布里吉特·巴尔：改变一切的诊断（她毫无准备的现实以及由此获得的视角）

我可能不再给人倒杯子了，但我在山谷里照样活得有滋有味。

My days of filling up cups at sir may be over, but I'm still loving life in the valley.

山那边的日子确实挺成熟了，可在我自己的播客《非传统La la》里，我还是那个你要么爱死、要么恨死的La la。

Life on the other side of the hill is giving grown up vibes, but over here on my podcast, untraditionally La la, I'm still that La la you either love or love to hate.

我最近可真是啥都跟粉丝、家人，还有前冤家汤姆·施瓦茨掏心窝子了。

I've been full on oversharing with fans, family, and former frenemies like Tom Schwartz.

施瓦茨上节目那会儿，我可憋着一肚子火要跟他算账。

I had a little bone to pick with Schwartzie when he came on the pod.

你就不觉得愧疚吗？居然说我是山寨主妇？

You don't feel bad that you told me I was a bootleg housewife?

我非得把披萨甩你腿上不可。

I must flip to pizza in your lap.

气死我了。

Was so pissed.

我压根儿把这事儿忘光了，直到现在才想起来。

I literally forgot about that until just now.

对不起。

Sorry.

我不想把这事全怪到那通全员电话上。

I don't wanna I don't wanna blame all call that.

这事我得怪到那通全员电话头上。

I gotta blame that one on the all call.

这事儿讲的是笑对生活，从生活里学点东西。

This is about laughing and learning when life just keeps on life in.

我犯错，就是为了让你们不用再犯。

Because I make mistakes so that you guys don't have to.

我们在成长，在 thriving，没错，有时候也快撑不住了，但我们都带着爱在坚持。

We're growing, we're thriving, and, yes, sometimes we're barely surviving, but we do it all with love.

乱七八糟的。

It's unruly.

无所畏惧。

It's unafraid.

这节目可真不按常理出牌。

It's untraditionally La la.

去 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客，或者你常用的播客平台，收听《不按常理出牌》。

Listen to untraditionally La la on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

2023 年，前《单身汉》明星克莱顿·埃卡德卷入了一场亲子丑闻。

In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.

随后的家事法庭听证会暴露了她说法中的诸多矛盾。

The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.

这开启了一场长达数年的官司，只为查明真相。

This began a years long court battle to prove the truth.

你是不是在别人的检测报告上改了两次？

You doctored this particular test twice in someone's correct?

我只改过一次。

I doctored the test once.

最后是靠一帮网络侦探才把这案子给破了。

It took an army of Internet detectives to crack the case.

我想让大伙儿看看自己的税钱到底花在了哪儿。

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

阳光是最好的消毒剂。

Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.

他们发现了一个令人不安的模式。

They would uncover a disturbing pattern.

又有两个男人经历了同样的事。

Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

格雷格·奥莱斯比和迈克尔·曼奇尼。

Greg Olesby and Michael Mancini.

我整个人都震惊了。

My mind was blown.

我是斯蒂芬妮·杨。

I'm Stephanie Young.

欢迎收听《爱的陷阱》。

This is Love Trap.

劳拉，斯科茨代尔警局。

Laura, Scottsdale police.

随着剧情推进，劳拉·欧文斯终于付出了代价。

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

各位听众，马里科帕县突发新闻：劳拉·欧文斯已被起诉诈骗罪。

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.

在亚利桑那州，正义未得伸张，这事就没完。

This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.

欢迎在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客，或你常用的播客平台收听《爱的陷阱》。

Listen to Loved Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

当时你心里就没想过，为什么是我？

Was there no thought in your head at the time which was like, why me?

我都刚结婚，生活好不容易稳定下来，一切都在变好……

Like, you know, I've finally got married, like things are looking good, like I'm settled.

换作别人，大概都会想：老天爷，怎么偏偏现在？怎么偏偏是我？

I'm like, I feel like the natural reaction for a lot of people would just be like, god, why now, why me?

你还在做试管婴儿。

And you're going through IVF.

你知道，那段时间你生活中还发生了好多别的事。

Know, it's the amount, there's lots of other things happening in your life.

对。

Right.

那种想法有没有出现过？还是你太坚强了，压根不让自己去想？

Did that thought ever come up or were you too strong to let it come up?

没有。

No.

我的意思是，那种想法确实出现过。

I mean, it definitely came up.

我想了想，算了。

I I think okay.

我另外还经营着一家时尚公司，那时候我们正在被收购，我一直处在高度紧张的状态。

So I also have a fashion company and I had been in flight or flight mode for quite some time because we were doing a buyout.

当时我还有个合伙人在谈收购，你懂的，收购这事儿真的糟心透了。

So I had a partner and a buyout you know, is not a fun thing.

特别耗人精力。

It's a little taxing.

整个过程都熬得特别难受。

It's a hard situation to go through.

那段时间我一直跟老天念叨，要是这家公司本来就不属于我、你不想让我接着经营了，那就干脆把它拿走吧。

And I kept saying to God during that process like if it's not meant for me and you don't want me to have this company, please just take the company.

如果你不支持我做这件事，那我宁愿放弃。

Like I don't want it if you don't want me to have it.

我向上天祈祷了好多次，最后也确信这是老天要我接下这个盘子的。

And I prayed that so many times that I like I'm pretty sure he wanted me to have it.

结果我刚完成收购，才过了两周就查出了癌症。

I had bought the company and I got diagnosed two weeks later.

后来有一天我去看肿瘤医生，她一句话就把所有情况说透了：我会掉光所有头发、眉毛和睫毛，而且再也没法生孩子了。

And then there was a day where I went to my oncologist and in one sentence she had said to me, you're gonna lose all your hair, you're gonna lose your eyebrows, you're gonna lose your eyelashes and you're not gonna be able to carry a baby.

就在那一刻，我觉得，这太不公平了。

And in that moment, I felt like, wow, this is not fair.

尤其是不能生孩子这一点，真的让我很难受，毕竟这事儿太伤人了。

Like at least the baby part was really hard for me because yeah, that was hard.

我也替迈克感到难过，不只是为自己难过，因为想想这事儿也太惨了。

And I and I felt really sad for Mike too, not even just for me because I'm like, that's that stinks.

我们刚结婚一年，他一直特别想当爸爸，这对他来说太重要了，他一定会是个超棒的爸爸，他理应拥有这份幸福。

You know, we're one year into marriage and like he's always wanted to be a dad and that's like super important to him and he'll be the best dad and he should get to be a dad.

我觉得他最终还是会当上爸爸的，但那时候，说实话，那种念头确实会冒出来。

And I feel like he will get to be a dad but I think in that moment, yeah, you definitely have those.

但同时你又特别害怕，心里就一个念头：这真的太不公平了。

But you're also so scared that you're just like, yeah, that's unfair.

但我心里也在想：我会死吗？

But I also am like, am I going to die?

那时候，你得同时面对好多事，一旦癌症闯进来，人的想法瞬间就全变了。

So there's like, you're weighing a lot of things and perspective changes really quick when cancer enters the conversation.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

随着时间推移，从确诊到第一次化疗前，你心里有什么变化？你是怎么一步步准备的？

What kind of shifted for you as time went on after the diagnosis leading up to your like first chemotherapy session and getting ready for that and preparing yourself for that?

那时候你一边准备，心里都在想些什么？

Like what was going through your mind as you got ready and prepared?

是的

Yeah.

因为我得的是激素受体阴性乳腺癌，所以还来得及再试一次试管婴儿。

So I had like kind of a bit of time because my cancer was hormone negative, I was able to do one more round of IVF.

我就在做试管婴儿的整个过程中，一直在想：化疗一开始，我该怎么办？会发生什么？

So I did the round of IVF and I was just the whole time thinking about I'm starting chemotherapy, like what's gonna happen?

这简直太疯狂了。

This is crazy.

第一次去化疗的时候，我身体状态其实特别好，完全不像生病的样子。

Walking into your first chemo, I personally felt physically amazing, super healthy.

我前一天还去上普拉提课了呢。

I went to Pilates the day before.

那阵子要做的准备事特别多，感觉有点像在完成什么仪式一样。

Like I there's a lot of things you have to do, felt a little bit like a ritual or something.

得先把美甲卸掉，接的假发片也得取下来。

Have to get your nails taken off, you have to get your hair extensions taken out.

感觉好像一下子要把身体里很多东西都清掉一样

You're kinda like removing all these things.

但当时我就想着，还是得去上普拉提课，坚持运动

But I was like, I'm gonna go to Pilates and work out.

那时候状态其实还挺好的

I felt great.

可真到要进化疗室的时候，你明知道输进身体的这个药会把你折磨得够呛，说不定还会病得很重

And then you know you're actively walking in there and you're putting something in your body that's going to make you very sick, potentially very sick.

对我来说，这让我特别特别难受。

For me, it made me very very sick.

但我知道，为了活下去，我非得这么做不可。

And and to know like in order to survive, I have to do that.

然后我就得跟自己说：好吧，来吧。

And I have to be like, okay, here we go.

就往我身体里打吧，你知道的。

Like put it in me, you know.

我觉得这事儿挺奇怪的，有点荒诞。

And I think that was strange and a bit weird.

不过我有个朋友，吉尔·马丁，很早就教了我一件事。

But a friend of mine, Jill Martin taught me very early on.

她跟我说：你得换个角度看化疗。

She said to me, you have to reframe the way you think about chemotherapy.

你不能把化疗当成是让你生病的东西。

You cannot think of chemotherapy as something that's making you sick.

你得把化疗看成是救你命的东西。

You have to think of chemotherapy as something that's saving your life.

这整个过程里，对我来说是个巨大的转变。

And that's been a huge shift throughout the whole thing for me.

方方面面都是。

Everything.

以前我老抱怨得去美甲。

I used to complain about having to go get my nails done.

这有啥好抱怨的？

Like what?

我以前还老嫌得去理发店做头发。

Like I used to complain about having to go get my hair to my hair appointment.

但经历过这些之后，我现在反而特别想去做头发。

And like I think when you go through something like this, I'm like I cannot wait to go get my hair done.

我知道现在戴的是假发，但也算打理过了，可我还是特别盼着能长出自己的头发。

I mean this is a wig but so I kinda got it done but like my own hair, like I cannot wait for that.

现在所有事情都变成了‘我今天能来这里’，你知道吗？

And everything became like I got to come here today, know.

不再是‘我必须做’，而是‘我有机会做’这些事。

I don't have to I get to do things rather than I have to do things.

我觉得这真的是人生的一个转折点。

And I think that is like a life shift.

我当时就想，好吧。

I was like, okay.

原来能有空去做指甲都是种奢侈啊，你懂吧。

Like I had to go get my nails done, like that's a privilege, you know.

现在想想之前真是太不懂珍惜了。

And like what a brat.

其实你没必要这么苛责自己的。

I think you're being hard on yourself too.

我觉得我们所有人都会陷入一种习以为常的状态，忘了心怀感恩，把拥有的一切都当成理所当然，这是人的通病，谁都免不了。

I think we're all we as in, I think we all get into a space of familiarity and ingratitude, and you take things for granted, and I think all of us do that as humans.

我觉得这不光是你一个人这样，不管那具体是什么。

I don't think it's just you, whatever that may be.

每个人生活中都有那么一两件事儿，比如理发、做指甲之类的，你会觉得：

Everyone has their version of a hair or nail appointment or something in their life that they're like,

做指甲的时候你就想，哎呀，这简直受罪，连手机都不能碰。

go know about the nail because you're like, it's such torture, I can't be on my phone.

我说啊，大家别紧张，咱们挺好的。

I'm like, guys, we're okay.

咱们真的挺好的。

We're okay.

你懂的吧？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

但听你这么一说，真让我豁然开朗了。

But I think hearing you say that really does put into perspective.

我刚刚在想，那些我习以为常的事，就像你刚才跟我说的那样，我觉得这对很多听我们聊天的人会很有帮助。

I was thinking about all the things that I take for granted or all the things that I, as you said that to me just now, and I think that's gonna help a lot of people who are listening.

我一直在想，我平时老是抱怨：天啊，这个得做，那个也得搞，完了完了，这个非做不可。

I was just thinking about all the things I say, oh god, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, oh my god, I have to do this.

其实呢，我有能力把它做好、做健康，这一点真的不能小看。

It's like, I have the ability to do it healthy and well and that is something that you can't underestimate.

没错。

Right.

而且听你讲你是怎么转变想法的，我觉得这一点特别重要。

And you know, hearing about it through your perspective and how that shifted for you, I think that's a huge one.

是啊。

Yeah.

这对我来说真的特别关键。

I I it was it was a huge thing for me.

我以前对自己特别苛刻，老是翻手机相册，你懂的，它总会跳出一年前、两年前的照片。

And I also think like I was so hard on myself before like I'm like scrolling back through my phone and you know how it pops up like a year ago or two years ago.

以前我总觉得自己头发太少，记得那时候成天念叨这个，还总想怎么改善发质。想让自己变得更好完全没问题，

I always thought my hair was so thin and I remember I was always like talking about that and like trying to fix that and it's okay to wanna fix it and improve.

我现在反倒盼着以前那种发量的头发能再长回来

I can't wait for my thin hair to come back.

真的，我迫不及待想回到那个状态了

Like I literally cannot wait.

所以我就觉得啊，我们所有人都对自己太苛刻了

So it's just like I just think we're all so hard on ourselves.

其实我想说，我自己也还在摸索啦，但你看我现在戴了顶长假发，今天特意戴的，懂吧？

Just know that it's like, I mean, I'm still learning too, but I'm just like, as I sit here with the big wig on, but like, you know, like I got to wear a wig today.

我还挺兴奋的呢。

I'm kinda pumped.

咱们平时真的太爱苛责自己了。

Like, we're like really picking on ourselves a lot.

我特别想把这点教给所有女生，或者说让她们也能想开这点。

I wanna somehow be able to teach girls that or like give them that perspective.

我不太清楚为什么，但我真的懂那种感觉。

I don't know how, but I've felt that.

我们对自己实在太苛刻了。

Like, I we're so hard on ourselves.

简直让人想教会人不用经历痛苦就能明白这些，可这痛苦实在太强烈、太折磨人了，而你恰恰是通过这些才慢慢领悟到的——我也说不清，可能我们大多数人，都得经历这么难的事才能学会吧。

It's almost like you'd wish you could teach humans to do that without going through pain because the pain is so intense and excruciating and terrible but it's almost like that's a gift that you've developed by going through that that, yeah, don't know, I don't know if all of us can learn that without sadly going through something so difficult.

是啊。

Yeah.

这真的太沉重了，太难了。

It's a lot, it's hard.

对啊，确实很难，因为你病得特别厉害的时候，别的事根本顾不上。

Yeah, it's It's hard like because you go from like, I mean, you get so sick, and that's something else I struggled with a lot.

人要是病到那个份上，连电话都不想接。

Like when you're so so sick, you you are not even picking up the phone.

那时候根本没法拍视频。

Like there's you can't film it.

我不是故意瞒着，实在是病得太厉害了。

Like it it I wasn't hiding it, but I was so sick.

你就躺在浴室的地板上。

Like there you're on the bathroom floor.

迈克给我在浴室地上搭了个小床。

Mike made me a nice little bed on the bathroom floor.

他有时候会躺下来陪我，但那时候根本坐不起来。

He would come and lay in there with me sometimes, but it was just like you can't sit up.

简直哪儿都在流血，能流的地方全在流。

Like you're bleeding from everything you can bleed from.

每一天，你感觉全身上下哪儿都不对劲。

Your every day, it's like every part of your body.

我真没想到，居然有人会病到家里这么惨。

I mean, I didn't know anyone was sitting at their house that sick.

我以为自己会生病，但真没料到会这样，每个人应对的方式都不一样。

Like I pictured I would get sick but I did not picture and everybody does handle it differently.

我感觉不是所有人都会病得这么重的。

I don't know that everyone gets this sick.

我的肿瘤医生曾经跟我说过，有些人耐受力比较好，有些人就不行，而我偏偏就是那个不行的，你懂吧。

My oncologist did say to me at one point like some people tolerate it well and some people don't and then there's you, you know.

所以说我这次遭老罪了，但我一直很难把这份痛苦表现出来。其实我本来也想多展露一些状态，但又怕别人可怜我，更不想显得我像是在卖惨博关注。

So I think I had a bad go at it but I struggled with showing it a lot because I definitely wanted to show show more but I also didn't want people to pity me and I didn't want it to seem performative.

但后来我又想，我也得尊重那些跟我有相同经历的人啊。

But then I was like, I also wanna honor the people who are going through this.

就是想提醒大家，如果有人正在看这段内容，要是你手下有员工正经历这种状况，你根本想不到他们其实已经在拼尽全力撑着了。

Like, what if someone's watching this and one of their employees has someone going through this and they just don't know that that person like might be really, really trying.

这里面的难处真的太多了。

And it's, there's a lot to it.

治疗会给你用药物引发绝经，整个人的状态就跟青春期的小姑娘一样，激素紊乱情绪失控。

They put you in medically induced menopause and you're like a hormonal teenager girl.

那阵子我什么芝麻大点的事都能对着迈克哭，说出来你都没法想象。

And I'm like crying to Mike about anything you could ever imagine.

你都快不是你自己了。

You're not even yourself.

你让别人怎么理解这种感觉？

How can you expect people to understand that?

在这种情况下，我怎么还能带好团队，还不怪自己？

How can I lead a team during all that and and not be mad at myself?

真的太难了，我都不知道该怎么形容。

And you're just it's so much and I don't really know how to explain it.

我觉得可能根本就没有对错之分。

I don't know that there's a right way.

我试过分享，但说实话，我宁可藏得更深，因为这事儿太惨了。

Like I tried to share, but I definitely if I'm being totally honest, I would say I erred on the side of showing less because it's gruesome.

太惨了。

It's gruesome.

简直是一堆可怕的事儿。

Like horrific things.

它会让你身体垮掉，连坐都坐不起来。

It it can do your body and you can't sit up.

你根本走不了路。

You can't walk.

有一次我品牌发布，我爬着去电脑前工作。

Like I we had a launch for my brand one day and I crawled to the computer to get at work to work.

那时候我觉得，这真是我经历过最丢脸的事。

Like I was like, this is just like the most humbling thing.

我记得有一回正值橄榄球赛季，迈克在看比赛，我饿得要死，但吃一口的代价太大了。

I cried once it was I remember during football season, Mike was watching a football game and I was so hungry but there was just such a price to pay.

我肠胃问题特别严重，吃东西的代价太高了，饿得要命，可我根本受不了挨饿，尤其是约会的时候。

Like I had a lot of GI issues and there was such a price to pay if I ate that I was like starving and I'm not good at starving at like date.

我一边看广告一边哭，真想吃东西。有一次我点了餐，嚼了两口就吐了——太想吃了，可吃了就得付出代价。

And I was just crying like watching these commercials and I just wanna eat but I ordered food once, I'm like chew it and like spit it out because I just wanted to eat so badly but there was a price to pay.

东西吃下去，又从两边都排出来了。

It was coming out both ways.

你能想到的所有症状全来了，浑身发炎、堵塞，可不是简单吐一吐，那是真疼得要命。

Everything you could imagine, everything is inflamed and congested and it's not just like you're throwing up, you're like in major pain.

我的牙齿全烂光了，都是因为这些事，有些事我真的不想让人看见。

And like my teeth have completely rotted like from all of this, like just things you you don't wanna I didn't wanna show that.

要是有人晒出来，我一点都不会生气。

I wouldn't be mad if someone showed that.

我倒希望有人敢晒，但我真不想让别人可怜我。

I I hope someone does, but I I didn't want people to pity me.

我当时也不知道该拿这些事怎么办。

So I didn't know exactly what to do with it there.

我就一天天熬着，能做多少算多少。

So I just went day by day and yeah, did did what I could.

我逼着迈克提醒我发帖，他说：宝贝，别发了，算了吧。

I I I pushed Mike to to to remind me to post and he was like, sweetheart, just like don't.

可我觉得，我坚持下来的唯一意义，就是有人给我留言说：‘布里吉特，我去了医院检查，幸好没到化疗那一步。’

But I was like, but the only purpose I feel in this is when people write me and they say, I went in, I got checked, I am not gonna have to do chemo, Bridget.

我当时就想，嗯，这事里头肯定有东西。

Like I was like, okay, there's something in this.

是的。

Yeah.

真的帮到了太多人。

That's helping so many people.

你现在在这儿聊这个，我敢肯定，很多人因此去自己检查了。

Even even you're talking about it here right now, I'm sure there are so many people who go and self examine.

赶紧自查啊，求你们了，真的求你们了。

Self exams, do your exams, like, please, please.

我跟大家说，我真的在求你们，别拖，赶紧做，因为我去见肿瘤医生之前，我还想着：得让她帮我做个自查。

Like I blank I'm like begging people, I'm like, please do it because before I went in to see my oncologist, I was like, I need to like have her do a self exam on me.

我得搞清楚这到底是怎么回事。

I need to just figure this out.

就在我去看病的前一晚。

And like, this was the night before my appointment.

她是一位非常专业又出色的肿瘤科医生。

She's a very proper amazing oncologist.

我想让她给我做一次乳腺检查，还想拍下来。

I want her to do a breast exam on me, and I wanna film it.

但我怕到时候因为乳头露出来，Instagram上会被封号。

And I'm like, but I'll be like flagged for my nipples being out on Instagram.

对吧？

Right?

所以我就在想，亚马逊Prime上能买点啥？

So I'm like, Amazon Prime, what can I get?

对吧？

Right?

我就在搜那种去派对戴的遮盖贴。

And I'm like looking up pasties that you wear to like a rave.

结果只找到一个红色亮片的。

I could only found like this red glittery one.

第二天她就来了。

She walks in the next day.

我就说：您能教教我们怎么自己检查吗？我能拍下来吗？

I'm like, can you teach us all how to do a self exam and can I film it?

她一脸懵：这是啥？

She's like, what is that?

我身上还真贴着迪斯科闪片乳贴，她却一本正经的。

Like I literally had disco glitter pasties on and she's like super serious.

结果这视频传给了七万多人，大家都说：我从来不知道自己是不是做对了。

But like it got sent to like 70,000 people like and people were like, I've never known if I was doing this right.

她讲得比谁都清楚。

And like she can explain it better than anyone else.

对吧？

Right?

现在我再看那段视频，都觉得我学会怎么做了。

And now I feel like even watching that like I know how to do one.

我觉得，如果你正在听这段话，别光听，现在就赶紧动手自查。

And I think if any anyone takes anything from this, if you're listening to this and you're hearing this like just write head right now.

来吧，今晚我们就一起做个自我检查，感受一下。

Just like let's have a feel like let's tonight do our self exam.

你要了解自己的身体，知道正常状态是什么样，重点是发现任何变化。

And what you're looking for is like you have to know your body, know your baseline, and you're looking for a change.

只要发现不对劲，马上去检查就行。

So any change and then you get checked.

别因为害怕就一拖再拖，这事儿真拖不得。

And you don't let yourself put it off, put it off, put it off because it's scary.

很多人就是这么干的，拖着不办。

That's what people tend to do.

但说实话，早发现从来都不是坏事，只有好处。

But there is no no instance with this where finding out sooner is a bad thing.

说不定就能躲过化疗，直接把问题扼杀在萌芽状态。

You know, it can definitely keep you out of chemotherapy.

它能让你停留在更早期的阶段。

It can keep you at a lower stage.

真的特别重要。

Like, it's it's so important.

所以啊，赶紧去检查吧，顺便看看我拍的那个视频，我可是穿着迪斯科派对的闪亮 outfit 出镜的。

So yeah, go in, get checked and like just watch my video that I made and and see me in my disco, you know, rave party outfit.

今天你觉得美是什么意思？

What does beauty mean to you today?

我最近正在慢慢琢磨这个。

Oh, I'm working on that a little bit.

我一直都喜欢时尚、化妆这些，我觉得这挺好，也没问题。

Like I've always enjoyed fashion and makeup and all of this and I think that's great and I think that's fine.

但我更想用心去打动别人，让人感受到某种东西，也许能激发他们去寻找自己生活中缺失的那部分，或者心里那个空洞——我觉得这才是真正美的东西，你知道吧？

But I think I really want to lead with my heart and really make people feel a certain way that will maybe inspire them to like search for something's missing in their life or a little hole in their heart and like that would be something I found really beautiful, you know?

还有件事我想起来，我见过一个看起来身体不太好的女孩。

And another thing I thought of like I saw a girl who looked sick.

前几天她在网上分享自己抗癌的经历，我觉得她哪里都美。

She's going through cancer on the internet the other day, and I'm like, there's nothing not beautiful about her.

可没人觉得她这样子也美。

Like, no one feels like that about her.

所以我觉得，真正经历之后，我的想法完全不一样了。

So I think it's like just being in it really changed it.

根本没人盯着我说：‘她看起来好糟糕。’

Like, no one was looking at me going, she looks so bad.

他们可能只是有点害怕。

I mean, they might have been scared.

她确实看起来病得很重。

She looked she looks very sick.

我看了都揪心。

I'm alarmed.

但没人会说：‘她好丑啊。’

But like, no one was saying, oh, she's so ugly.

你懂我意思吧？

You know what I mean?

就是不一样。

Like, it's different.

我觉得归根结底，咱们对自己太苛刻了，老是当自己最大的黑粉。

I think we're just again, it goes back to being like our own worst critics and so hard on ourselves.

是的。

Yeah.

谢谢。

Thank you.

说得太好了。

Well said.

我有俩问题想问你们。

What I wanted to ask you two questions.

对得了癌症的人，什么样的话最有帮助？

What's the most helpful thing someone can say to someone who's got cancer?

那别人对癌症患者说的最没帮助的话是什么？

And what's the most unhelpful thing people can say to someone who's got cancer?

这问题问得好。

That's a good question.

我觉得很多人其实都不知道该说什么。

Because I think a lot of people just don't know what to say.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得千万别轻描淡写地对待他们正在经历的事。

I feel like you just don't ever wanna be dismissive of what they're going through.

但我觉得特别暖心、特别贴心的是，有人一直主动关心我。

But I think something that's been really nice and really sweet is like people who continue to check-in on me.

哪怕我忙得没空回消息，我也发誓，他们联系我的时候，总是在我最需要的那一刻。

And even like when I didn't have the time to write people back, I swear when people would reach out to me, it would be like in the exact second I needed it.

真的，那一刻我就想，哇。

Like, it was like, wow.

你懂的吧？

You know?

有时候是那种好多年没联系的人，突然发消息说，我就想跟你聊聊。

And it would be like someone I knew from years ago and they'd be like, oh, I'm just reaching out.

我之前还觉得挺愧疚的，因为他们也没回别人，但你根本想不到，你的一句话能给别人的那天带来多大的改变。

And like, I felt bad because they didn't write back to everyone but like you don't know how much you can what an impact you can have on someone's day.

现在我特意提醒自己，只要想到谁，当天就一定发条消息。

Like I have made a conscious effort now like when I think of people now, I make sure I text them that day.

他们回不回我，我其实一点都不在意。

I don't care if they write me back or not too.

这是我真真切切学到的一点：别停下，继续联系。

Like that's one thing I really learned like, just keep reaching out.

别放弃，一直保持联系。

Just keep going.

现在只要脑子里一想到谁，我就立刻发消息过去。

Like I just reach out to people whenever they pop into my head now.

我在为你祈祷。

I'm praying for you.

我爱你。

I love you.

你根本不知道别人正在经历什么。

Like you don't know what someone else is going through.

我觉得我们其实都连在一起，这真的很美好，你就一直去关心他们吧。

And like I do feel like we're all connected and like, it's beautiful and you can really I just think keep just keep loving on them.

是的。

Yeah.

你懂的。

You know?

就一直关心他们吧。

Just keep loving on them.

就算有时候人生气、不开心，可能不想回你，但他们永远不会因为你主动联系而生你的气。

And even there's points points where people are mad and they're like upset, and they might not wanna reply, but they're never gonna be mad that you reached out.

所以我觉得，做了就别指望回报。

So I think it's like do it but don't expect anything back from it.

但我一直被爱和祷告托着，有时候甚至觉得自己太被宠了。

But I felt so carried in love and prayer the whole time and felt a little spoiled sometimes.

我觉得这太美好了，真希望也能以某种方式，把这份温暖传递给别人。

I'm like, this is so nice, know, and I wanna be able to hopefully do give some of that back to people some somehow, someway.

如果你想到什么，杰，记得告诉我。

If you think of anything Jay let me know.

我觉得这就是回馈。

I think this is giving back.

哦，原来如此。

Oh okay.

我觉得这就是回馈。

I think this is giving back.

你每天在线上出现，分享自己的故事，这就是对所有关心你的人最好的回报——因为你可能帮到了某个认识的人，或者他们爱的人，让他们避免重蹈你的覆辙，早点发现，不用经历你受过的那些苦。

You showing up online every day, you sharing your story, that is the best give back for everyone who checked in with you because you're hopefully helping someone they know or someone they love from not going through the same thing or catching it early and not having to experience the hardships of it that you did.

过去一两年里，我有好几个朋友也得了癌症，我和他们聊天时发现，他们最常说的是，别人不知道该说什么，都渐渐疏远了，觉得他们需要空间，其实他们特别希望有人能主动关心一下。

I've had a couple of friends in the last twelve to twenty four months who've also been going through cancer and I've found when I talk to them, one of the biggest things they say to me is people don't know what to say, people kind of distance themselves, people think I just need space, but actually it would be really nice if they checked in.

就像你刚才说的，你去关心别人，没人会因此生气，哪怕他们没力气回复，没空回电话或回消息。

And it's what you just said that no one's ever gonna be mad if you check-in, even if they don't have the capacity or capability to respond back or call you back or message back.

对你来说只是随口一问，对他们来说却真的很重要。

It's always gonna mean something to that person.

是的。

Yes.

这对我意义太重大了。

It meant so much to me.

我从小跟着单亲妈妈长大，看她一个人撑得那么辛苦，我就在想，天啊，我这次生病能有这么多人帮着，真的太幸运了，不是每个人都有这样的福气。

I always think of my mom growing up with a single mom and seeing her struggle, I'm like you know, woah, it's not lost on me that I went through this with like complete privilege of like having help.

不是每个人身边都有人真心惦记着你、愿意拉你一把。

Like having someone who cared about me to help me like not everyone has that.

所以我觉得，只要能帮上忙，就别犹豫——比如对方有孩子，顺手帮他们洗个衣服、跑个超市买个菜，这些小事真的能让人特别感动。

So I think it's like if there's anything you can do like if someone has kids, anything you could do to help them do their laundry, any grocery store run or something for them, it's like really deeply meaningful.

真的特别难熬。

It gets really hard.

我觉得人们总不太愿意承认自己有多难，有点丢脸，你知道的。

And I don't think people always feel comfortable showing how hard it is because it's a bit embarrassing, know.

你总想装作没事，我也一直想让自己看起来挺好的，但其实根本不是这样。

And you wanna try and you wanna be or I wanted to be anyway, like I'm okay, but it's like no you're not.

是的，这很正常。

Yeah, which is natural.

我们明明都这样。

We do it anyway.

就算没得癌症，我们不也一样吗？

We do it even when we don't have cancer, right?

我们都装得好像什么都不用帮、一切都搞定、自己挺好的。

We all act like we don't need help and we've got it all together and we're okay.

所以当你有担心的事、有顾虑的时候，你就提到了迈克那边。

And so when you have something that you're worried about and concerned about, you you talked about, you know, Mike there.

我看着你们俩相处的样子真的特别动容，你刚刚讲的那段历程里，迈克自始至终都全身心陪着你，这种状态真的太美好了。

I think what I find so it's so beautiful watching you both together and what you did share from the journey of just how engaged and present Mike was throughout the whole journey.

而且我一直都觉得这个点特别有意思，就像我们婚礼上都会许下那句誓言，无论贫穷富贵、生病健康都要在一起。

And I think I always find it fascinating because of course on our wedding days, we all make this commitment of in sickness and in health.

这句话我们听无数人说过，可能少说也有几十遍了，电影里也总能看到，反正就是翻来覆去听到这句话，可真当人遇上事的时候——

And we've all heard hundreds of people say it or maybe you know tens of people say it, we've seen it in movies, we've, you know, whatever it may be, you hear this statement again and again and then people are actually you

真的生病了的时候。

know Sick.

对，然后你们真的就经历了这一切。

Yeah and then you actually go through that.

和我们说说你当初到底是怎么撑过来的吧。

Talk to us about the realities of what it took.

我记得迈克当时也特意缩短了工作时间，一直在身边陪着你给你支持，但我知道你肯定也过得很难，毕竟你陪着伴侣一起扛着这么脆弱难熬的阶段，你这边也同样不容易。

You know, I think Mike also went down to, like, you know, cut days at work to be there to support, but I'm sure it's not easy for you either because you're going through this very vulnerable thing with your partner, that's not easy on your side.

和我聊聊，哪怕身边有深爱着你、你也深爱的人陪伴，亲身经历癌症到底是什么样的感受。

Talk to me about the realities of what it feels like to go through cancer even with someone you love and that loves you deeply.

是啊，一开始真的很难，就像我说的，我从小就很独立，一直想靠自己。

Yeah, I mean, it was hard for me at first, like I said, because I had grown up like always being really independent and wanting that for myself.

我觉得上帝在说：不行。

And I think God was like, no.

你得学会信任一个男人，得靠着他，这就是现实。

You're gonna learn to trust a man and you're gonna have to lean on him and it is what it is.

我真的觉得特别难。

And I found that really hard.

刚结婚才一年，我就遇上‘病痛与健康’这种事了。

I mean, I straight out the gate, know, this is one year into marriage.

行啊，来吧，看看你到底行不行。

I'm like sickness and health, go buddy.

我真没想到，没有他我该怎么办，他是个整形外科医生，为了这一刻，他苦练了整整十七年。

Let's see what you got, you know.

我后来才明白，选丈夫得像选救命稻草一样，真的不能没有他。

And he really put himself second and I I came up with this whole like choose your husband like your life depends on it because I can't imagine what I would have done without him like, you know, he's a plastic surgeon and he has been training for this moment for seventeen years.

所以你好不容易开了公司，通过了执照考试，结果突然之间，人家让你别管生意了，去学怎么运营一家时尚公司吧——因为她刚买下这家公司，还背了一屁股债，现在全权接管了，你懂的。

So you get to this moment, you open your business, you pass your boards And now it's like, oh, please step away from your business and learn how to do a fashion company because she just bought it, has debt and now owns the full company, you know.

这压力也太大了吧。

So it's a lot to put on someone.

我觉得混乱最能看出一个人的本性，对吧？

And I think chaos reveals character, right?

在遇到迈克之前，我还专门列过一份‘理想丈夫清单’。

And one thing I did before I met Mike was I made this like husband list.

以前我还在TikTok和Instagram上聊过这事儿，但不是那种‘腹肌+高管办公室+社会地位’的浮夸标准。

I used to talk about it on like TikTok or Instagram a long time ago, but it was, it's not like, oh, abs in a corner office and status and all this stuff.

我更看重的是人品。

It's much more like character driven.

他爱他妈妈吗？

Like, does he love his mom?

他让人感觉怎么样？

How does he make people feel?

他离开房间的时候，留下的是什么？

What does he leave in the room?

他有朋友吗？

Does he have any friends?

他在意别人吗？

Does he care about people?

说到底，生活总会难起来，真正重要的就是这些事。

Because at the end of the day, life is gonna get hard and those are the things that are gonna matter.

我们第一次约会时，我记得迈克跟我说，他爸妈结婚四十年了，他祖父母都结婚七十年了。

On our first date, I remember Mike telling me like his parents have been married for forty years, his grandparents are married for seventy years.

我当时就想，哎呀，他可真是一条条都踩中我列的那些标准了。

I was like, oh, he's like hitting these things on this list I wrote over here.

但那张清单上写的，是他……

But it was the list is he

说，告诉

told Tell

跟我说说那张清单上都写了什么。

us about what was on the list.

是的。

Yeah.

就是，他爱他妈妈吗？

It was it was like, does he love his mom?

别人是怎么评价他的？

What do people say about him?

别人喜欢他吗？

Do people like him?

这个对我来说特别重要。

Like I that was a big one on my list.

我就希望人人都喜欢他，都觉得他特别棒。

I was like, I really want everyone to love him and just think he's great.

要是有人不喜欢迈克，那才奇怪呢。

If someone wouldn't like Mike, like that's kinda odd.

他真的是个特别好的人。

Like he's a really good human.

他就是那种特别棒的人。

Like he's just like a great person.

我都想成为像迈克这样的人。

Like I wanna be like Mike.

他有自己特别热爱的东西。

Like he has something he was passionate about.

他到底喜欢什么呢？

Is there something he loves?

我们的价值观和信仰是一致的吗？

Do we align on our values and our faith?

还有，别让任何事从清单上漏掉。

And like not letting anything go off the list.

别忽视别人的潜力。

Like not seeing potential in people.

哎，我能换掉这个人吗？

Oh, can I change this and this person?

我简直被他迷住了。

Like I'm so attracted to them.

我第一次见迈克的时候，走进房间那一刻，我头一回在想：我喜欢这个人吗？

My date with Mike when I walked in, that was the first time I think I walked into a room thinking like, do I like this guy?

那时候想的不是‘他喜不喜欢我’，

And it wasn't like, does he like me?

对。

Mhmm.

我那时候特别清楚：我知道自己在基督里的身份，我知道上帝爱我，我知道我是谁，也知道自己真正需要什么。只要我把这事交托给上帝，我就信他会为我预备这个人，而不是硬要打破自己的原则，勉强去跟那些根本不合适的人凑合。

I was really good in the sense of I know who I am in Christ, I know God loves me, I know who I am and I know what I think I need, and if I just give this to God, I'm gonna believing that he's gonna find this guy for me rather than me trying to make all of these exceptions to these rules and like make it work with these other people that it's not working with.

现在回头想想，我才明白，上帝从头到尾都看得一清二楚。

And like looking back, I'm like, God really sees your whole beginning to end.

他甚至早就知道，我需要一个医生。

Like he even knew I needed a doctor.

我们刚开始约会的时候，迈克，一切都特别自然。

When we first started dating, Mike, it was always easy with him, everything.

以至于我都怀疑，我是不是对他没兴趣？

To the extent that I was like, oh am I like not interested in this?

这会不会是……

Is this

对啊，那种平静得让人觉得不真实。

Oh yeah, it was so peaceful that it felt unfamiliar.

是啊，我当时还想过，他是不是更适合当我朋友。

Yeah like I was sort of like, maybe he should be my friend.

对。

Yeah.

我根本没在等他发消息，他反而一直主动找我，追得特别积极。

Like I don't feel this because I wasn't like waiting for him to text me and all of this, he was just texting me, he was just pursuing me actively.

我真不知道该怎么理解，一点套路都没有。

And I didn't really know what to make of that, there were no games.

所以我差点被这搞糊涂了。

So I almost got confused by that.

幸好我有那份清单，不然我真要怀疑他是不是哪里不合规矩。

And so thank God I had that list because I'm like, well he's not breaking anything on the list.

我就跑去请教别人了。

But I was just like, so what I did was I like took counsel.

我问了那些已婚的人。

I asked married people.

我说，有这么个 guy，是个超帅的医生，但我之前压根儿不想跟他约会，整整六个月都没想过。

I'm like, there's this guy, he's this like really hot doctor which also like I didn't wanna go out with him for six months.

我不想跟他约会，是因为他长得像模特儿。

I did not wanna go out with him because I was like, looks like a model.

我想当那个更漂亮的啊。

And like, I wanna be the pretty one.

但后来我还是放下了。

But like, I got over it.

他那时候穿紧身牛仔裤，我还记得。

And like he wore jeggings, I remember.

我就是到处挑毛病。

I was just like looking for problems.

但他Instagram上的照片都没光拍他自己，我觉得这挺好。

But like none of the photos on his Instagram were just of him which I was like, that's a good thing.

这其实挺好的，虽然没写在清单上，但说明你关心别人，会和妈妈、兄弟还有朋友一起拍照。

That's a good thing because like even though that wasn't on the list, that says a lot about you care about people, you're with your mom, your brother, you have some friends.

这些都是很棒的迹象。

Those are great things.

这些细节其实特别能说明问题，你知道的。

Those are those are telling things, know.

所以嘛，是这样。

And so, yeah.

不过有几次我问已婚朋友的时候，还真有点担心，跟他们说：‘我真拿不准啊，哥们儿。’

But I did get a little bit worried at some points asking my married friends being like, I don't know guys.

他总是秒回我消息。

He's like always writing me back.

天天都想约我出去玩。

And he like wants to hang out every day.

这有点怪，但他们说，人家有工作，孝顺妈妈，人品也没得挑。

Like it's a little weird and they're like, and he has a job and he likes his mom and he's a good person.

那问题出在哪呢？

What's the problem?

你说，你觉得这到底是为啥？

You know, it's like, but what do you think that is?

咱们怎么都这样啊？

Like why are we all doing that?

咱们之前从来没过平稳清晰的互动，所以一旦有人真这么做了，你反而有点慌。

We don't have a history of peaceful, clear contact And therefore when someone finally does that, you kinda get spooked.

对啊。

Yeah.

你就会想，这到底怎么回事？

And you're like, what's going on here?

本来就不该这样啊。

Like, you're not meant to do this.

你应该让我紧张、焦虑，搞出一堆不健康、没帮助的情绪，至少在那一刻是这样。

You're meant to make me feel nervous and anxious and all the other emotions that aren't healthy and helpful or in that moment at least.

对。

Yeah.

所以我觉得，我们都在找那种心跳加速的感觉。

And so I think we're all looking for that kind of like racy feeling.

就是那种小鹿乱撞的感觉。

Like the butterfly.

是啊。

Yeah.

我那时候感觉

I felt

我喜欢他，但心里从来没那种一直沉甸甸的不安感。

like I liked him, but I didn't have this like sinking pit in my stomach at all times.

其实有研究显示，我们说的‘小鹿乱撞’，其实是兴奋和压力同时涌上来的感觉。

I mean, there's a study that shows that what we feel when we say the butterflies is you're feeling excitement and stress at the same time.

但当对方回你消息时，你只感受到兴奋和清晰。

But when someone messages you back, you only feel excitement and clarity.

对。

Mhmm.

所以你不会觉得有压力，真正让人紧张的，是兴奋和压力混在一起的那种感觉。

So you don't get the stress, but it's the excitement and stress together that creates that nervousness.

但当一个人真的像迈克那样，主动给你发消息、追求你，态度还特别明确的时候，你就会想：等等。

But when someone actually is just, as Mike was, messaging back and, you know, pursuing you and being really clear about it, we're like, oh, wait a minute.

我怎么一点压力都没有？

I don't feel the stress.

是啊。

Yeah.

压力确实让事情显得刺激，但说实话，我们都知道这不对——当你真的结婚了，或者和一个人长期相处时，你根本不想找一个总让你压力山大的人。

And the stress is what makes things exciting, but, you know, we know that's not true because hey, when you actually marry someone or you are in a long term relationship with someone, you don't want someone that causes you stress.

谁也不想回家面对一个让人紧张的人。

You don't wanna come home to a stressful person.

更不想早上醒来第一眼看到的是个让你心累的人。

Don't wanna wake up to a stressful person.

你根本不是想找这样的人，对吧。

You don't wanna that's not what you're looking for, you know.

你想想，我做化疗那会儿，他连消息都不回。我拍了个视频，心里就想：那个不回你消息的人，怎么可能在半夜急诊室里陪在你身边呢？

Imagine the guy not calling me back when I was going through my chemotherapy, know, I made one video and I was like, the guy who is not texting you back is not the guy with you in the middle of the night in the emergency room like,

你知道的，

you know,

我裹着大毛领子，他就在那儿，问我要不要帮忙，你知道吗？那时候我才明白，我们到底在纠结什么？

I had my big faux fur on and and he's just sitting there like, what can I do to help, you know, and it's like, what are we doing?

我那时候到底在想什么？

What was I doing?

你们在第一次约会之前是怎么认识的？

How did you two meet before that first date?

是啊，老派的相识方式，是朋友介绍的。

Yeah, the old fashioned, we met through friends.

我有个朋友是网红，她老公是整形医生。

My one friend, she's an influencer and her husband's a plastic surgeon.

他们俩当年在纽约大学同一批住院医师，她老劝我去和他约会。

They were in the same residency at NYU, and she kept telling me to go out with him.

我那时候老在抱怨那些约会对象，动不动就问：‘我该不该回他消息？’

I would just be complaining about these guys I was dating, and I would just be like, oh, should I text him back?

那会儿可真是各种算计，一堆事儿。

And it was all this plotting and all this stuff.

她就说：‘你真觉得该给迈克发消息吗？’

She's like, really think you should text Mike?

我就说：‘他长得跟模特一样。’

And I'm like, he looks like a model.

她还说，你别把这事儿想得太复杂。

Like and she was like, but just like take that out of it.

问题到底出在哪？

What is the problem?

我就说，我也不知道。

And I was like, I don't know.

我真的不知道。

I don't know.

我说，他不是我喜欢的类型。

I was like, he's not my type.

她回我，你又没结婚。

And she's like, you're not married.

你哪有什么固定类型。

You don't have a type.

你以前约会的那些人，好多都不是你喜欢的类型啊。

Like, you have a lot of people that aren't your type that you've dated.

旺达，你现在多重啊？

How much you weigh, Wanda?

现在嘛，大概一百三十磅。

Right now, I'm about one thirty.

我嘛，一百八十三磅。

I'm like one eighty three.

咱俩比比谁跑得快吧。

We should race.

不比。

No.

我可不想离开这儿的时候屁股还跟原来一样。

I wanna leave here with my original hips.

在播客《与阿莉雅的对决》里，我让一些知名女运动员和意想不到的嘉宾配对聊天。

On the podcast, The Matchup with Aaliyah, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests.

最近一期，我请到了无争议的拳击冠军克拉丽莎·谢尔兹，还有喜剧演员旺达·赛克斯，聊了聊旺达的新电影《垫底者》、嘴炮的艺术，还有什么叫真正的‘淑女’。

On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ, Clarissa Shields, and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard, the art of trash talk, and what it really means to be ladylike.

打开你手机里的免费iHeartRadio应用，搜索《艾莉雅的配对对决》，现在就能收听了。

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search the matchup with Aaliyah, and listen now.

本节目由诺华赞助播出，诺华是iHeart女子体育网络的创始合作伙伴。

Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.

嗨，美女们好呀。

Hello, gorgeous.

我是拉拉·肯特，《非传统拉拉》节目的主持人。

It's La la Kent, host of untraditionally La la.

我当年在餐厅里倒饮料的日子可能早就结束了，但现在在洛杉矶我照样过得有滋有味。

My days of filling up cups at sir may be over, but I'm still loving life in the valley.

山那头的生活确实透着点成熟的味道，但在我的播客《非传统拉拉》里，我还是那个你要么爱到不行，要么忍不住吐槽的拉拉。

Life on the other side of the hill is giving grown up vibes, but over here on my podcast, untraditionally La la, I'm still that La la you either love or love to hate.

我一直都跟粉丝、家人还有像汤姆·施瓦茨那种曾经的塑料朋友啥都敢说，啥都往外掏。

I've been full on oversharing with fans, family, and former frenemies like Tom Schwartz.

施瓦茨来我播客那期，我刚好有账要跟他算呢。

I had a little bone to pick with Schwartzie when he came on the pod.

你就不觉得愧疚吗？居然说我是个山寨主妇？

You don't feel bad that you told me I was a bootleg housewife?

我差点把一块披萨甩你身上。

I almost flipped a pizza in your lap.

天哪。

My god.

我压根儿把这事儿忘得一干二净，直到现在才想起来。

I literally forgot about that until just now.

对不起。

Sorry.

我不想把所有这些都怪到别人头上。

I don't wanna I don't wanna blame all of that.

这事真得怪酒精。

I gotta blame that one on the alcohol.

这档节目就是讲笑着成长，当生活不断给你添乱时，我犯错，是为的是让你们不用再踩同样的坑。

This is about laughing and learning when life just keeps on life and because I make mistakes so that you guys don't have to.

我们在成长。

We're growing.

我们在蓬勃发展。

We're thriving.

当然有时候我们差点撑不下去，但这一切都充满爱。

And, yes, sometimes we're barely surviving, but we do it all with love.

乱糟糟的。

It's unruly.

无所畏惧。

It's unafraid.

完全是不按常理出牌的La La。

It's untraditionally La la.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts，或者你常用的任何播客平台收听《不按常理出牌的La La》。

Listen to untraditionally La la on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

2023年，前《单身汉》明星克莱顿·埃卡德卷入了一场亲子丑闻。

In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.

随后的家事法庭听证会暴露了她说法中诸多自相矛盾的地方。

The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.

这开启了一场长达数年的官司，只为查明真相。

This began a years long court battle to prove the truth.

你在这份检测报告上前后篡改了两次，对吧？

You doctored this particular test twice in so ins, correct?

我只篡改过一次。

I doctored the test once.

最终是一群网络侦探联手才揭开了这个案子的真相。

It took an army of Internet detectives to crack the case.

我想让大伙儿看清自己的税款到底被用在了哪儿。

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

阳光是最好的消毒剂。

Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.

他们发现了一个令人不安的模式。

They would uncover a disturbing pattern.

又有两个男人经历了同样的事。

Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

格雷格·吉尔克里斯皮和迈克尔·曼奇尼。

Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.

我整个人都震惊了。

My mind was blown.

我是斯蒂芬妮·杨。

I'm Stephanie Young.

欢迎收听《爱情陷阱》。

This is Love Trap.

劳拉，斯科茨代尔警察局。

Laura, Scottsdale police.

随着剧情推进，劳拉·欧文斯终于付出了代价。

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

各位听众，马里科帕县突发新闻：劳拉·欧文斯已被起诉欺诈罪。

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.

亚利桑那州没讨到公道之前，这事就没完。

This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.

欢迎在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客，或是你常用的任意播客平台收听《Love Trap》。

Listen to Loved Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我想跟你聊聊这个普遍存在的想法：好多女性都觉得，我得30岁前结婚，35岁前生孩子，不然人生就来不及了。但你40岁才结婚，之后的日子照样过得好好的。

Talk to me about that idea of so many, there are so many women who feel if I'm not married by 30, if I don't have kids by 35, you got married when you were 40 and life will continue from this point onward.

你好像从来都没觉得自己落后了，也没陷在“赶不上进度”的焦虑里。

And it's like, you never felt behind or didn't allow yourself to feel behind.

其实我那时候感觉自己落后了。

Well, did, I felt behind.

对，我确实觉得进度跟不上，但那时候我一门心思扑在工作上。

Yeah, I felt behind, but like I was so consumed with work.

工作对我来说真的是头等大事，因为我妈这辈子过得一直很拮据，这种成长环境让我把赚钱看得太重了。

Like that was a big thing for me because I think just growing up with a mom who struggled, it was like the number one thing.

那时候我根本没心思考虑感情的事，一心只想熬到经济独立、日子能安稳下来再说。

Until I felt like I got myself to a point where I was like financially independent or in a good place, I wasn't as focused on it.

但后来我就想，天哪，我真的想要孩子了。

But then yeah, like I was like, oh no, I wanna have babies.

所以哪怕得在床上躺一年，我也认了。

So it was okay that I had to be laying in bed for a year.

我可是好多年都没怎么出门了。

I've been out for a lot of years.

我的平台其实完全是意外建起来的，大概在得癌症之前就有点苗头了。

That was kind of why my platform was built by accident, I guess before cancer happened.

在纽约，总有不少女孩跑来跟迈克和我说：天啊，你们俩给了我太多希望。

It was a lot of girls would come up to Mike and I in New York City mainly and they would say, oh my gosh, you guys give me so much hope.

我都32了，还没遇到合适的人。

I'm 32 and I haven't met anyone.

我35岁才遇到迈克。

And I met Mike when I was 35.

所以我后来就想开了，相信上帝对我的安排吧，不强求按自己的节奏来。

So I think, you know, I I leaned into that a little bit and thought about it and I think it was just like believing in God's plan for my life and not trying to do things my way.

话虽如此，我觉得如果我早点写下理想丈夫的清单，别那么沉迷于那些暧昧游戏和心跳加速的感觉，就能省下好多眼泪和好多年时光了，真的。

That being said, I do think I would have saved myself a lot of tears and a lot of years if I had written the husband list before and not got so caught up in like the games and the butterflies and like all of that because yeah.

我也说不好。

I don't know.

这事儿吧，确实挺常见的。

That's that's like a thing.

对。

Yeah.

如果有人跟你说，‘我都35了还没结婚，觉得自己落后了’，你会怎么回应？

What what would you say to someone who says to you, I feel behind at 35 because I haven't got married yet?

你写过理想丈夫的清单吗？上面都有谁？你现在跟谁在交往？又不敢放下什么？

Have you written your husband list and what's on it, and who are you dating, and like what are you scared to let go of?

我觉得，总得有个时刻，你得跟上帝说：好吧，这次我听你的。

Because I do think that there has to be a moment of kind of like, okay, God, I'm gonna do this your way.

我不再硬按自己的方式来了。

I'm not gonna keep doing this my way.