510 | 带数字的卡片（又称67）| 设计讨论

我认为这确实有影响。

I do think that makes a difference.

而且我特别喜欢《Take Time》中的这个设计。

And and I loved that aspect in Take Time.

那个游戏的一半牌都是这样。

Well, that one was half the cards.

我在想还有没有其他这样的游戏。

I'm trying to think if there are other games.

嗯，我想最典型的例子就是《Mind》了。

Well, I guess the mind is the the biggest example.

比如，你有从1到100的牌。

Like, you have cards one to 100.

对吧。

Right.

每人只能拿到一张牌。

You only get one card each.

一和二。

One and two.

这会比原本的情况难得多。

It's gonna be a lot harder than it would have been otherwise.

是的。

Yes.

我喜欢一些牌不在其中，也许这正是我喜欢《秋日机器人》之类游戏的部分原因。

I do like some of the cards not in, and and maybe this is just like part of what I also like about Autumn of bots and things like that.

我喜欢未知的感觉。

I like not knowing.

甚至当我第一次玩《漫威冠军》并使用新角色时，我也从不翻看他们的牌或牌组来看他们的牌组构成。

And even when I played Marvel Champions for the first time with a new character, I would never look through their cards or their deck to see what their stick was.

我喜欢在翻牌时感到惊喜，有时这会导致糟糕的体验。

I love being surprised as I flipped over the cards, and sometimes it led to bad experiences.

但很多时候，我发现这种惊喜感或某种特质让游戏对我而言更好。

But a lot of times, I found that that shock value or that whatever made it better for me.

所以我想这里面有几个问题。

So I guess there's a couple questions in there.

第一个，关于特殊卡牌。

Number one, about special cards.

第二个，你是更喜欢知道所有卡牌都会出现，还是希望有一些随机组合？

And number two, do you like it better when you know all the cards are gonna be in there?

或者你想要某种随机的组合？

Or do you want some kind of random assortment?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，关于特殊卡牌这一点，除了这些简单活动游戏的基础数量外，很多游戏在你准备好了之后加入特殊卡牌，以增加复杂性或难度。

I mean, I think a lovely thing about the special card thing, like going beyond just basic numbers for these kind of straightforward activity games, is that a lot of the games add in the special cards when you're ready or to have a more complex game or to have a more, you know, difficult game.

我的意思是，很多这样的设计都是受到贝拉特罗和类似游戏的启发。

I mean, there's a lot of these things spurred on by Bellatro and those kind of games.

现在正涌现出一大批类似扑克但更丰富的游戏。

There's a whole subset of like poker, but more games coming out right now.

扑克当然比单纯的数字排序要复杂得多，但很多时候它仍然是一种以数字为基础的游戏。

And poker, of course, has more going on than just like ordering numbers, but it's still pretty like number based thing a lot of the time.

而且，像那些游戏一样，我们之前不喜欢的是哪一个？

And yeah, like a lot of those games, like what was the one that we didn't like?

这又让我们想起了更多我们讨厌的游戏。

This brings up more games we hate.

黑帮。

The gang.

那不就是它的名字吗？

Wasn't that what it was called?

黑帮。

The gang.

是的。

Yeah.

顺便说一下，Which 是杰米·施泰格迈尔最喜欢的游戏之一。

The Which by the way is one of Jamie Stegmeyer's like favorite games.

这说明人们看待游戏的方式各不相同。

So it goes to show you that like people view games differently.

确实如此。

They do.

确实如此。

They do.

也许他也喜欢《Take Time》。

Maybe he likes Take Time too.

但话说回来，《The Gang》这个游戏，如果你还记得的话，你只是在玩一个非常基础的东西，就是试图整理牌组，这有点像数字游戏，你在给手牌排序。

But, yeah, the gang, you know, if you remember, you're just playing, like, this very basic thing where you're trying to organize like, that that's kinda number like, you're numbering the hands.

对吧？

Right?

从最好的手牌到最差的手牌，但这些手牌本身是由数字牌组成的。

Best to worst hand, but those hands themselves are made up of numbered cards.

但别忘了《Take Time》。

But then take not take time.

取时间这个概念一直萦绕在我脑海里。

The take time is just taking over my mind.

它占用了我的时间。

It's taking my time.

你知道，那群人有一些小的奖励卡，你可以翻转它们来让游戏变得更难或更容易，加入一些特殊规则。

The gang, you know, had those, like, little bonus cards that you could flip to make the game harder or easier and add in, like, special rules.

或者对于一些其他最近的扑克类游戏，比如我预览过的即将推出的加布·巴雷特单人系列中的《Drawing Dead》。

Or for some of the other, like, recent poker ones, like, Drawing Dead is one that I previewed that's upcoming from, you know, the Gabe Barrett solo series.

那又是什么呢？

And then what's that?

真是超值的优惠。

Oh, hell of a deal.

彼得，我真的很期待你会非常喜欢这一款。

I'm really excited that you might like this one a lot, Peter.

《Hell of a Deal》很快就会寄给我一个原型。

Hell of a deal is coming to me soon, a prototype.

有一款即将推出的《 smirk 和 dagger 》游戏。

There's an upcoming smirk and dagger game.

这是另一款类似合作玩法的扑克游戏，但更偏向于游戏性。

That's another, like, cooperative play poker but more game.

我还喜欢，你知道的，甚至《弑君》这款游戏。

And I like you know, or even a regicide.

《弑君》一开始可以当作纯粹的数字游戏来玩，但之后你可以加入更特别的能力。

Like, regicide can at first be played, like, as just a straight up number like thing, but then you can add a more special power.

所以我喜欢这些特殊能力，但我也得说，有时候在《帮派》里，它们并不怎么有趣。

So I I like the special powers, but I will say sometimes, like in the gang, they aren't very interesting.

当然。

So Sure.

有时候我甚至希望，如果这些特殊能力设计得不够酷、不够有趣，那就干脆只保留数字好了。

Sometimes I almost wish that it was just the numbers if you do a bad job of making the special powers cool and fun.

我和你想法一致。

I'm on the same page.

我觉得，当你加入太多特殊能力时，它在我心目中就不再仅仅是一个只有数字的卡牌游戏了。

I feel like at some point, when you put so many special powers in, then it no longer, in my mind, becomes a game of just cards with numbers.

是的。

Sure.

好吧。

So yeah.

我的意思是，这条界限很难划清。

I mean, that's a hard line to draw.

我的意思是，你总得有些东西在发生。

I mean, you have to have something going on.

它不能只是单纯的数字卡牌。

It can't just be cards with numbers.

我的意思是，它也可以是。

I mean, it can.

我们确实已经命名过很多只靠数字卡牌就能玩得起来的游戏。

We we've certainly named many games that make just cards with numbers work.

确实如此。

They do.

而且它们总是有一些

And they always have some kind of

吸引人的地方。

a hook to them.

对吧？

Right?

比如，无论是花色还是其他什么元素。

Like, whether it's suits or whether it's something else going on.

现在，这些游戏通常也更快。

Now, these games tend to be quicker too.

我无法想象你会希望这样的游戏持续超过十分钟到十五分钟。

I can't imagine that you'd want a game like this going on more than, like, ten to fifteen minutes.

但这并不意味着你不会连续玩上五到六次。

Now that doesn't mean you won't play it, like, five or six times in a row.

大脑是一个很好的例子。

The mind is a great example.

比如，完整的大脑游戏玩起来可能需要半小时以上，但每一手本身都会非常非常快。

Like, the full game of the mind probably can take up to half an hour plus when you play it, but each individual hand itself is gonna be very, very quick.

是的。

Yes.

尤其是刚开始的时候，越到后面，时间就越长。

Especially early on, and then the later you go, the the longer it takes.

但总的来说，我觉得这可能已经接近我希望这类游戏持续时间的极限了。

But even in general, I think that's maybe pushing the limit of how long I'd want one of these games to take.

我觉得当我们玩像《Sail》这样的游戏时，那种跟牌类游戏有点像，对我来说，这部分可能有点乏味，我不确定。

I think when we play games like Sail, which was kind of a trick taker, maybe that was the part for me that that fell a little flat is that I don't know.

我想也不是因为那一款游戏的每一手也很快。

I guess not because each hand is very quick in that one too.

只是整体感觉，也许也不是这样。

It was just the overall, like so maybe not.

也许这其实对再来说影响不大

Maybe maybe that doesn't affect Again, a lot

我们谈论的许多游戏，核心活动其实就是玩数字或整理数字。

of the games we're talking about were, like, just playing numbers or organizing numbers as the core activity of the game.

我认为对于这类游戏，保持轻松快速很重要，因为它们本身并不足够有趣或富有谜题性。

I think you need to keep it pretty breezy and quick for most of these kind of things because it's not inherently interesting or puzzly enough.

而且通常你的选择会越来越少，比如你手中有一组牌，或者你需要理清某些东西、把东西排序，你最终总会把它们处理完。

And also like usually your options are decreasing, like if you've got a hand or if you've got something to figure out or you've got things to get in order, like you're gonna eventually go through them.

比如‘炸弹拆除’，基本上就是我手上有按顺序排列的数字，我得找出其他数字并把它们配对。

Like bomb busters is basically I have numbers in order and I gotta find the other numbers and match them up.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

这不是牌，而是方块。

It's not cards, but it's tiles.

而且，是的，随着你找到越来越多的数字，手牌会变得越来越清晰，但也逐渐失去吸引力和趣味性。

And, yeah, like, the hand kinda becomes more clear and kind of less exciting and interesting as you find more of those numbers.

对吧？

Right?

因为就像，你知道的，最终你的整个棋盘都完成了，而其他玩家可能还在处理他们的部分，但你却再也轮不到行动了。

Because it's like, well, you know, and eventually your entire board is completed and maybe other players are still figuring out their stuff, but you don't even get a turn anymore.

我想这也 inherently 涉及一些记忆成分。

I guess there's an inherent memorization to that too.

对吧？

Right?

就像，没错，随着游戏进行，你掌握的信息越来越多，但这只有在你记得之前出过什么牌，或者有某种方式能揭示信息时才成立。

Like, yes, you have more information as you go along, but that's only if you remember what's already been played or if there's some kind of a way of it being revealed.

我觉得《Bombbusters》做得不错，你知道的，当你配对成功后，那些牌就会消失。

And I think Bombbusters does a good job of like, you know, when you make your pairs or whatever, they go away.

当你标记哪些数字已被消除时，你还可以标记哪些猜测是正确的。

When you get to mark which numbers are gone, you get to mark like if things have been guessing correctly.

你看，这样一来，基本上就几乎没有记忆成分了，除了人们之前说过的话。

See, then they definitely there's basically almost no memory element, guess, besides like what people said.

比如我说‘这是11吗？’，却没有线索告诉我我曾经说过‘这是11吗？’。

Like if I said is that an 11, nothing tells me I said is that an 11.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

但这是对的。

But it's Right.

我觉得这类游戏，当然也包括传统的纸牌游戏，从非常轻度的，比如战争，到极其复杂的，比如桥牌，跨度很大。桥牌本身我觉得并不算特别复杂，但人们确实把它发展成了一种生活方式游戏；而我觉得，应该没人会组个‘战争’游戏团体来玩吧。

I guess these games, I mean, if you're going to certainly traditional card games as well in this category, can go from very super duper light, like war, to something that is ridiculously complex, like something like bridge, where you have certain rules that you play with or what I mean, bridge in and of itself, don't think is overly complex, but people have definitely made lifestyle games out of bridge, whereas I don't think there's anybody who has a war game group that they play.

我这么说，但肯定 somewhere 在某个地方真有人在玩战争游戏。

I mean, I say that, but I'm sure there is actually somewhere in this

我在PAX上和莉兹·戴维森玩过一款游戏。

That game I played at PAX with Liz Davidson.

她教我和哈里森玩的，这是一款曼尼·特伦布莱设计的游戏，试图让‘战争’变得更刺激、更有策略性。

She taught it to me and Harrison, but it's a it's a Manny Tremblay game that, like, tries to make war more exciting and more strategic.

在我看来，它基本上失败了，但至少它尝试了。

I think it mostly fails in my opinion, but it tried.

这是不一样的。

It's it's it's different.

对。

Right.

我们来谈谈另一种类型的东西吧，因为之前提到的大多数游戏都是数字上升或下降的类型。

We and and, you know, just to talk about a different kind of thing, because most of the games we've mentioned are like number go up, number go down.

我知道这不完全一样，但‘我的牌比你的大’、‘我的数字比你的大’这种概念在大量游戏中都是固有的机制，我觉得这种机制通常非常有趣。

I know it's not quite the same, but just the whole concept of my card is bigger than your card, my number is bigger than your number is kind of an inherent mechanic in tons of games and I think is often very fun and interesting.

你知道，战争牌可能是这种机制最基础的体现。

You know, war is probably the most basic distillation of this.

比如，我翻一张牌，你翻一张牌，谁的大谁就赢走两张牌。

You know, like, I flip a card, you flip a card bigger, I win both cards.

但你知道，有多少格斗游戏、战斗游戏或者竞标游戏都是这样呢？

But, you know, how many fighting games and how many combat games or how many bidding games?

你之前提到过一个竞标游戏。

You had you had mentioned a bidding game earlier.

你知道，整个想法是，我手里有一些数字，比如原始数值。

You know, like the whole idea, like, I have numbers in my you know, something like raw.

我手头有一些可用的数字。

I have, like, numbers available to me.

你也有可用的数字。

You have numbers available to you.

我什么时候该用我的大数字？

When do I wanna use my big numbers?

我什么时候该用小数字来赢过你的数字？

When do I use wanna use my small numbers to beat your numbers?

当我的数字逐渐减少时，这些数字的相对价值如何变化？

As my numbers dwindle, what's the relative value of numbers?

我更应该关注什么呢？

And like, what am I gonna care more about?

我觉得这些东西对这么多游戏来说都至关重要。

Like, I I think that stuff is so core to so many games.

而且，是的，它涵盖了大量不同类型的游戏和众多机制。

And yes, like, it covers a ton of different types of games and ton of mechanics.

但我觉得，有一个基本有趣且吸引人的点，就是我有10，而你有8。

But there is something I think just elementally fun and interesting of like, I have a 10 and you have an eight.

认命吧。

Suck it.

你知道的？

You know?

没错。

Right.

而且这很有趣，因为我以前从来没想过‘原始’这个概念，但我确实觉得‘原始’比大多数竞标游戏更符合这个类别。

Well, and that's interesting because I never thought about raw, but I do think raw fits in this category more than most bidding games.

关键是，这些数字都没有重复。

And the the point is that there's no duplicates of numbers.

对吧？

Right?

在正常的竞标游戏中，如果我一开始有3美元，你也有3美元，而你出价1美元并赢得了这次竞标，现在你只剩下2美元，而我还有3美元，这对我来说不如我们一开始就拥有不同的数字那么有趣。

Where if I'm doing a normal bidding game and I have $3 and you have $3 to start the game, and now you've bid a dollar and you won that bid, now you only have $2 and I have three, that's less inherently interesting to me than if we always have just different numbers.

你的某些数字比我的好，我的某些数字也比你的强。

And some of your numbers are better than some of mine, and some of mine are better than yours.

也许你的大多数数字都比我好，但我拥有那个最大的数字，它会是最棒的牌，最值得出的牌，或者说是自动获胜牌之类的。

Maybe you have most of your numbers are better than most of mine, but I have the big one number that is gonna be the best card and the bet the best thing to play, or or the, you know, automatic winner or whatever.

是的。

Well, yeah.

而且我喜欢这些相对数值随着牌的打出而不断变化。

And and I love that those relative values change as things get played.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Yes.

因为另一款竞标游戏正在出售。

Because another game, another bidding game is for sale.

我们都喜欢这个。

We both love that one.

而且，所有的数字都是唯一的。

And again, they're all unique numbers.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

你说得对。

You're right.

卡片上 literally 就是数字，除了游戏开始时你拥有的钱，这很有趣。

Literally numbers on cards except for the money you have at the beginning of Interesting.

The

The

比如，我很喜欢这个游戏里30本身具有很高的价值，但当你出牌时，取决于场上已有的牌和其他人出的牌，它的价值可能完全被浪费了。

Like, I love in that game that a 30 has a lot of inherent value, but depending on what's out there when you play it and what other people play when you play it, like, its value could be completely wasted.

你知道的。

You know?

或者，原始的，类似的情况。

Or, raw, same kind of thing.

当你拥有最高的太阳牌时，你拥有如此大的力量，但这也给你带来了压力。

Like, you have such power with when you have the highest sun available, but it also puts pressure on you.

你什么时候会浪费它呢？

Like, when are you gonna waste it?

一旦你用了，你的资本会下降多少？你的优势会如何转移？

And once you do, how much does your capital decline and how much does your power shift?

所以我喜欢这种机制。

So I love those kind of things.

这些都只是基于数字的，大数字对小数字。

And those are all just number based and big number versus small number.

你说得对。

And you're right.

这些独特的数字以及它们在玩家可用性中的排序和层级关系真的很酷。

The the unique numbers and kind of the ordering and hierarchies within that with them being available to players is really cool.

这也让我想到《指环王》中的对决，或者老版幻想飞行公司的《权力的游戏》战斗系统，你们各自在战斗中出数字来决定战斗结果。

It also makes me think of something like Lord of the Rings confrontation or the old Fantasy Flight Game of Thrones combat system where, like, you each have numbers to play in combats to help resolve combats.

是的。

Yep.

但你的数字资源会逐渐减少。

But your supply of numbers diminishes.

然后突然间，你就只能让山姆去对抗尸罗，而你手里只剩下一个2。

And then like suddenly you're stuck with like Sam fighting Shelob and all you have is a two.

你知道，你肯定会死。

Know, you're gonna totally die.

我觉得这类数字系统非常令人兴奋。

I find those those kind of number systems really exciting.

他们还设计了其他机制，比如影子阵营的数字要高得多，但自由阵营的卡牌上拥有特殊能力，我觉得是这样，这让他们即使整体实力较弱，也仍有胜算。

And they had different things also where like the shadow had much higher numbers, but the free folk had like special powers on their cards, I feel like, or something like that where like they actually stood a chance even with inherently less power overall.

是的

Yeah.

你还可以通过特殊能力来增加数字。

And you could do things like add to a number for special powers.

这个讨论比我原本想的要发散很多。

So I this discussion went in a lot different directions than I thought.

我原本只是想着卡牌游戏，但我确实觉得这个机制很有趣，我们可以从这些游戏中汲取灵感，应用到更大的游戏中，比如我们之前谈到的《Ra》，还有我们提到的许多战棋游戏。

I I was originally just thinking of card games basically, but I do think that this is an interesting mechanic, and I think we can take something from these games and introduce them to much bigger games like we talked about with Ra, and we talked about I mean, even a lot of the battle game.

他们用这些带有数字的卡牌进行出牌。

They play with these cards with numbers, where you're playing them down.

想想《星球大战：叛乱》。

You think of Star Wars rebellion.

你知道，卡牌上都有数字。

You know, you have cards with numbers on them.

不过，在后期的战斗系统中，他们加入了大量特殊能力和类似机制。

Now, again, in the later combat system, they introduce a lot of special powers and things like that.

所以，与传统的数字卡牌相比，这里的文字内容多得多，但归根结底，你是在用带有数字的卡牌来决定攻击的相对威力。

So there's a lot more text than I would traditionally think of with that cards with numbers, but it I mean, what it boils down to is you're playing cards with numbers on them to get a relative power for your attack.

实际上，那个游戏里，卡片可能给你的是骰子之类的机制。

Actually, with that one, I think that the cards gave you dice or whatever.

所以也许这并不是个问题。

So maybe that's not a problem.

是的。

Yeah.

我也记不清了。

I don't remember either.

好长时间没玩过那个游戏了。

Haven't played that game in a while.

但有很多游戏的战斗系统都是这样设计的。

But there are a lot of games where the combat is done that way.

《Scythe》就是这样的。

Scythe is done that way.

你设定攻击力，但同时也会从手中打出一些只标有数字的卡牌，这些数字是隐藏的，你并不知道它们具体是多少，也不知道自己是否已经打过这些牌。

You dial in power, but then you also play cards from your hand that just have numbers that, you know, is hidden, you know, what those numbers are, whether you've been playing them or not.

我觉得《Scythe》只是单纯设定攻击力。

I think Scythe is just dialing in.

不是的。

No.

你 definitely 可以加入一些卡牌。

There's there's cards you can definitely add in.

就是你获得的那些力量卡牌。

The the power cards that you get.

是一到五，我想是这样的。

Number one to five, I think they are.

哦，原来如此。

Oh, okay.

然后我认为，你还可以在战斗中额外加入一到两张这样的卡牌。

And then you could add one or two of them, I believe, to your combat as well.

我们得重新看看了，因为杰米刚宣布了这个游戏，你听说过这个吗？

We'll have to review it now that Jamie's announced his like have you heard about this game?

它有点像《Scythe》，还有我们之前特别喜欢的那款游戏叫什么来着？

It's like Scythe and what's the other one that we liked a lot?

那款游戏是同一个世界观的吗？

That was like in the same world?

是的。

Yeah.

比如一个玩家玩《Expeditions》，另一个玩家玩《Scythe》，但他们之间会互相竞争。

Like like one player is playing Expeditions and one player is playing Scythe, but they like compete.

什么？

What?

老兄，我知道这听起来很奇怪，但我认为就是这样。

Dude, I know, but it I think that's what it is.

我是说，我也不太确定，但我觉得，他如果同时拥有《Scythe》和《Expeditions》，就可以让它们互相对战。

Like, I don't really know, but I think, like, he owned Scythe and Expeditions, then he could, like, fight each other in them.

有意思。

Interesting.

好吧。

Alright.

不错。

Cool.

就是这样。

There you go.

卡牌、数字、更大的。

Cards, numbers, bigger.

不。

No.

我的意思是，

I I I mean,

我要说的一点是，也许这正是Take Time让你不太满意的原因，因为我确实觉得这些游戏很多——等等，这也不对。

the one thing I'll say, and maybe this is part of the reason Take Time didn't sit as well with you, is because I do think a lot of these games well, that's not even true.

我本来想说，每组数字都是独特的，而且你拥有一些我绝对不可能有的东西。

I was gonna say have unique sets of numbers, and the the fact that you have something that I definitely can't have.

但我想即使有花色，有些花色也比其他花色更强，或者你必须跟花色，或者其他规则。

But I guess even when they have suits, like some suits are stronger than others, or you have to stay in suit or whatever else.

而《Take Time》不一样，它每种数字都有两张。

Whereas take time, it's like there's two of each number.

实际上，最近推出的一个非常独特的新游戏是《Take Seven》，你有一张1、两张2、三张3、四张4，而且你不能组成对子。

And actually, one of the most unique games that's come out recently is take seven, where you have one one, two twos, three threes, four fours, and then you can't get pairs.

对吧？

Right?

你只是发到一些牌，如果你拿到对子，就会被踢出这一轮。

You're just dealt cards and you don't wanna get pairs or you get knocked out of the round.

等等。

Wait.

你是在说《Flip Seven》吗？

You're you're talking about flip seven?

翻七。

Flip seven.

有一瞬间，我以为每个游戏都不是‘拿’，彼得。

For a second, was like, every every game is not take, Peter.

拿，拿，拿。

Take take take.

是的。

Yes.

你总是只拿不放。

It's all take with you.

我总是只拿不放。

It's always taken with me.

没错。

That is true.

拿，从不给，彼得。

Take and never give Peter.

你只拿不给。

You take and never give.

但我真的很希望看到一些我们传统的纸牌玩法能被应用到合作类游戏中，最近这种以跟牌为核心的合作游戏越来越多了。

But I I would love to see some of these more traditional ways we do card play taken to either the cooperative genre, which we're seeing more and more with trick takers lately.

对。

Right.

而且就像我说的，所有这些扑克游戏。

And and like I said, all these these poker games.

对。

Right.

而且我觉得，使用普通扑克牌这种整套数字牌的概念在合作游戏中正变得越来越流行，我非常喜欢这一点。

And like I decide using I think there's a lot just the whole like concept of regular deck of numbered cards in co op is becoming more popular, which I love.

对。

Right.

然后还可以把这些非常棒的机制应用到更大的游戏中。

And then also adding those some of these concepts that are really cool to bigger games.

所以把它带到合作游戏和更大的游戏中。

So bringing it to co op and bringing it to bigger games.

让我告诉你一件事。

And let me tell you something.

作为设计师，如果我们在这里进行设计讨论，这几乎是向出版商推销最简单的一款游戏。

As a designer, if we're going to a design discussion here, this is like one of the easiest games to sell to a publisher.

如果他们只需要印刷印有数字的卡片，天啊。

If they just gotta print cards with numbers on them, oh my gosh.

这简直是向出版商推销的绝佳卖点。

Talk about like easy sell to a publisher.

风险非常低。

It's a very low risk.

所以，即使你想自己出版，这也是进入设计领域非常简单的方式。

So even if you wanna self publish something, like, this is a very easy way to get into designing.

所以，如果你想成为设计师，就拿一副扑克牌或者自己制作编号为1到100的卡片，或者拿《思维》之类的牌，看看能不能用它们设计出一款游戏，无论是采用已有的机制，还是创造你自己的新玩法。

So, you know, you wanna be a designer, just grab either a deck of cards or make your own cards numbered one to 100 or grab the mind or whatever else, and see if you can come up with a game with them, either using mechanisms that have already been tried or come up with your own new stuff.

还有很多很棒的点子，我觉得我们甚至还没触及到仅用数字卡片能做的所有可能性。

There's lots of great ideas that and I I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what you can do with just numbered cards.

是的。

Yep.

我们得再做一期关于卡片的播客。

We'll have to have another cards podcast again.

彼得，祝你给这期节目起个好标题。

Good good luck giving a title to this episode, Peter.

六七。

Six seven.

我觉得我们找到了。

I think we got it.

天哪。

Oh my god.

老兄，我们跟人家说过别再说这个了。

Dude, we told people that is gonna stop saying it.

你打算怎么把它融入进来呢？

How are you finding a way to bring it in?

嘿。

Hey.

我没做那六宗罪。

I didn't do six sins.

哦，现在你做了。

Oh, now you did.

现在我做了。

Now I did.

现在你做了。

Now you did.

你说到点子上了。

You got me there.

你赢了。

You got me.

大家。

Everybody.

好了，我们很快再见。

With that, we will see you soon.

别忘了看完后继续关注，了解迈克对数字卡片游戏的空白空白空白空白凝视和盲排排名。

Don't forget to stick stay tuned after to find out Mike's blank blank blank blank stare, blind rankings of cards with numbers games.

哦。

Oh.

我希望希望时间能挤出来。

I hope I hope take time's in there.

第一名。

First place.

这可能是你玩的第一款游戏。

It it might be the first game you get.

是的。

Yeah.

是的

Yeah.

从这里开始。

Where it starts.

好的。

Alright.

好的。

Alright.

我们稍后再聊。

We'll talk to you later.

再见。

Bye.

再见。

Bye.

感谢您再次收听我们的One Stop Co op Shop播客。

Thanks for joining us again for the One Stop Co op Shop podcast.

访问我们的YouTube频道：One Stop Co op Shop。

Check out our YouTube channel at One Stop Co op Shop.

同时，加入我们的Discord频道参与游戏和讨论。

Also, join us for games and discussion on our Discord channel.

你可以在patreon.com/1stop通过Patreon支持我们，或在iTunes上给我们留下评价。

You can support us on Patreon at patreon.com/1stop, or leave us a review on iTunes.

再次感谢，我们下周再见，带来另一个五强榜单。

Thanks again, and we'll see you next week for another top five list.

嘿，迈克。

Hey, Mike.

是的。

Yeah.

来做个盲选排名吧，伙计。

Do some blind ranking, buddy.

我们开始吧。

Let's do it.

这些都是一些带数字的游戏卡片。

So these are all cards with numbers games.

里面有一些特殊卡片。

There are some special cards.

并不一定是从1到100。

It's not just necessarily one to 100.

其中一些卡片是特殊的。

Some of them have some special cards.

好的。

Okay.

不过，是的，我们先从《取时间》开始吧，迈克。

But, yeah, let's start with take time, Mike.

真的吗？

Oh, really?

这个会在你的榜单上排在哪里？

Where would that fall on your list?

我的意思是，这肯定是第五名。

I mean, it's it's gotta be number five.

我不确定。

I don't know.

我们看看你还抽出了什么。

We'll see what else you pulled out.

也许我会后悔这个选择。

Maybe I'll regret that.

好的。

Alright.

所以，花时间，第五名。

So take time, number five.

如果你想了解原因，就去听上周的节目。

And if you wanna find out why, listen to last week's episode.

第四名或者第四名。

Number four or number four.

天啊。

Jeez.

下一个我要拿出来的是思维游戏。

The next game I'm gonna pull out is the mind.

我的意思是，这几乎算不上一个游戏，但确实一直很有趣。

I mean, it's it's barely a game, but it is also consistently fun.

我没法把它评价得特别高。

I can't put it like high high.

我会给它三分。

I'll give it three.

我的评分也是稳稳的三分。

Mine is solid three.

稳稳的三分。

Solid three.

好的。

Alright.

另一个游戏，《The Crew》。

Another the game, The Crew.

我们上周也聊过这个。

We talked about this a lot last week too.

天哪。

Jeez.

你还觉得哪些游戏只是数字游戏？

What other games would you consider just number game?

我觉得我把它排第一应该很安全。

How safe I think I'm pretty safe putting this number one.

我觉得在有限的游戏范围内，没什么能超越《The Crew》。

I I don't think anything else is gonna beat the crew in like a limited set of games.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

那可能是对的。

That that might be true.

那可能是对的，或者你可能会后悔一切。

That might be true, or you might regret everything.

不过我认为你不会后悔留出第四个位置，因为下一个游戏是UNO。

I don't think you're gonna regret leaving four spot open though, because the next game is UNO.

哦。

Oh.

我确实比喜欢《Take Time》更喜欢《UNO》。

I definitely like UNO more than Take Time.

第四名，宝贝。

Four, baby.

UNO也很糟糕，但还挺有趣的。

UNO also sucks, but it's it's kinda fun.

哦，看吧，我讨厌UNO。

Oh, see, hate Uno.

哦，我可能会在一百次里玩一百次取时游戏。

Oh, I I would take I would play Take Time a 100

一百次中的一百次。

times out of a 100 times.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我的意思是，我可能会。

I mean, I might.

尤其是如果我最终能赢取时游戏，那我就会扮演重要角色。

Especially if I can eventually win Take Time, then I would play an important part.

对。

Right.

因为UNO有时候就是玩不完。

Because Uno just doesn't end sometimes.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这才是关键。

I mean, that that is the big thing.

它正在流行。

It's going.

因为比如说，我儿子去参加一个生日派对时，得到了这种作为派对小礼物的游戏。

Because like, well, I I will say, my son got, like, as a party like stuffer for, a birthday party he went to.

他得到了一款叫《Snailed It》的游戏。

He got this game called snailed it.

这基本上就是UNO，但每个人全程都参与其中，轮次也不会很长。

That is basically UNO, but everyone's engaged the whole time, and the turns don't take very long.

所以如果他用这个替代的话，

So I if he replaced Well,

而且你也不会手里攒到50张牌。

and you don't end up with 50 cards in your hand

确实不会。

You do not.

我孩子们觉得这特别好笑。

Which my kids think are hilarious.

哦，这太有趣了。

Oh, that's so funny.

我的意思是，他们也没错。

I mean, they're not wrong.

这确实很好笑。

It is hilarious.

然后，哦，我们换手吧。

And then, oh, let's trade hands.

等等。

Wait.

什么？

What?

我现在手里只有一张牌了。

I now have one card in my hand.

他们就说，我

Like, they're like, I

这不是正常的UNO游戏，但这些新版本的UNO，天哪。

don't it's not the normal UNO game, but there's, like, some of these new UNO oh, god.

他们越想加更多愚蠢的规则，就越糟糕。

They just get worse when they try to add more stupidness to them.

不管怎样，我觉得那个是毫不留情。

Anyway, so I think think that one's no mercy.

天哪。

Oh, god.

是的。

That's yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我现在都做噩梦了。

I'm having nightmares now.

总之。

Anyway.

好吧。

Alright.

所以UNO是第四名。

So Uno, you're number four.

所以我们有《Take Time》

So we got Take Time

第五是UNO，第四是《The Mind》排第三，第二名我们马上要说，而《The Crew》排第一。

at five, Uno at four, The Mind at three, number two game is we're about to say, and The Crew at number one.

所以你的第二名游戏，我觉得这可能很适合你，是《Tranquility》吗？

So your number two game, and I actually think this might be right for you, is Tranquility?

原版的Tranquility。

The original tranquility.

原版的Tranquility。

The original tranquility.

是的。

Yeah.

第三名是什么来着？

What was number three again?

《The Crew》。

The crew.

现在。

Now.

或者不是。

Or no.

《The Mind》。

The mind.

《The Mind》。

The mind.

是的。

Yeah.

听起来差不多是这样。

That that sounds about right.

我的意思是，我确实最不喜欢宁静，和即将来临的下降以及上升相比，差距还挺大的，但还是很有趣。

I mean, I I definitely like tranquility one the least by a decent margin compared to the descent, which is upcoming and the ascent, but it's still fun.

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

这确实是正确的顺序。

That that that is that is the exact right order.

彼得，这五款游戏你会怎么排序？

What would your order be for those five games, Peter?

我觉得Uno会排第五？

I guess Uno would be number five?

Uno肯定排第五。

Uno would be number five for sure.

接下来可能是《Take Time》。

Probably Take Time next.

不过《Take Time》和《Tranquility》。

Although that and Tranquility.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这两款游戏可能会

I can see those being

彼此很接近，所以我把《Take Time》排第四，《Tranquility》排第三。

Those being close to each other, like so but I'll I'll put Take Time at four and Tranquility at three.

但随着我更多地玩《Take Time》，排名可能会变动，谁知道呢？

But that could change if as I play take time more both maybe it'll go under, who knows?

当我越玩越多，直到面对最难的任务时，谁知道会怎样？

As I play it more and more and I get to the hardest missions, who knows?

但那样的话，大概就是《Mind》排第二，然后是《Crew》。

But then it'd probably be the mind and then the crew.

不过话说回来，对我来说，这两者也非常接近。

Although again, those two are really close for me as well.

原因不同。

For different reasons.

心灵和团队绝对是第一和第二。

The mind and crew are definitely one and two.

当然。

Absolutely.

比如心灵，可以和任何人搭配，我特别喜欢这一点。

Like the mind, could bring out with anybody and I love that.

团队则必须和特定的组合搭配。

The crew definitely has to be with certain groups.

我确实遇到过一些不太玩捉牌游戏或者不熟悉捉牌游戏的人，一百次里有一百次我都和他们玩。

I've certainly people who don't play a lot of trick takers or don't know trick takers well, a 100 times out of a 100, I play them.

当然，我肯定。

Well, I'm sure.

我肯定。

I'm sure.

我的意思是，这有点像要花时间。

I I mean, it's kinda like take time.

对吧？

Right?

就像，必须经历挫折才能突破这一点。

Like, have to get frustrated to get through that.

而且，你知道，当我教那些不懂吃墩的人玩取时间时，他们也有和你一样的感受，我觉得玩取时间就是这样。

And, you know, when I was teaching the crew to people who don't know trick taking, they felt the same as you felt, I feel like, playing take time.

对吧？

Right?

这本来就不是一种容易掌握的语言，你必须玩数百场，甚至数千场吃墩游戏才能学会。

It's just it's not an easy language to get, and you have to play hundreds, if not thousands of games of trick taking to learn it.

当然。

Sure.

所以我不知道合作模式是不是学习吃墩游戏的最佳方式。

So and I don't know that cooperative is the best way to learn trick taking.

我的意思是，我不确定，老兄。

I mean, I don't know, man.

我会说，我教过我的两个孩子玩《指环王》，因为他们确实做得很好，提供了这种循序渐进的教程任务。

I'll I'll say, like, I've taught both my kids, the crew, and both my kids, Lord of the Rings, because they do a good job of giving you, like, these easing in tutorial missions.

是的。

Sure.

吃墩也可以当作教程任务，没错。

Take time as tutorial missions too, and Yeah.

我们找到了让他们失败的方法。

They're We found ways to fail them.

对。

Yes.

当然。

For sure.

他们确实让你从稍微高一点的难度开始。

They definitely start you a little bit higher difficulty there.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，再次说，crew的思维在顶部，但我还是更倾向于crew。

So again, so the mind of the crew near the top, but I'll give the edge to the crew.

宁静和Take Time，我给宁静更高的评价，而Uno则排在最后，位列第五。

Tranquility and Take Time, given the edge to tranquility for my three four, and Uno with a thud way down at the bottom for me at number five.

天哪。

Oh, man.

好吧。

Alright.

好了，各位，这就是全部了。

Well, there you go everybody.

额外的小彩蛋。

Little bonus.

这些仍然很有趣。

These are still fun.

我们下周再见，来回顾一下某个游戏。

And we'll see you next week for review of something.

哦，也许就是我上周提到的那款瓜类游戏，彼得，因为那款玩起来挺快的。

Oh, maybe that thing I mentioned last week, Peter, that cantaloupe one, because that's pretty quick to play.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这种单次游戏，我也很喜欢点击式冒险游戏。

And I like I like these one offs, and I love point and click adventure.

所以，是的。

So Yeah.

我觉得这肯定很对你的胃口。

I think I think this will be up your alley for sure.

太棒了。

Awesome.

好的。

Alright.

好吧，下周见，我不能循环了，因为我已经结婚了。

Well, see you guys next week, and I can't loop because I'm already married.

那其实真的很不错。

That was actually really good.

不错，反应真快，伙计。

Nice nice quick thinking, buddy.