诺瓦克·德约科维奇：史上最伟大逆转之一

这是iHeart播客《 Guaranteed Human 》。

This is a iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.

嘿。

Hey.

我是乔尔。

It's Joel.

还有马特。

And Matt.

来自《如何理财》。

From how to money.

如果你的新年决心是终于理顺财务状况，我们全力支持你。

If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back.

物价仍然很高，经济也起伏不定。

Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place.

但2026年是你有意识地规划并取得实质性进展的一年。

But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress.

没错。

That's right.

对。

Yeah.

每周我们都会剖析与你金钱相关的情况、最值得关注的重要问题，以及那些能带来巨大改变的小行动。

Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference.

自信地开启新的一年。

Kick off the year with confidence.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你常用的任何播客平台收听《How to Money》。

Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我开始向我的教练倾诉很多。

I started sharing so much with my coach.

我记得我爸爸曾说：‘你为什么不对我说这些呢？’

I think that I remember my dad was like, why don't you share that with me?

我当时说：‘因为我觉得我们无法在那个层面上产生共鸣，我们试过，但始终没有成功。’

And I was like, because I don't feel we can resonate on that level, and we tried, but we it never worked out.

但他很理解，我也需要身边有一些人，在不同层面上影响我。

So, but he was understanding and that I also have to have, you know, people that are close to me and then influence me on different levels.

我觉得正是这些帮助了我很大的成长。

And that's what I feel like helped me a lot to develop.

你好，欢迎回到《有目的》节目。

Hello, and welcome back to On Purpose.

这里是我说话给那些寻找、创造并践行人生目标的人的地方。

This is the place where I speak to people searching for, creating and living their purpose.

如果你认同我所做的事情，请订阅、评分并评论这个节目。

If you believe in what I'm doing, please subscribe, rate and review this show.

这对我来说意义重大。

It would mean so much to me.

本期节目嘉宾是世界上最好的网球运动员，诺瓦克·德约科维奇。

This episode is with the best tennis player in the world, Novak Djokovic.

诺瓦克和我实际上是在Instagram上认识的。

Novak and I actually connected over Instagram.

我注意到他一直在关注我的作品，观看我的视频，于是我给他发了私信，我们立刻产生了共鸣。

I noticed he'd been following my work, watching my videos and so I sent him a DM and we had an instant connection.

2018年12月，我有机会去他和他了不起的妻子住在摩纳哥的家拜访，这次采访就是在那里录制的。

Last December in 2018, I got to spend time with him and his amazing wife in Monaco where they live and this is where we recorded this interview.

他的背景令人惊叹，展现了每个人都有机会成为变革者。

His background is incredible and shows how anyone has the opportunity to become a change maker.

我们不仅谈到了网球，也不仅限于运动员的身份，而是深入探讨了他的成长经历和心理。

We go beyond tennis, We go beyond the athlete, deep into his upbringing and psychology.

作为一个人的诺瓦克·德约科维奇，比作为运动员的他更加令人钦佩，我非常感激能称他为朋友，我迫不及待想让你了解他的心态和他所追求的使命。

The human Novak Djokovic is even more impressive than the athlete and I'm so grateful to call him a friend and I can't wait for you to learn about his mindset and the mission that he's on.

欢迎来到节目。

Welcome to the show.

祝你享受本期节目。

Enjoy the episode.

大家好。

Hey, everyone.

非常感谢你再次回来参加这个特别特别的节目。

Thank you so much for coming back for this very, very special episode.

我由衷地感到荣幸和感激，能够向大家介绍我们的下一位嘉宾。

I'm genuinely so honored and grateful to introduce our next guest.

他不仅是世界排名第一的网球选手，还拥有14个大满贯冠军头衔，其中包括四个温布尔登冠军。

Not only is he the number one tennis player in the world, he has 14 grand slam titles, including four Wimbledons.

但除此之外，他极具灵性，是一位了不起的疗愈者和变革者，正在世界上做着许多了不起的事。

But on top of all of that, he's extremely spiritual, an incredible healer, transformer and someone who's doing so much great work in the world.

我有幸通过Instagram和WhatsApp逐渐了解了他。

I've had the pleasure of getting to know him over Instagram and WhatsApp.

今天，我终于能和他面对面坐下来交谈，但早在那之前，他的能量、谦逊而优雅的气质就已经深深吸引了我来到摩纳哥。

And today I get to sit down with him for the first time, but he's definitely someone who's attracted me here to Monaco through his energy and through his incredibly humble and graceful spirit.

所以，诺瓦克，能和你在一起，我感到无比荣幸，我的朋友，

So, Novak, it is an absolute pleasure being with you my friend,

而且

and

我通过Instagram感受到你的能量，现在在你面前我也能真切地感受到，我真的相信我们是被某种力量吸引到一起的。

I feel your energy over what's happened Instagram, I feel it in front of you right now, and I really believe that we've just been pulled together.

太好了。

So, so good.

你专程来看我，我真的非常感激。

I mean, you so much coming to see me here.

我真的很荣幸，正如你所说，社交媒体是我们建立最初联系的平台，但当我观察你、了解你所做的一切、分享你的理念时，我立刻就与你产生了共鸣，你的信息也深深打动了我身边的人，今天能和你在这里相聚，简直像梦想成真。

I'm really honored, and it's, as you said, social media was the platform through which we established the first connection, but I feel like watching you, and what you do, and sharing your message, I felt connected with you instantly, and your message deeply resonates with me, with people that are close to me, And it's a dream come true to be with you here today.

不，你才是最温柔的人。

No, you're the sweetest man.

我真心觉得，当你和任何人——所有正在听的人——我都强烈推荐这一点。

I genuinely feel that when you have a good and anyone who's listening, I highly recommend this.

如果你在网上和某人建立了良好的连接，尽快把这种联系带到现实生活中吧。

If you have a good online connection with someone, take it offline as quick as you can.

是的。

Yes.

把它变成面对面的交流。

Like turn it into face to face.

那就是我看到我们如此美好地连接在一起的时候。

And that's what I saw that we were connecting so beautifully.

我记得你第一次对我说的一句话是：更高的力量正在将我们连接在一起，更高的力量在我们之间促成这种联结。

I remember one of the first things you said to me was higher forces are connecting us like higher forces are between us getting connected.

当你对我说这些时，我立刻觉得我必须见到你。

And when you said that to me, I just felt I have to meet you.

没有必要让这段关系只停留在线上。

There's no need to keep this relationship online.

没有必要只让它停留在这里。

There's no need to just have it here.

如果这个人真的相信我们之间有更深的联系，那就让我们见面吧。

If this is someone who truly believes there's a deeper connection here, let's get together.

让我们见个面吧。

Let's see each other.

所以非常感谢你给我这个机会来拜访你。

So I'm so grateful that you opened up this opportunity for me to visit you.

非常感谢，我也真心感激，并且深感荣幸你们特地从洛杉矶远道而来，这是一段很长的旅程。我觉得我们都有着共同的愿景和对世界的同情心，尽管我是运动员，但我不喜欢像社会那样给自己贴上运动员的标签。

Thank you very much, and I'm really grateful that, and genuinely, you know, honored that you guys came all the way from LA, you know, it's a long trip, and I think we, you know, we all share a common kind of vision, and compassion for the world, and we, I think we all interact with the world in very similar ways, even though we, you know, I'm an athlete, but I don't like to categorize or label myself as an athlete, you know, as society likes.

我认为我们的价值远不止于此。

I think we expand much more than that.

如果使用得当，社交媒体和互联网是非常好的平台，它让我们得以连接，才有了今天的相聚。不久前我还在Instagram上给你发过消息，因为我是你的粉丝，我一直关注着你的动态、你的能量，以及你传播和分享的一切。所以我很开心能深入交流这些在网球赛事中通常不会被问到的话题。

Social media and internet is great if you use it in the right way, so I feel like it's a great platform, and it got us connected, and we're here today, not a while ago I sent you a message on Instagram, because I'm your fan, I follow, of course, I follow your message, and I follow your energy, and everything that you've been spreading, and sharing with people, so I'm just happy to get deep, and talk about, you know, things that I usually don't get asked on the tennis tournaments.

所以这真的很令人兴奋。

So it's really exciting.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

而这正是我欣赏你的地方。

And that's what I love about you.

这就是为什么我为所有正在聆听和观看的人感到兴奋，因为你不仅仅是一名运动员，我之前对你说过，你远不止于此，你拥有更多可以奉献的东西。

That's why I'm excited for everyone who's listening and watching is that you aren't athlete but what I was saying to you earlier is you are so much more and you have so much more to give.

你在球场上付出了如此多的努力，但我欣赏的是，你也是一个内在的运动员——你在进行内在的修炼，真正专注于自我成长、自我疗愈和自我提升。

You've worked so hard on the court but what I love about you is that you're also an inner athlete like you're doing this inner work and you've really focused on growing yourself, healing yourself, working on yourself.

那么今天，让我们深入探讨这一切。

So let's dive into all of that today.

让这次访谈成为你可以畅谈一切对你重要事物的机会。

Make this the interview where you get to talk about everything that's important to you.

而这正是这个播客最初诞生的原因。

And that's why this podcast actually started.

去年我参加了一个活动，汤姆·布雷迪在我之前发言，他接受了一位体育记者的采访，而这场会议的主题其实是关于构建有意义的人生。

I was speaking at an event last year and Tom Brady was speaking before me and he was interviewed by a sports journalist and the conference was actually about building meaningful lives.

因此，他们邀请我来谈谈这个话题。

So I was asked to speak about that topic.

汤姆在我之前发言，采访者问他一个问题，而汤姆开始谈论他的家人。

Tom was speaking before and the interviewer asked him a question and Tom started speaking about his family.

他开始谈论自己作为父亲的角色。

He started talking about being a father.

他谈到了许多美好的价值观和责任，以及随着运动生涯自然接近尾声，自己正在如何成长。

He started talking about all these beautiful values and responsibilities and how he's growing now that his sports career is coming to a natural end etc.

而那位体育记者却对他说：‘汤姆，别谈这些感性的东西了。',

And the sports journalist just said to him, they said, Tom, leave all this soft stuff.

我们来聊聊体育吧。

Let's talk about the sports.

我为他感到很难过，因为我觉得他真的在努力打开心扉，但那位体育记者却几乎扼杀了这一切，只说：我们只谈你的冠军戒指吧。

And I felt so bad for him because I just felt like he was really trying to open up his heart and the sports journalist was almost just squashing all of that and saying let's just talk about your rings.

就是只谈奖牌。

Like let's talk about the medals.

所以我想要打造一个平台，让你这样的人，还有音乐、媒体、电影、影视界的所有人，都能真正来谈谈你更深层的一面和真实的心声。

And so I wanted to build a platform where people like yourself and people from music, media, movies, film, everyone can actually come and talk about your deeper sides and your real heart.

所以今天，我希望你能感到非常自在，能够做到这一点。

So I want you to feel really comfortable to be able to do that today.

我非常

I am very

真的，

much and

你绝对是极少数我关注的人之一，我可以和你分享这个信息，我真心这么认为，因为——我不是想用负面的方式评价社会，我不做评判，我不喜欢评判，我喜欢的是，你知道，仇恨这个词，或者类似的东西，尊重每个人，我也尊重我们这个时代，作为人类，我们的社会所处的位置，这背后是有原因的，我们只能经历这个发展阶段、思考和进化。我花了很长时间才真正达到这种理解，因为在我性格塑造和精神成长的过程中，以及开放自己对不同维度和自我觉察、自我关怀的视野时，我常常感到孤独，你知道，我觉得我所做的一切不被理解，尤其是在我的圈子里，不仅不被理解，还不被接受，这更糟糕，因为那样你就会被贴上“异类”的标签，你知道，在群体中，但我仍然想打网球，仍然留在那个运动领域、那个生活领域中，我没有后悔，恰恰相反，我非常幸运能做我热爱的事。我四岁就开始打网球，而我的家人并没有任何网球传统，所以这纯粹是命运的指引。

you're definitely one of the very few people that I'm following that I can share this message with, and I truly mean that because and I don't mean that in a bad way for the society, I'm not judging, I don't like the judgment, I like that you know the word hatred, or anything like that, respect everyone, and I respect also this kind of moment in time that we as people are, you know, and our society is where it is with a reason, and we just have to go through that stage of development, think, and evolution, and it took me time to really, I feel like come to that understanding in a way, because I was also for many years through my character building process and spiritual development, and kind of opening my mind to different dimensions and horizons of self awareness, and self care, I was just feeling a lot of times lonely, you know, and I just felt like what I was doing was not understood, especially in my world, and not just understood, but it was not accepted, which was even worse, because then, you know, you're labeled as a kind of like a black sheep, you know, in the herd, and but I still wanted to play tennis, and still stay in that sport, in that you know field of life, which I have, and I'm not you know regretting, contrary, I'm so blessed to do what I love, and I've started playing tennis when I was four years old, and my family did not have any tennis tradition, so it was literally a sign of a destiny.

在我父母餐厅前有三片网球场，位于塞尔维亚一个叫科波尼克的小山村里。我父亲是职业滑雪运动员，是一名滑雪教练，他就是在滑雪坡上认识我妈妈的。你知道，这真是个有趣的故事，她说，说说吧，说说吧。

Three tennis courts in front of my parents restaurant, in a small mountain place in Serbia, called Koponik, and my father was a professional skier, he was a skiing instructor, that's how he met my mom, on the skiing slope, and you know, it's a funny story, you know, she kind of like, Tell us, tell us.

她正在滑雪，然后摔倒了，他就在那儿，说：‘我需要帮忙吗？’

She was skiing, and then she fell, and then he was there, and he's like, I need any help.

他没有故意绊倒她，我

He didn't trip her I

我觉得我可以帮你，他可能把整个事情都安排好了，你知道，但就是这样他们相遇了，六个月后他们就结婚了，而那时我妈妈已经怀上我了，一年后他们在相遇的那座山上开了家餐厅，餐厅是家庭收入的来源，所以我们经常待在那里，因为我们住在离那里三小时车程的首都贝尔格莱德，我在那里上学，我有两个弟弟，马可和豪尔赫，一个比我小四岁，另一个比我小八岁。

think I can help you, and he probably organized the whole thing, you know, but you know, that's how they met, and six months later they got married, and I was already, my mom was pregnant with me, and then a year later they opened a restaurant in the very mountain where they met, and the restaurant was the business that generated the budget for our family, so we spent a lot of time there, because we lived three hours by car away in the capital city of Serbia, Belgrade, where I went to school, and my two younger brothers, I have two younger brothers, their names are Marco and Jorge, one is four years older, younger than me, and the other one is eight years younger than me.

他们俩都打网球，但后来都放弃了，走上了不同的道路。

They both play tennis, but they stopped, and they went different ways.

马尔科是我的二哥，他住在西班牙，仍然坚持打网球，因为他非常热爱这项运动，现在是一名儿童网球教练，通过这项运动传播爱。而豪尔赫正在读书，并自己创业，他今年23岁，每次看到他在过去两年里独自取得的成就，我都忍不住要掐自己一下。这就像我们之前谈到的，关于我的孩子和靛蓝儿童，那种从上方传递下来的、新一代的能量、意识与觉知，而我在弟弟身上看到了这些特质。他天生就具备这种多任务处理的能力，能如此成功地应对各种事情，同时依然保持快乐，这真的令人惊叹。

Marco is my middle brother, he lives in Spain, and he still stayed in tennis, because he just cares about it a lot, and he's working as a tennis coach with young children, and you know spreading love through that sport, and Jorge is doing studies, and doing his own, setting up his own business, and he's 23, and I have to kind of pinch myself, you know, every time I see what he has done in the last two years by himself, and this is like, we talked about, you know, my children and the indigo children, and that kind of like a new wave of energy, and consciousness, and awareness that we're receiving from above, through children that already have what we don't have, and that's what I see in my brother, you know, and he's been born with this capacity and ability to just multitask, and deal with things so successfully, and still be happy, and it's quite amazing.

所以，回到我的故事，当你是一名职业运动员时，一切都关乎输赢，对吧？

So, you know, going back to my story is, when you are a professional athlete, it's all about winning or losing, right?

我不把失败或失利看作是负面的东西，而是视之为等待我去学习的一堂宝贵课程。

I don't see losing or failure as such, I see it as another great lesson, that awaits for me to learn from.

你从小就是这样吗？

Did you always have that, even when you were young?

不，不是的。

No, no.

正如我所说，我经历了自己的成长与蜕变，而我很幸运，刚开始打网球时，就遇到了一些真正非常有智慧的人，他们既懂网球，也懂人生。

I just, as I said, I went through my evolution, and I was fortunate really, that when I started playing tennis, I ran into, and came across some really, really knowledgeable people about tennis, and about life.

尤其是有一位女士，她的名字叫叶莲娜·根奇奇，她已经不在了，于2012年去世，她是我网球上的‘母亲’。我的父母为此投入了大量精力和努力，而在我成长的90年代，我们正经历两场战争。

In particular, one woman, and her name is Yelena Gencic, she's not with us anymore, she passed away in 2012, she was my tennis mother, and so my parents invested a lot of energy and efforts, and in those times during the 90s when I was growing up, we had two wars.

不幸的是，那场战争摧毁了整个南斯拉夫地区，因为当时南斯拉夫是一个由六个不同国家组成的强大国家，如今这些国家都已独立，我来自其中之一——塞尔维亚。从1991年、1992年一直到2000年，我们一直遭受制裁，人们不得不排队购买面包和牛奶，以及最基本的生活必需品。而在1999年，塞尔维亚连续两个半月，每天每夜都遭受轰炸。

We had unfortunately a war that broke down the whole Yugoslavian region, because it was a big Yugoslavian country, very strong, made of six different states, I mean countries that are right now independent, I'm coming from one of them, which is Serbia, and then during the 90s, from like '91, '92, all the way till 2000, we had embargo, so people waiting in line for bread and milk, and like absolutely most necessary things, and then '99 we had, in Serbia, had bombings for two and a half months, every single day and night.

我当时就在那里，我的家人每天都在，连续两个半月，我们每晚都被警报声和头顶飞过的飞机惊醒，那太可怕了，令人恐惧，这绝对是我们经历过的最糟糕的事情——看着飞机在头顶盘旋，不断投下炸弹，医院、一切都被摧毁了，许多无辜的人丧生。

I was there, my family was there every single day, we woke up every night for two and a half months, because of the alarm, and because of the planes flying over us, and it was devastating, it was frightening, it was the worst thing that definitely we ever experienced, you know, seeing planes over your head, and just dropping bombs, and you know, hospitals, and everything, it was terrible, many innocent people died.

幸运的是，我没有失去任何亲近的亲人，但我认识一些失去至亲的人，那种伤痛会伴随你一生。

Thankfully I didn't lose personally anyone that is very close to me, but I know people that lost their loved ones, and that's a scar that stays with you forever.

这段记忆将永远留在我心中，但最初，我像我国家的大多数人一样，感到想要复仇。

So this memory stays, and will stay with me forever, but at the beginning, I felt like probably most of the people in my country, I felt I want revenge.

你知道，我心想：这些人凭什么轰炸无辜平民？

You know, I felt like who are these guys to bomb innocent people?

这到底发生了什么？

What the hell is going on?

我当时才12岁，我记得那段时间日日夜夜都待在那儿，因为学校停课，我的十二岁生日是在白天过的，我们只能躲在避难所里，躲了大约一两周后，我们决定：好吧，我们就继续过自己的生活吧，管它会发生什么，如果被炸到，那就炸吧，我们能怎么办呢？我记得我十二岁生日那天，网球俱乐部的孩子们在唱歌——因为我们没去上学，整天都在打网球，所以对我们来说反而像种解脱，他们唱着《生日快乐》歌，可就在这时，一架飞机飞过头顶，我脑海中浮现出自家房子被炸弹四处炸开的画面，太可怕了，但与此同时，随着我逐渐成长，内心也在变化，我觉得我的父母在这件事上帮了我很多，他们告诉我：我们不能因为某些个人、团体或机构的暴行，就去谴责整个民族或所有人。

I was 12 years old, and I remember I was there day and night, and I celebrated my twelfth birthday during the day because we didn't go to schools obviously, and it was just hiding in shelters and everything, then we just, after a week or two hiding in shelters, we just said, okay, we're just gonna, you know, go about our life, and that's it, you know, we're not gonna care what happens, if we're hit, we're hit, you know, what we can do, I mean, and so I remember on my twelfth birthday, kids were singing, my friends at the tennis club because we spent a lot of times playing tennis, we didn't go to school, so for us it was great, and they were singing the happy birthday song, and there was a plane flying, and I have this image of my house playing, and just kind of dropping bombs everywhere, and it was terrible, but at the same time, I felt like as I was kind of growing, you know, inside out as well, I felt, and I think my parents helped me a lot with that, is that they, you know, we can't judge the whole nation or everyone for the actions of certain individuals or certain groups or institutions or whatever that decided to bomb our country and just kill innocent people.

我们不能因为这些行为就去责怪所有人，正是在那时，我开始转变，我彻底原谅了所有做过这些事的人和事，但你不能忘记，正如我说的，那会像一道伤疤永远留下，但它也带来了生命中许多宝贵的价值和深刻的感恩。

We can't judge everyone for that, you know, and that's when I kind of like shifted, and I just, I write, you know, this moment absolutely forgiven everyone and everything that has done that, but you cannot forget that, you know, you cannot forget that it stays as I said as a scar, but it has on a brighter side brought a lot of value to my life, and a lot of appreciation for the value.

我深深感激这段经历，我真的感激，因为它塑造了今天的我，塑造了我这个网球运动员。

I felt like this experience, I'm so grateful for this experience, I truly am, because it has helped me to shape me into the person that I am today, the player, tennis player that I am.

这让我对网球的成功更加渴望，促使我更加努力地工作、训练、提升自己，以便向世界证明，一个来自战乱国家的孩子，也能成为这项全球性运动中的顶尖选手。事情就是这样发生的，但所有这些经历都绝非偶然，我从不后悔，也不自怜，我只是觉得，好吧，这就是我的宿命，是我必须经历、必须活过的。如果我们不仅能作为家庭，更能作为人民、作为国家挺过这一切，那就没有什么能真正击垮我们了。历史上，塞尔维亚人和该地区的人们经历过无数战争与苦难，他们早已习以为常。因此，看到人们如此团结，真的让我感到欣慰。我前几天还和我弟弟、我妻子一起回顾那段时光，回忆1999年那两个半月里最深刻的画面。对我而言，当然首先是那个生日和避难所的故事，但还有一个画面让我记忆犹新：成千上万的人聚集在我们城市最重要的那座桥上，穿着印有靶心图案的T恤，每个人都在头上画出靶心，唱歌、欢笑，仿佛在向世界、向那些投下炸弹的人宣告：我们就是目标。

It has made me hungrier for the success in tennis, made me hungrier to work, train, build myself, so I can show to the world that a kid from, you know, war torn country can actually be the best in a sport that is very global, and so that's what happened, but all of these experiences have definitely been there for a reason, and I don't regret anything, I don't pity anything, I just feel like, okay, you know, that's my karma, know, that's something that I had to go through, and I had to live that, and if we manage to get through that, as not just as a family, but as people, as a nation, you know, there's not much that can break you down, so historically Serbian people, and people in the region, have had a lot of hard wars, and hardships, and they've been through that, so it was really nice to see the unity with people, and I remember one of the, I was actually talking the other day with my brother and my wife about still reflecting on that period, and what was the strongest image that stayed with us from this bondings of two and a half months in '99, and one of them for me was obviously the one that I explained to you with the birthday, and shelters, but there was one where I remember thousands of people gathering on the bridge, one of the most important bridges in our city, with shirts that have targets there, and everyone painted their heads in the shape of a target, and singing songs, and you know, kind of just enjoying, and having in a way showing to the world, and to whoever is kind of dropping bombs, that we are the target.

我们守护着这座桥，守护着这座城市，你们想摧毁它？那就先从我们身上踏过去。这不仅仅是勇气，更是那种团结的力量，那种在苦难时刻展现出的坚韧与能量。

So we are protecting this bridge, we are protecting this city, you know, if you want to crash it, you have to go through us, and it was, I think more than that, it was just that power of unity, you know, that energy and that strength that they just showed, the resilience in those moments of hardship.

这太不可思议了，伙计。

That's incredible, man.

你讲过这个故事，我听过。

That's such a I've heard you tell that story.

我跑题了，偏离了你的问题。

I'm sidetracked from your question.

不，不，不，

No, no, no,

但我很高兴。

and I'm glad.

不，不，我很高兴你讲了，因为我以前就听过这个故事。

No, no, I'm glad you did because I've heard that story before.

很高兴那些之前没听过这个故事的人现在有机会听到了。

I'm glad that everyone who hasn't heard that story before has an opportunity now.

这之所以如此美好，是因为地球上大多数人都没有经历过这样的事。

And the reason why it's so beautiful is because probably like most of the planet does not experience that.

这真是太极端了。

That's pretty extreme.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Right.

所以对你这样的人而言，从如此极端的环境中走出来，尤其是你提到的，你最初的反应是复仇，但你却能将这种复仇转化为韧性。

And so for someone like you to come from that extreme and especially what you said, your initial response was revenge for you to be able to transform that revenge into resilience.

这太了不起了，因为如果只是沉浸在痛苦和怨恨中，会容易得多，所以这真的……

That's incredible because it would have been so much easier to just have that pain and have that unforgiveness and so it's There

我读过一个很棒的故事。

was a great story that I've read.

我肯定在社交媒体上很受欢迎。

I'm sure it's quite popular on the social media.

大家都在分享这个故事。

Everyone is sharing it.

讲的是蛇和锯子的事。

It was about the snake and saw.

好的。

Okay.

我不知道你有没有遇到过。

Don't know

你有没有看过这个故事。

if you've came across it.

告诉我。

Tell

吧。

me.

这其实是个真实故事，那条蛇进了卡宾顿的商店，当它慢慢爬行时，被一台锯子夹住了，锯子割到了它，但蛇根本没意识到发生了什么，于是它去咬那台锯子，结果反而让自己伤得更重。

And it's, you know, the snake It's a true story actually, the snake came into the, you know, Carbington's shop, and as it was kind of going, and it got caught by a saw, and the saw kind of cut it, and the snake didn't realize what was happening, so it went to bite the saw and it hurt itself even more.

所以蛇并不明白发生了什么，就开始绕着锯子转圈，想通过缠绕来窒息它，以为那台锯子在攻击它。

So the snake didn't know what was happening, so it started going around the saw in order to, you know, suffocate it, thinking that saw is attacking it.

于是它是在自我保护，最后蛇死了。这其实映射了人生，我们经常因为某些人而生气或沮丧，以为我们想伤害他们，因为我们感到受伤，但最终伤害的却是自己。这个道理深深触动了我，我觉得这在某种程度上概括了我的成长历程——我该如何应对那些在我生命中意义重大的境遇和事件，比如战争和艰难时期。那确实是我在人生和职业生涯中最关键的阶段之一，我曾亲身体验过在家只剩十美元、和父母一起养三个孩子，不得不排几个小时的队只为买一块面包，无法环游世界打网球——网球是一项昂贵的运动。

So it was, you know, protecting itself, and finally snake died, and this kind of translates into life, and it's so many times that we get angry or upset, you know, with some people thinking that we want to hurt them because we feel hurt, but it finally we're hurting ourselves, and it was such a deep message that I kind of resonated with really, and I think that kind of sums up my evolution in a way, and my growth mentally of how, you know, I should deal with these particular circumstances and events that have been quite significant in my life, and you know, the wars, and those times of hardships were definitely one of the most significant times of my life, and my career, where I experienced what it feels like to literally have $10 at home in the apartment with my father and my mother with three children to feed, and having to wait in the line to get piece of bread for hours, and not being able to travel around the world to play tennis, and tennis is an expensive sport.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

你知道，买球拍、网球、教练、场地都需要钱，所有这些开销，而说到底，正如我所说，这段经历为我的人生增添了光明和价值，因为我觉得经历这一切让我更坚强，同时也让我更感恩，因为我真正体会到了两种极端：如今我在社会、在体育领域取得了巨大成功，能负担许多东西，我为此感到无比感激，也深感幸运。

You know, you need money to pay for the racket, for the tennis balls, for the coach, for the court, so all of these things, know, and I think in the end of the day, as I said, it brings light and value to my life, because I think going through all of that has made me stronger, but at the same time made me more grateful, because I understand the both extremes, so to say, because today I really enjoy so much of success in this, you know, society, in the sport, and I can afford many things, and I'm really, really grateful for that, and blessed.

但我曾经历过完全相反的境遇，这种人生故事真的丰富了我。

But I've been on the so opposite I think that storyline is really something that enriches me.

绝对是的，兄弟，你的人生故事是对这个世界多么美好的启示。

Absolutely man, and your life story is such a beautiful message to the world.

这是对世界极好的启示。

It's a great message to the world.

这简直太不可思议了。

Like, it's it's it's incredible.

而且在我看来，你也是把生活本身当作一种启示在践行。

And I'm glad that I see when from the way I view it, you you live it like a message too.

这跟你个人无关。

It's not about you.

这就是为什么我和你在一起时，感觉这根本不是关于你。

That's that's why I feel when I'm with you that it's not about you.

不是说我做了什么。

It's not like I did this.

这其实是一个故事，一个传递给世界的讯息：任何身处如此贫困境地的孩子或人都能真正改变自己的人生。

It's it's actually a story and a message to the world that, you know, any child, any person who is in such abject conditions can actually transform their lives.

嘿。

Hey.

我是How To Money的乔尔和马特。

It's Joel and Matt from How To Money.

如果你的新年目标是终于理顺财务状况，我们全力支持你。

If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back.

物价依然高企，经济形势也动荡不定。

Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place.

但2026年是你该有意识地行动、取得实质性进展的一年。

But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress.

没错。

That's right.

对。

Yeah.

每周我们都为你解析与你金钱相关的大事，指出最值得关注的问题，以及那些能带来巨大改变的小举措。

Each week, we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference.

自信地开启新的一年。

Kick off the year with confidence.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或你常用的播客平台收听《How to Money》。

Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

谢谢，谢谢，我只是想分享一下我的经验，我从不希望别人觉得我在说教或类似的事情。我只是觉得，我的经历帮助我在职业和私人生活中取得了一些成就——如果你愿意这么称呼的话——那就是，每件事都有它的时间。

Thank you, thank you, and I just feel like the message I can share from my experience, and I don't want ever for people to feel that I'm preaching or anything like that, I just feel like my experience has helped me to reach, you know, certain success, if you want to call it, you know, in both professional and private way, is that there is always time for everything.

而且，我自己也在不断学习如何保持耐心，如何协调生活中的各种事务，如何为最重要的事情腾出空间，那就是我的家庭、我的成长，以及不断的平衡。

And, you know, I'm learning myself even today how to be patient, how to coordinate certain things in my life, how to create space for the biggest quality time that I can have with my priorities, which are my family, which is my growth, and a constant juggle.

我真心相信平衡，但我认为我们永远不可能达到一个可以宣称‘我已经平衡了’的状态。

I truly believe in balance, but I don't believe that we can ever reach a stage and our point where we can say I'm in balance.

我同意。

I agree.

你或许可以处于平衡之中，但下一刻你就可能不再平衡，因为这就是生活，一切都在变化，不断发生。

You can be in balance, but the next moment you're not in balance, because that's life, and everything is moving, and it's happening.

所以，我觉得正是通过网球，我学到了人生中最重要、最艰难的教训，也体验了那些情绪。对我来说，网球场依然是一个能让我真正成长的场所。

So that's why I feel like, and in through tennis, I've learned my, you know, biggest and hardest lessons in life, and I've experienced those emotions, and for me, you know, tennis court is still a field where I have a chance to grow really.

当我不在网球场时，我发现自己更容易完成日常想达成的目标；但当我站在球场上时，我就把它当作一个挑战自我、挑战自尊的平台。比如，我依然会在球场上发脾气、摔拍子、大喊大叫、骂脏话。我知道你在家从不骂人，你立下这个誓言真让我佩服，真想向你讨教怎么做到的。可每当这种事发生，我立刻就会想：天啊，我怎么又这样了？

When I'm not on the tennis court, I find it much easier to accomplish certain things that I want to on a daily basis, but then tennis court I use as exactly that platform that challenges me and challenges my ego, so I still have for example outbursts on the court, I break a record, I scream, I curse, I know you don't curse at home, find that amazing that you took that vow, you gotta teach me how to do that, and when that happens, instantly I feel like, oh my God, why?

我做了什么啊？你知道，我有两个孩子，世界上还有许多孩子在看着你、模仿你。你的一举一动都在传递某种信息，所以我总是提醒自己，要尽量做自己最擅长的事，但要带着尊严、带着风度，始终让内心的声音提醒你：此刻正有成千上万的孩子在观看你的比赛，像海绵一样吸收着你所说的每一句话、所做的每一个动作。但即便如此，我依然会失控。

What did I do, you know, and I have two children, you know, many children around the world are watching, and you know, seeing what you're doing, and imitating you in a way, so you're sending that kind of message, so I try always to have that in the back of my mind, and you know, subconsciously like, okay, try to do what you do best, but do it with dignity, do it with style, do it with always having inner voice telling you there's thousands of children around the world watching you play right now, and absorbing like a sponge every move, everything you say, everything you do, but it's I still do it.

我仍然会经历这种情绪爆发。

I still go through this outburst.

我一度对自己感到失望。

I felt disappointed with myself for a while.

哇。

Wow.

就是因为这个。

Because of that.

我真的觉得自己背叛了自己。

I really felt like I was betraying myself.

我无法做到自己原本打算做的事，后来我学会了放手，明白了生活中每件事都有其时机。

I was not managing to do what I intended to do, and then I learned about surrender, and then I learned about there is a time for everything in life.

我们之所以必须走好每一步，才能到达顶峰，无论你如何定义自己的顶峰，我后来明白了，我必须接受、拥抱、疏导这种情绪，并认识到我仍需努力，要一直工作到生命的最后一刻，对此我感到欣慰。

There is a reason why we have to take every step of the way in order to reach the top, of in whatever way you feel that top is for you, and then I understood that, you know, I have to accept, I have to embrace, I have to channel it, and understand that I still have to work, and I have to work all the way to the last day that I breathe, and I'm happy with that.

我真的觉得自己在那个方向上迈出了积极的一步。

I really feel like I managed to take that positive leap in that direction.

你之前已经提到过几次了。

You've touched on it a few times then.

我想深入探讨一下。

I want to dive into it deeply.

你提到了成功、达到顶峰。

You mentioned success, reaching the top.

世界看到了你的成功。

The world sees your success.

世界看到了你的成就。

The world sees your achievements.

但在诺瓦克·德约科维奇的眼中，在你自己的眼中，到目前为止，从你的角度来看，你最大的成功或成就是什么？

But in Novak Djokovic's eyes, in your own eyes, what's been your greatest success, your greatest achievement so far, in your perspective?

这是个好问题。

It's a good question.

我最大的成就是我的开放心态。

My greatest achievement is my open mind.

我认为，以开放的心态去看待和对待生活，能够帮助你自身所有的自然过程茁壮成长、脱颖而出，让你拥抱生活的自然流动——在这个过程中，你必须成长、发展和学习。

I feel that with an open mindness type of perspective and approach to life, you help all the natural processes in yourself to flourish and to excel, and you're embracing the natural flow of life where you have to evolve, and you have to develop, and you have to learn.

如果非要简短地定义它，我会说那就是开放的心态。因为我感受到，无知、封闭和人们固有的某些信念是如此强大，以至于你可能一生都未曾真正敞开心扉去接触世界，去了解那些能丰富你生活、让你更充实、更快乐、获得内心平静与情绪平衡与稳定的事物。而我认为，拥有开放的心态，就是在帮助你自己，让你既能接收，也能给予，因为宇宙的能量必须流动。如果缺乏开放的心态，一切都会停滞——无论是健康、事业，还是生活中的其他方面，都会变得僵化。我也曾经历过这些，我不希望别人以为我无所不知，我只是在分享我成长过程中的体验，因为我确实亲身经历过：我感受过怨恨，感受过报复的念头，感受过仇恨，我们都经历过这些情绪，作为人类，我们都会遭遇这些情感。但我相信，通过训练、重复和自律——正如运动教会我的那样——你真的可以实现生命中任何你真正渴望和追求的目标。

If I have to define it that kind of shortly, I would say it's just open mind, because I feel the ignorance, and the closed mindedness, and certain convictions that people have are so strong, that you know, you go throughout your whole lifetime without really allowing yourself to open up to the world, and learn about all these different cultures, and things that can enrich your life, and make you feel more fulfilled, and live a more fulfilled life, be more joyful, have that inner peace, and emotional balance, and stability that we all strive to, and I just feel with an open mind, you're just helping yourself, and you're able to receive kind of filter, and then give at the same time, because the Taurus field, everything has to flow, so that's how it flows, but if you don't have an open mind, then obviously everything closes up, whether it's health, whether it's profession, whatever it is in your life, it just kind of feels, and I was there, I was there, I don't want people to think that I know it all or whatever, I just feel you know, also that I'm sharing the experiences from my process, because I was there, as I said, I felt, you know, resentment, I felt, you know, feeling of revenge, I felt hatred, I felt all of that, we all, you know, go through that, we all human beings, we, you know, kind of, experience those kind of emotions, but I feel with training, and repetition, and discipline, that obviously sport has taught me so well, you can really reach anything that you truly want and desire in your life.

这种开放的心态是从哪里开始的呢？

And where did that open mindedness start?

你是什么时候开始意识到，封闭的心态在限制你，而开放的心态在拓展你呢？嗯，我

Like where did you start to notice that the closed mind was limiting you, and the open mind was expanding Well, I

说实话，我认为很早就开始了，从我四岁或五岁时萌生打网球的想法起，网球在我们家从来不是一项运动。

think very early, to be honest, ever since I kind of wished to play tennis, when I was four or five years old, and tennis was never a sport in our family.

我想，这也促使我的父母走出了他们的舒适区，踏入了对他们而言完全陌生的领域。我大约在四岁半、五岁左右开始打网球，之前我经常滑雪，我记得甚至在学会跑步之前，就已经和爸爸一起滑雪了。

I think it, you know, kind of helped also my parents to expand outside of their, in a way, comfort zone and going to the sport or field of life that is completely unknown to them in a way, and I think that I started playing tennis when I was four and a half, I think five years old, and before that I was skiing a lot, and I remember even before I started to run, I was already with my dad skiing.

他抱着我滑下山坡，所以对我而言，最初的运动是滑雪。

He was carrying me and going down the slopes, so the first port for me was skiing.

对。

Right.

直到我九岁左右，我还没真正决定是想滑雪还是打网球。

And until I was I think nine years old, I didn't really know whether I want to ski or play tennis.

我那时候也踢过一点足球，但主要还是在滑雪和网球之间犹豫。不幸的是，我们之前已经讨论过这些了，我记得有一天，我爸把我和我妈叫到一起，说：‘我愿意支持你人生中任何想做的事，我会一直在你身边，但你得告诉我，你到底想从事哪项运动？’

I was football, soccer a little bit there, but it was mostly about skiing or tennis, and unfortunately, I mean we've been through all this, and my father asked me, I remember that day when he sat me down with my mom, and he said, I am ready to support anything that you desire to do in your life, and I'm here for you, but you have to tell me if it's sport, okay, and what sport?

我说：‘好吧，给我一个重大的选择，我需要做个重大决定。’

And I said, okay, give me one big thing, I needed to, know, Big decision.

是的，我的意思是，然后你就给他选最好的那个。

Yeah, I mean, and then You give him the best one.

我一直在思考，然后我说，其实没花我太久时间，我想了想，只花了点时间考虑，但半小时后，我走到他面前说：‘我决定选网球。’

I was thinking, and then I said like, it didn't take me a long time, I thought, I said maybe just a little time to think, but then after half an hour, went to him and I said, it's tennis.

他说：‘好，那就打网球。’

And he said, okay, tennis it is.

然后，我想我们进入这个不舒服、未知的领域或人生阶段，让我们所有人都得到了成长，同时也遇到了一些导师和人物，他们在很多层面上对我产生了积极的影响。

And then, I think us kind of getting into this uncomfortable, unknown zone, or area, or field of life has allowed us to kind of expand, all of us, and also having certain mentors and people that have greatly, positively affected me on many levels.

我提过我的网球妈妈，这是我喜欢对她的称呼。

I've mentioned my tennis mother, as I like to call her.

我五岁、六岁的时候就认识她了，之后开始参加她举办的网球夏令营，那个夏令营从贝尔格莱德首都开到山区的科波尼克，大约六七岁时，我在贝尔格莱德上学期间也开始接受她的私人指导，她很乐意和我打球，因为她觉得我很有天赋。

I've met her when I was I think five, six years old, and then I started training with her tennis camp, summer tennis camp, that was coming from Belgrade, from capital city to Koponnik, this place in the mountains, and then when I was I think six, seven, I also started having some private lessons with her in Belgrade while I was going to school, and she was happy to play with me, because she felt like I was very talented.

后来她告诉我的父母：‘我真的觉得你们应该尽全力支持这个孩子打网球，因为我从没见过比他更有天赋的孩子，就连莫妮卡·塞莱斯都比不上——她可是当时世界上最好的网球选手，也是历史上最伟大的女子网球运动员之一，而莫妮卡正是她的弟子。莫妮卡出生在塞尔维亚，后来搬到了美国，现在住在那里。’我的父母一听，心想：‘既然这么有经验、懂行的人这么说，那我们当然应该支持孩子。’于是事情就这么定了。

And then she told my parents, she said, I really feel like you should try to give your best to support this child to play tennis, because I've never seen a bigger talent than him from Monica Seles, who was know, obviously the best tennis player in the world, and one of the best female tennis players of all times, and she was her coach as well, and because Monica was born in Serbia, and then she went to live in States where she is today, and of course my parents were like, well, if such an experienced and knowledgeable person about tennis says that, then you know, we should try to support our child, so that's what happened.

我记得当时我总趴在围栏边看网球训练和练习，爬来爬去，真的深深爱上了这项运动，非常热衷，而她教会了我一种关于生活的整体观。

I remember I was watching, you know, tennis practices and sessions on the fence, I was climbing, I was really really in love with the sport, was very passionate about it, and she taught me about holistic approach to life I think.

哇。

Wow.

早在七岁、八岁的时候，她就已经这样教导我了。

Already back then when I was seven, eight.

她真的教会了我如何思考学业成绩、我听的音乐、我的正念、观察力、专注力、善良，以及与人相处的方式。

She really taught me how to, you know, think about the grades in the school, the music that I listen to, the mindfulness that I have, the observation, the focus, the kindness, the relationship with people.

她和我的父母组成了一支团队，而我的父母，我真的很感激他们，因为他们很早就意识到导师的重要性，于是他们和她紧密合作。当然，我也从父母那里学到了很多，持续学习，同时也从我的‘网球妈妈’那里汲取养分，这让我变得开放、包容。不过，我也经历过一些阶段，经历了学习的过程和情绪的起伏。当我开始独自旅行时，这种感受尤其明显——直到十六岁，我都是和父亲一起出行，十七岁左右我才开始有自己的教练。那时，我和父母之间并没有深入交流，有些话题我想要倾诉，尤其是在青春期，你经历着那么多变化，而我全身心投入网球，几乎没有时间参与同龄人那些学校里的活动，因为我太专注于网球了，于是我就开始把很多心事都告诉我的教练。

She was working in a team with my parents, and my parents, you know, I'm really grateful for my parents, because they recognized the role of a mentor very early, so they kind of teamed up with her, and then, you know, I was learning a lot from my parents, obviously, and continued to learn, and from my tennis mother, so that has helped me to, I feel like, be open minded, and understand, but I obviously went through my phases, and you know, the process of learning, and dealing with those emotions, although I felt when I started traveling by myself, because I was traveling with my father until I was I think 16, and then six, 17, I started having my coach, and you know I didn't get too deep in the conversations with my dad and with my mom, and I felt there are some subjects that I want to talk about, and especially in puberty, and teenage years, you know, you're experiencing so many changes, and I was so much in tennis, that I didn't really have time for other, maybe school activities that my fellow friends and, you know, students were going through, because I was so much in tennis, and then I started sharing so much with my coach.

我记得我爸爸曾问我：‘你为什么不对我说这些呢？’

I remember my dad was like, why don't you share that with me?

我当时想，首先，我从未跟你分享过这些特定的话题和这类对话。

And I was like, because I don't feel, first of all, I've never shared that, those particular subjects and types of conversations with you.

我觉得我们在这一层面上无法产生共鸣，我们试过，但始终没有成功。

I don't feel we can resonate on that level, and we tried, but it never worked out.

但他理解我还需要有亲近的人，在不同层面上影响我，而这正是帮助我成长的关键。

So, but he was understanding that I also have to have, you know, people that are close to me and influence me on different levels, And that's what I feel like helped me a lot to develop.

哇。

Wow.

我注意到你的一点是，我也很想听听你的看法。

And one of the things I noticed about you is also, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this.

我觉得登上顶峰很难，但似乎在登顶后经历低谷或挑战，再重新爬起来更难，因为你已经体验过那种感觉了。

I feel like it's tough to get to the top, but it seems to be even tougher to get to the top, have a slump or have a moment of challenge and then try and get back because you've experienced something.

我知道你甚至把妻子对自我照顾的专注，以及她教给你或与你分享的日记写作，归功于你自己的成长。

And it's like, I know that you've even credited your wife with her dedication to self care and your work and what she's trained you or shared with you in journaling.

跟我们说说，你是如何在登顶后经历挑战，却依然能够重返巅峰的？每个人都在谈论‘不可能’的回归，但你却让它成为可能。

Tell us a bit about the process that you've taken to be at the top have challenges and then still come back because everyone's been quoting obviously having the impossible come back and but you made it possible.

当时在精神和心灵层面，你经历了什么？不仅仅是身体上的，而是精神和心灵上发生了什么？

What was happening mentally, spiritually for you, not just physically, but what was happening mentally and spiritually for you?

首先，我想反思一下‘不可能’这个词。

Well, of all to reflect on the impossible word.

你所说的‘我可能’，对吧？

In the word you have I am possible, right?

确实如此。

Absolutely.

我真的不相信有什么事情是不可能的。

So, truly, I don't believe in something is impossible.

我真的相信，正如我们之前讨论的，一切皆有可能。

I really believe, really, everything is possible, as we talked about it earlier.

我妻子是我很久以前的女朋友，从我18岁、她19岁开始约会，那时我们就认识了。我们通过网球相识，早在正式交往前就已经认识了四五年。后来她去意大利米兰留学，而我差不多在同一时间来到摩纳哥，追随当时的教练，并以摩纳哥为基地。她也来了，因为米兰离摩纳哥很近。一切就这样开始了。当她完成学业时，她本有很多机会发展自己的事业，但她为了支持我的职业生涯、实现我的梦想，也为了维系我们的关系，选择牺牲了自己的事业。我非常感激她为我们的关系、为我所做的一切，我也一直在向她学习，而且还会继续学下去。

My wife has been, you know, my girlfriend for a long time, ever since I was 18, she was 19, that's when we started dating, and she used to play tennis, and that's how we met, and we've known each other four or five years before we started dating, you know, through tennis, and then she went to study in Italy, in Milan, and I came at more or less the same time here in Monaco, to follow my coach at the time, and I started using Monaco as a base, and she came over, Milan is close to Monaco, so she came over, and that's how it all started, and when she finished studies, she was obviously, you know, thinking she had a lot of opportunities for her own career, but she sacrificed that in order to live my career, live my dream, in order to save the relationship in a way, so I'm very grateful for her, and what she has, you know, done for our relationship, and for me, and I've learned, I keep on continuing to learn from her so much.

她让我接触了瑜伽，哇。

She introduced me to yoga, Wow.

在她求学的时候，她是个狂热的读者。

Back in the days when she was studying, she is a huge reader.

她喜欢阅读各种各样的东西，也喜欢写作，一直坚持写日记。我记得小时候，从我的网球教练妈妈和父母那里，我学会了如何写作，把想分享的内容写在纸上。

She likes to read everything and anything, and she likes to write as well, and she was big on journaling all the time, and I remember when I was quite young, from my tennis mother, and from my parents, I learned how to kind of write, and have specific things that I want to share on the paper.

我确实这么做过，比如写下感恩的事之类，这感觉很好，但后来我放弃了。

I did it, you know, kind of like what I'm grateful for, and things like that, which was nice, but then I lost that.

很多年我都没再写过，是她提醒了我，于是我重新开始，感觉非常好，因为我感到自己释放了很多让我紧张的东西。

I didn't do it for many years, and then she reminded me of that, so I started doing it again, and it felt great, because I felt like I could release a lot of things that were tensing me up.

通过写日记。

Through journaling.

通过

Through

写日记、写作，没错。

journaling, writing, exactly.

但是

But

还有通过瑜伽，你知道，她是在学习期间因为压力太大而接触到瑜伽的，她整天都埋头在书本里学习，学生生活并不容易，所以她在寻找放松自己、获取更多能量的方法，而她又不喝咖啡或其他类似的东西，于是她接触了瑜伽，并且和我分享，于是我开始和她一起练习。

also through yoga, you know, she learned about it, because she was so stressed during her studies, and she spent the whole day obviously studying with books, and student life isn't easy, so she was looking into ways how she can relax herself, get more energy, and you know, she was not drinking coffee or any of these things, so she came into yoga, and she was sharing it with me, so I started doing it with her.

你知道，整个呼吸法、调息法、拜日式，从那时起我们就每天都会以某种形式练习瑜伽，而且她一直是我生命中非常重要的一部分，也是我成长的关键。我真正感激的是，不仅我们彼此深爱，而且非常坦诚和真实，更难得的是，宇宙总在我们生命某些阶段给予我们帮助，让我们处于相似的意识状态，从而能互相促进学习、在我们选择的领域更快成长。

You know, the whole, the breathing, the pranayama, the sun salutations, and ever since then we've been doing obviously some form of yoga on a daily basis, and you know, she's been a very, very significant internal part of my life, and my evolution, and what I'm really grateful for is that, not only that we, you know, truly love each other, and we are very transparent and honest, but also that we have help from the universe to actually be in a very similar state of consciousness in certain phases of our lives, so we can help each other learn better, and grow faster in certain areas that we choose, that are part of those particular periods.

所以，我认为她也会同意，四年前我们成为父母时，生活彻底被颠覆了。

So, I think she would agree that when we became parents, four years ago, that has completely shifted our world, you know, upside down.

在那之前，我们虽然也有灵性追求，但相比之后的经历，还只是很基础的层次。我们真心相信，我们的孩子是我们的主人和老师，他们来到这个世界是为了给我们带来功课，帮助我们更深刻地理解自己，看清自己需要改进的地方——这和主流社会认为‘我们要教育孩子’的观点恰恰相反。

Up to that moment, we were also spiritual, but still quite basic comparing to what has happened after that, and we truly believe that our kids are our masters, and our teachers, and then they come to this life to bring lessons for us, and bring help for us to understand a lot of things about ourselves on a deeper levels, and what we have to work on, which is quite contrary to what in a way society thinks, which is like to teach them.

当然我们也在教育，但我经常和她讨论这一点。现在我们有一个一岁的女儿，我之前提到过，她是个疗愈者，真的就是，她给这个世界带来了这种能量，她让我们的注意力瞬间提升到了前所未有的高度，关于意识、觉知的一切——甚至更甚。我们不禁感叹：天啊，还有另一个层次，还有另一个层次！我们彼此帮助成长。

We are of course, but you know, I've been talking with her a lot about that, and now we have a baby girl that is one year old, and I was mentioning she's a healer, she really is, and she brings that kind of energy to this world, and she has, I mean skyrocketed our attention for the moment, for you know, the consciousness, the awareness about everything, I mean, even more, and we're like, oh my God, you know, there's another level, there's another level, So we help each other grow.

我非常感激能和她分享我所有感兴趣的事情、我正在经历的一切，她始终是我可以依靠的肩膀，始终在我身边。

I'm really grateful that I can share with her literally everything, and anything that I'm interested in, that I'm going through, and she has been always the shoulder to lean on, and she has always been there.

在我职业生涯中经历艰难时刻时，比如最近我受伤，不得不暂停网球训练六个月，复出后我一直在质疑自己是否还应该继续在这个水平上打球，内心承受着巨大的压力，而她一直在我身边，帮助我克服这一切，当然，也伴随着我一些灵性导师的帮助，他们……

Tough moments for me in my career, when I was going through an injury recently, and I had to take six months break from the tennis, and then when I came back, I was questioning whether I should keep on playing on that level or not, and I was just going through hard work inside, and then she was there, and she helped me to overcome all of that, of course, alongside with help of some life spiritual teachers that I have that I

可以，是的，告诉我

can Yeah, tell

让我们稍微谈一谈。

us speak about, a little bit.

特别是有两位男士，何塞·佩佩·马兹和贾尔科·伊利奇。

Well, there are two guys in particular, Jose Pepe Maz, and Jharko Ilic.

何塞·佩佩来自西班牙，贾尔科来自塞尔维亚，我认为他们真的是我的精神和人生导师、我的师父，我从他们身上学到了很多。我想大概是2010年或2011年，我认识了贾科，也就是七八年前，我是通过我妻子认识他的，因为我的妻子有个朋友认识他，我们就是这样接触上的。

Jose Pepe is from Spain, and Jharko is from Serbia, and I consider them really as my spiritual and life teachers, my masters, that I've learned a lot from, and back in I think 2010 or '11, I've met Giaco, so about seven eight years ago, and I met him through my wife actually, because my wife had a friend that knew him, that's how we got into it.

他是一位灵气疗愈师，但远不止于此，他帮助我和我妻子进一步打开思维，理解如何与自己进行内在对话，因为我以前根本不知道怎么做。

He's a Reiki healer, but he's much more than that, and he helped a lot, both my wife and I, to again open our mind even more, to understand how we can have internal conversations with ourselves, because I didn't know how to do it.

我不知道如何表达自己的情绪，而我妻子在这方面比我领先，这正是我们关系中产生摩擦的原因——她试图引导我挖掘内心、多分享一些，但我做不到，因为我根本不知道如何表达。

I didn't know how to verbalize my emotions, and it's where my wife was ahead of me, and that's where we struggled in our relationship because she was trying to dig things out for me and make me share more, but I wasn't able to do that because I didn't know how.

她会说：‘跟我聊聊吧，你感觉怎么样？’

She's like, speak to me, what do you feel?

我说：‘我不知道，我有感觉，但我就是说不出来。’我觉得贾科在这方面帮了大忙。

I'm like, I don't know, I feel something, I just don't so I think Jacques was very helpful in that.

听起来每个人都需要这样的支持。

Sounds like everyone needs that.

每个人，是的，我的意思是每个人当然都需要这个，但我记得有一句很棒的话：当学生准备好时，老师就会出现，对吧？

Everyone, yeah, I mean everyone needs that, of course, but I think there's this great saying, know, when the student is ready, the teacher will come, right?

所以我意识到，我需要做的第一步，就是在内心深处下定决心：没错，这正是我心灵、灵魂和成长所需要的。

So I felt that the first initial step I needed to do, I needed to decide in my mind and internally that, okay, this is exactly what I need for my heart, my soul, for my growth.

这是我的首要任务。

This is the priority.

我必须学会管理自己、管理情绪，不仅要成为一个更好的网球运动员，更要成为一个更好的人。

I have to learn how to manage myself, my emotions, how to not just to be a better tennis player, but to be a better human being.

于是，老师自然出现了，之后我的觉知和对世界的观察力也开始扩展，然后我遇到了佩佩，他不仅是我的兄弟马可的亲密朋友，也是他的灵性与人生导师，他们住在同一个地方。

So then the teacher appeared obviously, and then after that obviously I start to expand my awareness and you know observation of the world, and then I run into Pepe, who is very close person and also a spiritual life teacher to my brother Marco, and they live in the same place.

实际上，我的兄弟马可正是因为佩佩才搬去西班牙生活的，佩佩的人生哲学就是爱与和平，他把这种爱与和平的感知带入了我们的生活，让我们真正理解它们的意义。起初，我其实并不支持我的兄弟，因为他在比我之前就开始了这段与佩佩共同学习的旅程，还搬去西班牙，只为离佩佩更近——因为他内心深处觉得，这是他必须面对的重要课题，而我当时完全无法理解。

Actually Marco, my brother went to live in Spain because of Pepe, and Pepe's whole philosophy of life is love and peace, and he brought that kind of energy into our lives, the perception of love and peace, what it really means, and at the beginning I was actually not really supportive, I must say, my brother, because he started doing that before me, he started going through this whole process of learning with Pepe, and he moved to Spain, so he can be closer to him, because he felt, you know, deep inside that that's something that is very important that he has to address, and I just didn't get it at that time.

我当时想，你知道的，你得现实一点，毕竟你打的是职业网球，光靠爱与和平是不行的，你得回去训练，得有竞争心态，如果在球场上满脑子都是爱与和平，对手会把你打得落花流水，这在体育竞技中就是现实。

I thought, well, you know, you have to, you know, because he was playing professional tennis, and it's like, you can't really, you know, just love and peace, you know, you have to kind of like go back, train, this mindset, if you're love and peace on the court, the other guy will beat you, and this is what it comes down to in sports.

但他却说：听着，我明白，但请相信我，我必须走这条路，我就是感觉这是我的成长。

And he was like, listen, I understand, but trust me, I have to go through this, and I just feel that this is my growth.

我当时并不理解，但我被佩佩吸引，因为我觉得他的能量非常奇妙，你永远不可能对他生气。你和他交谈时，他总是微笑着，即便我们进行艰难的对话，他也始终微笑、传递爱意，因为他内心一直在祈祷并为你输送爱。为此，他不断努力，至今仍在持续付出，付出了巨大的努力。而我当时并不明白他反复强调的‘内在工作’、‘内在成长’、‘内在工作’、‘内在成长’、‘普世之爱’究竟是什么意思。

I didn't understand it at the time, but I was attracted to Pepe because I felt that his energy was amazing, and you can never get upset with him, know, you speak to him, he's like you, you know, he always smiles and everything, you know, even when we had tough conversations, he always smiles and sends, because he always prays inside and sends you love, and for that he had to work and still continues to work, I mean immensely, and I didn't understand what he kept on emphasizing inner work, inner growth, inner work, inner growth, universal love.

我真的没有真正理解，但后来，这种能量吸引了我和我妻子，我们与佩佩、与我哥哥建立了联系。如今，在不同层面上，我们终于明白了他真正的含义，因为我们已经接纳了这种修行。

I really didn't really get it, you know, then, obviously, this whole energy attracted my wife and I, and we connected with Pepe, and with my brother, and on different levels, today, you know, obviously, we understand what he truly means, because we embraced that work.

是的。

Yes.

我们必须每天坚持。

And we have to do it daily.

是的。

Yes.

我想简要地反思一下这种内在工作，为了它的目的或目标。

And I just wanted to shortly reflect on that inner work for the purpose or goal.

直到不久前，我进行内在修行的目标还是网球。

My goal for the inner work up to not while ago was tennis.

内心的那种感觉，你可以称之为自我，它驱使我去做这些事，因为我觉得这能让我打得更好网球，但这种动机并不真正契合我。我过着看似成功的生活，却并不满足。我知道那里有问题，那种真相、本质，以及每天为自己、为作为人的成长而践行的意义，与我七岁起就梦想成为世界第一的渴望相比，显得微弱得多。

The feeling inside, you can call it ego, whatever has drawn me to that sensation of I need to do this because that will help me play better tennis, but it didn't resonate, something I was living a successful life, but not fulfilled life, if you know what I mean, and there was something wrong with that, just felt the answers of that truth and the essence and what it really means to do that on a daily basis for yourself and your growth as a human being and not just as a tennis player or a doctor or whatever, but it was weaker comparing to the other side which was since I was seven, dreamed of being number one in the world.

那就是我的抱负，是我一生的目标。

That's my ambition, that's my lifetime goal.

我必须实现它。

I have to fulfill it.

2011年实现后，我依然继续前行。

When I fulfilled it in 2011, I kept on going.

我想要更多的大满贯奖杯。

I just want to be more Slam trophies.

我想尽可能长时间地保持世界第一。

I want to be number one for as long as I can.

目标一直在推动我前进，但根据我的经验，你需要目标和方向，但也需要平衡那些真正最重要的事——那就是内在的修炼。

It just kept going, and I believe that from my experience, you need goals and objectives, you know, but you need to balance that with, you know, what is truly the most important work, which is the inner work.

是的。

Yes.

直到不久前，我其实还没真正明白，直到那时我才开始懂了，也才真正理解了Pepe的讯息。

I didn't get it up to up to not a while ago, to be honest, and that's when I started to get it, and that's when I started to understand the message from Pepe.

无论你做什么，都要带着兴奋、喜悦和热情去做，但同时绝不能忘记在那之前、期间和之后必须做的工作，那才是更大、更长久的工作，我现在真正理解了这一点。

He was, whatever you do, you do it with excitement, with joy, with passion, but at the same time, never forget about what you have to do before, during, and after that, which is a much, much bigger work, and longer work, now I do truly understand that.

所以对于正在听的任何人，如果你像我一样，还不明白。

So for anyone who's listening and they're like, Novak, I'm like you, I don't get it yet.

是的。

Yeah.

因为如今有太多人，我觉得灵性、能量这些词在网络上到处飞舞。

You know, because so many people today, I feel like spirituality, energy, all of these words are flying around the internet.

人们都在谈论它，但仍有太多人没有真正理解。

People are talking about it, but there's so many people that didn't get it.

用你自己的方式，用你看待它的方式，为我们解释一下。

Explain to us in your own way, in the way you see it.

什么是内在工作？你具体做哪些内在工作？

What is inner work and what inner work you do?

你之前说的在那之前、期间和之后所做的事，不仅帮助了你在网球上，还

What you were saying that before that during that after that has helped you not just in tennis, but

你在许多视频中如此精彩地探讨和反思了这些习惯和我们所拥有的成瘾问题。

you've talked so and reflected so wonderfully on this in so many of your videos about the habits, about addictions that we have.

一整天就这样过去了，我们甚至不记得当天的任何一个时刻，因为我们整个时间都被分散了注意力，所以你知道，如果我们被训练得容易分心，那么我们的生活就会如此展开。

The whole day passes by, we don't even remember a single moment in the day because we've just been distracted the whole time, so you know, if we are learned and trained to be distracted, that's how, you know, our life is going to unfold.

我们会变得分心，但如果我们训练自己保持专注和更有觉知，那么显然我们会将潜意识以及所有内在和外在的能量、自然和一切事物的注意力转向这一点。

We are going to be distracted, but if we train ourselves to be present and more aware, then obviously we're shifting the attention of the subconscious and all the internal external energies and nature and everything into that.

简单来说，就是改善习惯，对吧？

In a simplified way, work on the habits, right?

我的意思是，我仍然有一些习惯需要改进，比如手机，对吧？

I mean, have still some habits that need working on, you know, for example, the phone, right?

手机如此令人上瘾，你会沉迷于Instagram，顺便说一句，我非常喜欢它，太棒了。

That is so addictive and you get into Instagram that I, by the way, love, great, fantastic.

这是我们连接的方式。

It's how we connect.

这是我们过去连接的方式，是的。

It's how we connected, yeah.

但如果你任由它成为你的主宰，那么事情就会变成这样：你会分心，感到精力不足，缺乏内心的平静，情绪烦躁，呼吸短促，诸如此类的各种状况，这些都会影响到你的人际关系，影响你在工作或其他任何事情上的表现。对我而言，我会在内心思考：在网球场上，我做对了什么？我该如何把这种状态带到球场之外呢？

But if you let it become your master, then that's how it's going to be and you're gonna be distracted, you're going to feel lack of energy, you're going to have feel a lack of inner peace, you're going to feel upset, you know, you're going to have a short breath, you know, all these different things, and that reflects on relationships, that reflects on, you know, your performance at your work or whatever you're doing, and for me, try to think inside, okay, what am I doing right on the tennis court, how can I translate that off the tennis court?

很有趣。

Interesting.

在网球场上，我做得对的是完全专注，身心合一，有纪律，朝着目标努力，有条理地准备自己。

And on tennis court, what I'm doing right is complete, 100% focus and presence of mind and body and everything, discipline, working towards objective, organized, preparing myself.

这是一件大事。

This is a big thing.

我觉得，如果你没能做好准备，那你就是在为失败做准备，对吧？

I feel, you know, if you fail to prepare, you prepare yourself to fail, right?

所以，准备是非常重要的。

So, preparation is a huge thing.

我的意思是，在我的网球世界里，这对我帮助极大，我不想具体量化，但可以说，你赢得比赛或取得任何成功的80%到90%，其实都发生在你踏上球场之前。

Mean, at least in my world for tennis, it has helped me a lot because I don't want to put a number on it, but let's say 80% to 90% of the match that you won, for example, or any success that Before you you step on the court.

没错。

Exactly.

是的

Yeah.

没错

Exactly.

你怎么做作业。

How you do your homework.

就我而言，当然要全面打磨自己的优势和短板，从身体、心理、情绪和精神上为即将到来的比赛做好准备。

In my instance, you know, obviously working on all my strengths and weaknesses, preparing myself physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, for the match that is coming up.

我有一套完整的短期和长期计划。

I have the whole short term and long term plan.

我怎样才能以最短的时间从这里到达那里？

How can I get from here to there in the shortest time?

诸如此类的事情，当然还要深入了解对手、比赛场地、观众氛围、天气状况等等，这些都需要你系统性地做好功课，才能在比赛前奠定胜局——而真正的胜利，远不止比赛本身，而是赛前那百分之八十到九十的准备工作。

Those type of things, and then, you know, obviously doing your homework on the guy, the opponent that you're playing against, where you're going to play the stadium, the crowd, the weather, you know, it's really whole homework that you have to do in order and before you get then you win the tennis match, and then it's not only about the tennis match, it's eighty, ninety percent of the work that you do prior to that.

所以这就是为什么我相信，准备是一件非常重要非常重要的事情。

So that's why I believe, you know, preparation is a big, big thing.

培养习惯方面，科学表明，你需要二十天左右，也就是两到三天的时间，才能把坏习惯转变为健康习惯。

Working on the habits, the science says that you need twenty, what, two or three days that you can, you know, shift, you know, from bad habit to a healthy habit.

所以我们需要坚持、自律，还需要重复。我还很喜欢听布鲁斯·利普顿的观点，他谈到潜意识，对吧？潜意识可能控制着我们日常生活的95%。如果我们能用那些能帮助我们卓越成长、过上理想生活的信息来滋养潜意识，那么这一切就会发生，因为你的潜意识并不知道什么对你好或坏，它只知道你告诉它什么，以及你种下的种子。

So we need persistency, we need discipline, you know, need repetition, and Bruce Lipton that I also like to listen to a lot, he's talking about subconscious, right, and how subconscious is controlling probably 95% of our everyday life, so if we can feed our subconscious with the information that is going to allow us to excel and to live the life that we want to, then that's what's going to happen, because your subconscious doesn't know what's good for you or bad for you, it just knows what you tell it, and the seeds that you plant.

所以他提到，有两种方式可以‘破解’你的潜意识：一种是催眠，这发生在你七岁之前；另一种就是重复。

So he was talking about, you know, there are two ways to kind of hack your subconscious, which is hypnosis, which happens from, you know, up until you're seven years old, and then repetition.

因此，我和我妻子对学龄前教育和儿童早期发展非常热衷，因为直到六七岁，都是大脑发育最迅猛的阶段，这时你人生的根基和基本框架就已奠定，布鲁斯对此的阐述非常优美，也让人信服。

So that's why, I mean, my wife and I are very passionate for the preschool education and early childhood development, until you're six or seven years old, that's when it's most vast brain growth, and that's where you know the fundamentals and the foundation of your life is set and that's where, you know, Bruce was talking about it really beautifully and it made sense.

而七岁之后，靠的就是重复和自律。

And then after you're seven, it's repetition, it's discipline.

我每天在某个时间点之后，就会关掉所有手机。

Okay, I'm switching off all my phones after a certain hour.

我会做我的祈祷，因为我相信一个无形的世界。

I'm doing my praying work because I believe in an invisible world.

量子科学已经证明，最遥远的两点在瞬间其实是一体的，我们都已验证过这一点，因此你只需要真正相信，才能实现它——你的注意力在哪里，能量就流向哪里。我认为这一切都始于开放的心态、始于提问，而不断问自己问题总是非常有益的。

Science proves quantum science talks about it, where the most distance points are actually one in a split second, and we all have proven that, and so you just need to really believe it in order to achieve it, you know, where your attention goes, the energy flows, and I think it all starts with open mind, with a question, and it's always so great to ask yourself questions.

我是谁？

Who am I?

我为什么在这里？

Why I'm here?

我想做什么？

What I want to do?

我想成为什么样的人？

What I want to become?

把所有这些问题写下来，通读一遍，用心去思考，不管用什么方法，你都必须直面这些问题。

What I want, you know, just all these questions put on the paper, write it down, go through it, you know, in your mind through that, whatever your method is, but you just have to address it.

如果你不去面对这些问题，你就会重复过去的行为，最终得到你并不想要的结果。

If you don't address it, you're going to go about the same things that you went about, and then you're going to get the same outcome that you don't desire.

所以我觉得，对这些事情保持这种觉察，能帮助你学习，而我也每天从你身上学到很多，因为我知道我一直在关注你的作品，那里有太多精彩的观点，我觉得现在正是我们拓展意识、更接近真实自我的时候，因为自人类存在以来，这颗星球上最重要的两个问题，就是：我们是谁？我们为什么在这里？

So I feel like that kind of awareness about that just helps you know helps learn, and you know I'm learning from you so much on a daily basis as well because you know I obviously follow your work, there are so many great messages out there, and I feel like this is the time where we can expand our consciousness and get closer to what who we are, because you know the two most important and all this probably questions on this planet ever since the existence of humans is, you know, who we are and why we are here.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

所以我认为，追求真理的这一部分也非常重要。

So I think also the truth seeking element and part is also quite important in that.

我的意思是，我把自己视为一个追求真理的人。

I mean, I consider myself a truth seeker.

我喜欢不断深入挖掘，再深入，再深入，去理解我们是谁，我们为何存在，这是否是一个星球，是否是一个领域，它到底是什么，这是否是一个矩阵，还是不是，我认为重要的是去探索这些问题，做你的研究，深入挖掘，因为我认为这一切最终都归结于你是否是自己的主人，所以如果你是自己的主人，就能以你想要的方式采取行动，而不是像我非常欣赏的吉恩·奎克所说的那样，他谈到了恒温器和温度计。

I like to try to dig even deeper, and deeper, and deeper, and understand who we are, you know, why are we here, is this a planet, is this a realm, what is it, you know, is this a matrix, is it not, you know, I think it's important to and ask these do your research and dig deep into that, because I think it all comes down to, you know, whether you are your own master or not, so I think if you are your own master, then it allows you to take actions the way you want them, rather than I love Gene Quick, that I also like very much, and he talks about the thermostat and thermometer.

所以，不要做恒温器，而要做温度计。

So, don't be the thermostat, but be the thermometer.

设定你的温度，你设定房间的温度，按你想要的方式设定，而恒温器是被动反应的，我认为这蕴含着极高的智慧。

Set your temperature, you set the temperature of the room, and you set it up the way you want it, and thermostat, you set it, you have so to it's reactive, and I think it's such a great wisdom.

是的，老兄，你之前说的那番话我非常喜欢，真是绝佳的建议，我希望所有在听的人都在做笔记，你之前说的那番话我特别认同，你说很长一段时间你都认为自我是敌人，是的。

Yeah, advice man, I loved what you were saying earlier, that's great advice, and I hope everyone's listening is taking notes, but that, what you said earlier I loved, you said that for a long time you believed ego is the enemy, Yes.

但现在你开始明白，其实自我需要被友善地对待。

And then now you've started to understand that actually the ego has to be befriended.

是的。

Yes.