if you're sitting there and you're thinking, "Well, where do I begin?

我该从哪儿开始？

Where do I start?

如果我不认为自己是一个很好的沟通者，我该怎么看待这整个旅程？

If I don't see myself as a great communicator, how can I think about this whole journey?

我该怎么办？

What do I do?"

嗯，就像想想一位伟大的厨师。

Well, it's like, think about a great chef.