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我要先道个歉。
I'm gonna start by making an apology.
网球明星诺瓦克·德约科维奇连夜参加了听证会，以决定他是否能留下参加澳网公开赛。
Tennis star Novak Djokovic, he had a hearing overnight to decide whether he will stay and play the Australian Open.
这位世界第一已被驱逐出澳大利亚。
The world number one has been booted out of Australia.
驱逐意味着他澳网征程的终结。
Deportation marks the end of his Australian Open homes.
如果我想去美国，就必须接受检测并出示疫苗接种证明。
If I wanna go to America, I have to take a test and show my vaccination status.
就这样。
That's it.
所以我们不该被允许参赛。
So we shouldn't be allowed to play.
对吧？
Right?
它能防止你死亡。
Stops you from dying.
我是说，这就是疫苗存在的意义。
I mean, that's the whole point of the vaccine.
他作为公众人物本可以劝阻很多人——那些或许本该死去的人。
He's also a role model who would have definitely deterred a lot of people who perhaps should have been dead.
你的这番话，充分暴露了你的为人。
What you said, it speaks volumes about the person that you are.
我只是说我不是那样的人。
I'm just saying I'm not like that.
你心里是否也在想，我现在可能无法在这个水平上与这些家伙竞争了？
Is part of you also thinking, I'm not sure I can compete against these guys at this level now?
你说得对，我确实对自己能否赢得大满贯，尤其是对阵这两位选手，有了更多怀疑。
To your point, yes, I do have more doubts that I can win slams, particularly against these two guys.
我只是盯着墙壁看了二三十分钟，那是我第一次感到真正的空虚。
I just stared at the wall for twenty or thirty minutes, and I that's the first time I felt really empty.
我只是想重新找回对这项运动的热爱和激情，因为我已经失去了它。
I just want to regain the love and, you know, passion for the sport because I lost it.
所以如果你
So if you
有一天在网球场上和你儿子比赛
one day played your son at tennis in a
哦，我是说，那是个梦想。
Oh, I mean, that's a that's a dream.
在一场职业比赛中。
In a professional game.
你不会让他赢的，对吧？
You wouldn't let him win, would you?
我会狠狠教训他。
I would kick his.
关于奥辛，毒品事件是否给他蒙上了阴影？
On Onsine, do you is there a cloud over him about the drugs thing?
那片云会追随他，就像COVID的阴云会追随我。
That that cloud will follow him as the cloud of COVID will follow me.
你应该去问他。
You should ask him.
我只采访过山羊。
I only interviewed goats.
我预想的情况更糟。
I expected worse.
这不是针对你，而你似乎正聪明地隐藏着这点。
This is not against you, and this you're kind of, like, intelligently hiding.
诺瓦克，我们终于见面了。
Novak, we meet at last.
终于。
At last.
我从未见过你。
I've never met you.
我经常谈论你，首先要为此道歉。
I've talked about you quite a lot, and I'm gonna start by making an apology, and it's for this.
我曾对你在COVID丑闻中的牵连非常苛责。
I was very censorious about you over the COVID scandal that you got caught up in.
简而言之，你被驱逐出澳大利亚，表面上看是因为媒体被告知和报道的——你试图绕过规则参加澳网，却没有接种COVID疫苗。
And in a nutshell, you got thrown out of Australia over what seemed to be on the face of it from what the media were being told and what was being reported, was you trying to bend the rules of getting into playing Australian Open, without having taken the COVID vaccine.
当时我对很多人确实很苛刻，后来已向部分人道歉，因为后来清楚即使接种疫苗，对病毒传播也没有影响。
And I was actually quite censorious about a lot of people at the time, and I've since apologized to some people for being too tough on them because once it became clear that if you had the vaccine, it made no difference to whether you could then transmit the virus.
显然，对我来说，那成了一个个人选择问题。
Clearly, at that point for me, it becomes a personal choice.
如果潜在危险与你是否接种疫苗相比已无关紧要。
If potential danger is irrelevant compared to whether you have the jab or not.
基于此我说过，听着，我认为疫苗很重要。
I have on that basis said, look, I believe the vaccines were important.
我认为它们挽救了许多生命。
I think they saved a lot of lives.
当时我身边有许多人正在经历新冠带来的至暗时刻。
I had lots of people in my life at the time who were going through a terrible time with Covid.
与我共事的一位晨间节目同事，她的丈夫因新冠陷入昏迷，不幸离世。
One of my co workers on the morning show I was doing, her husband was in a coma from Covid, he sadly died.
我的一位朋友通过FaceTime与她住在养老院的母亲诀别，老人最终因新冠去世。
A friend of mine said goodbye to her mother on FaceTime, who was in a care home and died from COVID and so on.
我认识很多人，所以感觉这事非常切身。
I knew lots of people, so it felt quite personal.
这让我感到切肤之痛，但我当时过于苛责了。
It felt quite visceral to me, but I was too censorious.
当更多关于你处境的信息浮现——你在赴澳前数周就已感染新冠的事实、你在表格填写上并无过错的事实、最终演变成基于民愤的政治驱逐决定的事实。
When more information emerged about your situation, the fact you'd had COVID several weeks before you went to Australia, the fact that you hadn't actually done anything wrong on the form filling, the fact that in the end it became a political decision to throw you out based on likely public anger if they didn't take action.
当我回顾反思这件事时，我想为当时对你使用过激言辞道歉，因为那时我并不了解你。
When I look back on that and reflect on that, I would like to say I'm sorry for the intemperate language I used against you, because I didn't know you.
我当时轻信了所见所闻的表面信息。
I took what I was reading and hearing at face value.
结果比预想的更复杂，而且我为过度使用修辞手法道歉。
It turned out to be more complicated, And yeah, I'm sorry for overregging the rhetorical souffle.
非常感谢。
Appreciate that very much.
让我把话说出来
Let me get that off
舌头。
tongue.
说实话，非常感谢你。
Honesty, thank you so much.
那是艰难时期，全球都处于紧急状态。
It was difficult times and, know, state of emergency globally.
我理解，我们全球都经历了地狱般的考验，这个星球上的所有人。
I understand, you know, we've been through hell globally, all of us on this planet.
我只想补充一点，不想深入探讨新冠疫情和疫苗接种的整个情况，就是我从来不是反疫苗或支持疫苗的倡导者。
And the only thing I would add, not to really dig deeper into this whole situation on the COVID and vaccination, is that I was never a proponent of anti vaxx or pro vaxx.
我一直主张选择自由。
I was always freedom of choice.
所以这一点被误解了。
So, and that was misinterpreted.
我被宣称是这一派或那一派等等。
You know, I was proclaimed to be one side or the other side or so forth.
非黑即白。
It's either black or white.
我说过，你知道的，事情不必非得那样。
And I said, you know, it doesn't need to be that way.
作为一名运动员，作为一个注重身体完整性的人，通过研究我明白自己不会对任何人构成威胁，也无需亲力亲为。
As an athlete, as someone that, you know, takes care of the integrity of the body and understanding of obviously doing my research and understanding that I'm not a threat to anybody and I don't need to do it myself.
我在大约一年到一年半的时间里感染过两三次新冠。
I've been through two times, two or three times I had COVID in like a year, year and a half.
所以我体内有各种抗体等等。
So I had all the antibodies, etc.
长话短说，很高兴在这里见到你，终于见面了。你所说的话充分体现了你的为人，我对此表示欣赏和尊重。
So anyway, long story short, good to see you here, good to finally meet you, and I appreciate and I respect the fact that, you know, what you said, speaks volumes about the person that you are.
所以我非常尊重这一点，其实在你批评我之前，我就一直期待与你交流。
So I really respect that and I was looking forward to speak to you even before you were slamming me for some time.
我做不到。
I can't do that.
我会说出我对你的评价。
I'll what I've said about you.
我对你也一直很友善。
I I have been very nice about you as well.
没错。
Right.
确实。
You have.
确实。
Have.
在那个特定问题上，我确实做得过火了。
On that particular issue, I I went too far.
我想从好的方面说，既然我们坐在这里，我已经公开表达得非常清楚了。
I I would say on the nice side that as we sit here, I've made it very clear publicly.
对我来说，今天早上我和克里斯蒂亚诺·罗纳尔多共度时光——我知道你也认识他——我们稍后会谈到他，因为你们有些共同点。但在我看来，他是有史以来最伟大的足球运动员。
To me, you I've spent this morning with Cristiano Ronaldo, who I know you know, and we'll come to him a little later because there are a few things you have in common, but, you know, he's he's to me the greatest football player that's ever lived.
而在我看来，你现在无疑是有史以来最伟大的网球运动员。
You to me are now indisputably the greatest tennis player that's ever lived.
我这么说过，现在也当着你的面再说一次。
And I've said that, and I'll say it to your face.
希望我们能从这次略显负面的开场中走出来，因为我觉得必须说出来——保持理性诚实很重要。当关于疫苗能否阻止传染的有效性说法改变时，我意识到自己之前太过苛刻了。
I hope we can move on from the slightly negative way this had to start, because I felt compelled to say that, because I think it's important to be intellectually honest, and when the narrative around the efficacy of whether the vaccine could stop you infecting people changed, I realized I'd been just too censorious.
不过说点积极的，坐在这里的你，是否觉得自己就是史上最伟大的网球选手？
But on the positive note, as you sit here, do you feel yourself that you're the best tennis player that's ever played?
这个问题我被问过很多次，特别是最近几年——显然人们总爱用各种数据比较，主要是我和纳达尔之间的各项纪录。
I've asked this question quite a bit, particularly lately in the last several years because of obviously, there's a lot of stats that, you know, people play with, and they do comparisons between Nadal Feather and myself, primarily because of our numbers.
比如大满贯冠军数、巡回赛冠军数、世界第一周数等等。
Grand Slams won, tournaments won, weeks ended number one in the world, etc.
但在关于史上最佳的总体讨论中，我的回答始终一致。
But my answer is quite consistent when it comes to overall general discussion on the greatest of all time.
我要再次重申：我不会自封是否最伟大，因为这不是我该评判的。
And I'm going to say it again, which is, I'm not going to say whether I'm the greatest or not because it's not my position to say that.
而且我认为，这样说是对为我们铺路的前辈们——包括纳达尔和其他所有人——极大的不尊重。
And I would say that that would be very disrespectful towards the generations that have paved the way for me, Nadal Feather and all the others.
不同时代的球员真的很难比较。
It's so hard to compare eras.
要知道，我们的运动在过去五十年里经历了巨大的变革。
Know, our sport has gone through quite a transformation in the last fifty years.
我们只看到了球拍的变化，对吧？
We just see the rackets, right?
我是说，无论是技术、装备、用球、场地类型、体能训练，还是球员背后整个团队的人员配置。
I mean, terms of technology, in terms of equipment, in terms of the balls, the surfaces, in terms of fitness, in terms of the staff of the team of people that is around the player.
一切都变得专业多了。
It has become so much more professional.
这不仅是因为三四十年前的情况不同，更是时代在变化——运动科学在进步，人们能获取更多数据和信息，因此大家都更谨慎...或者说更热衷于理解生活的每个细节，研究如何获得优势或微小提升，从而优化表现和恢复能力等等。
Not just not because of the fact that it wasn't thirty, forty, fifty years ago, but it just the times are changing and the science, the sports science is improving, so people have more access to data, to information, and hence why everyone gets more cautious and more, I would say, interested in understanding of what it takes in every single aspect of your life, how you can get an edge or a slight percentage of improvement, so you can better your performance, your recovery, etc.
所以像博格、罗德·拉沃尔、约翰·麦肯罗这些人，他们创造了今天我们享受的网球历史。
So, the likes of Borg, Rod Laver, John McEnroe, those people that have created a history of the tennis that we enjoy today.
人们争论你是史上最佳时的论据是：综合所有场地类型对比历史记录，你不仅大满贯数量最多，而且在各类场地都保持稳定胜率。
What people say when they argue that you're the best is that if you take all surfaces and you compare your record to anybody in history, yes, you won the most grandstands, but actually, you won on everything consistently.
这正是你的非凡之处。
That is what makes you unusual.
其他多数球员可能在某些场地更强——显然某种程度上你也如此——但你是唯一在所有场地都持续获胜的。
Most of the others, you could say on certain services they're stronger, on others they're not as strong, and obviously the same applies to you to a degree, but you've won consistently on all surfaces.
我认为现代网球的要求促使我做到这点。
Well, think the modern tennis required me to do so.
回溯到80年代，四大满贯中有三个是在草地举行的。
And going back to '80s, you had three out of four grand slams played on grass.
而现在，草地成为最少被使用的场地类型。
And now the grass is the least played surfaced on.
我的意思是，它一年中只有一个月被使用，而过去曾是巡回赛的主要场地。
And, I mean, it's one month a year, and it used to be predominant surfaced on the tour.
因此，这项运动已经发生了巨大变化。
So, the game has evolved a lot.
过去90%的球员直到90年代，甚至90年代末或2000年代初，都采用发球上网打法。
You used to have 90% of the players only up to maybe 90s or maybe even late 90s, early 2000s that would play serve and volley.
他们从木质球拍转向石墨球拍，然后显然又转向更轻便精良的材料。
And they would switch from wooden rackets to graphite rackets and then obviously move into more lighter and refined materials.
使用这类材料时，你能够从底线打出更具控制力、更准确、更精确的球。
And which, with this kind of materials, you would be able to, you know, play from the baseline with more control, with more accuracy, with more precision.
木质或石墨等更坚固的材料则不然，它们能让你发出高速球，但很少有球员能打出强烈旋转。
That wasn't the case with more robust materials like wood or graphite because, you know, it allowed you to serve well with good speed, but then, you know, you didn't have many players playing with a lot of spin.
比约·博格是首位坚持底线打法的球员，他很少上网，大部分时间都守在底线。
Bjorn Borg was the first one that stayed back, and he hasn't would come in, but he would stay back quite a lot.
这种打法让许多对手感到困惑，从而成就了他辉煌的职业生涯。
And so that would confuse a lot of the players, and hence his incredible career and achievements.
我认为，如果博格继续打下去，今天我们可能会讨论他是否是最伟大的球员。
And I think, you know, we would probably be sitting down today and talking about Borg being the greatest if he kept going.
他在26岁就退役了。
He retired when he was 26.
是啊，年轻得不可思议。
Yeah, incredibly young.
在那之前赢得了11个大满贯。
Won 11 Grand Slams until that point.
我是说，阿尔卡拉斯某种程度上正朝着这个方向努力。
I mean, Al Qaras is kind of on the way to do something like that.
所以，再次强调，我并不觉得自在。
So, again, don't feel really comfortable.
我很感激你向我提出这一点，但我从未觉得自在地谈论自己是最伟大的。
I appreciate the fact that you're bringing this forward to me, but I never felt really comfortable to talk about myself as being the greatest.
因为我视自己为这项运动的优秀学生，我尊重这项运动的历史，尊重所有伟大的球员。
Cause I consider myself as a great student of the game, and I respect the history of the game, I respect all of the greats.
其中一些伟人曾是我的教练，比如鲍里斯·贝克尔，我把他视为家人。
So I just, and then some of those greats were my coaches, like Boris Becker, for example, that I consider as part of my family.
所以我更愿意把这个讨论留给别人，当然，能参与这个讨论是莫大的荣誉和特权。
So I just feel more comfortable leaving that discussion to others, and of course, a great honor and privilege to be part of that discussion.
但归根结底，诺瓦克，你已经赢得了24个大满贯，这比历史上任何球员都多。
But the bottom line, Novak, is you've won 24 Grand Slams, and that is more than any player in history.
数据不会说谎
The stats don't That
确实如此。
is true.
这展现了非凡的持久力，尤其是费德勒和纳达尔也曾紧咬这个数字。
That shows a remarkable longevity, and especially with Federer and Nadal snapping around that number.
但最终，你胜出了，你们都拥有漫长的职业生涯。
But ultimately, you prevailed, you all had long careers.
这就是为什么对我来说，归根结底，你是最棒的。
That's why for me, in the end, you're the top dog.
你可能觉得不太自在，但
You may not feel comfortable, but
很感激知道你是网球和体育的粉丝，所以我非常感谢。
appreciate know you were a fan of tennis and sports, so I appreciate it.
在牺牲方面需要付出什么？
What does it take in terms of sacrifice?
我最近读到你在谈论你有两个孩子，他们渐渐长大，我有四个孩子，我知道当他们成长到某个阶段，开始参与体育运动时，你想陪伴他们，见证他们的人生旅程，这时就会出现那种感觉，克里斯蒂安娜也提到过，当你开始产生想要在场的渴望时——过去你一心只想着球场和胜利——现在却开始与家庭责任产生轻微冲突，你想陪伴家人。
I read somewhere recently you were talking about you've got two kids, they're getting older, I've got four kids, I know what that's like when they get to a certain level, and they start playing sport, and you want to be there, you want to watch them have their journey on life, and there starts to be that thing, and Christiana was talking about it, a slight sort of feeling when you start to have your desire to be somewhere used to be single mindedly on the court and winning, and then it starts to be slightly conflicted with your family and wanting to be there for them.
你提到这是第一次产生这种想法。
And you were talking about that entering your head for the first time.
请谈谈这个感受。
Talk about that for a moment.
这很有趣。
It's interesting.
我最近几天也和家人讨论过这个话题。
I had that discussion with some of my family members in the recent days as well.
因为我自己也正在经历某种转型期，你知道，我试图以平静的心态进入职业生涯的最后一章——无论这章会持续多久——既要保持球场上的饥饿感和竞争力，又要面对一些目前难以接受的现实，毕竟我职业生涯二十多年来大多处于统治地位，而现在却被卢卡拉斯和辛纳这样的年轻选手压制
Because I'm going through some form of a transition myself, you know, and trying to enter this last chapter of however long it's going to last for me and my career with the peace of mind where I'll be able to still maintain that hunger and the competitiveness on the court, but yet, you know, deal with some realities that at this moment are, you know, not easy for me to accept, you know, being the dominant player for most of my career for over twenty years and now being dominated by particularly Laukaras and Sinner in the last
那是什么感觉？
What is that like?
我是说，两个年轻后辈突然崛起。
I mean, for two young whippersnappers to come out.
看。
Look.
我是说，我早就知道这一天终会到来，新一代球员会崛起并开始主宰赛场，有人会形成新的竞争关系，挑战那些统治这项运动二十多年的三巨头或四巨头。
I mean, I knew it was going to happen eventually that, you know, the guys will come and they'll they'll start to dominate and someone will form a new rivalry that is coming after the big three or the big four that have dominated the sport for over twenty years.
我认为这是体育运动中自然而然的进步与演变。
And I think it's a natural progress and evolution sport in general.
所以辛纳和阿尔卡拉斯，我觉得他们对这项运动大有裨益。
So Sinner and Alcaraz, I think they're great for our sport.
他们的竞争、他们的比赛，特别是今年法网决赛那场史诗级对决，光是观看就令人叹为观止。
I mean, their rivalry, their matches, and they played one of the most epic matches of all time in the finals of Roland Garros this year, which was incredible just to watch.
其实我在温网期间就一直在回想那场比赛。
And I was reflecting on that actually when I was at Wimbledon.
有人问我是否看了决赛，我说不想看，因为我在法网半决赛输给了辛纳。
They asked me whether I watched it and I said that I didn't want to watch it because I lost semi finals against Sinner and Roland Garros.
赛后我直接回家了，每次比赛结束后我只想彻底放松。
And I went back home and when I'm done with the tournament I just want to switch off.
至少几天内我都不想看到任何网球比赛。
I don't want to see any tennis at least for a few days.
除非我儿子想打球——那当然另当别论。
I want to be, unless my son wants to play, and then that's different, obviously.
尤其是我儿子和妻子，某种程度上也包括我女儿，他们都是狂热的网球迷。
But my son and my wife particularly, also my daughter to some extent, but particularly my son and my wife, they're big tennis fans.
所以他们很爱看网球比赛。
So they love to watch tennis.
他们喜欢观看大型锦标赛和大满贯的决赛。
They love to watch the finals of big tournaments, grand slams.
所以我试图把他们从家里拽出来，结果成功了。
So I was somehow trying to drag them out of their house and I did that.
我说，我们去吃午饭，散散步吧。
And I said, Let's go have lunch, have a walk.
他们不想跟我对着干，但表示真的很想看这场比赛。
And they didn't want to confront me, but they were like, We really want to watch this match.
我说，好吧，你知道吗？
And I said, Okay, you know what?
你们可以看一局。
You can watch a set.
我想着我们先出去，等回来时比赛应该就结束了。
You know, let's just go and then and I thought that the the match will be over by then.
我大概计划在外面待几个小时。
I I kinda planned my time outside for, like, a couple of hours.
我原以为两个半小时就能结束，结果比赛一直持续。
I thought it's gonna be, like, two and a half hours, and they kept going.
他们打了五个多小时。
They they went for five and something hours.
所以我们又回去看了两个小时。
So we went back, and we ended up watching for two hours.
ExpressVPN是保护您在线隐私的简单方式。
ExpressVPN is the simple way to protect your privacy online.
在美国，互联网服务提供商记录你的在线活动并可以出售你的数据。
In The US, Internet providers record your online activity and can sell your data.
在许多国家，他们甚至被法律要求存储你的信息多年。
In many countries, they've even legally required to store your information for years.
我和数百万人一样，使用ExpressVPN来阻止追踪。
Along with millions of others, I use ExpressVPN to stop the tracking.
它能隐藏你的IP地址，并通过加密服务器路由你所有的活动，防止广告商和骗子获取你的数据。
It hides your IP address, and it routes all your activity through encrypted servers to keep advertisers and scammers from accessing your data.
你可以选择所需的保护级别。
You can choose the level of protection you need.
基础套餐每月仅需3.49美元，每天不到12美分。
The basic plan is just $3.49 a month, less than 12¢ a day.
现在访问expressvpn.com/peers，你还能额外获得四个月的ExpressVPN服务。
Right now, you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN if you go to expressvpn.com/peers.
扫描屏幕上的二维码或访问expressvpn.com/peers，即可获得额外四个月的服务。
To scan the QR code on the screen or go to expressvpn.com/peers to get four additional months of service.
网址是expressvpn.com/peers。
That's expressvpn.com/peers.
观看时你有什么感受？
What were you feeling watching them?
说实话，真的，不，我当时的感受很复杂。
Honestly, honestly, no, I was feeling various things.
首先，我感受到一种抗拒观看的情绪。
First, I was feeling like a refusal to watch.
我当时觉得，我有点被迫观看，只是因为家人想让我看。
I was like, I was kind of forced to watch just because my family wants me to watch.
我不记得了
I can't remember
如何
how of
观看。
watching.
什么
What
对。
Right.
然后很快这种感觉就消失了，因为当我观看网球时——我想对C罗来说看足球也是一样——你会用不同于普通足球或网球球迷的眼光来看待。
And so then I but that went away quickly because then I was really You know, when I watch tennis, which is I assume for Cristiano when he watches football, you see it with a different eyes than a regular football or tennis fan.
一开始我分析得非常细致。
And then I was very analytical at the beginning.
我当时试图理解比赛，分析他们在战术上如何互相针对。
I was like, you know, trying to understand the game and what they're tactically doing to each other.
然后我进入了欣赏阶段。
And then I entered the phase of admiration.
我一生中很少在观看别人比赛时产生这种感觉。
And I haven't felt that too many times in my life when I was watching someone else play.
我看费德勒和纳达尔对决时有过几次这样的感受。
I've felt it a couple of times when I watched Feather and Nadal face each other.
我一生中大概只看过四五场比赛让我惊叹，哇，这简直是天文级别的网球水平。
So just maybe four or five matches in my life that I watched and I said, wow, this is astronomical level of tennis.
太不可思议了。
It's amazing.
这就是我的感受。
So, that's what I felt
但你心里是否也在想，我不确定自己现在能否在这个级别与他们竞争？
But is part of you also thinking, I'm not sure I can compete against these guys at this level now?
你是否在想，实际上，
Is part of you thinking, Actually,
我现在的最佳水平，他们现在的最佳水平，他们更强。
my best level now, their best level now, they're better.
懂吗？
Okay?
这就是现实。
That's the reality.
我的职业生涯大部分时间里，你知道，那些视觉化训练技巧让我达到了心理韧性和自信的高度，那些成就，你知道，我总是相信那些几乎不可能实现的事情。
I mean, most of my career, you know, the visualization practice, the techniques that, you know, brought me to the level of the mental strength and self belief, and the achievements that, you know, I have always believed in things that are almost impossible to achieve.
我知道我告诉自己的信息，或给自己发出的信号，那些内心的独白和说出口的话，都会传递给宇宙并以你发送的方式回馈给你。
And I knew that the message that I tell myself, or the signal that I give to myself, the words that I'm telling myself internally, and what I verbalize, is sent out to the universe and it comes back in the same way that you sent it.
所以我总是尽量保持谨慎，显然要保持非常积极乐观并不总是可能的。
So I always trying to be very cautious, and it's not always possible to be very positive and optimistic, obviously.
但我从小就被教导要高度评价自己并培养自信，因为无论是体育还是生活中其他事情，这终将为你带来回报，让你追逐梦想。
But I was trained from a young age to think greatly about myself and to nurture the self confidence because that's going to eventually, whether it's sport or anything else in life, bring you the rewards and allow you to chase your dream.
基本上，接受任何界限，你懂的。
And basically, settle for any boundaries, you know.
我的童年，你知道的，到处都是界限。
My childhood was, you know, boundaries all over the place.
你知道，它来自一个饱受战争摧残、受到制裁禁运的国家，网球在我们国家毫无传统可言。
You know, it comes from a country that was war torn, sanctions embargo, tennis, zero tradition of tennis in our country.
所以，你知道，最昂贵的运动，我家庭以及国内大多数家庭的贫困与匮乏。
So, you know, most expensive sport, you know, the scarcity and poverty of my family and all the other families in our country, most of the families.
所以我选择了最昂贵的运动，99%的人显然都在嘲笑我们。
So I picked the most expensive sport, so 99% of the people were obviously laughing at us.
嘲笑我们，我说'我们'主要是因为我的父亲...父亲当时觉得你是在浪费，对吧？
At us, I'm saying us because primarily my father and my father, I just thought you were wasting, right?
我的父母都付出了...我永远无法报答他们为我所做的一切。
Both of my parents, they've done, you know, I cannot never repay them for what they've done for me enough.
父亲对我的信心常常超过我对自己的信心。
My father believed very often times more than I believed in myself.
这就是为什么我说'我们'。
So that's why I say us.
但回到重点，我理解思想的力量，但同时存在生理因素，我即将39岁，身体的磨损是真实存在的。
But, you know, so going back to the point, yes, I understand the power of the thoughts, but at the same time, there's a biology, there are things that are happening, and I'm, you know, 38 going into 39, and the wear and tear is real.
某种程度上我相信自己是个永不受伤、永不虚弱的超人。
And I believe that, to some extent, I'm a superman that can never injure himself, that can never be weak, etcetera.
但过去几年现实给了我一记耳光。
But, you know, I got a slap from reality the last couple of years.
这并非我在付出代价，而是我正在了解这个新篇章。
And it's not like I'm paying the price, but I'm just getting to know this new chapter.
我有两个字要对你说。
I have two words for you.
对。
Yeah.
泰格·伍兹。
Tiger Woods.
泰格·伍兹，绝对无与伦比的高尔夫球手，世界排名第一。
So Tiger Woods, absolutely peerless golfer, number one in the world.
丁经历了与你截然不同的轨迹，但他经历了许多波折，导致世界排名跌至第1100位。
Ding went through very different trajectory to your story, but he went through a lot of stuff, which meant he plunged to number 1,100 in the world.
有一段精彩的视频，我记得是耐克制作的。
And there's a brilliant video, I think Nike did it.
这是个混剪视频，记录着所有人对他的否定。
It's a mash up video of everyone writing him off.
他完了。
He's finished.
他结束了。
He's done.
他再也不可能赢了。
He'll never win again.
当时人们都在嘲笑泰格，对吧？
Well, Tiger was they're laughing at him, right?
然后他在2019年赢得了大师赛。
And then he wins the Masters in 2019.
出乎所有人意料，他击败了所有年轻选手。
Against all expectations, he takes all the young pups down.
你觉得，比如说，明年或后年，会不会突然在温网夺冠？
Do you think, like, you know, next year, the year after, suddenly at Wimbledon?
我想我上次已经做到过了。
Think I've done that already last time.
嗯，你确实做到了。
Well, you have.
我23岁了。
I'm 23.
是啊。
Yeah.
但你觉得20个其他词
But do you think 20 other words
实际上参加过四届奥运会。
four actually Olympic games.
你觉得会不会有几年你可能没赢，然后再次夺冠？
Do you think there could be a few years perhaps where you don't win, and then you win again?
这是否在你的性格中
And is that in your makeup
能做到这点吗？
to do that?
说到你的观点，是的，我确实对自己能否赢得大满贯赛事，尤其是对阵这两位选手时，抱有更多疑虑。
So to your point, yes, I do have more doubts that I can win slams particularly against these two guys.
但与此同时，我知道只要我还活跃在赛场上，当我踏上球场时，我不在乎对面站着的是谁。
But at the same time, I know that when I while I'm still active and when I enter in the court, you know, I don't care who is across the net.
我始终相信自己更优秀，相信自己配得上胜利，并且会竭尽全力去争取胜利。
I always believe I'm better and I believe that I deserve to win and I'm gonna do everything I can do to win.
所以，归根结底就是这一点。
So, bottom line is that one.
你知道，我仍在培养冠军心态，而我最主要的目标之一就是保持身体状态良好，
You know, I'm nurturing still the winners mentality and I just hope, and this is one of my primary goals, to maintain the body in shape that is
如果我能让你安心的话，你的体型并不差。
If I can be reassuring, you're not in bad shape.
我的体型不差。
I'm not in a bad shape.
我只是在开玩笑。
I'm all being funny.
表面上看起来。
To the eye.
如果你想知道走形的身材是什么样子，眼前就有一个活生生的例子，
If you want to know what an out of shape body looks like, exhibit one is staring you in
不，不是这样的。
No, the no.
你说得对。
You were right.
我原以为会更糟。
I expected worse.
你是对的。
You were right.
我前账号置顶的推文是C罗在上次采访中说的：‘嗯，看得出你腹肌不错。’
I have a my pinned tweet on my ex account is Cristiano from the last interview saying, Yeah, can see you have good abdominals.
我回答：‘谢谢。’
And I say, Thank you.
这条推文已有2亿浏览量。
And it's had 200,000,000 views.
所以2亿人都以为C罗对我说过‘你腹肌很棒’。
So 200,000,000 people think Cristiano Ronaldo said to me, My abs were great.
我就当是这样了。
I'll take it.
我要开始剪辑了
I'm going splice up
我不知道这是美国还是英国的工作室。
I you fake the don't know if it's US or UK studio.
你的玻璃茶几很高，巧妙地藏住了不想在电视上展示的东西。
I think your glass table is quite high, you're kind of intelligently like hiding what you don't want to display on the TV.
这挺不错的。
It's pretty good.
告诉你，我只在电视上和一位职业网球选手打过球。
I'll let you know, I've only played one pro tennis player on television.
那是塞雷娜·威廉姆斯。
It was Serena Williams.
看看视频吧。
Check the video.
我就说这么多。
It's all I'll say.
某个瞬间，她喊道：天啊，你太棒了。
At one stage, screams, Oh God, you're good.
关于我的网球表现，我听了那段评价。
About my tennis, I listened to that.
哇。
Wow.
确实很了不起。
And it is quite something.
你做采访前会听这个吗？
Do you listen to that before you do your interviews?
今早我才看的，当时我就知道这能带来很棒的效果。
I just watched it this morning before I knew I wanted That's to see great.
听起来是个很好的激励。
It sounds like a good motivation.
我觉得你应该看看。
I think you should watch it.
它能让你充满干劲。
It could get you going.
我发现你的思维方式，因为我认为你的心态与C罗非常相似。
I find your mind, because I think your mindset is very similar to Ronaldo's.
我觉得你们俩，可以说，还要加上迈克尔·乔丹和老虎伍兹。
I think the pair of you have, I would say, would add Michael Jordan, Pete Tiger Woods.
某些运动中的某些人展现出最凶猛的精神力量和韧性，我认为要想成为所在领域的顶尖就必须具备这些特质。
There are certain people in certain sports who I think exhibit just the most ferocious mental strength and resilience, which I think you have to have to be the best of what you do.
而在你的情况中，对我来说最有趣的是这种力量的来源。
And I think in your case, really interesting thing for me is where that comes from.
以C罗为例，他当时就是饥饿，字面意义上的生理饥饿。
In Ronaldo's case, he was just hungry, literally physically hungry.
他讲述过在里斯本青训营时，因为太饿而在麦当劳后面排队只为领免费汉堡的故事。
He tells the story of queuing up behind a McDonald's just to get free burgers because he was so hungry when he was at the Lisbon Academy.
你的情况，我认为是与生俱来的——如果我说的不对请纠正——你提到自己来自一个饱受战争摧残的国家。
In your case, I think it was born, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you talk about coming from a war torn country.
当北约炸弹月复一月地轰炸贝尔格莱德时，你就在那里。
You were in Belgrade as the NATO bombs were crashing down for month after month after month.
我读到过你现在连听到烟花声都会产生轻微的创伤后应激障碍。
I've read that you can't even listen or hear fireworks without this giving you slightly traumatic PTSD.
在你年轻时经历那些，能否带我回到那个时刻？
To go through that when you were a young guy as you were, just take me back there for a moment.
那段时期你最鲜活的记忆是什么？
What are your most vivid memories of that time?
其实这很有趣。
Actually, it's interesting.
我不知道C罗排队挨饿的经历。
I didn't know about Cristiano's experience of waiting in line, literally being hungry.
我也有类似的经历。
I have something similar.
我想那时我大概六七岁，我们在90年代经历了两次战争。
I was, I think, I could have been six, seven years of age, and we, you know, we had two wars in the 90s.
先是南斯拉夫解体战争，然后是99年的轰炸。
We had the Yugoslavian Breakout War, and then we had the bombings in '99.
所以从90年代初91年战争开始，到90年代末我们一直处于禁运状态。
So between the start of the 90s, '91 when the war started, and end of 90s we had embargo.
我想大概持续了四五年，甚至更久。
I think maybe four or five years, maybe even more.
显然物资无法进出国家，贫困程度自然极高。
So, you know, obviously nothing comes in and comes out of the country and obviously, you know, the poverty level was extremely high.
我们全家七八口人排队领一条面包分着吃。
And we were waiting in line for one loaf of bread that us, family of seven or eight, were sharing that day.
这些生活经历都无比真实。
And so those experiences, life experiences, were very real.
这让我的成长历程在某种意义上更加特别——正因为这样的成长环境，我更加懂得珍惜生活和上帝赐予的一切。
And that made my journey even more special in a sense that I appreciate life and everything that life has, and God has granted me with, much more because of my upbringing.
通常我不愿以悲情色彩回忆这些，不是悲伤，而是不想抱怨，因为我相信每个人都有自己的十字架要背负。
So, I normally don't like to reflect on that with a great sense of, how can I say, not sadness, but in a sense, like, don't want to whine about it or complain about it because I believe that, you know, everyone wears a cross on his or her's back that he or she is meant to wear?
所以我的人生旅程是独一无二的，它塑造了今天的我。
So, my journey is my unique personal journey that I had to go through and made me who I am.
为此我深表感激。
So I'm very grateful for that.
这容易吗？
Was it easy?
不，绝对不容易。
No, absolutely wasn't easy.
但这是我人格中不可或缺的核心部分。
But that was essential, integral part of who I am as a person.
这或许正是我精神力量和韧性的根基。
And that is probably the foundation of my mental strength and resilience.
当你对明天充满疑虑时——不仅为自己，更为整个家庭、城市和国家担忧能否活到明天——相比之下，在大满贯赛上面临赛点就没那么艰难了。
When you are, you know, in doubt of what tomorrow brings, not just for yourself, but for your entire family and for your city, for your country, and whether you will be able to survive the next day, facing a match point in Grand Slam is not that hard.
你知道板球运动员基思·米勒有句名言，他是五六十年代的澳大利亚人。
You know, there's a great quote from a cricket player called Keith Miller, who was an Australian in the fifties and sixties.
全能型选手，潇洒不羁的性格，也是个派对狂人。
Great all rounder, swashbuckling character, big party guy as well.
二战期间他在澳大利亚皇家空军服役。
And he flew in the second world war in the Royal Australian Air Force.
开的应该是轰炸机。
Flew bombers, I think.
战后他担任澳大利亚队队长参加比赛（我记得是对阵英格兰），首日赛况不利后记者问他。
And when he came back he was captaining Australia in a game, I think against England, and the press asked him after the first day, difficult day for Australia, they were struggling.
他们说：『您一定倍感压力吧，先生。』
They said, You must be feeling the pressure, Mr.
米勒。
Miller.
他曾有名言：压力？
And he famously said, Pressure?
他说，让我告诉你什么是压力，伙计。
He said, let me tell you what pressure is, mate.
压力是屁股后面跟着个梅瑟史密斯，而不是一场板球比赛。
Pressure is having a Messersmith up your ass, not a game of cricket.
对。
Right.
我是说，这才是你真正想表达的。
I mean, that's really what you're getting at.
对吧？
Right?
对你来说，压力不是对阵费德勒的赛点。
Pressure for you is not a match point against Federer.
而是你能否在炸弹落到头顶时活下来。
It's whether you're going to actually survive bombs coming over your Right.
所以这是个视角问题，我同意这点。
So it's a matter of perspective, I agree with that.
而且我认为当有人这么说时，确实能让人看清事情的本质。
And I think it puts things in perspective when someone says that.
尽管如此，我仍然认为我们运动员所经历的压力，或是你在工作中、他人在各自工作中感受到的压力，都是真实存在的。
Nevertheless, I still feel that pressure that we experience as athletes, or your experience in your work or someone else in their work, is real.
有时换个角度看问题会有所帮助，但很多时候并非如此。
And sometimes it can help to put things in perspective, but a lot of times it doesn't.
那么我这话是什么意思呢？
So what do I mean by that?
我认为重要的是要明白，你所经历的都是真实存在的体验，你无法克服某些任务和挑战、在压力下崩溃，这并不意味着你软弱。
I think it's important to understand that, you know, what you're going through is a real experience, and that you not being able to overcome certain tasks and challenges and folding under pressure, you know, doesn't make you weak.
这恰恰说明你是个正在经历这些的普通人。
It makes you a human being that goes through that experience.
比如乔丹，你提到他是我曾经的体育偶像之一，显然是全球顶级运动项目的GOAT（史上最佳）之一。
So, Jordan, for example, that was one of my sporting idols that you mentioned, one of the, obviously, GOATs of the big global sports.
他说过，人们只记得他投进的球。
He, you know, he said that people remember his the shots that he made.
人们只记得他的
People remember his
今天在Joy论坛上的头衔。
title today at the Joy Forum.
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我引用过他的原话：'他们从不提那3000次'
I quoted the fact, he said, They never talk about the 3,000
他们从不谈论他投丢的那些球。
They never talk about those shots that he missed.
我最喜欢他的一句话是：'我投丢，投丢，再投丢；或者说我失败，失败，再失败——这就是我成功的原因。'
And one of my favorite quotes of him, he says, I missed and I missed and I missed, or I failed, I failed, I failed, and that's why I succeeded.
很多时候人们总幻想那些伟大的体育冠军、运动员和偶像都是完美无缺的半神，但事实绝非如此。
So, a lot of the times people have this fantasy of the great sporting champions and athletes and icons of being the faultless, you know, demigods that can It's do it absolutely not like that.
我是说，在我的职业生涯中失败过很多次。
I mean, I failed so many times in my career.
实际上，我在大满贯决赛中的胜率接近50%。
Actually, I almost have a 50% success rate at the Grand Slam Finals.
比那还要高一点。
A bit more than that.
所以你几乎输掉了
So you've lost nearly
一半。
half.
仔细想想这并不算太好。
Which is not that great when you think about it.
我参加过很多次大满贯决赛，赢了24次，但输了...现在记不清具体数字了，总之很多次。
I played many Grand Slam Finals and I won 24, but I lost, I don't know how many at the moment, but anyway, quite a lot.
关键是你要经历这些，因为这在生活的各个领域都是相通的。
So, the point is that you need to go through that experience because, and this is very consistent across all the fields of life.
所有成功人士都会说，你从失败中学到的东西总是比从胜利中学到的多得多。
All the successful people always say, you learn always much more from your failures than from your wins.
在体育界，我观察到特别是男性存在这种略带教条和耻辱的情绪观念。
So, in sports, what I see and what I notice, particularly with men, is that there is this a little bit of a dogmatic and stigmatic mindset about emotions.
你知道，脆弱会让你显得软弱。
You know, vulnerability makes you weak.
你不能流泪，不能示弱，因为那样你就会成为猎物。
You cannot show your tears, you cannot show your weakness because then, you know, you are the prey.
要知道，我不同意那个观点。
You know, I disagree with that.
在我职业生涯的大部分时间，尤其是早期，我一直相信那才是正确的做法。
I believed for most of my career, for the first part of my career, that that is the way to go.
但很快我就意识到，你不可能永远压抑情绪。
But then soon I realized that, you know, you can't suppress the emotions forever.
最终它们会开始摧毁你的身体、你的心智，或者其他方面。
Eventually they'll start breaking your body, your mind, or whatever.
最终你必须面对那些被你掩盖起来的所有事情。
Eventually you have to address it, all the things that you put under the carpet.
所以从某种意义上说这有点哲学意味，但你要知道，当我踏上球场时，我不是网球选手诺瓦克·德约科维奇。
So basically this is a little bit more philosophical in that sense but, you know, when you're entering on the court, for me, I'm not a tennis player, Novak Djokovic.
我是需要处理私人生活中所有其他事情的诺瓦克·德约科维奇，那些人们不知道或不该知道的事，但我清楚它们，我是个会被内心和大脑所影响的人。
I'm a Novak Djokovic person who has to deal with all the other things that are happening in my private life that people don't know about or should not know about, but I know about them, and I am a human being that I feel affected in my heart and in my brain.
那么这是个难题，因为我完全同意你的观点。
So here's a hard question, because I totally agree with you.
我三十出头时曾管理过一家拥有400名记者的报社新闻部，生活中经常要处理各种糟糕的事情。
I had to run a newspaper, newsroom of 400 journalists aged in my early 30s, and often you'd have all sorts of terrible stuff to deal with in your life.
你必须走出去，必须散发出无懈可击的气场和超强的自信，否则就无法扮演好领导者的角色。
And you've got to walk out, you've got to exude an air of invincibility, of super confidence, because otherwise the act doesn't play as the leader.
所以我完全理解这部分。
So I totally get that part of it.
但当你被生活中的困境所激励时，还是真正快乐时，你的表现会更好？
But did you play better when you were fueled by difficult things going on in your life, or when you were really happy?
很多人说，比如音乐人，他们开心时创作的专辑很糟糕，但痛苦时反而能出杰作。
A lot of people say, like musicians, that their albums when they're happy are terrible, but when they're tormented, they're great.
艺术家、画家也是如此。
Artists, painters, same thing.
说实话，你什么时候网球打得最好？
If you're honest, when have you played your greatest tennis?
是在人生低谷时，还是快乐时？
At times of difficulty in your life, or at times of happiness?
我觉得两者都有。
I would say both.
没错。
Right.
我认为两者皆有。
I would say both.
我尊重并理解你以及他们的观点。
I respect that, and I understand your point and their point.
确实，我曾经历过——当我遭遇重重困境、人生低谷时，反而能汲取力量将其转化为动力，从而打出最佳状态。
And it's true that I have experienced, you know, when I was experiencing a lot of adversity and, some difficult moments in my life, that's when I, you know, draw this strength and turn it, convert it into fuel that then helps me perform my best tennis.
可以说这是我青少年时期的主线剧情——转入职业网坛后接连赢得大满贯初期赛事
Which you can say that it was a kind of a storyline of, you know, most of my junior days and kind of coming into professional tennis and kind of winning the first, you know, bunch of slams
在
in
那种充满饥饿感、想要证明所有人都错了的情绪中——对我童年的不满，迫切想要向自己和他人证明我能成为最强者，实现那些看似不可能的梦想，毕竟我来自那样的环境和境遇。
that kind of emotion of, like, hunger and needing to prove everybody wrong and, and like being upset with the childhood that I had and needing to like just, you know, prove to myself and others that I am, you know, the best, and I can be the best, and I can live these dreams from, you know, coming from that kind of environment and circumstances.
但我也觉得，这其实因人而异，主要取决于你从何处汲取力量。
But I also, I mean, I think that it just depends, it's quite relative and individual, so it just depends where you draw your strength from mostly.
所以我认为这种心态至少在某种程度上对我有所帮助。
So I think that kind of mentality helps to, at least in my case, to a certain extent.
然后你就会对此感到厌倦。
And then you get fed up with that.
你知道，我不想从负面情绪中获取动力，比如因为有人讨厌我或说了什么，我就要证明他们是错的。
You know, like I don't want to be drawing things from, let's say, somewhat of a negative emotion just because somebody hates me or said something or whatever, so I'm going to prove him or them or whatever wrong.
尽管这种动力有时依然存在。
Even though that is also a fuel, still it remains at times.
但我会说，这更多是一种建设性的能量。
But it's more really a constructive energy, I would say.
更像是，好吧，至少在我人生的这个阶段，过去五年里，我已经在这项运动中取得了巨大成就。
It's more like, okay, at least at this point in my life, in the last five years, it's like, okay, I have achieved great things in this sport.
你知道，大约在疫情后，我进入了职业生涯的最后阶段，当时不知道会怎样，现在也不知道会持续多久。
You know, probably around post COVID time is when I entered this last phase of my career that I didn't know how, and still don't know how long that's gonna last.
但是，你知道，我该如何看待自己的网球职业生涯，又该如何平衡家庭生活？
But, you know, how am I going to feel about, you know, my career playing tennis, and how am I going to balance it with family life?
因为你提到了父亲身份，这对我而言极其重要。
Because you mentioned the fatherhood, that's something extremely important to me.
所以需要做出很多牺牲，但我不想错过家庭中最重要的事情和关键日子。
So there's a lot of sacrifice that you have to do, and I don't want to miss out on the greatest things of my family, the most important dates.
我不希望孩子们因为我不在场而记不住我。
I don't want my kids to, you know, not remember me for being there.
我想我们很多父亲都是因为工作而四处奔波。
I think a lot of us fathers that are traveling for our work Yeah.
要理解这种非常情绪化的感受。
Understand this very emotional.
克里斯蒂安，我刚才就在说这个。
Christian, I was talking about it.
就在那时我意识到，我必须重构思维方式，某种意义上重塑自我，并从其他事物中汲取动力。
So so that's when I realized that I have to, you know, reconstruct the way I'm thinking and reinvent myself in a sense and draw the fuel and motivation from other things.
回顾过去，那一刻对你来说意味着什么？
When the moment, if you look back so far?
打断一下，对我来说最大的动力之一就是希望两个孩子都能长大到亲眼见证他们的父亲赢得大满贯。
To interrupt, but for me, one of the things that I want to say is, one of the greatest motivations is to have both of my children be old enough to experience their daddy winning Grand Slams and being there.
而我已经非常幸运地多次体验过这种时刻。
And I have been so blessed and fortunate to experience that multiple times now.
所以这对我来说不是来自负面情绪的动力，恰恰相反。
So that for me is fuel not or motivation that comes from a negative place in contrary.
所以我觉得你可以做到
So I feel like you can do
这一点。
it.
你可以两者兼得。
You can have both.
这完全取决于你处在人生的哪个阶段。
It just depends where you are in your phase in life.
在你迄今为止的职业生涯中，那个巅峰时刻是什么时候？
When was the utopia moment for you in your playing career to date?
换句话说，如果让你重温一场比赛、一局、一盘，或者职业生涯的某个阶段——因为那一刻你感觉自己打出了前所未有的最高水平，你会选择
In other words, if I could let you relive one match, one game, one set, whatever it may be, a period of your career, if I could let you relive it because at that moment you felt like you were playing at the highest level you've ever played at, what would
哪个时刻？
it be?
2015年到2016年中旬。
2015 to mid-twenty sixteen.
那是什么感觉？
What's that feeling?
那十八个月。
Those eighteen months.
昨晚我们团队还在回忆那段时光。
We were actually reflecting on that last night with my team.
那种感觉是怎样的？
What's that feeling like?
因为你所向无敌，没人能击败你。
Because you're unbeatable, No one can beat you.
就是无敌的存在。
It's invincible.
差不多就是那样，毫不夸张。
Pretty much like that, literally.
哦，超人。
Oh, Superman.
不是吗？
Isn't it?
这简直，就是一种美妙的感觉。
It's just a, it's a great feel.
我是说，这是一种很棒的感觉。
I mean, it's a great feeling.
说实话，你现在飘飘欲仙。
Honestly, you're on the clouds.
我的意思是，你现在就像点石成金，做什么成什么。
I mean, you're just, like, anything you do turns to gold, or anything you touch.
我是说，这种情况...而且我觉得，没有多少运动员能长期保持这种状态。
I mean, it just, and I, you know, not many athletes maybe experienced that for so long.
没有。
No.
你明白吗？
You know?
所以我...我在看...
So I I'm I'm look.
我真的很幸运。
I'm blessed.
你知道吗？
You know?
我...
I I
是否有其他球员能意味着，让我们暂停关于史上最佳的争论。
Could any other player mean, let's park the GOAT debate.
对。
Right.
因为那关乎整个职业生涯。
Because that's over a whole career.
但你认为在那个时期，历史上还有其他球员能击败你吗？
But do you think in that period, any other player in history could have beaten you?
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
那时候的话，没有。
At that time, no.
但话说回来，你可以假设如果呢？
But again, you can what if?
你或许可以
You can maybe
进行
make
各种比较之类的。
comparisons and whatever.
一些非常出色的球员，无论是现在的还是五十年前的。
Some amazing players, whatever, of today or fifty years ago.
就在你巅峰时期，你会进入运动心理学中常提到的那个‘状态’——冠军们所说的‘心流’，那是最难达到却又最易失去的心理境界。
I just when you are in your prime and then you enter this zone that is often mentioned in the psychology of the sport, where champions are talking about, you know, being in the zone, the most difficult place or state of mind to achieve, but easiest to lose.
而我在那里停留了十八个月。
And I've stayed there for eighteen months.
所以我...是的。
So I I've yeah.
那是
It was
我能看出来，甚至在你回忆的时候。
I can tell even even as you're remembering it.
那是最棒的
It's the greatest
它带来一种温暖的光芒。
It's bringing a warm glow.
是啊。
Yeah.
就像冲浪一样。
It's like surfing.
而且永远不会停止，确实如此。
And it never stops Exactly.
持续了18...最终它还是崩溃了。
For 18 And then eventually it crashes down.
最终它还是崩溃了。
Eventually it crashes down.
这是生命的轮回。
It's the cycle of life.
我其实很喜欢用海浪来比喻人生。
I like the analogy of the waves actually for life.
你知道的，起起落落，浮浮沉沉。
You know, it goes up and down, up and down.
衰老就像货运列车般迎面撞来——至少别人是这么告诉我的。
Getting older hits you like a freight train or so people tell me.
关节僵硬、健身恢复期漫长、皮肤松弛。
Stiff joints, gym recovery dragging on, loose skin.
衰老是残酷的，但不必让它获胜。
Aging is cruel, but it doesn't have to win.
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You can even stir it into your morning coffee.
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他们会询问您是从哪里听说他们的。
They will ask you where you heard about them.
请支持我们的节目，告诉他们是我推荐您来的。
Well, please support our show and tell them that I sent you.
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And here's the best part.
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英国前首相吉姆·卡拉汉在70年代曾说过，担任首相初期就像身处暴风雨中的海洋，被一波又一波的巨浪不断冲击。
There was a British prime minister who, Jim Callaghan, the 70s, and he said that being Prime Minister, that early on it's like you're in a stormy ocean, and you're being crashed by wave after wave after wave.
最终你会意识到情况总是如此。
And eventually you realize it's always like that.
于是你学会乘风破浪，驾驭浪潮。
And so you learn to ride the waves and navigate the waves.
虽然我从未身处其境，但我想象那就像顶级运动员站在世界之巅的感觉。
I imagine I've never been in this position but I imagine being an elite sportsman at the highest level.
就是那种状态。
That's what it's like.
持续经受风暴考验 当你处于巅峰状态时——就像我那时连续参加了近20场决赛，在所有场地类型、所有赛事中所向披靡。
Weathering the storm constantly And when you are, riding the wave or invincibility or, you know, because at that period I had, I think, almost 20 or 19 finals in a row and, you know, dominating in all surfaces, in all tournaments.
没有我参加却未进入决赛的比赛。
There was no tournament that I didn't play that I was not in the finals.
所以，
So,
这种状态在心理和情感上其实很危险，你懂的——你会觉得每周参赛都不累，状态绝佳，无人能敌等等。
that's also quite a dangerous place to be in, mentally and emotionally, if you know what I mean, because you're like, I mean, I can play every week, I don't get tired, I'm fine, I'm great, nobody can beat me and so forth.
于是自我膨胀，直到自然规律让你从浪尖跌落，这时打击会比任何时候都更猛烈
So your ego grows, you know, and then the natural cycle of the waves has come to the point of decline and then it hits you harder than
永远。
ever.
没错。
Right.
那正是我职业生涯中遭遇最严重伤病的时候——肘部受伤，我接受了手术，几乎一年没能参赛。这记耳光来得太突然，让我措手不及。
And that's when I actually had the biggest injury in my career which was my elbow and I operated I went out of the tour for almost a year and so forth so that was a big you know slap in my face like oh wow okay.
从所向披靡到跌落神坛
Go from invincible and then you're not
即便在那次重伤前，我也在一步步走向极限。我不断用药物和止痛片麻痹自己，告诉自己‘继续坚持’
playing Go invincible but even when I before that big injury was coming slowly step by step and I was kind of masking it and, you know, you take tablets and painkillers and you're like, No, I just keep going.
我选择对伤痛视而不见
I will not address it now.
身体不断发出警告信号
Your body sends you signals.
你却强行压制这些信号
You stop those signals.
在顶级竞技体育中，这形成了可怕的恶性循环。我相信顶尖运动员都深有体会——这是个极其危险的境地，因为越拖延治疗，伤势就会越严重。
And that's it's a vicious cycle on the highest level of sport and I'm sure that the athletes who play on the highest level understand this because this is, it's a super dangerous place to be in because the more you delay proper addressing of the injury, the worse it gets.
我特别记得温网的一个时刻，那是我从小梦想要夺冠的赛事。
And I remember particularly one point in Wimbledon that was my always childhood dream tournament to play on and to win.
2016年，我捧起法网奖杯，成为史上同时持有四大满贯的选手之一。
2016, I held, I won my first Roland Garros and I held all four slams at the same time.
能做到这一点的球员，在网球史上屈指可数。
I was one of the, you know, very few players in history that managed to do that.
我从未如此，当时我正告诉身边所有人——我的妻子、父母以及所有亲近的人——他们都说，也许你该稍作休息再回来，因为你已经达成了一切目标。但我心想，不不不，我的意思是，别担心动力问题。
And I never, and I was telling all of the people around me, you know, my wife, parents and everybody that were like, you know, maybe you should take a little break and then come back and then, like, you know, because you achieved it all and then it's like, no, no, no, I mean, don't worry about motivation.
我对此毫无异议。
I have no issue with that.
我永远无法体会那些我读到或听其他运动员描述的感受，他们说，'到了某个时刻，你会感到内心空虚。'
I'm never going to experience something that I have read or heard other athletes experiencing that they said, Well, you know, it comes to the point where you just feel empty.
但我的反应是，'这是什么感觉？'
But I was like, What is this?
就像在说，我永远不会有这种体验。
Like, I'm never gonna experience that.
结果几周后我就亲身体验到了。
And I experienced it a few weeks later.
那是温网第三轮的一场胜利，场地条件很特殊。
For the first time ever, it was a court won in Wimbledon, third round.
当时对阵山姆·奎里。
Was playing Sam Query.
我记得是第三还是第四盘时，比赛因雨中断。
And I think it was third or fourth set, it was a rain interruption.
我们遭遇了两次雨停。
We had two rain interruptions.
第一次中断时，团队过来讨论，理疗师帮我做了些拉伸。
The first one, my team joined me and we talked and I had a little stretch in my physio.
重新上场后我继续比赛，当时已经落后两盘。
We went back and I kept going And I was two sets to love down.
我赢了第三盘，势头开始转向我，在场上感觉也好多了。
I won the third set and I gained the momentum and I felt better about being on the court.
又一场雨延误了比赛。
Another rain in delay.
我回到体育场的隔离房间，队友们过来时我说：伙计们，让我一个人待会儿。
I go back to the isolated room in the stadium and my team comes and I'm like, Guys, you just have to leave me alone.
我只想独处。
I just want to be by myself.
他们却说：你不需要...也许我们可以聊聊？
And they're like, You don't need, you know, maybe we talk?
不，我就是不想说话。
No, I just don't want to talk.
我扔下球包和所有东西，不想喝水，只是盯着墙壁发了二三十分钟呆，那是我第一次感到真正的空虚。
And I let the bags, everything, I didn't want to drink, I just stared at the wall for twenty or thirty minutes, and that's the first time I felt really empty.
就在那时我意识到，多年来积压的所有压力、紧张、期待和兴奋，所有强烈情绪涌向那个临界点——我的大脑已经超负荷了。
And that's when I realized that, you know, all the stress and tension and excitement and anticipation, all the strong emotions that I was feeling for whatever years coming to that moment, you know, my brain has had enough.
我需要重启自己。
And I just needed to reset.
所以你也需要重启。
And so, you need to reset.
在我的职业生涯中，我不得不多次这样做，当你必须...
And I had to do it many times in my career, where you just have to
那场比赛你到底赢了没有？
Did you win that match or not?
我输掉了那场比赛。
I lost that match.
我输掉了那场比赛，之后休息了一段时间，再复出时跳过了几站赛事。
I lost that match, and then I had a break, and then I came back and I skipped some tournaments.
我复出后打进了美网决赛。
I came back, played finals of The US Open.
就在那一年，安迪·穆雷最终成为年终第一，他在O2体育馆的世界巡回赛总决赛中击败了我。
And then that's the year when Andy Murray ended up as year end number one and he beat me in the O2 Arena in the World Tour Finals.
那场比赛后，尽管我原本对他的积分优势大幅缩水——当时所有人都觉得稳坐年终第一是板上钉钉的事。
And after that match, even though I kind of lost huge gap of the points that I had as an advantage over him, you know, I thought, everybody thought, you know, it's gonna be a piece of cake, you know, finishing as number one.
但他当时状态火热，连续赢得了四五站赛事。
But he, you know, he was red hot on some streak of four or five tournaments, one in a row.
我那时并不在乎是否能以第一收官。
And I didn't care about whether I'm gonna finish number one or not.
这就是我当时所处的阶段和状态。
That's the kind of a stage or condition that I had at the moment.
是心态问题。
Was state of mind.
我只想重拾对这项运动的热爱与激情，因为我已经失去了它。
I was just I just want to regain the love and passion for the sport because I lost it.
情况就是这样。
So that was the case.
这真是对你心路历程的非凡洞察。
Extraordinary insight into what has gone on with you.
太好了，有队伍。
Great There's line.
你说，我12岁那年，父亲让我、母亲和两个弟弟围坐在桌边。
You said, When I was 12, my father sat me, my mother and two younger brothers down at the table.
他在桌上放了10美元，说这是我们全部的钱了。
He left a $10 bill on the table and said, this is all we got.
哇。
Wow.
多么难忘的时刻。
What a moment.
对吧？
Right?
10美元就放在那儿。
$10 sitting there.
就这些了。
That's it.
当时其实是10德国马克，价值相当。
Was actually 10 Deutsche Marks at the time, which is equivalent.
那时候大概相当于10美元左右吧。
At the time, was something like $10 or whatever.
没错。
Right.
是啊。
Yeah.
你还记得吗？
Do you remember?
我清楚地记得事情发生的经过和时间。
I remember very vividly how that happened and when it happened.
因为那是我人生的转折点之一。
Because it was one of the turning points of my life.
我理解父亲背后的用意是：我需要你像个男子汉，需要你比预期更早成熟，可能需要你承担起家中第二父亲的角色，照顾你的兄弟们。
And I understood the message behind it from my father, was, okay, I need you to man up, I need you to mature earlier than you're supposed to, I need you to maybe take the role of the kind of a second father of the home, and take care of your brothers.
你确实感受到了这点。
You really felt that.
我确实感受到了。
I did feel that.
我确实感受到了。
I did feel that.
实际上这帮助了我的网球事业。
And that helped me with my tennis, actually.
我一直很自律，对网球充满热爱与激情，也很幸运遇到了一些精通体育与人生的教练和导师。
I mean, I always had discipline, and I was so in love with tennis, and so passionate about it, and very lucky to encounter certain coaches and mentors and people that were very knowledgeable about sport and life in general.
所以我得到了很好的指导。
So I had very good guidance.
而在家里，由于我们国家当时的环境，大家都承受着很大压力。
And then at home, I mean, because of the circumstances that we were all going through in our country, you know, there was a lot of tension.
我父亲当时面临着生存问题。
Know, my father, he was, you know, it was a matter of survival.
你知道，我母亲那时候要照顾所有人，打扫、做饭、准备我们的一切，就是三个男孩加上父亲。
You know, my mother, she was trying to, you know, navigate everyone, clean, cook, prepare all of us, you know, the three boys plus the father.
而父亲则在想办法让我们这个家庭生存下去。
And father was trying to figure out the way how we can survive as a family.
所以那时候很艰难。
And so it was tough.
真的很艰难。
It was tough.
那就是真实的生活。
It was real life.
但现在回想起来，我其实很感激我们经历了那段日子，因为这会让你更珍惜现在拥有的一切。
But, you know, when I look back to it now, I'm actually grateful that we went through that experience because, you know, it makes you appreciative of everything else that you have right now.
当然。
Of course.
你知道，因为你来自那样的环境。
You know, because you come from that.
你现在身价多少？
How much are you worth now?
你知道吗？
Do you know?
大概知道。
Approximately.
给我个大概数字。
Give me a ballpark.
我不想谈这个，皮尔斯。
I don't like to talk about it, Pearce.
我不喜欢这样。
I don't like it.
你是
Are you a
我能猜猜吗？
can I guess?
我超过一百万了。
I'm north of 1,000,000.
嗯，我猜如果你让我猜的话，我估计至少有三到四亿。
Well, I reckon you're probably if I was a guessing man, I'd say at least 300 to 400,000,000.
也许吧。
Maybe.
我是在暗示吗？
Am I implying?
可能更多。
Maybe more.
你知道，我从未...你看，我们现在生活在一个非常物质化的社会。
You know, I never you know, we live in very materialistic society nowadays.
阿玛尼，我之所以
Armani, the reason I'm
问这个并不是针对你，我只是说我不是那种人。
asking I'm not is not against you, I'm just saying I'm not like that.
我从来都不喜欢我的团队和经纪人，你知道，我们不想把所有信息都透露给《福布斯》，比如我的身价多少或者投资了什么。
I'd never I don't like my team and my agent, you know, we don't, I don't want to give all the information to Forbes, for example, what, you know, how much I'm worth or what the investments are.
你知道的，这不关他们的事。
You know, it's none of their business.
比如，我为什么要公开那些？
Like, why should I disclose that?
出于什么理由？
For what reason?
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
有些东西会随着奖金公开，这很明显，人们会知道合同内容。
Like, there are things that are disclosed with price money, obviously, that people know about or contracts.
但其他事情，不行。
But the other things, no.
钱嘛，我是说，就想想十门家族餐桌上的那一幕
Does money I mean, just given that scene at the family table at 10 doors
钱很重要。
Money is important.
钱很重要。
Money is important.
那钱能给你带来什么呢？
What about does money bring you?
我是说，它能带来显而易见的东西，但钱带给你的安全感是不是能让你照顾好家人？
I mean, it brings you the obvious, but is it the security that money brings you that you can take care of your family?
我猜你已经照顾好了家人。
I presume you've taken care of your family.
金钱非常重要，毫无疑问它能带来安全感。
Money is very important and it does bring security, no doubt about it.
它绝对是当今社会的驱动力之一。
And it is absolutely one of the driving forces of the society of today.
不能忽视金钱的重要性。
Cannot neglect the importance of the money.
但金钱，你知道，如果只想着钱，至少在我看来，以我的经历来说，作为运动员，这更像是一种精英模式。
But money, you know, if money is the only thing you're thinking about, I mean, at least in my case, in my experience, obviously I'm an athlete, for me it's kind of a meritocracy model.
如果我赢得网球比赛或锦标赛，就会获得回报。
If I win a tennis match or win a tournament, I get rewarded.
我会得到赞助合约等等。
I get sponsorship deals, etc.
但同样重要的还有心态，以及你希望围绕自身建立的品牌形象。
But also, you know, it's a lot about the mentality, it's a lot about the brand that you want to create around yourself.
而且我不喜欢——再说一次，我不愿过多谈论这个——但我的确拒绝过许多大品牌和高额支票，因为我无法代言自己不相信的东西。
Have, and I don't like, again, I don't like to talk about this too much, but I did refuse a lot of the big brands and big paychecks in my career because I cannot represent something that I don't believe in.
我觉得自己一直在尝试做长期规划。
And I feel like I've always tried to play a long game.
你拒绝过的最大合作是什么？
What was the biggest one you turned down?
抱歉，我不能透露品牌名称。
I cannot name brands, I'm sorry.
但你知道，它实际上可能是最著名的
But you know, it's actually one of the it's probably the most famous
世界级饮品。
drink in the world.
所以是百事还是可口可乐？
So it's Pepsi or Coke?
无可奉告。
No comment.
五五开的概率。
It's fiftyfifty shot.
不予置评。
No comment.
就是其中之一。
It's one of them.
但既然不具体点名，你当时拒绝的那笔交易金额是多少？
But without naming which one it was then, how much was the deal you rejected?
我很好奇。
I'm curious.
那是很久以前的事了，所以那个条件其实相当不错。
It was it was a long time ago, so it was it was it was pretty good.
几百万？
Few million?
相当不错。
Pretty good.
相当不错。
It was pretty good.
我是说，那需要
I mean, that takes
比那还要多一些。
A bit more than that.
几千万？
Tens of millions?
不是几千万，而是
Not tens, but
很多。
A lot.
接近那个数。
Close to that.
考虑到你当时的家庭状况，拒绝那么多钱需要很大的道德勇气。
Given where you were with the family, to reject that kind of money takes a lot of moral fibre.
我在乎的是正直。
It's the integrity that I care about.
是保护那些对你生命中真正重要的东西。
It's protecting what is you know, valuable to you in your life.
就这么简单。
It's as simple as that.
如果我不喝某种饮料，我的孩子们也不会喝。
If I don't drink something and my kids don't drink it.
你知道的，C罗，你提到过那个著名视频——记得他把佳得乐或可乐移开，换上水并说‘喝水’的那一刻吗？
You know, Ronaldo, you mentioned, that's the famous video, remember when he removed Gatorade or Coca Cola and he put the water in and said, Drink water.
对此非常敬佩。
Respect that a lot.
我对此深感敬佩。
I respect that a lot.
这需要极大的勇气。
It takes a lot of courage.
你看，你们在很多方面有相似之处——他父亲曾为葡萄牙参战，这导致他深陷酗酒等问题，最终英年早逝。
You know, you're a similar term in many ways because his father went to war for Portugal, and that caused him a lot of issues with alcohol and stuff, and caused him to die very young.
他从未真正见证C罗成为后来的超级巨星。
He never really saw Cristiano become the superstar he became.
就在这一切发生前，他去世了。
He died just before that happened.
第一次采访C罗时，我对他你们俩都来自战乱贫困的成长背景这件事感到非常动容。
When I first interviewed Christian, I got quite emotional about his You both come from a kind of war torn upbringing of no money.
有趣的是，他谈到现在为葡萄牙U16效力的儿子时说：'唯一无法给予他的就是真正的饥饿感'。
It's interesting, he was talking about his son, who's now playing for Portugal under sixteens, think, and saying how the one thing you can't give him is actual hunger.
这是你永远无法给予他人的东西。
It's the one thing you can't give people.
如果你是个成功的富人，你无法让孩子体会饥饿。
If you're a successful person with plenty of money, you can't give your kids hunger.
你只能希望这种动力来自内心，但永远不可能像八个人分食一条面包时那么强烈，他现在也面临同样处境
You just have to hope it's driven from within, but it's never probably going to be as intense as when you're sharing a loaf of bread between eight people, or he's doing the same
在这种情境下，无论是他的儿子还是我的儿子，我的意思是，我们可以给予孩子们地球上你能想象到的最好的一切。
His son or my son in this scenario or circumstances that, I mean, we can give our kids as we do everything best that you can imagine in this planet.
但是，没错，我们的孩子们必须找到一个源泉。
But, yeah, our kids have to find a source.
他们必须找到那个源泉。
They have to find that source.
无论这个源泉是什么，无论它在哪里、是什么。
Whatever the source is, wherever and whatever it is.
再回到那个问题——你是否只能从负面情绪中汲取力量，我认为这不是唯一的源泉。
And again, going back to that question of whether you can only draw strength from a negative emotion, I don't think it's the only source.
你也可以从许多积极的事物中获得力量。
You can also draw it from a lot of positive things.
是的。
Yes.
这完全取决于你的天性。
It just depends how wired you are.
有些事情是你无法控制的，作为一个年轻的父亲，我正在学习这一点。
And these are some things you can't control, and I'm learning that as a young father.
比如，我们都希望不是控制孩子，而是控制他们成长的环境，让他们拥有最健康的环境。
Like, we all want to, not control our children, but control the environment that they grow up in, so they can have the healthiest possible environment.
让他们拥有健康的成长环境。
They can have a healthy surrounding.
但你知道，有时候你需要放手。
But, you know, you need to let go.
这是他们的旅程，他们的人生。
It's their journey, it's their life.
所以，我儿子再过几天就满11岁了，他看起来像是选择了打网球。
And so, my son, he's just turning 11 in a few days' time, and he seems like he's choosing to play tennis.
你觉得他感觉如何
How do you he's feel
关于那件事？
about that?
我感到很兴奋。
I feel excited.
他打得好吗？
Is he good?
我感到既兴奋又害怕
I feel excited and frightened at
同时他有没有天赋？
the same Has he got on the talent?
我觉得他遗传了一些好基因。
I think he's got some good genes in him.
嗯，我能看看
Well, could I see
不知道是谁
don't know who's
他拥有最好的。
He's got the best.
但愿他有吧，
Would hope he has, though,
那时候。
back then.
不，不。
No, no.
他很好。
He's good.
我是说，他很好。
I mean, he's good.
但我看着，我想成为他的父亲。
But I look, I want to be his father.
我不想当他的教练。
I don't want to be his coach.
但如果他选择职业网球作为事业，你会介意吗？
But would you mind if he chose professional tennis as his career?
完全不是我的事。
Absolutely not mine.
面对随之而来的所有比较呢？
With all the comparisons that would come his way?
如果那是...我正在慢慢尝试向他介绍网球和体育的世界以及所有这些事物。
If that's the I am slowly trying to introduce the world of tennis and sports and all of these things to him.
我不能一次性把所有东西都灌输给他。
And I can't throw everything at him at once.
你知道，我在挑选合适的时机。
You know, I'm picking and choosing the right moments.
所以如果他选择踏上这段旅程，我会百分百支持他，无论以何种形式陪伴他走好每一步。
And so if this is the journey that he chooses to have, I'm gonna be 1000000% behind him supporting him every step of the way, in whatever shape or form.
但你要知道，就像C罗的儿子一样，他将面临巨大的挑战，主要来自外界的压力。
But, you know, he's gonna have, like Ronaldo's son, you know, a big mountain to climb, mostly because of the other people.
对。
Right.
对吧？
Right?
但如果这是他的选择，那就勇往直前吧。
But if that's the way, yeah, let's go.
真令人兴奋。
Exciting.
一起加油。
Let's go.
帕特说了个
Part did a
等等，C罗是说他想和儿子同场竞技吗？
Wait, did Cristiano say that he would like to live to play with his son in
官方没直接问这个问题，但他提到儿子很有天赋。
I the official didn't ask that exact question, but he said his son's very talented.
他正在葡萄牙国家青年队效力。
He's playing for the Portuguese national team at representative level.
他只是心知肚明，自己无法给予对方曾经拥有的那份东西。
He just he just knows he can't give him that one thing he had.
所以归根结底，那种渴望必须源自内心
And so in in the end, that hunger has to come from within for
那他儿子多大了？
And his son is what?
16岁？
16?
对。
Yeah.
他大概15、16岁吧。
He's about 15, 16.
好吧。
Okay.
他是个非常有天赋的球员。
He's a very talented player.
不。
No.
这这相当现实。
It's it's quite realistic.
我是说，你看C罗还在坚持，看起来他打算
I mean, you know, Cristiano keeps going for which looks like he's gonna
他们可以一起踢球。
They could play together.
他们可以一起打球。
They could play together.
你知道吗？
And you know what?
他还是想进更多球。
He'd still wanna score more goals.
因为是勒布朗嘛。
Because LeBron yeah.
就像勒布朗那样。
Like LeBron.
很有趣。
It's fun.
是啊。
Yeah.
就像勒布朗·詹姆斯，他就是这样生活的。
Like LeBron James, he lived that.
如果有一天你和儿子打网球比赛
If you one day played your son at tennis in
一局。
a game.
那是个梦想。
That's a dream.
你不会让他赢的，对吧？
Wouldn't him win, would you?
要和他比赛吗？
To play against him?
是的。
Yes.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
我我可不想要。
I I don't want no.
我不会我不会想要那样。
I wouldn't I wouldn't want that.
你不会让他打败你吧？
You wouldn't let him beat you?
我从不让自己被打败
I never let myself beat
不会让他打败你。
wouldn't let him beat you.
我会踢他的。
I would kick his.
播客听众们注意了。
Attention podcast people.
我是哈里·科尔，我邀请你们体验真正不同的东西。
I'm Harry Cole, and I invite you to something properly different.
一些紧急的事情。
Something urgent.
真实不虚。
Something real.
节目名为《哈里·科尔拯救西方》。
It's called Harry Cole Saves the West.
如果你厌倦了乏味的评论，又不敢冒犯权威，那么这个节目正适合你。
If you're tired of limp commentary and afraid to offend punditry, then this is the show for you.
我们将用大锤砸碎神圣不可侵犯的禁忌，对抗撕裂美英两国的邪恶势力。
We're taking sledgehammers to sacred cows and battling the malign forces tearing apart The US and UK.
从开放边境到文化崩塌，从经济混乱到国家安全威胁，西方的价值观和自由正面临前所未有的围剿。
From open borders to cultural collapse to economic chaos to the threats to national security, the values and freedoms of the West are under siege like never before.
这是美国勇气与英国骨气相遇的舞台。
This is the show where American grit meets British backbone.
我们将以无畏的真相捍卫信仰、家庭、自由和西方的未来。
We all defend faith, family, freedom and the future of the West with bold, unapologetic truth telling.
如果你已准备好反击，准备好昂首挺立，准备好笑对疯狂，那就点击订阅吧。
So if you're ready to push back, ready to stand tall, ready to laugh at the madness, then hit subscribe.
《哈里·科尔拯救西方》即刻上线。
Harry Cole Saves the West right now.
各大播客平台均可收听。
Available wherever you get your podcasts.
反抗之战由此开始。
The fight back starts here.
对了，记得带上爆米花。
And, yes, bring the popcorn.
外星人在你遇见妻子这件事上扮演了什么角色？
What part did aliens play in your in you meeting your wife?
我用这种特定方式询问是有原因的。
There's a reason I'm asking that in a very specific way.
因为你曾在202年告诉《Hello》杂志，我们的相遇就像科幻小说。
Because you told Hello Magazine in 2023, us getting together was like science fiction.
你还没解释清楚你的意思。
You haven't explained what you mean.
我们当时在约会，是杰琳娜。
We'd be dating, it's Jelena.
你那时18岁。
You were 18.
你们几年后结婚了。
You married several years later.
你嫁给了杨，你遇见了杨。
You married Young, you met Young.
科幻的部分是什么？
What was the science fiction?
有意思。
Funny.
现在我明白这个说法或问题的由来了。
Now I understand where the phrase or the question comes from.
我不记得说过有什么科幻元素。
I don't recall saying there was a science.
我甚至不知道原因。
I don't even know why.
你觉得你记得什么？
What do think you remember?
我为什么要那么说？
Why did I say that?
我正在努力回忆。
I'm trying to recall.
你感觉充满魔力。
You feel magical.
好吧，是这样的，确实发生过，但你知道，我绝对相信命运。
Okay, so the way, right, it did, but, you know, I believe in destiny for sure.
她以前打网球，
So, she used to play tennis,
但是
but
她打球时我们从未通过网球相识。
we never met through tennis while she was playing it.
但她曾和我早期认识的一位网球运动员朋友约会过。
But she dated one tennis player that is a friend of mine from early days.
有趣的是，我第一次听说她是因为那位和我同属网球俱乐部的朋友参加地区网球联赛，我们赢了一场重要比赛。
And it was funny because the first time I heard about her was when that friend who was in the same tennis club as me played a match for in the tennis regional tennis league and we won an important match.
他脱下球衣，里面的白T恤上写着：叶莲娜，我爱你。
He took out his jersey and underneath the jersey had the white shirt written, Yelena, I love you.
真的吗？
Really?
这是给你的。
This is for you.
我们当时就想，天哪，这也太逊了。
And we were like, Oh my God, that's so lame.
比如，你为什么要那么做？
Like, why would you do that?
然后问，这个叶莲娜是谁？
And then, Who is this Yelena?
结果就是她本人。
And it was her.
后来她就出现了，诸如此类的事情。
And then, she showed up afterwards and so forth.
其实我们通过共同朋友认识大概有四五年了。
And then we've known each other through, obviously, common friends for about, you know, four or five years.
实际上我最好的朋友之一一直是她的朋友，他们还是同学。
And actually one of my best friends has been her friend and they went to school together.
所以你看，我们算是同个圈子里的人。
So, you know, we were in a kind of similar same company.
后来，没错，后来我去蒙特卡洛生活时我们就开始约会了。
And then, yeah, and then we started dating when I went to live in Monte Carlo.
那时候她已经从你的朋友升级了。
And she sped up from your friend by then.
她确实这么做了。
And she's yeah, she did.
只是为了说清楚
Just to make it clear
请偷走你那个说'不要'的老爸，让我难堪
Please steal your Don't dad, put me on the spot
这里。
here.
去意大利留学后，我们开始约会。
Went to study in Italy, and then we started to date.
所以她基本上是我唯一认真交往过的长期关系。
So she's basically the only serious, like long serious relationship I ever had.
太棒了。
That's amazing.
是啊。
Yeah.
真了不起。
Amazing.
对。
Yeah.
我是说，我也有过些几个月的关系，但她是我唯一...
I mean, I had, you know, obviously some few months relationships here and there, but I she's the only
真是你一生的挚爱。
Truly the love of your life.
确实是我一生的挚爱。
Truly the love of my life.
是啊。
Yeah.
你的伴侣怎么了？
What happened to your mate?
我的伴侣？
To my mate?
他还是你的...其实我昨天还和他聊过。
Is he still your I actually spoke to him yesterday.
你最近怎么样？
Are you doing?
我确实有。
I really have.
你知道的，
You know,
他，他挺好的。
he's, he's good.
你别开玩笑了，呵呵，他已经走出来了。
You don't make jokes He he he moved on.
他已经走出来了。
He moved on.
他现在有自己的家庭了。
He has his family.
你不会像他那样开玩笑，实际上她从未用更好的球员替换我。
You don't make jokes like He actually never She she swapped me for a better player.
从未提过那件事。
Never spoke about that.
真的吗？
Really?
没有。
No.
我...我觉得我们...我们俩对谈论这事都很不自在。
I I think we are we are both very uncomfortable about speaking.
但我们还是朋友，这挺好的。
We still remain mates, so it's good.
听着。
Listen.
我有几个朋友曾和我妹妹约会过，四十年过去了他们至今仍觉得尴尬。
I've got friends who went out with my sister, a few of them, and they're still uncomfortable forty years later.
所以...好吧。
So Okay.
尽管她已经幸福地结婚近三十年了。
Even though she's been very happily married for nearly thirty years.
对。
Right.
我在Curios的YouTube频道看到你谈论C罗是榜样之类的话题，还提到你使用像Gary Brecker这样的生物黑客——其实我采访过他——关于保持体型、体态、健康和状态的科学方法，你对此相当热衷是吧？
I saw you on Curios' YouTube channel talking about Cristiano being a role model and so on, but also referencing that you use biohackers like Gary Brecker, who I've interviewed actually, that scientific part of maintaining your form, your physique, your fitness, your health and so on, you're quite into that aren't you?
把你的身体视为一座圣殿，你会不惜一切代价保护它，对吧？
See your body like a kind of temple and you want to protect it at all costs, right?
你是否和我一样觉得，在完全过渡到机器人之前，我们会先经历半人半机器人的阶段？就像埃隆·马斯克暗示的那样——当身体某个部位出问题时，可以用机械部件增强，逐渐变成半机械人。
Do you feel with AI, because I do, that what's going to happen, before we fully transition to robots, we're going to have, and Elon Musk has kind of hinted at this, we're going to have part robot, like you could have a problem with a part of your body, and it'll be robotically enhanced and you'll start to become like half human, half robot.
我是说，二十年后诺瓦克·德约科维奇可能还在参赛，但那时他已经是半机械人了？
And could that, I mean, we have Novak Djokovic in twenty years still competing, but you're half robot?
装着机械臂之类的。
With robotic arms and everything.
这有可能发生。
It could happen.
老实说，我不愿想象那种场景。
I don't want to think about that scenario, to be honest.
听着，我认为AI确实能在一定程度上提供帮助，但在人体内植入机器人芯片这种事，我完全反对。
I'm not look, I feel like AI helps for sure, to a certain extent but this whole thing with robots and chips installed in people, I am completely against that.
你见过特斯拉的Optimus人形机器人吗？
Have you seen the humanoid his, Optimus humanoid robots?
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