第25集："你太粘人了"

嘿，大家好。欢迎回到新一期的节目。今天，我和Hannah Lee一起在现场。你好。嗨。

Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode. Today, I'm on the floor with Hannah Lee. Hello. Hi.

非常感谢你今天能来。谢谢邀请我。

Thank you so much for coming today. Thanks for having me.

是的。对于那些还不了解的人，Hannah其实是全职做YouTube的？是的。

Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, Hannah actually does YouTube full time? Yes.

是的？好的。对，我从2015年2月就开始制作YouTube视频了。

Yeah? Okay. Yeah, so I've been making YouTube videos like for, since 02/2015.

哇哦。

Oh wow.

对对对。一开始我只是做一些穿搭视频，因为那时候特别流行，当时我大学毕业后不知道想做什么，后来搬到了加州就专注做这个，转眼到现在，我六月份搬到了纽约，现在已经是全职在做这个了。

Yeah yeah yeah. So I started off just doing like a bunch of look books, because they were like really popular back then, when I didn't really know what I wanted to do after college, and then I moved to California and I focused on that a lot, and then fast forward to now, like am in New York and I moved like in June and I do it full time now.

哇哦。所以你大学一毕业就开始做YouTube了？

Oh wow. So you did YouTube as soon as you finished college?

其实我大四就开始做了，原本想考医学院，但后来觉得可能不适合。所以想给自己找个出口，当时特别喜欢看别人在YouTube上做时尚视频，就也开始拍些四分钟左右的穿搭短片，拍得很糟糕。后来发现自己喜欢美妆和记录生活，就开始往这方面发展。搬到加州后找了份兼职，YouTube只是当兴趣做，没想到很幸运地慢慢做起来了。

I actually did it like my senior year because I was trying to go to med school but then I was like oh god I don't know if I can do this. And so I was like just trying to find an outlet for myself and I loved watching people do fashion videos on YouTube. So I just started doing those like really short like four minute look books And they were awful. But then after that I was like oh I like makeup and I like just vlogging my interests so I just started doing that. I moved to California, I got a part time job and I did YouTube for fun, yeah, and then like it grew thankfully, I was very lucky and yeah.

现在能全职做了？对对。哇哦。

And now you're able to do a full time? Yeah yeah. Oh wow.

我全职做这个才两年左右。

I've only been doing it full time for like two years now.

哦。对，我之前

Oh. Yeah, before I had

不得不做兼职，因为那时候我不想接赞助——毕竟我当时不算大博主，而且联系我的品牌要么想占便宜，要么我不感兴趣。所以我需要兼职来维持生活。

to have a part time job because I didn't, back then I was like I don't really wanna take sponsorships because I'm really not that big of a vlogger and also a lot of the brands are reaching out to me were either taking advantage of me or brands I weren't interested in. So I was like I need a part time job to sustain like my life. Yeah.

等等，那你什么时候搬来纽约的？

Wait so then when did you move to New York?

2020年6月搬的，其实是6月30日，挺有意思的。首先，是什么促使你决定搬来纽约的？我很好奇。其实挺随机的——也不算完全随机，我一直想住这儿，2019年来过三四次纽约。

I moved in June, like June 2020, so actually July, I moved June 30 and it was it was very interesting. I well first of all, what made you pick up and move to New York? Oh. I'm curious about That was actually super random because, well it wasn't that random, I always wanted to live here because I had visited here like in 2019, I think I visited New York like three or four times. Mhmm.

有趣的是第一次来我讨厌这里，后来觉得'这里好玩，活动多，氛围完全不同'。毕竟我习惯旧金山和德克萨斯的慢节奏，到处是草地。而这里街上永远有人，每条街都有新鲜事。

It's funny, the first time I came here I hated it, Then after that I was like, oh this is fun, like there's so many things to do, it's so different. Because I was always used to San Francisco and Texas, very slow, lots of like grass and you know, but here and everything is, it's just really slow, everything here is, there's always people outside, every street you go down there's something to do,

我觉得

I think

我厌倦了慢生活，但不知该做什么。来纽约后突然觉得'这就是我想住的地方'。但当时经济上负担不起——这里物价高，又不能和男友同住。很多观众知道，头三年他承担了我们俩的经济压力。真的吗？对，他特别体贴，主动说'跟我去加州吧，别担心钱，专注你想做的事'。这成了我努力的动力，后来经济独立了才搬来纽约。等经济稳定后，我想'该彻底独立了'——毕竟恋爱期间一直依赖他，至少该试着自己生活。

it was, I was tired of being in a slow paced life, but I didn't know what to do and when I visited New York I was like oh I can really see myself living here. But I didn't know when to move because financially I was like it's expensive here, I won't be living with my boyfriend. And a lot of my viewers know this but like he was very much financially responsible for the both of us for the first three really? Years we Yeah because I mean he was like very gracious and like he basically told me I want you to move to California with me, don't worry about money, like just try your best with whatever you want to do and like so nice and I mean I definitely used that as like motivation to work hard and you know kind of become more independent and then now I can move to New York. And once I became a lot more financially stable, was like okay, I wanna make a big move because I feel like I've been so dependent on him my whole life, or not my whole life, but like the whole time we've been together, and I was thinking okay I need to at least live without him you know.

短暂体验下。对对

For a little bit. Yeah yeah

大学时也算独立过，但感觉那不一样。

like I mean I did in college but that's not I mean that doesn't I feel like that's not the same thing.

确实。

Right.

所以我跟他说，一开始我在想要不要搬去韩国，但后来觉得这工程太大了，我还没准备好。然后我想，算了，我爱纽约，我就搬去

So I told him like hey, at first I was like maybe I should move to Korea but then I was like oh that's too big of a job, like I'm not ready for that. And then I was like okay I love New York, I'll move

纽约

to New

吧。这就是我来纽约的原因，他非常支持我。起初我特别担心经济问题，因为那时我才全职工作了一年，

York. So that's why I moved to New York, he was really really supportive. I think I was really worried at first financially because at that point I had only been working like full time for a year,

我当时

And I was

就在想，万一我不受欢迎怎么办？万一我成了个失败者呢？但幸运的是，我有一群很棒的人喜欢看我的作品，和我兴趣相投还支持我，所以我超级感激。这就是我来纽约的漫长故事。

like, what if I don't become popular, like what if I'm like gonna be a loser and like, you know, but then thankfully like, I feel like I have really great group of people who like to watch what I make, and have the same interest as me, and support me, so I'm super super thankful, but that's basically a really long story of why I got to New York.

其实和我的经历挺像的。我不知道你去过洛杉矶吗？

I mean, it's kinda similar to mine too. It's like I I don't know if you've been to LA?

去过。我住旧金山时经常去。

I have. I did often since I lived in SF.

对。那里的氛围和纽约很不一样。我在那里长大，读高中大学，渐渐感到安逸甚至有点停滞。后来我来纽约旅游时就想：就是这里了。我告诉自己如果现在不做可能永远没机会了，就定了一年期限强制自己搬来。说实话就像吸引力法则，你不断重复就会朝目标努力。

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, you know, it's the vibe is a lot different from New York you know and I think having kind of grown up there, going to high school there, college there, I just felt very complacent and almost a bit stuck and so I you know also I visited New York and I was like alright like I could really see myself here so I was like you know what if I don't do it now I might never and I might always wonder I just made it a goal I gave myself like a year timeline and I was like, okay you're gonna move by this date and then honestly just like manifest it and it happens. Yeah. You know, like if you keep repeating it over and over, you kind of work towards it.

你会为此更努力。我同意。最后就真的实现了。

Like, you work harder for it, I think. Yeah. I agree. So, yeah. And then it eventually happened.

经济压力我懂。搬来纽约太贵了。光机票、行李托运、找房子就攒了很久钱——天啊纽约租房完全是另一个世界，疫情期间价格好些但还是很可怕。

And, like, I get the whole financial thing. Like, moving to New York, it's so expensive. Like, I had to save up so much just to, you know I mean obviously like the flight and all that stuff like shipping all your things and like finding an apartment oh my god apartment hunting in New York is so different yes it's really different such a nightmare it's a little different during Covid because prices are better but oh my god it was so hard.

是啊，房源抢得特别快。

Yeah things get snatched up real quick.

没错。

Yeah.

你知道吧，如果你真喜欢某个地方，很可能还有十个人也特别喜欢。对，就是这样。

You know like if you really like a place chances are 10 other people really like Yeah. It

竞争太激烈了，价格高得离谱，而且大多数时候房子还很老旧。

It's so competitive and the prices are crazy and most of the time the building is old too.

是啊兄弟，这么多老楼。我那栋就破得不行，但我就是想住在市中心感受纽约的氛围，懂吗？因为大家都说——

Yeah dude, so many buildings. My building is old AF but I like I need was to live, I just wanna live downtown and get the feel of New York, you know? Because everyone's like you gotta

必须住在城里。

live like In the city.

对，至少得在城里住一次。所以我虽然公寓特别破，但地段超好，我也就忍了。

Yeah you gotta live in the city at least once, So you I mean I really like even though our apartment is super dingy but the location is like really nice so I'm like okay with it.

是啊。我一直想住在城里，但总觉得...

Yeah. I know I've always wanted to live in the city but I don't know.

说实话布鲁克林现在可火了，我几乎所有朋友都想搬去。真的？对。布鲁克林现在成新宠了。有意思。

Honestly Brooklyn is like another place, I think almost all my friends wanna move to Brooklyn in Really? This Yeah. Brooklyn is like the new thing. Interesting.

我觉得

I think

我们几乎不在曼哈顿活动了。总想往这边跑，虽然我自己也不清楚原因，但就是习惯成自然。

we barely do stuff in Manhattan anymore. We always wanna come down here and do stuff because I I actually don't know why. We just always do.

是啊。确实。还有件事要提醒想搬来纽约的人——你得把需求优先级列清楚，因为租房不可能面面俱到。

Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. I guess another thing about if people are like planning on moving to New York is you need to have like your priorities like listed out because there are some things so like, you can't have it all for apartments. Yeah.

要么优先考虑价格地段，要么在乎房间面积，或是配套设施，总要明确自己最需要什么。

Like you either need to prioritize like the price and location or like is it the size of the room, is it you know like whatever like amenities like what what do need?

实际上要妥协很多，根本没法样样如愿。比如我和现在的室友——她原本也在旧金山，后来决定同期搬回纽约合租。找房时我才发现多困难：整栋楼居然没几台洗衣机，得去外面洗衣店。

You sacrifice quite a lot actually like you don't get everything you want Exactly. For Yeah I think when we, me and, so basically I, my roommate now, she was also in SF and she was moving back to New York and she was like oh let's go at the same time and live together so when we were looking for a place I didn't realize how difficult it was gonna be because I was just like, well, oh there's no like, there's not a lot of laundry in buildings. Yeah. In buildings. You have to go to a laundromat.

太多公寓楼里都没洗衣房。我当时就想：天啊必须要有洗衣机！结果现在住八楼还得爬楼梯。对了，我还需要门卫代收快递。

There's so many places. There's no laundry in the building. And I was like, okay, I need laundry, oh my god, this is like the Eighth Floor, but I have to take all these stairs. Yep. Yeah, there's like elevator, I need a doorman, because I get a lot of packages, you know.

最后不得不放弃很多需求，但房租依然贵得离谱。

And I was just like, I have to sacrifice so much, so many things that I want. And it's so expensive still. Yeah.

都是些细节，比如房间要有窗户、衣柜。很多卧室居然连...

It's like little things, like having a window in your room, having a closet. Like, there are so many bedrooms Yeah, without don't have a

衣柜都没有。我住在隔断间，衣柜在客厅，现在早习惯了。但看房时...

closet. I live in the flex room. I use a closet out in the living room which is like now I'm super used to it. But I remember when we first looked at the

我还坚持必须要有衣柜。现在倒无所谓了。在纽约找房才明白，原来这些都不是理所当然的。

place I was like, I need a closet, what do you mean? But now I'm fine with it. That's why I thought all of these things were just givens Yeah. Until I started apartment hunting here and I was like, damn. I really took all these little things for granted.

洛杉矶那边...

Yeah. Because LA

感觉空间要大得多

has, like, a lot more space, I feel like

在洛杉矶。确实如此。空间更大，地理位置也普遍更好。就像你选个社区，反正开车去哪都差不多。哦，你还得了解地铁站的位置

in LA. Yeah for sure. More space and generally like location. It's like if you pick a neighborhood and everywhere is kind of the same you know since you're driving anyways. Oh and you need to you need also to know about subway stops like

哪里是...天啊，那是最让我焦虑的事，我方向感特别差。而且我不喜欢公共交通。我一直都很奇怪。迷路时我会特别紧张。对，会感到恶心，我也不知道为什么，明明迷路了问路就行

where is Oh my god that was the thing that made me the most anxious like I am really bad at directions. Also I don't like public transportation. I have always been really weird. Like I get really nervous when I get lost. Yeah, like I feel sick and I'm just, I don't know why because if you're lost you just ask someone how to get back.

其实不是什么大事。但对我来说，迷路就像'完了我要死在这儿了，要被困住了'。所以在旧金山时，我慢慢尝试多坐公交。然后

Like it's not that big of a deal. But for me it's like when I get lost I'm like oh god, I'm gonna die here. I'm gonna be stranded. So like in SF, I was slowly trying to ride the bus more. And

到了这里后就想，好吧，这里

then when I got here, was like okay, this

根本没公交。我得学会坐地铁。今天来找你的路上

ain't no bus. I gotta learn how to use this subway. And today when I was actually coming to

我还想'哇居然这么顺利'。坐在地铁上时，你为自己骄傲吗？是啊我

you, I was like wow I did this pretty painlessly. I was sitting on the subway. You're proud of yourself? Yeah I

当时一直盯着

was like staring at

窗外，心想'我一路坐地铁到布鲁克林了'，而且我没...其实

the window and I was like I was like, I took the subway all the way to Brooklyn and I'm not I had

还换乘了一站

to transfer one stop and

我挺好的。是啊。我就觉得，我已经成长了很多。真的。说实话，你都快满一年了。

I'm fine. Yeah. I was like, I've grown so much away. Yeah. Honestly, it's almost been a year for you.

你的一周年纪念日快到了。对。没错。是的。

Your your one year is coming up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

我觉得这段经历真的很棒。我明显感觉到自己在小事上更独立了，虽然这些事在那些从小就这样生活的人眼里可能显得很可笑，对吧。毕竟你是在城市长大的。因为别人会说，你居然害怕坐地铁？

And I feel like it was really good. I feel like I definitely feel more independent for very small things like that, which might not seem like, I feel like it sounds really stupid to other people who like have lived like this their whole life. Right. Being raised in a city you know. Because you know people are like, you're scared of taking the subway?

这太荒谬了。但我是德州人。嗯。来自德州一个真正的小镇，任何新鲜事物都会让我紧张不安。对吧。

That makes no sense. But for so I'm from Texas. Mhmm. Like someone who's from like a really small town in Texas for me I'm just like anything that's really new and different I feel just really nervous about it. Right.

但28岁时

But at 28 years

我现在能独自应对这么多事了。在纽约生活快一年后。确实。哦我变得好强大。不不，说真的我很佩服这一点，因为搬来这里并不容易。

old I can now take so many long. After almost one year of living in New York. Exactly. Oh I'm so strong. No no but seriously I think like I don't know I respect that a lot because like moving here it's not easy.

是啊。独自收拾行囊搬家不容易，特别是像你说的，你在家乡原本有个安全舒适的环境，还有男朋友陪着，所以...

Yeah. You know like picking up and moving alone is not easy especially since like you like you said you did have a very like safe and comfortable space back home like with your boyfriend so I don't know

话说你们现在异地恋怎么样？说起来好笑，我们之前最长只异地过七个月，因为他去澳洲交换留学。那还是大学时候的事了。我记得当时感觉还好，但搬来纽约时我就在想这次会怎样，毕竟他在读商学院，整天要和同学混在一起。你会很想他吗？不会。

like Also how is that like doing long distance now? Long distance like so it's funny because we've only done long distance for like the longest before was like seven months because he went to we went to or he went to Australia for seven months for study abroad, and that was like in college so long ago. But I remember it being not that bad and when I moved to New York, I was like I wonder how this is gonna be, if this is gonna be hard because he's in b school and he's gonna be hanging out with his b school friends all the time. Do you miss him a lot? No.

其实真的不会。抱歉啊吉米。他来过两次，每次要离开时我会特别难过，但真走了我又觉得：现在整个房间都是我的了，想干嘛就干嘛。我想我确实会想他，但没那么强烈，因为我很享受独处的时光。

I actually don't. Sorry Jimmy. I actually don't. I think when he's here, so he's visited twice, and when he's here and he's about to leave, I'm like really sad that he's leaving, but then when he's gone I'm like, man, my whole room is mine now, you know, I can do whatever I want, this is my space, know. And I think I do miss him, but I don't miss him a lot because I feel like I'm having a lot of enjoyment being by myself, and having to do things by myself.

我觉得异地恋最困难的是要记得保持交流。这很奇怪对吧？我们其实很少聊天，他在商学院忙着社交，我也在结交新朋友探索城市。虽然各自精彩是好事，但我们有点过于投入自己的生活了，会忘记安排视频约会或分享日常。我们正在改进，不过我觉得这算是个甜蜜的烦恼——说明我更关注自我成长了。这很奇妙，因为我从小是个黏人的女朋友（我们17岁就在一起了），前六七年都特别依赖对方，花了好久才学会独立——现在还在努力呢。

And I think almost like the hardest part of for me being in a long distance relationship is making sure to, remembering to talk to each other. Oh Yeah which is odd but like I feel like him and I have an issue where we actually don't talk a lot, because he's in b school so he's like trying to network and hang out with all the school friends and for me I'm trying to make new friends here and just explore and stuff which is great that we're both doing our own thing but we almost do our own thing too much and like forget to like make sure to to go on like virtual dates or like talk to each other about life and stuff so we're like trying to get better at that, but I mean I feel like it's kind of a good problem for me to have because I feel like it means that I'm focusing more on myself. It's so strange because I thought I would have the opposite problem because I'm like, I grew up being a very clingy girlfriend, now, because him and I met when we were 17. Oh yeah. So the like first six, seven years I was very very clingy I feel like it took me a long time to grow out of that and become more independent which I'm still working on.

但确实，我觉得这奇怪地成为长期异地恋中最困难的部分之一，如果

But yeah I feel like that's oddly a very difficult part of being in a long term long distance relationship if

是的，这确实...对对不，我完全理解这一点，因为我曾经有过一段七年的恋情。我16岁就认识他了，或者说16岁开始和他约会，然后大概23岁左右分手的。

Yeah that makes yeah yeah no I I completely under understand that because I was in like a seven year relationship back so I I met him when I was 16 also or I started dating him when I was 16 and then I think we broke up when I was 23 or

之类的。很长时间了。

something. Long time.

是的，所以我理解那种关于保持独立、学习做自己的部分。因为当你那么年轻就开始恋爱时，你还没有形成强烈的自我认同，所以你会逐渐变成这个人的女朋友，这几乎成了你唯一的角色定位。我完全懂这种感觉。不过你们不会觉得疏远吗？我觉得如果我在异地恋中却不怎么联系对方，我会感到非常脱节。

Yeah so I understand that part about like being clean and like you know just learning to be your own person because when you start dating at such a young age, you you haven't formed such like a strong identity of yourself so you kind of morph into this person's girlfriend, like that's your only role for sure Yeah, so I mean I get that. Yeah. But do you guys not feel distant? I feel like if I was in a long distance relationship and I wasn't talking to them that much, I would feel very disconnected.

我和他其实不常打电话，都不太喜欢频繁通话，这可能也是我们不怎么实际交谈的原因。但我会整天给他发视频私信，比如随手拍下我正在做的事，或者'快看Pepper多可爱'之类的。哦Pepper是我们的狗。当他回传些内容，或者在一天结束时发来一堆他当天活动的照片时，我就感觉通过这种方式和他保持着联结。我们并非完全不交流，每周还是会通一两次长时间电话，偶尔他也会突然打来就说句'嘿我还活着'这样。

Him and I don't talk on the phone, don't like talking on the phone a lot, hence probably why we like don't really like actually speak speak that much, but throughout the day like I will send him video DMs of me just like whatever I'm doing, I'm like oh look at this, or like look at I'm doing, look at Pepper, you know. Oh Pepper's our dog. And then just stuff like that. And I feel like when he sends me stuff back or he'll send me like a bunch of photos at the end of the day of like what he did, I feel like in that way I feel connected to him and like I don't wanna make it seem like we don't talk like at all. Like we talk like once or twice a week on the phone like for a long time and then he'll call me once in a while just to be like hey I'm alive you know.

但我不觉得和他有隔阂，因为我们互相分享视频照片。我越来越意识到每段关系真的都不同——我对这种交流方式很自在，而我有些朋友就需要每天早晚各通话一次。只要双方都认可就行。虽然我和他的模式可能看起来有点怪，但对我们有效。

But I feel like I don't feel that disconnected from him because we just send each other videos and like photos and I almost feel like I'm realizing that every relationship is truly like different because for me I feel very comfortable with this kind of communication, whereas for other people, like I know my friends, like they need more. Need like speak every on the night, like every morning, or twice a day, which is fine as long as like both of you agree to it, know, but like for me and him, it might seem a little bit odd but I feel like it works for us. Yeah. Yeah I mean as long as

只要你们达成共识就行。你觉得这是因为你们恋爱太久了吗？

you guys are on the same page. Yeah yeah yeah. Do you think that's because you guys have been dating for so long though?

确实，我们早过了那种腻歪的阶段...

I do think so like we're definitely not in that lovey dovey stage where I

不需要每天通话的阶段了是吧，完全过去了

You have to like talk every single Yeah yeah yeah yeah we're just totally past

但我要说，正因为我们的爱非常深厚，这和初恋时完全不同（你经历过长期关系应该懂）。我们始终在成长变化，而异地正好展现了我们如何既各自蜕变又保持联结。以前他出差三个月时我会要求每天通话，现在我会说'别让联系影响你的体验，我们协调合适时间就好'。虽然听起来奇怪，但这种模式让我们既能独立生活，又能在一周后分享'天哪这周发生了这么多事'。

that but like I will say like I feel like because I feel like the way we love each other is really really strong, it's very different from obviously when I mean you would know too you've been like in a really long relationship. I feel like it's so different than when you first start and we're always gonna grow and change and I very much accepted that and I feel like this long distance thing is just showing now again how we have changed, but how we're like, we're changing separately but also together so like, we used to, I used to be like, you have to call me every day when he would like go on vacation for like three months or whatever, but now I'm like, I don't wanna take away from your experience, so you tell me when it's good for you, I'll tell you when it's good for me, and we'll try and work something out, no hard feelings, right? And I feel like that works for us. Feel like it sounds really weird when I'm saying it but like, I feel like it does work for us and like, I mean I like it, I feel like it lets us both be people in our own lives but also like come back after a week and be like, oh my god, all this happened this week.

是啊。你知道的，对。

Yeah. You know, yeah.

好的。我们稍作暂停，因为我有件激动人心的事要和大家分享。本期节目由Athena Club赞助，这是一个可持续且零残忍的健康品牌。最近我试用了他们的几款产品，特别是Athena Club剃刀。在此之前，我一直用那些便宜的普通品牌剃刀，总是出现毛发倒生的问题，而且钝刀片需要频繁更换。

Alright. We're gonna pause here real quick because I have something exciting to share with you guys. This episode is sponsored by Athena Club, which is a sustainable and cruelty free wellness brand. And I recently got to try a few of their products, particularly the Athena Club razor. And prior to this, I was just using the cheap generic branded ones, and I would always find myself getting ingrown hairs and I would have to replace the dull blades pretty often.

但Athena Club剃刀拥有市场上最锋利的专利刀片，每次都能带来极致顺滑的剃须体验——这对毛发粗硬的我来说太棒了。它还含有遇水激活的乳木果油与透明质酸精华液，特别适合干燥的冬季。整套仅需9美元，包含两个刀头和一个磁性支架，有六种颜色可选（我选了天蓝色）。即使你现在不需要剃刀，也值得去看看，因为他们有各种平价自我护理产品。

But with the athena club razor, it actually has the sharpest patented blade on the market so you'll get a super smooth shave every single time which is great because I have pretty prickly legs. And it also actually has a water activated serum with shea butter and hyaluronic acid so it's perfect for this dry winter weather. Plus it's only $9 and you'll get two razor heads, a magnetic holder and you can choose from six colors. I got the sky blue. Even if you don't need a razor, honestly check it out anyways because they have so many different self care products and it's super affordable.

从益生菌、复合维生素到洁面巾、止汗剂、卫生巾棉条——你能想到的护理产品他们都有，包装还特别可爱。访问athenaclub.com（无空格输入促销码onthefloor）首单可享8折优惠。

There's probiotics, multivitamins, face wipes, deodorants, pads, tampons, honestly just any self care product you could think of. Plus their packaging is really cute. Just head on over to athenaclub.com. That's athenaclub.com and use promo code on the floor without any spaces, and you'll get 20% off your first order. Yeah.

不过我好奇的是，你们是怎么从那种渴求关注的状态，过渡到现在这种相处模式的？我觉得这需要某种内在的思维转变对吧？

I guess I'm wondering though, like, how did that transition happen from, like, being a needy and wanting all this time and attention and then to going to what you guys are doing now? You know? Because, like, I feel like that that takes some sort of like change of mindset within you or whatever, you know?

确实。理想情况下本不该这样转变，但吉米天生是个独狼。作为独生子，高中刚交往时我就喜欢他的独立性。可能我在他身上看到了自己渴望却做不到的特质——那时我特别黏人。在吉米之前我有过四个月的初恋。

Yeah. Think ideally this wasn't the like the best way for it to happen, but it's definitely because Jimmy is a very lone wolf. He's an only child and when I first dated him in high school I really liked how he was so independent, very lone wolf y. And I guess because I saw something in him that maybe I wanted to be but I was so clingy. I had a boyfriend right before Jimmy for like four months.

老实说那四个月塑造了我对女友身份的认知，我以为...

But honestly I will say that that four months being with that dude, because he was my first boyfriend, made, shaped how I thought I was supposed to be as a girlfriend. So I thought I was

应该要

supposed to be

黏人，对方也该只围着我转——这种荒谬观念是初恋灌输的。所以和吉米刚开始交往时，他直接说：'你得冷静点，我才18岁没打算安定下来'。这话很伤人，但幸好我能感受到他的爱，加上朋友也说我太过了，我开始反复告诫自己：'他有自己的人生，你也该有'。于是我开始多陪朋友，对吉米说：'不，我要和我的朋友玩，发展自己的爱好（比如做YouTube视频）'。这个过程持续了五六年，现在终于找到了健康平衡——会想念但不过度纠缠。

clingy and he was supposed to only want me, I was supposed to be his whole life, like he wouldn't have to need anything else, which is ridiculous you know, but this guy made me feel like I was supposed to have that kind of person and be that kind of person, so when we first started dating, me and Jimmy like, he basically was like dude you gotta like chill. I like, I have my life and like things that I wanna do and I'm only 18 like I'm not like settling down with you right now you know. And that was quite hard for me to hear obviously and I think luckily I could see that he loved me and that advice from my friends too that I'm being too much you know? And that really made me work on like just repeating to myself like, okay if he's gonna have his own life, you know, you need to have your own life. So I I started making sure I would go out with my friends more, and I would say like, Yeah.

是啊。虽然有时能掩饰，但真正达到这种状态还是花了很长时间。

No Jimmy, I'm gonna hang out with my own friends, and like, do my own things, pick up my own hobbies, aka like YouTube and stuff. And that was like a really long process, I think I was clingy for like at least five, six years of our relationship. Yeah. I think I was okay at hiding it sometimes, but I think now I've fully kind of settled into like a good healthy balance of you know, missing him but not being overbearing about it, you know?

对，是的，我认为你提出了一个重要观点，因为我也是通过艰难方式才明白这一点。我们之前稍微讨论过，我过去倾向于依赖伴侣的朋友圈——当初搬到纽约时就是这样，因为我在这里确实不认识多少人。当时我所有的朋友和认识的人，都是通过当时约会对象认识的。问题是，一旦那段关系结束，你就又回到了起点。什么都没剩下，这就是我付出代价才学到的教训。我当时就想，好吧，以后无论和谁交往，保持自己独立的生活实在太重要了。

Right, yeah and I think that's an important point you bring up because something I had to learn the hard way is we kind of talked about it earlier where like I tend to kind of rely on my partner's friends or I did when I moved to New York because I just didn't really know that many people here. So all the friends and the people I was meeting, it was through the person I was dating at the time. And what happens is if that relationship ends, you are back to square one. You have nothing of left and so that was something I had to learn the hard way. I was like, alright, so anytime you're dating, it's so important to just have your own life.

我知道这话听起来像是常识，但对某些人来说真不是这样，特别是当你处于朋友不多、或是刚到一个新城市之类的情况时，绝不能只依赖一个人来帮你构建生活圈。绝对不行。

I know it sounds like so, it's just common sense for some people, but for others it's really not, you Especially if you are in kind of a situation where you don't have that many friends or you're in a new city or whatever, it's so important that you don't depend on just one person to kind of help you build this life up. For sure.

否则，

Otherwise,

你永远无法预料会发生什么。当然，我希望没人会分手。但是...你懂的，世事难料。

you really just never know what's gonna happen. Like, obviously, like, I hope, you know, no one's breaking up. Yeah. But, like, but you just You know, know. You really never know.

是啊。

Yeah.

完全同意。那你觉得，经历那件事之后...我是说，你是怎么重新振作的？比如意识到'天啊，我和这家伙分手了'之后？

Exactly. I totally agree. Do you think, like, after that like, I guess, how did you pick yourself up after that happened? Like, realizing, like, oh, man. I broke up with this guy.

我当时都没意识到其实也等于和所有这些人绝交了

I didn't realize I was breaking up with all these people

那些通过他认识的人，对吧？确实。但我也认为，面对任何问题的第一步都是承认并消化它。因为在我难过之前，我根本没意识到自己这个问题。

I met too, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But I also think that the first step to anything is acknowledging it and processing it, you know? Because I don't think I knew this about myself until after I was sad or whatever.

我允许自己感受所有情绪，不管当时是什么感受。然后我就得告诉自己：'Esther，振作起来，到底怎么回事？'你会开始思考所有事情发生的原因——我觉得人最大的成长就发生在这样独处反省的时刻。不过...呃，我刚刚说到哪儿了？

I let myself feel the emotions, whatever I was feeling and then I had to be like alright Esther like get it together so like what's going on like what's wrong and you just kind of think about all of you know the reasons why certain things happen like you just kind of I feel like that's where the most growth happens is just like when you just have that time to yourself to like process but yeah I don't know where I was going with that.

我现在脑子完全转不动了，真的太难了，因为...

I'm having so many brain No breaks it's right hard because like,

就像当人们问你，你是怎么从某种困境中走出来的，比如心理或情绪上的困境，我觉得并没有一个确切的时间点让你觉得‘啊，我彻底改变了’，而更像是通过一系列你可能都没注意到的小小步骤逐渐摆脱了那种状态。所以我理解，特别是觉得有室友可能也帮了大忙。

you're like when people ask you like oh like how'd you get out of like a certain situation like a, guess like a mental or emotional situation, I feel like there's not really one pinpoint in time where you think that you were just like the switch was done, it's more like a gradual thing of like tiny little steps that maybe you don't even notice that you did to like get out of whatever rut you were in. So like I get it, especially I feel like maybe having roommates too has helped a lot.

哦其实，你知道什么真的有用吗——虽然这话听起来很老套——就是大家总说的‘专注自我，提升自己’。

Oh actually, you know what helps, again this is so cheesy but you know how everyone always says like you know, focus on yourself, work on yourself.

是啊，

Yeah,

没错。这话太对了，烦人的是它确实对。但千真万确，只要你肯在自己身上投入时间和精力，绝对会有回报。百分百同意。

yeah. That is so So true, it's so annoying that it's true. Yeah, but it is very true, like just if you invest the time and energy in yourself, it really pays off. A 100%, I agree. Yeah.

虽然听起来像陈词滥调，但确实如此。比如这个播客就是这么来的，还有好多其他事情，包括一些友谊，都是因此展开的。你永远不知道会错过什么，除非真正行动起来。懂我意思吧？

Like, it's so cliche, but it really does. Like, I mean, obviously, like, even this podcast came out of that and, like, just so many different things and, like, so many friendships, you know, unfolded from that and it's just like you really never know what you're missing out on until you just do it. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

我觉得这个观点特别——因为说来挺随机的——我在纽约的朋友今年告诉我，他每年都会选一个年度关键词。他说今年他的词是‘康复’。我说‘有意思’，他反问我‘你的词是什么？’

I think that was a really that's like so I feel like that's so true because it's so so this is a random story. Uh-huh. But my friend in New York, he was telling me this year, he goes, I always have a word for every year. I'm like, He's like, this year my word is recovery. And I was like, oh interesting, he's like, what's your word?

我当时说‘我从没想过’

And I was like, I've never had

选年度词，不过今年或许可以试试

a word before, but maybe I'll do it

今年我的词是‘直接行动’，因为我总是那种‘想做某件事→纠结半年→可能最终做不成’的人。我特别害怕改变，害怕犯错，所以今年我决定不再这样。只要是深思熟虑过的事，我就立刻去做。就算搞砸了又怎样？至少能从中学习。比如我最近第一次去纹身了。

this year. And my word this year is like, just do it, because I'm the kind of person where I'm like, I wanna do this, let me think about it for six months and then do it, maybe, not sure, you know what I mean? I'm I'm just really afraid of change, I'm really afraid of making a mistake, and so this year I was like no more. The things that I've always thought about, I'm just gonna do it like you know and if I make a mistake whatever at least in any case everything that I do, I will learn something from it, you know? Like for example, I like recently got a tattoo for the first time.

纹的什么？是个辣椒图案。

Oh, what? It's a pepper.

哦等等，那太可爱了。

Oh wait, that's so cute.

但我想看看。

But I wanna see it.

哦，等等。那真的很可爱。

Oh, wait. That's really cute.

我没纹是因为我妈是那种讨厌纹身的韩国妈妈。

And I didn't do it because my mom is like the Korean mom that like hates tattoos.

我妈也是。

My mom too.

当我告诉她我很想纹身时，她看我的眼神就像我抢了银行一样。

She was like when I told her I really wanted to get one, she just looked at me like I did the, like I robbed a bank, like she

即使你纹的是你家狗狗，她也那样。

was like even though you got a tattoo of your dog, she was

她就说求你别纹，巴拉巴拉的。然后我看向我爸，他说没关系想纹就纹呗。我就想好吧那就纹吧。只要我藏着不让她看见，她就假装不知道。虽然她生气但我还活着嘛，所以还好。现在我每个月都要尝试一件一直想做但没做过的事。

like, she's like please don't do it, like blah blah. Yeah. And I looked at my dad and he was like it's fine, just do it you know, whatever and I was like okay, I'm gonna do it and she does, she doesn't bring it up with me as long as I keep it hidden, I feel like she's whatever but I'm like okay, you know, she was mad but like I'm still alive so okay good. And now I'm like, once a month, I'm gonna try and do something that I've always wanted to do that I haven't done before.

哦哇。

Oh woah.

对啊，算是给自己找点期待。每次这样做之后，虽然说不清具体哪里不同，但整个人状态会变好。嗯。所以我要坚持下去，比如这个月打算和朋友写首歌玩玩。真的？就图个开心啦。

Yeah, and just to like, give myself something to look forward to, and I feel like whenever I do stuff like that, I always feel like, I can't pinpoint how I feel different, but I feel different in a good way. Mhmm. So I'm gonna keep trying to do that, like this month, I'm trying to like make a song with a friend. Oh, really? Just for fun, you know?

就像我一直对亚马逊做的那样。是啊，我一直想这么做，为什么不呢，你懂吧？所以，没错。就像你说的那样，谈论如何自我提升和投资自己，我完全同意。我觉得这真的很有趣，而且你会更喜欢自己。

Like, I've always done to Amazon. Yeah, like, I've always wanted to do it, like, why not, you know? So, yeah. It's like, just talking about how you're saying, like, working on yourself and investing in yourself, like, I completely agree. I feel like it's just really fun and you, like, like yourself more.

是啊，不，这太对了。我特别喜欢这个，因为我有个朋友年初问我，'你今年的年度关键词是什么？'我都不知道还有这种说法。

Yeah. No. That's that's so true. And I I love that because I had a friend who actually asked me to at the beginning of the year like, oh, what's your word of the year? I didn't know that was a thing.

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

好吧，原来真有这种说法。我以为我朋友在...我也没有年度词，但也许你该想一个。对吧？

Okay. Is a thing. I thought my friend was I I don't have a word either but Maybe you should have one. I know. Right?

就是每天活得更有目的性。'目的'可以当你的年度词。'目的'，这话没错。

Just to live every day with more intention. Intention. That could be your word. Intention. That's true.

你知道那个'想做就做'的理念吗？我觉得你越坐着想某件事，就越会自我怀疑。所以最后就永远不去做了。是啊，所以我觉得'想做就做'是个好格言。

So you know what it is about, like, the whole just do it thing? I feel like the more you sit and think on something, the more you start doubting yourself too. And that's why, like, you end up just never doing it. Yeah. So yeah, think that's like a good motto, just do it.

对。只要别...如果是你之前想过但没做的事，就直接去做。因为...对吧？这样你就不用再想它了，而且做完会很高兴。

Yeah. Just don't like if if it's something you've thought about before and you just haven't done it, like just go do it because Right. Then you're just like not gonna think about it anymore and you'll be happy that you have it.

是啊是啊。就像...这个例子可能很蠢，但记得上学时老师说不要改答案吗？

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kinda like, you know, people this is so stupid but like remember when we were in school and they were like don't second guess your answer. Yeah.

考试时我总回头改答案。每次改都改错，气死我了。

Like on the on the exams and stuff, I would always go back and change my answer. I always changed my answer. And it was always wrong. I was like damn it.

而我当时特别自信，三十分钟前还觉得汉娜真蠢。是啊。

And I'd be so confident and I'd be like thirty minutes ago Hannah was so dumb. Yeah.

当时就觉得该死，我本该相信自己的直觉，不过这也算第一课吧。

Was like damn it, I should just stuck with my gut but I guess that's lesson number one.

我懂。人们真该牢记这点。没错。我们在这个播客里提醒大家，别事后诸葛亮。

I know. People need to really remember that. Yeah. We're reminding people on this podcast, don't second I guess

明白。那你觉得这是不是也改善了你和吉米的关系？就像你更坚定地认识自我，找到热爱的事物后...

know. So then do you feel like that's kind of like helped your relationship with Jimmy too? Is like you getting such a like firmer grasp on yourself, finding what you love and like

我想是的，因为我发现以前没有自己生活重心时，我更容易对他生气，我觉得...

I think so because I noticed like when before if I didn't have my own things, I was like more angry at him and I think

当他留你一个人时？嗯。

it when he left you alone? Yeah.

我觉得是出于嫉妒，比如你有这么多朋友，而我只会跟着你转，然后你就丢下我去找他们。后来我意识到，这些想法很多源于我自己选择不去社交、选择跟他去伯克利或加州什么的。他做了很多决定，但不是说他很专横...

I think it was out of like jealousy like, you have all these friends and I just follow you around and then you just leave me and hang out with these And then I realized as I was thinking those things a lot of those decisions are my decision not to go out and meet his friends, to follow him to Berkeley or California whatever. And all these, he's made a lot of decisions and I'm not saying like he's really bossy.

是啊

Yeah

对。他总是征求我意见，但我从小就是个乖孩子，通常就随大流。然后我就产生了怨恨，这很糟糕因为他根本没做错什么。他只想照顾好我，让我开心，但你知道一个人不可能承包你全部的快乐。

yeah. He's always like asked me but I'm just, I've always been a very obedient child, so I usually just go with the flow. And I was getting, guess I was feeling like resentment for it which sucks because he didn't do anything. Yeah. Know, all he did was try and take care of me and make sure that I was happy but you know obviously one person can't make your whole life happy.

而且

And

所以现在我开始独立做这些事，反而更高兴看到他结交朋友或培养新爱好。我会想'这样很好啊'，也爱听你分享快乐——以前不是这样的。虽然也开心但总想着：能爆粗吗？嗯...为什么我总觉得这么糟心？

so I think that now that I'm doing this and all this stuff on my own, I feel like I feel more happy when he he's like hanging out with his friends or like making new hobbies and doing stuff without me. I'm like oh that's good and I love hearing how happy you are about these things which before I didn't because I mean I did but I didn't. I was happy but I was always like why do I feel can I cuss? Mhmm. Why do I feel so shitty?

是啊。

Yeah.

那种感觉特别棒，你懂我意思吗？后来我意识到，问题就在于我没有为自己投资。所以现在我觉得这种‘直接去做’的态度让我更快乐了，比如今天——其实我是个超级宅的人，特别喜欢待在家里。但如果宅太久真的不好。我跟他说‘今天要去录个播客’，他当时就说‘真为你骄傲，你终于出门做点事了’。

And you feel so good, you know what I mean? And I realized it was just, I wasn't investing in myself. Yeah you know, so in that way I feel like my just do it thing has made me like, feel happier because I feel like, like even today I was he was, because I'm a very big homebody, I really love to stay at home. But if I stay at home too much, it's really bad. And I was telling him like, oh yeah, I'm going, to do like a podcast today and he was like, I'm so proud of you, you're going outside, like you're doing things.

我说‘我知道啊’。就是这类小事，确实在改变我们关系的平衡。

I'm like, I know. Yeah, so like just stuff like this I feel like it is definitely changing the balance in our relationship.

等等，你每月尝试新事的清单里包含上播客吗？没有？那这次就算数啦。跑步任务你已完成。他当时是不是超惊讶‘你居然要上播客？’

Oh wait, one thing a month you haven't done or have you been on a podcast? No, this is Yep, alright, that counts. Yeah. You're good for running. I know, he was like, you're gonna be on a podcast?

太酷了！我室友还说‘天啊等节目出来我们一定要听’。这种支持太暖心了，真的好可爱。

That's so cool. And my roommates were like, oh my god, we're gonna listen to it when it comes out. Oh, I love the support. Yeah. That's so cute.

好，那我有个问题——不知道算不算劲爆——长期关系中很多人会问‘怎么保持新鲜感或趣味性’？

Okay. So then, I actually have I don't know if this is like a juicy question, but like, you know how in long term relationships, a lot of people ask like how do you keep things kind of like spicy or like interesting?

天啊这问题简直...大家真的总问这个？我觉得这问题多半指向性生活。但对我来说，保持乐趣的答案永远是‘带伴侣一起体验新事物’——比如我想去某家餐厅，对待朋友也是这个道理，我会直接说‘走，我们一起去，肯定有意思’。我总在找‘体验搭档’，可能是吉米也可能是别人，这种方式确实让我的友情和爱情都充满乐趣。

Oh my gosh, that is the most You people positive ask that? I think when I get that question it's mostly pertaining to sex. Right. Because I feel like the answer to how to keep things fun is, for me is always like just go do things with your partner that like for example if I'm like oh I wanna go eat at this place, even with my friendships like to not like let it be boring, I'm like okay I'm going with you, like we're going together and it'll be fun, you know, like I always like if I'm always thinking about oh I wanna go try this, I'm always like I'm a pick a person to go try this with. Sometimes it'll be Jimmy or it'll be someone else and I feel like in that sense that has kept my friendships and relationships fun you know?

至于‘保持火辣’这个问题，我被问得太多了，因为...

And I think in terms of like how to keep it spicy like, I get this question so much because

真的吗？

You do?

是啊！毕竟我们在一起十年了，他是我初恋，第一个也是唯一一个发生关系的对象。所以人们总会问‘从没想过和别人试试吗？’这类问题。

Yeah because everyone's like oh my god ten years like, and I've never been with anyone else, he's like my first, the first guy I've ever had sex with and the only guy and so like I think people are just like you you've never been with anyone else. A lot of questions come with that, oh do you feel like you wanna be with anybody else?

是啊，你好奇吗？对对对对。

Yeah, like are you curious? Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

我想我现在就一次性回答所有这些问题吧。首先，这个问题我已经回答过很多次了，因为说实话，我和他一直都保持着非常开放的沟通，我觉得这很重要。是的，我们当然也考虑过和其他人在一起的可能性，因为我们依然会觉得其他人很有吸引力。我们达成的共识是，如果未来我们真的想和别人发展关系，那到时候再讨论。我们聊过开放式关系，对此并不避讳。在一起这么久，我很确信他深爱着我，而我们想尝试与其他人交往纯粹是出于生理层面的好奇——毕竟我只和这一个人有过性体验，难免会想知道和别人会是什么感觉。

Like I guess I'll just tackle all of those right now but one, I've answered this so many times because I feel like just honestly yeah like him and I both have always talked like very open about I think that's important. Yeah yeah, we're always just like of course we have thought about being with other people because we definitely still find other people very attractive you know. And I think we've settled on the fact like if in the future we ever wanted to be with anyone else that is a discussion for us to have then and like we've talked about having an open relationship and I don't think we're like just shy about that and I think because we've been together for so long I'm very like comfortable in how much he loves me and I know that this whole thing about us wanting to try and be with other people is purely a physical thing. You know, you're like I wonder what sex would be like with someone else because I've only ever known sex with this one person. You know, and people are like, do you feel like you're missing out on anything?

我的感觉是...也不完全是，但确实有这种念头，不过还不至于强烈到想要...

I'm like, I mean no, but yes, but not, I don't think that enough to want to Like end

结束这段关系。

the relationship.

对，或者和别人在一起。但我总是说，如果真有这种强烈想法我会坦诚相告。比如我们可以尝试开放式关系，肉体层面开放，但情感上他永远是我的唯一。嗯...不过目前其实没怎么认真考虑过，但如果真有那一天，是的。关于第二个问题——如何保持床笫之欢的新鲜感，希望这么说不会太露骨：我总建议人们，如果有想尝试的玩法就应该大胆提出来。记得我们21岁才初尝禁果...

Yeah and be with someone else, but I always tell them if I ever feel strongly I will let you know like, can we like try to be in like an open relationship where I'm like physically open with other people but like, you are my guy you know? Mhmm. And yeah, but I just, I really haven't like thought about it that much but if that were ever to come up, yes. And then I guess like the second thing about feeling like spicy in the bedroom, I always tell people like, I hope this isn't TMI, but I always tell people like if there's something that you've like wanted to try, you should just ask and try. Like I remember like before when we were young, we didn't have sex till we were like 21?

嗯哼

Mm-mm

那时候传教士体位就够新鲜刺激了，但后来自然会想尝试新花样。我的经验是借助些小工具，比如情趣玩具、眼罩之类的小物件，这些都能重燃好奇心——猜不到对方下一步要做什么的感觉很妙。这就是我保持激情的秘诀。

You know, something like that. Mhmm. And I like obviously it was like wow this is cool and new so like you know missionary was like the thing you know, like at first I was like yeah but then obviously like you want to do new things you know, like I feel like always tell people, one thing that I've tried is like using like tools, like sex toys or like like, what's it called, like an eye mask or something like, and those like really small things kind of rekindle curiosity, like what is this person gonna do next or like blah blah blah. And so I feel like that's my opinion on keeping it spicy. Right.

就是引入新元素。对对对。

Like introduce something new. Yeah yeah yeah.

不必害羞，其实害羞本身也可以成为情趣的一部分。没错吧？确实如此。

And then like not to be shy about it or if you are shy about it, that could also be part of the experience. Yeah. You know? True. Yeah.

所以这其实是个很难统一回答的问题，毕竟每个人的性癖好都不同。但我始终鼓励人们和伴侣开诚布公地交流，共同探索双方都感兴趣的新鲜事物。

So I just feel like it's kind of a hard question to answer because I feel like everyone's sex taste is very different, but I like always encourage people to like talk to their partner about it and like see what new things you guys would both be interested in.

对。

Right.

你知道，如果你不想做，那就别勉强自己再做一次。

You know, and if you're not, then you just don't do it again.

是啊是啊。我觉得最重要的是保持开放的对话。对对对。嗯。

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the most important part is just like having that open dialogue. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah.

但我完全理解为什么人们会那么想，因为我不知道你怎么样，但在长期关系中，你不可能总是想做那事。比如我有过几周的冷淡期，那时就是不想有性生活，但后来这种感觉就过去了。不知道你有没有类似经历？

But I for sure like can see why people would think that because I don't know about you but like, there's always like, I feel like when you're in a long term relationship, you're never like wanting to do it all the time, you know, like I feel like I've had like a dry spell for like a few weeks where I'm like, like I don't really wanna like have sex right now but then like, it goes away, you know? I don't know, I don't know if you felt like No,

长期关系中我肯定也有过那种阶段，不过持续时间不长。而且我大概知道原因——可能是自我感觉不好，或是荷尔蒙问题之类的。如果能识别出原因，就不会过度纠结。因为这很容易演变成安全感问题，比如‘他们为什么不想和我亲热？’‘是不是对我没吸引力了？’这种小念头会冒出来。但如果不是这个原因，那可能纯粹是因为最近太忙、压力大之类的。

definitely had that when I was in like the long term relationship but it never lasted that long and I think I kind of also knew the reasons why, like it was you know, I didn't really feel that great about myself or maybe it was like a hormonal thing or whatever and if you I feel like if you're kind of able to identify that then it doesn't become so much of a because it can become it can easily become an insecurity thing can sometimes feel like oh why don't they want to have sex with me? Know? Yeah. Are they not attracted to me anymore? Little thoughts like that can come up, but if it's not that, then it might purely be because you're really busy these days or you're stressed out or, like, whatever.

可能性实在太多了。

Like, there could be so many different reasons.

而且这点太真实了——当你不想亲热时，伴侣却想。所以沟通特别重要。真的不是你的问题，完全是我的原因。

Also, that that's, like, so true. Like, when you are, like, not really wanting to, like, have sex and then your partner is, like, and that's why it's really important to like talk about it. Yeah. Because like it's not you, literally it's me.

懂吧？对对对。所以我理解那种‘是不是我哪里没做好’的焦虑感。

You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So like I get it, you can it's easy to feel like, oh no, is there something I'm not doing?

‘他们是不是不喜欢我了？’这种疑虑只要说开，其实很容易得到 reassurance（ reassurance 中文语境常用英文原词）。

Are they not attracted to me anymore? Yeah, I feel like even things like that, if you bring it up, you can easily be reassured about something like that.

嗯嗯同意。

Yeah yeah agree.

因为有时候你会害怕提起这件事，担心对方可能现在，我不知道，只因为你说了才去做某些事。是啊，就是那种‘哦，你这么做只是因为我说了’的感觉。嗯哼。我希望你是出于自愿才做的。

Because I feel like sometimes you can almost feel afraid to bring that up because they might now, I don't know, only do certain things because you said that. Yeah. You know that whole thing where like, oh, you only do this because I told you to. Mhmm. Like, I want you to do it because you want to do it.

你知道大家都用的那个借口吗？我也用过。不，别担心。我肯定以前说过这话。

You know that argument that everyone uses? I use it. No. Don't worry. I've definitely said that before.

但类似这样的事。是啊。

But it's like things like that. Yeah.

是啊。说实话，我每一段感情都——

Yeah. Honestly, every relationship I

我懂，兄弟。我总说，天啊，太搞笑了。我记得前几天才说过。我当时就说，

know dude. I always say that like, oh my god, that's so funny. I think I literally said that the other day. I was like,

我们通电话时他说，希望我在道晚安时说‘我爱你’。嗯哼。

I was we're on the phone and he was like, I wish you would say like I love you when you say goodnight. Mhmm.

因为我总是只说晚安然后发个

Because I always just say goodnight and I put a

爱心，接着开勿扰模式睡觉。嗯哼。然后我说好吧。后来我开始说了，他反而不说了。嗯哼。

heart and then I put do not disturb and I go to sleep. Mhmm. And I was like, okay. And then like, I started saying it and then he stopped saying it. Mhmm.

然后我

And I

就说，现在你倒不说了。他愣了一下说，等等什么？我就说...他马上说我现在就说，但我表示我不想要——

was like, well now you're not saying it. And he was like, he's like wait what? And I was like he's like okay I'll say it now and I'm like I don't want

让你这么做是因为我这么说了。我希望你这么做是因为你想让我争论之类的。

you to do it because I said so. I want you to it because you want me to argue blah blah.

对对对，太搞笑了。看吧，这种争论你永远赢不了。

Yeah yeah yeah. It was so funny. Yeah. See that argument you can never win. Yeah.

你其实没办法。你就只是...

You can't really. You're just like

因为现在问题是，你到底想不想让我做？你都已经这么说了，我现在无话可说。我不知道该怎么办。好吧，我该停止用这个论点。

because now it's like, do you want me to do it or not? It's like you already said it so now I have nothing. I don't know what to do. Oh, okay. I should stop using that argument.

不过这真的很难。不，我也说过这种话，但当别人对你这么说时，你就会想，哦，那现在怎么办？你到底想让我怎么做？

It's really hard though. No. I've said it too but then when someone says that to you, you're like, oh, well now what like what do you want me to do then? Yeah. Yeah.

太有趣了。真希望你男朋友也在场，你们可以一起玩这个。

That's so funny. I really wish your boyfriend was here. If you guys could do this together.

哦对啊。

Oh yeah.

感觉那样也会很有趣。我很想听听他的看法。

Feel like that'd be fun too. I would love to hear like his side.

没错，他...其实挺有意思的，因为在我的视频里，我会做一种叫'与汉娜交心'的环节，有点像这个但更偏向于人们真心想听我对他们情况的意见或建议，所以他们会...

Oh yeah, he's like, it's funny because on my videos, I do like these things called Heart to Hannah's and like people ask me, it's like a little similar to this but like instead of a conversation it's more like people genuinely want to hear my opinion or advice on their circumstance so like they'll

是问答形式吗？

Is it a Q and A?

算是吧，所以当我和吉米一起做这件事时很受欢迎，因为我觉得他提供了不同于女性的视角。我不觉得男性在谈论情感话题时能同样自在，所以每当他和我一起时，我感觉他能给出更理性、更易引发共鸣的回应。挺有意思的。所以我认为你和情侣搭档做这个会很有趣。

Yeah kind of yeah and so when I do it with Jimmy it's very popular because I think he offers a different perspective than a woman. I don't really feel like men feel as comfortable talking about like emotional things as much so whenever he's on it with me like I feel like he has a more logical and like response that I feel like people can relate to. Interesting. So I do think like it would be very interesting for you to do it with like a couple. Yeah.

因为我觉得你能同时获得两种

Because I feel like you can get like a take on two kinds of

对。叫什么来着？视角。对。没错。

Yeah. What's it called? Perspectives. Yeah. Right.

是啊。就像同一件事，但两个人可能看法完全不同。对。确实。

Yeah. Like the same situation but two two different people seeing it completely differently. Yeah. Yeah.

嗯。那你最近有什么激动人心的计划吗？其实没有，因为我不太会提前太久规划人生。别人总问‘你五年后想成为什么样？’

Yeah. Okay. So do you have any like exciting things coming up for yourself or? So not really just because I don't plan ahead in my life like too far ahead. People are like oh where do you see yourself in five years?

我总是回答不知道也不在乎。因为我发现成长过程中总在设定目标——‘这年要完成这个’‘那年要做到那个’，高中时我还梦想当外科医生呢，结果显然没成真（看看现在的我就知道了）。每次设定远期目标后都会失望，比如搬到旧金山时，我决心要找份企业工作让吉米不用再资助我，结果被30多家公司拒绝，一年后只能做兼职。后来我意识到，给自己设定过于超前的宏大期望总会落空，这对心理健康无益。现在我更倾向制定月度目标，再看一年后的自然发展——毕竟未来永远充满未知。

I'm always like I don't know, I don't care. Because like I've noticed that growing up I always did that, I'm like I wanna do this by this year, this by this year, I thought I was gonna be like a surgeon, like that's what I wanted to do in high school you know and then I obviously didn't because look at me but like and then every time I would do that I would be like okay I'm gonna because when I moved to SF yeah I was like I'm gonna get a corporate job so Jimmy doesn't have to support me anymore, got rejected for like 30 different jobs and then I was like it's been a year and I don't have a job so I got like a part time job. And then I just like realized every time I try to set too big of an expectation for myself too far ahead like I always get let down. And I just feel like it's not healthy for me and I'd rather make these monthly goals for myself then see where I am in a year. Because like you never know what's gonna happen like ever.

所以我告诉自己：虽然计划明年要做XYZ，但未来几个月会发生什么谁说得准呢？因此除非是一两个月内的事，否则我从不轻易承诺什么。

So that's what I told myself like you know I was planning on doing x y and z next year but I really don't know what's gonna happen in like the next few months. Right. So that's why like I just, I don't ever say anything unless it's like within like a month or two.

要说疫情教会了我们什么，那就是任何突发事件——比如大流行——都可能彻底改变你未来几年，甚至整个人生轨迹。

I mean I guess if COVID taught us anything it's that yeah, it's literally any, you know like a pandemic could hit, could change the course of your, the next couple years for you. Yeah. Or your whole life,

没错。

you know.

你用什么规划工具吗？比如Notion？我跟你正相反，以前总是活在当下，很少考虑未来，最多规划一两年。但现在我也不再详细规划未来几年的生活蓝图了。

Are you like a Notion planner, like? So opposite of you, I was always like very in the moment, not really looking ahead to the future. Maybe as far as I would go is like a year or two, right? Okay. But I think now I I don't plan, like map out, you know, how the next couple years of my life is gonna look like.

事情不是那样的。但我确实认为，相比过去，我现在更倾向于前瞻性思考了。嗯。好吧。这仅仅是因为我意识到，至少对我来说，如果我没有那个更大的个人目标、终极梦想或其他什么，就很容易偏离轨道或失去动力，所以这对我来说是一种自我约束的方式。

It's not like that. But I do think more like, I'm I'm much of a forward thinker now than I was back then, I will say. Mhmm. Okay. And that's only because I realized that if, at least for me, if I don't have that bigger purpose for myself, that bigger end goal or dream or whatever, then it's so easy for me to fall off track or not feel motivated, so for me it's a way to keep myself like in check.

对对对对

Yeah yeah yeah yeah

哦，这很有道理，非常有道理，是的。

oh that makes sense, that makes a lot of sense, yeah.

但我理解设定月度目标的做法，因为我觉得两者需要平衡。确实，我认为不应该只规划未来而在日常生活中过度牺牲，但同样也不应该完全忽视未来，过着‘及时行乐’的生活，你懂我的意思吗？那样也不实际，所以我觉得适合你的、能帮你保持正轨的方式才是最好的，毕竟每个人的工作方式不同。

But I get the whole thing with doing the monthly goals because like, I think you need a balance of both yeah you know for sure I don't think you should only be planning for the future and like sacrificing so much in the day to day but then at the same time I don't think you should like completely disregard the future and like live like YOLO lifestyle, you know what I mean? Yeah that's not practical either so I feel like whatever works for like you and your I guess what's gonna help you keep stay on track yeah and then because everyone works differently.

我曾非常努力想成为那种子弹笔记达人。但我做不到。天哪，YouTube上每个人都在做这个，我虽然很喜欢看，但一开始尝试就感到不堪重负。我就想，好吧，但是……

I tried so hard to be like the bullet journal girl. I can't do that. Oh my gosh dude, everybody on YouTube was doing it and I was like I really like watching these but the minute I start, I'm just like really overwhelmed. I'm like okay but

比如，如果我不想做这个怎么办？你懂我的意思吗？我就觉得，我再也坚持不下去了。是的。不行。

like what if I don't wanna do this? You know what I mean? I'm just like I'm like I can't do this anymore. Yeah. No.

我永远做不了子弹笔记。首先，我没有艺术细胞。我也是。是的。完全没有。

I can never do bullet journaling. First of all, I'm not like artistic Me neither. Yeah. Yeah. At all.

而且，我宁愿直接买一本已经规划好的日程本，我只需要填写内容就行。

And yeah, I would rather just buy a planner that has everything laid out for me and I'll just I'll fill it in.

我完全一样。我室友现在就在做子弹笔记，我看着就觉得，哇，这看起来工作量太大了。我知道其中一部分是为了减压。是的。但我想艺术对我来说并不能减压。

I'm exactly the same My roommate's bullet journaling right now and I'm just like Oh wow. I'm like this looks like too much work. And I know part of it is like de stress. Yeah. You know, but I guess like art isn't a de stressor for me.

它反而让你更紧张。我觉得我也会这样，因为如果每一页看起来不如我意或者不一致，我可能会撕掉重来。是的。不过，我尊重……

It stresses you out more. I think it would stress me out too because like if each page doesn't look exactly how I want it or like the same, I'd just rip it out out and start all over again. Yeah. But I mean, respect to

那些真正去做的人是因为，首先，观看这个过程本身就很有趣，因为它展现了极高的才华。他们才华横溢，作品看起来美极了。但我能不能直接买

the people who do do it because like Like that's that's first of all, it's fun to watch because it's super talent. Like they're super talented and it looks so pretty. But can I just like buy

你的作品？比如，你所有的艺术品。从你这里买下来，然后我来填

it from you? Like, all your artworks. Buy it from you and I'll fill

色。对，对，没错。天哪。

it in. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Oh my god.

抱歉有噪音。

Sorry about the noise.

哦，没关系。

Oh, no worries.

这就是住在布鲁克林的常态

This is what happens when you live in Brooklyn

而且还是繁忙的街道上。我也是。所以

on a busy street. Too. So

天啊。这施工声，希望不会越来越响。明显更吵了。算了，好吧。

God. This construction, I hope it's not picking up. It definitely picked up. Whatever. Okay.

嗯，我想今天这期节目时间差不多了。很棒，刚才太精彩了。对，对。

Well, I think that's all the time we have for today's episode. Cool. That was awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

是的，非常感谢你能来。希望将来吉米在的时候我们能再做一期后续。没错。

Yeah. Thanks so much for coming. Hopefully, we can do a follow-up one day with When Jimmy's here. Yeah.

嗯，他大概六月份会在我搬出去之前过来帮我搬家之类的。所以也许我能说服他顺便过来，对，然后一起录个播客。

Well, he's gonna come, like, in June before I move out to help me, like, move and stuff. So maybe I can convince him to, like, come by and Yeah. And podcast it up.

对对对。

Yeah yeah yeah.

对于那些想了解更多关于你的人，他们可以在哪里找到你呢？哦，我的YouTube频道就是hannahlee。嗯。然后我的Instagram是hannahwiley。我就这些了。

And for those who want to, I guess, find more of you, where can they find you? Oh, my YouTube channel is just hannahlee Mhmm. And then my Instagram is hannahwiley. That's all I have.

好的。酷。然后大家也可以在Instagram上找到我，账号是estherys，两周后我会再上线。拜拜。

Okay. Cool. And then you guys can also find me on Instagram estherys, and then I will tune in again in two weeks. Bye. Bye.