尼克·基里奥斯谈：如何应对被误解，以及停止试图满足他人的期望

我想赢，这样我的整个团队都能和我一起分享这份喜悦。

I wanted to win so then like my whole team can share that with me.

我其实并不在乎。

I don't really care.

我真的一点都不在乎。

Like I actually don't really care.

我想赢得温布尔登，这样就能让所有人都闭嘴，让我一个人清静。

And I wanted to win Wimbledon so I could just shut everyone up and so I could be just left alone.

所以当我在家喝啤酒或只是放松时，人们就会问：‘你这是在干什么？’

So if I'm at home and I'm actually having a beer or I'm just chilling, people will just, oh, what are you doing?

我会说：‘我赢了温布尔登。’

I'm like, I won Wimbledon.

你没法对我指手画脚了。

Like you can't tell me anything.

在网球界，你就是永生的，你知道吗？

You're immortal in that tennis world, you know?

是的。

Yeah.

我打进了决赛，但人们依然批评我。

Like I made the final and people still criticize me.

我觉得如果我赢了那场，也许一切就会停止了。

I feel like if I'd won that, maybe it would stop.

所以你觉得你在比赛时努力赢，是因为觉得有很多人对你寄予厚望。

So you feel like when you're playing, you're trying to win because you feel so many people have invested in you.

对。

Yep.

还有那么多你在意的人相信你。

And so many people believe in you, the people that you care about.

是的。

Yeah.

你几乎想为了他们去赢。

And that you almost wanna win for them.

是的。

Yes.

而且让其他人闭嘴。

And to shut everyone else up

也一样。

as well.

那会很好。

That would be nice.

我很期待看到你接下来赢得几场胜利。

I'm excited to see you go on and win a few.

我觉得你有潜力、有能力，而且也有那种心态去做到这一点。

Like, I I think you have the potential and the ability and, you know, the mindset to go and do it.

但当你赢了的时候，你知道，就像我知道的那样，那依然不会让那些人闭嘴。

But when you go and win, you know as well as I do that, that still won't shut people up.

我知道。

I know that.

我知道

I know

那只是

that.

我只是觉得，那只是虚假的希望，猜测而已。

I just, it's just false hope, guess.

那是什么虚假的希望？

What is that false hope?

你给我讲讲吧，因为我觉得这很真实。

Walk me through that because I think that's real.

我觉得我们都这么想，对吧？

I think we all feel, right?

这就是我们的假设。

This is the hypothesis.

我们都觉得，只要做点什么，就能最终让别人真正了解我们。

We all feel that there's something we can do that will finally convince people of who we are.

我们都在以自己的方式等待着为你做那件事。

And we're all waiting in our own way to do that thing for you.

可能是一场网球比赛。

It may be a game of tennis.

是的。

Yep.

对别人来说，可能是升职；对即将获得特定学位的人来说，可能是毕业；对我来说，可能是采访某个人，诸如此类。

For someone else, it might be a promotion for someone who will be graduating with a particular degree for me, it will be interviewing someone, whatever.

就像我们都有那种想法，认为当我做到这件事时，人们就会说我成功了。

Like we all have that thing where we think when I do this, then people will say I made it.

是的。

Yep.

为什么会这样呢？

Why is that?

我不知道，我觉得如果人们真正理解了我的历程，他们就不会这么咄咄逼人了，我想。

I don't know, I feel like if people really understood my journey, then they wouldn't be so pushy I think.

如果我坐下来，和所有黑我者一起吃顿饭，好好跟他们讲讲我的故事，他们会不会更理解我，就不会再那么在社交媒体上，或者一般情况下，对我进行批评或攻击了呢？

And like if I just sat down with all my haters and we had like a nice meal together and I gave them my side of story, think they'd have a better understanding and they wouldn't be so like, they wouldn't criticize or be so aggressive towards me on social media or just in general.

所以我觉得，也许如果我这么做了，我们也不会……我其实离成功已经很近了，但我根本就不是真的那么热爱这项运动。

So I feel like maybe if I do and we wouldn't, and I was so close and I don't even really love the sport.

我之所以这么做，只是因为我爱我的家人和身边的人，我想证明，不管你多么不被看好，你都能实现像赢得温伍德这样的目标。

I'm only doing this because I love taking care of my family, my people, and I want to do this so I can prove that no matter how much more of an underdog you are, you can achieve something like winning Wynwood.

我从来没想到自己竟然有能力做到这一点。

I never thought in my mind that I would be capable of doing that.

你看，你说得对。

And look, you are right.

我知道。

I know

即使我这么做了，人们还是会说

that even if I did that, people are going

然后就会说：好，现在再做一次。

be like, all right, now do it again.

这就像是，我想这就是生活的激烈竞争吧。

And it's just like, I guess that's the rat race of life.

多少才算足够呢？

How much is enough?

而且我觉得我现在对我的爱很满足。

And I feel like I'm very content with my love now.

有足够多的东西可以享受。

Have more than enough to enjoy.

所以，如果由我决定，我可能不会再打了，说实话，我真的不想再打了，但我几乎不得不继续，我还有很多可以付出，但对我来说，感觉已经不想

And so if it was up to me, probably wouldn't, I don't really want to play anymore to be honest, but I have to almost, I've got so much more to give, but for me, don't feel like

再打下去了。

playing anymore.

这不是你缓解压力的方式吗？

And that's not your way of taking the pressure off?

不，不是。

No, not.

我太累了，真的筋疲力尽。

Like I'm exhausted, I'm tired.

你知道吗，我才28岁，已经做过三次手术了。

And you know, have had three surgeries now that, I'm only 28 years old.

我一直希望能拥有一个家庭，而且不再受疼痛折磨。

I always wanted to be able to have a family and not be in pain.

我站起来的时候，走路都离不开疼痛。

When I get up, I can't walk without pain.

这真是一份艰难的工作。

So it's a tough gig.

真的很艰难。

It's tough.

我很欣赏你的坦诚，因为这让我想到了几件事。

I appreciate the realness because it's that, you know, there's a couple of things that come to mind.

我第一个想到的是，我是个彻头彻尾的C罗粉丝，如果有人问我C罗七号还是梅西，我永远选C罗七号。

The first thing that comes to mind for me is always, I'm a Cristiano Ronaldo fan through and through, like, if anyone asks me CR seven or Messi, I'm CR seven all the way.

他就是我的榜样，如果你能达成一切的话。

He's the example for me if you can achieve everything.

但仍然会有50%的人。

And there'll still be 50% of people.

觉得别人更优秀。

Who think that someone else is better.

是的，别人更优秀，而且不仅仅是更好，他们甚至觉得你根本没资格被讨论。

Yeah, someone else is better and not even just better, they think you're not even in the conversation.

比如有50%的人会说，C罗连前两名都进不了。

Like there's a 50% of people who will be like, well, CR7 doesn't even make it into the top two conversation.

是的。

Yeah.

你能有这种想法，真是奇怪。

And it's bizarre that you can even feel that way.

所以我从这个角度去看，觉得这家伙已经赢得了一切。

And so that I look at it through that perspective where I'm like, this guy's won everything.

是的。

Yep.

他几乎激励了全世界每一代足球运动员。

He's inspired pretty much every next generation of football players in the world.

然而仍有人对他有意见，这让我感到不可思议。

Yet there are people who have an issue with him and blows my mind.

与此同时，你在谈论现实，我很感谢你说我筋疲力尽，这确实很难。

And then at the same time, you're talking about the reality, I appreciate you saying I'm exhausted, it's hard.

你知道，我记得科比·布莱恩特的妻子瓦妮莎·布莱恩特做过一次采访。

You know, I remember interview that Vanessa Bryant did, Kobe Bryant's wife.

她谈到，当科比受伤或在比赛中受伤时，唯一能让他坚持上场的，是他对球迷的热爱。

And she talked about how the only thing that got Kobe to play when he was injured or having an injury during a game was his love for the fans.

他会说，这位球迷花钱是为了看我打球。

And he would say that this fan paid to see me play.

如果我今天不打，那么那位球迷可能再也负担不起看球的机会了。

And if I don't play today, then that fan may never be able to afford to play again.

所以我必须上场。

So I have to play.

所以他打球是为了超越自己。

And so he was playing for beyond him.

并不是说，哦，我得打，因为我得再赢一个总冠军。

It wasn't, oh, I've got to play because I've to win another ring.

听到一位运动员说‘我累了’，这真的很有趣。

It's really interesting to hear an athlete say, I'm tired.

这活儿不容易。

It's a tough gig.

这很难，因为我觉得我们几乎希望相信顶尖运动员不会感到疲惫，但事实并非如此。

It's hard because I think we almost want to believe that the best athletes don't feel that, but that's not true.

不，这不是真的。

No, it's not true.

我想2019年那段时期加速了我的成长。

And I guess that period in 2019 kind of accelerated my exalt.

就像如果我有一个比较正常的职业生涯，不引人注目地发展，我觉得我不会是现在这种感觉。

Like if I had a bit of a normal career and I flew under the radar, I don't feel I'd feel this way.

但那几年，真的，我认为给我的年龄带来了很大的负担。

But those couple years really, I think put a lot on my age.

我今年28岁，但感觉好像已经几乎走遍了每一个国家。

Like I'm 28, but I feel like I've traveled to pretty much every country.

我见识过各种文化，你知道吗，我13岁就开始去各国旅行，亲眼目睹了贫困是什么样子。

I've seen cultures, know, was traveling to countries when I was 13 and I saw what poverty was like.

这真的让我大开眼界。

It really opened my eyes.

而且我觉得那几年加速了，或者说几乎让我职业生涯的终点提前了一些，因为我有那种感觉，而且我长期承受着伤痛，以至于我必须为超越自我而战。

And I guess those couple years accelerated my almost pushed me to the end of my career a bit earlier because I felt that way and I was so eternally hurting that I had to play for more than myself.

这就是为什么现在，当我训练时，我感到筋疲力尽。我不想让人们看到这个就说，好吧，他太软弱了或怎样，但这真的很难。我厌倦了打网球，不仅仅是去年外出参赛——那是我职业生涯中最好的一年，我在数百万人面前比赛，体育场座无虚席，所有人的目光都聚焦在我身上。

And that's why now I do, I'm exhausted when I train, like, I I don't just, want people to watch this and say, okay, he's soft or whatever, but it's just hard, I'm tired of playing tennis, more than going out last year, had the best year of my career and I'm playing in front of millions of people, stadiums packed out, everyone's eyes on me.

我不知道是否每个运动员都喜欢那样，但我对此有点……

Don't know if I'm an athlete loves that, but I'm a bit to that.

我感觉自己有点像马戏团的动物。

I feel like a circus animal a little bit.

我走上赛场，感觉就像，哦，大家只想看库里奥斯做出些疯狂举动。

I walk out there and like, oh, just want to see Curios do something crazy.

我有点厌倦扮演那种角色了。

Like I'm sick of kind of playing that role.

我厌倦了那种，我必须彻底变成另一个人的感觉，我不喜欢那样。

I'm sick of playing like, I've got to turn to a completely different person and I don't like that.

这太让人筋疲力尽了。

It's exhausting.

你认为当你回来时，你打算如何以不同的方式去应对呢？

Do you think when you come back, how are you trying to figure out how you'll approach it differently?

你考虑过这个问题吗？

Have you thought about that?

嗯，我想我现在已经有点想通了，我只想再打一到两年，保持顶尖水平，然后按照自己的意愿退役。

Well I think now I've kind of come to peace with, I only want to play for about another one to two years and be at the top and go out on my own terms.

我可不想再做一次手术之类的事情。

Like I would hate to have another surgery or anything like that.

所以我觉得我还能再打一到两年，然后就结束了。

So I think I've still got the ability to have a good one to two years and then that's it.

我觉得我会对自己所取得的一切感到心满意足。

I think I'll be at peace with everything I've achieved.

你说得对，我必须跟所有希望我继续打球的人说：你们只能接受我不再打球了。

And you're right, I'm gonna have to just say, look to everyone out there who wants me to play more, you're just gonna have to be okay with me not playing anymore.

是的。

Yeah.

人们正在试图弄清楚你是否会在十二月参赛。

Well, people are trying to figure out whether you'll be playing in December.

对。

Yep.

显然，就像你所说的，你即使站起来时也会感到疼痛。

You're obviously, like you said, you're in pain even when you stand up.

是的。

Yep.

比如，你如何处理那种焦虑——人们希望我在12月参赛，但我甚至不知道自己那时能否康复。

Like how do you deal with that anxiety of like, people want me to play in December, I don't even know if I'll be better yet.

对。

Yep.

我要报名吗？

Do I enter?

你如何应对

How do you navigate

这很难，因为我在去健身房，做康复训练，身体可能出了严重问题，这需要时间。

It's hard because I'm going to the gym, I'm doing my rehab, might have something seriously wrong with your body and it takes time.

我只是个普通人，我很想成为像德约科维奇那样几乎总是健康的人，看起来是这样，但要恢复到那种高水平的网球比赛，需要数月甚至数月的力量训练、坚持和勤奋。

I'm only human, I'd love to be like a Novak or someone that just is always healthy almost, it seems that way, but it takes months and months of strength, consistency, diligence to get back to playing tennis at that high level again.

我不想重返巡回赛却只是打得一般般。

Like I don't want to get back on tour and just play decent.

我曾经在争夺大满贯，我想回到那个水平。

I was competing for grand slams, I want to get back to that level.

所以可能还需要更多时间。

So it might take you know, a bit more time.

是的。

Yeah.

我想回溯一下你刚才说的，如果你能把所有黑粉都约出来吃顿饭，好好聊聊。

I want to go back a few things when you were saying like, if you could take all your haters out for dinner and hang with them.

想象我们现在正在吃饭。

So imagine we were at dinner.

对。

Yep.

所有的黑粉现在都坐在这里。

And all the haters are here right now.

你希望他们了解你什么，才能真正理解你？

What do you want them to know about you to understand you deeply?

如果你能对他们说三件事，让他们更深入、更用心地理解你，那么在当下这种氛围中，你内心真正希望他们知道的是什么？

If you could say three things to them to understand you more deeply and intently, what would you genuinely at the heart want them to know if, if we had the flow with them right now?

我想我会更想倾听他们。

I guess I would want to listen to them more.

我会问：你为什么这么讨厌我？

I'd be like, why do you dislike me so much?

因为当我读到这些评论时，我真的觉得他们发自内心地不喜欢我。

Because I feel like when I'm reading all these comments, they really truly don't like me.

而我觉得，对于我不认识的人，我从不会讨厌谁。

And I feel like I don't dislike anyone that I don't know.

我觉得，对一个我完全不了解其为人的人持有意见，这太荒谬了。

Like, I just think it's ridiculous to have an opinion or that person, I have no idea who they are or how they are.

所以我只会问他们：你为什么这么讨厌我？

So I would just ask them, why do you dislike me so much?

然后我会让他们敞开心扉。

And then I would make them open up.

比如说，我会用我的女朋友作为例子。

For instance, I'll use my girlfriend as an example.

所以我在澳大利亚的名声是傲慢、疯狂、情绪不稳定，当你第一次见一个人时，这三样特质已经是非常糟糕的先入之见了。

So my reputation in Australia is arrogant, he's crazy, he's volatile, and having those three things when you're meeting a person for the first time, they're probably three pretty rough things to already assume of someone.

每次我遇到新的人，我都得向他们证明，那不是真正的我。

I had to prove, every time I meet someone new I have to kinda prove to them that's not me.

于是我问她，你最先想到的三样东西是什么？

So I asked her, what was the first three things that came to mind?

然后她告诉了我那三样东西。

And then she told me those three things.

这就是世界上所有没见过我的人对我的第一印象。

And so that's how everyone in the world that hasn't met me before assumes I am.

这真的很残酷。

And that's pretty brutal.

这三样特质实在太糟糕了。

How those three things are terrible.

我不会和任何傲慢、情绪不稳定或疯狂的人混在一起。

I don't hang around with one person that is arrogant or volatile or crazy.

她只和我相处了两次，然后就说，你和媒体描绘的你完全不一样。

And she just spent two times with me and then she's like, you're completely different to how the media paints you out to be.

所以我想，每个黑我人都以为我就是那样的，我猜是这样。

So I guess every hater just thinks I'm like that, I'm assuming.

所以我只是努力证明我不是那样的人。

So I would just try and prove that I'm not like that.

但这真的太难了。

But it's it's it's so hard.

这段关于激发创造力的内容由AT&T赞助。

This segment about inspiring creativity is brought to you by AT and T.

AT&T相信，连接改变一切。

AT and T believes connecting changes everything.

当我们谈论职场创新时，人们普遍存在一种误解，认为通知和科技带来的持续刺激会抑制创造力，但研究表明，数字连接实际上能提升你在工作中的创造力和生产力。

When we talk about innovation in the workplace, there is this misconception that notifications and the constant stimulation from technology hinder creativity, but research suggests that being connected digitally in fact enhances your creativity and productivity at work.

我个人非常相信多种沟通方式的存在。

Personally, I'm a big believer in having various modalities of communication.

就像找到一种完美的平衡，在高效完成工作的同时也能享受其中的乐趣。

It's like finding that perfect mix between getting stuff done and having a good time doing it.

当我们拥有这么多交流方式时，不仅仅是为了处理正事，更是为了增添一些乐趣。

When we've got all these ways to chat, it's not just about the serious stuff, it's about adding some fun.

你知道那种工作与娱乐的结合。

And you know that mix of work and play.

这就像一块磁铁，把每个人都吸引过来。

It's like a magnet, pulling everyone in.

这不仅仅是分享想法，更是一起欢笑，感受到真正的团队氛围。

It's not just about sharing ideas, it's about laughing together and feeling like a real team.

这就像在加强团队凝聚力的同时，发现了一个充满创意的宝箱。

It's like finding a treasure chest of ideas while making our team bond stronger.

最棒的是什么？

And the best part?

当人们在工作中感到快乐时，一切都会改变。

When people feel happy at work, it changes everything.

他们不仅仅是在工作，而是真正投入其中。

They're not just working, they're truly engaged.

你能看到笑容，听到笑声，感受到这种积极的氛围。

You see smiles, hear laughter, and feel this positive vibe.

就好像每个人都在齐心协力追求成功。

It's like everyone's working together towards success.

这种环境对公司和员工来说都是双赢的。

And that kind of environment is a win win for both the company and its employees.

以下是通过应用程序和产品与同事保持同步，如何提升职场创造力。

And here is how staying up to date with colleagues through apps and products can boost creativity in the workplace.

你可以通过结合视频会议、智能白板和多种应用来为有效的头脑风暴创造条件。

You can set the stage for effective brainstorming sessions by using a blend of resources like video conferencing, smart whiteboards, and diverse applications.

这些工具营造了一种思想自由流动的环境，促进多元视角和创新解决方案。

These tools foster an environment where ideas flow freely, facilitating diverse perspectives and innovative solutions.

当你需要解决问题时，可以立即获取信息。

You have immediate access to information when you need a problem solved.

这意味着你能非常迅速地应对挑战，帮助团队快速且毫无麻烦地解决问题。

It means you can tackle challenges super quickly, helping your team sort things out fast and without any hassle.

我喜欢用谷歌搜索，嘿，这家公司是怎么解决这个问题的？

I love googling, hey, what did this company do to solve this problem?

这家公司是如何想出这个点子的，并且能够立刻了解到相关信息？

How did this company invent this idea and being able to learn about it immediately?

你可以使用多种工具来激发创造力。

You can use a variety of tools to spark creativity.

比如ChatGPT、Coggle、Poplet和MindMeister这些工具。

Tools like ChatGPT, Coggle, Poplet, and MindMeister.

如果你还没试过，一定要试试看。

If you haven't tried them, make sure you do.

这些不仅仅是程序，它们就像是你的创意伙伴。

These aren't just programs, they're like your creative partners.

它们能帮助你的大脑产生新想法、提出有趣的问题，并快速解决问题。

They help your brain come up with fresh ideas, ask interesting questions, and sort out problems super fast.

把它们想象成你的创意工具箱，为头脑风暴会议提供动力，并帮助你发掘惊人的新想法。

Think of them as your creative toolkit, powering up brainstorm sessions and helping you uncover amazing new ideas.

我的团队也使用像Slack和WhatsApp这样的应用程序。

My team also uses apps like Slack and WhatsApp.

它们不仅仅是用来随意聊天的。

They are not just for chatting casually.

它们就像是工作中维系我们沟通的粘合剂。

They are like the glue that holds our communication together at work.

这些应用让我们保持同步，使团队协作顺畅，并在我们最需要时提供快速解决方案。

These apps keep us in sync, making teamwork smooth and giving us quick solutions when we need them most.

本节目由AT&T为您呈现。

This has been brought to you by AT and T.

AT&T相信，连接能激发灵感、团结人心、治愈创伤并助力我们成长。

AT and T believes connecting inspires, unites, heals, and helps us grow.

连接改变了我们的生活方式，让一切变得更好。

Connecting changes how we live our lives for the better.

她是怎么抽出时间来让你相信这一点的呢？

How did she give you the time of day to, like, make you believe that?

因为就像你说的，对很多人来说确实如此。

Because like you said, for a lot of people Yeah.

而且你们在一起已经有一段时间了。

It was And you've been together for a bit now.

是的。

Yeah.

到现在快两年了。

Two years now coming up.

不过，你知道，我刚从一家小公司买了面镜子。

But, you know, I just bought a mirror off a small company.

这只是个借口，你知道，就是个借口。

It just excuses, know, just an excuse.

我该怎么让她给我一个机会呢？

Like, how am I gonna get her to just give me the chance?

我觉得那些讨厌我或者不喜欢我做事方式的人，根本不会给我机会，连听都不听，因为他们觉得我疯了。

And I feel like these people that hate me or don't like how I go about things, they they won't even give me a chance, they won't even listen because they think that I'm crazy.

你觉得你是不是在某个时候开始扮演这个角色的？

And do you think you just started playing the character at one point?

当然。

Definitely.

但归根结底，钱是很重要的。

Well that's, you know, at the end of the day, money's important.

所以我明白，那个叫尼克的才是大家想要的。

So I knew that that Nick could, that's the one that everyone wanted.

他们不在乎我真实的样子，他们只想要那一个。

They care about how I actually was, they just wanted that one.

品牌们只想和那一个合作。

Like brands just wanted to work with that one.

哇。

Wow.

那真的很艰难。

And that was hard.

比如，我早年每次做品牌相关的事情时，都精疲力尽。

Like I was like, every time I do something brand wise earlier in my career, was exhausted.

我回到家后都会说，谢天谢地，总算结束了。

I got home and was like, thank God that's over.

所以我能

So I could

再次做回自己。

just be myself again.

我会遇到一些人，他们只想要那个形象。

And I'd meet people and they would just want that.

你怎么知道的？

And how did you know that?

是你周围的人告诉你这些的吗？因为这确实很吸引人，对吧？

Were there people in your vicinity telling you that or like because that's fascinating, right?

我觉得，对于普通人来说，天赋的构建过程是相当疏离的。

Like the construction of talent is something that I think the average person is so separated from.

就像我五年前搬到洛杉矶时，我指导和合作过许多不同领域的人，无论是音乐、表演还是运动员。你开始意识到他们的管理团队希望他们塑造某种形象，比如必须表现出单身状态，否则如果处于长期关系中，人们可能就不会对你感兴趣；或者你必须以某种方式行事，这样某个品牌才愿意与你合作。

Like when I moved to LA five years ago, and I coach and work with so many different people in different parts of whether it's music, acting, athletes, and you start recognizing how their management and their teams want them to be a certain persona, whether it's like, you've got to show that you're single because otherwise people, you know, people won't be into you if you have a long term relationship or you've got to be this way so that this brand will want to work with you.

你当时听了多少这样的建议？

How much of that was in your ear?

你是听到了类似的说法，还是更多是你自己内心的想法？

Were you hearing things like that or was it more in your own mind?

更多是我自己内心的想法。

It was more in my own mind.

我觉得，你知道，我现在的团队一直都只希望我快乐，做我自己。

I think, you know, my team now have only ever wanted me to be happy and be myself.

我知道这一点，这也是我一直把他们留在身边的原因。

And I know that, and that's why I kept them around.

我的圈子很小，但我知道品牌方想要的是那个尼克，这有点可悲，因为他们甚至不想了解真实的我这个人，我们都不会坐下来像这样交谈，他们只想要我在球场上的那个样子，就是那个能娱乐大众的人。

Have a really small circle, but I knew that brands, I knew that they wanted that Nick and it's sad in a way because they don't even want to get to know me as me as a person, we wouldn't even sit down and have this conversation with, they just wanted me to be that one they see on the court, like be the entertaining one.

就像，我私下里并不是那样，我非常随和。

It's like, I'm not like that off the go, I'm very chilled out.

是的，我只是觉得大多数人只想见到那个形象。

And yeah, just, I feel like most people just want to meet that one.

是的。

Yeah.

因为这样能卖出票。

Because it sells tickets.

当然。

Of course.

吸引关注，登上头条。

Gets attention, gets the headlines.

没错。

That's right.

这让它成了一个亮点。

It makes a moment out of it.

对。

Yep.

你什么时候觉得自己把那个角色演得特别好？

When was when was the day where you felt you played that character really well?

比如，你会说什么时候你意识到：嘿，你知道吗？

Like when would you say you're like, you know what?

那是我演得最棒的一次表演，是在哪里？

That was the best acting gig I ever did where?

去年在美国公开赛上表现不错。

Last year at the US Open was good.

比如纽约的亚瑟·阿什球场是我们最大的球场。

Like Arthur Ash Stadium in New York is the biggest stadium that we have.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

今年赢了。

Won this year.

你走到后面，抬头看，就像在飞机上一样，四周全是人群，直勾勾地盯着你。

You go to the back and you look up as on the plane, it's just like a wall of people just like glaring down at you.

这就是网球最酷的地方。

And that's the coolest thing about tennis.

你无处可躲。

There's nowhere to hide.

如果你打得不好，也不能换人下场。

Like if you're playing if you're having a bad day, can't sub out.

没有人能替你上场。

There's no one to play your position.

所以你就只能在那里。我觉得纽约和美国观众让我感觉特别自在，我觉得他们真的很喜欢你表演、在场上做些疯狂的事情。

So you're just there and I just feel like New York and the Americans, I feel extremely at home here, I feel like they really do enjoy when you put on a show and you do some crazy stuff out there.

所以每次我走上球场前五分钟，都在更衣室里对自己说：好吧，今晚我得更像那个尼克，因为我真的很感激美国球迷给我的支持。

So every time I was stepping out on that court, was five minutes before I was in the locker room, was like, okay, I gotta be more of that Nick tonight because I do appreciate the love that the American fans do give me.

不过确实，每一场比赛都像是一场表演。

But yeah, every match was a bit a show.

你对世界各地不同的地方感觉会不一样吗？

Do you feel differently about different places around the world?

你当然经常旅行，作为一名网球运动员，你到处比赛。

You've traveled, of course, as a tennis player, you travel everywhere.

你在澳大利亚、英国和美国比赛时，分别有什么不同的感受？

How do you feel like when you're in Australia versus when you're in The UK versus when you're in The US?

比如，带我了解一下你在媒体和其他方面作为球员所经历的不同之处。

Like, walk me through the differences you experience as a player in the media and everything else.

我讨厌在澳大利亚比赛。

I hate playing in Australia.

就像，如果你要播出这个，显然，人们会以为大多数澳大利亚人都喜欢在澳大利亚比赛，但对我来说，有一个时刻彻底毁了这种感觉。

Like that's gonna if you're gonna air this, obviously, that that's gonna people think that like most Australians love playing Australia, but there was one kind of moment that ruined it for me.

我当时正在打澳大利亚公开赛的第二轮。

I was playing second round of the Australian Open.

我有过几个赛点。

I had some match points.

那场比赛持续了四个半小时，但我输了。

It was like a four and a half hour match, and I'd lost.

我在第二轮就输了。

I'd lost second round.

我记得在墨尔本比赛后被观众嘘下场，那是我最糟糕的感觉之一，因为那场比赛后，我把自己锁在理疗室里，外面不断有人敲门，说要接受采访、要干这个干那个，我关了灯，感到无比压抑。

I remember getting booed off the court in Melbourne, and that was one of the worst feelings for me because I remember after that match, I locked myself in the physio room with my physio and there were just people knocking it on the door, like I had to do media, had to do this, I turned the lights off and I was just so overwhelmed.

我为我的球迷全力以赴打了四个小时，却输掉了比赛，结果还被嘘下场。

Like I'd given my absolute all in front of my fans for four hours and I lost the match and I just got booed off the court.

这让我对在澳大利亚比赛产生了很不好的印象。

And for me that really ruined that put a sour taste in my mouth playing in Australia.

我知道现在我在澳大利亚取得过一些很好的成绩，观众们也支持我，但我不会忘记这样的事。

And I know now like I've had some great results in Australia and they have been behind me, but I don't forget things like that.

我觉得，如果我爱一个人，理解他付出的努力和时间，我绝不会那样做。

I feel like if I loved someone and I understood the effort and the hours I put in, I would never do that.

我绝不会对我家乡的英雄发出嘘声。

I'd never boo off one of my hometown heroes.

所以我想，这就是为什么它影响了我与澳大利亚的关系，你知道，代表这个国家比赛。

And that's why I guess it's affected my relationship with Australia, know, playing for the country.

因为我在那里的媒体上饱受抨击。

It's because I've been battered in the media there.

他们说过一些非常难听的话，甚至有一些澳大利亚的传奇人物曾让我和我的家人滚回我们来的地方。

Like they've said some horrible things, like there are some Australian legends that have told me and my family to go back to where we come from.

我就是不会忘记那样的事情。

And I just don't forget things like that.

莱顿·休伊特曾打电话问我，你为什么不想为国家队效力？

I've had Layton Hewitt call me on my phone and say, why don't you want to play for the country?

这里的每个人都希望你在这里，但是，国内没有其他球员像我一样，面对针对他们家人、女友的强烈反对或负面评价，这很伤人。

Everyone here wants you here, it's like, but no other player in country has dealt with the backlash or the negativity towards their family, their girlfriend like me, that hurt.

所以我想，对我来说，在澳大利亚打球，我并不是很喜欢。

So I guess playing in Australia for me, don't really like.

伦敦，那里完全不适合我。

London, just don't fit it there at all.

温布尔登，那种感觉很奇妙。

Wimbledon, it's a crazy feeling.

就像纪录片说的，就像沙漠里的雪人。

It's like the documentary said it's like a snowman in the desert.

真的就是这样。

It literally is.

我在那里走动时，每个人都说：天啊，他穿着像动漫T恤一样的衣服。

I walk around there, everyone's like, oh my god, he's wearing like a I could be wearing like an anime shirt.

他们说：看，他穿的是什么。

They're like, oh, look what he's wearing.

我在那里做的每一件事都像被放在显微镜下观察。

Everything I do there is like under a microscope.

那是一种很特别的感觉。

And that's a that's a cool feeling.

我想诺瓦克大概也能理解这种感觉。

Guess Novak would kinda understand what that feels like too.

他就像个反派，你知道的。

He's like the villain, you know.

好像没人希望你赢。

It's like no one wants to see you win.

没人希望你打进决赛。

No one wants to see and you made the finals.

你有像皮尔斯·摩根这样的人对你恶语相向。

You have people like Piers Morgan just throwing absolute venom at you.

这就是我喜欢打美网的原因，因为我觉得这里就像家，气氛太棒了，他们释放出的能量和我一致，我超爱在那里打球。

And That's why I love playing the US Open because I feel wow, this is at home, the energy is amazing and they bring that energy that I have and I love playing there.

澳大利亚和英国有点让我提不起劲，但美网，我超爱。

Australia and England are a bit, I don't like playing there, but US, love it.

是的。

Yeah.

很好，是的。

Good to, yeah.

我也喜欢亚洲。

I love Asia as well.

亚洲太棒了。

Asia's amazing.

亚洲也是吗？

Asia too?

是的。

Yeah.

你觉得亚洲人特别热爱娱乐。

Just think Asia just love entertainment.

他们喜欢新鲜的东西，而且很有礼貌，你知道的。

They love something different and they're respectful, know?

我觉得他们觉得那里的人们很不一样，但没错，我也很喜欢在亚洲比赛。

I think they get to think that people are different there, but yeah, I love playing in Asia as well.

如果你从一开始就能以‘好人尼克’的身份出现，人们也真正了解你，那会有什么不同？

What would have changed if you were allowed to be Nice Guy Nick from the beginning, and people perceived you as you actually are?

你觉得这会对你的风格、事业和工作产生怎样的影响？

How do you think that would have impacted your game, your career, the work?

在我的职业生涯前五年，几乎不可能和任何人达成任何合作，因为他们觉得我情绪不稳定、疯疯癫癫的。

Well, the first five years of my career, I was almost impossible to get any sort of deal with anyone because they just thought I was volatile, crazy.

他们不想让我代表他们的品牌。

They didn't want me representing their brand.

但我觉得，如果他们了解真实的我，知道我其实是个好人，情况可能会好很多，我可能赚到更多钱。

Where I feel like if they knew how I was and actually like a nice guy that would have helped, I probably would have made a lot more money.

我可能也会更安心，因为人们真正知道我是个好人。

I probably would have been more at peace with people actually knowing that I was a good guy.

有一段时间，我以为全世界都觉得我是个糟糕透顶的人。

Cause for a minute there I thought the whole world thought that I was just a terrible person.

我觉得这会对我的处境有所帮助。

I feel like it would have helped me.

我绝对不认为我还会陷入人生中那段黑暗时期，但反过来想，我也不想改变那段经历，因为那显然造就了今天的我。

I definitely don't think I would have fell into that dark period of my life as well, but coversely, I don't want to change that because that makes me who I am today, obviously.

我知道大家都会这么说，但当我开始在社交媒体上敞开心扉谈论这件事后，每天都有很多人向我倾诉。世界各地都有人联系我，我甚至把电话号码给了他们，和他们通电话，努力向他们表达：你正在经历的这些完全正常，没关系，但请继续联系我，如果需要帮助，随时和我保持联系。

Know everyone kind of says that, but when I opened up on social media about it, the amount of people that now open up to me daily, I've got people around the world that I give them my number and I've had phone calls with people and tried to articulate in a way that it's okay, that's completely normal what you're going through, but like please keep reaching out to me, stay in touch with me if you need any help.

所以归根结底，我职业生涯中最有力量的事情，就是帮助他人度过人生的艰难阶段。

So that's been the most powerful thing in my career at the end of the day is helping others getting through rough patches of their life.

至于所有的成就，我其实并不在意它们。

All the accomplishments, I don't actually care about them.

我身边所有人都知道，我从来不会坐在那里谈论我取得了什么成就。

All my people know, I don't ever sit there and talk about what I've achieved.

我其实并不太在意这些。

Like I don't really care about it.

我觉得那些都有点肤浅，但我现在拥有的平台非常棒，我能用它做很多事。

I think that's all a bit superficial, but the platform that I have now is amazing what I can do with it.

是的。

Yeah.

这很有趣，不是吗？

It's interesting, isn't it?

作为专业人士，我们往往认为完全掌控是才华的体现。

As a professional, we assume that complete control is a demonstration of brilliance.

但现实是，当你从事自己热爱的事情时，充满激情是很自然的。

When the reality is that when you're playing something you love, it's natural to be passionate.

是的。

Yep.

而且，想想看，我的意思是，我不是运动员，但即使是我和朋友们踢足球时，如果我射门没进，或者有人罚丢了点球，我也会非常在意。

And like, think, I mean, I'm not an athlete, but as in, even if I'm playing football with my mates, if I miss a shot, someone misses a penalty, I can take it very seriously.

是的。

Yep.

而且我不觉得，那是一种激情、在乎、热情和活力的表现。

And I don't see, that's a sign of passion and care and enthusiasm and energy.

这并不是

It's not a

是不在乎的表现，

sign of, not caring,

他们不是不在乎，也不是对谁生气或对我朋友发火。

they're not caring or being angry at someone or being mad at my mate.

他是我朋友。

It's my mate.

他永远都会是我的朋友。

He's always going be my mate.

但在那一刻，我会想，老兄，你本该把那个点球打进的，对吧？

But in that moment, it's like, dude, you should have put that penalty away, right?

但我们试图在网球中做到这一点。

But we've tried to make, in tennis.

在网球中，几乎没有任何空间留给激情和个性。

It's almost like there's no space for passion and personality, especially in tennis.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一项，你看，这是一项白人特权运动。

It's a very, look, it's a white privilege sport.

所以我从一开始就处于不利地位。

So I was behind the eight ball from the get go.

你知道，我是有色人种，个性鲜明，情绪外露，所以我总是要对抗的远不止是场上的对手。

You know, I was colored, had some, big personality, wore the emotion on my sleeve, so I was always trying to play against so many more people than just who was down.

击败世界顶尖选手本身就已经够难了，每天的训练、饮食、纪律，这些都已经是巨大的挑战。

Beating the best players in the world is already hard enough, the training every day, the diet, the discipline, that was already hard.

但对我来说，每次踏上球场，都感觉像是在与数百万更多的人对抗，我想这就是为什么我现在比普通网球选手更疲惫一些。

But me, it was like I was playing against millions more people every time I went out in the court and I think that's why I'm a bit more exhausted than the average tennis player now.

当别人上场时，他们只是在和对面的对手较量，而我却是在与媒体对抗，因为我知道我做的每一件小事都被放在显微镜下审视，即使我打了一场完美的比赛，也会有人说，哦，这本来就是应该的。

When someone goes out there, they're just playing against who's down the other end, but I was playing against the media, was playing against because I knew that every little thing I did was under such a microscope and even if I had a flawless match, was like, oh, that's how it should be anyway.

但只要我一做错什么，马上就会有人说，哦，看吧，果然如此。

But then the minute I did something bad, was like, oh, here it is.

看吧，这才是他的真面目。

See, that's his true colors.

我当时就觉得，我赢不了。

I was like, I couldn't win.

我真的赢不了。

I actually couldn't win.

然后如果我表现得很好、很有纪律，他们又会说，不行。

And then if I was well behaved and disciplined, was like, no.

那样太无聊了。

It was boring.

所以这就像是，好吧，你们想要哪一个？

So it's like, okay, which one do you want?

这就是我在网球界一直以来的感受，他们从未真正接纳过我。

And that's how I've always felt like on the tennis world, they haven't embraced me.

这就是为什么我现在对网球界怀有如此深的怨气，感觉就像，我不再欠任何人任何东西了。

And that's why I've got such a big chip on my shoulder now with the tennis world, it's like, I don't owe anyone anything anymore.

所以，这一直是最大的问题，我的整个职业生涯就像是一个行走的矛盾体。

So that's been the biggest, it's just been a whole, like a walking contradiction my entire career.

听起来背负了太多东西。

It sounds like a lot to carry.

是的，确实如此。

Yeah, it is.

确实如此。

It is.

我认为这就是我陷入黑暗的原因，因为我知道无论我做什么都无法赢。

And I think that's why I fell into that dark space because I knew that I couldn't win no matter what I did.

这让我想到，我想给你看这个。

How does this, I wanted to show you this.

对。

Yep.

这个。

This one.

看看这个。

Take a look at that.

这是来自2023年6月的斯图加特公开赛，我想。

It's from the Boss Open Stuttgart, June 2023, I believe.

看起来不开心。

Don't look happy.

是的，那时我刚从膝盖伤病中恢复，刚做完一次相当严重的手术，我知道自己身体上可能还没准备好参赛。

Yeah, and I was just, this was when me coming off my knee injury and I had a pretty serious operation and I just knew that physically I probably wasn't ready to go.

这很难，因为即使我不参赛，甚至在疫情期间，网球界依然把我当作关键的营销点之一，来维持这项运动的运转，那段时间也是最艰难的之一。

And it's hard because even when I don't play or even during COVID, the tennis world used me as a kind of one of the key marketing points to keep, I guess the sport afloat whilst during that period, that's been one of the hardest things as well.

就像一个给了我如此多负面经历、把我当外人对待的运动，却依然把我放在海报封面、用来吸引观众买票。

It's like from a sport that's given me so much negativity and of treated me like an outcast, they still use me as someone that they want put on the front cover for tickets or getting people to be there.

所以我知道，我在网球界一直被如此糟糕地对待。

So it's like, I know that I just get treated so poorly in the tennis world.

我看着那张照片，感觉我整个人都亮了，但我只是精疲力尽，一点能量都没有。

I look at that photo and just look lit, I'm just spent, there's just no energy there.

这很令人难过，因为我只是在镜头前做另一次采访，因为赛事需要而已。

And it's sad because I'm just in front of a camera doing another interview because the tournament needs it.

然而我知道，如果我——我确实输掉了那场比赛——会因此遭到憎恨。

Yet I know that if I, which I did go on to lose that match, got hate for it.

所以，是的，这很难，真的很难。

So yeah, it's hard, it's hard, it really is.

你是在尝试修复自己与网球以及这个行业的关系吗？从某种意义上说，你似乎背负着——这当然是有道理的——一种对这个行业的痛苦、压力和受害者心态，因为你承受了太多的伤害。

Are you trying to heal your relationship with tennis and the industry, like for yourself in the sense of, it almost feels like you carry, there's validity to this, of course, like you carry like a sense of like pain and stress and victimhood to the industry because there's been so much pain caused to you.

你内心是否有任何一部分在尝试疗愈这些，以便不再对行业怀有那种怨恨？

Is there any part of you that's trying to heal that so that you're not carrying that bitterness towards the industry?

我认为造成了太多伤害，我想是因为当人们问我，如果时光倒流，你还会拿起球拍吗？

I think so much damage is being done from, I guess, because when people ask me, if you had your time again, would you ever pick up a racket?

我真的认真思考过这个问题，我觉得我不会再从事这项运动了。

And I genuinely thought about it and I don't think I'd ever play this sport.

就像我觉得我永远不会再拿起网球拍了。

Like I don't think I'd ever pick up a tennis rack.

这真是件可怕的事，因为我的一生都是建立在网球之上的。

And that's such a scary thing because it's like my whole life has been built off tennis.

如果再给我一次机会，我依然不会打网球。

And if I had this again, like to go again, I wouldn't play tennis.

我觉得这太艰难了，也太黑暗了。

And I think that's so hard and it's so dark.

我现在的一切都围绕着我在球场上的成就，但如果能重来，我根本不想再拿起球拍。

Like my whole life now revolves around what I've achieved on the court, but then if I could do it again, I wouldn't ever want to pick up a racket.

说实话，我确实和自己讨论过这个问题，但我觉得我无法修复体育给我以及其他人带来的伤害。

And that is like, and I'm genuinely being honest, like I've had conversations with myself about it, but I don't think I can repair the damage that I guess the sports brought up on me and just anyone.

体育给我家人带来的压力，是无法愈合的。

Like the amount of stress that has put on my family has, you can't heal that.

六个月前，有人带着枪闯进我家，用枪指着我妈妈，想抢我的车。

Like, you know, six months ago, someone came to my house with a gun and pointed at my mom to steal my car.

我从未想过自己会提起这件事。

And I never thought that I'd bring that up.

我住在澳大利亚的一个好社区，像这样的事本不该发生，但这一切真的很难熬。

Like I live in Australia in a nice neighborhood, like where things like that just don't happen and it's just been hard.

我从未想过自己会经历那样的事情。

Like I never thought I'd deal with things like that.

还有我妈妈现在所经历的创伤，是的，我觉得我根本无法修复与网球的关系了。

And like the trauma that my mom has now gone through and yeah, I don't think I can repair my relationship with tennis at all.

哇。

Wow.

我的意思是，这确实，是的，你能照顾好自己和家人并找到解决办法，这很了不起，因为几年前我采访过丹尼斯·罗德曼，那是我做过的最艰难的采访之一，因为他当时处境非常糟糕。

I mean that's, yeah, it's amazing that you've been able to kind of take care of yourself and your family and figure it out because a few years ago I interviewed Dennis Rodman and it was one of the toughest interviews I've ever done because he was in a really bad place at the time.

我个人并不认识他，所以不清楚他现在是否好转，或者他目前状况如何，但我只记得在那次采访中，当被问及他的人生目标时，他说是为了再活一天。

I don't know him personally, so I don't know if he's better now or you know, where he's at, but all I remember was that in that interview, was, like, asked him what his purpose in life was and he said to survive another day.

这就是他当时的状态。

That's where he was at.

很大程度上是因为他感觉自己被媒体对待的方式，因为你知道，丹尼斯·罗德曼当时无处不在，他不仅在球场上成功，场下生活也被大量记录。而且他本人也是个难以捉摸的角色，性格非常独特。

And a lot of it was because of how he'd felt treated by the media because he was like, you know, Dennis Rodman was everywhere when, you know, not only was he successful on the court, but off the court, his whole life was documented in so many And he was the wild card too, like in his persona.

这让我觉得非常有意思，就好像直到有人崩溃或垮掉，我们才意识到媒体的压力有多重，而且我认为我们的大脑本就不是为承受数百万条关于我们表现、家庭和生活的评论而设计的。

And it's just fascinating to me, like, it's almost like until someone crashes or until someone burns, we don't realize how heavy media and like, I don't think our brains are wired for millions of opinions to write about us and our performance and our families and our life.

我认为现在每天都在聚光灯下生活的人数正在不断增加。

And I think the amount of people that are now dealing with that today, are in the spotlight constantly has only increased.

身处聚光灯下的人越来越多，批评他们的人也越来越多。

There are more people in the spotlight and there are more people criticizing people in the spotlight.

我们从未停下来思考过这一点。

And I don't think we've ever stopped to think about.

当有人像你这样坦诚时，你只能感同身受地想，是的，我们根本没意识到自己正在对他人造成多大的伤害，因为我觉得你生气的并不是网球这项运动。

And when someone is as honest as you, you can only empathize to think, yeah, we don't realize the damage we're doing to people because I don't think it's tennis that you're mad at as a sport.

这项运动本身，我觉得问题出在它伴随而来的东西上。

The activity, it's what comes with it is what it sounds like to me.

没错。

Definitely.

不是打网球本身的问题。

It's not playing tennis.

不是的，因为我喜欢网球。

No, because I enjoy it.

我认为网球是一项很棒的运动，每个打网球的人，我都能理解这项运动为何令人愉悦，并且对身心有益。

I think tennis is a great sport and everyone who plays it, I'm like, I can see how it's enjoyable and it's great for you.

是的，更确切地说，我觉得凯里·欧文说得对，你知道，我喜欢他的一些观点，因为他提到，我认为人们不愿承认言语真的能深深伤害一个人。

Yeah, it's more so I think Kyrie Irving, you know, I love some of his stuff because he says like, I don't think people want to say words can actually hurt someone a lot.

我也说过完全相同的话，名气和社交媒体，这些都是人为制造的。

And I've told, I've said the exact same thing, fame and social media, it's all man made.

一个人本不该每天醒来，就不断接收如此多的负面信息涌入大脑。

Someone's not supposed to wake up and then see such negativity feed into their brain constantly every day.

那么，你如何期望一个人能在如此多的负面情绪下正常表现或仅仅是生存下去呢？

And how do you expect someone to just perform or just survive with that much negativity?

而且，我显然会和一些朋友讨论这件事，你可能无法理解，但我和一些朋友聊过，没人能真正理解，因为这太不正常了。

And I have conversations, obviously you would not understand, but I have conversations with some of my friends about it and no one can understand that because it's like, it's not normal.

就好像，你本不该看到所有这些负面信息，你本不该去应对它们。

Like you're not supposed to see all that negativity, you're not supposed to deal with it.

我也不知道，我想我大概已经想不出什么答案或解决办法来应对这种情况了。

And I don't know, I guess I've kind of run out of answers or solutions as to how do you deal with that.

是的，你可以和别人谈谈这件事，但它太令人难以承受了，你该如何阻止它呢？

Like yeah, you can speak to people about it, but it's so overwhelming and how do you stop it?

你说得对，直到有人真的崩溃、彻底垮掉，你才会觉得，我们可能做得太过分了，但这就是人性，我们都把一些事情视为理所当然，直到有了反应，我们才明白自己的行为。

And you're right, until someone really crashes and burns, then you're like, I think we push it too far, but that's human nature, we all take things for granted and we all don't understand our actions until there's a reaction.

不过，确实，我的意思是不想用‘我只是在勉强生存’这样的说法，虽然我每天确实感觉只是在勉强生存。

But yeah, I mean, don't like to word it in the sense that I'm just surviving, every day I'm just surviving, but it does feel like that for me.

这就是为什么一切对我来说都像是额外的奖赏。

That's why everything's a bonus.

就像如果我明天还在这里，享受生活，吃着Chipotle，去看一场湖人队或快船队的比赛，那真是太棒了，太不可思议了，我从没想过我还能在这里做这些事情。但显然，丹尼斯只是无法用其他方式表达，事情就是这样，有时候感觉就是如此，只是那样说出来有点阴暗。是的，但我想这大概也是我一半时间里的感受。

Like if I'm here tomorrow and I'm enjoying it, I'm eating Chipotle and I'm going to watch a Lakers game or a Clippers game, like that's amazing, like that's awesome, I never thought that I'd still be here doing those things, but obviously Dennis just couldn't obviously articulate any other way, like that's how it is, that's how it feels like at times, and it's just a bit dark to say it like that, Yeah, I but but I guess that's just what it feels like for me half the time as well.

我刚才说的是，你能变得更加乐观积极，这真的很了不起，我希望你能继续保持下去，因为从我们相处的短暂时刻，我能看出你玩得很开心。

What I was saying is it's amazing that you've been able to be more upbeat and kind of positive, and I hope you keep finding that because just from the few moments we spent, I could tell you like having a good time.

你喜欢微笑，喜欢大笑，你知道吗，从你今天走进我家门的那一刻起，就有一种积极的能量围绕着你。

You like smiling, you like laughing, like, you know, like there's a positive energy that surrounds you from the moment you walked into my home today.

我希望你永远保持这一点，因为你天生就有这种能力，能让人们感到愉快，并散发出积极的能量。

And I hope you always hold on to that because you have that natural ability to make people feel good and have a positive energy.

我希望你永远不要失去这一点，因为这似乎是你的天性。

And I hope you never lose that because it seems to be who naturally who you are.

走上另一条路实在太容易了。

It's so easy to go down the other track.

不过，你是怎么处理你的感情关系的呢？

How have you managed though with your relationship too?

显然你对这段关系非常公开，你是如何保持这种积极状态的呢？

Like obviously you're quite public about your relationship, how have you managed to maintain that in a positive way as well?

因为这似乎是生活中积极的一部分，也是你愿意分享的部分。

Because that seems to be a positive part of your life, a part of your life you like sharing.

是的。

Yep.

你之前提到的很多生活方面，但把一段关系放在聚光灯下确实不容易，是的。

A lot of part of your life that you're talking about earlier, but having a relationship in the spotlight is very Yep.

那么，你是如何在保持公众关注的同时，又维持它的积极氛围的呢？

So how have you managed to keep that in the spotlight, but then also keep it positive?

关于爱，你不得不放弃的一个观念是什么，那就是爱需要被赢得？

What is one thing about love you've had to unlearn that it's earned?

认为爱必须是永恒的才算数。

That it needs to be forever for it to count.

二月是爱的月份。

February is the month of love.

无论你是否在恋爱中、随意约会，还是自豪地单身，这都是一个反思自己和你真正想要什么的好时机。

Whether you're in a relationship, casually dating, or proudly single, it's a great time to reflect on yourself and what you want.

我是希望·伍德德，语音播客的主持人。

I'm Hope Woodard, host of the voice over podcast.

这个月的每周，我们都会从各个角度探讨爱。

And each week this month, we're looking at love from every angle.

我不知道该如何告诉我的伴侣，我在床上想要什么。

I don't know how to tell my partner, like, what I want in bed.

关于浪漫小说，我想说，与其他任何文化类型相比，它总是把女性放在首位。

Thing about romantic fiction, I would say, more than any other genre of culture is that it's always put women first.

我的婚姻变得毫无意义。

My marriage stopped making sense.

那种联系开始变得不对劲。

The connection started to feel off.

行为也开始变得不一样了。

The behavior started to feel different.

今年二月，通过收听《Voice Over》来与自己建立联系。

This February, get in touch with yourself by listening to voiceover.

那是 b o y s o b e r。

That's b o y s o b e r.

我心里想，我真希望不会讨厌和我同床的人。

I'm like, I would love to not hate the man I'm sleeping with.

我不明白这到底是怎么回事。

I don't know what that's about.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple Podcasts 或你常用的任何播客平台收听《BoysOber》。

Listen to BoysOber on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

黑人历史存在于我们的故事、我们的文化以及我们今天仍在进行的对话中。

Black history lives in our stories, our culture, and the conversations we still having today.

我

I

不知道

didn't know

在这个黑人历史月，播客《我不知道，也许你也不知道》深入探讨了那些不常出现在教科书中的时刻、观点和经历。

This Black History Month, the podcast I didn't know, maybe you didn't either, digs into the moments, perspectives, and experiences that don't always make the textbook.

让我来给你讲讲加勒特·摩根的故事。

Let me tell you about Garrett Morgan.

老兄当初不得不假装自己根本不存在，就为了卖出他自己的发明。

Bruh had to pretend he didn't even exist just to sell his own invention.

请收听《我过去不知道，或许你也不知道》，来自Black Effect播客网络，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方收听。

Listen to I didn't know, maybe you didn't either, from the Black Effect Podcast Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or simply wherever you get your podcast.

什么

What do

当你

you do when

新闻头条无法解释你内心的感受时，你会怎么做？

the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you?

我是本·希金斯。

I'm Ben Higgins.

而《如果你能听见我》是文化与灵魂交汇之处，一个进行真实对话的地方。

And if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation.

每一期节目，我都会与来自各行各业的人士、名人、思想家以及普通人坐下来交谈。

Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks.

我们会深入探讨那些经过修饰的故事背后的真相。

And we go deeper than the polished story.

我们谈论是什么驱动着我们，是什么塑造了我们，以及是什么给予我们希望。

We talk about what drives us, what shapes us and what gives us hope.

我们坦诚面对那些重大的议题：当你不再认识自己时的身份认同，改变你的失去，当成功还不够时的目标，当你的思绪无法平静时的安宁，以及当信仰变得复杂时的信念。有些嘉宾已经有了答案。

We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, faith when it's complicated, some guests have answers.

大多数人仍在摸索中。

Most are still figuring it out.

如果你曾觉得故事背后一定还有更多，那么这个节目就是为你准备的。

If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《If You Can Hear Me》。

Listen to, if you can hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嗯，这一点也源于我的经验。

Well, was very that just comes from experience as well.

我之前有过一些关系，你知道的，那些关系很有毒，最后都没好结果。

I've had relationships prior that, you know, were toxic and they didn't ended up going well.

我觉得我现在这段关系最棒的地方，就是我们彼此有着非常明确的界限和尊重。

And I think the thing I love about my relationship now, we have such strong boundaries and respect for each other.

在社交媒体和人际关系中，界限常常比较模糊。

Like we don't and with social media and relationships in general, like boundaries can be a bit soft.

我觉得，我成长的背景是，我父母已经在一起将近四十年了。

And I think, you know, I come from a background where my parents have been together for nearly forty years.

哇。

Wow.

而且他们，你知道，他们仍然会争吵、互相开玩笑、惹对方生气。

And they're, you know, they're still, they argue and they joke with each other, they get on each other's nerves.

我和我妈妈谈过这件事，她说，耐心是一段关系中最重要的东西，沟通和耐心。我想我的女朋友比我年轻一些，但我们坐下来，设定了彼此的界限和尊重，我认为这就是为什么我们的关系能成功，因为我们明白处于聚光灯下对关系来说是残酷的，总会有人试图诋毁你，在这里或那里发条信息，点个赞，这类事情。我现在意识到我必须对这些事情保持警惕，因为这关乎尊重。

I spoke to my mom about it, she goes, patience is the biggest thing in a relationship where communication and patience, and I think my girlfriend's a bit younger than I am, but we've sat down, we've set our boundaries and respect for each other and I think that's why it works because we understand that being in the spotlight is brutal for relationships, there's always going be people trying to tear you down, send a message here or there, liking a photo, these types of things and I've now realized that I have to be diligent with these things because it's a respect thing.

在社交媒体上，我想这就像是你在当今时代的样子，你是谁，你在Instagram上是谁，你在Twitter上是谁。

On social media, guess that's like who you are in today's and ages, who you are, who are you on Instagram, who are you on Twitter.

所以你必须确保自己在那些平台上把每一条都做到位。

So you have to make sure that you're ticking every box on those sort of platforms.

不过，是的，我的女朋友能理解，她也愿意听我说。

But yeah, my girlfriend gets it and she listens to me.

如果我没有这些经历，她可能就不会听了。

If I hadn't had all these experiences, she wouldn't listen.

所以她知道我经历了很多，她也同样信任我。

So she knows that I've been through a lot and she trusts me as well.

所以她确实会听，而且我们的关系非常好。

So she does listen and we have a great relationship.

是的，设定界限这部分确实非常重要。

Yeah, the boundaries part is so important.

这真的太重要了。

It's so important.

我总举这个例子，如果她怀着我的孩子，而我的手机突然弹出有女孩喜欢我的照片之类的消息，这就会埋下隐患，积累紧张情绪，然后最终爆发。

I always have this example, if she was pregnant with my kid and my phone just popped up with girls just liking my photo and stuff, that plays a path and that builds up tension and then it just explodes.

所以我尽力做到面面俱到，让她感到舒适和被尊重，尤其因为我们备受关注，这一点就更加重要了。

So I try and tick every box and make her feel comfortable and respected and especially it's heightened because we're in the spotlight so much.

所以我竭尽所能让她感到安心。

So I try and do everything I can to make her feel comfortable.

是的，确实，我觉得，我记得我和我妻子在一起大概三年后才……不对，我们结婚三年，在一起六年之后，才在社交媒体上公开一起做了点事。

Yeah, no, it's a, you know, I think it was, I remember my wife and I had been together for like three years before, no, we'd been together for, we'd been married for three years and together for six years before we did something together publicly on social media.

没错。

Yep.

我觉得这对我们来说非常重要，因为我们已经在一起一段时间了，但当社交媒体开始为我带来关注、我创作的内容开始走红时，我们还在摸索建立我们的关系基础。

And I felt that that was so important for us because we'd been together for a while, but then when social media started to take off for me and the content that I was making, we were just still like finding our foundations.

是的。

Yep.

就像是在慢慢摸索明白。

And like figuring it out.

我无法想象如果我们比那更早就在社交媒体上以任何形式共同活跃会怎样，因为我觉得那时我自己还在摸索这对我的意义。

And I can't imagine if we would have been active on social media together in any way earlier than that for us, because I think I was just figuring out what it meant for me.

然后她就在思考这对她意味着什么。

Then she was figuring out what it meant for her.

我觉得很多人，无论你是否拥有平台，我们都没有进行过这样的对话，也没有和另一个人一起弄清楚这一点。

I feel like a lot of people, it doesn't matter whether you have a platform or not, we're not having those conversations and figuring that out with another human being.

即使是现在，直到今天，我妻子在社交媒体上的优先事项以及她想分享的内容也和我不同。

And even now, even till this day, my wife has different priorities on social media and what she wants to share than I do.

而这带来了许多有趣的问号。

And it comes with so many interesting question marks.

比如有人问我们：你们经常分享你们的关系，但她却不发。

Like we had someone asking us a question of like, oh, well you post about your relationship, but she doesn't.

这是否意味着你们之间有问题？

Like, does that mean there's an issue?

我当时就说：不，只是我们的方式不同。

And I was like, no, it's just we have different ways.

我喜欢分享我们的关系，而她更喜欢保持一定的私密性。

Like I love sharing about our relationship, she likes keeping it a bit more private.

这并不意味着有问题，但令人着迷的是，一切都被脱离了上下文来解读。

Like that doesn't mean that there's an issue, but it's so fascinating how everything gets taken out of context.

是的，我认为大多数关系的问题都源于社交媒体。

Yeah, I think most relationships, the problems stem from social media.

我有一些朋友，他们的关系非常健康，但在社交媒体上的标准不同，就像你所说的那样；但我觉得，为了让关系有最好的发展机会，你们在这些方面必须达成一致。因为在我之前的恋爱中，双方在社交媒体上的标准不一致，也没有互相尊重，结果都不太好。

And I've got friends that have very healthy relationships with different standards on social media like you said, but I feel like to give the relationship the best chance of working, you need to see eye to eye on those things because in my previous relationships, the standards on social media weren't the same and they weren't as respected of both sides and it didn't go well.

但在这里，我们在这些方面意见一致，我认为这是关键所在，因为再次强调，媒体到底是什么？

But here we see eye to eye and I think it's a crucial part of it because again, media, what is it?