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这是iHeart电台的播客《百分百人性》。
This is a iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.
我是艾瑞斯·帕尔默，我的新播客叫《逆境突围》，内容就是讲述人们如何不计代价地战胜逆境。
I'm Iris Palmer, and my new podcast is called Against All Odds, and that's exactly what the show is about, doing whatever it takes to beat the odds.
这周，我采访了著名女演员兼制片人伊娃·朗格利亚。
This week, I'm talking to celebrated actress and producer Eva Longoria.
我当时存款大概只有两百美元，我妈就问我：你打算怎么办？
I think I had, like, $200 in my savings account, and my mom goes, what are you gonna do?
我就说：总会有办法的。
And I was like, I'll figure it out.
我们租了一间一居室，月租四百美元，可我们根本负担不起，我当时就在想：我怎么才能赚到每月一百美元呢？
We had a one bedroom apartment for, like, $400 a month, and we all could not afford, Like, I was like, how am I gonna make a $100 a month?
立即免费下载iHeartRadio应用。
Open your free iHeartRadio app.
搜索‘Against All Odds with Iris Palmer’，马上收听。
Search against all odds with Iris Palmer and listen now.
大家好。
Hi, everyone.
我是谢丽尔·斯特雷德，著有《荒野》和《微小而美好的事物》。
I'm Sheryl Strade, author of wild and tiny beautiful things.
我很高兴告诉大家，我新开了一档播客，叫《心越群山》。
I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain.
每期节目中，我会采访运动员、冒险家和追求刺激的人，聊聊支撑他们完成非凡壮举的内心世界，帮助我们更好地理解如何面对自己看似无法逾越的挑战。
In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges.
每周四，请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你常用的播客平台收听《心越群山》。
Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
我是贝利·泰勒，欢迎收听《It Girl》。
I'm Bailey Taylor and this is It Girl.
这档播客聚焦当下正在塑造文化的女性，深入探讨她们的故事。
This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.
我们会聊时尚、聊成就，但也会谈压力、期待，以及背后不为人知的真实付出。
Yes we will talk about the style and the success but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations and the real work behind it all.
作为行业里的女性，你总是被低估，所以你得加倍努力，但又不能牺牲自己的本真和原则。
As a woman in the industry you're always underestimated so you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity.
我说过，我就像个沉默的忍者。
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你常用的任何平台收听贝利·泰勒的《It Girl》。
Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
那种老掉牙的说法——你只能做一件事，只能有一个目标，必须全神贯注，这简直是最大的谎言。
This old rhetoric of you gotta do one thing and you gotta have one goal and you gotta be focused on it, that's the biggest lie
从来都不是这样。
ever.
如果想成功，每个人最该掌握的商业技能是什么？
What's a business skill everyone should master if they wanna be successful?
你得会看气氛。
You have to read the room.
你得看清周围正在发生什么。
You have to see what's going on around you.
我看到很多年轻人在做生意时，总觉得事情只有一种做法。
The biggest issue that I see young people in business, they think everything is one way.
他们以为交流永远是单向的。
It's a one way conversation ever.
大家好。
Hey, everyone.
欢迎回到《有目的的人生》，这里是你变得更快乐、更健康、更完整的所在。
Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed.
今天做客《有目的的人生》的嘉宾，是独一无二的安朱拉·阿恰里亚——一位开创性的企业家、投资人，也是深刻影响全球职业发展和百亿级品牌的文化力量。
Today's guest on On Purpose is the one and only Anjula Acharia, trailblazing entrepreneur, investor, and cultural powerhouse who's helped shape global careers and billion dollar brands.
安朱拉是A Series Investments的创始人，曾早期投资了Bumble和ClassPass等公司，也长期担任priyanka chopra jonas的经纪人。
Anjula is the founder of A Series Investments, an early investor in companies like Bumble and ClassPass, and a longtime manager of Priyanka Chopra Jonas.
而在这一切背后，她更是我一位非常亲密的朋友，能请她来到节目里，我由衷地感激。
And behind all of this, she is a dear, dear friend who I'm so grateful to welcome onto the show.
让我们欢迎安朱拉·阿恰里亚，来到《有目的的人生》。
Please welcome to On Purpose, Anjula Acharia.
很高兴你能来。
And it is so great to have you here.
天哪。
Oh my god.
能来这里真的太好了。
It's so good to be here.
我们第一次见面是在八年前，那时候我刚搬去洛杉矶。
We met for the first time around eight years ago when I first moved to LA actually.
你曾经指导过的人，也是你的好朋友，现在也是我的好朋友——帕维尔·卡达基亚，就是通过她介绍我们认识的。
And one of the people that you've mentored and your dear friend and now my dear friend as well, Pavel Kadakia, we met through her.
你为创业者、女性创业者、艺术家、我们的社群，以及全球各地的南亚人群所做的一切，真的令人钦佩。
And honestly, the amount you've done for founders, for female founders, for artists, for our community, for the South Asians all over the world and beyond that is amazing.
我们由衷地感谢你。
And we're so grateful to you.
我知道很多人一提到你，都会说，哦，对，她帮过我。
And I know so many people who whenever your name comes up and and it's like, oh, yeah, she helped me with this.
还有她是怎么帮我的。
And how she helped me with this.
我总能发现你帮过的新的人和事。
And I'm always discovering new people you've helped with stuff.
所以我想说，代表我自己，也代表我们所有朋友，我们真的非常感激你，你完全配得上在这里，我很庆幸你来了，也很开心你在这里。
And so I just wanna say, you know, from me and on behalf of all of our friends, just how grateful we are to you, and you totally deserve to be here, and I'm grateful and happy that you're here.
天哪。
Oh my god.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
其实我刚认识你的时候，还挺怀疑的。
Well, I mean, I just wanna tell this quick story that when I first met you, was super skeptical.
但你后来做了一件对我人生影响巨大的事，而我那时根本不知道——我姐姐，愿她安息，几年前因多发性硬化症后又因癌症去世了。
And then you did something so dramatic in my life without me even knowing it, which was my sister who, rest in peace, died a few years ago, struggled through multiple sclerosis and then died of cancer.
她一直没能有机会和你聊上一句，我真的很希望她能和你视频通话一次，这是我唯一遗憾的事。
She never got to talk to you and I really wish she'd had and that's my one regret that we never got to FaceTime with you.
但她真的跟我说过，如果没有你，她根本撑不过那两年。这让我特别震撼，因为我知道你，我心想，天哪，你竟然对这么亲近的人产生了这么大的影响，而她却一直默默听着你，每天靠你的声音撑下去。
But she literally told me that she wouldn't have made it through those two years of her life without you and that was just so incredible and it seemed so insane to me because I knew you and I was like, oh my god, this guy's had so much impact on one of the people so dear to me and she was doing this so quietly, like she was listening to you every single day just to get through life.
所以你对我们全家的影响真的太大了，我会永远铭记这份恩情。
And yeah, anyway, so you have had such a big impact in our family's life and I will always honor that.
我真的好希望能亲自跟她聊一聊。
Oh, I wish I got to speak to her too.
我知道。
I know.
听到这些话，我特别受触动，因为她面对的困难，远比我经历的任何事都要艰难得多。我总是觉得，真正坚持下来的，是她，而不是我。
I really do, I, you know, I feel so humbled by statements like that because she was fighting a much tougher fight than anything I've been in myself, and so I always feel very humbled that she's the one who did the real work.
真正拼尽全力的，是她。
Like she was the one who was doing the real fighting.
谢谢你一直愿意跟我分享这些。
And thank you for sharing that with me always.
同时，我也把我的爱、祈祷和冥想，送给她和你的家人。
And, yeah, my love and prayers and meditation for her and your family right now as well.
但我特别想深入聊聊，因为你的经历真的太特别了。
But I wanted to dive in because you have such a fascinating story.
我一向喜欢去了解一个人是怎么变成现在的自己的，因为大家往往只看到简历、看到你现在的成就，就以为你天生就一路顺遂，早就知道未来会怎样。
And one of the things I like to do on purpose is to really understand how people became who they became because I think people hear the resume, they see you, they see the success, and you just assume that people just always had it and knew what was gonna happen.
可一旦揭开表面，你会发现根本不是这么回事。
And then when you peel behind the scenes, you realize it wasn't like that at all.
我想先问问你，有没有哪个童年记忆特别深刻，能代表你今天的样子？
I wanted to start by asking you, what's a childhood memory that stands out to you that you would say defines who you are today?
我觉得这其实定义了我整个人生的轨迹。
You know, I think defines my entire journey and everything.
你应该知道，因为你也在英国上过学，差不多和我同一时期。
And you're gonna know this because you went you went to school in England and around the same time as me.
我可能要暴露年龄了。
I think I'm gonna show my age a bit.
你还记得那个叫《格兰奇山》的电视剧吗？
But you remember that TV show Grange Hill?
当然。
Of course.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Yeah.
当然。
Of course.
如果是英国人，没人不知道《格兰奇山》这部剧。
If you're British, everybody knew Grange Hill.
是的。
Yes.
那时候有部电视剧叫《格兰奇山》，我上学总因为是‘小铺子’被人欺负。
So there was this TV show Grange Hill, and I would always get bullied at school for being the packy.
我和我兄弟姐妹是在一个完全白人的环境里长大的。
And me and my brother and sister grew up in a completely white environment.
我们没在伦敦或者类似的地方长大。
We didn't grow up in London or anywhere like that.
我们家在白金汉郡。
We're in Buckinghamshire.
所以我总是因为是‘packy’被人欺负。
So I was always bullied for being a packy.
吐口水、踢、打，反正该有的都有。
I mean, like, spat on, kicked, punched, like, you name it.
那种事儿我都经历过。
Went through it all.
但我发现，那时候有个电视剧叫《Grange Hill》，人人都看。
And but what I noticed was there was this TV show Grange Hill and I everyone watched it.
大家都看同样的四个频道。
Everyone watched the same four channels.
对吧？
Right?
有一集讲的是个巴基斯坦女孩，简直全是刻板印象。
So there was this one episode about this girl who was Pakistani and basically it was so like stereotypical.
拍得实在太差了。
It was it was just bad.
第二天我被欺负得更厉害了，我都记不清她叫什么了，但所有人都拿她的名字叫我，还问：你爸妈是不是也这样？
And the next day I got bullied so much harder And everyone, I can't remember what her name was but everyone was calling me at that name and going, is that what your mom and dad are like?
你是不是也这样？
Is that what you're like?
我记得那天放学回家，整个人都垮了，心想：我讨厌电视。
Because I remember just coming home from school and being just, you know, wrecked and thinking I hate TV.
它正在毁掉我的生活。
It's ruining my life.
人们怎么对待我，全凭家里那台只有四个频道的电视机告诉他们的那些东西。
And the way people are treating me are based on what this box at home that has four channels is telling everyone about me.
那些对咱们族群的片面刻板故事，彻底改变了我的人生。
These siloed stereotypical stories about our people and that changed my life.
从那一刻起，我就下定决心，以前我坐在英国的窗台上看星星，总想着总有一天我要成为迈克尔·杰克逊的经纪人，照顾他，保护他。
I from that moment was like, one day I used to sit on my windowsill in England and look at the stars and one day I'm gonna and by the way, I used to think that Michael Jackson was really poorly treated and I was like, what, I'm
我要当迈克尔·杰克逊的经纪人，好好照顾他。
gonna be Michael Jackson's manager and I'm gonna take care of
保护他。
him and I'm gonna protect him.
我觉得那是我人生的一个转折点，虽然当时还说不清楚，但我明白，媒体如何影响了我每天被人对待的方式，也让我意识到这份责任有多重。
And I think that that was such a life changing moment for me that knowing that media and I couldn't articulate it in that way then but knowing that media impacted the way I was treated on a day to day basis and the responsibility and the impact of that.
是的。
Yeah.
这种经历对我们这一代人来说，真的太真实了。
And it was such a real experience I feel for us in our generation for sure.
我小时候也经历过这些。
Like I had that growing up.
我上的是个印度裔很少的学校，因为住的地方就是这样，小学时我们班大概就三个印度孩子。
I went to a predominantly non Indian school because of the area I grew up in, and I think I was one of like three Indian kids in my class growing up in primary school.
我因为体重被欺负过。
And I was bullied for my weight.
我因为肤色被欺负过。
I was bullied for my color.
我因为午饭的味道被欺负，有时候我妈会给我做印度菜。
I was bullied for the way my lunch smelled because sometimes my mom would make me Indian things.
我记得那段经历，后来才意识到，我们的父母当年也经历过无数这样的侮辱。
And I remember that experience, and then I remember thinking just how many slurs our parents went through as well.
他们经历的比我们还要早。
My Having gone through even earlier than us.
所以父母给我和我妹妹取了在英国没人能嘲笑的名字。
That And was the reason my parents gave me and my sister names that no one can make fun of in England.
就是Jay和Amy。
It was like Jay and Amy
天啊。
Wow.
就是为了让我们比他们当年过得轻松一点。
Just to make just to make us have an easier ride than they did Yeah.
因为他们真的特别担心，特别怕我们被欺负。
Because that's how worried and concerned they
太棒了。
were Awesome.
怕我们会遭到欺凌。
That we would get bullied.
但另一件奇怪的事是，我在家里、在我们社区里也被人欺负，因为我混血。
But you know the other crazy thing though is I was also bullied at home within our community because I was mixed.
我一半是印度教徒，一半是锡克教徒。
I was half Hindu and half Sikh.
锡克教徒觉得我不够锡克。
And for the Sikhs, I wasn't Sikh enough.
印度教徒又觉得我不够印度。
And for the Hindus, I wasn't Hindu enough.
我从小生活在 predominantly 白人社区，说话方式跟很多伦敦印度裔都不一样。
And I also grew up in such a white environment that I didn't speak like a lot of the Indian Londoners.
对吧？
Right?
不管在哪儿，我就是融不进去。
And in any scenario, I like just did not fit in.
你懂的。
You know?
那种被孤立的感觉，一直都在。
Was always that feeling of isolation.
是的。
Yeah.
你后来走的路特别不走寻常路，我甚至觉得，你这种格格不入，反而成了你的优势。
I mean, you've had such an untraditional career since then, and I almost feel like you not fitting in is kind of like turned into your superpower.
没错。
Yeah.
没错。
Definitely.
因为你现在还是格格不入，但这反而成了你的优势。
Because now you don't fit in as well and that's a superpower.
它确实帮到了你。
It's worked for you.
它让你能胜任多种角色。
It's helped you be multiple things.
你是什么时候开始意识到，自己在越来越自信地接纳自己的不同之处的？
When did you find that you started to realize you were becoming more confident in your differences?
又是什么时候开始觉得，这些不同可以成为一种工具、一种方法，甚至通向更多可能的途径？
And when did they start to feel like a tool and an approach and a method that could lead to more?
说真的，直到我去了硅谷，融到了资，才真正明白。
You know, only until I got to Silicon Valley and I raised money
天哪。
Wow.
为了一个原创的想法。
For an original idea.
我和前夫一起创办了这家公司，叫Daisy Hits，那会儿正好是你认识我的时候，我们做了一个爆火的播客。
So me and my ex husband, we we founded this company called Daisy Hits, which is kinda around the time you met me, and it was a podcast that went viral.
那时候我们做播客，根本没人做这行。
Actually, we were in podcasting waiting for anyone was in podcasting.
这个播客突然火了，一堆风投追着要投钱，内容其实是各种文化的混搭。
So it was a podcast that went completely viral and all these VCs started chasing me for money and it was basically a mashup of culture.
我们放了很多音乐，把嘻哈和邦嘎融合在一起。
So it was like we were playing a lot of music, so it a of hip hop with Bunga.
还有宝莱坞配上R&B。
It was like Bollywood with the r and b.
再加上鼓打贝斯，全是小时候让我有共鸣的音乐类型，全混在了一起。
It was like, you know, drum and bass and it was just like a mashup of all the music that we loved that I felt growing up represented me.
对吧？
Right?
我记得刚上大学时，第一次走进伦敦一家夜店，后来才知道那人就是我老公。
Like, I remember this moment when I first walked into a nightclub in London when I was at university and, turned out later that that was my my husband.
他当时是大学里的DJ，正混搭着Bungara和嘻哈音乐。
He was a DJ, at at university, and he was just playing this mashup of, like, Bungara and hip hop.
我跟着跳得特别投入，心里就一个念头：太棒了。
And I remember dancing to it just going, wow.
这说的就是我。
This is me.
这说的就是我。
Like, this is me.
这正是真实的我。
Like, this is who I am.
那一刻真的特别有感觉。
Like, it just felt really like a moment.
特别有意思的是，后来我把这事讲给了吉米·伊奥文听。
And it's so funny because much later on, I explained this to Jimmy Iovine.
不知道你们有没有听说过他，他是Beats by Dre和Interscope唱片公司的创始人之一，旗下签过不少超级大牌，比如埃米纳姆。
For those of you who don't know who he is, he was a founder of Beats by Dre and Interscope Records, which, you know, was behind, like, some of the most Eminem,
50 Cent，还有那些我从小特别迷的音乐人。
fifty Cent, like Most
最传奇的那些艺人。
legendary people.
我就是听着他们的歌长大的，特别崇拜。
Grew up on that I'm, like, massive fan of.
没错。
Yeah.
德雷博士。
Doctor Dre.
几乎所有人都受过他的影响。
Like, everyone.
从拉娜·德雷到Lady Gaga，随便点一个，都是他带起来的。
Like, Lana Del Rey, like, you name it, Lady Gaga.
总之，我跟他提过另一个类似的时刻，就是Punjabi MC和Jay Z合作那首歌的时候。那首歌《Where Are The Boys》在南亚社群里地下流传了好久，一直没上过主流。
Anyway, and I told him this other moment that feels similar to that where when Punjabi MC and Jay Z jumped on that track together, which was on the underground forever, like, Where Are The Boys was on the underground forever in Desi circles, South Asian circles.
对。
Yes.
但等Jay Z加入，把两首歌混在一起，做成新版本后，它突然成了热门流行曲。我记得当时在伦敦，以前开车的人都把印度音乐放得很大声，车窗紧闭。可就在那一刻，所有车窗都慢慢降了下来——连我旁边那辆白人开的车，也在放同一首歌。
But when Jay Z jumped on it and mashed that up and created that new track and it became sort of mainstream pop hit, I feel like I remember being in London and everybody driving used to drive with their Indian music and their their windows up, And there was this just moment where all the windows came down really slowly because everyone was like, even the white person in the car next to me is playing the same song.
我把这个瞬间告诉了吉米·艾奥文。
And I told Jimmy Iovine that moment.
我当时说，那一刻，每个人都感觉被接纳了，都觉得自己是同一场潮流的一部分。
I was like, it was just this, like, moment where everybody felt accepted and everybody felt part of the same thing.
你懂的吧？
You know?
现在你去听演唱会，或者去哪儿，都能感受到，所有人一起享受同一首歌，注意力都集中在同一个地方，那种归属感特别明显。
And you feel it now when you go to a concert or whatever, like everyone there is enjoying the same thing and focused on the same thing and you feel the sense of community.
直到那个瞬间，我们才第一次觉得，自己真的属于这个圈子。
Well, we never felt that we belonged in that community until that moment.
所以音乐对我来说一直都很重要，它总能把人们连在一起。
So music's always been such, like, a significant thing to me in terms of connecting people and putting people together.
但回答你的问题，筹款和人们支持这个理念——那种融合的元素，你身上所有的东西，其实并不纯粹是印度的。
But to answer your question, raising money and people going, I wanna back that idea of this element of fusion and everything you are, which it doesn't fit into Like, it wasn't all Indian.
也不完全是英国的。
It wasn't all British.
更不是纯粹的美国的。
It wasn't all American.
它不属于任何单一的文化标签。
It wasn't all, you know, any one thing.
对吧？
Right?
它就是各种东西混在一起的产物。
It was just a mashup of everything.
结果居然还能靠这个理念筹到五百万美元，真挺了不起的。
And then to, yeah, raise $5,000,000 against that was pretty amazing.
确实如此。
That is yeah.
如果现在有人在听，心里想着：安朱拉，我正在上大学，或者马上要毕业了，也可能已经三十岁，工作了九年，却还不清楚自己到底想做什么。
If someone's listening right now and they're thinking, Anjula, you know, I'm at university or I'm about to graduate, maybe I'm 30 years old and I've been working for nine years, I'm not really sure about what I'm doing.
你对这样的人有什么建议，能帮他们找到属于自己的独特声音？
What advice would you give to them to find their unique voice?
因为你找到的东西真正代表了你，而且你成功把它变现，还从中发展出了更多可能。
Because what you found was something that represented you and you were able to monetize it and create more from it.
对于那些二十到三十岁之间的人，你有什么建议？
What advice would you give to someone who's in that 20 to 30 range?
首先，我想说，我称自己为‘没有地图的人’。
Firstly, I just wanna say I call myself mapless.
对吧？
Right?
我从来就没有过一张地图。
I never had a map.
我以前常听这类播客，不是你的，而是那种说‘赶紧定个目标，找出你的方向’的。
And you know, I used to listen to these types of podcasts, not yours, but well, or or, you know, people go, get your goal, figure out your goal, get your, you know, your map to your goal.
我就想，可我不知道自己目标是什么。
And I'd be like, well, I don't know what my goal is.
我不知道自己的路在哪儿，因为我既没目标也没终点，根本不知道该怎么走。
I don't know what my journey is because I don't have a goal and I don't have destination, so I don't know how to get there.
所以我从来就没拿过什么路线图。
So I never had a map.
我做任何事，从来就没设过什么终点。
I never had a destination in anything I've done.
所以你得做的第一件事是，我压根没意识到这背后还能有个生意。
So the thing that you have to do because I didn't even know there was a business idea in this.
我跟你说说融资的事，这就能说明白了。
The I'll tell you the fundraising story, and this will explain.
我以前做高管猎头，给初创公司找CEO，跟不少风投打过交道。
So I was an executive search finding CEOs for startups, and I worked with a bunch of VCs.
我们创办了这个播客。
We founded this podcast.
它突然火了。
It went viral.
在日常生活中，你从来不会只聊一件事。
In your daily life, you never just talk about one thing.
你从来不会只谈生意。
You never just talk about business.
我跟那位风投聊天时，他问我：你还有别的事吗？
So I'm talking to this VC and I'm going he's like, what else is going on?
我当时心想：天哪。
And I'm like, oh my god.
我和拉吉做了这个播客，结果彻底爆了。
Me and Raj did this podcast and it went completely viral.
你知道吗，我们在 iTunes 上已经有二十五万次下载了，而我不过是随便聊聊而已。
And like, you know, we have like 250,000 downloads on iTunes and I was just chatting about it.
对吧？
Right?
但我真的特别投入，因为这本来就是我的事。
But I was genuinely super passionate about it because that's my thing.
第二天，他就发来一份爆表的时间记录。
So the next day, I get this exploding time sheet from him.
他让我发 iTunes 的数据报告，自己也特别好奇。
He asked me to send him the iTunes report and he just I'm so curious.
你能发给我吗？
Would you send it to me?
我说，当然可以。
And I go, yeah.
我没什么好隐瞒的。
I have nothing to hide.
于是我就发给他了。
So I sent it to him.
第二天，他发给我一份天价工时单，要占公司四分之一的股份。
And then the next day he sent me an exploding time sheet for a million dollars for quarter quarter of the company.
我当时完全傻了。
And I was just like, I was flabbergasted.
我不知道该怎么办。
I didn't know what to do.
这简直太离谱了。
I was like, this is insane.
然后他说，你老公不是在英特尔上班吗？
Like but then he was like, your husband, he had a job at Intel.
他说，你老公得辞掉工作。
He was like, he has to give up his job.
这份投资条款的条件就是，你们俩都得全职投入这件事。
This is the conditions of this term sheet that you both have to do this again.
因为他是个技术背景的人，而我呢，就负责出点子。
Because he was a tech guy and I was just the ideas person.
对吧？
Right?
我就回家跟我老公说。
And I was like so I come home to my husband.
你得辞掉工作。
I'm like, you have to give up your job.
他
And he
问：为了什么？
was like, for what?
我说：为了这个，咱们能拿到一百万美元。
And I was like, for this, but we're gonna get a million dollars.
我要创办这家公司，诸如此类的事。
I'm gonna start this company and blah blah blah blah.
我当时
And I had
想办法让他跟我一起干。
to convince him to do it with me.
对。
Yeah.
但我想说的是，你一定要敢于分享自己的想法。
But the point of that is to say, you should always feel comfortable to talk about your ideas.
是的。
Yeah.
因为你可能看不到某些东西，但别人也许能发现。
Because you may not see something, but somebody else might see something.
完全没错。
Totally.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
所以
So
而且还有想法的碰撞，因为你现在做的是高管猎头这份工作。
And also the collision of the idea because you're working a job doing executive search.
对。
Yeah.
所以你有一份工作。
So you have a job.
没错。
Correct.
你的工作并不是毫无意义、浪费时间的，确实如此。
And it's not that your job was useless and a waste of time and Exactly.
它其实是有价值的，因为很多时候我们进了份工作，就会觉得：这真是个死胡同，我讨厌它，太糟了。
It didn't have value because I think a lot of us sometimes you get into a job and you go, I'm in this dead end job, I hate it, it's the worst.
但你永远不知道，这份工作可能会带你走向别的机会。
But you never know how that job could connect you to something.
就像你根本没想到，提到这个播客时，你们俩竟然通过工作认识了同一个人。
Like you didn't know when you were gonna mention this podcast you both had that actually someone you were connected to through your job.
而且，说实话，我当时觉得这爱好挺傻的。
And also, yeah, right, and I thought it was kind of a silly hobby.
我成立这家公司，唯一的原因是我爸担心我们会因为版权被起诉。
And the only reason I set up a company around it was because my dad was convinced we were gonna get sued for copyright.
因为我们一直在用那些没买授权的音乐。
So because we were playing all this music without licensing.
我爸这个人特别爱较真，他就说：你们得注册个公司，不然他们找上门，连你家房子都要收走。
So my dad being my dad who's highly litigious was like, you need to get a company around that so they can't see you and take your home.
我这么做完全是因为他吓坏了，觉得我们势头起来了，音乐公司肯定要来追责。
And that was the only reason I did it because my dad was freaking out about it because we were getting momentum and he was like, oh, those music companies are gonna come after you.
结果后来，那些音乐公司反而想投资我们公司。
Turned out all those music companies later wanted to invest in the company.
从那以后，事情就一路发展起来了。
And it just sort of like took off from there.
不过回到你问的建议，我想说几点。
But going back to your question about advice, like, I would say a couple of things.
我想教大家怎么建立人脉。
Like, I wanna teach people how to network.
我觉得这是特别关键的一件事。
Like, that's something that I think is really critical.
我刚从伦敦搬到硅谷的时候，快三十岁了，之前一直在做高管猎头和广告行业。
So when I first I moved from London to Silicon Valley, I was in my late twenties and I'd had a career in executive search and advertising.
到了硅谷之后，一个熟人都不认识。
And I went to Silicon Valley and knew absolutely no one.
连我家园丁我都认不全，情况真的很糟，我一到硅谷就心想：天啊，我在这儿非得孤死不可，一个人都不认识。
Like I didn't even know my gardener, like it was bad and I was like dropped into Silicon Valley and I was just like, oh my god, I'm gonna die here because I don't know anyone.
后来，我住的那栋楼里有个人跟我说，哦，这儿有个针对科技人士的南亚人聚会。
So someone mentioned like literally someone in my building who, you know, I lived in a in a in a an apartment building said, oh, there's these South Asian meetups for tech people.
我当时想，我虽然不算搞技术的，但去一趟看看能不能认识点人也无妨。
And I was like, well, not really in tech but you know, I could just go and see if I can meet people.
结果我去参加了，大概一年后，我就开始主持这些活动了，参加的全是风投和创业者，全是我自己搞起来的。
So I went and after like probably a year, I was running those things and it was all VCs and entrepreneurs and I like just created my own.
我是这么做的：假设我一个人都不认识，遇见你，我就说，嘿，杰伊。
And the way I did that was, so let's just say I know no one in the room and I meet you and I go, oh, hey, Jay.
你最近怎么样？
How are you?
你是做什么的？
What do you do?
聊上几句就完了。
Blah blah blah.
我知道，这么做需要挺大的勇气。
And trust me, I know that takes confidence.
但我听说，你是在某个播客里听到这个方法的。
But everyone I heard it on one of your podcasts.
其实每个人心里都挺没底的。
Everyone's feeling shitty.
是的。
Yeah.
大家都觉得不知道该跟谁搭话。
Everyone's like doesn't know who to talk to.
确实如此。
Totally.
每个人都戴着名牌，心里想着：天啊，我该去找谁聊天呢？
Everyone's got that name tag on there thinking, god, who am I
去跟谁说话呢？
gonna speak to?
这真是太尴尬了。
This is so awkward.
所以，鼓起勇气，直接去跟第一个人打招呼吧。
So just just have that bravery to go up to that first person and talk to them.
我就这么做了。
So I did that.
我走过去问：你是做什么行业的？
I go, what what are you in?
那 guy 说：‘哎呀，我记不清了。’
And the guy was like, oh, I can't remember.
但简单说吧，他做的是医疗软件方面的业务。
But he was let's just say he was in like software for healthcare.
对吧？
Right?
我就跟他聊了起来。
So I was chatting with him.
我根本帮不上什么忙。
I had nothing to offer.
我什么也给不了他。
I had nothing to give.
我当时就在英国做些猎头工作。
I was literally just like doing some headhunting stuff in England.
那情况真不怎么样。
It was it was it was not good.
所以呢，我就跟他聊了会儿，然后别人进来，我又去认识下一个人。
So anyway, so I just chatted with him and then, you know, people would come in and I would like meet someone else.
他们一来，我就问：你是做什么的？
And I they would be like I was like, what do you do?
他们就说：我是做科技医疗投资的。
And they'd be like, oh, I'm an investor in tech health care.
对吧？
Right?
我当时就惊了。
So I'm like, oh my god.
你得认识一下这个人。
You need to meet this person.
然后我就把他们介绍认识，让他们聊一聊。
And then I would put them together and they would have a conversation.
有时候呢，聊完啥也没发生。
Now sometimes it would lead to absolutely nothing.
是的
Yeah.
但偶尔也会有成果。
But on the odd occasion, it led to something.
有几个人就是通过我牵线搭桥拿到了投资。
And a couple of people got funded based off those introductions that I did.
哇哦。
Wow.
他们就是这么简单直接。
And they were just like that.
所以到了晚上，有人教了我怎么做，我就开始不断帮人牵线。
So by the end of, like, the night because and someone taught me how to do this.
我一直在帮这些人建立联系。
I was just connecting all these people.
大家觉得我是个搭桥的人，都希望我到场，因为我会让他们的事变得轻松不少。
People just saw me as a connector, and people wanted me in the room because I made their lives easier.
是的。
Yeah.
所以回到你另一个播客里提到的话题，今天我聊到‘提供服务’，其实我根本不是想提供什么服务。
So going back to one of your other podcasts I had today about talking about being in service, I didn't actually mean to be in service.
我只是没安全感，不知道该跟人说什么，也觉得自己没什么能贡献的。
I was just insecure and didn't know what to say to anyone and had nothing to offer to the conversation.
所以我心想，既然这个人聊这个，那个人需要那个，那我就把他们牵线搭个桥，假装自己很厉害。
So I was like, if this person talks to me about this and this person needs this, I can just put them together and pretend like I'm great.
对吧？
Right?
不对。
No.
但我特别喜欢这一点，因为这真的很重要，不管是服务还是价值。
But I love that because it's such a it's it's so important, like whether it's service or value.
关键是你实实在在地为别人的生活带来了价值。
The point is you were adding value to other people's lives.
那时候你觉得自己没什么可贡献的，但最好的做法就是把他们互相介绍认识。
And the best way you could do that at that point when you felt you didn't have anything to offer personally was to connect them with people.
这其实特别重要，因为很多人总觉得，哎，我要是把这人介绍给那人，那人以后就不愿意帮我了，可实际上没意识到——
And that's huge because I think we often feel like, oh, if I introduce that person to that person, then they won't wanna help me and not realize,
我压根就没想过这回事。
It never even crossed my mind.
是啊，但很多人确实会这么想。
Yeah, but a lot of people feel like
没错。
that.
很多人都是这样。
A lot
很多人都会这样。
of people
觉得我不该去牵线搭桥。
are like, I won't connect people.
我觉得这种做法也影响了你身边亲近的人。
And I think that's rubbed off on people that you love.
比如说，我刚来洛杉矶的时候，要是不认识派尔，根本不可能认识这么多早期的朋友。
Like for example, when I came to LA, if I didn't know Pyle, wouldn't have met so many of my early friends here.
是的。
Yeah.
因为她一直在帮我牵线搭桥。
And like, because she was connecting me.
所以我认识了杰里米，认识了你，还认识了这么多其他人，都是因为她。
So I met Jeremy, I met you, I met so many other people because of her.
这种影响其实很有传染性，和你共事、跟你交朋友的人，最后也会变得这样，这真是特别美好的品质。
And so it's such a contagious thing as well where the people you're working with and your friends with also end up having that quality, which which is such a beautiful quality.
太棒了。
That's amazing.
我特别喜欢这一点。
I love that.
我一直不明白，为什么有人不愿意帮别人牵线搭桥。
You know, I never understood people that had guardrails up about introducing people to people.
我觉得这反而会让一个人更有价值。
Like I never understood that because I was like, this makes you more valuable.
是的。
Yeah.
能帮人建立联系，这其实是一种特别珍贵的品质，真的很有价值。
Like it's such a deep quality to be able to connect people with people and it's such a value.
这样一来，大家都会特别想跟你待在一起。
And then people want you around all the time.
你有没有发现，聊天的时候总有人会说：‘你一定要认识一下那个人，他特别会牵线搭桥。’
How many times you've heard in conversation, oh, you gotta meet that person, they're a connector.
对。
Yeah.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
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当个牵线搭桥的人，真的特别有价值。
Like, that is like it's it's it's such a valuable thing to be a connector.
所以，回到你最初问的，关于年轻人听这个播客的事，我觉得最重要的是，你要有信心主动介绍别人认识，保持好奇，去了解别人在做什么，想想怎么帮上忙。
So, anyway, so just going back to your initial question about, you know, young people listening to this podcast, I think it's really critical that you feel confident to introduce people to other people and be curious and find out what other people are doing and see how you can add value.
在这个过程中，你自然会收获回报。
Along the way, you will get value.
我觉得我的职业生涯，就是靠为别人创造价值建立起来的，所有的回报，都来自这一点。
Like, I think about my career is now built in bringing people value, and I get all the, you know, I get all the rewards for that.
不管是促成两方合作带来的投资回报，还是我牵线搭桥促成的联系，都像复利一样，越滚越多。
Like, whether it's a return on investment in an investment of two people I put together on investment that I made or a connection that I made, like, I just feel like it it really pays in dividends.
是的。
Yeah.
我同意。
I agree.
我同意。
I agree.
关于如何有效社交，还有别的建议吗？
Any other tips on good networking?
我觉得你说得特别对。
Because I think you're spot on.
现在很多人觉得社交就是发名片，那已经是过时的做法了，或者以为社交就是直接找人当导师。
I think a lot of people now think networking's either handing your card out, is like an old model of it, or people think networking is like asking someone to just be your mentor.
是的。
Yeah.
那样也行不通。
And that doesn't work either.
还有没有其他关于社交的好建议？
Any other good advice for networking?
说到导师这件事，我的导师是印德拉·诺伊，我认识她的经历还挺有意思的。
You know, just on the mentor thing, so my mentor is Indra Noohi, and I'm it's a funny story how I met Indra.
当时我和她一起上了福布斯的一个榜单，我前男友当时在百事公司工作，他就把榜单转给了印德拉，说‘我女朋友和你一起上了这个榜单’。
So I happened to be on some Forbes list with her and an ex boyfriend who I was dating worked for PepsiCo and then he forwarded it to Indra and just said, oh my girlfriend's on this list with you.
她就说，特别想见见她。
And she was like, oh, I'd really love to meet her.
他后来给我打了电话，说Indra想见你，我当时就激动坏了，真的特别想认识她。
And he sort of called me and he was like, Indra wants to meet you and I was like, oh, that's amazing, like I wanna meet her.
当然，那时候Indra Nooyi还是百事可乐的CEO。
Of course, it's Indra Nuit who was the CEO of PepsiCo at that time.
后来我见了她，她对我特别亲切，我真想不通，我到底能给她带来什么价值？结果后来才知道，她其实是想让我认识她女儿们，还说了句特别有意思的话，她说——
So anyway, I met her and she was, I mean, was so incredibly lovely to me and I couldn't understand why honestly, I was like what value do I bring to this woman and actually turned out she really wanted me to meet her daughters and she was like, she said something really funny, she
她说，这女人居然在美国把一个宝莱坞明星捧红了，这比推火一个果汁品牌难多了。
was like this woman broke a Bollywood star in America and it's hard enough to break a juice brand.
她就是这么说的。
That's what she said.
她说，推火一个果汁品牌已经够难了，可这姑娘居然把一个宝莱坞明星给捧红了。
She was like, it's hard enough to break a juice brand, but this girl broke a Bollywood star in America.
我就说，这太有意思了。
And I was like, oh, that's so funny.
总之，我们一直保持联系。
Anyway, so then I, you know, we stay in touch.
她会给我做多萨饼。
She makes me dosas.
她特别好，简直像我妈一样。我现在更愿意叫她‘教母’，而不是导师，因为她真的以一种特别温暖的方式照顾我。
She's like amazing, she becomes like a mom, I would call her more my godmom than a mentor now because she really sort of like mothers me in the nicest way.
后来有一天，她跟我说：我想当你的导师。我一听，太棒了！但她接着说，当我的学生，你得完全听我的话。
And anyway, but then one day she said to me, she goes, I want to mentor you and I was like okay, that's amazing and she was like but my deal with mentorship is that you have to do everything I tell you.
我说什么，你就得做什么。
If I tell you to do something, you have to do it.
她让我承诺，只要她吩咐，我就必须照做。我当时觉得，这担子可不轻。
So she goes you have to commit to me that you would do what I told you to do and I was like that's a really big undertaking.
其实她总共也就给我过一两次建议，不是让我做这做那，但每一条都特别有分量。
Like she has probably only ever told me once to do something, not to do something or do something and that's been really valuable advice.
但说到底，我想说的是，她总说：是导师选你，而不是你选导师。我完全同意这一点。
But anyway, my point is to mentorship is she always says mentors pick you and I agree with that.
我主动选择了Pyle Kodakia，ClassPass的创始人。我认识她的时候，她向我做了推介，我就决定想指导她，觉得她值得我花很多时间，后来我就真的成了她的导师。我觉得，你得让导师来选择你，这其实挺难的，因为经常在各种大会上演讲，总有人来找我，很多年轻女孩跑过来。
I picked Pyle Kodakia, the founder of ClassPass like I met Pyle, she pitched to me and I decided I wanted to mentor her and I decided that she was someone I wanted to put a lot of time into and then I mentored her And I think that you have to allow mentors to pick you and it's really hard because you know we speak at a lot of conferences and people come up to me and lots of young girls come up
来找我说：‘你能当我的导师吗？你能当我的导师吗？’
to me and say, will you mentor me, will you mentor me?
我就跟她们说，其实不行，我觉得你得先跟人建立起真正的关系。
And I'm just like, well you know, actually no, and I just feel like you've got to build a relationship with someone.
我从来没主动找Indra请她当我的导师。
I I never asked Indra to mentor me.
我是希望她当我的导师吗？
Like, did I want her to mentor me?
那当然了。
Hell yeah.
谁不希望呢？
Who wouldn't?
但说实话，我也说不清楚。
But, you know, I I don't know.
我会为这种情况创造机会。
I create a pathway for that to happen.
我觉得你必须这么做，创造自然发展的机会，和你真正欣赏的人建立关系。
I And think that's what you have to do, create pathways for that to happen naturally and organically, build a relationship with someone who you value.
说到指导，我刚认识印德拉的时候，她正在推自己的书，想请一些妈妈们帮忙写推荐语，我就说，要不要找敏迪·卡灵？
And also I would say in mentoring, when, I first met Indra, she was, launching her book and she she wanted like mothers to, you know, write the blurb for them and I was like, oh, what about Mindy Kaling?
还有谁我可以帮忙牵线呢？
What about who else did I get?
我找了敏迪，还有另外一个人。
I got Mindy and then someone else.
现在我记不清另一个是谁了。
I can't remember who else now.
但重点是，我也给她带来了价值。
But the point is like I brought value to her too.
这不是单方面的付出。
It wasn't a one way street.
我觉得，当你在找导师的时候，也要让他们看到你的实力。
And I think that when you're looking for mentors, go and show them how powerful you are too.
对。
Yeah.
这本来就是互相的。
It's a two way thing.
要让他们主动想当你的导师。
Make them want to mentor you.
要让他们想把你纳入自己的圈子。
Make them want you in their orbit.
展现你的价值。
Show your value.
我觉得我这一生一直在做的是，真正地为别人带来价值。
And I think that's what I've done my entire life is, like, really show value to people.
其实我并不是刻意这么做的，只是因为我觉得自己天生就该如此。
Actually not doing it purposefully, just doing that because I guess I'm in service.
你懂的。
You know?
对。
Yeah.
我从来没听人这么说过。
I've I've never heard someone put it like that.
我喜欢这个想法——是导师选择你，你说得太对了。
I love the idea that the mentor picks you, and you're so, so right.
有些人就是让我觉得特别舒服，不管是他们的想法，
Like, there are people that I just feel genuinely good about, whether it's their idea,
还是
whether
他们的气场，或者就是他们的精神气质。
it's their energy, whether it's just their spirit.
我就想，我得多花点时间和这个人聊聊，比谁都多。
And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna spend more time talking to this person than anyone else.
即使有人更积极、更怎么样，也不是那个原因。
Even if someone was more eager or more whatever, it wasn't that.
你说得太对了。
It was, you're so right.
从来没人这么说过。
No one's ever said it like that before.
我以前听过很多关于导师制的说法，但你说得对，你没法说服别人花时间、投资你、专门关注你。
I've always heard other things about mentorship, but you're absolutely right that you can't convince someone to give you their time and invest in you and focus on you in that way.
你没法强迫别人喜欢你。
Look, you can't convince someone to love you.
没错。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
我从你的八条规则里，也明白了这一点。
In the same way, I think I got that out of your eight rules.
你没法强迫别人爱你，越使劲越没用。
Like, you can't make some you can't love someone harder to make them love you.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yes.
没错。
Yes.
没错。
Yes.
导师关系也是同样的道理。
And it's the same with mentorship.
你没法强迫别人去做这种事。
It's like you can't force someone to do that.
我是劳丽·西格尔，一名资深科技记者。
I'm Laurie Siegel, a longtime tech journalist.
欢迎收听我的新播客《 Mostly Human 》，它将带你通往未来。
And consider my new podcast, Mostly Human, your bridge to the future.
现在任何人都可以成为创业者。
Anyone can now be an entrepreneur.
任何人都能开发一款应用，这真的让人充满力量。
Anyone can build an app, and it's very empowering.
每周我都会采访那些正在塑造未来的人，一起剖析这些创新究竟对你意味着什么。
Each week, I'll speak to the people building that future, and we're gonna break down what all of this innovation actually means for you.
我逐渐意识到，当人们以为自己在和AI伴侣约会时，其实他们是在和开发这款产品的公司约会。
What I come to realize is that when people think that they're dating this AI companion, they're actually dating the company that create this.
我们正经历人类历史上最迅猛的技术变革之一。
We're experiencing one of the greatest tech accelerations in human history.
但说实话，这事儿确实挺乱的。
And let's be honest, that can be messy.
根本没现成的指南
There's no playbook
当AI编造出关于你的虚假故事时，你该怎么做？
for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you.
但我相信，我们都应该从这个时代中获益。
But it's my belief that we should all benefit from this moment.
《 Mostly Human 》会告诉你怎么做。
Mostly Human will show you how.
怎么做。
How.
我的目标就是给你一份指南，让你也能从中受益。
My goal is to give you the playbook so you can benefit.
我之所以强调自主权，是因为如果我们能把权力还给普通人，那可能是对心理健康最好的做法。
The reason I say agency is because, like, if we can give power back to people, then I think that's probably the best thing we can do for your mental health.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客，或者你平时听节目的任何平台收听《Mostly Human》。
Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
百分之二。
2%.
在有自动扶梯可用的情况下，只有百分之二的人会选择走楼梯。
That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.
我是迈克尔·伊斯特，我的播客《2%》会剖析心理韧性、健身，以及在我们这个奇特的现代社会中如何培养抗压能力。
I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world.
我会采访作家、研究者，还有其他健康与健身领域的专家，拨开那些不切实际、过于复杂的伪科学迷雾，这些伪科学现在在
I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the
健康行业里太泛滥了。
wellness industry.
我们一直坚信种子油本身就会引发炎症。
We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory.
我们搞错了。
We got it wrong.
我们今天对世界上许多事情感到焦虑，其实都是压力造成的。
Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.
主动经历一些困难，你会在熬过去之后变得更快乐、更充实、也更健康。
Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.
收听《2%》，就是这个2%，在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts，或者你平时听播客的任何平台。
Listen to 2%, that's 2%, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
你好。
Hi.
我是乔·温斯坦因，播客《灵性女儿》的主持人，我们聊占星、星盘，还有怎么活出最鲜活的人生。
This is Jo Winterstein, host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life.
我刚和一个迷你驾驶器坐在一起。
And I just sat down with a mini driver.
一位爱尔兰旅行者跟我说，你16岁的时候，会在男人身上吃尽苦头。
The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're gonna have a terrible time with men.
演员、讲故事的人，也是毫不掩饰的水瓶座理想主义者。
Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary.
水瓶座的人特别崇尚自由，喜欢独特的视角。
Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.
我发现很多水星或天王星在水瓶座的人，常常被别人误解。
And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius, like, are misunderstood.
她的第七宫有太阳和金星落在水瓶座，这让她对感情关系有着非常非传统的态度。
A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to to partnership.
他真的
He really
教会了我接纳人们睡在不同的房间、住在不同的地方，只是单纯地接受一切本来的样子。
has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.
如果你正在经历自己的转变，或者只是想看看一位顶尖艺术家如何把占星、创意和现实生活融合在一起，这一集绝对值得一听。
If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen.
从2月24日起，收听《Spirit Daughter》播客，可在iHeartRadio、Apple Podcasts，或你常用的播客平台收听。
Listen to the spirit daughter podcast starting on February 24 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast.
关于派尔，有趣的是，她来找我的时候，是想筹钱。
The funny thing about Pyle, when she came to me, she wanted to raise money.
那时候，我是为数不多的筹集到风险投资的南亚女性之一。
I was probably one of the few South Asian women at that time that had raised venture capital.
所以她来找我，因为我已经融过资，她想请我帮忙。
So she was kind of came to me because I'd raised capital and she wanted help.
后来我们就这么一路走到了今天。
And that's the journey that we sort of ended up going on to.
但有意思的是，我问她：你打算在哪里开展这个项目？
But what was interesting was I said to her, I was like, where are you gonna work with this idea?
等我决定要指导她、帮她之后，我又问：你到底打算在哪工作？
And once I committed to mentoring and helping out, I was like, where are you gonna work?
她回答：在星巴克。
And she was like, in Starbucks.
我说：我办公室里有两个空桌子，你拿去用吧。
And I was like, I have two desks in my office, you can have them.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
然后她每天都跟我在一起，我们就这样一起摸索着前进。我坐在我的办公桌前，她坐在她的办公桌前，她就会过来跟我说：‘安吉，你觉得这个点子怎么样？’
And then she was with me every single day and we were like, you know, kind of going through, like, it was just I was sitting at my desk, she was sitting at her desk and she'd like, hey, Anj, what do you think about this idea?
你觉得这个想法如何？
What do you think about that?
我真的特别享受那段经历的每一刻。
So, but I I loved every single minute of that experience.
我和派尔之间，她一直叫我导师，但说实话，现在反而是她在指导我。
And I would say, you know, with Pyle and I, she always called me her mentor, but I would say we're like, she's my she mentors me now.
是她教会了我如何转型。
She taught me how to pivot.
在遇到她之前，我根本不知道什么叫转型。
I never knew how to pivot before I met her.
真厉害。
Wow.
我先想跟你聊聊转型的事。
Talk to me about I wanna talk about pivoting in a second.
你能不能说说，你是怎么选那些你去指导的人的？我觉得这点对很多人来说也很重要，知道你的导师选择了你，但到底是什么让Pyle特别呢？
Talk to me about how you pick people you mentor because I think it's important for people to hear that too, knowing that your mentor picks you, but like what was it about Pyo?
你过去合作过的其他人里，是什么让你觉得，这个人值得我花时间和精力去帮？
What was it about other people that you've worked with that you went, I'm gonna put my time and energy into this person?
说到Pyle，我就想说，她自己也总这么说。
You know, with Pyel, I just and she always says this.
她说，你在我还不知道自己是谁的时候，就已经看出我是谁了。
She goes, you knew who I was before I knew who I was.
我就觉得，她注定是个天才。
I just knew she was a star.
就是那种说不清道不明的感觉。
I I it's that je ne sais quoi.
就是那种独特的魅力。
It's it's that it's that magic.
就是那种内在的气质。
It's that essence.
我就知道她具备所有这些特质的组合。
I just knew she had all the combination.
她很有魅力。
She was charismatic.
她特别有趣。
She was fun.
她很聪明。
She was smart.
她能很快理清头绪。
She could figure things out.
我能看得出她是怎么思考的。
I could see her brain work.
说来还挺搞笑的。
Like, I could it's so funny.
有一次我和一群朋友在玩一个游戏，Pyo一进来，居然一秒就赢了。
I was playing this game sequence with a bunch of my friends once and Pyre walks in and she just like wins a game in one second.
我们根本没教过她怎么玩这个游戏。
We didn't even teach her how to play the game.
我当时就问她，你是怎么做到的？
Like, and I was saying, how did you do that?
她说，我也不知道。
She goes, I don't know.
你只说要我排个序列，我就照做了。
You told me I need to make a sequence and I did it.
她真的太聪明了。
She's just so brilliant.
她的脑子简直太灵光了。
Like her brain is so brilliant.
我当时就看出来了。
And I saw that.
我简直能看见她脑子里的齿轮在飞快转动。
It's like I could literally see the wheels turning in her mind.
我觉得这是多种因素共同作用的结果。
So I think it's a combination of things.
就像我说的，这真的很难。
And like I say, it's very hard.
这完全是出于本能。
It's it's so instinctual.
我的整个职业生涯其实都靠的是直觉。
Like so much my career has been about instinct.
对我来说，就是凭直觉行事。
Like, and for for me, it's just instinct.
我想聊聊直觉，因为你之前说你从来没有什么地图，我特别认同这一点。
I wanted to talk about instinct because I love what you said about the idea that you never had a map.
对。
Yeah.
从来都没有。
Never.
我这辈子也完全认同这一点。
I completely agree with that for my life.
估计你从来也没过什么地图吧。
Probably never had one either,
如果没有现成的路可走，你根本不可能做我这种事，因为这事儿根本就不存在。
You don't you don't get you don't do what I'm doing if there's no map for this because it didn't even exist.
你也是这样。
Same with you.
这事儿根本没地图可循，也没多少案例能让你照着走。
Like, there's no map for this, and there's not many case studies to be able to have a map.
对吧？
Right?
地图是有人从A做到B、从C做到D，而且这事儿以前有人干过。
A map is when someone scaled a company from this to this and that to that, and it's been done before.
但当你在摸索自己的路时，我很欣赏你说的——你靠直觉行事。和你相处这么久，我深深感受到你确实一直这样，不管外面发生什么，你都始终坚持自己的直觉。
But when you're doing things that you're kind of finding your own way, I love that you said you followed your instinct and you definitely from the amount of time I've spent with you, I feel that with you and you always follow it regardless of what's going on.
你能不能说说，你是怎么建立起对直觉的信任的？我觉得每个人都想找一张地图。
Talk to me about how you built up trust in your instinct because I think everyone's looking for a map.
你之前提到，人需要目标，因为需要有个方向来推动自己。
And what you said earlier, you said people need goals because you need something out there to drive you.
直觉呢，是你从内心出发，自己驱动自己。
Instinct is you driving yourself from here.
这几乎是自内而外，而不是自外而内。
It's almost like inside out rather than outside in.
你是从哪儿学会发现、倾听并依靠自己的直觉的？
Where did you learn to find your instinct, listen to your instinct, drive from that instinct?
这种能力是从哪儿来的？
Where did that come from?
其实根本没什么地图可言，我别无选择。
The whole mapless piece, just didn't have a choice.
所以我只能靠自己在生活中做决定，而别人根本不懂。
So then I had to make decisions through my life, and they don't know.
那些决定都是凭直觉做的，因为我根本不知道还能怎么选。
They were just made through instincts because I didn't know how else to make decisions.
但我可以告诉你一件事，这是我后半生一直奉行的金玉良言，只是来得比较晚。
But one thing I will tell you which is a brilliant piece of advice that I've lived my life on, but it came later in life.
所以这并不能直接回答你的问题，因为我早就开始依赖直觉做决定了。
So it doesn't answer your question exactly because I I started working with my instinct way before this.
吉米·伊奥温曾经对我说，我问他：你总能看透下一步，你是怎么做到的？
But Jimmy Iovine always said to me, I said to him, you you're so brilliant at seeing around corners, how do you see around corners?
你怎么知道接下来会发生什么？
How do you know what's coming next?
他看着我说：就是你一直在做的事。
And he looked at me and he said, it's the thing that you do.
我问：我做什么？
And I go, what do I do?
我根本不知道自己在做什么，我到底在做什么？
I don't know what I do, what do I do?
他说，你用耳朵来配合你的嘴巴。
And he said, you use your ears in relation to your mouth.
你有两只耳朵，却只有一个嘴巴。
So you have two ears and you have one mouth.
我当时就说，哦，明白了。
And I was like, okay.
他还说，我一直在观察你。
And he goes, I've watched you.
你很会听。
You listen.
你特别善于倾听。
You listen a lot.
他说，你说话多，做事也多。
He said, you say a lot and you do a lot.
但他指出，你其实听的比说的和做的都要多。
He said, but you actually listen more than you do or say.
他说，你得留意那些一直在发生的对话。
And he was like, you have to listen to the constant conversations that are happening.
所以，我投资ClassPass的另一个原因，是我们都认识的好朋友罗汉，有一天他突然来我家，说：‘我刚去上了SoulCycle的课。’
So one of the other reasons why I invested in ClassPass, our dear friend Rohan Ozer, who we both know, he walked into my apartment one day and he was like, oh, I just went to SoulCycle.
听起来太棒了。
It's like amazing.
我当时就说：‘SoulCycle？’
And I was like, SoulCycle?
SoulCycle是什么？
What's SoulCycle?
他接着问：‘你真不知道SoulCycle是什么？’
And he was like, you know what SoulCycle is?
安，现在人人都在离开健身房，转去上SoulCycle了。
Anj, everyone's quitting the gyms and going to Soul Cycle.
我当时就说：‘哦，这样啊。’
And I was like, oh, okay.
那时候，人们真的纷纷退出健身房，转而去上Barry's Boot Camp这类课程，还得提前预约。
And then it was at that time that people were literally quitting gyms and going to Barry's Boot Camp and going to these, like, appointment Yes.
就是那种健身课。
You know, fitness classes.
我当时就觉得，这太有意思了。
I was like, oh, that's so interesting.
大家都说，我要去Pop Physique。
And everyone was like, oh, I'm going to Pop Physique.
我要去Barry's Boot Camp。
I'm going to Barry's Boot Camp.
我要去这家。
I'm going to this.
我要去那家。
I'm going to that.
所以当Pyle来找我，提出这个课程预约平台的想法时，那时候人们找课程还得一个个打电话问有没有空位？
So when Pyle came to me with this open table for classes, that at that time, the way people were finding classes where they were literally calling up the class Really?
你那时候在餐厅里。
You were in a restaurant.
以前还没OpenTable或者Resi的时候，你得打电话给餐厅。
Like back in the day before it was OpenTable or Resi, you would be calling
打电话问餐厅有没有位子，对吧。
up restaurant, right,
看看有什么空位。
seeing what availability you had.
当
When
天哪，我真把这事儿忘了。
Pyo God, I forgot that.
真是没想到，变化这么快。
I've got, completely it's crazy how quick things change.
所以当Pyo跟我说，哦，对了。
So when Pyo said to me, oh, yeah.
这说白了就是一个平台。
You know, it's basically a platform.
就像是给课程用的OpenTable。
It's kinda like OpenTable for classes.
她当时就是这么跟我说的。
That was exactly what she said to me.
就在那之前几天，罗汉还在我家，一直说人人都在上各种课。
And literally, like, days before, Rohan Rohan had been in my apartment going on about everyone's going to classes.
后来我搬到纽约，想找家健身房，当时就在想：要不要办个Equinox的会员？
And then I just moved to New York and I was trying to find a gym and I was like, should I join Equinox?
结果大家都说：别去。
And everyone was like, no.
别去。
No.
别去。
No.
就去上这些课吧。
Just go to these classes.
去这儿就行。
Go to this.
去那儿就行。
Go to that.
就像我说的，这纯粹是我自己在听。
Like so, again, like, that's just me listening.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
你懂的吧？
You know?
那太好了。
So That's great.
当我决定投资派尔的时候，就是一直在听，直觉告诉我：所有迹象都指向肯定。
So when I made that decision to invest in Pyle, it was like me just doing a lot of listening and my instinct going, all the clues are telling you yes.
我刚开始和普里扬卡合作时，也发生过类似的情况。
And there was another time that happened when I first started working with Priyanka.
我和吉米·伊奥维内一起签了她，打算把她打造成流行巨星。
I signed her, to a record label with Jimmy Iovine, and we were gonna turn her into a pop star.
我们录了不少歌，但就是没火起来。
And, you know, we did a bunch of records and, you know, it just wasn't hitting.
效果不对劲。
It wasn't working.
他一直跟我说，我们早了整整二十年。
As he kept telling me, we were like twenty two twenty years too early.
他就是这么说的。
That's what he said.
他说，整个南亚音乐圈的情况是，他明白你想做什么，但就是早了二十年。
He was like, the whole sort of South Asian music scene, he was like, I get what you wanna do, but twenty years too early.
他关于这个时间点的判断，大概是对的，对吧？
He's probably right about that timeline, isn't
是的。
Yeah.
这都快二十年前的事了。
This was like nearly twenty years ago.
所以当初对Priyanka，大家都说，哦，那这事就算了吧。
So with Priyanka, like so, you know, people were like, oh, well, that's done then.
这行不通的。
That's not gonna work.
她该回印度去算了。
She should go back to India and whatever.
我说，不行。
I was like, no.
这位女士可是印度最受尊敬的女演员之一。
This woman is like one of our most celebrated actresses in India.
她真的特别出色。
Like, you know, she was incredible.
那时候，我开始留意周围人的讨论。
And at that time, I started listening to conversations.
大家当时都在聊些什么？
What was everybody talking about?
那时候人人都在谈怎么摆脱谋杀指控、《实习医生格蕾》，还有那些充满丑闻的剧集——主角都是多元背景的女性，那真是电视的黄金时代，电视行业重新崛起，连拿过奥斯卡的演员都开始拍电视剧了，而以前大家觉得电视剧是低人一等的。
And everybody at that time was talking about how to get away with murder and Grey's Anatomy and all of these like scandal and all of these shows where, you know, they had these diverse female leads and it was like the golden age of television, and television was coming back, and you had Academy Award winning actors acting in TV, which was previous to that considered like down there.
没错。
Absolutely.
当时电视界正经历一场巨大的文化变革。
There was this huge cultural shift happening with television.
所以我跟Priyanka提了拍电视剧的事，她一开始根本没兴趣。
So, you know, I pitched Pri about doing a TV show, and at first she was really like not into it.
她当时说，你知道的，我是个电影演员。
She was like, you know, I'm a movie actress.
我的意思是，我们拍电影的。
Like, you know, we do movies.
在她眼里，印度的电视剧根本不上台面。
And in her mind was TV in India was X.
但就像我说的，那时候全球电视行业正经历一场巨变。
But, you know, like I said, we were in this, like, massive global shift where TV and was was in this different place.
总之，我说服了她去试镜《重案组》，后来她成功拿到了角色，这部剧就成了她的代表作。
So, anyway, I convinced her to to to go and we auditioned for Quantico and eventually she got it and that became her show.
那是ABC的一部剧，我跟选角导演说，她就是下一个多元化的女性主角。
And that was an ABC drama where I convinced the casting director that, this was her next female, diverse lead.
但话说回来，要不是我一直在留意大家在聊什么，我也不会突然意识到：别再做音乐了，咱们转战电视吧。
So but again, if I hadn't been listening to what everyone was talking about, I wouldn't have had the instinct to go, we're not gonna do any more music, we're gonna go and hit television.
你解释得真清楚。
You explained that so well.
这真是句极好的建议，因为我一直觉得人可以分成三类。
That that is a great piece of advice because I always think about it as there's three types of people.
一类是只跟着走的人，一类是能看懂趋势的人，还有一类是创造趋势的人。
There's the people that consume patterns, There's the people who see patterns and then the people who create patterns.
其实大多数人只是在旁观。
And it's almost like most of us are just watching.
我们只是在看剧。
So we're watching the shows.
我们去上Soul Cycle课。
We're going to Soul Cycle.
对。
Yeah.
我们做着所有这些事，却没留意到更高一层的人是怎么想的——他们看到大家都去上Soul Cycle，就会想，咦，这背后有门道。
We're doing all the things, but we're not noticing which the person above does where they're like, oh, I can see everyone's going Soul Cycle, what you just said.
人人都在上Soul Cycle，这明显就是一种趋势。
Everyone's going soul cycle, like there's patterns here.
而像你和Pile这样的人，则是去创造模式——看到大家都去练Soul Cycle，就决定打造一个让大家真正参与进去的东西。
And then you've got the people like yourself and pile and others who go and create patterns, which is like, oh, okay, we're gonna build the thing that everyone will actually do this pattern through that we see.
对。
Yeah.
但我们大多数人只停留在第一层，就是觉得：哦，想去练Soul Cycle。
And most of us just stay on like level one where we're like, oh yeah, wanna go soul cycle.
我想喝抹茶。
I wanna drink matcha.
我想做各种各样的事。
I wanna whatever it may be.
但上面还有两个层次，有人在往下看，心想：对，这就是我要打造的东西。
But there's two levels above where someone's looking down going, oh yeah, this is what I'm gonna build.
这真是句很棒的建议。
And that's great advice.
和你相处这么久，你特别擅长让人信服各种事情。
From the time that we've spent together, you're just so good at convincing people of stuff.
你就是特别有说服力，而且这种说服力是真诚的。
Like, feel like you're just, you're so convincing, but it's honest convincing.
我不是说这有什么套路或者伪装的技巧。
Like, don't think it's a, I don't just think it's a fake technique.
你根本不是那种人。
It's not like, it's, you're not like that.
你就是真的对你做的事充满热情。
It's like, it's very, you're passionate about the stuff you do.
对了，我以前也试过‘假装直到成功’这一套。
By the way, did fake it till I made it.
明白了。
Okay.
那你能不能跟我聊聊，到底要具备哪些能力，才能让人看到你看到的东西？
So so talk to me about what are the skills that you need to persuade and convince people to see what you see?
我觉得，不管在生活还是工作中，每个人都该去上点表演课。
Well, so first thing I would say, anybody in life, in business, should go to drama school.
对吧？
Right?
我不是说你得把戏剧学校当专业来读。
And I don't mean drama school like that should be your degree.
我是说你该去参加即兴表演课。
I mean, you should go to improv.
只要你有点紧张或焦虑，就该去上一堂即兴课，因为即兴表演，你知道那是什么意思。
Like if you have any form of anxiety at all, you need to get yourself into an improv class because improv, you know what improvisation is.
对吧？
Right?
你直接就跳进一个场景里。
You'll you'll just jump into a scene.
对吧？
Right?
比如你和我，俩人随便演个场景，想到哪演到哪。
So you and I would be in a scene and we'd just create a scene and we'd just go on the fly.
我一直想当演员。
And I wanted to be an actress.
那就是我想要的职业，但九十年代在英国，一个棕色皮肤的女孩想当演员实在太难了，所以我决定不想穷，这也是我很大的动力。
Like, that's what I wanted to be, but it was really difficult for a brown girl in the 90s to be an actress in England so I decided I didn't wanna be poor, that was also a big driver for me.
我不想穷得天天去试镜，可适合我的角色又少得可怜，所以我决定要当个有钱的女商人。
I was like I don't wanna be poor and be trying to go from audition to audition when it's very limited roles for me so I wanna be a rich businesswoman.
那时候我根本没想过要进电影圈、搞表演之类的事，我就只想做生意。
I never actually decided at that point I wanted to be in in the movies or in talent or anything like that, I just wanted to be in business.
但我得说，即兴表演真的帮我太大了，它让我学会不管被扔进什么情况，都能应付自如。
But one thing I will say to you is that whole like improv has just been amazing I just allowing myself to be thrown into any situation and be able to swim in it.
要是我不懂该怎么做，我就装作懂的样子。
Like and if I didn't, like, know what I was doing, I would fake it.
我知道这说法争议挺大的。
And I know there's a lot of controversy around that.
我猜你们肯定也讨论过这个。
I'm sure you guys have discussed it,
我肯定你也
and I'm sure you've
在你的节目里听过有人说这么做太糟糕了，但我确实装过，而且我是从肢体语言开始的，从我的说话方式，从这些你从别人身上学到的小细节开始的。
had people on your show say that is a terrible thing to do but I did fake it and it started with my body language, it started with my, the way I speak, it started with all these you know small cues that you pick up from people.
说来好笑，就比如我现在坐的这个姿势，这才是我真正舒服的状态。
Like it's so funny like even just this, like the way I'm sitting right now, like this is my innate comfort.
我跟你在一起很放松，所以身体是敞开的，腿虽然交叉着。
I'm very comfortable with you, I'm sitting with all my body language open, my legs are crossed however.
但早年在那些我不够自信的商务场合，我其实想表现得像这样。
But when I was you know in early business situations where I didn't feel confident, you know how I'd wanna be was like this.
就是把自己缩起来，但我硬是把肩膀往后拉。
Like, I would wanna be all closed up, but I would force my shoulders back.
我强迫自己把胳膊伸开。
I'd force my arms out.
我有时候还会做这个动作，因为这本身就是自信的表现。
I would, you know, sometimes do this because that's just a sign of confidence.
你就会觉得自己特别自在
Like, you you you feel good in your own
皮肤里。
skin.
是的。
Yeah.
你一这么做，我就立刻看出来了。
Saw it immediately when you did that.
心想，哇。
Was like, wow.
这太神奇了。
That was crazy.
真的太
It's so
荒唐了，但又特别
silly and it's so
这太荒谬了，对吧？
It's ridiculous, isn't it?
对女性来说，这事儿其实特别简单，就是
And for women, it's such an easy thing to It's
说实话吧，我有也行，没也行。
kinda like, yeah, I could take it or leave it.
说白了，我其实只是想说，但关键是
Like, that's basically But what I'm
要说服别人，其实有几点要注意。
the way to convince people well, it's a couple of things.
我这一辈子，为别人、为自己、为各种项目，筹过不少钱。
Like, so, you know, I've raised a lot of money through my career for other people, for myself, for different projects.
说实话，我算得上是个顶尖的筹款人。早年有人给我提过一个建议：你想筹钱，就先去讨教；你想讨教，就直接要钱。
I'm honestly, I'm sort of a bit of a ultimate fundraiser and someone gave me this piece of advice very early on and they said, you wanna raise money, ask for advice, and if you want advice, ask for money.
我这一路都照着这个方法做。
And I used that through my whole life.
我从来没
I never
再这么做过，太棒了。
again, that's so good.
是的。
Yeah.
想要钱，就去讨教；想要建议，就去要钱，因为本质上你最终会得到相反的东西。
If you want money, ask for advice, and if you want advice, ask for money because basically you'll get the opposite.
对。
Yeah.
现在呢，现在大家都
So now now now people are
看了这个就会想，哦，原来她当时是在向我推销。
gonna watch this go, oh, she was selling to me that time.
明白了。
Okay.
有时候我会用那种方法去说服别人买东西。
There are times when I sold to people using that technique.
是的。
Yeah.
但说实话，现在我已经
But the truth is, like, now I'm
到了一个不得不去筹钱的地步。
at this point where I can't help raising money.
真的，我就是跟人聊聊，人家反而主动要给我钱。
Like, literally, like, I just talk to people and they're offering me money all the time.
不管什么项目、什么点子，都这样。
It's so insane for any venture, any idea.
我一说有个想法，人家就问：‘你要不要融资？’
I'll go, I had this idea and they're like, do you wanna raise money for that?
我就说：‘不用，我不需要。’
And I'm like, no, I don't.
我是真的想为这个项目融资。
I wanna raise money for that.
但关键在于，你必须对对方真正关心的事情充满热情和好奇心。
But the point is is like, you've really just got to be so passionate and curious about what that person's interested in.
不好意思，我打断一下。
So I'm sorry.
我想回到刚才的问题，你是怎么说服别人的？
I'm trying to get back to the question of how how are you convincing?
我到底是怎么说服别人的？
How am I convincing?
首先，我会弄清楚你对什么感兴趣。
So first off, I'll figure out what you're interested in.
我绝不会跟一个人聊他们根本不感兴趣的事情。
Like, will never talk to some someone about something that I don't think they're interested in.
这一点太重要了。
Such an important point.
我还会去试各种方法，对吧？
And I will also test things, right?
所以呢，我特别擅长看人的肢体表现，那个叫什么来着，读身体的人？
So again, I'm a really good like body, what's that called, body reader?
不是。
No.
肢体语言。
Body language.
对，就是肢体语言。
Body language yeah.
只要我一提起某个话题，你要是没兴趣，我马上就能从你的肢体动作上看出来，一秒钟的事。
So like I can see immediately if I bring something up and you're not interested, your body language will tell me in a second, right?
所以首先，我得清楚我的听众是谁。
So first off, I know my audience.
我能感知现场的气氛。
I read the room.
我了解我的听众。
I know my audience.
是的。
Yeah.
我只会讲跟这个人相关的内容。
And I will only talk about things that are relevant to that person.
一旦我摸清了听众是谁，也知道他们感兴趣，我就会留意他们真正兴奋的点，只顺着他们感兴趣的方向继续聊下去。
So once I know my audience and I know that person's interested, I just look for all the cues about what lights them up, what's interesting to them, and I only go keep going on the things that I think they're interested in.
这其实就是不断在跟听众确认他们的反应。
So it's just a constant, like, checking in with your audience.
我看过别人推销，他们就会
I I watch people sell and they will
就只是说，好吧。
just be like, okay.
所以我会
So I
他接受了这个想法，也想这么做。
bought this idea and I wanna do this.
我要做这个、这个、这个，他能赚好多钱，这有多棒，等等等等。
I'm gonna do this and this and this and this so much money he's gonna make and this is why it's so good and blah blah blah.
他们根本没留意我的反应。
And they've zero checked in with me.
连看都不看我一眼。
They're not even looking at me.
我甚至可能在看手机。
I could be looking at my phone.
我可能转过头去，但他们还是不停地说，觉得这俩分钟是他们向我推销的唯一机会，就一直说个不停。
I could be looking away, but they just keep going because they think that's their two minutes to get to me and like they're just gonna keep going, keep going.
我真希望他们能停下来问问，你对这个感兴趣吗？你觉得怎么样？之类的。
And like, I wish they'd just stop and check-in with me and say, does this even interest you or what do you think about that or whatever?
所以我觉得，这部分原因就在这儿。
So I think part of it is that.
所以我觉得关键就是不断确认对方的想法。
So I think it's just constantly checking in.
然后呢，还得保持真正的好奇心。
And then I think it's just like being so curious.
这从来就不是单向的对话。
It's not a one way conversation ever.
如果变成单向输出，那你就麻烦了。
And if it's a one way conversation, you're in trouble.
卖东西根本不是单向说话。
Like, selling is not a one way conversation.
我记得我刚找第一份销售工作的时候，有个女面试官跟我说：好，你来给我推销一部电影。
Like I remember when I first went for my first sales job, the woman interviewed me and she said, okay, I want you to sell me a movie.
我说：行啊。
And I go, okay.
她接着说：你就想一部你最近一个月内看过的电影，然后把它卖给我。
She was like, I said, she goes, think of a movie that you've seen in the last, you know, month and sell it to me.
我就说，好啊。
And I go, okay.
然后我问，你平时喜欢什么类型的电影？
And I go, what kind of movies are you into?
她回答，我喜欢惊悚片。
And she goes, I like thrillers.
我喜欢什么什么的。
I like blah blah blah.
我就说，好啊。
And I go, okay.
那你喜欢哪种惊悚片？
What kind of thrillers do you like?
比如，你最近看过哪部特别喜欢的电影？
Like, what was the last movie you watched that you loved?
她问，你怎么知道该这么问的？
And she goes, how did you know how to do that?
我问她，你这话是什么意思？
And I go, what do you mean?
她说，你刚才问我问题，然后自己就开始讲起周六看的那部电影，说有多好看，还让我一定去瞧瞧。
She goes, well, you asked me questions while then go, I saw this movie on Saturday and it was x y z and it was so good and you should go and watch it.
我当时就说，我真的不知道。
I was like, I don't know.
我不想推荐你根本不感兴趣的东西。
I don't wanna sell you something that's not interesting to you.
对啊。
Yeah.
过去一个月我看了不少电影。
Like, I've watched quite a few movies in the last month.
其中任何一部都可能适合你。
Any one of those could be good for you.
所以我觉得，关键是要真正对你的观众感兴趣，带着热情去了解，看看什么能点燃他们的眼神，发现他们真正热衷的是什么。
So I think it's just being really curious about your audience too, and then approaching it with passion and seeing what lights their eyes up and seeing seeing what they're passionate about.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，最典型的例子就是你是怎么跟Priyanka搭上关系的？
I mean, the best case study of it is probably how did you connect with Priyanka?
因为你说过，Priyanka是位了不起的顶级宝莱坞女星，要说服这样的明星来这边发展，甚至愿意尝试在这里建立事业，已经很难了，更别说还要做得出色。
Because that a vision you had for her to like because, you know, like you said, Priyanka's an amazing, huge Bollywood actress at and the it's not easy to convince stars to come over and even want to attempt having a career here, let alone having a great career here.
对。
Yeah.
跟我说说这件事吧。
Talk to me about that.
这其实是个特别有意思的故事，跟刚才我说的完全不一样。
Well that's like such a funny story because that is nothing like what I just told you.
关于Priyanka的事是这样的——
Because, so what happened with Priyanka, it's
这事儿挺有意思的，很多年前，我还在圈外的时候，去父母家看电视，第一次看到她，那一刻我就觉得她特别不一样。
a funny story, I saw her on TV at my mom and dad's house years and years before I was even in the business and I looked at her and something spoke to me.
这是选美冠军吗？
Is this Miss World or no?
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
她演过一部叫《骗术大师》的电影，
She was in this movie called Bluff Master and
她当时
she was
在跳一种嘻哈风格的舞蹈。
doing this hip hop spook.
我知道这部电影。
I know that movie.
我当时
And I
我在英国我妈家看电视时刚看到她，说实话，我也不太确定。
just saw her on TV at my mom's house in England, and I I don't know.
这事明显就是命中注定，我一去我妈家就问：‘那女的是谁？’
This thing, it clearly was my destiny because I just go to my mom, oh, who's that?
我妈说：‘那是Priyanka Chopra，在印度可是大明星，等等等等。'
And my mom goes, that's Priyanka Chopra, and she's like this huge star in India, blah blah blah.
我当时就记在心里了，因为那会儿我在搞科技。
And I just filed it away because I was in tech.
那阵子我忙着别的事。
I was doing a bunch of other things.
那时候我还没创办Desi Hits呢。
I hadn't even founded Desi hits at that point.
那都是很久以前的事了。
Like, it was way before.
真厉害。
Wow.
我就把这件事记下来了
And I just filed it away.
结果多年之后，我和吉米·艾欧文一起待在办公室里，当时我们刚做完《贫民窟的百万富翁》的全部配乐，这首歌在十个国家都挤进了排行榜前十，成了全球大热的作品，他特别开心，还说我听了
Anyway, years later, I'm sitting in an office with Jimmy Iovine and we'd just done all the music for Slumdog Millionaire and it was top 10 in 10 countries and it was like this big global hit and he was so happy and he was like, I listened to
你的建议，结果真的成了，他那时候整个人
you and it worked and he was like, he's he was
他本身就是那样的人，特别爽快真诚
just he's he's that guy.
他整个人充满活力，又特别有上进心。
He's like full of like life and ambition.
当时他一个劲问我，接下来我们要做什么？
He was like, what are we doing next?
我就跟他说，吉米，我很久以前在电视上见过一个叫普里扬卡·乔普拉的女人，她是个超级大牌的明星，诸如此类的话。
And I just go, Jimmy, you know, there's this woman, Priyanka Chopra, that I saw on TV ages ago and she's this huge star and blah blah blah.
于是我们开始拍关于她的视频传到YouTube上，这时候他突然问我，她会唱歌吗？
We start YouTubing videos of her And he goes, can she sing?
就在那时候，我正忙着在印度推广Lady Gaga。
And randomly at that time, I was launching Lady Gaga in India.
真的吗。
Wow.
我当时跟两位制作人萨利姆和苏莱曼合作，他们刚好也随机录了Priyanka的一段小样。
And I was working with these two producers, Salim and Suleiman, and they had just recorded a demo with Priyanka randomly.
这又是一场命中注定。
Again, it was all destiny.
我觉得这一切都是注定的。
I feel like this is all destiny.
我就问他们：你们认识Priyanka吗？
I said to them, oh, do you know Priyanka?
他们当然认识。
And they were, of course.
我就问：你觉得她能唱歌吗？
And I was like, do you think she can sing?
他们说：其实我们刚录完这个小样。
And they were like, actually, we just recorded this demo.
我就问，能不能发给我一份？
So I go, do you mind sending it to me?
他们说：不行。
And they were like, no.
我们真不能这么干。
We can't really do that.
就是一堆借口。
Blah blah blah.
我当时也挺懵的。
And I and I I don't know.
但我最后说服了他们，答应只我会听，最多再加一个人。
I convinced them because I'm convincing to send it to me and I promised them it would only be me that would listen to it and maybe one other person.
我就把小样发给了吉米，他说：她确实唱得不错。
So I send it to Jimmy and he goes, well, she can sing.
他说，咱们就这么干吧。
And he goes, let's just do it.
我问，你这‘就这么干’是什么意思？
And I go, what do you mean let's just do it?
他说，就是
He goes, well, let's
签了她。
sign her.
这是唱片合约。
It's a record deal.
我说，我连她都不认识。
And I go, I don't
我根本没见过她。
even know her.
后来是通过一些人——我想应该是萨利姆介绍的——我才联系上她。记得那次电话沟通，简直是我打过最糟的一通电话。
And through like different people, actually I think it was through Salim, I got to her and I, yeah, I remember doing this phone call with her and it was the worst phone call ever.
她当时在丛林里拍电影，整个人完全沉浸在角色里，根本不想理一个来自美国、带着英国口音的年轻女孩，想劝她当流行歌手。
She was in this jungle recording this movie and she was in that very actor state of mind where she didn't want this young girl from America with this English accent trying to convince her to be a pop star.
是啊。
Like Yeah.
她根本不是那种心态，她那时候完全不是...
She wasn't that it's all the frame So of mind she was
但说实话，我就是想劝她当流行歌手，我就跟她说：嘿。
anyway, I was trying to convince her to be a pop star, and I was like, hey.
你看。
Look.
我特别想签你。
I'd love to sign you.
我特别想带你
I'd love me to bring
去美国。
you to America.
啰啰嗦嗦一大堆。
Blah blah blah.
那次通话里，她几乎没说几句话。
She barely said anything on that call.
于是我挂了电话，马上给吉姆打了过去，他问我：进展怎么样？
So I put the phone down, I called Jim and he goes, how did it go?
我说：糟透了。
I go, terrible.
我就一直在说，说个不停，你知道的，我觉得她根本没怎么搭理我。
Like I just talked and talked and talked and I, you know, I think she had very little to say to me.
不过说真的，我也说不准。
And anyway, I don't know.
后来她的经纪人娜塔莎·鲍威尔给我打来电话，说：好了，priyanka同意了。
I get a call later from her manager at that time, Natasha Powell, and she was like, yeah, Priyanka's in.
我当时就
And I was
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