本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
这个播客属于体育社交播客网络的一部分。
This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.
大家好，欢迎回到《永恒棋局》。
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Perpetual Chess.
今天我们请来了一位老嘉宾，我特别期待和她聊聊。
We have a return guest that I am really excited to catch up with.
她最近频频登上头条，但和往常一样，我先要感谢我们的赞助商——Chessable.com。
She's been making big headlines left and right lately, but first as always did want to thank our sponsors, chessable.com.
我也要特别感谢我们节目的朋友，Kabatai医生。
I wanted to give a shout out to friend of the pod, Doctor.
约翰·卡巴塔伊刚推出了一本新练习册，叫《国际象棋的艺术：实用练习手册》。
John Kabatai has a new workbook out, The Art of Chess, A Practical Workbook.
约翰的作品一向都很棒，大家一定别错过。
John's stuff is always great, so be sure to check that out.
如果你注册Chessable.pro，可以通过简介里的链接进行操作。
And if you sign up for chessable.pro, you can use the link in the description.
我还要感谢圣路易斯国际象棋俱乐部
Also wanted to thank St.
帮忙促成了这次采访。
Louis Chess Club for helping to set this interview up.
我们的这位嘉宾不久前还在圣
Our guest was just at St.
路易斯国际象棋俱乐部拿到了U系列赛事的冠军
Louis Chess Club winning the U.
S.
S.
女子冠军赛。
Women's Championship.
她年轻时打破了无数纪录。
As a youth, she broke countless records.
如今她22岁，依然在不断创造新纪录。
She's now a 22 year old young woman who continues to do so.
她现在已经是四次美国女子冠军了。
She's now the four time U.
美国。
S.
女子冠军，其中包括连续三次夺冠。
Women's Champion, including three times in a row.
在今年的美国。
In this year's U.
美国
S.
女子锦标赛，尽管开局有些缓慢，她在最后几轮中取得了七场比赛六场半的成绩。
Women's Championship, after a sluggish start, she scored six and a half out of her last seven in the closing rounds.
她也是今年凯恩斯杯的冠军，在那项赛事中她再次以强劲的收尾表现获胜。
She was also the winner of this year's Cairns Cup after another strong finish in that tournament.
她在国际棋联女子等级分前100名中排名第21位，同时也是美国等级分最高的女棋手。
And she's up to number 21 in the women's top 100 on the live ratings, also the highest rated U.
S.
S.
选手。
Player.
所以我很荣幸邀请你再次来到节目。
So I am honored to welcome back to the program.
我是叶卡丽莎。
I am Carissa Yip.
欢迎你，卡丽莎。
Welcome, Carissa.
非常感谢你，本。
Thank you so much, Ben.
谢谢你刚才那些赞美的介绍。
Thank you for all the kind words and introductions.
谢谢你来参加节目。
Well, thank you for coming on the show.
我知道很多Perpetual Chess的Patreon订阅者在宣布这个消息时都特别激动，你们的精彩故事还有很多，我们迟早会一一聊到。不过，这个月最大的新闻是，10月30号我们录制时，传来了国际大师丹尼尔·纳罗迪茨基去世的消息，真的让人很难过。
I know a lot of the Patreon subs for Perpetual Chess were super excited when I announced it and we've got to get to all of your exploits of which there are many, but Carissa, of course, the big news of the month here was we record on October 30 was the passing of grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky, really sad story.
整个国际象棋界都震惊了。
The chess world has been in shock.
我知道你们俩都上过斯坦福。
I know you guys both went to Stanford.
你现在正在休学一年。
You're taking a gap year.
你年纪比他小不少。
Obviously, you're a bit younger than him.
你以前见过多尼亚吗？
Had you ever met Donya?
是的，其实见过。
Yeah, actually.
听到这个消息的时候，正值疫情期间，真的特别令人心碎。
Mean, it was very heartbreaking to hear back in during COVID.
你知道吗，他是个主播。
You know, he was a he was a streamer.
我以前也偶尔直播过。
I had streamed, like, a little bit.
所以他给了我一些建议。
So he gave me advice.
我们关系挺好的。
We were friendly.
我们是朋友。
We're friends.
他对我一直特别友善。
He's always very kind to me.
我其实没和他聊过多少次。
I didn't get to talk to him too much.
我唯一能想起的和多尼亚有关的事就是——
Maybe my one Donya story is that yeah.
所以我们是朋友，偶尔会在线聊聊象棋和大学的事。
So we're friends, and we would we kind of, like, talk online occasionally about chess, college.
他学的是历史。
He studied history.
那时候我特别喜欢历史，也经常聊一些这方面的话题，诸如此类。
I was super into history at the time and talked a little bit of history too, that sort of thing.
然后到了2020年的U。
And then it was like the twenty twenty U.
S。
S.
锦标赛，那是线上举办的。
Championship, which was online.
然后呢，就是。
And then it was, yeah.
因为是快棋赛，所以还是常规的循环赛制。
So it was like the usual round robin format because it was rapid.
所以我们每天下三盘棋。
So we play like three games a day.
到了最后一天，我落后伊琳娜半分，她当时领跑整个赛事。
And going into the last day, I was like half a point behind Irina, who's leading the tournament.
我那盘棋执黑，对手好像是奥兹·扎通斯基。
And I was playing, I think, Oz Zatonski with the black pieces.
那阵子我偶尔给丹尼尔发消息，他说：‘如果你需要准备，我很乐意帮你。’
And, you know, I'd been, like, texting Daniel a little bit, and he was like, oh, like, I'd be so happy to help you prep if you want.
我就说：‘那太好了。’
And I was like, oh, that'd be great.
第二天早上我刚起床，他就发来一堆资料，凌晨六点就发了——因为他前一天晚上一直直播到三点左右。
And so I think my ram was like the next morning, he sent me like some stuff at 6AM because first of he had been up late until like three or something streaming.
他真的特别热爱这件事。
He just loved it so much.
然后她还说：‘真不好意思，发得这么晚。’
And and then she was like, so sorry this is so late.
但我当时就只想，天啊。
But I was just like, wow.
你知道吗，要是我熬到三点还在直播，我肯定连看一眼棋都不想看了。
Like, you know, if I was up until three streaming, I would just be like, no way I'm looking at more chess now.
但他真的太爱棋了，这种事他说到就会做到。
But, yeah, he just loved chess so much and he was the kind of guy who would like keep his word on stuff like this.
而且说实话，我那盘棋赢了，最后总成绩排第二。
And, yeah, actually, I I won nine game against I think I finished second in that championship anyway.
但他从来没要过任何感谢，也没提过半句功劳。
But, yeah, and then he he never won like any acknowledgement or or anything either.
他纯粹就是出于对棋的热爱。
He just did it out of the game.
所以，就像我说的，他一直对我特别好，是个特别棒的人，听说他上周走了，真让人难过。
So, yeah, like I said, he was always very kind to me, wonderful person, and he's so terrible to hear about everything just like last week feels like.
是的。
Yeah.
这真是典型的丹尼尔的故事。
Very typical Daniel's story.
听到这么多关于他的美好回忆，真的让人很难过。
And it's so sad when you hear all these glowing stories about him.
你最后用了他发的那些内容吗？
Did you end up using the lines that he sent?
用了，确实用了。
Yeah, did.
其实他准备得特别快，质量还特别好。
Actually, he had yeah, he had great like, prep so fast.
我真该雇了他才对。
Like, I should actually, I should hire this guy.
是啊。
Yeah.
不，不行，绝对不行。
No, no, no.
我确实用了那句台词。
I I I did use the line.
效果特别好。
It was great.
他找了个特别冷门的小众玩意儿。
He like, he found like this rare novelty.
他还说，没人玩过这个，诸如此类的话。
He's like, no one has played this, blah blah blah.
内容真的很不错。
It was very good stuff.
我到现在还留着，备着万一用得上。
I still, I still like kind of in my back pocket, just in case.
不错啊，你还留着文件？
Nice, you still have the file?
当然了，肯定留着呢。
Yeah, of course.
太好了。
Excellent.
当然，阿里雷扎·法鲁贾也和你一样，非常认可他的准备和开局知识，毕竟后来人们发现，他带着这些去参加了国际棋联大瑞士制赛，而那竟成了他生命中最后的时光之一。
Yeah, and obviously Ali Reza Farooja had the same thought of you about the quality of his prep and opening knowledge since it came to light that he went to the Fide Grand Swiss with him and what turned out to be some of his last days.
想到这些真让人难过。
It's so sad to think about.
可惜的是，大家对弗拉基米尔·克拉姆尼克这件事议论纷纷，这已经成了常态。
But there's unfortunately, obviously there's a lot of hand wringing about Vladimir Kramnik and the whole thing.
说到底，事情已经无法改变了。
I mean, there's just nothing that can change.
我们能做的，只有努力让未来变得更好，但再也回不来了。
We can try to make things better going forward, but we'll never get Donya back.
这确实是个巨大的损失。
So that's a big loss.
但说到底，我们能说的也实在有限了。
But there's only so much that we can say about that, unfortunately.
那咱们还是聊聊你这次超棒的表现吧，正面一点。
So let's focus on the positive of your incredible performance.
卡丽莎，这已经是连续第二次开局慢热了，我知道你在开罗杯时生病了，但这次是怎么回事？
So second straight sluggish start Carissa, I know you were sick at the Cairns Cup, but what happened?
你觉得，这次有什么不一样吗？
What do you think, did something change this time?
还是说，就是运气使然，事情就这么发展了？
Or is that just kind of the way the ball rolled?
可能我只是想得太多了。
Probably I was just a bit too in my head.
比赛刚开始的时候，有时候会有点压力，这种情况难免会发生。
Sometimes this happens at the start of events when there's kind of a bit of pressure.
在开罗杯时我是生病了，但我也确实想证明自己，我觉得这影响了我的开局表现。
At Cairns I was sick, but obviously I also kind of wanted to prove myself and I think that played a factor in my slow start.
而这次呢，当然了，去年我成绩那么好，难免感到压力。
And then here, of course, there was a, you know, I was feeling pressure after last year's great run.
而且我觉得，从心理上讲，这确实有点难，因为我感觉自己现在的棋力比去年提升了好几倍。
And I think also I just it's kind of it's a little hard mentally because I felt like, you know, I'm like five times a player than I was last year.
但为什么我的成绩还是这么差呢？
But how are my results so bad?
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
我
I
有时候，你会突然学到很多新的棋艺知识，但要真正把这些东西融入自己的棋风，还得花时间。
think sometimes there's this period where you kind of gain more chess knowledge, but it takes time to properly integrate with your chess.
我觉得这对我而言也是原因之一。
And I think that was sort of a part of it for me.
后来我就意识到，我必须摆脱自己的胡思乱想。
And at some point I just, I was like, I have to get out of my own head.
第一个休息日之后，情况就好多了，因为我终于有机会重新调整，之后才真正开始赢棋。
After the first rest day, that was really good because I was, you know, I kind got a chance to reset and then I started scoring for real.
没错。
Right.
对。
Yeah.
从那以后，情况就彻底好转了。
Then, then things really turned around.
所以你正在从斯坦福休学一年？
And so you're taking a gap year from Stanford.
你还剩一年吗？
Do you have one year left?
是的，还剩一年多一点。
Yes, I have just a little bit over a year.
我们学校是学季制的。
We're on like a quarter system.
我是在大三的春季学期开始的。
So I started in the spring quarter of my junior year.
所以我还剩四个学季。
So I'll have four quarters left.
所以你基本上从夏天就开始休学了？
Okay, so you've been off basically since the summer?
是的，差不多吧。
Yeah, pretty much.
我从去年四月就开始休学了。
I've been off since April last year.
从日常来看，这种生活是什么感觉？
Okay, and from a day to day perspective, what does that feel like?
你下多少棋？
Like how much chess are you doing?
你享受这个过程吗？
Are you enjoying that process?
对。
Yeah.
我觉得首先这对我特别好，不是说时间上，而是象棋能在我脑子里留出一片清净的空间。
I think first of all, it's very good for me, not even in the sense of time, but just like mental energy and space that chess can occupy in my mind.
平时在学校的时候，要应付的各种责任和事情太多了，总得操心、总得想。
Cause usually when I'm at school, there's so many different responsibilities and things that I have to be kind of concerned with or thinking about.
这些事儿会不知不觉耗掉我不少脑力。
So that kind of takes up kind of saps like some some of my intellectual energy.
对吧？
Right?
现在每天我基本上就只做象棋这一件事。
Day to day these days, I mean, all I'm I'm doing is pretty much chess.
让我想想。
So let me think.
我确实是。
I'm yeah.
我的日常安排会有点变化，因为经常要下棋、训练，所以不练的时候，我就尽量休息恢复。
My routine kind of varies a little bit because I play and go to train so often that when I'm not doing that, I'm usually trying to rest and recover a bit.
所以最近几天，我基本上就在放松。
So for the last few days, I've mostly been chilling.
不过一般来说，我自己一个人工作的时候，大概会投入四到六个小时左右。
But I think on like an average, you know, like me working by myself day, I'll probably try to work for, somewhere between like four to six hours.
和别人一起工作的时候，我不太喜欢把自己逼得太紧。
I don't really like burning myself out too much when I go to work with other people.
那时候我们可能会干八到十个小时。
We could do like eight to ten hours.
所以具体时间真的看情况。
So it really just varies.
那你的工作具体是做什么呢？
And what does the work look like?
是死记开局变化吗？
Is it cramming opening lines?
我记得你之前在2022年聊过，开局是你的弱项。
I know you mentioned openings as a relative weakness in our prior conversation in 2022.
就是死记开局线吗？
Is it just cramming opening lines?
你也会做计算和练习吗？
Are you doing calculation work and exercises as well?
是的，说实话，各种都做一点。
Yeah, honestly, a bit of everything.
我觉得最近主要还是在搞开局。
I think probably mostly openings these days.
现在这方面比以往任何时候都更重要了。
It's a big thing kind of now more than ever, I think.
我也喜欢抽出一部分时间做计算和残局研究，保持状态。
Also, I like to spend, you know, some portion of my time doing calculation work, puzzle studies just to keep sharp.
我觉得这些算是主要的固定内容，再加上多和朋友下些训练棋，保持敏锐度。
You know, I think those are kind of the main constants along with trying to play a good amount of training games, just with friends and stuff, again, to stay sharp.
另外，我的其他工作内容变化挺大的，有时候会分析比赛对局。
And then, you know, my other work is kind of varies, know, sometimes I'll be analyzing games for my tournaments.
有时候我会专门花点时间，研究某些特定的开局或者对局，这类东西吧。
Sometimes I'll be just trying to, yeah, study up on certain things and games, that sort of stuff.
听起来你并不是那种必须按死板日程和课程表来的人。
So it sounds like you're not someone who feels like you need to have like a rigid schedule and curriculum laid out.
一般来说，我还是喜欢有个不错的日常安排。
Generally, I like to have like a good routine.
我觉得其中有些部分确实比较固定。
I think there are parts of it that are kind of rigid.
有些事情我每天都会坚持，尽量不跳过。
You know, there are like some things I try not to skip every day.
但其他部分就比较灵活，随性一点。
But then for the rest of it, it's more free flowing.
那你哪些事情是一定不会跳过的？
So what do you try not to skip?
哦，比如计算训练这类内容。
Oh, I mean, like the calculation work.
我每天都会尽量至少花一个小时做计算练习。
I try to do like maybe at least an hour of that every day.
我每周会打一些训练对局，特别是快有比赛的时候。
I try to play like some number of training games in a week, especially if a tournament is coming up.
开局这块儿确实有点难搞，我得说，如果你光研究开局，很容易就腻了。
And openings are openings are a little tricky to work on, I have to say, because it's kind of easy to get burned out if you're only working on openings.
所以有时候我会有一段特别专注的时期，一心扑在找新思路、研究棋谱上。
So sometimes I'll have like these periods where I'm just like totally locked in finding new ideas, studying lines, that sort of thing.
然后也会有一段时间，我干脆完全不碰开局。
And then some periods where I'm just trying not to look at openings at all.
至于练习材料，Carissa，你一般用什么资源？
And for the exercises, Carissa, do you have like, what's the source material?
哦，就是些书啊、朋友啊、教练啊，这类东西吧。
Oh, I mean, it'll just be like books, friends, coaches, that sort of thing.
所以并没有什么固定的教学材料。
So no really like set course material,
最近有没有什么特别推荐的书或者课程？
Any recent standout, like books or courses that
说实话，最近我在用一些《杀手棋谱训练表》。
Think, you know, recently I've been doing like some Killer Chess Trading Sheets.
这些还挺不错的。
So those have been quite good.
确实不错。
Yeah.
给雅各布和他的团队点个赞。
Shout out to Jakob and his team there.
是啊，他们做得真棒。
Yeah, they're
非常出色。
amazing.
没错。
Yes.
没错。
Yeah.
说到开局，我注意到你在北美女子锦标赛里主要下的是e4。
So, and opening wise, so I noticed that you played mostly E4 in the U.
美国。
S.
比如你对法国防御的时候，其实你分别下过挺进变例和赢法变例。
Women's Championship, but for example, like when you faced the French, you did manage to play like an advanced and a winner separately.
你并不是死守一种e4体系，而是在这个框架内灵活调整，甚至可能以后会拓展到其他开局路线。
You're not like, you're varying your openings within the E4 umbrella and maybe you will branch out beyond that, get back to other lines as well.
在那种准备非常密集的封闭式比赛中，你对制造意外有什么整体的考虑吗？我特别好奇这一点。
Do you have like a philosophy in terms of, especially I'm curious, a closed tournament like that where prep is intensive, do you have like an overarching philosophy for the value of surprises?
当然。
Absolutely.
我觉得在比赛初期给对手来个出其不意总是很有好处的。
I think it's always great to surprise your opponent early on.
这在一定程度上也取决于对手，因为有些人不太能应对意外，有些人则还能应付得来。
I mean, some also depends on the opponent because some people can you know, some people handle surprises poorly and some manage all right.
但总的来说，我还是倾向于在开局时出其不意。
But I think generally, generally I try to surprise in the opening.
其实呢，之所以这么做，是因为我的教练阿沃德常跟我说。
And yeah, I mean, it's kind of like I mean, the reason for the surprises is like, this is what my coach Awonder likes to tell me.
他说啊
So it's like
哦，原来如此。
Oh, okay.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
所以最好的情况是，我本来以为
So best case scenario I mean, knew
你们以前是朋友。
you guys were friends.
我不知道他是不是真的在教你。
I didn't know if he was actually coaching you.
这挺不错的。
That's cool.
太好了。
That's great.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
不是，不是，不是。
No, no, no.
他是。
He is.
我们一直……嗯，这个问题我待会儿再回答吧。
We've been, maybe I can answer that later.
我们从2024年8月左右就开始合作了。
We've been working together since like August 2024.
所以已经有一段时间了。
So it's been a while.
不过说回来，他有个观点是这样的：最好的情况是引擎对对手，最坏的情况才是你对对手。
But anyway, yeah, he has this thing where he's like, you know, worst case scenario well, sorry, best case scenario, it's the engine versus your opponent, and worst case scenario, it's you versus your opponent.
我记得他去年八月就跟我说过这番话，当时他想让我养成‘早打、常打 surprise’的习惯。
So, and I'm like, yeah, I remember he told me this like last August, because he was trying to get me on his thing of surprising early and often.
我后来想了想，确实他说得对，引擎对对手，引擎理应帮我赢过对方。
I thought about it and I was like, actually, he's right because engine versus opponent engine should be winning me against my opponent.
大多数时候，我自己也应该是没问题的。
Probably most of the time I should be good too.
这其实给了我不少信心。
So, it was kind of a boost of confidence.
我觉得吧，对于这种近距离的赛事，我其实不太会一个对手一个对手地提前准备，毕竟还有颜色之类的因素。
I think, yeah, for close tournaments, I actually don't really try to prepare opponent by opponent before the event because, you know, there's colors, that sort of thing.
但一般来说，我还是会做相当多的准备工作。
But generally, I try to do like a good amount of work.
随着比赛临近，我会逐步加大投入的力度。
So I'll kind of ramp up the work that I'm doing as a tournament approaches.
尽量多积累一些新思路、新开局。
And I'll just try to have like a good number of new ideas, new openings.
就像你提到的法国防御，我冬天的时候确实专门研究过。
So like you mentioned the French, had like this advanced, I had this winter work.
说实话，我之前真没料到自己会用罗斯，对方还会选法国防御，不过我知道赛场上至少有两位有名的法国防御高手——塔塔夫和安娜。
You know, I didn't really expect, let's say, beforehand that I'd play Rose with Way and that she'd play French, but I knew, you know, there are two well known French players in the field, Tatav, Anna.
我注意到，有些对手跟我对局时，如果喜欢用各种不同开局，有时候就会挑法国防御。
Sometimes people I've noticed that when people play me and they play a variety of different openings, sometimes they'll go for the French.
看来他们觉得这是我的弱项。
So it seems like they think that's a weakness of mine.
所以最好能准备好几套应对方案。
So it'd be good to have like multiple weapons against that.
然后，比如我跟Rose那场比赛，她经常换各种开局，但她之前在同一赛事里下过法兰西防御。
And then, so it's like when my game against Rose comes along, she plays a lot of different lines, but she played the French, like in a game prior, I think, during the same event.
我每种变化都做了准备，但这样挺省事的，因为不用额外花太多功夫，对吧？
And, you know, I prep for every line, but it's kind of helpful because I don't have to really do extra work there, right?
我只需要去核对一下我的资料就行。
I just kind of get to check my files.
所以那次在美
So at U.
国的时候
S.
女子组的比赛，我当时大概每天只花半小时到一小时准备，其实没花多少功夫。
Women's, I think probably I was doing like half an hour, an hour prep every day, not that much.
那盘执黑的对局里，我用了英国鼠防御，这个开局名字我后来还特意核对了一遍。
And then with the black pieces, played like the English rat defense, which I had to double check the name.
我甚至都不确定那是什么开局。
Wasn't even sure what it was.
然后你下了现代防御。
And then you played like the modern.
这些都算是比较冷门的变例。
So those are rather offbeat lines.
学这些冷门开局，会不会让人觉得有压力？
Is it intimidating to learn and play lines like that?
说实话，我年轻的时候就特别喜欢现代防御。
You know, I'm a big, a big modern fan from my younger days.
所以你是希望转成王兵印度防御，对吧？
So yeah, hoping for the Kings Indian transposition, right?
没错。
Exactly.
就是王兵印度防御这类的布局。
Kings Indian, that sort of thing.
我是说，面对e4时，我会下各种不同的开局。
I mean, I play a variety of things against e four.
我有一些西西里防御的套路。
So I have I have some Sicilians.
我也用现代防御，不过得想想我什么时候会选它。
I have the modern, but let me think when I play them on.
好吧。
Okay.
我之前对梅根下过。
So I played against Megan.
所以，我可以跟你们说说我是怎么选开局的。
So I guess here's some insights at how I pick my openings.
梅根年纪很小，天赋极高，但经验还比较少。
Megan is like, obviously very young, super talented, but just doesn't have that much experience.
对吧？
Right?
所以我猜她对主流的主流变化肯定很熟，但那些冷门的变化，一般人其实很少专门研究。
So I figured she'll know her stuff in kind of the main big lines, but kind of, you know, offbeat lines people actually don't really tend to study that much.
而且这个开局对对手来说还挺容易混淆的。
And the model can be kind of a confusing opening to face.
我自己在这上面也有不少经验。
I also have like a lot of experience in it.
所以我觉得这对她这样的选手来说是个不错的选择，结果还真就是这样。
So I just, I thought it would be a good choice for a player like her and it kind turned out to be true.
那应该就是梅根·帕瓦加。
That would be that would be Megan Paragua.
没错。
Correct.
卡丽莎，你用了这么多开局，你觉得记棋谱是你的强项吗？
And so Carissa, with all these openings, do you consider it a strength of yours to memorize lines?
我觉得开局的关键其实不在于死记硬背，而在于理解——我知道这听起来挺老生常谈的，但正因为是老生常谈，才说明它有道理。
I actually think openings are not so much the memorization as they are about understanding, which I know is kind of a cliche, but it's kind of cliche for a reason.
对吧？
Right?
确实如此。
It's quite true.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
如果你只是死记硬背招法，却不真正理解其中的原理，有时候对手一上来就出乎你的意料。
I mean, if you only memorize lines and you don't really understand what's going on, sometimes, you know, your opponent surprises early.
你根本不知道该怎么应对。
You're not really sure what the right response is.
我觉得这招特别容易让别人措手不及。
It's kind of an easy easy way to catch someone, I think.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，如果你对这句话的表达方式没把握的话。
I mean, also, if you you think have phrased this.
如果你确实不太清楚的话。
If you're yeah.
如果你对台词理解得不够透彻，说完之后就容易卡住，对吧？
If you just don't understand your lines so well, then it kind of also becomes tricky after the line ends, right?
比如说，你把所有准备都做完了，结果台词一说完，
Like, let's say you get through all of your prep and then your file ends, right?
接下来就全靠你自己了。
And then you're kind of on your own.
然后你心里就琢磨，现在我该怎么做？
And you're like, well, what's my game plan now?
你知道的。
You know?
如果对方稍微改变了一下位置，你可能还会想，这个变动到底有多关键？
And if there's like a slight deviation in the position, you don't know, like, was this deviation, really critical?
我是不是该另起炉灶，换个计划？
Do I embark upon another plan?
有没有办法利用这个机会给对手点颜色看看？
Is there a way to punish my opponent for this?
有时候你得想，这其实根本没改变局面的本质，不如还是继续按原先的思路走，诸如此类。
That sort of thing versus like, oh, this is doesn't actually fundamentally change the nature of the position, and so I should kind of continue with whatever I was trying to do in the first place, that sort of thing.
我觉得这在你寻找意外招法或新意的时候特别成立。
I kind of think this is true when you're trying to find surprises or, you know, novelties.
一般来说，有些开局更依赖死记硬背，有些则更看重理解。
In general, also, some openings require more memorization and others require more understanding.
比如西西里防御，显然需要花大量时间背谱。
That sort of thing, like I think, for example, I mean, Sicilian obviously requires time memorization.
当然理解也很重要，但有些变化就是必须走唯一正确的着法，不然就全完了。
Also understanding helps, of course, but sometimes they're just lines where, you know, kinda have to play only moves and otherwise you're you're kinda screwed.
我觉得像后兵开局这类局面，更多是靠局面理解，而不是死记硬背。
You know, I think there are a lot more there are lines that are, like, a lot more positionally based, let's say, like, within one d four.
对吧？
Right?
很多东西其实靠的是理解。
A lot of that is kind of understanding.
我觉得意大利开局也差不多是这样。
And I think also probably same goes for like the Italian.
我说一下，我对意大利开局的高水平变化不太熟，但感觉它更靠直觉。
I will say, I don't actually know the Italian so well on like a high level, but I kind of get the sense that it's more of a intuitive thing.
那如果你从零开始学一个开局，你会怎么入手？
And so if you are learning an opening from scratch, what's your approach?
你会看对局吗？
Do you look at games?
你会研究主流变化吗？
Do you look at the main lines?
你通常会找教练，比如阿沃德，让他们给你整体讲解吗？
Do you, are you generally working with a coach like Awonder so that they can give an overview?
比如你从某个东西开始学，以你的水平当然不是从零开始，但假设你对这个还比较陌生的话。
Like if you're learning from something, obviously nothing's from scratch at your level, but say you're relatively unfamiliar.
你会怎么入手呢？
How would you approach it?
我觉得，没错。
I think, yeah.
如果我是从零开始，我总是希望有人先给我一个全面的介绍。
So if I'm starting completely from scratch, I always kind of want a person to give me a good overview.
但就像你说的，我平时下得比较多的是e4开局。
But you know, like you're saying, I'm playing a lot within e four.
比如说，我想学一些高级变化，或者下法国防御的时候，这些结构我其实已经挺熟悉的了。
So for example, if I'm trying to learn advanced or when I wear in the French, these structures are kind of already quite familiar to me.
所以这一点对我很有帮助。
So that part helps.
另外，没错，看棋谱也很重要，能让你明白整体思路。而我最常做的，其实是打开引擎，自己动手摆一摆。
Think also, yeah, so looking at games is important because you get a sense of the plan and also maybe what I do most is I kinda like to turn on the engine and I poke around, right?
你总是想了解引擎推荐的最顶尖着法，这当然没错。
You just, I mean, you always kind of wanna know the top engine line, of course.
但以我的水平来说，别人遇到意外情况时，一般不会走引擎的顶尖着法。
But at my level, like people aren't usually playing the top engine line when they're surprised.
所以我喜欢先看局面，想想自己会怎么自然应对，然后再去查查主流观点是什么。
So I like to look at the position, think about how I would react naturally, and then figure out, you know, what's the reputation of sorts.
我觉得，如果你想真正理解一个局面，最好的办法就是坐下来，用引擎多摆一摆，不管是开局、中局，还是任何其他局面都行。
But I think, yeah, if you really want to understand a position, kind of just sit down and poke around with the engine for a while, whether it's like an opening position, middleweight position, just anything like that.
试着走你脑子里冒出来的着法，看看它们为什么有效，为什么无效。
Just try the moves that come to your head, figure out why they work, why they don't work.
这样会让你更清楚局势的来龙去脉。
They'll give you more clarity.
而且我觉得，说到开局，我也喜欢和别人一起研究开局。
And I think also, yeah, with the openings thing, I like working with people on openings.
比如我会和朋友一起练，他们有个想法，就会说：‘卡莉莎，来和我下一下这个局面吧。’
So for example, like I'll be working with my friends, they'll have some idea and they'll be like, oh, like Carissa, come play this position against me.
咱们看看你怎么应对。
Let's see how you react.
就是这种感觉。
That sort of thing.
所以，是的。
And so, yeah.
你刚才提到不少训练对局的事。
And so you've been mentioning training games a fair amount.
你一般下什么时间控制？
What time control do you generally play?
我通常下快棋。
Typically I play rapid.
比如15加10就很经典，我也偶尔下25加5，但那个对我来说有点太长了。
So, you know, 15 plus 10 is a classic because I do like some 25 plus five, but that's actually a little bit too long for me.
有时候我也会下个3加5这样的，算是比较特别的时间控制。
And then, yeah, sometimes I could just do like three plus five or something, which is kind a weird time control.
但我在线快棋下得特别差，因为平时我用触控板，反应太慢了。
But I'm really bad at like online blitz because, well, usually I use my touchpad, which is kind of slow.
我用鼠标特别不顺手，这事儿说来话长。
Reason for this is because somehow I'm like terrible with a mouse.
从2020年第一次用SCC开始，我就一直不擅长用鼠标。
I've been terrible with a mouse since like maybe I put my first SCC in like 2020.
是的。
Yeah.
我记得有次跟丹尼尔说，我干脆给你寄个鼠标吧。
I remember at some point, Daniel, I was like, I'll send you a mouse myself.
我正想说呢，卡丽莎，你刚赢了四万五千美元呢。
I was gonna say, you just won $45,000 Carissa.
买个鼠标应该没问题吧。
Should be able to get a mouse.
他直接说，拜托，你真得换个鼠标了。
He was like, please, you have to get a mouse.
我就直接寄给你好了。
Like, I'll just send it to you.
我当时就想，哦，行吧。
I was like, oh, okay.
其实也没关系。
Like, it's fine.
我自己买一个就行。
I'll just, I'll just buy my own.
但就是，我也说不上来。
But it's just, I don't know.
鼠标太滑了，线还老碍事。
It's so, slippery and wires get in the way.
我真不太喜欢用鼠标。
I just don't really like using the mouse.
我的鼠标操作水平太差了。
I don't have good mouse skills.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
我其实也不太想练鼠标操作。
I actually also yeah.
我对提升鼠标操作技能几乎没什么兴趣。
I have very little interest in also training my mouse skills.
所以这也是原因之一。
So that's another part of it.
即使在加时赛中，我也会设个提醒，不过反正吧，如果我玩快棋或者训练局，我一般会用特别夸张的加时，比如三加五、三加十这种。
So even with increment, tend to flag, but anyway, yeah, if I'm playing faster time control, like training games, I'll do like some ridiculous increment, three plus five, three plus 10, that sort of thing.
你觉得这很重要吗？打这些训练局的时候，你得全神贯注，还是更像在做实验？
And do you feel it's important and can you, do you have to channel serious focus when you're playing these training games or is it more kind of like a laboratory?
不，我的意思是，当然还是认真的，但我更想借此机会试试新想法，比如某些开局之类的。
No, I mean, it's always serious for sure, but kind of want to use it as a opportunity to try out, you know, ideas, certain openings, that kind of thing.
但我不会特意去研究对手，比如翻他们的开局库之类的东西。
But I won't like, you know, I won't like prep very deeply for my opponent or anything like that, check their openings or whatever.
有时候我跟人下棋，可能会临时想试试某个开局。
It's just like, sometimes I'll play people and then maybe I'll have like an opening request.
也许他们会提个开局要求，让我试试，好让他们验证新变化，或者我自己也想试试。
Maybe they'll have an opening request for me to try so they could, you know, test out some new line or if I want to.
有时候呢，说实话，我就随便下下，想到哪儿下到哪儿。
And then sometimes, you know, sometimes we're just like, oh, I just honestly just play whatever.
明白了。
Okay.
回到更大的话题上，Carissa，我们收到一位长期支持本节目的朋友的问题，我想你应该也认识他，Chris Wayne Scott。
Well, returning to more big picture, Carissa, we had a question from longtime friend and supporter of the pod who I believe you know as well, Chris Wayne Scott.
Chris问，咱们直说吧，Carissa，你是更想走职业棋手这条路，还是先去企业界打拼？
Chris says, let's cut to the chase, Carissa, would you prefer to have a career as a chess professional or to enter the corporate world first?
哦，Chris这问题简直像从我嘴里说出来的。
Oh, Chris coming from my throat, this one.
对。
Yeah.
问得真直接。
On the spot.
是的
Yeah.
我觉得我现在答案已经很清楚了。
Well, I think my answer is pretty clear right now.
没错。
Right.
国际象棋职业选手。
Chess professional.
我年轻的时候，这一点没那么明显。
I think when I was younger, it was less obvious to me.
我确定自己想要接受扎实的教育。
I knew for sure that I wanted to get, you know, solid education.
所以我上了挺不错的高中，对此我非常感激。
So I went to a pretty, pretty good high school, which I'm very appreciative of.
我也知道自己想上大学。
And I knew I also wanted to go to college.
所以我最后去了斯坦福。
So I ended up going to Stanford.
但我觉得，某个时候我突然明白，这辈子我最想从事的职业其实就是下棋。
But I think at some point, it became clear that there was actually nothing I would prefer as a career as than chess.
于是我就想，算了，看看我能不能在棋坛闯出点名堂吧。
And so I was like, well, you know, we'll see if I can make it in chess.
反正先试试看。
We'll we'll give it a shot.
希望一切顺利吧。
Hopefully hopefully it goes well.
要是不顺利，那可能我就只能去公司上班了。
If it goes poorly, then I guess maybe I'll have no choice but corporate.
不过说实话，我觉得
But yeah, I think
呃，不好意思。
Well, well sorry.
哦
Oh,
不用了
no.
是的
Yeah.
在我看来，美国的企业文化也算是一种独特的糟糕体验。
I think American corporate is also kind of like a unique branch of awfulness, at least in, at least in my eyes.
对。
Yeah.
我完全同意，虽然确实有些好处，比如更稳定，还有医疗保险之类的。
You're not going to get a disagreement with me, although there's certainly some benefits, more, more security and health insurance and stuff
比如医疗保险。
like Health insurance.
是的。
Yeah.
不过，很多国际象棋爱好者听到你这么说一定会很兴奋。
But, but, there'll be a lot of Chess fans excited to hear you say that.
而且会觉得你选择休学一年，说明你很有紧迫感。
And feel like it shows some urgency that you took this gap year.
你只剩下一年时间了。
You only have one year left.
其实你可以先完成学业，再去做这件事，但你不想等。
You know, you could have just gone, finished, then did it, but you you didn't wanna wait.
是的。
Yeah.
有位朋友跟我说过，如果真要下国际象棋，早点开始总比拖着好。
I mean, kind of as a friend told me if I'm gonna do chess, it's better to do it sooner than later.
另外，我决定休学那会儿，正好状态不错，连着赢了好几场。
The other thing was I'm kind of on a bit or when I decided to take this gap year, I've been on, like, a bit of a hot streak.
我刚在奥林匹克团体赛上拿了金牌，接着又在大学赛里八战全胜。
So I just won the gold at Olympiad and then also this, like, eight out of eight run at U.
冠军。
S.
世锦赛冠军。
Champs.
那时候我其实没什么动力，但我对自己能表现好很有信心。
So I was feeling kind of especially not so motivated, but I guess I had a lot of faith in myself to to do well.
我觉得状态这么好，不如干脆停下其他事，专心继续下去。
And I figured, it's going so well, I should just stop everything and try to continue it.
是的，这很合理。
Yeah, that makes sense.
说到八战全胜，我很好奇，你之前在二月的《国际象棋生活》杂志里讲过一个关于山姆·尚克兰德打赌的故事，我特别喜欢。
And speaking of the eight out of eight run, I was wondering, I really enjoyed the story you told in the February Chess Life Magazine about a a wonder and grandmaster Sam Shankland's bet.
能跟我们的听众分享一下这个故事吗？
Could you indulge our listeners with that story?
好的。
Yeah.
当然可以。
Absolutely.
好的。
Okay.
大概是在第四轮之后，我跟艾琳娜下了一盘特别惊险的棋，最后赢了。
So it was like after the fourth round, I won a crazy, crazy game against Irena.
按理说那盘棋应该通过长将和棋的。
It should have been a draw by Cat Trickster.
不知道你记不记得这盘棋。
I don't know if you remember this game.
那天晚上我搞了些小动作，把她给整懵了。
Some night before stuff and then, confused her.
总之，后来我们去了酒吧。
So anyway, so we're at the bar.
实际上，那天阿沃德输给了雷，状态挺低迷的。
Actually, Awonder had lost to Ray that day, so he was a little bit in the trenches.
他跟我说，Carissa，咱们去酒吧吧。
He's like, Carissa, let's hit the bar.
我就说，好啊。
I was like, sure.
他又说，要不把Sam也叫上吧。
He's like, let's get he's like, let's get Sam too.
我也说，行啊。
And I was like, sure.
我觉得Sam那天也不知道为啥，状态也不太好。
I think Sam was also maybe a little bit in the trenches for some reason.
我们到了酒吧，接着就聊起了正在播的一场棒球赛。
So we're at the bar, and then we're like, like, some baseball game up.
聊了会儿棒球，顺便提了提大学的事。
We're, like, talking about baseball, talking briefly about, like, college.
不知怎么的，我们又聊起了股票，毕竟男生们都爱谈这个。
For some reason, we're talking about stocks because the boys love stocks.
我根本不在乎他们。
I don't care about them at all.
你懂的，他就是对这些啤酒全都不信。
You know, is just doubting all these beers.
然后他说，萨姆，卡丽莎要拿菲舍尔奖了。
And then he's like and he's like, Sam, Carissa's gonna get the Fisher Prize.
你觉得呢？
What do think?
萨姆说，不可能。
And Sam's like, no.
绝对不可能。
Absolutely not.
他还说，根本没戏。
And he was like, definitely not.
他在这事儿上特别坚决。
It's just he's very vehement on this.
我当时就想，哎，说实话，我有点被冒犯了。
I was like, oh, I'm a little offended, honestly.
他说，不可能。
He's like, no.
就是啊，你知道的，这讲的是概率。
It's just like, you know, probabilities.
他拿出计算器来。
He takes out his calculators.
比如说，你赢比赛的概率是多少。
Like, let's say you have, like, some percentage to win.
你得把所有比赛都赢了。
You have to win all your games.
反正就是一堆数字。
Blah blah blah.
行吧。
Okay.
所以他就在那算数字。
So he's, like, calculating numbers.
这些数字对我来说简直太糟糕了，根本不可能拿到Fisher Price。
Numbers are very poor, of course, for me in terms of getting a Fisher Price.
我猜Wonder可能喝得有点多，所以他才说不行。
And I wonder wonder's probably a little too drunk, so he's like, no.
不行。
No.
她肯定能成。
She'll definitely make it.
他们居然还打赌，赌我能不能拿到Fisher Price。
So they have, like, the stupid bet made on whether or not I'll make the Fisher Price.
所以每天我走进比赛大厅的时候。
And so it's like every day I walk in a tournament hall.
我都会盯着Sam，故意吓唬他一下。
I'm like looking at Sam just to threaten him a little bit.
是的
Yeah.
然后我输掉了第九盘棋，但那是在第九轮开始前不久的事。
And then I lost my ninth game, but it was like right before the ninth round.
那时候我们好像正在聊天。
And I think we were like chatting.
到那时，大家都已经听说了阿沃德和尚克兰之间的那个赌注。
Everyone had heard about this bet between Awonder and and Shankland at this point.
韦斯利总是喜欢凑热闹。
And then Wesley was Wesley's always trying again on the action.
当然，韦斯利说：‘让我也来赌一把。’
Of course, Wesley's like, let me get in on this bet.
所以阿沃德就说：‘行吧。’
So then I think Awonder like Awonder was like, alright.
我跟你赌。
I'll make a bet with you.
一百美元，卡丽莎拿不到费舍尔奖。
$100, Carissa doesn't make the Fisher prize.
所以这本质上就是韦斯利和萨姆之间的赌注。
So So, it's basically just a bet between Wesley and So Sam at the
为了帮听众理清一下，费舍尔奖是辛克尔家族设立的特别奖项，如果你能取得十一胜零负，就能拿到六万四千美元。但我对这个赌注的具体条款不太清楚。
just to clarify a couple things for listeners, Fisher Prize is the special prize that the Sinkelds have in doubt, where if you go 11 and an O, you get, I think it's $64,000 And the terms of the bet, it wasn't clear to me.
是平赔吗？
Is it even money?
是萨姆和阿沃德各押一百美元吗？
Is it like Sam risks a 100 and Awonder risks a 100?
因为你说过，从数学概率上来说——
Because as you said, the probability, mathematic
平赔。
Even money.
我当时就觉得，这赔率不太划算。
I was like, these are not good odds.
我当时想阻止他下注。
I was trying to stop him from making the bet.
我就把啤酒推开了，心想：哎呀，别赌了。
I was like, oh, like, you know, pushing my beer away.
我说：真没必要下这个注。
I was like, no, no need to make the bet.
他却说：不行，我非赌不可。
He's like, no, I'm going to make the bet.
明白了。
Okay.
就只是几脚踢球而已。
Was just a
几脚踢球吧，我想。
couple of kicks, I guess.
对。
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
你差点就成了，就是没成功。
You came close, but no luck.
我的意思是，运气真的挺关键的。
I mean, a lot of luck.
你赢得比赛很干脆，但就是没赢下那个赌注。
You won the tournament convincingly, but but no luck in the in the actual winning of the bet.
今年的U赛事也没打任何赌。
And no bets this year in this year's U.
S。
S.
锦标赛？
Championship?
我的意思是，要是我开局能更好一点就好了。
I mean, maybe if I'd had a better start.
对。
Right.
但你知道，我当时就觉得这压力太大了。
But, you know, I I was like, this is too much pressure.
一上来就输掉了第一局。
Immediately, let me lose my first game.
干脆把奖品全给撤了算了。
So just fish your prize completely off the table.
对。
Right.
广告后继续为您带来卡丽萨·叶的更多内容。
We'll be back with more from IM Carissa Yip after the break.
你的意思是，经过四轮之后，我觉得你应该是两胜两负，对吧？
Do you feel like so it's not like I mean, after four rounds, I think you were two and two.
对。
Right?
四轮过后，我四分之一分。
After four rounds, I was one and a half out of four.
哦，这样啊。
Oh, okay.
你当时有没有觉得，自己还有机会？
Did you just feel, did you feel like you were still in it?
说实话，有那么一阵子，我真的感觉在拼命挣扎。
You know, actually, I think at some point I was like really in the trenches.
我当时就想，别在这次比赛里掉分就行了。
I was like, you know, I'm just gonna try to like not lose rating at this tournament.
所以我没太去想自己还有没有希望，但我知道自己肯定还没被淘汰。
So I wasn't thinking so much about whether or not I was in it, but I knew for sure I wasn't out of it.
你懂的。
You know?
就是那时候比赛还早，我不想太多想这些事。
It's just that, like, you know, I didn't wanna think too much about because tournament was still early at that point.
我想，那大概就是我在比赛期间状态最差的时候了。
And, I guess that was kinda me maybe me at my low during the event.
但就像我说的，休息日挺好的。
But like I said, rest day was good.
我稍微调整了一下状态。
I kind of got to reset a little.
而且很明显，一旦我赢了第一场，信心就一下子上来了，觉得自己肯定还有戏。
And obviously once I got my first win, my confidence just went way up and I was like, I'm definitely still in it.
是啊，毫无疑问。
Yeah, for sure.
我们还收到一个相关的问题，来自Perpetual Chess的Patreon支持者。
And we had another question on a related note from a Patreon supporter of Perpetual Chess.
感谢Dan Ruparel对这个播客的支持。
Thank you to Dan Ruparel for helping to support the pod.
他祝贺你赢得了凯恩斯杯，还提到你又加冕了U。
And he was wondering, he said, congrats on your Cairns Cup win, addition to the U.
S.
S.
锦标赛，当然了。
Championship, of course.
他还想确认一下你是否从那次生病中恢复了，同时也想问问，像我们之前聊过的，当一个人深陷低谷、感觉在棋盘上怎么也爬不出来的时候，有什么建议。
And he wanted to make sure you recovered from whatever it was that made you sick and also just general advice as we've been talking about for when someone is in the trenches, you call it, feeling like they can't get out of a funk chess wise.
是的。
Yeah.
说实话，我最近也一直有这种感觉。
I mean, actually, I've absolutely been feeling this way recently as well.
我觉得这事儿我还得慢慢琢磨清楚。
I think it's something I'm still trying to figure out.
我觉得在加拿大比赛之后，我其实经历了一连串还过得去的比赛。
So I think I kind of after Canada, actually had a series of kinda like okay events.
我参加了世界杯，那会儿我的积分涨了十来分，但很遗憾，我被肖利淘汰了，当时我几乎每场加赛都占上风，可就是不知道为什么，怎么也赢不下关键局。
So I had World Cup, which was, you know, I think I got like plus 10 rating, obviously, you know, I got knocked out very disappointingly so by my shawley, and they're just like, oh, I think I was, like, winning almost every single tiebreak game, but then I just couldn't convert for some reason.
第一盘我多出了三个兵，结果还是和了。
I was up, like, three pawns in the first one, and then we drew.
第二盘我多了一个子，结果又和了。
And then I was up, like, a piece in the second one, and then we drew again.
从那以后，局面就一路下滑了。
And then it was a little downhill from there.
对此我特别不满意。
So I was very unhappy about that.
后来我去法国参加了多勒公开赛，那比赛挺有意思的，但我也在那儿丢了一些分。
I afterwards, I went and played this open in France, Dole Open, which was very fun event, but it also, you know, I think I ended up losing some ring there.
我输给了几个2200多分的棋手。
I lost to, like, couple 22 hundreds.
又是挺让人失望的一系列结果。
So again, very disappointing stuff.
卡丽莎怎么了？
Carissa was?
是的
Yeah.
我觉得是那个大瑞士赛。
I think it was the grand No.
不是。
No.
你不错。
You're good.
那场比赛是在九月份的乌兹别克斯坦举行的。
It was held in, like, Uzbekistan in September.
是的
Yeah.
那是我第一次参加大瑞士赛，我特别想表现好，结果却打得特别差。
That one, I it was my first grand Swiss, and I really, really want to do well, but I just I had such a disappointing performance.
不过话说回来，也没糟糕到那种地步。
I think I it wasn't so bad as all things go.
我觉得我丢了大概六分左右，但那时候一场比赛接一场比赛，感觉自己的状态越来越不对劲。
I think I lost, like, six points or something, but it was just it was just kinda, like, mid event after mid event and kinda felt like I was losing my touch.
紧接着又是美国女子组比赛的前三分之一段，更是雪上加霜。
And then especially followed up with, like, the first third of US women's.
我当时就纳闷，这到底是怎么了？
And I was just like, what's what's happening?
我感觉自己好像突然就崩了，完全想不通原因。
Like, I feel like, you know, I was crashing out to wonder about this.
我真的搞不懂现在是什么情况。
I don't know what's going on.
我怎么打得这么差？
Like, why am I playing so badly?
我的成绩怎么就一路下滑？
Why are my results so bad?
反正就是一堆乱七八糟的事。
Blah blah blah.
我觉得还好吧。
I think okay.
首先，赢了这场冠军赛后，我感觉好多了。
Well, first of I'm feeling a lot better after after this win, this championship win.
现在不用再那么拼命挣扎了。
So no longer so much in the trenches.
总的来说，你得相信自己，这种事谁都可能遇上，对吧？
I think generally, you kinda just have to have faith and it just I think it happens to everyone, You know?
比如阿文在瑞士大奖赛上就突然爆发了。
Like, Awonder had this big breakthrough at Grand Swiss.
他的积分一下子涨到了2710。
Rating jumped up to, 27, 10.
是的。
Yeah.
那真是太棒了。
That was awesome.
这是，一个
It's, an
他职业生涯的最高纪录。
all time all time high for him.
不过，你知道，我觉得其实过去一年左右，他一直在努力突破2700分，毕竟他参加的比赛太多了。
But, you know, I think, actually, in the last, like, year or so, he had been, like, trying so hard to cross 2,700 if you play so many tournaments.
然后他就会特别沮丧，因为总是差一点点，比如2698、2699之类的，结果跟个2500分的棋手和棋，分数又掉回去了。
And then he'd be so frustrated because, like, you you know, he'll come so close, like, 26, 98, 99 or something, and then he'll, like, draw some 2,500 and rain goes back down.
所以我觉得那对他来说也挺棘手的，因为他的等级分一直在2690到2699之间徘徊，他到处参加比赛，就是想突破2700分。
So he was also I think it's also it was also tricky for him because his rating was, like, just flowing around, you know, between like twenty six ninety, twenty six ninety nine, and he's going around playing all these events trying to cross 2,700.
但就是没能如愿。
It just wasn't happening right.
我觉得，是的，这种压力确实挺搞心态的，但他从来没有真正停止过比赛或训练。
And I think, yeah, it can get hard emotionally, but it's not like he ever really stopped playing or working.
然后在瑞士赛上，他终于突破了。
And then I grew in Swiss.
他就这样，嗯。
He just yeah.
他在那里打了一场特别出色的比赛。
He had like a fantastic event there.
然后一下子，2710分了。
And bam, twenty seven, ten.
我觉得对我而言，要接受进步从来不是线性的，这确实挺难的。
And I think kind of for for me too, it's kind of a difficult thing to try to accept that, like, progress is never linear, you know?
是的。
Yeah.
有时候你刚经历一连串好成绩，感觉特别好，可突然间分数又掉下去了。
Because sometimes you could be just feeling so good after, like, a a hot streak of events and then all of a sudden it just goes goes back down.
然后你就想，这到底是怎么回事？
And you're like, what what's happening?
我觉得这可能是当一名职业棋手最难熬的地方之一。
And I think that's maybe one of the hardest parts of being a chess professional.
其实倒不是下棋本身，比如研究、训练或者对局这些，反而是能不能以健康的方式管理好自己的情绪。
Not so much actually, like the actual chess, like studying or working or playing itself so much, but kind of being able to regulate your emotions well in a healthy way.
你知道吗，有些人真的会陷入极度的痛苦，干脆好几个月都不想碰棋了。
You know, I think there are some people who could just have such a bad torment and like, actually, I just, I don't wanna get chess for like several months, you know?
没错。
Right.
这种状况当然每个人都要找到适合自己的方式来调整心态，但竞技国际象棋就是特别——说不清为什么，情绪上特别强烈、特别揪心。
That sort of and obviously, I think, yeah, people kinda have to do what they have to do to get their mind straight, but competitive chess is just so I don't know, there's something so emotional and intense about it.
你说是吧。
You know?
就算我还没当职业棋手的时候，只是随便玩玩，可一旦输了一场糟糕的棋，我就特别难受，简直糟透了。
I feel like even when I wasn't a professional player, I play casually for fun, but, you know, I lose a bad game and then I'm just so, you know, I feel like awful, just like completely horrible.
我觉得对职业棋手来说，这种感觉更严重，毕竟输赢背后的东西实在太多。
And I think it's kind of worse for for pros because, yeah, there's just so much more on the line.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
不好意思。
Sorry.
我猜我还没回答怎么度过低谷期这个问题。
I guess I never answered the question of how to get through the slump.
我觉得在比赛期间，你还是得继续下后面的棋。
I think maybe like in a tournament itself, you still have like games to to keep playing.
对吧？
Right?
所以尽量摆脱坏心情，做点别的事情。
So kind of just try and get out of a bad mood, do something different.
比赛期间我一般有固定流程，但如果状态不好，我就会经常换一换节奏。
During tournaments, I kind of like to have a routine, but if my chest is going poorly, then I like to switch up the routine a lot.
是的。
Yeah.
那会儿真的特别糟。
Was like super yeah.
我跟珍妮弗下了一盘棋，我想是她。
I had this game against Jennifer, I think.
那盘棋我简直太不满意了。
And I was just I was so unhappy with that game.
下得实在太差了。
Was such a horrible game I played.
而且我当时特别郁闷，因为艾丽丝在我走完那步长将之后，领先优势又拉大了一分。
And I think also I was like really unhappy because Alice had extended her lead by a full point after after I made that draw.
我没输，但就是特别不爽。
Like, I didn't even lose, but I was just, yeah, I was not happy.
后来我想了想，做了件事：离棋社不远有家书店。
And then I think what I did was there's, this bookstore over close to the Chess Club.
我就去那家书店，坐了几个小时，光看书了。
So I just walked to the bookstore, and I sat there for, like, a couple hours just reading.
那真的很有帮助。
And it that was very helpful.
能让我把烦恼暂时放下。
Just takes my mind off things.
我的建议是，找点你真正喜欢的事做，能让你从自己的情绪里抽离出来。
Think and my advice is just, like, just do do something that you like really enjoy that kinda takes you out of your head in that sense.
比如，我读一本好书，就会忍不住感叹。
Because, you know, like I can read a great book and I'll be like, wow.
原来世界这么美好，远比我刚刚搞砸的那盘棋要广阔得多。
Actually, the world is so beautiful and so much bigger than like this one chess game that I just, like, completely messed up.
所以这确实管用。
So so that helps.
然后呢，从更大的角度看。
And then kind of yeah.
从整体来看，确实可能经历一连串糟糕的打击。
In a big picture sense, I think, yeah, there could definitely be a series of terrible torments.
你可能会陷入低谷很久，几个月，甚至几年。
You could be in a slump for so long, months, years.
几年啊，确实如此。
Years is yeah.
几年可不容易熬啊。
Years is tough.
但说实话，真的可能长达好几年。
But, yeah, honestly, years.
我就曾经连续五年，评分一直没变，简直荒唐。
Like, I'm that was kinda like the same rating for five years or something ridiculous like that.
但我觉得，只要你坚持下去，相信自己，总会有转机。
But, I think you could kinda just keep keep going at it and kind of trust in yourself.
有时候你也能真切地感受到，自己做的事到底有没有效果，是不是真的对你有帮助。
Maybe at some point also, like, if I think sometimes you can, like, really feel if what you're doing is working, if it's good for your chest or not.
就像我说的，从学到东西到真正融入实战，中间总得有一段缓冲期，结果不会立刻跟上。
Like like I said, there takes some time between, like there's some time between, like, how long it takes for your results to catch up with, like, what you you've been learning when it comes to, like, integrating chest knowledge into your actual gameplay.
不过我觉得你能感觉到，如果你的胸肌在进步，那只是时间问题，整体表现迟早会跟上；但如果发现现在的方法不适合你，那就另当别论了。
But I think you can kinda feel it that if if your chest is improving and it just is, a matter of time before it catches up over the board versus if kind of what you're doing is just not the right thing for you.
我觉得，过一段时间后，你完全不必害怕去尝试改变一下训练方式。
Like, I think you should never kind of be afraid to try to switch it up after a bit.
这些建议都很实用。
A lot of good advice there.
第一点我想提一下，挺有意思的，因为你已经拿过四次U级冠军了。
Number one, just want to point out, it's funny because you've won four U.
S.
S.
三连冠。
Championships, three in a row.
听到你用这种巨大的挣扎来形容，真的让人意识到国际象棋有多难。
To hear it phrased as this massive struggle, it really underscores how difficult Chess is.
我理解你的意思，就是你的等级分之前一直没怎么涨，直到最近才有所提升。
Because I get what you're saying about like your rating hadn't recent, hadn't gone up that much until recently.
这充分说明了高低起伏的幅度有多大——像你这样成就卓著的棋手都会有这样的感受，那我们普通人，不管是职业选手还是像我这样的业余爱好者，自然也会有同样的体验。
And it really just shows the degree of the ups and downs that if a player who has accomplished as much as you have feels them, obviously we're all gonna feel them, whether we're professionals or more commonly amateurs like me.
然后我想念一段话给你听。
And then I wanted to read you a quote.
不过在念之前，你记得当时在书店里看的是哪本书吗？
Well, actually, before I read you this quote, what, do you remember what book you were reading at the bookstore?
在书店？
At the bookstore?
是的。
Yeah.
是克莱尔·基根的《那些微小的事》。
It was Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan.
推荐吗？
Recommend or?
当然推荐。
Oh, absolutely.
这就像一个特别短的小故事。
It's like a short, short story.
我觉得我大概不到一个小时就看完了，但是……
I think I finished in probably under an hour, but
真的让人惊叹。
it's Wow.
你完全沉浸进去了。
Very You really got yourself lost.
太棒了。
That's cool.
是的。
Yeah.
非常非常推荐。
Highly, highly recommend.
这本书真的很不错。
It's a, it's very good.
就像我之前说的，这算个短篇故事，但我挺喜欢这种的。
It's yeah, like I said, kind of a short story, but I like those.
好的，接下来是几句很有智慧的话：我渐渐明白，你真的会陷在所有那些‘如果当初不一样’的假设里。
Okay, and then here are the wise words, quote, I've learned however that you really can lose yourself in all the way things could have gone differently.
遗憾这东西挺微妙的，毕竟在这种情况下，反复琢磨‘如果’是很自然的人性反应，但很少能带来真正的收获。
Regrets are a funny thing because in the end, in this situation you have, thinking about all the what ifs is a natural inhuman instinct, but it rarely goes anywhere truly productive.
天哪。
My God.
你一开口我就知道要糟。
You started it and I was like, Oh no.
不，这真是个动人又真实的洞见。
No, it's a really touching and true insight.
这段话出自卡丽莎2025年2月在《国际象棋生活》上的文章。
It's from Carissa's Chess Life article in February 2025.
我的意思是，真的很有道理。
So, I mean, really did.
我觉得整篇文章写得非常好，尤其是那一部分，特别打动我。
I thought the whole article was well written and that part really resonated in particular.
所以我想知道，你平时喜欢写作吗？有没有打算多写一些？
So I'm curious if you enjoy writing and if it's something you see yourself doing more of.
当然喜欢。
Absolutely.
其实还得谢谢你提这个问题。
Actually, you for this question.
我觉得写作才是我最大的热情，甚至超过国际象棋。
I would say writing is actually probably biggest passion for me, more so than Chess.
不过，我个人不太喜欢写那种太私人的东西，说实话。
I actually don't really like personal pieces so much, I guess.
我不太愿意写关于自己的事。
I don't like writing about myself.
而且，写国际象棋我也觉得特别难。
And I also find it very difficult to write about Chess.
但我喜欢写那种评论类的文章，更多是表达我对世界的看法，而不是关于我自己的事。
But I think I like writing, you know, sort of like more commentary ish pieces, more like my thoughts on the world as opposed to like my thoughts on me myself.
不过说实话，我是个特别爱写作的人。
But yeah, I'm a huge writer.
我其实还维持着一份通讯，定期发给大约四十个关系最亲近的朋友。
I actually, I I keep like a newsletter that I send out to like 40 of my closest friends.
内容通常比较随意，聊聊我最近在忙什么，对一些时事的看法，或者脑子里冒出来的一些想法。
So it'll kind of just be like, you know, be very general, like what I've been up to recently, world events I wanna comment on, maybe like some sort of ideas that I've been messing around in my head.
这真的很好，因为能让我和那些平时联系不多的老朋友保持联络。
And it's really great because, you know, I think it's a good way to keep in contact with old friends that, you know, maybe I don't talk so frequently to.
他们会回复我说，嘿，这个观点我特别喜欢。
But they'll respond and be like, you know, I actually, like, I really like this idea.
想多聊聊这个话题，然后我们就展开讨论。
I wanna talk about it more, and then we discuss it.
没错。
And yeah.
你有没有想过以这种方式更公开地写作，比如开个博客之类的？
Do you have any thoughts of like writing in that way more publicly, like a blog or something like that?
Substack
Substack
算是吧。
sort Yeah.
就是开个Substack。
Of Like a a substack.
对。
Yeah.
其实好多朋友都劝我开个Substack，但我这个人吧，说不上特别内向，只是觉得现在这个阶段，我还在摸索自己，不太适合一下子公开。
Actually, a bunch of my friends are like, you should start a substack, but I think I tend to be I wouldn't say I'm like the most private person, but I think probably start the age where I'm trying to figure myself out a little bit.
所以我写的东西挺私人的。
So a lot of what I write is quite personal.
在还没更清楚自己是谁之前，我大概不太想把这些内容完全公开。
I probably wouldn't wanna make it so public until, yeah, I guess I'm more sure of person than I am.
这我能理解。
That makes sense.
我的意思是，我像你这么大的时候，干的任何事都不会留下永久记录。
Mean, it's so like when I was your age, everything you did didn't go on your permanent record.
你就算犯个错，也不会被拍成视频传到网上，让别人一辈子都能看到。
You could like, you know, make some mistake and it's not going to necessarily be like captured in a video on the internet for everyone to see for the rest of their lives.
或者你说错话了，也不会立刻被反复传播。
Or like, if you misspeak or something, you know, it's not necessarily going to be reverberating
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得成长本身本来就是个挺混乱的过程。
The same I think just like, like growing up can be such a messy process.
我虽然22岁了，但还是觉得自己正在经历这个阶段。
You know, I guess I'm 22, but I still, I still feel like I'm kind of in that process.
我不太想把这段经历公之于众。
And it's, it's not something that I, I guess I want to be broadcasted to the world.
我觉得大多数人应该也有同样的感受。
And I, I would guess most people also feel that way.
对。
Yeah.
这说得通。
That makes sense.
你最近可真忙啊。
Well, you've been so busy lately.
有一场赛事我在这档播客里没提过，咱们也没聊过，就是你参加的那场中美对抗赛，那种独特的电子竞技赛制，和利维、萨加尔·沙赫，还有法比亚诺和伊普一起打的那场。
One tournament I didn't talk about on this podcast and we haven't talked about is you played in this USA versus India match, this sort of unique esports format with Levy and Sagar Shah, along with Fabiano and Carissa Yip:
说实话，特别有意思。
Honestly, it's so fun.
我觉得我之前其实都认识队里的所有人，就只有利维没见过。
I think I actually, I met everyone on the team before except Levy.
当然，我知道塔尼。
Of course, I think, you know, I knew Tani.
我以前在圣路易斯就认识法比安了。
I, knew Favi from St.
也见过她的车。
Louis, her car as well.
至于莱维，我不确定我们之前有没有在现实中见过面。
Levy, I think we only I'm actually not sure if we had never met in real life.
不过，我觉得整个团队特别棒。
But, yeah, I think the team was great.
我们玩得特别开心。
We had we had a lot of fun.
这个比赛的形式真的很酷，尤其是把国际象棋变成观赛运动这一点。
It was like I think first of it was like very cool concept just kind of in terms of how chess can be a spectator sport.
现场有一千多人在看我们下棋，气氛真的特别热烈。
There are like over a thousand people in the stadium watching us play, and honestly, the energy was so electric.
记得我们第一场是法比安和阿尔琼对局，观众都疯了。
I guess, remember our first match was, like, Fabi and Arjun, and just the crowd was going crazy.
我们简直疯了。
Like, we were going crazy.
我们当时在台上，坐在电脑后面的桌旁。
We were, like, up on stage, right, behind like, at a desk behind these computers.
印度队在舞台另一侧，而他们正在对局的时候。
The Indian team was on the other side of stage and then in the middle of they were playing.
对吧？
Right?
我记得灯突然全灭了，观众都炸了。
But I remember like the lights went off, crowd was like losing their minds.
然后我们美国队的人全都互相看着对方。
And then the US team, we're just all looking at each other.
我们心想：天啊，这真的太疯狂了。
We're like, woah, this is like, this is actually insane.
这气氛简直燃到爆。
Like, this is insanely hype.
是的
Yeah.
我觉得能跟印度队的选手聊上几句，真的特别棒。
It's just I think it was so cool to get to talk to the Indian players a little bit as well.
他们人特别友善和善。
And they were very kind and nice.
我也挺喜欢他们的。
Like them a lot too.
对
Yeah.
Goodcast拍到了一张粉丝的照片。
Goodcast got a fan pic.
对吧
Right?
没错
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
他确实做到了。
Like, he did.
阿琼其实也一样。
So did Arjun, actually.
还没发出来，不过也许以后会发。
Haven't posted that one yet, but maybe maybe at some point.
是的。
Yeah.
但我觉得能跟他们聊上几句真是太好了。
But I think it was great just to get to talk to them a little bit.
当然，美国队也特别有意思。
And then, of course, the the American team was so much fun.
你觉得呢？
What do you think?
是的。
Yeah.
有个有趣的事。
Funny story.
我想起来，Awonder 当时问过我，你给Divya做准备了吗？
So I remembered, like, Awonder had been like, have you prepped for Divya yet?
我觉得那场比赛是周六。
I think the match was on Saturday.
那时候还是周三呢。
This is, like, Wednesday before.
我就说，没有。
And I was like I was like, no.
他问我，你看过她的对局吗？
And he's like, have you looked at her games?
我说，天啊，还没看。
And I was like, oh, no.
然后他跟我说，爸，你知道吗，教练一直在催我这事。
And then he was like, dad, like, you know, he's really getting on me about it as a coach.
我说，好吧。
I was like, okay.
行吧。
Fine.
行吧。
Fine.
不好意思。
Sorry.
那周我其实有点不舒服。
I actually got, like, a little bit sick that week.
所以我一直没空看任何资料，直到周四得飞去达拉斯，周五还有媒体日之类的安排。
So then I didn't get a chance to look at anything until, like, maybe I had to fly out to Dallas on, like, Thursday, and then Friday, there's, like, media day and stuff.
不过我还是尽量在那之前和比赛前抽空做了点准备。
But I was trying to do a little bit prep then and before the match as well.
所以呢，大家陆续到了，我们就随便聊了聊。
So, you know, everyone was arriving, and then we were, like, just chatting.
我当时就说，哎，我正跟美国队的人聊天呢。
I was like, oh, you know, I'm just talking to the American team.
我就问他们，你们有没有做点准备？
Was like, have you guys, like, done any prep?
他们说，没有。
And they're like, no.
绝对没做。
Definitely not.
他们还问我，你懂我的意思吧？
And they're like, you know what mean?
我就随便打点什么好了。
I'll just play something random.
我打算对加泰罗尼亚队打个三号牛肉什么的。
I'll play, beef three or something for the Catalan.
我当时就说，等等。
And I was like, wait.
根本没人做准备。
No one's done any prep.
这事儿怎么就全压在我头上了？
Like, why is the wonder on me about this?
我们当时正在吃午饭，Bobby 就问，我该走兵三还是马三？
And, you know, we were, like, actually at lunch, and then Bobby was like, should I play, like, one c three or should I play one knight c three?
我们干脆扔硬币决定。
And we flip flip the coin on it.
他最后走了兵三，我觉得这步比马三好得多。
I think he ended up playing c three, which I would say is a better move than knight c three.
对。
Yeah.
后来呢，其实我还是想再准备一下。
And then, you know, actually, I I still wanted to prep.
我记得比赛前一个小时，我们全都待在团队房间里。
So I remember it would be like it was like an hour before the match, and then we were just all in our team room.
我就问大家：面对e5，我该选法兰西防御、西西里防御还是奥布林防御？
And then I was like, guys, like, what should I play against e five, French, Carissa Sicily and Oblivant.
于是鲍比、希卡鲁、莱米塔尼亚他们纷纷给我出主意。
So, like, Bobby, Hikaru, Lemitania, they just gave me all of these ideas.
他们说：你可以试试这个。
They're like, you could try this.
也可以试试那个。
You could try this.
这样也不差。
It wouldn't be bad.
在快棋里用这个思路挺不错的，诸如此类。
It's a good idea in rapid, that sort of thing, etcetera.
最后我们采纳了一个点子，实战效果还不错。
And then we got one of the ideas over the board, so it was good.
不错。
Nice.
那你喜欢这种电子竞技的现场氛围吗？
And so do you like the sort of esports presentation?
我的意思是，就算只是作为参与者，听起来也挺有意思的。
I mean, it sounds like it was fun to be a participant if nothing else.
哦，当然，当参与者特别有意思。
Oh, absolutely it was fun to be a participant.
这大概是我第一次接触这种电子竞技相关的活动。
I guess this is my first time with esports type stuff.
我觉得现场的气氛真的特别棒。
I think it's it was definitely very good energy.
我很喜欢这一点。
So I like that a lot.
我得说，我算个有点传统的国际象棋爱好者。
I'll say I'm a bit of a chess purist.
我最钟爱的棋类时间控制是古典赛制。
So I do my favorite time control is classical.
不过，偶尔玩一下也挺好的。
But, yeah, kind of in terms of Oh, once
偶尔玩一次，感觉还挺棒的。
in a while, it's good.
是的。
Yeah.
偶尔玩一次真的特别有意思。
Once in a while, it's it's a lot of fun.
其实也不用等到偶尔，我挺愿意经常玩的。
I I well, not even once in a while, I'd be happy to do it pretty often.
说实话，我只是不希望它取代古典赛制成为主流。
Honestly, it's just a, I wouldn't want it to dominate more replace classical.
还有一件特别荒唐的事，就是卡丽莎把棋子扔进了观众席。
And there was this utterly ridiculous controversy about Carissa throwing a piece into the crowd.
这看起来有点早有预谋。
It seemed a bit premeditated.
他们让你把棋子扔给观众了吗，卡丽莎？
Did they ask you to throw a piece into the crowd, Carissa?
是的，其实我该说的。
Yeah, actually I should.
对。
Yeah.
我一直没机会细说这件事。
I never got a chance to elaborate on this.
谢谢你问起。
So thanks for asking.
嗯。
Yeah.
其实他们当时只有两套棋具。
So actually they had gone, like they only had two sets.
这些是全新的DGT棋具。
So these are, like, the brand new DGT sets.
DGT那边只寄来了两套。
DGT could only send over two of them.
其实吧，他们那边也挺为难的，说哎呀，就这两套。
So actually, you know, they're, like, they're like, oh, no.
如果你赢了，应该搞点庆祝的举动。
If you win, you should do something celebratory.
我记得我当时是把对手的国王拿起来，举在半空中。
Like, I think what I did was, like, I picked up my opponent's king and I just held it in the air.
所以呢，就是这样。
So yeah.
其实主办方之前就建议我们这么做。
So the orientators had asked us to do something like that.
但没办法，我们只有两套棋具。
But, yeah, we only had two sets.
所以一共就两套。
So they're, like, two sets.
实际上，前三场比赛都不能对棋具造成任何损坏。
So actually, the first three matches can't, like, destroy anything on the set.
但最后两盘棋，莱维和光子，他们确实这么做了。
But the last two games, Levy and Hikari, right, they're like, yeah.
你完全可以把国王棋子砸了。
Like, you could just you could smash the king.
你可以把它扔出去，直接摔碎了都行。
You could, like, throw it into the you could just, like, break it.
他们的意思是，搞点大动静出来。
And they're like, do do something big.
我根本没人让我去砸棋子之类的。
So I wasn't I I was not asked to, like, break the king or anything.
只是让我拿它做点什么。
Was asked to do something with it.
然后呢，我觉得 Hakaru 也是这么想的。
And then, you know, I think Hakaru was like yeah.
其实我们之前就聊过这事。
We had been like we were talking about it beforehand.
当时在场的人都知道。
Like, every everyone was there.
你懂的。
You know?
Hakaru 之前也说过，没错。
Hakaru before was like, yeah.
我的意思是，他根本没打算真把国王棋子砸了。
Like, I mean, he's he's like, I'm not gonna break the king or anything.
顶多就是随手扔进观众席里。
Maybe I'll, like, toss it into the crowd.
那后来怎么样了？
So what happened?
我觉得也是。
And I think yeah.
事情发生的时候，体育场里的气氛特别热烈。
When it happened, the energy in the stadium was great.
所有人都疯了。
Like, everyone went crazy over it.
之后这事在网上爆了，引发了一场巨大的争议。
And then I guess it blew up online and generated kind of a a massive controversy.
大多数人其实都觉得这根本不算什么事，但确实有一群特别死忠的古克什支持者——
I mean, for the most part, think people understand that it wasn't really a big deal, but there are a lot of very hardcore, Gukesh-
对。
Yeah.
支持者。
Defenders.
但我认为这事儿挺好的。
But I think it was good.
我的意思是，这多少给赛事带来了一些关注。
I mean, kind of like generates a little bit of attention for the event.
对吧？
Right?
后来我跟皮卡尔聊了聊，他其实根本没放在心上。
And, you know, I talked to Picard about it afterwards, and he really didn't care that much.
真的。
Literally.
是的。
Yeah.
我想他大概早就习惯了网上有人黑他吧。
I guess maybe he's kind of used to people hating on him or something on Twitter.
所以这事儿真不算什么。
So it's no biggie.
不过说实话，我觉得任何理智的人都能看出来，这根本不是什么恶意行为，纯粹就是为现场气氛服务的。
But, yeah, I mean, I I think any reasonable person kind of and then everyone came out with their own thing afterwards, so I think any reasonable person could tell it was not like an asshole type move, but just for the crowd.
是啊，说白了就是搞个表演，我能理解。
Yeah, I mean, just trying to put on a show, I understand.
那些不爽的人，不看就行了。
And the people who are upset about it, you don't have to watch.
我其实挺爱看的。
I actually, I watch.
我年纪大了，习惯了传统国际象棋，事后才补看的，但也没人逼着你看啊。
I'm old and washed and used to classical chess, so I only caught up afterwards, but no one's forcing you.
所以也是。
So Yeah.
对啊。
Yeah.
广告后继续为您带来卡丽莎·叶的更多内容。
We'll be back with more from IM Carissa Yip after the break.
卡丽莎，我们还有几个听众的问题，问完你就可以走了。
Well, Carissa, we have a couple more listener questions before we let you get out of here.
非常感谢你抽出时间来参加。
Really appreciate you taking the time.
这次对话真是太棒了。
This has been amazing.
当然。
Absolutely.
下一个问题是来自伊戈尔·费恩斯坦的。
The next one is from Igor Feinstein.
谢谢你支持我们的播客，伊戈尔。
So thanks for helping us support the pod, Igor.
朱迪特·波尔加巅峰时期的等级分超过2700，曾位列世界前十。
It's Judit Polgar's peak rating was over 2,700, and she was a top 10 player in the world.
现在下棋的女性多了很多，但还没人能达到她的高度。
Now there are many more women in chess, but no one else has yet attained her level.
你觉得为什么至今还没人能像她那样统治棋坛？是不是跟性别差异有关？
Do you have a take on what could be construed as a gender gap for why no one has matched Judit's dominance just yet?
是的，这个问题问得非常好。
Yeah, this is a really good question.
首先，我觉得下棋赢不赢，与其说是生理上的差异，不如说更多是社会现象。
First of I think the issue of winning chess is not so much of a, let's say, biological thing or whatever, as so much a sociological phenomenon.
从纯粹的人数比例来看，这其实挺合理的。
Just in terms of pure numbers, kinda makes sense.
再想想，为什么女性很少能突破2600分，进入2700分的顶尖行列呢？
Think also in terms of why, like, let's say women are not really crossing 2,600 barrier or making it into 2,700 club.
我现在以棋为业，对这个问题的理解，比以前还在上学、忙着平衡学业时要深多了。
I think now I'm doing chess professionally, I kind of get a better understanding of this than when people would ask me this question before my balancing school and stuff.
但要真正变得特别厉害，真的会耗尽你所有的精力。
But just becoming like really good just takes so much out of you.
有些天才少年确实能年纪轻轻就达到顶尖水平。
I mean, are like certain prodigies who can make it so young.
对吧？
Right?
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。