第9集 - ChatGPT Atlas与网页浏览的新纪元

因此我们将这些控件整合到chattypuji.com的着陆页上，既让用户感到熟悉，又能以他们习惯的方式发挥作用。

And so we brought those controls into the landing page of chattypuji.com so that it would be both familiar to people but also useful in the way that they're used to.

我们希望确保用户不会感到过于陌生，不想让他们为了成功使用这个产品而学习太多新东西。

We wanted to make sure people didn't feel like they're so out of, that we didn't want people to have to learn so many new things in order to be successful using this product.

我们希望他们能接触到熟悉的工具和功能，毕竟这些本来就很有用。

We wanted them to have a good dose of familiar tools and familiar sorts of things and anyways these are just useful.

对许多人来说，搜索和浏览器几乎密不可分，在构建这种体验时，我们必须深刻理解这一点。

For many people search and browser are just very connected almost one and the same and you know it's very important to internalize that as we're building this experience.

我认为这非常强大，之前提到过，当人们以常规方式搜索和使用浏览器时，他们也在学习——那里有一个会回应他们的模型。

I think it's very powerful that and I was touching on this before that as people search and use the browser in maybe a very normal way they're also learning about, that there's a model there that's going to respond to them.

所以你会在顶部获得一组标签，就像是能快速跳转到你目标页面的快捷链接。

So you get the a set of chips across the top which is like quick links to go to where you were trying to go perhaps.

这些不同的标签页可供点击，查看熟悉的不同信息子集，同时也会有这个模型的响应出现。

These different tabs where you can click on to see like familiar different kinds of subsets of information but also this model response coming in.

因此当你以常规方式使用产品时，你会开始了解到还有另一种方式，或者说这个产品提供的某种超能力。

And so you start to using a product in a normal way you start to learn that there's another way or that there's a superpower that this thing's providing.

其中部分只是人们习惯的常规聊天式体验，但并非所有人都充分运用了聊天功能。

And it's some of it is just the normal chatty PT experience that people are used to but not everybody's using chatty PT to the fullness.

所以当它成为体验的核心时，我们就有机会将其作为用户常规旅程的一部分呈现给他们。

And so when you and when it's core and central to the experience we have an opportunity to present that to people as part of their normal journey.

我觉得这真的很酷。

And I think that's really cool.

类似于侧边聊天功能，当然需要激活它，但它就在那里——询问ChatGPT，你可能会感到好奇，现在你解锁了超能力，但上下文就在那里。

Similar to side chat of course you have to activate it but it's right there ask chat GPT and you might be curious and now you kind of unlock the superpower but it's right there the context is there.

对我来说有趣的体验是刚开始使用的第一天。

Interesting experience for me was the very first day when I started using it.

我看着这个，试图理解：好吧，这基本上是一个整合了浏览器和ChatGPT的应用程序。

And I look at this, trying to understand, okay, this is basically, it's an app that has a browser and ChatGPT.

我们并不是简单地把这两样东西拼凑在一起。

It's not like we just sort of glued those things together.

更像是它们同时存在，并且与ChatGPT有着深度连接。

It's sort of like they're both there and there's a deep connection to the ChatGPT.

我让它帮忙，你能为亚马逊添加一个书签吗？

And I asked it to, could you add a bookmark for Amazon?

片刻之后，书签就出现了。

And then a moment later, the bookmark appeared.

那一刻真的很特别，当你理解到LLM深度掌握系统并能实现这类功能时

And that was a really kind of special moment to sort of understand what happens when you're the LLM deeply understands the system and is able to make those kinds of

我们对此感到非常兴奋。

We're very excited about this.

从概念转变的角度来看，我们正在进入一个新时代——你可以用任何方式告诉电脑你想要什么。

Think from a just like a conceptual transformation point of view, we're moving to a world where you can just tell the computer what you want in like whatever way you want to tell it.

用最简单的方式直接告诉它

Simplest way possible, And just tell

这对让更多人接触计算机的意义是极其深远的。

so what this means for making computing more accessible to more people is just like really profound.

就像公司的使命是让通用人工智能造福全人类。

And that's like the company's mission is to make AGI beneficial to all of humanity.

我们对此非常重视。

We take that really seriously.

我认为这种看似微小的计算方式变革，累积起来会产生更深远的影响。

And I think being able to transform computing in ways like this that might seem very small on face of it, they add up to something you know far more profound.

是的，我们为这类进展感到振奋。

And so yeah, that we're excited about that kind of thing.

我作为用户最初使用ChatGPT的体验，正是Ben所说的这种理念。

Some of my first experiences with ChatGPT as a user was really this idea Ben's talking about.

你知道，我原本很满足于坐在那里用谷歌搜索，但有时我真的不知道该输入什么搜索词。

You know I was comfortable happy just sitting there doing my Google searches but sometimes I didn't quite know what Google query to type in.

当我发现可以向ChatGPT提出一个表述不清的问题时，它却能理解我的意思，并给出能让我继续用谷歌搜索的答案。

And when I realized I could ask sort of a really poorly formed question to ChatGPT and it would come back with make some sense of what I asked, what I said, it would give me something that maybe now I could query Google for.

这就是我最初开始使用ChatGPT的经过，后来我逐渐意识到——为什么不一开始就直接问它呢？

And that's how I first started using ChatGPT and then I started to realize over time that like, oh, why am I not just asking it in the first place?

我觉得每个人面对新技术都会经历类似的适应过程，对吧？

You know and it's sort of, I think for people they all have like a, there's like a bit of a journey with new technology, right?

我们都是习惯的奴隶。

We're all creatures of habit.

我们习惯于既有的工作方式，熟悉的方法用起来总是得心应手。

We're used to the things the way we work and it works well for us the things we're used to.

因为习惯了，所以不觉得有问题。

We're used to it so it's not a problem.

但当你尝试新事物时，就会突然发现：原来还有更好的方法。

And but as you maybe explore something new you start to see, oh, there actually is a better way.

每个人的适应过程都不尽相同。

And for everybody that journey is a little different.

所以Atlas最让我兴奋的功能之一，就是在地址栏默认使用HTTP协议——这恰好符合我的大部分使用场景。

And so for me one of the things I was most excited about with Atlas was this idea that when you're typing into the address bar that the default is to HTTP because for me that's actually makes sense for most of what I'm gonna do.

这是其中

And this is one of

现在当我无法使用这个功能时，就会感觉到一种微妙的操作阻力。

these things where I feel like now when I don't have access to that, I feel like there's like this little bit of, friction.

现在操作更耗时了，因为我得先找到聊天GBT标签页，再开个浏览器，琢磨怎么操作。而用Atlas的话，直接新建标签页就能开始输入。

Like it takes longer now because then I've got to go find my chat GBT tab and another browser and like figure out how to get at that and do that whereas with Atlas you can just like open a new tab and start typing.

旧方法更依赖手动操作，现在这种方式我不需要太费心思组织问题，只要简单描述遇到的难题就行。

The old way was a much more manual way, this way is a much more I don't have to be as like clever about what I ask, I can just give some I have sort a problem.

对，遇到问题可以用更简单直白的方式说出来。

Yeah, have a problem, I can say it in a much more simple way.

我还在适应这种思维转换，要理解这不只是个网址搜索栏或关键词搜索框，而是能直接提问——比如'尼泊尔首都是哪'，而不仅限于跳转到谷歌搜索框。

I know that I'm still having trouble kind of context switching and understanding that it's not just a URL search bar or just an empty keyword search, whatever that literally I can ask it for things and not just have, know, what is the capital of Nepal and not just have that pop into a Google search box.

现在的情况是：输入网址会跳转网址，但也能直接输入查询内容来操作。

And that's the thing now, like, oh yeah, when I go type in the thing, if I type in the URL, I get the URL, but I can also type in kind of my query and do that.

不过这种改变仍需要时间适应。

But that's still taking me time to adjust.

嗯，就像...

Well, just as a,

作为通用原则，我认为某些模式其实反映了底层系统的局限性——毕竟人类终究无法完全理解这些。

a a general rule, like I find sometimes modes can be a reflection of some of the limitations of the system underneath that, you know, at the end of the day humans don't understand.

所以我们把这些功能设计的北极星标准是：能否直接引导用户到达正确结果，而不需要用户纠结该选择哪种模式。

And so I think the North Star for us with so much of this stuff is can we just help you arrive at the right place, you know, regardless of you needing to know I should put it in this mode or I should put it in that mode.

这确实是核心难点所在。

Like that is sort of the struggle.

归根结底取决于你想如何使用这个工具。就像Darren之前说的，我们希望做到你只要进去，哪怕只有个模糊想法，它也能给出优质反馈。

It comes down to like how do you want to use this tool and so we want to make this thing something that, you know, if you just go in as Darren was saying before, you could just kind of tell it what you want, maybe this half formed thought and it will give you something good.

它会帮你理清问题所在。

It will help you figure out the problem.

当然，如果你是一个了解系统底层功能的用户，我们希望能为你提供调用这些功能的选项，以便降低使用门槛并帮助你。

And of course there are ways that, know, if you are a user that understands some of the underlying capabilities of the system, we want to give you the option to invoke those too to bring them down and help you.

这算是一种你可以获得的效率提升，但系统当然不应该要求你掌握所有这些类似咒语般的操作。

And that's sort of an efficiency gain that you can get but certainly the system shouldn't require that you know all of those sort of incantations.

它应该能够直接理解你的需求并给出好的反馈。

It should be able to just take what you say to it and give you something good.

是啊，这让我想起浏览器早期时代，那时人们会为搜索引擎安装工具栏，意味着浏览器上又多了一个搜索框对吧？

Yeah, think it reminds me back to like the early days of browsers in the era when people would install like a toolbar for their search engine and you know that meant they had yet another box on their browser, right?

Firefox就有一个专门用于网页搜索的独立搜索框。

And Firefox had a dedicated search box for doing your web search.

但当时尽管人们已经非常习惯且适应这种模式——你知道的，一个框输入网址，另一个框输入搜索内容。

But back then, as much as people were very used to that and very comfortable with it, know, you have one box to type URLs and one box to type search queries.

当我们开发Chrome时就想：真的需要两个框吗？

When we were working on Chrome, we're like, have two boxes?

为什么用户要停下来思考该往哪个框里输入？

Why do people have to stop and think about which box to type it into?

直接给他们一个框就够了。

Just give them one box.

现在你看Chrome的地址栏就是这样的设计对吧？

Now, if you look at Chrome, that's what its URL bar looks like, right?

仅保留一个输入框，这已成为行业标准。

Just one box and that's become the industry standard.

不过即使在Chrome的新标签页上，实际上还是有两个输入框。

But even on Chrome's new tab page, there's actually two boxes.

顶部有一个地址栏，中间这个方框可能是大家熟悉的谷歌搜索框，对吧？

There's one for the address bar at the top and then there's this box in the middle that's the maybe comfortable familiar Google box, right?

我们想要做并努力推动的是这样一个整体理念：嘿，你可能要进行对话，想从模型开始，可能对导航查询感兴趣，但实际上你可能在开始输入前都不确定自己的意图。

What we wanted to do and we kind of pushed ourselves with is like this whole topic of like, hey, you might have a conversation, you wanna start with the model, you might be interested in navigation, navigational query, but really you might not make up your mind about what your intent is until you start typing.

而只有一个搜索框会简单得多。

And just one box is a lot simpler.

所以当你打开Atlas时，新标签页上只有一个搜索框。

So when you open up Atlas, you just have one box on the new tab page.

这是从设计角度我们真正努力实现的一个目标。

That was something from a design perspective that we really tried to achieve.

我认为我们做到了，这让整个系统对用户来说更简单一些。

And I think we were able to, and it keeps the whole system a little bit simpler for people.

这可能有点不寻常，不是人们习惯的方式，但我认为随着时间的推移他们会喜欢上它。

It might be a little unusual and not what people are used to but I think over time they'll get to like it.

你最喜欢哪些功能？有哪些是你很高兴能实现的？

What was some of your favorite features, some of the things you're glad you're able to implement?

哦天哪，你知道，每当有机会开发新浏览器时都很有趣，特别是在已经开发过好几个之后，你就有机会在某些方面重新开始。

Oh man, you know, it's interesting whenever you get a chance to build a new browser, having worked on quite a few, you get a chance to sort of start over and reset on certain things.

不是所有方面，因为我认为一个核心矛盾在于人们已经习惯了现有浏览器的样子。

Not everything because I think one of the core tensions is that people are used to their browser the way it is.

但你确实有机会重新思考某些方面。

And but you do have a chance to rethink some things.

所以我参与开发的功能之一就是滚动标签页功能。

So one of the features I worked on was the scrolling tabs feature.

这个想法源于一个观察：如果所有新标签页都从左侧或单侧打开，浏览体验可能会更好。

It kind of came from an insight of that, you know, life tab life could be a little better if maybe new tabs all started, all were inserted on the left or just on one side.

如果你习惯在浏览器中固定标签页（这是个较高级的用法，可能很多人不知道Chrome/Safari等浏览器支持将标签页固定在标签栏），固定标签会始终位于左侧。比如固定了Gmail标签后，点击链接时新网页就会在固定标签旁打开。

You know, if you're a user who pins tabs in your browser which is a pretty advanced use case, maybe a lot of people don't know that you can pin tabs to the tab strip in Chrome or Safari or other browsers but it is a common thing and if you pin a tab it'll be pinned on the left side and whenever and suppose that was like a Gmail tab when you click links those new web pages would open just adjacent to that pin tab.

如果点击加号按钮，新标签页会在右侧打开。

If you press the plus button, the new tabs would appear off to the right.

实际使用中，你整天都在Gmail打开链接、点击加号按钮在右侧新建标签，导致中间堆积了大量旧标签。

And what ends up happening is you're working throughout your day, you're going to Gmail opening a URL from there, you're hitting the plus button opening buttons, tabs on the right and you're sort of accumulating old tabs in the middle.

于是要清理这些标签变得很麻烦——得从中部开始关闭右侧所有标签，最后仍会留下大量混乱。

And so, it becomes a little bit painful to, close all of the tabs to the right from the middle, know to clean up those tabs and you just end up with a lot of clutter.

所以我们开发了滚动标签页功能来优化管理，这虽非AI功能，但重构浏览器时正是重新设计这些基础功能的好时机。

So scrolling tabs was one of the innovations that we worked on to try to make tab management better and it's like, it's not an AI feature but it's like when you have this opportunity to rethink browsers, it's an opportunity to rethink some of these primitives and try some different things.

Mini是重要生产力工具，找到这些优化点确实能...没错

Mini is a major productivity tool so finding these wins can be like really Yeah

后来我才意识到：当浏览器能自然支持海量标签页时，某些功能就会自动解锁。

and we think about one of the things that I came to realize and appreciate only later is that if you have a browser that more naturally scales to having tons and tons of tabs it means that certain kinds of things get unlocked for you.

多数人可能都知道可以搜索已打开的特定标签页。

So everybody's or many people are probably familiar with the ability to search for a specific tab that you might have open.

很多浏览器都有Command+Shift+A快捷键或对应按钮。

There's a command shift A or a button for that in many browsers.

我们的系统通过滚动标签页设计，让你能积累大量标签页而不造成视觉干扰。

With our system that a lot with scrolling tabs and the fact that it can allow for a lot of tabs to be accumulated without them all being in your face.

你依然可以搜索并找到这些旧标签页。

You can still search across them and find these old tabs.

某种程度上，这就像是浏览器中的操作历史记录，你可以通过熟悉的命令（比如按command+shift+a）轻松搜索，既方便又不会显得杂乱。

So in a way it's like this history of things you've done in your browser is there for you to search in a very familiar way because it's your command shift a, it's right there and you can have that capability without it being cluttered.

达伦正在讨论标签页搜索功能。

Darren's talking about tab search.

有时候吧。

Sometimes.

在标签页中搜索，你只需输入关键词就能找到想要的标签页。

Search over your tabs, you can just type and that will find the tab that you want.

但我觉得这个功能最有趣的地方在于你不需要关闭标签页。

But I think the most interesting thing about this feature is the fact that you don't need to close tabs.

没错。

Right.

所以最终你可能会像我一样——我的浏览器里开着上千个标签页，这在以前是难以想象的。

And so you can end up having, you know, I think my browser I've got like well over a thousand tabs open and I just wouldn't think for that to be possible.

你可能会觉得这样会有问题，对吧？

Or if you might think that that'd be a problem, right?

但其实不会。

But it's not.

是的，因为系统会帮你管理内存。

No, because the system manages the memory for you.

对。

Yeah.

现在这个滚动标签页功能默认是关闭的。虽然我们觉得它很神奇，我个人也是这个功能的忠实粉丝，但部分原因在于它和用户习惯的操作方式有些不同。

Now this is the scrolling tab feature that is not on by default and part of the reason why it's not on by default as much as we think it's magical and I'm a huge fan of this thing we built, it is also a little different than what people are used to.

我们希望用户在接触这款集成了各种AI功能的浏览器时，不必一次性学习太多新东西。但最令人惊叹的是，当你允许同时打开数千个标签页时，不仅可以通过标签搜索再次访问它们，模型还能感知这些标签。

And we wanted people to not have to learn so many new things all at once when they're approaching this browser that is bringing all these AI capabilities but one of the amazing things when you have allowed for thousands of tabs to be open means not only do you get to access it again with tab search but the model can see them.

这个模型能感知这些标签页。

The model can see these tabs.

这意味着你的工作集可以非常庞大，远超你自然记忆的容量。

It means your working set can be very large, larger than what you might keep in your head naturally.

但你知道某些内容就在那里，所以会让模型去查找，它就能再次与那些标签页进行交互。

But you know that there was something there so you're gonna ask the model for it and it can go and interact with those tabs again.

我认为这确实相当了不起。

And I think that's actually pretty amazing.

如果回答这个问题时不提及Atlas的基础功能——即Ask Chat Tbt侧边栏——那就是我的失职。

I would be remiss if I didn't mention for this question as well just the basic feature of Atlas which is the Ask Chat Tbt sidebar.

这是我每天使用浏览器时都会用到的实用功能。

This is something I get some value out of every single day as I use the browser.

我随时打开它，遇到过长页面就让其总结内容，或是阅读文章时判断其实际价值

I pull that thing open, I ask it to summarize a page if it's too long or I want to figure out like if I'm reading an article like how it really matters

对

to

特别是对我个人的意义。当我对世界时事有疑问时，它能主动调研并带回数据、事实和图表。

me in particular or if I have a question about something that's going on in the world, it can go off and do some research for me and come back with stats and facts and figures.

网购时我用它确认是否真的找到了最佳优惠。

I've used it when I'm online shopping to make sure I'm looking at what really is the best deal on something that I'm looking at.

我还用它启动代理任务，自动化处理部分工作流程。

I've used it to help, spin up agent tasks to go off and automate some of my productivity workflows.

我让它帮我创建Google表单，用来测试同事对浏览器新功能设计的最佳方案。

I've had it build Google forms for me to help me like quiz my coworkers on the best way to design new features for the browser.

我特别喜欢这个例子，因为如果我没记错的话，你说你还让侧边聊天帮忙构思了调查问卷的框架。

I really like that example because if I remember correctly, you said you also asked, you asked side chat to help come up with the outline of the survey.

然后你说：'嘿，能直接帮我做成Google表单吗？'

And then you said, hey, can you just put it into a Google form for me?

然后它就完成了。

And it did it.

这真的很酷。

And that's really cool.

是的，我们之前讨论过要让ChatGPT的能力伴随你在网络上的每个角落。

Yeah, so it's just, we talked before about bringing the power of ChatGPT with you everywhere you go on the web.

我觉得这个侧边栏就像让ChatGPT坐在你肩头，随时准备在你需要时提供建议。

And I think that sidebar really it's like having ChatGPT sitting on your shoulder just right there to help give you some advice wherever you might need it.

有时候甚至是很简单的事，比如我在Slack里看到有人分享了一段外语内容。

And sometimes even just simple things like I was in Slack and there was some somebody shared some text that was in another language.

我只需选中文字右键点击侧边聊天，它就帮我翻译好了。

So I just selected it and I right click and ask side chat about it and it translated it for me.

这比手动复制粘贴方便太多了，对吧？

And it was so much easier than having to, you don't have to sit there and copy paste, right?

目前为止我最喜欢的是代理模式下的应用——虽然不便点名，但某家大型云服务商经常让人搞不清自己运行了哪些服务，月底收到账单时总是一头雾水：'我以为已经关掉这个了'。

My favorite use of that so far with the in the agent mode and I won't name the cloud provider but it's a very big company that often you find out you run a lot of services and you forget what those services are and at the end of the month you get a bill and it's a very confusing bill because you're trying to figure out, I thought I shut this down.

难道这些不都是吗？

Isn't this all of them?

嗯，其中一些有点复杂，或者存在时间更长，试图解析它们就像读苏联拖拉机手册一样困难。

Well some of them are a little bit, or maybe been around longer and trying to parse through that's like reading the Soviet tractor manual.

我走进去说，嘿，我收到了这张账单，我觉得自己应该还年轻，不知道发生了什么，你能帮我看看吗？

And I went in and I said, hey, I got this bill, I think I should have been young, I don't know what's going on, can you help me with it?

我看着它在网站上导航，转到页面，找到我正在操作的不同内容，向我解释这项服务的功能。

And I watched it navigate through the website, go to the page, find the different things I was doing, explain to me what the service was doing.

我当时就想，我能关掉这个吗？

I'm like, can I shut this down?

我说，对，关掉它。

I'm like, yeah, shut it down.

就这样省下了每月100美元的开支。

And that was like a $100 a month bill that was just saved through.

哇，这真是太棒了。

Wow, that's really, that's awesome.

我还有个类似的经历，最近刚做完一些医学检查。

Another one I had as well, I was actually I had some some medical tests done recently.

有时候医生要过段时间才能回来给你解释检查结果的含义。

And sometimes it can take a while for the doctor to come back and explain to you like what they mean.

在此期间，患者门户网站上有那些医生术语的资料可以查阅。

And then in the meantime, you have the patient portal there and you can access the sort of doctor language stuff there.

但我根本看不懂那些内容。

And I can't read that.

那不是用正常的英语写的。

It's not written in English, normal English.

你可以拥有这个可以提问的东西，它会告诉你这对你意味着什么。

And you can have the thing you can ask and that will tell you kind of like what what that means for you.

我发现这真的很有帮助。

I found that to be really helpful.

是的。

Yeah.

所以它能帮你省钱，帮你找到一些答案。

So saving you money, helping you get some answers.

这个东西感觉非常非常...我相当确信这将是人们与信息互动方式日益增长的趋势。

This thing feels very, very I like I'm pretty convinced that this is the way increasingly the way that people will interact with information.

或者你正在使用一些非常流行但复杂的人力资源工具之类的，然后你会想，那个功能在哪里来着？

Or you're using some, very popular yet complicated HR tool or something like And you're like, where's that thing again?

它当然已经为你研读了手册，可以指引你找到方法。

It of course has studied the manual for you and can go and show you the way.

这有点...

I It's kind of

我觉得我花了很长时间才意识到，自从有了iPhone后，我口袋里就一直装着相机和手电筒。

feel like it took me a long time to realize that once I had an iPhone that I always had a camera and a flashlight in my pocket.

有很多时候我会想，我在商店看到的这个东西叫什么来着？

And there are many situations where I'm like, what was the name of this thing I saw in the store?

就像，你本可以拍张照片的，或者天啊这里好黑。

It's like, you could have taken a photo, you know, or man, it's dark.

就像你其实带着手电筒一样。

It's like you got a flashlight.

我觉得这些工具蕴含了巨大的潜力，我们甚至看到在搜索领域，有些人已是搜索高手，而对其他人来说这完全是个谜。

And I feel with these tools, there's a lot of capability there that we even saw that to a search, you know, some of us were power users of search and other people are, was a complete mystery.

你认为我们会看到更快的加速吗？人们会开始分享并理解如何使用这个工具吗？

And do you think we'll see a faster acceleration here that people are going to start sharing and understand how to use this?

是的，我认为Atlas目前所处的阶段是：我们觉得这是个非常强大的工具，但我们还不清楚人们会以哪些方式使用它，这点很像互联网早期的情况。

Yeah, I think the stage that we're in with Atlas right now is we think this is a really powerful tool but we don't know all the ways in which people will use it and this kind of like the internet in that sense.

所以我们选择现在发布的原因之一，就是想观察人们如何使用它，听取反馈——哪些地方好用，哪些地方糟糕需要改进。但相信随着时间的推移我们会更了解这些。

And so one of the reasons why we wanted to get this out, you know, when we did is we just want to see how people use it and hear from people you know where it works well, where it sucks and needs to get improved, know, but I think over the course of time we'll get a better feel for that.

我也认为我们需要帮助解释更多使用场景，比如什么时候使用它最合适。

I also think we'll need to help explain in more cases like when the right time to use it could be.

因为我觉得创造魔法般的产品是一回事，而让更多人能在更多场景中真正使用这种魔法是另一回事。

Because I think there's a part of building something that feels like magic instead of making that magic real for more people in more situations.

我们不想总是依赖用户自己判断'我该在这个时候提这个问题'。

And we don't want to have to rely on people to always think I should ask this question at this time.

是啊，这很容易理解，我们都是习惯的奴隶。

Yeah, it's really easy to just, we're creatures of habits.

我们用浏览器的方式固定不变，使用电脑的方式也一成不变。

We use the browser the way we use the browser, we use our computers the way we use them.

我们并不总能意识到存在更优方案或更高效的做法。

We don't always realize when there's a better way to do something or a more efficient thing that we could be doing.

这让我想起最初学习使用ChatGeepsie时的感受。

I feel this way about when, you know, the process of learning how to use ChatGeepsie in the first place.

就像突然顿悟：哦，这个问题我直接问模型就好了。

It's like, it's just like realization, oh, I should just ask the model for that.

这会节省我的时间，但需要一点时间。

It'll save me time, but it takes a little while.

对人们来说存在一个临界点，在他们的旅程中的某个时刻，他们将开始学习如何使用这些工具。

And there's a bit of a tipping point for people where they start at some point in their journey, they're going to learn how to use these tools.

可能会有一些早期采用者，他们可以示范方法、摸索解决方案并分享这些想法。

And there might be some people who are early adopters and they can show the way and figure things out and share those ideas.

某种程度上，我认为很多人还没有找到最佳方式来使用这些工具。

Also it's kind of like, I think a lot of people haven't yet found their way to how to use these tools in the best way.

我发现自己仍在试图关闭标签页，因为你知道，我开始使用浏览器时还处于会弹出'标签页过多'提示的时代。

I find myself still trying to shut down tabs because I'm still, you know, I started using browsers in the era of getting the pop up message, have too many browser tabs open.

是的。

Yes.

现在，内部的计算能力、性能和管理这些方面已经非常先进了。

And now the, you know, compute and the capability and the management internally, these things is way advanced.

所以我想到，在很多方面我还没有做到最优化的...

And so I think about like, you know, I'm not optimized in many ways to

另外，我们浏览器的一个非AI功能是借鉴了移动浏览器的做法，认识到笔记本电脑的计算资源其实并不真正受限。

do Also another like, say non AI feature of our browser was that we kind of took a page out of the playbook of mobile browsers recognizing that, you know, your laptops computing resources are not really limited.

你有需要关注的电池续航，所以我们限制了实际由活动网页支持的标签页数量。

You have a battery you care about, you know, so we put a limit on how many, tabs would actually be backed by a live webpage.

不同于传统桌面浏览器试图降低那些长期未使用的后台网页的成本，我们选择直接关闭它们。

Instead of trying to, might be the more traditional approach that desktop browsers would take which is to just try to mitigate the cost of those background web pages that you haven't used in forever, we will just close them down.

如果你返回那个标签页，它会重新打开。我们保持合理限制，并应用一种较为智能的缓存算法，确保你关心的标签页保留在内存中。

And if you go back to that tab, it'll get reopened and we keep a reasonable limit there and we, apply, you know, somewhat of a clever ish caching algorithm to try to be smart about keeping making sure that the tabs you care about are kept in memory.

这样可以减轻你电脑的负担。

So as to sort of lessen the burden on your computer.

你可能还会注意到Atlas重启速度极快，这是由于其结构设计——OWL进程与Atlas进程分离，OWL是我们对Chromium的封装。

You might notice also with Atlas that it restarts super fast when you restart Atlas, because of the way it's structured, the OWL process is separate from the Atlas process, OWL being our embedding of Chromium.

因此两者可以并行启动，我们就能快速重启Atlas并保留所有标签页及其相关数据，只是网页内容尚未加载。

So the two can start up in parallel and we can restart Atlas very quickly with all your tabs and the data associated with them, but the web pages aren't loaded yet.

当你点击标签页时，网页内容会重新加载。这种方式让整个系统保持快速轻量。由于Atlas是独立于OWL构建的应用，Atlas控制OWL，OWL将网页渲染数据投射到Atlas中，而Atlas本身仍能保持相对轻量的Swift应用特性。

And when you click on them, it'll bring those web pages back, but this way the whole system can stay fast, lightweight and as we were able to build Atlas as a separate application from this from OWL, Atlas is controlling OWL, OWL is projecting data into the rendering of web pages into Atlas but Atlas itself can stay a relatively thin swift application.

为什么选择Chromium？

Why Chromium?

这个问题问得好。

That's a fantastic question.

我在原Twitter平台上回答过这个问题：主要是考虑到网页兼容性。

I answered this question on the site formerly known as Twitter by saying that you know web compatibility.

现实情况是，无论好坏，许多网站确实只针对Chromium进行优化。

So it turns out unfortunately or for better or worse a lot of websites are only really designed to work with Chromium.

某些主流网站的功能——具体就不点名了——如果你不使用基于Chromium的浏览器，这些功能根本不可用。

There are features of major websites which I won't get into naming names but that are just not present if you're not using Chromium based browser.

另一个原因是Chromium扩展生态。

And the other reason is, Chromium extensions.

基于Chromium构建的扩展程序非常流行，当你在Chromium基础上开发浏览器时，这些扩展就能直接使用。

Extensions built on top of Chromium are very popular and when you build your browser on top of Chromium it means those extensions will just work.

因此我们想确保构建的浏览器首先能满足用户需求：支持所有他们关心的网站，并完整支持这些网站的所有功能。

And so we wanted to make sure that we were building a browser that first off works for people that all the websites they care about will be supported and all the features of those websites will be supported.

我们希望确保他们能够安装任何他们关心且习惯使用的扩展程序

And we want to make sure that they could install any of the extensions that they care about and that they're used to using

在他们的浏览器中。

in their browser.

而且似乎非技术人员听到Chrome、Chromium时，并不理解这其中有着非常深厚的渊源，甚至可以追溯得更远。

And it seems like there's also, kind of non technical people hear Chrome, they hear Chromium but not understand there's like really deep lineage that even goes further back.

你还有WebKit、KDE等等这些。

You also have WebKit and KDE and whatnot.

所以我想说的是，你知道，社区里有很多人对于看到新渲染引擎的出现感到非常兴奋。

So what I'd say is, and you know, think there's like a lot of excitement for, you know, from among the community for for to see like new rendering engines come about.

这多年来也确实是网络DNA的一部分。

And that's certainly been part of the DNA of the web too over the years.

但与此同时，就像Darren说的，当你开发一个新浏览器而用户还不多时，你只希望网络能像人们现在认知的那样运作。

At the same time, just like Darren said, you know, when you build a new browser and you don't have that many people using your product just yet, it's you kind of just want the web to work as people know it today.

实际上我们刚开始开发Chrome时也有同样顾虑——就像今天的Chromium拥有Blink这个从原有谱系中分离出来的独立渲染引擎。

And actually back when we were starting working on Chrome, we had the same concern like the, you know, Chromium today, you know, has Blink which is sort of its own rendering engine that sort of diverged from from that lineage.

但在那个时候，大家并不太愿意承担那样的风险。

But at that point, like there wasn't much appetite for taking risks like that.

因此Chromium渲染引擎是基于WebKit的，也就是Safari的开源渲染引擎。

And so that the Chromium rendering engine is based on WebKit, which is the Safari rendering engine, which is open source.

而WebKit本身又是基于Linux世界早期一个叫KHTML的渲染引擎。

And that itself was based on an earlier rendering engine from from the Linux world called KHTML.

所以回溯这段历史确实很有意思。

And so yeah, it's really interesting to go back in time.

这样你就能理解这类开源项目是如何分叉和分支的。

So you can see how these sort of open source projects fork and branch and so on.

Chromium中也有来自Mozilla项目的代码。

There's code in Chromium that comes from the Mozilla project too.

追溯到1990年代，你会发现这是真的。

Going back to the 1990s, you can find this This is true.

这一传承脉络。

This lineage.

所以浏览器就像是这种随时间累积的技术千层糕。

So browsers are this sort of this layer cake of technology that's been built up over time.

而我们真正想要创新的，是AI模型介入的下一层，以及它如何与基础层进行表达和交互。

And really where we are wanting to innovate is that next layer where the AI model comes in and how it's articulating articulating and interacting with the foundational layers.

基于Chromium开发就像给了我们一个众所周知的坚实基础。

And so far as building on top of Chromium is like gives us this well known foundation.

我们以与常规浏览器截然不同的方式在Chromium基础上构建。

We built on top of Chromium in a very different way than normally browsers would.

大多数浏览器只是分叉Chromium的UI，或在Chromium上叠加另一层UI，但仍运行在Chromium同一进程中。

Most browsers are just taking Chromium and forking the UI or layering another UI on top of Chromium but running right in the same process as Chromium.

这意味着当Chromium工作时，你的应用程序就无法工作。

What that means is that, if Chromium is doing work, your application is not doing work.

因此在我们用OWL搭建的架构中，Atlas能够与所有网页渲染相关的活动并行工作，这非常酷。

And so in the structure that we set up with OWL, it means that Atlas is able to work in parallel with the rest of all the activities related to rendering the web and producing web pages, which is pretty cool.

那如果浏览器部分崩溃了呢？

So if the browser part crashes?

是的，如果OWL部分崩溃了，如果那个组件出了问题，那么Owl（抱歉是Atlas）可以重启Owl。

Yeah, if the OWL part crashes, if something goes wrong with that piece, then Owl, sorry Atlas can restart Owl.

这其实是个非常有趣的事情，因为我想起当初我们设计Chrome时就有这样的理念：网页可能会崩溃，但浏览器应该保持运行。要知道Chromium已经发展成为一个非常复杂的网页平台，它本身变得超级复杂。而现在Atlas就像个非常轻量级的外框，真正聚焦于核心生产力场景——使用浏览器时结合ChatGPT这样的工具，你可以随时在任何页面上调用它，这才是它的重点。

So that's actually a really interesting thing because I remember back when we were originally doing the design of Chrome, there was this thought of like, well the webpage might crash and therefore your browser should be around and then because you know, Chromium has sort of become this very sophisticated platform for web pages, it itself has become super complicated and now like Atlas is this very lightweight frame around the outside that really is about like that core productivity use case of using a browser with ChatGeBT kind of as this tool that you can bring down onto any page and that's really where its focus is.

而像Chromium，我...

Whereas like the Chromium, I.

呃...

E.

Owl组件则可以专注于成为那个平台，这样两部分实际上...它们对彼此的问题都有很强的容错能力。

Owl piece is able to focus on being that platform and then both parts are not really they're resilient to each other's, you know, difficulties.

确实如此。

This is true.

从这个意义上说。

In that sense.

对。

Yeah.

其实还有个关于OpenAI的有趣事实，以及我们构建的这个系统的优势。

Just actually like another fun fact about like OpenAI and the benefit of the system that that we've built.

每个加入OpenAI的工程师第一天就会提交代码合并。想想Chromium作为平台有多庞大，它确实非常强大，但代码量巨大，需要很长时间才能把所有代码下载到你的设备上。

Every engineer that starts at OpenAI merges code on their first day and if you think about, you know, how massive Chromium is as a platform, you know, it's really super powerful, but it's a lot of code, it takes a while to get all of that code onto your device.

就是稍微有点复杂。

Just a little bit complicated.

对，而且编译也需要很长时间。

Yeah and it takes a while to build it all.

因此我们通常会让新员工在下午入职，等他们完成所有入职培训后，就需要提交代码变更。

And so we tend to get our new hires in the afternoon as they've gone through all of their onboarding training and then they have to merge a change.

所以要在第一天下午就完成代码检出、构建并修改代码确实很有挑战性，但我们的流程设计让他们无需这么做——你可以直接修改Atlas端的代码，快速完成检出和构建。

So to be able to check out all of that code and build it and then make a change to the code in your first afternoon can be pretty tough if you have to do all of that but because we have structured this in a way that they don't have to, you can go and make a change to the Atlas side, get that checked out and built very, very quickly.

我们的工程师能够立即投入工作，在入职首日就提交代码合并，甚至当天就能发布新功能。

Our engineers are able to be productive right away and merge code on their first day and like ship features in their

第一天。

first day.

与此相关的是，每当启动新项目时，我们都需要做出新的技术选型。

Related to this, so always when you're starting a new project, get to make new technology choices.

就像当初开发Chrome时，我们得以探讨：什么是最前沿的代码构建方式？

Get to when we were starting Chrome, we got to say, is the latest and greatest way to build code?

对吧？

Right?

时间快进到开发Atlas时，我们又在思考：开发macOS原生应用的最新最佳实践是什么？

Fast forward to starting Atlas, we're like, what's the latest and greatest way to build a native app on macOS?

所以我们当然会选择Swift语言。

So of course we're gonna be using Swift.

在适合的场景下我们会采用Swift UI框架。

We're gonna be using Swift UI where where it makes sense.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且我们将使用所有这些工具——应用在Xcode中构建，完全遵循大家熟悉的开发模式。

And And we're gonna be using all these, the app is built in Xcode and just done in a very familiar way.

所以那些习惯用Swift开发的人，可能是因为他们在开发iOS应用，他们可以立即投入工作，因为这并不是一个陌生的代码库或系统，你懂的。

So people who are used to doing Swift development, maybe because they're building iOS apps, they can come in and just be instantly productive because this is not a foreign code base, not a foreign system, you know.

但同时它又利用了Chromium的强大功能，这本身非常复杂。

And yet it's harnessing the power of Chromium at the same time, which is super complicated.

从外部来看，很多人会拿它和Go比较，说之前有Operator现在又推出ChatGPT Atlas，这会是他们真正重视的项目还是又一次实验？

When you look at this from the outside, a lot of people draw comparisons to go, well, you know, there was operator and now they're doing ChatGPT Atlas, you know, is this going to be a real thing for them or is this another experiment?

浏览器，我认为是生产力的核心工具，是需要能够依赖的东西。

So a browser, you know, I think it's super core tool for productivity and it's something that you need to be able to count on.

因此我始终认为这更像是一项长期投资。

And so my view for this has always been that this is like a long term investment.

这就是我们对待它的方式。

And so that's the way that we're approaching it.

我们已经发布了一系列功能，算是第一阶段。

There's a set of functionality that we've launched, which is sort of like the first phase.

如果回顾浏览器历史，我会说这就像是新时代网页浏览的Netscape 1.0版本。

If I come back to browser history, I sort of say it's the Netscape one point zero, if you like, of this new era of web browsing.

未来会有很多改进，我们会根据初期反馈和研究成果，逐步推出大量新功能。

So there's going be a lot of future improvements to come, features that we're building because people have told us about it from the initial set of feedback, things that we come up with, you know, through our partnership with research, a whole host of new functionality that will come out over the course of time.

我们还听到用户希望在不同平台上使用它。

The other thing that we hear from folks is they want to see this across different platforms.

是的。

Yeah.

基本上就是说这个浏览器在我的Windows设备或手机上还不可用之类的。

Basically, this browser isn't available for my Windows device or on my phone or that sort of thing.

这些正是我们正在思考和努力实现的事情。

So these are things that we are we're thinking about and working on.

我们有一个长期的改进路线图。

So there's like a long road map of enhancements.

因此我们希望人们能对产品会随时间推移而改善充满信心。

And so we want people to both feel confidence that this will get better over the course of time.

实际上我们每周推送更新时它都会变得更好。

Actually it gets better every week when we push an update.

用户将在更多使用场景中逐渐看到这些改进。

And they will see it increasingly on more of the surfaces where they are.

这绝对是我们的一项长期投资。

So definitely a long term investment for us.

是的，我们把这个应用开发到了让OpenAI内部用户都开始享受使用它的程度。

Yeah, we got this app to the point where internally the users at OpenAI where we were seeing them enjoy this product.

当时我们收到的反馈类型是：

We were at a point where the kind of feedback we were getting was,

知道吗，

know.

为什么你们还没发布它？

Why haven't you shipped it yet?

对啊，为什么你们还没发布？

Yeah, why haven't you shipped it yet?

这正是我在想的，因为我们没有收到新的反馈了。

That's exactly what I was thinking because it's like we weren't getting new feedback.

我们意识到已经准备好发布这个产品了。

And we realized we're ready to ship this.

我们想与全世界分享这个。

We wanna share this with the world.

我们想听听其他人的使用体验。

We wanna hear how other people are experiencing it.

我认为这些反馈都非常棒。

And I think that this feedback has been all kinds of amazing.

显然有些人会抱怨缺少某些特定功能，比如阅读器模式。

Obviously there's been people who have their pet feature that's missing like when Reader mode.

为什么我不能操作？

How come I can't act?

Windows版本什么时候出？

Windows when?

但前几天我14岁的儿子回来说，他在学校的同学们超爱这个浏览器，我就追问他们具体喜欢什么功能？

But you know the other day my 14 year old son came back and he's like, oh man, my friends at school they love this browser you know kind of a thing and I was asking like really what do they love about it?

然后他就滔滔不绝地讲起同学们正在体验的各种AI功能。

Then he just was like talking about all the different AI features that they were checking out.

看到人们——无论是孩子、同事还是朋友——分享使用体验时那种着迷的火花，真的很有趣。

I think it's really interesting to see, that sort of spark of fascination from people, whether it's kids or, or, you know, people we work with or friends as they sort of share their experiences with this thing.

我妻子在亲友测试阶段第一次试用Atlas时特别兴奋，她可以边探索研究任务边向侧边栏聊天提问，玩得不亦乐乎。

I don't know, I just love to see how people, my wife was so giddy when she first got to try Atlas when we did the friends and family testing and just to be able to go and explore researching some task and asking the side chat about what she was looking at and just she had so much fun with it.

我妻子超爱它。

My wife loves it.

这不是谎言，也不是夸张。

This is not a lie, an exaggeration.

发布那晚，我们坐在床上，我正读着书，转头问你：感觉如何？

The night that it came out, we're sitting in bed, I'm reading and I look over, how are doing?

她说，我向你发誓，我发誓满脑子都是Chattypedia Atlas。

She says, I swear to you, I swear to can't stop thinking about Chattypedia Atlas.

因为对她而言，这是首次使用这类代理系统，能实现这些功能简直是重大突破。

Because for her, was her first use of an agentic system like this and to be able to go do these things, it was a huge unlock.

她最爱的工具JGPT现在已接入浏览器。

Was her favorite tools, JGPT, now connected to the browser.

没错，正是如此。

Yep, exactly.

因为它消除了繁琐——当你在浏览网页或做研究时，能直接询问之前讨论的内容，并以之为上下文继续探索，无论什么主题，有AI模型相伴都会轻松许多。

Because just the tediousness that it takes away when you're, I'm looking at this website or I'm doing some research and I can just ask it now about the thing I was talking about it to it before and now we can take this as context and we can kind of keep going and research and whatever the topic is it just becomes a lot easier when the AI, when the model is right there with you.

我认为很多人常纠结于某些网站上看似复杂的操作。

I think a lot of folks like struggle with how to do, know, sometimes like what seem like very complex tasks on certain websites.

比如，假设我在用网页版的电子表格程序（任选你最喜欢的那个）。

You know, one of those websites I think is, you know, if I'm on a spreadsheet, on a web based, pick your favorite web based spreadsheet program.

如何用特定方式可视化这些数据？

How do I visualize this data in a certain way?

如果有个工具能随时响应，以统一的方式提供帮助——

If you just have a tool there that you can ask, you know, drop in and help in a very consistent way.

我觉得这确实非常非常有意思。

I think that's really, really interesting.

是的，我认为另一个有趣的点是，与你妻子的反应相关的是，这对世界上很多人来说都是全新的能力。

Yeah, the other piece that I think is interesting, you know, related to your wife's reaction is this is a lot of net new capability I think for a lot of folks in the world.

我对这个工具真正感到兴奋的是，我们的模型能力在不断进化。

What I'm really excited about with this tool is that our model capabilities are always evolving.

所以在任何特定时间点，它都不是最终状态。

So at any given point in time it's not like the ultimate state of it.

但我们某种程度上可以向人们展示这些东西是如何运作的。

But we kind of get to show people how this stuff works.

我认为通过这种方式，可以建立更多理解，更多关于这项技术如何为你工作的信任。

And I think with that, build some more understanding, some more trust about how this technology is working on your behalf.

我想即使我们明天就开发出世界上最好的模型，能完美解决所有问题，完全按照你个人希望的方式解决，你可能仍然希望参与其中并理解它是如何实现的。

And I think it's, you know, even if we came up with the world's best model tomorrow that solved every problem perfectly in the way that you personally would have wanted that problem solved, you probably would still want to be able to come along for the ride and understand how that was actually happening.

你知道，就是为了你自己的学习。

Just you know, for your own education.

我认为随着时间的推移，当你的信任度建立起来后，最终你会放心地将非常复杂的任务完全委托给这项技术，但我们还没到那个阶段。

I think over time, think when as your trust level builds, eventually you'll be you'll feel comfortable fully delegating very complex tasks to this technology, but we're not at that stage yet.

所以我真正感到高兴和兴奋的是，人们能够来观察这项技术的下一步发展，看着它，看看它的表现，告诉我们，当它不工作时对我们大喊大叫，诸如此类的事情。

And so I think one of the things I'm really happy and excited about is that people are able to come and observe the sort of the next step of this technology and you know watch it, see how it does, know tell us, you know yell at us when it doesn't work, know that kind of thing.

但我想你可以大致了解它是如何工作的，结果就是，你会知道它能做什么，你会知道控制点在哪里，比如你想让它停止做某事或以不同方式做某事，你可以直接告诉它等等。

But I think you can kind of get a feel for how it works and as a result, like you will know like what it's going to be capable of and you'll kind of know what the controls are like where you want it to stop doing something or you want to do something differently, you can just tell it and so on.

我认为你可以调整在这个产品中使用模型的频率和使用方式，但它就在那里。

I think you can kind of dial up and down how much you use the model and the ways you use it in this product, but it's kind of like right there.

很容易再试一次。

It's easy to try again.

我觉得有时ChatGPT的神奇之处在于，当它运行得如此顺畅时，我会想‘哦，我要继续用下去’

And I think sometimes the magic I've felt with ChatGPT is when it really works ever so well that I'm like, Oh, I'm going to go back for

对吧？

Right?

那些神奇时刻会让你惊呼‘天哪，我要因为这个改变我的习惯’

You those magic moments where it's like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna change my habits because of how this works.

对吧？

Right?

我认为在这种情况下，人们很容易沿用熟悉的模式

And I think in this case, it's like easy for people to use familiar patterns.

对吧？

Right?

我打开新标签页进行搜索，结果页面既包含可点击的链接，也有模型生成的回答

I opened the new tab page, I do a search, it lands me into an experience that includes some links I can click on but there's also the model response.

于是你开始意识到，也许不用去找那个能解答问题的网站，答案就在眼前

And so you start to learn that like, maybe instead of that website I was looking for that was gonna answer my question, It's just right there.

我可以继续探索，还能追问其他问题

And I can go and explore that and I can ask it another question.

仅仅通过以熟悉常规的方式使用产品，你就能逐渐体会到这个模型的强大

You start to learn the power of this model just by virtue of using the product in a familiar normal way.

所以对我来说，最激动的是看到人们可能由此开始真正认识到这个模型的能力

And so for me that's kind of exciting to see how people, it might open the door to people starting to realize just what the capabilities of this model are.

展望未来，我们先从短期目标说起

Looking to the future first let's start short term.

我能理解你们希望Windows版本能基本保持与Mac版本现有功能一致的想法。

I can understand how Windows version you're going to pretty much want parity of what you have right now on the Mac version.

但谈到移动端时，情况就不同了——在桌面端有充足空间时我可以放个侧边栏容纳聊天功能，但在移动浏览环境下，正如你们所知，将搜索标签从顶部移到底部这类改动都显得极具颠覆性。

But when you talk about mobile, and it's one thing when I have a lot of desktop space and I can put a sidebar and have the chat thing there, but when you're talking on mobile browsing, as you guys know, especially is a very tricky thing and moving a search tab from the top to the bottom or whatever seems like a revolutionary change.

你们对移动端体验的规划是怎样的？

How are you thinking about that, the mobile experience?

另外，我们是否会以更智能化的方式思考这些功能的应用场景？

And also, is it going to maybe, or are we gonna be thinking more agentically in how we use these?

说个有趣的背景，我们最初的一些探索其实是从移动端开始的。

So maybe fun fact, some of our initial explorations were actually on mobile.

我们的部分思考方向是：将模型引入网页究竟意味着什么？

And part of the way we were thinking about it was really what does it mean to bring the model to the web, right?

这种结合可以呈现多种不同形态。

And that can take many different forms.

当然ChatGPT本身就有手机应用版本。

And of course ChatGPT exists as an app on your phones.

你可以想象通过Atlas生成的记忆内容分享到应用中的各种场景。

You can imagine ways in which you might share to that the kinds of memories that have been generated by using Atlas, right?

因此移动端可能呈现的形态和表现形式非常多样。

So there's a lot of different flavors and forms in which mobile could come or how this can manifest on mobile.

但最根本的问题是：我们要研究如何将网页与模型结合，并思考移动端最适合的呈现方式是什么？

But at the basic level it's like what are some interesting, we're gonna be looking at like how can we bring the web to the model and what does that make what makes sense on mobile?

用户界面可能会有些许不同。

The UX you know may look a little bit different.

正如你指出的，显然那里存在一种不同的形态因素。

Obviously as you point out there's a sort of a different form factor there.

我们拥有非常优秀的设计师，我相信他们能想出好办法来解决部分这类问题。

We've got very talented designers though I'm sure that they'll come up with a good way to solve some of this stuff.

我确实认为在移动端——至少从我自身使用中注意到——我的使用场景更多是信息检索。

Definitely I think on mobile, or at least I noticed through my own use, like my use case is far more information retrieval.

比如我有个问题，实际上我经常使用ChatGPT应用。

Like I have a question, you know, actually I use the ChatGPT app a lot.

如果我对周围事物有疑问，就会用摄像头对准它问：这是什么？

If I have a question about something I'm around or I point the camera at the thing and like, what is this?

就是这类场景。

You know, that type of thing.

因此我认为存在大量类似情境，其中网页内容是这个过程中的组成部分。

So I think that there are a whole host of situations like that where there is web content that is part of that journey.

我们要确保用户在Atlas中的操作流程——既能查看网页内容，又能追问问题后再返回查看——能带来流畅体验。

And we want to make sure that that user flow that you have with Atlas where you can view some web content, where you can ask follow-up questions and then go back and look at the content again, that that feels very good.

这正是我们当前在着力解决的问题。

That's something that we're sort of in the midst of figuring out right now.

所以，目前还没有比这更深入的想法。

And so, you know, like not too much more thought on it than that.

除此之外，我们就是要确保这个体验非常流畅自然。

Other than that, it's something that we're gonna wanna make sure it's like very it feels very good.

是的，我们听到用户强调移动端的重要性，因为他们常在笔记本上工作，又希望以某种方式在手机上继续。

Yeah, I think we hear from people that the importance of mobile because they're doing work on their laptop and they wanna continue in some fashion on their phone.

因此你可以开始想象那里存在的各种可能性空间。

And so you can start to imagine the kinds of space of possibilities there.

五年后我们在使用网络和这类工具方面会发展到什么程度？

Where are we gonna be in five years with how we're using the web and how we use tools like this?

所以我希望达到这样一种状态：人们不再过多考虑所用工具的具体细节，而能更专注于向系统表达他们想要什么。

So I would love to be in a place where people think less about the particulars of the tools they're using and are more just expressing what they want to the system.

然后系统足够智能，能够以恰当的方式理解如何回应。

And then the system is smart enough to understand how to respond to that in a good way.

从这个意义上说，作为人类我们可以专注于最高层次——问题的核心部分，也就是对我来说最有意思的事情？

And so in that sense, we can be as humans, we can be focused on the highest, the question is the highest order piece, is like, is the most interesting for me to do?

模型或许能接管代理程序，处理工作中不那么吸引人的部分——我常用'苦差事'这个词来形容从各种来源提取信息这类繁琐工作。

The model maybe can take over an agent, can drive maybe the less appetising part of the work the more I use the word toil to describe some of that sort of grunt work of pulling information from a bunch of different sources.

也许它能完成许多对你来说很困难的事情，因为你从未做过，而它某种程度上知道如何完成。

Maybe it can do a bunch of things that just seem very difficult to you because you've not done them before, it sort of knows how to do those things.

这样你就能专注于自己想做的事情。

Then And you can be focused on the things that you want to do.

所以我设想未来可能会出现大量由智能代理产生的网络流量，甚至可能成为互联网流量的主体。

So I imagine a world where actually there may be a lot of internet traffic in the future that is agentic, that may even be most of the internet traffic.

我认为人类仍会产生大量流量。

I still see people as generating a bunch of traffic as well.

但这应该是高效的。

But that should be efficient.

人们应该专注于做自己想做的事，而将更多这类苦差事委托给能够承担大量其他工作的智能代理。

People should be focused on doing the things that they want to do and delegating more of this work to more of this toil really to agents that can take on a lot of that other stuff.

打个比方，如果你需要为一个项目做决策，可能你的代理会回来给你几个选项。

And then like if you have to make a decision on a project, maybe your agent comes back to you and gives you some choices.

比如，如果你打算去度假，你想住这家酒店还是那家酒店？

Know, if you're you're going to take a vacation, do you want to stay at this hotel or that hotel?

你可以在它们之间选择，由你来决定。

You can pick between them, you get to make a choice.

但所有这些繁琐的点击操作和在网上搜寻的过程

But all of the sort of grungy clicking around and scouring the internet

这些事情，可能它已经完成了初步筛选并给你提供了一些选择。

for these things, maybe it took the first pass and presented you some choices.

我们已经讨论过作为这个工具的用户和开发者，你们如何看待它。

We've talked a bit about how as users and developers of this tool, you look at it.

假设我是一个电商网站的运营者，我正在考虑要在网上发布信息，我知道之前就有过讨论——当大语言模型开始搜索网络时会发生什么，现在我们进入了代理时代，当代理使用这些技术，再加上大语言模型驱动的浏览器。

If I was somebody who had an e commerce site and if I was looking at, I'm going to be putting information on the web and I know that one, there'd been conversations for a while like what happens when LLMs go search the web and now we get into the world of agents when agents are using this and plus LLM powered browsers.

你会建议人们朝什么方向思考？

What advice, what direction would you be telling people to think?

你是指内容发布者吗？

You mean the publishers?

对。

Yeah.

是的，我觉得这很有意思，某种程度上这和本刚才谈到的可能有点关联。

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's really interesting like in some ways I think about the maybe a little bit related to what Ben was talking about.

你看最新的模型已经学会根据查询决定：'嘿，我该去网上查找答案来回答你的问题'，对吧？

Like, you see the more recent models they've learned how to based on the query decide, hey, I should actually look at the internet to answer your question, right?

因此我认为这些模型能帮助你连接出版商、网络应用和各种内容非常有趣，无论是提供片段引用让你深入了解，还是直接为你建立连接——毕竟如果你的意图就是访问某个网站，它能帮你直达目标。

And so I think it's really interesting how these models can, help you connect to publishers and web apps and whatever content that's out there, either giving you a snippet and like a citation to it so you can go deeper or even just connecting you to it because that's actually what you, if your intent was to navigate to a site then it can help you get there.

我认为我们通过Atlas探索的一个方向就是如何更好地处理导航意图。

I think one of the things we've been exploring with Atlas is how to, for example, handle and better serve navigational intents.

有时用户打开浏览器时就明确想访问特定网站购买商品，我们的职责就是尽可能快速地帮他们到达目的地。

Sometimes people come to their browser with absolutely the intent of, I want to buy this product on this site, you know, and that's our job just to get you there as fast as possible.

所以在构建Atlas时，确保这类查询得到良好服务实际上是个重要组成部分。

And so it's been actually an element of building Atlas was making sure we're serving those kinds of queries well.

而有时你只是想探究模型的知识库，让它为你调研某些信息。

Other times you just want to probe the knowledge of the model and have it go and research something for you.

这有时需要模型调用工具来代你完成。

And sometimes that involves it needing to invoke tools to do that on your behalf.

就像Ben提到的，我设想未来世界不再需要人工指定模型使用什么工具，而是它能自主调用丰富的工具库。

And so again, to Ben's, what Ben was talking about, it's I imagine a world in the future when you don't have to be so prescriptive about what tool you want the model to use but rather it has this incredible palette of tools that it could draw upon.

其中有些工具可能是操控你的浏览器这类功能。

And some of them could be actuating your browser, things like this.

十年后我们还会继续使用网页吗？

We're gonna be using web pages in ten years?

我想会的。

I think so.

这就像构成世界的某种基础架构——人们通过它发布内容，这是内容传播的核心原始方式。

It's kind of this fabric of like of this world where people are publishing through this, it's the core primitive how people are putting content out there.

就像互联网高速公路那些比喻，它是个开放的发布平台，我看不出这种模式会改变。

So it's kind of the, you know, the internet super highway, all that kind of those analogies, but it is like this open fabric for which people can publish and I don't see that changing.

全球最大的，正如你之前提到的，最开放的平台。

The world's largest, you know, as you mentioned before, most open platform.

我认为开放性的这种力量总会吸引人们来发布内容。

And I think some of that power of openness is always gonna make it attractive for people to put content on.

在我看来，这些工具不仅能理解那种结构、理解互联网、理解现有的内容，还能将内容带给人们，并连接人们与内容。

The way I look at it is these tools, yes, they are able to understand that fabric, understand that internet, understand the content that's out there, but they're also able to bring that content to people and connect people to that content.

它可以非常强大，而且这一切都是为了服务于用户的意图。

And it can be very powerful and again it's all in service of what is that user's intent.

思考如何在这方面做得越来越好，我觉得相当有趣。

I think it's fairly interesting to think about how we can do a better and better job of that.

真正满足那些用户的需求。

It really serving the needs of those users.

最终，当人们发布那些面向大众的内容时。

Ultimately And as people are putting content out there that's intended for people.

如果你发布的内容是，比如一个供人购物的画廊之类的。

If you're putting out content that you're you know, it's a gallery for somebody to go shopping or something like this.

我们希望帮助人们找到它，帮助人们与之建立联系，帮助人们完成他们的旅程，无论那是什么。

We want to help people find that, help people get connected to that, help people with the journey that they're on and whatever that may be.

这很令人兴奋。

This is exciting.

感谢分享这些。

Thank you for sharing this.

还有什么最后的建议或高级用户技巧吗？

Any last suggestions, any power user tips?

没错，滚动标签功能绝对是我们俩的最爱。

Yeah, definitely the scrolling tabs feature is like a favorite for both of us.

对，我想说的就是，要勇于挑战自我。

Yeah, I would just say like, challenge yourself.

就像我刚才说的，虽然现在还在早期阶段，但要在浏览每个页面时保持好奇心，多提出问题，你可能会对自己的发现感到惊喜。

Like I said at this point, very early stage but challenge yourself with your curiosity on any given page, ask a question on more pages that you visit and you might be surprised with what you come up with.

太棒了。

Awesome.

我们很期待听到大家使用产品的体验反馈。

And we'd love to hear from everybody about how they're experiencing the product.

请继续提供反馈意见。

Please keep the feedback coming.

一定会的。

Definitely.

本、达伦，非常感谢你们。

Ben, Darren, thank you very much.

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Thank you.