本集简介
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仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
欢迎收听《莉莉的图片》播客复古版。
Welcome to the Pictures of Lily podcast vintage edition.
我是主持人莫亚里。
I'm your host, Moayeri.
我从1992年起就做音乐记者，经常采访各种音乐圈的人。
I've been a music journalist since 1992, and I interview a lot of music related people.
这个播客讲的是我背后的故事——做采访的真实经历，让你看看录音机另一头是什么样子。
This podcast is about my experiences behind the story, what my experience is doing the interviews just to give you a snapshot of what it's like on the other side of the digital recorder.
过去几年，《莉莉的图片》播客逐渐转向复古版，我会分享一些特定采访的幕后经历，还会附上当年受访艺人原始的录音片段。
Over the last couple of years of the Pictures of Lily podcast, we've shifted to the vintage edition where I am sharing experiences about specific interviews with the bonus of original audio from the artists in those interviews.
这些采访素材都来自我三十年的档案库，很多都是录在磁带上的。
These interviews pull from my thirty three year archive, many of which are recorded on cassette tape.
感谢大家收听《莉莉的图片》播客复古版。
Thank you everyone for tuning in to the Pictures of Lily podcast vintage edition.
这是第六年第九十八期。
This is year six episode 98.
我们每月更新一次，新节目在每个月的第二个星期三上线。
We publish monthly with a new episode posting on the second Wednesday of each month.
你可以在所有平台找到我们，只需访问 picturesoflily.com，订阅或关注我们，还可以在 Instagram、Facebook、YouTube、Pandora 和 Amazon 上与我们互动。
You can find us on every platform by going to picturesoflily.com where you can subscribe or follow us and also connect to us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Pandora, and Amazon.
不过，最推荐的还是直接到 picturesoflily.com 听播客，因为那里的音质最好，也不会遇到版权问题。
Although it's really best to listen to the podcast straight from the source at picturesoflily.com as it is the highest quality audio and avoids copyright restrictions.
这一期是我1999年第二次采访Oasis乐队的诺尔·加拉格。
This episode is my second interview with Oasis' Noel Gallagher from 1999.
下面是一些我第二次采访诺尔·加拉格时的片段。
Here are a few snapshots of my second interview with Noel Gallagher of Oasis.
在听这一期之前，我强烈建议你先回听2020年发布的那期关于诺尔·加拉格的原始节目，然后再听2022年发布的我1995年第一次采访他的那一期。
Before listening to this episode, I would highly recommend going back and listening to the original Pictures of Lily podcast episode on Noel Gallagher that was published in 2020, then listening to the episode with my first interview with Noel from 1995, which was published last year.
2020年的那期节目，讲的是我在Oasis成名前和诺尔的交往经历。
The 2020 episode goes into my experiences with Noel from before he was even in Oasis.
去年那期——也就是我1995年对诺尔的第一次采访——能帮你更好地理解这一期的内容。
Last year's episode, which is my interview with Noel from 1995, will prime you for this one.
我会在本集的备注里附上这两期节目。
I will link both of them in this episode's notes.
本集的采访是在1999年12月15日，于圣莫尼卡的卡萨德尔马酒店的一间套房内面对面进行的，当时Oasis正在宣传专辑《站在巨人肩上》。
The interview in this episode took place in person at a suite at Casa Del Mar Hotel in Santa Monica on 12/15/1999 at the time of Oasis' album Standing on the Shoulder of Giants.
巧合的是，这正好是我们第一次采访后的五年零十天，那次采访就在隔壁酒店，离这儿只有几步远。
Coincidentally, five years and ten days after our first interview, which happened just a few feet away at the hotel next door.
这次采访是临时安排的，我刚和诺尔聊完，他就启程回英格兰过节了，这也是他离开前的最后一场采访。
This was a last minute assignment for which I spoke to Noel, and it was his last interview before leaving to return to England for the holidays.
和上一次采访不同，那时诺尔正处于派对巅峰期，我们聊得很随意；而这次他刚戒了毒，我们俩都显得很正式，甚至有点紧张。
Unlike the previous interview where Noel was at the height of his partying and our interaction was quite informal, this interview was after Noel stopped taking drugs as it were, and we were pretty professional and frankly a little on edge.
我们聊了他戒毒的事，还有他单飞的打算。
We talk about him stopping taking drugs, going solo.
这距离Oasis解散还有十年，但我们谈到了他并不想离开乐队，也谈到了化学兄弟。
This is ten years before the Oasis split, but also about how he doesn't wanna leave the band and the Chemical Brothers.
采访一开始，我让诺尔确认一下录音机确实在录音。
At the start, I tasked Noel with making sure the tape recorder is in fact recording.
这是完整的采访内容。
Here's our interview in its entirety.
一字未删。
No edits.
只要红灯在闪，我们就没问题，对吧，诺尔？
As long as the red light's going on and off, we're cool, aren't No.
不一定。
Not necessarily.
你得
You have
那好吧。
to Alright then.
确保那段一直在录。
Make sure that that bit keeps going.
哦。
Oh.
得一直动着。
Has to keep moving.
哦，明白了。
Oh, okay.
红灯就只是在那里亮着。
Red light's just there.
好的。
Alright.
这是为了骗你的。
It's to deceive you.
所以……
So
你打算选什么歌？
what did you have in mind for a song?
嗯，我其实也没想好。
Well, I didn't I don't I don't know.
我只是不想再搞一张像《Be Here Now》那样的专辑了。
I just didn't really wanna make like a record like BA now again.
所以我们决定换制作人，去法国录专辑，也调整了一下常驻录音室的人员。
So we decided just to change producers and record it in France and change some of the personnel around who would, you know, who would generally have in the studio.
希望这样能让乐队的声音有点新意——结果确实做到了。
And hopefully that would bring something new to the the sound of the band, which which it did do in the end.
创作上，我想弄点更贴近当下感觉的东西，但还是保留我们擅长的摇滚元素。
But generally in the writing, I just wanted to make something a little bit more contemporary while still keeping the the elements of what we're good at, which is rock and roll music really.
你说的‘贴近当下’是指什么？
What do you mean by contemporary?
比如用鼓循环、奇怪的键盘音效这类有意思的东西，而不是单纯地……你刚才说不想再做像什么的？
You know, drum loops and funny keyboard noises and stuff that's interesting as opposed to stuff that's just What do mean you didn't wanna make something like
《Be Here Now》？
Be Here Now?
《Be Here Now》是什么？
What is Be Here Now?
那些歌实在太长了。
Well, it's too those songs are too long.
对。
Uh-huh.
说实话，有一半的歌根本不合格。
Basically, not well, 50% of the songs are really not up to scratch or anything.
歌词简直一塌糊涂。
The lyrics are just rubbish.
我花在《Be Here Now》上的时间多得多，写了整整两周，效果就摆在那儿了。而这张专辑我花了一年写歌，以后我打算就这么干了——专辑之间多留点时间打磨创作，而不是别人一说‘工作室两周后就订好了’，我就得赶工。
I spent a lot more time working on well, Be Here Now, I spent two weeks writing it and it shows in that record and this one took a year to write and I think I think that's what I'll be doing from now on, it's taking more time in between albums to to do the writing as opposed to somebody saying, look, we've got the studio booked in two weeks.
然后我就想，天哪，行吧，那我赶紧把歌写出来。
And I go, oh fuck, alright, okay, I'll write the songs then.
是的。
Mhmm.
你懂的。
You know?
而且我不再碰毒品，也不喝酒了，这些都帮了大忙。
And not taking drugs anymore helped a lot and not drinking and all that stuff helped.
所以一切都挺好的，真的，一切都
So it was all good, man, it was all
具体在哪些方面有帮助？
It helped in what were?
你看，我现在重新找回了写歌的专注力，你知道的。
Well, look, you know, I've got my focus back for writing songs, know.
我整整两年没碰过毒品了，感觉比这辈子任何时候都好，真的。
I mean, I haven't done drugs now for two years and it's just I've done felt better in my fucking life ever, you know.
我写完歌、录完小样之后，心里特别清楚自己想要什么，一切都明明白白的。以前我整天迷迷糊糊，就像陷在暴风雪里，根本没法做事，没法集中精神，懒洋洋的，反正啥都挑最省事的做，因为写歌、录歌本来就是件苦差事。
I knew exactly what once I'd once I'd written the songs and done the demos, knew exactly what I wanted and it was all very clear, opened, you know, it was like being in a fucking blizzard when you're just out of it all the time, you can't function, you can't focus, you just you get lazy, you just do the first thing that comes natural to you because doing work, being, you know, writing music and recording music is a chore.
它总在妨碍享受生活。
It gets in the way of the pie.
但这次就不一样了
Whereas this time it's just
就是确认一下。
Just making sure.
你知道的。
You know.
这次不一样了，那些乱七八糟的事都清干净了，咱们现在就专心做音乐吧。
This time around it was like, fuck with all that shit's out of the way, now let's go let's go make some music, man.
你以前跟我说过，你觉得你戒不掉。
You told me that you didn't think you could stop No.
四年前。
Four years ago.
对，但我确实戒了。
No, but I did.
你不是不想戒，你只是说，我其实很想戒。
It's not like you didn't want to because you're like, I'd like to.
是的。
Yeah.
我只是不确定这能不能做到。
I just don't know if it's gonna be possible.
不，但我确实做到了，那是个慢慢来的过程。我当时状态特别差，焦虑得厉害，老觉得要出事，就是那种老一套的状况。
No, but I did though and it was, you know, a gradual gradual thing where my elf was really fucking suffering really badly and it was like, I was getting really bad panic attacks and was convinced that I was, you know, the usual.
总觉得自己要心脏病发，还特别多疑。
Was convinced I was gonna have an heart attack, I was getting paranoid.
我去看了医生，他说，其实解决这一切很简单。
I went to see my doctor and he said, you know, well, there's an easy solution to all this.
他说，关键是你得戒掉毒品。
And he said, the thing is you just gotta stop taking drugs.
我当时就想，去他的，你啥也给不了我。
I was like, fucking bollocks can't give me anything.
他说，哦，如果你是这个意思，我当然可以给你开更多药。
And he said, well, I can give you he said, can give you more drugs, if that's what you mean.
我就说，嗯，你知道的，确实如此。
I was going, well, yeah, you know.
他接着说，那你岂不是又对那些该死的抗抑郁药上瘾了？
And he was going, but then you'd be addicted to fucking like, you know, like fucking antidepressants.
我说，不会吧。
And I was going, no.
那药是什么感觉？
What are they like?
他说，你吃了不会觉得飘飘然。
And he said, well, you don't get a buzz off them.
我心想，操。
I was going, fuck.
于是我决定试六个月，看看会怎样，我想着，嗯……
So I decided that I was gonna give it a go for about six months and see how it and I thought, well
你别联系土耳其了。
You won't call Turkey.
别再说了。
Just stop.
就这样。
Just like that.
有一天早上醒来，就彻底结束了。
Just woke up one day and that was it.
我把家里所有人都请走了，你是说那些人吗？
Cleared everyone out of the house, whoever the who are you?
你现在能走吗？
Can you leave now?
然后，是的，就这样结束了。
And then, yeah, just That was it.
就停了。
Just stopped.
大概六个月后，我决定先停六个月，把自己重新调整好。
And then after about six months, I decided I was gonna stop for six months and get me off back in order.
六个月后变成了八个月，接着是一年，再后来是一年半，现在都两年了，甚至现在我都能待在一群人正在做的房间里，心里想：我真的再也不想要了。
Then after six months, became eight months, and then it became a year, and then it became eighteen months, and now it's two years and it's like fucking I can even be in a room now where loads of people are doing it and I can go, you know, don't want it no more.
得说一句。
Have to say.
因为我之前给你照镜子的时候，就觉得，天啊，这下午的状态太糟了。
Because you're little off before I showed you in my mirror, I'm like, look, this is not good for the fuck in the afternoon.
我知道，很明显，那段时间确实很糟，
Know, and obviously, yeah, know it was bad,
对吧？
wasn't it?
但是呢，你知道的，
But but, you know
不过我今年早些时候见到你的时候就注意到了。
But I noticed that when I saw you earlier in the year.
是的。
Yeah.
我
I
我说，诺埃尔怎么了？
told that I'm like, what happened to Noel?
他看起来不错啊。
He's not looking bad.
他说，嗯，你知道的，他去泰国待了一阵子。
And he's like, yeah, well, you know, he's been in Thailand.
我就问，是这个原因吗？
I'm like, is that what it is?
再加上一个不错的发型？
And that definitely combined with a good haircut?
但现在都冬天了，你还是老样子。
But now that, you know, this is winter now and you still look the same.
是啊。
Yeah.
现在是你自己天生的气色了。
It's your own natural glow now.
对。
Yes.
就是吃得香、睡得也好，诸如此类吧。
Well, it's eating well and getting sleeping well and stuff like that.
我觉得最重要的是少喝酒，毕竟吸毒那事儿还说得过去。
I think the think the cutting down the drinking is the most important thing because the drugs are fair enough.
我的意思是，喝酒这事儿简直太容易上瘾了，你知道的。
Can I mean, the drinking thing is just a fucking it's, you know
这事儿做起来太简单了。
It's so easy to do it on
是吗？
Yeah?
因为喝酒是合法的，而且它不会……嗯，不像别的。
Because it's legal and stuff like that and it doesn't Yeah.
别人一看就说，哎，他就是喝醉了而已，但迟早会出问题的，你知道的。
And the people go, oh, well, he's only drunk, but sooner or later that catches up, you know.
而且希望吧，事情一直挺顺利的。
And hopefully, you know, it's been great.
我一次都没复发过，什么问题都没有。
I've not had any relapses or anything.
简直太棒了。
It's brilliant.
那真是一段特别痛快的时光。
That was a fucking jolly good time.
那你是怎么选的制作人？
So how did you decide on the producer?
我也不太清楚。
I don't know.
我们当时正在家附近看拳击赛，他就出现了，是那种大半夜三点还在美国活蹦乱跳的人。
We he just came to We were watching some boxing match around my house, and he's one of us that's been live for America about three in the morning.
他带着他老婆一起来的，他老婆是梅格的朋友。
And he turned up with his wife who's a mate who's a friend of Meg's.
我们当时聊得很开心，我听说过他，但对他一无所知。
And we were chatting away there and I I knew of him, but I didn't know anything about him.
我知道他跟U2和Massive Attack都合作过，还有别的大牌。
I knew he'd worked with U2 and Massive Attack and all
就是那些事儿。
that stuff.
对。
Yeah.
不过我们不太想提这些。
Well, we don't like to mention that.
他其实还跟辣妹组合合作过。
And he he and he was actually with the Spice Girls as well.
我们是在合作之后才听说的，当时你也在场。
Found out after we'd after we'd You
你们演出效果很不错。
have some good shows.
是的。
Yeah.
真的吗？
Really?
好吧。
Okay.
行。
Fine.
他一直在聊，然后问我说，哎，你最近在忙什么？
And he he was chatting away and he said, what you know, like, so what are you doing?
我说，哦，就是录了几首歌的小样。
I said, oh, you know, just demoing a bunch of songs.
他说，哦，能让我听听吗？
He said, oh, can I have a listen?
我就说，行啊，没问题。
So I said, yeah, alright.
我跟他聊了铺路的事，他一直说：‘哇，哇，简直太棒了’，巴拉巴拉的。
Talked Paving to him and he was going he's going, wow, wow, Fucking wow, blah, blah.
我们聊得很开心，后来到了要做决定的时候，我想，他可是做过不少当代流行唱片的制作人。
And we chatted away and then it was just like when we had to come and make a choice, thought, well, he's worked on contemporary modern records.
他好像并不担心跟我们合作，因为很多人一听说‘加拉格尔兄弟在同一间录音室’，都惊呆了。
He doesn't seem to be apprehensive about working with us because a lot of people go, what, the Gallagher brothers in the same studio?
你确定吗？
Are you fucking sure?
他对音乐特别兴奋，这最重要，后来我们问他，他点头答应了。
And he was getting really excited by the music, which is the main thing, and then we asked him and he said, yeah.
从一开始，我就觉得这事靠谱。
And it'll be I just had a good feeling about it from the start.
他也不沾毒品那一套，而且有个当家的能直接说：‘好了，听我的，就这么干’，这很有帮助。
He's not into drugs and all that stuff as well, and it helps if somebody who's in charge is like fucking saying, alright, look, this is how it's gonna be.
我们来这儿就是为了录一张专辑。
We're coming here to make a record.
以前呢，我们一到录音室就直接去酒吧喝个痛快，然后才回去录唱片。
Whereas the last times, we'd just all turn up the studio, we'd go to the fucking pub and then just get fucking out of it, and then make a record.
但这次不一样，我们先把唱片录完了，最后才喝酒，这样感觉特别好。
Whereas this time, we made the record first and then got drunk at the end, which was great.
我很期待下次再和他合作。
And I'm looking forward to working with him again.
你真打算再和他合作一次吗？
You're gonna do it again, think?
当然了。
Totally.
他用了不少Paul，还有Stacy。
And he used Paul quite a lot, Stacy.
Stacy，没错。
Stacy, yeah.
Griggs走之后，他负责了六首歌的贝斯，他的音乐素养比我高太多了。
Plays well, when Griggs left, I mean, played bass on six tracks and he's a far more accomplished musician than I'll ever be.
所以他是录到一半走的？
So he left during the recording?
他是在混音刚开始的时候离开的。
He left towards the beginning of the mixing.
明白了。
Okay.
等混音一结束，我们就觉得：行吧，他真要走了。
So when that when that was done, it was like, oh, alright, so he's fucking leaving.
所以我们就毫无顾忌地重录了那些部分。
So we had no qualms about redoing the stuff.
我负责了六首歌的贝斯，保罗负责了四首。
And so I played bass on six tracks and Paul played bass on four.
我还弹了所有额外的节奏部分，保罗则负责了一些主音吉他，毕竟他比我擅长得多。
And then I read on all bonus rhythm tracks and then Paul played some lead guitar because he's a better lead guitar player than I am.
就这样了。
And that was that.
他是个超棒的工程师，整张专辑里最出彩的时刻，我觉得就是《Who Feels Love》那首歌，那是我和他在我的卧室里一起搞出来的。
He's a brilliant engineer and his crowning moment on the whole record, think, is Who Feels Love, that me and him that me and him put together in my bedroom.
对。
Yeah.
那首歌完全是凭空冒出来的，就从一个和弦开始，后来自然而然就发展成那样了，所有倒放的音效都是他弄的。
And that just grew out of nothing, that just grew out of the one chord thing, it just flowed all the way and he plays all the backwards stuff on it and that.
但有他在身边真的特别好，因为他真的全身心投入，你懂我的意思吧？
But he was really good to have it around because he's he's into it, you know what I mean?
他以前没怎么干过这行，就做过一点零散的录音工作，没碰过什么大项目，所以不像那些老工程师，一上来就想着‘这活儿得按某某乐队的套路来’。
He's not someone who's he'd never worked he he'd done little bits of engineering but nothing really big and substantial, so he's not so when you get engineers and you're like, you want them to push them that little bit harder, they're sort of like, you know, we'll do this with such and such a band.
但他不一样，他真的全情投入，你懂我的意思吧？
But he's like, he's into it, you know what I mean?
他特别拼，这种人就该多留几个在身边，你懂的。
He's banging into it and you need need people like that around, you know.
是的。
Yeah.
我上次采访他的时候是关于键盘的。
I interviewed him last time for a keyboard.
哦，真的吗。
Oh, wow.
明白了。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
他跟我讲，他是搞吉他手的。
And he was telling me how he was he's like, you know, I'm a guitar player.
我当时就说，这太有意思了。
I'm like, that's
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
但他提到，他想做一大堆事情，而你会帮他完成。
But he was saying that he wanted to do a whole bunch of stuff and that you were gonna help him do it.
我当时就说，对啊。
And I'm like, yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
咱们走着瞧吧。
We'll see.
但现在，这事完全黄了。
But now, it's totally turned off.
是的。
Yeah.
他当时在为一位叫克莱尔·马丁的爵士歌手制作专辑。
He was producing an album for a jazz singer called Claire Martin.
我们回到英国后，我参与了其中一些曲目的录制。
And when we got back to England, I played on some of the stuff for him.
所以我们其实从一开始就不清楚，总之我先写了三首歌，然后和他一起录了。
So we we we don't know I mean, was there right from the very beginning of the So first of all, I wrote three songs and then I recorded them with him.
之后又写了三首，再写三首，一直到他全程都参与，人真的特别棒。
And then there was another three and another three and until he was right there right to the end, so he was great.
最后我们确实邀请他加入乐队，但他没答应，他应该是贝斯手吧。
We actually asked him to join the band in the end, but he wouldn't have he wouldn't do it because he's a bass player, I think.
他不答应是因为不喜欢巡演。
But he wouldn't wouldn't do it because he doesn't like touring.
所以他之前已经和你们有过合作了。
So He had that experience with you already.
我知道。
I know.
我当时就想，天啊，真有那么糟吗？
So I was thinking, fucking know, is it that bad?
他说他想多往制作方向发展，还说如果跟你们出去两年，会错过很多机会——毕竟别人看到这张专辑上有他的名字，会找他做活儿。
And so he said, well, he he wanted to get more into the engineering side and he said, well, if I go away for two years with you guys, he said, I'm gonna lose a lot of work that I'm gonna get when people see my name on the back of this record.
我就说，嗯，这也没啥好说的。
And I said, well, that's fair enough, you know.
不过希望他能来英国，参加我们的一些演出，一起玩玩。
But hopefully, he'll come and play with us in England at some of the shows and do some stuff.
在英国吗？
In England or something?
我不确定。
I don't know.
唉，随他吧。
Well, you know, whatever.
主要是想让老朋友们都参与进来，你知道的。
It's like to keep people involved, know.
我喜欢一直和同一批人合作，因为我本来就挺喜欢他们的。
I like to keep the the same people around because I generally like them, you know.
我们肯定还会再和他合作的。
And we're definitely gonna work with him again.
这点毫无疑问。
There's no doubt about that.
他肯定还会再参与录音，人太棒了，不让他参与说不过去，你说是吧？
And he'll definitely play on the records again because he's too good a person just to just to not play, you know what mean?
对。
Yeah.
那你觉得绿洲乐队接下来会怎样？
So where do you see the Oasis thing going?
时间还很长。
Long time.
等下一轮巡演结束，也就是这张专辑的巡演之后，我打算休息一下。目前我已经写好了五首歌，词曲都完成了，就等着录下一张专辑了。
Well, after the next tour, after the tour, which is due for this album, I'm gonna take about I've only written five songs and finished five songs with words and all that for the next record, so that's done.
我在这儿的时候又写了一首，快收尾了，加起来就是六首。
I've nearly finished another one which I've been writing while I've been here, so that'll be six.
我还需要再写六七首，希望能在2001年初就开始筹备，直接用现在这个阵容进录音室。
I need about another six or seven more, and then hopefully I'll have hopefully it'll start right at the beginning of two thousand and one, get us in the studio immediately with this lineup that we've got now.
因为那两个新来的家伙简直是天才乐手，人也特别棒。
Because the two new guys are fucking just brilliant musicians and great guys.
所以我打算马上和他们进录音室，录一张专辑，发出去，下次可能就不巡演了，然后我想做个个人专辑。
So I'm gonna get in the studio immediately with them, do an album, put that out, maybe not tour the album next time, and then I wanna go and do a solo record.
你真觉得下一张专辑不巡演了吗？
You're not gonna tour the next album, you don't think?
这简直就像一部残废的电影。
It's just an disabled movie.
是的。
Yeah.
但说真的，最后我大概还是会被人说动的。
But I mean, I'll probably get talked into it in the end,
不过挺奇怪的，现在你们的巡演连这场都还没开始呢，就已经在想下一场了。
but It's weird because now you're thinking that touring this album hasn't even started.
你居然在考虑已经发生过的事了。
You're thinking about touring what happened.
是的。
Yeah.
一切也就跟着启动了。
And everything gets started.
接下来就是要让这个阵容一起录一张专辑。
But the the next thing is to get this line up on a record playing together.
之后我肯定会想做一张个人专辑。
Then after that, I'll definitely wanna do a solo album.
因为我重新找到了写音乐的乐趣。
I just because I've rediscovered the joy of writing music again.
以前这纯粹是工作，你知道的，就是得赶着写一堆歌，哦，今晚不能出去玩了，还得写歌。
Whereas before it was just like work, you know, and it was like, oh fuck, I've got to write a bunch of songs and like, oh, can't go out party tonight because I'm writing.
现在我又找回了那种感觉。
Now I've rediscovered that.
是什么让你重新找回了这种感觉？
What made you rediscover?
我想戒掉毒品，也不再参加派对了。
I wanna stop doing drugs and I stopped partying and that.
那时候我有更多时间专心做音乐。
It was like, you know, I had more time to devote to it.
现在我真的很享受写歌的过程。
And so now I'm enjoying the writing.
我写歌写得停不下来，攒了一大堆素材呢。
I'm writing songs like fucking mental, so I've got loads of stuff, you know.
我就想继续做唱片。
So I just wanna carry on making records.
当初签唱片合约时拿的钱其实不多，这张专辑之后，我们还剩最后一张专辑要交，之后索尼会给咱们一大笔钱。
And obviously, we didn't didn't sign for that much money when we signed the initial record deal, which after this album, we've only got one more album to deliver for Sony, then we got a really really really big payday.
我特别期待那一天。
So I'm really looking forward to that.
就继续这么走下去吧。
And just, you know, carrying on.
现在做得少多了，但把质量提得更高。
Doing a lot less, but making the quality better.
我觉得一年出一张专辑根本不行，因为你忙着巡演，根本没时间写歌。
Because I think that you can't do an album every year because it gives you no time to write because you've got a tour and all that stuff.
我觉得吧，还是得把节奏放慢一点，多花点心思在作品的质量上，别光追着数量跑。
I think, you know, I think just to slow down the work ethic a bit more and devote more time to the quality of the work as opposed to the quantity of the work.
对。
Mhmm.
就尽量让乐队多撑几年吧。
Just try and, you know, just try and keep the band together for as long as possible.
多盯着点利亚姆。
Keep an eye on Liam.
那你不想让乐队维持得更久一点吗？
So you don't wanna keep the band together more?
当然想。
I do.
是的。
Yeah.
真的吗？
Yeah?
是的。
Yeah.
想。
Do.
是的。
Yeah.
但我还想要出一张个人专辑，对吧？
But I also wanna do a solo record, don't I?
这并不意味着粉丝们就不会再支持乐队了。
That doesn't mean that kids aren't gonna they're not gonna go back with the band.
不会。
No.
不会。
No.
绝对不行。
Fuck no.
不会。
No.
我喜欢待在乐队里。
I like being in the band.
我喜欢和大家在一起。我不觉得自己是个单飞艺人，你懂我的意思吧？
I like being around You know, I don't I don't consider myself to be solo artist, you know what I mean?
我不会把这当成职业来赌，但我确实想在年纪大一点之前试试看，就想知道那是什么感觉。
I wouldn't I wouldn't plop bank on it as a career, but I definitely love to try it before I'm older, just to see what it's like.
我想录一张个人专辑，不搞太多副项目，就做个绿洲乐队的专辑，再出一张个人专辑，这样轮流来。
I'd like to make one solo album, wouldn't, you know, have numerous side projects and do an an Oasis album, a solo album and keep doing it like that.
我真想在还没老到走不动之前，先出一张个人专辑，你懂我的意思吧？
I'd actually one, you know, one solo record before I'm too old to become, you know, an old fart, know what I mean?
做个人项目。
Doing solo stuff.
是啊，你知道的。
Yeah, you know.
等我长了胡子，那可就真有点惨了。
That'd sad when I grow a beard.
但你觉得你所有想做的音乐，都能在绿洲乐队里实现吗？
But do you think you can see all your musical stuff that you wanna do can be realized in Oasis?
很多做不到，因为我喜欢电子乐、舞曲，还有更多原声音乐。
A lot of it can't because I'm into, know, to a lot of electronic and dance music and a lot more acoustic stuff.
所以，没错，很多确实不行，但我其实写三种风格的歌：慢节奏的原声曲、电子乐，还有摇滚。
So, yeah, I mean, a lot of it can't but the stuff, you know, I mean, you know, I write write three different types of music, I write slow acoustic stuff, you know, I can I can do electronic music and I can do rock and roll?
摇滚的部分就留给乐队，其他两种我可以在自己做的专辑里混在一起，搞一张疯狂的、另类的原声电子专辑。
So the rock and roll aspect of it will come from the band and I can combine the other two, maybe make a wacky, far out acoustic fucking electronic On record your own.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
如果这还行得通的话。
If that's at all possible.
那现在还有哪些老牌乐队呢？就是那些没把自己搞成笑话、还一直坚持着的，到底还有多少？
So what bands out there, like long standing bands out there, would you wanna be like career wise where it's like, they haven't made a joke of themselves, how many are still going?
他们还在继续。
They're still going.
我不确定。
I don't know.
其实也没几个吧？
There's not that many really, is there?
对。
No.
R.E.M. 真的没沦为笑柄。
REM are not a joke, really.
有时候我特别喜欢他们，但他们依然备受尊敬。
And at moments, I'm a massive fan, but they're still they're still respected.
是的。
Yeah.
那会很酷。
Would be cool.
对我而言，YouTube 就是标杆，因为我总是先买他们的专辑再听，数以百万计的人都是这样。
YouTube would be the benchmark for me because I think that they You always I always buy their records before I hear them, as do millions and millions of other people.
你始终知道他们的歌质量有保障，但你不知道会是哪种风格——是摇滚、舞曲，还是别的什么。
And you always know the quality of the songs is gonna be good, you don't know what sort of field it's gonna be, whether it's gonna be rock record or a dance record or what have you.
但你清楚，他们的创作水准一定不会低，我觉得 YouTube 就是这样。
But you you know that, you you know that songwriting is gonna go up to a certain quality, I would say YouTube.
就个人来说，尼尔·杨。
On a on a personal level, Neil Young.
你是说单个艺人吗？
Like on a just individual?
是的。
Yeah.
等我长大了，我想成为尼尔·杨。
When I grow up, I wanna be Neil Young.
你呢？
Do you?
是的。
Yeah.
或者保罗·韦勒。
Or Paul Weller.
保罗·韦勒真的很棒。
Paul Weller's really cool.
哦，他不是吗？
Oh, he isn't he?
是的。
Yeah.
但他是我很好的朋友，我觉得他依然很酷。
But he's good friend of mine and I still think he's cool.
不是的。
No.
因为我第一次亲眼见到他时，我就想，哦，
Because like I remember seeing him for the first time in person, I'm like, oh,
他真的很聪明。
he's so smart.
你知道的吧？
You know?
他就是那样的人。
He's just he just is.
我觉得他特别帅，很有魅力。
I'm like, he's just hot and sexy.
他确实很随和。
He's like but he's really nice.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你现在最喜欢谁的音乐？
Who do you think's making music now that you like the most?
其实他最近在做一些特别……
Actually, he's doing something really
有个美国的乐队。
There's a there's a band from America.
我本来都没想过要提这个。
I never thought to say this.
过去十年里我最喜爱的乐队。
My favorite band of the last ten years now.
至少从内华达州那边开始算起。
Well, since Nevada anyway.
他们叫Cotton Mather。
They're called Cotton Mather.
你听说过吗？
You heard of them?
没听过。
No.
Mather。
Mather.
Mather，拼写是m-a-t-h-e-r，前面加个Cotton。
Mather, m a t h e m a t h e r and the word cotton.
他们出过一张专辑叫Kontiki，拼法是k-o-n-t-i-k-i。
They made this album called Kontiki, which is spelled with a k, k o n t I k I.
我在英国的一本杂志上看到一篇乐评，说听起来就像鲍勃·迪伦用四轨录音机把披头士的歌重新演绎了一遍，我当时就想，这听着太带感了。
And I read a review in a in a magazine in England that said, you know, it was like Bob Dylan singing the Beatles into a four track machine and I was like, that fucking sounds alright.
于是我到处找这张专辑，可怎么也找不到。
So I went out, I tried to find it, couldn't find it anywhere.
展开剩余字幕（还有 357 条）
所以我只好通过网络从美国订购了一张。
So I had to get it I had to get it sent from America via the internet, I think.
收到后我从第一首开始听，感觉一般。
And I got it back and I played I started off at, you know, track one, didn't like it.
第二首，也不怎么样。
Track two, didn't like it.
等到第三首的时候，我心里想，又是这种烂玩意儿。
By the time I got to track three, was thinking, oh, this fucking bollocks again.
可到了第五首，从第五首到第十四首，这简直是我在这辈子听过最震撼的音乐了。
By the time I got to track number five, from track five to track 14, it's just the most awe inspiring fucking music I think I've ever heard in my fucking life.
我实在忍不住，开始喝酒了。
And I just I had to start drinking.
一根接一根地抽烟。
I'm smoking loads of cigarettes.
我整个人都在发抖，心里就一个念头：就是它了。
I was just fucking I started getting shivering going, this is it.
这才是真正的震撼。
This is fucking it.
于是我打电话给所有人，把他们都叫到我家来。
So I phoned everybody up and I got everyone around me house.
利亚姆问：他们到底是哪儿的？
And Liam was going, where are they from?
我跟他说：美国就是这样子的。
I was going, America's going like that.
音乐还没开始呢，就已经是垃圾了。
Before the fucking music had even started, fucking rubbish.
听起来像是
That sounds like
他问：像什么？
he's going, what do sound like?
他说是披头士。
He said the Beatles.
他说，没人听起来像他妈的披头士。
He went, nobody sounds like the fucking Beatles.
真的没人。
Nobody.
到专辑快结束时，他居然说，我能借走吗？
By the end of the album, he was just going, can I borrow it?
他懂的。
He knows.
这是我的，你得自己去弄一份。
It's mine, you gotta go and get your own.
但这么做有点过分了。
But it's it's mean
这张唱片是哪个厂牌出的？
What label is it on?
我觉得是Copper，C-O-P-P-E-R。
I think it's on Copper, c o double p e r.
好吧。
Okay.
我去买一张。
I'm gonna go buy this.
其实呢，我刚来的时候做的第一场采访，是在费城，有个家伙也这么说，他说他从来没听过这乐队，还问他们到底混了多久了。
Well, do because I spoke to a man at the the first interview I've done when I got here was in Philadelphia and the guy was saying the same thing and he was going, well, I've never heard of these guys and how long have they been going?
我说，我觉得这是他们的第一张专辑，他接着说，哦，那要是能找到，我肯定买。
I said, well, it's I think it's the first album and he's going So he's he said, well, you know, I'll go and buy it if I can find it.
前几天他突然给我打了电话，说这是他这辈子听过最牛的唱片。
Anyway, I got a phone call off him the other day and he was going, it's the best fucking record he's ever read in his life.
我每次放给谁听，都会特意等前四首放完，因为他们一听就受不了。
And everyone I played it to, I always go I always wait for the first four tracks and they always go, because I hate it.
然后他们就会说：等等，先别播了。
And they just go, fucking wait a minute.
但如果你真想懂这张专辑，正确的听法是：直接从第五首开始，听到最后，再回头从头听那前四首。
And then if you if you start right, the thing is to buy it, start at track five, get to the end, then go back and listen to the first four.
因为如果你一听前四首，就会直接跳过。
Because if you listen to the first four, you just switch it off.
但我现在是从第五首开始听，再回头听前四首，连前四首听起来也顺耳了。
But I listen to it from five onwards and then the first four, and even the first four now sound good.
这感觉就像汤姆·佩蒂遇上披头士，再碰上迪伦，还掺了点海滩男孩的味儿。
It sounds like Tom Petty meets the Beatles meets Dylan meets the Beats Boys.
太棒了。
It's fantastic.
听上去真不错，得去听听查尔斯的版本。
That sounds really good to go through Charles.
确实如此。
But it is.
我发誓，这专辑简直绝了。
Honest to God, it's brilliant.
他们之前跟我提过，说那些海滩男孩的乐迷都怎么说来着。
That's what they were telling me about the Beats fan.
Beat乐队
Beat band
听起来像文斯的作品。
It sound like Vince.
Beat乐队不错，我觉得他们还能做得更好。
The Beat band are good, I think they can be a lot better.
我觉得吧，他们寄来了第一张专辑之类的，可能还在摸索中。
I think, I mean, they sent the first record and all that, and they're probably still finding their
我觉得他们现场演出比录音专辑强多了。
I think they're a lot better live than they are on the record.
对。
Yeah.
他们的音质不错，但画面感不一定强，因为我觉得专辑听起来有点闷。
They get the sound, not the visuals necessarily, because I think the record sounds a little bit muffled.
对。
Yeah.
你明白我的意思吧？
Do you know what I mean?
我觉得他们潜力不小，未来肯定会有好作品。
I think they've got I think there's good things to come from Yeah.
我懂。
I know.
我不会满怀期待地等着看。
It's it's I'm not gonna be like waiting with excitement.
我肯定会听，当然。
I'll always listen Yeah.
但我不会像盼着下周新歌那样激动。
But I'm not gonna be like, oh, I can't wait for next week.
是的。
Yeah.
但从英国那边来看，目前没什么像样的。
But out of England, there's nothing.
可能是特拉维斯。
Travis, maybe.
我喜欢特拉维斯。
I like Travis.
这张专辑？
This album?
对。
Yeah.
我刚拿到，已经正式发布了
I just got it out and it's officially
还没正式发行呢。
It's not been released already yet.
我知道，他们去年没发，就直接发给我了。
I know, they just sent it to me because they haven't released it last year.
是的。
Yeah.
而且节奏特别慢。
It's and it's very slow.
简直就像电台司令《The Bends》那种风格。
It's very it's very almost like like, you know, radio head, the bends type
你知道的。
of thing.
我不太喜欢电台司令。
I don't like radio head, you know.
去年我在雷丁音乐节碰到一个朋友，过去打个招呼，结果他一站就是二十五分钟，一股脑儿全倒给我。
I saw a friend last year at Reading and I just went over to say hello and he just completely just like stood there and talked to me for twenty five minutes and dumped all this stuff.
我就只能干看着他，心想：我只是来打个招呼啊。
I'm just staring at him going, listen, just came to say hello.
他当时整个人都快被生活压垮了。
And he was just so stressed out about his life.
真的吗？
Oh, really?
我从你身上感觉不到这一点。
I don't get that from you.
他啊？现在不是了。
And he's well, not anymore.
好吧。
Alright.
也许吧。
Maybe.
他说他要搬来你这边。
But he's like he's like, I'm I'm moving to where you are.
他说他有你的电话号码。
He's like, I've got your phone number.
他说他要搬去加州。
He's like, I'm moving to California.
就这些了。
That's it.
我当时就说，行吧。
And I was like, alright.
你知道的，别为难他了。
Well, you know, go spare him.
他是个小男孩。
He's a young boy.
是的。
Yeah.
但后来我想，那段话还是被录进去了。
But then I think that's that ended up on the record.
我觉得正因如此，才这么棒。
I think that's why it's so good.
对。
Right.
他是个安克斯特。
He's a he's Ankster.
他啊，其实第一张专辑也很棒。
He's a you know, when I first the first record's good as well.
我第一次见到他，就觉得他有那股劲儿。
When I first seen him, I thought he's got it.
他确实有天赋。
He's definitely got it.
他身上有种特别的东西。
He's got something.
他的歌都很棒，真的挑不出毛病。
And his songs are good, you you can't knock it.
他妈妈挺不错的。
He's got a good mom.
是的。
Yeah.
他嗓音好，各方面都很出色。
He's got a good voice and all that.
你倒是说说看。
Fucking say that.
真希望我也有他那样的嗓音。
I wish I had his voice.
没有。
No.
他巡演的时候把妈妈带在身边。
He brought his mother here on tour.
哦，他们跟你说的？
Oh, they told you?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
去年的事。
Last year.
他一看到我，就立刻说：你得认识一个人。
And he was just as soon he saw me, was like, you have to meet someone.
他走过去，跟我说：这是我妈妈。
He goes over and he's like, this is my mom.
不是的。
No.
你不是在巴士上吧？
And like, you're not on the bus, are you?
她在上面。
She was.
她一直跟着巴士到处跑。
She's been traveling on the bus.
天哪。
Oh, dear.
那算是她的一份圣诞礼物吧。
That was her Christmas present or something.
没必要这样。
There's no need for that.
不用了。
No.
你
You
还好吗？
good?
我不确定。
I don't know.
我也不清楚，他们好像都看到了，所以……
I've not I've they see these So
我今天早上给他那张混音专辑写了篇评论。
I wrote a review of his mixed CD this morning.
好的。
Alright.
我明说了，这简直是垃圾。
And I stated it, this is garbage.
对吧？
Right?
好吧。
Alright.
然后按压南瓜。
And press the pumpkin.
我知道。
I know.
我要给这个邮箱发邮件，跟他们说：听好了，我只是告诉你我做过这事。
I'm gonna email this address and I'm say, listen, I'm just telling you I've done this.
我不希望他拿着刀在巡演现场跟我翻脸。
I don't want him turning off at my tour step with a knife.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我不确定，因为这些跳舞的小伙子们从来不做样带，对吧？
I don't know because these these dance boys don't do demos, do they?
他们主要就在录音室里干活，不过呢，你要问我，我肯定会尽量帮帮他。
So they just sort of work in the studio so But, you know, if you ask me I'll go and help him out as much as I can.
但我感觉接下来一年我大概会挺忙的。
But I get the feeling that I'm gonna be a little bit busy for the next year anyway.
我得到处跑，所以可能帮不上忙，不过我觉得保罗·斯泰西会跟他合作。
I'm gonna be on the road so probably not, but I think Paul Stacy's gonna work with him.
是吗？
Yeah?
对。
Yeah.
因为他们都喜欢爵士乐，而且他现在正迷上爵士呢。
Because they're both into jazz and all that stuff and he's on a big jazz tip at the moment.
没错。
Right.
我真搞不懂他在说什么，不过就这样吧。
Just certainly don't get what he's going on about, but there you go.
再给五分钟。
Five more minutes.
五分。
Five.
再给五分钟。
Five more minutes.
就五分钟整。
Literally five.
因为马库斯在楼下。
Because Marcus is downstairs.
哦，是他啊？
Oh, he?
就再五分钟。
Literally five more minutes,
可以站在门口，人都已经收拾好了吗？
can stand outside door and the people Did pack already?
我已经收拾好了。
I packed already.
不过还没退房。
I've not checked out though.
好的。
Okay.
也许七分钟。
Maybe seven.
我得去见我的经理，他就住那儿，你懂的。
Well, I've gotta go meet my manager because he lives there, see now.
他为什么搬走了？
Why has he moved?
是永久搬走吗？
Permanent?
是的。
Yeah.
他就在前面那条路上有个特别棒的房子。
He's got a great place up the road.
太棒了。
Fantastic.
所以我得在他回英格兰之前先见他一面。
So I've got to see him before I go back to England.
好的。
Alright.
你看，你给汤姆和埃德那张专辑做的混音，你的声音简直太出彩了。
Just And then, see, because like what you did with Tom and Ed on this album of theirs is just that your voice just sounds brilliant on that.
从头到尾都听得出来，声音状态是最好的，直到最后两首歌。
Like the best it sounded until the two songs
是的。
are Yeah.
好的。
Alright.
谢谢。
Thanks.
其实我一开始挺紧张的，怕再重复我和汤姆他们之前做过的东西，但他们说：‘别担心，这肯定会特别棒。’
Actually, generally didn't was a bit I was a bit anxious about going and trying to repeat what me and Tom and I had already done and they was going, no, it's gonna be fucking great.
那首歌的氛围太棒了，我觉得不管怎么说，这可能是我参与过的最出色的作品之一，甚至比在绿洲乐队时的任何东西都强。
And I was like, the setting song is so fantastic, know, and I think I really I really feel anyway that that's probably one of the best things I ever got involved in, even in fucking Oasis, you know.
他们一直说：‘这绝对会惊艳，来吧，干吧！’
And they're going, no, it's gonna be brilliant, come on, let's do it.
于是我写了这首歌，我本人更喜欢纯乐器版，但他们坚决反对：‘开什么玩笑，这可是能当大型迷幻颂歌的！’
So I wrote the song, I particularly preferred it as an instrumental, and they were going, no fucking way, man, this is big, you know, it's like big psychedelic anthem.
你在作曲方面也有参与吗？
Were you involved in the songwriting part of it as the music part as well?
我没参与音乐部分。
I wasn't involved in the music.
只是唱歌。
Just the singing.
你来之前他们就已经准备好了？
They had it ready before you came in?
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，他们当时已经有一个循环背景在放了。
Well, had they had the loop going around it.
我的意思是，他们通常会给你发一个
I mean, they what will they do is they send you
怎么回事？
How's that?
他们会给你发一个持续循环的片段
They send you a continuous loop
明白了。
Right.
然后你再把一部分反馈给他们。
And then you send a bit back to them.
对。
Mhmm.
接着他们再写一段，然后再发回来。
Then they write another bit, then they send it back.
等最终版本出来后，大家就一起去录音棚，稍微调整一下编排。
And then when you got the finished thing, you all go in the studio and then do a little bit of arranging.
然后现在就出来了。
And now it came.
最后结果还不错。
It's it turned out alright in the end.
哦，我是说，前几天我听了《Satin Sun》，真的太棒了，简直
Oh, it was I mean, I but was listening to Satin Sun the other day, man, it's just a fucking
你觉得更好吗？
You think it's better?
我真的超爱《Satin Sun》，这歌太棒了
I fucking love Satin Sun, man, it's
节奏感超强的摇滚
pumped rock.
Piston，我永远爱这首歌
Love forever, Piston.
你知道吗，本来他们想把它做成一首典型的西海岸加州颂歌，我当时也觉得这想法挺靠谱，可那会儿英格兰下着倾盆大雨
Well, you see, thing is, they were going on, it's gonna be this big West Coast California anthem, and I was going, yeah, I can probably see that, but it was pissing down
而且当时
and it
我们骑车的时候正下着雨
was raining in England when we were riding it,
就是那样
it was
我心想，算了，先不管了
just like, no, I'll get it at the moment,
你知道的。
you know.
但我估计我们以后不会再合作了。
But I'm I probably don't think we'll work together again.
我知道，如果我将来做个人专辑，倒希望他们能来参与我的创作，而不是我反过来帮他们。
I know, hopefully, I if I was to maybe do a solo album, would like to get them to be involved working on my stuff as opposed to doing the other way around.
那样会挺棒的。
That that that would be cool.
不过呢，我其实正打算和Corner Shop那两个小伙子一起做一张新的Corner Shop专辑。
But because I would, you know, there's no I think I'm up I've me and the two boys from Corner Shop were gonna work together on a new Corner Shop record.
明白了。
Right.
我本来该参与他们上一张专辑的制作，因为我还有个叫Clinton的副项目。
So, because I was supposed to work on their last album, well well, their last, because I've got another side project called Clinton.
Clinton？那个项目我一点都不喜欢。
Clinton, which I don't like at all.
没有。
No.
本来我该去参与的，他们发了些素材给我，结果Oasis那边又忙起来了，我实在抽不出时间。后来碰见他们，我就跟他们说，实在没法投入足够的时间。
Well, I was supposed to work on that and they sent me some stuff and then the Oasis thing kicked off back and I didn't really get the time and I seen them out and I said, look, I said I I couldn't, you know, do enough time for it.
他们说，没关系的。
And they said, oh, no, it's fine.
他们还说，你愿意参与Corner Shop的新专辑，我超爱Corner Shop的。
They said, but you're up for working on the Corner Shop album and I fucking love Corner Shop.
我说，那我一定参加。
And I said, I'm there.
对吧。
Right.
你懂的。
You know?
所以接下来就是这件事了。
So that's the next thing.
所以现在有很多让人兴奋的事情在发生。
So that I mean, there's lots of exciting things going on at the moment.
是的。
Yeah.
我跟他们聊起这事的时候，我和埃德都提到，能从你的声音里听出那种释放感。
It's when I talked to them about it, we were both saying, like me and Ed were both saying that we can hear the release in your voice.
是的。
Yeah.
他还说，和他们合作的时候，你根本不用一个人扛所有压力。
I And he was saying that he feels like with them that you've you can he says you always you don't have to carry the can.
完全没错。
Oh, totally.
对他们来说，你完全可以放松下来，随它去。
For them, so they so you can just kinda let it go and Yeah.
在野外都能听见。
Hear it in the bush.
是的。
Yeah.
看他们这样工作真的很好，因为你总会想，要是我也能把他们的那种方式用到自己的作品里就好了。
And it's good to watch people like that working because you because you think, well, maybe if I could use a bit of that in my stuff.
我觉得，像《Who Feels Love》和《Gas Panic》这些歌里，确实能听出那种影子。
And I think, you know, I think bits of it like on Who Feels Love and Gas Panic, you know, are definite.
听起来不错。
Sound good.
是的。
Yeah.
主要是声音上的感觉。
The sound more than anything.
《Fucking in the Bushes》就像是化学兄弟搞出了黑色安息日的味道，你懂我的意思吧。
Fucking in the bushes is like the Chemical Brothers makes Black Sabbath, know what I mean.
说实话，要是下一张专辑里有这种曲子，我真希望跟他们说：这是你们的风格，我们录好了，你们去重新混音吧，我们不用原版，就用你们的版本，看看能做出什么新东西。
So it would have been nice mean, I'll tell you what would be fucking really cool is on the next record, if we have tracks like that, be to say to them, look, this is your thing, we've recorded them now, you go and remix them and we won't use the definitive version, we'll use your version to see what they come up with.
这主意真不错，老兄。
That would be cool, man.
那场屠杀的事后来怎么样了？
So what's happening with the slaughter slaughter then?
他们直接回绝了？
They just said no?
有趣的是，他们说觉得——不过我不确定这到底是不是真的，也不清楚是他们经纪人说的还是他们自己想的。
Well, the funny thing is is that, you know, they said that they felt Now I don't know how true this is, I don't know whether this is their manager talking or what.
所以你
So you
你没直接跟他们谈过这事？
didn't speak to them to talk on it directly?
没有，我请他们做，他们原则上答应了，结果后来收到消息说，觉得这首歌有‘坏运气’，我一听就火了，心想：这到底是什么意思？
No, I asked them to do it and they agreed in principle and then I got a message back saying that they felt the song had bad karma, which I got pretty upset about because I was just thinking, what the fuck is all that about?
你跟他们提这首歌的时候，有说是《Hot and Skelter》吗？
Well, did you tell them it was Hot and Skelter when you talked to them about the music?
当然说了，没错。
Yeah, of course I did, yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
后来他们又回来找我，见我有点不高兴，就说：‘行吧，我们做就是了。’
And they and then they and then they came back and they found out I got a little bit upset and they said, alright, we'll do it then.
可我说：算了，不干拉倒。
And I said, no, fuck it.
你们不想做，就别勉强。
If you don't wanna do it, don't fucking do it.
不过后来我在街上碰见他们，一路聊下来，我就说：别放在心上。
But you know, I've since seen them in the street and that run all day and I said, look, it's don't worry about it.
所以我们现在还是合作。
So we work together
是啊。
so Yes.
他们老是为这种事操心，一有动静就问我，你觉得他是不是讨厌我们？
They worry about this stuff, you know, because then they'll call me and they're like, do you think he hates us?
没有。
No.
我
I
他们总问我，你觉得他怎么想？
don't They're always asking me like, what do you think he thinks?
我就说，我哪知道。
And I'm like, I don't know
你跟他说，我没那意思。
him, tell him I'm not.
当时是有点生气，但你也知道，早就过去了。
Was a little bit upset, but you know You're over it.
是啊，我现在早就放下了。
Yeah, I'm over it now.
挺好的，没什么大不了的。
Mean, it's cool.
然后我就会提一嘴。
Then then I'll fucking mention it.
我的意思是，我本来不会说的。
I mean, I would I wouldn't
你不懂。
You don't understand.
就算一年后我告诉他们，他们俩都会特别开心，
Even a year from now, if I tell them that, they'll both get really happy and
没错。
Right.
心情也会变好，因为
Have like a better day because
这个原因。
of it.
对。
Right.
不，他们人挺好的。
No, they're they're cool.
他们俩都很在乎你，尤其是我，简直把你当宝贝，但说实话，他们都很看重你的想法。
Well, both care about you a lot, but I mean, particularly, I'm obsessed with you, but I mean, they both really care about what you think.
是的。
Yeah.
我最早给她们听了《Go Let It Out》，那时候还只是个特别粗糙的初版，就那个《Yeah》。
Well, I've played, know, they were the first people I played Go Let It Out to, it was just a really rough demo of Yeah.
她们听了就说，靠，这玩意儿有点不一样。
They were going, fucking, that's a bit different.
我当时问她们：你觉得怎么样？
I was going, do like it?
她们说：当然喜欢，太爱了。
And they were going, yeah, I love it.
我当时就想，太牛了。
And I was going, fucking brilliant.
对，我目前正在做点什么。
Right, I'm doing something right now.
因为如果他们喜欢，就说明我做的东西够现代。
Because if they like it, that means I'm doing something contemporary.
而如果我喜欢的东西，说明它足够传统，合我口味。
And if something that I like, it means it's traditional enough for me to like.
如果他们喜欢，那就说明它足够新颖，合他们胃口。
And if they like it, it's modern enough for them to like it.
我当时就想，太牛了。
I was going, fucking brilliant.
现在我可以真正全力以赴地去打磨它了。
Now I can go and fucking really go to work on it.
说到底，他们其实该好好感谢自己。
So they've got they've got a lot to thank themselves for, really.
九四年末到九五年初，只要我一靠近汤姆，就能听见他回头哼歌。
In like, end of ninety four and the beginning of ninety five, anytime I would be standing anywhere near Tom, you could hear him like humming over his shoulder.
不管是白天还是晚上，总能听到他哼，我另一个朋友也是这样。
Anytime of day or night, there'd be just and then I have another friend here who would be doing the same thing.
我当时就想，汤姆是怎么做到的？
I'm like, do know how Tom does that?
我心想，上YouTube找找看。
I'm like, YouTube.
因为那些旋律一旦进了脑子，就挥之不去，以前可没这样。
Because then they would get stuck in my head because they weren't before.
没错。
Right.
这简直太棒了。
Like, that's wicked.
这简直就是他们生活的背景音乐。
That's a little soundtrack to their lives.
那这些新来的家伙怎么样？
But so what about these new guys then?
他们很棒。
They're great.
没了你原来的那帮人，你感觉如何？
How do you feel about not having your guys then?
你挺想他们的。
You missed them.
没有。
No.
我刚开始有点不爽，但后来一想，管他呢。
I got upset for about a date and then I thought, well, fuck it.
你还是不明白他们为什么走，对吧？
You don't understand why they left though, don't you?
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，他们根本没跟我本人提过这事，这让我挺不爽的。
Mean, I you know, They didn't they didn't speak to me personally about it, which I was upset about.
但我想了想，这也不是什么大问题，就是个能解决的状况，我们找两个更棒的人来就行了。
But, you know, I thought, well, this is not a crisis, this is this is a problem that's gonna be solved and we'll solve it by getting two better people in.
现在排练的时候，气氛特别拘谨，客客气气的。
Now, when we were doing rehearsals, it's all a bit formal and polite.
就是你得弹这一段、那一段，然后他们说：‘哦，我本来想让你玩得开心点，但我这样弹对不对？’
It's like, oh, well, you play this bit and this part and they go, oh, I wouldn't I swore for you to enjoy it, but am I playing correctly?
全是这种感觉。
It's all like that.
但后来我们一块儿出门，坐大巴什么的，慢慢就不一样了。
But then now we've been away together and been, you know, on the bus and stuff like that.
新团队嘛，总得想想，等哪天大家喝醉了，会是什么样？
You know, it's bit like that with new people, like, what's it gonna be like when we all get drunk together?
会不会又像以前那样，满嘴阴阳怪气的挖苦话乱飞？
Is there gonna be the old backhanded fucking insult flying around and that?
你第一次开玩笑逗他们的时候，他们会怎么反应？
How are they gonna react when you start taking the piss out of them for the first time?
我得说，这简直太让人开心了。
And I have to say, it's been an absolute fucking joy.
他们特别棒，音乐水平一流，而且听的歌、喜欢的东西都差不多，幽默感也特别合拍。
They're wicked and they're brilliant musicians and, you know, they're just they're written to the same records and stuff and we've the same sense of humor.
换个像样的发型，真的能拉近关系，我们能聊发型，说‘这风格还行，哥们儿’。
Having a decent haircut goes a long way to fucking sit, know, to bond in and all that, you we could talk about aircuts and go, that's kinda right, man.
所以呢，但是——
So but that
幽默感这点没问题。
Fine with the sense of humor.
是啊，他们真的太厉害了，说实话，B和R巡演结束时，我本来打算退出乐队。
Yeah, but they're fucking brilliant and I, you know, it's like, at the end of the B and R tour I was gonna leave the band.
我受够了，和我一起在乐队的人我根本不喜欢，觉得毫无进展，完全没意思，我觉得自己还不如单飞。
And I've had enough, I didn't like the people I was in the band with, I felt we weren't going anywhere, it was useless, I felt my time would better be served as a solo artist.
所以我去了，后来重新找回了创作的激情，那感觉真是太棒了。
So I went, you know, I gave drugs, I rediscovered the writing bug and it was brilliant.
然后那两个人走了，我当时就想，唉，真是挺让人失望的。
And then the two guys left and I was like, well, you know, fucking, it's a bummer.
但说实话，这事儿也挺让人意外的。
But fucking hell, you know.
现在这两个人回来了，感觉就像组了个新乐队，特别棒。
Now these two guys are in, it's like they're in a new band, it's great.
等我们真一起录一张全员参与的专辑时，那种感觉才会真正到来，那一定会特别精彩。
And we're it'll only finally feel like that when we make a a record that we've all played on and then it'll be fucking brilliant.
你当时都打算走了，是什么让你没立刻走掉？
What made you not leave immediately when you were thinking about them?
那会儿我们正好休整一年。
We were having a year off.
我想我们确实有时间好好放松一下。
I guess we had time to chill out.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我有时间放松，然后……
So I had time to relax and then
你知道吗，罗尼·赛德斯曾经问我，你们当年为什么突然退出那次美国巡演，就是那个……
Do you know, Ronnie Sides asked me once why you guys just left this American tour, you know, when you did that Yeah.
好多年前的事了。
Years ago.
我当时跟你说过，他们为什么离开根本不重要。
And I was telling you in my life, it doesn't matter why they left.
你得想想我当时的感觉，做出这么大的决定时，你可能一年后才回过味来，心想：我本该坚持下去的，但真的做不到。
You have to remember how I'm feeling to do something big like Like, you think about it a year later and you're like, I could have stuck it out, but can't.
对。
Yeah.
因为当时那一刻的决定，感觉就是对的，你知道的。
Because you make the right decision at the spur of the moment feels right, you know.
我觉得吧，对他来说这事儿太重要了，对我来说也是。
I'm like, you have because, you know, to him it's like, to me that is such a big deal.
对啊。
It's like Yeah.
你可是撂挑子离开了美国。
You fucked off America.
但他可没这么干。
Like, he didn't fuck off America.
我是说，要是他继续待下去，迟早得崩溃。
I'm like, you know, he would've imploded in that state.
至少他们现在还都在。
I mean, at least they're still around.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Well, exactly.
这就是关键所在。
That's the thing.
如果我们当时退出了美国巡演，乐队就此解散，那才是错的。
If if we would have walked off that America tour and band would have broke up, that would have been wrong.
明白了吧。
See.
但事实上，从那以后我们又出了两张专辑。
But the thing is, we've made another record, two records since then.
这张专辑比上一张要好得多。
This one is, you know, is a far superior album to the last one.
我们会回来，而且还会继续回来。
We're coming back and we'll keep coming back.
这么说吧，对那些买票的粉丝来说，这一切都是值得的，但你也知道，事情就是这样。
So it was justified in in eyes, you know, born for the people who bought tickets, but you know, there you go.
你知道人们管他们叫什么吗？‘尖叫恐慌’？
You know what people call them screaming panic?
还没定下来。
Not in the bag.
跟他们都没什么关系。
Not married to any of them.
这跟我一点关系都没有。
Has nothing to do with me.
最后一个问题，有没有什么没人问过你，但你其实想聊一聊的事？
The last thing, is there anything you wanna talk about that nobody asks you?
没有。
No.
挺好。
Cool.
我先走了。
I'm gonna go.
谢谢你，诺尔。
Thank you, Noel.
整个采访就这么原封不动，一点都没剪。
That's the whole interview, zero edits.
这篇采访的印刷版已经发布在《Pictures of Lily》通讯的付费会员专区了。
There are some print versions of this interview which have already been posted to the paid tier of the Pictures of Lily newsletter.
和往常一样，Noel 总能让人轻松地把一次采访变成大量内容。
As always, Noel makes it easy to turn one interview into a lot of copy.
《Pictures of Lily》通讯每几周发一次，免费订阅就可以收到。
The Pictures of Lily newsletter goes out every couple of weeks and you can subscribe to it for free.
对于付费订户，我会定期发布独家印刷版访谈，内容来自我三十三年积累的档案，包括九十年代与The Cure、Oasis、The Verve、Blur、Pulp、Supergrass、Portishead、Garbage、Electronic、Suede、Daft Punk、Massive Attack、Era、Black Grape、Tricky、Uncle与DJ Shadow、Underworld等乐队的经典对谈，后续还会继续更新。
For my paid subscribers, I'm posting bonus newsletters that include print only interviews from my thirty three year archive, including classic ones from the nineties with The Cure, Oasis, The Verve, Blur, Pulp, Supergrass, Portosette, Geraisure, Electronic, Suede, Daft Punk, Massive Attack, Era, Black Grape, Tricky, Uncle with DJ Shadow, Underworld, and more to come.
针对创始会员，我们还额外提供了与Noel Gallagher、Richard Ashcroft、Damon Albarn、Jarvis Cocker、The Chemical Brothers、Massive Attack、Erasure、Primal Scream、Moir Daft Punk、Moir Uncle和Talvin Singh、Beth Orton、Fat Boy Slim的独家访谈。
For founding members, there are additional interviews with Noel Gallagher, Richard Ashcroft, Damon Albarn, Jarvis Caulker, The Chemical Brothers, Massive Attack, Erasure, Primal Scream, Moir Daft Punk, Moir Uncle, and Talvin Singh, Beth Horton, and Fat Boy Slim.
如果你们想免费订阅《Pictures of Lily》通讯，我会在本播客里附上链接。
I will link the Pictures of Lily newsletter in this podcast if you'd like to subscribe to it for free.
所有《Pictures of Lily》通讯的付费订阅收入，都会直接用于支持这个始终免费的播客的制作。
Any paid subscriptions to the Pictures of Lily newsletter go straight to the supporting of the production of this always free podcast.
我是主持人，还有我的联合制作人兼编辑劳伦·施罗德，感谢你的收听。
From myself and my co producer and editor, Lauren Schroeder, thanks for listening.
如果你有空的话，欢迎在任意播客平台订阅或关注本节目，也别忘了点赞和评论。
And if you have a chance to subscribe or follow the podcast on any of the podcast platforms, please do so, and please rate and review.
你可以访问 picturesoflily.com 和我们取得联系，那里你可以选择你偏好的播客平台、Instagram、Facebook、YouTube、Pandora 或 Amazon。
You can connect to us on picturesoflily.com, and from there, you can choose your preferred podcast platform or Instagram or Facebook or YouTube or Pandora or Amazon.
你也可以在 Spotify 和 YouTube 上找到本节目的歌单。
You can also find the playlist for the podcast episodes on Spotify and YouTube.
感谢收听。
Thanks for listening.
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