The Microplastics Cleanse

嘿，欢迎收听《OutsideIn》，一档探索好奇心与自然世界交汇的节目。

Hey, this is outsidein, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide.

我是内特·黑吉，今天和哈莉玛·沙赫一起主持。

I'm Nate Hedgeye here with Haleema Shah.

嗨，内特。

Hi Nate.

我想先问个问题。

I wanna start with a question.

你和塑料的关系是怎样的？

What is your relationship with plastic like?

嗯，塑料已经是我日常生活中的一部分了。

Well, it is a part of my everyday life.

我买蔬果，八成是用那种小塑料盒装的。

I get my produce probably in one of those little plastic containers.

我

I

我从亚马逊买的东西，每一样都裹得全是塑料。

feel like everything I get off Amazon is wrapped in plastic.

是啊。

Yeah.

到处都是。

Ubiquitous.

对吧。

Right.

我算是个不太情愿的塑料环保人士。

I am a reluctantly plastic conscious person.

意思是，我老公老盯着我，不让我把热饭剩菜留在塑料外卖盒里，也不让扔掉塑料菜板。

And what I mean by that is that my husband is always on my case about not leaving hot food in plastic takeout boxes or, you know, throwing out plastic cutting boards.

我只能说，我老婆也差不多。

I will just say, my wife, very similar.

我们家那些塑料菜板，现在都尽量少用了。

Like, we've got plastic cutting boards that we're, like, trying to not use as much.

Teflon也是，我们也在尽量少用。

And same with Teflon, we're trying to stay away from that.

对。

Yeah.

这确实是个大问题。

That's a big one.

你老婆和我老公这么在意是有道理的，因为研究已经表明，我们日常用的这些塑料会分解成微小颗粒，悄悄进入人体。

And your wife and my husband are reasonable people for being concerned about this because studies do show that tiny pieces of these plastics that we use all the time are getting inside our bodies.

没错。

Right.

虽然看不见，但基本可以肯定它们就在我们体内。

And we can't see them, but you can kind of assume that they're there.

是的，完全同意。

Yeah, absolutely.

说真的，这事儿我真该多上点心。

Like, it's something that, like, I should probably be thinking about more.

如果你想再焦虑一点，可以买个家用检测套件，直接测测你血液里到底有多少塑料微粒。

Well, if you wanna raise your anxiety more, you can get a home testing kit to literally test how much plastic is in your blood.

天哪。

Oh, man.

我不确定我敢做这个。

I don't know if I wanna do that.

我做过。

Well, I did.

你真做了？

Did you really?

我做了。

I did.

我确实做了。

I did.

我从一家叫Blueprint的公司买了个360美元的血液检测套件，这家公司是由硅谷自封的长寿达人布莱恩·约翰逊创办的。

I got a $360 mail in blood testing kit from Blueprint, which is a company that's founded by Silicon Valley's own self proclaimed longevity athlete, Brian Johnson.

你知道我说的是谁吗？

Do you know who I'm talking about?

我知道Brian Johnson。

I do know Brian Johnson.

我每次刷Instagram或者YouTube，他那张亮得反光的脸就冒出来。

Every time I'm scrolling through Instagram or YouTube, his very shiny face pops up.

他确实脸挺亮的。

He does have a really shiny face.

看着就像蜡像做的。

Definitely looks like he's made of wax.

没错。

He does.

因为他睡觉的时候开着激光灯。

It's because he sleeps under laser lights.

他这么干，就是为了能不死。

And he does that because his goal in life is literally to not die.

我每天都会测体温。

I measure my temperature every single day.

我会锻炼一小时。

I'll work out for an hour.

先做红光疗法，接着做高压氧治疗，然后泡个桑拿，洗个澡，这才算准备好开工。

I'll do red light therapy, then do hyperbaric oxygen therapy, then some sauna, then I'll rinse off, and then I'm ready for work.

他看起来一点都不像在享受生活。

He never seems like he's having very much fun.

一切都安排得死板得要命。

Like, everything is so regimented.

是啊。

Oh, yeah.

可没人说长生不老是件好玩的事儿。

No one said living forever is going to be fun.

但他这个检测要求你扎手指，把血滴在卡片上。

But what his test requires is that you prick your finger and drop your blood onto a card.

好的。

Okay.

得用力按下去。

Pressing down firmly.

没刺进去。

It's not puncturing.

根本没扎破皮肤。

It's not piercing my skin.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这事儿特别难搞。

I I found this very difficult.

是啊。

Yeah.

我也会觉得难。

I would too.

我也不会用力按。

I wouldn't push very hard either.

不想把自己戳着了。

Don't wanna poke myself.

我知道。

I know.

没错。

Exactly.

好嘞。

K.

现在上面说要按摩，促进血液循环。

And now it says to massage to encourage blood flow.

哎呀，血滴到我桌子上了，但没滴到我的检测样本上。

Oh, The blood fell on my desk, but not my not my test.

那滴血简直完美。

That was like a perfect drop of blood too.

天哪。

Oh, no.

你又得来一遍？

Did you have to do it again?

是啊。

I did.

真的又来了一遍。

I did.

我得扎一下

I had to prick a

第二个手指头，这次总算成功了。

second finger, then I got it right.

然后我把这张沾了血的卡片装进信封，扔进了邮筒。

And then I put this bloodied card in an envelope and dropped it in the USPS Dropbox.

哇哦。

Wow.

结果本来预计要四到六周才出来。

The results were going to arrive in four to six weeks.

但在拿到结果之前，我一直在想一个问题：如果真发现体内有大量微塑料，我到底能做点啥？

But before I got them, I had this big question, which is, if I find out that I do have a lot of microplastics in my body, what can I actually do about it?

比如，能把它排出去吗？

Like, can I get it out?

对啊。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

你到底怎么才能把体内的微塑料清干净？

Like, how do you, like, cleanse yourself of microplastics?

这是《Outside In》，今天制片人哈莉玛·沙赫深入探究一种新潮流——微塑料排毒。

This is outsidein, and today, producer Haleema Shah is digging into a new trend, the microplastics cleanse.

这会是塑料充斥的世界里，医疗的未来吗？

Is this the future of healthcare in a plasticized world?

还是说，这根本就是一种贵得离谱的自我安慰？

Or is it just a very expensive form of wishful thinking?

当那个柔软的软管插进去的时候，你根本感觉不到。

When the soft flexible tube is being inserted, you don't feel it.

别走开。

Stick around.

这是《OutsideIn》。

This is outsidein.

我是哈莉玛·沙。

I'm Haleema Shah.

我现在在马里兰州巴尔的摩的国家水族馆。

I'm at the National Aquarium in Baltimore, Maryland.

早上九点，这儿除了城市垃圾清运车和水族馆工作人员，一个人都没有。

It's 9AM, which means absolutely no one, but the city's trash pickup and aquarium staff is here.

工作人员还让我跟他们一起走进这片城市湿地。

And the staff is letting me wade through in urban marshland with them.

水最深也就到膝盖，但我穿着救生衣和及大腿的橡胶靴。

The water is knee deep at most, but I'm wearing a life jacket and thigh high rubber boots.

虽然不怎么好看，但我还是忍不住想说。

They're not sexy, but I can't help saying it anyway.

我感觉自己像珍妮特·杰克逊。

I feel like Janet Jackson.

这里的沼泽地经常拦住潮水冲进来的塑料垃圾，比如雪茄和零食的包装，还有装着纸条的塑料瓶。

The marshland here often catches plastics that the tide brings in, like wrappers from cigars and snacks or messages in plastic bottles.

那儿就有一个塑料瓶。

Plastic bottle right there.

对。

Yep.

但它也会困住微塑料。

But it also traps microplastics.

这些碎片大约五毫米大，跟一粒米差不多，甚至更小。

These are bits of debris about five millimeters, the size of a grain of rice or smaller.

这里的小塑料片就像彩纸屑一样，贴在沼泽草边。

And here, the microplastics look like confetti lining the edge of the marsh's grasses.

颜色可真鲜艳。

They're colorful.

它们还会漂着走。

They float.

就是一些积水的地方，塑料渣都聚成一堆。

It's just a mass that collects in certain areas where the water is stagnant.

这位是夏曼·达伦堡。

This is Charmaine Dahlenburg.

她是水族馆野外保护项目的负责人。

She's the director of field conservation at the aquarium.

每天早上，她和团队都会拿着渔网——不是那种捕鱼的网——来清理大小塑料垃圾。

And every morning, she and her team grab their fishnets, not that kind, and clean up plastics, big and small.

我之前从一艘船上捡到一块挺不错的砧板，就留着了。

I found a really nice cutting board from a boat that I kept.

我们捡到过一些被冲上岸的保温箱，清理干净后就再利用。

We've had coolers wash up that we kind of clean out and reuse.

我的意思是，啥稀奇古怪的东西都有。

I mean, just, weird things.

这都是因为那些游艇

It's, like, because of all the yachts

还有船员

and crew

从这儿经过时带过来的。

that pass by.

比如坐垫，可能被风吹掉到水里。

Cushions that maybe blow off.

我不是来责怪谁乱扔垃圾的。

I'm not here to shame people for littering.

我只是想看看这些微塑料到底在野外是什么样子。

I just want to see the microplastics out in the wild.

我还想知道，Charmaine 怎么能坚持做这么重复的事。

And I also want to know how Charmaine manages to do something so redundant.

她早上刚清理完塑料垃圾，第二天又是一堆。

She cleans up plastic one morning, and the next, there's more.

确实挺重复的。

It is repetitive.

天天干同样的活儿，时间久了真容易让人崩溃。

We do the same thing every day, and it can start to wear down on you.

其实有几项研究指出，要是人们看到地上有垃圾，就更可能再扔点上去。

There are a few studies out there, first of all, that if people see trash on the ground, they're likely to add to it.

这真的严重影响了我们的社区。

And that really impacts our communities.

集体行动来对抗塑料污染。

Collective action against plastic pollution.

这个我懂。

I get that.

环境和美观方面的理由一看就明白。

The environmental and aesthetic case seem obvious.

但现在还有一件事值得考虑。

But now there's something else to consider.

人的健康。

Human health.

过去一年里，关于微塑料及其更小的亲戚——纳米塑料的研究突然爆发了，纳米塑料的尺寸在1到1000纳米之间。

In the past year, there's been an explosion of studies on microplastics and their miniscule cousins, nanoplastics, which are between one and one thousand nanometers in size.

这些塑料颗粒对人体的影响还是个新兴研究领域，但初步结果已经让人很担忧。

And the impact of these plastic particles on our bodies is a budding area of research, but the early results are alarming.

这其实是最早证明微塑料会在人脑中积累的研究之一。

This was actually one of the first studies to show that there was an accumulation of these microplastics in the human brain.

这位是马库斯·加西亚博士。

This is Doctor.

马库斯·加西亚。

Marcus Garcia.

他是新墨西哥大学药学院的助理教授，还共同参与了一项关于微塑料和纳米塑料（MNPs）的重磅研究。

He's an assistant professor at the University of New Mexico's College of Pharmacy, And he also coauthored a blockbuster study on micro and nanoplastics or MNPs.

一项新研究引发关注，研究人员在人类脑组织样本中发现了一整勺的微塑料。

A new study is raising concern about microplastics after researchers found an entire spoon's worth inside samples taken from human brains.

这项研究分析了50多具遗体的大脑、肾脏和肝脏组织，发现大脑中的微塑料浓度最高。

The study looked at brain, kidney, and liver tissue from over 50 cadavers, and it found that brain tissue had the highest concentration of MNPs.

还有一个令人担忧的发现。

And there was another concerning finding too.

在这项研究中，患有痴呆症的病例体内的塑料累积量，是我们所对比的正常组织样本的十倍。

Within this study, dementia cases actually had 10 times the amount of plastic accumulation as compared to, the remaining, normal tissue cohort that we we looked at.

换句话说，痴呆患者组织中的塑料含量是正常人的十倍。

In other words, plastic accumulation was 10 times higher in tissue from people who had dementia.

但我要说清楚一点。

Now, I want to be clear here.

目前科学证据还不足以断定塑料会导致痴呆。

The science is not strong enough to say that plastics will give you dementia.

但研究作者们是这样说的。

But this is what the study authors are saying.

我们的意思是，目前来看相关性更强，但还不能确定因果关系。

We're saying that there's more of a correlation at this point, not a causation.

即使有这个前提，这项研究还是很有争议的。

Even with that caveat, the study is controversial.

几个月后，这位博士。

A few months after Doctor.

加西亚的研究发表在《自然·医学》期刊上，同时还有另外九名科学家在同一本期刊上发表了他们的质疑意见。

Garcia's study was published in Nature Medicine, nine other scientists published their doubts in the same journal.

先把话说清楚，这些科学家都承认微塑料确实会进入人体内部。

To be clear, the scientists agree that microplastics can get inside of us.

微纳米塑料（MNP）能通过饮用水、海鲜进入我们的身体，也能通过生鲜的包装、特氟龙涂层的锅，还有外卖餐盒进入人体。

MNPs can enter our bodies through drinking water and seafood, through the wrapping our produce comes in, or Teflon coated pans, or the boxes we get our takeout in.

但这些塑料最终会在我们的器官里堆积多少呢？

But how much of that plastic is piling up inside our organs?

这正是争议所在。

That's what's up for debate.

其中一位在《自然医学》上发表质疑的科学家，来自德国顶尖的环境研究机构。

One of the scientists who published their doubts in Nature Medicine worked at one of Germany's top environmental research institutions.

他告诉《卫报》，大脑大约60%是脂肪，而脂肪常常会让人误以为是聚乙烯——最常见的人造塑料。

He told The Guardian that the brain is about 60% fat, and fat can often trigger false positives for polyethylene, the most common synthetic plastic.

他还进一步指出。

He also went further.

有一位生物分析学家用词相当尖锐，直接说这项研究是个笑话。

One bioanalytical scientist used some pretty scathing language, calling the study a joke.

你怎么回应这些批评？

What do you say to those criticisms?

我的意思是，每个人对这项研究都会有自己的看法。

I mean, everybody's gonna have their own opinion of the research.

我们明白，确实可能存在干扰，尤其是聚乙烯这块。

Like, we understood that there is potential interference, especially with with polyethylene.

这一点我们在论文里写得非常详细。

We wrote that extensively.

这些注意事项全都清清楚楚列在研究总结里了。

I mean, in the summary statement, we have all of these things listed.

不过话说回来，把微纳米塑料和人体健康挂钩的研究可不只有这篇大脑研究。

That being said, the brain study isn't alone in tying micro and nanoplastics to human health.

意大利有一项研究就发现，如果有人的主动脉里存在斑块和微塑料，那他们中风或心梗的概率会高得多。

A study from Italy suggested that people who had plaque and microplastics in a key artery were more likely to suffer from a stroke or heart attack.

不过那项研究的研究方法也遭到了质疑。

That study was also challenged for its methodology, though.

还有另一项研究以天生易患阿尔茨海默病的小鼠为实验对象。

Another looked at mice that were genetically predisposed to Alzheimer's.

研究人员让其中一组小鼠接触了制作泡沫塑料常用的那种塑料。

One group of mice was exposed to the same type of plastic used in Styrofoam.

这组小鼠很早就出现了记忆障碍的症状。

Those ones showed early signs of memory problems.

但这个问题在于，那个研究是用小鼠做的，不是人。

But the problem with that study was that it was on mice, not humans.

你在赶着发论文的时候，会不会担心把问题说得太严重了？

Do you have any concern about raising the alarm too much in the race to publish results?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

当然了。

Absolutely.

所以很多时候，不管我们做啥，就连我们自己发表的那篇论文，也花了整整两年，反复检查、不断重做，把所有数据都核对了好几遍。

And that's why a lot of times, like, with anything that we do, even the the study that we published, I mean, that was two years worth of work, and it was a lot of, like, looking, trying again, double checking all of our all of our data.

但现在还只是初期阶段，有些关联性，但还没找到确切的机制，没法说‘百分百确定’这些微塑料就是导致某种疾病的元凶。

But it's still in the early stages where there there's some correlations, but we haven't gotten down to definitive mechanisms or giving, like, the 100, like, yes, these microplastics are causing x and x disease.

我觉得只要科学信息能传出去，而且是最扎实的科学，那这些数据对整个社会都有帮助。

And I think that as long as the science is getting out there and it's the best science possible, That data is only helping the community.

但不仅仅是科学界注意到了这些研究。

But it's not just the scientific community catching wind of these studies.

普通老百姓也都在听说这些事。

Everyday people are hearing about them too.

比如那些正为不明原因的不孕问题找答案的人，或者对亲人确诊癌症感到困惑的人。

People who might be looking for an explanation for mysterious fertility issues or wondering about a loved one's cancer diagnosis.

就算目前还没确凿证据证明微塑料和这些健康问题有关，人们照样会担心。

Even if there's no scientific smoking gun linking microplastics to these health problems, that doesn't mean people aren't worried.

在我们还没完全搞清威胁有多大，但警报已经拉响的这个空档期，各种没凭没据的疗法就开始冒头了。

And it's into this research gap before we fully understand the threat, but after the alarm bells have been raised that unproven treatments can bubble up.

这就引出了排毒界的一个新潮流：微塑料排毒法。

Which brings us to a new trend in the world of detox: the microplastics cleanse.

广告后继续。

That's after the break.

我是哈莉玛·沙，欢迎收听《外在世界》，一档探索好奇心与自然世界交汇的节目。

I'm Haleema Shah, and you're listening to Outside In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide.

你在TikTok上搜索微塑料，就能刷到一大堆帮你把体内微塑料排出去的健康养生建议。

Search microplastics on TikTok, and you'll get a barrage of wellness advice on detoxing them from your body.

这些建议里提到的成分，其实很多日常食物里都有，比如酸奶、苹果里就有。

We're talking about ingredients in things like yogurt or apples.

苹果果胶。

Apple pectin.

植物乳杆菌。

Lactobacillus plantarum.

据说这个能帮身体排出微塑料，还有实际依据的那种。

That has been proven to detox microplastics.

我们说的就是那些养生食品、补剂之类的。

We're talking about health foods, supplements.

比如萝卜硫素，西蓝花里就有这种成分。

Sulphurophane, which comes from broccoli.

它能很好地捕捉并结合微塑料，这样就能跟着身体代谢排出去了。

It's great for removing and binding to microplastics so you can move them out when you go to the bathroom.

还有一种叫洋车前子壳纤维的东西。

Something called psyllium husk fiber.

说白了就是美达施那款膳食纤维粉嘛

This is basically Metamucil

在健康养生圈可是老牌热门好物。

and a classic wellness favorite.

一定要保证每周去三到四次桑拿，每次蒸二十分钟。

Make sure you go to your sauna three to four times a week, twenty minutes.

靠排汗把它们都排出去。

Sweat it all out.

我把这些想法都拿去跟马库斯·加西亚聊过，他是那篇研究人脑内微塑料与纳米塑料（也就是MNPs）的论文的合著者。

I ran these ideas by Marcus Garcia, who co authored the study on micro and nanoplastics, or MNPs, in the human brain.

那你觉得靠排便或者排汗把这些东西排出去的说法靠谱吗？

What do you make of that idea that you can poop or sweat this stuff out?

至于蒸桑拿排微塑料这回事，我还没看到多少相关的研究数据。

In terms of the saunas, I haven't seen too much data on that.

这方面的数据其实多得多。

There's a lot more data.

他跟我说，泡桑拿出汗对心血管确实好，但大概没法帮你排出微塑料。

Sweating in a sauna is great for cardiovascular health, he told me, but probably not for ridding yourself of microplastics.

那通过上厕所排出去呢？

But getting rid of them via the bathroom?

这个说法倒是有一定道理。

There might be something to that.

那些比较大一点的、我们称之为微塑料的东西，可能确实会随着粪便一起被排出来。

Some of these bigger or what we would consider microplastics might actually be just, being excreted through the body and through, through fecal matter as well.

我的意思是，我见过一些数据，显示多吃纤维确实能帮人更频繁地排便。

I mean, I've seen data around, like, of course, increasing fiber in your diet may help just because it's allowing you to pass things more frequently.

但这些纤维到底能捕获多少纳米级的物质呢？

Now how much of the nanomaterial it's capturing?

这个嘛，目前还说不准。

I think that that is still to be determined.

所以，可能是微塑料。

So microplastics, maybe.

纳米塑料太小了，身体可能会吸收，而不仅仅是排出去。

Nanoplastics, they could be so small they're getting absorbed by the body rather than just passing through.

医生。

Doctor.

关于这个话题，我可不止问了加西亚一个人。

Garcia isn't the only person I spoke to about this.

我还问过一位研究塑料与人体健康的斯坦福科学家，关于桑拿和补充剂，她持怀疑态度。

I asked a Stanford scientist who studies plastics and human health about the saunas and supplements too, And she was skeptical.

她说，当研究还没到位时，养生方案就成了人们利用我们恐惧心理赚钱的手段。

She said that when the research isn't quite there, wellness solutions are a way for people to make money off of our fears.

关键是，这些补充剂根本不受FDA监管。

Because here's the thing with the supplements: they're not FDA regulated.

这些公司不用证明产品有效，甚至不用证明它们是安全的。

These companies don't have to prove that their products work, and they don't even have to prove that they're safe.

但它们便宜，至少比那些最火的疗法便宜多了。

But they are cheap, or at least cheaper than the buzziest treatment of them all.

咱们先说说你的全名和你是做什么的吧。

Let's just start with your full name and what you do.

我叫耶尔·科恩，是Clarify Clinics的首席执行官。

My name is Yael Cohen, and I'm the CEO of Clarify Clinics.

你在哪里开展业务？

And where are you based?

我在洛杉矶。

I'm in Los Angeles.

Clarify Clinic最出名的就是某一项治疗。

And Clarify Clinic is well known for one procedure in particular.

你能跟我说说是什么吗？

Can you tell me what that is?

我们只做一件事，就是血浆分离术。

So we do one thing and one thing only, and it is an apheresis procedure.

Apheresis这个词源自希腊语，本意是‘移除’。

Apheresis is a word that comes from Greek, which means to take away.

简单来说这个操作就是：用导管把血液引出来，送入离心机分离成不同成分。

And literally, a procedure that removes your blood through a tube, puts it through a centrifuge, and separates it into different elements.

把有害的那部分滤掉之后，剩下的血细胞、血小板还有血浆就会重新输回体内。

The harmful components are removed, and the remaining blood cells, platelets, and plasma are all pumped back into the body.

而且这个采血分离术并不是什么新技术。

And apheresis isn't anything new.

这种疗法几十年来一直用于治疗血液类癌症。

It's been used as a medical treatment for blood cancer for decades.

但用它来清除体内的微塑料，却是最近才出现的新用法。

But what is new is using it to remove microplastics.

这么做不是为了治疗什么具体症状，而是在微塑料可能引发健康问题之前，就先把它们排出体外。

Not to treat any particular symptoms, but to get these microplastics out before they might cause any.

我当初了解到这个疗法，是看到《The Cut》的一篇报道，报道的封面图就是你，两只手臂都插着采血管，还在笑呢。

You know, when I learned about this procedure, it was through a story in the cut and you are in the cover image smiling with some tubes hooked up to both of your arms.

看起来就像你在抽血，还笑得挺开心。

It kind of looks like you're getting your blood drawn and you're smiling.

这感觉怎么样？

What does this feel like?

说来好笑，你提到这个，其实我们设计病人流程的时候，完全是以我为原型的，因为我特别怕针。

So it's funny that you say that because I am we built our patient protocols around me because I am such a chicken when it comes to needles.

我一看到针就吓坏了。

I'm terrified of them.

我真的特别讨厌针。

I don't like them.

所以我们尽量让整个过程舒服一点。

And so we make it as comfortable as possible.

做这个 procedure 的时候，其实特别放松。

And during the procedure, it's quite relaxing.

有意思的是，很多病人做完都睡着了。

Interestingly, a lot of our patients end up sleeping.

而且这过程要花上四个小时，不疼也正常。

It probably doesn't hurt that the procedure takes up to four hours.

不过，耶尔说，自从用了Clari——就是这个血浆分离疗法——她的睡眠和焦虑都好多了。

Regardless, Yael said her sleep and anxiety has improved thanks to Clari, the name of this particular apheresis procedure.

再加上奥兰多·布鲁姆这么个明星背书，这事儿可没少上新闻。

And it's gotten a lot of press thanks to a celebrity endorsement from Orlando Bloom.

这要么是疯了，要么就是蛮干。

This is either madness or brute.

真有意思，这两种特质居然经常一块儿出现。

It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide.

但问题是，这疗法目前还没任何经过同行评审的研究能证明它真有效。

But what this procedure doesn't have is peer reviewed evidence showing that it works.

有几位研究透析的科学家——那是个挺相似的疗法——就谨慎地指出，血浆分离可能反而会让微塑料进入血液。

A couple of scientists who study dialysis, a very similar procedure, have cautiously written that apheresis could actually introduce microplastics into the blood.

毕竟，回输到你体内的血，可是流过塑料管子的。

After all, the blood that's pumping back into you is moving through plastic tubes.

如果微塑料已经在大脑、肝脏或肾脏这些器官里堆积了，单靠从血液里清除它们，可能效果有限。

And if microplastics are piling up in organs, like the brain, liver, or kidneys, removing them from the blood might not have the highest impact.

不管怎样，耶尔在她老家洛杉矶没法给客户做这个Clari治疗，因为美国还没批准。

Either way, Yale can't offer Clari to her clients in LA, where she's based, because it's not approved in The US.

你们在伦敦、迪拜和约翰内斯堡倒是都有诊所。

You have clinics in London, Dubai, and Johannesburg.

那为什么FDA到现在还没批准这个疗法呢？

So why hasn't this procedure been approved by the FDA yet?

这事儿急不得。

It takes time.

还有美国……

And The U.

……美国市场显然是重点，我们正在努力推进。

S.

我们正在努力推进。

Is obviously a market of interest, and that's something we're currently working on.

不过就算这套疗法真的能进入美国，

But even if this procedure comes to The U.

它也要花差不多13000美元，而且保险完全不报销。

S, it's going to cost about $13,000 and insurance is not going to cover it.

至少现在还不给报。

Not yet, anyway.

对绝大多数人来说，这都不是一笔小钱。

That's a lot of money for a lot of people.

那我就想问了，如果这项技术连受污染影响最严重的群体——通常都是低收入人群——都用不上，那它对解决微塑料问题到底能有多大作用呢？

And I wonder how viable of a solution this can be to our microplastics problem if it's not available to, for example, populations who are the most affected by pollutants, which tend to be low income populations?

你说得完全没错。

So you're entirely correct.

这个价格确实不是普通人能轻易承担的，但它本身是医院级别的医疗操作，需要在有监管的临床环境里，由医生和护士来操作，所以这个定价是匹配它背后的基础设施、技术含量，还有全程医疗监管的成本的。

That is not a highly accessible price, but it's hospital grade medical procedure that's delivered by physicians and nurses in a supervised clinical setting, and so the price is reflecting that infrastructure, the technology, the medical oversight involved.

而且话说回来，这项技术本来就是刚出来的新事物，对吧？

But also, this is new, right?

就像当初手机、电脑或者坐飞机，刚出来的时候都特别贵，我们心里很清楚，一定要把价格降下来，让最需要的人用得起。

And so when we had cell phones or computers or air travel, at first, they were really expensive, and it's absolutely on our radar to bring this price point down to where it's accessible to the people who need it most.

但假设有一天FDA批准了这项治疗，价格也降下来了，

But let's say that one day the FDA does approve this procedure and that the cost does come down.

那这治疗能跟得上我们每天接触的塑料量吗？

Can the treatment keep up with the amount of plastic we interact with on the daily?

在塑料无处不在的世界里，我们还能长期维持这种效果吗？

Is it possible to maintain these results when we're living and moving through a world where plastic is everywhere?

我觉得这事儿我们还得做更多研究。

So I think that's something we need a lot more research on.

在当今这个社会，我们真能完全避开微塑料和永久性化学物的接触吗？

Is it possible to entirely avoid microplastic exposure or forever chemical exposure in our modern world?

不可能。

No.

我们能做的，是尽量减少接触，从力所能及的地方做起，降低体内毒素的累积——这正是Clari正在做的事。

I think what we can do is limit exposure, you know, make meaningful changes in the ways that we can, and then reduce circulating toxic burden, which is what we're doing with Clari.

虽然耶鲁希望Clari有一天能普及，但要让它成为主流疗法，还得做大量工作，尤其是要有扎实的数据支持。

Even though Yale wants Clari to be widely accessible one day, a lot will have to happen before it becomes a go to treatment, namely strong data to back it up.

我们还不清楚微塑料和疾病之间的关系，所以很难说这个疗法到底有多大效果。

We still don't know the relationship between microplastics and disease, so it's hard to say how beneficial this procedure actually is.

更别说，像这样的治疗方式，是针对个人的，可塑料污染却是个群体性问题。

And on top of that, treatments like this are very individualized ways of dealing with a collective problem.

全球每年产生的塑料污染接近六千万吨。

The world produces almost 60,000,000 tons of plastic pollution each year.

这种问题，单靠个人根本没法应对。

That's hardly a problem any one person can face.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这事政府得带头搞才行。

I I mean, this is something that I do think the government should take the lead on.

这是来自维克森林大学的法学教授莎拉·莫拉特，她写过一本叫《我们的塑料问题及解决方案》的书。

This is Sarah Morath, law professor at Wake Forest University and author of a book called Our Plastic Problem and How to Solve It.

这是个全球性问题，可我们的政府却没让避开这些产品变得更容易。

It's a global problem, and our government has not made it any easier to avoid these kinds of products.

企业那边也没怎么努力。

And companies aren't either.

美国也不是没管过那些曾经无处不在的东西。

It's not like The US has never regulated a once ubiquitous substance before.

我在这儿做这个报道的时候，老想起小时候学过的一件事——DDT，那种上世纪六十年代《寂静的春天》里讲的杀虫剂。

As I've been working on this story, I keep thinking about something I learned about in grade school, DDT, the popular insecticide that was the subject of the nineteen sixties book Silent Spring.

DDT害死了鸟类，还跟人类癌症有关，书一出来，没多久就被禁了。

DDT killed birds and it was linked to cancer in humans, and it was effectively banned soon after the book came out.

微塑料会不会也落得同样的下场？

Could the same happen with microplastics?

DDT是一种具体的化学物质，那时候说‘别再用这个了’，容易得多。

DDT is a specific chemical, And I think it was easier to go say we're no longer going to offer this specific chemical.

可塑料种类太多了，想像对付单一化学物那样，一竿子打翻一船人地整治微塑料，根本没那么容易。

Whereas there's so many different kinds of plastics, it's hard to, sort of target microplastics writ large in a way where we could target a specific isolated chemical.

所以塑料不太可能像DDT那样被一举禁止。

So plastics aren't likely to be banned like DDT in one fell swoop.

而且就算想禁，可能也不是什么好事。

And that might not be a good thing anyway.

一次性塑料在医疗领域方便处理生物危害废物。

Single use plastics make it easy to dispose of biohazardous material in the medical sector.

它结实、便宜、轻便，用塑料包装运输，成本和碳足迹都比玻璃低。

And it's sturdy, and it's affordable, and it's light, so shipping things in plastic has a lower cost and carbon footprint than maybe shipping it in glass.

但要在便利和监管之间找到平衡并不容易，尤其是石油行业——也就是塑料的生产者——在国会里势力这么大。

But finding a balance between convenience and regulation isn't easy, especially when the petroleum industry, which produces plastics, has so much power on Capitol Hill.

这就像先有鸡还是先有蛋，立法和司法系统其实是相互推动、一起往前走的。

It's sort of like a chicken and an egg kind of conversation where, it's an interplay, I think, between the legislation and our court system that sort of moves the ball forward.

烟草和铅产业也有说客和影响力，但它们后来遇到了能一点点削弱其权力的东西——大量诉讼。

The tobacco and lead industries had lobbyists and influence too, but they faced something that began to chip away at their power, lawsuits and lots of them.

我们在烟草行业看到过，阿片类药物危机里也一样，诉讼真正引起了联邦立法机构的重视，促使他们出台全面的法规来应对公众面临的这些伤害。

I think we've seen it in the tobacco space, and we saw it certainly in the opioid space where lawsuits really, got the attention of legislatures at the federal level to to enact some sort of whole scale regulation addressing these harms that the public was facing.

但这个类比也不完全准确。

But again, the analogy isn't perfect.

和烟草、阿片类药物或铅不同，目前还没有充分的研究能证明微塑料会致病。

Unlike tobacco or opioids or lead, there isn't robust research proving that microplastics cause disease.

所以，对微塑料的监管，通常是因为它们出现在了不该出现的地方。

So when microplastics are regulated, it's usually for showing up in places where they aren't supposed to be.

除了《无微珠水域法案》之外，联邦层面并没有其他法规，而这个法案只针对洗掉型化妆品里的微珠。

There is no federal regulations apart from the microbead free waters act, which targeted microbeads in wash off cosmetics only.

你还记得那些在洗面奶和沐浴露里看到的彩色小珠子吗？

Remember those colorful little beads you'd find in face and body washes?

那些可不只是普通的去角质颗粒。

Those weren't just little exfoliating balls.

它们其实就是微塑料。

They were microplastics.

后来各州和地方政府发现它们出现在饮用水里，就开始陆续出台禁令。

And after state and local governments noticed them showing up in drinking water supplies, they started passing their own bans.

到了2015年，联邦层面也跟着出台了禁令。

And in 2015, a federal ban followed suit.

我觉得实际情况是，联邦政府有时候会说：我们不想搞成七零八落的局面。

So what I do think happens is sometimes the federal government will say, we don't want this patchwork.

不想这边一个州管，那边一个州不管。

We don't want some states doing something and other states not doing something.

所以有时候，这种不统一反而会推动联邦政府采取行动。

So sometimes the patchwork can spur a federal government to work.

而微珠禁令的出台，恰恰就是这么个情况。

And that's actually what we saw happening with the Microbead Free Water Act.

但禁掉某种特定产品里的微珠是一回事，尤其是当它们能被糖或盐这类替代品取代的时候。

But it's one thing to ban microbeads in a specific product, especially when they can be replaced by another exfoliant, like sugar or salt.

但要全面整治现代社会里用到的所有塑料，那就是另一回事了。

It's another thing to tackle all of the plastics we use in modern society.

塑料躺椅、塑料洗衣篮、雪橇、花盆，这些都算。

Plastic lawn chairs, plastic laundry baskets, sleds, planters.

它们功能各不相同，但结尾都差不多。

They all have different functions, but they have similar endings.

时间一长，它们就会开始分解。

Over time, they will break down.

慢慢地。

Slowly.

一点一点掉碎屑，裂开，越来越小。

They'll shed pieces, break apart, and get smaller and smaller.

我拿到微塑料检测结果后，立马给内特打了电话。

I called up Nate when I got my microplastic test results back.

嗨，内特。

Hi, Nate.

哎，你好。

Hey.

前几天我收到一封邮件，说我的微塑料检测结果出来了，嗯。

I got an email the other day saying that my microplastics test results are ready Uh-huh.

就是布莱恩·约翰逊开发的那个《不要死》APP里的测试。

In the Don't Die app by Brian Johnson.

行吧。

So okay.

然后我就打开这个APP，准备去查看我的健康板块。

So I'm opening up the app, and I'm gonna go to my health.

好的。

Okay.

之后我还看到了我的生物标志物数据。

And then I have my biomarkers.

一共四项指标，结果全不在正常范围内。

I have four biomarkers and it says all four out of range.

你看这事儿闹的。

So let's see.

哦，原来是这样啊。

Oh, okay.