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Planet Money 将开启巡回活动。
Planet Money is going on tour.
为庆祝我们有史以来的第一本书出版，我们将在全国举办大约十几场活动。
To celebrate the release of our first ever book, we are holding about a dozen events around the country.
有关城市和日期的详细信息，请访问 planetmoneybook.com。
Details on cities and dates at planetmoneybook.com.
那就是 planetmoneybook.com。
That's planetmoneybook.com.
这是来自 NPR 的 Planet Money。
This is Planet Money from NPR.
这看起来像是个挺不错的社区。
This seems like a pretty nice neighborhood.
是的。
Yeah.
这里的每栋房子都黑着灯，说明大家都睡了。
Every house here, the lights are all out, so people are asleep.
我们正悄悄地靠近那辆车。
And we're sneaking up quietly on the car.
拉里·贝克是一名汽车收回专员。
Larry Baker is a repo man.
我们挤在一辆出人意料地小的拖车上，缓慢穿行在俄亥俄州的郊区。
We're crammed in a surprisingly small tow truck creeping through the suburbs in Ohio.
今晚，拉里的任务是找到并收回一辆黑色的雪佛兰Cruze。
Tonight, Larry's job is to find and repossess a black Chevy Cruze.
买这辆车的人已经拖欠了六期付款，贷款公司想要把车要回去。
The person who bought that car is about six payments behind, and the finance company wants its car back.
就在那儿。
It's right there.
那是什么？
What's that?
就在那儿。
It's right there.
好的。
Okay.
让我看看。
Let me see.
我以为这里亮着灯呢。
I thought I'd seen lights on here.
我们开到一栋挺可爱的漂亮小房子前。
We pull up to, like, a charming little house.
那儿有个小花园。
There's a there's a little garden.
院子里有好几个喂鸟器。
There's a couple of bird feeders in the yard.
那辆雪佛兰就停在车道上。
The Chevy is sitting right in the driveway.
房子里一片漆黑。
The house is totally dark.
现在几点了？
What time is it?
大概一点了。
It's about one in the morning.
是的。
Yeah.
我不打算敲门。
I'm not gonna knock on the door.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
我就去拿一下
I'm just gonna grab
然后把它拖出去。
it and I'm gonna drag it out.
好的。
Okay.
我的心真的在剧烈跳动。
My heart is genuinely pounding pretty hard.
有可能有人会醒过来，走出来。
Like, there's a chance somebody is gonna wake up and come out here.
如果他们真的出来了，我们就应对就是了。
And if they do, then we deal with it.
那天晚上我们和拉里一起出来，是想亲眼看看当有人停止支付车款时，车子被收回是什么样子。
We were out with Larry that night because we wanted to see on the ground what it looks like when a car gets repossessed, when somebody stops making their car payments.
而这次，就是这辆黑色的雪佛兰Cruze。
And in this case, it's that black Chevy Cruze.
拉里把车挂到了他的拖车后面。
Larry hooks it up to the back of his tow truck.
好。
K.
所以你100%确定这是正确的车吗？
So you're a 100 sure this is the right car?
是的。
Yeah.
通常，拉里和他妻子玛吉会一起合作完成这些车辆收回工作。
Usually, Larry and his wife Maggie do these repossessions together as a team.
今晚她生病了，这让拉里显得有些孤立无援。
She's out sick tonight, and it's left Larry a little exposed.
他看着那辆雪佛兰Cruze，然后看了看那栋房子。
He looks at the Chevy Cruze, then at the house.
仍然没有迹象表明买这辆车的人醒着。
Still no sign the guy who bought this car is awake.
通常，我妻子会站在车门旁，以防她突然冲出来。
See, usually my wife stands by the door of the car in case she runs out.
这样她就能阻止他跳进车里。
And that way she can stop him from jumping in the car.
嗯，这确实会是一档很刺激的广播节目。
Well, it certainly would be some exciting radio.
几年前的2019年，我们曾跟着拉里进行了一次跟拍，因为当时美国出现了一种令人担忧的趋势。
We went on this ride along with Larry a few years ago in 2019 because at that time, there was this really alarming trend in The United States.
大约有七百万美国人至少拖欠了三个月的汽车贷款。
About 7,000,000 Americans were at least three months behind on their car payments.
这通常就是贷款机构开始考虑收回你车辆的时候。
That's about the time that your lender starts thinking about repossessing your car.
而今天，我们重新审视这一切，是因为在2026年，有更多人拖欠汽车贷款。
And today, we're revisiting all of this because in 2026, even more people are behind on their car payments.
被收回的汽车也更多了。
Even more cars are getting repossessed.
大家好，欢迎收听《星球金钱》。
Hello, and welcome to Planet Money.
我是肯尼·马隆。
I'm Kenny Malone.
我是普丽蒂·瓦拉桑。
I'm Preeti Varathan.
汽车被收回，这可以说是故事的终点。
A repossession, it's kind of the end of a story.
这个故事在这个国家一遍又一遍地重演，主角总是那三个人。
One that's playing over and over again in this country with the same three characters.
今天在节目中，我们要做一些不一样的事情。
Today on the show, we're gonna do something a little different.
我们会以《罗生门》的方式，从三个不同角色的视角来讲这个故事。
We're gonna tell this story three different ways, Rashomon's style, from three different characters' perspectives.
销售员。
The salesman.
如果二手车销售员是世界上最糟糕的人，那我就是最糟糕的人中的国王。
If used car salesman is the worst person in the world, I am the king of the worst people in
世界。
the world.
司机。
The driver.
我那时
I had
有钱。
the money.
我有这个能力。
I had the means.
我当时想，今天一定要买辆车。
I was like, I'm getting a car today.
当然，还有收车的人。
And, of course, the repo man.
上了四年大学，我却选择了做这个。
Four years of college, and I chose to do this.
你学的是什么？
What'd you study?
经济形势。
Economies.
今天，我们将带来2026年的最新更新。
And today, we're gonna have an update from 2026.
汽车贷款市场已经恶化到何种地步，为什么更多的车辆被收回，这是否是经济的重大预警信号？
How dire the car loan market has become, why more repossessions are happening, and is this a big warning sign for the economy?
注意了。
Heads up.
在接下来的播客部分，你会听到大量数据。
You're gonna hear a lot of numbers in this upcoming section of the podcast.
这些数据截至2019年都是准确的，但我们将在最后更新它们，所以不用担心。
They're all accurate as of 2019, but we're gonna update those at the end, so don't worry about that.
好的。
Okay.
今天，我们将追踪一笔逾期汽车贷款的整个生命周期。
So today, we are following the life cycle of a delinquent car loan.
我们有三个角色，各自有着不同的故事，他们在现实生活中并没有直接关联，但都属于同一个基本故事的一部分——当一辆车被收回时，这个故事一再上演。
We have three characters with three stories, and they're not directly related in real life, but they are all part of this same basic story that is happening over and over when a car is repossessed.
所以请注意，这些故事彼此无关，但在接下来的三章中，我们会不断在它们之间切换。
So just know, not related stories, but we will be cutting in and out of them over the course of the next three chapters.
第一章：销售员。
Chapter one, the salesman.
在我们这个行业，PhD代表‘爸爸有个汽车经销商’。
In our industry, PhD stands for papa has a dealership.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
对你来说不也是这样吗？
Well, isn't that true for you?
从技术上讲，我确实有个PhD。
I technically do have a PhD then.
好的。
Okay.
我明白了。
I see.
我懂了。
I got it.
里克·雷彻特像他的父亲以及祖父一样，经营着位于俄亥俄州哥伦布附近的雷彻特汽车公司，该公司成立于20世纪50年代。
Rick Reichert, like his father before him and his father before him, runs Reichert Automotive, founded in the nineteen fifties near Columbus, Ohio.
作为第三代汽车销售员，里克说着那种充满老派车行行话的表达，比如‘博士’，还有‘高塔’。
And as a third generation car salesman, Rick talks in this great old timey car lot jargon, PhD, for example, but also towers.
那就是销售主管们坐的地方，他们思考着信用评分和贷款审批。
That's where the sales directors sit, thinking about credit scores and loan approvals.
客户实际上能买得起什么样的车。
What kind of car a customer will actually be able to buy.
当销售人员在展车区与客户打交道时，销售主管们却在他们的象牙塔里算着数字。
And while the salesmen are on the lot with customers, sales directors are running numbers up in their ivory towers.
他们不再高高在上、俯视所有人了。
They don't sit above everyone else anymore and look down.
是的。
Yeah.
我刚入行的时候是这样的。
They did when I started.
他们瞧不起销售人员。
They looked down on the salespeople.
他们也瞧不起顾客。
They looked down on the customers.
现在我们都平起平坐了。
Now we have everyone eye to eye.
他们的主要工作是懂得如何把这副拼图拼起来。
Their primary job is to know how to put that puzzle together.
在某种程度上，我们的汽车贷款故事就从这些高塔开始。
To some degree, our auto loan story starts here with the towers.
因为当你走进汽车经销商展厅时，销售员必须回答一个根本性的问题。
Because when you walk into a car dealership, there's a fundamental question the salesman needs to know.
你的信用记录是好还是坏？
Do you have good credit or do you have bad credit?
作为销售人员，你绝不会对着顾客说：嘿，你的信用怎么样？
And you'd never wanna, as a salesperson, look at a guest and say, hey, how's your how's your credit?
你觉得是好还是坏？
Do think it's good or bad?
因为如果这个人信用良好，他会感到被冒犯。
Because if that person has good credit, they're offended.
是的。
Yes.
他们会说：等等，什么意思？
And they're saying, oh, wait a minute.
你是在暗示我可能没有完美的信用记录吗？
Are you implying that I might not have perfect credit?
这就是信用好的人会说的话。
That's how good credit people talk.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
他们就是这么说话的。
That's how they talk.
实际上，这挺有趣的。
Actually, it's funny.
我抬起了下巴，稍微收紧了背心。
I lifted my chin up and I kinda tightened my vest up.
如果你信用良好，你不太可能在获得低利率贷款时遇到困难。
If you have good credit, odds are you won't have trouble getting a loan with a low interest rate.
你的状况很好。
You're in good shape.
你可以开着一辆很棒的车离开。
You can drive off with a great car.
如果你信用不好，对贷款方来说你就是个更高风险的选择。
If you have bad credit, you're a riskier bet to lenders.
你将不得不支付更高的利率来获得贷款，前提是有人愿意给你贷款。
You're gonna have to pay a higher interest rate for a loan, assuming someone is gonna give you a loan.
里克说，他的销售员用了一个特殊的方法，来传达一个信息：无论任何人、任何信用等级，都欢迎来他的经销商处。
And Rick says there's this special move his salesman used just to to float the idea that all people and all credit ratings are welcome at his dealership.
我们称之为‘科伦坡式’做法：当你在展厅里走着看车时，会回头过肩说：对了，我们提供 Guaranteed Credit Approval（担保信贷批准），如果你觉得可能需要的话。
We do what's called the Columbo where as you're walking on the lot to look at cars, you turn back over your shoulder and you say, and by the way, we have guaranteed credit approval if that's something you think you may need.
为什么叫‘科伦坡’？
Why is that the Columbo?
源自老电视剧《科伦坡》，多年来销售培训师们都这么叫它。
From the old TV show Columbo, that's what the sales trainers have called it for years.
就是那种回头瞥一眼，带着点眯眼、不经意的样子说：哦，对了，我刚好注意到这个。
It's that kinda like look over the shoulder and give that squinty eyed, by the way, I, you know, noticed this.
这是一种挺巧妙的方式。
It's kind of a smooth way.
他们就是把这个手法叫‘科伦坡技巧’。
They just call it the Columbo.
这个‘科伦坡技巧’是一种委婉的方式，用来告知信用不佳的客户，莱卡特仍然可以向他们出售车辆并提供购车贷款。
The Columbo is a subtle way to let customers with bad credit know that Reichardt can still sell them a car and a car loan.
莱卡特旗下还有一家次级贷款融资公司。
Reichardt also has a subprime financing company.
我们先花点时间聊聊‘次级贷款’这个术语，因为次级贷款不等同于不良贷款。
And let's just talk about the term subprime loan for a second because subprime does not mean bad loan.
这仅仅意味着贷款给信用不良的人。
It just means loan to somebody who has bad credit.
这类贷款的风险更高，利率也会更高。
It is a riskier loan, and the interest rate will be higher.
一些人认为这种做法本身就带有掠夺性——放贷方会用极差的贷款条款，迫使人们买下自己根本负担不起的车。
And some people think that this practice on its face is predatory, that lenders can push people into cars they can't afford with incredibly bad loan terms.
里克还提到，越来越多的人无法按时偿还车贷，部分原因在于存在大量问题重重的次级汽车贷款。
And Rick says part of the reason we are seeing more and more people fall behind on their car payments is that there are more and more questionable subprime auto loans.
许多贷款机构变得非常宽松。
A lot of lenders have gotten very loose.
他们一直在向那些本不该获得这些贷款条款、也不该买下这些车辆的人提供信贷、延长还款期限和放款。
They have been extending credit and extending terms and extending money to individuals that probably shouldn't have had those terms of those loans and been able to buy those vehicles.
里克说，这是不负责任的次级贷款做法。
That Rick says is the irresponsible way to be a subprime lender.
你会听到一些关于这种情况的故事。
And you'll hear stories about this.
一些公司把人们塞进昂贵又破旧的二手车里，榨取尽可能多的钱，然后收回车辆，甚至扣押工资。
Companies stuffing people into expensive crappy used cars, wringing out as much money as they can, repossessing the car, even garnishing wages.
里克说，作为次级贷款机构，也有负责任的做法，那就是考虑这位信用不佳的客户未来要买的下一辆车。
Rick says there is a responsible way to be a subprime lender, and that is to think about the next car a customer with bad credit is going to buy.
如果里克给这个人一笔糟糕的贷款，买了一辆负担不起的车，他最终不得不收回车辆，毁掉客户的信用，这对未来与这位客户的业务往来是不利的。
If Rick hands that person a lousy loan for an unaffordable car, he's gonna have to repossess that car and wreck that customer's credit, which is bad for future business with that customer.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
作为经销商，我希望他们能按时还款。
Me as a dealer, I want them to make the payment.
我希望这辆车能帮他们到达需要去的地方。
I want that car to get them where they need to go.
我希望他们的信用能恢复到我们可以帮他们获得优质贷款的程度，真正让他们重新站起来。
I want their credit reestablished to where we can get them in a prime loan and really get someone back on their feet.
当次级汽车贷款市场运行良好时，它是一个至关重要的市场，因为信用不佳且资金有限的人仍然需要汽车来生活、去上班。
The subprime auto loan market is a critically important market when it is working well because people with bad credit and without a lot of money still need a car to live their life to go to work.
如果没有次级贷款，他们就无法获得购车所需的资金。
And without subprime, they would not be able to get the money to get that car.
值得强调的是，这个国家绝大多数持有次级贷款的人并没有违约。
And it's worth underscoring that the vast majority of people in this country with subprime loans are not defaulting on those loans.
至少有92%的次级汽车贷款借款人按时还款，或者至少没有严重逾期。
At least 92% of people who got subprime auto loans are paying them off on time, or at least they're not seriously behind on payments.
我们问里克，他的公司发放的次级贷款中有多少最终导致了车辆被收回。
We asked Rick how many of the subprime loans his company issues result in repossession.
与其他贷款机构相比，这个比例很低。
And compared to other lenders, it is a low number.
我这么说听起来可能有点书呆子气，但过去两年里，这个数字一直稳定在6%。
I'm gonna sound really nerdy because I think it's exactly 6% over the past two years consistently.
也就是说，有6%的人在获得贷款和汽车后，情况并没有好转。
So that is six percent of people given a loan and then a car, and then it doesn't work out.
这对那群人来说非常糟糕。
That is very bad for that group of people.
也就是说，对他们的生活不利。
Like, not good for their life.
这对他们的信用也有负面影响。
It's bad for their credit.
有没有办法避免这种情况？
Is there a way to avoid that?
能不能把这个数字降到零？
Just get that number down to zero?
是的
Yeah.
但有一种方式，如果我们这么做，就意味着我们会拒绝贷款申请，直接告诉人们我们不会给他们贷款。
But one of the ways so if we did that, that would mean that we're basically declining and just telling people we aren't going to give them a loan.
对。
Right.
所以，只要我们还想在这个贷款领域继续运营，就总会有一些车辆被收回的情况。
So, know, as long as we wanna play in that field of lending, there's always gonna be some form of repossessions.
这根本无法避免。
There's just there's just no way around it.
但里克也说，没有绝对可靠的方法能预测谁会违约、谁不会。
But also Rick says, there's no surefire way to predict who is going to default and who isn't.
信用评分无法告诉你一个人明年是否会住院或失业。
Credit scores don't tell you if somebody is gonna be in the hospital in a year or lose their job.
当一个人走进汽车经销商时，根本不可能完美预测他未来生活中会发生什么。
There's just no perfect way to predict what's gonna happen in somebody's life when they walk into a car dealership.
在你去汽车经销商之前，我可以问个问题吗？
Can I can I ask a question before you go to the dealership?
好的。
Okay.
第二章，驾驶员。
Chapter two, the driver.
那么在那一刻，你开的是什么车？
So what car do you have in that moment?
我认为是2007年的福特探险者。
I believe it's a 2007 Ford Explorer.
好的。
Okay.
一辆不错的车。
A nice car.
是的。
Yeah.
而且它的里程数几乎达到了40万公里。
And it had almost like 400,000 miles on it.
是的。
Yeah.
开一辆有点抖动的福特探险者，你自然就想换一辆不同的车。
That's Driving a Ford Explorer that's shaking a little bit, you tend to wanna get something different.
哦，它真的有点抖动吗？
Oh, was it was it shaking a bit?
哦，对啊。
Oh, yeah.
在高速公路上开到每小时70英里的时候。
Hit that 70 miles per hour mark on these highways.
就会有点不稳了。
It gets a little sketchy.
斯蒂芬妮·沃尔德罗普住在密西西比州的一个小镇上。
Stephanie Waldrop lives in a small town in Mississippi.
她现在23岁。
She's 23 now.
一年前，她在一家快餐炸鸡店工作。
And a year ago, she was working at a fast food fried chicken restaurant.
她在那里待了很久，从收银员做起，后来升为班组长，再成为经理。
She'd been there for a while, started as a cashier, moved up to shift leader, then to manager.
所以你换了新工作，我猜薪水也更高了。
So you got this new job and I imagine it came with more pay.
是的，亲爱的。
Yes, honey.
确实如此。
It did.
所以你
So you
收入相当不错。
were making pretty good money.
那是一笔可观的收入。
It was great money.
你看，这笔钱我根本不知道该怎么花。
Look, it was money that I didn't understand what to do with.
斯蒂芬妮每个月只挣4美元，但她反而知道该怎么用。
Stephanie was making $4 a month and she kind of did understand what to do with it.
给她那辆破旧的福特探险者升级一下。
Upgrade her crappy Ford Explorer.
你有想过理想中的车吗？
Did you have a dream car in mind?
你知道的，我其实并不简单。
Well, you know, I'm a very not really simple.
我既复杂，又简单。
I'm complex, but simple at the same time.
你明白吗？
You know?
我非常喜欢SUV。
I'm very much an SUV person.
好的。
Okay.
所以我想要一辆福特Flex。
So I wanted a Ford Flex.
我们得去查一下福特Flex，这车作为梦想座驾看起来确实有点特别。
We had to look up the Ford Flex, and it is an unusual looking car to pick as a dream car.
在我看来，它看起来像灵车，我觉得这还挺酷的。
To me, it looks like a hearse, and I think that's kinda cool.
所以我就想要这辆车。
So therefore, I wanted that.
我有点哥特风格，你知道的，但有时候我也挺活泼的。
Like, I'm kinda gothic, you know, but I'm actually quite bubbly sometimes.
用‘活泼的哥特风’来形容你是最贴切的吗？
Bubbly gothic is the best way to describe you?
是的
Yeah.
是的
Yeah.
我是个活泼的哥特风女孩。
I'm a bubbly goth.
在她生日前不久，斯蒂芬妮开着她那辆摇摇晃晃的探险者，前往密西西比州的一家经销商。
So just before her birthday, Stephanie drives her shaky Explorer to a dealership in Mississippi.
那里的销售员说：坏消息。
Salesman there says, bad news.
斯蒂芬妮，我们无法为你批准福特Flex的贷款，因为你的信用记录很差。
Stephanie, we cannot get you a loan for the Ford Flex because you've got bad credit.
斯蒂芬妮记不清自己确切的信用评分了，但她说大概在600左右。
Stephanie can't remember her exact credit score, but she says ballpark was like 600.
不算好。
Not great.
但好消息是，这家经销商仍然可以为她提供一笔次级贷款，用于购买另一辆车——一辆二手福特福睿斯。
But the good news, this dealer could still get her a subprime loan for a different car, a used Ford Fusion.
你知道，那辆车是红色的。
You know, it was a it was red.
那是我最喜欢的颜色。
Like, that's my favorite color.
因为我有色盲，所以红色是我能看得最清楚的颜色。
Being color blind, that's the one color I could see very well.
所以我才想要那辆红色的车。
So that's why I wanted that red car.
我想着，车是红色的，那就买吧。
Was like, it is red, so let's go for it.
让我们稍微谈一下次级汽车贷款的条款，因为Stephanie根本不可能获得有利的贷款条件。
Now let's just talk about the terms of subprime auto loans for a second because Stephanie was not going to get a favorable loan to say the least.
这辆车是一辆大约12000美元的二手车。
This was about a $12,000 used car.
她的贷款利率将达到23%。
Her interest rate on the loan was going to be 23%.
加上费用和税费，她每月的还款额将是466美元，持续48个月，最终支付的总额几乎是这辆车标价的两倍。
So with fees and taxes, her payment was gonna be $466 per month for forty eight months, and she was gonna end up paying almost double the sticker price of the car.
有些人说这就是次级贷款具有掠夺性的地方，但其他人认为这其实就是常态。
Some people say this is why subprime is predatory, but others say this is kind of the deal.
当一个人信用不佳时，为了覆盖更高的违约风险，这就是必须付出的代价。
This is what it costs to cover a higher risk of default when someone has bad credit.
但这些就是次级汽车贷款的典型条款。
But these are the kinds of terms on subprime auto loans.
利率通常在百分之十几到二十出头，有时贷款期限甚至会被延长到七年甚至八年。
Interest rates in the high teens, low twenties, and sometimes they'll be stretched out for seven or even eight years.
因此，斯蒂芬妮看着这辆车，虽然不是她的梦想座驾，但觉得它比那辆不靠谱的福特探险者要好。
So Stephanie's looking at a car that's not her dream car and thinking it's better than the shaky Ford Explorer.
她看着这份贷款，明明知道这根本不是她理想中的贷款，但仍心想：好吧，我确实负担不起。
She's looking at a loan that is definitely not her dream loan and thinking, I mean, I can't afford it.
每月4.66美元？
$4.66 a month?
我每月赚4美元？
I make $4 a month?
好吧。
Okay.
我们干吧。
Let's do this.
在接下来的一年里，她按时还款了。
And over the next year, she made her payments.
她继续在那家快餐店工作，收入不错，但她表示，那份工作中的某些事情开始对她造成影响。
She kept working at that fast food restaurant, making great money, but she says there were things at that job that just started to take a toll on her.
我是一名跨性别女性，因此伴随而来的有很多歧视。
I am a transgendered woman, so there's a lot of discrimination that comes along with that.
这种事情发生的频率越来越高。
It just kept happening more and more frequently.
我那里有几个员工会这么叫我。
I had a couple workers there that would call me it.
然后是客人、顾客，那些进店的人，情况就更不一样了。
And then the guests, the customers, the stuff that would come into the store, it was it was something else.
我的意思是，他们会坐在那儿，直接问：你到底是什么？
I mean, they would sit there and just ask, what are you?
就是空洞地问出这个问题。
Blankly just ask that.
所以这开始让我感到压力很大。
And so it started weighing on me.
有一段时间，我心想：我其实不在乎。
For a while, was like, I don't really care.
但在我心里，它真的给我带来了巨大的负担。
But in the back of my mind, it it really weighed on me really hard.
最终，她说这一切实在太过分了。
Eventually, she says it was just too much.
她找到了一份更适合自己的新工作，然后辞掉了餐厅的工作。
She found a new job that was better for her, and she quit the restaurant.
但问题是，这份新工作的薪水只有原来的三分之一。
The problem was that this new job, it paid a third of her old salary.
她早就知道要做出巨大的让步，包括那笔高额的车贷也会成问题。
She knew there were gonna be huge trade offs, including that expensive auto loan.
如果要在心理健康和物质条件之间做选择，心理健康永远比物质重要。
When it comes to your mental health and something that's material, the mental health outweighs material any day.
所以斯蒂芬妮错过了她的第一笔还款，然后金融公司就开始打电话催款了。
So Stephanie missed her first payment, and the finance company starts calling.
他们打来电话，问我打算怎么还款，还一直给我施压，说什么‘我们要求你现在必须先还一部分钱’。
They're calling, asking what I'm gonna pay, and they'll just sit there and pressure me and, well, we need you to pay something now.
我就说，等天上掉馅饼的时候我就还你们钱。
I'm, well, when the manna from heaven falls, then I'll pay you.
你也知道，那段时间实在是太难了。
You know, it's, like, it's kinda hard right now.
三个月后，斯蒂芬妮的还款已经拖欠了两期半。
After three months, Stephanie was about two and a half payments behind.
就在这时，她的贷款方决定要收回这辆车。
That is when her lender decided they wanted the car back.
那是某个工作日的早晨。
It was the morning, a weekday.
她从新工作那天起休息，正在厨房里。
She had the day off from her new job, and she was in her kitchen.
我当时正在洗碗机旁，把碗碟拿进去，收拾完后，我们的窗户正对着车道。
I'm there at the dishwasher, bringing dishes in there, cleaning up afterwards, and our window points straight towards the driveway.
我看到一辆白色拖车正连着我那辆漂亮的红色汽车。
And I see this white tow truck hooked up to my beautiful red car.
天哪。
Oh, no.
我当时就想，得告诉我的男朋友。
And I'm like, let's tell my boyfriend.
我当时想，我遇到麻烦了。
I was like, I have a situation.
简直要崩溃了。
Like, was freaking out.
我当时想，不行。
I was like, no.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
我没落后那么多。
I'm not that far behind.
你们为什么要把我的车开走？
Why are you taking my car?
但我想，你心里肯定也想过，大概就是因为我拖欠了那些付款，才发生了这种事。
But I mean, must cross your mind that you're like, this is what happened, I guess, when I skipped those payments.
是的。
Yes.
这就像是，当我为了在生活中接手另一件事而放下这件事时，发生了这样的情况。
It's like, this is what happened when I laid this down in order to pick up another part in my life.
嘿。
Hey.
所以你100%确定这是正确的车吗？
So you're a 100% sure this is the right car?
哦，
Oh,
对。
yeah.
第三章，收车人。
Chapter three, the repo man.
当我们遇到拉里·贝克时，大约是晚上9点半。
When we met Larry Baker, it was about 09:30 at night.
他正等在拖车里，拖车停在他那艘名为《最终通知》的船前。
He was waiting for us in his tow truck, which was parked in front of his boat, which is named final notice.
船上的《最终通知》意思是，如果我来了，我就是你的最终通知。
And the final notice on the boat means if I come, I'm your final notice.
你准备好装车了吗？
You ready to load up?
是的。
Yeah.
拉里穿着一件俄亥俄州立大学的圆领运动衫。
Larry's wearing an Ohio State crewneck sweatshirt.
他戴着一只小耳环。
He's got a small hoop earring.
他抽棕榈油香烟，正在努力戒掉。
He smokes palm oil cigarettes, he's trying to quit.
至少今晚，他的收音机调到了哥伦布的经典摇滚电台。
And at least tonight, his radio was tuned to the classic rock station in Columbus.
你喜欢这首歌吗？
You like this song?
是的。
Yeah.
这是最好的。
It's the best.
是的。
Yeah.
上帝的侵蚀。
God's erosion.
我们从晚上9点半一直和拉里同行到凌晨1点半左右。
We rode along with Larry from 09:30PM to around 01:30 in the morning.
这个时间，我总是喝咖啡。
This time of night, I always get coffee.
你们喝咖啡吗？
You guys drink coffee or no?
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
好的。
Okay.
嗯，Speedway咖啡是最好的。
Well, Speedway Coffee is the best.
等等。
Wait.
真的吗？
Really?
天哪。
Oh, my god.
是的。
Yes.
Speedway咖啡。
Speedway Coffee.
这就是 repos 课程的第一课。
That is repo lesson number one.
接下来，你将在四小时的课程中，跟随一位经验丰富的 repos 行业老手学到更多内容。
Here is what else you'll learn over the course of four hours with a veteran repo guy.
第二课：在半夜进行收回车辆，因为当人们在睡觉时，冲突会更少，但这并不意味着完全没有冲突。
Lesson two, do your repossessions in the middle of the night because if people are sleeping, there will be less conflict, but that doesn't mean zero conflict.
是的。
Yeah.
那正是我今晚没带的原因。
That's I didn't bring it tonight.
所以我随身带着一把.45自动手枪。
That's why I carry a 45 automatic.
你有多少次不得不
How many times have you had to pull
拔枪？
a gun?
十五年来只有两次。
Twice in in fifteen years.
那你有没有被人用枪指着过？
And you've had a gun pulled on you?
大概四次。
About four times.
好的。
Okay.
但第三课是，大多数人都是善良的。
But lesson number three, most people are good.
记住，你是在他们人生中最糟糕的时刻与他们见面的。
And remember, you are meeting them at one of the worst moments in their lives.
你知道，当他们尊重我时，我也有一颗心。
You know, when when they treat me with respect, you know, I have a heart too.
所以曾经有几次，我放过了那些车。
So there's been times where I've left cars.
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你知道吧？
You know?
金融公司让我去提车，然后我就看了下文件。
Finance company wanted me to get a car, and, you know, I I looked at the paperwork.
他们只欠了三百多美元，我想了想，
They only owed 300 and some dollars, and I thought, you know what?
这车真的就是辆破车。
This car really is a piece of junk car.
那两个可怜的女孩已经为它付了两年的钱。
The poor girls paid for it for, you know, two years.
我就把车留下了。
I just left the car.
我告诉她去把车藏起来。
I told her to go hide it.
在拉里的职业生涯中，催收行业发生了巨大变化。
The repossession business has changed dramatically over the course of Larry's career.
他已经从事这一行十多年了，以下是他在刚入行时的做法。
He's been doing this for more than a decade, and here's how he says it worked when he started.
贷款公司会联系他，说：嘿，拉里，某某人停止还款了。
A lending company would get in touch and say, hey, Larry, so and so stopped paying.
我们需要把她的车收回来。
We need her car back.
在那些旧日里，拉里能获得的信息就这么多了。
So in those olden days, Larry wouldn't get much more information than that.
一个名字、一个地址、一个电话号码，但也许某某人搬走了。
A name, an address, a phone number, but maybe so and so moved.
也许她不接电话。
Maybe she isn't picking up her phone.
那现在怎么办？
Now what?
于是拉里不得不变成一名侦探。
Larry then had to become like a kind of detective.
他会去当时的社交媒体平台MySpace，查看对方是否发布了自拍照。
He would go on the social media of the day, Myspace, and he would see if so and so was posting pictures of herself.
照片的背景里有什么？
What's in the background of the picture?
拉里能认出来吗？
Does Larry recognize it?
他能开车过去吗？
Can he drive there?
也许车就在那里。
Maybe the car's there.
他还会查阅数据库，寻找其他地址和电话号码。
He'd also check databases to find other addresses, other phone numbers.
如果这招不管用，他就设法找到对方的家人，开始打电话。
And if that didn't work, he'd try to find so and so's family members and start making phone calls.
你得耍点小手段。
You have to do a little trickery.
而且你知道，我可能会给一个表亲打电话，说嘿。
And, you know, I might call a cousin and say, hey.
我是Rent A Center的约翰。
This is John from Rent A Center.
你的表亲某某来租了一台大屏幕电视。
Your cousin so and so came in to get a, you know, widescreen TV.
我们想把电视送给她，但需要核实三个信息。
We wanna get it delivered to her, but we need to verify three pieces of information.
现在我拿到了她的新地址。
So now I got her new address.
你有权这么做吗？
Are you allowed to do that?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我并不是在针对我正在通话的这个人。
I mean, I'm not I'm not going after the person that I'm talking to.
如果他愿意提供信息，那也就罢了
If he wants to voluntary the information, then that's on
他。
him.
好的。
Okay.
这里的关键是，那是MySpace的旧时代，当时要找到某人的车非常麻烦。
The point here is that those were the old MySpace days when it was a ton of work to track down somebody's car.
而且拉里很可能永远找不到那个谁的车，贷款方就只能自认倒霉。
And there was a decent chance that Larry would never find so and so's car and the lender would just be out of luck.
他们永远拿不回车。
They'd never get it back.
所以你可以想象，当时贷款机构对发放次级贷款要谨慎得多。
So you could imagine lenders were a little more reluctant to give out subprime loans back then.
但情况已经变了。
But things have changed.
现在要把车追回来容易多了。
It's gotten way easier to get a car back.
好的。
Alright.
那接下来呢？
So what's next?
好的。
Okay.
我来给你看看。
I'll show you.
拉里拿出一台iPad，给我们看他追收清单上的下一辆车。
Larry pulls out this iPad to show us the next car on his repossession list.
这是一辆黑色的雪佛兰Cruze。
It's a a black Chevy Cruze.
这辆车是通过次级贷款购买的。
The car was bought with a subprime loan.
买家已经停止还款了，但关键问题出在这儿。
The buyer has stopped paying, but here is the catch.
拉里说，如今如果你用次级贷款买车，贷款协议里会附带一项要求：贷方必须在你的车上装一个GPS追踪器。
Nowadays, Larry says, part of the deal when you buy a car with a subprime loan is that the lender is gonna stick a GPS tracking device onto your car.
所以现在拉里不用再去刷MySpace，也不用靠伪装打电话来套取信息了。
So now, Larry doesn't need to go on MySpace or fake a phone call.
他只需打开iPad上的一款应用，输入这辆车的GPS编号就行。
He just opens up an app on his iPad and punches in this car's GPS number.
GPS不会骗人的。
GPS don't lie.
好的。
Okay.
那我们就定位它的位置。
So we'll ping it.
哦，你是说我们已经调出这里的实时GPS定位了吗？
Oh, you'd like we we pulled up the live GPS here?
是的
Yep.
屏幕上弹出一张地图，显示一个小点在一个不错的社区里。
Up pops a map that shows a little dot in a pretty nice neighborhood.
车就在这里。
This is where the car is.
是的
Yep.
就在那儿。
That's where it's at.
如果它在车库里怎么办？
What if it's in the garage?
不在。
It's not.
这个设备的定位非常准确。
This this thing pings pretty much accurate.
看起来你的工作
Does seem like your job
现在容易多了。
is much easier now.
哦，是的。
Oh, yes.
拉里说，如今金融公司都知道，如果他们发放一笔高风险贷款，一旦借款人停止还款，收回汽车会容易得多。
Larry says finance companies now know that if they issue a risky loan, it's going to be much easier to get their car back if someone stops paying.
这确实是我们在看到更多次级汽车贷款的原因之一。
And that is definitely a part of the reason we are seeing more subprime auto loans.
当你知道可以轻松收回汽车时，发放贷款的风险就低多了。
When you know you can get the car back, it is that much less risky to issue the loan.
用这种方式找车简直太容易了。
And it is amazingly easy to find a car this way.
就在那儿。
It's right there.
这实际上就是我们在本集开头收回的那辆车。
This is in fact the car we were repossessing at the very beginning of the episode.
拉里正在车道上跑来跑去，把这辆雪佛兰克鲁兹绑到他的拖车上。
Larry is running around the driveway, hooking this Chevy Cruze up to his tow truck.
好的。
Alright.
所以现在大概是凌晨一点。
So it's like one in the morning.
我们当时站在别人的车道上。
We were standing in someone's driveway.
据我们所知，他们正在睡觉。
As far as we can tell, they're asleep.
这简直就是拉里，你难道不担心有人在中间醒来吗？
This is like legitimately Larry, do you not dread somebody waking up in the middle of this?
你不害怕吗？
Doesn't scare you?
是的。
Yes.
我害怕。
I do.
我只是跟他们说点什么，你知道的，我向他们解释。
I just tell them something, you know, I explain to them.
我只是跟他们说，对不起，你知道的。
I just tell them, you know, sorry, you know.
拉里的话渐渐消失了。
Larry trails off.
他专注于自己的工作，走进卡车，按下按钮将雪佛兰克鲁兹拖入拖车位置。
He's focused on his actual job, is getting into his truck, pressing a button that pulls the Chevy into the tow position.
没人醒来。
Nobody wakes up.
没人冲进车里。
Nobody runs into the car.
拉里踩下油门，开车离开了。
Larry hits the gas, and he drives away.
就这样？
That's it?
就这样。
That's it.
明天给我打电话。
Call me tomorrow.
拉里，这对你来说是正常的拖车流程吗？
Is this what a normal repo looks like for you, Larry?
是的。
Yep.
五分钟。
Five minutes.
五分钟。
Five minutes.
早上醒来发现车没了，那真的会非常糟糕。
It would genuinely be miserable to wake up and not have your car the next morning.
比如，那个人可能还得去上班。
Like, that person might have to go to work.
对吧？
Right?
嗯，确实如此。
Well, yeah.
我的意思是，确实如此。
I mean, it is.
我的意思是，我真的很同情一些人。
I mean, I I feel for some people.
我真的这么觉得。
I really do.
你知道，拿走别人的财产，让他们被困住，这太不像话了。
You know, taking somebody's property and, you know, making them, you know, stranded.
你想想，丢车的那人可能还带着好几个孩子，本来日子就过得够难了，这下更是雪上加霜。
You know, they could have, you know, a couple kids and you're really going through some hard times.
就说我们吧，我们之前甚至还在拖走一辆车的时候给了车主钱，因为他们连坐公交的钱都拿不出来。
I mean, we've even we've even taken a car and gave them money, you know, because they didn't have any money to get a catch a bus.
他们还得上班呢，不然只能打优步去。
They had to go to work or catch an Uber.
你懂的，我们都得挣钱付各种账单啊。
You know, we all have to pay our bills.
这可是我用来还各类账单的依靠啊。
This is how I pay my bills.
这就是我，你懂的，养家糊口的生计啊。
This is how I, you know, feed my family.
所以对我来说这就是一份正经工作。
So it's just a job.
有数百万甚至上千万的美国人正面临他们的车被收回的处境。
Millions and millions of Americans are on the verge of having their car repossessed.
有些人称这是一场次级汽车贷款危机。
Some people are calling this a subprime auto crisis.
但你看，这与2007年的次级抵押贷款危机是不同类型的危机。
But look, this is a different kind of crisis than the subprime mortgage crisis of two thousand seven.
原因有很多，但最简单的一点是，汽车债务总量要少得多。
There are lot of reasons why, but probably the simplest is that there is just way less auto debt.
抵押贷款市场无论过去还是现在，都比汽车贷款市场大得多。
The mortgage market was and still is much, much bigger than the auto loan market.
话虽如此，当你的车被收回时，汽车被收回显然就是一场危机。
That said, an auto repossession is clearly a crisis when it is your car being taken.
广告后，车辆被收回后究竟会发生什么？
After the break, what really happens after a repossession?
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
确实是。
It is.
我应该知道。
I should know.
当她的车被收回的那天，斯蒂芬妮·沃尔德罗普说她竟然认出了那个收车的人。
When the day came for her car to be repossessed, Stephanie Waldrop says she actually recognized the repo guy.
他以前在她工作的鸡肉餐厅经常来。
He used to come into her chicken restaurant when she worked there.
她说他是个好人，甚至还给了她时间清理车里的东西，拿走她心爱的雨伞。
He was a nice guy, she says, even gave her time to clean out her car, grab her beloved umbrella.
这太棒了。
It's wonderful.
这太重要了。
It's huge.
就是黑色的。
It's just black.
它简直巨大无比。
It's just massive.
像一把葬礼用的伞。
Like a funeral umbrella.
这是你哥特式的一面。
This is your gothic side.
现在是葬礼了。
Funeral now.
是的。
Yes.
这是你哥特式的一面在显露出来。
It's it's a gothic side coming out.
斯蒂芬妮买那辆车的一个目标是重建她的信用，但车辆被收回对她的信用评分造成了不良影响。
One of Stephanie's goals with that car was to build her credit back up, but the repo has not been good for her credit score.
它像坏习惯一样骤然下滑，亲爱的。
It dropped like a bad habit, honey.
当你看到你的信用评分时，你感觉怎么样？
How how did you feel when you you saw your credit score?
我有点受打击。
I was a little offset.
你知道，我被 setback了一下，但我觉得我会
You know, I was put back a little bit, but it's like, I'm going
把这件事解决。
to fix this.
而且从技术上讲，她仍然有时间来改善这种情况。
And technically, she still does have time to fix this.
情况是这样的。
Here's the situation.
Stephanie的车还没有被拍卖。
Stephanie's car has not yet been auctioned off.
在那之前，她还可以把车拿回来。
And until that happens, she can get the car back.
她需要重新开始按时付款，再加上700美元的拖车费。
She'll need to start making regular payments again, plus a new 700 repossession fee.
所以她的计划是找一份兼职工作，以筹集把车取回来所需的钱。
So her plan is to find a second job to get the money she'll need to get her car back.
当然。
Of course.
所有这些都会变得更困难，因为她现在已经没有车了。
All of that will be harder because she doesn't have a car anymore.
你现在是怎么出行的？
How are you getting around now?
亲爱的，有时候我也不确定。
Honey, sometimes I don't even know.
是的。
Yeah.
你平时怎么回家？
How are you getting home?
哦，我男朋友的妈妈。
Oh, my boyfriend's mom.
她会送我去上班。
She's gonna take me to work.
这次之后，我就要去上班了。
After this, I'm going to work.
哦，好的。
Oh, okay.
祝你顺利把车弄回来。
Well, good luck on the car.
如果你把车拿回来了，告诉我们一声。
Update us if you get the car back.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
所以，这就是我们在2019年结束时的情况。
So that is where we left things in twenty nineteen.
从那以后，发生了许多值得更新的事情。
And since then, there have been a lot of things that that are worth updating.
那么，我们先从整体的催收业务说起。
So let's start with just the repo business in general.
这段时间非常忙碌。
It's been very busy.
疫情期间，催收业务曾短暂放缓，但除此之外，车辆收回数量一直在稳步上升。
Now there was a a brief lull in collections during the pandemic, but otherwise, repossessions have been rising steadily.
当我们去采访跟踪的催收人员拉里·贝克时，他告诉我们，过去几年里，他开始看到人们想出各种新办法来阻止他拖走他们的车。
And when we went to talk to Larry Baker, the repo man that we followed, he told us that he had started to see people cook up all sorts of new ways to stop him from towing away their cars over the last couple of years.
他们知道自己已经付了款，于是就把车堵住，停到后院里。
They knew that they had paid their payments, they'd block them in, put them in the backyard.
我的意思是，停在前门旁边。
I mean, park them by the front door.
这种现象只是最近两三年才开始的。
It just started the last two or three years.
我的意思是，简直太疯狂了。
I mean, it's just been crazy.
拉里告诉我们，他姐夫在试图收回一辆车时被枪击中了腿。
Larry told us that his brother-in-law was shot in the leg trying to repossess a car.
以前，他们根本不在乎。
Before, they just didn't care.
来拿走吧。
Come get it.
我不在乎。
I don't care.
我付不起钱。
Can't pay for it.
现在是无论如何我都想留下它。
Now it's I wanna keep it no matter what.
所以，拉里说他看到的最大变化就是绝望情绪。
So desperation is the biggest change that Larry says he has seen.
现在，已经有整家公司专门追踪经济中的车辆收回数量，他们仍在统计2025年的最终数据。
Now there are whole companies that track numbers of repossessions in the economy, and they are still working on the final tally for 2025.
但他们估计，去年被收回的汽车数量将超过300万辆，这比2019年还要多。
But they estimate it will end up as more than 3,000,000 cars repoed last year, and that would be more than twenty nineteen.
这个数字也将与大衰退时期最糟糕时的水平相当。
And it would also be on par with how bad it got during the Great Recession.
与此同时，拉里·贝克本人最大的变化是，他已经退出了车辆收回行业。
Now meanwhile, Larry Baker himself, his biggest update is that he is now out of the repo business.
这段经历很不错。
It was a good run.
我们从2006年就开始干这行了。
We've been doing it since o six.
我们赚了不少钱，现在是该说再见的时候了。
We made a good lick of money, and time to say goodnight.
拉里在四月退休了。
Larry retired in April.
现在我们来看看汽车贷款的另一方——经销商的最新情况。
Now on to an update of the second side of our car loan, the dealer.
里克·赖希特也离开了他的生意。
Rick Reichert, left his business as well.
他原来的经销商现在由另一位赖希特接手了。
His old dealership is now in the hands of a different Reichert.
这个流程并没有改变。
The the process hasn't changed.
我觉得我们用来达成目标的工具稍微变了一点。
I I think the tools in which we use to get there has changed a little bit.
他的堂兄贾里德告诉我们，那种卖车的‘哥伦布式’方法，是跟里克堂兄一起消失的。
His cousin, Jared, told us that the, the Columbo method of selling a car, that left with cousin Rick.
是的。
Yeah.
Columbo销售法就是里克·赖哈特。
The Columbo method is Rick Reichardt.
里克的销售能力比我强多了。
Rick's a way better salesperson than I am.
贾里德告诉我们，他那里的车辆收回数量几乎是2019年的两倍。
Jared told us that repos on his lot are close to double what they were in 2019.
他说，主要原因在于现在的汽车价格贵多了。
And and he says a big reason for that is that cars now are simply more expensive.
因为你知道，2019年的时候，你还能用次级贷款买到一辆一万到一万五千美元的车。
Because, you know, in 2019, you could find a 10 to $15,000 car for a subprime loan.
现在呢，你看到的都是二十五万美元的车。
Now, I mean, you're looking $2,025,000 dollar vehicle.
所以我们才去找银行说，嘿。
So that's why we're reaching the banks saying, hey.
我们能延长一下贷款期限吗？
Can we stretch this loan?
你通常会做60个月的贷款。
You usually do it sixty months.
我们能做84个月的贷款吗？
Can we do it eighty four months?
更长的汽车贷款的缺点是，车主最终支付的利息会更多，总体而言，这意味着借款人更难偿还贷款，从而增加了每个人的风险。
Now the downside to a longer car loan is that the car owners will end up paying more in interest and then overall, which means a higher chance borrowers might not be able to pay for it, which means more risk for everybody.
请记住，整个趋势主要涉及次级借款人，也就是信用评分较差甚至只是普通的那些人。
And and remember, this whole trend is mostly about subprime borrowers, people with bad or even just okay credit scores.
去年秋天，有6.6%的次级借款人至少拖欠了两个月的汽车贷款。
And last fall, six point six percent of subprime borrowers had fallen at least two months behind on their auto payments.
这听起来可能不多，但这是自金融危机之前以来的最高水平。
That may sound small, but that is the highest it's been since, like, even before the financial crisis.
所有这些都属于我们多次报道过的、许多美国人面临的可负担性危机的一部分，这也引出了我们的最后一条更新——我们的购车者沃尔德罗普。
Now all of this is part of what feels like an affordability crisis for so many Americans as we've reported on a few times already, which I suppose brings us to our final update, our car buyer, Waldrop.
在我们播出原始节目后不久，人们开始联系，询问如何帮助斯蒂芬妮。
Now shortly after we aired the original episode, people started reaching out asking how they could help Stephanie.
捐款源源不断地涌来。
The donations poured in.
她得以回去把那辆特定的车买回来。
She was able to go back and buy her specific car back.
我一路开车回到了家。
I drove it all the way back home.
大概开了二十分钟。
It took about twenty minute drive.
感觉真是太好了。
Oh, it felt so great.
当我坐进我的车里时，感觉真是太好了。
It felt so great when I got behind the wheel of my car.
我们没能再在2026年找到斯蒂芬妮。
We were not able to track Stephanie down again in 2026.
所以，斯蒂芬妮，愿你依然开着你心爱的车，故障灯从不亮起，油箱始终满油？
So, Stephanie, may may you still be driving the car you love with a check engine light that never comes on and a full tank of gas?
如果你听到这段话，请给我们发一封邮件。
Give us an email if you hear this.
我们非常想知道你现在过得怎么样。
We would love to know how you're doing.
如果你喜欢刚才听到的这种故事，而且你也喜欢阅读故事，那好消息是，《Planet Money》将在四月出版一本新书。
If you like stories like the one you just heard and if you also like reading stories, well, Planet Money has a book coming out in April.
你可以在 planetmoneybook.com 找到购买《Planet Money》这本书的链接，包括从你当地的书店订购。
And, look, you can find a link to order the Planet Money book including from your local bookstore at planetmoneybook.com.
这是一份很棒的礼物。
It's a great gift.
本集最初由达里安·伍兹制作，并由布莱恩特·乌尔施塔特剪辑。
This episode was originally produced by Darian Woods and edited by Bryant Urstadt.
我们的更新内容由维托·埃马努埃尔报道，由萨姆·黄马·凯斯勒制作，由西娜·洛弗雷多负责音频工程，并由我们的执行制片人戈德马克剪辑。
Our update was reported by Vito Emanuel, produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kesler, engineered by Sina Lofredo, and it was edited by our executive producer, Goldmark.
你知道吗？
And you know what?
我们不妨向你们更新一下本集的联合记者普丽蒂·瓦拉桑的情况。
We may as well give you an update on my co reporter for this episode, Preeti Varathan.
她现在是ESPN旗下《30对30》节目的资深制作人，年仅30岁，还曾入围普利策奖决赛。
She now is a big wig making podcasts for ESPN at 30 for 30 and was a finalist for a Pulitzer Prize as well.
普丽蒂，我们为你感到无比自豪。
We are very proud of you, Preeti.
我是肯尼·马隆。
I'm Kenny Malone.
这里是NPR。
This is NPR.
感谢收听。
Thanks for listening.
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