托尼·罗宾斯：摆脱停滞感的最快方法！使用这个六步决策框架迈出第一步，以清晰的状态开启2026年

这只是为了创造足够有说服力的理由，即使现在可能很困难，也要坚持下去。

It's just creating enough compelling reasons to follow through even though it might be tough right now.

但还有第三步。

But there's a third step.

在你做出决定并承诺之后，还需要坚定的决心。

And after you decide and commit, there's resolve.

对你来说，缺少的是决定、承诺和决心中的哪一步？

What's the missing deciding commit and resolve for you?

情感上的区别在哪里？

What's the emotional difference?

对我来说，根据我听到的理解，决心就是你自己的体验。

Resolve to me at least from the way I'm hearing it is Just in your own experience.

是的。

Yeah.

我有一种感觉，我确信自己做出了正确的决定，因此可以重新承诺、重新连接，或者意识到现在是该转变的时候了。

There's a sense of, I feel a sense of confidence that I made the right decision so I can recommit and reconnect, or I get a sense of now's the time to pivot.

因此，这是一种决断：我是继续走这条路，还是我们要转向？

And so there's a resolution of, am I continuing down this road or are we gonna pivot?

至少对我来说是这样

At least how I

我理解的。

hear it.

我完全理解，你在评估新出现的情况。

I I I understand completely you're evaluating what something new came.

但对我来说，决心就是你那一刻所做的事情，已经完成了。

But to me resolve is whatever you did in that moment, it's done.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

我知道吉姆·罗恩曾经告诉我，他向一群年轻人谈论决心时，我记得有个九岁的小女孩。

I know Jim Rohn had told me one time that he was speaking about resolve to this audience of young people, and I think it was like a nine year old girl.

他说：‘谁来给‘决心’下一个定义？’

He said, who's got a definition of resolve?

这个小女孩站起来说：‘我认为决心就是向自己承诺永不放弃。’

And this young girl stood up and she said, I think it's promising yourself you will never give up.

太棒了。

Great.

这是一个很好的例子。

That was a beautiful example.

当你下定决心时，你就内心平和。

When you resolve, you're at peace.

做决定就像一场战争。

Deciding is like a war.

对吧？

Right?

承诺需要能量，并像你所说的那样着眼于未来。

Committing requires energy and taking into the future as you described.

然后，决心，真是太神奇了。

And then resolve, it's amazing.

就好像已经完成了。

It's like it's done.

它在我内心已经完成了。

It's done in me.

它可能在世界上还没完成，但在我内心现在已经完成了。

It may not be done in the world, but it's done in me now.

我会找到方法，或者创造方法。

I'll find the way or I'll make the way.

没有任何不确定性。

And there's no uncertainty.

没有恐惧，没有焦虑，就像当你达到那种心理和情感状态时，那就是你取得成果的地方。

There's no fear, there's no anxiety, there's no it's like when you get to that psychological emotional place, that's the place in which you get results.

如果你观察运动员，运动员就是这个的完美例子。

If you look at an athlete, athletes are perfect examples of this.

我敢打赌你一定见过这样的时刻：你看着一位运动员走上罚球线，或者看一名橄榄球踢球手准备射门，你心想：他肯定要失误。

I'm sure you've seen a time where you watch an athlete walk up to shoot a free throw or let's say a kicker in football and you think, he's gonna miss it.

是的。

Yeah.

然后他们却成功了。

And then they do.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你怎么知道他们会失误呢？

How did you know they're gonna miss it?

是的。

Yeah.

是身体语言，他们的头部和眼神所处的位置。

Physiology, the the where their head was, where their eyes were.

是的。

Yes.

你能从他们的状态中看出缺乏信心。

You could see in their state a lack of certainty.

当你看到像勒布朗这样的人带球直接冲向篮筐，从别人头顶跃过并投进时，他并不是临时决定的。

When someone when you see like, you know, somebody like LeBron take the ball to go straight in and go over some top of somebody's head and put it through, There is not he didn't just decide.

他并不是仅仅做出了承诺。

He didn't just commit.

他已经下定决心，全身上下都已坚定。

He has resolved that every ounce of his being That's

球会往那个方向去。

where the bull is going.

球一定会进那里。

That's where it's gonna go.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为，总结一下，没有比决策能力更重要的技能了。

So I think, just to summarize, think there isn't a more important skill than decision making.

如果你不擅长，你只需要开始做些决定就行了。

And if you're not good at, all you gotta do is start making some decisions.

我的问题是，除了今天听我们说之外，如果这件事没给你带来别的收获，那你能做出哪一个微小的决定，虽然你知道自己应该做，但这个决定会降低你生活的质量？

What would you my question would be, instead of just listening to us today, if nothing else came out of this, what's one little decision you could make that would decrease the quality of your life that honestly you know you should make?

也许你只是因为不方便而拖延。

Maybe even putting it off because it's inconvenient.

你生活中还有很多其他压力大的事情，或者你并不太舒服。

You've got lots of other stressful things in your life or you're not really comfortable.

但如果你真的下定决心并坚持执行，你已经决定并付诸行动了，对吧？下定决心了，那么一年后你会在哪里？

But if you're really committed and you follow through, you just decided committed and followed through, right, resolved, where would you be a year from now?

你的生活会变成什么样？

What would your life be like?

我会做一个小决定，今天你会采取什么行动？

And I would take a little decision and what action would you take today?

现在就做出这个决定。

Make that decision now.

如果你有胆量，那一个重大的决定是什么？

And then if you're bold, what's a big decision?

一个艰难的决定是什么？

What's a tough decision?

你一直拖延的那个决定是什么？你知道它是对的，可能关乎一段关系。

What's a decision you've been putting off or you know and you got it's right, you know, it might be about a relationship.

你知道吗？

You know?

可能关乎你如何对待孩子。

It might be about how you're dealing with your kids.

可能关乎你的事业、生意或财务。

It might be around your career or your business or your finances.

但生活就是这样变得更好的。

But that's how life gets better.

这就是你开始创造生活，而不是仅仅管理境遇的方式。

That's how you start creating life as opposed to being a manager of circumstance.

我认为，当人们只是维持现状、管理他们的境遇、仅仅求生存时，他们是痛苦的。

And I I think when people are maintaining, when they're managing their circumstances, when they're surviving, they're miserable.

我们生来就是为了成长和付出。

Like we are made to grow and we're made to give.

当我们成长时，我们就能付出更多。

When we grow, we have more to give.

因此，我认为决策是通往这一目标的途径之一，当然也是其中之一。

And so I think decision making is the pathway, one of them certainly to getting it.

是的，听你谈论这一点非常有力量，因为我觉得我们很多人犯的第二个错误是，做出决定后，我们希望这个决定能解决一切。

Yeah, it's so powerful listening to you talk about it because I feel a lot of us, the second mistake we make is that after we make a decision, we hope that that decision solved everything.

所以就像你做了一个决定，然后就想：好吧，我辞职了，或者我离开了那个人，或者我找到了新工作，这应该就能解决一切了。

So it's like you make one decision and then you're like, all right, well I quit my job or I left that person or I got a new job and that should solve it.

而现实是，你所说的，决策是一个持续的过程。

And the reality is what you're saying is no decision making is a continual process.

必须一次又一次地进行。

Has to happen time and time again.

你不能只做一次决定，就以为人生问题全解决了。

You don't get to make one decision and your life is solved.

没错。

That's right.

人生是由一路上大大小小的决定组成的。

Life is made up of lots of little and big decisions along the way.

你知道人们最大的问题是什么吗？

You know what the biggest problem is that people have?

他们以为自己不该有这些困扰。

They think they're not supposed to have them.

哦，对。

Oh, right.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

问题正是生活的标志。

Problems are a sign of life.

我记得我采访过，还有谁的名字来着？

I remember I interviewed, who else is name?

诺曼·文森特·皮尔博士。

Norman Vincent Peale, Doctor.

皮尔，就是那本《积极思考的力量》的作者，我32岁时读的。

Peale, who wrote the original Power of Puzzlinging book when I was 32.

他当时92岁，因为我事业在成长，他邀请了我。

He was 92, and he invited me because my career was growing.

他邀请我去多伦多，在他举办的一个活动上见他。

He invited me up to Toronto to meet him at an event he was doing.

所以我来到后台，我们提前聊了一个小时。

So I came backstage, and we spent about an hour in advance.

我记得我问他：我知道，我很好奇。

And, I remember asking him, I said, you know, I'm curious.

我说，你都这么大年纪了，为什么还继续参加这些活动？

I said, why are still doing these events?

他回答说：托尼，即使到了92岁，这里还是有一些消极的人。

He goes, well, Tony, there's still a few negative people around here At 92.

我说，想想92岁这个年纪，人类已经从马车走到了火箭时代。

I said, what's the most and think about 92, he's men's horse and carriage to rockets.

对吧？

Right?

你知道，从没有电脑到有了电脑。

You know, nothing to computers.

对吧？

Right?

他一生中的变化简直令人难以置信。

Just the the changes in his lifetime were just unbelievable.

我问，你认为人们最需要理解的是什么？

I said, what do you think is the most important thing people need to understand?

他说，问题的力量。

And he said, the power of problems.

我说，你这话是什么意思？

And I said, what do you mean by that?

他说，只有墓地里的人才没有问题。

He goes, well, the only people who have problems are in cemeteries.

我说，我觉得我好像在哪里听过这句话。

And I said, think I heard that somewhere.

他说，1947年我就说过这句话。

He said, 1947 I said that.

他说，但他们从没说完我的这句话。

He said, but they never finished my quote.

我说，只有墓地里的人才没有问题。

I said, the only people who have problems are in cemeteries.

所以如果你没有任何问题，最好跪下来祈求一些。

So if you don't have any, you better go to your knees and pray for some.

因为他说道，问题是生命的标志。

Because he said, problems are a sign of life.

而我发现，问题是在召唤我们。

And what I find is problems call us.

他曾经有一次坐在讲台上。

He he said he was sitting one time at this dais.

他在一个演讲讲台上。

He was at a speaking dais.

那就像一场午餐会。

It was like a luncheon.

他旁边坐着世界重量级拳击冠军。

And beside him was the heavyweight champion of the world.

那是四十年代的事了。

It was back in the forties.

对吧？

Right?

他说他看着他，他叫吉恩·塔尼，是个相当有名的人。

And he said that he looked at him, his name was Gene Tunney, pretty famous guy.

他说：‘吉恩，你怎么练出这么一身肌肉的？’

And he said, Gene, how do you get muscles like that?

吉恩说：‘你真的想知道，还是只是随口问问？’

And Gene said, do you really wanna know or you just ask him?

他说，吉恩心里想：‘我只是随便问问，但现在我真的想知道，因为他态度太认真了。’

And he said just told me in his head, he goes, I was thinking, I was just asking, now I really wanna know because he was so intense about it.

他说：‘不，我真的很想知道。’

He says, no, I really wanna know.

他说：‘每天我都对抗着难以置信的阻力，正是这种阻力塑造了这些肌肉。’

He goes, every day I push against unbelievable resistance and that's what sculpts these muscles.

就是这样锻炼肌肉的。

Like, that's how you build muscle.

他说，后来我久久思考这件事，他说，我想这就是我们精神成长的方式。

And he said, I thought about it a long time afterwards and he said, I think that's how we develop spiritually.

我们对抗困难，正是这些困难塑造了我们的灵魂。

We push against problems and that's what sculpts our souls.

所以我认为，与其说你不能有困难，不如称它们为挑战，这样感觉更好。

And so I think to think you shouldn't have problems, you can call them challenges, it feels better.

但生活中的这部分，是旅程的一部分。

But this part of life, it's part of the journey.

解决这些问题会让你更强大、更富有生机、更精神升华、更有人性、更富有同情心。

And solving them makes you bigger, more alive, more spiritually developed, more human, more caring.

你知道，痛苦和苦难，你不必长久忍受，但我们都将经历一些。

You know, pain and suffering, you don't have to suffer long but we're all gonna experience some of it.

对吧？

Right?

但决策是我们走出困境的方式。

But decision making is how we get out of it.

是的。

Yeah.

你说得太对了，因为当今最大的挑战之一就是过度思考。

And you're so right because one of the biggest challenges today is overthinking.

是的。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

我们接触到的信息更多了，或者我们这么认为，而且

We're exposed to more information or so we think and

是的。

Yeah.

我读到一项研究，说我们现在每天消耗72千兆字节的数据。

I was reading a study that was saying we now consume 72 gigabytes of data per day.

我们真正吸收了多少？

How much we have truly consumed?

吸收是另一种意义上的吸收，它是

Absorb is a different Absorb, it's

像是面对它一样。

like faced by it.

是的。

Yeah.

你觉得这很多吧。

And you think like that's a lot.

我记得以前能有一千兆字节的iPhone数据就很不错了，现在我们却在谈论每天72千兆字节的数据涌入。

I remember when you were lucky enough to get one gigabyte on your iPhone and now we're talking about 72 gigabytes coming Yeah.

所以，决策就像是能穿透这一切的箭矢。

At So decision making is the kind of arrow that cuts through that.

百分之百。

A 100%.

因为这是摆脱过度思考的唯一方法。

Because that's the only way to get out of overthinking.

是的。

Yeah.

所以如果有人陷入焦虑，只要他们听你的话，决定从这件事中做出一个选择，是的。

And so if someone's spiraling, if they actually listen to you and said, hey, if I just make one decision off of this Yes.

这实际上会为他们带来转变。

That will actually create a shift for them.

我也可以告诉你，在这样的对话中，要详细描述太长了，但我可以告诉你我是如何做重要决定的。

I can tell you too, it's too long in a in a conversation like this to describe in detail, but I can give you how I make important decisions.

请说。

Please.

我有一个六步流程。

I have a six step process.

如果人们想记下来，我称之为 O O C E M R。

And if people wanna jot it down, I call it o o c e m r.

这些是我所做事情的触发字母。

Those are the trigger letters for what I do.

O o c e m r。

O o c e m r.

我多年前开发了这个方法，因为当时我只有一家公司。

And I developed this years ago because I only had one business.

现在我很幸运。

Now I'm fortunate enough.

我拥有114家公司。

I have a 114 companies.

我们的业务规模超过100亿美元。

We do over $10,000,000,000 in business.

我没有商业背景。

I have no business background.

所有的决策、学习技能等等。

All decision making, learning skills, etcetera.

但很久以前，当我经营小企业时，这些决定非常艰难。

But way back then when I had a small business, these decisions were just it was tough.

它们是重要的决定。

They were important decisions.

感觉这些决定关乎企业的生死存亡。

They felt like they were life and death decisions for the business.

我知道，以我的聪明才智，身边有一群人会更好。

And I knew that knowing how smart I am, you're better with a group of people around you.

因为即使你掌握更多信息，他们也能提供另一种视角，你知道的。

Because even if you have more information, they have another perspective, you know.

于是我试图寻找一种决策模型，我想，所有的决策本质上都是价值观的澄清。

And so I was trying to find out a decision making model and I thought, well, all decision making is really value clarification.

比如，对你来说什么最重要？

Like what's most important to you?

你做出的决定，别人做出的决定可能不同，但也可能是对的，因为这关乎你最看重什么。

Like what you decide, what someone else decide may be different but may be right because it's about what do you value most.

对吧？

Right?

所以我想到，做决定时不应该从我可能有的所有情绪出发，比如焦虑、恐惧、兴奋或热情。

So I thought I should start with decision making not by all the emotion that I may have of either anxiety or fear or excitement or passion.

任何一种情绪都可能带你误入歧途。

Either one can lead you astray.

那我究竟想要什么？

It's like, what do I want?

目标是什么？

What's the outcome?

这是第一个要明确的。

That's the first o.

目标。

Outcome.

所以我得出结论，顺便说一句，我告诉人们：不要在脑子里做这个决定。

So I get pew and by the way, I tell people, do not do this in your head.

人们感到不知所措的原因是，他们太快地提出了太多问题来回答自己的头脑。

The reason people get overwhelmed is they ask multiple questions too fast to answer their heads.

比如，我该做什么？

Like, what am I gonna do?

我不知道该做什么。

I don't know what to do.

如果她这么说怎么办？

What if she says this?

如果他那样做了怎么办？

What if he did that?

但如果它没有那样做怎么办？

But what if it doesn't do that?

你一口气问了二十个问题，却没有足够的处理能力来回答它们，只会感到不知所措。

And you're asking 20 questions, and you don't have the processing power to answer them, you're just going overwhelmed.

放慢节奏

Slow it down

把这个写下来。

Write this down.

一次一件事。

Thing at a time.

对吧？

Right?

但不要从你害怕的事情开始。

But start not with what you're afraid of.

从你想要的东西开始，因为人类的神经系统就是如此设计的。

Start with what you want because that's how the human nervous system is designed.

它的设计是为了让事情发生和创造。

It's designed to make things happen and create.

所以如果你成为一个创造者，你就从‘y o’开始。

So if you become a creator, you start with the y o.

那么你的目标是什么？

So what are your outcomes?

大多数人难以做决定的原因就在于他们有多个目标。

And this is the reason it's hard to make decisions for most people is they have multiple outcomes.

他们想从同一个决定中达成所有目标。

They're trying to get from the same decision.

对吧？

Right?

他们想让每个人都开心，想赚一百万美元，还想拥有更多自由时间，所有这些都想同时实现。

They wanna make everybody happy and they wanna make a million dollars and they wanna have more free time, you know, all simultaneously.

所以你必须明确，这些目标中哪一个对你最重要？

So you have to say, which of those things is most important to you?

是自由时间吗？

Is it the free time?

是家庭时间吗？

Is it the family time?

是赚更多的钱吗？

Is it to make more money?

那么对你来说，什么最重要？

It so what's most important for you?

对吧？

Right?

所以我让人们把他们的目标写下来，他们通常很难做到，因为目标太多了。

So I have people write down their outcomes, and they're usually they're having a hard time, that's because there's multiple outcomes.

然后我还说，永远不要在脑子里想，因为你无法在脑子里处理所有事情。

And then I also say, don't ever do this in your head because you can't manage all your head.

一图胜千言。

Pictures worth a thousand words.

所以你要把目标写下来，然后按顺序排列。

So you write down the outcomes and then you put them in order.

接着写下原因。

And then you put the why.

因为原因才是最重要的。

Because the why is what matters.

比如，原因是什么？

Like, what is the reason?

情绪心态是什么？

What's the emotion mindness?

即使我说这是我想要的，我到底想从中学到什么？

What is it I'm even though I say this is what I want, what do I want out of this?

这能带给我什么？

What's it gonna give me?

这会带给我快乐。

It's gonna give me joy.

这会带来幸福、满足感和精神成长。

It's gonna be happiness, fulfillment, spiritual development.

那到底是什么？

What is it?

对吧？

Right?

所以现在，当你清楚知道自己想要什么以及想要的顺序时，这一点至关重要。

So now when you're crystal clear what you want and the order you want it in, and that's critical.

第一是什么？

What's number one?

你必须严格要求自己。

You gotta be rigorous.

现在你可以通过进入第二个步骤来做决定：你的选择有哪些？

Now you can make decisions by going in the second o, what's what are your options?

我总是告诉人们，一个选择就是没有选择。

And I always tell people one option is no option.

两个选择是困境。

Two options is dilemma.

你至少需要三个选择才算得上是真正的选择。

You need at least three choices to be a choice.

对吧？

Right?

当你有了三个选项时，通常会发现其实有四个或五个。

And so and when you get to three, you usually find there's four or five.

现在你可能不喜欢所有这些选项，但你不应该欺骗自己，说这是唯一的选择，那样会让你压力山大，或者认为只有这两个选择，那样你会陷入两难境地。

Now you may not like them all, but you shouldn't lie to yourself and say this is the only option that'll stress you out or these two are the only option, you'll get stuck in a dilemma.

所以我把所有选项都写下来。

So I write out all the options.

然后我进入OOC，也就是后果，这正是你做决策所要考量的。

Then I go to o o c is consequences, which is what you're doing the decisions for.

根据我目前所知，这些决策的利弊分别是什么？

What's the upside and the downside of each of these decisions to the best of my knowledge?

好处可能是这样和那样，结果可能是那样和那样。

The upside could be this and this, the outcomes could be that and that.

我已经完成了前半部分。

I've converted the first half.

明白吗？

Okay?

现在你知道自己真正想要什么，知道有哪些选择，也了解每个选择的利弊。

Now you know what exactly you want, you know what your options are, and you know upsides and downsides of each.

接下来我们将进入最后三个阶段。

So now we're gonna go in the last three stages.

我要进行评估、缓解和解决。

I'm gonna evaluate, mitigate, and resolve.

E，评估。

E, evaluate.

现在我要评估这些后果发生的概率。

Now I'm gonna evaluate what's the probability of those consequences.

因为你可能会觉得，天啊，如果这件事发生了，那就是世界上最糟糕的事。

Because you might have something that's like, oh my god, if this happens, it's the worst thing on earth.

但它的概率几乎为零，而你却因此焦虑不已。

But the probability is next to zero and you're all stressed out.

除非你评估了概率，否则你就是在浪费时间。

Unless you evaluate probability, you're wasting your time.

你可能会想，天啊，如果这件事成了，那将是世界历史上最棒的事，但发生的可能性却是零。

You might have some go, oh my god, if this works out, it's gonna be the greatest thing in the history of the world, but the likelihood of happening is zero.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

你不能让这些极端想法左右你。

You can't let those extremes get you.

所以通过评估现状，你开始看清了。

So you start to see by evaluating what's there.

接下来的两个步骤很快，就是缓解。

And then the last two steps are fast, it's mitigation.

缓解的意思是：我已经看清了自己想要什么，了解了各种选择，知道利弊，也明白了哪些情况更可能发生。

Mitigation means, okay, I've seen what I want, I know my options, I know the upside down, I know what's probable.

现在，我能不能把这个选项中的某些部分，和另一个选项结合起来？

Now could I take something from this option and mix it with this one?

有没有办法减轻负面影响？

Is there a way to mitigate the downsides?

而几乎总是有办法的。

And almost always there are.

在这个阶段，你的大脑会变得非常有创造力，因为你不再处于恐惧、不确定或焦虑中，因为你没有陷在自己的思绪里。

And at this stage, your brain gets really creative because it's not in fear or uncertainty or anxiety because you're not in your head.

它就摆在你面前。

It's right in front of you.

最后一部分是决心。

And the last part is resolve.

我给了你无数个故事。

And I gave you a million stories.

当时做已经太晚了，但我可以告诉你，我本人就因为一个基于这种方法做出的决定，赚了四亿美元。

Was too late to do, but I can just tell you, I've made personally $400,000,000 from one decision I made from this personally.

我只是想给你一个经济层面的见解。

I'm just I'm trying to give you an economic piece.

精神和情感上的价值是无价的。

What the spiritual emotional value has been on things like is priceless.

我可以诚实地告诉你，通过使用这个系统，我正在写一本名为《决策的力量》的书，因为我希望人们掌握这项技能。

And I can honestly tell you by using the system, I'm writing this book right now called The Power of Decision because I want people to have that skill.

我向每个人展示贝索斯的决策技巧。

And I show them everybody, Bezos decision making skills.

我教大家各种格式，但这是我自己的做法。

I I teach people everybody's format, but this is my format for doing it.

我发现这非常有价值，尤其是当你在决策过程中加入承诺和决心时，而不仅仅是做决定。

And I found it to be incredibly valuable, especially when you add commit resolve, you know, to it, not just decide to the process.

所以，我希望这对大家有帮助。

So I hope that's helpful for people.

这是一个很棒的系统。

That's a great system.

这是我听过的最清晰的解释。

That's the best way I've heard it explained.

那就是

That's

对。

right.

我非常欣赏这个模型，因为我觉得如今太多决策都基于这样的想法：只要你真的想要某样东西，去追求它、组织好、制定计划，你就能达成目标。

I really appreciate that model because I think too much of what decisions making is based on today is, well if you really want something and you go after it and you organize and you have a plan, you'll get there.

但其实等等，你根本没有评估过成功的概率。

It's like, well wait, mean, you didn't evaluate the probability.

你也没有从系统性的角度去看待它；另一方面，有人做出决定后，获得一些好的见解、建议或导师指导，然后就调整方向，灵活应对。

You didn't look at it from a systematic point of Or the other side of it is like, all right, you made a decision, you get some good insight, get some good advice, get some good mentorship, you pivot, you pivot.

但关键是，这样做能帮你节省大量时间。

But the point is you can save yourself so much time.

你说对了。

You got it.

通过你刚才分享的这种方式。

By doing what you just shared.

大量的时间。

Huge amounts of time.

大量的时间、金钱和精力。

Huge amounts of time, money and energy.

本周《亲爱的切尔西》，由切尔西·汉德主持，尼古拉斯·斯帕克斯做客。

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Nicholas Sparks is here.

我猜你一定收到很多反馈，说你树立的爱情和浪漫标准

I would imagine that you've gotten a lot of feedback about setting a standard of love and romance

一个

that a

很多男性可能都难以达到。

lot of men probably can't measure up to.

我在签售会上听过这样的故事。

I have heard such stories at my book signings.

对吧？

Right?

我的诺亚在哪？

Where's my Noah?

我的《恋恋笔记本》里的约翰在哪？

Where's my John from Dear John?

同时，在我的职业生涯中，我在签书排队时收到了七次求婚。

And at the same time, in the course of my career, I've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book.

你知道吗？

You know?

真的吗？

Oh, really?

到桌子跟前来。

To the table.

那个画着涂鸦的人跪了下来，我真为他感到难过。

The doodle dropped to his knees and I feel so bad for him.

我心里想，老兄，你可是在阿拉巴马州伯明翰的沃尔玛啊，你知道吗？

I'm like, dude, you're in a Walmart in Birmingham, Alabama, you know?

但这种事情确实发生了，而且你听到的这类故事远多于有人过来告诉你，我毁了男人的一生——对此我反而很高兴。

But it's happened and you get a lot more of those kinds of stories than people coming up and say, I've ruined I've ruined men for the for the rest, which I'm glad.

如果这种情况更普遍，我反而会感到难过。

I would feel bad if that was more common, actually.

不。

No.

你来找亲爱的切尔西就是为了这个。

That's what you come to dear Chelsea for.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

为了得到提升。

To get uprated.

听亲爱的切尔西说

Listen to dear Chelsea on

iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客，或你收听播客的任何平台。

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嘿。

Hey.

我是诺拉·琼斯，我非常热爱与人一起演奏音乐，因此我的播客《一起演奏》回来了。

I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back.

我会与来自各种音乐风格的音乐家坐下来，在亲密的环境中一起演奏歌曲。

I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting.

每一集都略有不同，但都涉及音乐和与我一些最喜爱的音乐人的对话。

Every episode's a little bit different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.

在过去的

Over the

两季中，我邀请了像戴夫·格罗尔、莱维、鲁弗斯·温赖特、雷米·沃尔夫、马尔克·雷比尔、梅维斯·斯台普斯等特别嘉宾，多得实在数不胜数。

past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Rufus Wainwright, Remy Wolf, Marc Rebier, Mavis Staples, really too many to name.

本季还有更多精彩内容即将推出，包括强大的迷幻二人组 Black Pumas、我老朋友兼长期作词伙伴杰西·哈里斯，以及传奇人物露辛达·威廉姆斯。

And there's still so much more to come in this new season, including the powerful psychedelic duo, Black Pumas, my old pal and longtime songwriting friend, Jesse Harris, and the legendary Lucinda Williams.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您收听播客的任何平台收听诺拉·琼斯的《Playing Along》。

Listen to Nora Jones' playing along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嗨。

Hi.

我是拉迪·德夫卢克亚，我是《一场很好的哭泣》播客的主持人。

I'm Radhi Devlukhya, and I am the host of A Really Good Cry podcast.

本周，我邀请了安娜·伦克尔，她也被称为“糟糕童年仙子”，是一位创作者、教师和引导者，帮助人们疗愈来自不安全或混乱童年的持久情感创伤。

This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the Crappy Childhood Fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods.

我们讨论了童年经历如何仍在我们的成年生活中显现，影响着我们的关系、反应，甚至影响我们对自己身体的感受。

We talk about how the things we went through when we were younger can still show up in our adult lives, in our relationships, our reactions, even in the way we feel in our own bodies.

安娜敞开心扉讲述了她自己的故事，她是如何察觉到自己陷入的模式，以及她是如何慢慢开始教导自己的身体：现在安全了。

And Anna opens up about her own story, what helped her notice the patterns she was stuck in, and how she slowly started teaching her body that it is safe now.

当我被袭击时，那非常偶然。

So when I got attacked, it was very random.

四个男人从车里跳出来，开始殴打我和我的……他们打碎了我的下巴和牙齿，我失去了意识。

Four guys jumped out of a car and just started beating And me and my they broke my jaw and my teeth, I was unconscious.

然后我醒了过来，大喊起来。

Then I woke up and I screamed.

我大喊是因为，尽管我不记得自己是谁，也不清楚身在何处，但内心有个声音在说：等等，别慌。

And I screamed because even though I didn't know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like, hold on, wait.

他们可能会杀了我。

They could kill me.

我不会让这种情况发生。

And I'm not going to let that happen.

我不会让这种情况发生。

I'm not going to let that happen.

我一定要挺过去。

I'm going to get through this.

我真的挺过去了。

And I did.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《一次很好的哭泣》。

Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

我本来想问你，托尼，你的思维如此有条理。

I was gonna ask you, Tony, you have such a systematic brain.

自从我向你学习、听你讲话以来，你的一切都如此注重流程，这正是我所喜欢的。

Like when I've learned from you, listened to you, everything is so process oriented, which I love.

但与此同时，你又拥有深厚的信仰和灵性，并且你把它展现了出来。

But at the same time you have this deep faith, this deep spirituality and you brought it out there.

你说过，我赚了四亿美元，但与此同时，情感和精神上的收益也是无法估量的。

You said, I made $400,000,000 and at the same time the emotional and spiritual benefits are off the charts.

对我来说， genuinely，因为如今我们都听到有人说，哦，你可以显化这个、得到那个等等。

To me genuinely because I think today we all hear about, oh, you can manifest this and you can get that and this.

我觉得你在两者上都采取了一种非常务实、以流程为导向的方法。

I feel like you have a really pragmatic and process driven approach to both.

信仰、能量、灵性如何与高度系统化、流程导向的方法相联系呢？

How does faith, how does energy, how does spirituality correlate with a very systematic process driven approach?

这是个很好的问题。

That's a great question.

没人真的问过我这个问题，这真好。

No one's really asked me that question, that's nice.

这其实也反映了你的特质，我认为你和我一样，都能看到两个方面。

It's a reflection of your qualities as well, which I think you look at both sides as well as I do.

我认为没有什么比精神、灵魂更重要的了，没有什么比你的精神成长更重要的了。

I think there's nothing more important than spirit, soul, there's nothing more important than your spiritual development.

其他一切都不过是笑话。

Anything else is a joke.

然而，也许最好的描述方式是把它看作是东方和西方。

And yet, maybe the best way to describe it is think of about it as east and West.

对吧？

Right?

我们都经历过这两方面。

We both have experiences of both.

我每年至少去一次印度，从二十多岁就开始去了，因为我对文化差异着迷。

I go to India at least once a year on average and I've been going since I was in my twenties because I was fascinated by the cultural differences.

而且，作为一个粗略的概括，东方更注重内在的发展。

And and as a gross generalization, the East is more about internal development.

如果你去瓦拉纳西，这是地球上最古老的城市之一，大约有3800年的历史，那里有火焰已经持续燃烧了整整38年，从未间断。

If you go to a place like Varanasi, which is one of the oldest cities on the planet, you know, 3,800 years old, they have fires that have been burning for thirty eight straight years nonstop.

对于不了解的人来说，在那种文化中，每个人对神或神的概念都有不同的理解。

And for people who don't know it, in that culture, you know, everyone has different perceptions of god or belief of what god is.

但在那种特定文化中，不管你是什么类型的印度教徒，如果有人相信你应该放弃所有衣物，只保留最起码的衣着。

But in that particular culture, it doesn't matter what kind of Hindu you are, if you there's some believe you should give up all your clothing, everything but your clothes.

有些人认为是研读《吠陀经》。

Some people believe it's studying the Vedas.

有些人认为是通过瑜伽。

Some people believe it's through yoga.

通往神的道路有多种多样，成千上万种方式。

Different ways to get to God, million different ways.

在那种文化中，神的数量超过三亿，每个人都有自己的个人神明。

And there's more than 300,000,000 different gods, your own personal god in that culture.

对吧？

Right?

非常不同。

Very different.

但他们相信，如果你在瓦拉纳西去世，这是你唯一能获得统一的，你就不会轮回，因为他们的信仰是轮回。

But they have a belief there that if you die in Varanasi, it's the only thing you have unified, then you don't come back because the belief is reincarnation.

所以他们希望，你知道，不要再来，那就是涅槃。

So they want to, you know, not come back, which would be Nirvana.

对吧？

Right?

他们点燃这些火。

And they burn these fires.

当有人去世时，无论付出什么代价，他们都想赶到瓦拉纳西，因为他们相信，如果在那里去世，就不会再轮回。

And when someone dies, they try to get to Varanasi no matter what they do because they believe if they die there, they won't come back.

这座城市充满了（这种氛围）。

And the the city is filled.

你去过那里，对吧？

You've been there, haven't you?

是的。

Yes.

嗯。

Yeah.

到处都是临终的人，却充满喜悦。

Filled with people that are dying and joyous.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我记得我们去过特蕾莎修女的机构，那里有一位老太太，个子小小的，快九十岁了。

Like, I remember we we we went to mother Teresa's facility and there's a woman there that was, you know, tiny little lady and she was like in her nineties.

我和她聊天，她说的英语很糟糕，但她气得要命。

And I was talking with her, she had a broken English with her, and she was mad as hell.

她快死了，却生气他们把她从街上捡回来并帮助她。

She was dying and she was mad they scooped her off the streets and they're helping her.

她来这里是为了死去，因为这让她非常愤怒。

She came here to die because this was her I mean, really pissed off.

对吧？

Right?

大多数美国人，你知道的，他们会火化遗体。

And then most Americans have you know, they burn the bodies.

我看着他们火化遗体。

I watch them burn the bodies.

我在这艘船上，我永远不会忘记第一次做这件事的时候。

I'm on this boat, and I'll never forget the first time I did this.

我看着一个小男孩，他正用一根看起来像树枝的东西翻动，那其实是他祖父的腿。

And I watched this little boy who's flipping this it looked like stick or twig and it was his grandfather's leg.

没有人哭泣。

No one is crying.

没有人感到悲伤。

No one is sad.

他们认为身体只是一件T恤。

They believe that the body is the t shirt.

烧掉它，它就消失了。

You burn it and it goes away.

因此，生命的灵性层面才是真正的重点，但人们却生活在贫困中。

So the spiritual side of life is all that is seen there, yet people live in squalor.

你来到美国，人们却因为汉堡上没加特殊的酱料而感到压力。

You come to America and people get stressed about they didn't get the special burger on sauce on their burger.

对吧？

Right?

你看到那些拥有巨大经济机会的人，却浪费了这些机会，不懂得利用。

And you see people that live with tremendous economic opportunity who spoil it and don't take advantage of it.

当人们在人际关系中得不到满足时，他们依然拥有巨大的经济机会。

And people have tremendous economic opportunity when they're not fulfilled in their relationships.

谁也不能说他们灵性不发达，但看看他们待人接物的方式，显然灵性并不发达。

They're not who's to say they're not spiritually developed, but looks on the outside by the way they treat people, they're not spiritually developed.

所以我不认为你必须在两者之间二选一。

And and so I don't believe you have to pick one or the other.

我相信它们是相辅相成的。

I believe that they go together.

我最初学习时，一直相信——不断听专辑，那是过去的我，还有磁带和开盘录音机，那是过去的我，各种教授和演讲者的八轨磁带，我只是全身心地沉浸其中。

I've always believed when I originally was learning, you know, constantly listening to albums, that's the old I am, and cassette tapes and reel to reels, that's old I am, eight tracks of various professors, speakers, I was just immersing myself in things.

我注意到，几乎每个人都专精于要么从哲学角度，要么从策略角度来看待它。

I noticed almost everybody specialized in either how I can look at it as philosophy or strategy.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

哲学至关重要。

Philosophy is critical.

它决定你生活的质量。

It determines the quality of your life.

它决定你是快乐还是不快乐，充实还是不充实。

It determines whether you're happy or not happy, fulfilled or not fulfilled.

策略是方法。

Strategy is how.

你该如何完成它？

How do you get it done?

策略至关重要，因为正确的策略能让你在事业、个人生活乃至健康上节省十年时间。

And strategy is critical because you could save a decade with the right strategy in business, in your personal life, your body.

错误的策略会让你生病。

The wrong strategy and you're gonna be ill.

对吧？

Right?

所以我很早就决定，你需要两者兼备。

And so early on I decided you need both.

因此我同时教授两者。

So I teach both.

我认为这样做才是明智的，你知道的，两者都做。

And I don't think that's anything but intelligent, you know, to do both.

这就是我的看法。

So that's how I look at it.

但如果你思考一下，是什么造就了你所追求的——当我试图去理解每个人想要什么时，我们每个人都是不同的。

But if you think like what creates you know, when you look I try to look at what does everybody want and we're all different.

我认为最好的例子是，人们都想要一种非凡的生活品质。

And I think the best example I can give is that people want an extraordinary quality of life.

但这个定义对每个人来说都不同。

But that definition is different for everybody.

比如，有些人认为非凡的生活就是拥有三个可爱的孩子，以及一个深爱的丈夫或妻子。

Like some people's idea of an extraordinary life is, you know, three beautiful children and a husband or wife that they adore.

有些人则希望写诗、作曲，或者建一个农场、打理一座花园。

Some people's is to write poetry or write music or to build a farm or garden.

有些人则是想经营一家企业。

Some people's is to grow a business.

每个人对这一点都有完全不同的看法。

Everyone has completely different eyes to what that is.

我不认为我的生活应该成为你的生活，或者我是你的榜样，但我可以作为例子，展示你如何将你相信想要创造的东西，通过结合与享受使其成为现实。

I don't pretend that my life should be your life or I'm the example for you, but I'm an example of how you can take what you believe you wanna create and make it real by a combination and enjoy it.

因为你知道，有多少人实现了所有想要的东西后，却说：这就完了？

Because how many you know have achieved everything you want and then said, is this all there is?

因为他们没有正确的哲学。

Because they didn't have the right philosophy.

或者他们试图实现一些认为能满足成就感需求的东西，却忽略了爱，你知道，生活中更重要的部分。

Or they were trying to achieve something they thought would meet a need for significance and they missed love, you know, the more important pieces of life.

因此，我相信要拥有非凡的生活品质，有两个核心技能，我将其定义为按自己的方式生活。

So I believe that there's two primary skills to have an extraordinary quality of life, which I would define as life on your terms.

第一个是成就的科学。

So the first one is the science of achievement.

这是一种技能。

That's a skill.

所以当我写我的理财书籍时，我最终写了三本，这根本不是我的初衷。

So when I wrote my financial books, I ended up writing three of them, I never intended that.

但在2008年之后，我非常愤怒，因为我曾与保罗·都铎·琼斯合作，他是世界历史上顶尖的十大交易员之一。

But after 2008, I was so angry because I worked with Paul Tudor Jones, one of the top 10 traders in the history of the world.

我知道这场危机即将来临，并试图警告人们。

And I knew this was coming, tried to warn people.

但只有极少数人几乎摧毁了世界经济。

And only a few number of people almost destroyed destroyed the world economy.

对吧？

Right?

然后我们却用更多的钱来惩罚他们。

And then we punished them by giving them more of our money.

这简直是最疯狂的事情。

It's just the most crazy thing.

所以我没有太多权力，但我有召集的能力。

So I don't have a lot of power, but I have the power to convene.

于是我召集了全球50位最顶尖的金融人士，深入研究他们的思维，找出了其中的共同模式。

And so I brought together 50 of the best financial people in the world and kinda dug into their brains and figured out what's the common pattern.

他们每个人都不同，却都从一无所有走向了财务自由。

They're all different that have made them go from nothing financially to financially free.

我想向人们展示，这仍然是可以实现的，尤其是年轻人，他们觉得这不可能，但其实他们错了。

And I wanna show people that's still doable because I think most especially young people, they don't think that's possible, and they're wrong.

每个人都说这个系统是被操纵的。

The system's rigged is what everybody says.

确实在某种程度上被操纵了，但依然完全有可能赢得胜利。

It is rigged to some extent, but it's still totally win winnable.

生活并不总是公平的，但它依然辉煌。

Life isn't always fair, but it's still magnificent.

对吧？

Right?

你依然可以让它变得辉煌。

You can still make it magnificent.

所以这些技能就像一门科学。

So the skill sets, it's like it's a science.

如果你做某些事情，月底时钱就会花光，日子却还很长。

If you do certain things, you're gonna have too much month at the end of the money.

对吧？

Right?

你会感到压力。

You're gonna have stress.

如果你在财务上做某些其他事情，你就会获得自由。

If you do certain other things financially, you're gonna be free.

这是一门科学。

That's a science.

你的身体也是一门科学。

Your body is a science.

我们每个人都有些不同，但有一些规律，如果你违背了它们，就会生病、得病。

Every one of us is slightly different, but there's certain patterns that if you violate them, you're gonna have illness, you're gonna have disease.

对吧？

Right?

就是这样。

That's what it is.

或者如果你围绕它们、实践它们，你就会拥有高水平的能量和健康。

Or if you surround yourself or apply them, you're gonna have a high level of energy, high level of health.

这种技能是西方世界大多数人所追求的。

That skill is the one that most human beings in the Western world are pursuing.

他们想要取得更多，整个焦点就是让我们获得更多。

They want to achieve more and the whole focus is let's get more.

我们是一个消费文化，因此很多人这么做，但他们仍然不快乐。

And we're a consumer culture and so as a result, a lot of people do that and they're still unhappy.

对吧？

Right?

这是因为第二种技能更重要，但在我们的西方文化中却很少被提倡，那就是满足的艺术。

That's because the second skill is more important and is not promoted in our western culture very much and that is the art of fulfillment.

注意，我说的是艺术，而不是科学。

And notice I said art, not science.

因为让你感到满足的事，和我认为你是个亲密朋友的事，以及让你最好的朋友和你的孩子感到满足的事，即使你们彼此相爱、同属一个家庭，也可能非常不同。

Because what fulfills you and I consider you a dear friend and what fulfills your best friend and what fulfills your kids may be really different even though you love each other and and you're all part of the same family so to speak.

我们每个人在这方面都是独特的。

We're all unique in that way.

就像上帝喜欢什么？

It's like what does God love?

去森林里走一走，环顾四周。

Go to a forest and take a look around.

一切都是不同的。

Everything's different.

它有着极致的形态与方向的多样性。

It's ultimate levels of variety of shapes and directions.

它本就不该是单一的东西。

It's not supposed to be one thing.

我认为这是我们文化中最大的挑战。

I think that's the biggest challenge in our culture.

我们已经经历了这一切，你知道，这种痛苦和枪击事件，人们因为相信与自己不同的东西而想要枪杀他人。

We've experienced all this, you know, this pain and these these shootings and so forth about people who wanna shoot other people because they believe something different than them.

天啊，当我们无法再进行对话，或者无法学会尊重分歧时，我们真正失去了一些东西。

Man, what we've really lost it when we can't have a conversation anymore or we can't learn to agree to disagree.

你知道，你可以爱一个人，同时仍然不同意他们的观点。

You know, it's part of you can love somebody and still disagree with them.

我知道在国会里，有一些朋友，他们曾经在副总统级别、总统级别以及国会和参议院工作。

I know in congress, have friends who were, you know, worked vice president level and worked at the presidential level and worked in congress and senate.

三四十年前，他们会激烈地争吵，但之后还是会一起去喝啤酒。

And they would fight like hell three or four decades ago and they'd go have a beer together.

现在他们甚至都不互相说话了。

Now they don't even talk to each other.

这真是件疯狂的事。

It's a crazy thing.

但我的观点是，满足感是一门艺术，而满足感因人而异，就像你和我不同一样。

But my point is, fulfillment is an art and fulfillment is as different as you and I are.

满足感没有固定法则，但有一些原则。

There are no laws to fulfillment, but there are some principles.

其中之一是成长。

And one is growth.

如果你想要获得满足感，你就必须成长。

If you're going be fulfilled, you got to grow.

事实上，我们如今所倡导的自我关怀理念，我认为很重要，它曾经是对抗过去所谓的‘拼命文化’的解药。

In fact, the whole self care mentality we have, which I think was important, it was like the antidote to the what they used to call it, the hustle culture.

拼命的

The

倦怠文化。

hustle burnout culture.

人们总是处于压力之中。

People are always stressed.

你知道，当他们感到压力时，他们拼命工作只是为了赚钱。

You know when they're stressed, they're hustling just to make money.

这毫无意义。

There's no meaning.

当你没有意义时，即使拼尽全力，也不会感到满足；但如果你做的这件事对你有意义，是为了一个超越金钱的更高目标，你就会感到满足。

When there's no mean you can work your ass off and be so fulfilled if it's meaningful to you if you're doing it for a higher purpose than just money.

我不是说你不该有钱，你确实应该有钱。

I'm not saying you shouldn't have money, you should.

赚钱是活着和照顾家庭的一项核心技能。

It's part of a master skill of being alive and taking care of your family.

但如果你仅仅为了钱而做，你最终会感到压力并耗尽自己。

But if that's the only thing you're doing it for, you're gonna stress out and burn out.

压力源于把事情看得比实际更重要。

I mean, stress comes to making things more important than it really is.

失败则源于把事情看得比实际更不重要。

Failure comes to making things less important than they really are.

这是一门艺术。

It's an art.

对吧？

Right?

但满足感在于找到那些能让你成长的事情，因为当你成长时，你会感到充满生机。

But the fulfillment side is finding what it is that allows you to grow because when you grow, you feel alive.

我总是告诉人们，人们经常问我，是什么让人快乐？

I always tell people, people ask me all the time, they say, what is it that makes people happy?

你游历世界，遇见数百万人，什么是幸福的共同关键？

You travel the world, you meet millions of people, what is what's the common key to happiness?

我说，是进步。

And I say progress.

进步等于幸福。

Progress equals happiness.

当你在进步时，你就快乐。

When you're making progress, you're happy.