乔丹·沙利文：提升运动表现与身体成分的营养策略

有一段时间，他们三人分别是全球体重级别最顶尖的三位拳手，这简直不可思议。

At one time, they were two, three, and four pound for pound best fighters in the world, and that's incredible.

世界上居然还有一个人比他们更强，这太惊人了。

That's there is one other human that is better than them at that sport, and that's incredible.

全球五大最顶尖的UFC拳手。

The five pound for pound best UFC fighters in the whole world.

你当时在指导其中三位。

You were coaching three of the of the five.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

这确实了不起，从你个人职业生涯来看很棒，但从科学角度去分析，也同样令人震撼。

And that's and it's incredible, yes, from like, okay, great for your career, but also from the science standpoint, right, to look at it.

因为理论上，这些选手都遵循着同样的训练原则。

Because in theory, yeah, these guys are all following the same principles.

我们用的营养补给都一样。

We're using the same fueling.

周期化的原则差不多，但我们会根据他们的训练安排做调整。

Periodization principles are similar, but they're we're changing for their training schedule.

这三个人的个性差异非常大。

Three very, very different humans.

正如你提到的，我觉得这是个特别好的例子。

And as you alluded to, I would use this as a great example.

其中一个人特别严格。

One of them, very, very strict.

他几乎百分之百遵守计划，每顿饭都按要求吃，所有事情都做得一丝不苟。

I'd say 99% compliant, followed his meal plan, did everything right.

说到周期化训练，他特别注意赛前碳水化合物的摄入。

When we're talking about periodizing, he made sure his pretraining carbs were good.

训练中的碳水补充他也做得非常好。

His intratraining carbs are good.

训练后的所有恢复措施，他都做得特别到位。

Whatever we did post workout was amazing.

补水、睡眠，样样不落。

Hydration, sleep, everything.

不管什么建议，他全都照做。

You name it, he did it.

第二个人大概只做到了前者的八成左右。

Next person was probably about eighty twenty of that.

整体来说还是不错的。

Mostly good.

偶尔吃点小零食。

Few snacks here and there.

睡眠质量稍微差了点。

Sleep would be a bit bad.

可能比该睡的时间晚了一点才休息。

Probably stayed out a bit late than what he should have.

然后其中一个人，根本不太配合。

And then one of them, really not that compliant.

真的不太

Really not that

配合。

compliant.

说得对。

Way to

没错。

say it.

是的。

Yeah.

这大概是最委婉的说法了。

That's probably the nicest way to put it.

但问题是，如果你只看表面表现，真会让人惊叹。

The thing is though is that when you look at that performance just on the surface, you're going, wow.

这三位可是全球五磅内最顶尖的拳手，不只是UFC，是全世界最顶尖的。

That's three of the five pound for pound best fighters, not even just UFC fighters, best fighters on the planet.

说到他们的表现，真的让人惊叹。

And when it came to their performance, it's like, wow.

他们发挥得简直完美。

They're performing at the absolute best.

但说到我负责的营养方面，我们大概有一个非常出色，一个差不多在平均水平，还有一个不太理想。

But when it comes to what I do with the nutrition, we've probably got one guy that's very, very good, one guy that's probably about here, and one guy that's not good.

作为他们的教练，你自然得根据情况灵活调整。

And then me as their practitioner, you obviously make allowances for that.

但我们从来不会让任何人赛前超重。

We'd always never ever miss weight with any of them.

但真正值得关注的，其实是那些比赛之外的因素，它们才是真正影响表现的关键。

But what you tend to see then, and this is probably a very interesting conversation we get into, it's everything else that happens outside of that and what makes up their performance.

其中一个很重要的因素，就是伤病率。

And a big one is, say, injury rate.

你们受伤的频率高吗？

How often are you getting injured?

我坐在这儿跟这些选手打交道，能明显看出来，这个人受伤的次数远少于那个人。

And at least me sitting in this seat working with these guys, I can tell you that this guy did not get injured nearly as much as this guy.

就是那个执行力很高的选手。

The guy that had the high compliance.

那个饮食、睡眠、恢复都做得特别好的人，从来都没受过伤，但就是不够稳定。

The guy that was really, really good with his diet, sleep, recovery, never had got injured, but never as consistently.

生病、不适，还有其他一些情况，比如缺席训练，大概就是这些。

Illness, sickness, even other things Missed training sessions, probably.

缺席训练，甚至睡眠质量也会影响。

Missed training sessions, even sleep quality.

我们为他们做过睡眠监测。

We've done sleep studies on them.

结果非常清楚。

And it's like, it's very, very clear.

但归根结底，我们还是看到了非常非常高的竞技水平。

It's like but at the end of the day, we're still getting a very, very, very high level performance.

我觉得这其实说明了两件事。

And I think it just shows two things.

我觉得表现这件事非常复杂。

I think performance is very complicated.

不管你如何定义表现，体育中的影响因素越多，它就越复杂。

No matter how you want to define it, I think it gets more complicated the more factors there are in sports.

我觉得综合格斗是一项极其多维度的运动。

And I would classify mixed martial arts as a very multifaceted sport.

是的。

Yeah.

确实很复杂。

It's complicated.

比如说跑步，它算是一个维度比较单一的运动，但也有一些需要考虑的因素。

Let's say running running is a single faceted sport that has some considerations.

综合格斗真的非常非常非常复杂。

Very, very, very multifaceted mixed martial arts.

所以，构成这种表现的还有许多其他因素。

So there's obviously lots of other components that are making up this performance.

但接着我就想，这些运动员退役之后会怎样呢？

But then I go, well, what happens after these guys retire?

他们过去在训练巅峰期养成的那些习惯，现在依然还在。

And then we've got all these same habits that we built here in the most successful parts of their training years.

可现在他们不训练了，就得一直带着这些习惯生活。

Now they've got to live with them when they're not training.

那我们现在该怎么做呢？

So what do we do now?

我觉得，这时候就明白了。

And that's where I think, okay.

我们在运动营养方面的责任，不只是局限于周期性饮食或训练期间的饮食。

Our responsibility in this performance nutrition doesn't just extend to the periodized nutrition, to the training nutrition.

你得教他们一些能受用一生的技能。

You have to be teaching these guys skills for the rest of their life.

这一点在摔跤界大家都知道得很清楚。

Because it's very, very well known, especially in the wrestling world.

我们经常看到，摔跤手退役后体重都会明显增加。

We see when wrestlers retire, they tend to put on a lot of weight.

对。

Yeah.

最根本的原因是，他们保留了当运动员时的全部习惯——那时候他们训练量极大，可能还是大学里的顶尖选手，但退役后有了孩子、找了工作，生活一忙起来，就顾不上了。

And the most simple basic reason for that is they keep all of the habits from when they were an extremely active, probably extremely successful college wrestler, but then they have kids, they get a job, life gets in the way, we get busy.

你可能偶尔还会去健身房，但运动量大幅下降，饮食和其他习惯却一点没变。

You might go to the gym here and there, but the activity comes down, but the eating habits stay the same, and all of the other habits stay the same as well.

于是你就看到一种下滑趋势：健康问题接踵而至，体重上升，营养缺乏，但以前训练强度那么大，这些还能扛得住。

So you see this, like, downslope where we go, okay, we're getting all these health problems, we're putting on weight, getting these deficiencies, because you can get away with it when you're just training really, really, really hard.

可到了后半辈子，就没那么容易糊弄过去了。

But you can't get away with it later in life.

所以这是一个我经常引用的非常有意思的例子。

So it's a very, very interesting example that I always use.

没错，表面上看他们可能表现得完美无缺，但内在到底发生了什么？

It's, yes, even though at face value, you might be performing at your absolute best, what's happening under the hood?

我认为，作为他们的表现团队，我们有这个责任。

And I think it's our responsibility as their performance team.

对。

Yes.

我们不仅要追求出色的表现，还得确保所有内在环节都得到妥善维护。

We need to get a great performance, but we need to make sure everything under the hood is still looked after.

我喜欢一句话：理论上，理论和实践之间不应该有差别。

I love the saying of, in theory, there should be no difference between theory and practice.

但现实中，差别是存在的。

In practice, there is.

对吧？

Right?

在你带运动员和普通学员的经验里，你觉得什么样的坚持程度才算合理？

So what's a just in your experience with your athletes and with your nonathletes, so your regular folks that you coach as well, What's a reasonable adherence?

我觉得八二法则挺常见的。

I think eighty twenty gets around a lot.

我们公司提倡的是九一法则。

Personally, as a company, what we promote is ninety ten.

九一法则。

Ninety ten.

我们这么说是因为这90%也不该太死板。

And the reason that we say that is because that 90% shouldn't be something that's extremely rigid either.

不该像你所说的那样，搞个严格的饮食计划，让人一想到早餐就头疼。

It shouldn't be something like like you said, where we have this meal plan and it's like, god, I got breakfast.

早餐吃什么？

What's breakfast?

干鸡蛋。

Oh, dry eggs.

是的

Yeah.

一杯水就行。

A glass of water.

好吧。

Okay.

那我的零食该吃点什么？

What do I have for my snack?

一根干巴巴的蛋白棒。

A dry protein bar.

天哪。

Oh, god.

饮食不该这么死板，搞得人觉得太难受了。

You know, it shouldn't be so rigid that, oh, man, this is horrible.

你做运动的时候，也会觉得压力山大。

And then the activity that you're doing, you're going, oh, god.

我的教练想让我去做Hyrox训练，但我特别讨厌Hyrox。

My trainer wants me to do a Hyrox session, and I hate Hyrox.

我就想散散步，或者，我也不知道，我想做做体操什么的。

I just wanna go for a walk or, I don't know, I wanna do gymnastics.

如果是那种模式，那真的会非常、非常难。

If it's that system, it's gonna make it very, very hard.

但如果你像我们之前讨论的那样，把它设计成一个整体的方案，并且真正去配合眼前这位学员的需求，而不是光嘴上说说。

But if you set this up like we spoke about to make it a holistic thing and you work with the person in front of you, and you don't just go, hey.

理论上的数字是一回事，但我们要把这些数据套用到这个人的生活方式、目标、需求、愿望、处境以及财务状况上，从而创造一个让我们觉得‘行，没问题’的环境。

There's all these theoretical numbers, and you go, let's take this and mold it to this person's lifestyle, their goals, their needs, their wants, their situation, their financial situation, and you create environment where we go, okay.

那我们怎么能做到坚持90%呢？

How can we stick to this 90%?

你可以用一种切实可行的方式来实现这一点。

You can do that in a way where it will happen.

关键是要适合他们的生活方式。

It just has to suit their lifestyle.

所以别老吃单调的鸡胸肉了，咱们来弄个浆果酸奶碗，再加点蛋白粉，让吃东西变得有意思点。

So instead of having boring plain chicken, okay, let's do a yogurt bowl with berries, and let's add some protein powder, and let's make it exciting.

而且你还有孩子。

And, hey, you've got kids.

你能不能顺便做个饭，顺便让孩子也参与进来？

How can you make a meal as well and get the kids involved?

这样就成了全家一起做的事，也能让习惯更自然地养成。

So it's like a family thing, and we're enhancing that way.

是的。

Hey.

你没必要去搞那些超高强度的训练。

You don't wanna do these crazy high intensity workouts.

你喜欢游泳吗？

Do you like swimming?

那咱们想想办法，怎么让你能去游泳池。

Oh, let's let's figure out how we can get you to the pool.

孩子们会游泳吗？

Do the kids swim?

咱们把这整合进去。

Let's integrate this.

如果你能把这些都做到，融入日常生活，那90%的时间坚持下来就会容易得多。

So if you can do all that and make this part of your lifestyle, sticking to it 90% of the time becomes much easier.

我们说10%是因为现实中，总会有圣诞节大餐。

And we say 10% because in reality, we're always gonna have a Christmas lunch.

是啊。

Oh, yeah.

总会有感恩节晚餐。

We're always gonna have a Thanksgiving dinner.

总会有生日聚会。

We're always gonna have a birthday.

总会有这样那样的场合，你得给自己留点余地，别一放松就内疚自责。

There's always gonna be something, and you need to be able to give yourself that allowance to not feel the guilt and shame that comes with, oh my god.

我今天饮食超标了。

I cheated on my diet.

我就是这么做的。

I did that.

我没去锻炼。

I didn't get the workout in.

生活总会有意外。

It's like life happens.

生活太忙了。

Life's busy.

你那边事情一堆。

You've got things going on.

90%的时间你都做得很好。

90% of the time, you're killing it.

没关系的。

It's alright.

去酒吧和你爸喝杯啤酒吧。

Go have a beer with your dad at the pub.

去和家人好好享受一下圣诞大餐吧。

Go enjoy, like, Christmas lunch with your family.

没关系的。

It's fine.

你大部分时间都做得很好。

You're killing it most of the time.

生活就是这样。

Life happens.

所以我们才常说90%。

That's why we like to say 90%.

剩下的10%就留给这些小插曲吧。

10% leave it for those little things.

10%其实是个挺合理的比例。

10% is actually a reasonable number.

这样算下来，你每周还是有不少次饮食偏离了计划。

That still gives you many feedings throughout the week that are not off plan.

所以如果我理解得没错，90%大概就是黄金标准了。

So if if I'm tracking that right, 90% would be sort of the gold standard.

大多数人可能达不到，但你们的目标就是朝这个方向努力。

Probably not where most people are, but that's where you guys are aiming towards.

八二法则已经足够让大多数人取得不错的效果了。

Eighty twenty is probably enough to get most people pretty good results.

75%的话，那就是差不多没效果，或者效果微乎其微。

75 is like, we're not getting anything or we're still getting some.

这个范围的底线在哪里？就是你得意识到，情况不对了。

Like, where's the bottom end of that spectrum where you're like, okay.

如果你已经落到这个地步，那就必须做出改变了。

If you're here, then you need to change things.

而所谓的改变，指的大概就是调整你的系统。

And by changing things, we probably mean systems.

你的系统，类似这样的东西。

Your system, things like that.

对吧？

Right?

我们需要改变方法。

We need to change the approach.

你觉得七十到七十五是分界线吗？还是说更低一点才算？

Would you say, like, seventy, seventy five is is that cutoff point, or is it lower where someone would say

我觉得要低得多。

I say it's a lot lower.

如果你之前完全没做，现在开始做一点，那也比什么都不做强，对吧？

I think if you're doing absolutely nothing, and then if you go to do something, that's a lot better than nothing, right?

这其实就是一个程度的问题。

And it's probably just a scale.

我觉得人们容易困惑的地方在于，不知道怎么把它融入日常生活。

And I think where people get mixed up is they don't know how to integrate it into their life.

但如果你根本不运动，也不吃有营养的食物——当然，‘有营养’对运动员和普通人来说定义也不一样。

But if you're not exercising, you're not eating any nourishing foods and say, nourishing is gonna be different for, say, an athlete than an everyday person.

我们就假设你随便吃点能填饱肚子的东西吧。

But let's just say you're just eating whatever you can.

根本没怎么动脑筋。

There's no thought.

这么做完全没有道理。

There's no logic behind it.

你有别的更重要的事要忙。

You've got other priorities.

如果你连这些都没做，突然有一天你决定：

If you're not doing any of that, and then you just go, okay.

好吧，我要增加蛋白质摄入，多喝水，每天走一万步。

I need to increase my protein, increase my hydration, and I'm gonna aim for 10,000 steps a day.

光是做到这些，就能带来很大的改善。

There's gonna be big gains to be had from that.

这就像柔术里常说的一句话：从沙发上站起来走到垫子上，比从白带升到蓝带还要难。

And there's it's it's like that old saying in jujitsu, if going from the couch onto the mat is far harder than going from white belt to blue belt.

没错。

Right.

如果你的健康和体能处在最低点，从那个状态起步，哪怕只是达到基础水平，也相当吃力，但进步会非常明显。

And if you're at the bottom and you're at absolute ground zero with your health and fitness, going from that to even a white belt in that area is very difficult, but you'll get really good gains from it.

之后就可以逐步提升了。

And then it's just to scale up.

我本来想说个具体数字。

So I was gonna say a number.

这真的不容易。

It's it's tough.

你想想看。

Think yeah.

对。

Yeah.

九十比十，虽然理想化了点，但总比什么都不做强。

Ninety, ten, very, very idealistic, but something's better than nothing.

除了这些，还有没有其他核心原则是你无论面对谁、无论目标是什么都会坚持的？还是说我们已经讲得差不多了？

Is there any other core principles that you always like to follow regardless of the person, regardless of the goal, or do you think we've covered most of those already?

我觉得我们可以给出一些具体数字，我也解释一下为什么这些原则要用这些数字。

I think we could probably give numbers, and I think I'll explain why we give those numbers for these principles.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得，如果有人来的时候——特别是那些顶尖运动员，情况会不太一样，因为我们用的是周期化的方法，就像我刚才举的例子那样。

And I think the way I look at it, if someone comes in and again, when we've got elite performers, athletes, it's it's a bit different because, again, we're we're using this periodized approach like I use with that example.

追求表现，不总是最健康的。

Performance isn't always the healthiest thing.

没错。

Mhmm.

但当我们聊的是像你我这样的普通人时，有几件事是我一直会关注的，我觉得这些应该是普遍适用的目标和原则。

But when we're talking about just the everyday Joe, like you and me, Andy, there's a few things I like to tick off, and I think they're probably universal goals and principles.

对吧？

Right?

大多数人希望老了还能健康地活着，身体强壮，能陪孙子孙女玩，头脑清醒，能正常聊天，整体保持不错的健康状态。

Where most people want to be able to live into their old age and be healthy, be strong, be able to play with their grandkids, and be able sound of mind enough to be able to hold conversation, and then be overall have a pretty good sense of health.

对吧？

Right?

总的来说，他们的晚年生活质量应该不会太差。

Like, overall, their ticket's gonna be pretty good.

我一想到这个目标，就觉得可以把它拆解成一些很容易上手、你绝对该先做的小事。

And then when I look at that, I go, okay, if that's the goal, I could probably break these down into some pretty low hanging fruit that you probably should pick off.

只要你长期坚持做这些，就能很好地为那样的生活打下基础。

And if you do that chronically over time, it'll set you up for that pretty well.

所以咱们来想想看。

So I'd say, like, let's think about it.

如果你想长寿，想有力气提购物袋、陪孙子玩耍，那肌肉真的特别关键。

If you want to grow old, you want to, say, be strong, be able to carry the groceries in, play around with your grandkids, your muscle's gonna be really important.

所以从营养角度来看，关于肌肉，我们最需要关注的就是蛋白质。

And so what's the main thing we need to think about from a nutrition standpoint with your muscle is protein.

我觉得这是最基础、最简单的一点，我们可以直接说：好吧。

So I think that's the first and foremost, the easiest thing that we can just say, okay.

如果我要给自己制定一个饮食计划，从头开始，那就先保证摄入足够的蛋白质。

If I wanna write myself a diet and just get started here, let's get a good amount of protein.

现在，斯图·菲利普斯医生，不知道你是否熟悉他。

Now Stu doctor Stu Phillips, not sure if you're familiar with him.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我非常了解斯图。

I know Stu very well.

斯图。

Stu.

我特别认同斯图的观点。

I I love Stu's philosophy.

知识。

Knowledge.

我特别欣赏Stu的观点，他不是反对推荐摄入量，而是觉得那个数字太低了。

I love the the philosophy Stu has against not against the RDA, but the Yep.

每公斤0.8克，或者每磅0.3克的蛋白质，可能根本不够。

That 0.8 grams per kilogram or 0.3 grams per pound, probably not enough.

没错。

No.

我觉得至少应该从每公斤1.5克，也就是每磅0.7克的蛋白质开始。

And I would say, as a base, 1.5 grams or about 0.7 grams per pound of protein.

这是个不错的起点。

Great place to start.

还是偏低了。

It's still pretty low.

确实还是偏低。

Still pretty low.

作为起点再合适不过了。

Great place to start.

完全做得到。

Easily achievable.

我知道有些人一听到蛋白质摄入建议，总会说：‘这数字也太高了，根本达不到。’

I know some folks, when you hear protein recommendations, a lot of comments I get back are like, oh, that's so hard to get to that number.

但你刚才说的这些数字，其实并不难达到。

But the numbers you gave are are would be not that challenging to get to.

真的很容易就能达到。

Very, very easy to get to.

一天吃个两顿，就能轻松搞定。

Couple feedings, if not two feedings a day, you could do that.

接下来很多人纠结的，其实是总的热量摄入。

I think the next one that a lot of people ties up them a lot is just your overall calorie intake.

我们可以再深入聊聊这个话题。

And I guess we can get into the weeds about this a bit more.

说到热量摄入和消耗，也就是能量平衡，我更倾向于用‘能量可用性’这个概念。简单来说，就是扣除你一天所有的活动消耗、基础代谢以及其他开销后，身体还剩下多少热量。

When we talk about calories in calories out and energy balance, I like to think of it the energy availability, which essentially just means how many calories does your body have after it accounts for all the activity that you're doing in your day, your metabolism, everything else.

你有多少热量可以用来给身体供能呢？

How many calories do you have available to fuel your body?

按理说，你应该有足够的热量来维持身体各个系统的正常运转，比如免疫系统、肺部、心脏，还有肌肉和骨骼，这些都需要热量来支撑。

And it would make sense that you have enough to make sure all your bodily systems are working, your immune system, your lungs, your heart, everything else, your muscles, bones, you have enough calories to support those body systems.

这听起来可能很简单，但实际操作起来其实挺难的。

And that may sound really simple, but it's quite hard in reality.

对吧？

Right?

大家就会说，好吧。

And people will go, okay.

那怎么知道什么适合我呢？

Well, how do I know what's right for me?

我是不是做过头了？

And am I doing too much?

我们都知道，如果长期过度消耗，可能会导致体重增加，还会带来一系列代谢方面的影响。

And we know if you do too much over time, that can cause weight gain, and then there's metabolic effects that are associated with that.

那我该怎么把握好这个度呢？

So how do I get that right?

明白了这一点之后，就可以说，好吧。

So understanding that and going, okay.

安迪，你的热量摄入目标大概可以定在这个范围内。

Andy, these are probably a good range for your calories to be aiming for.

你知道吗？

You know what?

来，我们看看。

Here we go.

咱们先把蛋白质加上。

Let's add this protein in.

接下来我要说的是，也得补充一些脂肪。

The next thing I would say is like, well, let's get some fat in there.

我们知道脂肪对身体至关重要，对荷尔蒙健康尤其重要。

We know fat's extremely important for the body, very, very important for your hormonal health.

那我们到底需要多少脂肪呢？

How much fat do we need?

对于我的运动员，我会建议最低摄入量为每公斤体重0.5克。

I would say lower end that I would take for my fighters, 0.5 grams per kilo.

不过这个量已经低得离谱了。

That's exceptionally low, though.

是的。

Yeah.

确实低得过分了。

That's a very Exceptionally low.

对。

Yeah.

所以即便是普通人，我也会建议每天摄入量达到每公斤体重1.5克左右。

So I would say even for the average person, you're looking up to 1.5 grams per kilogram.

即便如此，我们还是有不少调整空间。

Even then, we've got a lot more wiggle room.

我觉得可以这样定。

And I go, okay.

那我们就先定下来，这部分就是你在这个理想饮食里该摄入的脂肪量。

Well, let's set that, and then that's your fat that you can put in this theoretical diet

你现在的水平。

that you're at.

零点五到一点五。

Point five and one point five.

我建议从低端开始，逐步上调到一到一点五。

I'd say at the lower end and even come up one to 1.5.

我们就保持在这个范围吧。

Let's stay around there.

然后我们就定下来。

And then we go, okay.

碳水化合物。

Carbs.

然后大家都会说，天哪。

And then everyone goes, oh my god.

碳水化合物。

Carbs.

carbs 这个被妖魔化的词。

The demon word carbs.

我就说，你听好了。

And I go, look.

因为每个人第一反应都是，碳水化合物不是必需的。

Because the first thing that everyone says, they go, oh, carbs aren't essential.

我不是运动员，没必要吃这些。

If I'm not an athlete, I don't need to be using them.

我就说，你知道吗？

I go, you know what?

你说得对。

You're right.

但咱们也不一定非得开着特斯拉在101号公路上跑，可它就在那儿，大家该用还是用。

But we also don't need to be driving Teslas down the 101, but, like, they're there, and we use them.

生活确实方便多了。

It makes life a lot easier.

我跟人聊碳水化合物时，最先提到的就是那个词——纤维。

The thing that I first and foremost, I talk about with people when it comes to carbs, I go, the f word, fiber.

碳水化合物是纤维的绝佳来源，这一点我们很清楚。

I go, carbs are such a great source of fiber, and we know.

在营养学里，几乎没什么共识，但纤维是个例外：只要长期摄入足够量，对健康的好处是实实在在的。

It's probably one of the only things we know in nutrition that if you have a certain amount of fiber for a certain period of time, for a long period of time, it's hugely beneficial to your health.

所以不管你对碳水持什么看法，如果只是搭一个最基础的饮食框架，那就用碳水来保证每天至少摄入25到30克纤维。

So no matter what your views are on these carbs, if you're just setting up your bare bones diet, use the amount of carbs to get at least 25 to 30 grams of fiber a day.

对。

Yeah.

然后我们想想，好吧。

And then we go, okay.

这样一来，我们就有了一个很棒的结构，这还没算上微量营养素呢。

Well, then we've got this really cool structure, and that's not even talking about, okay, let's getting micronutrients.

你这儿只是搭了个最基础的框架。

You've just got your bare bones structure here.

从这儿开始，我们再想想，好吧。

So from there, we can go, okay.

我的热量已经定好了。

I've set my calories.

蛋白质和脂肪的摄入量也设了上下限。

I've got an upper and lower limit for protein, fat.

根据你的生活方式，你可能会觉得，好吧。

Depending on what your lifestyle is, you might go, okay.

为了配合这项活动，我需要多摄入一些碳水。

I need more carbs for this activity.

我不太爱吃碳水化合物，随便吧，但你得确保摄入足够的膳食纤维。

I don't, I don't particularly like carbs, whatever, but make sure you're getting this amount of fiber.

当你和别人一起做这种分析时，通常会说：‘安迪，我们已经把这些数据拆解清楚了。’

And when you do this activity with people, you usually go, okay, Andy, we've broken down these numbers.

如果你按这些宏量营养素的上限来吃，碳水化合物的摄入量足以让你获得30克纤维。

All of that, if you do the upper limits of all of these macronutrients, you eat enough carbs to get 30 grams.

比如说我们目标是2000大卡，但算完之后发现，安迪，你实际的活动量需要2400大卡。

Let's say we're trying to hit 2,000 calories, but then we work it out and we go, Andy, actually, the activity and everything you're doing, you need 2,400.

那你就多了400大卡可以灵活调整。

You go, you've an extra 400 calories to play with.

然后你会问：‘乔迪，我该怎么安排才最好？’

And then you'll go, Jordy, what's the what's the best way for me?

我该怎么做才合适？

What do I do here?

我会问：‘那你喜欢吃什么？’

And I go, well, what do you like?

这时候，我们就可以开始应用这个九成十成的原则了。

And I go, this is where we can start setting up this ninety ten principle.

因为如果你跟我说，Jordy，我真的不太爱吃太多脂肪。

Because if I go you go to me, Jordy, I just don't really like eating a lot of fat.

这其实不重要，Andy。

Like, it doesn't matter, Andy.

真的不重要，朋友。

Doesn't matter, pal.

听好了，这是我的建议。

Here's the plan.

多吃点脂肪。

Get more fat in.

很可能那90%的占比就会开始松动了。

Probably that 90% is gonna start to slip.

但如果你跟我说，Jordy，你想想看？

But if you say, hey, Jordy, you know what?

我这些数字都达到了，但我就是更喜欢饮食里多点蛋白质。

I'm hitting all these numbers, but I just love having more protein in my diet.

哥们儿，咱们还剩400大卡的余地。

Okay, man, we got 400 calories to spare.

你知道吗？

You know what?

咱们把蛋白质再加一点吧。

Let's bump this protein up.

加点蛋白质没问题，你尽管加。

Let's get a bit protein, you can go for it.

对。

Yeah.

你可以直接往上加，这样调整才更贴合你的需求。

And you can just bump it up, and that's how we can make this more relevant to you.

但我认为，用这样的结构来搭建最基础的框架，真的很有帮助。

But I think using a structure like that just to get your bare bones framework is really useful.

而且这特别实用，因为它根本不需要套用什么饮食理论。

And it's really, really useful because it doesn't use a lot of diet ideology either.

所以你跟喜欢生酮、喜欢食肉、喜欢动物性饮食的人聊，也能让这套方法适合他们。

So you can have this conversation with people who love keto, who love carnivore, who love animal based, and you can make it work for them.

我觉得正因如此，人才会愿意坚持下去，你看，说白了——

And I think that's where you get this adherence and compliance from where, hey, you know what?

你爱怎么吃我都无所谓。

I don't really care what you love.

这完全没问题。

You and it's okay.

你喜欢生酮，没问题。

You can love keto.

你想怎么吃都行。

You can do whatever.

就像你说的，只要我们长期跟踪，确保你的各项指标正常，你的表现也跟得上，你想怎么吃就怎么吃，但先把这几项基本要求落实了，等你真正稳住了，我们再考虑怎么优化。

Like you said, as long as we're testing this over time, making sure your biomarkers are good, you're performing in whatever it is you need to perform in, eat whatever way you want, but let's tick these main things off, and then let's look to optimize once you've absolutely nailed this.

首先从蛋白质开始，再整体把握热量摄入，然后调整脂肪和碳水的比例，来达到理想的总量。

So starting with protein for the most part, having a sense then of total caloric intake, playing with different combinations of fats and carbohydrates to balance the final number.

在这个基础上，每千卡路里大概需要10到14克纤维，对大多数人来说，这就相当于每天25到35克。

Within that though, probably in the neighborhood of 10 to 14 grams of fiber per thousand calories, which is gonna net you 25 to thirty, thirty 5 for most sort of people.

如果你能达到这个量，基本上就决定了你主要摄入的碳水类型。

So if you get those, that sort of predetermines the kind of carbohydrates you're getting for the most part.

对吧？

Right?

你不可能靠果冻豆一天吃下30克蛋白质。

You're not gonna get 30 grams of protein a day in jelly beans.

想靠果冻豆吃下30克纤维，那几乎不可能。

Like, that's gonna be or 30 grams of fiber in jelly beans, that's gonna be pretty tough.

所以，光是满足这些基本要求，就已经在无形中提升了食物的整体质量。

So by default though, you're setting almost a little bit of backdrop for quality of food.

那到了这一步，饮食选择和食物品质该怎么考虑呢？

So how at this point, is this is when food choices come in and food quality, or how do you think about that?

是的

Yeah.

没错

Exactly.

这确实是个挺有意思的问题

And it's a it's a funny area.

对吧

Right?

我觉得，尤其是营养师和饮食专家，我的观点是天然食物很重要

Because I feel like, especially nutritionists, dietitians, my position is that whole foods are important.

我确实认为天然食物很重要，因为我亲眼见过

I really do think whole foods are important because I've stunner.

而且因为我有幸接触过一些顶尖运动员，就像我之前说的，安迪，我看到他主要吃天然食物

But and because I've been fortunate enough to work with these elite level athletes, like I said, Andy, where I've seen, okay, this guy eats mostly whole foods.

而另一个人不吃，但我已经跟他合作六七年了

This guy doesn't, and I've worked with him for six, seven years.

我们正在测试所有这些东西，结果很明显，这真的有影响。

And we're we're testing everything, and we're seeing, and we're going, man, this this does make a difference.

我们之所以这样设计，是因为想说明一点，

And the reason that we set that up and we say, hey.

碳水化合物，咱们目标定在25到30克。

Carbohydrates, let's get 25, 30 grams.

就像你说的，想从果冻豆里吃进30克纤维，根本不可能。

Like you said, very hard to get 30 grams of fiber from jelly beans.

是的。

Yeah.

确实很难。

It's tough.

非常非常难。

Very, very tough.

所以这就说明了，我们很可能得把全食物纳入饮食中。

So it sets up this backdrop of, okay, we probably need to include these whole foods.

我不是说你得天天吃这些食物。

And I'm not saying you need to eat them all the time.

我一直秉持的一个理念，这句话我借自利物浦约翰摩尔斯大学的格雷厄姆·克洛斯博士。

A big philosophy that I practice by, and I'll steal these words from Doctor Graham Close from Liverpool John Rawls

明白。

Sure.

核心是优先选择天然食物，但不只是光靠食物本身。

Is that whole foods first, but not just food alone.

是的。

Yeah.

意思是，我们当然优先选天然食物，但有时候，单靠食物可能没法很好地达成目标。

What that means is that, yeah, we wanna choose whole foods, but at some point, the food's not gonna be the best option to fit these goals.

举个很好的例子，就是肌酸一水合物。

And I think a great example of this is creatine monohydrate.

天然食物当然优先，但如果你在进行肌酸冲击期，真会想每天吃三到五公斤牛排吗？

Whole foods first for sure, but if you're loading creatine monohydrate, do you really wanna be eating three to five kilos of steak a day?

挺难的。

Tough.

不太现实。

Probably not realistic.

对吧？

Right?

可能有些人可以。

Maybe some people.

我倒是很乐意。

I would love it.

可能有些人可以。

Maybe some people.

是的。

Yeah.

也许对某些人来说。

Maybe for some.

但这是一个例子，说明我们确实应该优先选天然食物，但不能只靠食物。

But that's an example where we go, yeah, whole foods first, but not foods alone.

对。

Yeah.

所以咱们回头再说，直接来两勺肌酸就行。

So let's just take that back, and let's just have a couple scoops of creatine here.

乳清蛋白也是个很好的例子，我们会想，天哪。

I think whey protein is a great example of that as well, where we go, oh, man.

咱们得摄入三十克蛋白质。

Like, we wanna get 30 grams of protein here.

比如说，一块小鸡胸肉。

Let's say a chicken breast, a small chicken breast.

然后想，要是我不爱吃这个，每天吃七八块，那蛋白质也太多了。

And we go, oh, if I don't want that, if I'm eating seven to eight of them a day, I don't wanna get to this much protein.

那就直接来一勺乳清蛋白吧。

Let's just have a scoop of whey protein here.

对于这些顶级运动员，或者只是普通健身人群来说，这样做能简单很多。

It just makes it so much easier, when it comes to these elite level athletes or just people who train, not even elite level athletes.

我们打交道的，是我所说的‘专业业余爱好者’，

We work with what I call professional amateurs,

就是那些

which

人人都认识这样的人。

and everyone knows them.

每个办公室里都有这样的家伙。

Everyone has them at the office.

你肯定知道那个痴迷铁人三项的家伙。

You know the guy way too into triathlon.

他一进来，

He comes in.

就是我们常说的那些穿紧身衣的中年男性。

It's the men what we call them, the mammals, the middle aged men in Lycra.

你别误会。

Don't get me wrong.

我特别支持，我自己也是耐力型的，所以完全理解。

Big fan, and I'm an endurance guy, so I get it.

但他们训练的强度，简直跟职业运动员没两样。

But they are training basically like a professional athlete.

没错。

Yep.

要靠纯天然食物吃下四千五百大卡，还达到我们设定的训练营养目标，实在太难了。

Gonna be very, very difficult for them to eat 4,500 calories complete whole foods and achieve the training nutrition goals that we've set out for them.

所以我真的觉得。

So I really do.

天然食物当然应该是饮食的主体，但有些加工食品，在特定时候用一下也没问题。

I believe that whole foods should make up the bulk of your diet, but there is a time and place for these more processed foods.

今天的节目由帕克大学赞助播出。

Today's episode is brought to you by Parker University.

如果你还不知道的话，我在2024年年中把我的研究实验室、教学和所有学术活动都迁到了Parker大学，对此我感到无比兴奋。

If you haven't heard yet, I moved my research lab, teaching, and all academic activities to Parker in mid two thousand twenty four and could not be more excited about it.

Parker大学是全美增长最快的大学之一，因为它的设施、技术和学生体验真的无人能及。

Parker is one of the fastest growing universities in the country because the facilities, technology, and student experience are truly unrivaled.

说实话，我从来没看过哪个学校像Parker这样打造得这么出色。

I've honestly never seen anything like what they've built at Parker University.

不仅如此，我们目前正在建设一座六万四千平方英尺的人体表现中心，将彻底突破运动科学和人类潜能的边界。

On top of that, we're currently building a 64,000 square foot human performance center that will push the boundaries of sports science and human potential.

Parker大学和人体表现中心都位于德克萨斯州达拉斯市，提供35个医疗健康领域的顶尖学术项目，比如人体表现、力量与体能、营养、整脊医学等等。

Parker and the human performance center are physically located in Dallas, Texas, and feature elite academic programs in 35 healthcare fields, such as human performance, strength and conditioning, nutrition, chiropractic, and much more.

但我们也提供完全线上的本科和研究生课程。

But we also have incredible undergraduate and graduate tracks that are fully remote.

也就是说，你可以在世界任何地方，跟我攻读力量与表现方向的硕士学位。

Meaning you can get a master's degree from me in strength and performance from anywhere in the world.

人体表现中心今年晚些时候将正式开放，将开展前沿研究、配备先进的科研设备，提供沉浸式学习体验，设立专门展示人类适应力与韧性的访客中心，并向公众开放一系列服务。

The Human Performance Center will open later this year and feature groundbreaking research and scientific capabilities, immersive student experiences, a visitor center dedicated to human adaptability and resilience, and a suite of services that are open to the public.

所以，这些年来一直给我发邮件，想来我实验室做检测的朋友们，现在你们都可以来了。

So all of you who've emailed me over the years asking to come to my lab to get some testing done, now you can all do that.

想了解更多关于帕克大学的课程，预约实地参观或参加我们的精彩研讨会，请访问 parker.edu。

To learn more about our academic programs at Parker, set up an in person visit or attend one of our incredible seminars, visit parker.edu.

再强调一遍，网址是 parker.edu。

One more time, that's parker.edu.

本期节目还由 Eight Sleep 赞助。

Today's episode is also sponsored by Eight Sleep.

Eight Sleep 生产智能床垫罩，具备制冷、加热、睡眠监测等功能。

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, sleep tracking, and more.

我自己已经用了好几年的 Eight Sleep 床垫罩，睡得简直太舒服了。

I've personally been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for years now, and it's absolutely glorious.

我太喜欢了，以至于每次出差都特别不情愿，因为没法睡我的 Eight Sleep Pod Four Ultra。

I love it so much that I hate traveling away from home because it means I can't sleep on my Eight Sleep Pod four Ultra.

就像我在这档播客里反复说的，对你健康和表现影响最大的事，莫过于拥有高质量的睡眠。

As you'll hear me talk about endlessly on this podcast, there really is nothing you can do that makes more of an impact on your health and performance than getting tremendous sleep.

要想睡得好，晚上体温得下降几度。

And getting great sleep requires having your body temperature drop a couple of degrees at night.

但光靠自己很难做到这一点。

And that's hard to do on your own.

Eight Sleep 对我来说简直是革命性的，因为我晚上特别容易发热，我老婆管这叫‘人形暖炉’。

The Eight Sleep has been a game changer for me because I run hot at night, or as my wife calls it, I'm a furnace.

要是没有 Eight Sleep 这样的东西帮我降温，我半夜总会热醒，整个人都不舒服。

If I don't have something like an Eight Sleep helping me cool down, I'll wake up in the middle of the night overheating and not feeling great.

我在带教的很多人身上也发现了类似的情况，尤其是那些运动量很大的人。

This is something I've also found in many of the people that I coach, especially those who are really physically active.

Eight Sleep Pod Four Ultra 的降温能力是以前的两倍，但运行起来几乎悄无声息。

The Eight Sleep Pod four Ultra has two times more cooling power, yet is virtually silent.

它还能精准监测睡眠，甚至能检测打鼾，自动把你的头部抬高几度，改善通气，帮你止住打鼾。

And it has high fidelity sleep tracking and even has snoring detection that'll automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve airflow and stop your snoring.

如果你想试试 Eight Sleep，去 8sleep.com/perform，可以立减 350 美元，直接拿下 Pod Four Ultra。

If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, go to 8sleep.com/perform to save $350 off your Pod four Ultra.

Eight Sleep 目前配送到美国、加拿大、英国、部分欧盟国家，甚至澳大利亚。

Eight Sleep currently ships to The US, Canada, The UK, select countries in The EU, and even Australia.

再次提醒，网址是 8sleep.com/perform。

Again, that's 8sleep.com/perform.

好的。

Okay.

有人上门服务，不管是那个我一时想不起缩写的家伙——就是特别爱铁人三项的那位，我真的很喜欢这一点。

Somebody shows up to your door, whether they're the I I forget the acronym you just used, but the the guy who likes triathlons way too much, that's I love that.

别介意，Rob。

No offense, Rob.

另一个是专业人士，嗯，那也没问题。

The the other person, the professional, think, fine.

其实无所谓。

Doesn't matter.

那我该测试些什么？

What should I be testing?

在我开始饮食计划和新的运动营养策略之前，我该注意些什么？

What should I be paying attention to before I start my fueling program, my new performance nutrition strategy?

我首先得准备好什么？

What do I gotta have first?

如果有人进来，比如那个特别兴奋的铁人三项爱好者——罗布来了，对吧？

So if you're walking in, if we've got the overexcited triathlete coming through the door, Rob's coming through the door Yeah.

没别的意思。

No offense.

我们第一步先从热量开始吧。

So first thing we need to do is let let's start with just the calories.

对吧？

Right?

安迪，你那边应该有不少先进的代谢检测设备吧？

And and, Andy, you've probably got access some to some amazing metabolic equipment.

对吧？

Right?

但像你我这样能接触到这些设备的人，其实只是少数。

But people like you and me who have access to that is very much the minority.

我们不能直接对普通人说，嘿。

We can't just take the everyday person and say, hey.

去测个静息代谢率，然后我们就能算出你具体需要多少热量。

Go get a resting metabolic rate test, and we'll figure out exactly how many calories.

这是你平时给客户提供的主要服务吗？

Is that what you like to do for your folks?

如果有精英级别的运动员，并且他们能接触到这些设备，经济上也没有负担，这确实会增加整个情况的压力。我很希望能做到这一点。

Abs if we've got if we've got elite level athletes who have access to that, and it's not a financial burden to them, which adds to the stress of the whole situation, for sure, I'd love to be able to

做到这一点。

do that.

在澳大利亚，现实情况通常是怎样的呢？

The reality are those in Australia usually?

这就是关键所在。

This is the thing.

没那么容易。

Not very.

我觉得，除非是能接触到精英运动中心的UFC运动员，否则普通人基本没戏。

I would say, unless they're a UFC athlete who has access to the performance institute, we're probably not gonna be able to get them.

我们一些在新西兰的运动员，如果靠近澳大利亚体育学院，或许还有机会。

Some of our New Zealand based athletes, New Zealand high performance, if you're close to the Australian Institute of Sport, maybe.

但除此之外，想做这种检测真的非常困难。

But outside of that, very, very difficult to get them done.

明白了。

Okay.

因为在咱们美国，做这个其实挺方便的。

Because it's pretty it's pretty easy to get it done here in The States.

是的。

Yeah.

一般来说，大概一百到两百美元就能搞定。

Like, you know, generally, probably a $100, $200.

所以这个检测在这里做起来应该挺容易的。

So that test would be pretty easy to get done.

所以理想情况下，如果你能做这样的检测的话——

So ideally, you'd like to see something like that if

当然最好能做。

you can.

我的意思是，如果你能去附近的理疗师或诊所做个检查，那肯定再好不过了。

I mean, if you if you can go down the road to the physio or the doctor's surgery and you can get that done, for sure.

因为这样能得到一个比较准确的数据。

Because it's gonna give you a pretty good number.

不然的话，就只能用我们说的那些标准公式了，种类可多了。

Other than that, you've got to use what we call the standardized equations, which range.

有好多不同的公式，比如哈里斯-本尼迪克特公式，各种各样的。

There's so many of them, and you know the Harris Benedict, so many types of them.

它们基本上都是根据大量人群数据，结合你的年龄、体重、身高和其他几个因素，估算出你每天应该摄入多少卡路里。

Basically, what they're doing is taking all this population data and going, hey, based on your age, weight, height, and a couple other factors, this is how many calories we think you should be having per day.

是的

Yep.

我们当然会提供所有这些内容的直接链接，听众们都清楚。

And we'll we'll put direct links to all that, of course, everyone in the show knows.

但这些计算都是免费的。

But these are free calculations.

对吧？

Right?

免费的计算。

Free calculations.

你可以在网上搜索。

Can Google them.

你只需要输入很少的信息，比如身高、体重和一些基本信息，它就会大致告诉你一天消耗多少卡路里。

You can go on there and enter a pretty minimal amount of information, typically height, weight, demographic stuff, and it'll tell you then how many calories you're burning throughout the day roughly.

没错。

Exactly.

你直接去谷歌搜一下‘弗里斯科卡路里计算器’就行。

And and you could just go to Google and Frisco, calorie calculator.

说实话，安迪，我待会儿解释为什么我们会这么做——其实这些工具你全都可以用。

To be honest, Andy, and I'll explain why we do this, is that you could use all of these.

当我面对特定人群，比如运动员时，我觉得坎宁安公式非常非常准确。

And when I'm with a very specific audience, say the fighters, the Cunningham equation is something that I think is very, very accurate.

但对普通人来说，我觉得没必要这么复杂。

But for the everyday person, I don't think that's necessary.

我们回到能量摄入这个点上：我要确保摄入的热量足够支撑身体，但又不能太少，导致身体过度消耗；也不能太多，让多余的能量变成脂肪囤积起来。

If we dial that back to that energy availability, okay, I wanna make sure that I'm getting enough calories to support my body, but not too little that we're kind of burning everything down, but not too much that, you know, we're putting surplus and putting our stores away and putting on body fat.

是5%吗？

Is that 5%?

是12%吗？

Is that 12%?

是15%吗？

Is that 15?

大概是个多少的数字？

What's what's a rough number there?

针对身体来说？

For body?

不管你是要增重还是减重。

Either way, surplus or deficit.

我们大概要调整多少？

Like, how much are we looking to get?

如果我们回退一步，假设我来给你一个公式：拿你的体重（公斤）乘以……抱歉，对用磅的朋友来说有点不友好。

So for if we wind back and we say let's just say I'll establish this, and I'll I'll just give you an equation where I go, take your body weight in kilograms, and sorry for everyone in pounds.

不用。

No.

不用。

No.

直接除一下就行。

Just divide it.

对的。

Yeah.

除以2.2。

Divided by 2.2.

如果直接用公斤数乘以40，就能得到一个挺准的每日热量估算值。

And then if we just take it in kilograms, if you can times that just by 40, the number 40, you get a pretty good estimate and go, that's my daily calories.

那我如果体重70公斤的话。

So if I weigh seventy kilograms

乘以40，就行了。

Times it by 40, and there we go.

这样就得出你的每日热量了。

And then we've got our calories.

然后你可能会想，这准吗？

And then you go, oh, is that that accurate?

但说实话，除非在严格控制的代谢环境下，否则我们根本没法确定它到底准不准。

And you go, the thing is, unless we're in a controlled metabolic environment, we're never gonna know if it's that accurate.

是的。

Yeah.

判断它准不准，关键看你实际使用后的效果。

The way that you figure out if it's accurate is based on what happens after you put it to use.

这里有个需要注意的地方。

A little bit of a flag here.

我们实验室可以测量基础代谢率。

We can test resting metabolic rate in our lab.

我们还有其他多种技术手段可以做这件事，但最终还是用你刚才说的这种方法。

We have a bunch of other technologies we can use in other ways to do it, and we still do exactly what you're gonna talk about.

其实无所谓。

It's like, it doesn't matter.

你可以拿我分享给你的那些数据。

You can take that data that I'm a that I'll share with you.

你用体重（公斤）乘以40，我跟你讲，你得到的起始数值跟我们这边的差不多。

You can take your body weight in kilograms, multiply it by 40, and I'm telling you right now, you're you're gonna be at about the same starting spot we're in.

关键在于接下来的步骤。

And that's Because it's next part that matters.

这正是我们观察到的情况。

And that's exactly what we've seen.

我接触过很多运动员，确实如此。

I've had so many athletes Yeah.

他们去运动表现中心做检测，回来后我们就会想：其实何必让他们跑这一趟？我直接用这个CAC方法，再花两周试一试、慢慢调整，不就行了吗？

Go get tested at performance centers and comes back and we go, did I really need to just send them off to do that when I could have just done this CAC and then spent two weeks trialing this out and narrowing in?

这算不算

Is it a

一种做法？

the thing?

我们只在压力特别大的情况下才这么做，比如第一次合作的运动员，时间紧迫，或者他们过去有过问题，总之就是特别紧张的时候。

Only time we do that is if we have really high pressure, like the first time we've ever worked with an athlete and we have short notice or they've had troubles in the past or, like, something like that where it's, like, they're really nervous about it.

他们很害怕。

They're scared.

除非有一些特别的情况，否则我们不会这么做，原因是一样的。

There has to be some really additional circumstances going on for us to do that for that exact same reason.

反正我基本都能猜到你们的状态，而且在那之前，其他那些都不重要。

I pretty much can I know where you're gonna be at anyways, and none of that matters until this part?

所以我们很少这么做，虽然它挺方便的，但关键还是在于后面那部分。

So we don't do it very often even though it's pretty accessible be because the next part.

那真是个很好的切入点。

So that's a great starting point.

我们回去看你的目标。

When we go we go back to your goal.

所以，如果你真的想制造热量缺口，嘿，听我说。

So say if you did wanna go into a deficit, oh, hey.

安迪来找我。

Andy comes to me.

他说在圣诞节假期之前，他想减掉一点体脂。

I wanna lose a bit of body weight before we go into the Christmas period.