美国公开赛冠军阿丽娜·萨巴伦卡独家专访：将质疑、压力与失败转化为巨大成功

这是 iHeart 播客。

This is an iHeart podcast.

我是 Radhijavlukha，我是

I'm Radhijavlukha, and I'm the

《一场好哭》播客的主持人。我有机会与 Logan Urie 对话。如果你现在正尝试约会，在 Hinge 上被“幽灵”，或者想创建一个能让你真正匹配到想约会对象的交友档案，那么这期与 Hinge 恋爱科学总监 Logan Urie 的对话绝对适合你。

host of a really good cry podcast. And I have the opportunity to talk to Logan Urie. If you're out there trying to date right now, being ghosted on Hinge, or want to create a dating profile that gives you a solid chance of matching with someone you actually want to go on a date with, then this episode with Hinge's Director of Relationship Science, Logan Urie, is definitely for you.

恋爱确实需要经营。恋爱是两个人一起努力的关系。

Relationships do require work. Relationships are people who really work on them together.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或任何你收听播客的地方收听《一场好哭》。

Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你的整个身份被捏造。你深爱的兄弟毫无踪迹地失踪。你发现母亲病情的深度。我是 Danny Shapiro，这些只是我在即将到来的第十二季《家庭秘密》中将挖掘的几个震撼故事。我们继续被嘉宾和他们勇敢讲述的故事所感动和启发。

Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the powerful stories I'll be mining on our upcoming twelfth season of Family Secrets. We continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或任何你收听播客的地方收听《家庭秘密》第十二季。

Listen to Family Secrets season 12 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎来到《你对你》播客。我是 Lex Barrero，邀请你超越全球最具成功艺人的头衔与荣誉。每周，我们卸下披风，真实探讨嘉宾的内心斗争、童年故事以及塑造他们的时刻。获取灵感，成为最好的自己。在 iHeartRadio 应用或任何你收听播客的地方收听《你对你》播客。

Welcome to the You versus You podcast. I'm Lex Barrero, inviting you to go beyond the titles and the accolades of the world's most successful entertainers. Each week, we take off the cape and get real about the inner battles, childhood stories, and the moments that shaped our guests. Get inspired to become the best version of you. Listen to You versus You podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

今年萨巴伦卡经历了令人心碎的失利。面对所有情绪，她必须保持镇定，这是实至名归的胜利。阿丽娜·萨巴伦卡赢得大满贯冠军，捧起不同的美网奖杯。排名第一的健康与养生播客。

There have been heartbreaking losses for Savalenka this year. For all of the emotions she felt that she must compose, richly deserved win. Arena Savalenka hits for a grand slam title in a different US Open Trophy. The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shetty。Jay Shetty。

Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.

独一无二的杰·谢蒂。

The one, the only Jay Shetty.

阿丽娜·萨巴伦卡，恭喜你。我非常激动你能来到这里，我期待这一刻已经很久了。我周六去了现场，你简直令人难以置信。

Arena Savalenka, congratulations. I am so excited to have you here. I've been looking forward to this for such a long time. I got to be at the game on Saturday. You were absolutely incredible.

我简直不敢相信，在你赢得这座不可思议的奖杯仅仅48小时后，我们就把你请到了这里，美网女单决赛太不可思议了。祝贺你，也谢谢你来做客。

I can't believe we have you here forty eight hours after you just won this incredible trophy, the US Open Women's Final is unbelievable. Congrats and thank you for doing this.

谢谢你邀请我。我觉得我更激动。我一直在看你的播客，关注你，不知道多久了，所以我可能比你还激动。

Thank you for having me. I think I'm more excited than you. I've been watching your podcast and following you for, I don't know for how long, so I'm probably more excited than you.

这让我感觉真好。你看我的节目，这对我意义重大，但说真的，现场看你比赛真的很兴奋，那种态度、那种个性、那种惊人的体育精神，还有精彩的比赛，现场观看真的太棒了。

That feels really good to me. The fact that you watch it, it means the world to me, but honestly, been really excited and watching you live. There was nothing like it, the attitude, the personality, the amazing sportsmanship, like just incredible play. It was fantastic to watch truly.

是啊，那是一场精彩的比赛，我真的很高兴你喜欢看，也玩得很开心。

Yeah, it was a great match and I really, really happy that you enjoyed watching it and yeah, you had fun.

当你连续赢得大满贯时是什么感觉？这是你连续第二次赢得美网。和第一次感觉不同吗？感觉一样吗？你当时心里和脑海里都在想些什么？

How does it feel when you're winning grand slam after grand slam? This is the second time you've won the US Open in a row. Does it feel different from the first time? Does it feel the same? Like what goes through your mind and heart?

每次赢得大满贯，每次都感觉不可思议，每次都像是发生在你身上最大的事情。我觉得这完全取决于生活中的处境等等，因为这次经历了很多挣扎。所以这一次感觉就像第一次夺冠一样，就像是我的第一个大满贯。所以这是一个重要时刻，我觉得拿到这座奖杯后真的很不容易，绝对的。

Like every time you win the grand slam, every time is an incredible feeling and every time it's just, you feel like it's the biggest thing that happened to you. And I feel like it's all depends on the situation in life and stuff because this is a struggle a lot. So I feel like this time it feels like it happened for the first time, know, like it's like if my first grand slam. So it's it's a big moment and I feel like really tough after after getting this this beauty. Absolutely.

谢谢你把它带来，这太棒了。很高兴拥有它，这是《On Purpose》节目第一次有奖杯，这是一个特别的时刻，很高兴成为

Thank you for bringing it here. This is amazing. Love having This is the first trophy ever on On Purpose. This is a special moment. Happy to be the

第一个。

first one.

你今年在挣扎什么？当你说“我今年很挣扎”时，感觉像是种解脱。你具体在挣扎什么？你经历了什么？

Were you struggling with this year? Like when you say like, I was struggling this year, that's why it feels like a relief. What were you struggling with? Like what were you going through?

是啊，我赛季初打了两站大满贯决赛，在澳网和巴黎，我都输了。大家把我当热门，所以我觉得机会来了，特别兴奋，结果决赛输了，特别难过。那种惨痛的教训、惨痛的失利很难熬，所以这座奖杯意义重大。

Yeah, I mean, I played early in the season, I played two grand slam finals in Australia and in Paris, and I lost those two finals. And I, like they consider me favorite. So I kind of like, you know, I felt that I felt like, okay, it's coming my way. I was so excited, but then I would lose in the final. And I was sort of like really sad and like it was really tough to go through those tough lessons, tough losses and getting this trophy means a lot.

它说明我吸取了教训，变成了更好的球员，更能控制情绪。能捧起这座奖杯，我超级开心。

It means that I learned the lesson and became a better player. I have better control over my emotions and I'm super happy that I was able to win this trophy.

显然你刚赢了，我们会聊这个。我想知道，你输球时会做什么？因为输球难得多。

Obviously you've just won and we'll talk about that. I want to know what do you do when you lose? Because losing is so much harder.

很痛。

It hurts.

痛苦得多，痛到骨子里。你怎么办？你会复盘比赛吗？

It's so much more painful. It hurts so deeply. It hurts. What do you do? Do you analyze the game?

你会生气吗？输球、输掉决赛时，你都会经历哪些情绪？

Do you feel angry? Like what are the emotions that you go through when you've lost a game, lost a final?

决赛输球更痛，因为你离梦想那么近，却感觉它从指缝溜走。你会特别沮丧，我 personally 想立刻离开现场，好把它忘掉。但我得花时间坐下来复盘，才能真正吸取教训。消化失利需要时间。

A final, you know, I think it's all about like losing in the final, it hurts more because you know, you're getting so close to your dream and then it's like, it feels like it's sort of like slips away, if I can say like that. So you're really depressed and me personally, I want to leave the place as soon as possible just so I like forget it. But then I need like some time to sit back to analyze to like, you know, to actually learn the lesson. So it takes some time to process the losses.

你输球后多久才敢回看比赛？

How long before you can watch the game back when you've lost?

说实话，我输掉的决赛我从来没自己看过。我让团队去看，然后端给我：“你这里、这里、这里做错了。” 我知道自己在心理、情绪上哪里出错，也知道面对决赛时的心态哪里不对，这部分我清楚，但技术细节我交给团队去总结。

I have to be honest, I never watched my like finals that I lost. I let my team do that and bring me on the plate. Okay, you like, you did this, this and this wrong. I know like mentally, emotionally what I did wrong and where I made the mistake in like the way I approached the final or what was my mindset. I know this part, but like the tennis part, I let my team figure it.

然后他们拿来录像，他们告诉我我记得，因为我不想看。我不想看到自己在那里输掉。当然，就像我本赛季早些时候输掉的决赛，我当时表现得不太好。我讨厌看到自己不是最友善的样子。所以我从不看自己的

Then they bring it, they tell me I remember because I don't want to watch it. I don't want to see myself there losing. And of course, like the finals that I lost earlier this season, I was like not behaving my best. And I hate seeing myself being not the kindest person. So I never watch my

是啊，这真的很有意思。我也想象，当你回看自己时，有时反而会让你重复那种行为，就像你越是盯着看，就越像在反复揭开伤口，就像你一直按在那个地方，如果你能理解我的意思。

Yeah, that's really interesting. I also imagine when you're watching yourself back, it can kind of make you repeat that behavior sometimes as well. Like it's like if you watch something closely enough, you almost like you keep pushing the wound. It's like you keep pressing on that side, if that makes sense.

没错。你只想从中学习，确保这种事再也不会发生，然后像噩梦一样忘掉它。因为我觉得回看录像只会重新触发那种痛苦，那种你拼命想忘记的东西。所以我觉得对我的心理健康来说，不看更好。

Exactly. You just want to learn it, you know, like make sure that it's never going to happen again and forget it like a nightmare because yeah, I feel like watching it back, it just triggered that, you know, that pain and something that you wanted to forget badly. So I feel like for me, for my mental health, it's better not to watch it.

嗯。你赢或输之后，第一个想说话、想拥抱、想打电话的人是谁？

Yeah. Who's the first person after you win or lose that you wanna talk to, that you wanna hug, that you wanna call, like who's the first

我立刻跑向我的团队。我跑向他们，因为我知道他们为这场胜利付出了多少。所以我先拥抱我男朋友，当然，然后是我的团队。因为我知道他们做了多少工作，才让我能在如此高的水平比赛。然后我给家人发消息。

I run to my team straight away. I run to my team because I know the the work they they they put it in for this win. So I run there and I I hug my boyfriend first, of course, then my team. And because I know how much of a work they've done to make sure that I'm able to compete on such high level. And then I messaged my family.

真好。我们刚才线下也聊到这个。你说今天早上上了《今日秀》，感觉你今天有一堆采访要做。距离你夺冠才48小时。但人们忘了这些赛事时间非常紧凑。

Nice. Yeah, let me talk to me about, we were just talking about this offline. You were just saying, you know, this morning you were on the Today Show, you're like, I'm sure you have a million interviews to do today. It's been forty eight hours since you've won. But like people forget that these tournaments are played in like these really tight timeframes.

像这次是两星期，对吧，美网。

Like this was two weeks, right? US Open.

对，两星期。

Yeah, two weeks.

会变得非常紧张。你要打很多场比赛，多盘大战，挑战巨大，所有压力都压缩在这短短两周里。说说作为团队、作为个人，如何为这两周的高强度做准备。

It gets really intense. You're playing all these games, multiple sets, really challenging, like the pressures all compressed into this short timeline. Like talk to us about the preparation as a team, as an individual for the intensity of the two weeks that the games are being played in.

嗯，我们之前还有热身赛。然后大满贯前有一周，你来到比赛地，既要训练，又有很多品牌晚宴、会议、采访。大家不知道大满贯前那一周其实超级忙，全是会议、晚宴这些，也很难应付。同时你还要训练，然后正赛开始，又有新的压力。但准备不仅是身体上的——网球、健身房、体能这些——心理上也要为艰难的两周做足准备。

Well, I mean, we also have tournaments that leads to the grand slam. And then you have like a week before the grand slam where you come to the place where you're going to compete and you practice training but also you have a lot of brands dinners, like meetings, some interviews as well. So people doesn't know that before the grand slam there is like a week, really busy week, of meetings, dinners, this kind of stuff, which is also not easy to handle. And also your training during that period, and then the tournament starts, and there is another pressure which we deal with. But the preparation is all about, you know, of course physically there is tennis, there is gym, there is fitness, all of this stuff, but also mentally you are preparing yourself for really tough two weeks.

两周精彩的网球，但愿如此，因为你永远不知道会发生什么。但也是两周的拼搏，为了梦想而战。精神上，你脑子里一直在对话：你做得到，你有这个能力。

Two weeks of great tennis, hopefully, because you never know. But also two weeks of fighting, like fighting for your dream. And mentally you have this constant conversation in your head. You're going to do that. You're capable of it.

你足够强大。所以我觉得要是有人听到我这三个星期里脑子里的对话，他们可能会想：这人是不是有什么问题，因为对话一刻不停。

You're strong enough. So you really I I feel like if someone would hear like my conversation in my head throughout like this three weeks period, they would think that, okay, is something like something wrong with this person because it's constant conversation.

跟我们聊聊这种自我对话吧，我觉得大家忘了这一点。现在我们都在沉迷网上的声音，看推特、看X、看媒体说什么，却忘了真正的对话发生在冠军自己的脑子里。给我们讲讲那是什么样的：有哪些起伏？内心独白怎么转变？

Talk to us about that self talk because I think we forget that right now we're all so obsessed with the conversation online. We're looking at what Twitter saying, X is saying, we're looking at what media and then you forget that the real conversation is happening inside the champion's head. Walk us through what that conversation looks like. Like what are the ups and downs? What are the shifts in that inner dialogue?

嗯，我觉得在大赛前紧张是完全正常的。每个运动员都会紧张，每个运动员都会怀疑自己：我不知道，我还能再次做到吗？或者比赛会怎么发展？因为你永远不知道，体育就是这么美妙：你走上场，却不知道自己会是什么感觉。

Well, I mean, I think it's absolutely normal to feel nervous before big tournaments. I think that every athlete feel nervous, every athlete dub adapting his I don't know, ability. Will he be able to do that again? Or like how it's going to go? Because you never know, like, sport is such a beautiful thing that you go out there and you don't know how you're going to feel.

比赛状态会好吗？你会感觉棒极了还是更好？或者你得去应对？因为外人看比赛并不知道，比如我自己感觉不对劲，我在场上做某个动作不舒服，我得去处理这种情况。

Will game works? Will you feel great or better? Or you have to deal with? Because, you know, people look from the outside and doesn't know, for example, I don't feel myself. I don't Like, I feel uncomfortable doing something on court and I have to, like, deal with that.

所以赛前我就告诉自己：我准备好应对一切。我告诉自己这很正常。我试着让这些念头在脑子里安定下来，而不是把它们赶走，因为我觉得当你越想赶走它们，它们反而越膨胀，更难处理。所以我只告诉自己：有这种感觉没关系，这么想也没关系。

So before the tournament, I prepare myself that I am ready to handle anything. Like, I'm just talking that it's normal. I'm just trying to kind of like settle those those like thoughts in my head, not by trying to like make them go away because I feel like the moment when you try to make things go away, they actually like growing more and it's it's like more and it's not easy to handle. So I'm just trying to tell myself it's okay to feel that. It's okay to think that.

完全没关系，人人都会这么想。关键是你走上场，无论发生什么都要去拼，两周里脑子里一直有这种对话，这很难，是的。

It's absolutely okay. Everyone thinks that. It's all about you going out there and fighting no matter what and like constantly having this conversation in your head throughout two weeks. It's tough. Yeah.

很难，但我有点爱上这种感觉。

It's tough, but I kind of like love it.

是啊，是啊，你已经学会享受它了。

Yeah. Yeah, you've learned to enjoy it.

不，我只是非常感激有机会体验这一切。不是每个人都有这样的机会。所以我特别感恩，而巨大的机会也意味着巨大的责任和压力，但不是人人都有这个机会，所以你得心怀感激。

No, I'm just so grateful to have opportunity to experience of that, of all of that. Not everyone have this opportunity in life. So I'm just so grateful and a big opportunities is also like big responsibility, big pressure, but not everyone have that opportunity. So you gotta be grateful for that.

是啊，这太美了。你让我想起了那句名言：你抗拒的，会持续存在。没错。当你试图摆脱一个念头或一种情绪时，它反而膨胀了。

Yeah, that's beautiful. You reminded me of that famous quote that says, What you resist persists. Yeah. The idea that if you're trying to get rid of a thought or trying to get rid of a feeling, it just expands.

正是如此。

Exactly.

它占据更多空间，一旦你接纳它，就会发现当你抗拒时，它只会变得更庞大、更难对付，但

And it takes up more space and as soon as you accept it, you'll find when you reject it, it just gets bigger, it gets harder but

我们——对，抗拒的抗拒，并不是钥匙。

we Yeah, reject rejection that's not the key.

绝对如此，你接纳它，当然会紧张是很自然的。当然，每个人都不舒服，每个人都在——没错。感到压力 突然间你就平静了。是啊。而当你觉得，哦，只有我这样。

Absolutely, you accept that, of course it's natural to feel nervous. Of course, everyone's feeling uncomfortable, everyone's Exactly. Feeling stressed All of a sudden it kind of calms you. Yeah. Whereas when you think that, oh, I'm the only one.

是啊。别人看起来都那么镇定自信，而我却紧张得要命，这就是我们都会有的感觉。

Yeah. Everyone else looks so calm and confident, but I'm stressed out. That's why we all get.

我想那是我刚开始打网球时最大的错误。我以为只有我有这种感觉。我过于聚焦在自己身上，于是忽略了对手，职业生涯初期我挣扎得很厉害。但当我意识到人人都会这样，并且开始在对手身上看到这一点时

I think that was my my main mistake when I was just like starting playing tennis. I thought that I'm the only one who feel that. And I would like focus too much on that. So I would forget about like my opponent and I would struggle a lot at the beginning of my career. But then the moment when I realized that everyone experienced that and I started seeing that in my opponent.

我就想，好吧，那这很正常。那我们都处在同样的情境，都在应对同样的问题，关键就看谁处理得更好。所以我觉得这其实像个小把戏，心理把戏，就是接纳它。

And I was like, okay, then it's normal. Then we're both in the same situation. We're both dealing with the same things and it's all about who's going to do that better. So it's actually like a trick I feel like, mind trick, just accept it.

嗯，对你来说，成为冠军、成为世界第一，最难的是什么？

Yeah, what's the hardest thing about being a champion, about being number one for you?

我不知道。我不知道。这很难。我的意思是，我觉得当一个人被称为冠军时，就像，我怎么能抱怨任何事呢？如果你赢了奖杯，那就没什么可抱怨的。

I don't know. I don't know. It's hard. I mean, I think there is nothing like when you call someone like champion, when you hear the champion is like, how can I actually complain about anything? Like if you like if you won like a trophy, like there is nothing to complain about.

是啊，是啊。你赢了之后拿着香槟出来那一刻我太爱了。我当时想，那个赞助商肯定乐坏了，伊莲娜。我觉得那是史上最棒的反应。

Yeah. Yeah. I loved when you came out after you've won and you had the champagne bottle. You had the I was like, I was like that sponsor must be really happy Irina. I was like, that was like the best reaction ever.

我应该拿龙舌兰出来的，因为他们是龙舌兰赞助的。哦，对，不是香槟，但你知道，得庆祝，得享受，因为辛苦都过去了，现在是庆祝的时候。

I should have came with the tequila because they sponsored by tequila. Oh yeah. No with champagne, but you know, you gotta celebrate it, you gotta enjoy it because you know, the hard work is done, now it's time to, you know, celebrate it.

嗯，嗯，我想到那一刻。不知道你记不记得那次比赛，C罗把可口可乐藏起来，然后把水摆上去。你看过那个采访吗？没有。那是几年前的新闻发布会，是足球明星克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多。

Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about the moment. I don't know if you remember that tournament where Ronaldo hid the Coca Cola and he put the water up. Did you ever see that interview? No. So this is a press conference a few years ago and it was Cristiano Ronaldo football Okay.

他们在他面前放了可口可乐，他把它推开，说喝水吧，别喝可乐。

And they'd put Coca Cola in front of him and he put it away and he said, drink water, don't drink Coca Cola.

这没问题。

That's fine.

那天可口可乐股价就跌了，简直疯狂。所以我想，你拿着酩悦香槟，它的股价肯定飙升了。可能吧。

And Coca Cola stock price went down that day. Like it was crazy. So I was like, you just took Moet champagne's like stock price must have like gone up and Probably. The roost.

我们得

We need

查一下。对，还有滑雪镜，我觉得太棒了。

to check it out. Yeah. The ski goggles too. I was like, it was amazing.

太搞笑了，我不知道会看起来那么滑稽。其实挺酷的，我直接从更衣室出来，

It was so funny. I didn't know that I'm gonna look that funny. It looked great. I just came straight from the locker room where

他们刚喷完，就像，我……

they sprayed, like, I don't

知道我在自己身上花了多少香槟。那是一个有趣的时刻。

know how much of bottle of champagne on me. It was a fun moment.

是的，我觉得庆祝，你知道吗？听到你说“我想庆祝，我想找点乐子”我真的很开心，因为我们有时会忘记，而且你需要看到世界第一的人说“我需要庆祝”，我觉得这适用于每个人，无论你在人生的哪个阶段，我们都不庆祝任何里程碑。

Yeah, I think celebrate, do you know what? I was so happy to hear you say, I wanna celebrate, I wanna have fun because I think we forget and sometimes you need to see the number one person in the world say, I need to celebrate because I think this applies to everyone, wherever you are at your stage in life, we don't celebrate any milestones.

是的。

Yes.

当你看到顶尖的人都不庆祝时，你会想，哦，那我有什么资格庆祝？所以我觉得你给了大家许可，说，你知道吗，没关系。你必须，没错，

And then when you don't see the people at the top celebrate, you kind of think, oh, well, what permission do I have to celebrate? So I feel like you gave everyone permission to say, you know what, it's okay. You have to, exactly,

你必须庆祝。绝对如此。特别是当你，就我而言，比如输掉决赛，经历一些艰难的比赛，面对一些挣扎，当你终于能赢得对自己来说重要的东西时。我觉得庆祝那一刻很重要，因为你永远不知道这一刻什么时候会再来。所以你必须庆祝。

you have to celebrate. Absolutely. Especially when you, in my case, like losing the finals, losing some tough matches, dealing with some struggles, you know, when you finally able to win something big for you. I think it's important to celebrate that moment because you never know when this moment is going to happen again. So you have to celebrate.

无论你在哪个行业、人生的哪个阶段，无论你取得了什么成就，你都应该为自己留一点时刻。

It doesn't matter in which industry in life you are, whatever achievement you achieve, like you have to go and just have a little moment for yourself.

嗯，你自己也会留一点时间独自庆祝吗？那是什么样子？那种个人的庆祝是什么样的？

Yeah, do you take a moment to yourself as well to celebrate on your own? Like what does that look like? What does that personal celebration look like?

我通常会和我的团队、身边的人一起庆祝，因为，你知道，这不是我一个人的功劳，是在大家的帮助下完成的。所以我觉得这不只是我的奖杯，是我们的奖杯。但我的庆祝方式是在脑海里再次告诉自己，好吧，我为自己感到骄傲。

I usually celebrate with my team, with the people around me because, you know, it's not like it was done only by me, know. I've done it with the help of people. So I feel like it's not only mine trophy, it's our trophy. But my celebration is like one again in my head. I just tell myself, okay, I'm proud.

我为自己能拥有这座奖杯感到骄傲。

I'm proud to be able to handle, have this trophy.

嗯，我觉得拥有那种内在的庆祝也很重要。是的。因为我喜欢你刚才说的，我坐下来，心想，我为自己拥有这座奖杯感到骄傲。我觉得我们一直在寻找外界的认可，而当你赢得这样的东西时，当然，整个热爱网球、热爱你的人都会认可你，那是一种美好的感觉。

Yeah, I think it's important to have that inner celebration as well. Yeah. Because I love that you just said that I sit down and go, I'm proud to have this trophy. Like I feel like we're constantly looking for validation outside and when you win something like this, of course the whole world that loves tennis and loves you is validating you, which is a beautiful feeling.

当然。

Of

当然。但我喜欢你说的那句话，你说你坐在那里，对自己说，我为自己赢得这个奖杯感到骄傲，因为我觉得这种内在的认可是任何人都无法从你身上夺走的，也是在你之后长久陪伴你的东西。

course. But I love that you said that you actually sit there and say, I'm proud of this trophy for myself because I feel like that inner validation is something no one can take away from you and something that stays with you long after.

是的，因为只有我自己知道我经历了什么，有多艰难，以及这一切是如何开始的，你知道，这很重要，要懂得欣赏。

Yeah, because like only I know like what I had to go through, how tough it was and how it all started and you know, like this is important to, you know, appreciate it.

是的，这很美好。我想回到过去，伊琳娜，因为我觉得我在准备这次采访时看了很多你的采访。我知道我们在Instagram上联系了一段时间，我在想，我实际上觉得很多人并不真正了解你的旅程，也不深入了解你的故事。我觉得人们只是零零碎碎地知道一些，但这是我们故意为之的。我们喜欢了解人们是如何成为他们现在的样子的。

Yeah, it's beautiful. I want to go back Irina because I feel like I was watching a lot of your interviews when I was preparing for this. And I know we've been messaging for a while on Instagram I was thinking about it, I was like, I actually don't think a lot of people know your journey and know your story that deeply. I think people know a little bit here and there, but on purpose, that's what we like to do. We love to know how people found became their who they were.

所以我想问你，你童年有什么记忆，或者你能回忆起什么记忆，让你觉得它定义了今天的你，影响了你今天成为什么样的人？

And so I wanted to ask you like, what is a childhood memory that you have, or a memory that you can recall that you feel defines who you are today that has impacted the person that you are today?

你知道，我有很多美好的回忆，但我记得看到我爸爸是一个非常有趣的人，是那种会让每个人都感到快乐和微笑的人。我记得我会看着他，想，哦，天哪，我想成为这样的人，成为一个积极的人，像一个无论走到哪里都带来积极氛围的人。所以我想这就是为什么我现在性格比较有趣。

You know, I have so many great memories, but I remember watching my dad being really like funny guy, the guy who would just, you know, make everyone feel happy and smile. And I would I remember I would just look at him and think, oh my God, I want to become this kind of person being like, just like a positive person, like the person who brings like positive vibes everywhere she goes. So I think that's why I'm like quite, I have this quite funny personality.

那种爱玩的天性就是来自那里吗？是的，看着你爸爸？

Is that where that playfulness comes from? Yeah. Watching your dad?

是的，是的。还有一个故事，这个故事不是我记得的，但我觉得它完美地展现了我的个性。当我还是个孩子的时候，有人来找我，因为我击球时会发出咕噜声，有人叫我莎拉波娃。我看着那个人说，不，我是未来的萨巴伦卡。我当时还是个孩子。

Yeah, yeah. And another story, this story, it's not like I remember that, but I think it's perfectly shows my personality. When I was a kid and someone came to me because I was grunting while hitting the ball and someone came to me calling me Sharapova. And I looked at the person saying like, no, I'm future Sabalenka. I was a kid.

我当时大概九岁或十岁，说那句话的时候，当我妈妈告诉我这个故事时，我有点为自己感到骄傲。我

I was like what nine or 10 and saying that I was just like, when my mom told me the story, I kind of like was proud of myself. I

我喜欢这样。对我来说，你的一切表情，即使我在周六观看比赛时，你脸上那些微小的表情可以呈现出这么多不同的角度和表情。我就像只是在看着你。我早些时候也告诉过你一个时刻，阿曼达那天打出了一个惊人的球。你只是转过身，在旁边鼓掌，我

love it. And to me, it's all your even when I was watching on Saturday, To me, it's all your micro expressions that you just have this face that can just like make so many different angles and faces. And I'm like, just watching you just I was telling you about a moment earlier as well. Amanda played an amazing shot the other day. And you just like turned around and you're like clapping it on the side and I

就像是，那是一记漂亮的击球。

was like, it was a great shot.

那是一场精彩的比赛。太棒了。就是这些微小的细节，但你说都是你爸爸启发了这一切，就像那样。

It was a great show. It was amazing. It's just it's all these micro things but you're saying your dad inspired all of this like that.

是的，我觉得我的性格百分之百来自我爸爸。

Yeah, my personality I think 100% comes from my dad.

嗯。也是他把你带进网球世界的吗？

Yeah. And he was also the one who introduced you to tennis as

对，是的。

I Yeah.

跟我说说。他是怎么发现网球的？他怎么介绍给你的？

Walk me through that. How did he discover tennis? How did he introduce it to you?

其实不算偶然，他只是给我找点活动，因为我小时候特别好动，他想让我忙起来，找点事做。他在找一项运动，路过网球场时就想，要不试试？哇。于是我就试了，结果我爱上了，就是这样开始的。

It's actually by not like accident, but he was just like trying to find some activity for me because I was very active kid and he wanted me to be busy and to do stuff. And he was trying to find a sport for me and he was just like passing by the tennis court. He was like, well, why not just try it? Wow. So I tried it and I loved it and that's how it started.

太疯狂了。他网球打得好吗？不，不，不。

That's crazy. Was he good at tennis? No, no, no.

他以前打冰球，但后来出了自行车事故，所以他对重返运动有点害怕。

He used to play ice hockey, but then he had bike crash. So he was afraid to come back in sport.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

所以是的。

So yeah.

那是一次相当严重的伤病

It was a quite a bad injury that

你这是一次非常严重的伤病。他在18或19岁时差点没挺过来。

you It was a very bad injury. He barely survived when he was 18 or 19.

哦，天哪。

Oh, gosh.

所以，从那以后他就不想再回到体育运动中，因为他担心这会影响他的健康。

So, and since then he didn't want to come back to sport because he was afraid that it will affect his health.

他有没有做过什么让你对网球有信心的事情，或者你们的关系是怎样的？因为我在另一个采访中听到你说，你说这很有趣，你实际上直到16、17岁才觉得自己真正擅长网球。是的。所以如果你很早就开始打网球，直到16、17岁才真正感觉很好，那这段时间里发生了什么？不，但我当时已经相当不错了。

Did he do anything to help you feel confident about tennis or what was that relationship like? Because I heard in another interview, you said it was quite funny that you didn't actually think you got good at tennis until you were like 16, 17 years old. Yeah. And so that's a long time if you started playing tennis quite early and you only felt really good at 16, 17, what was happening between that age when you started playing? No, but I was pretty good.

我当时

I was

一直在赢这些本地比赛。我当时已经相当不错了。我爸爸总是说，只要你上场去拼搏，尽了最大努力，你就很棒了。他并不在乎我赢还是输。所以他真的是一个很棒的 supporter。

winning these local tournaments all the time. I was pretty good. And my dad would always just say, as long as you just go out there and you fight and you give your best, you're good. He didn't care like if I win or lose. So he was a really great supporter.

但我在十六七岁时意识到，也许我可以在国际上打得不错，去参加那些当时像是1万美元奖金的赛事，比如女子网球WTA。实际上是从ITF开始的，我想，因为我从1万、2.5万、5万、10万这样一步步打上去的。所以是的，那时候我想也许我会打得不错，当你把自己和其他运动员比较时。这就是为什么我可能是。

But I realized at sixteen seventeen that I can be maybe good internationally, going for those back then it was like 10,000 event, like a women's sport, WTA. It started like, actually, I think it was like ITF or something like, because I started from like 10,000, twenty five, fifty, one hundred. So like slowly my way to WTA tennis. So yeah, back then I thought like maybe I be good when you compare yourself to like other athletes. That's why I probably am.

你从小看谁的球？你崇拜哪些人？因为你已经说了，你会说，不，我将成为未来的萨巴伦卡。

Who did you grow up watching? Who are the people that you admired? Because you already said, you're like, no, I'm gonna be future Savalenko.

你知道吗，这真的很好笑，因为回想起来，那时候我并不是特别沉迷社交媒体。我没有iPhone，也没法上Instagram去看其他运动员。我整天就是训练、上学，然后和朋友们在外面玩。我很少看电视或者上网，所以其实我没有特别崇拜谁。当然，我偶尔看到小威廉姆斯在赛场上称霸。

Know, it's so funny because I think back then I wasn't that much of a social media. So I didn't have like an iPhone, you know, to go to Instagram and watch other athletes. And I was just like, I was training the whole, I was going to school, I was training and then I was just like having fun with my friends outside. So I was never like watching TV or any internet much. So I didn't really look up to someone, you know, like, of course, I've seen Serena dominating like there and there.

所以我当时就想，希望有一天我也能成为她那样的人。但我真的没有特别崇拜谁，这个问题让我觉得自己好像有点奇怪，好像每个人都有偶像，但我没有。但我想答案就是，那时候我们没有社交媒体，没有那种随手一刷就能看到别人生活的工具。

So I was like thinking like, I wish I could become like her one day, you know. So but no, I wasn't like really looking up to someone and like this question makes me feel really terrible as a person. Like I feel like everyone have their like idol, someone they look up to and I never have someone. But I think the answer is just like because we didn't have that social media. We didn't have like something that you just grab and you look and okay and you see this life.

不，我不是故意让你难受才问这个问题的。

No, I mean, didn't want to make you feel bad by asking it. Was

没有啦，不是让我难受，只是……

just No, like didn't make me bad. No, was just like

我反而觉得这其实挺美好的。因为有时候看别人的确能激励我们，但有时候没有这些反而能让你更找到自己。我比你大十岁，我小时候也没有社交媒体，所以我只能通过读书了解别人。我16、17岁的时候读了贝克汉姆的自传，后来读了乔布斯的传记。我通过阅读去了解我敬佩的人，而不是刷他们的视频。

and I almost think there's something beautiful about it because I think sometimes watching people can inspire us, but sometimes not having that can actually help you find yourself. Like not having access, even, I mean, when I was growing up, I'm ten years older than you, but when I was growing up, I was reading books about people because I couldn't follow them on social media either. So I read David Beckham's autobiography when I was like 16, 17 years old. And then I read Steve Jobs's biography much later. And so I was reading about people that I was fascinated by at a young age, but I didn't get to watch clips of them whatever else it may be.

我觉得这很美好，因为你可以自己去定义你是谁。有时候你会忍不住拿自己和别人比较，我觉得社交媒体让年轻运动员或者年轻人太难了。你会想，我要是也能那样就好了。

And I think there's something beautiful about that because then you get to define who you are. And sometimes you can get caught comparing yourself to people. I think social media has made it so hard for young athletes or young anyone. Yeah, yeah. You're looking at everyone going, I wish I was more like that.

我要是也能长那样就好了，我要是也能打出那种球就好了。所以有时候没有这些反而是一种自由。

I wish I looked like that. I wish I had that game, you know, so it's kind of nice to not have that actually sometimes because you're free

这确实是把双刃剑，对吧？你能看到更多、学到更多，但同时也会忍不住和别人比较，然后就开始自我怀疑。这会带来很强的不安全感。所以我觉得，找到你真正热爱的东西很重要。

of it. It's a good and a bad thing at the same time, right? Like you see more stuff, you learn more, but at the same time you can compare yourself to people then feel bad about yourself for some reason. So it can bring really strong insecureness in you. So I don't know, I think it's important to find something that you love, you truly love.

不是因为你刷到某个社交媒体帖子就觉得，哇，我也想活成那样。但你真的想吗？你得找到你真正热爱的东西。如果你热爱你做的事，全身心投入，尽你所能去成功，我觉得这才是正道。

Not like because you see social media posts and you think, oh, I want to live that life. But do you really, you know, you have to find something that you love. And I think if you do what you love and you passion and you dedicate your life to that and you do everything you can to become successful in any area. I think that's the way to go, you know.

说得好，真的。我觉得拿奖杯的那一瞬间只占你人生的1%，剩下的99%是我们看不到的。我们看到的只是比赛那两周，或者别的什么高光时刻。

Well said, yeah, absolutely. I feel like it's so because winning the trophy is 1% of your life. The other 99% is what we don't see. We're just seeing the two weeks of the tournaments or whatever it may be.

但这是整个人生。

But it's the whole life.

就是醒来，就是，给我讲讲你的晨间流程。你的流程是什么样的？你如何为自己做准备？比赛期间？你是指比赛日和非比赛日吗？

It's the waking up, it's the, walk me through your morning routine. Like what does your routine look like? How do you set yourself up? During the tournament? Do mean a game day and a non game day?

嗯，比赛日又要看比赛时间，但我喜欢睡懒觉。我需要好好恢复。不过如果是晚上的比赛，我会放轻松。我会在健身房做些灵活性训练，让我清醒一下。

Well, game day depends on the match once again, but I like to sleep in. I need to have a good recovery. But then I take it easy if it's like an evening match. Take it easy. I do like some mobility in the gym, like to wake me up.

我是说，当然，午饭前，然后我会进去，再做热身，打打网球。然后比赛就开始了。如果不是比赛日，那就会睡得更久，起得更晚，轻松开始，稍微热热身，然后就是治疗恢复流程，接着是晚餐。我喜欢出去吃晚餐。挺好的。

I mean, course, before lunch, then I go inside, I do my warm up again, I do tennis hit. And then there's a match game. And when it's not much day, then it's like even longer sleep, later wake up and easy start, a little bit of a heat and then it's a treatment recovery process and then it's dinner. I love to go out for dinners. Nice.

我是不是在哪看到你也冥想，或者以前试过？你有没有练习过冥想，或者和运动心理学家合作过？

Did I read somewhere that you meditate as well or have tried before? Do you practice any sort of meditation or work with a sports psychologist as well?

我和运动心理学家合作了四五年。我们做过某种冥想。是的，我们在我职业生涯初期做了很多尝试。但后来，我发现我太依赖她了。她是位女性。

I worked with the sports psychologist for four or five years. We did some sort of meditation. Did, yeah, we did a lot of things at the beginning of my career. But then, you know, what I found that I was relying on her so much. She was a woman.

我太依赖她了。所以我指望她来解决我的问题，比如我的情绪。我一遍又一遍地犯同样的错误，我对此感到很沮丧。所以某一刻我决定，好吧，我得为自己的行为负责。

Was relying on her so much. So I was expecting her to fix my problems, like my emotions. And I was like repeating the same mistake over and over again. And I was like getting upset about that. So at some point I decided, okay, I have to take responsibility over my actions.

于是我不再和运动心理学家合作，那一刻我开始了解自己，真正更了解自己。我开始更好地控制情绪，当我承担起责任时，我感觉更平衡了。是的。所以，我觉得对我个人来说，这是很棒的一步，但谁知道呢，也许有一天我会回到心理学、冥想那些东西上。

And I stopped working with psychologists and that was the moment when I started like learning about myself when I actually understood myself better. And I start to control my emotions much better and I felt like more balanced when I like took that responsibility. Yeah. So it was, I think for me personally was a great move, but you never know, like maybe one day I'm going to come back to get back to psychology, meditation and all of that stuff.

我觉得这是正确的流程，对任何事来说，我觉得都是学习。

I think that's the right process though with anything, I feel like it's learn.

学习，是的。

Learn, yeah.

然后你得去领导自己，这就是先学习再领导自己。我认为挑战在于，如果你一直当学生，你就永远依赖别人。我觉得我们一旦对什么产生依赖，它就开始控制我们，于是我们就得看那天心情好不好。但当你学了东西，然后去尝试、练习、应用，你就能看到自己是否真的内化了。所以我认为这是个好过程。

And then you have to go lead yourself and it's learn and then lead yourself. And I think the challenge is if you constantly remain a student, then you're always dependent. And I think anything we become dependent on controls And then we're subject to how good we feel that day. But when you learn something and then you go and try it and you practice it and you apply it, then you get to see whether you actually internalized it. And so I think that is a good process.

我觉得对任何从事教练、治疗、心理学的人来说，能先学习再把这些东西拿到现实世界里测试，然后看效果如何，而不是永远停留在理论里，这样更好。否则就像一直有人牵着你手，而且你越抓越紧。

I feel like for anyone who's practicing any sort of coaching, therapy, psychology, it's great to be able to learn and then go test all the stuff in the real world and then see where it goes back rather than keep it there forever because then you almost, someone's holding your hand the whole time and then you keep holding tighter and tighter and tighter.

是啊，就像来回切换一样，和心理学家合作，然后自己出去尝试解决，等你觉得需要找人聊聊、需要找答案的时候再回去。所以，这永远是个学习过程，对吧？只要对你有好处，那就很棒。

Yeah, it's good to like, you know, go back and forth, like work with psychologist but then go out there and try to figure it by yourself. And then the moment you feel like you need to talk to someone and you need to find some answers. So yeah, it's always a learning process, right? As long as it's good for you, it's great.

我是Radee Devlukha，我是

I'm Radee Devlukha, and I'm

《A Really Good Cry》播客的主持人。我有机会和Logan Urie对话。Logan是约会专家、行为科学家、畅销书作家，一个真正在改变我们对爱情和约会看法的人。在我们的对话中，我们聊遍了Logan研究并测试过的所有约会话题：从约会资料该写什么，到该用和不该用哪些照片，再到真正有效的开场白，以及那些大家可能没意识到却在降低配对成功率的巨大雷区。

the host of A Really Good Cry podcast. And I have the opportunity to talk to Logan Urie. Logan is a dating expert, a behavioral scientist, a best selling author, and someone who is seriously changing the way we think about love and dating. In our conversation, we talk all things dating that Logan has studied and tested from what to put in your dating profile, the pictures you should and shouldn't be using to the conversation starters that actually work. And the huge no nos that people probably do not realize are reducing their chances of success on apps.

无论你是单身、正在约会，还是只想在爱情里更主动，Logan都能提供我们都需要的那种清晰视角。

Whether you're single, dating, or just trying to be more intentional in love, Logan offers the kind of clarity we all need.

关系确实需要经营。最好的关系是那些一起努力经营的人。他们太专注于“如果我找到完美的人，就会有完美的关系”，却没真正理解：他们可以先选个很棒的人，然后一起把关系建立起来，不必一直寻找完美。

Relationships do require work. And the best relationships are people who really work on them together. They're so focused on if I find the perfect person, then I'll have the perfect relationship. Instead of understanding really that they can choose someone great and then build that relationship together. They don't need to keep searching for perfection.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你收听播客的地方，收听《A Really Good Cry》。

Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

当我们直面死亡时会发生什么？

What happens when we come face to face with death?

我的卡车被一枚20磅重的反坦克地雷炸飞了。

My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti tank mine.

我的降落伞没有打开。

My parachute did not deploy.

我被贩毒集团绑架了。

I was kidnapped by a drug cartel.

我只记得一切都变黑了。我正在死去。

I just remember everything getting dark. I'm dying.

当我们走出已知世界的边缘

When we step beyond the edge of what we know

打开我们的意识，去接纳超越西方框架之外的东西。

To open our consciousness to something more than just what's in that western box.

然后我回来了。我在临床上死亡了。心脏停止了跳动。

And return. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating.

我死了11.5分钟。

Which I was dead for eleven point five minutes.

我叫丹·布什。我的使命很简单：寻找、探索并分享这些故事。

My name is Dan Bush. My mission is simple. To find, explore, and share these stories.

我不是受害者。我是幸存者。

I'm not a victim. I'm a survivor.

当你最脆弱的时候，你才是最强大的。

You're strongest when you're the most vulnerable.

提醒我们活着的意义。不只是那个砍断自己手臂的人，而是那个在砍断手臂时还在微笑的人。《Alive Again》是一档关于生命脆弱、人类精神力量以及真正活着意义的播客。请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple Podcasts 或任何你收听喜爱节目的地方收听《Alive Again》。

To remind us what it means to be alive. Not just that I was the guy that cut his arm off, but I'm the guy who was smiling when he cut his arm off. Alive Again, a podcast about the fragility of life, the strength of the human spirit, and what it means to truly live. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

本周《Dear Chelsea》节目，我 Chelsea Handler 邀请到了 Maren Morris。你走出了婚姻，你走出了所谓的乡村音乐，

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Maren Morris is here. You came out of a marriage. You came out of, quote, unquote, country music, and

据我观察，你经历了一次巨大的成长。

you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell.

我意识到自己在以非常快的速度扩展和成长。是的，你可以说是成为母亲和产后经历，了解自己。我经历了很多身份危机，但我意识到我不能回头看，也不能为了别人放慢脚步。我想设定自己的节奏，我愿意牺牲自己的舒适，以我一直努力保持的节奏前进。基本上，生活中所有可能改变的事情在五年内都发生在我身上，你知道，这是一个缓慢的过程。

I realized I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace. And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself. There were a lot of identity crises going on, but I realized I can't look back and slow down for people. I want to set my own pace, and I will sacrifice my comfort to move at the pace that I have worked really hard to move at. Literally everything that could change in your life happened in five years for me, and, you know, it was a slow burn.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple Podcasts 或任何你收听播客的地方收听《Dear Chelsea》。

Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

那些真正了解你、超越网球身份的人，他们会怎么形容你？他们会说你什么？

How would the people that know you beyond tennis personally, deeply, intimately, how would they describe you? What would they say about you?

哦，我不喜欢谈论自己，但我觉得他们会说我非常善良，当然也很有趣，而且非常慷慨。我想，嗯，是的，我觉得他们会这样形容我。我是说，那是我

Oh, I don't like to talk about myself, but I feel like they would say that I'm very kind, funny of course, and very generous. And I think, I mean, yeah, I think that's how they would describe me. I mean, that's what I

希望他们会说的。没错。没错。我们得去确认一下。

hope they're gonna say. That's right. That's right. We'll have to check with that.

也许他们只会说，好吧。你知道吗？她疯了。你最好离她远点。谁知道呢？

Maybe they're gonna just say, okay. You know what? She's she's crazy. Like, you better just stay away. Who knows?

但那是我的希望。

But I that's that's my hopes.

是啊。是啊。有趣、善良、大方，这三个词真不错。我喜欢。

Yeah. Yeah. Funny, kind, and generous is a good is a good good three. I like this.

等会儿我要去检查一下。看看自己，但现实往往不一样。

I'm gonna check after this. See myself but reality is different.

我们待会儿再检查。

We'll check afterwards.

嗯，现在就问吧。

Yeah, let's just ask now.

问几个——你的场外个人生活对你在球场上的表现有多大影响？

Ask a few How much does your life off the court in your personal life impact your life on the court?

我觉得吧，反正一切都相互关联。关键在于平衡场外和场内的生活。因为我觉得在球场上我特别有冲劲，特别专注，就是在追逐梦想。所以不了解我的人可能会觉得我是个疯子，场上场下都很凶，但其实我不是那样的。场下我更喜欢玩，也爱找乐子。你得平衡，得努力训练，但也得去享受生活，做让自己开心的事。只有生活平衡、开心了，你才能在球场上全力以赴、专注拼搏。

Well I think anyway everything it's you know kind of like works together. So, but I think it's all about like balancing your off the court and on the court life. Because I feel like on the court I'm like really aggressive, I'm so focused, I'm like I'm just chasing my dreams. So I feel like people who doesn't know me they can they can say that I'm super crazy person and super aggressive on and off the court but it's not who I am. I feel like off the court I'm more fun and I love to have fun and you know you have to balance, you have to like put the hard work in but also you have to go and enjoy and do things that brings you joy because then when you balanced and feel like you enjoying your life, then you're able to go there and to, you know, bring everything you have and to fight and to be focused.

是啊，我觉得网球已经做了很多， hopefully 开始让男女更平等。你打球时有没有亲身感受到这种差距？比如媒体总说男女不平等，你有感受到那种压力吗？还是你根本不去想？你怎么看待？

Yeah, I feel tennis has done so much hopefully to start leveling the playing field with men and women. Have you ever felt that divide personally while playing? Like, do you feel the pressure that everyone in the media puts on the sports of like, you know, men and women are not equal, there's this challenge, like, have you felt that or do you feel that doesn't really cross your mind? How do you process that?

我尽量不去想这些，只想把女子运动最好地展现出来。我们当然都在争取奖金平等，但最终谁把观众带进这项运动才是关键。不过现在奖金已经平等了，男女差距越来越小。

I'm trying not to focus on that because I just try to represent women's sport the best way possible. And of course we're all fighting for equal prize money and everything. But also at the end of the day it's all about who brings the show, who brings people into the sport. But I think like now the prize money is equal. Everything is getting closer and closer between men and women.

所以我当然支持，这也是女运动员一直在争取的。谢谢比利·简·金为我们发声。我觉得我们理应拿同样的奖金。当然，由于身体能力，水平可能不同，但我们付出的努力和男选手一样多。

So I, of course, I love it and that's what women athletes are fighting for. Thank you Billie Jean King for, you know, fighting for us. I agree that we deserve to be paid the same. Of course, like the level is different just because of the physical abilities. But the work that we put in is equal to the work that they put in.

当然，水平可能不同，但

Of course, the level can be different, but

它

it

这就是生活。男人天生就该比女人强壮。所以

just it's life. Men meant to be stronger than women. So

是啊，但听到你说你没想过这个问题很有意思，因为我觉得那是因为，我猜你当时只想着打好比赛。

Yeah, but it's interesting to hear that you don't think about it because I think that's, because I guess you've just got to focus on playing the game.

对，你不能，你知道，不能同时关注太多事。你只能专注自己，发挥出最好的自己。当然，也要争取奖金平等，尽量接近男选手的收入等等。我觉得最近女子网球，尤其是网球，女子网球更好看，观众更多，大家讨论得也多。可能是因为这项运动现在很时尚。

Yeah, you cannot, you know, focus on many things. You just got to focus on yourself and bring the best of you. And of course, to fight for having like equal price money to be like closer to what men's are earning and that stuff. And I think like actually lately, women's tennis, especially tennis, women's tennis is more fun to watch, more people coming, attending, people speak more about that. Maybe it's like fashion related because it's such a fashionable sport right now.

但我觉得我们离目标真的很近了。

But I feel like we are getting really close to Matt.

对对对。我觉得这太棒了。我觉得体育界在朝着正确方向努力了很久，正如你说的，比利·简·金为此做出了巨大贡献，太了不起了，真的很棒。

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's been brilliant. I think the sports done a great job at trying to move And in the right direction for a long Billie Jean King, as you said, has been such a reason for that. It's been amazing. So it's incredible.

跟我们聊聊时尚吧，因为你那天一穿上那套衣服，再披上银色外套，我当时就想，阿瑞莎这是要放大招了。你在这些造型上能玩得多开心？

Talk to us about the fashion because as soon as you put your like outfit on that day and you put the silver jacket on and like, I was like, Aretha's like going for it. Like how much fun do you get to have with all of that?

我超爱。你知道，我热爱时尚。我喜欢尝试不同造型。对我来说，在球场上看起来好、感觉好很重要。所以我超喜欢。

I love it. You know, love fashion. I love, you know, I love experimenting with my looks and stuff. And for me it's important, know, to look good on court, to feel good about myself. So I love that.

我觉得这就是要玩得开心，把时尚带进网球。我觉得这也能帮我们推广这项运动。我很享受。

I think it's all about, you know, having fun with it and bringing fashion into tennis. I think it's also gonna help to explore our sport more. So I'm enjoying this.

对对，你看像篮球，尤其在美国，所有篮球运动员都很时尚，这真的把体育和文化紧密连在一起。你造型的灵感从哪来？只是单纯喜欢某个样子？你怎么选颜色、廓形和其他一切？

Yeah, yeah, you see it in sports like, I feel like basketball especially in America, like all the basketball players are very fashionable, like it kind of creates, it brings sports and culture together quite a lot. How do you find your inspiration for your looks? Like, is it just something you like the look of? Like how do you kind of go about picking colors, silhouettes, everything else?

嗯，我开始和造型师卡拉·韦尔奇合作，她是最棒的，她教会我很多，比如怎么混搭，哪些颜色更适合我。她教了我很多，我也关注了很多时尚博主，看她们怎么穿搭，有时候我会找到灵感。我买了好多东西，根本停不下来购物。这是我的弱点。

Well, I started to work with Carla Welch, the stylist, she's the best and she teach me a lot about, know, how to mix stuff together, which colors works better for me. She teaches me a lot and I follow a lot of fashion influencers just to see how they dressed up and sometimes I find the inspiration. I ordered a lot of stuff and I cannot stop shopping. That's my weakness.

是吗？是的。我看到一个片段，比赛结束后，第一件事就是穿上AP，比赛一结束就穿上了，你知道吗？

Is it? Yes. Yeah, there was a clip that I saw where it was like, as soon as after the game, the first thing that went on was the AP. It went on straight after the game. You know,

得照顾比赛的时尚部分，比赛的时尚环节。

gotta take care of the fashion stuff of the game, fashion part of the game.

我喜欢这样，你会驾驭得很好吗？当我与成功人士、经历过风雨的冠军交谈时，我最喜欢聊的就是他们人生中的决定性时刻。我觉得每个人的决定性时刻要么推动你前进，要么拖慢你，甚至击垮你。对你来说，我觉得最大的一个就是失去父亲。对任何人来说，失去父母都是人生旅程中极其重要的一部分。

I love it, will you crush it? When I, one of the things that I love talking to about with successful people, champions who've been through it is like defining moments in their life. You know, I feel like defining moments in every human's life are just, it either propels you forward or it can, you know, slow you down or break you down. And for you, I feel like one of the biggest ones is losing your father. Like that is for anyone losing a parent is such a huge part of their journey.

对你来说，这对你至关重要，因为是这个人把这份热爱带给了你。我们经历那段时光。

For you, it's critical to your journey because it's the person who gave you what you love. Us through that moment in time.

嗯，我希望我现在不会哭出来，但那件事真的出乎意料，就这么突然发生了。那是一段艰难的时刻，因为我跟他非常亲近。我们性格相似，彼此理解得更深。他知道我在球场上挣扎时该对我说什么。

Well, I hope I'm not gonna start crying right now, but it was, it was, unexpectable. It just happened like this. And, it was it was a tough moment because I was so close to him. The reason is because we have similar personalities and we understood each other much better. He knew what to tell me when I was like struggling on court, know.

我只需给他打电话，他说几句话，我就会想，哦，这说得通。所以失去他真的很难。但我没有陷入抑郁，而是决定把他当作仍在我身边，他在我心里，在我的记忆里。他把我养育得非常好。谢谢他。

I would just call him and he would just say a couple things and I would be like, oh, that makes sense. So losing him was a a a tough moment. But, you know, instead of like really going depressed, I just decided to take it as you know, like he's like here with me, he's in my heart, in my memory. He raised me I feel like the best way possible. Thanks.

多亏了他，我觉得我现在能成为冠军就是因为他。我知道他就在我身边，他支持我，照顾我，保护我。是的，我把它当作动力，把我们的姓氏写进历史，多亏了他。

Thanks to him for, you know, like I feel like I'm the champion right now because of him. And I know that he's here with me. He, you know, he supports me, he takes care of me, he protects me. And yeah, I took it as a motivation to put the family name in the history and thanks to him.

嗯，当时你是怎么哀悼的？什么对你有用？我觉得失去某人总是很难，没有完美的哀悼方式，但什么对你有效？你做了什么来处理这件事？

Yeah. How did you grieve at the time? Like what was useful to you? Because I feel losing someone's always hard and there's no perfect way to grieve, but what worked for you? What did you have to do in order to process that?

嗯，我得保持非常坚强，因为妈妈很难承受，她年纪轻轻就失去了深爱的丈夫，这很艰难。所以我必须坚强，不能在人前流露情绪，但那时我经常在没人看见的时候哭。对我最好的方式就是去球场训练。那是唯一让我不去想的时候。

Well, I had to stay really strong because yeah, my mom was, it was tough for her to handle. She was a young woman to lose her husband that she loved, it was tough. So I had to stay really strong and not really show my emotions, but I was crying a lot back then when no one saw me. But the best way for me was to go in court and practice and train. It was the only time when I wouldn't think.

你知道吗，从训练开始到结束，我只专注于网球，不停地击球，一遍又一遍地重复。然后训练一结束，我就会不停地想起过去的事，哭得更厉害。对我来说，最好的方式就是走出去，不停地练、练、练。

You know, at the beginning of the practice till the end I was just focusing on tennis, hitting balls, repetition after repetition. And then the moment the practice would stop I would constantly think, something from the past, start crying harder. That was the best way for me to go through it is like go out and practice and practice and practice.

是啊，我觉得你之后就直接崩溃了，因为——说实话，我很惊讶你训练时还能集中注意力。这太厉害了，因为——

Yeah, I feel like, yeah, I feel like you just break down straight after because it, I mean, I'm surprised you could even focus during the practice. That's impressive because.

是啊，其实我也不清楚怎么做到的，我只是走上球场开始训练，我意识到，好吧，这是我不再想那件事的时刻。于是我练得特别多。

There was, yeah. I don't know how actually, I just figured that I went on court, started practicing, I realized that, okay, this is the moment when I'm not thinking about that. And I was training a lot.

嗯，你试着把一切都倾注进去

Yeah. You were trying to like channel it all into

对，就像放手，让它过去，因为对此你无能为力。我觉得人生中有三件事你完全无法掌控：出生、爱和死亡。所以我想，那是他的旅程，我很感激能和他一起度过二十一年。

Yeah. Like just let it let go, let it go because it's nothing you can do about it. Know, I feel like in life there is like birth, love and death something that you have zero control on. So I was like, it was his journey. I was grateful that I was able to spend twenty one years with him.

而且我知道，他在守护着我。

And yeah, I know that he's protecting me.

这太美好了。谢谢你分享这些。听你讲述这些真的很动人。我妻子最近失去了她的祖母，我总是对人说，我妻子的——我甚至不敢相比——我妻子在这世界上最爱的人就是她的祖母，而她祖母享年九十一岁。

That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. It's so beautiful to hear about. My wife recently lost her grandmother and I always say to people that, my wife's, I don't even come close. My wife's favorite person in the world is her grandmother and her grandma was 91.

她度过了精彩的一生，但失去那个抚养你长大、与你拥有无数回忆的至亲，从来都不容易。你知道，我妻子在她临终前的四个月里每天都在床边陪伴，睡在医院，和她在一起，对我来说，能看到那份爱、那份关系，真的很美好。

She lived an amazing life but losing someone that close to you that's raised you, that you have all these memories with, it's never easy. And, you know, my wife was by her bedside for four months every day before she passed away, like sleeping in hospital and together with her and just, you know, it was beautiful for me to watch just that love, that relationship.

那种连接。

Connection.

对，那种连接，那种深度的爱，以及——我喜欢你刚才说的，出生、爱和死亡是唯一确定的事——你怎么看爱？你对爱的看法是什么？我很感兴趣，既然你提到了这三件重要的事。

Yeah, that connection and that level of love and that level of, and I love what you just said now about how birth, love and death are the only things that are guaranteed and it's, how do you think about love? Like what's your views on love? I'm intrigued seeing as you brought up those three important things.

我觉得爱是无法真正解释的东西，对吧？只要和那个人在一起，你就感到完整，对吧？你觉得舒服，不需要伪装，你们在一起很开心。

I think love is something that you cannot really explain, right? You just feel complete with the person, right? You just feel comfortable. You're not adopting anything. You're having fun.

你爱那个人的一切，因为每个人都有好的一面和坏的一面，对吧？所以你爱全部。我觉得这就是让你心里感到温暖的那种感觉。

You love everything about the person because everyone has good and bad parts, right? So you love everything. And I think that's something that gives you that feeling that, I don't know that like that warm in your heart.

是的，那是一种感觉。

Yeah, it's a feeling.

你会怎么描述呢，对吧？就像，怎么说呢，是的。

How would you describe, you know, right? Like how can, yeah.

对我来说，爱就是有人接受真实的你，你也接受真实的他们。

Love to me is when someone accepts you for who you are and you accept them for who they are.

而且不会改变你，对吧。

And not changing your right.

你不会试图改变他们。没错。我觉得最大的错误就是，要么你希望某人永远不变，要么你希望某人今天就改变，因为如果你和某人相处得够久，他们会变，你也会变。如果我想改变你，那就意味着我一开始就没真正爱过你。所以当我愿意

You're not trying to change them. Exactly. I feel like the biggest mistake is when you either want someone to never change or you want someone to change today because chances are if you spend long enough with someone, they will change and you will change. And if I wanna change you, that means I never really loved you in the first place. So when I'm willing

是的，

to yeah,

当我愿意接受你、陪伴你、理解你，我会努力让自己更好奇而不是评判。没错。因为我在努力理解你为什么是你现在的样子。

when I'm willing to accept and be with you and sit with you and understand you, I'm trying to be more curious than I am judgmental. Exactly. Because I'm trying to understand why you are the way you are and

我喜欢这个说法。

I love that.

是什么让你变成这样的

What made you this way and

我完全同意。

I totally agree.

是啊，因为我觉得在任何关系中都很容易，这不仅仅是恋爱关系。

Yeah, because I feel like it's so easy in any relationship, this isn't just romantic.

想想看

Think it

适用于父母、家人、姐妹、兄弟姐妹、兄弟，所有人。就像，你不知道一个人为什么会是那样。

applies to parents, family, sisters, siblings, brothers, everyone. It's like, you don't know why someone is the way they are.

你不知道他们经历了什么，对吧？是什么让他们变成现在这样，当你理解了这一点，就像你说的，家人、朋友，只是人，对吧？是啊，让你，对，就是感受那个人。

You don't know what they been through, right? What made them the way they are and when you understand that about, like you said, family, friends, just people, right? Yeah. Makes you, yeah, just feel the person.

是啊。你什么时候开始觉得自己成功了，觉得自己是个冠军？你有没有，你有没有这种感觉，还是？

Yeah. When did you start to feel successful and feel like you were a champion? Did you ever, do you feel that way or is there?

我不知道。我从来没想过这个问题。我觉得对我来说，成功就是你投入的那种自律。我觉得这就是成功。就像每天早上都能出现在那里，每次训练都在，不管你感觉如何，不管你想不想做，你知道，因为总有那些你不想起床、不想训练、不想工作的时候，对吧？

I don't know. I never think about that. I think for me success is the discipline that you put in. I think this is success. Like being able to be there every morning, every practice, doesn't matter how you feel, doesn't matter if you want it or don't want to be there, you know, because there is days when you just don't want to go and work or practice and do your job, right?

而如果你还在那里，这就是成功。这意味着你热爱你所做的事，你想要成功。

And if you're still there, this is success. This is meant that you love what you do and you want to be successful.

这是对成功很好的定义。我喜欢这个。这是个很棒的答案。成功其实就是在你不想做、没心情做的时候依然出现。这才是真正的成功。

That's a great definition of success. I love that. That's such a great answer. Success is actually showing up even when you don't want to, when you don't feel like it. That's really what it is.

我想这就是为什么我能够，你知道，举起这些奖杯，因为我从小就在那里，无论发生什么，你知道，我记得身体不舒服还是去训练。但我不知道，有什么东西在驱使我。我就是想去那里。我热爱它。所以我说人们必须找到他们热爱的东西。

Think that's why I'm able to, you know, hold these trophies because I was there like no matter what since like a very young age, you know, I remember going to practice not feeling well. But I don't know, someone was just something was just driving me. Like I was just going there. I loved it. And that's why I say that people have to find something they love.

因为当你热爱某件事时，你所做的就会推动你，让你每天去做到更好，去进步。这很重要。

Because when you love something, what's like what you do. That's what pushes you like to go, to do, to do better every day, like and to improve to. That's important.

我喜欢你所说的。我也在思考我的听众有时会挣扎的一些问题。比如说，有些人很难找到他们热爱的东西。你觉得是不是因为我们对它的看法错了？我觉得有些人认为，如果你热爱某件事，你就会一直喜欢它。

I love what you're saying. And I'm thinking about some of the things I think my audience struggles with sometimes. Let's say you find some people struggle to find something they love. Do you think that's because we have the wrong view of it? Like I think some people think if you love something, you'd always like it.

但你说的意思是，你可以热爱某件事，但仍然会有不喜欢它的日子，我觉得这是一个非常重要的观点。是的。这说得通吗？

But what you're saying is you could love something and there'll still be days where you don't like it, which I think is a really important point. Yeah. That makes sense?

我觉得很多人放弃事情是因为他们觉得，好吧，我不想去那里。这意味着，好吧，我完了。而我认为这其实是你可以取得突破的时刻，你知道，因为你说的对，你说得完全正确。你可以热爱某件事，但同时你也会经历那些你不想去做它的日子。这很正常。

I feel like so many people give up on things because they feel like, okay, I don't want to go there. It means that, okay, I'm done. And I think this is actually the moment where you can make the like breakthrough, you know, because you yeah, like you said, you're absolutely right. You can love something but at the same time you can experience those days when you just don't want to do that. And it's normal.

这很正常。这就是一种例行公事。所以重要的是，如果你一开始热爱某件事，感到快乐，然后突然之间你觉得，好吧，我不想去那里了。这并不意味着你必须改变什么。你必须换工作。

It's normal. It's it's a routine. So it's important to if you love something at first and you felt happy and it like all of a sudden you're like, okay, I don't want to go there. It doesn't mean that you have to change something. You you have to change your job.

你只需要度过这段时期。就像每段关系一样，它不会一直完美。你必须，你知道，经历一些事情。

You just have to go through this period. It's like in every relationship, it's not perfect all the time. You have to, you know, go through something.

你有没有想过放弃？比如在你的人生中有没有一个时刻你觉得，我想就这样了？

Did you ever think about giving up? Like was there ever a time in your

是的，我的职业生涯中有一个时刻，那是三年前？当时我双误频频，我无法发球。我不知道我发生了什么。

life where you were like, I think this is it? Yeah, there was a moment in my career, when was that? Three years ago? When I was double faulting, I couldn't like surf. I don't know what happened with me.

就像我无法发球，只是发生了一些事情，它就是不奏效。而我仍然在打球。我实际上 somehow 打进了前十，即使没有发球。但那真的很……我差点就放弃了，因为我觉得，我不知道怎么解决它。我们试过了一切办法，比如心理方面。

Like I couldn't surf, just something happened and it wouldn't work. And I was I was still playing. I was I actually ended up here in top 10 somehow without the serve. But it was like really I was really close to just quit because I was like, I don't know how to fix it. Like, we tried everything, like psychology.

我们什么都试过了，反复练习，各种方法，全都试过了。我们尝试了所有办法，但就是解决不了。我当时就想，算了，我要放弃了。但后来我们请了一个生物力学专家，他帮我们理解了一些细节。你知道的，我就是这个意思。

We tried everything, going through repetitions, like practicing, like different like everything. We tried everything and we couldn't fix it. And I was like, okay, I'm about to quit. But then we hired the BioMechanic guy and he helped to understand some details. You know, like, so that's what I'm saying.

那一刻对我来说，就是要坚强，要挺过去，永不放弃，你知道吗？我没有放弃。之后我赢得了我的第一个大满贯，那一刻真的太疯狂了，情绪非常非常激动。

Like, it was the moment for me to like, you know, to stay strong, to go through it, to like never give up, you know, and like how we I didn't quit. And after that I was able to win my first grand slam and that moment was crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy emotional.

我觉得事情总是这样，你热爱某件事，但有些东西不对劲，你在挣扎，做不好。

I feel like that's always the case where it's like, you love something. Yeah. Something about it's not working. You're struggling. You're not getting it right.

是啊。

Yeah.

这时候你就需要更投入一点，就像，这就是突破的关键。

That's the point where you're required to be a bit more dedicated. Like it's like, that's where the unlock is.

是的。我觉得宇宙，或者随便你怎么称呼它，会送来这些挑战，是因为你能应对，是有原因的。你知道的，一切发生都有原因。这其实也是让我坚持运动的原因，我当时想，好吧，这是有原因的，我需要做出改变。

Yes. I feel like universe got, well, you call however you want it, send those challenges because you can handle it and for a reason. You know, like everything happens for a reason. And that would actually kept me in sport because I was like, okay, this is happening for a reason. I need to change something, you know.

我觉得你必须经历这些艰难的挑战，才能明白为什么会发生在你身上。这不只是关于运动，生活中的每件事都是如此。

And I think you have to go through this tough challenges to see why, why it happened to you. It's not only about sport in everything in life, you know.

是啊，我觉得这些时刻会给你信心和勇气，当你克服某件事时。我觉得人们忘了自己克服了多少困难。对，就像你刚才说的，我从小就开始坚持。你知道的，你已经坚持了很多年了，而人们以为信心是今天表现出来的样子，或者赢得奖杯，但其实不是的。想想看。

Yeah. And I feel like those are the moments that give you confidence and courage that when you overcome something, whichever, and I think people forget how much they've overcome. Yeah. Like I love that you just said like, I've been just showing up since I was a little kid. Like, you know, you've been showing up for so many years and I think people think confidence is how you show up today or winning a trophy or it's like, no, no, no, like think about it.

每个人在生活中都在坚持。那些为了家庭、为了孩子、为了伴侣去工作的人，他们一直在坚持。如果每个人都能想到自己人生中那些有勇气、有信心坚持下来的时刻，即使当时不想做，你今天就会更有信心，而不是非要等到赢了才觉得自信。

And everyone has showed up in their life. Like the people that are going to work for their kids, for their partner, like people have been showing up. And if everyone could think of all the times in their life where they had the courage, had the confidence to show up even when they didn't want to, you're gonna feel a lot more of that today rather than waiting to win to feel confident.

我觉得信心是一个过程，你是在一步步建立信心的，比如早起，去一个你本不想去的地方，慢慢地建立信心。就是这些小小的步骤。

I think confidence it's a process, know, you're building this confidence like step by step, by waking up the early morning, by showing up somewhere you didn't want to, you know, like slowly building your confidence. It's all about like this little, little steps.

嗯，你有没有什么特别的仪式，或者上场前、比赛当天会做的事？比如你会拍球固定次数吗？你会用特定方式抛球吗？有没有什么对你个人来说很管用的小习惯或小动作？

Yeah. Do you have any unusual rituals or any like things that you do before you go out on court or on a day? Like do you bounce the ball a number of times? Do you throw it a certain way? Is there like a little trick or a little thing that you have personally that works for you?

嗯，整个比赛期间我都吃同样的早餐。这是我的习惯，你知道的。

Well, have the same breakfast. Oh, do? For all the tournament. That's my, you know.

你的固定早餐是什么？

What is your go to breakfast?

哦，我爱牛油果吐司。配两个双面煎蛋，溏心的，必须完美。我为了这鸡蛋可没少给一些地方添麻烦。

Oh, love avocado toast Okay. With two fried eggs from both sides. Over easy, has to be perfect. I gave so much trouble to some of the places with this eggs.

因为必须完美。

Because it has to be perfect.

必须完美。我不知道，也许我疯了。还有旁边的烟熏三文鱼。这就是我的固定搭配。

It has to be perfect. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy. And the smoked salmon on the side. That's my go to.

这就是你的固定早餐。

That's your go to breakfast.

我爱这份早餐。我总是回到这一份。

I love this breakfast. I always come back to this one.

嗯，嗯，非常具体。是的。嗯，挺好的。

Yeah, yeah, very specific. Yes. Yeah, it's good.

也许这个，然后我会想球怎么弹。我觉得这都是习惯。也许我真的会从球筐里挑球。如果我赢了那一分，我总会从，比如右边角落挑球。我是说，角落。

Maybe this and then I think about the bounce in the bowl. I think it's all about the habit. Maybe I actually pick the balls from the ball kits. I always pick from like if I win the point and I pick from like, well it doesn't matter which corner, like for example from the right. Right corner, how I show the right I mean, corner.

我会一直帮那个孩子捡球。

I will keep, like, picking up the balls from from that kid.

明白了。

Got it.

我不知道为什么。只是，它让我，让我，我

I don't know why. It just, gives me give me, I

不知道，一种好感觉。对，对。我们我觉得我们都有这些小习惯。小事情。

don't know, a good feeling. Yeah. Yeah. We I feel like we all have these little things. Little things.

但只要这些事情在你掌控之中，那就好。对。当你依赖一些你无法控制的东西时，那就可能出问题。

But as long as it as these things in your control, it's good. Yeah. When you like, you know, rely on something that is not in your control, then it can become a problem.

对对对，正是如此。说实话，我采访过的每一位能长期保持高水平表现的运动员，比赛日都有固定的早餐。这几乎是个共同特征，比如吃特定的早餐。

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I'd be honest, any athlete I've ever interviewed who has continued to be a high performer in their life for a long time has a definite breakfast for their game day. It's like a very common trait, like to have a specific breakfast.

嗯，你知道的。

Well, you know.

保持这种连续性。

Have that continuity.

因为我喜欢，对我来说，早餐是最重要的一餐。我喜欢坐下来，慢慢享用早餐，喝一杯咖啡，这就是我的仪式，你懂的。

Because I love like, for me, the main meal is breakfast. I like to sit there, enjoy my breakfast, have like, have my cup of coffee and yeah, that's my ritual, know.

对。你觉得谁——我最近问诺瓦克这个问题，他上节目时，我说，你觉得谁是你心理上最强的对手？

Yeah. Who do you, I asked this to Novak recently when he was on the show, was like, who do you consider your toughest opponent mentally?

他说的是谁？

Whom did he say?

他说的是他自己。他自己？这个回答不错。

He said himself. Himself? It's a good answer.

这个回答不错。

It's a good answer.

我把那段剪掉。你也可以这么说。

I'll cut that out. You can say it as well.

嗯，是啊，我自己。谢谢，诺瓦克。嗯。不，我选不出来一个，你知道为什么吗？因为每个人都很强，就像这很难，就像每个人都带来不同的挑战，你知道的。

Well, yeah, myself. Thanks, Novak. Yeah. No, I cannot pick one, you know why? Because everyone is tough, know, like it's tough, like everyone brings like different challenges, you know.

而且很难说，好吧，她对我来说是最强的那个，因为那样你就会低估其他人，那就不对了。所以她们每个人都带来不同的挑战，但我想，诺瓦克，谢谢你。你是最强的，

And it's tough to like say, okay, she's like the toughest one for me because then you underestimate the rest of the group, which is not right. So all of them brings like different challenges, but I think, Nowak, thank you for that. You're the biggest,

最强的，对手。

biggest, competitor.

是的。

Yes.

因为你是那个对自己要求最严格的人。

Cause you're the one pushing yourself the hardest.

没错，没错。

Exactly, exactly.

当然。这是个好回答。那身体上最强的对手是谁？

For sure. It's a good answer. What about your toughest opponent physically?

可可、伊戈尔，对，我觉得这两个人在身体对抗上带来的挑战最大。

Coco, Igor, yeah, these two like I think physically brings the biggest challenge.

在哪方面？

In in what sense?

他们移动非常出色。有时候你组织了一分，可能对别人这球就是制胜分了。但对他们，你有时得重新组织这一分，而且身体上不容易，精神上也不容易，你得时刻准备好球会回过来，你必须身体足够强壮才能承受那种强度。

They they move really great. So sometimes you build a point and probably with others like this show would be a winner. But with them sometimes you have to like rebuild the point and yeah, physically it's not easy physically and mentally it's not easy like to like, you know, strong and be ready that the ball gonna come back every time and you have to like be really strong physically to handle that intensity.

嗯，感觉怎么样？我敢说你肯定有很多年轻网球选手，无论男女，都来找你，被你的经历激励、兴奋。那是什么感觉？

Yeah. How does it feel? Do you have lots of, I'm sure you have so many young tennis players, both men and women coming up to you feeling inspired, feeling excited about your journey. Like how does that feel?

我觉得这就是人生的目标，我一直想成为下一代的好榜样。当孩子们跑过来说，我爱你，你是我的灵感，那才是真正重要的事。

I think that's the goal in life and I always wanted to be a good example for next generation and when kids run to me and say, I love you, you're my inspiration. That's you know, that's what actually matters in life.

你对那些被你激励的年轻运动员说什么？你的建议是什么？你的智慧之言？

What do you say to young athletes who are inspired by you, are moved by you? What's your advice to them? What's your words of wisdom?

和正确的人在一起。这是最关键的。因为和正确的人在一起，你可以实现任何事。

Surround yourself with the right people. That's the main thing. Because with the right people, you can achieve anything.

这建议很好。你花时间去找到身边正确的人了吗？难吗？

That's good advice. Did it take you time to find the right people to surround yourself with? Like, that hard?

很难。真的很难，因为周围有太多，可以说，有趣的人。但确实花了我时间。我很开心我的教练已经陪我多少年了，我的体能教练和网球教练，他们一直在我身边，然后找到合适的经纪人，合适的……嗯，花时间去组建正确团队。

It's hard. It's really hard because there's so many, let's say interesting people around. But yeah, it took me time. I was really happy to have my coach with me for how many years already, my fitness coach and a tennis coach. So they've been there for me and then find the right agent, the right, I mean, yeah, it took time to build the right people.

是啊，确实如此。我觉得在商业、体育，还有所有事情里都一样，要找到

Yeah, it does. I feel like that's true in, again, in business, in sports, in everything, finding

合适的……你会经历艰难，对，你会被某人背叛，人来人往，这就是个过程。但我觉得一旦你找到了自己的伙伴，就该紧紧团结在一起，因为这股力量会给你继续前行的能量和动力。

the right You go through tough, Yeah, you go through being betrayal by someone and you know, like people come, people go, and it's a process. But I feel like the moment you found your people, you better stick to that group because this is what gives you energy and power to keep going.

嗯，我记得我曾跟一位理疗师合作过，我做理疗时也会跟她聊天。很有意思。她有次跟我说，那是好几年前了，大概六年前吧。她说，Jay，真有意思，好像唯一让你焦虑的人都是你花钱雇来的。

Yeah, I remember I had a physical therapist that I was working with at a time, but we ended up talking while I'd be doing physical therapy too. And it was really interesting. She said to me once, this was years ago, this was like maybe six years ago now. And she said to me, she said, Jay, it's funny. Like it feels like the only people that stress you out are the people you pay.

因为她说，每当我倾诉、吐槽时，她发现都是职业圈里的人。她说，看起来你的私人生活很棒，比如我和妻子、家人、姐姐、父母的关系。但她说，好像每次你痛苦，都是因为生意上的事。那一刻对我触动很大，我想，我得好好想想这个问题。

Because she was saying, when I talk, when I am venting, when I'm saying something, she was saying it was only the people in your professional world. She was like, it seems like your personal life's great. Like my relation with my wife, my relation with my family, my sister, my parents. But she was like, oh, it seems like whenever you're going through something painful, it's always to do something in your life that's part of your business. And it really like was like a moment for me because I was like, oh, I've gotta think about this as much.

因为我觉得，至少对我来说，刚起步时，娱乐圈里一个人都不认识，这个世界完全陌生。于是我就拼命想结识聪明、懂行的人，但他们未必跟我在同一能量和频率上，你懂吗？对，对，你明白吧？就像得找到同频的人？

Because I think when I first, at least for me, when I first started moving, I didn't know anyone in the entertainment industry, I didn't know anyone in this world. And so I was just trying to surround myself with people who were smart, who knew what they were doing, but they weren't necessarily on the same energy and vibrancy if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Does that make sense? Like, you've had to find people on the same frequency?

对对，我觉得拥有正能量、契合、彼此理解的人很重要。感觉就像找到了自己的伙伴，你懂吧。

Yeah, yeah, I think it's important to have people with a good energy, the energy that fits and that you, yeah, you understand each other. And this seems like your people, know.

对，所以刚才我们问你想吃什么，你说不用，我的团队了解我。

Yeah, that's why you right now when we said, what do you want to get for food? You were like, no, my team knows me.

他们懂我。

You know, they know.

我信任他们。就是这个意思。对。今年你推出了Arena's Arena，对吧？对。

I trust them. That's what I mean. Yeah. And this year you launched Arena's Arena, right? Yeah.

我很喜欢，它让更多人有了机会。对。你了解你的团队和氛围吗？跟我们聊聊。

Which I love, which is giving people more access. Yeah. Do you know your team and the dynamics? Talk to us about that.

是的，我想分享我自己。我想分享我的生活。我想要生活。我想，你知道，向那些小孩子展示我们都是有血有肉的人，你不必完美才能成功，对吧？

Yeah, I want to share myself. I want to share my life. I want life. I want to, you know, show those little kids that like we're all people, like, you know, you don't have to be perfect to be successful. Right?

我想展示要达到我现在的位置需要付出什么。那是真实的。你只需要努力。

And I want to show like what it takes to, you know, to be where I am. And that that is like that is real. And you just got to work.

我是Radee Devlukha，我是

I'm Radee Devlukha, and I'm

《A Really Good Cry》播客的主持人。我有机会与Logan Urie对话。Logan是一位约会专家、行为科学家、畅销书作者，正在彻底改变我们对爱情和约会的看法。在我们的对话中，我们讨论了Logan研究和测试过的所有约会话题，从约会资料里该放什么，到应该和不应该使用的照片，再到真正有效的开场白，以及人们可能没意识到却在降低配对成功率的大忌。无论你是单身、正在约会，还是只是想更用心地经营爱情，Logan都能提供我们都需要的清晰视角。

the host of A Really Good Cry podcast. And I have the opportunity to talk to Logan Urie. Logan is a dating expert, a behavioral scientist, a best selling author, and someone who is seriously changing the way we think about love and dating. In our conversation, we talk all things dating that Logan has studied and tested from what to put in your dating profile, the pictures you should and shouldn't be using to the conversation starters that actually work and the huge no no's that people probably do not realize are reducing their chances of success on apps. Whether you're single, dating, or just trying to be more intentional in love, Logan offers the kind of clarity we all need.

关系确实需要经营。最好的关系是那些真正一起努力经营的人。他们太专注于“如果我找到完美的人，我就会拥有完美的关系”

Relationships do require work. And the best relationships are people who really work on them together. They're so focused on if I find the perfect person, then I'll have the perfect relationship

嗯。

Mhmm.

而不是真正理解他们可以选择一个很好的人，然后一起建立这段关系。他们不需要一直寻找完美。

Instead of understanding really that they can choose someone great and then build that relationship together. They don't need to keep searching for perfection.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你收听播客的地方收听《A Really Good Cry》。

Listen to a really good cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

欢迎来到《You versus You》播客。我是Lex Barrero，每周我们都会与娱乐圈的大咖坐下来聊聊真实的东西——挣扎、怀疑以及让他们成为今天自己的突破。我们深入探讨童年创伤、家庭、战胜失去，以及塑造他们旅程的关键时刻。这些坦诚的对话旨在摘下我们英雄的披风，希望他们的真实人性能激励你成为更好的自己，从而让你自由地过上梦想中的生活。先听为快。

Welcome to the You versus You podcast. I'm Lex Barrero, and every week, we sit down with some of the biggest names in entertainment to talk about the real stuff, the struggles, the doubts, and the breakthroughs that made them who they are. We go deep, growing childhood trauma, family, overcoming loss, and the moments that shape their journey. These honest conversations are meant to take the cape off our heroes, with the hope that their humanity inspires you to become a better you and therefore set you free to live the life of your dreams. Here's a sneak peek.

我被训练去竞争。我被训练得更强硬。但有时候这种心态会让你忘了停下来，闻一闻自己花园里的花香。

I'm trained to go compete. I'm trained to be, like, harder. But sometimes that mentality stops you from stopping and smelling the flowers in your own garden.

想要更多有错吗？

Is it wrong to want more?

我们移民了。我们家移民到这里。我算是第二代。听着

We migrated. Our family migrated here. I'm like second generation. Listen

收听《你对你》节目，作为Michael Tuda播客网络的一部分，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你收听播客的地方找到。

to You versus You as part of Michael Tuda Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你的整个身份都是被构建的。你深爱的兄弟毫无踪迹地失踪了。你发现了你母亲疾病的深度，它如何在你的一生中回响并产生影响，甚至影响你的传承。嗨，我是Dani Shapiro，这些只是我们第十二季《家族秘密》中我将深入挖掘的深刻而有力的故事中的几个。拥有超过3700万次下载，我们继续被我们的嘉宾和他们勇敢讲述的故事所感动和启发。

Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness, the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our twelfth season of Family Secrets. With over 37,000,000 downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories.

我迫不及待地想与你们分享10个震撼人心的新剧集。关于纠缠不清的身份、隐藏的真相，以及家族秘密几乎总是需要被讲述的方式。希望你们能加入我和我非凡的嘉宾们，共同迎接这一季全新的《家族秘密》。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你收听播客的地方收听《家族秘密》第十二季。

I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you. Stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets season 12 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

事实是，网球是一项非常个人化的运动，我有幸采访过来自许多不同运动项目的人，但网球和F1在某种程度上都非常依赖个人，因为你是那个在赛场上比赛的人。与此同时，正如你所说，确实有一个团队，所以展示这一点很重要，在F1中也有团队。

The truth is tennis is such an individual sport and I've had the fortune of interviewing people from so many different sports, but tennis and Formula One are like so dependent on the individual in the sense that you're the one At playing the the same time, like you said, there is a team and so it's important to show that same in F1, there is a team.

是的。

Yeah.

但就是有那么多，即使在你庆祝那天，比如你赢了的时候，我当时想，等等，当你在球场上时，你必须独自庆祝。就像你赢的那一刻，而如果你看任何其他运动，团队会聚在一起，球员们彼此奔跑，就像，显然你可以在进入看台时那样做，但在那一刻你必须独自品味，就像你跪倒在地时，你知道的。

But there's just so much, even when you celebrate that day, like when you won, I was like, wait a minute, when you're on the court, you have to celebrate on your own. Like the moment you win, whereas if you watch any other sport, the team will come together, players run to each other and it's like, obviously you can do that when you get into the stands, but that moment you've got to savor it like when you drop to your knees and you know.

是的，那是一个非常非常激动人心的时刻。我仍然，你知道，能感受到，因为你知道，是的，你有一个庞大的团队，那些人所投入的工作量令人难以置信。我觉得我有点责任感，因为我知道他们应该拥有最好的教练、最好的经纪人、最好的理疗师、最好的团队，你知道。所以当我出去比赛时，我感到有责任，因为无论他们投入多少努力，最终都取决于我，你知道。他们不知道我是否会全力以赴，是否会赢，你知道。

Yeah, that was very very emotional moment. I still you know feel this because you know, yeah you have a huge team and the amount of work that those guys put in it's incredible. And I feel like kind of like responsible for that because I know that they deserve to be the best coaches, like the best agent, the best physio, the best team, you know. So I feel responsible when I'm out there competing because it doesn't matter how much work they're putting, you know, at the end it's like all depends on me, you know. And they don't know if I'll go out there and I'll play my best and if I'll win, you know.

所以当我参加比赛时，我不仅为自己而战，我为我的团队而战。但我就像在那里，我对此负有责任，你知道，独自一人。

So when I'm there competing, I'm not only competing for myself, I compete for my team. But I'm like there and I'm responsible for that, you know, on my own.

是啊，你背负了很多。

Yeah, you're carrying a lot.

对，确实如此。所以这很艰难。我觉得大多数运动员——不是泛指运动员，而是网球选手和前F1车手——在赢得比赛后会哭，因为你知道，所有压力、脑子里那些东西，慢慢都释放了，你会觉得‘我做到了’。但F1是另一个级别。

Yeah, exactly. So it's tough. And that's why I feel like most of the athletes like they not athletes, but tennis players and formal one, sort of like crying after like winning something because you know, all that pressure, all that things in your head, they just slowly go away and you feel okay, I did it. You know? But Formula one is another level.

我是车迷，我完全不知道他们怎么做到的。感觉他们把自己的生命置于危险之中，速度那么快，那么疯狂。对我来说，这太紧张了。

Like, I'm a fan. I don't I don't know how how they do that. It's like, you know, they put sort of like their life in risk and it's so fast and so crazy. For me, this is intense.

是啊，我的意思是，这都很紧张。

Yeah. I mean, it's all intense.

不，因为网球在分与分、局与局之间有间歇；那些F1车手要连续开多久？一小时左右吧？他们得全程专注，只要一秒走神，就没了，这太难了。

No, because, know, we have breaks like between the points, between the games, Those guys they're there for I don't know how long, like hour and something, right? And they're there and like, if they just lose focus for a second, gone, you know, this is tough.

想到你可能夺走自己或别人的生命，确实可怕，而这项运动已经比以前安全多了。

It is scary knowing that you can take your own life and someone else's and it's got the sport has got so much safer over time. It's

对，现在更安全了，但还是很……

Yeah, know it's safer now, but still, Yeah, you

你有没有什么喜欢并关注的运动？

Are there any sports that you watch that you love that you follow?

我喜欢篮球，也喜欢冰球，但我没有特别死忠的某一支球队。

I love basketball. I love ice hockey, but it's not like I really have like one team.

好的。

Okay.