科迪·桑切斯：没钱如何赚钱（四步即刻赚钱法）

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

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如同好邻居，State Farm随时相伴。小时候我最喜欢开学前挑选新文具，那不仅是准备笔记本或铅笔，更是以崭新姿态设定目标，为成长做好准备的仪式感。如今成年，我依然钟爱这种感受。

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Growing up, one of my favorite things about going back to school was picking out new school supplies. It wasn't just about notebooks or pencils. It was about starting fresh, setting intentions, and feeling prepared to grow. Now as an adult, I still love that feeling.

得益于亚马逊，让您生活中的学生获得同样体验比以往更简单。无论是书包、电子配件还是课堂必需品，亚马逊以合理价格一站式提供所有开学所需，助您强势开启新学年。开学准备不仅是清单任务，更是建立信心、激发热情与目标感的契机。通过亚马逊，您能确保每位学生充分释放潜能。

And thanks to Amazon, it's easier than ever to help the students in your life feel the same. Whether it's backpack, tech accessories, or classroom essentials, Amazon has everything you need to start the school year strong all in one place at prices that just make sense. Preparing for a new school year is more than a checklist. It's a chance to build confidence, excitement, and a sense of purpose. And with Amazon, you can make sure every student is ready to step into their full potential.

在亚马逊选购开学用品。

Shop back to school at Amazon.

70%的百万富翁是白手起家。想要赚钱就必须遵循数学规律。有钱人都有一个

70% of millionaires are self made. If you wanna make money, you gotta follow the math. People that have money have one

共同点。企业家、投资人。她创办过26家企业。科迪·桑切斯。我身无分文。

thing. Entrepreneur, investor. She's brought over 26 businesses. Cody Sanchez. I have no money.

我对金钱知之甚少。该从哪里开始？怎么做？

I don't really know too much about money. Where do I start? What do I do?

我们最常听到的建议是追随热情。我认为这是相当糟糕的建议。如果没有资产所有权，你很可能永远无法实现财务自由。

Most often, we're told things like follow our passion. I think that's pretty bad advice. If you don't have ownership, you're probably never going to be free financially.

你简直是为人们打开了一扇全新的大门。

You're literally opening up a whole new doorway for people.

排名第一的健康与养生播客。

The number one health and wellness podcast.

杰·谢蒂。杰·谢蒂。独一无二的杰·谢蒂。

Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty.

大家好，欢迎回到《On Purpose》，这个让你变得更快乐、更健康、更治愈的地方。我对我们与成长过程中相伴事物的关系着迷——它们如何改变、如何进化，或如何保持不变。我相信我们与金钱的关系可能是最被低估的关系之一，也是我们最少关注的关系之一。

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. I'm fascinated by our relationships with things that we grew up with, how they've changed, how they've evolved or how they've stayed the same. I believe that our relationship with money is probably one of the most underestimated relationships that we have. And it's probably one of the relationships that we pay the least attention to.

我们没把它当作一种关系，也不以关系的视角看待它。因此它陷入了非此即彼的二元分类：要么擅长，要么不擅长。今天的嘉宾为我们每个人都准备了深刻的见解，无论你处于财务旅程的哪个阶段，这期节目都适合你。

We don't treat it like a relationship. We don't think of it like a relationship. And therefore it falls into the binary category of I'm either good at it or I'm bad at it. Today's guest has some incredible insights for each and every one of us, wherever you are in your financial journey. This episode is for you.

今天的嘉宾是科迪·桑切斯。

Today's guest is Cody Sanchez.

谢谢，我脸都红了。很兴奋能来到这里。

Thank you. I'm blushing. I'm excited to be here.

我想从一个你可能被问过无数次的问题开始，我也经常被问：杰，我没有钱，对金钱知之甚少，我该从哪里开始？该怎么做？

I want to start with a question that I know you probably get a million times and I get all the time. Jay, I have no money. I don't really know too much about money. Where do I start? What do I do?

人生中有两件事我希望我们能早点知道。第一是：如果你想赚钱，就必须遵循数学规律。而通常我们听到的却是诸如追随激情之类的话，比如‘照我赚钱的方式做，我靠房地产赚钱，你也该靠房地产赚钱’。

There's two things in life that I wish we were told earlier. And one is if you want to make money, you got to follow the math. And I think most often we're told things like follow our passion, you know, do what I did to make money. I made real estate money. You should make real estate money.

我认为这种建议相当糟糕。相反，我们应该观察大多数富人聚集的领域？是什么让他们致富？所以我更倾向于研究数据。我出身中产阶级，家里并不总是宽裕，还记得没钱是什么滋味。

And I think that's pretty bad I think instead we should look to where are most people rich? What makes most people rich? So I kind of go to the data. I came from really middle class kind of we didn't have money all the time. I remember what it was like to not have money.

我记得当初用借记卡时的感受，你知道的，我总担心在杂货店刷卡会失败。那种感觉糟透了。于是我开始四处寻找答案——在金融行业摸爬滚打十五年（暴露年龄了），我突然意识到有钱人都有一个共同点：所有权。

I remember what it was like when my debit card you know, I was a little worried stuff wouldn't go through at the grocery store. And I didn't like that feeling. And so I kind of started looking around. I was like, wait a second, where do people have money? After being in finance for whatever it is, fifteen years, I'm going give away my age, I realized people that have money have one thing ownership.

数据很能说明问题：70%的百万富翁是白手起家，这很有趣。我以前总以为财富靠继承或运气。而其中68%的百万富翁都拥有某种形式的所有权。

So the data is really clear on this. 70% of millionaires are self made, which which is interesting. I used to think maybe you just inherit it. Did they just get lucky? And then 68% of millionaires have some form of form of ownership.

他们要么收购企业，要么持有股权，要么创立公司。当我明白这点时，突然意识到问题在于——我既没有绝妙点子，也不懂赚钱之道，更缺乏启动资金。但至少你该明白：没有所有权，就永远无法实现财务自由。

They have actually bought a business or have equity in a business or built a business. And so when I realized that, I was like, the problem is I don't have a brilliant idea. Like, I don't know how to make money. I don't have any money to make money. But at least you have step one, which is if you don't have ownership, you're probably never going to be free financially.

你必须参与这场游戏。但这不意味着非要创业——创业艰难得很，很多时候简直苦不堪言，这点你深有体会。

You got to get some skin in the game. That doesn't mean that you have to become an entrepreneur. It's really hard to do that. It sucks many days. You know this very well.

有些周五你根本发不出工资，那种痛苦深入骨髓。但若明白所有权才是关键，你最该痴迷学习的就是金钱的语言。我年轻时当过记者，收入为零。那时我不懂为何自己有机会赚钱，而当时我在华雷斯城报道的那些女性——人称'死亡之城'——

There's Fridays when you're never going to make payroll, and that is like a deep, terrible, dark hurt, actually. But if you realize ownership is the name of the game, then you should probably obsess on one thing more than anything else, which is learn the language of money. And back when I was young, I was a journalist originally, made $0. And I realized that I had no idea why I had opportunities and ability to make some money. And let's say the women I was covering at the time in Juarez, who are they call it La Ciudad De Muerte, right?

那里每天都有女性被残害、强奸、谋杀，每年数千人。很多受害者姓桑切斯——恰巧是我的姓氏。我不禁思考：我们的区别在哪？仅仅因为我是美国人？

The city of death, which is where women are mutilated and raped and brutalized and found murdered all over the city every single day, thousands of women a year. There were many that had the last name Sanchez. My last name happens to be Sanchez. I was like, what's the difference between us? Is it that I'm American?

不，不仅如此。我认为还因为我掌握财务工具。金钱能抵御他人对你人生的操控，可悲但真实的是——贫穷意味着无力。经历过贫穷的人都懂这个道理。

No, that's not it alone. I think it's also that I had some financial tools and like money is a pushback against other people's architecture of your life. And it makes people care about you one way or the other, which is sad. But the truth of the matter is, if you are poor, you have no power. And anybody who's been poor before knows that is true.

你必须进入游戏场域。所以我的第一条建议是：如果身无分文，就要设法学习金钱语言。或许该像我一样进入金融行业，加入杰伊这样有智慧领导者的公司，向他们学习。你要痴迷于掌握这门在美国没人谈论的语言——毕竟金钱总被说成万恶之源？

You got to go where the game is played. So the first thing I tell you is if you don't have any cash, you need to find a way to figure out how to speak the language of money. And that probably means you maybe go work in finance like I did. You get with a company that has smart leaders like Jay, where you can actually go and learn from them and you obsess on, can I become fluent in the thing that nobody talks about in The US because money is supposed to be the root of all evil?

你之前分享的数据让我震惊——62%的美国人拒绝谈论金钱。这很可怕却不意外，就像你说的，我们总把金钱妖魔化。有趣的是有人指出，原文其实是'贪财是万恶之根'。

Yeah, you shared a statistic with me that I thought was mind blowing that 62% of Americans don't want to talk about money. Yeah. That is so scary, but it's also not surprising because like you just said, we've created this narrative that money is the root of all evil. And it was so fascinating because someone actually said this to me where if you look up the actual reference, it says love of money is the root of all evil.

我竟从不知道。有时我真好奇这些观念如何植入我们脑海？想想看，三大禁忌话题不就是政治、宗教和金钱吗？

I never knew that. Yeah. How did we I I do wonder sometimes how do we get programmed these ways? Because if you think about it, it's like what are the three things you're not supposed to talk about? Politics, religion, money.

说到政治和宗教，或许我还能理解。你可能会冒犯到别人。我信仰这个宗教，你持那种政治立场。如果两者冲突，那可能会很糟糕。

Now politics and religion, maybe I could understand. You could offend somebody. I believe this religion. You believe this political slant. And if if we could collide, that could be bad.

但涉及金钱时，谁会说不呢？难道有人希望大家都穷吗？为什么我们不能谈论它？我唯一能得出的结论是，每当我们获得更多所有权、更多财富时，我们就越难被控制。而当你更难被控制时，大型机构尤其是我们的政府，他们不喜欢这样。

But when it comes to money, who who's like, no. I wish you everybody was poor. Like, why wouldn't we be able to talk about it? And the only thing that I can determine from that is that every time we get a little bit more ownership, a little bit more money, we become harder to control. And when you're harder to control, big institutions and largely our governments, they don't like that.

总体而言，他们想要易于操控的民众。我认为这就是人们不谈钱的重要原因——实际上我们被塑造成更温顺的羔羊，不是因为上层人士邪恶，而是因为一旦掌权，人类就会变得有点可笑。我们不愿放弃权力，换作我可能也一样。

You you want a controllable populace by and large. And I think that is a big reason why people don't talk about money. It's actually that we have been programmed to be more malleable sheep in many ways, not because people are evil at the top, but because once we get power, we humans are a little funny. We don't like to give it up. No matter who we are, I would probably be the same.

这种权力集中让我们开始认为：'我更懂。你这穷人，让我施舍你些慈善吧，你自己搞不定的。'而我们应该说的是：'你和我一样有能力，如果经历你的人生，我可能就是你。所以不如让我传递些知识，因为那才是金钱的起点。'

And so that centralization of power, we start to think, I know better. You poor person, let me give you some charity. You can't figure it out. And instead, we should be saying, you are just as capable as I am, and I would probably be you if I lived your life. And so instead, why don't I transfer some knowledge because that's where money starts.

没错。对于那些正看着当前形势、觉得经济状况糟糕而忧心忡忡的人，你能描绘一下...

Yeah. What about people right now who are looking at the situation and just like the economy is in a bad place, We're super worried. Paint us a picture of

嗯。

Yeah.

美国当下的处境吗？

Where America is right now.

好吧，首先我们得承认现状艰难——我会坦诚相告，然后再讨论解决方案。我保证不会让你陷入绝望，但这就是当今世界的真相。

Well, I mean, well, let's talk first. We'll talk about how it's tough, and I'll be honest. And then we can talk about solutions. So I promise I won't leave you in a doom scroll. But here's the truth of what's happening in the world right now.

如果你年轻，当代青年对周遭世界感到愤怒，我理解原因。工资停滞不前，这代人实际收入比父母同龄时更低——Z世代是首例。问题是他们的大学文凭价格却涨了三到四倍。

If you're young, young people today are upset about what's happening in the world around them, and I understand why. You have wage stagnation. So we basically have not made any more money. And in fact, this generation, Gen Z, is the first generation where at their same age as their parents, they're making less money, not more. Problem is their university degrees are three to four X more expensive.

哦对了，房价也是。更糟的是通胀让今天的美元比五年前贬值许多。表面上我们有大量岗位空缺，但据说此刻有700万适龄男性失业——尽管就业报告显示职位多得离谱。

Oh, by the way, so is housing. Wait a second. Inflation is at a degree in which my dollar today is worth even substantially less than even five years ago. On top of that, yeah, we have all these jobs open. You know, 7,000,000 working age men supposedly are unemployed at this moment right now, even though the jobs report says that there are so many jobs.

这些工作是真实的吗？很大程度上不是。它们不是私营部门的，而是公共部门的，是政府工作。

Are the jobs real? Well, largely not. They're private sec they're not private sector. They're public sector. They're government jobs.

所以年轻人会说，等等，我活不下去。我吃不起饭。你知道，食品杂货更贵了。这确实是现实。

And so young people are like, wait a second. I can't live. I can't eat. You know, grocery is more expensive. And that's real, actually.

那些在TikTok上嘲笑年轻人抱怨工作难的人，我并不认同，因为数据显示现在确实很难。不仅对年轻人如此，但讨论他们很重要。不过事实是，在任何市场我们都能赚钱。尽管当前形势严峻，过去三年我一直强调一个希望：婴儿潮一代和年轻人将出人意料地达成某种和解。

And so the people that are making fun of young people in TikToks, you know, when they cry about their job being difficult, I don't I don't really vibe with that because the math says it's hard right now. And not just for young people, but I think it's important to talk about them. And the truth of the matter is, though, that in any market, we can make money. And so although it's really difficult out there, there's like one silver lining that I've kind of been screaming from the rooftops for the past three years. And people I think are starting to see it, which is that we are thankfully, I think, going to have a marriage between baby boomers and young people that would be very unexpected.

历史上年轻人总说：'好了，婴儿潮一代。你们搞砸了经济，不雇佣我们，不懂我们的生活，却听我们的音乐。'

So right now and historically, young people have said, okay, boomer. You messed up our economy, boomer. You're not employing me, boomer. You don't understand my life. You listen to the music that young people like.

他们在很多方面不喜欢那代人。而婴儿潮一代则说：'你们在躺平，不够努力，滚出我的地下室。'这两代人一直处于某种静默的战争中。

They don't like that generation in a lot of ways. Then the baby boomers are like, you guys are quiet quitting. You're not working very hard. Get out of my basement. And so these two generations have been at war in some ways, like a quiet war.

现在随着所有权转移——我们可以讨论'财富大转移'——美国史上最富有的婴儿潮一代（发达国家都如此）即将退休。他们掌握着美国68万亿美元的财富。

And now I think with the transfer of ownership that we're seeing, and we can talk about the great wealth transfer, I think we have an opportunity where the baby boomer generation, the richest generation that we have ever seen in The US, which has mimicked in all other countries around the world, by the way, that are developed countries. This generation is about to sunset. They're getting ready to retire. They're ready to move on. But they own 68,000,000,000,000 in wealth in just The US.

有趣的是年轻人以为这些财富会自动转移：'我能得到房子吗？车子吗？遗产吗？'

The interesting part is the young people think, well, that money must get transferred somehow. Right? Does that mean I get a house? Does that mean I get car? Does that mean I get inheritance?

问题在于这些财富主要不在房产或银行存款里，60%都集中在婴儿潮一代经营的小企业里。我们必须让年轻人接管这些企业，否则我们会陷入日本式的困境。

The problem is that money is not tied up in just assets. It's not tied up in houses and bank accounts. It by and large is tied up in small businesses because baby boomers own 60% of all small businesses. And so I think we've got to find a way for the young people to take over these baby boomer businesses because otherwise, then we're in a really bad spot. Then we're Japan.

是的。你认为当前我们对赚钱方式存在哪些认知误区？你把聚光灯打在小企业上，但我们被什么分散了注意力？

Yeah. What are some of the mistakes that you think we think about what makes money? Like what are we thinking makes money right now where we're being distracted, where actually small businesses is where you're pointing the spotlight. Yeah. But what are we distracted by?

我觉得现在很多年轻人追逐华而不实的东西。比如多年前我有机会投资Robinhood，现在肠子都悔青了。

I think a lot of young people today chase the shiny object. Right? And and think about this for a second. I remember, like, many years ago, I had an opportunity to invest in Robinhood. And I could kick myself financially because I didn't.

但当时我没这么做的原因是，我像业余爱好者一样在日内交易股票，然后将其游戏化，以至于每次气球爆炸（因为我们下了一单交易）都会引发肾上腺素反应，这可能是个坏主意。我觉得我们不应该那样把财务游戏化。我认为这正是发生在年轻人身上的事。他们被告诉——我是说，把钱投进股市做日内交易。他们被灌输NFT和玩弄加密猴子的概念。

But at the time, why I didn't is I was like day trading stocks as amateurs, and then gamifying it so we get, like, adrenal response every time a balloon pops because we placed a trade might be a bad idea. Like, I don't think we should probably gamify our finances that way. And I think that's what's happened to young people. They're being told I mean, put it in the stock market and day trade. They're being told NFTs and playing with crypto monkeys.

他们被引导在加密货币甚至比特币上进行价格投机。他们用股票组合做保证金交易。用仅有的那点钱，他们试图通过这种快速致富的投机把戏，而可悲的是这从来不会成功。关于金钱，我唯一确信的是：如果你的解决方案是‘嘿，我要在金钱上赢，因为那个人会输’，那你永远赚不到钱。如果你认为存在‘输赢’场景而自己会是赢家，很遗憾，你才是接盘的那个。

They're being told price speculation on crypto or even Bitcoin. They're taking margin calls out on their stock portfolios. And with the little amount of money that they have, they're trying for this get rich scheme speculation, and the shitty part is that just never works. You know, the the one sure thing I know about money is that you're never gonna make it if your solution is, hey, I'm gonna win at money because that guy's gonna lose. If you think that there is a lose win scenario and you are the one that's gonna win, I hate to tell you, you're the one holding the bag.

说得好。

Well said.

是啊。我真希望有人多告诉我们，赚钱其实不必是零和游戏，可以是双赢。当你发现某个机会时会意识到：‘我凭什么能从这个交易中赚钱？哦，因为我在解决一个痛点，为他人生活创造价值，并且正确评估了自己的技能价值。’问题是大多数人甚至不知道自己擅长什么，或如何评估这项技能。

Yeah. And I wish people told us that more, that actually making money doesn't have to be lose win. It could be win win. And that is when you know you've actually found a good opportunity is when you go, okay. Why would I make money on this deal?

我们可以做些练习，让任何人都能明白：比如我科迪懂营销，那我该如何量化这个技能的价值？如何用它换取别人公司的股权？最后我想说，比起其他，首先我们总觉得钱是肮脏的。

Oh, because I am solving a pain point that adds value to another human's life, and I've properly valued what my own skill set is. The problem is most of us don't even know what we're good at or how you'd value that skill. We can play around with some exercises so that any human could figure out, okay, I, Cody, know how to market something. How do I figure out how much that is worth and how could I transfer some of that to get a percentage of equity in somebody's company just for the skill that I have? And the last thing I want to say there is like, more than anything, I think, one, we think money's bad.

其次，金钱令人恐惧。不知为何，我们害怕它——害怕赚不到钱，害怕失去它，害怕自我价值与金钱绑定，甚至不敢开口谈钱。

And then, two, money's scary. Like, I don't really know why, but I think we're we're scared of it. And we're scared that we might not be able to make it. And we're scared what if we lose it? And what if our self worth is tied up in it and should we actually ask for it?

这些对金钱的恐惧或许正是我们避而不谈的原因。我们必须克服这点，因为金钱只是工具。就像盖房子时，你是想用一堆小钉子和锤子，还是想要电动螺丝刀？在这个例子里，我选择更强大的工具。

So we have all these fears surrounding money, which is probably why we don't talk about it too. And we got to kind of work through that because money is just a tool. So it's just like if you want to build a house, do you wanna use, you know, a bunch of tiny little nails and your own hammer or do you wanna have a screw gun? And like in this instance, I wanna have the bigger gun.

没错。我想从听众中选取三种典型处境，听听你的建议。假设有位刚大学毕业的听众，他们现在首先该做什么？该考虑什么？

Yeah. I wanna look at three scenarios of our audience and where they sit and look at what your advice would be for them at that point. So let's say we have a listener who just graduated from college. What should they be doing first? What should they be thinking about right now?

好。我是这样看待赚钱的：我们有个四步流程。如果你现在没钱，这就是持续赚钱并让钱生钱的方法。第一步是学习——初期必须痴迷于一件事。

Yeah. Well, here's how I think about making money. We have a four step process that I think if you don't have money now, here is how you make it consistently over time and you have your money go out and bring back friends with it. The first is you've gotta learn. We've gotta obsess in the beginning about one thing only.

不是关注薪资，而是思考：如何尽可能多地吸收知识，为下一步提升技能栈做准备？学习之后，能否提升技能使其比昨天更有价值？第三步是如何增加收入？在考虑投资之前，先想想如何用现有能力赚更多钱？

It's not what your salary is. It's how can I cram as much information as humanly possible in my brain in order for me to then do the next thing, which is increase my skill stack? After I learn, can I increase my skills so that my skills are more valuable today than they were yesterday? And the third is how can I increase my income? So before you go thinking about investing in things overall, how can I just make more money currently with what I'm doing?

最终，我们可以进行投资。完成这三个步骤后，最后一步是如何用我的钱让钱为我工作？但一开始你并没有钱，明白吗？你也确实缺乏技能。

And then finally, we can get to invest. So after we do these three steps, the final one is how do I take my money and make my money work for me? But in the beginning, you don't have money. You know? You don't really have skills.

你可能也没有广泛的人脉。所以实际上你要做的，是利用你作为渴望成功者的汗水、经验和时间，先积累资金最终才能进行投资。我认为年轻人被灌输的另一个谎言是：刚步入社会就能通过芬迪、古驰、普拉达、兰博基尼这些网络快钱套路或Airbnb套利之类迅速致富——天啊，真希望有人早点告诉我这完全是错误做法。

You probably don't have a ton of connections. And so what you actually wanna do is use your sweat equity and your experience and time as a really, maybe, hungry individual to get money to eventually be able to invest the money. And I think that's the other thing young people are told that's a lie is that you can go out as a young person and, you know, you know, Fendi, Gucci, Prada, Lamborghini on the internet make a bunch of fast cash and Airbnb arbitrage or whatever. Man, I wish somebody had told me earlier on that's a terrible thing to do.

是的。但我觉得特别有意思的是，当你谈到技能提升时，我们大学毕业后总以为学位就是技能投资，但你实际指的是能真正影响职场的高价值技能、才能。这完全是两回事。我见过很多年轻人，他们为学位花费巨资，学术上很聪明，但这些技能无法转化为：如何帮公司赚更多钱、如何有效领导团队、如何建立职能体系流程。

Yeah. And I think what's really interesting though is when you're talking about improving of skills, I think when we graduate college, you think that that was the skill, like that your degree was the investment in the skill, but really what you're talking about are high value skills, talents, abilities that actually make an impact in a workplace. And those are really different. And so I'd meet a lot of young people who sadly have spent so much money on their degree, are really smart academically. But then that skill doesn't translate into knowing how to make their company more money, knowing how to lead people really well, knowing how to build functions, systems, processes.

于是就会出现：等等，我苦读这么多年却无法转化。是啊...

And therefore it's like, well, wait a minute, I just studied all these years, but it doesn't translate. Yeah, I

你说得太对了。长期以来我们雇佣顶尖大学和金融机构的人，精心挑选他们，因为这曾是毅力、坚持和智商的表现。但现在越来越多顶级机构开始摒弃这点——比如谷歌的工程岗其实不强制要求大学学历。

think you're exactly right. I mean, a long time, we employed people from the top universities and financial firms. We would go out and we would hand select them because that would be an indicator of their grit, perseverance, and potentially their intellect, their IQ. Now by and large, you're starting to see a lot of the top institutions bypass that. You know, Google doesn't mandate that you have a college degree if you're going into an engineering degree, actually.

我认为这应该让我们感到解放。这打破了需要六位数成本才能跨越的精英阶梯壁垒，现在它真正在问：你有多渴望成功？别告诉我你学过什么，展示你能做什么。

And I think that should be really liberating for us. It's basically breaking down this barrier that's a six figure barrier that allowed for the few, the elites, to stair step over everybody else. And now it's actually saying, how bad do want it? And don't tell me what you learned. Show me what you can do.

或者更好的方式是展示你做过什么。所以未来的简历应该是：如果有人对你说'杰，我刚从沃顿毕业，非常聪明，本科在哈佛，现在想为你工作'...

Or even better, show me what you did. And so I think the resume of the future is actually if somebody came to you, Jay, and they were like, I just graduated from Wharton. I am very smart. You know, I also did my undergraduate degree at Harvard. I now want to come work for you.

你会问：你会做什么？懂市场营销吗？会运营饮料公司吗？能提高我们的投资回报率吗？哦，你只是在案例研究里看过理论？

You'd be like, what do you know how to do? Do you know how to market? Do you know how to grow a beverage company? Do you know how to increase our investment return? Oh, you kind of, like, theoretically have looked about how to do that in a case study?

这远不如有人说：知道吗？我在Eroan和全食超市的饮料团队工作过，我搞清楚了他们全国范围的库存采购模式。

That's probably less interesting to you than somebody that goes, you know what? I was part of the beverage team at Eroan and Whole Foods, and I figured out sort of across the country how they buy different pieces of inventory.

没错，你已经成功引起我的注意了。

Yeah, you got my attention already.

没错，正是如此。也许因为我想帮你发展这个个人事业——我知道你在乎它，从你的社交媒体就能看出来——所以我为你整理了这个小小的电子表格。这些是他们关心的事情。我能免费为你工作三到六个月吗？如果效果不错，我们能否一起做些更大更好的事情？

Right, exactly. And maybe because I want to help you grow this individual business, which I know you care about because I see it on your socials, I put together this little spreadsheet for you. Here's the things they care about. Could I come work for you for free for three or six months? And if that works out, could we do something better and bigger?

当我在网上提出'免费工作'时，人们通常的反应是：年轻人会立刻想起你之前说过我们穷得叮当响。我绝不是要否定这个现实，但我们必须诚实面对——年轻时，你注定要比想象中更努力、更持久地工作，做不喜欢的事，与不喜欢的人共处，直到最终赢得做有趣事情的资格。但第一份工作不会因为艰难而压垮你，真正致命的是日复一日处理廉价低级任务的单调感。

The problem that people usually have on the Internet when I throw out the word work for free is young people are like, remember that part where you told us that we are broke and we don't have any money? So I'm not trying to dismiss that at all, but I do think we have to be honest about the fact that when we're young, you're gonna have to work harder than you think, longer than you think, doing stuff you don't like with people you probably don't like until eventually you get the right to do something really interesting. But like you don't die in your first job from it being really hard and challenging, you die from the absolute monotony and the low level tasks you have to do for basically pennies on the dollar.

对，完全同意。假设有人30岁了...

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Absolutely. I fully agree. Let's say someone's 30 years old.

是啊。他们都在30到35岁之间。毕业工作十到十五年，一直待在同一家公司，可能只跳槽过一次。

Yeah. They've all 30 to 35. They work ten, fifteen years after graduating. They've been at the same company. Maybe they've moved once.

没错。昨天我刚和这样的人聊过。她在某家公司待了六年，公司很棒，简历很漂亮，但她觉得'我不想留在这里，这里看不到未来，却又不敢辞职'。

Yeah. I was actually talking to someone like this yesterday. She's been at this one company for six years. It's a great company, great on her resume, but she's like, I don't really want to be here. I don't think this is where I see my future, but I'm so scared of quitting.

我不懂投资，存款大概也不多。现在很懊悔，过去十年没存下多少钱让我感到羞愧自责。

I don't know how to invest. I probably didn't save that much anyway. Now I feel bad about it. I'm probably feeling a bit of shame and guilt that I didn't save that much over the last ten years. Yeah.

我该怎么办，Cody？

What would I do, Cody?

首先，当今时代'没钱也能赚钱'这个观念非常强大。如果30岁的我处于这种处境，我会先坐下来想清楚：我真正擅长什么技能是别人愿意付费的？当你知道自己的变现能力——比如是否有人咨询你的专业意见？能否在这个领域接到工作？

Well, one, would say these days you do not have to have money to make money, which is incredibly powerful. So when I think about it, if I'm 30 and I am at a company like that, what would I do today? Well, I would actually probably sit down and figure out what am I actually skilled at that somebody else would pay me for. Once you know what somebody else would pay you for, which is really just like, do people ask for opinion on this? Could you actually get jobs in this space?

以我为例，我其实很难被雇佣——没人会想雇我这种满脑子自己想法的人。如果她也是这类人，最佳方案是寻找能解决他人痛点的合作机会。只要理解我所说的'交易艺术'（本质是金钱语言），你就能通过谈判获得业务份额，实现三种结果之一。

If it was me because I'm kind of unemployable, like, you don't want me to work for you. I like, I got my own ideas. I want to do things this way. If she's like that, then what you want to do is you want to try to partner with somebody where you can be the solution to their problem. And because you understand what I call deal making, which is really the language of money, you can negotiate an ability for you to own part of a thing in order for you to have one of three outcomes.

如果她能帮助企业增收、降本或减轻经营者负担，就能通过谈判获得股权和收益分成。真希望有人早点教我这点——这正是咨询公司、私募机构乃至世界顶级组织的运作方式。我称之为'专业能力股权化'。

If she can figure out if she can help a business grow its revenue, make more money, if she can help a business cut its costs, or if she can help decrease the pain of a business owner, you can negotiate your way into a business and have equity in it and upside. And I wish somebody had taught me that earlier because this is what consultants do. This is what private equity firms do. This is what some of the largest institutions in the world do. I call it expertise to equity.

但如果我是她，我会说，别急着另谋高就。除非你有个让你甘愿赴汤蹈火去实现的绝妙创意——如果有，请务必去做。但如果你只是想着'我没有那种执念，我只想赚钱，想获得尊重，想让技能有用武之地，同时获得超额收入'...

But if I was her, I'd say, don't go find another job. And if you don't have a brilliant idea that you're like, I would die for the want of creating this thing in the world. If you have that, please go do it. But if you're like, I don't have that. I just want to make money, and I want to feel respected, and I want to feel like my skills fit somewhere and I'm able to have an outsized income.

若你属于后者，就该学会评估自身技能价值，尝试与人谈判利润分成协议，并涉足'所有权游戏'——比如对小微企业主说：'我懂营销，可以兼职帮你推广。若我能让贵司营收增长50%，能否分得这新增部分的10%？'你觉得会有老板拒绝吗？当然不会，因为这根本是稳赚不赔的买卖。

If that's you, then I think you should try to value your skillset, then you should try to negotiate for an upside deal with somebody, and you should try your hand at this game called ownership, which is where you say, hey, small business, I know how to market. Can I help you market at the side while I'm working on this company? And because I help you grow your revenue by 50%, could I keep 10% of the 50% I grow? Do you think a small business owner would say yes to that? Of course they would because there is no downside.

我们常误以为商业创富只有两种风险路径：要么自掏腰包投资（这是风险），要么创业即全身心投入。分享个数据：任何十年周期内，90%初创企业会倒闭。头三年基本零收入，之后创业者年均收入约4.6万美元——听起来不错，但别忘了此前三年颗粒无收。

And I think more often than not, we think that the only risk you can take in making money in business is putting your own cash down, that's a risk, or starting a business AKA dedicating your life to something. The last part I'll get a little statistic on us is ninety percent of startups fail inside any rolling ten year period. We know that statistic. Most startups make $0 for the first three years. After that, the average entrepreneur makes about $46,000 a year, which is great, but not when you've been making 0 for three years.

更现实的是，我们这代人背负各种账单，却总把赌注押在空想而非事实上。所以我的观点是：能否量化你的技能价值，为将来力不从心时争取更多收益保障？

And then on top of that, we've got this nation of people who have all these bills to pay and they are betting on hopes and dreams as opposed to realities. And so my commentary is, can you figure out how to value your skills so you can negotiate a little bit more upside for that day where you can't work anymore?

大家好，我是杰·谢蒂，激动宣布我的播客巡回演出！这是《On Purpose》播客首次线下见面会，我将与神秘嘉宾——可能是明星、顶尖健康专家或企业领袖——在你所在的城市展开深度对谈。

Hey, everyone. It's Jay Shetty, and I'm thrilled to announce my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can see my On Purpose podcast live and in person. Join me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO or business leader.

我们将共同体验激发成长、启迪智慧的互动环节，建立真实连接。迫不及待想见到你们！门票已开售，立即访问jschetti.me抢票吧。绝对值得期待。

We'll dive into experiences designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build real connections. I can't wait to see you there. Tickets are on sale now. Head to jschetti.me and get yours today. Yeah, definitely.

听到这样睿智坦诚的建议真令人欣慰。长久以来我们总鼓吹'追随激情''裸辞追梦'，但正如你所说，创业可能失败，你的才能或许更适合现有岗位，并非人人都适合当老板。

I'm so happy to hear such like smart, honest advice because I do think you're so right for so long. We keep telling everyone like, follow your passion, like just quit your job, like jump over. You know, it's hard because like you said, that business may not work. Your skills may be better off here. You might not be an entrepreneur.

有些人注定要辅佐创业者共同成长。不过我想指出：许多小企业主或新锐领袖也常抗拒'利益共享'理念。举个亲身经历：创业初期我曾提议与某专业人士按75:25分成，因对方具备互补技能。

You might be someone who's gonna work with an entrepreneur and build. I wanted to address something though. I do find a lot of leaders and a lot of founders of small businesses or up and coming businesses to also be quite resistant to recognizing the value of sharing. So I'll give an example of what I mean by this. Like when I was starting out, I remember speaking to people who are much more established than I was.

当时所有前辈都反对：'杰，你在打造平台，必须100%控股！'但我坚持认为：对方能帮我分担压力、管理团队，我希望他们获得成长，感受到切身利益关联。

And I said, Hey, I've got a person I'm gonna work with. I'm gonna split things 75, 25. And they're gonna get 25% of profits. I'm gonna keep 75 because they have a skill set I don't have and it will be complimentary. And I remember everyone telling me it was a really bad idea because they're like Jay, like, no, you're building a platform.

他们能替我分担压力管理团队，我希望见证他们成长，让他们感受到自己是利益共同体。

You should own a 100% of it. And I was like, but no, they're going to manage stress for me. They're going to manage teams. I want to see them grow. I want them to feel like they've got skin in the game.

现在，你知道，自那个决定过去八年后，我快乐多了。而且我和我的一位商业伙伴关系非常好。我们相处得很融洽。他现在的投入和当初一样多。事情发展得非常顺利。

And now, you know, eight years later since that decision, I'm so much happier. And I have a great relationship with my, one of my business partners. We have a great relationship. He's as invested as he is, as he was then. Things have grown really well.

我发现，那些试图紧握最后5%到10%股份的人实际上并没有发展起来。这让我觉得非常有趣，因为我一次又一次地看到这种情况，即使是创始人和新领导者也害怕放弃某些东西。你会如何鼓励他们以不同的方式思考这个问题？

And I'm like, the people that were trying to hold on to that last five to 10% actually haven't grown. And so it was really interesting to me though, that I see that again and again and again, where even founders and new leaders are actually scared of parting with something. How would you encourage them to think about that differently?

嗯，实际上我会说要对合作关系保持警惕。

Well, I actually would say be scared of partnerships.

哦，太好了。

Oh, great.

因为50%的婚姻以离婚告终，但100%的商业‘婚姻’通常都会结束，因为没有企业能永远存在。对吧？所以在某个时候，你和你的商业伙伴之间会出现裂痕。是的，大体上是这样。而且可能你们之间会有几次裂痕。

Because fifty percent of marriages end divorce, but a hundred percent of business marriages typically end because no business lasts forever. Right? And so at some point, you're going to have a rift with your business partner Yep. By and large. And probably you'll have a few rifts with them.

所以实际上我会说，对这种情况感到害怕是很酷的。你应该害怕。我希望人们思考的是，我想让‘风险’不再是一个贬义词，因为我认为财富的关键实际上是承担一些风险。问题是，如果你像我一样，我有点胆小。我在公司工作了12年，因为我不敢独自做事。

So I would actually say it's cool to be scared about that. You should be. The the thing that I I want people to think about is like, I want to make risk a non four letter word because I think that the key to wealth is actually risk, taking some of it. The question is, if you're like me, I'm kind of a wuss. Like, I stayed in a corporate job for twelve years because I was too scared to do things by myself.

尽管我技能相当高，也有一定积蓄，我还是觉得自己肯定不行，我不认为自己有能力。我花了很长时间才走到那一步。所以我所做的一切都是关于风险缓释，这是一个听起来很高大上的金融词汇，意思是如何让结果对我如此有利，即使我没有自己想象的那么聪明，也几乎无论如何都是双赢？

Even though I was like pretty highly skilled, I had a decent amount of cash. I was like, definitely not going to make it. I don't think I'm I don't think I'm capable. Like, it took me a long time to get there. And so what I did is I'm all about risk mitigation, which is like a fancy, you know, finance y word to say, how can I just make the outcome so in my favor that even if I'm not as smart as I think I am, it's almost like a win win no matter what?

所以在这种情况下，我可能会说，给创始人一个他们觉得拒绝就是愚蠢的好交易。所以如果我来找你，杰伊，而杰伊刚刚起步，我不会对一个有大平台的人这样做。他们有太多资源了。你需要找一个更容易接近、资源不多、和你水平相当的人。但当你找到那个人时，你就说，嘿，双赢的交易。

And so in that instance, I would probably say, tell the make the founder a deal so good that they would feel dumb saying no to it. And so if if I was coming to you, Jay, and Jay was just starting out, I wouldn't do this to somebody who has a big platform. They have way too much too many resources. You need to go with somebody that's more accessible to you, that doesn't have a lot of resources, that's more on your level. But when you find that person, you go, hey, win win deal.

除非我提供了X价值，否则一分钱也别给我。真的什么都不给。不要一开始就给我公司股份。我再也不会一开始就给别人公司股份了。我曾经这样做过一次。

Don't give me a cent unless I provide X value. Like literally nothing. Don't give me a percentage of the company right away. I never give a percentage of my companies right away anymore. I did once.

那次让我损失了一百万美元。我很生气。我再也没这么做了。所以你可以做所谓的‘赚入’或基于里程碑的交付物，我知道这听起来可能有点无聊。

It cost me a million bucks. I was pissed. I didn't do it again. So you can do what's called an earn in or milestone based deliverables, which I know sounds like a little maybe boring if people

很高兴听到你给出这个建议，太棒了。

are listening to I'm so glad you're giving this advice. It's great.

没错。我是说，你要做的就是表明：嘿，我爱你，你爱我，我们会永远在一起。

Yeah. I mean, what you wanna do is say, hey. I love you. You love me. We're gonna be together forever.

万一你遇到个火辣的第三者然后跟人跑了，我得有能力把生意拿回来对吧？所以我要换个说法：嘿，这生意大部分风险都是我承担的，资金也是我投的。除非你投入和我等值的钱，否则你只能通过时间或业绩来获得股权或收益分成。

In the off chance that you see a hot little side piece and you run off with them, I want an ability to get the business back. Right? And so in that way, I am going to instead say, hey, I'm taking all the risk in this business for the most part. I'm putting in the capital. Unless you're gonna put in money that is equal to me, you only get the equity in the business or the upside in the business if you it's either duration or it's execution.

要么你待满一两年（这叫悬崖式投资），要么你帮我赚到第一个百万、第二个百万...达成这些里程碑你才能拿股份。如果没做到，咱们好聚好散——反正婚前协议都签好了，规则就是这样。我觉得我们都该开始用这种思维考虑问题。

So either you're here for one, two, three years, which is called cliff based investing, or you're here for the first million that you helped me get in and then the second million and the third million. And if you help me hit those milestones, you get the equity. If you don't, I wish you well. You wish me well, but we've already signed a prenup, and this is how it works. And so I think we need to start thinking like that.

这很不像美国作风。我们不太习惯谈判，英国人可能也是。其实印度人谈判超厉害，中东很多人也是，但英美人士真的不擅长讨价还价。

And it's very non American. We're not so used to negotiating. Probably non British too. Actually, Indians, incredible at negotiation. Same with a lot of people in The Middle East, but British and American people not so good at negotiating.

我们总觉得谈判显得掉价。小时候我妈——我们叫她斗牛犬，她超厉害——总是讨价还价。我爸是白手起家的商业奇才，但砍价都是我妈上。不知道你有没有同感，有时看她为了几块钱争执，我都觉得...

We think that it's like a low level signal on average. So like when I was young, my mom, we call her the pit bull, she's amazing, and she would always negotiate everything. My dad's an incredible businessman, like totally pulled himself up by his own bootstraps, but my mom would go negotiate. And I don't know if you ever felt like this, but I remember sometimes, my mom would be like negotiating for a different price. I'd be like,

妈呀，太熟悉了。

mom. Oh, all the time.

就想说别砍了直接付吧。但她会瞪着我说：等花你钱时随你便，现在花我的钱，受不了就一边呆着去。

Like, stop. You just pay it. And she would look at me and she would say like, once it's your money, you pay it. But it's my money. So like, get out of here if you don't wanna deal with this.

以前觉得特别丢人，现在才明白这叫智慧。富人最常做而穷人几乎不做的事就是谈判——穷人接受定价，富人制定定价。

And I used to think it was so embarrassing. And now I realize, oh, that's very smart. And it's actually the thing the wealthy do more than anything else that the poor do not, which is the wealthy negotiate everything and the poor take price while the rich set price.

我从未用'制定定价vs接受定价'的角度思考过。你在商业关系中为双方规避风险的缜密思维让我深受启发，很高兴你能这样系统阐述，我完全赞同。太多商业关系都因缺乏这种意识而问题重重。

Well, I've never thought about it like that. Set price versus taking a price. And I love your mindful habits on mitigating risk in a business relationship, both sides. I think it's, I'm glad that you laid it out that way because I completely agree with you. The amount of business relationships that have challenges and issues and everything.

我想回到你刚才提到被困住十二年的那段时期。之所以想探讨这个，是因为现在当我看到你——无论是线上形象、写书、参加各种精彩播客，你说话如此自信清晰——很难想象你曾有过怀疑且花了很长时间才走出来。带我走进你最终辞职前那二十四个月（或十二个月）的心理历程，科迪的脑海里究竟在经历什么？

I want to go back a few moments to when you were saying you were stuck for twelve years. And the reason why I want to talk about that is because now when I see you and whether someone sees you online or writing your book, or, you know, you're on all these awesome podcasts and you're talking so confidently and you're so clear, to hear that you had doubt and it took you a long time to get over it, Walk me through what was going on in your mind during that twenty four month period, twelve month period before you actually managed to quit. What was going inside Cody's head?

哦，是啊杰，我觉得我可能会一辈子当个打工仔。

Oh, yeah. I think I would have stayed an employee forever, Jay.

我也是。所以才问你。

Me too. That's why I'm asking.

听着，如果现在有人因为你是员工而看低你，就让那人滚远点——我敢说雪莉·桑德伯格的身价比多数创业者都高。她虽在企业内部工作，却积累了巨额财富、声望和影响力。我讨厌人们贬低雇员价值。没有那些愿意团队协作而非单打独斗的人，你我根本做不成现在的事。

I like and and I also think if you're listening right now and you ever feel less than for being an employee, you tell that person to pound sand because I guarantee you, Sheryl Sandberg is worth a lot more than many entrepreneurs. And she was an entrepreneur. She worked inside of a business and amassed massive wealth, prestige, status, and impact from it. And so I I I don't like when people make employees feel less than. You and I couldn't do what we do if we didn't have people who also wanted to build a vision with a team as opposed to an individual.

重点在于，无论是员工还是创始人，都能赚大钱。关键是要有利益绑定和上升空间。而获得这些的前提是创造价值——不是伸手要，而是凭实力挣。

So one, you can make a ton of money whether you're an employee or whether you are the founder of the business. You just got to get a little skin in the game and upside. And you get skin in the game and upside when you have more value. You don't just ask for it. You've got to be able to earn it.

那两年在拉丁美洲经营业务时，我把资产管理规模从零做到十亿美元。在墨西哥、智利、哥伦比亚、秘鲁这些毫无人脉的陌生之地白手起家，这让我非常自豪。

And so when was when I was, you know, thinking those last two years in the business, I was running a business in Latin America. I had taken the business from zero to a billion dollars in assets under management. I had done it in a place that I had never lived, Mexico, Chile, Colombia, Peru. I didn't have contacts there. I'd like built something from nothing, and I was really proud of that.

但当时我不擅长谈判——也许这正是我现在痴迷交易的原因。我和一位敬重的前辈做了笔烂交易，他掌控公司后，我虽建立起庞大业务却无法带走资产。除非留守等公司出售分股，但我不想耗上三十年。

But I wasn't very good at doing deals back then. And maybe that's why I'm obsessed with it now, because I did a shitty deal with a guy that I respect a lot, but he was just better than me. And he ran the company and I built up this huge thing, But basically, I had no way to take the assets of the business with me. The only thing that I could do is stay at that business and continue to get partnership until they eventually sold. And I was like, gosh, I don't wanna be here for thirty years.

那位CEO信奉'闷声发财'，认为露富会招祸；而我坚信'共同富裕'。这种根本理念分歧让我们在经营方向上始终对立。

And at the time, again, I respected the CEO a lot, but we didn't believe in the same world. Like, I believe in a world in which we can all get rich together. He believed in a world in which he told me we get rich quietly. And he believed that if you told people that you were rich, they came after you, which sometimes they do. Mhmm.

正因如此，他选择低调自保，而我不愿活在那种世界里。最后两年里，我们各执己见——我认为该这样经营，他坚持那样运作。

And because of that, he wanted to protect himself and be quiet. And I said, I don't wanna live in that world. And so we thought about that. I thought we should run the business this way. He thought we should run the business that way.

直到有天他约我去海滩散步——他如今掌管着数万亿规模的企业，我们至今仍是朋友——但当时他下了最后通牒：'我想往左划，你却要向右'。

And so for those last two years, if he hadn't finally taken me on a beach for a walk, him and I went, he runs a multi hundreds, hundreds, hundreds of billions of dollar company. We're still friends to this day. But he essentially gave me an ultimatum. He said, listen, I wanna row left. You wanna row right.

问题在于你需要拥有自己的船。你得有自己的船。你现在在我的船上却试图往反方向划。我们要朝这个方向前进。所以你必须做出决定。

The problem is you need to get your own ships. You got to get your own boat. You're on my boat and you're trying to row this way. We're going this way. So you got to make a decision.

当时我气疯了。我觉得，这是我白手起家建立的。你们连西班牙语都不会说。我在这儿打拼。表现得像我理应拥有这一切似的。

And at the time, I was so mad. I was like, I built this from nothing. You guys can't even speak Spanish. I'm down here. Do it like I was I was super entitled.

后来我意识到，科迪，你有为创建这个生意投入过一分钱吗？没有。你有承担过风险吗？没有。除了来这里这件事算是他的贡献。

Then I realized, Cody, did you put any of the money on the table to build this business? No. You know, did did you take the risk? No. Besides coming here like that was his.

所以他是对的。而我带不走任何东西。我确实让原来的二把手接管了那项业务，这还不错。她至今仍在经营。但我当时真的对自己又气又伤心。

And so he was right. And I couldn't take anything with me. I did put my old number two in charge of that business, which is cool. She still runs it to this day. But I was really, like, mad at myself and sad.

因此在离开前，我做了许多小额投资。我称之为撒筹码。当你开始赚点钱时，我认为开始投资你最终想从中获利的领域很有帮助。我知道自己想涉足风险投资类业务，所以开始投资一些风投公司。

And so before I left there, I had done a lot of little investments. I call them throwing out my chips. So, you know, once you start to make a little money, I think it's really helpful to start investing in the things that you want to eventually earn from. So I knew I wanted to get into some venture capital like things. So I started investing in some venture capital firms.

所以当他最后给我下通牒时，我跳槽去了另一家公司，那时我甚至没勇气单干。我和几个人合伙了。伙计，当你不相信自己时，很多糟糕事都会找上门。我觉得宇宙会暗示你该做什么，如果你不听，它会烦你一阵子。

And so when he finally gave me that ultimatum, I jumped ship, went to another company, and I didn't even have the balls to do it by myself then. I was partnered up with a few other people. And man, like a lot of terrible things can happen to you when you don't believe in yourself. And I think the universe like, it it will tell you kind of what you need to do. And then if you don't listen, it'll annoy you for a while.

然后某天它会直接给你一记耳光。这是我的经历。你们可能有过更温和的体验——就像'来吧我们该这么做'，然后它直接把你推下悬崖。

And then at some point, it'll just kick you in the face. And like, that's my experience. You probably have a nicer But experience with the it's kind of like, come on, we should do this. We should do this. And it just pushes you off the cliff.

于是我替这家公司筹集了大量资金。有几个合伙人。最终我们闹翻了。再次成为无业游民。我想往左走。

And so with me, I raised a ton of money for this company. Had these couple of partners. And at the end, like, it didn't work out between us. And again, unemployable. I wanted to go left.

他们想往右走。我谈的条件也不够好。这种情况发生了两次。但最后一次我谈成了更好的条件。我说你们必须按我的贡献买断我，我要去做新业务，还要带走部分投资人。

They wanted to go right. And I didn't really do that good of a deal. And so twice this happened. But that last time I did a better deal. And so I said, you guys have to pay me out for what I did and I'm going to go do this new business, and I want to take some of our investors.

所以如果不是有人把我逼出公司，如果不是另有人说'我们不想和你合作'，我永远都不会独自创业。所以听众里如果有人长期困在所谓的企业工作中，这没关系。尝试多次才成功也没关系。我不认为赚钱的唯一途径就是成为创始人独自打拼，永远不参与企业工作。

And so if somebody hadn't pushed me out of a company and if somebody else hadn't also said, no, we don't want to do this with you, I never would have done it by myself. And so I think it's it's okay if somebody's listening and you're stuck in a corporate job, quote unquote stuck for a long time. That's okay. And it's also okay if it takes you a few tries. And I don't think that the only way to make money is to go be a entrepreneur and founder and do it all by yourself and never work in corporate America.

我非常感激他们几十年来在我身上花费的金钱。

I'm very grateful for the money that they spent on me for decades.

没错，完全同意。正如你所说，我认为有很多优秀的企业家典范。我觉得这更多是一种思维方式。从你的话里我听出来的是要真正投入其中，善于谈判，成为主导者，对吧？

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's plenty of good examples, as you said, of entrepreneurs. And I think that's, it's more a mindset thing. What I'm hearing from you is it's getting skin in the game. It's negotiating well, it's being an owner, right?

这就是我真正听到的核心。如果人们能从我们目前的讨论中记住三点，那就是你应该关注的重点——而不是总想着'我必须创业'、'我必须成为企业家'、'我必须学习投资'之类的念头。

Like that's really what I'm hearing. And I think if people take those three things away from what we've talked about so far, that's what you want to put your attention to rather than this idea of, oh, I've got to start a business. I've got to become an entrepreneur. I've got to learn how to invest. It's like, no, no, no.

就是这样。本质就在这里。夏末总是带着苦乐参半的滋味。你刚度过自由奔放的美好时光，现在又悄然回归日常。但我其实很享受这个过渡期。

This is it. This is what it is. It's always bittersweet when summer winds down. You've had this beautiful free flowing time, and now there's this subtle pullback into routine. But I actually love this part.

这是个重新调整的机会，而我最喜欢的回归方式就是用Wayfair焕新空间。无论是整理家庭办公室、升级晚餐厨具，还是打造个性化空间，Wayfair应有尽有。我为阅读角添置了舒适的扶手椅和悬浮架，现在这里成了我最爱的放松角落——不仅配送快速无忧，这些单品彻底改变了空间氛围，营造出我需要的宁静温馨感。

It's a chance to reset, and one of the best ways I've found to ease into that rhythm again is refreshing my space with Wayfair. Whether you're organizing your home office, upgrading your cookware for weeknight dinners, or just wanting to make your space feel more you, Wayfair has everything. I found this really cozy armchair and a few floating shelves for my reading corner, And now it's one of my favorite places to unwind. And not only did they arrive fast and hassle free, they've completely changed the vibe of that corner. It's cozy, calming, and exactly what I needed to feel grounded again.

Wayfair提供家具、收纳、寝具、厨房用品等各类商品，最棒的是连大件都免运费。如果想为迎接新季节做准备，现在正是通过Wayfair实现轻松过渡的完美时机，用更少花费实现空间焕新与生活重启。

Wayfair's got furniture, storage, bedding, kitchen essentials, you name it. And the best part? Delivery's free, even on the big stuff. So if you're thinking about how to ease back into the season ahead, this is the perfect time to do it with Wayfair. Get organized, refreshed, and back to routine for way less.

立即访问wayfair.com选购全屋好物。Wayfair——万千风格，点亮每个家。拥有可靠伙伴的支持是最棒的自爱方式。

Head to wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's wayfair.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. Having the right people in your corner to support you is a great form of self care.

就像庆祝你乔迁新居的朋友，为你升职喝彩的伙伴，或陪你散步解忧的知己，State Farm始终为你提供保障支持。无论是房屋、汽车、摩托车、游艇还是房车，他们的保险方案应有尽有。State Farm代理人会守护对你重要的东西，多元承保选项让你轻松找到适合方案，继续庆祝人生每个重要时刻。

Just like the friend who shows up to your housewarming party when you get that dream home, celebrates your big promotion, or goes with you on a walk to clear your mind, State Farm is there to help you feel supported. They have different coverage options, whether it be for your home, car, motorcycle, boat, or even RV. With a State Farm agent, you know someone is there to help protect what's important. And with so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have help finding what fits for you. So you can continue to celebrate all of life's biggest milestones.

登录StateFarm.com或使用获奖APP联系当地代理人。State Farm，如好邻居般随时守候。这个开学季，在亚马逊为孩子精打细算。前几天我和挚友聊天，他有两个孩子，每年都重复同样的剧情。

Go online at State Farm dot com or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This back to school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. I was talking to one of my closest friends the other day. He has two kids, and every year, it's the same routine.

一个孩子非要特定款书包——不仅是蓝色，还得是海军蓝配荧光绿拉链加银河图案。另一个去年开学第一周还没结束就弄丢饭盒。他说：'杰，我发誓他们每长高一英寸，这些东西就变得更贵。'我完全理解。

One kid wants a very specific backpack. I'm talking not just blue, but navy blue with a neon green zipper and a galaxy print. The other lost their lunchbox before the first week of school even ended last year. He's like, Jay, I swear they get more expensive every time they grow an inch. And I get it.

孩子会长大，季节会变迁，不知怎的他们每年总有五样去年不需要的新东西。但有什么可以不变？你在他们身上的花费。记住，凭借亚马逊的低返校季价格，少在孩子身上花钱吧，因为没花在他们身上的每一分钱都是你实实在在省下的。在亚马逊购买返校用品，少在孩子身上花钱。

Kids grow, seasons change, and somehow they always need five new things they didn't need last year. But what doesn't have to change? How much you spend on them. So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them. Shop back to school at Amazon and spend less on your kids.

你说得对。很多人只关注战术，却不重视基础。这个基础就是——你是否相信，对于你花时间最多的事情（仅次于睡觉的工作），你拥有主导权和责任？

You're right. Yeah. Lots of people focus on the tactics. They don't focus on the foundation. The foundation is, do you believe that you have ownership and responsibility for the things you spend more time doing than anything besides sleeping, which is working?

如果你具备我们所说的'主人翁心态'，即那种'我每天投入尊严对待工作，直至开始认可自我价值并理解被重视原因'的人生态度，那么你终将能争取到别人无法剥夺的东西。工作会被拿走，薪水会被取消，但没人能夺走你在企业中的契约所有权。这在当今世界尤为重要——当雇主做出你不认同的事时，你可以直接说'我不干这个'。

And if you have what we call an owner's mindset, so the type of human that's like, I'm I'm putting, like, respect and dignity into what I do every day to the point that I start to value my own worth and I understand why I'm valued, then you will finally be able to negotiate for the only thing that nobody can take from you. Somebody can take a job. Somebody can take a salary. Nobody can take contractual ownership in a business. And I think that's really important in today's world because it really allows you then when somebody that you work for does something you don't like, you just go, yeah, I'm not doing that, you know?

这就形成了我所说的'淑女基金'——因为账户里有这笔钱，我就能在某些事上绝不妥协。主人翁心态其实很罕见。现在年轻人总抱怨'老板差劲''工作糟心''没有晋升空间'，如果能让年轻时的我明白一件事，那就是：试着站在对立面思考——哪种思维方式更能让你致富？

And you become it's what I call my you fund, my ladylike fashion, which is like, hey, I have a certain amount of money and because I have it, I will never compromise on a few things. The owner's mindset is kind of rare, you know? And so I think for young people today, so often, and I was one, it's like my boss is bad, my job sucks, you know, I don't have upward mobility. And if I could tell young Cody one thing differently, it would be like, what would the opposite side of that story say? And which one do you think would make you more money?

答案显然是'这一切尽在掌控，只要做出重大改变，我肯定能比现在更富有'。真希望更多人能这么想。

And it'd be like, probably the one in which you're like, hey, this is all kind of in my control. And if I make some serious changes in my life, I bet I could be richer than I am today. And I wish more people thought that way.

确实。该怎么和老板谈这个呢？

Yeah. How do you have that conversation with your boss?

记得有次参加女性理财活动，现场都是些阔太太。主持人让全场闭眼，说'现在没人看得到'。

I remember once I was at an event, and I was just listening in the crowd, and it was actually a finance event for women. So it was a bunch of, like, kind of well off ladies. And we were in the audience, and the the person in front asked everybody to close their eyes. So we all closed their eyes. And then they said, nobody's looking.

要我们用身体动作表现对金钱的感受。我当时觉得这群嬉皮士真奇怪，就敷衍地摊手想着'钱嘛，多多益善'。

I want you to have your body have a physical representation of what you feel when you think of money. So I was like, this is weird hippies. Like, what are we doing? So I was like, I don't know, you know, and you can't see me, but like I was like throwing up my hands and like, okay, money. I like it.

就像内心独白：'快给我，别停'这样。

Like, give it to me. Keep it going. You know, these are like my internal monologues. Right?

太棒了。

That's awesome.

是啊。比如，我会拿一些。所以我放松下来。我是这样的状态。我想，没人注意我。

Yeah. Like, I'll I'll take some. And so I'm chilling. I'm like this. I'm like, nobody's looking.

然后他们说，现在别动，但睁开眼睛。当我往外看时，我惊呼，哇。因为其他观众——不是全部，大约80%——都是这样的姿势。他们紧紧抱着胸口。有点像双臂微缩在两侧。

And then they're like, now don't move, but open your eyes. When I looked out, I was like, woah. Because the rest of the audience, not the rest, but let's call it 80%, were like this. They were like they were tight to the chest. They were like kind of like maybe small arms to the side.

有些情况下，我觉得他们看起来像被击中了。像是受到了伤害。这让我觉得非常有趣。接着他们让我们抖落这种状态。我当时想，天啊，如果你们身体对金钱的感知是封闭的，你知道，带着恐惧之类的感觉...

In some instances, I was like, it looked like they had been hit. They had been harmed. And and I thought that was so fascinating. And then they let us shake it off. And I was like, oh, man, if your representation of money that you feel in your body is closed off, you know, kind of scared, whatever, I don't know.

可能就很难赚到钱。所以我觉得从事金融业让我意识到：嘿，如果你们见过那些身家上亿的金融人士，你们会想'我也能做到'。那个家伙都行？真的吗？当你见过足够多这样的人后，就会明白这不像人们说的那么遥不可及。

It might be hard for you to earn it. So I think for some reason, being in finance helps me realize, hey, you guys, if you met some of the guys who were worth a $100,000,000 that I did in finance, you go, I could do that too. Like that guy did it? Really? And so I think once you meet a bunch of those people, you go, oh, like, this isn't this isn't as impossible as people say it is.

我从观察成功者而非质疑'他们怎么可能成功'中学到很多。我会想'哇，那家伙都能做到，我也可以'。这教会我持续前进——他能行，他做到了。就像手臂一次次举起。所以我想告诉人们：每次看到有钱人时，记住我们本质相同。

And so I learn a lot from not seeing people achieve it and going, how could they? How could they? It's instead going, wow, that guy didn't want to think if he could do it, I could do it And that taught me to keep going, okay, he did it, he did it. And it's like arms would raise, arms would raise, arms would raise. And so maybe that's what I would try to tell people is like every time you see somebody that has a lot of money and you see the humanity in them, just remember like we're all kind of the same.

没错。确实如此。

Yeah. Definitely.

但别误会——智力水平、人脉、出身背景都是现实因素。但如果你生活在发达国家，在这个互联网触手可及的时代，你比历史上任何时候都更有机会致富。我只保证一点：如果你认为自己赚不到钱，那就真的赚不到。

And you you can now don't get me wrong. Intelligence levels, network, how you're born, where you're born, real things. But if you're living in a first world country, in today's day and age with the internet and what we have at our fingertips, I think you're in a better position than you've ever been in order to make a lot of money today. And I promise you only one thing, which is you'll make less money if you think you will.

对。我想请你谈谈如何培养这种心态，因为你说得太对了。我认识很多人，包括朋友，看到别人成功时会说'那家伙那么蠢，我闭着眼都能做到'。

Yeah. I wanted you to talk about the difference between what you just said and how we cultivate that mindset because you're so right. I know a lot of people, a lot of friends as well, they'll look at someone who's doing well for themselves. They'll be like, that guy's so dumb. Like I could do that.

他们用居高临下的语气，而不是想着'他能做到，太棒了，我也有这个能力'。

I could do that with my eyes closed, but it's actually in a condescending way to that person rather than like, that guy can do it. Oh, great. Okay. Well, I've got this skill. Can do it.

这种心态转变是什么？因为我们擅长评判别人。但往往要么陷入嫉妒，而不是去学习他们。我们嫉妒而非研究成功者。

You know, and so what is that mindset shift? Because I think we're good at looking at other people. Yeah. But often we either fall prey to being envious instead of studious of them. Like instead of studying them, we envy them.

否则我们最终会居高临下地看待他们，比如‘哦，他其实没那么聪明’或‘他们其实没那么厉害，对吧？’我们会这样为自己开脱。那么该如何转变这种心态？因为我认为这正是你所说的核心问题。

Or we end up being condescending of them of like, oh, well, you know, he's not even that smart or they're not even, it's not even that great, right? We kind of justify that. So how do you shift that? Because I think that's at the core of what you're saying.

是啊。别误会，我也经常陷入这些思维陷阱。直到今天我还会玩比较游戏——他们居然在做那个？

Yeah. And don't get me wrong. I fall prey to all of these things too. I still, to this day, play the game of comparison. Like, they're doing that?

难道我就不行吗？拜托团队，我们的方向在哪里？明白吗？我也这样。

Couldn't I? Come on, team. Where are we going? You know? I do it too.

我也是。真希望自己能改掉这个毛病。但我坚信财富青睐好奇心。如果非要记住什么，那就是金钱总会被持续提问的人类吸引。

Me too. Yeah. And I wish I didn't, but I still do. But I do think cash loves curiosity. If you remember anything else, it's that money is really attracted to the type of human that keeps asking questions.

赚钱往往不需要知道答案，关键在于提出正确问题。所以我训练自己——每次见到有钱人或结识富豪时，我只坚持做一件事：能否持续向他们提问？有趣的是，前几天我和我们共同的朋友杰西·艾茨勒聊天...

You don't actually have to know the answers often to make money. You need to ask the right questions. So I kind of trained myself every time I saw somebody with money or I got to know somebody with money. I didn't need to know anything else besides, can I just ask them a lot of questions continuously? And it was funny because I was talking to, I think, another mutual friend of ours, Jesse Eitzler, the other day.

杰西说他常去某家酒店，就在大堂或午餐时不断提问。那时他住得简陋，身无分文。但遇到看似富有或有趣的人就会主动提问。互联网时代我们常误以为提问不再重要，总想着上网找答案。

And Jesse talks about how he used to go to a a hotel here, and he would just ask questions in the lobby or at the lunch table. He was like living not in a nice place. He had no cash whatsoever. But when he saw people that he thought looked rich or interesting, he would just ask them questions. And I think with the Internet sometimes, we think that questions don't matter anymore, and we go to the Internet to get answers.

其实建立人际连接并保持好奇，对方反而会给予更多。我年轻时玩过个游戏：暗中收集

And if instead you can make a human connection and get curious about them, they'll give things to you. And so one of my I played a game when I was really young, which is I kind of started collecting mentors who never knew they were my mentor. I think this is a really clever thing to do. And I remember one in particular, Bob Kendall. And BK is what we call him.

他当时在高盛还是瑞信担任高管（记不清具体哪家）。我们地位悬殊——我是实习生，他却是大人物。但获得几次接触机会后，我只问简单问题：'您刚接管这个业务领域，为什么选择这里而不是热门领域？'

He was super high up at I don't know if it was Goldman or Credit Suisse at the time, one of one of the companies. And he was so, like, out of my range. Like, you know, when somebody else is in a company and I was basically the intern and he was the big dog. But I got a couple chances to interact with him, and I would just ask him questions, like very simple ones, oh, you just took over this area of the business. Like, why what did you see there as opposed to this other area where a lot of people are going?

我只是保持好奇。然后做了一件最能积累导师关系的事：获取联系方式后从不索取，只说'您之前的建议我用这种方式实践了，非常感谢'。

I would just kind of be curious. And then I would do a thing that I think probably helped me make more mentors than anything else, which is I would get their contact information. I would never ask them for anything. I would largely just say, hey, that piece of advice that you gave me the other day, that was really useful and I applied it this way. Thank you for doing that.

或者发现他发表的研究论文时，我会标注精彩段落发给他致谢。这样反复几次后，才会提一个问题：'我正在考虑市场营销或销售方向，该如何抉择职业路径？'

Or I'd see if his name was written somewhere. He had done a research paper or something. I might send it to him like with a couple highlighted things like these lines were incredible. Thank you for doing that. Then after I had done that a few times, I might give them one question like, hey, you know, I'm thinking about going into marketing or sales, and I'm trying to figure out how do you decide which career path is more interesting to you.

你是只有一句话想说，还是有一本特别想读的书，比如非常短的那种？我记得多年后和BK坐下来聊天时，他说，知道关于你的趣事吗？我反问什么呀？他接着说，你莫名其妙让我成了你的导师，却从没开口要求过。

Do you have just like a one sentence about it, or do you have one book that you'd like to read, like really short? And I remember I sat down with BK years later, and he was like, you know, a funny thing about you? And I was like, oh, what? You know? And he was like, you, like, somehow made me your mentor, but you never asked.

后来我开始关心你的事业发展，这完全不在我计划内，很有点阿斯伯格金融人士的作风。他问我是不是故意的，我说当时年轻自己也搞不清楚，或许吧。

And then I started caring about what happened to your career, I kind of never meant to, which is like a very Asperger's y finance thing to do. And he's like, Did you do that on purpose? And I was like, you know, I don't know. I was young then, so I don't know. But maybe.

那种微妙的传递——'我有建议，对方真的采纳并持续运用，不向我索取任何回报，还给我正向反馈说改变了他们生活'——这种体验实在太罕见了。

That tiny transfer of, Hey, I have advice and somebody actually takes it, uses it continuously, wants nothing from me for it, and then gives me a positive feedback loop that I'm making change on their life is so rare.

太聪明了！简直是天才。这应该是我听过最棒的导师建议。因为我们大多数人想找导师时，第一个错误就是直接开口请求对方'当我的...'

So smart. Right? That's genius. That's actually the best mentorship advice I think I've ever heard. Because I think so many of us, when we want someone to be our mentor, the first mistake is we ask them to be our Oh,

千万别那样。听到这种请求我内心简直要窒息，感觉像是被强加了天大的责任。

don't do that. That also makes me die on the inside. If somebody asks me that, I'm like, that's such a huge responsibility.

万一你搞砸了呢？确实。我也不想...或者万一我没时间？万一无法及时回复？这是人的本能反应。

What if you up? Exactly. I don't want Or what if I don't have time? What if I can't respond? Like that's the natural reaction.

我也是如此，我的导师从来都不知道自己是导师，这是唯一可行的方法。但你关于'如何请教'的建议让我耳目一新——第二个常见错误就是在长篇人生故事后附上一个宏大的哲学问题。

Same with me, I've always had mentors that don't know they're my mentors, it's the only way. But what I love about your advice, which I've never ever heard before, is also how you asked for advice. I think the second mistake, so the first mistake we say is, you be my mentor? Yeah. The second mistake we make is we send a whole life story with one like really big profound question.

比如'我经历过A，做过B，辍学后做了C，现在面临D，该如何找到人生意义？'对方根本不知道如何用算法处理这么庞大的信息，给出真正有用的深刻答案，最后很可能已读不回。就算回复也是敷衍了事，然后请教者还会因对方不重视自己的故事而心生怨怼。

So it's like, I went from this, then I did this, then I dropped out, then I did this, then I did this. How do I discover my purpose? And like the person on the other side has no idea how to compute all of that algorithmically and give you a really profound answer back that they genuinely believe will help you, which means they probably won't respond. Or if they do respond, it'll be extremely short. And then you'll feel disgruntled and upset that they didn't value your whole life story.

最终关系就淡了。而你的方法堪称完美：把对方著作的摘录发过去，附上简短的疑问和见解。就像你说的，这样对方反而会主动关注你的人生。科迪，这真是绝妙的建议，我是真心实意地感谢。

And then now you probably lose touch. Whereas your advice was just so perfect because the idea that you were sending them their own work with a couple of highlights, one sentence question, one piece of insight, and then that person, like you said, becomes invested in your life. That is such great advice, Cody. I really Thank you. Really mean that.

这是我听过最高明的导师关系建议。

I've never heard mentorship advice better than

那个方法对我很有效。还有另一条建议我觉得很有用，就是我从不直接找最高层的人。比如，我绝不会去找高盛的总裁劳埃德·布兰克费恩，对他说‘劳埃德，事情是这样的，跟我聊聊吧’。

that. Think it worked for me. And I also think the other piece of advice that was useful, I never went for like the top dog. Yeah. You know, I would never go to the president of Goldman, Lloyd Blankfeit back in the day and be like, Lloyd, the thing is, talk to me.

‘能给我你的邮箱吗？’当然不会。我会去找比我舒适圈高出一两级的人。明白吗？这样我还能接触到对方。

Can I have your email? Of course not. I would go to, like, one or two levels past what was comfortable for me. Right? So it was like, I could still get to the person.

对。然后你可以把它当作跳板。最后我想说，我完全不同意现在很多知名人士给的建议，比如一旦你超越了某些人，就把他们抛在身后。很多人会说‘他们曾是我的导师，但我已经超越所有导师了’。

Yes. And then you can use it as like a a leapfrog. And the last thing I'll say is I totally disagree with the advice today that a lot of like kind of well known people give, which is once you outgrow people, leave them behind you. You know? And a lot of people say like, well, they were my mentor, but I've superseded all my mentors.

哦不。天啊。

Oh no. Oh.

是啊。我经常在商界听到这种说法，比如‘你是身边五个人的平均水平，所以要确保他们都很优秀’。话虽如此，但也别忘了你是怎么走到今天的。因为 mentorship（指导关系）是有多层意义的。

Yeah. And I hear that often from like the business community, you know? It's like you're the average of the five people you surround yourself with, so make sure they're awesome. It's like, yeah, but also don't forget how you got there. Because you never know mentorship has like multi layers to it.

你不仅可以接受来自上层的指导，也可以从下层获得。比如刚才你的团队就在教我们如何避免说话像老古板，对吧？再比如彼得·蒂尔——无论你是否喜欢他——这个超级富豪投资了马克·扎克伯格，后来马克的财富超过了彼得。

You can get mentored from above, but also below. I mean, your team was teaching us beforehand how to not sound like boomers, right? So like there's that. You know, you can also have somebody that's a hire that like for instance, I think a lot about the idea that, like, Peter Thiel, whether you like him or not, really rich guy, gives money to Mark Zuckerberg, right? Whether you like him or not, Mark Zuckerberg then goes to become richer than Peter Thiel.

难道彼得会因为马克比他更有钱而生气吗？我深表怀疑，因为马克让彼得赚得盆满钵满。曾经彼得高高在上，马克默默无闻，如今局面完全反转。这难道不酷吗？你曾帮助过的、原本不如你的人，现在超越了你。

Now is Peter mad because Mark made more money than him? I highly doubt it because Mark made Peter a ton of money. And at one point, you know, the imbalance was Peter was way up here and Mark was down here, and now it's probably flipped. And how cool is that? That, like, somebody who used to be sort of below you, you've helped in some way get above you.

没错。然后你还能获得反向的价值传递。所以关于 mentorship，我想补充的建议是：即使你已经超越了某些人，也要珍惜并保持与他们的联系。

Yeah. And then you get to like value transfer the other way. So I will say like, maybe if I gave one other piece of advice on mentorship, it would be collect and keep with you the people even after you've superseded them.

说得太棒了。

That's beautiful.

对吧？而且试着成为他们最好的 mentor（导师）。不，应该说 mentee（学员）。

You know? Yeah. And and try to be their best mentor. Absolutely. Like, I mean, mentee.

我一直试图让他们能以我为傲。是的，无论你教我什么，我都想成为最优秀的门生，让他们能炫耀说‘看，我多厉害才能教出这样的学生’。没错，而且我想把全部功劳都归给他们。

I always try to, like, have them I want them to be able to brag about me. Yeah. Like, no matter what you teach me, I wanna be the best mentee to the point that they're like, hey, look how smart I am because of that. Yes. And I wanna give them all the credit on it.

是的。当你做到这点时，他们还会把你引荐给他们那些真正成功的朋友。所以这是双赢。

Yeah. And when you do that, then they introduce you to their really successful friends too. So it's a twofer.

绝对赞同。我想补充你之前说的，关于必须践行建议这点。我觉得现在人们总是索取建议，总在寻找答案，但优秀门生的标准是采纳建议、付诸行动，然后汇报结果说‘嘿，我按你说的做了’——就像你刚才提到的。

Yeah, definitely. And I wanna add what you were saying earlier as well, this idea of you have to act on the advice. And I think there's a lot of requesting of advice. There's a lot of looking for answers, but being a great mentee is taking the advice, putting it into action and then reporting the result and saying, hey, I took your advice. This is as you were saying.

我认为这正是传统师徒关系与当下TikTok、Instagram时代的本质区别。现在到处都是建议，我们却很少有机会消化、实践并反馈。我特别欣赏你关于感恩的观点——记得多年前我实习时，公司挂着创始人照片，有人却说‘谁在乎这些老家伙’。

And I think that's so core to what was different about mentorship where like you're saying now in this TikTok, Instagram world, I think there's just so much advice everywhere that we're not really getting the opportunity to digest it, put it into practice and then report on it as well. And I love your idea of gratitude. I mean, I remember when I joined a company as an intern years ago and I was only there for like a summer internship, but they put up the pictures of the founders of the company. And then they were like, yeah, but we don't care about them. They're old guys anyway.

当时我就震惊于这种忘恩负义——没有他们就没有我们的今天。尽管他们已故去多年，但我完全同意你的观点：人生起伏难料。即便你物质上超越年长的导师，他们精神层面的智慧永远值得汲取。我二十多岁时遇到的导师们，至今仍在指引我。

And I remember realizing like, I was just like, wow, that's really ungrateful because none of us would be here right now if it wasn't for them. And yes, they're not alive anymore. And yes, that was a long time ago, But I fully agree with you that and also you just don't know when you're on the way up, when you're on the way down. Your mentors generally, if they're older than you in the beginning, even if you become more successful than them materially, I believe they have so much more spiritual wisdom to give you over time. Like I've got mentors, same way who helped me out when I was in my late 20s.

比如现在他们谈论为人父的感受——虽然我还没当爸爸，但他的孩子们都二十多岁了，父子关系融洽。这种人生经验层面的指导，远超出财务范畴，涉及情感、心理等多维度的成长。

And today they're so much more helpful when they talk to me about what it feels like being a dad. Like I'm not a dad right now, but he's been a dad and his kids are in their mid 20s and he has a great relationship with them. I'm like, I'm not there at that level. So mentorship also takes across not just financial, but relationships, you know, emotionally, mentally, there's so many other areas. Oh yeah.

所以抛弃导师是极其糟糕的建议。

So leaving someone behind is terrible advice. Yeah. I

我同意。除非对方消极有害——虽然我仍非常推崇亚瑟·布鲁克斯这样的人。记得还没和他成为朋友时，有次在纽约，他问我‘网上有人攻击你吗？这种事你遇到过吗？’

agree. And, know, it's one thing if somebody's negative or they're unhelpful, which I still believe very much so, like Arthur Brooks, who I just think so highly of. And I remember back before I knew him as a friend and I was just a fan. Last time I was in New York with him, he I was having like, you know, when somebody's mean to you online? Does that ever happen to you?

应该偶尔有吧。

Probably sometimes.

经常遇到。

All the time.

当然。但有个人特别刻薄？我不知道为什么。这话莫名刺痛了我，让我很困扰。

Of course. But there was one person that was like, really mean? And I don't know why. It got to me somehow. It bothered me.

这是很久以前的事了，我记得当时不知怎么告诉了他。通常只有当我感觉批评中带点真实时才会被困扰。比如他们精准戳中我的冒名顶替综合征，或者质疑'她真有自以为的那么聪明吗'这类我自己也担心的事。一旦被说中，我就会想：糟了，这下得认真对待了。

And, you know, this was a while ago, and I remember telling him for some reason. And often it only bothers me if I feel like there's a kernel of truth to it. So if they like really nail my impostor syndrome or they really nail like, you know, is she as smart as she thinks she like something that I'm like that I worry about too. If they get that, I'm like, dang it. I'm paying attention now.

这样不好。但我记得对他说：我就是很在意，想做点什么。他反问：你会听我的吗？我说：也许吧，你要建议我怎么做？

That's not good. But I remember I said to him like, you know, I'm just bothered and I wanna do something about it. And he was like, are you gonna listen to me? And I was like, maybe. What are we what are you gonna tell me to do?

他说：我要你想象这个人获得全世界的成功。你要真心祝福他，直到这种祝福变得有点荒诞。而且要真正感受到。重申下，我本不是情感泛滥的人，我更习惯用数据思考。

And he's like, I want you to picture this guy having all the success in the world. I want you to wish him so much well, it becomes like a bit bizarre. And I want you to actually feel it. And again, I'm not that touchy feely. I'm pretty spreadsheet y.

所以他这么说时，我心想：行吧，但觉得不会有啥效果。他是个古怪的聪明人。总之我照做了，在纽约街头边走边认真思考：好吧，我确实该祝福这家伙——毕竟如果一个人整天在网上憎恨别人，他内心肯定很可悲。

So when he told me that, I'm like, fine. But like, I don't think there's gonna be an outcome here like that. And he's a wonky, very smart guy. So it's not anyway, so I did it and I like really thought about it. I was like walking in New York and I like, you know what?

我开始共情他的处境。结果不到两周，这人居然公开道歉还给我发了长篇私信。我丈夫记仇，还想报复，但我却说：这给我上了深刻的一课。

I do wish this guy well because I bet it is sad if you are like if you're in a place where all you're doing is hating on somebody online all the time, I bet you are kind of sad. So I started, like, empathizing with him and thinking about it. Anyway, not two weeks later, the guy does a public apology for like and and does this long DM to me. You know, my husband has like a long memory, so he's like, no. You know, let's get that guy.

也许不是每次都这么奏效，也许他们之后依旧刻薄。但我认为有时从反对者身上学到的，不比从导师那里少。所以不要低估——不是说'没人恨你就代表你没作为'那种老生常谈。

But I was like, I just learned such a lesson. And maybe it doesn't always work like that, and maybe they're still mean to you later. But I really think sometimes you learn just as much from your haters as you do from your mentors. And so don't underestimate not only the same where we kind of get all hot and bothered, like, you know, if you don't got hate, you're not doing anything. Maybe.

更重要的是：当别人质疑你时产生的感受，能让你学到很多。我认为这同样珍贵。如果没有那些让我想证明他们错得离谱的反对者，也不会有今天的我。

But also, wow, you can learn a lot from the type of feelings you get when people doubt you. And I think that's just as important. And I wouldn't be where I was today if I didn't have some big haters that I felt like I needed to prove wrong.

说得好。我想深入探讨这本书的核心——它最独特之处在于前所未闻地讨论收购普通企业。这是你工作的精髓，也是你改变人们所有权观念的方式。我记得你有个1100万播放的视频讲自动售货机生意，你还见过哪些另类的赚钱生意？

Yeah, well said. I wanna dive into the heart of this book because what made it so unique for me is I don't think I've ever heard anyone really talk about buying ordinary businesses. And that's the crux of so much of your work and why it's different and how you're getting people to think differently about ownership. You had this video that I remember watching that got like 11,000,000 views talking about this vending machine business. Like what are some of the unusual businesses you've seen people make money from?

因为这呼应了我们之前的讨论：人们总追逐光鲜亮丽的赚钱方式，但多数人其实通过非常不起眼的行当致富。自动售货机就是典型例子，能分享些你发现的最另类赚钱生意吗？

Because I think it goes back to what we were speaking about earlier. We're all after this sexy, shiny money and most people are making loads of money through really unsexy random things. Vending machines being a case in point. Walk us through some of the most unusual businesses you've discovered people making money.

是的，我们开始吧。首先要认识到，网络上那些光鲜亮丽的人大多其实赚不了多少钱。事实上，很多名人根本赚不到钱。你在这个行业里应该深有体会。

Yes. Let's do it. And also realize first, like, most of the people who are really shiny on the Internet don't actually make much money. In fact, a lot of celebrities make no money. And you know this all too well-being here.

表面风光的事情很多，但真正赚钱其实很难。你认识的最有钱的人可能开的是园林绿化或喷灌设备公司。我家就是这样——我小时候曾在一个阿姨的公司实习，她是我哥哥朋友的妈妈，当时觉得她家富可敌国，后来发现财富来自一家设备租赁公司。就靠一个点子，那个人身价接近五千万美元。

There's a lot of show and it's actually quite hard to make money in the shiny things. The richest guy you know probably started a landscaping or sprinkler head company. In fact, that was the case for my family. When I was growing up, I interned for a woman who was my brother's friend's mom and they were worth what I thought was a bajillion dollars back then and it was from an equipment rental company. So this guy was worth somewhere near $50,000,000 from one idea.

我买些园林设备、拖拉机之类的，但我不卖它们，也不倒卖。我发现建筑公司只需要短期使用这些设备，于是改为出租。这个人能在九十天内收回一台设备的成本。与其赚取买卖差价，他每九十天就能赚回整台设备的钱。当年看到这个模式时我就想：原来做什么都能赚钱。

I buy some like landscaping equipment, some tractors, etcetera, and not I don't sell them. I don't flip them, but I realized that construction companies only wanna use them part time, so I actually rent them out. And so this guy would make the cost of a piece of equipment back inside of ninety days. And so instead of getting whatever difference is between him buying the equipment and selling it for a little bit more, he would make the entire purchase price over every ninety day cycle. And I remember, like, thinking back in the day when I saw that, you can make money doing anything.

事实上，越不起眼的领域反而更容易赚钱，因为竞争少——虽然听起来很无聊。

And in fact, you probably make it more often in the things that nobody thinks about because you have less competition because it also sounds really boring.

而且

And

像扎克伯格那样的天才根本看不上设备租赁。但像我这种有点小聪明但不算绝顶聪明的人，反而能靠这个赚大钱。我痴迷三种生意，统称为'主街生意'——如果财富其实藏在日常社区商业里呢？

you know, the Mark Zuckerbergs and brilliant minds of the world, they don't want to mess around with equipment rental. But people like me who are maybe like kind of smart but not that smart could make a lot of money doing it. And so there are three types of businesses that I obsess about. I call them overarchingly main street businesses. So the idea is basically, what if all the money is actually made in community businesses that we use every single day?

屋顶维修公司、外包播客剪辑的公司、街角修鞋店...这些能经营三十年的生意，既不是靠烧钱，也不是靠风投，而是真正盈利的——这很难得。我把它们分为三类：第一类是'入门级生意'，比如自动售货机。

Your roofing company, your podcast production company you send outsourced editing clips to, you know, the cobbler that actually cleans up shoes on the corner store. All of these businesses, when you see that they've been in business for thirty years, it's not because they were making money and they are because they were losing money and it's not because they got venture capital, because they didn't. So these things actually are profitable, which is kind of rare. So Main Street businesses and then underneath it, I call them three different types. The first one is the gateway drug business, which basically I use that as a little bit of a joke, but it's like a vending machine.

谁都懂售货机原理：买机器、收钱、补货。操作简单，不需要雇很多人。

Well, everybody understands how a vending machine works. Right? You get the machine, you take the cash out, you input the things. It's a straightforward business. It doesn't need a lot of people.

我觉得这是年轻人创业的好起点，能学习商业规则。类似的还有'轻人力生意'，比如自助洗衣店——某种程度上就是个放大版售货机，投币洗衣，也不需要太多员工。

And I think it's a great place for like young people to start because you learn the game of business. A similar one might be what I call a people light business, which might be like a laundromat. So a laundromat is like, in some ways, a slightly bigger vending machine. Right? You put clothes in, the clothes get washed, you take the clothes out, you put coins in and return.

对吧？这类生意人力成本低，规模可控。总结起来就是：入门级生意、轻人力生意，最后是传统行业或者说'无聊生意'。

Right? And that doesn't have a lot of employees and they're not super, super expensive on the scale of it. And so you go, okay, we got gateway drug businesses. We've got people light businesses. And then finally, we get into what I call the trades businesses overall or boring businesses.

这些产业包括我们旗下名为Resy Brands的公司，它拥有一个叫Pink's的窗户清洁公司、一家屋顶维修公司，以及名为That One Painter的油漆公司。令人惊讶的是，杰伊，如果你现在查看福布斯全球富豪榜前100名，看看他们的财富来源，你会发现他们并非名人。他们不靠唱歌，也不做YouTube。我们甚至无法企及他们所拥有的财富规模。

And these are things like we own a company called Resy Brands that has a window cleaning company called Pink's, a roofing company, a painting company called That One Painter. And what's wild is with these businesses, if you were to look right now, Jay, at like the Forbes 100 list of the richest people in the world and you were to see what they made their money from, they're not celebrities. They're not singing songs. They're not doing YouTube. Like, we're not even touching the amount of wealth they have.

他们绝大多数人最大的共同点是什么？金融与商业所有权。而且他们拥有的企业大多是看似乏味的行业。全球最富有的女性是金·卡戴珊吗？不是。

What do most of them have in common more than anything else? Finance and business ownership. And the businesses they own are largely boring businesses. Richest woman in the world, Kim Kardashian? No.

是屋顶建材巨头。确切地说，截至2022年的全球女首富（我们该查查数据是否更新）就是创办大型屋顶公司的女性。真希望有人在我们年轻时告诉我们这些——但你知道谁深谙此道吗？私募股权那帮人。我并非要妖魔化任何人。

Roofing magnet. Literally, the richest woman in the world this was as of 2022, so we we should see if the numbers are updated, but is a woman who started a very large roofing company. And so, you know, I I wish somebody told us this when we were younger because instead, you know who knows this? The private equity guys. And I don't mean to villainize anybody.

我自己也曾在私募基金工作，认识不少业界好人。但归根结底是权力集中化问题：2000年私募机构仅持有美国4%的企业，如今这个数字已达到20%。

I I was in private equity. I know plenty of good people in that industry. But again, centralization of power. Private equity companies in 2000 owned 4% of the companies in The US. Now they own 20%.

几乎每四家美国企业中就有一家属于私募基金。知道他们在疯狂收购什么吗？那些技术工种、服务行业、能稳定创收却看似枯燥的社区服务型企业。我认为这正是我们夺回这些领域的机会。

It's almost one out of every four companies in The US is owned by private equity. You know what they're buying like crazy? The trades, the service businesses, the boring businesses that print money that service our community. And I think this is our chance to take those things back.

你实际上是为人们打开了一扇全新的大门。我甚至从未想过这一点。这完全颠覆了我们被灌输的成功、安全、稳定和富有的传统认知。你在思考这些领域，正如你所说，因此它们的竞争并不激烈。

You're literally opening up a whole new doorway for people. Like I don't think I've ever even thought about it. Like it's so far off from what I think we were all trained to believe would make a successful, safe, stable, wealthy. Like you're thinking about these areas. And therefore, like you said, they're not very competitive.

这些领域的新进入者并不多。当我听你这么说时，我想到的是人们需要具备哪些技能和才能来运营这些业务？他们需要多少行业知识？哪些商业技能是核心且重要的？因为我认为，在我们所处的这个世界里，人们常犯的错误是——有人会说‘我完全认同Cody的观点’。

There's not a lot of new entrants in there. When I hear you say that, the thing that comes to my mind is what skills and talents do people need to be able to run those businesses? How much industry knowledge do they need? What business skills are core and important? Because I think the mistake is again with the kind of world we live in right now, it's someone goes, I love what Cody's saying.

我明白了，我要去买自动售货机。结果突然之间，车库里堆了20台机器却不知所措，因为你根本不懂商业。那么运营这类业务需要哪些核心商业技能？我们应该培养什么能力？又需要掌握多少行业知识？

I get it. I'm going go buy vending machines. And then of a sudden you've got a garage full of like 20 vending machines and you don't know what to do with them because you don't understand business. So what business core business skills are needed and what should we be developing in order to run any of these businesses? How much industry knowledge do we need?

拥有合适的人支持你是一种极好的自我关怀。就像朋友会来参加你的乔迁派对庆祝梦想之家，为你的升职喝彩，或陪你散步舒缓心情一样，State Farm始终在你身边提供支持。他们提供房屋、汽车、摩托车、船只甚至房车等多样化保险方案。有State Farm代理人在，就有人帮你守护重要事物。丰富的保险选择让你能轻松找到最适合的方案。

Having the right people in your corner to support you is a great form of self care. Just like the friend who shows up to a housewarming party when you get that dream home, celebrates your big promotion, or goes with you on a walk to clear your mind, State Farm is there to help you feel supported. They have different coverage options, whether it be for your home, car, motorcycle, boat, or even RV. With a State Farm agent, you know someone is there to help protect what's important. And with so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have help finding what fits for you.

这样你就能继续庆祝人生所有重要时刻。登录statefarm.com或使用获奖应用，获取当地代理人帮助。State Farm如同好邻居般随时守候。这个开学季，在亚马逊为孩子节省开支。前几天我和一位密友聊天时提到...

So you can continue to celebrate all of life's biggest milestones. Go online at statefarm.com or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This back to school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. I was talking to one of my closest friends the other day.

他有两个孩子，每年都是同样的套路。一个孩子非要指定款书包——不只是蓝色，还得是海军蓝配荧光绿拉链，外加银河图案。另一个去年开学第一周还没结束就把午餐盒弄丢了。他总说，杰伊，我发誓他们每长高一英寸，东西就贵上一截。

He has two kids, and every year, it's the same routine. One kid wants a very specific backpack. I'm talking not just blue, but navy blue with a neon green zipper and a galaxy print. The other lost their lunchbox before the first week of school even ended last year. He's like, Jay, I swear they get more expensive every time they grow an inch.

我懂。孩子会长大，季节会变换，他们总会莫名其妙需要五样去年根本用不着的新东西。但有什么是不必变的？你为他们花的钱。记住，趁着亚马逊开学季低价，少给孩子花钱——因为每少花一块钱，就等于你没花过那一块钱。

And I get it. Kids grow, seasons change, and somehow they always need five new things they didn't need last year. But what doesn't have to change? How much you spend on them. So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them.

来亚马逊选购开学用品，少给孩子花钱。

Shop back to school at Amazon and spend less on your kids.

想活得更好？我们有很多

Want to live better? We got a lot of

功课要做。跟随克里斯·海姆斯沃斯参与国家地理全新Disney+原创系列《无限潜能》。即刻活出更好人生。

work to do. Join Chris Hemsworth in National Geographic's new Disney plus original series. Limitless. Live better now.

我将一头扎进尖端科技领域，揭秘当下活得更好的三大秘诀。

I'm diving head first into cutting edge science to uncover three powerful secrets to living better right now.

第一步，重塑你的大脑。

Step one, rewire your brain.

我基本没有音乐天赋。但最后怎么会和全球顶级流行歌手同台打鼓，面对七万观众？

I basically have no musical talent. So how did I end up playing drums with one of the biggest pop stars in the world in front of 70,000 people?

第二步，拥抱你的痛苦。

Step two, embrace your pain.

来吧，我们出发。

Come on. Let's go.

我们能否通过重新定义痛苦来战胜它？

Can we beat pain by reframing it?

第三步，直面你的恐惧。

Step three, face your fears.

为我们所有人释放这些益处的关键，似乎在于找到舒适区的边缘。

The key to unlocking these benefits for all of us seems to be finding the edge of our comfort zone.

这会很可怕。非常紧张。

It's gonna be scary. It's intense.

我们真正看到的，是通过任何挑战性经历带来的成长。

The growth that occurs through any challenging experience is really what we see.

克里斯·海姆斯沃斯主演的《无限可能：即刻生活更美好》现已在Disney+和Hulu上线。

Chris Hemsworth stars in Limitless, Live Better Now, now streaming on Disney plus and Hulu.

好戏开场了。

It's showtime.

是的。这是个好问题。首先，我认为在收购或发展企业时需要了解两件事。第一是必须学会交易谈判，掌握金钱的语言——这正是我们在书中讨论的内容，在你购买企业之前。所以请不要只听我说就去买企业。

Yeah. It's a great question. Well, first of all, what I would think about is there's two different things we need to know in buying businesses or growing businesses. And the first thing is you've gotta learn how to do deal making and how to actually speak the language of money, which is what we talk about in the book before you buy a business. So please don't just hear me and go buy a business.

先阅读这本书或订阅我们的免费在线通讯，投入足够时间学习。我保证这样你会赚更多钱。有时候人们会想：为什么不用现有的钱直接买企业而非要学习？我会反问：当我们根本不懂却砸钱硬干时，结果能好吗？从来不会。

Read the book or go to our free newsletter online, but spend a decent amount of upfront time learning. I promise you'll make more money that way. You know, I kind of think about sometimes people go, well, why don't I use x amount of dollars I have instead of learning just buying the business? And I go, does that ever work out well where we, don't know what we're doing, but we plow a bunch of money into it because we wanna just go do the thing? It doesn't work out.

所以先花时间学习如何执行。话说回来，我认为发展企业只需掌握三项关键技能：第一是交易谈判，必须懂得如何达成交易；第二则是韧性与耐力的结合。

So spend your time learning how to execute first. Now that said, I really think there's just three key skills that we need to learn to grow a business. The first one is deal making. We gotta understand how to do a deal. The the second one is really a mixture of grit and endurance.

所以这其实不是策略问题，而是我愿意付出多少努力？为了我想要的东西，我愿意牺牲什么？以及我愿意坚持多久？宾夕法尼亚大学的安吉拉·达克沃斯著名地将‘毅力’推广为衡量成功最重要的标准。

So it's actually not tactics. It's how hard am I willing to work? What am I willing to sacrifice for the things that I want? And for how long am I willing to do that? And so Angela Duckworth, famously University of Pennsylvania, popularized grit as the most important thing to measure success.

本质上就是你能承受多少痛苦？如果你能承受大量痛苦，事实证明你赚钱的几率更高。经商其实就是长期承受低强度痛苦的过程。有时你会遭遇所谓的急性痛苦或巨大痛苦突增。但大多数时候，你知道的，经营或创办企业是什么感觉？

So it's basically like how much pain can you tolerate? And if you can tolerate a lot of pain, turns out you have a higher likelihood of making money. Business is really just like elongated periods of low level pain. Sometimes you have like what's called an acute or like a big jump in pain. But for the most part, you know this, it's like, what is running a business or starting a business?

就像你经常查看财务报表，折腾营销推广，属于低强度痛苦。这是第二点。第三点可能有点少见——很多人执着于‘如何做’。

It's like, well, you're looking at your statements pretty much often. You're like messing around with marketing. It's kind like low level pain. And so that's the second point. And the third point is actually maybe a little rare too, which is just a lot of people obsess on how.

比如‘我需要掌握哪些具体技能？如何创业？如何设计税务架构？如何获取首批客户？’这些都是重要且合理的问题。

So what skills do I have to have exactly? How do I start a business? How do I tax structure structure the business? How do I get my first customers? All all important and good questions.

但真正的行家明白不该问‘如何做’，而该问‘找谁做’。我能向哪个已有万小时经验的人偷师？比如现在经商时若遇到‘不懂报税’，我就找专门帮人报税的行家——未必需要付费。

But the real pros know you don't ask how, you ask who. Who can I go to who already has ten thousand hours where I can steal their homework? So now in business, if I go, hey, I don't know how to do our taxes. I go find somebody else who has done taxes for us. It doesn't mean you have to pay for them.

只需主动沟通，对方往往愿意帮忙。所以我先找‘人选’，第三层是‘购买’。真正的富豪遇到问题时，既不想‘怎么解决’，也不问‘谁能解决’。

It just means you have to talk to them and often people will help you. And so I find my who second. And then the third tier is buy. So the the really, really rich, when they have a problem, they don't think how do I fix it? They don't think who can fix it?

他们思考‘如何买下解决方案’？因为若能直接收购相关业务或方案，胜算就大幅提升。最后这点关乎人脉资源。我认为只要理解交易本质，诚实地评估自身付出意愿，并敢于求助，几乎人人都能经营企业。当然，不是谁都能运营亚马逊。

They think how do I buy the solution to my problem? Because if I can buy the business, if I can buy the solution, then it's almost it's a higher guarantee of winning. And so that last one is really about your connections. And so I think if you understand deal making, you you are honest with yourself about how much work you're willing to do one way or the other, and you are willing to ask people for help, I think just about anybody can run a business. Now, can anybody run Amazon?

显然不行。也不是谁都能运作你们那些规模不小的企业。这取决于与层级匹配的技能水平。但我们不会对普通人说‘不是谁都能买套公寓自住’。

No, of course not. Could anybody run your businesses, which are quite big? No, of course not. It's really like the level of skill to the level you're at. But we don't say to people, you know, well, not anybody could buy an individual apartment and live in them.

我们会问‘你想要什么？愿意为此付出怎样的努力？’企业经营亦是如此。我们有个叫‘交易框架’的专业概念，但核心就是德尔斐神谕说的‘认识你自己’。

We ask like, what do you want and how are you willing to work in order to get it? And so I think the same thing with businesses. It's like, okay. We have what's called the deal box, which is a little slightly technical. But basically, the idea is Oracle of Delphi says, know thyself.

对吧？这是最重要的事。商场上你需要明确自己的‘交易框架’：想要X数额的收入吗？希望企业设在洛杉矶吗？

Right? Most important thing we can do. And in business, you basically want to have your little deal box of what you want. So do you want income of x amount? Do you want it to be located in LA?

你是想满足艺术追求还是想赚钱？你大概填一下这个选项框。你清楚自己想要什么。但很多时候，我觉得宇宙其实想帮助我们，只是我们自己都不明确要什么。既然我们无法给出明确方向，它又如何帮到我们呢？

Do you want it to scratch an artistic itch and make you money? And you sort of fill out this box. You know what you want. And then again, you know, the universe, I think, a lot of times wants to help us out, but we don't know what we want. So how is it gonna help us because we can't tell it one way or the other?

商业也是同样的道理。因为我们可能有15种不同的发展方向，比如我们有个叫'九P法则'的概念——就是企业做到九位数规模的九种途径。但我不想限制人们的可能性。

And I think it's the same with business. Yeah. Know, because we could go 15 ways from sideways on like, we have something called the nine p's Mhmm. Which are like the nine ways you scale a business to nine figures. But I don't wanna stop people.

我希望人们从小规模合理起步，要明白阻碍你实现目标的最大障碍，是学习金钱语言的知识、全力以赴的劲头，以及寻求帮助的勇气。具备这三点至少能开始行动。我不希望人们因为缺乏某些领导技能就止步——我相信你们解决问题的能力。

I want them to start small and reasonable and know that the biggest thing in between you and the thing that you want is the knowledge on learning the language of money, on getting after it kind of intensely, and then on asking for help. And, like, if you have those three things, you can at least start. And I don't want people to to stop because they don't have x y z leadership skill. Like, I believe in your ability to figure it out.

确实。而且过程中难免会犯些错误。

Yeah. Yeah. And you might make some mistakes along the way.

几乎肯定会犯错。没错。但关键是别犯致命错误。

Probably will. Exactly. Sure. Yeah. Just don't make mistakes.

我唯一的铁律是：别做可能让你倾家荡产的交易。第一笔交易规模要合理，或者拉别人共同分担风险。比如年轻人没资金该买百万美元企业吗？当然不该。

Like, the only rule that I really have is don't do a deal so big that it can wipe you out. Yeah. Make sure your first deal is reasonable or you help other people bring on risk to level it out. So like, if I'm young and I have no cash, should I go buy a million dollar business? Of course not.

我会怎么做？可能找几个朋友合伙，提议集资收购小生意。就算失败也不至于毁掉我们，虽然会痛但能学到很多。通过分摊风险共同进退。

What would I do? I might go and I might partner with a couple friends, and I might say, hey, do you want to pool our capital together? Let's buy this little business together. If it doesn't work out, it's not going to murder us. It's going to hurt, but we're going to learn a lot and we're to diversify our risk amongst us and we're going do it together.

也可以和父亲合作，或父母的朋友等人脉。别以为创业并购必须单打独斗——私募巨头们都组团，你更没必要独自硬扛。

Or maybe you partner with your dad or maybe you partner with your dad's friends or your mom's friends or whatever. And so don't think that you have to do this game of entrepreneurship and acquisition by yourself. You don't. The big boys in private equity don't, you don't have to either.

怎么找到有意出售企业的人？这应该是我接下来要问的：我都不认识人怎么找？人家经营得好好的凭什么卖给我？

How do you find someone who wants to sell a business? Because, yeah, I feel like that would be my next question of like, how do I even know someone? How do I find someone? Because it must be going great for them. Why would they sell it to me?

尤其当我可能对经营发廊或自动售货机之类毫无经验时。

Especially when I maybe know nothing about owning a hair salon or vending machines or whatever it may be.

没错。你可能已经知道这个了。现在有多少人向你提供生意或生意股份？

Right. Well, you probably already know this. How many people offer you businesses or stakes in businesses now?

是啊，很多。

Yeah. A lot.

我敢打赌。

I bet

非常多。非常多。是的。

a lot. A lot. Yeah.

为什么？因为你拥有非常明显的高价值技能组合。人们可以直接联想到，如果我和杰伊·谢蒂合作，他可能会帮我推销产品。他会给我品牌知名度。有高度的信任，这就是所谓的信任转移。

Why? Because you have a very high value skill stack that's very evident. People can directly attribute if I partnered with Jay Shetty, then he's probably going to market my stuff. He's going to give me brand recognition. There's a high level of trust, so there's what's called a trust transference.

所以你的技能水平越高，就越容易找到生意。事实上，它们往往会主动找上门来。但问题是，即使我们有更高的技能水平，当机会来临时，我们往往不知道该怎么办。我们不知道如何做对我们零风险的交易。所以我喜欢学习交易技巧，即使你有很多技能和很多钱，因为你可以做一笔看似不公平的交易，但因为你认识到自己的价值，这笔交易实际上非常公平。

So the higher level of skill you have, the easier it is for you to find businesses. In fact, they'll often come to you. The thing is though, even when we have a higher level of skill, we often don't really know what to do when it comes to us. We don't know how to do zero risk deals to us. And so I like learning deal making even if you have a ton of skills and a ton of money because you can do a deal that seems unfair, but because you recognize your value, the deal is incredibly fair.

事实上，你越富有，拥有的观众越多，钱越多（我称之为资本），你的编码能力越强（比如像杰夫·贝索斯那样的技术工程能力），或者你能接触到的劳动力（员工或愿意与你合作的人）越多，你就能做更好的交易。

In fact, the richer you are and the more audience you have, money you have, which I call capital, the more coding ability you have, aka like tech Jeff Bezos engineering capability or labor you have access to, so employees or people that will work with you, the better deals you can do.

是啊。

Yeah.

这就像是202、303级别的东西。任何正在听的人，如果你真的有钱和资本，却不考虑做交易和学习它，那你就是疯了，因为这是终极的正向杠杆形式。所以我希望我们能早点学到这一点。顺便说一句，很多名人就是这样被坑的。他们被坑是因为他们做了一笔交易。

And that's like the two zero two, three zero three level. And anybody who is listening who actually has access to money and capital, you are crazy if you're not thinking about doing deals and learning it because it is the ultimate positive form of leverage. So I wish that we learned this earlier. This is how so many celebrities get screwed, by the way. And, you know, they get screwed because they do a deal.

他们不理解自己签的条款。他们的经纪人理解他们签的条款。但经纪人的长期利益并不真正与他们一致，所以他们最终被坑了。比如，我看那部关于瓦尔·基尔默的纪录片时，心都碎了。

They don't understand the terms they signed. Their agent understands the terms they signed. Their agent isn't actually incentive aligned with them long term, and so they end up getting screwed. Like, it broke my heart when I watched that documentary with Val Kilmer.

我还没看过。

I haven't seen it.

天啊。首先，我超爱这部纪录片。它美极了。他包揽了编剧、制片、导演和主演。这简直就是一件精美的艺术品。

Oh, god. Well, first of all, would love it. It's The documentary is beautiful. He wrote it, produced it, directed it, and starred in it. And it's just a beautiful piece of art.

但与此同时，他失去了一切。我是说，他现在基本上身无分文。

But also, he lost everything. I mean, he has basically no money now.

不会吧。

No way.

嗯哼。原因在于他做了一系列交易，钱都让别人赚走了，自己却没捞着。哇哦。所以即便你腰缠万贯，也必须谨慎规划财务结构才能守住财富。你越成功，就越容易成为众矢之的。

Uh-huh. And the reason why is because of a series of deals that he did where other people made it and he didn't. Wow. And so even if you have a ton of money, you gotta be really careful about how you structure things in order to keep it. And the bigger that you get, the bigger target you have.

嗯。因此这事必须重视。就像俄罗斯谚语说的'信任但要核实'——其实相当于谁也别信。抱歉，应该说信任所有人，但要核实他们是否真为你着想。所以就像亚历克·鲍德温说的：'除非在虚线处签名，否则都不算数'。

Mhmm. And so it's important to think about that. And like the Russian proverb, trust but verify, which is like trust nobody. Or I'm sorry. Trust everybody, but verify that they are actually on your best terms, which is why it always doesn't count unless you've signed on the line that is dotted, in the words of Alec Baldwin.

如果你没有巨额名声或财富，像普通人那样接不到交易邀约，最简单的办法就是主动寻找交易。这叫做'项目发掘'和私募股权。私募股权公司会到处cold call小企业，比如给中西部各地的管道公司打电话问'考虑出售吗？'我自己就经常收到这种电话，因为我名下有些产业。

So if you don't have deals coming at you because you don't have massive, you know, fame or money or whatever like a normal person, then the easiest way is to find deals. It's called origination and private equity. So in private equity, if you think about what they do, they go around and they cold call small businesses. So they literally will cold call a plumbing company up all over the Midwest and ask like, hey, you guys want to sell? Or I get them all the time because I own these.

比如我们的园艺公司就会收到收购邀约。第一种寻找交易的方式叫'场外交易搜寻'。你要激活我称之为'网状激活系统'的大脑机制——这套从非洲草原时期进化来的系统会通过重复强化来提醒你'这事很重要，不注意可能会死'。现实中当你足够深入商业游戏后，比如走进别人的播客工作室时（假设你痴迷播客），你会不自觉开始评判'这个设备摆放方式有意思...但换我不会这么做...这个设计可以抄袭'对吧？

So our small businesses, hey, can we buy your landscaping company? So one, one way you find deals is called off market deal searching. So you basically turn on what I call your reticular activating system, which is basically just a system inside of your brain that is trained from the African savannah to say, if I keep repeating this thing, brain, it means it's important and I might die if I don't pay attention to it. And so in real life, what happens to you is once you play the game of business enough, then once you like deals like, have you ever gone into somebody else's podcast studio and because you probably are obsessed with podcasting, you walk in and you're like, that's an interesting way to do that setup. Sure.

嗯哼。你的网状激活系统对播客如此敏感，以至于会本能地注意到所有可改进或值得借鉴的细节。商业交易也是同理。现在我去便利店、餐厅——特别是健身房不知为何总触发我——都会自动开始分析商业模式。

I don't think I would do that. Oh, I like that they did that. Let's steal that. Right? Mhmm.

（叹气）

Your reticular activating system is so turned on to podcasts that you can't help but notice all around you things you would do differently or that you like. The same thing happens with business and deals. So now when I go into like a corner store or when I go into a restaurant, I go, Ugh. Or gym. Gyms get me for some reason.

就像你拥有了我。你有我的信用卡，你有持续的收入。我每天都来这里。多卖点东西给我。

It's like you have me. You have my credit card. You have recurring revenue. I come in here every single day. Sell me more shit.

为什么不向我推销更多东西？你绝对应该这么做。所以我要说，当你学习交易技巧时，关于如何成为更好的交易者，我只能向你保证一件事：你的网状激活系统会启动。在寻找交易时会发生什么？是的，你可以像私募股权那样打陌生电话，但不如让自己沉浸在你所寻找的交易类型中。

Why don't you sell me more things? You definitely should. And so one, I will say, as you learn deal making, I can promise you only really one thing when it comes to you becoming a better deal maker. Your reticular activating system comes on. What's going to happen in deal finding, yes, you could cold call just like private equity, but instead kind of steep yourself in the type of deal you are looking for.

让自己沉浸在你实际拥有的技能中，然后你会到处看到它们。你无法关闭这种感知。就像你买了一辆车后，突然发现到处都是这款车。你会想，难道大家都在买？是不是在促销？

Steep yourself in what skills you actually have, and then you're going to see them all around. You won't be able to turn it off. It'll be like when you buy a car, all of a sudden the car is all over the place after you bought it. You're like, did everybody? Was it a was it a sale?

不是的。是你的大脑开始让你注意到它。所以寻找交易的最佳方式就是开始与人交谈，因为现金青睐好奇心。每次你走进一家小企业，你都会感叹'太棒了'。我是说，洛杉矶到处都是这样的机会。

No. Your brain starts making you notice it. And so the best way to find deals is you start just having conversations with guys because again, cash loves curiosity. Every time you go into a small business, you just go like, oh, amazing. You go I mean, LA is full of them.

你走进一家很酷的零售店。'哇，真不错，哥们。这是你的店吗？'哦，真的是？大概有50%的概率确实是他们的。

You walk into a cool retail shop. Oh, that's cool, man. This is your store? Oh, it is? I mean, probably 50% of the time it's theirs.

然后你对店主说：'做这行多久了？有一阵子了吧？还想继续做吗？生意怎么样？你们赚得多吗？'

And then you say to the guy, like, how long have been doing this? A while. Do you want to keep doing this? Like, how's business going? You guys make a lot of money?

'开店多久了？有孩子要接手吗？打算继续经营吗？哦，这太酷了。我超喜欢这个。'

How long have you been around? Is a kid going to take over? Are you going to keep going? Oh, this is so cool. I love this.

也许我会买点小东西。然后可能决定想和他们一起经营其中一家店。突然间我认识了老板，开始产生好奇心，让他们考虑一个年轻有冲劲的创业者可能对他们的生意有好处。

Maybe I buy a little something. And then maybe I decide I want to own one of these businesses with them. All of a sudden I get to know the owner and I start getting into curiosity where I get them to maybe consider that a young hustler who is really aggressive might be good for their business.

完全同意。没错，我前几年就有过这样有趣的经历。当时我在一家专门陈列精美套书的店里——其实他们主营业务是卖衣服，但店里也摆着书。我走进去时特别兴奋，因为我真的很爱书，喜欢收藏。

Absolutely. Yeah, no, I had a really interesting experience of this last, maybe a couple of years ago, I was in a store that curates beautiful sets of books. And that's not what they do professionally. They sell clothes, but they also have books in the store. And I walked in there and I was, I love, I really enjoy books and I enjoy collecting.

我四处看的时候发现这些都是新书，刚出版的，非常精美。我买了一大堆，然后店里有人突然问我：'顺便问下，你很爱书吧？'我说是啊。然后补充道：'不过其实我在找 vintage 的古董书。'

And so I was looking around and these were all like new books. They're all newly published, they're beautiful. And I bought a ton and then one person at that store just said to me, Oh, by the way, like, do you love books? I was like, Yeah. And I was like, I'm really looking for vintage books though.

如果能收藏些古董书之类的会很酷。她说，哦对了，拐角处有家不起眼的店，是个老式印刷装订作坊，不过我以前见过里面有书卖。你要不去看看？于是我直接走进去——其实先是走到外面，那地方看起来根本没人经营。

It'd be cool to own some like antique books and things like that. And she said, Well, oh, there's this random store around the corner and it's like a printing press, like an old school binding book, but I've seen books in there before. Why don't you go check it out? So I literally go walk into this books and basically actually, first of all, I walk outside. It looks like no one operates it.

店面完全破败不堪。路过时你根本不会觉得'哇这店真酷'，反而会觉得里面空无一人。我四处张望敲了敲门，确实看到些书。这时一位女士开门，里面摆着老式装订机和全套传统制书工具。我说听说您这儿卖书？

It looks completely run down. You wouldn't walk past it and think, oh, cool shop. You'd walk past it and not even, you'd think no one's inside it. So I'm kind of looking around, I'm like knocking on the door just to see, I do see some books and this lady opens the door and she's got like an old school binding press in there and old school, you know, all the old school tools that how books were bound in the past. And then she's got this bookshop and I said, oh, I heard you might sell books.

能让我看看吗？她却说：'不是的，这些书是因为我几年前离婚留下的。前夫开了家书店，给我留下约五万本疯了吧。'她说大部分书在家里，这里可能就千把本左右，让我随便拿。

Like, could I take a look? And she was like, oh no, I just have these books because I got divorced a few years back. My husband owned a bookstore. He left me with like 50,000 books or something crazy. She And goes, most of them are home but there's probably like, I don't know, a thousand here or whatever it is.

我说很乐意付钱。结果我在那儿待了两三个小时，简直像在书的神秘洞穴里探险，不断发现宝贝。

You can take whatever you want. And I was like, I'm happy to pay you but sure. So I spent like two, three hours and I was like getting really, you know, I loved it. It was like, it was literally like being inside of a secret cave of books. And I was like finding all this stuff.

最后挑了约20本，坚持要付钱表示感谢。她勉强收下后，整理时突然拿起一本说：'这书我找了五年，不能卖给你。'我当然表示理解。

So I got a stack of maybe like 20 books and I was like, hey, look, I'd love to pay you for them. Like, you know, I'm good for it and I'm grateful that you've even allowed me in. And I forced her a little bit, she finally took some money and then there was one book while she was going through and she was like, I've been looking for this book for like five years. And she goes, I can't sell this one to you. And I was like, sure, like I'm never gonna, you know, have it, whatever.

回家后上网查价，每本至少值100美元，而我每本只付了5到10美元。这个偶然发现就像藏宝库——虽然我自己留着这些书，但若有人买下那五万本转售，绝对能做成正经生意。

Anyway, I come home and I started checking all these books out online. They were all worth like at least a $100 each. I probably paid like 5 to $10 each for them. And it was just a really good example to me of like this random place that and I wanted the books, I kept them, but it was just this random place that was like this treasure trove of all of this great material and had someone wanted to go in and buy 50,000 books and sell them online or sell them anywhere. There was a real business there.

这个小插曲生动展示了：有时最珍贵的发现往往在你毫无准备时出现。

And it was a small, it was a very simple example of just how easy it was to come across something that I wouldn't even, I wasn't even looking for it.

是啊，这种经历很奇妙。一方面很美好，另一方面她看到你如此珍视这些书肯定也很开心吧？

Well, yeah. And you know, it's a funny thing I do sometimes. One, it's so lovely. And also, how happy was she probably at the value you found in it? Yeah.

你会不会觉得占了便宜？她有没有表现出'你确定吗？其实我很高兴有人陪我整理书籍'这种态度？

Like, did you feel like you were taking advantage of her? Did she feel like, wow. Are you sure? Like, I'm glad you're spending time with me.

确实如此。她真的特别开心。

Absolutely. Absolutely. She was so happy.

我认为这是我们这代人未曾意识到的一点，因为我们这代人高度注重即时交易。我们是一个高度即时反馈的世代，比如社交媒体，我们玩着高关注度的地位游戏，年轻时充满干劲、四处奔忙自然会获得大量关注。但随着年龄增长，女性会不断告诉你——她们会警告你，人到中年就会变得隐形。就像一位中年女性常说的，经常没人会注意到我。

And I think this is something we don't realize because our generation is highly transactional. We're a highly transactional generation with immediate feedback loops, aka social media, with a high status game that we play with a lot of attention on us because you get a lot of attention when you're young and hungry and moving. But as we get older, I mean, women will tell you this all the time. They'll warn you that as you get older, you become invisible. Like a middle aged woman will say, often nobody sees me.

我们团队有位文案撰稿人特别可爱，她对我说了件事。当时她把头发染成了蓝色，我就说：‘马塞尔，这发型真棒！’她是位年长女性，大概五十多岁。

And like one of our copywriters, she was so lovely. She said a thing to me. I was like, oh, she dyed her hair blue. And I was like, Marcel, it looks great. Like she's an older woman, probably like mid fifties.

我又说‘真的很适合你，是什么契机让你想染发呢？’她回答说：‘随着年龄增长，我发现没人会主动和我说话，感觉人们视线都穿透了我。后来我和小侄女一起把几缕头发染成粉色，有天过马路时，有个年轻小伙冲我喊‘嘿，大姐’——就因为我这头发。

And I was like, it looks great. Like, you know, what was the impetus? And she's like, you know, as you get older, I realized that like nobody would talk to me and I feel like they were looking through me. And she's like, so I was with my one of my little nieces and we dyed our hair little strips of it pink together. And she was like, and I was walking across the street and this young man kinda yelled over to me and he's like, hey, mama.

她说‘我都记不清上次有年轻男性和我搭话是什么时候了。所以现在只要感到被忽视，我就把头发染成蓝色。’说实话，以前看到有人这么做时，我还会想‘至于吗？什么情况？’

Like the hair. And she's like, I can't remember the last time a young man talked to me. She's like, so I anytime I now feel a little out of it, I dye my hair blue. And to be fair, like in the past, sometimes when I saw people do that, was like, really? What's going on here?

总觉得‘这操作图什么？’后来我才明白，仅仅因为我们以某种方式衡量事物价值，不代表其他人也如此。要打破思维定式发现周围商机，就别假定他人价值观与你相同。我从不信奉‘己所欲施于人’的黄金法则，而更倾向于‘以他人期待的方式对待他们’——只要不违背自我原则。

Like, what's what's the move? And then I realized, ugh, like, just because we value something one way doesn't mean that everybody else values it the other way. And so in order to break your frame and to see businesses all around you, don't assume that the same things you value other people do. It's like I've never really believed in the golden rule, which is treat others how you want to be treated. It's like, by and large, treat them how they want to be treated unless that breaks how you want to be treated.

这对创业者同样适用。我叔叔埃伯就是促使我公开谈论商业的主要原因之一，他在亚利桑那州凤凰城经营着年收入几百万美元的埃伯家管道公司。后来他患癌决定关闭公司——七十多岁的他觉得该退休了。

And I think that's the same with business owners. I mean, my Uncle Eb, which is one of the main reasons I started publicly talking about businesses online, he had a business, did a couple million dollars a year in revenue. And it's called Eb Homes Plumbing. It was in Phoenix, Arizona. And he got sick with cancer and decided he wanted to shut the business down.

当时他不知道，年利润几百万的企业本身价值就值数百万。这位用一生经营管道公司的长辈如果在场，肯定会说‘科迪，我这破公司哪卖得出去’——这正是大多数婴儿潮一代企业主的想法：‘谁会买这玩意？’

You know, he's in his seventies and was like, you know, I'm ready to be done. And what he didn't know at the time is that a business that is doing a couple millions of dollars in revenue and a couple of millions of dollars in profit is worth millions of dollars. And so this man who spent his life building up a plumbing company that probably would have thought, honestly, like if he was here, he would say, Cody, I couldn't have sold that thing. Like, that that wasn't really you know, it was it was sort of and and this is what most baby boomer business owners think. They're like, who's gonna buy this?

你有过不想继续经营却还持有的企业吗？经历过这种情况吗？

Because how many times have you had a business where you didn't wanna be in it before? Have you ever had that before?

当然有过。

Yeah. Absolutely.

肯定有。就像我在演讲时经常玩的游戏——总有人说‘盈利且持续盈利的企业没人会卖’。我就说：‘来做个测试，企业主请举手’，然后所有企业主都会举手。

Of course. Like if you're in a room, sometimes I go out to speaking stages and just for shits and giggles because people will always go, if a business was profitable and it was gonna continue to be profitable, nobody would sell it. And I go, okay, let's play a game. Business owners, raise your hand. Everybody raises their hand that's a business owner.