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提升人类在运动、娱乐和生活中的表现的科学与实践。
The science and practice of enhancing human performance for sport, play, and life.
欢迎来到Perform频道。
Welcome to Perform.
我是博士。
I'm Doctor.
安迪·加尔平。
Andy Galpin.
我是一名教授兼科学家，同时担任帕克大学人类表现中心的执行主任。
I'm a professor and scientist and the executive director of the Human Performance Center at Parker University.
今天的对话中，我会和我的朋友、博士聊聊。
In today's conversation, I'm going be talking to my friend, Doctor.
汤米·伍德。
Tommy Wood.
汤米在剑桥大学获得了生物化学学士学位，在牛津大学取得医学学位，还拥有生理学与神经科学的哲学博士学位。
Tommy has an undergraduate degree in biochemistry from Cambridge University, a medical degree from Oxford, as well as a PhD in physiology and neuroscience.
汤米目前在华盛顿大学主持新生儿神经科学实验室。
Tommy is now running his neonatal neuroscience lab at the University of Washington.
除此之外，他还是一名经验丰富的赛艇运动员和力量运动员，曾为各类运动员提供指导，最近尤其专注于一级方程式车手。
In addition to all that, he is a well versed rower and strongman and has worked with athletes across every sport and in particular, more recently focusing a lot on Formula One drivers.
我提到这些，是为了让你明白，汤米在脑健康和认知功能领域，能把生理学、科学和实际应用无缝切换的能力，简直无人能及。
And I say all this to help you understand that Tommy's ability to run back and forth between physiology and science and application in a human performance is really unparalleled in the areas of brain health and cognitive function.
所以今天我们的讨论，主要围绕这些方面展开。
So in our discussions today, we talk a lot about those areas.
我们会深入探讨如何提升、理解、识别短期的认知表现——这到底意味着什么，从运动、营养补充和科技角度又是什么样子。
We talk about how to enhance, understand, identify short term cognitive performance, what that even means, what that looks like from an exercise and supplementation and technology perspective.
然后我们也会聊一聊长期的效果。
And then we talk about how that looks in the long term.
比如，如何预防、甚至延缓或阻止像痴呆和大脑衰老这类问题。
So how do we prevent and even deter or eliminate things like dementia and brain aging.
在我们的对话中，汤米会提出至少五个我觉得非常反直觉的观点，换句话说，可能会让不少人感到意外，甚至有点不爽。
And Tommy, over the course of our discussion, will bring up at least five points that I feel like are quite counterintuitive, or in other words, are going to surprise or potentially even aggravate some folks out there.
说实话，我觉得我们很多人对短期和长期认知功能的现有研究现状并没有真正理解。
The reality of it is, I don't think a lot of us truly understand the current state of the literature on both short and long term cognitive function.
汤米在这段对话中做得非常好，把这个问题直接摆到了台面上。
And Tommy does a wonderful job in this conversation of bringing that to the forefront.
这样一来，我们就能更清楚地了解研究到底说了什么，以及这些发现如何应用到实际生活中。
So we really are more understanding of what the literature says and how that transfers into practical application.
还有一件事我觉得值得提一下，也是我经常被问到的：像运动这样的因素，是如何对大脑健康产生因果影响的。
Another thing I think worth mentioning here that we get into that I get asked about all the time is how things like exercise have a causal effect on brain health.
当然，肌肉力量和体能表现好，跟衰老得慢之间确实有关联，但这种影响是直接的吗？如果是，机制又是什么？
Of course, there's a correlation between strong muscle and physical performance and how well you age, but how is it directly impacting and how is that a causal if it is at all?
汤米用一种人人都能听懂的方式，把这些问题一一讲得清清楚楚。
Tom Lee wonderfully walks us through all that in a way that I think everyone can comprehend and get a great grasp on.
所以，带着这些背景，希望你们今天能好好享受这段与伍德医生的对话。
So with all that in mind, I hope you thoroughly enjoy this conversation today with Doctor.
汤米·伍德。
Tommy Wood.
博士。
Doctor.
汤米·伍德，欢迎来到《表现》节目。
Tommy Wood, welcome to Perform.
非常感谢你们邀请我。
Thanks so much for having me.
能和你们一起对话，我真的很兴奋。
I'm really excited to be here with you.
今天我想聊很多话题，有些是我们之前讨论过的，但大部分内容我其实并不清楚答案。
There's a lot of things I wanna get into today, things that you and I have chatted about before, but most of the things that I actually don't know the answer to.
我希望你能帮我梳理一下，关于如何提升大脑表现，以及我们现在能做些什么来短期和长期地维护脑健康。
Hopefully, I can probably some information out of you about enhancing brain performance, things that we can do now in the short term as well as long term brain health.
不过在那之前，为了我自己能说得更准确——我知道我有时候说法不对，所以想请你帮我纠正一下。
But I think before we can get to that, for my own personal sake, I know I say some of these things wrong, so I'm hoping you can kinda fix this.
也许我们先从最基本的问题开始：什么是认知表现？
But maybe it would be best for us to just start off with what is cognitive performance?
你怎么定义这个概念？
How do you define that?
我们该怎么理解它？
How should we think about it?
认知表现具体包括哪些方面？
And what are the aspects of cognitive performance?
最近这个领域经常提到一个问题，就是这些概念其实很难准确定义。
I think one issue that's come up a lot recently in this in this field is that some of these things are actually very hard to define.
当我们从更广的角度来看认知功能时，传统上我们会看一个人在标准认知测试中的表现，比如智商测试。
So when we think about cognitive function more broadly, the way that we've traditionally thought about it is how do you perform on some standard cognitive test, like an IQ test?
还有各种其他功能的测试，比如执行功能或反应抑制——也就是抑制自己做出反应的冲动，这在规划中非常重要，而前额叶皮层在这里起着关键作用。
And then there are tests for a whole bunch of other functions like executive function or response inhibition, like trying to, suppress the desire to to make a response, which is an important part of planning, and the prefrontal cortex is a plays a big role there.
另外还有工作记忆的测试，以及我们在短时间内学习和记忆的能力。
Also testing working memory and all these other things that we might, or, you know, our ability to learn and remember in short periods of time.
我们过去一直用这些指标，是因为我们只能测量这些。
And that's kind of what we've had because that's what we've got.
我们有标准化的测试。
We have standardized tests.
我们知道你的分数在人群中处于什么水平。
We know how you score compared to other people.
我们自以为了解哪些大脑区域参与了这些功能。
We think we understand which parts of the brain are involved in those functions.
但真正的问题是，这些测试虽然和你我日常需要的能力有点关联，但这种关联并不准确。
But the the real problem is that while they do relate slightly to the different functions you and I would want to do from day to day, it's that's an imperfect association.
而且，还有大量大脑功能是我们用这些测试根本测不出来的。
And beyond that, there are a whole suite of cognitive functions or things that we do with our brain that you can't really measure with those tests.
所以问题的一部分在于：你到底希望自己的大脑能做什么？你几乎得把自己当作基准，因为我可以测你的执行功能，也可以测你的工作记忆。
So part of the problem is, defining what is it that you want your brain to do, and you almost have to become sort of your own baseline because I can test your executive function, and I can test your working memory.
但如果你是个艺术家，这些测试和你的实际能力根本没关系。
But if you're an artist, those things don't relate to that at all.
当然，你也可以做一些创造力方面的标准化测试，但那完全不是一回事。
And there you know, you can do some standardized tests of creativity and stuff like that, but it it's just not the same.
所以我觉得，认知功能其实是非常个人化的，它取决于你想让大脑做什么，以及什么时候做。
So I think cognitive function in reality is very personal, and it depends on what you want your brain to do and when you want your brain to do it.
不过，如果非要给大脑健康下个定义的话，我认为就是拥有一副能胜任这些任务的大脑。
But I think that if we're trying to define brain health for want of a better word, it is having a brain that does those things.
因此，关键在于了解你想做什么、什么时候做，以及如何支持你的大脑去完成这些目标。
So some understanding of what you want to do, when you want to do it, and how can you support your brain in doing that.
明白了。
Okay.
所以我——双关语——我的大脑是这样整合这些概念的。对。
So the way that I, pun intended, my brain puts this together Uh-huh.
我觉得，当我提到大脑健康时，我指的是我的大脑里有没有病变？
Is I think about when I say brain health, I'm referring to do I have lesions in my brain?
有没有脑损伤？
Do I have brain damage?
而当我想到认知功能时，我通常指的是表现。
And then when I think of cognitive function, I'm usually thinking about performance.
对吧？
Right?
比如反应速度、记忆力、词汇回忆、执行功能。
So reaction time, memory, word recall, executive function.
这样概括合适吗？还是得再加一点？
Is that a fair way to characterize it, or should I add a third part there?
或者
Or
我更倾向于从整体上来理解脑健康。
I think about brain health more holistically.
事实上，我们知道大脑的结构和功能是紧密关联的。
And in reality, we know that structure and function in the brain are directly linked.
大脑本身有很多冗余机制，即使某个区域的功能受损，也可能自行恢复，或者你根本察觉不到它已经丧失了。
The the brain has quite a lot of redundancy, so you can lose function in an area and either recover it or maybe you don't even notice that that function is lost.
所以我不太会把这两者这么明确地分开来看。
So I wouldn't even necessarily separate them out in that way.
我觉得这得看你在测什么。
I think it would depend on what you're measuring.
我们可以通过脑电图来衡量大脑健康，比如大脑不同区域的电活动，以及这些网络之间的连接情况。
So we can measure brain health based on an EEG signal, like different electrical activity in different regions of the brain, how those different networks are connected.
我们也可以从你今天感觉怎么样来评估大脑健康。
We can also measure brain health in terms of, well, how do you how do you feel today?
因为这实际上是你的大脑所经历的一切的综合体现。
Because that's essentially an integrated output of all the different things that your brain is experiencing.
所以我更倾向于从更广的角度来看待大脑健康，这既关系到你每时每刻的表现，也关系到如何提升它，还包括你长期的功能趋势——你将来会不会面临功能显著衰退或痴呆的风险？
So that's why I think about brain health more broadly, and that relates both to minute to minute performance and enhancing that as well as what's your long term trajectory of function, and, you know, are you then at risk of significant detriments of function and dementia long term?
对。
Right.
比如，如果我大脑的某个结构真的受损了，那短期表现肯定也会受影响。
Like, clearly, if I have some physical structure damage in my brain, I won't have the acute performance either.
没错。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
我可能会出现各种你提到的情况。
I'm gonna have some however that may manifest itself could be any of the examples you said.
但反过来也成立吗？
But does that work backwards as well?
也就是说，如果我认知功能出现困难，是不是也意味着可能存在结构性损伤？
In other words, because I'm maybe having a hard time with some form of cognitive function, does that indicate some likelihood of actually having some structural damage as well?
还是说这只能单向推断？
Or are those is that street one way?
由于大脑结构具有冗余性，功能下降往往先于影像上能观察到的明显变化，你可能先感到能力减退，但扫描还看不出问题。
Because of the redundancy in the structural systems, you don't necessarily, have a direct one to one connection, and you'll probably lose or for some people, you lose some functions or the the functions decline before you can see, say, on brain imaging.
是的。
Oh, yes.
这里出现了一些萎缩。
Here's a a some atrophy.
这里可以看到体积减少，或者某个区域出现了损伤。
Here's some loss of volume or here's damage in a certain area.
我觉得这可能部分是因为我们目前能测量的工具分辨率有限。
So I think that may just be partly because of the the resolution of the things that we can measure.
也许将来有一天，MRI的分辨率足够高，能清晰看到每一根微小血管，以及大脑各个区域的细微结构，那时我们就能建立更直接的关联。
So maybe we get to a point where you have a really, really strong MRI, and we can see in very fine detail all the little blood vessels and all the, you know, small parts of all the regions of the brain, and then you could get a more direct connection.
所以我认为功能和结构之间的联系是非常紧密的。
So I think they are very closely connected.
如果你的功能在衰退，大概率是伴随着某种结构变化的，但更可能的情况是，功能下降会先于影像上的结构改变出现，因为功能还受营养状态、线粒体活性等其他因素影响。
And if you if you're losing a function, you're there's probably gonna be a structural correlate of that, but in all likelihood, because function is also gonna be driven by, you know, nutrient status, mitochondrial function, some of these other things, you might start to have issues with function before you see a structural issue on brain scan or something like that.
明白了。
Okay.
如果真是这样，那当我改善了某些短期的、急性的功能表现，这些改善有多大可能转化为长期的大脑健康呢？
If then that is true, if I improve some sort of I'll just keep calling these short term acute functionalities, How likely is that then to carry over into long term brain health?
我看待大脑的方式呢，因为你知道，我这个人有点直来直去。
The the way that I think about the brain is because I'm a I'm I'm a bit of a meathead, as you know.
是的
Yeah.
我喜欢举重。
I I enjoy lifting weights.
我研究大脑的时间越长，就越觉得大脑对刺激的反应方式，跟骨骼肌对运动的反应很相似。
And the more time I spend studying the brain, the more the brain could, be be thought to respond similarly to, say, skeletal muscle in response to exercise.
你几十年研究的那些机制，在大脑里也差不多是同样的道理。
So all the things that you've spent decades researching, these processes are very similar in the brain.
这其实意味着，功能是由刺激驱动的。
And what that really means is that function is driven by stimulus.
就像你想变得强壮、肌肉发达，就必须给骨骼肌施加机械张力，不管其他方面做得多好。
Just like if you're trying to get, strong and jacked, you need to apply, mechanical tension to the skeletal muscle, right, regardless of everything else that you do.
睡眠和营养这些因素能帮你提升反应效果，但如果没有刺激，就不会有反应。
And you can improve you can improve that response with sleep and nutrition and things like that, but no stimulus, no response.
大脑本质上也是如此。
And the brain is essentially the same.
当你用特定的活动刺激大脑的某些网络或区域时，就会看到结构上的改善，因为结构正是由这种刺激以及大脑对它的反应所塑造的。
And what you see is that when you stimulate certain networks or areas of the brain with certain activities, in response, you then see an improvement in structure because structure comes from that stimulus and then the way that the brain responds to it.
而大脑几乎在人的一生中都具备这种能力。
And the brain is capable of that pretty much throughout the entire lifespan.
这真的很有趣，因为每次听到这类说法，我们通常都会联想到神经可塑性。
That's really interesting because almost always when we hear this stuff talked about, we hear it in the sense of neuroplasticity.
对。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
你面临的是一个能力问题，一种神经适应，虽然它确实是结构性的，但大多数时候我们并不把它看作结构上的变化。
So you have a capacity issue, some neurological adaptation, which, you know, it is structural, but for the most time, we don't think about that as a structural change.
我们只把它当作功能性的变化。
We just think it as a functional.
对。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
所以你获得了新的能力。
So you have a new capacity.
你的反应速度变快了。
Your reaction time is faster.
你的词汇回忆能力也提升了。
Your word recall whatever.
对吧？
Right?
但你真正想说的是，还存在一种明显的生理变化，就像肌肉一样。
But what you're actually saying is there's also a as noticeable physical change akin to muscle.
对吧？
Right?
当我锻炼肌肉时，我的神经系统也会发生适应，让我变得更有力。
So when I get my when I train my muscle, I have neurological adaptations that make me stronger.
我的二头肌也变大了。
I also have larger biceps.
我并不是在假设我的大脑没有变大。
I'm not assuming I don't have a larger brain.
对吧？
Right?
当然，颅腔的空间是有限的，但在一定程度上，你的大脑确实会变大。
Well, obviously, the the the space within the skull is limited, but to some extent, you do have a larger brain.
尤其是随着年龄增长，如果你走上了像痴呆这样的发展轨迹，大脑会缩小。
And we know that with, aging in particular, and as you follow a trajectory, say, into dementia, your brain gets smaller.
对吧？
Right?
大脑会出现萎缩。
You get atrophy of the brain.
我们也能观察到，大脑体积会因某些刺激而增大。
You can then see increases in the volume of the brain in response to certain stimuli.
所以当大脑体积随着年龄增长开始缩小后，某些刺激仍能促使它重新增大。
So you can get particularly once the the volume of the brain has started to decline as you get older, you can see then a response in terms of volume with certain stimuli.
这不仅仅是神经元连接的问题，还包括连接的密度增加了。
So that's not just neuronal connections, but it part of it is so you have, you know, greater density of connections.
对吧？
Right?
那是新生成的神经元在彼此交流。
That's the new new neurons talking to each other.
在大脑体积刚开始减少的阶段，人们以为是神经元在死亡，但其实那要到很晚才会发生。
Early on in the the loss of volume of the brain, people think about neurons dying, but actually that happens quite late.
真正发生的是，这些神经元本身在萎缩。
What's happening is those neurons themselves are just shrinking up.
它们依然存在。
So they're still there.
仍然具备正常运作的能力。
They still have the capacity for function.
但在细胞凋亡之前，Agil是自由的。
But Agil free before apoptosis.
对。
Yeah.
如果你不使用它们，它们就会走向那个方向，但还是可以恢复的。
And if you're not using them, right, they will then follow that trajectory, but they that can be recovered.
另外，神经元在大脑细胞中占比还不到一半。
Plus, neurons make up less than 50% of the cells in the brain.
你还有许多其他类型的细胞。
You have multiple other cell types.
大脑里有着庞大的血管网络。
You have a huge vascular network in the brain.
所以当你提升体积时，也在改善其他类型的细胞。
And so when you're improving volume, you're also improving other cell types.
细胞外基质非常重要，它包含许多调控细胞间相互作用的蛋白质。
You know, the extracellular matrix is really important in terms of all the proteins that that sort of regulate how the cells interact.
所以，没错，体积确实是能改善的。
So, yes, you can improve volume.
但不只是神经元的问题。
It's not just neurons, though.
我们常常只关注神经元，其实大脑里还有太多其他事情在同时发生。
And I think often we focus on neurons, but really there's so much else going on at the
与此同时。
same time.
说实话，我以前也完全这么想。
Man, I'm totally guilty of that.
我知道大脑的某些部分会因为各种刺激发生物理性变化，好坏都有，但我总是把这一切归结为神经可塑性。
Like, I just I know certain aspects of the brain change physically in a good or bad way in response to, you know, perturbations, but I just always give it the the neuroplasticity to it.
所以我特别想回头再深入聊聊这个。
So I'd love to come back to that.
我很想多了解一些，但既然说到这儿了，我觉得至少根据我目前对文献的理解，运动这类活动对长期大脑健康有益，这已经没什么好争议的了。
I wanna know more about it, but I gotta ask, since we're right here, I don't think there's any more debate, at least in my understanding of the literature anymore, about whether or not exercise and things like that are good for long term brain health.
是的。
Yeah.
不过，目前争议比较大的是，你能不能真正提升当前的认知能力？
What there is considerable debate on though is can you actually improve cognitive function right now?
你之前提到过这一点。
You said this earlier.
如果你先做一次智商测试，然后我专门给你辅导这套题，你的分数确实会提高。
If you wanna do an IQ test, and then I coach you on that IQ test, you will improve.
是的。
Yeah.
你几乎可以针对大脑的每一个指标进行训练，但这并不等于你的认知能力真的变强了。
You could probably pick about every metric in the brain possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're getting better cognitive function.
这只能说明大脑具有可塑性，会对刺激做出适应性反应。
It just means the brain is is neuroplastic and it chews an adaptation response to stimuli.
所以我更想听听你对这个整体观点的看法。
So I'm more interested in in where you stand on that global argument.
首先，这根本是个有争议的问题吗？
First of all, is there even an argument?
科学上是不是已经有比较明确的结论了？
Is it pretty well scientifically established?
这个领域的主流观点是什么？
Where does that field line?
总的来说，你能告诉我，我们真的能提升认知能力吗？
And, you know, overall, tell me, can we actually improve cognitive function?
如果真能提升，那我特别想知道，该怎么做？
And then for sure, if we can, I wanna know how?
这其实要看问的是谁，以及你用什么方式来衡量了
So, again, it really depends who you ask and how you're measuring
认知能力。
cognitive function.
是的。
Yeah.
你这是在问我啊。
You're asking me.
但如果你去问一大群认知神经科学家，甚至包括我一些同事，有人会说可以，
But if you were to if you were to sample a large number of cognitive neuroscientists, and even some of the people that I work with, some will say, yes.
说能提升认知能力，也有人会说不行。
You can improve cognitive function, and some will say, no.
说根本做不到。
You can't.
这在一定程度上取决于我们怎么测试，这点我们之前其实已经聊过了。
And this is partly driven by how we're testing it, right, which we which we've kinda covered.
而且我们确实知道，受教育时间更长的人，认知表现更好，但部分原因只是他们更擅长应试罢了。
And, yes, we know that people who spend longer in education, they have improved cognitive function, but part of it is just because they get better at taking tests.
没错。
Yep.
对吧？
Right?
只要任何研究对认知功能进行长期追踪，所有人都会进步，包括对照组，因为他们只是越来越熟悉测试本身。
And when any study does longitudinal testing of cognitive function, everybody gets better, even the control group, because they just just get better at taking the test.
所以当你从长远角度思考时——我们待会儿还会再谈这个——我认为有足够的证据表明，在认知功能衰退期间，我们确实能加以改善。
So then when you're thinking about when you're thinking long term, which we'll come back to, I think there is a good amount of evidence that we can improve cognitive function when when it's when you're in a period of decline.
但如果你现在就想问：我该怎么提升自己的认知能力？
But then if you're thinking right now, how can I improve my cognitive function?
我觉得这个问题其实跟技能培养有关，关键在于我们到底希望大脑完成什么样的任务。
I think the way that I think about it is again related to skill development and what it is that we actually want our our brains to do.
人类的大脑，比任何其他物种都更擅长适应环境，以便在其中发挥最佳表现。
And the human brain, more so than any other species, is evolved to adapt to the environment so that it can optimally perform within that environment.
也就是说，只要你希望大脑掌握什么技能，并且用对方法训练，它就会进步——无论是语言、运动，还是其他任何技能，一旦你掌握了，认知能力自然就提升了。
That means that whatever you want your brain to do and if you train it in the right way, you will improve function, any skill learning, language, sports, and then beyond then when you've done that, you have improved cognitive function.
对吧？
Right?
你是在用大脑去完成某项具体的任务。
You're using your brain to perform some skill.
你随着时间推移在这方面进步了，认知能力自然也就提升了。
You have improved at that over time, and your cognitive function has therefore improved.
我们还知道，特定技能的学习确实能带来更广泛的认知提升，尤其是长期来看。
We also know that the the same carryover from specific skill learning to more broader cognitive function, particularly longer term.
但如果你这么定义的话，我认为技能提升的过程，其实就是认知能力增强的过程。
But if you define it that way, I think that we know that the process of skill development is the process of enhancing cognitive function.
接下来就是怎么最大限度地促进这种适应，以及如何在掌握技能后充分发挥它的作用。
And then it's just a case of how do I maximize that adaptation and how do I maximize the expression of that skill once I've attained it.
本期节目由AG1赞助。
Today's episode is sponsored by AG1.
AG1是一种含有益生菌、益生元和适应原的维生素矿物质饮品。
AG1 is a vitamin mineral drink with probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens.
一开始，我对AG1和其他保健品公司一样持高度怀疑态度，但经过几个月与他们的首席营养科学家和整个团队的深入交流，我被AG1在原料选择上的严谨态度和持续优化配方、确保成分剂量精准的做法打动了。
Initially, I was extremely skeptical of AG1 as I am with all supplement companies, but after months of discussions with their lead nutrition scientist and the general team at AG1, I've been impressed by AG1's commitment to sourcing the highest quality ingredients and constantly updating their formulas to have the right ingredients in the optimal amounts.
AG1还对产品进行严格检测，确保每一批次都不含违禁物质、过敏原、重金属、微生物、农药、除草剂、残留溶剂和霉菌毒素。
AG1 also rigorously test their products to ensure that every single batch is free of banned substances, allergens, heavy metals, microbes, pesticides, herbicides, residual solvents, and mycotoxins.
它甚至获得了著名的NSF运动认证第三方检测认证。
It's even earned the prestigious NSF certified for sport third party testing approval stamp.
现在，健身圈里的人大多都在谈论宏量营养素，比如蛋白质、碳水化合物和脂肪。
Now most people in the performance space talk a lot about macronutrients like protein, carbohydrates, and fats.
这些当然非常重要，但维生素和矿物质等微量营养素也同样关键。
And these are obviously critically important, but so are the micronutrients like vitamins and minerals.
即使你吃得健康，也很难同时摄取足够的维生素、矿物质，再加上益生菌、益生元和适应原，来让身体保持最佳状态。
And even if you're eating a healthy diet, it's often hard to get enough of these vitamins and minerals along with the probiotics, prebiotics, and adaptogens to keep your body performing at its best.
正因如此，还有其他很多原因，我几乎每天都服用AG1。
It's for these reasons and many others that I personally take AG1 almost every day.
当然，它不能替代健康的食物，但能很好地弥补你饮食中的营养缺口，提升能量、增强免疫力，同时有助于维持健康的肠道菌群等等。
Now it's of course not a replacement for eating whole healthy foods, but it is a great way to make sure that you're plugging in any gaps in your nutrition to improve your energy, bolster your immune system, and just generally help promote a healthy gut microbiome and more.
如果你想试试AG1，可以去drinkag1.com/perform，免费领取五份旅行装，外加一整年的维生素D3加K2。
If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/perform to receive five free travel packs plus a year supply of vitamin d three plus k two.
再次提醒，去drinkag1.com/perform，就能免费拿到五份旅行装，外加一整年的维生素D3加K2。
Again, that's drinkag1.com/perform to receive five free travel packs plus a year supply of vitamin d three plus k two.
如果我想提升创造力，那就多做些有创意的事情。
If I wanna improve creativity, just do more creative tasks.
对。
Yes.
如果我想增强记忆力，就多练习记忆。
If I wanna improve memory, practice memory.
对。
Yes.
这大概也适用于我们对认知功能的任何定义。
And this probably expands to any way we would define cognitive function Yeah.
对于一个普通年轻健康的人来说。
For a normal young healthy person.
是吧？
Right?
所以第一个可操作的步骤就是这个。
So actionable step number one would be simply that.
对吧？
Right?
如果你想提高写作能力，那就多写。
If you wanna get better at writing, write.
我
I
我有一个特别喜欢的例子。
I that was one of my favorite.
我有几个朋友是作家，他们总能轻松地在最后一刻，用很低的能量写出三千字，简直让人惊叹，这要是我得花好几个月。
I had a a friend several friends who are writers, and it's stunning how low energy, last minute that they can pull up, smash out 3,000 words, and you're like, that would have taken me months.
得花好几个月才能写完。
Months to write.
对吧？
Right?
这可是他们天生就会的事。
This is what they do naturally.
这话说得太有道理了。
That makes a ton of sense.
那更广泛的适用性在哪呢？
Where is the broader applicability?
有没有哪些特定的认知功能，更容易迁移到其他方面？
Are there any maybe specific domains of cognitive function that have better transferability to others?
对。
Mhmm.
有没有哪些具体的方法，比如运动、饮食、脑力训练设备或者技巧，能带来更广泛的效果？还是说，大多数方法都只对个体本身有效，迁移作用非常有限？
Are there any particular types, whether this is maybe exercise or nutrition or brain training devices or tactics that have a a more wide range and you get broader applicability, or is it all pretty much they're gonna be good on the individual one and then have very little transfer?
这其实就是近迁移和远迁移的区别。
So this is the principle of near transfer versus far transfer.
近迁移指的是，你练什么就擅长什么，但很难迁移到别的地方。
So near transfer means that you learn to get good at the thing that you want to get good at, and then it doesn't really translate elsewhere.
过去几十年里，脑力训练通常遇到的问题就在这儿。
It's it's been the problem with, brain training, as has typically been done for the past few decades.
这就是为什么很多人觉得认知能力没法提升的原因——当你做脑力训练时，你只是变擅长了那种特定的测试形式。
And that's one of the reasons why people think you can't enhance cognitive function is because when you do brain training, what you get better at is just some version of the test.
但这并不会让你在现实生活中变得更高效。
That doesn't then make you a a a better functioning person out in the real world.
不过，如果你的近迁移对你有用，比如写作或者其他特定技能、语言，那近迁移就已经足够了。
But if your near transfer is relevant to you, say it's writing or some other kind of specific skill or language, right, then near transfer can be enough.
但我们也知道，如果你想实现远迁移，也就是提升某种认知能力，让它能带动其他认知能力，那么那些训练前额叶决策能力的活动，似乎确实能带来一定的远迁移效果。
But we also know that if you're trying to think about, so far transfer, so improving some cognitive function that then translates to other cognitive functions, Then activities that, train certain aspects of decision making in the prefrontal in the prefrontal cortex, they seem to be associated with some, some far transfer.
你只是变得更擅长管理自己的思维和决策过程，而这能应用到各种不同的情境中。
Just you get you get better at regulating your own internal thought and decision making processes, and that relates to a wide variety of of scenarios.
还有你提到的其他一些方式，比如运动，它确实有帮助，但这种帮助是运动特有的。
Then, some of the other things that you mentioned, like exercise is one that supports and it's it's exercise specific.
力量训练和有氧运动分别对大脑的不同区域产生影响，
So resistance training and aerobic training have effects on different areas of the brain and
效果都不错，但各有侧重。
they good but different.
是的
Yeah.
两者都好，但作用不同。
Both good but different.
但这一点也适用于更广泛的功能。
But then that applies to to functions more broadly.
对吧？
Right?
你去跑步的时候，有氧运动特别能提升某些方面的记忆力。
You're going for a run and that's you know, aerobic exercise is particularly good at, improving certain aspects of memory.
所以你记的是什么并不重要。
And so it doesn't matter what you're memorizing.
对吧？
Right?
记忆力整体上都会得到提升。
Memory is is is broadly, enhanced.
我们都知道一些对大脑健康和认知功能至关重要的生活方式因素，它们不仅能整体提升认知能力，也有助于技能学习本身。
So some of the the lifestyle factors that we know are are critical for for brain health and cognitive function, they broadly support cognitive function as well as, skill learning in the first place.
但有些特定技能，可能就只跟这项技能本身的使用有关。
But then some specific skills may be, you know, just just related to to to that skill as as you use it.
明白了。
Okay.
我给你看几个虚拟形象。
I'm gonna give you a couple of avatars here.
对。
Mhmm.
我这是在问你个人的看法。
And I'm asking this personally.
你想啊，你接触过那么多运动员，简直涵盖了所有运动项目。
Imagine because you've worked with athletes across I mean, jeez, every sport.
只要是能想到的，你都接触过。
Imaginable.
你也跟行业里的人打过交道。
You've worked with industry folks.
你也接触过非运动员群体。
You've worked with nonathletes.
你也做过脑震荡方面的研究。
You've done concussion stuff.
你也做过跟衰老相关的项目。
You've done aging stuff.
所以你的技能覆盖面非常广。
So you're you're all over the map in terms of your skill set.
对。
Mhmm.
所以，有人来找你，说：嘿。
So with this, somebody comes to you and says, hey.
你看。
Look.
我的大脑很健康。
My brain's healthy.
我才四十岁。
I'm 40 years old.
我对痴呆症、阿尔茨海默病这些病不太担心。
I'm not super worried about dementia, Alzheimer's, things like that.
影响我健康的生活方式因素主要是运动。
I'm I'm my lifestyle factors are exercise.
我什么都做，你知道的，我睡眠很好。
I do all you know, I sleep well.
我不喝酒。
I don't drink.
我也不抽烟，诸如此类。
I don't smoke, so on and so forth.
我没有特别在找的东西。
I don't have a thing I'm looking for.
我说不清楚自己到底想找什么。
I don't know what I'm looking for.
也许我经营一家公司，还有孩子，类似这样的情况吧。
I maybe run a company, I have kids, something like that.
我现在该做些什么来提升大脑功能呢？
What should I do to enhance my brain function right now?
我也说不清这到底意味着什么。
And I can't define that.
我不确定这是否意味着我需要更有创造力。
I don't know if that means I need to be creative.
我不确定这是否意味着我需要更快的反应速度。
I don't know if that means I need to have more, you know, reaction time.
按照你开头说的，你会怎么帮助这样一个人呢？
What like, where would you start with that individual in terms of what you said at the beginning?
你应该先给自己做个基础测试。
I you should make your own baseline test.
我是说，我该想些什么呢？有没有一些通用的方法，比如你建议的那些？
Like, what should I be thinking about, and are there some tactics where you say, okay.
我需要掌握所有信息。
I need all the information.
我其实只需要两三个一开始就能见效的要点就够了。
I would really need all But maybe two or three things here that start off that generally work pretty well.
通常来说，当有人跟我说‘我身体挺健康’的时候，我会想，
So, generally, I'd think about when something like that comes to me and they say, I'm healthy.
我的脑子运转得很好。
My brain works great.
我想尽可能提升它，或者至少让它保持得久一点。
I'd like to improve it as much as I can or maintain it for as long as possible.
那第一件事，就是确认这句话是不是真的。
The first thing is just to make sure if that first statement is true.
最简单的方法就是做几项基础血液检查，了解一下营养状况，这对大脑特别关键。
And the easiest way to do that is with some simple blood tests, you know, determine some like, nutritional status becomes really critical for the brain.
营养不良的情况我们也能应对，年轻时大脑照样能正常运作。
We can we can deal with poor nutritional status, and the brain works just fine early in life.
但如果你想把各方面都做到极致，那就要注意维生素D、铁、镁、B族维生素、欧米伽-3，还有血糖调节——至少得确保你没有前期糖尿病，这些都很基础。
But if you're trying to, you know, maximize everything, we know, vitamin D, iron status, magnesium, B vitamins, omega threes, some of these and glucose glucose regulation or at least just making sure you don't have prediabetes.
就是一些最基本的东西。
You know, some of the basics.
我建议先把这些都检查清楚，其实解决起来并不难。
I would just make sure that all of that is sort of buttoned up, and that's and that's easy to address.
你是不是主要把它们看作能量代谢的指标？
Would you mainly say those are energy metabolism markers?
只要你的能量代谢没问题，大概就没什么大碍。
As long as your energy metabolism's fine, you're probably okay.
关于大脑的能量代谢和大脑结构之间的关系，有个挺有意思的现象：它其实呈一个U型曲线。
This is an interesting thing about energy metabolism in the brain and as it relates to brain structure as well, which is that it kinda follows a a u shaped curve.
当能量供应不足时，大脑的结构和功能就会开始衰退，因为根本没足够的能量来维持它。
So at low levels of energy availability, we start to lose brain structure and brain function just because we don't have the energy to support it.
而且我们还明显看到能量过剩带来的负面影响。
And then we see a very clear energy toxicity effect as well.
比如前期糖尿病、糖尿病、血脂异常，这些能量过剩的指标其实非常普遍。
So if we have, you know, prediabetes, diabetes, lipid dysregulation, you know, all these markers of energy toxicity, which are very, very common.
对吧？
Right?
美国三分之二，甚至更多的成年人，都存在某种形式的问题。
Two thirds, if not more, adults in The US have some version of that.
接着，认知功能和脑容量就开始下降了。
Then you start to see a decline in cognitive function and brain volume as well.
所以，是的，能量调节确实很重要，但这些营养素对大脑结构也有各自独立的影响。
So, yes, energy regulation is really important, but some of those nutrients have their own, effects in terms of brain structure as well.
比如B族维生素和欧米伽三脂肪酸之间的关系，已经反复被证实存在相互作用。
So if you think about the relationship between B vitamins and omega threes, this has been shown again and again and again that they interact.
如果你只有一种营养状态良好，另一种不足，那就看不到明显效果，反过来也一样。
So if you have good states of one but not the other, you see no effect and vice versa.
这就是为什么有些试验说，我们给了Omega-3，但没效果；给了B族维生素，也没效果——因为他们都没考虑另一个因素。
And this is where we've had trials that say, we give omega threes, but they don't work, or we give B Vitamins, they don't work, but they haven't taken the the the other into account.
这其实很合理，因为如果你想让DHA——那种长链Omega-3脂肪酸——到达突触，帮助神经元之间的沟通，它首先得进入大脑，而这通常需要良好的胰岛素敏感性和能量代谢，然后还得走一条路径，被连接到某种磷脂上。
And it makes perfect sense because if you want DHA, the long chain omega three fatty acid, to sit in the synapse where you want it, know, to help communication between two neurons, it needs to first get into the brain, and that requires usually healthy instant sensitivity and energy regulation, and then it needs to go down the path of being attached to some kind of phospholipid.
对吧？
Right?
比如胆碱、丝氨酸或者乙醇胺。
So choline or serine or ethinolamine.
这些物质得先存在，然后还得靠甲基化作用，让它们能顺利组合在一起，这时候B族维生素的作用就体现出来了。
So you need that to be available, and then you need methylation to work so that these things get attached together, that's where the B vitamins become important.
这些成分不仅直接参与大脑结构的构建，也关系到能量和线粒体的功能。
So some of these things are directly structural, as well as being, you know, functional thinking about energy and mitochondria.
我不想跑题。
I don't wanna lose the plot.
我马上再回到我们刚才说的这个例子。
I'll come back to our avatar here in a second.
关于这个，我还有好几个问题要问。
I have many follow ups to that.
不过我先问一个吧。
I'll I'll ask just one, though.
一般人应该不会觉得，能通过验血来准确评估短期的即时认知功能吧。
I don't think people would have assumed you can get a reasonable assessment of short term immediate acute cognitive function from blood.
所以……
So
目前来看，确实还做不到。
right now, you probably can't.
你和我正在开发一种相对简单的血液检测方法，可以直接反映认知功能、痴呆风险，甚至死亡风险。
You and I are in the process of developing what should be a a fairly simple blood test that relates directly to cognitive function, dementia risk, also mortality risk.
但正如我所说，目前的认知功能评估还谈不上完美。
But like I said, critically, cognitive function right now, it's not gonna be perfect.
对。
Yeah.
但它确实和营养状况以及能量水平有关，这完全说得通。
But it does relate generally to nutritional status and energy status, which which makes perfect sense.
所以除此之外，你还可以进一步把细节做好，确保所有营养元素都到位。
So on top of that, I think you could, you know, really button up the details with making sure that all you have all your nutrient ducks in a row.
但现实情况是，如果你想在人群层面预测某人的认知功能，只要发现他们有前期糖尿病或某种营养缺乏，他们的认知表现通常会较差——这方面的研究多得数不清。
But in reality, if you're gonna try, at the population level at least, try and predict somebody's cognitive function, you could see or if they have prediabetes or any kind of nutrient deficiency, they're gonna have lower cognitive function, and there's there's, you know, dozens, hundreds of studies that show that.
他们必须达到临床上的缺乏标准才行吗？还是说，只要处于最低的十分位，就该引起重视？
Do they need to necessarily be at a technical deficiency there, or or if they're, you know, say, bottom tenth percentile, they should pay attention.
我们有没有关于这些指标临界值的初步数据？
Do we have any insights into where those cutoffs start to lie for these metrics?
对。
Yeah.
一般来说，你说得对，现在我们定义的缺乏状态，通常是指低于正常范围。
It it probably you're you're right that in general, what we consider to be a deficiency nowadays is usually you're below the normal range.
对吧？
Right?
如果你某种营养指标处于最低的2.5%，那日常认知功能可能还不是你最该担心的问题。
You're the bottom 2.5% of some nutrient marker and, right, you're, like, you're gonna have some your day to day cognitive function is not your your main issue.
对吧？
Right?
比这更严重的问题可能已经出现了。
There's gonna be even bigger problems than that.
不过，这些指标确实都有各自的临界值。
But there are some cutoffs for for all of these things.
比如说，血糖调节方面，你得确保空腹血糖在正常范围，别达到糖尿病前期。
Well, in in general, say, blood sugar regulation, you wanna make sure that normal fasting blood sugar, not pre diabetic.
再往下降低，可能也没太大额外好处，但同型半胱氨酸是个反映甲基化状态的指标。
Beyond that, there's probably not that much benefit from from from being lower than that, but something like homocysteine is a marker of methylation status.
一般去化验，正常范围是13到15。
Generally, if you went to a lab, the normal range is thirteen, fifteen.
正常范围是5到15，低端是5，高端是13、14、15。
Five to fifth five to third like, bottom end, five, high end, thirteen, fourteen, 15.
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大多数人会说，目标值最好控制在15以下。
And most people will say, you sort of, like, target below 15.
就认知功能而言，可能得低于11才行。
In terms of cognitive function, it probably needs to be less than 11.
如果是为了降低心血管疾病风险，有些人还会要求更低一点。
Some people would go a little bit lower than that for things like cardiovascular disease risk.
同样地，对于Omega-3脂肪酸，如果你测Omega-3指数，理想情况下最好超过6%，最好能接近8%或更高。
But then similarly for omega three fatty acids, if you do something like the omega three index, you probably wanna be like, ideally over 6%, maybe close to 8% or higher.
就像我刚才说的，这两者之间是相互影响的。
And that like I said, those those two things interact.
对。
Yeah.
根据我们的经验，如果同型半胱氨酸水平超过9到10，
I would say that in our experience, if you are above nine to 10 Mhmm.
我们就得非常认真地排查其他问题了。
For homocysteine, we're we're looking very seriously at other things.
是的。
Yeah.
而且你可能会惊讶，有那么多Omega-3指数低于5%。
And an omega on you'd be surprised how many are under five.
是的。
Yeah.
这其实非常非常普遍。
Like, very, very, very, very commonly.
这就是为什么这些人补充了基本复合维生素和Omega-3之后，脑雾一下子就消失了。
This is why you see in those folks a little bit of basic multivitamin and omega three support, and all of a sudden, the brain fog is gone.
那种认知衰退，真的会突然消失。
The the decline like, it it just disappears Mhmm.
这些人改善得特别快，其实一点都不奇怪。
From these people really quickly, which is is really of no surprise.
那回到我们自己身上，查了这些血液指标之后，接下来该怎么做？
So coming back to us then, we check those blood markers, then what for that?
那你可以确保其他生活方式的因素都安排得井井有条。
So then you can make sure that the other lifestyle factors are sort of all in a row.
当我们考虑长期的认知功能时，其实有一个清晰的框架可以参考。
And when we think about long term cognitive function, there's kind of a a framework for thinking about that.
比如睡眠，还有其他那些因素，还有压力管理。
So sleep and all these other things, stress mitigation.
我肯定会去关注所有这些其他的生活方式因素。
I'd I'd definitely, you know, look at all these other lifestyle factors.
但如果你的目标是提升认知能力，就像我之前说的，我认为刺激才是最重要的。
But if you're thinking about enhancing cognitive function, like I said earlier, I think stimulus is really the most important thing.
你的角色很可能从事一份高度刺激大脑的工作，这我们知道，能长期提升认知功能，降低痴呆风险。
Your avatar probably has quite a cognitively stimulating job, which we know, increases long term cognitive function and decrease the risk of dementia long term.
所以，我会建议制定一个终身持续的、多样化的认知刺激计划。
So then I would think about a a lifelong plan of ongoing broad cognitive stimuli.
如果他从来没学过乐器，那就去学一门乐器。
So if he's never played a musical instrument, he learns to play a musical instrument.
如果他平时锻炼只在健身房，而且方式单一，那就去尝试一项开放性运动。
If he, all his exercise is in the gym and it's unimodal, then he picks up an open skill sport.
去打匹克球，或者学滑板。
He goes to play pickleball or learns to skateboard.
别啊，可别没人玩匹克球了。
God forbid, no more people playing pickleball.
别这样，汤米。
Don't do that, Tommy.
如果他从来没学过别的语言，那就去学一门新语言。
If he, has never spoken another language, then he then he learns a language.
你看文献的时候会发现，有一项活动特别能覆盖这些方面，对认知功能和心理健康都有明显帮助，那就是跳舞。
Some of these things it's interesting when you look across the literature, the one activity that probably ticks a lot of these boxes and seems to really support cognitive function as well as mental health is dancing.
因为跳舞本身就带有玩乐的性质，属于开放性技能。
And because that brings in play, like, it's it's an open skill.
而且还有音乐。
There's music.
这还具有社交性。
It's social.
所以和伴侣一起去上舞蹈课，是把这么多好处结合起来的绝佳方式。
So he so dance class with his partner, right, would be a great a great way to sort of integrate a bunch of these things together.
需要动脑筋。
Cognitive demanding.
这具体指的是什么？
What does that actually mean?
这个问题我其实答不上来。
That's a that's a question that I actually can't answer.
我经常提到认知负荷，
I talk about cognitive demand a bunch.
但说实话，我们并不清楚。
But in reality, we don't know.
比如，你可以被放进核磁共振仪里，我们能观察到大脑哪些区域活跃起来，或者用脑电图也能做同样的事。
Like, it's a it's a theoretical concept because we could put you on an MRI scanner, and we could see which areas of your brain become active, or we could do the same thing with EEG.
但说实话，我该怎么衡量你所承受的刺激，跟别人相比呢？
But in reality, like, how do I quantify the stimulus that's being put on you compared to somebody else?
我的意思是，我们做不到。
I mean, we can't.
大脑里的刺激，该怎么跟举重这样的活动对应起来？
Like, what's the equivalent of volume in the brain, like, compared to, say, lifting weights?
我可以数清楚我做了多少次二头肌弯举，用了多重。
Or I can quantify how many bicep curls did I do, what was the weight.
你可以观察速度，还有其他各种指标。
You you could look at velocity and all these other things.
但大脑没法这么衡量。
We can't do that with the brain.
所以目前来说，还做不到。
So yet.
所以我希望有一天，我们能真正量化它。
And so I kind of hope that one day we'll be able to quantify that.
所以我们可以说，这就是你所承受的认知负荷。
So then we could say this is the cognitive demand that you're getting.
这就是刺激，而我们期待看到的，就是相应的适应变化。
This is the stimulus, and this is the adaptation that we expect to see.
但目前，这部分内容还是带有一些理论色彩。
But right now, it's some of it is still a bit theoretical.
当你思考认知刺激和认知增强时，之所以争议这么多，是因为这个领域其实还很新。
And when you think about cognitive stimulus and cognitive enhancement, one of the reasons why there's so much controversy is because it's actually quite a young field.
现在的认知增强领域，就像几十年前的运动科学，大概四到五十年前吧。
Like, we're where exercise like, cognitive enhance the cognitive enhancement field is where exercise science was decades ago, four or five decades ago maybe.
所以这些原理本身都是说得通的。
So the principles all make sense.
在动物实验中，你确实能看到这些现象。
You can see it happen in animal models.
你也能测量到这些神经元确实被激活了。
You can measure the fact that these neurons were activated.
但要真正深入下去，量化出哪些神经网络被激活、激活的程度，或者需要什么条件才能引发反应，这些还都需要进一步研究。
But how you truly dig down and quantify the networks being activated and the level of that activation or maybe what's required in order to see a response, that's something that still needs to be worked on.
舞蹈这个例子我很认同，你虽然没明说，但感官输入在这里起着至关重要的作用。
Dance makes sense to me because you didn't say these words, but sensory input is a huge impact here.
对吧？
Right?
比如本体感觉。
So proprioception.
在跳舞的时候，还有听觉。
In the case of dance, it is hearing.
你在感受。
You're feeling.
你可能还在感受对方的动作。
You're feeling the other person probably.
你也在感受地面的反馈。
You're feeling the ground.
你可不想踩到别人的脚。
You don't wanna step on toes.
这很有节奏感。
It is rhythmic.
这些其实都涉及大脑的不同区域，这么说应该没错吧。
Different these are all different parts of the brain, if that's a fair way to say it.
现在你还得用到记忆。
And now you also have memory.
这一步、那一步、再一步，对吧，还得加上即兴发挥。
It's this step and this step and this step, right, plus improvisation.
这四五个不同的脑区，一下子就能理解了。
All the four or five different areas immediately make sense.
当你想到像匹克球这样的运动，对。
When you think about something like, let's just say, pickleball Mhmm.
你刚才提到过。
You said earlier.
如果你是个熟练的匹克球选手，打匹克球就没那么费脑筋了，我猜是这样。
If you are a skilled pickleball player, then the act of playing pickleball is not as cognitively demanding, I'm assuming Yeah.
不像你刚打的第一周那样。
As it was the first week you played.
对。
Mhmm.
是吧？
Right?
不过还是有一些的，因为你得根据实际环境做出反应，比如改变方向。
Now there's still some because you're reacting to the actual environment, change of direction.
这叫本体感觉。
This is proprioception.
我现在在空间里的哪个位置？
Where am I at in space?
我该打什么球？
What shot am I gonna make?
现在比分是多少？
What's the score?
所有这些因素都算在内。
All those things.
对吧？
Right?
但比起上次来，难度没那么高了，因为像手该放在哪儿、怎么挥拍这些动作，现在已经变成下意识的了。
But it's not as high as it used to be the last time because parts of that experience now of where to put your hands, how to swing your technique have been now pushed to we'll just call it subconscious.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
这就是学习的过程。
This is learning.
没错。
Mhmm.
所以我体育方面越来越好了。
So I get better better at sports.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
对我来说，认知负担这一块有点不一样。
Where the cognitive demand piece to me sits a little bit differently.
我也不确定自己想得对不对，因为就我日常的工作体验来说，跳舞确实说得通，毕竟涉及那么多感官信息。
I again, I don't know if I'm actually thinking about this correctly because if I think about a day to day work experience for me, the dance thing makes sense because of all those different sensory inputs.
说到认知负担，我想到的是某种难度高的脑力任务。
When I think cognitive demand, I'm thinking some sort of difficult mental task.
对。
Mhmm.
我不会把身体动作算作认知负担。
I'm not thinking like a physical body movement.
对吧？
Right?
所以我想到，读一篇科学论文，对我来说是挺耗费脑力的事。
So I'm thinking if I'm reading a scientific paper, that to me feels like a high cognitive demanding task.
但实际上，我现在刷手机就能很快看完。
But in reality, I can do that scrolling my phone, like, pretty quickly.
说句不怕自夸的话，我现在看一篇论文，花不了多久就能抓住重点，判断它靠不靠谱。
Hubris aside here, like, does not take me long to scroll through a paper anymore and get the gist of do I buy it?
是靠谱，还是不靠谱？
Do I not buy it?
垃圾论文。
Shoddy paper.
但对其他人，比如我当研究生那会儿，一整天都在那儿
Or other folks, I certainly know, say, myself as a graduate student, like, the whole day
是的。
Yeah.
非得一个字一个字读完，才能抓住重点，对吧？
Reading every word, right, to get the gist of it.
这难道本来就是个特别费脑的活儿？
Is it just something that is a generally hard task?
我如果在写东西，是不是不管什么时候都特别耗神？
If I'm doing if I'm writing, is that always gonna be a high cognitive demand?
我发个邮件，是不是就一定很轻松？
If I'm sending an email, is that always gonna be low?
对啊。
Mhmm.
就说我自己家的事吧，我老婆告诉我孩子学校里的事，这反而是我一天中最费脑子的事，真的，你信不信？
I know, for example, just speaking from my relationship, if my wife gives me information about something I hang with the kids in school, that's the highest cognitive demanding effort I will have in my whole damn, like, wait.
孩子叫啥来着？
Who what's the kid's name again?
我得立马停下所有事，全神贯注，不然一转眼就全忘了。
Like, I just have like, I'm I have to drop everything and complete pay attention or else it goes to zero.
是的
Yeah.
第二天她会提醒我，可我完全不记得了。
The next day, she'll remind me, and I have zero recollection.
如果她听到这个，估计得气炸了。
She's probably if she listens to this, she's gonna die in anger.
你听好了。
Listen.
因为她会说，对啊。
Because she's like, yeah.
这真让人抓狂。
It's infuriating.
顺便说一句，她也这样。
She does the same, by the way.
所以回到刚才的问题，这真的是任务本身的问题吗？
So to the point of saying, like, is it the task itself?
是因为我在做不同的事，所以新鲜感才起作用吗？
Is it novelty as long as I'm doing something different?
我们怎么才能知道什么是有效的刺激？或者至少怎么才能更接近猜对它？
Where where do we know that something is cog or where where can we get closer to guessing?
新鲜感确实很重要，大概是因为它能吸引注意力和集中精神。
So novelty plays a big role, and it's probably because novelty drives attention and focus.
如果你要对某个刺激做出反应，就必须把注意力资源集中到它上面。
And if you're actually going to respond to a stimulus, you need to direct attentional resources to it.
所以难度也很关键。
So then difficulty becomes important as well.
任务得有挑战性，你得全神贯注，不管做什么都一样。
So it should be challenging, and you should be giving it your full attention and focus, whatever it is.
这些大概就是大脑产生适应变化的一些前提条件。
And then those are probably some of the prerequisites in order to see some kind of adaptation in the brain.
你主观上觉得任务难不难，虽然我对主观感受在很多事上都很认同，但这次行不通。
How you subjectively feel about a task being difficult, although I'm a big fan of the subjective for a lot of things, in this, case, it it doesn't really work.
真的吗？
Really?
这可能跟我们现在使用大脑的方式有关，就像你之前提到的，听你妻子聊孩子的事。
And it's probably because of the way that we use our brains nowaday nowadays, what you mentioned earlier, listening to to your wife talk about something to do with the kids.
你说过，只有当你真正集中注意力时，才能真正把这些内容内化。
And you said the only re the only way that you can actually internalize it if you like if you give you your attention.
这说明你实际上是在同时处理多件事。
So what that tells me is what you're what you're doing is multitasking.
但你根本不是在同时处理多件事。
And you're not actually multitasking.
你是在不断切换任务。
What you're doing is task switching.
你一边想专注眼前这件事，一边又想留意她说话的内容。
So you're trying to pay attention to this thing in front of you right here, and then you're trying to pay attention to her.
每次切换都会付出代价，因为你得重新集中注意力。
And there's a cost every time you do that because you have to refocus.
结果就是，你哪样都没做好，要么就是三样事情都搞得一团糟。
And what happens is if it is essentially, you're not doing either or you're doing both or three things very, very poorly.
我觉得我可能是世界上任务切换代价最高的人了。
I think I set the world record for highest task switching cost ever.
每当我得这么频繁切换任务，我就得真的坐下来缓一缓。
If I have to task switch like that, like, it takes I have to literally sit down.
然后我得晃晃脑袋。
I'm like, shake my head.
我得跟自己说，行了。
I'm like, okay.
等一下。
Hold on.
给我一点时间。
Give me a minute.
好了。
Okay.
什么？
What?
就是会有延迟。
Like, it takes the the lag.
就像玩个卡顿的游戏。
It's like a bad video game.
我换任务的时候，反应特别慢。
It's so long on me when I switch tasks.
我一整天都在拼命避免这种情况，因为对我而言，这简直太糟糕了。
I'm just like I I, like, I focus my whole day on not doing that because it is so catastrophic for me to have to do that.
是的。
Yeah.
我能把事情做完，但做完之后完全不记得自己干了什么。
I'll I'll I'll I can do the task, but I'll have no memory of
了。
it.
是的。
Yeah.
一旦没了，就再也找不回来了。
It'll be gone for forever.
我其实也差不多。
I'm actually very similar.
我特别不擅长同时处理多个任务，我老婆老拿这个开玩笑。
Like, I am a terrible task, which and, like, my wife always jokes, I'm a terrible multitasker.
最近，我就干脆认了。
And recently, you know, I've leaned into it.
人的大脑根本没法高效地在任务之间来回切换。
Like, the human brain cannot task switch like that efficiently.
根本没人能做到。
People just can't do it.
你可能因为工作不得不这么做，但事实上，像格洛丽亚·马克的研究就表明，频繁切换任务会带来很大压力。
You may have to be able to navigate that for for your job, but in reality, like, by Gloria Mark shows how, constant task switching is very stressful.
每次切换任务，不仅会浪费时间，而且一旦被打断，很可能要过很久才能回到原来的事情上。
And every time you switch a task, you have that that cost of time as well as the fact that if you're distracted from a task, it's maybe a long period of time before you ever return to it.
在这段你本该做正事却没做的时间里，心里总像压着一块石头——你知道事情还在那儿，可就是没去做。
And during that whole period of time while you're not doing the task that you actually want to be doing right now, there's this sort of underlying simmering stress because you know it's there, but you're not but you're not doing it.
所以我觉得，我们现在常说的多任务处理，或者说频繁切换任务——比如一会儿看邮件，一会儿写文档，一会儿刷社交媒体——
So I think a big part of this is that multitasking, as we call it, or task switching, which is very common now, email to this document you're writing to social media.
我有个朋友叫詹姆斯·休伊特，他管这叫‘认知的中档模式’，你可以想象一下那种状态。
It's what, a friend of mine, James Hewitt, calls the cognitive middle gear, and you kind of imagine it.
我老爱用运动来打比方，但这就像是你整天都卡在临界强度上。
I so it I'll I'll I'll keep going over to to my terrible exercise analogies, but it's kind of like spending all your time at threshold.
这种状态特别耗体力，但你从中获得的收益，根本配不上它消耗掉的精力。
It's incredibly, like, physically tiring, but the adaptation you get from it is kind of disproportionate to how much it drains you.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yep.
没错。
Yep.
你刚才做的最后几组，其实没什么变化，
This is the last couple of sets that you did where you got nothing different
嗯。
Uh-huh.
但你却感到特别疲惫。
But you got high fatigue.
是的。
Yes.
完全正确。
Exactly.
你一整天都在用大脑这样折腾。
And you're doing that with your brain all day.
是的
Yeah.
所以你真正该做的是尽量把这种状态分段安排。
So what you really want to do is to try and periodize that as much as you can.
对吧？
Right?
你得有高强度专注、高强度认知输出的时段，这就是深度工作，是你真正要完成重要任务的时候。
So you have your periods of intense focus, intense cognitive performance, and that's your deep work, the time when you really need to get stuff done.
其余时间，你就做那种中等强度的脑力活动，比如处理一些基础事务。
And then the rest of the time, you're sort of you're you're doing your sort of, like, your your zone two brain work.
比如回邮件，或者做些简单的工作。
And that can be answering emails, like some of the basic stuff.
一旦你同时堆太多这类事情，就会不知不觉回到中等负荷的状态。
As soon as you start to do, you know, a ton of those things at the same time, you start to to sort of head back into middle gear.
但你得像很多人训练时那样，把大脑的使用方式尽量两极化。
But that's you kind of have to think about almost polarizing your your brain use just like a lot of people might polarize their training.
你们实验室主要做新生儿方面的研究。
Your lab does mostly neonatal stuff.
是的。
Yes.
对吧？
Right?
所以你实际的科研时间主要都花在年幼的大脑发育上。
So your actual scientific time is mostly spent in young developing brain.
没错。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
你确实做过贯穿整个生命周期的研究。
You've clearly done work across the entire lifespan.
随着年龄增长，这种任务切换的消耗会增加吗？
Does that task switching energy increase as you get older?
因为我小时候，切换任务根本不是事儿，一下就转过来了。
Because I feel like when I was a kid, I could task switch immediately.
当研究生的时候，我根本不记得这有什么困难。
I don't actually have a recollection of it being a problem as like a grad student.
是的。
Yeah.
但现在我简直惊了，天哪。
But now I'm like, oh my gosh.
纯粹是消耗。
Just detriment.
我之所以这么问，是因为我在想，如果真是这样，会不会正是这个原因，让人觉得认知能力下降了、整天没精神、脑子发懵——其实不是脑子坏了，只是耗能变高了，自己都没意识到。
And I'm why I'm asking that is I'm wondering, if that is the case, could that be explaining some part of people feeling like they have cognitive decline, feeling like their energy is lower throughout the day, feeling like their brain fog is hitting now, when in reality, they're just burning more gas and they had no idea.
对。
Yeah.
尤其是年轻的时候，大脑跟环境的互动方式，其实正是我们成年后该有的状态，只是我们现在做不到罢了。
Particularly early on in life, I think the brain interacts with the environment in the way that we should be doing as adults and we're not doing.
你看看小孩学走路的时候，眼里就只有这件事。
If you watch a kid learning how to walk, that is all they're focused on.
对吧？
Right?
在人生的头三十年里，大脑其实一直在不断适应和成熟。
And essentially, for the first thirty years of life, the brain is continuing to adapt and mature.
之后它依然能对刺激做出反应，但要让大脑完全适应环境，差不多得花上我们半辈子的时间。
And it can still respond to stimuli after that, but it takes almost half our lifetime for the brain to fit to, you know, finish adapting to its environment.
这种适应靠的是学习各种技能——社交、语言、运动能力等等。
And that adaptation is driven by learning these skills, social interaction, language, motor skills.
但尤其在早期，大脑就只专注于这些事。
But particularly early on, that's all the brain is is focused on doing.
对吧？
Right?
接下来这十分钟，我就想着怎么站起来，然后就去睡一觉。
I'm gonna spend this next ten minutes trying to stand up, and then I'm take a nap.
你知道吗，我的大脑会开始梳理那段时期接收到的所有信息
And, you know, you know, my brain is gonna start to figure out all the inputs that it received during that period
我也有过这样的日子。
of I've had some days like that.
没错。
No doubt.
现在也是这样吗？
You know, even now?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
到了青春期，我觉得你说得对。
And so then as you get into the teenage years, I think that you're right.
孩子似乎能不断在不同事情之间切换，这说明他们能迅速集中注意力。
Kids seem to be able to to jump back and forth continuously, and that that probably is they are better at focusing their attention very quickly.
我觉得这 partly 是因为，我们长大后要应付的事情太多了
And I think that's partly because all the other things that we have to deal with when we're older
对的
Mhmm.
而这些事情小时候都没有
Aren't in place.
所以我们年纪大了，以为自己脑子变差了，其实很多时候是因为环境变了，再加上我们没像以前那样专注地投入任务，自然就没能充分发挥效果
So a lot of what happens as we get older and we think that our cognitive function is diminishing is actually just, a product of of the environment as well as the fact that we're not focusing on tasks in the way that we should in order to to maximize the benefit from them.
所以到了四十多岁想学新技能，时间本来就少得多
So when you're trying to learn a new skill in your forties, you obviously have less time to do it.
还得操心孩子
You have kids to worry about.
睡眠也肯定不好
You probably didn't sleep very well.
工作上的压力，还有各种琐事，都让人分心
You know, you're stressed about your job and all these other things.
然后你就说，唉，我再也学不会语言了，不像小时候那样。
And then you say, oh, I just can't learn a language like I could when I was a kid.
但小时候你根本没什么别的事可做。
But when when you're a kid, you have nothing else to do.
是啊。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
你每周上三次法语课，整节课就专心学法语。
You have your French class three times a week, and all you're doing in that class is learning French.
不管你是真喜欢还是当时有没有认真听讲。
And you're dedicating I mean, whether or not you enjoy it or you actually paid attention at the time.
对吧？
Right?
但你小时候有大块专注的时间练技能，而作为成年人学法语时，
But you have these focused periods to just work on learning the skill, whereas you're learning French as an adult.
你想着，那就挤出十分钟玩会儿多邻国吧，堵车的时候顺便学学，结果还纳闷儿为啥学得没小时候好。
It's like, well, I'll do ten minutes of Duolingo while I'm sat in traffic, and then you wonder why you're not learning French as well as you could when you were younger.
对。
Right.
有些方法确实没错。
And some of the right.
这些调整方式随着时间会慢慢失效，但并不是说成年人的大脑学不会。
Some of these adaptations do slow over time, but it's not that the adult brain can't do it.
而是我们根本没再像小时候那样，去践行那些真正有效的学习方法。
It's that we're not actually applying the principles that we did when we were younger in order to learn these skills.
本期节目由LMNT赞助。
Today's episode is sponsored by LMNT.
LMNT是一种电解质饮品，钠、钾、镁的比例刚刚好，而且不含糖。
LMNT is an electrolyte drink mix that has an ideal electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, but no sugar.
补水对身体和大脑的表现都至关重要。
Hydration is critical to performance, both physical and mental performance.
无数研究表明，哪怕只是轻微脱水，比如身体水分减少1%，也会导致体能和认知表现下降。
Countless studies have shown that even a slight degree of dehydration, even as small as one percent, can lead to decreases in physical output and mental performance.
我们还知道，电解质对维持良好水分平衡至关重要，这一点我早就反复强调过了。
We also know that electrolytes are critical to proper hydration, which I've been harping on for years.
但光靠喝水，是做不到真正有效补水的。
But you can't do that, proper hydration, by only drinking water.
你必须摄入适量且比例恰当的电解质，这正是我如此推崇LMNT的原因。
You need to get the right amount of electrolytes in the right ratios, and that's why I'm a huge fan of LMNT.
事实上，很多人应该还记得，差不多五年前，我就在我的YouTube系列视频里介绍过LMNT。
In fact, many of you will probably remember that I featured LMNT in my YouTube series on optimizing hydration nearly five years ago.
我当时推荐LMNT，是因为它的配方——1000毫克钠、200毫克钾、60毫克镁——在市场上独一无二，而且有坚实的科学依据。
I featured LMNT in these videos because their blend of a thousand milligrams of sodium, two hundred milligrams potassium, and sixty milligrams of magnesium really is unique and different than any other electrolyte on the market and it has great scientific support.
我平时一直用Element，尤其是大量出汗的时候，也经常把它纳入我客户的优化方案中。
I use Element constantly, particularly when I'm sweating a lot and I routinely make it a part of my clients' optimization programs.
如果你想试试LMNT，可以去drinklmnt.com/perform，购买任何一款LMNT饮品时，就能免费获得一份试用装。
If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinklmnt.com/perform to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix.
再说一次，网址是 drinklmnt.com/perform，去那里可以领取免费样品包。
Again, that's drinklmnt.com/perform to claim a free sample pack.
好的。
Okay.
所以我们要尽量一次只专注于一项任务，并且在从一项任务切换到下一项时，给自己留点缓冲时间，别把期望定得太高。
So making sure that we are trying to focus on singular tasks at a time and having potentially a little bit of a buffer when we switch from one to the next in terms of expectations.
对。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
我们不会那么快进入下一个话题。
We're not gonna be on the next one quickly.
所以如果我们回到那个四十岁的案例，再次聚焦这个人物画像，他会说，好吧。
So if we go to our our 40 year old and we're we're back on this avatar, he's saying, okay.
我只是想稍微提升一下我的大脑功能。
I just kinda want to enhance my brain function there.
刚才我们偏题了，跑得有点远。
We get we got I drug us off track there pretty quick.
那我们再回到刚才的话题，你有什么建议吗？他可以试试哪些方法？
So kinda coming back to that, what would be, again, your your recommendations of things to think about, stuff that he could generally try?
你提到学一门新语言，比如多邻国。
You mentioned learning a new language, Duolingo.
还有没有其他专门训练大脑的方法？
Are there any other specific brain training things?
这些方法真的有效吗？
Do those things work?
要不我们先从这个问题说起。
I guess we'll even start there.
饮食、营养补充剂、促智药这些方面。
Nutrition, supplementation, nootropics.
在这方面我们能做些什么？
Like, what are things we can do in that?
我再说一遍，我没生病。
Again, I'm not diseased.
我也没觉得哪里疼。
I'm not hurting.
这个我们待会儿再说。
We'll get to that later.
我现在感觉挺好的。
Just feeling pretty good.
是的。
Yeah.
我该怎么做才能让脑部扫描结果更好？
What can I do to make my brain scans?
我认为目前市面上大多数脑力训练方法，还不足以让我们看到明显的改善。
I think most brain training as it currently exists is probably not enough for us to see significant file transfer.
在那个人身上。
In that person.
在那个特定的虚拟形象里。
In in that per in that particular avatar.
我觉得我们现在正开始看到一场变革，尤其是在增强现实领域，这种情况可能会开始改变。
I think we're now starting to see a revolution in VR, particularly in AR, where that might start to change.
你需要在非常复杂的环境中导航并解决问题。
And you have very complex environments that you have to navigate and problem solve within.
这些正是大脑所擅长的，而它们通过视觉传递，视觉是驱动神经组织的主要刺激之一，随之带来一系列后续影响。
And these are some of the things that the brain thrives on, and they're delivered via the eyes, which is one of the, you know, the primary stimuli that that drives, you know, know, neural organization, and then, you you know, all the downstream consequences of that.
相比在电脑屏幕上做拼图，虚拟现实环境中丰富而深入的视听刺激，更接近我们平时发展复杂技能和促进大脑发育的方式。
So you're you know, compared to looking at puzzles on a computer screen, you know, having some in-depth, you know, audio and visual stimulus in a virtual reality environment is much more similar to the way that we norm that we normally, develop complex skills, and and, you know, drive brain development.
所以我觉得未来这类应用会越来越多。
So I think we're gonna see more and more of that coming online.
即使是普通成年人，还有儿童和老年人，目前的视频游戏技术，比如在三维复杂环境中，VR方面的研究还比较有限。
Even in, you know, regular adults and actually in kids and and older adults, the current technology for, say, video games, when in, say, a three d, a complex three d environment, it hasn't necessarily there's been a a bit in VR so far research.
我认为在未来几年，随着越来越多设备的推出，这一领域将迎来爆发式增长。
I think that's gonna really explode over the next few years with, like, all the devices that are now available.
但要说研究最多的游戏，我觉得应该是《超级马里奥3D世界》。
But even, like, I think the the game that has the most research is Super Mario World three d.
玩了几周《超级马里奥3D世界》的人，相比玩俄罗斯方块或接龙的人，在一些标准认知能力测试中进步更明显。
And people who play Super Mario World three d for a few weeks compared to something like Tetris or Solitaire see greater improvements in certain standardized cognitive function tests.
就连这种全新的复杂世界，也需要大量的空间定位和解谜能力。
So even that kind of new complex world, your a lot of orientation, puzzle solving.
需要高度投入，高度专注。
High effort, high focus.
确实如此。
Yeah.
如果你不专心，分分钟就会挂掉。
And, like, you're gonna die if you're not actually paying attention.
没错。
Yeah.
俄罗斯方块可能也差不多，但接龙就完全不是这么回事了。
Whereas and probably the same in Tetris, but but not in Solitaire.
而且，随着复杂度提升，认知功能的改善也会更明显。
And, actually, with increasing complexity, you see increasing improvements in cognitive function.
所以，提供这种复杂、多维度、多感官的体验，我们已经有了一些证据表明，它能提升健康成年人的认知能力，未来几年这种效果只会越来越明显。
So providing these complex, you know, multidimensional and multisensory inputs, I think we already have some evidence that that can improve cognitive function in healthy adults, and I think we'll only see see more of that in the in the next few years.
你这等于给所有五十岁的人开了张许可证，让他们可以对父母说：‘我早就跟你说过吧。’
You just gave every 50 year old permission to tell their parents, I told you so.
我早就说电子游戏对我没坏处。
I told you the video games were okay for me.
这个说法准确吗？
Fair characterization or no.
如果认知功能偏低，不管是年轻人还是老年人，像拼图、脑力训练、BrainHQ这类东西，大概是最靠谱的选择。
If cognitive function is low, either maybe young or older aging, something like a puzzle, brain training, brain HQ is probably the Yeah.
这是研究得最多的。
The more most studied one.
有很多随机对照试验可能都能提供帮助。
Many randomized controlled trials potentially can help.
但如果你本身认知能力已经正常甚至偏高，再做这些就不足以挑战大脑了。
However, if you are kinda normal to above going past that, that's just not cognitively demanding.
对。
Yeah.
很可能确实如此。
Most likely not.
对吧？
Right?
所以你得转向那些更能让你投入、或者能提升心率的情境。
So now you have to get into situations where, again, you care more or there's a heart rate elevation.
需要一些其他生理上的挑战，才能提供足够的刺激，促使身体产生适应。
There's some other functional physiological demand that provides enough of a stimuli to cause adaptation.
像这样的电子游戏，我肯定还有很多别的例子，但意思你应该明白了。
So video games of that I'm sure there are plenty of other ones, but you get the concept.
对吧？
Right?
这些条件你之前提到的，一个都不能少。
It has to be all those things you laid out.
对。
Mhmm.
像跳舞这样的活动，其实也符合这个要求。
This is where something like a dance would also then fit in.
对吧？
Right?
学习新技能，比如攀岩或者冲浪，这些活动能让你接触多变的环境和温度，特别合适。
Learning a new skill, presumably rock climbing or surfing where your environmental exposures and temperature changes are great activities.
格斗类运动当然更是绝佳的选择。
Combat sports are, of course, are, like, fantastic for this.
就是别老挨脑袋上一拳。
Just don't get punched in the head too much.
别太多就行。
Too much.
是的。
Yeah.
那从营养和补充剂的角度呢？
What about from a nutrition side, supplementation side?
有没有什么该做的，或者反过来，有什么是绝对要避免的？
Is there anything you can do or on the inverse of that, is there anything that you just have to avoid?
对于健康普通人来说，有没有哪些特定的营养素或饮食方式特别有害？
Are there are there particular nutrients or styles of eating that are really bad for the the normal non diseased person?
这方面我们到底知道多少？
Or or what do we know about that side?
除了你之前提到的长期能量过剩这个问题之外。
Outside of energy toxicity, which you talked about long term was a problem.
对。
Yeah.
实际上，答案是否定的。
So in reality, the answer is no.
其实没什么是必须避免的。
There's nothing that anybody has to avoid.
有一些基于观察性流行病学的证据表明，那些高度精制、超加工食品占比很高的饮食可能不太理想——不过这个分类本身有问题，因为它把蛋白粉也包括进去了，而我反而会建议大家吃蛋白粉，但同时它也把奶油夹心蛋糕算进去了。
There's some reasonable observational epidemiological evidence to say, you know, highly refined ultra pro you know, diets high in ultra processed foods, which that classification is problematic because it includes protein powder, which I would, happily recommend to people, but also Twinkies.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得吧，
I don't think look.
我们可以较真，但不管怎么说，一种高含量[某种成分]的饮食，大概率没什么好处。
We can be pedantic about this, but a diet high in, you fill in the blank here Yeah.
估计确实不太好。
Probably not good.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
我不确定我们有没有直接的机制研究来回答这个问题，但不用想得太远，就能想到还有很多别的原因
I don't know if we have the direct mechanistic research on that for this question, but we don't have to stretch our imaginations far to say there's so many other reasons
对
Mhmm.
你确实应该避开这类饮食
Why you should avoid that.
是的
Yeah.
比如说
Like, just
明白
okay.
没错
Yeah.
除了这一点之外
So outside of that
对。
Yeah.
然后，很多后续的连锁反应都是由营养缺乏或能量过剩驱动的。
And then that's a lot of the downstream effects of that are driven either by nutrient deficiencies or energy toxicity.
对吧？
Right?
所以，是的。
So Yeah.
这些是我们之前已经讨论过的内容。
Things that we've things that we've already covered.
关于补充剂，关键得看你具体想达到什么目的，以及打算什么时候去实现。
In terms of supplementation, it then probably becomes a case of what is it that you're trying to achieve and when are you trying to achieve it.
所以我觉得，在……
So I think in,
你
you
你知道吗，健康人群和运动员在补充肌酸后，认知功能各方面都有不少令人惊喜的提升。
know, healthy individuals, in athletes, we see some interesting improvements in in broad cognitive function with, say, creatine supplementation Mhmm.
尤其是记忆力方面。
Particularly in in aspects of memory.
所以这一直是我们的首选方案。
So that's that's something that's always high on the list.
其他我觉得可能值得考虑的补充剂，其实也都跟营养状况脱不开关系。
Everything else that I think would would go on the definitely take could also be related to the nutritional piece.
比如镁水平、维生素D，还有其他那些类似的营养素。
So magnesium status, vitamin D, all those other kinds of things.
当你在考虑补充剂或促智药的时候，往往会出现一种权衡——你提升了一项功能，却可能牺牲了另一项。
When you're then thinking about, say, supplements or nootropics, often what you see is that there's a trade off, that you enhance one function at the the price of another.
这没问题，但你得清楚自己在做选择。
And that's fine, but that has to be a choice.
你不能随便吃点什么就指望样样都变强，大脑根本不是这么运作的。
You you can't just take these things and think, I'm gonna be better at everything because the the brain doesn't work like that.
一般来说，生理机制可不是这么运作的。
Well, nothing in physiology works like that, generally.
没有白拿的好处。
No free passes.
没有白拿的好处。
No free passes.
生物学里没有免费的午餐。
No biological free lunch.
所以最终还得看你具体想达成什么目标。
So then it's just gonna depend on on what you're trying to achieve.
如果你长期有睡眠或压力方面的问题，像茶氨酸、南非醉茄、KSM-66这些成分就挺值得关注的。
So if you've, you know, had issues with sleep or stress long term, then there are interesting things like theanine, ashwagandha, KSM sixty six.
在这些情况下，它们似乎确实能缓解压力，同时提升认知表现。
They seem to, you know, improve stress and also cognitive function in those settings.
如果你是想在某项运动中即时发挥出最佳状态，我可以用一级方程式赛车举个例子？
If you're thinking about trying to perform in the moment in a given sport, so I can I can use Formula One as an example?
我们合作过几位车手，他们因为工程师和队友的竞争关系，特别关注一个很容易看到的指标——比赛开始时电视上会直接显示的反应时间。
We've worked with multiple drivers who, because of their engineers and the teammate, their competing against one of the one of the metrics that you can easily see, they show it on the on on the TV right at the beginning of the race is reaction time.
那么，这位车手起步有多快？
So how quickly did this driver get off the line?
当你想提升、降低或改善反应速度、缩短反应时间时，首先想到的补充剂就是咖啡因。
When you try and increase that or try and decrease or improve reactance speed, decrease reaction time, then there are some you know, the the the supplement that would first come to mind is caffeine.
是的。
Yep.
对吧？
Right?
毫无疑问。
No doubt.
而且确实有效。
And it works.
对吧？
Right?
我们知道咖啡因能提升心理运动警觉性，加快反应速度。
We know that caffeine improves psychomotor vigilance and improves reaction time.
但我们也知道，剂量过高时，咖啡因反而会降低复杂任务的协调能力，对某些认知功能有负面影响。
However, we also know that at higher doses, caffeine decreases, complex complex scalability, right, and decreases certain aspects of
选择性注意功能。
euglectic function.
想象一下，你开着车以每小时两百英里的速度飞驰，却摄入了整整一千毫克的咖啡因，那会是什么情景。
Imagine any scenario in which you would you would want to be driving 200 miles an hour on a thousand milligrams of caffeine.
是的。
Yeah.
绝对不行。
Absolutely not.
这种做法确实有人试过，起步时反应确实快，但当你以每小时两百或一百五十英里的速度冲进第一个弯道，周围还围着九十多辆车时，你根本控制不住，肯定会撞上去。
And so this and but it it's it's been done or it's been tried, and you'll see a great reaction time off a line, and then you're trying to navigate the first corner at 200 miles an hour or a 150 miles an hour with 90 other cars around you, and you'll plow into the first corner.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这就引出了一个概念：针对不同的认知任务，找到合适的唤醒水平。
So this then comes into the idea of getting into the right window of arousal for some given cognitive task.
我们可以通过补充剂来实现这一点，也可以用呼吸技巧或运动来调节。
And we can use supplements to do that, but we can also use, breathing techniques, exercise to kind of modulate some of that.
有些补充剂，具体用哪种，要看任务本身，有时候咖啡因可能是最合适的选择。
So there are some supplements and, you know, depending on the task, maybe caffeine is the the right one.
对于大多数日常喝咖啡的人来说，你其实只是在弥补因缺乏咖啡因造成的状态下滑，而不是真正提升表现，这也没问题。
For most people who who are rate habitual caffeine users, you're generally just reversing the deficit caused by a caffeine deficiency at the moment rather than enhancing function, which is fine.
就像
Like,
我们进来的之前刚喝过咖啡。
we just had coffees before we came in here.
对吧？
Right?
但再往后，具体怎么调整，完全要看任务是什么，而这主要跟唤醒程度有关。
But then beyond that, it's gonna really depend on on the task, and that's largely gonna be related to arousal.
你正在做的这个任务，最适合的唤醒水平是多少？每个任务所需的理想唤醒水平可能都不一样。
What level of arousal is gonna be ideal for the task that you're trying to perform, and each task is probably gonna a different ideal level of arousal.
你说得很有意思，因为我们接触的运动员中，咖啡因的使用情况差异很大。
It's really interesting you say that because with all the athletes we work with, there is a spectrum of caffeine use.
确实如此。
Uh-huh.
不仅人与人之间不一样，不同运动项目之间也有明显区别。
Not only within the person to person that happens, but I mean, say categorically between sports.
比如我们的NFL球员，通常摄入的咖啡因剂量都比较高。
If you take, for example, our NFL players, they generally are on a pretty high dose of caffeine.
虽然这是一项认知型运动，但我们的高尔夫球手呢？
It's a cognitive sport, but our golfers?
完全不用。
Absolutely not.
真的吗？
Oh, yeah?
比如早上喝一杯，就这样，再没了。
Like, you know, maybe a cup in the morning or something like that, and that that's it.
可能就五十毫克左右，稍微提提神而已，他们根本不能靠太多咖啡因来保持神经控制。
Maybe 50 Migs or something like that, like some little little top off, but they don't wanna have they can't have that kind of neural control on very much caffeine
是的。
Yeah.
一点都不能多。
At all.
很多人是完全不碰咖啡因的。
Many of them are just no caffeine, period.
对吧？
Right?
我们一些格斗类项目的运动员情况比较复杂，要看他们具体是哪种选手。
Some of our fighting sports, they can be a little bit of a mix depending on what kind of a fighter they are.
但他们的咖啡因摄入量差异可以很大。
But they can be on all kinds of different areas of this.
我个人其实跟高尔夫圈的人不太一样。
I know personally, I'm kind of unlike the golf world.
我一般就喜欢喝一杯浓缩咖啡。
I generally like, like, one shot of espresso.
是的。
Yeah.
就这一杯，够我整天慢慢晃悠了。
Like, that that is, like, good for the day just, like, kinda moldering around a little bit.
要是下午喝，我就选无咖啡因的，或者四分之一咖啡因的，那样才刚好。
If I have afternoon, I want, like, decaf or quarter calf, then I'm like, that's, perfect for me.
我有些朋友正好相反。
I have other friends who are, like, the opposite.
对吧？
Right?
他们一天能喝六杯、八杯，甚至十杯。我试过十几种非咖啡因的神经增强剂，结果一开口就卡壳，一个字都说不出来。
It's just, like, you know, six, eight, ten servings a day, and they're going, if I use almost any form of nootropic, and I've probably tried a dozen outside of caffeine and nicotine, I can't get a word out.
是的。
Yeah.
我的思维能力直接归零。
My cognitive function goes to zero.
哪怕只吃十分之一的量，我也完全没法用。
Like, if if I do, like, a tenth of a serving, like, I just I just can't use it at all.
不过，我们用过Alpha GPC之类物质的客户里，有百分之九十都反馈效果不错。
But I'd say ninety percent of the people we've coached with Alpha GPC or things like that have a positive experience.
所以，伍德医生，这是为什么？
So, doctor Wood, why?
为什么我一用就脑子转不动？
Why can't I not think straight?
我只要吃哪怕半剂量的Alpha GPC，说每一个字都得先想清楚。
I mean, I I have to think about every word that comes out of my mouth if I do the smallest half dose of Alpha GPC.
这确实是个好问题，说实话，我不知道。
That's a really great question, and the answer is I don't know.
这到底是怎么回事
What the
我认识的很多人真的很喜欢这个。
The a lot of people I know really like that.
顺便说一句，我可是想知道这个问题整整十年了。
Wanting to know this for, like, a decade, by the way.
我没法回答这个问题，是因为关于Alpha GPC的高质量研究实在太少了。
The the reason why I can't answer that question is because there isn't that much re like, high quality research on Alpha GPC.
关于CDP胆碱或者胞磷胆碱，倒是有很多研究。
There's quite a lot on CDP choline or Citicoline.
这是另一种胆碱形式，人们常说Alpha GPC更容易进入大脑，更容易转化成乙酰胆碱，但真正靠谱的研究真的不多。
So another another form of choline, which, you know, people say that Alpha GPC is more likely to get into the brain, more likely to be turned into acetylcholine, but there isn't that much really good quality research.
所以当我谈到胆碱补充时，我总是会回到乙酰胆碱这个点上，因为——
So when I talk about choline supplementation, I'll always fall back on acetylcholine because No.
我想亲自看看相关研究。
I wanna read it.
这个方面研究得更清楚多了。
It's it's much better understood.
所以我没法回答你这个问题，是因为我觉得根本没人认真读过相关研究。
So the reason why I I can't answer your question is because I I don't think anybody's read it to that.
任何跟我说Alpha GPC没用的人，都是疯了。
I anyone that tells me things like Alpha GPC don't work, you make you're out of your mind.
你疯了，因为我只要吃四分之一剂量，思维就立刻清晰了。
You're out of your mind because if I take a quarter of dose, I can't think Yeah.
清清楚楚。
Straight.
它确实有效。
So it absolutely works.
我想这得看你的……其实要看。
I guess it depends on your Well, depends
对。
what yeah.
所谓‘有效’到底是什么意思。
What it means by working.
你到底是怎么定义‘有效’的。
How you're defining sort of work.
对。
Yeah.
这些物质有没有什么明确的优点和缺点？
Are there any categorical pros, cons to the things?
你刚才提到一个例子，比如咖啡因。
So you mentioned one earlier, an example of caffeine.
你可能反应更快了，但要是刺激过头，反而会降低专注力。
You might get enhanced reaction time, but perhaps you have a decrease in focus or attention if it's overstimulation.
除了Alpha GPC，还有没有其他类似的普遍现象？比如你得到更多某方面的好处，但另一方面就牺牲了？
Are there any other general swings like with Alpha GPC or any other ones like we just generally, if you get more I don't know.
这种权衡真的存在吗？
Does it even work like that?
如果你更专注了，那会不会影响你的创造力？
If you get more focused, does that then take away creativity?
对。
Mhmm.
或者还有没有其他类似的明显权衡？
Or are there any other kinda, like, big switches that happen like that?
据我所知，关于这些不同方面的权衡，研究还很少。
There's been, as far as I know, a lot less research on those different, on those different trade offs.
过去倒是有一些关于吡拉西坦类物质的研究，
There's there was a little bit, historically on some of the the Racitams
是的。
Yep.
结果也显示了类似的情况。
And and and showed something similar.
对吧？
Right?
你可能在某些方面，比如执行功能或记忆力上有所提升，但与此同时，语言流畅性或其他认知功能却出现了下降。
You might have an improvement in in some aspects of, executive function or memory, but then, you know, verbal fluency or some other aspects of cognitive function decreased in response.
兴奋剂总体上确实存在我们之前提到的、和咖啡因类似的权衡效应。
The the stimulants broadly have do seem to have that that trade off that we mentioned with caffeine.
最近有一项研究把咖啡因和哌甲酯以及其他学生常使用的兴奋剂做了对比，确实如此。
So there's a recent study that came out and compared caffeine to, methylphenidate and some of the other stimulants that are regularly used by students and Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
当你在学习时，或者像ADHD这类临床人群真正可能从中受益时，你通常会看到类似的现象。
You know, to you know, when they're studying or, you know, the clinical population like ADHD who actually, you know, might might benefit from them, and you tend to see something tend to see something similar.
你可能在某一方面的认知功能上有所改善，但尤其是某些执行功能方面，往往会下降。
So you you might improve on one aspect of cognitive function, but especially certain aspects of executive function seem to decrease.
有趣的是，这种现象在迷幻剂微剂量研究中也很常见。
What's interesting is that a lot of, you see this in the, say, the the psychedelic microdosing literature.
在大麻相关的研究里也能看到同样的情况。
You see it in the cannabis literature.
人们觉得自己更有创造力，或者认知能力提升了。
People think they're more creative or they think they have improved cognitive function.
但事实上，如果你客观测量的话，并没有。
But actually, if you measure it objectively, they don't.
这其实和一些关于咖啡因的研究结果很相似，
And it it actually parallels some of the caffeine research where
你简直让整个互联网炸了。
people You just set the whole Internet on fire.
抱歉啊。
It's just sorry.
所以通常的情况是，人们觉得自己状态更好了，咖啡因研究里也出现过类似情况。
And so what what often happens is people think they're functioning better, and this has happened in some caffeine studies as well.
他们觉得自己表现得更好了，但客观来看，其实表现更差了。
They think they're functioning better, but actually, objectively, they're functioning worse.
所以主观感受和客观表现又一次脱节了。
So there's this decoupling of the subjective and the objective again.
这些本身并没有什么不好。
And none of this is inherently bad.
关键是要清楚你当下真正想达成的是什么。
It's just knowing what it is you're trying to achieve in a given moment.
那到底是什么呢？
What what is that?
因为在睡眠研究里，你也能看到同样的情况。
Because you see the same thing in sleep literature.
如果让人睡眠不足，哪怕不是极端情况，比如每晚只睡六小时，认知功能通常会明显下降，虽然不总是如此，但很多时候，他们自己却感觉不到任何变化。
If you sleep deprive people, not even to extremes, six hours a night, things like that, you'll see routinely cognitive function decreases, like, massively with almost not always, but a lot of times, no subjective change.
对。
Yeah.
所以人们会觉得，我完全没问题。
So people think, I'm totally fine.
我真的一点问题都没有。
I'm totally fine.
我觉得自己完全没问题。
I'm totally fine.
可一做标准化测试，表现就一塌糊涂。
And then on a standardized test, they're hot garbage.
到底是什么原因让你觉得自己没事？是身体的急性自我保护机制在起作用吗？
Like, what what's actually happening that makes you feel like you're is it just the acute self preservation?
是不是有什么重要的事情在发生，让你觉得必须集中精力应对眼前，完全忽略现实世界？
Something must be going on here that is catastrophic or important, so we're gonna maintain, like, total short term focus and just disregard, like, the real world?
这背后到底发生了什么？
Like, what is happening here?
有意思的是，睡眠研究里经常看到相反的情况，比如艾伦·兰格的研究，他们让一群人睡足八小时，却告诉他们只睡了五小时。
It's funny because you often see the opposite in sleep literature, which is where, you know, like, Ellen Langer's work where they randomize people to sleep for eight hours, but they told them they slept for five hours.
对吧？
Right?
结果他们睡得明明很好，却觉得自己没睡好。
So they slept a perfect amount, but they thought I didn't sleep well.
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