马修·赫西：让你陷入困境的首要约会错误（关注这一点而非化学反应，建立持久关系）

你去跟那些结婚几十年、一起扛过风风雨雨的人说说看，其中一个病了，另一个每周都开车送他去医院。

Tell that to two people who have been married for decades and have weathered storms, and one of them got sick and the other one drove them to the hospital every week.

对方的亲人有药物问题，你得忍受这个有药物问题的亲人，因为他是你最爱的人，但你们一起找到了解决办法。

Their relative had a drug problem and you had to put up with that relative with the drug problem because this is the love of your life, but you figured it out together.

我觉得这才是真正的爱。

You like, that that to me is love.

爱不是我约了个人出来，然后瞬间觉得这辈子没这么开心过。

Love isn't I went on a date and now like, oh my god, I feel the best I've ever felt.

我觉得这观点太有力量了，真是难得的视角。我刚才听你说的时候也在想，我和莱利刚在一起的时候，订婚、结婚，我以为我懂她，但其实这十二年相处、九年婚姻，我才真正意识到，当初说‘我爱你’的时候，我根本不懂她。这真是一段很奇妙的旅程。就像你说的，结婚那天，其实并不是我最爱她的那天。

I think that's so powerful and what a great perspective because, yeah, I was thinking about that as you were saying that, you know, when me and Riley first got together and then we got engaged and got married, I thought I knew her, but it's actually through the last twelve years we've been married, nine years we've been married, twelve years we've been together that I actually feel like I understand how little I knew her when I said I love you, which is a really fascinating journey to go on to your point where it's like the day we got married was not the day I loved her the most.

那时候根本不可能达到那种程度，尽管我当时可能那么说了。

It actually wasn't even possible, even though I may have said that on that day.

现在我们搬到了一个新国家，没有家人朋友，离破产只剩四个月，她对我说：我相信你。

And it's now when we moved to a new country and didn't have any family or friends and when we were four months away from being broke and she said, I trust you.

结果第二天早上，她还想去买一盆植物，对吧？

And then the next morning wanted to buy a plant, right?

就是这样的时刻。

It was like moments like that.

就是这些时刻，然后你搬到新地方，建立自己的圈子，照顾家人，忙忙碌碌——正是这些时候，你才真正明白什么是爱。

It's moments like that and then you move to another place and you build community and you take care of your family and rush like it's all those moments where you go, oh, now I know what love means.

现在我正在学习和积累，真正去爱你所需要的能力和方法。

And now I'm building the skills and the toolkit of what it means to truly love you.

其实我当初最大的误会，就是以为结婚那天我就已经懂你了。

And actually my biggest mistake was I also thought I knew you when we got married.

但现在我明白了，我其实并不懂。

And now I I realized I didn't.

所以我很喜欢你给的建议——爱是创造出来的，不是找到的，因为这从来就不是终点。

So what what I love about the advice you're giving of create it, you don't find it is that it's that never stops.

你所说的，永远不会结束。

What you're saying never stops.

正因如此，这建议才这么棒。

And that's why it's great advice.

因为如果你觉得要找到‘对的那一个’，那意味着你一找到这个人，事情就结束了。

Because if you had to find the one, that means you were done the moment you found that person.

这种想法跟现实严重脱节——现实是，你得每隔五、十年，就要重新用言语去创造和建设关系。

And that mindset creates such a fracture with reality which is, wait a minute, you're gonna have to create and build using your words, create and build every five, ten, fifteen, twenty years.

这从来就不是一件会停止的事。

It's never gonna stop.

这需要自律。

And that requires discipline.

需要自律，也需要时刻连接你内心为什么重视这段关系的初衷。

Requires discipline and it requires being connected to your why, to your reasons why the relationship itself is important.

我觉得很多关系里最容易被忽略的一点是，我有一些所谓的‘情绪按钮’，它们其实就是让我重新感受到某种情感的触发点。

I think that's one of the most missed things in so many relationships is I have these things I call emotional buttons and they are basically how I access an emotion that I want to feel again.

比如电影《斗士》里，马克·沃尔伯格和克里斯蒂安·贝尔那段情节。

So for example, there's a moment in the movie The Fighter with Mark Wahlberg and Bale.

有个场景，马克·沃尔伯格说——这听起来可能特别具体，但情绪按钮就是这样运作的。

There's a moment where Mark Wahlberg is this is gonna sound crazy specific but this is how emotional buttons are.

马克·沃尔伯格即将迎来他最后一场拳赛，他很紧张，他哥哥走过来，把头靠在他头上，轻轻摇着他。

Mark Wahlberg is about to go into his last fight and he's nervous and his brother comes up to him and he puts his head on his head and he just rocks with him.

观众席上一片沸腾，你能感受到那种混乱和紧张，但他的哥哥一出现，就让他感到安心。

And the crowd is going crazy and you could feel the chaos and the nerves and his bigger brother just comes and makes him feel safe.

每当我想到这一幕，都会起鸡皮疙瘩。我一想起这个场景，就会想到我自己的两个弟弟，也会想我该成为怎样的哥哥才能配得上他们。

And that scene, I get goosebumps as I say it, that scene, I cannot think of that scene without thinking about the kind of brother I I have two younger brothers, without thinking of the kind of brother I wanna be to my brothers.

不，这个我就不说了，因为这个和奥黛丽有关，太私密了——她根本不知道我有这个情感触发点。这其实是个很小的动作，可我要是说出来，她就会停下，然后我就再也感受不到了，而正因如此，我才更爱她。

No, I'm not gonna say that one because that one's about Audrey and it's too She doesn't know I have this emotional button but it's No it's a little thing she does, if I say it, she will stop doing it because she'll become aware of it and it makes me love her so much.

她有个很小的习惯，每次她这么做，我都会感受到一种深深的、说不清道不明的爱意，不是理智上明白的那种，而是从心底涌出来的，让我特别想让她开心。

But it's a little thing she does and when she does it, I feel a deep it's like not a rational thing, I feel a deep deep sense of love for her and I wanna make her as happy as I possibly can.

我之所以有这种感觉，是因为一想到她这个小动作，我就被拉回了和她的连接里。

I get that because I think of that thing that she does and it connects me.

这个小动作让我重新明白了，为什么我想在婚姻里成为更好的自己。

It connects me to my wife for why I wanna show up differently in the relationship.

但很多人根本没有这样的情感触发点，就算有，也从没主动去觉察和使用它们。

And a lot of us don't have these emotional buttons and we certainly don't use them consciously every day.

温斯顿·丘吉尔说过，人偶尔会撞上真相，但大多数人拍拍灰尘，装作什么都没发生过继续往前走。

Winston Churchill said, People occasionally stumble over the truth but most pick themselves up and carry on as if nothing happened.

我们偶尔也会撞上某个瞬间，明白自己为什么爱一个人，为什么他们对我们如此重要，为什么这段关系让我们的生活变得如此丰盈。

We occasionally stumble over a moment of truth about why we love someone, about why they matter so much to us, about how much our relationship enriches and enhances our lives.

如果我们不明白刚才那一刻为什么触动了我们，也不去珍惜和留住那种感觉，就会继续若无其事地过日子，下一次再感受到它，就只能靠运气了。

If we don't understand what just happened that made us feel that and bottle that, we will move on as if nothing happened and then the next time we feel it, it will be by chance.

如果下一次再有这种感觉是在三个月后，那你这三个月里就完全没触碰到那种感受，而这三个月，你可能对这段关系的投入都打了折扣。

And if that's three months from now, you just went three months without connecting to that feeling, which is three months where you might be showing up in lesser ways to the relationship.

反过来，什么时候这种努力会变成负担过重呢？

On the other end of that, when is the work too much work?

对吧？

Right?

因为这件事其实有个度。

Because there's a spectrum on that.

一方面，我们说要主动去创造这些时刻。

So on one side we're saying, Hey, we've got to create it.

你得去经营它。

You've got to build it.

你得用心维护它。

You've got to work on it.

我猜台下肯定有人在想，我都已经努力了很久，或者别人逼着我坚持了很久。

And then I'm sure there are people in the audience going, I've been working on it for a few, you know, or someone made me work on it for quite a while.

后来我才明白，到底什么时候该觉得太累了？

Then I realized, when do you know it's too much work?

你怎么判断自己已经走到那个极限了？

Like, how do you know when you're at that end of the spectrum?

我觉得没有一个明确的时刻。

I don't think there's any one moment.

想想看，当我们慢慢意识到，自己已经尽了全力，也试着把对方当成伙伴，因为你必须有个人一起并肩才行。

Think when we realize over time that we have shown up to the best of our ability and we have tried to find a teammate in them because you can't you have to have a teammate for that.

如果你想改变什么，就得有个人陪你一起推动，或者至少需要他主动参与进来。

If you want something to change, you need a teammate in helping you make that change or you need their participation in that.

很多人都想单靠自己把一段关系改善好。

There are so many people trying to make a relationship better on their own.

你需要有个人陪着你一起走这段路。

You need someone to be with you in that process.

如果没有搭档，没有谁真正理解你，这也就是为什么和一个不重视成长的人在一起会这么难。

If you don't have a teammate, if you don't have someone who acknowledges like that's why being with a partner who doesn't value growth is so hard.

你不需要找一个完美的人，但你需要一个愿意学习、谦逊、好奇、愿意成长的人。

Because you don't have to have someone who's perfect if you have a learner, someone who's humble, curious, willing to grow.

但如果一个人长时间都表现出完全不想和你一起解决这些问题，而你已经明确跟他说过，那我觉得这本身就是一种了结。

But if over time someone shows a complete lack of willingness to figure this out with you and you've communicated that with them, that I think is its own form of closure.

很多人的问题在于，他们往往只在分手那天，才真正说出自己有多不快乐，或者自己到底承受了多少压力。

The problem for a lot of people is that they only really communicate how truly unhappy they are or how many things they've been struggling with on the day of the breakup.

尤其是在一段长期关系里，这样对伴侣来说并不公平。

That, especially in a long term relationship, that's not a fair thing to do to our partner.

我觉得，我们有责任对自己、也对对方，提前建立起一种了结：这是我现在真正挣扎的地方，我告诉你，是因为我真正在乎这段关系，我有足够的安全感，才愿意跟你谈这些。

I think we owe it to ourselves and to them to create the closure of, Here's what I'm really struggling with and I'm bringing this to you because I actually care about this relationship and I feel safe enough to bring it to you and to have that conversation.

但这真的对我影响很大，你知道吗？它在这些方面、这些方面、这些方面影响着我。

But it's really affecting me and this is really, you know, it's affecting me in this way, in this way, in this way.

我们需要一起解决这个问题。

I need us to work on this.

我们需要认真对待这件事。

I need us to take this seriously.

不管怎么做，不管是咱们俩自己处理，还是找教练或咨询师帮忙，总之我们得认真对待。

Whatever that means, whether you and I do it, whether we do it with a coach or a therapist, whatever we do, I need us to take this seriously.

这得成为我们的头等大事。

This needs to be a priority for us.

我们要一起面对问题，而不是我把你看成问题本身。

You and me looking at the problem, not me looking at you as the problem.

咱们俩一起看这个问题，承认这确实是个难题。

You and me together looking at the problem and saying, this is an issue.

我们能想办法解决吗？

Can we figure this out?

我觉得，如果几个月下来，你发现没人和你一起面对这个问题，或者情况根本没有好转，不管是哪种情况，你可能就会做出那个决定。

I think then if over a series of months you're like, I haven't got a partner in this process or things aren't getting better, one or the other, then you might make that decision.

但即使你意识到对方确实愿意参与，问题还是没改善，至少你的伴侣不会某天早上突然被一连串的指责打个措手不及——他们根本不知道这些问题早就存在，结果一下子全砸到头上。

But even if you realize you do have a partner in the process but it doesn't get better, at least your partner doesn't wake up one day to a complete ambush of having no idea any of this was a problem and then all of a sudden they get hit with it all today.

我觉得，我们有责任不让对方在关系结束的那天，才第一次听说那些真正导致分手的原因。

I think we owe it to each other for someone not to be surprised on the day that it ended about the things that made it end.

对。

Yeah.

沟通确实最难，不是因为我们是坏人，而是因为我们从来没人教过怎么表达情绪。

There's such a reality to communication being the hardest part not because we're even bad people but because we were just never trained in an emotional vocabulary.

对吧？

Right?

如果你没看见过健康的感情是怎么运作的，你就学不会那样去爱。

If you didn't see great love mirrored, you weren't able to mirror it.

如果你身边的人一遇到问题就闭口不谈，那你也会选择沉默，或者像你说的，你只在分手那天才开口，而且一开口就是吵架。

If the people in your life always just shut down when there was a problem then you may shut down or like you said, not only do you only have the conversation on the day of the breakup, you only have the conversation as an argument.

所以那从来就不是一次对话。

So it was never a conversation.

那是一场争吵，一次分歧，一场彻底的冲突。

It was an argument, a disagreement, a full blown fight.

从来没有在那个时刻好好交流过，也许那时本可以慢慢消化的。

It was never shared in that moment where maybe it could have been digested.

也许本可以被听见的，也许吧。

Maybe it could have been heard, maybe.

很多情况下，我们不敢说出那些觉得说不出口的话，其实是因为想掌控局面。

And a lot of that, a lot of our fear of saying the thing that feels unspeakable is our desire for control.

我们试图控制整个状况。

We're trying to control the situation.

我们很多人都是这样，听好了，我不评判，因为我自己也干过好多次，我并不为此感到自豪。

When we're like a lot of us and listen, no judgment because I've done this several times in my life and I'm not proud of it.

但我们是在保护自己，所以一再压抑，一再压抑，一再压抑。

But we are trying to protect ourselves and so we hold back and hold back and hold back and hold back.

与此同时，顺便说一句，我们其实正在哀悼。

In the meantime, by the way, we're grieving.

我们在哀悼这段关系，只是没告诉对方我们在哀悼，或者反过来也一样。

We're grieving the relationship, we're just not telling them that we're grieving the relationship or vice versa.

我也曾站在另一方的位置上，相信你们中很多人也经历过。

I've also been on the other side of this and so have many of you.

所以才会有人跟你分手，两周后就和别人在一起了。

That's why someone can break up with you and then two weeks later they're with someone else.

你就会想，这怎么可能？

And you're like, how is that possible?

你怎么可能这么快就放下了？

How is it possible that you moved on so fast?

他们根本不是这么快就放下了。

They didn't move on so fast.

他们其实早在六个月前就跟你分手了。

They broke up with you six months ago.

你今天才刚听说这件事。

You're just hearing about it today.

那是因为他们在试图掌控局面。

That's because they were trying to control it.

对他们来说，只有在最后那一刻，觉得安全了，才敢放手离开。

It felt safe to them to control it until the last possible minute when they felt safe to leave.

然后他们就走了。

And then they left.

但正是他们对这件事的控制，才让我们如此受伤，反过来也一样。

But their controlling of it is what makes it such a traumatic thing for us and vice versa.

所以有时候，当我们对一段关系感到不满时，得学会放手，允许它破裂，或许才能好转，也可能不会。

So sometimes when we are unhappy in a relationship, we have to relinquish some control and allow things to break to maybe get better or not.

但一旦你在过程中以某种方式打破了它，你就不再能完全掌控局面了，因为他们一旦知道了，就再也无法装作不知道。

But once you break it in some way with your partner in the process, you're also now not fully in control of the situation because they can't unknow what they know.

这让我们不得不活得更冒险一点，但也许正是这一点，重新点燃了我们对伴侣的吸引力——因为他们现在知道了，可能会开始做些事，你未必喜欢他们所有的举动，但至少会让你重新感受到那种心跳的感觉。

Now that makes us have to live a little more dangerously but that also might be the thing that makes us attracted to our partner again because now that they know, they might start doing some things and you may not even love everything they do But it might make you start to feel that jolt of like, you know, something again.

给大家介绍一下，马修·赫西。

Matthew Hussey everyone.

刚才那番话真是让人震撼。

That was wow.

今晚马修来得真够劲的。

Turned up tonight, Matthew.

好了。

Alright.

在让你走之前，因为你已经来过我们播客好多次了，我们通常最后会玩个‘最终五问’，这次我们搞了个新版本，你也一起来参与吧。

Before we let you go, because you've been on the podcast multiple times, which we usually end with the final five, we came up with a new version that you can join in on as well.

这个新环节叫‘氛围检测’。

It's called vibe check.

接下来我会念几个关于恋爱和约会的情境。

And so I'm gonna read out some scenarios in love relationships are dating.

听众先来判断，这是不是个好氛围——也就是‘是’或‘不是’。

And the audience is gonna decide first whether it's a vibe, which means, yes, that's great, or not a vibe.

来，大家一起说，这是个好感觉。

So let me hear you say, it's a vibe.

这是个好感觉。

It's a vibe.

然后说，这不是个好感觉。

And then not a vibe.

不是好感觉。

Not vibe.

不错。

Nice.

接下来我会问Matthew，他是不是同意观众的看法。

And then I'm gonna ask Matthew whether he agrees or disagrees with the audience.

好的。

Alright.

现在开始，好感觉测试。

So vibe check.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

第一个。

The first one.

你正在和一个人交往，他总是准时出现，认真倾听，消息也总是回复。

You're dating someone who always shows up, always listens, always text back.

他友善又尊重你，但你们之间就是没那种感觉。

They're kind, respectful, but the chemistry isn't there.

你之所以还维持这段关系，是因为这是你第一次经历这么健康的感情。

You keep the relationship going because it's the first healthy relationship you've ever been in.

这算有感觉吗？

Is it a vibe?

不算。

No.

好。

Alright.

我让你们对其中任何一个情况发出点声音。

I'm gonna ask you to make noise on either one.

如果说有感觉，就发出点声音。

Say, it's a vibe, make noise.

如果说没感觉，也发出点声音。

Not a vibe, make noise.

刚才那个情况，其实只是稍微差了那么一点点感觉。

That was like mildly not a vibe one by a tiny amount.

所以他们的意思是，如果你只是因为这是你人生中第一个健康的关系，就勉强维持下去，那这其实算不上有感觉。

So they're saying it's not a vibe if you keep the relationship going because it's the first healthy relationship you've ever been in.

我不太会听这些。

I I don't listen.

别为了这种事硬撑一年。

Don't keep it going for like a year.

但你可以给它一个月左右的时间，看看情况会不会慢慢明朗起来。

But like give it maybe a a, you know, a month to settle in.

慢慢适应一下，看看你能不能习惯这种新感觉，因为这确实是种全新的感受。

Settle in and see if you can get used to this new feeling because it's a new feeling.

如果你习惯了混乱不堪，那这种平静一开始会显得特别无聊。

If you're used to crazy chaos, this will be boring for a minute.

没人刚戒掉毒品，第二天就能安安静静地欣赏日落。

No one comes off of drugs and then enjoys a sunset the next day.

说得太好了。

Great answer.

你和对方已经交往六个月了。

You've been dating someone for six months.

他们把你当重点，也谈过长远的未来，却从来没带你见过朋友或家人。

They treat you like a priority, talk about long term potential, but haven't introduced you to any of their friends or family.

你问起的时候，他们总说还太早了。

And when you ask, they say it's still early.

如果是对的感觉，就发个声音。

Make some noise if it's a vibe.

这感觉不对劲吗？

It's not a vibe?

对。

Yeah.

明显不对劲。

Very clearly not a vibe.

确实不对劲。

Not a vibe.

这种事什么时候该提出来谈呢？

When should that be happening with that conversation?

我的意思是，有些情况是不一样的。

I mean, listen, there's certain situations that are different.

比如对方有孩子，那就复杂了。

Like if someone has kids, complicated.

你得尊重对方，可能他们需要更长时间才能带你见那些人。

And you have to be respectful of the fact that someone might be taking a serious amount of time before introducing you to those.

但如果你说的是他们的朋友或家人，哪怕只是朋友，六个月了还没见过任何他们生活圈里的人，这事儿就有点奇怪了，毕竟你得确认这个人到底是谁。

But if you're talking about their friends or their family, even just their friends, that's a weird thing after six months if you ever met anyone in their world to verify who this human being is.

不对，这不合常理。

No, not a vibe.

绝对不合常理。

Definitely not a vibe.

很好。

Great.

我觉得我们都达成共识了。

I think we're all agreed on that.

行了。

Alright.

最后一条，送给所有在约会中感到困惑的人。

Last one for all of those who are struggling with dating out there.

你一直和一个人约会，每次都很愉快，感觉也很棒，但他们却没关注你的社交媒体。

You've been seeing someone consistently, great dates, great connection, but they don't follow you on social media.

他们从来不会发你。

They never post you.

他们说想把私人生活保持私密。

They say they like to keep their private life private.

这算是一种信号吗？

Is it a vibe?

不算。

No.

那不是信号吗？

Is it not a vibe?

也不是。

No.

哦，这倒挺平衡的。

Oh, that's pretty equal.

等等。

Wait.

谁说那是一种氛围的？

Who was saying it's a vibe?

那是一种氛围吗？

Is it a vibe?

热闹一下。

Make some noise.

等一下。

Wait.

你不是说他们不关注你吗？

For how they they don't did you say they don't follow you?

他们在社交媒体上不关注你？什么？

They don't follow you on social What?

别闹了。

Come on.

他们真的不关注你。

They don't follow you.

没事的。

It's alright.

你听好了。

It's listen.

如果有人只是说，我不打算……那倒还好。

It's one thing if someone's like, I don't.

我的意思是，他们出名吗？

I mean, are they famous?

如果一个人特别有名，还说现在不想提你，怕给你带来麻烦，那另当别论。

If someone's like, very famous and they're like, I don't wanna post about you right now because it's gonna make your life miserable.

我跟你说真的。

Trust me.

但他 probably 不出名。

But he's probably not famous.

现在有个流行说法，说一个人要是不上社交媒体、不发帖，那就是他的罗马帝国。

There's this whole trend right now about how if someone doesn't have social media and doesn't post, it's someone's Roman empire.

对吧？

Right?

如果一个人不发社交媒体，反而特别有吸引力。

It's like so attractive if someone

是的。

Yeah.

我也这么觉得。

I do think that.

我确实会留意。

I do listen.

我觉得他们最近没必要发关于你的内容。

I don't think that it's necessary for them to post about you anytime soon.

我也这么认为。

I do I do think that.

我觉得一个人的私生活不公之于众挺好的，但要是他们根本不关注你、也不跟你互动，就有点奇怪了，你知道的。

And I think it's lovely when someone is just like their private life is not out there in the world in that way, but it's a bit weird when they're not following you or they're sort of like not having any interaction, you know, Yeah.

我一点都不想制造任何反馈循环。

I don't wanna create any kind of feedback loop whatsoever.

这挺可疑的。

Suspicious.

你去跟我老婆说吧。

Tell tell my wife that.

我老婆刚开始听

My wife my wife started listening

《有目的》这个节目，是去年第一次听的。

to On Purpose, like, last year for the first time.

这算不上关注我吧。

That's kind of like not following me.

对吧？

Right?

她啊，是的。

She Yeah.

我喜欢这个，真的

I love that, To

说真的，她也从来没关注过我做的任何事。

be fair, I don't think she's ever followed a single thing that I've done either.

所以她可能只是对这类内容不感兴趣。

So I don't think she's just maybe not into this content.

好吧。

Alright.

马修人特别好，我们俩待会儿会回答一些观众的问题。

Well, Matthew's been so kind that we're actually both gonna take some questions from the audience.

那么，佩吉，你在哪儿？佩吉？

So Paige, where are you, Paige?

佩吉在这儿。

There's Paige.

佩吉在上面。

Paige is up there.

大家给佩吉鼓个掌吧。

Give make some noise for Paige, everyone.

佩吉一会儿会过来走一圈。

So Page is gonna come around.

如果有哪个问题是你认真思考过的、真诚的、友善的，而且还没喝太多酒，就请举手。

Raise your hand if you have a thoughtful, conscious, kind question and you haven't had too many drinks yet.

佩吉会去找那些举手的人，我和马修会回答你们的问题。

Page is gonna find you and me and Matthew can take some of your questions.

你们可以向我们俩中的任何一个提问，尤其是马修。

You can direct them both of us to Matthew.

不管你想问什么，他都在这儿。

Whatever you like, he's here.

好好把握这个机会，这些建议和洞见都非常棒。

So make the most of it this is great advice great insight.

快乐至关重要，但也很难捉摸。你没法直接订购快乐，也不能光靠期待就把快乐等来，但现在，有一种全新而令人兴奋的方式，能帮你开启通往更快乐生活的旅程。

Joy is essential and it's also elusive you can't order it you can borrow it or simply hope it into life but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.

《幸福入门》是我主持的新播客，我会和世界上最有趣的人——娱乐传奇、体育偶像、健康专家，还有普通普通人——聊聊他们是如何找到幸福的。

Joy one zero one it's a new podcast hosted by me how to copy together guys will have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people entertainment legends sports icons wellness experts and everyday people will share how they find allow to you.

分手后的幸福、孩子离家后的幸福、失去亲人后的幸福、作为照顾者的幸福……这档新播客都会谈到。欢迎在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客，或你常用的播客平台收听《幸福入门》。

Joy with after a breakup joy is an empty nester joy after a loss joy as a caretaker this new podcast will speak to you listen to joy one zero one on the iheart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

你觉得长久婚姻的秘诀是什么？

What do you think is the secret sauce for like a long term marriage?

你叫什么名字？

What's your name?

萨哈尔。

Sahar.

萨哈尔，很高兴认识你。

Sahar, nice to meet you.

你来自哪里？

Where are you from?

休斯顿。

Houston.

太棒了。

Awesome.

呃，抱歉啊。

Well, from sorry.

什么？

What?

在英国？

In England?

是的。

Yep.

真的吗？

Oh, no way.

我觉得你应该先从这个说起。

Well, I think you should start with this one.

你可是有长期婚姻经历的人。

You've had a long term marriage.

从某种程度上说，时间确实更长一些。

Longer term, yeah, to some degree.

说实话，我看到的最有效的做法，无论是对我们自己，还是对我上一本书里采访的那些结婚几十年的伴侣来说，就是从不试图改变对方。

I'd honestly say the biggest thing that I've seen work for us and I've seen work for the couples I interviewed for my last book who've been together for decades far longer than we have is people who never tried to change each other.

尊重就是，我不想去改变你。

Respect means I'm not trying to change you.

我乐于看着你成长。

I'm happy to watch you grow.

我会耐心等你慢慢变好，但绝不会逼你变成我想要或需要的那种人。

I'm patient while you grow, but I'm not forcing you to become the person I want you to be or need you to be.

我愿意给你空间，让你做真实的自己，因为在一段长久的关系里，人会扮演很多不同的角色。

I'm happy to let you have the freedom to be the person you are because over your relationship, people are gonna play so many different roles.

你会戴上很多不同的帽子。

They're gonna take on so many different hats.

人生会有无数的转变，如果我不尊重你，不让你做自己，那最终就会成为我们无法走下去的原因。

There's gonna be so many different transitions that if I don't respect you and let you be who you are, that's going to be the reason why we can't be together.

刚开始的时候，一个人本来的样子其实特别明显。

And those signs of who someone was were really evident in the beginning.

你只是把这些信号忽略了，因为当时的化学反应和吸引力太强烈了。

You just shut them out because the chemistry or the attraction overtook them.

我举个自己的例子吧，自从拉迪斯遇到我之后。

I'll give an example for me since Radees met me.

我的人生目标一直是最优先的，但刚认识的时候，我的目标跟现在完全不一样。

My purpose has always been my number one priority, and my purpose didn't look like this when we met.

那时候就是我一个人在伦敦租个小房间，周五晚上对着五个人讲话。

It looked like me booking a tiny little room in London and speaking to five people on a Friday night.

但莱利知道，那才是我真正看重的东西。

But Riley knew that that was my priority.

从我认识莱利那天起，我就明白，她的优先事项是陪在家人身边。

And ever since I met Riley, I knew her priority was being with her family.

她非常爱他们的。

She adores them.

她真的很爱他们。

She loves them.

正因为她对家人的爱，她才如此充满活力和温暖。

She's the incredible bubbly human being because of the love that she has for her family.

在我们生活的很多时刻，我妻子本可以说：你工作太拼了。

And at so many points in our life, my wife could have said, work too hard.

你太专注于自己的目标了。

You focus too much on your purpose.

我本也可以说：我们已经过上了很棒的生活。

And I could have said, well, we've built an amazing life.

你为什么总要跑去陪父母？

Why do you need to always go hang out with your parents?

如果真这么说了，我们的关系早就破裂了。

And and those two things would have broken our relationship.

但我明白，正是她的家人成就了她，而她也明白，正是我做这些事，才让我成为她深爱的那个人。

But I understand that her family is what makes her the person I love, and she understands that me doing this is makes me the person that she loves.

所以这就是很多人给的建议。

And so that's that's one of people's advice.

这个回答太棒了。

Love that answer.

我也很喜欢这个说法。

I love that.

你好。

Hi.

我是来自休斯顿的维多利亚。

I'm Victoria from Houston.

嗨，维多利亚。

Hey, Victoria.

今天现场好多休斯顿的朋友啊。

Lot of Houston in the house.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

我只是想知道，你觉得出轨在情感上或身体上能被原谅吗？

I just wanna know if you think cheating is forgivable whether emotionally or physically.

这个问题挺简单的。

It's a nice easy one.

马修，这次你先说吧？

Matthew, why don't you go first this time?

我本该第一个回答这个问题的。

I should have gone first on that one.

我记得罗伯特·格林曾经说过，如果一个人做过一次，那就说明他不是第一次。

I think I heard Robert Green once use the phrase, if someone nobody ever does something once.

明白吗？

Okay?

如果有人做过一次，就假设这是一贯的行为，或者他以前早就做过很多次了。

If someone did something, assume it's a pattern or that they've done it in the past many times.

我觉得这种思维方式其实特别有道理。

Now I think that's really great survival.

如果我要给人们提供关于生活和人性的生存建议，我会说这是个极其重要的教训。

If I was giving like handing out survival advice for life and human behavior, would say that's a really, really important lesson.

但我也得用一点人性和对自己的宽容来平衡这种想法——因为在座的每个人，大概都做过一些事后后悔、绝不会再做、并从中吸取了教训的事。

I also have to temper that logic with a bit of humanity and compassion for ourselves which is that probably everyone in this room has done something in the past that they regret and wouldn't do again and learned from and wish they hadn't done.

这些经历塑造了你的生活，也在某种程度上改变了你。

And that informed your life, it changed your life in some way.

有一位英国诗人叫大卫·怀特，他特别反感我们今天这种充满悔恨的文化。

There's a British poet, David White, who can't stand the culture of regrets we all live in today.

他说，每当我听到有人说‘从不后悔’，我就会想：你到底经历过什么？

He said, Anytime I hear someone say no regrets, I think, Where have you been?

其实，后悔是很重要的。

Regret is actually important.

它有着非常关键的作用。

It serves a very important function.

当你因为学生时代对别人刻薄、欺凌他人而感到后悔，这种情绪会持续影响你，让你一生都更懂得如何待人。

When you regret how you treated someone in high school because you were mean to someone or you bullied someone and that affects you, it might change the way you treat people for the rest of your life.

如果你不后悔，你就不会改变。

If you didn't regret it, you wouldn't change.

我相信‘once a cheater, always a cheater’吗？

Do I believe once a cheater, always a cheater?

我觉得生活没那么简单。

I think life's more complicated than that.

而对自己有同理心，也意味着要明白，别人同样有能力、也值得被原谅。

And I think that part of having compassion for ourselves is realizing that other people capable and worthy of forgiveness too.

但这里有个非常、非常、非常重要的转折。

But and there is a really, really, really big but here.

你没必要去修复别人造成的伤害。

It's not your job to fix what someone else broke.

这种背叛带来的创伤，对大多数人来说都很深，极其深刻。

The trauma of that kind of betrayal is deep for most people, extraordinarily deep.

所以如果你这样伤害了别人，又想挽回这段关系，那你必须清楚前方的路有多长——这条路，真的很长。

So if you betray someone in that way, you better if you want that relationship, you better understand the journey that is ahead because there is a long journey ahead.

你这不是在短跑。

You are not in a sprint.

对不起，真的非常抱歉。

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

那才是短跑。

That's a sprint.

你是在跑马拉松。

You're in a marathon.

你现在说对不起，也许能让人感觉被看见，但六个月后，它无法阻止他们的情绪闪回。

You saying sorry might be an acknowledgement today, it might help someone feel seen today but in six months it won't stop their emotional flashback.

一年后，当他们回想起那次背叛时，它也无法阻止他们再次陷入这些情绪。

It won't stop them having a revisit of these feelings a year from now when they think about that betrayal.

你必须陪他们走过这段路，承认你造成的伤害，并明白你现在要做的，是全力参与修复这份伤痛。

You're gonna have to be along for that ride and respect the damage you have done and respect that your job now is to be an enormous part of the reparation of that damage.

我经常看到那些被背叛的人，独自承担起两个人该做的修复工作。

What I see routinely is people who have been cheated on trying to do the work for the both of them.

我还能回到他们身边吗？

Like, can I be back with them?

我不知道。

I don't know.

他们现在怎么说？

What are they saying right now?

他们到底怎么说？

What are they saying?

他们有没有说，我知道自己做了什么？

Are they saying, you know, I know what I've done.

我知道这造成了深深的伤害。

I know that this has caused deep damage.

我知道这需要很长时间。

I know this is gonna take a long time.

我会一直陪在你身边。

I'm gonna be with you the whole way.

不仅如此，我会面对那个让我失控的根源，从此以后，它再也不会以同样的方式影响我。

Not only that, I'm gonna the thing that happened for me, that what triggered that, it is never gonna trigger me again in that way.

以后我不会再对这种触发做出那样的反应了，因为我一定会去努力，确保自己永远不再那样回应。

That's never gonna be my response to that trigger again because I'm gonna go out and do the work to make sure that that's never my response to that trigger again.

这可能意味着长期的咨询，也可能需要持续的指导，这条路对他们来说注定漫长，对吧？

And that might mean therapy over time, might mean coaching over time, it's that for it's gonna be a long journey for them, right?

有句话说得特别好，雅各布·恩布罗德说过：想想改变自己有多难，你就会明白，指望改变别人有多愚蠢。

There's a great line, Jacob Embroad said, Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll realize how foolish it is to think you can change someone else.

每年年初，有多少人会立下对自己特别特别重要的目标，结果到了一月底就全放弃了？

How many of you at the beginning of every year set a resolution that's really, really, really important to you, and then by the end of January, you've broken it?

那是你真心想改变的事，可你就是坚持不下来。

That was something you decided to change and you couldn't stick to it.

现在想象一下，你和一个出轨的人在一起，他虽然道歉了，但只是因为关系要崩了，现在不方便，他根本不想改变那个让他出轨的根本原因。

Now imagine being with someone who cheated and even though they're sorry because it's inconvenient right now that the relationship is falling apart, they don't actually want to change the fundamental part of them that made them cheat in the first place.

如果他根本不愿付出改变的努力，你再怎么原谅，也改变不了这段关系的结局。

If they don't want to do that work, there's no amount of forgiveness on your side that will make any difference to this relationship whatsoever.

所以要学会宽容，这是一件非常善良和有同理心的事。

So be forgiving, that's a very kind and compassionate act.

别太天真了。

Don't be a fool.

完美收尾。

Mic drop.

不用再补充什么了。

No need to no additions.

这个回答真美。

That's a beautiful answer.

真的不用了。

No need.

你好。

Hello.

你好。

Hello.

你叫什么名字？

What's your name?

我叫……

My name is.

能来到这里见到你，杰，这一直是我的梦想。

This is my dream by the way to be here and meet you Jay.

哦，谢谢你。

Oh, thank you.

为你感到高兴。

So great for you.

你是怎么应对的？

How do you deal?

这个问题该问马修，你是感情专家。

I think this is for Matthew since you're the dating expert.

不是我不信你，杰，只是我很久没约会了，因为一直在处理自己的事，面对过去的创伤，诸如此类。

Not that I don't trust you, Jay, but I haven't dated in a long time because it's been a lot of work to figure myself, deal with the traumas, blah blah blah.

我现在这个状态，按理说应该准备好谈恋爱了，毕竟我已经很清楚自己是谁了。

And I'm in a place where, like, you would think that I'm ready to date because I am who I know who I am.

但与此同时，我都43岁了。

But at the same time, I'm 43.

我独立得很。

I'm independent.

账单我自己付。

I pay my bills.

我一个人去约会也挺自在。

I take myself on dates.

朋友的邀请我都会接受。

I accept my friend request.

我的意思是，我很享受独处的时光。

I I mean, I love my company.

但我也一直渴望能有个伴侣，这一直是我的梦想。

But then I also crave I've always had a dream about having a partner.

所以我其实想认识一个人，但另一方面，我也能一个人过得很好。

So it's like I want to meet somebody, but at the same time, I can do bad by my own self.

我不想要一段关系，里面得我不断去扶持对方。

I don't want to get in a relationship where I have to build somebody up.

我不希望进入一段关系，让我欠谁人情，或者让对方觉得是他们在改善我的生活——因为现在我的生活，我自己方方面面都照顾得很好。

I don't wanna get in a relationship where I owe somebody or they feel like they're improving my life because right now I'm taking care of my life in every way.

一个人吃饭，我完全不介意。

I don't mind eating alone.

我会给自己买时间。

I buy myself hours.

我想要什么，就给自己买什么。

I buy myself everything I want.

我虽然不算有钱，但我很满足。

And I'm not rich, but I'm happy.

明白了。

Got it.

那我该怎么出去呢？

So how do I go out?

我是说，我该从哪儿开始？

Like, how do I start?

到底该做点什么才好？

Like, how do I like what do I do?

我很开心，但是……

I'm happy but

谢谢你。

Thank you.

你能走到今天这一步，清楚地认识自己，花了这么多功夫打磨自己，还为自己打造了一份安心的生活，这真的很难得。

It's a wonderful thing that you have gotten to that point in your life where you know who you are, you've done all of this work on yourself and that there's a safety that you have created in the life that you have built.

我听到的是，你心里其实还渴望另一样东西，你一再提到它，但它恰恰是你无法像掌控其他一切那样掌控的领域。

What I hear is that there's this other part of your life that you really want that you keep saying you want but it represents an area of life that you can't control the way you can control everything else.

你可以掌控工作，可以掌控自己的生活起居，可以掌控吃些什么，甚至朋友若让你失望了，你也能把精力转向下一个朋友。

You can control your work, you can control how you take care of yourself, you can control the food you eat, you can control, you know, if one friend lets you down, fight, you put your effort on another friend.

你已经为自己打造了这么多安全感。

You've built all this safety.

但到了某个阶段，你所谓的独立，其实只是还想牢牢抓住控制权。

But at a certain point, what you call independence is really a desire to keep clinging to control.

顺便说一句，皮艾特，如果你真的已经特别满足、快乐，对生活再无其他期待，那倒也没什么。

By the way, that would be fine, Piavette, if you were incredibly content and happy and wanted nothing more from your life.

但你明明还想要更多，否则你也不会站在这间屋子里，公开表达想找到一段感情的愿望。

But you do want something more which is why you stood up in front of this whole room and expressed a desire to find a relationship.

所以你是想要更多，却又害怕关系会带来什么。

So you want more but you're afraid of what a relationship could bring.

我猜，这其中的一部分，是学会真正信任自己。

And my guess is the part of that is in learning to really trust yourself.

我大胆猜一下，你真正害怕的，是有人走进你的生活，而你，天啊，居然开始喜欢上他。

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that what you're really afraid of is someone coming into your life who you, God forbid, like.

然后一切就都乱了。

And that everything up.

因为突然间，你发现自己的快乐里，有一部分是你无法完全掌控的。

Because all of a sudden it feels like there is an element of your joy that you do not have complete control over.

也许过去你曾喜欢过谁，结果一下子觉得自己失去了控制，因为你没法相信自己不会在关系里过度付出，不会用那些最终让你被忽视、幸福被牺牲的方式去对待对方。

And maybe what's happened in the past is you have been in a situation where you like someone and all of a sudden you felt very out of control because you couldn't trust yourself not to keep over giving in a relationship, not to show up in ways that eventually meant that you got walked over or that your happiness was compromised.

所以你再也不想回到那种状态。

And so there's a desire never to return to that.

当你有这种不想再回去的念头时，你其实是在说：我只能远远避开这种诱惑，因为我清楚，只要一靠近，不是别人会毁了我，是我自己会毁了自己。

And when we have a desire never to return to that, what we really say is, I just gotta keep myself away from that temptation because I know if I get too close to it, it's not someone else will mess up my life, I will mess up my life.

因为事实是，这也是你最该记住的一点：只要你相信自己，就不必担心别人会对你的生活造成什么影响。

Because the reality is, and this is the important thing for you to remember, if you trust yourself, you don't need to worry about the impact anyone else is gonna have on your life.

你根本不需要去信任别人。

You don't have to trust anyone else.

人们总会问：我该怎么重新学会信任呢？

People go, How can I learn to trust again?

别操心这个。

Don't worry about it.

相信你自己。

Just trust you.

信任的不是别人永远不会背叛你，或者永远不会有人来占你便宜、利用你的善良，而是相信，一旦有人开始这样，你有能力设立界限；如果这个界限被无视，你有力量转身离开。

Trust not that someone's never gonna betray you or they're never gonna come along and start taking too much or taking advantage of your generosity or that trust that the moment someone starts doing that, you can have a boundary and if that boundary isn't respected, you have the power to walk away.

当你相信自己，你就不用担心别人进来把一切都搞砸。

When you trust yourself, you don't need to worry about someone else coming in and screwing everything up.

我通过抗癌的经历学到的一件事——我是个刚康复的幸存者——就是，你刚才说的‘不后悔’那部分，我懂。

The one thing that that I learned in my through my cancer journey, I'm a recent survivor, is is that I I don't you know how you said the whole no regret thing?

我确实有一个遗憾，但我学到的是，要原谅自己，就得说：那时候我掌握的信息就是这样，我做出了当时最好的决定。

I do have one regret, but one thing that I learned is that to forgive myself for the regret or whatever was to say, well, that's the information I had at that time, and I made the best decision that time.

我知道我自己从不冲动行事，我做事非常谨慎。

And I know that me, I don't do things impulsively, that I'm very deliberate.

我会做足所有调研，所以我得相信自己，无论是过去的选择，还是未来要做的决定。

I do all the research, so I need to trust myself in the future about what I did in the past.

我现在的位置，我很感谢你提到这一点，因为我只需要

So where I'm at right now, I I am glad you said that because I just have to

有

have

相信现在的自己，我已经找到了真实的自我。

faith that who I am today, that I found who I am.

你已经成功保护了自己。

You've already successfully protected yourself.

对。

Yes.

你已经做到了。

You've already done it.

所以那种担心别人会进来破坏一切的恐惧，根本不可能发生。

So the thing the fear that someone's gonna come in and they're gonna take they can't.

你已经做到了。

You already did it.

你已经达成了。

You already achieved it.

你一个人已经足够好了。

You're already fine on your own.

所以任何时候你想回去，都可以回去。

So you can go back to that anytime you want.

你过去的生活已经证明了这一点。

You just proved that with the life you've been living.

现在出去吧，真正地产生影响，因为你建立这些安全感，不是为了让自己永远躲在家里。

Now go out there and make an actual impact because you didn't create all that safety so that you could never leave the house.

你建立这些安全感，是为了能走出去，放手去做大事，同时知道万一需要，你随时都能回家。

You created all of that safety so that you could leave the house and you could go blow shit up and know that you could always come home if you had to.

我觉得我们还剩一点时间，可以再问一个问题，佩吉。

I think we got time for one more question, Paige.

我叫玛雅·皮埃塔。

My name is Maya Pieta.

很高兴认识你，玛雅。

Nice to meet you, Maya.

谢谢。

Thank you.

很高兴认识你。

It's nice to meet you too.

我想问一下，当我寻找能带我更进一步的人时，在我过去的感情里，我常常会出于想让对方感觉更好、想拉他们一把、想给予他们可能从未体验过的爱，尤其是当我看到他们正在受苦的时候。

I would like to ask, when you're looking for somebody who can just take you to the next level, I guess, in the relationships that I've been in, I have sometimes I feel like I I love from a place of wanting to make someone else feel better or bring them up or show them love that maybe they haven't experienced before when I can see that somebody is hurting.

对。

Mhmm.

但当我付出太多，以至于感到精疲力尽、甚至迷失了自己时，我再也不想这样妥协了。

But giving of my energy to the point where I feel drained and have lost myself, I don't ever wanna compromise like that again.

我觉得我希望自己过得好，我也清楚我想和一个能提升我生活、改善我处境的人在一起。

I think I want to be well, I know that I wanna be with somebody who can improve my my life and my situation.

所以我的问题是，怎样才能不让过度付出变成代价太高的事？

And maybe my question is how not to let overgiving turn into something that's too costly?

比如牺牲我的平静或我的安全。

Like my peace or my safety.

玛雅，我想到两点。

Two things come to mind, Maya.

第一，过度付出其实是在满足你内心的某种需求。

The first is that overgiving is something that's meeting a need for you.

在某种程度上，这种方式对你有效。

It's working for you on some level.

关键是要弄清楚，它到底为你带来了什么。

And it's important to figure out what that's doing.

也许你感到安心，因为当你遇到一个特别依赖你的人时，这样的人反而不太会离开你。

It might make you feel safe because when you find someone who just needs a lot from you, that's not the kind of person that will abandon you.

但当你真正去接触一个平等的人时，那会让人害怕，因为对方完全有可能离开你。

But when you actually go out and meet an equal, that's scary as shit because that person can leave you.

就像皮亚维特也会离开别人一样。

Just like Piavete can leave someone.

她是个让人敬畏的女人。

She's a scary woman.

她随时可以走。

She can leave.

这就让她成了一个不可小觑的人。

That makes her a force.

和那种需要全世界帮助的人相比，和她约会要可怕得多。

That makes her much scarier to date than someone who absolutely needs all of the help in the world.

所以对你来说，现在过度付出可能让你感到安心，觉得自己不可或缺。

So it might be that for you right now, overgiving makes you feel safe, you feel indispensable.

也许你学到的爱情模式就是：只有当你付出得比对方多时，你才觉得安全；你觉得自己不配拥有那种单纯因为你是你而爱你的关系，而不是因为你总在为对方做些什么。

It might be that that's a model for love you've learned, that you only really feel safe in situation where you're giving more than the other person is, You're not worthy of being in a situation where someone just loves you for you and not because of everything you do all the time.

第二点我想说的是，当你进入一段关系，拼命付出，觉得这样做很善良、很体贴，因为对方需要你的时候，房间里其实还有另一个人，他同样需要你。

The second thing I wanna say is that you are when you go into a situation trying to give like that because it seems nice and it seems like a kind thing to do and someone else needs you, there's another human being in that room that also needs you.

当你和一个朋友在一起时，房间里其实是两个人。

When we're in a room with one friend, there are two human beings in that room.

我们对自己的责任，至少和对朋友的责任一样大，甚至更大，因为我们的首要任务是照顾好自己。

And our responsibility is just as much to us if not more than it is to the friend because our job is to take care of ourselves.

这是我们这辈子唯一的工作。

It's the only job we'll ever have for the rest of our lives.

我们从出生起，这辈子就一直干着这份工作。

It's the only job we've always had our whole lives.

你就是你这个人。

You are your human.

照顾好你自己，这是你的职责，地球上八十亿人里，没有别人能替你做这件事。

Your job, no one else out of the 8,000,000,000 people on this earth, no one else has the job of taking care of the human that is you.

谁都不行。

No one.

这是你的责任。

It's your job.

下次你发现自己过度付出时，问问自己：你这是在干什么？

So, the next time you find yourself in a situation where you're over giving, say to yourself, What are you doing?

你本职工作就一项。

You had one job.

你只有一个任务。

You had one job.

好好照顾这个人。

Take care of this human.

现在这个人正极度渴望爱，因为你让她一直不停地为别人付出，却得不到自己的需求被满足。

And right now this human is starving for love because you have put her in a situation where she is giving non stop to somebody else and not getting her needs met.

事实上，这种情况发生的原因是，这个人害怕进入一种完全不同的状态。

And the truth is, the reason that's happening is because your human is scared of being in a situation that is completely different than that.

你不喜欢、总在抱怨的这种模式，其实对你来说也很安心，因为你在这个模式里感到特别安全。

This dynamic that you don't like, that you complain about is also a dynamic that's very comfortable for you because you feel very safe in it.

现在你的任务是，稍微勇敢一点，开始接受这样一个想法：这个世界上，确实存在真正平等互惠的关系。

Now, job is to live a little more dangerously and to start making space for the idea that there are relationships out there that will be truly reciprocal.

但当你第一次遇到这样的关系时，你会害怕，会不舒服，会忍不住还想继续付出。你会遇到一个健康的人，然后不停地想为他们付出一切，结果反而把对方吓跑了——因为他们会想：你为什么总这样？

But when you first find one, it's gonna be scary to you, it's gonna be uncomfortable, and you're gonna feel the urge to keep giving You're gonna find someone healthy and you're gonna try and give all this stuff to them all the time and it's gonna scare them away because they're gonna be like, Why are you doing this?

为什么？

Why?

你就正常点吧。

Just be normal.

做个普通人。

Be a person.

我不需要你这么做。

I don't need you to do this.

他们就会这么想。

That's what they're gonna be like.

你的任务是意识到：得把那种靠付出换取价值的旧方式放一放，才能腾出空间，用一种全新的、也更充实的方式去体现自己的价值——而不是总在那些离不开你的关系里，靠无底线付出让对方离不开你。

And your job is gonna have to be to realize, Oh, I'm gonna have to put my normal way of getting significance down so that I can create space to be significant in a new way and ultimately in a much more rewarding way than being in relationships where someone is dependent on me and can never leave because I just do so much for them and they absolutely need me.

各位，给马修·哈西打个call。

Guys, give it up for Matthew Hussey.

谢谢大家。

Thank you, guys.

如果你喜欢这期内容，那你一定会喜欢我和马修·哈西聊的那期，主题是如何走出前任阴影，找到真正健康的感情。

If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.

列出你真正希望在伴侣身上找到的特质，然后自己活成那样。

Make a list of the things that are truly important for you to find in a partner and then be that list.

快乐很重要，但也很难捉摸。

Joy is essential and it's also elusive.

现在有一种全新而令人兴奋的方式，可以开启你的旅程。

Now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey

去做快乐的事。

do Joy

就现在。

that.

101，立即收听。

One zero one and listen now.

《快乐101》由霍达科特皮主持，由CVS赞助。

Joy one zero one with Hodakotpi is presented by CVS.

这是iHeart播客。

This is an iHeart podcast.

百分百真人

Guaranteed Human.