EP 283- Top Trainer GM R.B. Ramesh on How to Improve Your Chess Calculation, and the keys to GM Praggnanandhaa’'s success

他拿下了世界快棋和超快棋冠军。

He has won the World Rapid and Blitz.

最近几年，他几乎没参加什么重要赛事。

And the last couple of years, has hardly played any major events.

我当时对他在这儿的表现也没太大把握，但就在几周前刚结束的快棋和超快棋赛上，

And I was not very sure about his performance here, but even in the Rapid and Blitz, which has happened just few few weeks ago prior to this.

他在这里的表现也同样出色得惊人。

Also here, his performance has been phenomenal.

他有一种能力，能在关键时刻弥补自己的不足。

He has this capability to overcome his shortcomings when the need arises.

现在他下得快多了，也更有信心了。

Like, he's playing much quicker now, and he's playing more confidently.

他做决定时更加果断了。

He's taking decisions more confidently.

他能根据需要提升自己的水平，这真的太了不起了。

So he's able to raise his level as per the demand, and that is amazing.

对于正在观看的年轻棋手，还有那些希望提升的成年爱好者来说，他证明了年龄只是一个数字，只要态度正确、肯下功夫，依然可以取得惊人的成就。

For the youngsters who are watching, and also for the adult improvers, he's showing age is just a number, with the proper attitude and work ethics, a lot can still be achieved.

是的，简直不可思议。

Yeah, absolutely incredible.

我的意思是，把他这一成就放在所有辉煌战绩里，52岁在当今这个环境下还能做到这一点，绝对堪称顶尖。

I mean, I put this up there with, I mean, of all his achievements, this is up there with any of them to do this at age 52 in the modern climate.

当然，历史上也有像斯米斯洛夫晚年进入候选人赛，或者科尔奇诺伊七十多岁仍保持世界顶级水平的故事。

I mean, of course, there are historical stories of like Smislav making the candidates and Kortchnoi remaining strong, world class into his 70s.

但在现代棋坛，这种情况越来越罕见，而他如今又重回2700分等级分的前十名。

But in this modern era, it's become increasingly rare, and here he is back in the top 10 on a 2,700 Chess.

接下来我得问一下，拉梅什。

Now, I have to follow-up, Ramesh.

听了你刚才提到的这些幕后细节，关于他分享给你的建议，你能不能也把这些经验传递给普拉格纳南达，还有你其他的天才学生？

Hearing this kind of glimpse behind the curtain of him sharing some advice that you could impart to Praggnanandha and your other Prodigy students.

你有没有印象特别深的一条建议，是阿南德当年告诉你的，现在你想转告给普拉格纳南达和其他学生的？

Is there any bit of advice that comes to mind that you could share that Anand gave you on behalf of Praggnanandha and your other students?

没有。

No.

问题挺多的。

There are many issues.

比如普拉格输棋后就会变得保守，我注意到，他输掉一盘后，接下来几盘都不敢冒险，反应也变得特别谨慎，下棋速度明显变慢，因为输棋影响了他的信心，这种不自信直接体现在犹豫不决和时间管理混乱上。

Like when Prag becomes defensive after a loss, like, sometimes I noticed, like, when he loses a game in the next couple of games, he doesn't take much risk, and he used to react defensively and also slow down a lot before taking decisions because the loss has had some impact on his confidence, and that is reflecting in hesitations in taking decisions and poor time management.

所以我去问安南，我该怎么介入？

So when I spoke with Anand, like, how should I intervene?

是在比赛期间就提醒他，避免他在后续对局里再犯同样的错误？

Should I intervene during the tournament so that in the subsequent games, he doesn't make these mistakes?

还是等比赛结束后再跟他好好谈一谈这个问题？

Or should I wait for the tournament to conclude and then have a talk on this top subject?

他说，作为棋手，犯错是难免的。

He said, like, as a player, he will be making mistakes.

他还很年轻，正在成长阶段。

He's very young and upcoming.

所以，比赛期间最好别谈这些问题，等比赛结束后再处理更合适。

So it's better not to discuss these issues in the middle of a tournament and rather wait for the tournament to complete and handle these issues.

而且这样做也很有帮助，因为我们没有只盯着负面问题不放。

And so this has been very helpful as well because we are not emphasizing on the negatives alone.

因为在比赛中间一味纠正所谓的弱点，反而容易让这些毛病变得更根深蒂固。

Because when we try to correct the so called weaknesses in the middle of a tournament, we can end up easily reinforcing them instead.

所以，这么做是对的。

So by Right.

我们事后会把问题掰开揉碎，细细讨论。

We talking about it, discussing it in threadbare detail.

我觉得这种方式特别有用。

So that is something I found very useful.

还有就是开局的选择，该采取什么策略，以及怎么研究对手的对局来找出他们的短板。

And also, like, regarding the opening choices, what should be the approach, and how we study the opponent's games to identify their weaknesses.

他有很多这样的例子，也分享了不少自己的亲身经历。

So there are many instances he has and he also has shared many of his own experiences.

每当我跟他讨论关于普拉格可能出的问题，他都会说，是啊。

Like, he has had like, whenever I discuss a problem about a possible problem about Prag, he will say, like, yeah.

我以前也遇到过类似的情况。

I've been through similar situation.

就像在重温他的过去一样。

It's like reliving his past.

没错。

Right.

所以连我自己也放松下来了，和他聊完之后，我就不太担心了。

So it just becomes my nerves as well, so I don't worry too much after discussing with him.

普拉格当然成就斐然，但最近他接连战胜马格努斯·卡尔森，这件事在圈内引起了很大轰动。

And and Prag, of course, he's has a litany of achievements, but one that made a lot of news was his recent victories against Magnus Carlsen.

作为教练，第一次看到这种情况时，你是什么感觉？

As a trainer, what did it feel like the first time it happened?

那时候你震惊了吗？

Were shocked or not really at that point?

好的。

Okay.

比赛开始的时候，印度那边早上十点半，一直打到凌晨三点。

So when it happened, the tournaments started at 10:30 in the morning in the night in India, and they went till, like, 3AM in the morning.

我还带过很多其他棋手，也有几个固定的学生来自美国。

And I also worked with many other players, and I have some regular students from The US as well.

所以我每天早上五点得起来给他们上课。

So for whom I take lessons at five in the morning Indian time.

那时候我还在为新英格兰国际象棋出版社写一本计算方法的书，手头一堆活儿。

For at that time, I was also writing this calculation book for New England Chess, and I had a lot of work to be done.

所以我们提前决定，在比赛前的十到十五天里，每天凌晨三点才睡，好让普拉格比赛时精神饱满，不犯困。

So we decided before the tournament that for around ten ten to fifteen days, we'll be sleeping at three in the morning so that Prag will be ready and he will not be sleepy while playing these guys.

就在他要对战马格努斯的那天，他早上已经赢了阿罗尼安，还和哈里什弈和了。

So on that particular day when he was supposed to play Magnus, he had already beaten Aronian in the first round on that day and the Drew with Harish, I think.

那场比赛是他当天的第四盘，我之后就去睡觉了。

And so this was the fourth game of the day, and I went to bed.

我在微信上祝他一切顺利，然后就去睡了。

I just wished him all the best in WhatsApp and went to bed.

五点醒来，发现他已经赢了马格努斯。

Woke up at five and saw that he had beaten Magnus.

他第一次赢安南的时候，我睡得死死的，真的一点都不知道。

So the first time he beat Anand, I was sound asleep, I could say.

不过看到他做到了，我特别高兴，这让他有了信心，知道自己能挑战世界顶尖高手。

But really happy that it happened, and it has given him confidence that he can take on the best place in the world.

我们早知道他迟早能达到这个高度，只是没想到来得这么快。

We knew that he will reach this point, but I'm just happy it came much earlier.

是啊，太不可思议了。

Yeah, just amazing.

当然，一个有抱负的孩子，总会梦想自己未来能达成什么成就。

And do you ever obviously an ambitious kid is going to have dreams about things they can achieve in their career.

作为教练，你有没有想象过，五年后，普拉格会变成什么样？

As a trainer, do you ever let your mind wander about like what could happen with someone like Prag, say five years down the road?

当然，大家都会提到他，觉得他未来有希望冲击世界冠军。

Obviously, he gets mentioned as a potential world championship contender in the future.

是的。

Yeah.

我们的理念一直都是这样，哪怕普拉格纳南还小的时候，我就强调，别想太多结果，专注当下做的事，专注自己每一分努力。

Like, our philosophy, like, even when Praggnan was young, I remember, like, my philosophy is always just focus on the work, The work we do, basically, like, on the effort we put on making ourselves better.

这一直是我自己当棋手时，生活中方方面面的首要原则。

And this has always been the priority in my own playing career in all aspects of my life.

我只管尽全力去做，不太去纠结最终会怎样。

I just try to do my best, not really worry too much about the consequences.

我们能掌控的事情其实有限，大多数事情都多少超出了我们的掌控。

There are only so many things in our control, and most of the things are slightly beyond our control.

所以我们要把精力和注意力，集中在那些真正能由我们主导的事情上。

We have to focus our energy concentration on things which we do, which are in our control.

只有这些，我们才能真正产生影响。

We can influence them effectively.

所以这一直就是我的理念。

So this has been my philosophy.

我记得普拉格纳十岁的时候，还没成为世界上最年轻的国际大师，那时候我和普拉格纳南达——他当时也是个小孩——一起办了十天的训练营。

So I remember when Praggnan was 10 years old before he became world's youngest international master, so myself and Praggnanandhaa, who was also a young kid back then, we were having a training camp for ten days.

在训练营里，普拉格纳表现得特别出色。

And in the camp, Praggnan did extremely well.

那时候他已经拿到了两个国际大师序分。

So he had two IIM norms at that point.

我就跟他说，普拉格，你的分析能力真的很棒。

So I just told him, like, Prag, you are analyzing very well.

我觉得你没必要专门为了拿国际大师序分去下棋。

So I don't think you should be playing for I'm norm.

只要你用心，完全有机会拿到特级大师序分。

You can even get a GM norm if you put your mind into it.

结果十岁的普拉格马上问我：你不是一直跟我说别太在意结果，别为了序分或等级分去下棋吗？怎么现在又让我去冲特级大师序分了？

Then 10 year old Prag immediately asked me, like, you have been telling me not to focus on results, not to play for norms or ratings all these years, and now you are asking me to play for a GM norm.

那我该怎么办？

What should I do?

这一直是我们坚持的理念。

So this has been our philosophy.

他就是想成为世界冠军。

Like, he wants to be the world champion.

我从他很小的时候就看出来了，但这种野心主要是为了激励自己拼命努力，因为你真的得付出极大的努力。

I know it from from when he was very young, but that is that ambition is mainly to motivate oneself to work very hard because you have to work extremely hard

如果你想成为世界冠军的话。

if you want to become a world champion.

这条路没有捷径可走。

There's there are no shortcuts to this.

他必须准备好去挑战顶尖棋手，不能害怕他们。

So and he has to be ready to fight with the best players, not be afraid of them.

他得相信自己一路上能赢过这些人。

He has to believe that he can beat these guys along the way.

所以，我其实不太花

So, I don't really spend

时间去想未来可能会发生什么。

time oneself thinking what could happen in the future.

好的。

Okay.

对，这是个很好的心态。我记得之前采访里你提到过，你练习正念，也鼓励普拉格南南达这样做。我觉得这种专注于当下的方式挺好的。

Yeah, that's a good attitude and I know we discussed in a prior interview that you're a practitioner of mindfulness and encourage that with Praggnanandha as well, so I think that's a good sort of focus on the now type approach.

现在，拉梅什，我们还有很多问题要回答，所以咱们直接开始回答听众和播客支持者们的问题吧。

Now, Ramesh, we've got a lot of questions to get to, so let's hop into them from listeners, from supporters of the podcast.

这个问题来自乔纳森·埃文斯，他来信说，我刚买了你们那本《提升你的残局计算能力》。

This one is from Jonathan Evans, who writes in and he writes, I just bought your book, Improve Your Chest Calculation.

我很期待读这本书。

I look forward to reading it.

他的第一个问题是，你提到这是一套系列书籍，你们计划出几本？

So his first question is, you mentioned that it's a series of books and how many in the series are you planning?

第二个问题是，你打算做一套Chessable课程吗？

And the second is, do you plan to do a Chessable course?

是的。

Yeah.

谢谢你，Jonathan。

Thank you, Jonathan.

对。

Yeah.

这是这套书的第一本，我希望接下来还能再出版两三本，继续这个系列。

So this is the part one of a series, and hopefully, I'll publish two or maybe even three more books on this series.

我之所以先写计算这块，是因为我长期跟不同世代的棋手合作，积累了不少经验，想把自己的见解分享出来。

The first one I wanted to start with calculation because I have a lot of experience working with different generation of players in this area, and I wanted to share my views on this subject.

我也打算基于这本新书，做一个关于计算的Chessable课程。

And I'm also planning to do a Chessable course on the same topic, the calculation based on the new Chess calculation book.

希望很快就能上线。

So hopefully, it will also be out soon.

那太好了。

That's great.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这个课程对Chessable来说很合适，因为这些计算练习，很多人可能会反复回来练习，才能真正体会到其中的细微之处。

I think it's a good course for Chessable because a lot of these calculation exercises, people may want to come back to more than once in order to appreciate all the nuances.

当然，里面还有很多可以推演的变着。

And of course, there's a lot of variations that one could play through.

我知道这类事情很难定具体时间，但你能不能给个大概的估计？Ramesh，这个Chessable课程什么时候能推出？

So do you have any I know that these things, it can be tough to put a timeline on them, but do you have any rough estimate of when the Chessable course would be coming, Ramesh?

我也不太确定，因为我一向不太能按时兑现给出版方的承诺。

I'm not really sure because I'm not so good at keeping up the timeline I promised to the publishers.

以前就发生过好几次了。

It doesn't happen a couple of times in the past.

主要原因是我一直在带很多棋手，占去了我大部分时间。

The main reason is, like, I'm constantly working with many players, and it is taking up most of my time.

所以我几乎没有时间把想法整理成书的形式。

So I hardly get time to put down my thoughts in a book format.

第一本书我花了整整一年才写完。

So I took like an year to write the first book.

虽然棋局我都用引擎分析过了，但加上文字说明、反复编辑、再核对变着，实在抽不出足够时间，所以真不敢给任何时间承诺。

Even though I had the positions analyzed and checked with the engines, just adding text part and editing and checking the lines with the engines, I was not getting sufficient time to do that, so I'm really afraid to give a timeline.

不过Chessable的课程，我觉得已经在推进了。

But the Chessable course, I think the discussions are on.

希望能在接下来六个月内完成。

Hopefully, I hope in the before next six months, I should be able to complete it.

然后大概一年后，系列的第二本书应该也能推出，希望如此。

And then possibly in a year from now, the second book of the series should be out, hopefully.

太好了。

Excellent.

我们知道你特别忙，所以完全理解，也正因如此，我们更感激你愿意抽出时间参加这次访谈，尤其是在训练营开始前夕。

Well, we know you're extremely busy, so it's totally understandable, and makes me appreciate all the more you're taking the time to do this interview, especially on the eve of this, training camp, as we mentioned.

另一个问题是迈克尔·奥拉德提出的，他说，你之前提到过对普拉格南安达的指导，那你是怎么建议学生应对那些情绪上很难接受的失利的呢？

So, another question is from Michael Ollard, who asks, he says, how do you advise yours, and you actually discussed this a bit about Praggnanandha, but he says, how do you advise your students to handle analyzing emotionally difficult losses?

我经常发现，分析这样的失利特别让人沮丧，因为等于重新经历那场棋局带来的痛苦。

Often I find analyzing losses like this to be very disheartening since I'm reliving pain from the game.

这些失利是不是最值得深入分析的，毕竟它们影响这么大？

Are these the most important to analyze deeply since they had such a big impact?

还是说，简单过一遍就好，免得让自己太泄气？

Or is it okay to do a quick analysis so as not to be discouraged?

作为业余棋手，这肯定不是件让人开心的事，但我确实想进步。

As an amateur, it's definitely not a fun thing to do, but I am motivated to improve.

是的。

Yeah.

这是个非常重要、非常关键的问题。

That's a really, really important question.

根据我作为棋手、教练，现在又作为作者的经验，我发现大多数关于国际象棋提升的书，都是由棋手从棋手的角度写的。

I think generally, like what I have seen in my experience as a player and subsequently as a coach and now as an author is most of the Chess Improvement books are written either by players from a player's perspective.

假设世界冠军写一本书，他从自己作为棋手的角度来写。

Now let's say world champion writing a book, and he writes from his perspective as a player.

他实力超强，但早就忘了自己从初学者一路走来的过程。

He is extremely strong, and he has largely forgotten the journey which he has had from the formative years.

所以，他职业生涯初期那些特别重要的问题，现在可能根本想不起来了。

So most of the issues which were very important in the initial stages of his career, he probably does not even remember them.

我在和阿南德聊天的时候，也见过这种情况。

And this I have seen even when I discussed with Anand.

有些问题对他来说简直像天方夜谭。

Many issues like he will it will be like very alien issue to him.

但我敢肯定，他年轻时刚起步那会儿，这些问题可是天天困扰着他。

But I'm sure like when he was young and upcoming, these issues were occupying significant space in his mind.

总的来说，我觉得国际象棋的心理层面是个被严重忽视的领域。

So in general, I feel chess psychology is something a very largely ignored area.

棋手们在自己的书里几乎从不谈这个。

The players are not going into it in their books.

作者们并没有深入探讨这些问题。

The authors are not dwelling too deeply on these issues.

如果哪位作者碰了这个话题，他自己通常也不是特别出色的棋手。

If some author is touching this issue, he's generally not very accomplished as a player himself.

所以他们其实根本没真正理解这些问题，就急着写出来了。

So they really actually don't understand the issue in a way they should have been before writing these issues.

我觉得这一点对不同层次的棋类训练方式能产生重大影响。

So I feel this is one area that can make significant impact on how chest training needs to be done at different levels.

我希望通过我在Chessable上的书籍和课程，能分享我的看法——我并不声称这是唯一正确的答案或万能解决方案，但我希望它能开启一个过程，让棋手和教练们开始重视这个问题。

And I hope with my books on chessable courses, I'll be able to share my view of things, which I'm not claiming to be correct or a one stop solution for everything, but I hope it'll start this process where the players, the coaches, they start giving the importance it deserves.

关于如何应对失望，我认为这是阻碍许多棋手发挥潜力的关键因素之一。

And regarding the handling of disappointments, I think this is one of the key areas which prevents many players from reaching their potential.

我花了很多时间思考，也和不同层次、不同世代、不同地区的棋手深入交流过，发现这个问题其实都是一样的。

So I have thought a lot and discussed a lot with players from different levels and different generations, different geographical locations, and the issue seems to be the same.

人天生就不喜欢输，而不喜欢输的原因可能有很多。

Humans simply don't like to lose, and the reason why we don't like to lose could be many.

一个很常见的因素，是来自他人的负面反应。

One very common factor is the possible negative reaction from others.

我们担心输了棋会被人看不起。

We fear like others will judge us poorly when we lose games.

我总是告诉学生，别在这上面太纠结。

And I try to tell my students not to worry about worry on this aspect.

你会惊讶地发现，其实没那么严重。

And it'll be surprising.

我们每个人都希望被人尊重，不希望被人轻视。

Every most of us, we want to be looked up, and we don't want to be looked down upon.

所以我们总以为一输棋，别人就会对我们评头论足，这就是一种恐惧。

So we imagine that when we lose games, others are judging us negatively, and this is one fear.

第二个是输棋可能对积分造成的负面影响。

The second is the possible effect, negative impact it can have on our rating.

比如，对于K值较高的棋手，输一盘棋积分可能掉二十、三十分。

Like, when we lose games, the rating can drop maybe twenty, thirty points for players with high k factor.

所以这是他们下棋时也一直在想的事，甚至看到对手配对时，就会想：‘要是输给他，我的积分就要掉二十、三十分了。’

So this is another factor they are constantly thinking about even while playing the game, even when they see the pairings that if I lose to this guy, I'm going to lose twenty, thirty points.

这种念头总在脑子里挥之不去，导致他们根本没法专心研究棋盘上的局面。

So this is always playing in the back of their mind, and they are not able to focus on the position in their game.

所以学会应对失望，非常重要。

So handling disappointments is extremely important.

为此，我会建议学生：这其实是个专注力的问题。

For this, I try to suggest my students like it's a matter of focus.

别总想着可能会出什么错、输了会怎样，而是把注意力和精力都集中在当前这盘棋上，这样才可能做出更高质量的分析，而这也无形中能减少像现在这样频繁出现的糟糕结果。

Instead of focusing on what could go wrong and what can happen if things go wrong, instead if we can focus our concentration, if we can focus on our energy into the position in front of us, then probably we can come up with analysis, better quality of analysis, and this in a way will guard us against negative results happening as often as they are happening currently.

还有一点很重要：当事情不如意时，我们的反应方式同样关键。

And the other thing is when things go wrong, how we react is also extremely important.

感到失望是正常的，没什么大不了。

It is very important disappointments are fine.

难过、受伤都没关系，但不能因此动摇自己的信心。

Getting hurt, getting sad is okay, but it should happen in a way it doesn't affect our confidence.

输了之后，别马上就怀疑自己。

We should not start doubting ourselves after every loss.

难过、不舒服都没关系，但赶紧收拾心情，试着放下，转移注意力——如果是孩子，可以看个动画片，或者看部漫威电影，随便什么都行。

We can feel sad, we can feel bad, it's okay, but quickly collect your thoughts, try to forget it, distract your mind, maybe watch some if it's a child, you can watch some cartoons or you can watch some Marvel movies, whatever.

想办法转移注意力。

Try to distract your mind.

别再想着那场痛苦的失利。

Stop thinking about the painful loss.

别在脑子里一遍遍重放那个场景。

Don't relive it again and again in your mind.

别过度分析。

Try not to overanalyze.

别总去想那些你错过的最佳下法。

Try not to think all the possible good continuations you missed.

有些人输了就会跟别人聊，打电话给所有人，把棋局翻出来，说：‘你看这个位置，我犯了个错误。’

Stuff, talking about this to others, I've seen some players when they lose, they call everyone and show the game and say, In this position, I made this mistake.

所以最好的办法就是赶紧把输球的事抛到脑后，专心做点别的事，这完全做得到，然后把注意力放到下一场比赛上。

So it's better to quickly forget those losses simply by concentrating on some other activity, this is possible, and then we have to focus on the next game.

所以，失望归失望，但别伤自信，这才是关键。

So it is disappointments without affecting confidence is the key.

明白了。

Okay.

这建议太好了。

That's great advice.

对。

Yeah.

而且这种事是永远躲不掉的。

And something that never goes away.

每个人迟早都得面对。

Everyone has to deal with it at one point or another.

明白了。

Okay.

我们还有另一个问题来自

And we've got another question from.

感谢大家支持这个播客。

Thanks for supporting the pod.

他问，通过你的执教经验，你有哪些重要的成长领悟？

And he asks, what are some key improvement realizations that you've had through your coaching experience?

他还问，你可以选其中一个回答，拉梅什，职业大师们常犯哪些计算错误？

And he also asks, and you can pick either one of these, Ramesh, what are some common calculation mistakes that even grandmasters tend to make?

对于大师来说，我见过一种情况，他们往往一上来就直接走第一个冒出来的着法，这非常容易出问题。

With grandmasters also, one I have seen, there's a tendency to just straight away go into the first move that comes to their head is very, very pulling.

因为他们太强了，所以总想依赖直觉。

Because but in that case, like they are trying to trust their intuition because they are so strong.

对高水平棋手而言，直觉其实很少能真正引导他们走向正确的方向。

In a strong player's case, the intuition is rarely guiding them in the right direction.

很多人建议要相信直觉，但我觉得这主要适用于高水平棋手，对初学者并不适用，因为初学者的直觉还没发展成熟，所以低水平时更应该依赖计算结果，除非时间紧迫，那时才不得不靠直觉。

They try to and has suggested many times to trust our instincts, but I think that applies largely to stronger players, not at the lower level, because at the lower level, the instincts are not so well developed, so well evolved, so it's better to rely more on the result of the analysis at the lower level, except in case of time trouble where we have to rely on intuition.

但在高水平上，他们会顺着直觉的引导来调整自己的计算方式。

But at the higher level, they can guide their calculation in the way intuition takes them.

关于提升的体会，有一点是：别把自己局限在某个小标签里。

Regarding improvement realizations, one thing is, like, try not to categorize yourself into one small circle.

我见过很多棋手，哪怕才下了两年，就给自己贴上标签，说我是个局面型棋手，或者我是战术型棋手、进攻型棋手之类的。

Like, I've seen many players, even at their former two years, they brand themselves as I'm a positional player or I'm a tactical player, I'm an attacking player kind of brands.

一旦你给自己贴了标签，接下来就不可避免地只会去下符合这个标签的局面。

Because once you brand yourself, then what will inevitably follow is you will try to play only those kind of positions.

比如我如果自称是进攻型棋手，那我每盘棋都非得进攻不可。

Like, if I call myself an attacking player, then I try to keep attacking in every game I play.

连平时准备时，我也只看进攻型的对局。

And even in my preparation, I will see only attacking games.

学开局的时候，也只挑那些进攻性的变例来研究。

And when I try to learn openings, I will try to choose only attacking variations.

当我们只盯着棋盘上的某一个方面时，时间一长，其他所有方面都会变弱。

And when we focus only on one aspect of the game, over a period of time, we'll become weak in all other areas.

所以这一点非常重要。

So it's very important.

在成长阶段，我们不该把自己定型为某一种类型。

We don't brand ourselves into one category in the formative years.

我们可以说，我现在喜欢进攻，擅长进攻型棋风，但同时也不妨碍去探索其他方面。

We can say, I like to attack, I'm good in attacking chess for now, and then that leaves the stage open for learning other areas as well.

我们不该把其他可能性都关上。

We don't close those other doors.

是的，这确实是很好的建议。

Yeah, that's good advice for sure.

对，而且很有意思。

Yeah, and it's interesting.

我年轻的时候觉得自己是个进攻型棋手，但现在年纪大了，已经不再这么想了。

I felt like I was an attacking player when I was younger, and now that I'm older, I don't feel that way anymore.

但我确实看到很多人过于执着于某种类型的局面，这确实会限制自己的发展。

But I do see people try to steer too much into certain types of positions, and yeah, it can be limiting for sure.

关于候选着法这个话题，我想跟听众们分享一下，我在这方面写了很多内容，也提升了自己的计算能力。

And on the topic of candidate moves, you just want to share with listeners that you write extensively about it and improve your chest calculation.

这里面确实有不少很好的建议。

And, there's definitely some great advice there.

顺便提一下，和所有New in Chess的书一样，Ramesh大师的这本书在官网有免费试读章节，我会附上链接，方便大家去查看。

And we should mention, as is always the case with, New in Chess books, there's a free excerpt of Grandmaster Ramesh's book on the New in Chess website, and I'll link to that so that, listeners can check that out.

我们还有个听众的问题要问你，Ramesh，来自Deepankar Ghosh，他问到了布拉格，但我们之前已经聊得差不多了。

We have another listener question for you, Ramesh, which is, from Deepankar Ghosh, and he writes, he asked about Prague, but we've already gleaned a lot of insights about Prag.

那我就重点回答他问题的第二部分：他说，Divya Deshmukh最近的比赛表现很不错。

So I'll focus on, the second part of his question, which is he says, Divya Deshmukh has been doing well in her recent tournaments.

对于年轻棋手来说——我不是年轻棋手了。

For any youngsters, I'm not one myself.

从她最近的成功里，你能学到哪些品质或者训练方法？

What are some qualities or training methods that you can learn from from her recent success?

我其实也和Divya Deshmukh一起训练过很多年，现在她主要跟教练Srinathi Narayan合作。

I think I worked with I worked with Divya Deshmukh as well for many years, and currently, is working with the coach Srinathi Narayan.

根据我的经验，我看到像Divya这样的年轻棋手，其实他们自己也还年轻，所以能清楚地意识到这一点。

And from my experience, I have seen, like, even Divya I mean, all the young players who are doing well because has identified himself as a young player himself.

所以我会从这个角度来谈。

So I will talk from that in that context.

对年轻棋手来说，第一点，就像我之前说的，别把自己局限在某一种类型里。

So for young players, it's important to one, as I mentioned before, don't brand yourself into one category.

如果你觉得自己在某个方面有优势，就多花时间强化它，建立信心，积累经验，然后再慢慢拓展其他方面。

If you feel that you are good in a particular area, work more in that area, be more confident, gain experience, and then start working on other areas as well.

这就像你才16岁，还没学过开车，就不能说‘我开车不行’。

So it is something like if you are 16 year old, you have not yet learned how to drive a car, So you cannot say I'm weak in driving.

对吧？

Right?

你根本还没开始学开车，谈什么强弱呢？

We have simply not even made an effort to learn those learn driving.

所以你要保持开放的心态，随时准备学习棋艺的每一个方面。

So you have to keep yourself open that you can learn any aspect of the game.

如果你真的感兴趣，就花足够的时间和精力去学。

If you have sufficient interest, invest sufficient time and energy into learning it.

国际象棋的大部分技能都是可以学会的。

Chess is a learnable skill for a very large extent.

所以我们得相信这一点，努力掌握游戏的各个方面，尤其是那些让你不舒服或不喜欢的部分。

So we have to believe in this and try to learn all aspects of the game, especially areas which we don't feel comfortable or we don't like.

比如有些玩家总说，残局太无聊了。

For example, there are players who say like, end games are boring.

我不喜欢残局。

I don't like.

我最讨厌残局了。

I hate end games.

对于这样的玩家，更需要专门花功夫去攻克残局。

So it's very important for such players to make special effort into learning end games.

如果你总是回避某些领域，迟早会在这些地方掉队，成长也会因此受限。

So if we start avoiding areas, then we will become weak in those areas, and our growth will be curtailed after some time.

所以这是我想要说的一点，你得花时间。

So that is one thing I would say, and you have to invest time.

如果你还年轻，生活中责任还不多，只要这是你的热情所在，就有条件多花时间提升棋艺。

If you're young, you don't have too many responsibilities in your life yet, so you can afford to spend more time on your chess improvement if that is your passion.

别总想着走捷径。

So try not to have any shortcuts.

另外，别把学习的责任全丢给教练或书本。

And also, one other suggestion is not to outsource your learning to coaches or books.

棋艺得靠你自己去琢磨和掌握。

You have to learn the game through your own effort.

这可以通过在复盘或解题时不断提出关键问题来实现。

That can be done by asking critical questions when you are looking at games or solving positions.

问问自己：这步棋为什么这么下？背后是哪条原则？有没有计算的依据？

Ask yourself why this move is played, what principle they are trying to apply, are there any calculation behind this move?

多问关键问题，尽量自己找出答案。

So try to ask critical questions and try to provide solutions yourself.

这种自主学习同样极其重要。

This self learning is also extremely important.

是的。

Yeah.

我很喜欢你书里讲的那个小故事，毕竟你是世界上最有名的教练之一。

I enjoyed your anecdote in the book where obviously you're one of the most renowned trainers in the world.

你提到，有些新学员会来找你，觉得因为你名气大，只要每周跟你上一次课，水平就能提升，但你得跟他们解释清楚：不管你是谁，不管你的教练是谁，真正带来进步的，还是靠自己下功夫。

So you mentioned that sometimes new students will come to you and they feel that because of your stature as a trainer, they can just work with you once a week and then they'll get better, you know, but you have to explain to them that it doesn't, no matter who you are, no matter who your trainer is, it's the person doing the work on their own that will lead to most of the progress.

对。

Yeah.

这确实是现实，不过话说回来，人们还是享受这个过程的。

Sad truth, but I mean, people enjoy the process.

拉梅什，我们得再休息一次，插播赞助商广告，之后我想再聊聊你的书，也想听听你对那些候选人的看法。

Ramesh, we need to take one more break to hear from our sponsors, and then I'd like to discuss the book a little more and hopefully get your thoughts on the candidates too.

《治疗》修订扩充版的视频内容，是由2018年美国冠军、特级大师萨姆·尚克兰德亲自制作的。

Treatment, revised and expanded, and the video presentation is done by none other than 2,018 US champion grandmaster Sam Shankland.

你猜怎么着？

And guess what?

他们提供一个免费的一小时视频，由尚克兰德本人讲解‘双重弱点’这个原则。

They have a free one hour video that you can check out on the principle of two weaknesses done by Shankland himself.

这只是Chessable.com众多资源中的一个。

So that's just one of the many offerings from chessable.com.

他们还不断推出新的开局和残局战术课程，全部都搭载了他们独有的Move Trainer技术，帮你巩固所学内容。

They also, of course, are constantly dropping new opening, endgame tactics courses, all of which feature their proprietary Move Trainer technology to help you, remember what you learn.

所有提到的链接，和往常一样，都在节目简介里。

So the links for anything mentioned, as always, are in the show description.

别忘了去Chessable.com看看他们的残局策略和其他新内容。

So be sure to check out chessable.com for endgame strategy and all of their other new material.

我们回来了。

And we are back.

在提升棋艺计算能力方面，书里有很多精彩内容，我挑了几段觉得挺有意思的话，想请你展开聊聊。

And there's so much good stuff in improving your chess calculation, but I did highlight a few quotes that I thought it might be fun for you to just sort of expound upon.

所以，Ramesh，我念一两段话给你听，你接着聊聊看法，怎么样？

So, are you up for me reading a quote or two, Ramesh, and then you could share, maybe elaborate on it a little bit?

当然可以。

Sure.

太好了。

Excellent.

有一件事让我特别在意，你说得对。

So, one thing that caught my attention is you're right.

我亲自训练过一些评级在1400到1800之间的棋手，让他们分析出过去2200到2400评级的棋手都做不到的变化。

I have personally trained players with ratings in the range of 1,400 to 1,800 to analyze the variations that players of previous generations with a rating range of 2,200 to 2,400 were unable to do.

这就是为什么我那些九到十四岁的学生能这么快成为国际大师甚至特级大师。

This is one of the reasons my students in the nine to fourteen age group can quickly become international masters or grandmasters.

只要训练得当，他们完全能掌握远超以往认知的深度分析能力。

With proper training, they can be taught to analyze at a much higher level than was thought possible earlier.

可惜的是，我们给自己设下的思维限制，也会随着年龄增长而加深。

Unfortunately, the limitations we set on our mind also grow with our age.

是的

Yeah.

所以我觉得，就像我之前说的，他把计算能力视为一个关键突破口，只要在这上面有重大提升，就有机会成为特级大师。

So I think, like, as I mentioned, like, he identified calculation as one area where if he can make significant progress, he can become a grandmaster.

我年轻刚学棋的时候，计算能力特别强。

And I was very good in calculation when I was young, when I was new to the game.

那一度是我的核心优势之一。

That was one of my core strength areas.

但当我读到一些特级大师的分析，尤其是约翰·纳恩的那本书时——

But when I read the things like a grandmaster and subsequently the book by John Nunn.

《实用国际象棋秘诀》。

Secrets of Practical Chess.

《实用国际象棋秘诀》。

Secrets of Practical Chess.

他还把那些观点推向了更深的层次。

He also takes quote suggestions to the next level.

当时有一些局限性。

There were some limitations.

他的思维方式里还有一些可以改进的地方。

There were some corrections that can be made in his way of thinking.

后来在多列夫斯基和克拉森科合著的《进攻与防守》一书中，克拉森科写了一篇叫《丛林漫游》的文章。

And subsequently, in the book Attack and Defense by Dorevsky, Krasenko had written an article Wandering in the Jungle.

在这篇文章里，他也提出了自己对这些问题的看法。

In that article also, he tries to give his own view on these issues.

我觉得这是个在孩子很小的时候就能好好培养的方面。

I think this is one area where we can work properly at a very young age.

只要训练得法，进步完全可以很快。

If we train properly, it is possible to improve very quickly.

我带的很多孩子，八九岁、十岁左右，就能在脑子里默想整页的棋路分析，连棋子都不用动。

Many of the young children I work with, even when they are like eight, nine, 10 years old, they can start visualizing pages of analysis in their head without moving pieces.

当他们能自己做到这些的时候，完全是靠自己的努力实现的。

When they are able to do this and see for themselves, it is through their own effort they are able to do these things.

这能极大增强他们的自信心。

It gives a tremendous boost to their confidence.

所以这就是为什么普拉格10岁就成为国际大师，12岁就成为特级大师的原因——因为他亲眼见证了自己大脑的潜力。

So that's one of the reasons why Prag became an IIM at the age of 10, a GM at the age of 12, because he has seen for himself what his mind is capable of doing.

还有那些常见的自我设限，比如‘我不擅长这个’。

And many of the typical limitations one imposes, like, I'm not good in this.

‘我不擅长那个’。

I'm not good in that.

所以我教他们，只要你愿意学，就一定能学会，但前提是得下功夫。

So I try to teach them, like, whatever you want to learn, you can learn, but you need to put the effort.

我觉得，这正是我作为教练能够成功的关键原因之一。

I think this is one of my key reasons for being a successful coach, I would say.

所以，所有年轻的孩子们，别给自己设限。

So for all the young children out there, don't set limitations.

突破自己的边界。

Push your limits.

根本没有什么限制。

There are no limits.

限制只存在于你的脑子里。

It's only in your mind.

明白了。

Okay.

那对于年纪更大的听众呢，拉梅什？

And what about for our older listeners, Ramesh?

您想对他们说什么？

What would you say to them?

对于成年学习者来说，这个问题尤其重要。

For older things like older adult improvers, this is very serious topic, I would say.

就像我之前说的，心理因素常常被忽视，人们只关注技术层面的提升。

Again, as I mentioned earlier, the psychology is very largely ignored, and people see only improvement in terms of technical things.

比如，我计算能力不行。

Like, I'm not good in calculation.

所以，如果我计算能力变强了，我就成了一个好选手。

So if I become good in calculation, then I'll become a good player.

我在进攻方面并不擅长。

I'm not good in attack.

如果我能把进攻练好了，我就成了一个好选手。

If I become good in attack, I'll become a good player.

他们就是这么看待问题的。

So this is how they view things.

但如果我们不深入心理层面，那到底是什么阻碍了我们在想提升的领域取得进步？

But if we don't go into the psychology, what prevented us from becoming good in these areas where we want to grow?

比如，我计算不够好，我就想提高计算能力。

For example, if I'm not calculating well, I want to improve my calculation.

在我职业生涯的某个阶段，我有没有投入足够的努力？

Have I put enough effort earlier in my career at any point of time?

比如说，我十岁的时候，或者十到十五岁，或者十五到二十岁之间，不管哪个阶段。

Let's say when I was 10 year old or 10 to 15 year old or 15 to 20 year old, whatever.

所以，我早年有没有花足够的时间去提升计算能力呢？

So had I invested time in earlier part of my career to make progress in calculation or not?

这是第一个问题。

That is one thing.

第二个问题是，如果没有，那我们现在就像个从来没开过车的十六岁少年。

And second, if not, then we are still like that 16 year old who has never tried how to drive.

我们正处在这样的状态里。

We are in that situation.

那么，随着年龄增长，我们可能会遇到哪些限制呢？

So now what what could be the possible limitations as we grow older?

第一，年轻的时候，我们对生活的整体经验很少，也没经历过多少挫折。

One, when young, we have very less experience about life in general and not many negative experiences we have gone through.

所以心态特别开放，特别自信，有时候甚至有点自负，但这些在年轻时都是好事，因为你对未来充满希望，觉得只要下定决心，就一定能做成——毕竟你还没怎么吃过亏。

So that makes our mind very receptive, very confident, sometimes arrogant, but these are all good when you are young, and you are very hopeful that you can accomplish whatever you set your mind to because you have not had many negative experiences in your life.

年轻的时候，人不会变得悲观。

So you don't become a pessimistic person when you're young.

这种情况真的很少见。

It's really rare.

还没被现实打垮呢。

Haven't been beaten down yet.

对。

Yes.

但随着你阅历增长，经历各种事情，遭遇挫折，在生活和事业中屡屡碰壁，甚至在下棋时也输得不少，这些都会削弱你的自信。

But as you mature in life, have a variety of experiences, go through difficulties, have taken a lot of beatings in your real life, in your career, and possibly in chess as well, then that can moderate our self confidence.

它会慢慢压低你的自信，让你开始给自己设限。

It can have a moderating impact on our self confidence, and we start setting limitations.

我不擅长这个。

I'm not good at this.

我不擅长那个。

I'm not good at that.

我做不到这个。

I cannot do this.

我不喜欢这样。

I don't like this.

所以我们的喜好和厌恶、这些限制，会变得根深蒂固，我们开始真信了。

So our likes and dislikes, our limitations, they become firm, and we start believing them.

我们越相信这些限制，它们就越会成为学习路上的障碍。

And the more we start believing in our limitations, they become barriers in the learning process.

如果我觉得自己不擅长计算，那学计算就会特别难——不是因为我学不会，而是我坚信自己永远学不好。

If I think I'm not good in calculation, then it is very difficult to learn calculation, not because I cannot learn calculation, because I believe I cannot become good.

这就像是给游泳者绑在腿上的石头。

That will always be like a stone tied around a swimmer's leg.

就算你天天练，肌肉练得再结实，石头该拖后腿还是拖后腿。

Even if you practice swimming, you build your muscles, the stone will still do its job.

所以，除非你先把石头解开，否则凭你现在这身力气，不练也能游得更好。

So unless you can untie the stone, and with your current strength, you can swim better without any training.

随着年龄增长，我们给自己建了太多这样的学习障碍。

So the limitations, we build many such barriers to learning as we grow.

想想看，我们开始对自己的记忆力产生怀疑。

Think like we start getting doubts about our memory.

我们开始怀疑了。

We start getting doubts.

都这个年纪了，记性可能不行了。

Maybe at this age, I cannot remember.

都这个年纪了，我觉得学不了了。

At this age, I don't think I can learn.

都这个年纪了，我觉得这事做不了。

At this age, I don't think I can do this.

所以，这些限制，我觉得才是学习最大的障碍。

So, these limitations, I think, will be the major barrier to learning.

明白了。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

这建议真不错。

That's great advice.

我完全同意。

I'd certainly happen yeah.

我就先说到这儿吧，我们还得听下一句引言。

I'll leave it there because we have another quote to get to.

你提到的是劣势原则，我来念一段话。

So, you talk about the drawback principle, and I'll read a quote.

当我们关注对手下一步可能的有利之处并采取应对时，这叫预防性思维；但很多招数也有其不利的一面。

When we pay attention to the good side of a coming move by the opponent and do something about it, we call this prophylactic thinking, But many moves also have a bad side to them.

如果我们能发现对手上一步的弱点，并加以利用，为自己创造优势，

Suppose we can identify the drawback of the opponent's previous move and do something about it to our advantage.

这就叫劣势原则。

This is called the drawback principle.

在牛顿总结出重力定律之前，人类早就享受重力带来的好处了。

Humans had enjoyed the benefits of gravity before Newton codified it.

同样，所有顶尖棋手在对局中都在运用这种思维方式。

Similarly, all the strong chess players have been applying this kind of thinking in their games.

预防性思维在静态局面中特别有用。

Prophylaxis is primarily valuable for static positions.

而利用对手的弱点在动态局面中非常有效。

Drawback is very effective in dynamic positions.

对。

Yeah.

所以，这又是另一个被严重忽视的原则。

So, this is again another principle which has been largely ignored.

人人都在谈预防性思维。

Everyone has spoken about prophylaxis.

只要一说起局面棋，他们最先提到的总是预防性思考。

Whenever they talk about positional chess, the first thing they talk about is prophylactic thinking.

可惜的是，另一面却一直被忽略了。

Unfortunately, the other side of the coin has been largely ignored.

当对手犯错时，因为正如我所说，这些书大多是棋手写的，他们虽然在对局中运用了某些技术性思维方法，却没法把这些提炼成理论。

When opponents make mistake Because as I said, the books are written largely by players, and even though they are applying certain technical things in their different thinking methods when they are thinking in a game, they are not able to make theory out of this.

他们没把整个过程识别出来，也没能解释清楚。

They don't identify the process and explain them.

所以我认为，‘缺点原则’——也就是关注对手上一步的负面效应——和预防性思维同样重要。

So I think this is the drawback principle, which is basically looking for the negative side to the opponent's previous move is also equally important like the prophylactic thinking.

但在预防性思维中，我们通常已经占据了一些优势。

But in prophylactic thinking, like, we already have some advantages going in our favor.

比如在静态局面中，如果我们稍占上风，局面本身就对我们有利，对手能制造反击的手段其实就一两种。

For example, in a static position where we are slightly better, the position is already in our favor, and our opponent can have only one or two ways to create counter play.

如果我们能在恰当的时机发现并遏制这些反击，优势就能维持得更久。

If we can identify those counter play at the right moment and curtail it, then our advantage remains for longer.

一旦对手的反击被化解，我们就能持续改善局面，优势也会越来越大。

Then once our opponent's counter play is negated, we can keep improving our position and advantage grows.

越来越大。

Grows.

但在局面复杂、变化激烈的时候，尤其是在动态局面中，缺陷原则就显得尤为重要。

But in complex situations where things are more forcing in nature, in dynamic positions, I think the principle of drawback is extremely important.

我跟学生解释这个缺陷原则时，会说它就像打空中飞鸟。

And it is the way I explain to my students is like drawback principle is like trying to shoot a bird which is flying in the air.

比如你装弹的时候，鸟还在那个位置。

So for example, like, you load the gun, and when you are loading the gun, the bird will be here.

可你装弹的过程中，鸟早就飞走了。

And when you're in the process of loading, the bird is already flying.

所以你不能瞄准鸟刚才所在的位置，而得跟着它的动向来调整。

And so you cannot be aiming where the bird was when you are at the process of loading the gun.

你装弹的时候，鸟一直在飞，你就得跟着它的轨迹瞄准。

So as you load the gun, the bird is moving, and so you have to aim accordingly.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们得紧跟对手的每一步，他每走一步都会留下漏洞，我们要及时发现他新出现的破绽。

So basically, we have to follow the opponent's move, and with each move, he is making some compromise, and we have to identify the new compromise that has been made.

所以上一轮我们走了一步，带着特定的意图，而对手的回应方式，反而给自己制造了新的问题。

So we would have played a move with a particular idea on the previous turn and for our move, our opponent would have reacted in a particular way, which would have created a new problem for him.

因此，我们需要针对他制造的新问题做出回应。

So we have to react to the new issue he has created.

这就是‘回推’这个概念。

That's the concept of throwback.

很好。

Great.

对。

Yeah.

你在书里举了不少很好的例子。

And you've got some great examples of it in the book.

我觉得对业余棋手来说，一个有用的思考方式就是问：这一步之后，局面哪里变了？

I think a helpful phrasing for amateur players might just be to ask, like, what has changed in the position given the move?

尤其是兵的走法，经常特别值得留意，因为兵不能后退。

And I think that often, like, pawn moves in particular get highlighted because pawns don't move backwards.

接下来，拉梅什，在即将播出的一期播客里，我们的朋友克里斯托弗·沙布里问了一个问题，关于如何区分静态局面和动态局面——这当然也是你书中和其它材料里提到的内容。

And as a follow-up, Ramesh, in a forthcoming podcast, a friend of the pod, Christopher Chabri, had a question about differentiating static and dynamic positions, which of course you talk about in your book, and as well as your other materials.

他特别想知道，比如你在计算一个变化时，你在书里提到，有时候棋手会过早停止计算。

And I think he was particularly interested in, say you're calculating a variation, you talk in your book about there are situations where someone just stops calculating too early.

他们就在某个节点停下，结果错过了对手后续的应对。

You know, they stop at a certain point and then they miss a follow-up for the opponent.

所以克里斯托弗想了解，有没有什么方法能判断，在计算过程中，一旦达到一个静态局面，什么时候可以相对安全地——用引号说——停止继续算下去？

So, Christopher was looking for any sort of guidance about like when in a variation you've reached a static position, how someone can know that it's safe, air quotes, to stop calculating for a given position?

是的。

Yeah.

一种情况是，如果在分析中出现了明显的收益，比如你开始计算一个变化，中途你吃掉了一个兵，那这时候很可能就是该停下的好时机，因为你已经获得了实质回报，可以停下来评估局面了。

So one is like if there is an obvious gain in the analysis, for example, you start calculating a variation and at one point you are gaining material, let's say you win a pawn, then probably that's a good moment to stop the analysis because there is a gain to our whole effort, and then you can stop the analysis there and try to evaluate.

但我们也得注意到，到了更高水平，即使你赢了一个兵，对手的子力在过程中也可能变得非常活跃。

But we also have to see sometimes at the higher level, even if we win a pawn variation, our opponent's pieces become very active in the process.

之前他的子力是被动的，材料上是均势，但经过这一系列变化后，你虽然多了一个兵，对手的子力却变得非常活跃。

Earlier, his pieces were passive and the material was equal, but at the end of the variation, are winning a pawn, but our opponent's pieces become active.

或者，比如你正在对对方王展开进攻，走了几步之后虽然吃了一个兵，但你的攻势却慢了下来，对方的王反而比之前更安全了。

Or, for example, we have a good attack going against the opponent king, and after four seconds of moves, are winning a pawn, but our attack slows down and the opponent's king becomes slightly safer than it was before.

这时候，局面的评估就变得非常关键。你可能会想：‘我多了一个兵，应该占优了’，于是就停止计算。但很多时候，高手会说：‘不对。’

So in such moments, the evaluation becomes very critical, and you can say I'm I won a pawn and stop the analysis and thinking we are better, Or many times, the strong players would say, no.

在这个时候吃兵并不值得，因为对方子力变得更活跃了，或者长远来看会得到补偿——这种补偿很难量化；又或者对方的王更安全了，而我的进攻势头减弱了，所以我根本不想吃这个兵。

Winning the pawn here is not worth it because my opponent's pieces are becoming more active or that will give him compensation in the long run, which is not quantifiable or my opponent's king becomes safer, my attack has slowed down, so I don't want to win this pawn.

所以，评估至关重要——决定在哪儿停下计算，关键就在于你怎么判断局面。

So the evaluation is very critical, and so that means how we evaluate the position, where we stop the analysis is the key.

如果你能自信且合理地判断出局面对自己有利，那就可以放心停下来了。

If you are able to confidently and reasonably correctly evaluate a position in our favor, then that is a good point to stop.

但这种能力必须通过大量实践来培养。

But this is something we need to learn through practice.

另一个判断信号是，强制性的着法快用完了。

And the other thing other indication could be where the forced moves are running out.

所谓强制性着法，就是将军、吃子、威胁，我还会跟学生加上兵的突破。

So forced moves are check capture threat, and I also add pawn breaks with my students.

我也把兵的突破算作强制着法。

I consider pawn breaks as forcing moves as well.

当强制着法快用完的时候，大概就是该停止分析的好时机，因为再往下算，就可能变成我们自己的想象了，而不是真正的强制变化。

So when the forcing moves are running out, that is probably a good moment to stop the analysis because whatever analysis we do beyond that point could be in the realm of our own imagination, and they are not forced.

所以，这可能是另一个该停止分析的信号。

So probably that is another indication where we are to stop the analysis.

明白了。

Okay.

很有帮助的建议。

Great advice.

对。

Yeah.

关于评估技巧的更多内容，接下来会有一期与国际大师尤金·珀尔斯坦和F.的播客。

And for for more on the art of evaluation, there will be forthcoming podcast with Grandmaster Eugene Perlstein and F.

M.

M.

内特·索隆就这个话题讨论过他们的书。

Nate Solon on that topic discussing their book.

拉梅什，我知道你很忙，我们不想占用你太多时间，但还有几个相关问题想请教。

Now, Ramesh, I know you're a busy guy, so we don't want to keep you too much longer, but we've got a couple candidates related questions.

这个节目会在比赛开始前三天上线。

This will come out just three days before it starts.

第一个问题关于阿利雷扎·菲罗贾。

And the first one relates to Alireza Firouzja.

这个问题来自艾iko，他在留言中说：首先，我非常喜欢你们新书的节选，已经通过Forward Chess应用买了整本书。

So, this question is from Eiko, and he writes in and says, First, I'd like to say I enjoyed the excerpt from your new book so much that I bought the book from the Forward Chess app.

读起来真的非常享受。

It's a joy to read it.

我想知道，你对菲罗贾近期的快速进步有什么看法？

My question is, what are your thoughts about Firouzja's rapid improvement?

近几年，我们看到很多勤奋的天才棋手，比如普拉格南、尼哈尔、古吉拉蒂、海马尔等等，他们慢慢突破了2500分，又升到2600分，但一直没能跨过2700分。

In the recent years, we've seen many hardworking talents like Praggnan, Nihal, Gujirathi, Khaimar, and so on, and they have slowly passed 2,500 and then 2,600, yet to pass 2,700.

但菲鲁贾突然超越所有人，达到了2800分。

But Firouzja suddenly passes everyone to reach 2,800.

这背后有什么原因吗？

Is there any explanation for this?

最后，您怎么看阿里雷扎的前景和即将到来的候选人赛？

And lastly, what are your thoughts about Ali Reza's chances and the upcoming candidates?

我觉得这里有几个问题。

I think a couple of issues here.

首先，我觉得把一位棋手和另一位直接比较并不公平，不过我明白外界可能有不同看法。

One, it's not fair in my view to compare one player with the other, but I understand the world views differently on this.

我觉得这没什么。

I'm fine with it.

关于阿里雷扎，他一直以来进步非常惊人，但不幸的是，自从他从伊朗搬到法国、疫情封锁以来，参赛频率就低了很多。

Regarding Alireza, he has been showing phenomenal progress and, unfortunately, has not been as active in the last probably since the lockdown and him moving from Iran to France.

他最近确实没怎么参赛。

He's not been very active.

但我一直有研究他当时进步、冲上2800分时的对局。

But I have been studying his games as well when he was making that progress, reaching the 2,800 mark.

还有一点，像普拉格南、古吉罗兹、凯马尔这些人，也都错过了好几年。

One thing is regarding Praggnan Hill, Gujirouz, Kemal, and so on, they also lost a couple of years.

比如普拉格南，封锁开始的时候他才14岁，等级分已经到2600了。

For example, Prague, when the lockdown happened, he was 14 years old, and he was already 2,600.

等封锁结束，他的分还是原地踏步，没涨上去。

And then when the lockdown was finishing, he's already like a 1,600 with the same rating.

对。

Mhmm.

16岁了，等级分却没变。

16 year old with the same rating.

菲鲁贾的情况也是一样。

So same happened with Firouzja as well.

但菲鲁贾在冲击2800分的时候，中间并没有经历这种长时间的中断。

But when Firouzja was going towards 2,800, he did not have to go through this couple of years break in between.

根据我观察，我们提到的这些棋手，等级分一直在稳步上升。

And from what I have seen, all the players we have mentioned, the rating has been growing steadily.

每参加一场比赛，他们的等级分都在持续提升。

And with every tournament they are playing, they are consistently improve their improving their rating.

所以接下来一年会怎样，还得走着瞧，因为我觉得普拉格南现在才16岁。

So it remains to be seen in the next one year how things pan out because I think Praggnan is 16 years old now.

古吉鲁贾才15岁。

Gujirouzja is just 15.

他们大概还有几年时间，才能达到阿利雷扎现在的成就。

So they probably have, like, a couple of years before they reach what Alireza has done.

如果他们真能冲上2800分，那也不算差。

So if they're able to reach 2,800 levels, then it's not such a bad thing.

阿利雷扎一直是个非常活跃的棋手。

And Alireza has been a phenomenally active player.

他的开局非常出色，而且特别擅长应对复杂局面。

His opening has been very good, and he handles complicated situations very well.

但还是有一些值得关注的地方。

But there are still some areas of concern.

比如他在莱·洛佩兹那边输给了马格努斯，暴露了他棋风中的一些弱点。

For example, his loss against Magnus in a from the wide side of Rai Lopez, it showed some of his shortcomings in the game.

卡斯帕罗夫那盘棋，他几乎没费什么劲就赢了，局面掌控上完全压制了对手。

Like, Carlsen, he just won without much effort, you could say, positionally outplayed him.

所以阿列克谢的棋风里确实有些短板，但他还很年轻。

So there are some areas of concern in Aledisys' arsenal, but he's very young.

我相信他和团队都注意到了这些问题，现在肯定正在针对性地改进。

I'm sure he would have noticed his team would have noticed these issues as well, and they'll be working on those issues.

至于他在候选人赛中的前景，我觉得机会很好，但如我所说，他最近比赛不多，状态是否受到影响还有待观察。

And regarding his chances in the candidates, I think he has very good prospects, but as I mentioned, he has not been very active recently and remains to be seen what impact it has had in his preparation.

他的开局准备可能会带来不少新招数，但到底有没有因为久疏战阵而生锈，现在还不清楚。

I think his opening preparation, he might come up with lot of surprises, new openings, but whether the rustiness is set in or not remains to be seen.

我只希望他能在即将到来的世界冠军赛中，成为马格努斯真正有力的挑战者。

And I just hope he will be a worthy challenger to Magnus in the coming world championship.

如果真那样的话。

If that happens.

要是真那样就好了。

Would be great if that happened.

那可太有意思了。

That would be fascinating.

那你觉得在候选人赛里，谁是最被看好的选手呢，拉梅什？

And do you is there someone that you consider to be the favorite in the candidates, Ramesh?

就像我以前在很多采访里说过的，不管明天是普拉格南对马格努斯，还是普拉格南对其他任何人，我都不好选谁是 favorites。

Generally, like I've mentioned in many interviews, like, even if for tomorrow, Praggnanand, Magnus play or Praggnan, any other player plays a game, I wouldn't pick a favorite.

我只希望棋下得最好的人赢，或者表现更出色的人赢。

I just want the best player to win or the one who played a good game to win.

所以，我对任何比赛或对局都不设 favorites。

So no favorites in any matches or tournaments.

明白了。

Okay.

这倒也合理。

Fair enough.

确实如此。

Yeah.

我们就安心看比赛吧。

Just we'll just enjoy the spectacle.

我们还有一个听众的问题，来自德什穆克·所罗门，虽然跟前面话题不太相关，但他问的是，作为一位前英国冠军的印度人，你觉得禁止印度选手参加英国锦标赛这个决定对吗？

And we had one more listener question, which is from Deshmukh Solomon, and this one is kind of unrelated topic, but he asks if you think it was right to ban Indian players from competing in the British championship as a Indian who's a former British champion.

我觉得这种事我不该评判。

I think it is not for me to judge these things.

每个国家都应该有自由决定本国锦标赛的举办规则，英国国际象棋协会做出了这个决定，我完全尊重，也理解他们的考量。

Every country should have the freedom to form their own rules on how their national championships should be held, and England Association, they have taken that decision, and I respect it fully, and I understand the reasons for taking such decision.

明白了。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

最后一个话题，拉梅什，奥赛七月份就要在金奈举办了。

And the last topic, Ramesh, is I was just sort of the Olympiad, of course, is coming up in Chennai in July.

我们之前一直在聊这些顶尖的年轻印度棋手。

And obviously, we've been talking about all of these top young Indian players.

你最近在《纳恩国际象棋》杂志上做了一期特别有意思的访谈，我强烈推荐听众们去看看。

And you did a really interesting interview with in a recent Nunn Chess magazine that I definitely recommend listeners check out.

你说过，印度棋手表现这么出色，其中一个原因可能是他们获得成功并不容易。

And you talked about what you felt like one of the reasons that India is doing so well is that things don't come easily to, to Indian, players.

印度毕竟还是个发展中国家。

India still being a developing country.

你觉得这种环境反而激励着棋手们去追求卓越。

You felt that it really motivates players to try to, achieve greatness.

但我很好奇，你还提到金奈到处都是国际象棋培训机构。

But I was curious, you also mentioned that there are just chess academies all over Chennai.

所以我想请你给我们的听众介绍一下，目前印度国际象棋的整体状况是怎样的。

So I was just curious if you could just describe for our listeners the the state of chess in India.

我觉得我们不仅对印度棋手的水平印象深刻，更惊讶的是，当奥赛因为俄乌战争不再能在俄罗斯举办时，印度这么快就凑齐了资金，把赛事移到了金奈。

I think we were I mean, obviously, we're impressed with the stature of players, but also impressed that the you know, when the Olympiad was no longer going to be held in Russia due to the Russia Ukrainian war, very quickly, the funding came together to organize it in Chennai.

我很想听听你从实地角度聊聊，印度国际象棋这股热潮到底是怎么起来的。

So I'd love to hear more about sort of just the on the ground perspective of the chess explosion in India.

是的。

Yeah.

过去几十年，尤其是最近十年，国际象棋在印度发展得特别快，主要原因之一就是阿南德的成就。

So chess has been growing phenomenally in the last couple of decades, more so in the last decade, I would say, largely due to, one, the exploits of Anand.

他不止一次，而是五次成为世界冠军。

He has been a world champion not once, but five times.

每次他夺冠，都会重新点燃人们对这项运动的热情，吸引一批又一批年轻人加入。

So every time he becomes a world champion, it renews the interest in the game, and a new crop of young players come to the game.

可以说，他是推动这项运动发展的关键人物。

So that is he has been a major inspiring factor.

各个棋协，包括全国棋协和各邦棋协，印度分很多邦，大多数邦级棋协都很活跃，经常组织不同年龄组的比赛和本地公开赛。

And the the federations, the National Federation, the All Hs Federation, and also India is divided into multiple states, and each state, most of the state federations, they are quite active in organizing different age category tournaments and the local open tournaments.

这为印度棋手提供了大量的实战机会。

And this gives a lot of playing opportunities for the Indian players.

另外，正如我提到的，现在涌现了大量棋校，因为并不是每个棋手都能靠下棋养活自己。

And also, as I mentioned, there are many academies blooming because not every chess player is able to make a career as a player.

所以有些人后来转行当教练，自己开起了棋校，想赚点钱维持生计。

So at some point, they want to earn more money, make a living by turning into coaches, and they start their own academies.

这带来了非常积极的影响，上一代人的经验就这样传给了下一代。

And this has had a very positive impact because the lessons learned from one generation is transferring to the subsequent generations.

而且他们还能接触到很多小孩子。

So and also, like, they're able to reach to many young children.

从这个庞大的竞争群体里，最终会冒出一些年轻棋手，在国际赛场上崭露头角。

So and all out of this large pool of competition, they are getting few players, young players who are able to make a big difference at the international level as well.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，这就是国际象棋发展的一些原因。

So that's a few few reasons why Chess is growing.

看到这些成就，越来越多的私人投资者和赞助商开始支持棋手和赛事。

And seeing all this success, more private investors are coming in, more sponsorship is coming in for players, for tournaments.

当奥赛原定在俄罗斯举办却被取消时，ASEF看到了一个在印度办大事的机会。

And when the Olympiad was canceled in Russia, then ASEF found an opportunity that we could do something big in India.

我们一直在寻找这样的机会。

So we have been looking for such opportunities.

幸运的是，这次奥赛取消后，斯里纳特·亚达夫和ASF秘书巴尔加南先生，成功约见了泰米尔纳德邦首席部长。

And luckily, when the current Olimpiad canceled, Srinathiad Narayanand and ASF secretary, mister Baraggnan, they got an appointment with the Tamil Nadu chief minister.

泰米尔纳德邦是这个赛事的举办地，也是我、菲拉蒂所在的地方——虽然这里说‘中国’是笔误，实际应为‘金奈’。

Tamil Nadu is the state where China is the capital, where myself, Firathi, where the olympiad is going to happen.

他们当天就批准了这个计划。

And within a day, they gave a go ahead.

他们同意由邦政府全额资助国际象棋奥赛。

They agreed that they will fund the Chess Olympiad.

这真是个好消息。

So that's fantastic news.

比赛场地将在马哈巴利普兰。

And venue is going to be Mahabalipuram.

它离金奈只有几公里，紧邻海边，还是世界上历史最悠久的寺庙之一。

It's, like, few kilometers away from Chennai, and it's by the beach, and it's one of the oldest temples in the world.

这座寺庙就建在海岸边。

It was built by the shore.

这里是著名的旅游胜地，周边有很多不错的酒店和度假村。

That's one of the famous tourist spots, and there are many good hotels, resorts in that area.

我觉得这个地点非常适合举办国际象棋奥林匹克赛，而且我认为大部分工作都已经完成了。

So I think it's a fantastic location for the Olimpiad, and I believe all the most of the work has already been completed.

几周前我去了现场，印度棋协——总部在德里——已经全体迁到金奈，所有工作人员也都安顿好了。

I visited the venue a few weeks ago, and already all the teams, the Indian Federation, which is based in Delhi, they have already moved to Chennai, and all the officials, are staying.

每个人都有明确的分工，大部分工作早就搞定了。

Everyone has been given different responsibilities, and most of the work is already complete.