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创始人常犯的一个毛病，就是事事都想插手，结果反而拖累了整个团队。
One of the issues with founders is they cripple their own team by trying to stay involved in everything.
我觉得这完全是胡说八道。
I think it's absolute bullshit.
这位是多姆，美国籍首席执行官，掌管着The Quality Group——这家品牌集团背后有Raw Nutrition、Bum Energy，还有当下增长最快的几个消费品品牌。
That's Dom, the American CEO inside The Quality Group, a 10 figure brand house behind Raw Nutrition, Bum Energy, and some of the fastest growing CPG players in the game today.
你有多厉害，取决于你最近一次推出的产品，但一旦你的产品进了商店、卖得好，他们就会源源不断地要更多。
You're only as good as the last thing you launch, but once you get into those stores and you do well, they want more product.
他们迫切需要创新。
They're dying for innovation.
只要你能一次次地做到，前景根本看不到头。
If you can deliver on that over and over and over again, there's really no end in sight.
多姆一手操盘了十家公司，每家年营收都是数亿美元级别。
Dom is behind 10 companies doing hundreds of millions of dollars.
在这期节目中，我们深入拆解了支撑这一切的运营系统。
And in this episode, we walk through the operating system powering them all.
有那么几次，我真的想放弃了，一个人坐在房间里哭得稀里哗啦。
There's times where I quite literally wanted to quit, and I was sitting in my room by myself crying my eyes out.
我不会骗你。
I'm not gonna lie to you.
我对这个行业一窍不通，但我一定要在明年之前把它彻底搞明白。
I don't know this industry, but I'm gonna figure it the fuck out before next year.
等到明年一月一号，我要让这产品出现在美国每一个零售店的货架上。
And then next year, when January 1 comes, I'm gonna have this shit in every fucking door in America.
好了，各位。
Alright, guys.
到这期节目结束时，你们会清楚看到Dom是怎么当上这家17亿美元控股公司——Quality Group的CEO的，我们还会深入聊聊他旗下的其他公司。
By the end of this episode, you guys are gonna see exactly how Dom operates as the American CEO of a $1,700,000,000 holding company, Quality Group, and we're going get into all of his other portfolio companies.
Quality Group旗下有Bum Energy和Raw Nutrition。
Under The Quality Group is Bum Energy and Raw Nutrition.
在消费品领域，我们还有Cadence和3D Energy。
On the CPG side, we also have Cadence and 3D Energy.
在健康与养生领域，我们有Relive、Revive、Eterna，还有他新做的项目Onside。
On the health and wellness side, we have Relive, Revive, and Eterna, and his new project, Onside.
如果你坚持看到最后，就会看懂Dom的运作模式，明白他是怎么在这么高的层级上做事的。
If you guys stay to the end, you guys are gonna get all of the pattern recognition and understand how Dom operates at such a high level.
咱们现在就开始吧。
Let's get into it.
那我们来聊聊，Dom在被收购之前和之后，作为运营者有什么不同？
So let's talk about what is the difference between Dom before the deal and after the deal as an operator?
这确实是个很好的问题。
That's actually a really good question.
我几周前在Instagram上发过一篇帖子，讲的就是这个。在Quality Group收购Bum和Raw之前，我是个不错的创始人。
So I kind of, I did an Instagram post on this a couple of weeks ago and before The Quality Group acquired Bum and Raw, I was a really good founder.
我觉得自己当时也算称职的CEO，但自从和CBC、Quality Group合作之后，我想先说明一下，Quality Group是通过CBC收购我们的，但它本身也是一个品牌集团，旗下还有ESN等其他品牌。
I would argue that I was a pretty good CEO, but working with CBC and working with The Quality Group and just so everyone understands The Quality Group is the entity that acquired us through CBC, but it's also a brand house of ESN and more.
所以Quality Group旗下包括ESN、More Nutrition、Raw和Bum。
So The Quality Group is ESN, More Nutrition, Raw and Bum.
所以我们都在这个大旗下。
So we're all under that umbrella.
哈克是Quality Group在欧洲的负责人，你可以这么理解。
And Hake is the European, I guess you could say CEO of the Quality Group.
而我在这里的角色，就相当于哈克在美国的对应职位。
And then I would be The U S equivalent of Hake here.
哈克在消费品领域其实没有太多经验。
And Hake has a ton of experience in not CPG necessarily.
他以前是Ameri Sports的首席执行官。
Used to be the ex CEO of Ameri Sports.
如果你熟悉Ameri Sports，那它旗下就有Arcterix、Solomon这些品牌。
If you're familiar with Ameri Sports, it's like Arcterix, Solomon, all those brands.
而且。
And
两者的运营、执行和战略规划水平，完全不在一个档次上。
it's just a very, very different level of operation and execution and strategic planning.
我觉得，像我们这种实干型的创始人，真正敢闯敢拼的创业者，千万别陷在细枝末节的计划里。
I think that as founders that are like movers and shakers and just like real true gritty entrepreneurs, don't ever get into the weeds of a planning.
我们确实在规划，现在就已经在规划2028年了。
Like we plan, we're planning for 2028 right now.
以前我根本不敢想，自己会把计划做得这么靠前，但我们现在规划的精细程度、预测的准确度，直接带来了业务的增长和盈利能力的提升，我亲眼见证了这一点。
So imagine I never in my wildest dreams would think that I would be that far ahead in planning anything, but the granularity in which we plan and the way we forecast and the way we predict now, I've seen it directly correlate to the, not only the profitability, but just the overall growth of our business.
刚开始的时候，确实挺吓人的。
And it was daunting at first.
以前我最讨厌干这些事，那时候我就是个冲锋陷阵的创业者，爽是爽，但总忽略一些细节，而这些小细节积累起来，影响可大了。
These were the tasks that I hated doing because as an entrepreneur before, like I was kind of like running gun, you know, and it was so fun to do, but you miss the little things and the little things adding up make a big difference.
有了这次收购，背后有CBC撑着，我最感激的就是他们给了我一个装满工具的背包。
So having that acquisition and having CBC behind us, what I really loved about it more than anything was I tell everyone they gave me this backpack full of tools.
现在无论我走进哪个会议室，面对哪个团队，我都能随时掏出需要的工具，而这些，以前我根本就没有。
So when I go into a room and when I go into an organization, I have this ability to pull out whatever I need to be successful that I necessarily didn't have before.
这不只是资金，是方方面面的全套支持。
And it's not just capital, it's everything.
是人脉，是引荐。
It's relationships, it's introductions.
当我需要招人时，只要说我们跟他们有合作，就能请到前宝洁、前联合利华的人，以前我根本不可能请到这些人才。
It's if I need to hire somebody being able to say that we're partnered with them has been, you know, it's given us the ability to hire, you know, ex P and G guys, ex Unilever guys, where before I would have never been able to bring those people over.
这其实是运营上的卓越。
It's really operational excellence.
以前我觉得大多数创业者就像拼命三郎，创始人更像是初级CEO。
So before I feel like most entrepreneurs are like, kind of like hustlers, the founders, and kind of like these junior CEOs.
但当你开始跟这类人、跟私募股权的人交流，你会发现，核心就是运营的精细化。
But when you start talking to people like this and PE, it's just operational excellence.
没错。
Yeah.
我觉得过去这一年，是我人生中学到最多的一段经历。
Like I would argue that the last year of my life has been one of the greatest learning experience in the world.
最不可思议的是，我根本不知道自己不知道什么。
And the crazy part is, is I didn't know what I didn't know.
那时候我以为自己已经是最好的CEO和创始人了。
So at the time I thought I was the best CEO, best founder I could be.
但当你走进这些场合，现在我们所在的这些地方，我反而成了最不起眼的那个。
And then when you get into these other rooms and quite literally the rooms we're in now, we're the small, I'm the smallest person in these rooms.
这就像给你当头一棒：第一，别太自以为是，你不知道的东西多着呢；第二，前方还有更多可能性等着你，对吧？
And it's like, it's a reality check of one, like chill out, like you don't know everything you don't know, but two, like there's so much more to come, right?
我以前觉得我们在运动营养领域已经是老大了。
Like I thought we were like the kings of sports nutrition.
可现在回头看，真是吓一跳。
And then when I look at it now, I'm like, holy smokes.
我之前完全想错了。
Like I was thinking about this all wrong.
我得把这当成一门正经生意来看，不只是运动营养，这里还有大片空白等着我们去开拓。
Like I need to look at this as a true business, not just a sports nutrition business, but there's so much more white space here for us to get.
只要我们能真正把运营做到位，未来根本看不到头。
And if we execute and operationally do it very well, there's really no end in sight.
那些你经验最少的场合，反而是最有价值的。
Those are the best rooms where you had the least experience.
如果
If
你能指出一个系统或者惯例吗？比如，从这些人的做法里，你把哪一点带到了你所有的公司中？
you could call out like a system or a ritual, like what's like one big thing that you've seen from these guys that you've brought across all of your kind of companies?
我现在就告诉你。
I'll tell you right now.
我们称之为战略增长模型。
It's, it's, so we would call it, I call it a strategic growth model.
简称SGM。
It's an SGM.
他们管它叫可持续增长模型，但本质上就是把你的业务拆解成四个关键模块，然后在全年周期里用它们来打造品牌。
They call it a sustainable growth model, but it's basically the ability to sit your business down and break it out into four key building blocks that you use to build the brand over the annual cycle.
比如一月份，你会坐下来，和团队一起确定当年最重要的四件事，明确目标，然后制定自上而下、自下而上的执行方案。
So for example, in January, you sit down and you take the four most important things that you're going to lock in on as a team, and you're going to identify those things and you're going to build a top down bottom up approach.
四项关键举措。
Initiatives, four key initiatives.
四项关键举措。
Four key initiatives.
对我们来说，你应该也见过类似的。
So, you know, for us, you know, I'm sure you've seen it.
我们现在正大力推广肌酸产品。
We have a massive push into creatine right now.
我们也在全力整顿核心业务。
We have a massive push into fixing our core business.
还有其他几项重点，其中之一是Bum Energy。
There's a couple other key initiatives, one being Bum Energy.
这些关键模块对应的目标是什么？要怎么实现我们财务和整体绩效上的目标？
And what are the goals associated with those key building blocks to get us where we want to go financially and just overall KPI related?
有些目标可能是门店数量、单店效率，不一定是单纯的总收入，但最终都是为了推动总收入增长。
Some of those may be door counts, velocities, not necessarily always about top line revenue, but getting to that top line revenue.
有明确的截止日期，可以量化。
Quantifiable with an end date in mind.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yep.
这些是每年都会做的。
And you do these annually.
所以今年、明年、后年的SGM目标都不一样。
So your SGM for this year, next year, the following year are all different.
你得提前规划两到三年的发展。
And you're planning out two, three years ahead of yourself.
期间还会定期检查这些目标的进展。
And you're checking in on these goals throughout the time.
不过，制定SGM最棒的地方在于，能剔除所有无用的废话。
But the beautiful part about building out an SGM is you eliminate all the bullshit.
我的意思是，根本不会有没意义的会议。
So what I mean by that is there's no useless meetings.
所有会议都必须直接服务于年度战略目标。
There's no meetings that don't attain directly to the SGM.
让你的团队始终聚焦在核心任务上。
You keep your team straight and narrow.
这些就像是护栏，时刻提醒大家：确实有很多机会，很多事情都值得做。
So there's these, I would call them guardrails that you're staying within and saying, guys, look, there's a lot of opportunity for a lot of things.
但很容易被这些杂事分散注意力，我们已经明确今年必须完成的四件关键事。
And it's very easy to get distracted with all of these things, but we've identified the four things that we know we need to bring home at the end of this year.
如果我们不把这些事定下来并落实，肯定会出问题——说实话，我本人也这样。
And if we don't identify those four things and do it, we're going to have a problem because between us, I'm the same way.
一看到新奇的东西，我就忍不住想凑上去看一眼。
I see a new shiny object and I want to look at it.
对。
Right.
然后你跑到别的地方去，却把真正重要的事给忘了。
And then you go here and you're forgetting about what was important.
等你再回过神来，已经花了两个月追着些没用的东西跑。
And then by the next thing, know, you've been distracted for two months chasing nothing.
等你再回头，已经落后了整整两个月。
And then you go back and you're two months behind.
所以关键是要让整个大团队都清楚：我们到底在做什么？
So really about aligning a big organization on what are we doing?
今年的核心任务是什么？
What are the fundamentals of the year?
我们该怎么实现这些目标？
How are we going to get there?
这种自上而下、自下而上的方式是：高层定目标，基层负责落实。
And then that top down bottom up approach is we give the goals from the top, but then the bottom up approach is building it.
那这个过程需要多久？
Okay, well, does it take?
需要多少员工才够？
How many employees does it take?
需要多少团队、多少库存、多少门店，每个门店的效率是多少？
How much team, how much inventory, how many doors, how much velocity per door?
这些目标看起来很大，但一旦拆解成这样可量化的指标，团队就很容易被激发，因为他们清楚自己该做什么才能达成目标。
And these goals seem large, but then when you break it down into quantifiable goals like that, it's very easy to get your team motivated because they know exactly what they need to do to get it done.
那背后的运营节奏是怎样的？
And then what's the operating rhythm behind that?
是从高管层面，每个核心品牌每周开一次会吗？
Is it like one weekly meeting from a C level perspective in each of these core brands?
你们怎么确保大家一步步推进，最终达成这四个年度大目标？
Like how do you keep people on track to ladder up to this, these four big goals for the year?
这是个好问题。
That's a great question.
我们的方式是这样的，我先以一个品牌为例说明，再讲讲我是怎么在所有品牌中推行的。
So you have the way that we do it and I'll do it intro in one brand and then I'll break it off into how I do it for all my brands.
对吧？
Right?
上周我刚和所有品牌团队开了SGM启动会。
Cause I had the SGM kickoff with all of my brands last week.
在公司高层层面，我们内部是这么定义的。
So internally we identify it on a C suite level.
我们会一起回顾目标，然后我会把我的高管团队当成创业者来看待。
We go over the goals and then I give my C suite, like I consider them entrepreneurs like these guys.
我说‘创业者’是褒义的，因为他们都非常主动积极。
And I use that word in a positive way because they're very proactive.
我觉得高管岗位最独特的地方就在于，不能找只会等指令的人，你得找能解决问题、特别主动的人。
And I think that that's what makes people very unique in those roles in a C suite is like, don't want people who are just taking orders because you need people who are problem solvers and who are very proactive.
所以他们跟创业者非常像。
So they're very similar to entrepreneurs.
只不过他们是为公司做事，而不是为自己创业。
They're just doing it for a company versus their own company.
这些人在每个品牌层面相当于总经理或者迷你首席执行官。
And these are like GMs or mini COs on a per brand perspective under
还有，你的品牌经理，当然还有你的首席运营官、首席财务官，我都需要那些非常主动的人，我一点都不想要反应迟钝的员工。
the And also, you know, your brand managers for sure, even your COO, your CFO, you need people who are very, very, very willing to understand that I don't want anyone reactive in my company.
每个人都必须主动，因为问题在于，如果你总是等到出了事才去应对，那什么时候都太晚了。
Everyone needs to be proactive because the problem is when reactivity is the number one way you identify problems, that's too late every time.
所以我希望人们能提前发现问题，主动出击，把事情搞定。
So I want people to see stuff before it happens, to be proactive about it and to get it done.
作为CEO，我的角色是把这种理念传达给他们，但他们各自带领团队，对他们团队来说，他们就是CEO。
And the idea is me as a CEO, I'm delivering the message to them, but they lead a team and their team, they're the CEO of their team.
对吧？
Right?
所以他们也会把同样的方式贯彻到自己的团队里。
So they're kind of doing the same thing down to their team.
我的目标是，在我所有的组织里，都能一直深入到团队最底层，不管是仓库、财务，还是市场物料团队，甚至是摄影师。
And my goal is in every one of my organizations to be able to walk all the way down to the bottom of that team, whether it be the warehouse, controller, whether it be a marketing kit or a videographer.
他们很清楚我们正在追求的那块基石是什么，因为如果不清楚，就对不上号。
And they know exactly what that building block is that we're chasing because if they don't, it doesn't align.
所有人都得步调一致，比如你们自己在拍内容，如果我们全力推肌酸，但市场部却只盯着新出的蛋白口味，觉得这味道很酷，这没问题。
Everyone needs to be on the same page because if you're shooting their own content, for example, if we're fully focused on creatine at Raw and our marketing department is fully focused on shooting protein because it's a cool flavor that's coming out, that's great.
但我们的重点到底在哪？
But where's our focus?
如果没人对齐，我们开始往那个新蛋白品类偏，那就不是我想走的路。
And if no one's aligned and we started veering off into this cool new protein category, that's not where I wanna go.
我不是说这条路不对，只是这不是我们决定要走的路。
Not saying it's the wrong way to go, but it's not where we wanna go.
这不是我们当初定下的方向。
It's not what we decided to do.
大家最近怎么样？
What's up guys?
希望你们喜欢这期节目。
Hope you guys are enjoying the episode.
多姆积极参与了十多家公司的运营。
Dom is actively involved in 10 plus companies.
所以我们整理了一份免费的PDF，详细拆解了他管理这些公司所用的系统和框架。
So we put together a free PDF, breaking down the systems and frameworks behind how he runs them all.
包括营销、品牌、零售、财务管理、产品开发等各个方面的系统。
Systems for marketing, branding, retail, financial management, product, and more.
链接在下方的描述里。
Link is down below in the description.
继续享受接下来的节目吧。
Enjoy the rest of the episode.
你作为高层，采取的是自上而下的方式，而那位总经理可能在做自下而上的工作，负责管理关键绩效指标和日常运营。那么，从单个CEO及其团队的日常运营，到你作为宏观层面的美国CEO何时介入，这个界限是怎么划分的？
So you at the top, you're doing that top down approach, and then this GM is probably working on the bottom up approach, and then he is managing KPIs and the operating And then what does that operating look like from the single CEOs and their team to then when do you get involved as the kind of macro American CEO?
是的。
Yeah.
在基层，我们通常让他们自己决定与团队沟通的节奏。
So basically the way we do it on the lower level is I let them identify the rhythm of which they want to communicate to their team.
我跟团队的做法是，每周一早上一起复盘财务情况。
So what I do with my team is we have a Monday morning touch base on finance.
真的吗？
Wow.
所以你是说，从每家公司来看，你让首席执行官自己决定。
So you're saying on a per company perspective, you let the CEO.
没错。
Absolutely.
对。
Yeah.
我不会去管他们的团队。
I don't manage their team.
我也不想管他们。
I don't want to manage them.
我不想告诉他们该怎么做事，因为这根本不是我的职责。
I don't want to tell them how to do their job because that's not what my job is.
我的工作不是这个。
My job is not that.
我的工作是让他们放手去做。
My job is to let them do their thing.
如果我插手了，出了问题，90%的情况下他们会怎么做？
And if I get involved in it, then 90% of the time when something goes wrong, what are they going do?
他们会怪我。
They're going to blame me.
他们会说，我想这么干来着。
They're going to say, well, I want to do it this way.
当然，如果真出了问题，我会介入，说：嘿，咱们得调整一下。
Granted, if stuff goes wrong, I'm going to step in and say, Hey, look, we need to realign here.
这行不通，但你得给他们空间，让他们按自己的方式去建设和领导。
This isn't working, but you have to give them the freedom to be able to build and lead the way they need to lead.
说得通。
Makes sense.
所以你每周和他们开一次会，主要是确保他们那些支撑年度目标的关键指标不偏离轨道，对吧？
So you're meeting with them one time a week and they're just let all of those KPIs that ladder up to the one year girl, you're just making sure that they stay on track basically.
没错。
Exactly.
挺有意思。
Interesting.
确实如此。
Yeah.
我特别推崇EOS这套方法。
I'm a big EOS guy.
你有没有读过《牵引力》这本书？
Don't know if you ever read the book traction.
里面讲的是，比如一年目标、三年目标、五年目标这些，
It's pseudosom or you have like these, you know, one year goal, three year goal, five year goal,
而且
and
每个季度，你都会设定一些叫做‘重点任务’的目标。
then each of your quarters, you have something called rocks.
明白了。
Okay.
这些目标都是可量化的，并且与年度目标紧密关联。
And it's quantifiable and it ladders up to the one year goals.
然后每周你都要检查一下，这些任务是推进了还是停滞了。
And then every single week you kind of flip on or off.
你有没有在朝着这些目标稳步前进？
Are you pacing towards those goals?
是的。
Yeah.
差不多吧。
I mean, similar.
我们每周一早上都会开个财务例会。
We have, so we'll have our Monday morning finance touch base.
所以每周一早上，我们回顾的是上一周的目标，对吧？
So Monday morning is the week prior is our goal, right?
CM1 显然是个非常关键的数字，就是总收入，对吧？
CM1 is obviously a very important number and just top line revenue, right?
我们这个月达成了多少？
What are we hitting?
目前进度跟月度目标一致吗？
Are we on track for the month?
每周跟进特别有用，尤其是在我们业务里，比如从 B2B 到 D2C 的转变，还有能量型和粉状产品的切换，波动特别大。
And weekly is great because in our business, especially on the raw bum side, like we have a very big shift from B2B to D2C and energy versus powder.
所以我们的 CM1 经常变动，但每个月都有明确的 CM1 目标。
So our CM1 fluctuates and we have a CM1 target every single month.
CM1 到底是什么？
What is a CM1?
CM1 就是毛利减去商品成本和到岸运费。
CM1 is just your profitability minus cost of goods and inbound freight.
所以如果你在山姆会员店卖很多货，那CM1就会比直接面向消费者低。
So that basically if you're selling a ton of stuff in the Sam's Club, that's a lower CM1 than direct to consumer.
因此要把握节奏，确保CM1达标——CM1是我损益表里最重要的指标。
So pacing and making sure that CM1 is me, CM1 is the most important number on my P and L.
说白了，就是你的总收入。
It's basically just your top line revenue.
其实是净收入。
Well, it's net revenue.
你的渠道促销费用已经扣掉了。
So your trade spend's already taken out.
就是净收入减去商品成本和到岸运费，仅此而已。
So it's your net revenue minus your cost of goods and inbound freight only.
CM2是出库运费，CM3则是销售、管理及行政费用，加上所有营销和其他杂项支出。
So CM2 would be outbound freight and then CM3 is SG and A and all the marketing and all the other things that gets lumped into that.
有意思。
Interesting.
是的
Yeah.
感觉很少有人会这样看待自己的生意。
Feel like that's something that not a lot of people look at their business like that.
全都混在一起了
It's all lumped up into
是的
Yeah.
很多人根本就没分清楚毛收入和净收入，对吧？
I mean, a lot of people also don't ever identify gross to net, right?
毛收入到净收入的差距，往往是损失最大的地方，对吧？
So gross to net is the biggest place where you leak, right?
这包括你的渠道费用、折扣和返利。
That's your trade spend, that's your discounts, that's your rebates.
这些都会在进入利润表之前被扣除。
That's all the stuff that comes out before it hits your P and L in general.
大部分利润损失就发生在这里。
And that's where most margin is lost.
因为它不会体现在损益表上，所以大多数人根本忽略了它。
So because it doesn't hit a P and L, most people forget about it.
等到真要看最终盈利情况时，你却不会回头去查这部分数据来找钱。
And then when it comes time to actually look at the bottom line profitability, you're not looking up there to find more money.
而实际上，最能挖出钱的地方就在这儿。
And that's where you can usually find the most money.
所以在每周的会议上，关键就是看三个数字：CM1、CM2、CM3，从每家公司角度来盯。
So in that weekly meeting, it's just really about if you have to see, you know, three numbers, it's CM one, two, three on a per company perspective.
你根本不可能每周看到CM2和CM3，因为很明显，它们有延迟。
You're never going to see CM2 and CM3 weekly because obviously There's
是的，会有滞后。
a lag
就是这个原因。
on that.
这个是有延迟的。
There's a lag on that.
所以我们每周主要就盯住净收入和CM1，确保在这两件事上保持一致。
So it's really like, we want to just focus on net revenue and CM1 and make sure we're aligned on those two things in those weeklies.
到了月底，我们会对整个月的数据做一次核对，那时候我再看剩下的部分。
And then at the end of the month, we true up the month and that's where I see all the rest of it.
要是让我团队每周都做这个，他们肯定得怨死我。
So it'd be very, my team would hate me if I made them try to do that.
当然，你大概也能有个数，因为这些数字在百分比上波动不大。
You can get an idea obviously, because those numbers don't fluctuate percentage wise much.
但对我而言，每周最重要的还是CM1和净收入。
But you know, CM1 and net revenue are the most important for me on a weekly basis.
那每周你跟谁开会？是每个部门负责人都参加，还是只限财务团队？
So weekly you're speaking to, is it every single department head or finance only?
不是，我每周一主要是跟财务团队沟通。
No, I speak so Mondays is as you finance.
剩下的几天我们还有好几个其他会议。
And then the rest of the week we have multiple other meetings.
我们有个运营会议，还有一个销售与运营计划会议。
So we have an ops meeting, an S and OP meeting.
现在正好就在开呢。
It's literally right now actually.
在那个会上你看到没，
And in that meeting Did you see
大家看他这会儿在干嘛？
what he's doing here guys?
他在这儿白拿游戏，还躲着不开会。
He's getting free game and missing his meetings.
是的。
Yeah.
挺好。
Good.
你没问题。
You're good.
在那个会上，基本上会全面梳理公司里所有正在发生的事情。
So in that meeting, it's basically a high level overview of every single thing happening in the company.
我大多数时候都会参加这个电话会议，但主要就是听一听。
And I get to sit on that call most of the time and I just listen to it.
不过我现在不是每次都参加了。
Now I'm not on it all the time.
我们这个业务的总经理完全可以独立主持这个会。
My GM of this business can crank and run that call.
完全没问题。
No problem.
我的首席参谋也会参加并主持这个会。
My chief of staff also sits in on that call and runs that call.
另外，我们还有一个阶段门创新会议。
Then And we also have like a Stage-gate Innovation meeting.
所以这个会议的核心就是，任何新想法都要经过阶段评审。
So basically what that meeting is, is anything new that we want to bring in, we have to Stage-gate it.
这说得通吗？
Does it make sense?
能赚钱吗？
Is it profitable?
目标市场够大吗？我们有没有足够的潜在用户？
Do we have enough, do we have a big enough TAM for it?
有没有足够多的用户会需要这个产品？
Is there a big enough audience that warrants this product?
财务方面，
Finance,
运营，然后这个阶段评审主要就是看产品方向。
ops, and then this Stage Gate is basically product?
主要是新产品的创新提案。
New products innovation coming in.
是的
Yeah.
所以到周末的时候，我能对公司的整体情况有个全面的高层概览。
So basically by the end of the week, I have a full picture, high level overview of everything that's happening within the company.
你刚才讲产品那边的阶段门审查时语速太快了，你提到的那些关键点具体是哪些？
You just ran through those really, really fast on the product side, the Stage gate, what are those kinds of key things you said?
关于阶段门审查，核心就是看这事儿合不合理，对吧？
So for Stage-gate, it's, does it make sense, right?
我们做出来的产品，是不是比别人家的更好？
Does that, we make a better product than somebody else?
说实话，如果没什么创新，也没理由推出新产品，那想跟市场上已有的产品竞争，难度会非常大。
Because let's be honest, if there's no innovation or there's no reason for the products to be made, that's going to be pretty tough to compete with everyone else already has the product.
所以我们需要的是一个我们有信心能做出创新的产品。
So it needs to be a product that we feel that we can innovate on.
它还必须能提升利润率。
It needs to be margin accretive.
所以它得赚钱，不然做出来不赚钱的产品就没意义。
So it needs to make money or else there's no point in making a product that doesn't make money.
你也许能在第一类上靠盈利能力胜出。
And you could win on bucket one based on the ability to make money potentially.
对。
Right.
你能根据单件产品的经济效益来创新吗？
Can you innovate based on the unit economics?
当然可以。
Of course.
是的，一直都是这样。
Yeah, always.
还有就是，这个产品成本够低吗？
You know, and then the other one is, is the product cost effective?
没错。
Right.
这挺有意思的，我有个合伙人叫马特，我们刚创业的时候，马特是世界上对配方最在行的人之一，但我们推出的配方成本太高，市场根本接受不了。
And this is funny because I have a partner, Matt, and when we first started our business, one of the big things that we came out with is Matt is one of the most intelligent people in the world with formulations, but we were coming out with formulas that were way too expensive for the market.
这里面得有个平衡，你知道吧？我们当然能做出最好的配方，但如果价格贵到没人买得起，或者远超同类产品的价格，那谁都不会买。
So there's a, there's this give and take, you know, where it's like, okay, we can make the best formula, but if no one can afford it or if it's priced out of the range of every other product in that category, no one's going to buy it.
对吧？
Right?
所以你得特别留意货架上其他竞品的情况，它们的价格到底是什么水平。
So you really need to pay attention to, you know, other competitors on shelf, you know, what are they, what are they at?
因为消费者就是消费者，他们愿意花多少钱，就会花多少钱。
Because people are people, they're going to spend what they want to spend on a product.
不会多花的。
They're not going to spend more.
还有分销渠道的问题，我们刚才私下聊过。
In relation to the distribution point as well, we just spoke off camera.
我完全没想到，开在好市多和便利店里的同款产品，价格能差这么多。
Like I had no idea the price fluctuation between like a Costco and then a convenience store.
我们当初进这些店的时候，真是踩了不少坑，毕竟沃尔玛的顾客和塔吉特的顾客根本不一样。
And we fucked ourselves pretty good, like going into some of these stores because, you know, at the end of the day, a Walmart shopper is different than a Target shopper.
Costco的顾客和山姆会员店的顾客也不一样。
A Costco shopper is different than a Sam shopper.
维生素专卖店的顾客和沃尔玛的顾客更是完全不同。
A vitamin shop shopper is different than a Walmart shopper.
这时候就需要一位首席商业策略官，来精心设计价格和包装策略——到底该把什么产品放在哪里，定价多少。
So that's where having a chief commercial strategy officer comes in to really build out that price pack architecture of knowing, what are we putting where, how much is it going to cost?
每款产品到底包含多少剂量？
How many servings are in each one of these products?
我们还得避免自家产品互相抢生意。
And we need to make sure that we don't cannibalize ourselves on shelf.
不能让顾客从维生素店跑去做沃尔玛的生意。
We don't want people leaving vitamin shops to go to Walmart.
这对我们一点好处都没有。
That doesn't do us any good.
对吧？
Right?
所以每个目标客户群体和每个销售渠道都要彻底覆盖。
So Full sell through in each ICP and each distribution front.
没错。
Exactly.
这得有策略地去做。
And you do that strategically.
要做好这件事，背后需要很多策略考量。
There's a lot of strategy that goes in doing that well.
还有其他重要的会议吗？
Any other big meetings?
我们有财务、运营、产品，还有别的重大会议吗？
We got finance, we got ops, we got product, anything else big?
我每周都会和我们的德国同事碰一次。
I have a weekly touchpoint with our German counterpart.
所以我们每周都会把所有的财务数据发给他们，双方频繁协作，内容特别多。
So, you know, we deliver all the financials to them on a, on a weekly basis and just go through a lot of different collaboration between the two.
我们的母公司位于德国。
So our parent company is in Germany.
在汉堡。
It's in Hamburg.
我的每一位高管也都和德国那边的对应同事保持定期沟通，因为我们在那里有个规模很大的研发基地。
So every one of my senior level executives has a touch point with their counterpart in Germany as well because we have a massive R and D facility over there.
那边不仅有庞大的财务团队，还有一个非常出色的策略团队。
We have a massive finance team over there, a really good strategy team.
所以我们经常来回交流，看看我们这边有哪些做法值得搬到那边去。
So we're always going back and forth to figure out, you know, what are we doing over here that could be great over there?
反过来，他们那边有哪些好经验也可以借鉴到我们这边来。
What are they doing over there that could be great over here?
有意思的是，Nico负责那边的研发团队，他真是个天才，对配方的把握特别超前——说实话，大部分创新其实都来自欧洲。
And the cool part is, is, you know, Nico runs our R and D team over there and he's a brain, you know, the guy is way ahead of his time with formulations because let's be honest, most of the time innovation comes from The U.
对。
S.
然后创新通常先在美国落地，之后才慢慢传到欧洲。我觉得现在我们在这里，完全可以更快地把创新推到欧洲市场。
And then it trickles to Europe after The US where I feel like now that we're here, we can kind of push innovation to the European market way faster for them.
他们可以借鉴我们已经看到成效的做法，比他们在德国的同行领先两三年。
And they can go and act on some things that we're seeing traction on where they're two, three years ahead of their counterparts in Germany.
你们现在是国际业务了吗？
Are you guys international yet or not?
我们已经是国际化的了。
We are international.
我们不会跟德国那边直接竞争同一个市场。
We're not like, we're not playing in where our counterpart is.
ESN在欧洲相当于Raw。
ESN is like the equivalent of Raw in Europe.
所以我们不想互相抢生意。
So we don't want to cannibalize each other.
ESN 在那边是一家非常出色的公司。
ESN is a fantastic company over there.
我们在墨西哥和加拿大有很多业务。
We do a lot of business in Mexico and Canada.
这两个国家对我们来说都很重要，但在欧洲的业务量并不大。
So, you know, those are two big countries for us, but we don't do a massive amount of business in Europe.
这就像商业机密、规模效应，还有资源共享。
So it's like trade secrets, economies of scale, sharing different resources.
确实如此。
Yeah, man.
我们就像兄弟一样，亲如兄弟。
We're, it's like brothers, we're brothers.
太棒了。
Love that.
我想再深入聊聊这个，但还想再谈一点别的。
I want to get deeper into that, but I want to talk about one more piece on that.
我习惯设定这些季度目标，它们都是为了支撑全年的目标。
Again, I'm used to doing these rocks, which are quarterly goals that ladder up to the yearly goals.
当然。
Sure.
你们是怎么保持方向的？我知道你们不想被各种新点子带偏，但如果真的发生了重大变化，你们怎么办？
How do you stay on track and or I know you don't want shiny object syndrome, but what happens if something really, really does change?
对。
Yeah.
这种调整是不是只在高管层面决定？比如，今年都进行到第四个月了，突然发现原来的计划不太合适了。
Is that just something on the C level where you're like, you know, you could be four months into this year goal and then maybe it doesn't make sense.
你们是怎么调整方向的？
Like how are you guys course correcting?
这需要持续不断地沟通吗？
And is that just a constant communication?
是的。
Yeah.
所以这些会议就是用来做这个的。
So that's what those meetings are for.
举个例子，我始终相信财务部门总是最先发现问题的。
You know, one of the big examples is I'm a believer that finance sees everything first.
比如说，我们的营销策略非常棒。
So for example, we have a great marketing strategy.
我们原本觉得这会特别成功。
We think it's going to be incredible.
整个推广流程也都按计划顺利进行。
We do this whole rollout, everything goes the right way.
但等数据一出来，发现我们的CM1目标根本没达成。
And then the numbers start coming in and, Hey, look, we're not hitting our CM1 target.
我们以为会有一波巨大的肌酸销量，结果却发现预训练补剂之类的产品反而更受欢迎。
Hey, look, we thought we were going to have this massive creatine push, but really pre workout or something else is pushing in that direction.
这时候就得看数据，想想我们哪些地方做对了。
And that's where you look at the numbers and say, okay, what did we do right?
我们哪里做错了？
What did we do wrong?
这到底是怎么发生的？
How did this happen?
如果是好事，那是不是该继续追下去？
And if it's a good thing, does it make sense to keep chasing it?
对吧？
Right?
有时候，某些东西就是会突然爆火。
Like there's a, there are points in time where like stuff just pops off.
我们可能突然出一个爆款视频，让产品一下子火起来。
We could get a viral video where that viral video makes something go massive.
这种机会，你根本不能放过。
And it's like, you can't not let that happen.
当然要抓住这个方向，趁势而上。
You want to go that route and capitalize on it.
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但关键是要明白，你有目标，目标有优先级，这事儿还赚不赚钱？
But just understanding that you have goals and the hierarchy of goal is, is it still going to be profitable?
团队能不能达成共识，灵活调整，让这一切都说得通？
You know, can the team align on it and pivot and make it make sense?
而且，它还符不符合最终的目标？
And also like, does it still align with the end goal?
而公司最终的目标，通常都是财务目标，对吧？
And the end goal usually for a company is a financial goal, right?
我们得达到某个数字。
We need to hit a certain number.
我们得达成某个EBITDA。
We need to hit a certain EBITDA.
我们还得达到某个CM1，因为EBITDA固然重要，但对想收购你公司的人来说，CM1同样关键。
We need to hit a certain CM1 because, you know, as much as EBITDA is important, CM1 is just as important to someone who's looking at buying your company.
所以，保持这个数字高位非常重要。
So it's very important to keep that number high.
有道理。
Makes sense.
咱们得从刚才那些宏观的想法，落到实际操作层面。
I want to ladder down that we're talking all the way up in the clouds.
我想跟你聊聊日常的惯例、系统和节奏。
I want to talk down with you and daily rituals, systems, Cadence.
你每周还会固定做些什么？
What else do you do every single week?
大多数人连经营一家公司都够呛。
Because most people are having trouble running one company.
你却同时参与了十五家。
You're involved in like 15.
昨晚电话里，他又突然扔过来两家公司。
Like last night on the phone, he just drops like another two companies.
我心里就在想，老兄，我根本没去研究过这些公司。
I'm just thinking in my head, I'm like, bro, I'm not doing any research on these companies.
也许我们可以做第二部分、第三部分、第四部分，不过你确实忙得够呛，接下来我们会更深入聊聊这些。
Maybe we can have a part two, part three, part four, but yeah, you're doing a lot and we're gonna get further into those.
我觉得你厉害的地方就在于，你总能抓住这些小切口，你的增长飞轮简直太强了。
I think the brilliance with you is just like, I think about these mini pockets and just your flywheel is disgusting.
所有事情都能互相带动，环环相扣。
Like everything just plays off each other.
你在这三个领域里都做到了顶尖。
You're just dominating in these three different pockets.
咱们聊聊你吧，比如工作和生活的平衡、系统和节奏这些方面。
But let's talk about you, like work life balance, systems, Cadence.
你平时还做些什么来保持头脑清醒、心态稳定？
Like what are the other things that you do to stay sane and sharp?
当然可以。
Sure.
对。
Yeah.
我得承认，兄弟。
I'll give it to you, man.
说实话，我在工作和生活平衡这方面还是挺挣扎的。
I would say that I still struggle with the work life balance thing.
我老婆肯定第一个跟你这么说。
My wife will be the first one to tell you that.
是的。
Yeah.
每个丈夫的老婆都这样，我也在应对这个问题。
So does everybody's wife is I'm dealing with that.
我也一样，我刚跟老婆说，我准备时间砍掉了一半，这样就能多陪她了。
I'm dealing with that too right I just told my wife that my prep time got cut in half, which allocates more time to her.
她昨晚可高兴了。
She was very, very excited last night.
这不就对了。
There you go.
谢谢，兄弟。
Thank you, bro.
谢谢你，杰克。
Thank you, Jake.
是的。
Yeah.
干得漂亮，兄弟。
Great job, bro.
嘿，我的一天通常也差不多是这样开始的。
Hey, hey, my day usually starts pretty similar.
我五点到六点之间起床。
I wake up between five and six.
起床后，我就把这段时间叫做‘我爸时段’。
I wake up and I call that like my dad hours.
就是我儿子还没醒之前的那段时间。
Like that's before my son wakes up.
所以我能有段时间安静下来，把事情处理掉。
So I get to get like some peace and quiet and get stuff done.
只要是当爹的，我相信你们都懂，这正是我出门的原因。
Anyone who's a dad, I'm sure you understand that, but that's where I go out.
我现在通常骑自行车去。
I get on, I usually use a bike now.
以前我跑得比较多，但现在改用Concept2健身车了，因为骑车的时候还能顺便回邮件。
I used to run a lot more, but I'm on a Concept two bike now because I can actually crank out some emails while I'm on the bike.
我就是想提前把一天的事搞定，至少花一小时专心回邮件、看邮件、处理事务。
And I just try to get ahead of myself for the day, like at least an hour of just cranking out emails, reading emails, getting stuff done.
然后我就去训练。
And then I train.
我的训练一般不超过一个小时。
And my training is is usually about an hour or less.
我现在训练的方式跟以前完全不同了。
I do a much different style of training than I used to.
更注重实用性。
It's more functional.
我中间会做很多拉伸，主要是为了保持灵活，好陪儿子活动。
I do a lot of stretching in between, you know, compound movements and really just managing the ability to stay nimble for my son.
我想能陪他跑步、踢足球，做那些说实话，很多爸爸已经做不了的事。
I want to be able to, you know, run with him and play football with him and do the things that, you know, let's be honest, some dads just can't do.
接下来的核心指标。
Core KPI moving forward.
对。
Yeah.
核心指标。
Core KPI.
然后我会去蒸个桑拿，再泡个冰水。
And then from there I'll usually do a sauna, I'll cold plunge.
我泡冰水不是为了别的，就是得先止住汗，不然没法去上班。
I don't cold punch for any other reason besides the fact that I have to stop sweating before I go to work.
所以我先跳进去凉快一下，然后去洗个澡，接着就开始忙活了。
So I'll jump in there to cool off and then I'll go take a shower and then I'm off to the races.
具体去哪个办公室，得看是星期几。
So depending on what day it is will depend on what office I go to.
周一早上我通常去家族办公室，待一上午，下午就去健身房，之后一整天都在健身房的咖啡店办公。
Mondays I usually go to my family office in the morning and I spend my morning at the family office and then I'll go to my gym and I'll actually work out of my coffee shop at the gym for the rest of the day.
现在我团队里不少人也跟着这么干了。
It's kind of been a trend that like my team does the same now.
有些团队成员会跟着我到健身房，一起喝杯咖啡，挺不错的。
So like some of my team in my family office will follow me to the gym and we'll have coffee and it's a nice thing.
对吧？
Right?
周二到周四，我就固定在Raw and Bum那边了。
And then Tuesday through Thursday, I'm locked in on Raw and Bum.
那一周里，我都会去Raw and Bum的总部上班。
Those are the, those are the, that's the time of the week that I go to my corporate headquarters for Raw and Bum.
我99%的工作都是在那里完成的。
And you know, that's where I do 99% of my work for that company.
星期五我通常在家办公。
Fridays are usually a work from home day.
那天我会把各家公司的事情都补上。
That's where I catch up on all the companies.
我会跟那些公司负责人一一联系，你知道的，咱们之前聊过，就问问他们最近怎么样。
So I'll catch up with, you know, there's a ton, you know, we've talked about them, but all the heads of all those companies, Hey, how's everything going?
顺便看看有没有什么问题，对吧？
Are there any problems and granted, right?
我坚信，CEO的职责就是尽量把日程安排得宽松点，因为主要就是灭火，每周总会有不同地方冒出来问题。
Like I'm a firm believer that the job of a CEO is to really keep your schedule as light as possible because you just need to put out fires and there's fires every week from a different place.
所以我得随时能跳起来，马上加入通话，及时解决这些突发状况。
So I have to have the ability to grab and go and get into those calls and fix those problems as they come about.
但说实话，我敢说我的团队不输任何同行的团队。
But I will be honest, I would put my team against any team in the industry.
我觉得我拥有世界上最棒的团队。
I think I have the greatest team in the world.
说实话，如果没有他们，就不可能有现在的我。
And I think that there's no world that I am me without them.
我是真心这么说的。
So I mean that entirely.
大家问得最多的问题就是：嘿，我连一家公司都管不好。
And everyone that the number one question I always get asked is, Hey, I have trouble running one company.
你是怎么同时运营这么多家公司的？
How do you run this many companies?
这全靠我的团队。
And it's my team.
我们花了很长时间才把团队搭建到现在的水平。
And it took a long time to get it to where it is.
我想深入聊聊招聘，以及你是怎么找到这些人才的。
I want to get deeper into hiring and how you get these people.
我们稍后会再深入聊这个话题。
We're going to get into that further and later in the conversation.
那转换成本呢？
What about like switching costs?
对我来说，一边经营一家公司，还要再管另一家，再加上托管业务，简直像在干三份工作。
Cause like for me, I'm basically running a company and then running another company and then hosting, I think is like another job.
我自己的生活也是这样。
And I would say my personal life as well.
你手头上的事情也太多了吧。
I mean, you have so much going on.
你刚才说周二和周四集中处理事务，是这样吗？
Are you doing like, obviously you said you're doing batching on Tuesday and Thursday.
你是把时间按公司分开来安排的吗？
Are you just trying to isolate blocks on a per company perspective?
不是。
No.
说到底，我觉得关键就是尽可能随时待命，方便随时支持他们所有人。
I mean, I think really what it comes down to is just being available as much as possible for all of them.
所以，像那些我不必参加的会，我根本不去。
So again, like I don't take meetings I don't need to be at.
比如说，有个销售和运营会议，我根本没必要参加。
Like for example, there's an S and O sales and operations meeting.
那种会，我真的不需要在场。
I don't need to be in that meeting.
如果真出了什么问题，需要我介入调整，我自然会插手。
If something's up that I need to jump in and, you know, course correct something, I'll jump in on it.
但我基本都放手让团队自己主导。
But I really let my team lead.
这正是我的团队表现这么出色的原因。
And it's been the reason why my team is so good.
我觉得很多创始人常犯的错，就是事事都想插手，反而拖累了团队。
I think one of the issues with founders in general is they cripple their own team by trying to stay involved in everything.
然后大家都开始害怕，开始担心。
And then everyone gets scared and everyone gets worried.
当创始人在场的时候，大多数人会变得没那么有创意，也没那么敢表达意见。
Most people are a little bit less creative or a little bit less opinionated when the founders in the room.
我觉得创始人一在场，大家就都变成附和的人了。
And I think when the founders in the room is when people are yes men.
我希望人们能大胆表达观点，激烈争论，因为真正有成果的事情往往就是在这种碰撞中产生的。
And I want people to have those opinions and fight and have a little bit of arguments because that's where stuff gets done.
我坚信，高管团队之间健康的争论是非常有价值的。
I fully believe that a healthy argument between a C suite is a very valuable thing.
如果所有人都沉默不语、盲目顺从，对谁都没好处。
If everyone's just not talking or following blindly, it's no good for anybody.
我完全同意。
I completely agree.
对那些正在听的、年收入七位数的创业者来说，团队规模其实可以更小一些。
For people out there listening that are on, you know, seven figures, they're smaller.
如果让你选一个作为CEO最核心的系统，来带动所有其他事情，你会选哪个？
If you had to pinpoint kind of one system as a CEO to lever down to all the other things, what would it just be?
就是每周开一次会明确方向，然后就放手不管？
Just one weekly meeting to find the vision and then just get out of the way?
你会推荐这样做吗？
Is that what you would recommend?
是的。
Yeah.
我的想法是，任何CEO的核心目标，其实就是搞清楚品牌存在的意义是什么。
I mean, I think the goal of any CEO is really to just define the mission of what the brand's there for.
对吧？
Right?
我知道这听起来有点夸张，但归根结底，就是给团队提供他们完成工作所需的工具。
And I know that sounds crazy, but at the end of the day, it's giving them the tools they need to do all the jobs they need to do.
不过没错，我认为CEO参与进来确实很有价值，但前提是不能妨碍其他人正常开展工作。
But yes, I believe that the CEO being involved in anything is very valuable until the point that it cripples everyone else's ability to do tasks.
在很多公司里，你都会看到CEO想把所有事情都抓在手里，事事都要亲力亲为。
And I think that you see in a lot of companies that the CEO tries to hold onto everything and they want to do everything all the time.
结果其他人干脆就不想当领导者了。
And then everyone else just decides that they're not going to be leaders at all.
他们觉得没必要，反正也没意义。
They don't need to be because there's no point.
没必要去创新。
There's no point in being creative.
没必要主动做事，反正最后想做什么也做不了。
There's no point in being proactive because at the end of the day, they're not able to do anything they want to do anyways.
就让他们去干吧。
So let them do it.
让他们犯错也没关系。
Let them make mistakes.
如果真犯错了，当然要帮他们纠正。
If they make mistakes, obviously like help them.
如果你提前看到公司可能出问题，就可以介入，试着引导他们走对方向。
And if you see something coming, that's not really great for the company, you can jump in and try to guide them the right way.
但我认为，对于你的高管团队或任何领导团队来说，最宝贵的是允许他们犯一些小错，因为这样才能学到东西——我相信你也会同意。
But I think the most valuable thing for your C team or a leadership team in general is to make some small mistakes because you learn, I mean, I'm sure you would agree.
犯错带来的成长，远比根本不敢动手要多得多。
You learn way more from fucking up than you do from, you know, not being able to do it at all.
要放手，要授权，退到一边，只在他们需要时出现。
Elevate, delegate, get out the way and just be there if they need you.
让他们偶尔犯点小错，但别是致命的，然后你就继续往前走。
Let them make small, small, not fatal mistakes once and you just keep moving along.
这是二八法则。
It's the eightytwenty rule.
我坚信这一点。
I'm a firm believer in it.
只要他们80%的时间都在做对的事，我就很满意了。
If they're doing the right things 80% of the time, I'm happy with it.
有百分之二十的失误，只要别犯同样的错两次就行。
20% mistake, as long as they don't make the same mistake twice.
我觉得得有个九成十成的标准。
You need like a ninetyten there.
我觉得八二开就挺好。
Eightytwenty, I'd say.
我觉得没问题。
I'm okay with it.
你接受八二开？
You're okay with eightytwenty.
我也能接受。
I'm okay with it.
你做的事，我可没在做啊。
You're doing something that I'm not doing, bro.
所以也许我也该降到八二开的水平了。
So may maybe I need to maybe I need to go down to fucking eightytwenty.
我不确定，但针对那些正在听的创业者，如果你们想提前规划，五年后打算把公司卖了，该怎么做呢？
I don't know, Back to this quality group deal for people out there, founders that are listening and they wanna, you know, preplan and think five years out, they wanna sell their company in five years.
那你们现在应该做些什么，才能像你一样做好准备？
What should they be doing now to set themselves up for something like what you did?
我觉得有几件事很重要。
I think there's a few things.
首先，创业之初，你得诚实地问自己：这个公司是冲着卖钱去的，还是想打造成一个能持续赚钱的现金流机器？
Number one is I think, you know, when you start a business, I think you have to have a real conversation with yourself to understand, you know, is this business being set up to sell or is this business being set up to be like a cash flow king for me?
但大多数人根本分不清这两者的区别。
And most people don't understand the difference of those two things.
所以，建立一家公司时，别把所有利润都掏空，也别拿公司账目报销个人开销，这一点非常关键。
So being able to set up a company where you're not taking all the profitability away from the company, you're not running personal expenses through the company.
因为……
It's very valuable and very important because
如果要
if going to
对吧？
sell, right?
归根结底，就像我说的，EBITDA特别关键。
Because at the end of the day, like I said, you know, EBITDA is a big deal.
CM1也非常重要。
CM1 is a big deal.
等到要卖公司的时候，财务一团乱糟糟的，对谁都没好处。
And really just having messy financials is no good for anybody when it comes time to sell your company.
所以如果你计划两三年内出售，我建议至少准备两年经过审计的财务报表，做个盈利质量分析，然后真正意识到这是一整套流程。
So doing, you know, I would recommend if you plan on selling within two to three years, having at least two years of audited financials, doing a quality of earnings, and then really setting yourself up to understand that it's a process.
越早提前准备，后续流程就越顺利。
And the more you do before the process starts, the easier the process is.
我特意用‘流程’这个词，因为卖公司的时候，大家都说你在‘跑流程’。
I'm using the word process specifically because when you start to sell a company, it's called, you're going to run a process.
而跑流程的时候，通常你会聘请一家投资银行。
And when you run a process is usually you hire an investment bank.
投资银行会在你正式启动流程前，先跟你做一个小规模的预检，看看是不是一切都准备好了。
The investment bank will kind of do a mini process with you before you run your real process to say, okay, do we have all of our ducks in a row?
财务数据达标了吗？
Are the financials good?
很多人就是在这儿开始紧张，因为真正的麻烦这才刚开始。
And that's where most people, they get worried because that's where the work starts.
但如果你提前把这些都做好了，正式启动流程时就不必回头再去补这些工作。
But if you do all these things first, when you start to run your process, you don't have to go back and do all that stuff.
所有事情都已经办妥了。
It's already done.
我觉得几乎没有任何一位初次创业的创始人会这么做。
I don't think like almost any first time founder does that.
等到真到了这一步，你就会发现，大家讨论的都是现金流、利润表、应计项目，还有调整后的财务数据。
And then you get, I mean, I've been in and around this situation and then you're talking about like cash, P and L, accrual, and L, it's pro form a.
没错。
Yep.
如果你整天陷在公司里，别人是不会完全认可你那些调整项的价值的。
If you're living through the company, you're not going to get the full credit for all of the add backs.
没错，确实如此。
No, let's yeah.
你做不到的。
You can't.
所以，如果你天天泡在公司里，说服买家就很难了，你拿不到你实际付出的每一分钱回报。
So if you live through the company guys, it's a tough sell and you're not, you're not going to get dollar for dollar what you're actually doing.
还有一件事更重要，这是我用惨痛教训换来的：当你准备出售公司时，必须提前组建好团队，让公司离了你也能正常运转。
And then the other piece that's even more important, and this is something I learned the hard way is when you're going to sell, you need to have a team in place so the company doesn't rely on you.
因为这对潜在买家来说是个巨大的红灯。
Cause that's a massive, massive red flag for someone coming to buy you.
如果你就是公司，或者公司没了你就转不动，那问题就严重多了——买家会担心，你一走，公司立马就垮了。
If you are the company or if the company doesn't work without you, it's a way, way more material issue for them to buy you because they feel like if you step away from the company, then the company's going to turn to shit.
所以话说回来，如果你真想为退出做好准备，就别把自己绑在公司里。
So with that being said, on the former, if you're trying to set yourself up for an exit, don't live through the company.
那工资方面呢？
And then what about salary?
如果你是个创始人，你对外面的人有什么建议？
What do you recommend for people out there if you're a founder?
是的。
Yeah.
说实话，工资这事挺有意思的。
I mean, look, the salary thing's funny.
我刚拍了个YouTube视频讲这个。
I actually just did a YouTube video on this.
我刚创业那会儿，我们根本没拿工资。
You know, when I first started my company, I we didn't take salaries.
我们拿的是分红，懂吧？
We took distributions, right?
等公司现金流足够支撑自己、能撑上几个月的时候，我们才拿一点分红。
So when the company had enough cash flow in the business to support itself and sustain for a few months at a time, we would take a little distribution.
然后这些钱越来越多，你越来越兴奋，接着你就想，好了，这笔钱我该怎么用，可别傻乎乎地乱花，得想办法再赚钱。
And then those get bigger and they get bigger and you get excited and then it's like, okay, what do I start doing with this money not be an idiot and start making other money?
还是说，干脆再投回公司，把业务做得更大一点？
Or can I reinvest it back into the business to get the business a little bit bigger?
但说到底，工资这类事真不该这么早提，老实说，我们一直到公司被收购前，都没拿过工资。
But ultimately, salaries and all that shit really shouldn't come to fruition until, I mean, we really didn't start taking salaries until we sold.
整个收购过程中，我们一直用的是分红模式。
We did the distribution model the whole way through our acquisition.
等公司卖了之后，我们才决定：好吧，现在开始发工资了，因为卖了之后，分红就没了。
And then when we sold, we basically said, okay, we're going get salaries because once we sold, we're not getting distributions anymore.
对吧？
Right?
现在完全是另一回事了。
It's a whole different game now.
所以我们定了个跟普通CEO差不多的薪水。
So we put in the salary of what, you know, a typical CEO would make.
现在我赚的就是这些。
And now that's what I, that's what I make.
这样挺好。
And that's okay.
我对此很满意。
I'm fine with that.
一开始你就得非常明确自己的方向。
You have to be very, very intentional early.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
第一次谈退出的时候，你们花了多久时间？
First conversation to exit, how long did it take you?
大概一年吧。
I get some A year.
整整一年。
Full year.
整整一年。
Full year.
那是因为我们得做大量清理工作。
And that's because we had to, we had to do a lot of cleanup.
所以我从这段经历中学到了很多东西，现在跟你们聊的这些，都是那时候悟出来的，我觉得经过这番折腾，我至少提升了百分之百到两百倍。
So, you know, I learned a lot of things that I'm talking to you guys about from that process, you know, and I would say that I'm in a 100 or 200 better after that because of that process.
那是我迄今为止最艰难、压力最大的一段时光。
And it was the most difficult, it was the most stressful time of my life to date.
毫无疑问。
No doubt.
对。
Yeah.
最糟的就是你刚定下一个数字，接着就进入尽职调查阶段，外界开始关注，合同签了又没完全生效，卡在那个悬而未决的空档里。
The worst is when you come up with a number and then there's that like due diligence and exposure from the outside world where it's signed, but it's not signed and you're in that little holding pattern.
是的
Yeah.
我刚和大卫普罗提安的拉胡尔聊过，他跟我讲了这事，我当时就觉得这简直太
I just had a conversation with Rahul from David Protean and he was telling me about that and I was like, that sounds absolutely
老兄，这真的特别煎熬，因为你得跟十几二十个人反复谈，每次都得把同一套话说一遍，然后到了关键阶段，他们得发意向书，对吧？
Dude, it's brutal because what they do is, you know, you're on this process, you sit down with 15 or 20 different people, you do the same spiel to every one of them and then you get to the phase of, you know, this is where they have to send their LOIs, right?
你等着收意向书，意向书陆续来了，这时候其实你们也在互相考察，因为除非你是把公司全卖了，否则这就像结婚一样，对吧？
And you're waiting for the LOIs, the LOIs are coming in you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you because unless you're selling the whole company, this is going to be a marriage, right?
你们得跟这些人长期合作。
You're partnering with these people for quite some time.
我们当时就是这么做的。
And that's exactly what we did.
所以那时候我们考虑的从来不只是谁出的钱最多。
So it wasn't always about who's going to give us the most money.
关键是找一个真正适合这个业务的合作伙伴。
It was about who is the right partner for the business.
所以第二次机会能收获很多。
So you can get a lot on the second bite.
吃苹果的第二口，才是最重要的一口。
The second bite of the apple is the most important bite of the apple.
对吧？
Right?
我们当时就是这么做的。
So that's kind of the way we did it.
你得经历整个过程，看财务数据，最后才说：好，我就选你了。
And, you you go through this whole entire period, you're going through the financials and then, you know, you say, okay, I pick you.
这时候才进入独家谈判阶段。
And that's where you get this exclusivity.
对吧？
Right?
在独家谈判期间，他们会深入调查，翻遍所有资料，找任何可能的漏洞。
So during exclusivity, they're diving in, digging in, pulling the data room, trying to find any holes in anything.
那时候你的评估还很高，但后来慢慢就下滑了，最后你只能摊手说，算了，事情就是这样。但说真的，你看那些收购公司的人，他们就是干这行的，这活儿就是他们的本职。
And that's where your evaluation was up here and then it's like slowly going like this and then you're like, fuck, you know, and it is what it is, but they, it's true, you know, and look at these guys that are buying these companies, they're dogs, that's their job.
他们一来就拼命找漏洞，想方设法压价，等接手后再慢慢把价值提上去。
They come in, they try to find holes, they try to find ways to get it for less and build it up later for more.
这本来就是生意，我也认了，但确实挺有压力的。
And it's a business and I accepted it, but it was stressful.
你根本藏不住任何东西。
You can't hide anything either.
这是我学到的最重要的一点。
That's like the huge thing that I've learned.
所有事情迟早都会浮出水面，这点毋庸置疑。
Everything comes out to put a pin on that.
你们啊，这次其实并没有把公司全部卖出去。
You guys, again, you guys didn't sell in full.
没错。
Correct.
你们把股权继续保留了。
You rolled over equity.
所以我很想请你给所有听节目的人一些建议。
So I'd love for you to just give advice for everybody out there listening.
我觉得这种做法其实挺聪明的，既能套现一部分，又保留了未来潜在的高回报机会。
Cause I actually think that that's a great play for someone to get, take off some of the chips, get some liquidity, but then also have some asymmetric upside in the future.
你学到了哪些关键点？别谈具体数字，就说说当时实际是怎么操作的。
So what are the key things you've learned and without telling us numbers, like what, just dive into what that looked like.
是的，其实有很多策略性的方式可以做得很好。
Yeah, look, I think there's very strategic ways that you can do a lot.
没错。
Right.
在这个过程中，关键是要在公司势头正好的时候出手。
And in this process, the goal is to always sell your company when it's going like this.
大家都说，我要再撑一阵，还会继续涨，还会继续涨。
Everyone always says, I'm going to keep going, it's going to keep going, it's going to keep going.
这再好不过了。
And great.
你可能这么想，但很可能根本不是这样。
You may think that, but there's a very good chance it doesn't.
所以在增长遇到瓶颈之前，最好先考虑被收购。
So the goal is before any type of plateau hits, you want to have some type of an acquisition.
到了那时候，就得你自己决定：我是想留下来，继续把这事推到最高点，做大做强？
And then at that point, it's up to you to say, hey, do I want to stay along to ride this thing as high as we can and to grow it?
还是干脆全部卖了？
Or am I selling it all the way?
我当时很清楚，我们还有很大的发展空间，我的团队和合伙人也都明白这一点。
So in my position, I knew that we had a lot more white space and our team and my partners also knew that.
所以我们的目标是，通过一次战略性退出，既为家人积累世代财富，又为自己留足空间，未来能抓住更大的机会，再干一票大的。
So our goal was how can we have a strategic exit where we can have our generational wealth for our families, but also position ourselves to be ultra wildly successful in the future to get this big second bite.
而这一切，关键就在于战略思维。
And that part right there is where you think of strategy.
对吧？
Right?
我只关心这个。
That's all I cared about.
他们卖给你东西的同时，你也在卖给他们。
That's where they're selling you just as much as you're selling them.
百分之百。
A 100%.
没错。
Yeah.
因为大多数情况下，战略合作伙伴不会出最高价，他们也清楚自己的价值。
Because most of the time the strategic partner is not going to pay the most because they know their value too.
所以可能会有私募股权公司砸一大笔钱给你，说‘行，我们干了’。
So you can have a PE group come in and just throw a ton of money at you and say, yeah, we'll do it.
但他们不会带来任何战略，也没法帮你持续走下去。
But they're not going to come with any type of strategy, any type of ability to help you keep going like this.
对我来说，这才是最重要的目标。
And that for me was the biggest goal.
我得找个人，你知道的，就像我说的，我不清楚自己不知道什么。
I needed to find somebody who, you know, I, like I said, I didn't know what I didn't know.
我只知道怎么把公司做到这么大，但他们知道怎么把公司推向下一个阶段。
So I only knew how to get a company so big, but they knew how to get a company to that next level.
所以德国人出的价不是最高的？
So the Germans weren't the highest bid?
不是。
No.
真没想到。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
太棒了，宝贝。
Love it, baby.
没有风险，就没有回报。
No risk, no reward.
走吧。
Let's go.
你的团队里都是真正懂运营的人。
I mean, you have true operators.
说实话，我最近跟很多私募人士聊得挺多的。
Like, reality is is I've been talking to a lot more PE people.
我刚跟一群私募人士吃了整整五个小时的饭。
I just had, like, a five hour dinner with PE people.
我都忘了是谁说的了。
And, like, I forgot who said it.
可能是罗斯在《Cadence》那期提过的，但最厉害的投资人，确实都是实干家。
It might have been Ross on the Cadence episode, but it's just, like, the best investors are the operators.
这些人都在运营公司，他们确实把一些公司做到了十亿美元以上。
And these and these guys are operating companies, and they've, I mean, they brought companies over a billion dollars.
没错。
Correct.
你真正该找的就是这样的人合作。
Those are the people that you want go with.
对。
Yeah.
那从中能学到哪些关键经验？
So what are the key learnings in there?
你最看重的是哪些东西？
What are the things that you take away?
对你来说，大概就是先攒够足够多的钱，达到代际财富的最低门槛，不管这个数是多少，然后再去追求另一边的最大回报？
It's just for you, you think that get enough, probably the the minimum amount that you need on the front for generational wealth, whatever that number is, and then probably the best swing on the other side?
是的。
Yeah.
所以我们当时的结构方式很特别，连业绩对赌也这么安排了。
So the way we structured it was unique as we structured earn outs too.
比如说，你可以决定先卖掉公司百分之多少的股份。
So like you have the ability to say, okay, you know, we're going to sell X percent of the company.
我们知道接下来还有几年会迎来爆发式增长。
We know we have these massive growth years coming still.
所以得想办法为这些增长年份设计一个业绩对赌机制。
So we need to figure out some way to have an earn out structure for those years.
因为在我们这个行业，前一年的业绩直接影响后一年的表现。
Because again, in our industry, the work you do for the year before shows the year of shows the year after.
就拿我们现在正在做的2026年工作来说，这些零售会议、所有这些安排，都要到明年才体现出来。
So like the work we're doing in 2026 right now, all these retail meetings, everything we're doing, those don't load in until next year.
所以我明明知道好戏在后头，但现在却拿不到相应的回报。
So it's like, I know what's coming, but like I'm not getting paid for it.
对。
Right.
这样说得通吗？
Does that make sense?
对。
Yeah.
所以零售和产品方面，
So retail and product,
会有延迟。
there's a lag.
没错。
Yeah.
对我来说就是，我明白现在是合适的时机，但未来还有很多事情在等着发生。
So for me it was like, look, like I understand that, you know, this is the right time, but we have a lot of stuff happening in the future.
于是他们就说，好吧，我们来给你制定未来两年的SGM或者预测数据。
So they're like, okay, we'll put together what we would call like your SGM or your forecast for the next two years.
然后基于这个数据设置业绩奖励。
And then we'll put an earn out on that.
如果你达成了目标，就能拿到绩效奖金，而且这些奖金不会影响你原有的股权。
And then if you hit it, you get the earn out and then you don't delineate any of your equity in those earn outs.
这些绩效奖金完全基于你之前跟我说过的预期目标。
Those earn outs are based on what you told me you were going to hit.
我们当然不会提前付你这笔钱，但只要你做到了，我们就一定会付。
We're obviously not going to pay you upfront for it, but if you hit them, we're going pay you.
达成之后，你还能再拿第二笔收益。
And then you still have that second bite after that.
所以我们这个方案非常划算，简直完美。
So we have a very sweet deal where it's amazing.
所以
So
你一开始拿到的那部分比例，应该是根据过去十二个月的数据算出来的吧。
the initial bite of the apple you got, that percentage was probably based on trailing 12.
没错。
Correct.
另外还有一个基于你在接下来什么时间段达成目标的额外对赌条款？
An additional earn out based on you hitting the goals in the next what?
两年。
Two years.
12到24个月，而且
12 to 24 And
这样你就有了两个独立的对赌条款。
then you have Two individual earn outs.
然后你在控股公司里还有股份，还有你那两家公司，以及他们的两家公司。
And then you have points in the holdco, your two companies, their two companies.
对。
Correct.
然后你还会从他们那里拿一份薪水。
And then you're on some sort of salary with them.
对。
Correct.
如果你大获成功，那在四家公司上就能大赚一笔，甚至可能更多。
And then if you win big, you win big on the four and maybe even more.
你们可以去收购其他公司。
You guys can go acquire companies.
想做什么都可以。
You can do whatever you want.
没错。
Exactly.
他正笑着呢，各位。
He's smiling guys.
他在笑。
He's smiling.
好戏就要来了。
Some shit's coming.
没错。
Exactly.
那边也要有大动作了。
Some shit's coming there.
太厉害了。
Amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
我看过那个家伙的一段视频。
I watched one of the videos with that guy.
我不记得他名字怎么念了。
Don't know how pronounce his name.
海克。
Heike.
是的。
Yeah.
他看起来像个狠角色。
He seems like a gangster.
他真是最棒的人。
He's the best man.
我经常跟所有人说，要不是因为Heike，我可能根本不会留下来，也不会选这家公司。
I told, I tell everyone all the time that I don't even know if, you know, I would have stayed if it wasn't for Heike or picked this company if it wasn't for Heike.
Heike毫无疑问是我生命中最有影响力的人之一。
Heike is without a doubt, one of the most influential people in my life.
我认识他才一年，这人从不扯淡，全都是围绕他的方法论。
And I've only known him for a year, no bullshit guy, all about his processes.
我看过他在Amer Sports时的YouTube视频。
I've watched YouTube videos of him from when he was at Amer sports.
我还看过他的一些季度会议，因为那家公司是上市公司。
And I've watched some of his quarterly meetings because it's a publicly traded company.
所以这些内容都是公开的。
So all that stuff is public.
他这个人，一贯地稳定可靠，没得说。
And it's like, he's anything, he's as consistent as they come.
用的都是同样的基础模块，这说明它是个系统。
The same building blocks are and which shows it's a system.
只要系统设计得当，放哪儿都能运转。
And if you build the system right, it can work anywhere.
你只要死死守住这个系统就行。
You just gotta stick to the fucking system.
你一定会喜欢Brian Garofalo，Skull Cannon的CEO，应该让他来录一期。
You would like Brian Garofalo, CEO of Skull Cannon, be an episode with him.
他是个真正的硬汉，二十多年、三十年来一直坚持自律和稳定的系统。
He's a absolute gangster, disciplined, consistent systems for twenty, thirty years.
看起来他和他非常相似。
Seems like he's very, very similar.
各位，本期节目由Ketone IQ赞助。
Guys, this episode is sponsored by Ketone IQ.
我经常坐在这把椅子上超过三个小时，靠生酮状态保持高度专注。
I often sit down in this chair for over three hours and stay super dialed with ketones.
这是完全不同于普通能量来源的大脑燃料，纯净、持久，而且不会让你崩溃。
It's a completely different category of fuel for your brain, clean, sustained, and no crash.
我每次录节目、做深度工作，或者需要保持专注的时候，都会喝上一口。
I take a shot before recording, before deep work, and any session that I need to be sharp.
去 ketone.com/openresidency，首月订阅立减30%，第二单还送你一份免费礼品。
Head to ketone.com/openresidency for 30% off your first subscription and a free gift with your second shipment.
网址是 ketone.com/openresidency。
That's ketone.com/openresidency.
这东西我每天都用，一点都不能妥协。
Guys, this is something that I use every single day nonnegotiable.
你也可以试试看。
Give it a try.
接下来我想聊聊这些公司。
I want to dive into the companies now.
当然。
Sure.
大家都知道你所有的公司。
Everyone knows all your companies.
那我们就从营销组合开始吧。
I guess let's just start with, let's start with like the marketing mix.
随便选一家公司。
Pick a company.
可以是Raw，也可以是CBOM。
It could be Raw, it could be CBOM.
你就跟我们说说，你是怎么整体看待营销的，不管是付费推广、自然流量，还是网红合作。
I mean, just tell us like how you look at marketing holistically, whether it be paid, organic, influencer.
从高层的角度看，这整个流程是怎样的？
What does that look like from the top?
对。
Yeah.
我们可以先从Raw说起，然后一路谈到Onside，因为这两家公司的做法其实不太一样，我可以分别讲一讲。
So, you know, we can start at, you know, the first one, which would be Raw, and then we can go all the way to Onside because I think there are two different ways and I can kind of work through both.
我对Onside特别好奇。
I'm so curious on Onside.
天啊，Onside太牛了。
Dude, Onside's sick.
简而言之，他们直接带着一堆明星，把产品铺进了全美所有Target门店。
Guys, long story short, they just went zero to all doors Target with a bunch of celebrities.
我们待会儿会详细聊这个。
We're gonna get into that deep.
没错。
Yeah.
如果真像我预料的那样发展的话
If that plays out how I think it is
它已经在按预期发展了。
It's already playing out the way it's supposed
它早就已经开始见效了。
to It's already playing out.
这事儿太罕见了，真没发生过这样的情况。
That's one of, I don't, that's never, this has never happened before.
没错。
No.
别走开，后面还有更精彩的。
Stay tuned for that.
咱们倒回去看看。
Let's rewind.
来梳理一下他们的营销策略。
Let's go through the marketing.
对。
Yeah.
当年我们和Raw、Bum一起创业的时候，跟五年前大多数公司起步的方式一样，全靠网红带货。
With Raw and Bum, you know, the way we started the company really is the same way you used to see companies start, four or five years ago, it was just influencer backed.
我们那时候一分钱都没有。
We didn't have any cash.
我们根本不知道自己在做什么，完全是边做边摸索。
We didn't know what we were doing and we just figured it out along the way.
当时坦白说，马特和我合伙经营着一家叫Revive的维生素公司，到现在我们还拥有它。
So being fully transparent at that time, Matt and myself owned a vitamin company called Revive and we still own it.
但那时候，不断有人建议我们进军运动营养领域。
But we were trying to, people were asking us to start a sports nutrition brand.
我们心想，除非能找到一个真正能立刻撑起这个品牌的代言人，否则我们绝不会轻易入局。
And we were like, we're not going get into this world unless we have someone who can really like, just, we can own it immediately.
说实话，运动营养这个圈子已经太饱和了。
Let's be honest, the sports nutrition world is very saturated.
成千上万的品牌卖的都是差不多的东西。
There's a thousand brands selling the same shit.
那我们怎么才能在这么多人里脱颖而出？
So how can we get in front of all of it?
我们很清楚，这个品牌的形象必须由克里斯来代表。
And we knew the face of the brand needed to be Chris.
我们要推出这位出色的人才
We're going to pop up this beautiful human
就在这里。
right here.
没错。
Yeah.
所以是克里斯，对吧？
So it was Chris, right?
我们把克里斯接到佛罗里达。
And we flew Chris to Florida.
我和克里斯聊得很投缘，就跟他说：我们想这么干。
We had a great conversation with Chris and we were like, Hey, look, this is what we want to do.
我觉得那时候，我们是第一家跟网红做股权合作的公司，对吧？
And I think at the time we were the first company to do equity deals with an influencer, right?
当时根本没人这么干。
Like we, no one was doing that.
那时候人人都在搞同样的套路，一个月一万、一万五的固定佣金。
Everyone was doing the same bullshit, 10,000 a month, 15,000 a month.
喏，这是你的提成。
You know, here's your commission.
为了方便理解，这是哪一年的事？
What year is this for context?
2021年。
2021.
说起来，这事是不是特别离谱？
So You know what's crazy with that too?
这可是个大手笔的交易。
That's a monster deal.
那时候你们在市场上有多大的议价能力？
How much leverage did you have in the marketplace then?
你们那时候还没那么大吧？
You weren't that big then, were you?
不，完全不是那样。
No, no, not at all.
是的。
Yeah.
我们当时什么名气都没有。
We were nobody.
那时候我们真的毫无名气。
You know, we were nobody back then.
做生意归根结底是人与人之间的事。
People do business with people, man.
这太了不起了。
That's amazing.
你给了他们
And you gave
一个非常划算的条件。
them a great deal.
当然。
Of course.
而且我觉得，我们当时真做了一件挺酷的事，因为现在你到处都能看到这种模式。
And we, I think we actually started something cool because you see it a lot now.
对吧？
Right?
你看现在好多品牌都在搞合作。
You see like a lot of the partnerships stuff happening.
比如赛斯·费罗斯和阿克松斯莱奇的合作。
You have Seth Feros with Axon Sledge.
现在体育营养领域好多品牌都在这么做，但对我们来说，效果特别好。
There's another, a lot of other brands doing it now in sports nutrition, but it worked out really well for us.
所以我们跟他说了这事，他马上就同意了。
So we had the conversation, he agreed to it.
我们选在奥林匹亚大赛前刚宣布了他，那真是个绝佳的时机。
We announced him like right before the Olympia, which was a great time to announce.
那时候他的YouTube视频每条都能拿到上百万的播放量，甚至超过一百万。
That's when his videos on YouTube were getting a million views at a time, more than a million views at a time.
品牌一下子就火了。
And the brand exploded.
从那年十月到十二月，销售额涨得特别惊人。
It was like a massive, massive revenue number from like October to December of that year.
正是这个表现，让维生素商店对我们产生了兴趣。
That's what kind of spiked the Vitamin Shoppe's interest for us.
我们当时的打算就是，不主动去追零售商。
And our goal with that was like, we're not going to go chase retailers.
我们只管把直接面向消费者的模式做扎实，等客户自己找上门，因为我们不想卷价格战。
We're just going to build this DTC machine until people come to us and ask for it because we don't want to play the price game.
也不想给零售商开那么高的返点。
We don't want to have to give them crazy margins on shelf.
我们要靠销量说话。
We want to win on velocity.
他们卖我们产品的利润可能只有百分之五十，但销量却是其他品牌的五倍。
So they may not make 50 points on our products, but they're going to sell five times more of our product than the next.
这样我们就能真正赚到钱了。
So we're going to be able to make some real money here.
所以一开始，为了让我有个概念，那个YouTube的长尾流量机器简直太夸张了。
So in the beginning, just so I have context, the YouTube evergreen machine is just absolutely insane.
你就这么把他推起来了。
So you just turned him on.
我猜在所有社交媒体上，都是自然融入的。
I imagine just across all social, just organically integrated in.
他还很自豪地公开说自己是公司的老板。
And then he was proud to say that he was an owner of the company.
刚开始的时候，没投过一分钱广告，什么都没有，全靠自然流量套利。
It started in the beginning, no no ads, no nothing, just organic arbitrage.
没错。
Correct.
这样的话，规模能有多大？
How big could it be with that?
有七位数吗？
Was it over, was it 7 figures?
是的，没错。
Oh yeah.
对，当然。
Yeah, yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
就靠这个，收入达到了七位数。
It was 7 figures with that.
关键是，很多人很难理解，为什么品牌拥有一个让人印象深刻的面孔这么重要——如果你的代言人形象好，其他网红愿意以低得多的价钱跟你合作。
And the cool thing about that, and this is where people really, really have a hard time understanding how important having like that face is for your brand is if you have a good face for the brand, other influencers want to be a part of it for way less money.
在克里斯加入之前，我们找网红合作时，他们开的价简直离谱。
So when we were trying to go get influencers before Chris, they were asking for all kinds of crazy numbers.
我每个月要六千。
I want 6,000 a month.
我每个月要七千。
I want 7,000 a month.
我每个月要一万。
I want 10,000 a month.
但后来克里斯来了，还有乔丹。
But then once Chris came on, Jordan.
大家都想和迈克尔·乔丹合作。
And he's everyone wants to play with Michael Jordan.
于是那些同样的网红又回来找我，说：‘给我三千、两千五也行。’
So those same influencers are coming back saying, oh, I'll take three, I'll take 2,500.
我知道这个品牌肯定要火了，我就想搭上这班车。
I know this brand is going be massive now, so I just want to be a part of it.
这才是你赢的地方。
And that's where you win.
我们在打造这个品牌的时候，从一开始克里斯就说过，他想先出面当个代言人，把这事推起来。
Building out, you know, we always had this idea and Chris from day one always said, you know, I want to be the face of the brain for a little bit to get this thing going.
但迟早有一天，我想退出来，不再亲自打理。
But there's going be a point in time where I want to step away from this.
我希望这个品牌能超越我个人，无论在哪个方面都独立存在。
And I want this brand to be bigger than me when it comes to, you know, everything.
真有远见。
Smart man.
完全没错。
A 100%.
而且，关键人物风险，对吧？
And again, key man risk, right?
我们也很在意这一点，因为我们知道接下来要面对的是……
We wanted that too because we knew going to Do
你有商业背景吗？
have business background?
我的意思是，到这时候他早就
Mean, I'm sure at this point he's way
远远超越了普通人的水平，做事特别有条理，分析能力超强。
away He's from very intelligent and he's very like analytical in like anything he does.
克里斯是个天才。
Chris is a mind.
他总爱对任何事刨根问底。
He's always questioning everything.
他好奇心特别强。
He's very curious.
什么事他都要问清楚：是什么、在哪、怎么做的、什么时候、为什么。
He wants to know what, where, how, when, why.
刚开始他特别依赖我带他，但后来他自己就慢慢上道了，生意也做得越来越成功。
And I think he relied on me a lot in the beginning to help guide him, but then he kind of took it on his own and really started to be very, very successful in business himself.
这本来就是我们的计划。
But that was the plan.
这个计划执行得完美无缺。
And the plan was executed flawlessly.
你想想，如果现在回头看，克里斯在销售业绩上甚至都不是我们最顶尖的。
You know, if you look back now, Chris isn't even our number one athlete when it comes to sales.
他就是这样，这正是我们想要的。
He kind of just That's the dream.
这正是我们想要的。
That's the dream.
这正是我们想要的。
That's the dream.
没错。
Yeah.
所以，根据你刚才说的，CAC套利应该是自然而然地带动了其他达人加入。
So CAC arbitrage organically, I would imagine on the back of that per what you said, get other influencers.
而且你根本没在投Meta广告。
And you're not even driving meta.
然后我猜，迟早也会轮到抖音。
And then I imagine at some point meta.
那现在呢？
What about now?
现在的情况是怎样的？
What does now look
什么样？
like?
现在完全不一样了，老兄。
Now is a totally different animal, man.
现在具体是什么样子？
What does it look like right now?
现在全是抖音，老兄。
So now is TikTok, man.
抖音就是新的付费媒体渠道。
TikTok is the new fucking paid media source.
整个流程就是通过影响者种草，推到产品，再带到TikTok上。
It's all influential seeding to product to TikTok.
TikTok的影响力会自然溢出到亚马逊。
TikTok kind of has a spillover to Amazon.
D2C模式还在，但我认为TikTok才是真正的新型D2C。
D2C is still in play, but like, I would argue that TikTok is absolutely the new D2C.
从D2C到亚马逊，再到线下零售。
D2C to Amazon to retail.
如果现在有人要创业做品牌，这就是你该选的模式，也是你该全力推进的模式。
I think if anyone's starting a brand today, that's the model you pick and that's the model you run with.
所以，如果我们走的是DTC加TikTok，再慢慢引流到亚马逊和零售渠道，那你现在主要花在哪儿？比如，你大概怎么分配？
So if we got DTC TikTok with a drip to Amazon and then retail, are you spending more on, like, give me like
举个例子，要是画个饼图，我们80%的广告预算都砸在TikTok上。
a little- Like if you have a pie chart, I spend 80% of our money on TikTok for ads.
是花在广告上，还是给网红免费寄产品，再靠佣金赚钱？
For ads or for giving free product to influencers and then win on affiliate?
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