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这是iHeart广播的《保证人性》节目。
This is a IHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.
我是乔纳森·戈德斯坦。
I'm Jonathan Goldstein.
在《重量级》新一季中
And on the new season of Heavyweight
于是我将枪对准他，说：这可不是开玩笑。
And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke.
一个14岁时抢劫银行的男人。
A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old.
一位百岁老人重新找回了八十年前失去的爱。
And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost eighty years ago.
一位101岁的女性如何再次坠入爱河？
How can a 101 year old woman fall in love again?
请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《重量级》。
Listen to heavyweight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
本周在《亲爱的切尔西》，由切尔西·哈纳德主持，尼古拉斯·斯帕克斯做客。
This week on dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Nicholas Sparks is here.
我猜你一定收到过很多反馈，说你树立的浪漫标准让很多男性难以企及。
I would imagine that you've gotten a lot of of feedback about setting a standard of romance that a lot of men can't measure up to.
我听过一些故事。
I have heard stories.
与此同时，我在签书排队时收到了七次求婚。
At the same time, I've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book.
真的吗？
Really?
他直接跪在了地上。
To the table.
多德尔双膝一软，我就说：老兄，你可是在阿拉巴马州伯明翰的沃尔玛里啊。
Doodle dropped his knees, and I'm like, dude, you're in a Walmart in Birmingham, Alabama.
你知道的？
You know?
在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《亲爱的切尔西》。
Listen to dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
嗨，朋友们。
Hi, friends.
我是索菲亚·布什，《工作进行中》的主持人。
Sofia Bush here, host of Work in Progress.
本周，我们迎来了一位特别的嘉宾，她是导师、朋友、妻子、母亲、作家、律师、倡导者、电视制片人，现在她又新增了播客主持人这一身份。
This week, we had such a special guest, a mentor, a friend, a wife, a mother, an author, attorney, advocate, television producer, and now she adds podcast host to the list.
米歇尔·奥巴马来了。
Michelle Obama is here.
索菲亚，能坐下来和你聊天，我感到无比兴奋。
Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled to be able to sit down and chat with you.
在全美排名第一的播客网络iHeart上收听《工作进行中》。
Listen to work in progress on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
打开你免费的iHeart视频应用，搜索《工作进行中》，立即收听。
Open your free iHeart video app, search work in progress and listen now.
大家好。
Hey, everyone.
欢迎回到我的播客频道。
Welcome back to my podcast channel.
非常感谢你们的到来。
Thank you so much for being here.
如果你还没有订阅，请务必订阅，这样你就不会错过任何一期节目。
If you haven't subscribed already, make sure you do so that you never miss an episode.
现在我想问问你们，今年哪个时刻对你们改变最大？
Now I want to ask you what moment changed you the most this year?
今年在你们的生活中，哪里是你们成长最多的？即使当时看起来并不像成长。
Where in your life did you grow the most this year, even if it didn't look like growth at the time?
如果你们今年最艰难的时刻，其实是为未来做准备的时刻呢？
What if the toughest moment of your year was actually the moment preparing you for what's next?
年底总是反思的时刻，回顾我们的旅程、学到的教训以及我们所经历的成长。
The end of the year is always a time for reflection, a time to look back at our journeys, our lessons and the growth we've experienced.
有些时刻挑战了我们，有些激励了我们，还有一些提醒我们临在、勇气和连接的力量。
Some moments challenged us, some inspire us, and some remind us of the power of presence, courage and connection.
在这个特别的合集中，我们重温了《有目的》节目中今年最有力的对话，聆听嘉宾们真挚、富有洞察力且源自亲身经历的故事，这些故事为我们迈向2026年提供了宝贵的指引。
In this special compilation, we revisit some of the year's most powerful conversations on On Purpose, deeply personal stories from guests whose honesty, insight, and lived experiences offer invaluable guidance as we move into 2026.
这里分享的视角不仅仅是故事。
The perspectives shared here are more than stories.
它们是切实可行的路线图，教我们如何成长、重启并有意识地迈向新的一年。
They're practical roadmaps for how to grow, reset, and move intentionally into the year ahead.
让我们开始吧。
Let's get into it.
排名第一的健康与福祉播客。
The number one health and wellness podcast.
杰·杰·谢蒂。
Jay Jay Shetty.
独一无二的杰·谢蒂。
The one, the only Jay Shetty.
塞琳娜和本尼带我们走进了他们的爱情故事，分享了脆弱、耐心和幽默如何塑造了他们的关系。
Selena and Benny take us into the heart of their love story, sharing how vulnerability, patience and humor have shaped their relationship.
起初是两位年轻艺术家之间的友谊，逐渐发展为爱情，提醒我们连接源于陪伴、笑声和细微的关怀。
What started as a friendship between two young artists blossomed into love, reminding us that connection grows through presence, laughter and small acts of care.
我刚才说，看着你们的爱情故事，我知道塞琳娜你两秒前还说，这里真是一个安全又温馨的地方。
I was saying that watching both your love story and I know you were saying, Selena, two seconds ago, you're like, this is such a safe and cozy space to come to.
我希望今天能更深入地了解你们的爱情故事。
I'm hoping that today we get to know your love story on a deeper level.
并真正触及你们内心和思想深处的东西，因为我觉得有太多访谈都只停留在表面，但我希望我们能
And we get to access really what's in your hearts and minds because I think there's so many interviews and so many things that kind of will touch on the surface level of stuff, but I hope we
深入探讨。
can go deeper.
所以我想
So what I
我想从回溯开始，不是重述这个故事，而是和你们一起重新体验它。
want to start with is I want to actually rewind I wanna rewind to a place where we don't retell the story but we get to relive your story with you.
我认为这其中有区别，因为当我们讲述一个故事时，就像是在说‘发生了什么’，但当我们重新体验它时，几乎就像是回到了当时那个时刻的自己。
And I think there's a difference because when we tell a story, it's like, this is what happened but when we relive it, it's almost like going back to who we were when that happened.
所以我想回到你们第一次见面的时候，我想听听那段经历。
So I wanna go back to the first time you ever met, and I wanna hear about it.
有趣的是，那件事太久了，我们已经不记得了。
Well, the funny thing is is we actually it was so long ago that we don't remember.
我们知道是她的妈妈安排我们见面的，那时候你多大？
We we we know that her mother put us in a meeting together when, how old were you?
16岁。
16.
所以她当时16岁。
So she was 16.
哇。
Wow.
我没想到那会是那么早
I didn't realize it was that
而且说来话长，我比你大四五岁。
And long and well, I'm like four or five years older than you.
所以我当时大概是二十岁或二十一岁。
So I was probably 20, 21.
她妈妈想把大家聚在一起搞音乐，她妈妈真的很厉害，总是在各个房间穿梭，张罗各种东西。
And her mom was trying to gather into music and her mom is amazing the way she goes from room to room, gets things to show.
是的。
Yeah.
她是个能量爆棚的人。
She's a powerhouse.
她能让事情发生，不知怎么的，她安排了我们见面，但我们已经不记得了。
Gets things to happen and, you know, and somehow she got us a meeting together and we don't remember that.
而且，你知道吗，在我们一起唱过一些歌之后，有一次大概是2016年或2017年左右。
And, you know, after we had done songs together, there was one time where it was probably 2016 or '17 or something.
我记得你当时在一个叫Enderscope Susan的录音棚里。
I remember when you were in a studio, like, Enderscope Susan.
记得我来的时候，她不记得了。
Remember I came she doesn't remember it.
但我记得我来了，和你聊了一次，我记得当时心想：哇。
But I remember I came in and I had this talk with you, and I remember being like, woah.
哇，西姆真是个复杂的人。
Wow, like, Sim's really like a complex person.
是好的那种复杂。
Like in a good way.
我当时就想，她真的太有深度了。
And I was like, she's she's she's so deep.
我们有一次谈话，我真的被震撼到了，心想：她真有深度。
And we had this conversation where I really I was just really left by being like, oh, she's deep.
然后我们就去做了别的事，没再想这件事。
And then we went and and thought nothing more of it.
后来当我们一起唱歌时，我记得离开时完全没有任何浪漫的感觉。
And then when we did our song together, I remember leaving not not feeling romantic at all.
我只是记得离开时在跟你聊天，你知道的，像她这样的流行巨星，是个大人物，人生经历丰富，之前人们总是为她设下重重壁垒，所以在我来之前，他们就说，哦，这件事是这样的，那件事是那样的，她可能不想做这个，等等，他们总是替别人说话。
I just remember leaving and I was talking you know, because when you're a pop star like she is and you're a huge entity and and and you've done so many things in your life, before like, people set up all these walls before, so it's like you get like like, before I came in, they were like, well, you know, this thing's like this and this is like this, and, like, she might not wanna do the and, like, stop and they they speak for people so much.
然后我记得我和导演都特别紧张，但第一秒，你就让所有人放松了下来。
And then I remember we were so me and the director were so nervous, and then the first second, you, like, disarmed everybody.
我记得走回来时，杰克——那个和我一起导演的人——说：‘这会不会太简单了？’
And I remember walking back and Jake was like he's like, the guy who directing with me, he's like, this is gonna be so easy?
什么？
What?
他们搞得好像她会是个特别难搞的人似的。
They they made it seem like she was this is gonna be this crazy thing.
但那一刻我感受到她的温暖，离开时我心想：哇，塞莉娜真是个酷女孩。
And the warmth I felt from her in that moment, I remember leaving being like, wow, Selena's such a cool girl.
她很
She's
真的很奇怪，塞莉娜，你完全不记得这件事了吗？
really And, Selena, you don't remember this at all?
不。
No.
不。
No.
她记得那个
She remembers the
另一个。
other one.
视频部分，但很有趣，因为我的记忆力确实不太好，但我只记得拍视频的场景。
The video part, but it was interesting because, yes, I don't have a very good memory, but I just remember the video shoot.
我没有感受到任何浪漫氛围，但玩得很开心。
I didn't see anything romantic nor really felt that, but I had a really good time.
那是我们多年一起做音乐、又分开之后，第一次真正有机会和他们一起放松。
And that was probably the first time after years of doing music together and not together, that was the first time I really got to hang out with them.
那很有趣。
And it was fun.
我过得很开心，就这样。
I had a good time and that was that.
然后事情的发展是，我一直很谨慎，因为我总想确保保护好自己。
And then how it kind of continued was I was always cautious because I always wanted to make sure that I did protect myself.
所以说实话，我很少和他说话。
So to be honest, I didn't talk to him very often.
我以为她讨厌他。
I thought she hated him.
真的吗？
Really?
我真的是这么想的。
I really did.
我就知道会这样。
I knew that was coming.
我真的是这么想的。
I really did.
我以为她不喜欢我，每次见到她，我都会想，她是不是不喜欢我？
I thought she didn't, like, I would see her and I and I would be like, does she not like me?
就像，我们根本没想太多。
Like, and I like, we weren't thinking about anything.
我当时想，哇，她真的很少和我说话。
I was like, wow, she really like didn't talk to me a lot.
我以为那是她很友善。
And I was like, I thought it was being nice.
我的朋友们会说，不是的，不是的。
And like, my friends would be like, no, no.
然后我还记得有一次，我的朋友们说，哦，对啊。
And then like there was another time I remember and my friends were like, oh, yes.
这有点奇怪。
It's kind of weird.
而且我
And I
我真的很抱歉。
was I'm like so sorry.
有过几次，我不知道，我只是觉得，没关系。
And there was like a few times and I didn't know and I was just like, you know, I was like, that's okay.
我以为我不主动是出于礼貌。
I thought I was being like polite by not.
她并没有真正参与。
She didn't really engage.
basically，我当时在做一些音乐，我们听了一些之前的样带，突然提到了《Single》这首歌，这很讽刺，因为这首歌和我当时的个人生活毫无关系，但Benny恰好做了这首歌。
Basically, we I was working on some music and we we went through some of the demos that we had and single soon came up, which is ironic because it was actually nowhere near where I was in my personal life, but Benny happened to do the song.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
我根本没做这个。
I didn't even do this.
这是我的一个手下做的。
It was like one of my guys who
来修这个的是他。
did this came to fix it.
我就过来帮忙了，因为我想他们的歌能更好，我觉得这样处理不太对，至少我想帮他们一下。
And I, like, came to help out because I was like, oh, I want their song to I was like, I don't like the way this let me just at least help them.
我说，我不确定这样行不行，因为我不知道赛琳娜是否喜欢我之类的。
I said, I was like, well, I'm not sure if it'll be okay because I don't know if Selena likes me or something.
然后，Interscope的总裁约翰·贾尼克说，那你干脆直接去录音室吧。
And then John Janik, the, you know, the president of Interscope, he was like, well, why don't you just go into the session?
她通常不让外人进录音室，但你就进去吧，如果觉得哪里不对劲，就试着缓和一下，跟她聊聊，进去帮忙。
She usually doesn't have people in, but just go in and like, if there is something that you feel is weird, like, try to just smooth it over and talk to her and get in.
我说，好吧，我去帮他们调和一下。
I said, okay, I'm gonna go smooth it over.
所以我进去了。
So I went in.
这太搞笑了。
It was so funny.
在我来之前，她的工程师告诉我，说她当时说，‘本尼要来了。’
Right before I came, her engineer told me, like, later that she was like, oh, Benny's coming.
她当时说
And she was like
这是我的理由。
And here's my reasoning.
我要为自己辩护。
I'm gonna defend myself.
当制作人看着我唱歌时，我会非常紧张。
I get very nervous around the producers watching me sing.
当然。
Of course.
这对我来说是一件非常私密的事。
It's just a very intimate thing for me.
我觉得我必须以某种方式发声或做些什么来让他们开心。
I feel like I need to sound a certain way or do whatever to make them happy.
当我只和我的工程师，也许再加上一个我信任的人一起录音时，我能从这段经历中获得更多的东西。
And when I get to record just me and my engineer and maybe someone I trust, I get more out of the experience.
所以我只是在想，好吧，也许他会待十分钟，我们随便聊几句。
So I just was thinking, Okay, well, maybe he'll stay for ten minutes and we'll just talk for a second.
十分钟变成了三十分钟，然后他去了另一个房间，我完成了录音，而他一直留在那里。
And ten minutes turned into like thirty, then he went to the other room, and I finished recording, and he stayed there.
然后，是的。
And then yeah.
这太长了。
This is too long.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
我喜欢这个。
I like it.
所以这里
So here
从我的角度来看，事情是这样的。
so from my perspective, here's what happened.
我进去后
I get in there
我心想
I'm like
然后
And
我心想，
I'm like,
我得把这事处理好。
I gotta smooth this.
我喜欢这种来回互动。
I love this back and forth.
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
我当时想，我和任何人都没有这种感觉。
I was like, I don't have this with anyone.
我觉得，我希望我们能轻松自在。
Like, I I was like, I want us to be chill.
显然，99%都是我脑子里的想法，然后我进来时，我们刚开始聊生活，她的A&R也在，我的一个朋友也在，我们就聊起了生活，接着谈到约会，我说，是啊，你知道的，去约了个会，诸如此类。
And obviously 99% of it was in my head and and I come in, we just started talking about life and her A and R is there, one of my friends is there, and we're just we're talking about life and we start talking about dating and I was like, yeah, you know, went out on this date, blah blah blah.
然后我和她聊天时说，天啊，我有好多优秀的单身男朋友。
And then I was talking to her and I said, oh my God, I have so many good single guy friends.
我经常在家里请他们吃饭。
I was like, have dinners at the house all the time.
你改天也来我家吧。
You should come over sometime.
我当时根本没想别的。
And I wasn't even thinking about anything.
我们聊起了理想的约会，还有各种事情。
And we're like talking about like our ideal date and like this and that.
我想确保她说对了那句话。
I wanted to make sure she did the line right.
所以我心想，哦，我要留在那儿，确保之后一切顺利。
So I was like, oh, I'll stay there to like make sure it's good after.
然后我就这么做了。
And then so I did.
我们离开了。
We left.
然后
And then
你在发短信。
You're texting.
嗯。
Yeah.
我没有她的手机号，因为她换了好几次号码。
I didn't have her cell phone number because I she changed her number a bunch.
所以我问了别人，说：嘿，把你的手机号给我。
So I I like asked someone, I said, hey, give me your cell phone number.
我想说点什么。
I wanna say like, you know, thing.
我写了，心想：天啊。
And I I wrote I was like, oh my god.
你当时就在那儿，而在我和她在一起的时候，我心里想，天哪。
You were and and and during that, I when I was with her, I was like, oh my god.
我当时想，她不仅真的很酷。
I was like, not only she's like really cool.
我当时想，我希望我也能像她那样，我想让她加入我们的朋友圈。
I was like, I want I was like, I wanna be like I was like, I want her to be like in our friend group.
我甚至都没法好好思考，我当时就想，我希望她能加入我们的朋友圈，我还想确保这件事处理妥当，让这首歌顺利进行，一切顺利。
And I couldn't even be thinking, I was like, I want her to be in our friend group and I wanna make sure this thing's smoothed out so the song figures out, goes well and everything.
所以我决定，干脆给她发条消息。
So I said, let me just text her.
谢谢你之类的。
Thank you or whatever.
我当时想，你知道的，你真是太好了什么的。
And I was like, you know, you were so sweet or something.
类似这样的话。
Something like that.
然后她回消息了，我想我们那天一直在发消息。
And then she writes back, I guess we were just we're texting throughout the day.
她告诉我，她回看了我们的聊天记录。
And she she told me she looked back at our message.
她说，不知怎么的，你开始发自拍了。
She said, somehow you started sending, like, selfies
哪里
where
你拍得超级差，简直是最糟糕的照片。
you looked really bad on perfect, like the worst ones
在你的副驾驶座上。
in your shotgun.
你开始这么做。
You started to do this.
是的。
Yes.
顺便说一句，任何理智的女生都不应该对一个自己喜欢的人做这种事。
Which by the way, no girls should really be in or anyone in their mind right mind to someone they would have a crush on do that.
但我们刚才在聊丑照，因为我一直说，我有时候拍的照片是最差的。
But we were talking about ugly photos, like, because I always say, I take the worst photos sometimes.
他跟我说：‘哦，你说了什么。’
And he's like, Oh, you said something.
于是我发给他我最糟糕的照片，比如生病躺在床上，还有那些奇怪的拍照场合。
And I sent him the worst pictures of me, like, since, like, in bed sick and then, you know, me at weird photoshoots.
现在回头看，我只是觉得这些照片太奇怪了。
And now looking back on it, I'm I'm just thinking that's these are so weird.
我不知道为什么
I don't know why
我发了那些照片。
I sent that.
是现在还是还没到？
Moment yet or not yet?
是的。
Yeah.
哦，你发了？
Oh, you did?
好的。
Okay.
那就是
That's what
我正想弄明白。
I was trying to figure out.
我完全不知道。
I had no idea.
所以我完全不知道。
So I had no idea.
不知怎么的，我们决定
And somehow we decide
等等。
So wait.
如果你喜欢本尼，为什么要做那件事？
Why did you do that if you liked Benny?
你为什么一直发
Why were you sending
嗯，因为我不知道会变成这样，也许我以为只是调情，不会有什么别的。
Well, because I didn't know that it was going to be like, maybe I thought it was just gonna be flirting and and not really anything else.
明白了。
Got it.
但我真的开始，我不知道，爱上
But I really started to to just, I don't know, fall for
了。
it.
所以我对这些一无所知。
So I didn't know any of this.
不。
No.
然后我们决定，或者说我忘了是怎么发生的，但我们说：好吧，一起出去玩吧。
And then we decide or like I forget how it happens, but we're like, yeah, let's hang out.
我当时想，我朋友明天要过生日。
And I was like, oh, my friend's having a birthday party tomorrow.
就说：一起来吧。
Was like, just just come along.
我当时只是想着朋友之间的事。
And I was like, just thinking friend stuff.
然后她来我这儿了，我想她以为派对会在我家举办，但在我心里，我只是觉得她会先过来，我们先喝一杯，然后再去那儿。
And then so she comes to mine and I guess she thought the party was gonna be at my house, but I was like, oh in my head, I was like, oh, she'll just come over and and we can just, like, grab a drink first and then go there.
就像，根本没多想。
Like but, like, not thinking anything of it.
我只是想，我们去我朋友的酒吧喝一杯吧。
I was like, we'll just, grab a drink at my friend's wine bar.
就在路上，然后我们再去那里。
It's on the way, and then we'll go there.
你在那儿，我们坐在一起，她说了一些话，比如：‘因为是约会，所以我穿了 blah blah blah。’
You were there, and and we were sitting together and she said something like, well, you know, because it's a date I wore blah blah blah.
我当时想，然后我说
And I was like and and I was like
没有。
No.
我说，如果这是约会，我肯定会穿得更讲究一点。
I said, if if this was a date, I definitely would have dressed like a nicer.
他只是看着我，我以为我们是在约会。
And he just kinda looked at me and I thought we were on a date.
我当时说：‘我们在约会？’
And I was like, we're on a date?
然后我们就去了，但根本没提这件事。
And then and then we went and then we didn't really talk about it.
等等。
So wait.
你以为谁以为是
You thought who thought it was
一个约会？
a date?
她以为是。
She thought it was.
哦。
Oh.
她以为那是一次约会。
She thought it was a date.
对不起，一个绅士请我喝饮料，我以为是
I'm sorry a nice man takes me out for a drink, I'm assuming it's
一个约会。
a date.
我不知道。
I didn't know.
但还没有人约过对方。
But no one had asked each other out yet.
没有。
No.
就像是，我们只是
It was like, let's
一起待着。
just hang out.
比如，我们去我朋友那儿，去一家泰国餐厅，去Jitlada，大家在一起闲逛，然后她突然就走了。
Like, and then we go to my friends, we go to this Thai restaurant, we go to Jitlada, and we're like hanging out and there's a bunch of people there, and then she all of a sudden like leaves.
她说：我得走了，明天早上要拍视频，得早点起。
And she was like, I gotta go to I have a video shoot really early in the morning.
我就说：好的。
And I was like, okay.
我当时想，但那对我来说根本不是约会，所以我就说，好吧，挺好的。
And I was like but I wasn't like because it wasn't a date to me or anything, so was like, okay, cool.
我和我的朋友们待在一起。
And I stayed with my friends and stuff.
后来她给我发了消息，我记得你说过，那是我很久以来最开心的一次经历。
And then she texted me after and I remember you being like, that was like one of the most fun times I've had in a really
很久了。
long time.
塞莉娜，所以从技术上讲，是你第一次正式约本尼出去的。
Selena, so you technically asked Benny out on the first official date.
是的，是她约的。
She did.
她确实做了所有这些……
She did like every
说说那种自信和气场吧，因为不，我觉得很多女性都在听，关于自信。
Walk through that confidence, that energy because No, I think was a lot so many ladies listen confidence.
这正是可怕的部分。
That's the scary part.
我想，正是在那时我意识到自己对他产生了某种感情。
I think that's when I recognized that I had some sort of feelings for him.
这里的关键在于，爱在真实中茁壮成长。
The key takeaway here is that love thrives in authenticity.
即使不完美地展现自己，也能促成深层次的连接。
Showing up even imperfectly allows deep connections to form.
这并不是要创造一个完美的故事。
It's not about creating the perfect story.
而是要珍惜真正重要的那些时刻。
It's about cherishing the moments that truly matter.
艾玛分享了最微小、最平凡的时刻如何成为深刻的导师。
Emma shares how the smallest, most ordinary moments can become profound teachers.
如何关注眼前正在发生的一切，从而揭示我们正在成为怎样的人、我们需要什么，以及什么即将改变。
How paying attention to what's unfolding right in front of us can reveal who we're becoming, what we need, and what's ready to change.
这提醒我们，成长不仅仅发生在重大的里程碑时刻。
It's a reminder that growth doesn't just happen in big milestones.
它发生在那些安静的转变和我们允许自己的真诚自我检视中。
It happens in the quiet shifts and honest check ins we allow ourselves.
我其实正想问你，因为我想让大家了解你现在的状况。
I was gonna ask you actually because I want everyone to get up to date with where you are now.
比如你的日常生活是什么样子？
Like what your day to day life look like?
你刚才说，我醒来、洗澡、去散步，那你现在日常生活究竟是什么样的？它由什么构成？你热爱并期待的是哪些事情？
You just said like, I wake up and I shower and I go on a walk like, what does your day to day life look like right now and what makes, what's it made of and what are the things that you love and look forward to?
我最近开始骑自行车了，是的，我在开货车之前就开始骑自行车了，但现在这尤其幸运，所以我也是因为这个原因骑自行车。
I recently started riding a bicycle and yes, I started riding a bicycle before my driving van but now it's particularly fortuitous, so I also ride a bicycle for that reason.
我以为这是主流新闻。
I thought that was mainstream news.
是的。
Yeah.
天啊。
Oh my god.
我一直在接电话，说上了BBC了。
I was getting phone calls, like, it's on the BBC.
上了国际全球新闻了。
It's on international worldwide news.
我当时想，我的天啊，太丢人了。
I was like, my shame.
到处都是。
It's it's everywhere.
我的意思是，说实话，我也不知道。
This is I mean, what I say is I don't know.
我觉得，有趣的是，最暖心的结果是收到了很多人的消息，说‘我也是这样’。
I think in a funny way, what the sweetest result of it was getting so many messages from being people being like, happen to me too.
我懂你。
I feel you.
这太糟糕了。
This is awful.
真糟透了，但某种程度上又挺好的，但是do
It sucks, Which was kind of nice in a way, but Do
需要搭车吗？
need a lift?
嗯。
Yeah.
当然。
Totally.
你
Do you
需要搭车吗？
need a lift?
其实是，是的。
It's like, actually, yes.
但我认为，再说一遍，这很有趣，因为我从拍电影时的情况转变过来——我不知道人们是否知道，但他们真的不会让你自己开车上班。
But I think, again, it's funny like I I went from when you work on movies, I don't know if people know this, but like they literally will not ensure you to drive yourself to work.
被问过无数次了。
Asked so many times.
你必须有人接送。
You have to be driven.
你必须有人接送。
You have to be driven.
这根本不是选择的问题。
It's, like, not a choice.
尤其是因为他们需要你准时到达，你知道的，精确到分钟，具体取决于他们当时的安排。
And especially because they need you there, you know, down to the minute, basically, depending on what they have going on.
所以我从以前只在周末或假期自己开车，变成了当学生后一直自己开车。
And so I went from basically only driving myself on weekends or during holiday to then when I became a student driving myself all the time.
是的，我显然没有那种经验和技能，但现在我有了，并且一直在用。
And, yeah, I did not have the experience or skills clearly, which I now will and and do.
但我觉得，这又是我经历的一次尴尬过渡，从一种极其结构化的生活，转变为一种我得自己去这个地方、做些我自十岁以来就没再做过的事情的生活。
But I think, again, this was one of these like awkward transitions I made from kind of living this like very, very structured life to living a life where I was like, okay, I guess I'm gonna get myself to this place and I'm gonna like do this thing that I've basically not done since I was 10 years old.
所以这是一段发现和旅程，确实让我感到谦卑，因为在电影片场，我能完成所有这些极其复杂的事情——特技、唱歌、跳舞，做这个、做那个，随便什么。
So it's been a discovery and a journey that's been, yeah, I guess humbling because on a movie set, I'm able to do all of these like extremely complex things, stunts, sing, dance, like do this thing, do that, whatever.
然后我就说：‘放心吧，伙计们，没问题。’
And I'm like, yep, don't worry about it guys.
别担心。
No worries.
我来搞定。
I've got you.
但回到家后，我就想：‘好吧，艾玛，你似乎连钥匙都记不住。’
And then I get home and I'm like, okay, Emma, you seem unable to remember keys.
你似乎连在限速30英里的路段保持30英里时速都做不到。
You seem unable to, like, keep yourself at 30 miles an hour in a in a in a 30 mile speed limit.
你似乎连一些非常基础的生活琐事都做不好。
Like, you you don't seem able to do some pretty, like, basic life things.
而且这确实有点这样。
And it it was definitely kind of yeah.
我有过一些日子，只想转身对人们说：我以前很擅长很多事情。
I had days where I just wanted to turn around to people and be like, I used to be good at things.
明白吗？
Okay?
我以前真的很擅长很多事情，我知道现在看起来不像，但我以前是可以正常做事的。
I used to be really good at things and I know it doesn't look like that right now but I used to, I can do things normally.
所以是的，这确实让人谦卑。
So yeah, it's been, it's been humbling.
但我感觉我们所有人都能感同身受。
I feel like all of us can relate to that though.
真的吗？
Really?
因为难道不是每个人都会忘带钥匙、钱包，不知道东西放哪儿吗？这些都很常见，顺便说一句，我搬去美国之前，差点因为扣分太多而被吊销驾照。
Because doesn't everyone forget their keys, their wallet, doesn't know where things are, like these are like serious, and by the way I was, I think I was three points away from losing my license before I moved to The States.
谢谢你分享这些，我非常感激。
Thank you for that confession, I appreciate that so much.
因为我来美国已经九年了，我觉得事情就是这么发生的，但后来所有的扣分都被清零了。
Because I was in The States for, I've been in The States now for nine years and I think it happened just, but then all the points get wiped off.
哇。
Wow.
我想我现在又回到了六分。
I think I'm now back to six points.
我一年中在伦敦待了两个月。
I spent two months in London a year.
好吧，这让我每次回去都觉得……
Okay, this makes me feel Every time I go back, I seem to
好很多了。
Very much better.
是啊。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
所以我向你坦白。
So I'm confessing to you.
好吧。
Okay.
但我并没有失去它。
But I haven't lost it.
很多人实际上主动来找我坦白，我觉得这非常动人，真的非常感激。
A lot of people, actually a lot of people have like taken it upon themselves to come and confess to me, which I found like very, like very endearing and like really, really appreciate it.
但不，我觉得，你知道，我最近意识到，我们大多数人其实都处于一种状态：我只是在努力弄清楚一切，尽力维持现状。
But no, I think, you know, I think something I've been realizing is we most of us live in a state of like, I'm just trying to kind of figure it out and keep it together.
我们之间的唯一区别在于，人们是否愿意坦诚面对这一点。
And the only thing that is different between us is people's willingness to be honest about that.
他们能多大程度上承认：我只是在手忙脚乱地试图把碎片拼凑起来，而不是说，哦，是的。
The degree to which they can admit to actually, I'm just, like, scrabbling around trying to keep the pieces together versus, oh, yeah.
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我知道一切都太棒了，一切都不可思议，我正经历着有史以来最好的一天，你呢？
I know everything's amazing and everything's incredible and I'm having the best day ever and aren't you?
而且，你知道，我真的很喜欢那些愿意坦诚说‘今天过得不太顺’的人。
And, you know, so I do love the people who who are just willing to be like, yeah, it's, it's not going so well today.
我觉得很棒。
I'm like, great.
太棒了。
Amazing.
真是个很好的起点。
What a good starting point.
就像，我不知道。
Like, I don't know.
失败就是一个起点。
Failure is a starting point.
我觉得，尝试做事真的非常有吸引力。
Feels like, I feel like attempting things is so compelling.
当然，成功很棒，但我特别欣赏那些说‘我在这方面很糟糕，但我还是要试试’的人。
And of course success is wonderful but I love to see people who are like, I'm really bad at this but I'm gonna try.
就像，我爱你，这对我来说就是一切。
Like I love you, that's everything to me.
而如今，这种想要尝试自己并不擅长的事情的意愿似乎变得越来越难了，比如因为会暴露自己，或者因为每个人都会看到，或者每个人都会听说。
And that seems to be becoming harder and harder now, Like that desire to attempt something that you
可能
might
不擅长某事就去尝试，是因为它会暴露你，或者每个人都会看到，或者每个人都会听说。
not be good at because it's exposed or because everyone will see it or because everyone will hear about it.
谈到尝试新事物，意味着你目前正在学习，正在成长。
Talking about attempting things, mean you're currently studying, You're learning.
是的，是的。
Yes, yes.
我想说两点：一方面，我一直以来都重视脆弱性和真实性，但某种程度上，我也被逼着去这么做，甚至可能我还没准备好；而且我开始得太早了，以至于我不得不在公众面前学习。
Well, two things I wanna say there is I think in a way I was sort of I mean, I'm someone who's always cared about vulnerability and authenticity, but I think I was also forced into it to a degree that that maybe even I wasn't ready for and that, like, I just started so young that, like, I had to learn in public.
我不得不在公众面前犯错，然后说：哦，好吧。
I had to make mistakes in public and say, oh, okay.
现在我学到了这些，我必须愿意回去承认：这里有一些漏洞，这是我现在知道的。
Now I've learned this, and I had to be willing to go back and be like, like, there were some gaps here, and here's what I know now.
我认为人们的意见，我同意你的看法。
And I think people's I agree with you.
我认为在公众面前学习并持续学习正变得越来越困难。
I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to learn in public and continuing to learn.
我的意思是，这就是我重返校园并继续这样做的原因之一，因为我希望确保自己能说出一些值得说的内容。
Mean, I think that's one of the reasons why I I have gone back to school and why I continue to do it is because I want to make sure that I have things to say that are worth saying.
我认为，只有当你偶尔花点时间去倾听一些与你不同的人的声音时，才能做到这一点，你知道的，不只是听我那美妙的嗓音。
And I think you can only do that if you take a minute sometimes and listen to some people who aren't you, you know, like not just the sound of my own my own wonderful voice.
所以，是的，这一直很棒。
So, yeah, it's been it's been great.
我认为我也需要，我想受到启发。
I think also I needed to I wanted to be inspired.
我觉得，围绕在我最喜欢的群体身边——那些仍然相信世界是可塑的、事物是可改变的、任何事情都可能实现的年轻人——这种能量至关重要。
I think being around my favorite piece has been being around young people who still believe that the world is malleable and things are changeable and that, like, anything can be done is such important energy.
目前有太多反乌托邦的虚构作品，充满黑暗色彩。
There's so much dystopian fiction at the moment and dystopian dark.
电影。
Movies.
实在太黑暗了。
It's It's so dark.
我只是想问，关于乌托邦的思考去哪儿了？
And I'm just like, what happened to thinking about the utopia?
关于规划最理想情景的想法，去哪儿了？
What happened to, like, planning for the best case scenario?
我们究竟是在哪里失去了愿景、激情、想象力和可能性？
Like, where where did we lose, yeah, vision, excitement, imagination, possibility?
所以我觉得，是的。
So I think it's been yeah.
和年轻人在一起真是太棒了，只是坐在那里听他们说话。
It's been wonderful to be around young people and just to sit there and listen
快点。
quickly.
是的。
Yeah.
你有没有过，我的意思是，你显然读了很多书。
Do you ever I mean, you clearly read so much.
为了能读书，你得把自己隔离开来吗？
Do you have to take yourself away to do it in order to be able to do it?
你得专门腾出时间吗？
Do you have to cordon off time?
你是怎么依然保持学习和研究的？
Like, how are you still managing to study and learn?
因为这对你来说似乎很重要。
Because that seems like it's important to you.
是的，你刚才说话让我想起了我的一位灵性导师，我的僧侣老师，他总是对我说：如果你想向前迈三步，必须先深入三步。
Yeah, you reminded me as you were talking of one of my spiritual teachers, my monk teacher who always said to me, if you wanna move three steps forward, you have to go three steps deep first.
哇哦。
Woah.
在我生活中发现的是，我总想向前迈四步，却还没真正深入四步。
And what I found after in my life is I'm trying to go four steps forward and I haven't yet gone four steps deep.
所以这几乎就像——嗯，可能这个比喻不太恰当，但你可以想想电影《The Substance》，不知道你有没有看过。
And so it's almost like, I mean, is probably a terrible analogy but maybe thinking of the movie, The Substance, I don't know if you watched it.
我没看过。
I didn't.
好吧，算了，这个比喻太糟糕了，我们删掉吧。
Okay fine, okay, terrible, let's remove
它。
it.
不，不，不。
No, no, no.
不，不，我们先别谈这个了。但关键是，每当你在没有学习、没有尝试、没有实践的情况下多迈出一步，其实都在削弱你前进的能力。
No, no, let's forget about But it's that idea of like every extra step you take when you haven't learned and you haven't experimented and you haven't attempted is taking away from your ability to move forward.
有时候我觉得，当我们感到停滞不前，或者觉得事情没有进展时，我们可能被提醒要暂停一下，深入一点，或者静下心来内省。因此，听你这么说，我深有共鸣，而我在这方面总是屡屡失败。
And sometimes I think when we feel stuck or when we think things are not moving or they're not progressing, we may be assigned to say, well pause and go deeper for a second or pause and go inward for a And so to me hearing that from you, find that and I definitely fail at this all the time.
我有太多次明明还没深入，却急于向前推进。
There are so many times I'm trying to push more forward than I've gone deep.
所以每当我意识到自己正一味地到处尝试，却什么都没成效时，这其实是宇宙和自我在告诉我：去读书吧，去学习吧。
And so whenever I notice there myself and I notice that I'm just kind of trying everything and nothing is working, it's actually just the universe and self saying to me, go read, go study.
因此，我不得不刻意腾出时间，去做我真正热爱的事——阅读和学习。但我发现，我不是那种每天读三十分钟就能满足的人，我需要一次连续读三四个小时，甚至更久。
And so I found that I've had to really carve out time to make time to do what I love which is to read and study but I found that I'm someone who doesn't love thirty minutes a day, I'm not that kind of a reader, I'm someone who needs to read for three or four hours if not more.
所以我发现，对我而言，安排一段深度沉浸的时间，比机械地每天读三四十分钟更重要——如果你能坚持那样的习惯，那当然很好，但对我无效，因为我有点极端，我需要整个周末都沉浸在阅读中，而不是非得每天读一点。
And so I found that carving out deep immersive time is more important to me than this kind of mechanical thirty, forty minutes a day which is great for you if that works for you as a habit, it doesn't for me because I'm a bit of an extremist and just need to spend a whole weekend reading as opposed to, you know, I don't need to read every day.
所以我会尽量每个月选一个周末，全身心投入一个我热爱的主题，我会报名课程、去上课、看网上的TED演讲，尽可能多地读书，用这种方式彻底沉浸其中。
So I'll try and, I try once a month on a weekend to just absorb into a subject that I love and I'll take a course, I'll go to a class, I'll watch a TED talk online, I'll read as many books as I can and I try and immerse myself that way.
你的学习方式是什么？
What's your learning style?
我和你一样，我经常向一位我非常尊重的人请教，并向他寻求关于自己的反馈。
I'm the same as you and actually someone who I really respect and ask for advice for often, and I ask for feedback on on myself.
他对我说：‘艾玛，如果你把想做的90%的事情，以一半的速度去做，你会获得多得多的收获，生活也会好很多。’
He said to me, Emma, I think if you did 90% of what you wanted to do at 50% of the speed, you would get so much more like, life would be so much better.
我当时想：哇。
And I was like, wow.
只做我想做的90%，但速度减半？
50% of the speed and only 90% of what I wanna do?
他回答说：‘说实话，我觉得这已经是最低要求了。’
And he was like, I think that's the minimum, to be honest.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时想：哇。
I was like, wow.
但我认为确实如此。
But I think it yeah.
你所说的引起了我的共鸣。
What you said resonates.
我认为我常常需要提醒自己，重点不在于快速到达某个地方。
I think I often have to remind myself that it's not about speedily getting somewhere.
这根本不是重点。
It's just not the point.
事情本应按照特定的时机发生。
Things are supposed to happen with a certain timing.
这里的关键启示是，生活的转变，即使是尴尬或具有挑战性的阶段，都是成长的机会。
The key takeaway here is that life's transitions, even the awkward or challenging ones, are opportunities to grow.
挣扎并不会削弱我们过去的成就，反而让我们更有人性。
Struggle doesn't diminish our past achievements, it humanizes us.
诚实地面对自己的现状，并将失败视为起点，能为真正的学习、真实性和韧性创造空间。
Being honest about where we are and embracing failure as a starting point creates space for real learning, authenticity, and resilience.
想在这个奉献季真正产生影响吗？
Want to make a real difference this giving season?
今年十二月，《有目的》节目参与了‘播客对抗贫困’活动，多个播客联手帮助卢旺达的三个村庄摆脱极端贫困。
This December On Purpose is part of Pods Fight Poverty, podcast teaming up to lift three villages in Rwanda out of extreme poverty.
我们通过‘直接捐赠’组织进行，该组织直接向家庭发放现金，让他们自行决定最需要的援助。
We're doing it through GiveDirectly, which sends cash straight to families so they can choose what they need most.
请访问 givedirectly.org/onpurpose 进行捐赠。
Donate at givedirectly.org onpurpose.
首次捐赠将获得匹配，使您的影响力翻倍。
First time gifts are matched, doubling your impact.
我们的目标是在年底之前筹集100万美元，足以帮助700个家庭摆脱贫困。
Our goal is $1,000,000 by year's end enough to lift 700 families out of poverty.
请访问 givedirectly.org/onpurpose 加入我们。
Join us at givedirectly.org onpurpose.
我是乔纳森·戈德斯坦，新一季《重型》节目中，我帮助一位百岁老人疗愈破碎的心。
I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of Heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart.
一位101岁的女性如何再次坠入爱河？
How can a 101 year old woman fall in love again?
我帮助一个14岁时犯下持械抢劫罪的男子赎罪。
And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old.
于是我用枪指着他说，这可不是开玩笑。
And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke.
他于是蹲下了。
And he got down.
我记得当时感到一阵涌动，心想，好吧。
And I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay.
这就是力量。
This is power.
还有我的老朋友格雷戈尔和他的兄弟，试图通过催眠来解决我的问题。
Plus my old friend, Gregor, and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism.
我们可以给你一种全新的状态，让你一直都很有魅力。
We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're, like, super charming all the time.
更能直视他人的眼睛。
Being more able to look people in the eye.
不要总是躲在麦克风后面。
Not always hide behind a microphone.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《重量级》。
Listen to heavyweight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
在本期《下一章》中，我，迪·迪·杰克斯，将与媒体巨头、慈善家和全球先锋人物奥普拉·温弗瑞面对面交谈。
On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, Dee Dee Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer.
我的人生虽然看似异常，但之所以可能，只因我顺从了那些召唤。
My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it is only been possible because I was obedient to the calls.
本期节目深入探讨了奥普拉如何将名气转化为使命，以及在众人注视下真正成长意味着什么。
This episode dives deep into how Oprah turned fame into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching.
我所做过的每一个决定，都源于静坐于灵性之中，向神询问：您希望我首先做什么？
Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first?
无论你是在重建、重塑，还是仅仅试图维持现状，这一期都会直接触动你。
Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you.
在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您收听播客的任何平台收听《下一章》。
Listen to the next chapter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
每周更新一集。
Episodes drop weekly.
嘿，你好。
Hey there.
我是杰西·米尔斯医生。
Doctor Jesse Mills here.
我是加州大学洛杉矶分校健康中心男性诊所的主任，我想向你们介绍我的新播客《邮局》。
I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health, and I wanna tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room.
我是乔丹，这个节目的制作人。
And I'm Jordan, the show's producer.
和很多男性一样，我已经很多年没去看医生了。
And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years.
我会提出我们可能应该问但没有问的问题。
I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking but aren't.
因为男性通常只有在脸部器官脱落或骨折时才会去看医生。
Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone.
取决于哪根骨头。
Depends which bone.
哇。
Wow.
确实如此。
That's true.
每周我们都会剖析男性健康的独特领域，涵盖睾酮、健身、饮食、生育以及卧室里发生的事情。
Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom.
你是说睡觉吗？
You mean sleep?
对。
Yeah.
差不多吧，乔丹。
Something like that, Jordan.
我们会用通俗易懂的语言讲解科学，为你提供真正关心的问题的切实答案。
We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.
无论你是27岁、97岁，还是介于两者之间，都会很有趣。
It's gonna be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.
男性健康不仅仅是关于六块腹肌和补品。
Men's Health is about more than six packs and supplements.
它关乎精力、自信和连接。
It's about energy, confidence, and connection.
我们不仅仅希望你活得更久。
We don't just want you to live longer.
我们希望你活得更好。
We want you to live better.
所以，请前往iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听最爱节目的任何平台，查看邮件室。
So check out the mail room on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Cardi B敞开心扉，讲述了她人生中经历的艰难阶段。
Cardi B opens up about the difficult chapters she has walked through in her life.
事业压力、关系困境，以及随之而来的孤独。
Career pressures, relationship struggles, and the loneliness that followed.
如果你曾经经历过一段沉重得难以迈步的时期，她的故事展示了责任感、反思和时间如何帮助你重建与成长。
If you've ever been in a season that felt heavy or impossible to move through, her story shows how accountability, reflection, and time can help you rebuild and grow.
作为如此自信、如此勇敢的人，能和我谈谈你的抑郁吗？你愿意如此坦诚地分享自己一年前深陷抑郁、感觉那是最糟糕的时刻，我真的很抱歉你经历了这些。
Talk to me about that depression for you as confident as you are, bold as you are to be so vulnerable and I'm so sorry you went through that, but to be so honest and open about the fact that a year ago you were in this dark depression and it seems like the worst it had ever been.
嗯。
Yeah.
是什么让你走到这一步的？
What got you there?
你为什么感到如此低落？
Why you feeling so low?
那是因为我的事业压力太大了。
It was just a lot of pressure from my career.
而且我也觉得我的婚姻在变质，感觉爱正在消逝。
And I also felt like my marriage, like I felt the love dying.
从我的角度，从我的角度，也从他的角度，我选择了孤独，因此感到非常孤单。
From my end, from from my end, from his end, I was very lonely because I chose to be lonely.
选择孤独。
Chose to be lonely.
我在想，你知道吗？
I was saying like, you know what?
我再也受不了了。
I can't go through this anymore.
我必须停止这一切。
I have to put a stop to it.
但当我宣布要停止时，你可以说你要停止，也许你可以一个月不和某人接触，但这并不是真正停止的时候。
But when I said I was gonna put a stop to it, because you could say you're gonna put a put a stop to it, and you could, you could go a month without being around somebody, it's not it's not until you it's not when you say so.
而是当你的心真正这么说的时候。
It's when your heart say so.
我不断告诉自己，我一个月内绝不联系这个人。
I kept telling myself I will not contact this person for a month.
我绝不会屈服。
I will not give in.
我不会轻易原谅这件事。
I will not forgive this easy.
我不会回去。
I will not go back.
我不会重蹈覆辙。
I will not go to the pattern.
我不会再经历这一切。
I will not go through it.
但我每天都哭。
But I was crying every day.
我每天都感到受伤。
I was hurt every day.
我独自一人住在洛杉矶的一座豪宅里。
I was out here in LA in a mansion by myself.
我每天都在想这件事。
I was thinking about it every single day.
当你的心还没有放下，你的心就没有放下。
And when your heart is not done, your heart is not done.
然后我告诉自己，我怀孕了。
Then I told myself I'm pregnant.
我要接受我自己的缺点，接受我带给这段婚姻的不足。
I'm going to accept I'm gonna accept the, my flaws, the flaws that I bring in this marriage.
我会为此道歉，并且努力改进。
I'm gonna apologize for it, and I'm gonna work on it.
当我承担责任时，你却利用我承担责任的机会，认为我知道她会回来，而不是我承担责任后你却趁机利用这一点，这真的摧毁了一切。
And when I take accountability and you take advantage of me taking accountability and you take that as a, see, I know she'd be back instead of me taking accountability and you taking advantage of that, it really just killed everything.
在这一切逐渐消亡的时候，我体内却孕育着一个生命。
And while it was dying, I had a human groin in me.
我不断想着，没有这个人，生活会是什么样子？
And just kept thinking like, it's like, what's life going to be without this person?
没有这个人，我该如何抚养我最后一个孩子？
What life going to be without raising my last child without this person?
没有了那个人，生活会变成什么样？连朋友都不是了？
What's life going to be with that person not being my friend anymore without nothing?
当你有这种想法时，你会感到悲伤。
When you have those type of thoughts, it will make you sad.
你会变得抑郁。
It will get you depressed.
你会迷失自己。
It will have you lost.
但我克服了这一切，我现在比以往任何时候都更强大。
But I overcame that and I am the strongest that, like, I have ever been.
我几乎在想，我什么时候曾经最强大过？
Like, I almost feel like when was I ever my strongest?
我觉得自己最强大的时候是22、23、24岁。
My the I felt my strongest when I was 22, 23, 24.
那时候我觉得自己最强盛，仿佛活在力量之中。
That's when I felt like my strongest, and I was, like, living in a power.
我现在就是这种感觉。
And that's how I feel right now.
我觉得自己活在一种力量之中。
Like, I feel like I live in a power.
花了好几个月，心才终于说：你该放下了，而不是我的嘴或我的大脑。
And it took months for the heart to say, you're done, instead of my mouth and my brain.
我的心必须得说：你该放下了。
My heart had to be like, you're done.
因为你可以嘴上说，也可以采取行动，但即使你采取了行动，如果你心里没放下，那就还没放下。
Because you could say it and you could take actions, but even if you take actions, if you're not done, you're not done.
那时候我经常问，比如我正在和夏奇拉合作，我就问：你是怎么熬过来的？
Like, I kept asking, like, around that time, I was working with Shakira, and I was like, how the fuck did you overcame this?
你是怎么熬过来的？
Like, how did you overcame this?
这种事情总会发生的。
And it's like, it's going to happen.
而且感觉这永远不会发生。
And it's like, it will never happen.
但它真的发生了。
And it happened.
经历了一些哭泣。
It took some crying.
经历了一些思考，可怕的思考。
It took some thoughts, scary thoughts.
但我在这里，亲爱的。
But I'm here, honey.
嗯。
Yeah.
我在这里，这是我人生中最强大的时刻，我只是
I'm I'm here and I'm the strongest I've been and I'm just
我很喜欢听这些。
I love hearing that.
但那很难。
But it was hard.
我能看出来，我跟你说话的时候就能感觉到。
I can tell, I could tell, I could see it as I'm speaking to you.
这并不容易。
It's not easy.
我认为，我们每个人生命中的那些时刻都是最艰难的时刻。
And I think those moments in all of our lives are the most difficult moments.
那时你是如何照顾自己心理健康的？
What did you do for your mental health at that time?
你做了什么？
What did you do?
你采取了哪些行动？
What actions did you take?
为了保持自我稳定，并重新变得现在这么坚强，你必须做些什么？
What did you have to do to keep yourself together and come back the strongest you are right now?
我觉得有很多听者可能也经历过类似的事情，他们感到破碎、受伤、迷失和困惑。
I think there are so many people who are listening who have probably been through similar things who feel broken, feel hurt, lost and confused.
对你来说，什么方法帮助你重新变得比以往更强大？
What worked for you that helped you come back the strongest you've ever been?
我不确定是不是时间的作用，因为我差不多什么都试过了。
I don't know if it was just time because I kinda did a little bit of everything.
比如，我确实接受了心理治疗。
Like I did do therapy.
我看过心理医生。
I did saw a therapist.
顺便说一句，她真的很棒。
She's really good, by the way.
那是通过Zoom进行的，我当时心里想：我简直不敢相信，我竟然对着一个完全陌生的人，连续三个小时倾诉我的感受、想法和私密事务。
It was like on Zoom, and it was like, I was telling myself, it's like, I can't believe I'm telling a whole stranger my feelings, my thoughts, my personal business for three fucking hours straight.
我只是觉得，
I was just like,
我到底在干什么？
what the fuck am I doing?
这感觉太奇怪了。
That just feels so weird.
我当时就在那里。
I was in there.
我做了几次治疗。
I did therapy for I did a couple of sessions.
他们什么都没给我。
They ain't gave me no nothing.
整个春天和夏天我都在录音。
I was all spring, all summer recording.
这还不够。
It just wasn't enough.
我只是觉得我必须让它自己消亡。
I just felt like I just had to let it die on its own.
让事情自然消亡。
Let things die on its own.
糟糕的是，我不但要面对这个问题，这还关乎我的个人生活。
And the bad thing about it is that it's not only am I dealing with that, that's my personal life.
我还要应对粉丝给我的压力，因为他们想要一张专辑。
I was also dealing with fans putting pressure on me because they you know, they want an album.
他们想要我的作品。
They want products for me.
有些不喜欢我的人贬低我，同时还有同行试图跟我制造矛盾。
I had people that don't like me talking down on me, and then I had peers trying to start problems with me.
而这一切都发生在我在家经历精神崩溃的时候。
And all of that while I was going through a mental breakdown at home.
所以这一切实在太多了。
So it was just a lot.
我当时就想，我得想办法解决它。
It was like, I'm trying to work it.
我试着靠睡觉来缓解。
I'm trying to sleep it.
在我生下女儿、我的小公主后，我就想：先从工作中休息一下。
After I gave birth to my daughter, my baby girl, I was just like, Take a break from work.
每个周末我都和朋友们出去玩。
And I was just going out every weekend with my friends.
和别人交谈，向他们透露一点点真实的自己，这让我感到害怕。
It was scary talking to somebody else and giving them a little piece of me.
不只是掏心掏肺，只是一点点真实的自己。
Not just out my heart, just a little piece of me.
但我克服了这一点。
And, but I overcame that.
所以我觉得自己变得更好了一点，就像重新启动了一样。
And I just, that's why I feel like I just became a little bit more better, like just resetting.
是的，很好的提醒：时间才是最终的重启，时间确实具有疗愈的力量，就像那句老话所说，时间能治愈一切伤痛。
Yeah, good reminder it's that time is the ultimate reset and time does have a healing power that we, you know, the cliche of time heals all wounds.
但这是事实。
But it's the truth.
没错，这确实是个老生常谈，但其中蕴含着真理。
But it's true, yeah, it's a cliche because there's truth in Yeah.
这其中有一些现实：时间、距离，以及足够的耐心。
There's some reality in it that time and distance and being patient enough.
我最近在辅导一位客户，她刚经历分手。在第一个月，她每天都会告诉我，她无法停止想念那个甩了她的男人。
I was working with a client recently who was going through a breakup and when we would speak in the first month, she would tell me every single day that she couldn't stop thinking about the guy she was breaking up with, that broke up with her.
到了第二个月，她每两天会提一次。
And then the second month she'd tell me every other day.
到了第三个月，她每周只会说一次。
And then the third month she'd tell me once a week.
嗯。
Yeah.
到了第四个月，她每个月才提一次。我当时就想，你可能没注意到，但我看得出来，随着时间推移，这件事对你的影响越来越小。但当你身在其中时，总觉得自己还陷在原地。
And then the fourth month she was just telling me once a month and I was like, you don't see it but I see that it's affecting you less and less and less as time goes on but when it's you, you feel like you're just still stuck there.
所以这真是一个很好的提醒，时间才是最终的重启，而时间确实会
And so it's such a great reminder that time is the ultimate reset and time And does
仅仅因为时间能治愈，不代表你就不该去寻求帮助，因为治疗对我并没有太大帮助。
just because time heal, like in the meantime, don't think that like you shouldn't like try to get help because it's like therapy didn't really help me like that.
对你没用吗？
That didn't work for you?
没那么有效。
Not as much.
也许是因为我还没走到能真正获得帮助的那一步。
Well, maybe because I didn't get to the part of where you get the help.
我的意思是，我确实做了六次咨询。
I mean, I did do this like six sessions.
我不知道具体多久。
I don't know how long.
当我给女孩们建议时，我常常会说：姐妹，振作起来。
Like, sometimes when I give advice to girls, I be like, bitch, boss up.
振作起来。
Boss up.
去工作。
Go to work.
打扮漂亮。
Get pretty.
但即使我在做这些的时候，心里还是疼。
But even when I was doing that, I had like a pain in my heart.
有时候我和朋友出去玩，玩得很开心，但总是在凌晨四点半左右。
And sometimes when I was going out with my friends and I was having a good time, it will always be like around 04:30 a.
早上。
M.
该回家了，我喝醉了，心里想着：我一个人。
When it's time to go home and I'm drunk and I'm thinking to myself, I am alone.
没人可以倾诉，感觉特别奇怪，特别孤单，尤其是当你习惯了有人陪伴的时候。
I don't have nobody to talk to and it feels really weird and it feels very lonely especially when you're used to that.
然而，不要回避这一点。
However, don't don't avoid that.
别去回避，但时间会治愈一切。
Don't like don't avoid that but it will be time that will heal it.
时间会治愈一切。
It will be time.
时间会治愈一切。
Time just heals everything.
上周你又提到，当你发布新音乐时，那是你一年来感觉最低落的时候。
When you said again last week, you were saying when you put new music out, it was kind of the lowest you'd felt in another year.
对你来说，最难接受这种批评的是什么？
What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism?
因为就像你说的，你反应很快，有回应，你生活在一个总有人攻击你的环境里，为什么发布你热爱的作品会这么难？
Because like you said, you're quick with it, you've got responses, you've lived in a place where you had people coming at you, why is it so hard to put out something you love?
看起来你真的把心都投入到了你的作品中。
It seems like you really put your heart into your work.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以当你发布这些作品时，是不是因为你在其中倾注了如此多的心血和灵魂，所以批评才最伤人？
And so when you put that out, is that why the criticism hurts the most because you put so much heart and soul into your work?
是的，因为我投入了很多。
Yes, because I put like a lot.
我总是这样，我不懒，我不是那种懒惰的人。
I always, I don't like what, like I'm not a lazy person.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我明白自己的不足。
And I do understand my flaws.
但其实也不是我的缺点，因为很多人会评论我的口音。
Well, it's not really my flaws because a lot of people will say something about my accent.
对吧？
Right?
但很有趣的是，对一些人来说，我的口音可能是我的缺点，但同时也是我的超能力，让我与众不同。
But it's funny because my accent, to some people, might be my flaw, but it's also my superpower and what makes me unique.
有些人说我的口音是西班牙口音，但我其实并没有西班牙口音。
Some people will say that I have a Spanish a Spanish accent, but I really don't really have a Spanish accent.
我有一个非常独特的口音。
I have a very unique accent.
我说话的方式很特别。
I talk very unique.
当你努力去完善你的口音、你的节奏，以及一切的时候。
When you try your best to, like, perfect your accent, perfect your flows, perfect everything.
我总是尽力完善我当下正在做的每一件事。
I always try to perfect everything that I'm doing at the time.
我总是努力把它做到完美。
I always try to perfect it.
比如，即使我以前当过脱衣舞娘，我想说，好吧。
Like, even when I was a stripper, I guess, like, okay.
我是个脱衣舞者，但我要成为这里最棒的钢管舞者。
I'm a stripper, but I'm a be the best pole dancer in here.
我拼命努力，跪到膝盖都疼，每天练习，直到成为最棒的。
And I'm a bust my ass, bust my knees, practice every day until I could be the best at it.
音乐也是同样的道理。
That's the same with music.
我会把它做到完美。
I'm gonna perfect it.
我的营销也是同样的道理。
That's the same with my marketing.
我会把它做到完美。
I'm gonna perfect it.
我的事业也是同样的道理。
That's the same with my business.
我会把它做到完美。
I'm gonna perfect it.
我喜欢把事情做到完美。
I like to perfect things.
如果事情不是最好的，如果我不是最出色的，我至少可以说我努力过，拼尽全力，而且我没有让自己轻松过关。
And if it's not the best things, if I'm not the best at it, I could say that I tried to be and I worked my ass off to be and I didn't make it easy for myself.
所以当别人把这事儿直接甩到你脸上，还在此基础上编造出其他故事时，我觉得这太刻薄了。
So when people just throw it in your face and then make other narratives on top of it with that, it's like, that is so mean.
而且关于你，还有各种不同的说法。
And there's also like different narratives of you.
就像说，哇，你根本一点都不了解我。
Like it's like, wow, you don't even know me.
你根本都不了解我，却因为一首歌就编出这么多故事和情节。
You don't even know me and you making all these stories, scenarios, all this, this over one song.
这里的关键是，时间是最好的疗愈者之一。
The key takeaway here is that time is one of the greatest healers.
成长往往源于不适。
Growth often comes through discomfort.
尽管治疗和外部支持确实有帮助，但最终的重启在于耐心、自我觉察和坚持。
And while therapy and external support absolutely help, the ultimate reset is patience, self awareness, and persistence.
如果我们允许的话，艰难的章节可能会带来深刻的转变。
Difficult chapters can lead to profound transformation if we let them.
接下来，麦当娜讨论了灵性在应对人生起伏中的作用。
Next up, Madonna discusses the role of spirituality in navigating life's ups and downs.
她的灵性实践一直是她生命中的指引力量，帮助她保持动力、觉察和有意识。
Her spiritual practice has been a guiding force throughout her life, helping her stay driven, aware, and intentional.
她强调了反思和为自己留出空间的重要性，尤其是在一个日益被工作和数字干扰主导的世界中。
She emphasizes the importance of reflection and taking space for yourself, especially in a world increasingly dominated by work and digital distractions.
你今天来这里的目标是什么？
What's your intention for being here today?
为什么是现在？
Why now?
为什么是今天？
Why today?
过去，我通常接受采访是为了宣传我的作品，无论是音乐、巡演还是电影。
Well, in the past, I've usually done interviews to promote my work, whether that's music or a tour or film.
但今天，我想谈谈我的精神生活，以及我过去二十八年来所走的精神之路。
But today, I would like to talk about my spiritual life and the spiritual path that I've been on for over twenty eight years.
这些智慧帮助我应对了人生的起起落落，姑且这么说吧。
This wisdom has helped me navigate the ups and downs of life, for lack of a better expression.
多年来，人们经常问我。
People ask me a lot through the years.
比如，你为什么还能保持清醒？
Like, what is the reason you're still sane?
你为什么能一直坚持下去？
What is the reason you keep going?
你为什么没有像其他人那样被淘汰？
Why have you not fallen by the wayside like other people?
当然，我很多同行已经不在了，你会说关键是什么？
Definitely, a lot of my peers who who are no longer with us, like, what would you say is the key?
我会说，那就是我的精神生活。
And I would say that is my spiritual life.
如果我没有精神生活，我绝对不可能成为今天的我，也不可能身处今日之地。
I absolutely would not be where I am or who I am if I did not have that.
正如我所说，它极大地帮助我应对了人生的起起落落。
It's helped me enormously, as I said, navigate the ups and downs of life.
所以，我感觉我想与大家分享这一点。
So I I feel like I would like to share that with people.
因此，这正是我来这里的目的——我不是来推销任何产品，也不希望任何人购买任何东西。
So that's really the point of I'm I'm not here to promote a product or I don't want anyone to buy anything.
我只是想与大家分享一些几乎拯救了我生命的东西。
I just, I wanna share something with with people that has pretty much saved my life.
这听起来可能很夸张，但这是真的。
That sounds dramatic, but it's true.
是的。
Yeah.
这似乎对你来说意义非凡，是你生活中深刻的一部分，而我常常觉得你在其他场合无法分享这些。
It seems like it's something that's extremely meaningful to you and a deep part of your life that often I feel you don't get to share in other spaces.
所以尽管这已经成为你生活近三十年的一部分，也许你以前从未分享过其中的某些方面。
So even though it's been a part of your life for nearly three decades, maybe you haven't shared parts of it before.
如果你没有找到它，你的生活会是什么样子？
What would your life look like if you didn't find it?
我会相信物质世界就是一切。
I would believe that the physical world is all there is.
我会相信所有的幻象。
I would believe all the illusions.
那将会是我的毁灭。
And that would be my downfall.
而这也是大多数人的毁灭。
And that is most people's downfall.
对你来说，灵性意味着什么？
What does spirituality mean to you?
因为我觉得这个词对很多人来说意味着太多东西了，嗯，
Because I think that word itself means so many things to so many Well,
是的。
yes.
我的意思是，灵性生活或灵性道路可能包含很多种含义。
I mean, a spiritual life or a spiritual path could could could be mean a lot of things.
我知道你有一条灵性道路，而对我来说，这并不是关于谁的更好，或者说是任何对你有效的都行。
I know that you have a spiritual path, and and for me, it's not really about, like, whose is the best or, you know, it's whatever works for you.
我研究卡巴拉已经二十九年了，从1996年开始。
I've been studying Kabbalah for twenty nine years, so since 1996.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
这已经很久了。
It's a long time.
这已经很长了。
It's a long time.
我不是一个轻浮的人。
And I'm not a frivolous person.
我无法容忍愚昧之人。
I don't suffer fools gladly.
如果我觉得某件事是虚假的、腐败的或不真实的，我就不会待这么长时间。
I if something if I think there's something false about it or corrupt or not authentic, I wouldn't have stuck around for so long.
这么多年来，我一直跟着同一位老师学习。
I I've had the same teacher for all this time.
我觉得我有责任与他人分享，因为我觉得人们需要指导。
I feel like almost like it's my responsibility to share with people because I feel like I feel like people need guidance.
人们需要觉醒。
People need enlightenment.
对我来说，灵性生活就是拥有内在的生命，因为你知道，我肯定知道。
And for me, a spiritual life is having an internal life because you know this, I'm sure.
你知道吗，如果我们陷入这样一种信念体系，认为我们的价值取决于别人是否爱我们、他人的认可、你拥有多少钱、有多少奢华的衣橱，或者你在Instagram上有多少粉丝。
You know, if we get caught up in the belief system that our value in the world is based on people loving us or other people's approval or how much money you have or how many fabulous outfits you have or how many followers you have on Instagram.
这些东西并不能带给我们幸福。
Those things don't make us happy.
这些东西也无法带给我们内心的平静。
Those things don't bring us peace.
因此，拥有内在的生活，学会向内观照，并培养某种实践——无论它是什么形式，你的祈祷、你的冥想——每天抽出时间停下来反思、沉思，因为我们生活在一个繁忙而混乱的世界。
So having an internal life and being able to look internally and having some kind of practice, whatever that might look like, your prayer, your meditations, that those the time you take out of every day to stop and take stock, like contemplate, we live in a very busy chaotic world.
充满噪音，充满干扰。
Lots of noise, lots of distraction.
我的意思是，你听过多少次人们说，哦，你知道，社交媒体，还有，人们走路时根本离不开音乐。
I mean, how many times have you heard people say, oh, you know, social media and, like, all the you know, people can't walk down the street without listening to music.
每个人都需要时刻被视觉刺激着。
Everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time.
根本没有任何平静可言。
Like, there's no peace.
没有宁静。
There's no quiet.
我们不习惯与自己安静相处，不愿向内审视，也不愿问自己：我为什么在这里？
We're we're not comfortable being quiet with ourselves and looking inward and asking ourselves, why am I here?
我在做什么？
What am I doing?
或者我此刻做出的某个具体选择的意图是什么？
Or what is my intention in a specific choice I'm making right now?
无论是关于我的工作，还是我养育孩子的方式，我所做出的关于一切的决定，
Whether it's about my work or the way I'm raising my children, decisions that I make about everything,
真的
really
是的。
Yeah.
我必须问自己。
I have to ask myself.
如果你没有精神生活，你就永远不会停下来问任何问题。
And if you don't have a spiritual life, you're never gonna stop and ask any questions.
你只会一味地向前冲过人生。
You're just gonna plow through life.
而且你会把发生在你身上的每一件事都看作是随机事件。
And if you just and and and you're gonna see everything that happens to you as just a random event.
我不相信任何事情是随机的。
And I don't believe that anything is random.
我认为发生在我们身上的每一件事都是注定要发生的，为了给我们某种教训。
I think everything that happens to us is meant to happen to us, to teach us some kind of a lesson.
但问题是，你有足够的觉察吗？
But, you know, the question is, are you aware enough?
你足够清醒吗？
Are you awake enough?
你足够感兴趣去发现那个原因吗？
Are you interested enough to find out what that reason is?
比如，为什么这件事会发生在我的身上？
Like, why did this happen to me?
我的教训是什么？
What is my lesson?
我不希望过着一种把所有发生在自己身上的事都看作随机事件的生活，但也不想活成一个受害者。
I don't wanna go through life seeing everything that happens to me as random, but I also don't wanna go through life as a victim.
我的人生一直充满挑战，很容易陷入自怜的陷阱，觉得自己是受害者，或者想：为什么这种事情不发生在别人身上？
And I've had a pretty challenging life, and it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or, like, being a victim or, you know, why why isn't this happening to other people?
为什么偏偏是我？
Why is it happening to me?
为什么我没有那个人拥有的东西？
Why don't I have what that person has?
我相信你一定听过这句话：比较是快乐的杀手。
I'm sure you know the expression comparison is the killer of joy.
所以，你得跳出这个游戏，你得拥有精神生活。
So, you know, it's like, you gotta to get out of that game, you have to have a spiritual life.
你只能这样。
You just have to.
你让我想起了一个我偶然发现的美丽概念，叫做第三空间理论。
You're reminding me of something beautiful that I came across called the third space theory.
你听说过吗？
Have you heard of it?
嗯嗯。
Mm-mm.
这个观点是，大约五十年前，人类拥有三个空间。
It's this idea that as humans around fifty years ago, we had three spaces.
我们有工作、有家，然后还有一个庙宇、会堂、教堂、社区中心，或者说是第三空间。
So we had work, we had home and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church, a community center or a third space.
这个第三空间的意义，正如你所说的，是一个可以回望工作和家庭、反思生活、审视自我、内省的地方。
And the point of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying, was a place that you could look back at work and home and you could reflect on your life, you could take stock, you could introspect.
但随着时间推移，我们失去了这个第三空间。
But as time's gone on, what's happened is we lost that third space.
我们不再去寺庙、教堂、社区中心，无论它是什么
We stopped going to temple, church, community, whatever it
一个自我反思的地方。
may A place of self reflection.
一个自我反思的地方。
A place of self reflection.
我们最终在家工作，而疫情之后，我们连工作场所也失去了。
And we ended up with working at home and then after the pandemic, we lost work.
所以我们现在只在一个空间里，再也没有了能让我们从不同角度审视自己的地方，这正是我想你说的。
And so now we're in one space and we don't have a different vantage point to where we are anymore, which is what I think you're saying.
再往前退一步，对我来说就像监狱。
Go back on even one more step that to me is like a prison.
如果你剥离了精神生活、精神实践，再去掉工作场所，你就只剩下家；而如果再从家里剥离，你就只能盯着手机。
Get if you get if you remove the spiritual life, spiritual practice, you remove the workplace, then you're you're in the home, and then removed once more from home is you're looking at your phone.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这甚至让你离开了家。
Which is even takes you out of home.
这是个很好的观点，没错。
It's a great point, yeah.
所以，你到底在哪里？
So, like, where are you?
你哪儿都不在。
You're nowhere.
我们生活在虚拟世界中。
We're living in the virtual world.
没错。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
我们生活在虚拟世界里，甚至不是在物质世界中，我们只是
We're living in the virtual world, not even in the material world, we're just
是的。
Yes.
但虚拟世界本身并不是一个糟糕的世界，但如果你没有意识，那么生活真的毫无意义。
But a virtual and a virtual world is not a bad world but if you don't have consciousness there's really no point to living.
是的。
Yeah.
确实，这很有趣，因为我觉得每个人都能体会到，我们需要物理空间来有时促使我们进行内在的思考。
It's, yeah, so it's interesting to think about that because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea that if we all had, we need physical spaces to sometimes make us do internal things.
是的，某种仪式性行为必须发生。
Yes, mean some kind of ritualistic behavior has to happen.
你的仪式是什么？
What have been your rituals?
我很好奇，我想知道哪些精神实践和仪式一直支持着你，成为你旅程的象征，让你在你所说的那些几乎想要放弃、事情出错的时刻依然坚持下去？
I'm intrigued, I'm curious, what are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been so supportive and emblematic of your journey that have kept you going at the times as you said, there were so many times you could give up or things could go wrong or you kept pushing and they kept you locked.
它们是什么？
What were they?
它们是什么？
What are they?
其中一件非常重要的事是学习。
Well, one really important thing is studying.
每周都抽出时间坐下来学习。
Making time every week to sit down and study.
我的意思是，你可以研究《圣经》，也可以研究卡里尔·纪伯伦的诗歌，或者研究《吠陀经》，你知道的。
I mean, you can study the Bible, you can study the poetry of Kahlil Gibran, or you can study the Vedas, you you know.
你确实这么做了，对吧？
And you did that, right?
你实际上自己研究了不同的传统。
You actually studied different traditions on your own.
说实话，在我发现卡巴拉之前，我一直在寻找答案。
I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbalah, I I was looking for answers.
而且
And
你认为为什么会这样？
Why do you think that was?
你为什么在寻找答案？
Why were you looking for answers?
因为我拥有了人们认为能带来幸福的一切。
Because I had everything that people would assume would give you happiness.
我有成功的职业。
I had successful career.
我有名声、财富、物质上的东西、身体上的享受，但我并不快乐。
I had fame, fortune, monetary things, physical things, but I wasn't happy.
于是我自然地去寻找，当我还是个舞者的时候，我有个室友。
And I naturally sought out well, when I was a dancer, I had a roommate.
她是个佛教徒。
She was a Buddhist.
她每天都会起床诵经。
And she would get up and chant every day.
所以我对这一点非常感兴趣。
And so I was very intrigued by that.
好像没什么能让她烦恼。
Like, nothing bothered her.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
每件事都会让我烦恼。
Everything bothers me.
每件事都会让我烦恼。
Everything bothers me.
你知道，我是狮子座。
I'm, you know, I'm a Leo.
我是意大利人。
I'm I'm Italian.
我非常富有戏剧性。
I'm very dramatic.
我不会说她一直都很平静，但我被她的自信和那种一切发生皆有原因的笃定深深打动了。
I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness that everything was happening for a reason.
她从不会为事情生气。
She never got upset about things.
这发生在我职业生涯初期，那时我住在纽约，身无分文，经历了很多疯狂的事。
And this is in the beginning of my career when I was living in New York and I was broke and a lot of crazy things happened to me.
都是些真正可怕、创伤性的事情。
It's really scary, traumatic things.
我总是问她，她叫玛丽·安，我总问：你为什么从来不会生气呢？
And I would always ask her, her name is Mary Anne, I would always say, what like, why are you, like, never upset?
所以我把这归因于她的精神生活，但那并没有触动我。
So I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't speak to me.
后来，我开始练习瑜伽，阿斯汤加瑜伽。
And then later on, I started practicing yoga, Ashtanga yoga.
我的老师埃迪·斯特恩，他现在仍然有
And my teacher, Eddie Stern, he still has a
爱Eddie。
Love Eddie.
他很棒。
He's great.
你认识Eddie吗？
You know Eddie?
嗯。
Yeah.
我也是。
Me too.
他太棒了。
He's amazing.
我曾经深深沉迷于并热衷于比较第一系列、第二系列、第三系列。
I got quite caught up in and competitive about, like, first series, second series, third series.
但我注意到，很多来他课堂、他工作室的人，甚至都不做体式。
But one thing I noticed is that a lot of people would come into his practice, his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do the poses.
他们只是去坐在伽内什神像前，点蜡烛或祈祷。
They would just go and sit in front of the statue of Ganesh or light candles or prayer.
我意识到了，而爱迪也向我指出了这一点，因为有时我会受伤。
And I realized and Eddie pointed it out to me because sometimes I would have injuries.
我会旅行，无法练习瑜伽。
I would or I would be traveling and I couldn't practice yoga.
他会说，你看。
And he'd say, look.
你在呼吸吗？
Are you breathing?
我会说，是的。
And I'd say, yes.
他说，你这就是在练习瑜伽。
And he said, you're practicing yoga.
于是我意识到，我太过于执着于体式的物理形式了。
So I realized that I was too still too caught up in the physical poses.
他却说，不是的。
And he's like, no.
你不明白。
You don't understand.
你错过了重点。
You're missing the whole point.
体式只是你用来呼吸、安抚神经系统、并回归内心的一种方式。
The poses are just something that you do to to breathe through, to calm your nervous system down, and to bring you back to your center.
这深深触动了我。
And that really spoke to me.
有一个大大的‘不’字。
There was a big no.
瑜伽馆的墙上挂着一幅画，上面写着‘欲望与超脱’。
It was a painting on the wall of the yoga studio that says desire and detachment.
我问：‘这是什么意思？’
And I said, what does that mean?
他说，当然，我们都想要生活中所有美好的事物。
And he said, well, of course, we want we want all the beautiful things in life.
我们想要所有的快乐。
We want all the pleasures.
我们想要所有的幸福。
We want all the happiness.
我们想要一切，我们都想要。
We want every we want it all.
这没什么错，但你不能对它们执着。
There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't be attached to it.
因为如果你执着于它们，而你又得不到，那会发生什么？
Because then if you're attached to it and you don't have it, what's going to happen to you?
这里的要点是，通过灵性、反思或正念练习培养内在生活，能让我们在生活的混乱中保持安定。
The key takeaway here is that cultivating an internal life through spirituality, reflection or mindful practice anchors us amidst life's chaos.
将我们的经历理解为教训而非随机事件，能带来成长、意义和韧性。
Understanding our experiences as lessons rather than random events allows growth, purpose, and resilience.
医生。
Doctor.
奥纳尔精湛地探讨了自恋与关系的动态，揭示了我们的互动常常反映内心更深层的模式。
Orner masterfully explores the dynamics of narcissism and relationships, showing how our interactions often reflect deeper patterns within ourselves.
她提醒我们超越表面的标签，理解我们在关系中行为和选择背后的真实动因。
She reminds us to look beyond surface labels and understand the real drivers of our behavior and choices in relationships.
每个人都觉得自己曾经约会过一个自恋者。
Everyone feels like they've dated a narcissist.
他们说得对吗？
Accurate are they?
100%准确，因为我们每个人内心都有一些自恋倾向的部分，这些部分是为了保护我们的自我感。
A 100% accurate because we all have parts of ourselves that are narcissistically oriented, meaning they are to protect our sense of self.
有些人则走向极端，他们深受创伤，不得不投入大量精力保护自己，绕开自己的 ego。
Some people move more to the extreme and they're really like deeply wounded and and have to spend a lot of energy protecting themselves and working around their ego.
但大多数人在某些情境下会被激发出更自恋的行为，而当环境给予其他条件时，我们也能变得更加开放，对世界产生兴趣。
But most of us in certain situations were provoked to behave in more narcissistic ways and when we're offered other conditions, we can be more open and interested in the world.
所以，它在流行语言中的用法通常是作为一个掩盖了其他丰富内涵的词语。
So it's usually the way it's used in pop language, it's usually just like a word that covers up a whole other world of things.
我认为，当人们说‘我谈过一个自恋狂’时，他们的意思是：那个人没有给我足够的关注。
I think when people talk about I've dated a narcissist, they're like, that person didn't give me enough attention.
这背后到底意味着什么？
And what's that about?
这其中可能包含很多内容，比如你们之间发生了什么，为什么会出现这种情况，你在其中扮演了什么角色——单用这个词根本说不清楚。
There could be so much there, like what went on between the two of you, why, what happened, where were you in that, it doesn't tell you much.
是的。
Yeah.
我很高兴听到这一点，因为我觉得这个词确实能带来解脱，它本身没错，只是别在这一点上就停止深入探究了。
I'm so happy to hear that because I do think that the word is a relief, it's not that it's wrong, it's just that don't stop unpacking it there.
是的。
Yeah.
这些词语确实能帮助你分类和总结你的经历，但别觉得这就是调查的终点。
So those words are really helpful for you to categorize, summarize your experience, but don't feel that that's the end of the investigation.
对。
Right.
还有很多别的东西。
Like there's so much more.
没错。
Exactly.
你实际上是在害自己。
And you're actually doing yourself a disservice.
是的，当你想到‘我找到了一个词，把所有问题都归咎于外界’时，你就是在欺骗自己。
Yeah, and the moment you're thinking about, I found a word that finds all the problem outside of me, you're deluding yourself.
当你看到一对夫妻来咨询财务问题时，嗯。
When you find couples come in with financial issues Mhmm.
这真的只是钱的问题吗？
Is it really about money?
钱对人们来说是个大问题。
Money is a big issue for people.
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