温迪·铃木：感到压力山大时的两件利器（一分钟缓解焦虑）

为了赶去机场。

To get to the airport.

而锻炼这件事，我坚持的时间甚至更长。

And exercise, I've been doing for even longer.

在锻炼方面我尝试过很多不同的习惯。

I've gone through lots of habits with my exercise.

但养成晨间习惯——不是强迫自己，而是形成一种习惯——即使只有五分钟，我也会做些伸展之类的运动，每天坚持这五分钟并为此感到满足。

But having the morning habit and really forcing myself not forcing, just a habit having the habit of even when I only have five minutes, I'll do some sort of stretch or something for that five minutes every single day and feel good about that.

除此之外，我还会进行30分钟真正出汗的有氧力量训练。

In addition to my good thirty minute cardio strength workout where I really sweat.

所以我觉得我们讨论的都是那些自主选择、能改善心理健康并强化大脑的习惯。

So I mean, think we're both talking about the habits that we choose for ourselves that improve our mental health, strengthen our brain.

这些自主选择的习惯至关重要。

This is what's so important to choose for ourselves.

没错，完全同意。

Yeah, absolutely.

我认为关键在于，你会从一天和大脑中获得更多收获。

And I think the point is you'll get so much more out of your day and your brain.

我经常想，如果跳过这个——我以前对妻子也是这样，她一直向我强调体育活动有多重要。

I think often we think, well, if I skip that, I used to be like this with my wife, she was the one who kept drilling into me how important physical activity was.

而我只是说，不，我很好。

And I was just like, no, I'm fine.

她就说，想象一下你会变得多清醒。

And she was like, imagine how alert you'll be.

想象一下你会变得多专注。

Imagine how focused you'll be.

我当时不相信她。

I didn't believe her.

但当我开始这么做时，我就意识到，哦，她是对的。

And then when I started to do it, I was like, oh, she's right.

这真是件很有意思的事。

And it's such an interesting thing.

人们很容易认为，如果我不花时间冥想、呼吸练习和锻炼，就能完成更多事情。

It's so easy to think I'll accomplish more if I don't make time for meditation, breath work, and working out.

但事实并非如此，你实际上会完成得更少。

But you won't, you'll actually accomplish less.

你会完成。

You'll accomplish.

这是你的发现吗？

Is that what you found?

科学也证实了这一点吗？

Does the science show that too?

你知道，科学表明运动能改善情绪。

You know, the science shows that exercise improves your mood.

它能提升你转移和集中注意力的能力。

It improves your ability to shift and focus your attention.

长期来看，运动还能增强记忆力。

Long term, it will improve your memory.

因此，与不进行锻炼的实验对象或动物相比，坚持锻炼的人大脑功能更佳。

And so compared to subjects or animal subjects that don't do exercise, there is better brain function in those people that are exercising.

所以没错，科学依据支持这一点。

So yes, the science is behind it.

关于冥想还有美妙的科学研究表明，比如僧侣的某些脑区功能会因此增强。

And there's beautiful science in meditation showing that there are brain areas that are enhanced with in monks, for example.

虽然我这辈子都不可能当僧侣。

That's going way I'm never going to be a monk.

但冥想本质上是一种学习如何更好集中注意力的训练，这样我才能专注于你的问题，而不被外界干扰分心。

But the act of meditation is an act of learning how to focus better so that I could focus on your questions and not be distracted by whatever is going on on the outside.

虽然我们现在这个房间很安静，但有时候我在纽约生活。

I mean, we have a nice quiet room, but sometimes I live in New York.

地铁里总是充斥着各种噪音。

We're on the subway and there's so much noise.

当你练习冥想时，就会意识到这种能力对生活多么重要——它让我能选择专注于你。

And when you practice the meditation, you realize how powerful that is for your life, that I could choose to focus on you.

这就是我全部的专注点。

That's all I'm focused on.

我正在深度倾听你。

I'm listening to you deeply.

我正在深入思考这个问题。

I'm thinking about it deeply.

而这种体验是我们大多数人都不够经常获得的。

And that is an experience that not enough of us are having on a very regular basis.

是啊。

Yeah.

为什么当我们尝试这样做时，几乎感觉像是会受伤？

Why does it feel like when we're trying to do that, it almost feels like it hurts?

对吧？

Right?

就像当有人真正试图集中注意力时，就像是在努力凝聚能量，人们会感觉，天啊，保持专注太累人了，简直精疲力尽。

Like when someone's really trying to focus, it's like, you're trying to pull the energy and people can feel like, oh God, it's so tiring or it's exhausting to be present.

这感觉就像你必须强迫自己朝某个方向前进，但却遇到阻力和对抗。

And it almost feels like you're having to pull yourself in a certain direction, but there's some tension and resistance back.

我们正在经历什么？

What are we experiencing?

发生了什么？

What's going on?

我认为部分原因在于我们的生活一直处于同时被十个不同方向拉扯的状态。

You know, I think part of that is our lives have been focused on getting pulled in 10 different directions at the same time.

我们已经习惯了这种状态。

We get used to that.

所以不行，我无法专注听你讲完一小时，因为我通常会被另外三十件事分心。

And so, no, I can't focus on you for a whole hour because I have 30 other things that I usually get pulled into.

这就变成了你的习惯。

And that becomes your habit.

如果这是你的习惯，我认为你需要重新思考这个问题。

If that is your habit, I think you need to rethink that.

肌肉就是这样锻炼出来的。

And muscle it's that you build.

我记得我的本科导师，那位让我想成为神经科学家的女士，她常说学习新事物就像培养新习惯，这个过程会让人感到痛苦。

I remember my undergraduate advisor, the woman who made me want to become a neuroscientist, she used to say that new learning this is a new habit that you're learning will hurt.

这会让你大脑感到疼痛，因为那些树突正在生长、延伸并建立新的连接。

It'll make your brain hurt because it's those dendrites that are growing and stretching out and making new connections.

这不是件容易的事。

It's not an easy thing.

这是一种代谢负担。

It's a metabolic load.

建立新的神经通路需要付出努力。

It is an effort to build new pathways.

但当我们尝试比以往更长时间地集中注意力并保持连接时，我们正是在做这样的事。

But that's what we're doing when we're trying to focus and connect for longer periods of time than we were used to.

好的。

Okay.

所以，感到疼痛是正常的吗？

So, it's okay if it hurts?

哦，当然，完全正常。

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

疼痛是应该的。

It's supposed to hurt.

对。

Right.

这就像你在走一条尚未存在的路。

It's almost like you're walking through a path that doesn't exist yet.

是的。

Yes.

所以你必须自己铺就这条路。

And so you're having to pave that way.

正是如此。

Exactly.

你是第一个走进来的人。

You're the first person walking in.

是啊。

Yeah.

你前方一无所有。

There's nothing ahead of you.

你正在砍倒面前的树木枝叶。

You're chopping down the trees and leaves in front of you.

正是如此。

Exactly.

你

You're

正在建造桥梁，铺设道路。

building the bridge, the pathway.

没错。

Yes.

这就是为什么它会让人感到痛苦。

And that's why it hurts.

当你这样想的时候，会觉得非常有趣。

And it's so interesting when you think about it that way.

是的。

Yeah.

因为你会想，哦，好吧，所以每次我走过那座桥，它都会变得更坚固。

Because you go, oh, okay, so every time I walk over that bridge, it will become stronger.

没错。

Yes.

而每当我踏上那条路，路径就会变得更清晰。

And every time I step on that step, that path becomes clearer.

现在对我来说，每一次都会变得更容易。

And now it's gonna be easier for me every time.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊，这让我着迷的是，对你有益的事似乎总是很难，而对你有害的事却显得很容易。

Yeah, It's fascinating to me just how everything that's good for you seems hard and everything that's bad for you seems easy.

嗯，是的。

Well, yes.

我认为在旅程的某个阶段，情况确实如此。

I think at a certain point of the journey, that is absolutely the case.

但在旅程的不同阶段，当你用砍刀开辟出道路后，能和朋友进行深入交流、与亲友建立这种习惯、养成清晨第一件事不碰手机而冥想的生活方式，会让人感觉无比美好。

But at a different point of the journey, when you've, you know, cut down those trees with your machete, it feels glorious to be able to have these deep conversations with your friends and build that habit with your friends and your loved ones and build that habit of first thing in the morning, no phone and meditation.

而且你知道自己会感觉好得多。

And you know how much better you're going to feel.

而这正是感恩的一部分。

And that is the part of the gratitude.

是的，我有感恩练习的习惯。

Yes, I have a gratitude practice.

就是这样。

It is that.

就像感恩我正在养成的所有好习惯，同时抛弃那些不好的习惯，并感恩自己摆脱了那些坏习惯。

It's like being grateful for all those good habits that I have been forming and throwing those away that I don't and being grateful that I threw that away.

是啊。

Yeah.

我谈了很多关于回到你提到的僧侣大脑的观点。

I talked a lot about going back to your point around monks' brains.

我在第一本书《像僧侣一样思考》中详细讨论过僧侣大脑背后的科学原理。

I talked a lot about the science behind monks' brains in my first book, Think Like a Monk.

我记得在寺院生活时做过的一个简单练习，那对我真的很有帮助。

And I remember a simple practice that we used to do when I lived as a monk, that was really helpful to me.

我们经常用念珠进行冥想。

So we would often meditate on beads, prayer beads.

因为有时我们会用那些念珠连续冥想两小时、四小时甚至更久，所以师父们总是告诫我们。

And we were always told because we'd be meditating on those beads sometimes for two hours at a time, four hours at a time, even more.

所以师父们总是说，当你听到'两小时'这个词时，你会想'天啊，我怎么能熬过两小时？'

And so we were always told when you hear the word two hours, you're just like, God, how am I gonna get through two hours?

我们总是被告知要一次只专注一个节拍，一句咒语，一次只做一件事。

And we're always told just focus on one beat at a time, one mantra at a time, just one at a time.

突然间事情变得简单多了，就像只需要关注眼前这颗念珠。

And all of a sudden it became so much easier where it was just like, it's just about this bead.

只需要专注于这句咒语。

It's just about this mantra.

只需要专注于这一步。

It's just about this step.

而不是纠结那两个小时。

It's not about two hours.

我觉得有时候当我们想着'天啊，我得养成这个新习惯'时。

And I think sometimes when we're thinking, oh gosh, I've to build this new habit.

我必须每周锻炼五天，这感觉就像一座无法逾越的高山。

I've got to work out five days a week and I've got to it's like that just feels so insurmountable.

为什么大脑更适应小步骤、小习惯和小改变呢？

Why does the brain work better with small steps and habits and changes?

这个问题提得太好了。

That's such a great question.

我认为这涉及到投入新事物时的努力，专注于一颗念珠的新奇感，以及与本能抗争的过程——比如'啊，我没能完成100颗念珠'这种想法。

I think that it is part of the effort that goes into something new, the novelty of praying on a single bead and kind of fighting a way that instincts like, Oh, I didn't get through 100 beads.

我是个失败者。

I'm a failure.

这会产生很多认知噪音。

That's a lot of cognitive noise.

我经常说，运动和冥想是两件能立即降低压力与焦虑水平的事，效果非常好。

And I always say for exercise and meditation, two things that could immediately decrease your stress and anxiety levels, it's great.

事实上，我告诉你，我建议所有人都从小处着手。

In fact, I tell you, I tell everybody to start small.

先步行十分钟。

Ten minutes of walking.

甚至不需要换衣服或鞋子。

Don't even have to change your clothes or your shoes.

只需一分钟的深呼吸。

Just a minute of deep breathing.

只需打开手机上的时钟功能，这样你就知道这一分钟有多长。

Just put your phone on, you know, just the clock and just so you know how much that minute is.

仅仅这样做就已经足够好了。

And just doing that is good enough.

真正的努力在于驱散所有关于失败的感受，以及你实际做到的一分钟与你原本想要做的十小时之间的差距。

And the effort comes in batting away all those feelings of failure and the difference between your one minute and ten hours that you really wanted to do.

确实如此。

Definitely.

日常焦虑与焦虑症之间有什么区别？

What's the difference between everyday anxiety and then having an anxiety disorder?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，焦虑是人类正常的情绪。

So, is a normal human emotion.

每个人都有焦虑情绪。

Everybody has anxiety.

我觉得它某种程度上被医学化了。

I think it's been kind of clinicalized.

哦，我有焦虑症。

Oh, I have anxiety.

是的，每个人都有焦虑情绪。

Yeah, everybody has anxiety.

但焦虑存在于一个非常广泛的谱系中。

But anxiety exists on a very, very large spectrum.

所以我们都有焦虑情绪。

So, we all have anxiety.

而最高程度的焦虑确实会阻碍你完成日常生活中必须做的事情。

And yes, the highest levels of anxiety that prevent you from doing the everyday things that you need to do in your life.

比如工作、维系人际关系、外出活动等。

Having a job and having relationships and going out and doing things.

那是临床性的。

That's clinical.

这就像是陷入了焦虑的兔子洞，需要更多帮助，需要临床治疗如认知行为疗法来帮你走出来。

And it is just kind of going down that rabbit hole of anxiety and needing more help, clinical help to get you out with cognitive behavioral therapy.

你可以使用许多不同的技巧。

So many different techniques that you could use.

所以这都是一个谱系的一部分，我希望这能让人们感觉好受些，因为你是可以恢复的。

So it's all part of a spectrum, which I hope that makes people feel better because you can come back.

每个人都会有焦虑。

Everybody has it.

让我们把你从最高焦虑水平拉回来，让你能够利用——我想我的书《有益的焦虑》中最让我喜爱的一点就是，它不是说焦虑很糟糕，让我来告诉你消除生活中焦虑的方法。

Let's just pull you back from that highest level and let you take advantage of I think one of the things I love the most from my book, Good Anxiety, is that it's not about anxiety is so bad, let me just tell you the tools to get rid of it in your life.

而是承认焦虑是一种保护机制。

It is the acknowledgment that anxiety is a protective mechanism.

我的邀请是：我能否邀请你尝试利用你的焦虑来保护自己，实际上它还能给你带来一些礼物或超能力？因为我们可以从焦虑和所有不适情绪中学到很多东西。

My invitation is, can I invite you to try and use your anxiety to help protect you, to actually give you some gifts or superpowers because there's a lot that we can learn from our anxiety and all our uncomfortable emotions?

我觉得人们听到这个可能会想，哦，这很酷，但我真的能相信吗？

I think when people hear that, they may think, oh, that's cool, but don't I believe it.

比如，我真的能相信焦虑可以成为我的超能力吗？

Like, could I believe that anxiety could be my superpower?

我该怎么做呢？

How do I do that?

如何从‘我好害怕’转变为‘其实我还没准备好’？

How do I make that switch from going, I'm scared to actually unprepared?

嗯。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以我先从我认为最容易实施的开始。

So I start with, I think, the easiest to implement.

这个超能力是生产力，它源自一种非常普遍的焦虑形式——就是那种总在‘恰当’时刻冒出来的待办事项清单。

So this one is the superpower of productivity that comes from a very common form of anxiety that everybody has, which is the to do list that comes up at, you know, opportune times.

就像是，哦，你感到不堪重负了。

It's like, oh, you get overwhelmed.

对我来说，它总在我即将入睡时冒出来，让我无法入睡。

For me, it comes up right before I'm going go to sleep, and so it prevents me from going to sleep.

太烦人了。

So annoying.

所以应对方法就是处理这份待办清单。

And so the flip for that is to take the to do list.

首先，我希望你注意到这些都是你关心并想做好事情。

And first, I want you to notice that all of these things are things that you care about doing well.

它们通常与你的工作、人际关系或财务有关。

They're usually about your job or your relationship or money things.

关心这些事很正常。

All good to be concerned about them.

诀窍在于把那些'如果'清单转化为待办清单。

The trick is to take that what if list and turn it into a to do list.

所以对我来说，我不会在半夜做这件事。

And so for me, I don't do it in the middle of the night.

我会等到第二天早上。

I wait till the next morning.

但我已经训练自己，我会处理好每一个担忧并采取积极行动。

But I've trained myself that I'm going to take care of each one of those worries and do something active.

如果工作上有问题，我会找三个人讨论并尝试获取建议。

If there is an issue at work, I'm going to talk to three people about it and try and get input for that.

对于每一个担忧，你都可以采取积极的行动。

There's something active that you can do for every single one of your worries.

当你和更多人讨论时，你会发现高效人士已经在这样做了。

And the more people you talk to about it, you realize that very productive people are already doing this.

所以好好利用这个技巧吧。

So take advantage of that trick.

我无比激动地想与所有爱茶人士分享一件特别的事。

I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there.

即便你不爱喝茶，如果你喜欢清爽、提神又健康的苏打饮料，也请听我说。

And even if you don't love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas that are good for you, listen to this.

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Radhi and I poured our hearts into creating Juni Sparkling Tea with Adaptogens for you because we believe in nurturing your body and with every sip, you'll experience calmness of mind, a refreshing vitality, and a burst of brightness to your day.

Juni注入了神奇的适应原，这些天然成分就像你体内的超级英雄，帮助你适应压力，在忙碌的生活中找到平衡。

Juni is infused with adaptogens that are amazing natural substances that act like superheroes for your body to help you adapt to stress and find balance in your busy life.

我们精选的五种强力成分包括绿茶、南非醉茄、针叶樱桃和猴头菇，它们可能有助于促进新陈代谢、提供天然咖啡因、对抗压力、为身体补充抗氧化剂并刺激大脑功能。

Our superfive blend of these powerful ingredients include green tea, ashwagandha, acerola cherry, and lion's mane mushroom, and these may help boost your metabolism, give you a natural kick of caffeine, combat stress, pack your body with antioxidants, and stimulate brain function.

更棒的是，Juni零糖分且每罐仅含五卡路里。

Even better, Juni has zero sugar and only five calories per can.

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We believe in nurturing and energizing your body while enjoying a truly delicious and refreshing drink.

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记住是drinkjuni.com，务必使用代码on purpose。

That's drinkjuni.com and make sure you use the code on purpose.

是的，我真的很喜欢这个观点。

Yeah, I really like that.

对我真正有帮助的一点是，我总是把我的焦虑看作是在向我揭示一个我尚未掌握的技能。

And one thing that's really helped me is I always look at my anxiety as revealing to me a skill I haven't yet developed.

没错。

Yes.

我真心相信这一点。

And I really believe that.

这就像...这很美。

It's like a That's beautiful.

这是你需要锻炼的肌肉。

It's a muscle that you need to develop.

所以我会想，好吧，如果我对参加这个活动感到焦虑，不得不进行闲聊，那是因为我还没有掌握闲聊的技巧。

So I go, okay, if I'm anxious about going to this event and having to do small talk, it's because I haven't built the skill to be able to do small talk.

是的。

Yes.

所以如果我读一本书、与人交谈、请教专家或收听关于如何展开良好对话的播客，突然间我就知道该问什么问题，至少这会让我感到自在。

So maybe if I read a book or I spoke to someone or I sat down with an expert or I listened to a podcast with an expert on how to have good conversations, all of a sudden now I know what questions to ask and at least it makes me feel comfortable.

没错。

Exactly.

或者如果我因为被要求做某项工作却对其一无所知而感到紧张。

Or if A, I'm nervous about the fact that I've been asked to do something at work and I know nothing about it.

是的。

Yeah.

嘿，那让我去上个相关课程或培训班。

Hey, let me go and take a course on it or a class on it.

我总是把焦虑视为一种信号，表明我缺乏某种技能、尚未培养某种品质、或未发展某种能力或优先级。

And I feel, I always look at anxiety as just a sign of what's a skill I don't have, quality I haven't developed, an ability or a priority I haven't made.

对。

Yeah.

现在让我去培养这种能力。

And now let me do that.

无论是进行艰难对话的能力、学会拒绝的能力，还是设定界限的能力——无论哪种技能，都只差这一步之遥。不是说从此再不会感到焦虑，而是当焦虑出现时我能更好地应对它。

It could be the skill of having tough conversations, the skill of learning to say no, the skill of setting boundaries, whatever it may be, it's just this one skill away to not that I won't feel that anxiety ever again, but that I can actually better manage that anxiety when it arises.

没错。

Right.

我太喜欢这个观点了，因为你刚刚赋予了焦虑一种新的超能力——即对学习的热爱。

I love that because you've just created a new superpower of anxiety, which is the love of learning.

那么你能把焦虑转化为下一个学习课题吗？然后逐渐擅长闲聊或任何你焦虑的事情？

So can you turn your anxieties into the next learning project that you have and then get better at small talk or whatever you're anxious about?

这个理念太棒了。

I love that.

是啊，多年来这是唯一在潜意识里真正帮助过我的方法。

Yeah, no, it's the only thing that's ever helped me for so many years subconsciously.

我一直都有焦虑体验，但随着技能提升，我发现焦虑感确实在逐渐减轻。

I've always experienced anxiety, but I've found that it just got less and less and less as my skills developed.

对对。

Yeah, yeah.

培养这些技能确实很难，需要时间，并不容易，但随着技能的增长，现在感觉就像‘哦，我能应付这个了’。

And developing those skills was hard and that took time and and wasn't easy, but as those skills grew, now it was just like, oh, I can manage this.

我知道我能处理好这个。

I know I can deal with this.

当然总会有让你措手不及的事情，然后你会说‘天哪，我还没掌握应对这个的技能’，但这也没关系。即使这个技能是韧性，或是学会处理悲伤，我觉得这些都是可以锻炼的技能和肌肉。

And of course there are always gonna be things that surprise you and then you go, oh God, have no skills for And this that's okay too but even if the skill is resilience or even if the skill is learning to develop how to deal with grief, I feel these are all skills and muscles.

如果用这种视角看待它们，我们就能更好地应对。

If they're looked at that way, we can deal with them better.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

我是说，那些焦虑其实在告诉你生活中真正珍视的东西。

I mean, those anxieties are really telling you what you hold dear in in your life.

如果你说‘哇’。

If you go, wow.

听起来不错。

That sounds good.

我想知道自己生命中珍视的是什么。

I wanna know what I hold dear in my life.

因为焦虑的另一面，悲伤的另一面，是深沉的爱。

Because the flip side of your anxiety and the flip side of grief is deep love.

所以我认为，当以这种视角看待时，所有这些更困难的情绪都能以新的方式被接纳，而不是试图将它们拒之门外再也不去体验。

And so I think that all of these more difficult emotions when seen in that light can be embraced in a new way instead of trying to kick them out the door and never experience them again.

如果你没有悲伤，那就不算真正活过——因为这表明你从未拥有过那种会在失去时转化为悲伤。

That that is not a full life if you you don't have grief because it suggests you didn't have that deep love that turns into grief when when something goes away.

并非我希望人们经历悲伤，但这个认知让我在悲痛时期获得极大慰藉——除非我对他们的爱如此之深，否则我根本想象不到悲伤会如此刻骨铭心。

Not that I'm wishing people grief, but but that helped me so much in my periods of grief, to realize that that grief would never be so deep that I could never even imagine it before it happened unless the love for those people were so deep in the first place.

这感觉就像，哇。

And it's like, wow.

我比我自己意识到的还要爱他们——能意识到这点本身就是种馈赠，并最终将我拉出悲伤的泥沼。

I I I love them more than I even realized, which was a gift to to realize that and pulled pulled me out of my grief.

哇。

Wow.

这太美了。

That's so beautiful.

你能再多分享一些吗？

Could you share more on that from your Yeah.

从你的角度来说，你是如何真正意识到这一点的？

Perspective of how you actually got to that realization?

嗯。

Yeah.

在你产生这种感受之前是怎样的？

And how was it before you felt that way?

这个领悟确实极大地影响了我撰写《有益的焦虑》这本书的方式，因为在这些事件发生前我就开始写这本书了，原本它会是本基于神经科学的焦虑研究著作。

So that realization really, really defined the way I wrote this book, Good Anxiety, because I started the book before these events, and it was going to be a neuroscience based book on anxiety.

我原本打算解释其中的科学原理让所有人都能理解，进展也很顺利。

And I was going to explain the science of it so everybody could understand, and it was going forward in an exciting way.

然后我父亲去世了。

And then my father passed away.

他当时85岁，患有痴呆症，后来突发心脏病去世。

And he was 85, and he had dementia, and he had a sudden heart attack.

这真的非常非常令人悲痛。

And it was just so, so sad.

我记得当时特别感激由我弟弟致悼词，因为这一直是我人生中最恐惧的事——要站在众人面前谈论刚去世的亲人，还要控制住不让自己崩溃大哭。

And I remember being so grateful that my brother did the eulogy because that has been my biggest fear in in life, to have to do a eulogy and have to stand up and talk about somebody who's just passed without crying uncontrollably.

他的悼词说得非常感人。

He did such a beautiful job.

但接下来的悲剧是，三个月后，我小两岁的弟弟也因心脏病发作去世了。

But the next tragedy was that three months later, my brother, who's two years younger, also passed away of a heart attack.

他是我见过最健康的人。

He was the the most fit person and that you would ever know.

三个月内接连因同样的原因失去他们两人，这打击实在太沉重了。

And that was devastating to to to lose both of them of the same thing within three months.

我试图熬过这段日子，期间暂停了书籍写作，因为沉浸在悲痛中实在无法继续。

And I was trying to go through it, and I stopped writing the book because I couldn't because I was grieving.

然后我意识到我必须由我来致悼词，因为已经没有其他人了。

And then I realized I had to I had to do his eulogy because there was nobody else left.

只剩下我一个人了。

It was it was only me.

于是，我进行了很多灵魂深处的思考。

And and so a lot of soul searching.

我该说些什么呢？

What am I gonna say?

我该如何度过这一切？

How am I gonna get through this?

正是在这段探寻中，我意识到这份悲痛源自善意之地——实际上这个领悟是受到一次健身课的启发，当时教练为了激励我们更努力训练，她说：‘巨大的痛苦会带来深刻的智慧’。

And it was in that search that I realized that that that grief was coming from a good place, and it actually was inspired by a workout that I was doing where the instructor said, trying to get us to work out harder, she said, with great pain comes great wisdom.

我当时心想，天啊。

And I was like, oh my god.

这正是此刻我需要明白的真理。

That's what I need to know right at this moment.

这种我从未经历过的巨大痛苦能带来怎样的智慧？

What is the wisdom that's coming from this huge pain that I've never felt before?

我意识到这份智慧在于：深切的悲伤正向我展示我有多爱他们。

And I realized that the wisdom was that the deep grief was showing me how much I love them.

所以撰写悼词并站起来宣读仍然是我做过最困难的事。

And so it was still hardest thing I've ever done to to to write this eulogy and stand up.

但我在最难熬的时刻邀请所有人一起哭泣，就这样挺了过来。

But I basically invited everybody to cry along with me at the one point that was hardest to get through, and I got through it that way.

但这让我能以完全不同的方式面对悲伤。

But it allowed me to approach grief in a very different way.

我甚至想说我几乎感激这段经历，因为它让我以全新的方式寻找生命中痛苦孕育的美好。

And I wanna say I'm almost thankful for that experience because it made me search for the beauty that comes from the pain in our lives in a brand new way.

非常感谢你的分享。

Well, thank you so much for sharing that.

对你生命中的那段时期我深感遗憾。

And I'm so sorry for that period in your life.

我简直无法想象，谈论压力和焦虑时那种挑战与压力有多大。

I can't imagine yeah, how challenging and stressful that is talking about stress and anxiety.

我真的很感谢你为我们梳理这些关联，因为作为杰出研究者、教授的你拥有如此多深刻见解是一回事，但要在极端情况下将其应用于现实生活却异常艰难。

I really appreciate how you connected the dots for us because it's one thing, you know, you're this incredible researcher, professor, you have so much amazing insight, but then to apply it in real life in extreme cases is so hard.

在那段经历中，你发现了哪些关于大脑的未知认知？

What did you learn about the brain when going through that that you didn't know already?

我意识到我的大脑比想象中更具韧性。

I learned that my brain was more resilient to more resilient than I thought it was.

我拓展了人生中体验过的情感范围，这是件好事。

I expanded the range of my emotions that I had experienced in my life, which is a good thing.

我认为这种相对性很美。

I think that relativism is beautiful.

那种深切的悲痛让我更能体会 joyful 时刻的可贵。

That dark feeling of deep grief helps me appreciate the joyous moments better.

这件事发生后我经常思考这一点。

And I think about that a lot after this has happened.

这确实是我所获赠予的一部分。

It really that was part of the gift I got.

而且，是的，它改变了我看待事物的方式。

And, yes, and it changed the way I looked at.

因为之后我致了悼词。

Because then I did the eulogy.

我从那种状态中走了出来。

I came out of it.

我感觉好多了。

I was feeling better.

好的。

Okay.

我得回到这本关于焦虑的书上。

I have to go back to this book on anxiety.

但我再也无法用同样的方式写它了。

But I couldn't write it in the same way anymore.

我必须发现焦虑带来的礼物或超能力，这些我已经和你分享过了。

I had to find the gifts or the superpowers that came from anxiety, which I've already shared that with you.

但这就是为什么我从来不会...我不知道这些礼物是什么。

But that's the reason why I never would have like, I don't know what the gifts are.

好吧，我确实学会了不要耍花招。

Well, I did learn not trick.

我通过那次经历学到了那个教训。

I learned that lesson through that experience.

并将它应用到了焦虑这种情绪上。

And I applied it to the emotion of anxiety.

我认为这改变了这本书。

And I think it changed the book.

确切地说，知道它改变了这本书。

Well, know it changed the book.

我用一种完全不同的方式写了它。

I wrote it in a completely different way.

自那次经历后，我以不同的方式将这些经验教训应用到了生活中。

And I've used those lessons in a different way in my life since that experience.

太棒了。

Wonderful.

当时你对大脑已有的哪些了解帮助你度过了难关？

And what did you know about the brain already at the time that helped you get through it?

是的。

Yeah.

作为一个书呆子神经科学家，我完全了解压力涉及的机制和受体。

As a nerdy neuroscientist, I know all about the mechanisms and the receptors involved in stress.

虽然我没有专门研究过悲伤本身，但你知道悲伤会带来很多压力。

And not that I studied grief per se, but grief is one you know, that gives you a lot of stress when you have grief.

我认为这让我一生都能将神经科学的学术研究更生动地呈现出来。

I think it I think in my whole life has helped me bring my more academic study of neuroscience to life.

这些经验教训让我能够教授给学生关于压力系统、记忆系统、前额叶皮层和决策制定等迷人课题的知识。

There is the lessons that that I could teach and that I do teach to students about what we know about the stress system, the memory system, your prefrontal cortex, decision making, all these fascinating topics.

但现实生活总会不期而至。

But then there is life that comes in.

我认为近年来我在职业生涯中更多在做的是——在某个节点之前，我一直走着非常传统的学术道路。

And I think that what I've been doing more recently in my career, I did a very traditional academic career up to a certain point.

后来我开始尝试将人生经验与神经科学相结合。

And then I started to try and apply kind of life's lessons to neuroscience.

那么这具体意味着什么呢？

And so what does that mean?

这意味着跳出书本思考，你知道的，用其他方式来表达焦虑，不仅仅是临床部分，还有对你生活有用的部分。

That means going off book and thinking about, you know, other ways to convey anxiety, not just the clinical part, but the useful part for your life.

这就是我的描述方式。

So that's how I would describe it.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

像那样的创伤事件，比如你经历的那三个月，我知道很多朋友也经历过类似或不同的事情，也许与那种方式的悲伤无关，甚至可能是对原本可能拥有的生活的哀悼，比如那些经历分手的人。

How do traumatic events like that, what you went through over a period of three months, and I know so many friends who've been through similar things and different things that may and maybe are not to do with grief in that way, but even grief over life you could have had, people who've had breakups.

情感创伤究竟如何影响大脑？

How does emotional trauma actually affect the brain?

发生了什么？

What's going on?

是的。

Yeah.

要知道，情感创伤也有一个相对简单的发生机制，这要回到压力荷尔蒙皮质醇的作用。

So, you know, emotional trauma also, there's a relatively simple formula with what happens, which is going back to the stress hormone cortisol.

根据实际压力源及其持续时间，它首先会向你的大脑发出警报。

Depending on the actual stressor and the duration of that, it is going to first kind of alert your brain.

就像在说：我不希望这种事再次发生。

It's like, I don't want this to happen again.

仿佛在宣告：这种事不会再发生了。

It's like, this will not happen again.

而这正是它本该发挥的作用。

And that's what it was supposed to do.

它本应增强你的感官，让你能从燃烧的建筑物中逃生。

It's supposed to heighten your senses so you can escape from the burning building.

然而，在其他生活情境中，比如分手或亲人离世，情感影响会持续很长时间，实际上可能导致所谓的恐惧记忆形成。

However, in these other life circumstances, a breakup or death that the emotional effects linger for a long time, they might actually cause what's called fear memories to develop.

这些记忆依赖于一个名为杏仁核的结构，它同样是为了保护你。

These are memories dependent on a structure called the amygdala that, again, are trying to protect you.

就像在说：别再让这种事发生，并引导你远离类似事件。

Like, don't have this happen again and steer you away from events.

所以我可能被引导远离致悼词或在人群前演讲，尽管这些事我经常做。

So I might have been steered away from eulogies or speaking in front of crowds, which I do all the time.

但确实，我本会被引导远离致悼词。

But, yeah, I would have been steered away from eulogies.

当你对这些正在发生的事情有了更广泛的认识时，你实际上可以从中获得更深层次的学习。

When you have these broader realizations about what what's going on, you could actually learn in a deeper way from them.

与其被引导远离，与其形成一种强烈且难以摆脱的恐惧记忆，你可以获得更深层次的认识：分享那些非常个人化、非常深刻、非常难以感受的情感，谈论新突触的形成，是一个极具宣泄作用的过程，它让我与家人以及所有在场的人更加亲近，包括许多我原本不认识的哥哥的朋友们。

And instead of being steered away, instead of developing a fear memory that is very strong and hard to get rid of, you can have a deeper learning that sharing those very personal, very deep, very difficult emotions to feel, talk about new synapses forming, is a deeply cathartic process that brought me closer to my family and to everybody that was there, including all my brother's friends, many of whom I didn't know.

所以，是的。

So, yeah.

Sami gente。

Sami gente.

我是安娜·奥尔蒂斯。

It's Ana Ortiz.

我是马克和德利卡多。

And I'm Mark and Delicado.

你可能知道我们是希尔达和贾斯汀。

You might know us as Hilda And Justin.

来自《丑女贝蒂》。

From Ugly Betty.

我们在剧中饰演母子，但现实生活中我们是挚友。

We played mother and son on the show, but in real life, we're best friends.

而我现在已经长大成人了。

And I'm all grown up now.

欢迎收听我们的新播客《Viva Betty》。

Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty.

耶！

Yay.

哇哦！

Woo hoo.

你能相信已经

Can you believe it has

过去快二十年了吗？

been almost twenty years?

我

I

这简直不可能。

That's not even possible.

你是唯一一个变化这么大的人。

You're the only one that looks that much different.

我看起来完全没变。

I look exactly the same.

我们正在从头到尾重温这部剧集，深入探讨所有时尚元素、戏剧冲突以及幕后故事

We're rewatching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama, and the behind the scenes moments

那些你从未听说过的。

that you've never heard before.

你将听到来自嘉宾们的分享，比如亚美莉卡·费雷拉、凡妮莎·威廉姆斯、迈克尔·尤瑞、贝基·纽顿、托尼·普拉纳等等。

You're gonna hear from guests like America Ferrera, Vanessa Williams, Michael Urie, Becky Newton, Tony Planner, and so many more.

每一位都是传奇人物。

Icons each and every one.

突然有人朝我跑来，原来是萨尔玛·海耶克。

All of a sudden, like, someone, like, comes running up to me, and it's Selma Hayek.

她对我说：你就是我的丑女贝蒂。

And she's like, you are my ugly Betty.

我当时心想：她到底在说什么啊？

And I was like, what is she even talking about?

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方，收听作为My Cultura播客网络一部分的《Viva Betty》。

Listen to Viva Betty as part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

嘿。

Hey.

我是诺拉·琼斯，我太喜欢和人一起玩音乐了，所以我的播客《一起演奏》又回来了。

I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back.

我与来自各种音乐风格的乐手们围坐在一起，在亲密的氛围中共同演奏歌曲。

I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting.

每一期都略有不同，但都包含音乐和与我喜爱的音乐家们的对话。

Every episode's a little bit different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians.

在过去的两季中，我邀请了特别嘉宾如戴夫·格罗尔、莱夫、鲁弗斯·温莱特、雷米·沃尔夫、马克·雷比尔、梅维斯·斯泰普斯等等，实在不胜枚举。

Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Rufus Wainwright, Remy Wolf, Marc Rebier, Mavis Staples, really too many to name.

而在新一季中还有更多精彩内容，包括强大的迷幻二人组Black Pumas、我的老友兼长期创作伙伴杰西·哈里斯，以及传奇人物露辛达·威廉姆斯。

And there's still so much more to come in this new season, including the powerful psychedelic duo, Black Pumas, my old pal and longtime songwriting friend, Jesse Harris, and the legendary Lucinda Williams.

在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方，收听诺拉·琼斯的《一起演奏》。

Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

一位身怀秘密的军医，一个建立在权力与特权之上的世界，以及今年最出人意料的创意组合。

A combat surgeon with secrets, a world built on power and privilege, and the most unexpected creative duo of the year.

作为一名多年演员，我总是走进别人的故事里。

As an actor for so many years, I would always walk into other people's stories.

于是我想，为什么不自己尝试写故事呢？

And I thought, well, why don't I give it a shot, you know, and try to write it myself?

本周，由瑞茜读书俱乐部推出的Bookmarked节目在纽约苏豪区开播，瑞茜·威瑟斯彭与哈兰·科本这对黄金搭档将亮相，他们正是《消失》背后的创作团队，该书现已成为《纽约时报》畅销书。

This week, bookmarked by Reese's Book Club goes live from Soho in New York City with Reese Witherspoon and Harlan Coben, the powerhouse team behind Gone Before Goodbye, now a New York Times bestseller.

我觉得我们俩当时就立刻意识到这事会发生。

I think we both knew right away that this was gonna happen.

这是一场关于恐惧、野心以及两位叙事大师碰撞时会发生什么的对话。

It's a conversation about fear, ambition, and what happens when two master storytellers collide.

我从未见过女性出现在类似詹姆斯·邦德的世界里。

I've never seen a woman in kind of a James Bond world.

来感受惊悚，留下享受惊喜。

Come for the chills and stay for the surprises.

看看读者为何对它爱不释手。

And find out why readers can't put it down.

请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的平台收听《瑞茜读书俱乐部》的《书签》栏目。

Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们有可能为未来的创伤做准备吗？还是说唯一的准备方式就是亲身经历？

Is it possible to prepare for future trauma or is the only way to be prepared for it to go through it?

我们能在创伤事件发生前培养韧性吗？

Can we build resilience before a traumatic event?

是的，我觉得我不建议每个人都去尝试为创伤做准备，但你知道，每个人都会经历某种形式的创伤。

Yeah, I think I wouldn't recommend that everybody goes out to try and prepare for trauma, but, you know, everybody has some form of trauma.

我认为要回到你焦虑这个超能力上并从中学习。同时意识到——这也是我另一个重要的领悟。

And I think going back to your superpower of anxiety and learning from that And also realizing this was another big realization for me.

你无法摆脱那种深层的负面情绪。

You're not going to get rid of that deep negative emotion.

它的存在是有原因的，是为了警告你这段时间不好。

It's there for a reason to warn you against this is a bad time.

如果没有这种警告，你可能会毫无顾忌地走在高速公路中央。

If you didn't have this warning, you would be walking in the middle of the freeway with no care in the world.

所以你是无法摆脱它的。

So you're not going to get rid of that.

但要专注于从中获得的教训，是的，这可能需要一些时间，要给自己这个时间。

But to focus yourself on the learning that comes out of it And and that that, yes, it might take some time and to give yourself that time.

也许我想说的是，从任何创伤中都能产生的自我同情，学会将其应用到自己身上，我认为这是你可以做到的一件非常好的事情

Maybe what I'm trying to get at is the self compassion that can come from any trauma that you have and learning to apply that to yourself, I think is a really good thing that you can

准备。

prepare.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为当你失去所爱之人时，内心的痛苦感受是在提醒我们生命是珍贵的。

I think when you lose someone you love, that painful feeling inside is a reminder that life is sacred.

是的。

Yes.

你应该告诉亲近的人你爱他们。

That you should tell the people that are close to you that you love them.

没错。

Yeah.

你应当真正珍惜并优先考虑共处的时光。

That you should really value and prioritize time together and moments together.

这种痛苦在推动你走向正确的方向，提醒你不要在生活中搞错优先级和关注点。

It's a reminder that pain's just pushing you in the right direction, nudging you in the right direction to say, don't make the wrong priorities, don't set the wrong focuses in your life.

对。

Right.

如果这种痛苦消失了，我们也会随之遗忘这些道理。

And if it went away as it does, we also forget that.

是的。

Yeah.

随着失去某人后时间的推移，以及痛苦感受的疏远，并非痛苦完全消失，而是它会逐渐减轻、再减轻。

As the distance grows from when you've lost someone and the distance from that pain, it's not that pain goes away, but it gets less and less and less.

我们也会忘记这一点。

We also forget that.

然后突然间又发生其他事情，我们就重新调整了优先级，对吧？

And then all of a sudden something else happens again and we've reprioritized, right?

完全正确。

Absolutely.

为什么我们会忘记已经学到的教训？

Why do we forget lessons that we learn?

嗯，如果我能回答这个问题，那将是价值6400万美元的难题。

Well, if I could answer that, that would be the $64,000,000 question.

事实上，部分答案在于大脑进化是为了帮助我们记住那些危险情境中的教训，这样我们就不会再重蹈覆辙。

And actually, part of the answer is the brain evolved to help us remember those lessons around dangerous situations that we have so we don't go in that direction anymore.

是的，我们可能会忘记。

Yes, we might forget.

但实际上，我们的大脑已经进化得让那些恐惧记忆或困难记忆最难消除。

But actually, our brain has evolved to make those kinds of fear memories or difficulty memories the hardest to get rid of.

这就是为什么创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）如此难以摆脱。

That is why PTSD is so hard to get rid of.

而这些记忆是你不想随身携带的。

And those you don't want to be carrying around.

所以，我想反问一个问题：为什么我们不更频繁地重温最辉煌的记忆？事实上，我想到这个是因为那是我从《有益的焦虑》中最喜欢的大脑技巧，这些工具可以用来减少你的焦虑。

So, I would ask a flip question, which is how come we don't relive our most glorious memories more often And in our in fact, I think of that because that is my favorite brain hack from good anxiety, which are tools that you can use to decrease your anxiety.

这个工具被称为快乐条件反射。

And this tool is called joy conditioning.

它专门设计用来对抗依赖杏仁核的恐惧条件反射。

And it is designed specifically to counter fear conditioning dependent on the amygdala.

快乐条件反射依赖另一个叫做海马体的结构，它让我们能够形成并保留日常事件记忆。

Joy conditioning is dependent on another structure called the hippocampus, which allows us to form and retain our everyday memories for events.

因此，快乐条件反射就是运用我们所知的神经科学原理，通过重温美好记忆来强化这些记忆。

And so, joy conditioning is simply using all the tools that we know about neuroscience that make those kinds of memories stick, which is reliving them.

我刚参加了一个为期一周的美妙瑜伽呼吸训练。

I just went on a beautiful week long yoga breath work.

其实那不是瑜伽，而是一个呼吸训练静修营。

It was actually not yoga, breath work retreat.

我完全与外界断联了。

And I completely unplugged.

所以我现在练习快乐条件反射的内容，就是回忆每天清晨和午后在那个圈子里的感受。

And so what I'm practicing my joy conditioning on is what it felt to be in that circle every day, every morning, every afternoon.

我记得海浪声特别响亮。

I remember that the ocean was so loud.

我们就住在海边。

We were right by the sea.

天气炎热难耐。

The heat was so hot.

那些食物或水果简直太棒了，尤其是水果的风味。

The food or the fruits were so amazing, just the flavor of the fruits.

正是这些事物——那些对时间、地点、缘由的鲜活重现，那些味道、气息和声响——强化了记忆。

And those are the things that that that revivification of the what, where, why, when, the taste, the smells, the sounds, that's what strengthens the memory.

我正在强化这段快乐的记忆。

I am strengthening this joyous memory.

而且我是有意识地这么做。

And I do that consciously.

我邀请大家都这样做，以此来抵消那些难以摆脱的负面记忆。

And I invite everybody to do this, to kind of counteract all those negative memories that are hard to get rid of.

让我们用生命中最欢乐、最有趣的回忆填满大脑吧。

Let's let's fill our brains with all the most joyous, funny, fun memories of our lives.

是啊。

Yeah.

我太喜欢这个观点了。

I I love that.

快乐训练真是个绝妙的技巧和习惯。

Joy conditioning is such a great hack and habit.

去年我巡演的时候，我们去了全球近40个城市。

There was when I went on tour last year, we went to nearly 40 cities across the world.

哇。

Wow.

每场结束时，我都会带领大家冥想。

And at the end of them, I'd lead a meditation.

虽然当时没给它命名，但那正是我做的冥想方式。

And I didn't have a name for it, but that's exactly the meditation I do.

我会让每个人回想他们体验过最多爱与快乐的时刻。

I ask everyone to go back to a moment where they experienced the most love and joy in Yeah.

并重新感受那些情绪。

Their And to relive it in the feelings.

这让我想起今年早些时候，你提到呼吸法静修时提醒了我。

And I was thinking about earlier this year, you reminded me as you were talking about your breath work retreat.

是的。

Yeah.

今年早些时候，我去了不丹，以前从未去过。

Earlier this year, I visited Bhutan and I'd never been before.

对于不了解的人来说，不丹是一个夹在印度和中国之间的小而美丽的国家，正好位于中间。

And for anyone who doesn't know, Bhutan is this tiny beautiful country landlocked between India and China, right in between.

它拥有美丽的文化。

And it's got a beautiful culture.

他们以测量国民幸福总值（GNH）而非国内生产总值（GDP）而闻名，GNH即国民幸福总值。

They're famously known for measuring GNH, not GDP and GNH is gross national happiness.

因此，不丹的文化非常注重正念和活在当下。

And so it's the culture of Bhutan is very, very much mindful and being present.

我被邀请在那里主持一场活动，记得我们走进了一座古老的不丹建筑。

And I was asked to lead a session there and I remember we'd gone inside one of these old Bhutanese buildings.

那是一个美丽的庭院，四周点满了蜡烛。

It was, we're in this beautiful courtyard surrounded by candles.

是的。

Yeah.

天变得非常非常黑，虽然我在做演示，但没人能看见我，他们只能听到我的声音。

It got really, really dark where even though I was giving a presentation, no one could see me, they could only hear me.

是的。

Yeah.

在天完全黑之前，太阳即将落山时，我让大家在脑海中拍一张照片。

And before it got dark, when it was just, the sun was about to set, I asked everyone to take a mental picture.

我一直很喜欢这个技巧，五、四、三、二、一技巧。

And I always loved that technique, the five, four, three, two, one technique.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我让大家看五样能看到的东西，摸四样能触摸的东西，听三样能听到的声音，闻两样能闻到的气息，尝一样能尝到的味道。

And so I asked everyone to look at five things they could see, four things they could touch, three things they could hear, two things they could smell and one thing they could taste.

我当时就说，这就是我们如何在脑海中拍照片的方法。

And I was like, this is how we take a mental picture.

现在只要我闭上眼睛，就能立刻回到那一刻，因为我记住了那些色彩，就像你刚才说的，记住了天空的色调，记住了不丹建筑的轮廓。

And now literally, if I close my eyes, I can go back there right now to that moment because I took in the colors, like you were just saying, took in the shade of the sky, took in the shapes of the Bhutanese architecture.

哇。

Wow.

所有这些，就像你描述的水果和颜色那样。是的。

Like all of these, and as you were describing the fruits and the colors Yes.

而且我觉得如果我们都...我很喜欢你所说的，因为确实我们的生活中有那么多欢乐，但我们却总是重温那些负面情绪。是的。

And the And I just feel like if we all, I love what you're saying because I do think we have so much joy in our lives, but we've relived the negativity Yes.

你们来这里的路途艰难，或者我经历了困难，我们会整天谈论这有多不容易。

And you had a tough journey coming here or I did, we would talk about how tough it was the whole day.

但如果我们来这里的旅程无比美好，我们却一次都不会提起。

But if we had the most beautiful journey coming here, we wouldn't talk about it once.

确实如此。

Exactly.

我们只是忽略它，觉得那很正常。

And we just ignore it and feel like, well, that's normal.

是啊。

Yeah.

但反复诉说我们的困境已经成为常态。

But what's become normal is us repeating our challenges.

什么时候讨论问题和焦虑能真正帮助而非伤害我们的大脑？

When does talking about our problems and our anxiety actually help our brain versus hurt our brain?

我认为这取决于你如何谈论你的焦虑。

I think it depends on how you talk about your anxiety.

我想再次强调学习过程——你能将焦虑视为它带给你的收获吗？无论是你应对焦虑的成功经验还是不足？

And I think, again, going back to this learning process, can you talk about your anxiety as what it brings you, what you learned from either the fantastic way you handled your anxiety or the non optimal way?

然后思考：下次我会如何以不同方式处理？

And then think about, well, how will I do that differently the next time?

这就是典型的成长型思维。

That is the classic growth mindset.

如果我们能学会以这种方式谈论恐惧和焦虑，那将非常美好。

And if we can learn how to talk about our fear, our anxiety that way, that is beautiful.

今早冥想时，其实是在听一段引导式冥想音频。

In my meditation this morning, actually, it was an auditory, you know, I was listening to a guided meditation.

他们让我思考四件事，我特别喜欢这个环节。

They asked me to think about four things, and I just loved it.

我完全没想到会突然出现这个内容。

I didn't know this was coming up.

问题是：你在害怕什么？

It was, what do you fear?

什么让你感到恐惧？

What scares you?

什么能带给你快乐？

What brings you joy?

又是什么能带给你希望？

And what brings you hope?

我当时心想：哇，这些都是多值得深思的好问题啊。

And I thought, wow, what great things to ponder.

当我开始思考脑海中浮现的第一个问题——我害怕什么时，这一切突然变得清晰起来。

And it really kind of brought things into focus for me when I did the first thing that came to mind, what do I fear?

我更害怕失去谁？还是失去更多人？

Who do I fear losing more people?

我究竟在害怕什么？

What am I scared of?

答案就在那里，你知道，我害怕别人对我的看法。

And there it was, you know, I get scared of people's opinions about myself.

什么能带给我快乐？

What brings me joy?

所有给我带来欢乐的朋友们。

All the friends that bring me joy.

而当我想要在这个世界有所建树时，我期待着什么？

And what do I hope for when I want to build in this world?

所以关键在于如何面对。

So it's about approaching.

这份清单中蕴含着焦虑，如果人们选择做这四件事，每个人都会经历这种焦虑。

And there's anxiety in that list that everybody will do if they choose to do those four things.

但再次强调，焦虑其实是在指引你关注你所珍视的事物。

But again, anxiety is pointing you towards what you hold dear.

所有这些问题都揭示了你所珍视的东西和你的抱负所在。

And all of those questions point out what you hold dear and what your aspirations are.

总结来说，心态至关重要——即使在我们谈论糟糕的一天、糟糕的停车经历或驾驶经历时也是如此。

So, to summarize, mindset is so critical as we are living, even as we're talking about our bad day, you know, our bad parking experience or driving experience.

是为了学习？还是为了抱怨？

Is it to learn Or is it to commiserate?

或者你根本没意识到自己过度关注负面事物了？

Or just to, you know, or you're not realizing you are focusing too much on a negative thing?

心态与觉察力。

Mindset and awareness.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且，你所说的这种过度放大，实际上是把原本微不足道的事情夸大了。

And also, what you're saying is this over amplification as well of something that actually was quite insignificant.

是的。

Yeah.

或者如果事情确实重要，你是在讨论如何以承担责任和未来问责的方式来看待或谈论我们的挑战。

Or if it was significant, you're talking about looking at our challenges or talking about them in a way that takes accountability and future accountability.

这正是我欣赏的地方。

And that's what I love.

这个想法是，好吧，让我谈谈今天哪里出了问题，也许我不该再走那条上班路线了。

Idea of, well, let me talk about what went wrong today and maybe I shouldn't take that route to work anymore.

或者，让我谈谈和所爱之人的这次对话哪里出了问题，也许我需要设定更好的界限。

Or, you know, maybe let me talk about what went wrong in this conversation with someone I love and maybe I've got to set better boundaries.

正如你所说，这始终是以解决方案为导向的成长型思维。

It's always about a solution oriented growth focus, as you said.

但今天我们太多关于焦虑和压力的对话都是基于受害者心态的。

But so many of our conversations today, especially about anxiety and stress are victim based.

是的。

Yes.

我们该如何实现这种转变？

How do we make that switch?

因为当你觉得自己是受害者时，那种感受对你来说无比真实。

Because when you feel like the victim, it feels so real to you.

确实如此。

It does, yeah.

如果有人问‘你本可以采取哪些不同做法？’，你会感到非常受伤

And you do feel so hurt that if someone said, Well, what could you do differently?

你会回答‘没有’

You'd be like, Nothing.

我已经竭尽全力做到最好了

I did everything the best I could.

那么我们该如何实现从焦虑到成长的思维转变呢？

So how do we open up that switch from anxiety to growth?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，我认为对我真正有帮助的是要注意你在和谁交谈，谁在影响你的生活信息。

So, I think that something that has really helped me is to pay attention to who you are talking to, who is feeding you information in your life.

如果太过消极，你知道这个人是世界上最好的抱怨者，而你因为和朋友一起抱怨某事感觉很爽而加入其中，那就退后一步，转而选择一个拥有成长型思维的人，他们能为你打开其他可能的思考方式。

And if it's too negative and you know this person is the best complainer in the world and you join in because it feels good to complain with a friend about something, step back and instead choose somebody who has that growth mindset that can open up other possible ways to think about that.

自己动手做。

Do it yourself.

想想，好吧，你可以做个练习。

Think, Okay, you can do an exercise.

先用抱怨者心态对自己独处时进行练习，然后再用成长型心态做一次。

Do the complainer mindset on yourself, by yourself, and then do the growth mindset.

问问自己，那种感觉如何？

And ask yourself, how does that feel?

如果我只是一味抱怨会有什么感觉？而如果像'哦，我其实喜欢那个想法'又会怎样？

What does it feel if I just go down the road of the complainer versus what if like, Oh, I actually like that idea.