PLURIBUS 第7集 "差距" - 完整回顾与评论

这完全就是花的世界。

It's flowers all the way down.

没错。

Exactly.

而她一直某种程度上否认这种解读。

And she has consistently sort of denied that.

就像很多人看着这些花却看到了女性形体。

Like a lot of people look at the flowers and they see the female form.

这段文字正是她刻意否认这种联想的一个例证。

And this paragraph is just one example of her sort of denying intentionally evoking that.

所以她说，如果我思考并看见你所认为的花的样子——但我并没有。

So what she said is, if I think and see what you think and see of the flower, and I don't.

我不知道，亚当。

I don't know, Adam.

可以试着

Could try to

解读一下，是不是有人在我们的即时反应后，比如在某篇评论或YouTube留言里——我记不清了——指责我们不知道乔治亚·欧姬芙以画什么闻名？

interpret Did someone in the didn't someone after our instant take, like in a review I can't remember or a YouTube comment accuse us of not knowing what Georgia O'Keeffe was famous for painting?

或者，或者说，对这种象征意义的普遍理解是什么？

Or or like what this what the common perception was of the symbolism.

对。

Right.

我不想每周都变成我们为评论辩护的环节。

I don't wanna turn this every week into us getting defensive about the comments.

不。

No.

不。

No.

我没有在防守。

I'm not getting defensive.

我是在进攻。

I'm getting offensive.

好的。

Okay.

你是说，你觉得我们有那么蠢吗？

Which is, you think we're that stupid?

她不是那个意思。

That's not what she said.

别把话强加给她。

Don't put words in her mouth.

她只是指出作为节目中的女性声音，他们可能注意到了这点。

She was simply offering that you were a female voice on the show, they may have noticed this.

我确实注意到了。

I yeah, but I did notice it.

是啊，知道。

Yeah, know.

你只是没在即时反应里提出来，因为那不是你的第一反应。

You just didn't bring it up on the instant take because it wasn't one of your instant reactions.

所以我现在想让你不舒服一下。

So I now wanna make you uncomfortable.

我们正在讨论这件事。

We're bringing it up.

你知道吗，不如我自己退出画面，你可以从这里继续。

You know, why don't I just take myself off the screen, you could carry it on from here.

等我们过了这个场景我再回来。

I'll I'll get back on when we get past this scene.

大家都明白我的意思，好吗？

Everybody understands what I'm Okay?

好的。

Alright.

我们继续看下一个场景吧。

Let's move on to the next scene.

我们稍后会回到这个话题，别担心。

We'll come back to this, don't worry.

好的

Yeah.

她是

She's

待会儿会仔细看这幅画的，这样我们就有更多讨论空间了

gonna look at this painting a lot later, so there'll be more room for discussion.

明白

Okay.

我是说，我要声明一下，我不想拿这个开玩笑，因为它确实——正如你所说——在多个方面都具有重要的象征意义

I mean, I'll say this, I don't wanna make a joke out of it because it is it is it is a significant it is symbolically significant for multiple reasons as as you discussed.

没错，正是如此

Yeah, exactly.

她决定今晚出去吃饭

She decides she's dining out tonight.

打电话给霍华德提了些要求

Calls Howard with some requests.

她想在她和海伦庆祝纪念日的那家餐厅吃饭。

She wants to eat where her and Helen had their anniversary.

甚至不告诉他们具体地点。

Doesn't even tell them where.

她说，你们知道是哪里。

She says, you know where that is.

然后她晚些时候去了那家高档餐厅，盛装出席，所有她最爱的菜都上齐了。

And then she goes to that fancy restaurant lady later, gets all dressed up, and there's all her favorite dishes.

马萨葡萄园岛，1999年。

Martha's Vineyard, 1999.

海伦的生日，2008年。

Helen's Birthday, 2008.

那些场合他们吃过的食物。

The things they ate on those occasions.

是啊。

Yeah.

你可以看到她逐渐从兴奋转为低落，甚至可以说是在自我欺骗，假装对这顿饭感兴趣。

Which she you you can see her get potentially progressively more progressively less excited and more, I don't know, trying to kind of fake it to herself that she's interested in this meal.

对我来说，关键的转折点是那两小块奶油泡芙，很明显一个是给她的，一个是给海伦的。

For me, the the big change was when you get to those two little, like, cream puff things because it's obvious that it's like one for her and one for Helen.

是啊。

Yeah.

不过我觉得有趣的是，背景里能听到狼嚎或其他动物的声音，那一刻特别明显。

I think what's funny though, there's also a specific moment you hear wolves howling in the background or you hear animals.

就在那一刻，她脸上的表情突然消失了。

Literally at that moment, the expression fades from her face.

然后她起身去钢琴旁放了一首歌。

And that's when she gets up to go put a song on the piano.

她选的是《我会活下去》的钢琴改编版。

And she chooses a rendition of I Will Survive.

纯钢琴演奏的版本带着一种忧郁的旋律。

It's played piano only, and it has a sort of melancholy tune to it.

这也正是为什么狼群对我来说几乎成了她孤独的隐喻。

And that's partly why the wolves became almost a metaphor to me for her isolation.

这提醒着周围没有人类，没有其他人存在。

It's a reminder that there's no humans around, no people around.

所以当它们探头进来时...但你说得对，当她看到这两样东西时，很明显这是为两人准备的。

And so when they peek their heads in here But I think you're right, I mean when she sees these two, it's clearly meant for two.

你可以把这堆事情都看作是不断戳破表象的裂痕，本质上在说：你可以试图找乐子，但归根结底，什么都替代不了真实的人类陪伴。

So you can pile that on to all the things that are poking a hole in the veneer and basically saying, you can try to have fun, but at the end of the day, nothing is gonna replace real human companionship.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后这个部分，目前这集里最让我揪心的——后面还会有更多——就是当她坐在桌边时，镜头开始缓慢拉远，这种手法传达得如此到位。

And then the part that, the biggest gut punch in the episode for me so far, and then there'll be more later, but when the camera slowly starts to pan out while she's sitting at the table, and it just so communicates.

再次强调她的孤独，以及这一切显得多么微不足道。

Again, her loneliness and just how frivolous this all feels.

食物确实美味，但仅此而已。

It tastes good, sure, but that's all it is.

这段经历并不愉快。

The experience is not a positive one.

现在，我不想每周都讨论这集是好是坏。

Now, I don't want this to turn into, is this a good episode or a bad episode every week?

然后不可避免地会变成：虽然节奏慢，但我们还是喜欢它。

And then inevitably it turns into, yes it was slow, but here's why we still liked it.

因为互联网上有大批观众。

Because there is a large contingent on the internet.

其实我不确定具体有多少人，但这确实是Apple TV上收视率最高的剧，这很棒。

Actually I don't know how big a contingent it is, because this is officially the most watched show on Apple TV, which is awesome.

这意味着如果文斯·吉里根在第二季后还有故事要讲，我们或许能看到续作。

And it means if Vince Gilligan has more story to tell beyond season two, perhaps we'll get to see that story.

但我试着退一步思考，这前15分钟里我欣赏的是什么。

But I was trying to sit back and just reflect on what did I enjoy about these first fifteen minutes.

因为这确实比通常聚焦单个角色的时长要长得多。

Because that is definitely a lot longer than you would typically spend with a singular character.

我们在即时讨论中提到过，这里并没有太多所谓的'信息'传达出来。

And we talked about on the instant take, there's not much quote unquote information communicated here.

卡罗尔独自一人，试图自娱自乐，但最终并不满足。

Carol is alone, trying to entertain herself, but ultimately doesn't satisfy her.

这就是我们得到的信息。

That's the information we get.

把这段情节拉长到十五六分钟有什么意义？

What's the point of stretching that out to fifteen or sixteen minutes?

我想说的是，如果你看这部剧只是为了获取信息、满足好奇心的话。

And I would say, if you're only watching the show, to gain information, satisfy your curiosity.

人类与蜂群之战下一步会如何发展？

What is the next step in the humans versus hive battle?

蜂群在实现目标方面进展如何？

How is the hive progressing in their goals?

再次强调，这段剧情你什么信息都得不到，也不会觉得享受。

Again, you gain nothing in this segment, and you're not gonna enjoy it.

你会无聊到发疯。

You're gonna be bored out of your skull.

但如果我回想并反思自己的观看体验，我在观看时真正投入的是什么？

But if I think back and reflect on my own experience with it, what am I engaging with while I'm watching?

我会说，在这十五分钟里，我感受到的情绪源于我对Carol这个角色的投入。

And I would say for these fifteen minutes, the things I'm feeling because I'm invested in the character of Carol.

当她获得微小快乐时刻时，我也感受到了幸福的瞬间。

I'm feeling moments of happiness when she gets little moments of joy.

是的，表象之下有裂痕，但我认为她确实享受了温泉时光。

Yes, there are cracks in the facade, but I think she enjoyed going to the hot spring.

我觉得她打高尔夫时是开心的。

I think she enjoyed golf.

这是我们第一次真正看到她满足的样子。

This is the first time we've really seen her content.

因为确实，当她专注阻止蜂群时——拿出白板那会儿——情绪状态要好得多。

Because yes, I think she was in a better mood when she was working on stopping the hive, got out her whiteboard.

那是个积极的举动。

That was a positive move.

但我们看到的要么是完全的悲惨——就是那种‘我放弃了，我要发呆，我在哀悼海伦的离去’。

But it's like we've seen either total misery of just I give up, I'm gonna veg out, I'm mourning the loss of Helen.

那就像是一个极端。

That's like one end.

而另一个极端是‘我要卷起袖子干点实事’。

And the other end is I'm gonna roll up my sleeves and get something done.

我们还没见过介于两者之间——仅仅是感到满足并稍微享受生活的状态。

We haven't seen the middle of just being content and enjoying life a little bit.

这就像是在进行轻浮的行为，但不是以低能量、明显自我毁灭的方式。

It's like engaging in frivolous behaviour, but not in a low energy, obviously self destructive way.

是啊。

Yeah.

不是瘫在沙发上发呆。

Not vegging on the couch.

她在外面。

She's outside.

所以我为她感到高兴。

So I'm feeling happy for her.

但同时也感到紧张，因为我开始为她担心，觉得这种状态不会持续下去，我在等待另一只鞋落下。

But there's also tension, because I'm starting to feel worried for her that I don't think this is gonna last, and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

我为人类感到担忧，因为如果她放弃了，那谁来当我们的救世主？

I'm feeling worried for humanity, because if she gives up, then who's gonna be our savior?

Menusos。

Menusos.

有些幽默，她拿走画作，自娱自乐地唱歌，看她会选择哪些不同的歌曲很有趣。

There's some humor, her taking the painting, her singing to herself to seeing what her different song choices are gonna be is fun.

而且逐渐了解她——如果拥有无限闲暇时间和几乎任何想要的资源，她会做些什么。

And just getting to know her, what is she going to do if given unlimited downtime and essentially any resources she wants.

这就是我在那十五分钟里所体验到的。

So that is what I'm experiencing in those fifteen minutes.

但我认为最重要的是，这是对剧集后续发展的铺垫。

But I think the most important thing, this is an investment in what comes later in the episode.

因为我们将见证一个重大转折——如果你不认为她在演戏（这点稍后会讨论），如果你相信眼前所见（我就相信），那么你必须相信她会去蜂巢请求它们回来。

Because we're gonna see a major shift where if you don't believe she's putting on an act, and we'll get to that, if you buy what we see, which I do, then you have to believe that she's gonna go to the hive and ask for them to come back.

她会接受佐西亚，这是她性格的重大转变。

That she's gonna accept Zosia, which is a major change in her character.

要展现她彻底放弃、陷入痛苦的状态，不能直接跳转到那个阶段。

To see her essentially give up, to see her miserable, you can't just jump to that.

我们需要花足够时间体会她的感受，甚至可能感到些许无聊。

We need to spend enough time, feel a little bit of what she's feeling, potentially feel a little bit bored.

这样才能理解她为何如此厌倦。

So we understand why she's feeling so bored.

而且我们只需要表现约20分钟（包括开头和第三幕部分）。

And hey, we only have to do it for about twenty minutes if you take the beginning, and then a little bit of the third act.

而她需要经历整整三十六天。

Has to do it for about thirty six days.

所以我并不觉得无聊。

So I wasn't bored.

这是一项投资，为了更宏大的目标。

This is an investment and something greater.

最后我想说的是，当然这一切都是主观的。

And the last thing I'll say is that, of course this is all subjective.

如果这段持续了三十分钟，对我来说会不会太长了？

If this went on for thirty minutes, would that have been too much for me?

如果只有七分钟，也许我已经从中获得足够的信息，这样剧集中还能安排其他内容。

If it was only seven minutes, maybe I would have gotten enough out of it, and then you would have had room for other stuff in the episode.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这显然更像是艺术而非科学。

It's obviously more art than science.

但至少十五分钟的时长对我来说效果很好。

But at least at fifteen minutes, it really worked for me.

是啊。

And Yeah.

我觉得值得一试。

I thought that was worth the flip.

正是这类选择让文斯·吉里根的作品独树一帜，显得与众不同。

This is the kind these are the kinds of choices that make Vince Gilligan's shows unique and feel special.

没错。

Yeah.

如果要分析特别之处，我认为这部剧和《风骚律师》《绝命毒师》最突出的特点在于，它们有时显得超现实，但又非常接地气——尤其与我观看的其他作品相比。

And I think if I try to break down, like, what's special, one of the major things that stands out to me is that this show, and Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad, sometimes they feel hyper real, but they they feel very grounded, especially when compared to other stuff I watch.

部分原因确实在于它不疾不徐的叙事节奏。

And part of it really is just taking its time.

生活中有些事情就是需要时间沉淀。

Sometimes in life, things take time.

虽然可以通过蒙太奇等手法表现时间流逝，但当你有十集篇幅时，直接观察时间的推移同样能传递这种感受。

And you can convey that through montage and other means, but when you've got 10 episodes to work with, you can also convey the passage of time by observing the passage of time.

而且我认为有时候这种方式更有效。

And I think sometimes that is more effective.

这让我想起——我们可以稍后再谈这个——但这让我想起了《风骚律师》，亚当。

This reminds me of and we we can move on from this in a second, but it reminds me of Better Call Saul, Adam.

我记得在很晚的时候才发现有一群人只看这部剧的贩毒集团剧情线。

I remember discovering very late in the game that there were a contingent of people who would watch the show only for the cartel storyline.

他们只想知道我们如何从A点到达B点。

They just wanted to know how do we get from point A to point B.

从《风骚律师》到《绝命毒师》的过渡

Point Better Call Saul to point Breaking Bad.

当然我也很喜欢那些内容，但有些观众对吉米和金姆的戏份感到无聊

And of course I enjoy all that stuff too, but there were some people that were bored by the Jimmy and Kim scenes.

如果某一集吉米和金姆的戏份太多，他们就会抱怨

They would complain if an episode was Jimmy and Kim heavy.

他们有时会快进观看

They would sometimes fast forward.

我就想看古斯和麦克那边发生了什么。

I just wanna see Gus and Mike and see what happens there.

与此同时，你们还让我们上了锯子播客。

Meanwhile, you had us on Sawcast.

我们可以花五分钟分析吉米公寓鱼缸里那条鱼的象征意义。

We could spend five minutes analyzing the symbolism of the fish in the fish tank in Jimmy's apartment.

我们多次回到那条鱼的话题。

We came back to that fish so many times.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错，而且我并没有贬低任何人，不是每部剧都适合所有人。

Yeah, so, and I don't disparage anybody, not every show is for everybody.

这完全没问题。

That's totally fine.

所以我才以‘这是我看剧时的体验’的方式呈现。

That's why I present it as here's what I experience watching it.

所以如果你讨厌这部剧但好奇为什么有人喜欢，这只是我们部分人观看体验的一扇窗口。

So if you hate it and you're curious why people like it, that's just a window into how some of us experience the show.

切换到梅努索斯。

Cut to Menusos.

或者我称之为剧集中精彩的部分，开个玩笑。

Or as I call it, the good part of the episode, just kidding.

我们看到他正在偷汽油或者

We see him siphoning gas or on

我一直想找个理由这么做。

I've his way to always wanted a reason to do that.

你有没有试过那种需要先启动虹吸的操作？我猜没有。

Have you ever done the thing where you have to start the siphoning I guess, no, you haven't.

就是你得用嘴吸然后必须吐出来

Where you suck it into your mouth and have to But spit it

我...我得说理论上汽油并不需要真的进到你嘴里

I I I will say, in theory, it's it's not actually necessary for the gasoline to enter your mouth.

我觉得这很难避免。

I think it's just hard to prevent.

我很惊讶蜂巢没把这事告诉马努索斯。

I'm surprised the hive doesn't mention that to Manusos.

但还有一件事，马努索斯。

But one more thing, Manusos.

这只是个忠告，听不听由你。

This is just take it or leave it, some advice.

那种汽油不是无铅的。

That gasoline is not unleaded.

所以他正在路上

So he's on his way

一边练习英语一边偷汽油。

to siphon some gas while practicing English.

那只猫是灰色的。

The cat is gray.

所以我们看到他打包了一些磁带，当时他正为这次长途旅行准备应急包，现在他正用那些磁带练习英语。

So we saw him pack some tapes when he was taking his go bag for this long journey, and now he's practicing English off those tapes.

蜂群中的一员把卡车停在他旁边，主动提出捎他一程。

One of the hive stops the truck by a truck by him and offers a lift.

有人以步行速度开车，从驾驶座探出头来试图给你建议，这想法本身就让人非常烦躁，不是吗？

There's something very annoying about the idea of someone driving at walking speed, talking to you out of the driver's seat, like, trying to give you advice?

即便他不是蜂群思维的一部分。

Even if he's not part of the hive mind.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像，我只是想走路。

It's like, I'm trying to walk.

很明显我不想跟你说话。

I obviously don't wanna talk to you.

没错。

Yeah.

你能不能别烦我？

Would you leave me alone?

也别再叫我喝水了。

And stop telling me to drink water.

对，有个蜂群成员开着卡车经过米努索斯，停下来提供水、搭便车或任何帮助。

Yeah, the guy so a guy a member of the hive is in a truck driving by Minusos, and stops to offer some water, offer a lift, offer help of any kind.

如果你需要什么，就朝天空挥手。

If you need anything, just wave at the sky.

米努索斯无视他，同时一只手始终按在砍刀上以防万一。

Minusos ignores him, while keeping one hand on his machete in case he needs to use it.

看着他那超级欢快的态度和米努索斯完全面无表情的对比实在太滑稽了。

And it's just hilarious to watch the the contrast between his super cheery attitude and Manousos just totally stone faced.

不只是无视他，而是刻意让对方明白自己在无视他。

Not just ignoring him, but actively attempting to make it clear that he's ignoring him.

是啊。

Yeah.

最后那家伙只是笑了笑，挥挥手就开车离开了。

And then eventually the guy just kinda smiles, waves, and drives off.

米努索斯从一辆他找到的卡车里抽了些汽油，在挡风玻璃上留下了钱。

Minusos siphons some gas from a truck he finds, leaves money on the windshield.

他绝不会偷任何东西。

He will not steal anything.

当他需要拿什么东西时，总会留下一些钱。

When he needs to take something, he'll leave some money there.

我们在第一集认识他时就知道了这一点，当时他打开了所有顾客的储物柜，并留下纸条说：向管理层致歉，你们会得到补偿等等。

We learned this about him in the first episode where we met him, when he opened up all of his customers storage units, and he left a note saying, apologies to management, you will be compensated, etcetera.

继续练习英语。

Continues to practice English.

但是别

But don't

我能说吗？我有点怀疑这故事是否真的发生在南美或中美洲，因为画面没有泛黄滤镜？

Can I say, I have some doubts over whether this is really happening in South America or Central America, because the screen doesn't isn't tinted yellow?

是啊。

Yeah.

他们确实留下了...你这么说挺有意思的。

They've they've left behind it's funny you say that.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我觉得他们剩下的黄色颜料不够调色了。

I think they didn't have enough yellow left over for the tint.

他正在练习

He's practicing

英语。

English.

对。

Yeah.

他正在练习英语。

He's practicing English.

这只狗是黄色的。

The dog is yellow.

是啊。

Yeah.

他开一辆黄色的车。

He drives a yellow car.

他脖子上系着一条黄色印花手帕。

He has a yellow bandana that he wears around his neck.

这个节目有很浓的黄色主题，对吧？

The show has a very yellow theme, right?

所有海报都是吗？

All the posters?

对。

Yeah.

他用来学英语的那盘磁带也是黄色的。

The tape that he's learning English from is yellow.

卡罗尔在前几集里穿着那件黄色夹克。

Carol wears that yellow jacket in the first couple of episodes.

没错。

Yep.

黄色是我们联想到笑脸的颜色。

Yellow is a color we associate with smiley faces.

确实。

True.

这挺有意思的，想想看，人们是真的在微笑，还是像REM乐队那首《闪亮的快乐人》那样带着反讽意味？REM还唱过《世界末日》和《我感觉良好》之类的歌。

And it's interesting to think about, you know, are people actually smiling, or is this a case of shiny happy people, where it's done more ironically, which is a song by REM, who also did the song It's the End of the World, and You Know It, and I Feel Fine, or whatever the name was.

就是这样。

So there you go.

听着，多年来我一直在关注《绝命毒师》《风骚律师》和现在的《普莱瑞布斯》中所有关于颜色的细节。

Look, for years, I've been paying attention to the all the colours, all the references to colour in Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, and now Pluribus.

但我始终无法完全参透其中的确切含义。

And I can never quite figure out exactly what the meaning is.

我不认为颜色的每次使用背后都有精确的含义，它更像是写作中一种有趣的模式，发人深省，其意义会随情境而变化。

I don't know that there is like a precise meaning behind any use of color so much as it's an interesting pattern to use for writing and it's thought provoking and the meaning can kind of fluctuate from situation to situation.

无论如何，虽然我无法在每种情况下都完全理解其含义，但我确实非常享受这种设计。

Either way, I don't know quite what to make of it in every case, but I really do enjoy it.

别担心，我很快就会做一个视频论文来探讨这个。

Don't worry, I'll do a video essay on it coming soon.

真的吗？

Really?

不，大概不会。

No, probably not.

这太...是啊。

It's too Yeah.

Menusos回到他的车里。

Menusos gets back to his car.

车子不会立刻启动，他的车总是这样。

Won't start right away, as is the way with his car.

我们看到，然后他确实发动了车子，后视镜上挂着一个迷你祈祷书或迷你祈祷卡，上面描绘着圣母玛利亚怀抱婴儿耶稣。

We see, and then he does get it started, we see hanging on his rearview mirror sort of a mini prayer book or a mini prayer card depicting the Virgin Mary holding infant Jesus.

是啊。

Yeah.

那东西有个专门名称。

There's a term for that thing.

我忘记叫什么了。

I forgot what it is.

不错。

Nice.

聊天室里的谁来帮帮我们。

Someone in the chat help us out.

显然，你其实不应该把它挂在后视镜之类的地方。

And apparently, you're not really meant to hang it like from a mirror or something.

我想具体来说你应该把它像项链一样佩戴。

I I think specifically you're supposed to like wear it like a necklace or something.

好的。

Okay.

显然，我对那方面知之甚少。

Obviously, know very little about that.

所以我从中得出的唯一结论就是这显示了他的虔诚。

So all I took from it is this is an indication that he's devout.

我们会在剧集中看到更多迹象。

We'll see more indications in the episode.

我认为这在一定程度上解释了他坚定的原则——为何即使可能给自己带来伤害，或面前明明有更轻松的路可选，他也绝不偏离这些原则。

And I think it goes some way in explaining his hard principles why he will not deviate from them, even when it means potentially bringing harm to himself or taking the much harder path when there's an easier one before him.

这是另一个我非常钦佩的特质。

Which is another thing I really admire.

文斯·吉里根对破车真是情有独钟。

Vince Gilligan has such a thing for crappy cars.

看着卡罗尔开着劳斯莱斯到处转，再对比这辆我不愿提及名字的车，真是挺有趣的。

And it's it's funny to see Carroll driving around with the Rolls Royce, and then the contrast between that and this car whose name I will not say because

是啊。

Yeah.

我也面临同样的困境。

I had the same dilemma.

我从没听说过这车，但它显然挺破的。

I never heard of it, but it's clearly kind of a a crappy car.

至少这辆特定的车是这样，因为它老是抛锚。

At least this specific car is because it keeps breaking down.

他们会...不过蜂巢稍后会给出提示。

They'll make the but The hive will make an indication later.

我们知道这辆车对你很重要。

We know the car is important to you.

没错。

Yeah.

听起来它对你有些情感价值。

So it sounds like it's got some sentimental value.

你刚刚提出了一个很好的观点。

And you just brought up a good point.

你把这与卡罗尔驾驶的劳斯莱斯相比较。

You compare this to the Rolls Royce Carroll is driving.

有很多

There's a lot

那不是念珠，

of It's not a rosary,

对，就是挂在他后视镜上的那个东西。

just for Yeah, the the thing that he has hanging off his rearview mirror.

就物质条件而言，他和卡罗尔显然处于非常不同的位置。

Terms of just having access to material things, him and Carol are obviously in very different positions.

随着剧情的推进，这种差距会变得更加极端。

And that gets more extreme as the episode goes on.

我们稍后会讨论这一点。

We'll talk about that.

嗯，他并不知道。

Well, he doesn't know.

我猜他开始意识到可以随心所欲地提出要求，但未必会从字面上这么看待——在情感层面，向蜂巢提出请求就像与魔鬼做交易。

Guess he's starting to learn he can he can ask for whatever he wants, but that would and I don't know that he necessarily sees it as this way in a literal sense, but on an emotional level, to make a request of the hive would feel like making a deal with the devil.

哦对，我确信他是这么认为的。

Oh yeah, I'm certain that he sees it that way.

我见过有些人解读得更极端，认为他字面意义上相信那些是恶魔，但我不倾向这种看法。

I mean I've seen some people who take it a lot further and see it as very literal that he believes they're demons, I wouldn't take it there.

至少在隐喻层面上，是的，我认为他会视此为罪恶，或至少觉得接受他们的馈赠违背了自己的原则。

But at least on a metaphorical level, yeah, I think he would see it as sinful, or at minimum, would see it as wrong and against his principles to take anything from them.

他很快就非常明确地表达了这点。

Mean, says that very explicitly shortly.

引出《吉尔莫女孩》宇宙里我最爱的蒙太奇之一。

Cue one of my favorite montages ever from the Gillette verse.

这是我在跑步机上重看的那段。

This is the one I rewatched on the treadmill.

马努索斯驾车前行并继续练习英语时，你会看到一些美丽的景色。

You get some beautiful vistas as Manusos drives and continues to practice English.

但现在当他练习这些短语时，它们基本上与蒙太奇的音乐处于同一层次。

But now as he practices these phrases, they are basically on the same level as the music of the montage.

你并不是在剧情内听到这些声音。

You're not hearing it diegetically.

它几乎成为了音乐的一部分。

It kinda becomes part of the music almost.

星期一就是那一天。

Monday is the day.

星期二就是明天。

Tuesday is tomorrow.

他驾车经过一些热情打招呼的路人。

He drives by some blurbs who are all cheerfully saying hello.

他无视了他们。

He ignores them.

你看到他查看地图，在上面做标记来记录位置，这将成为我们印第安纳·琼斯式的‘我们在地图上的哪里’的场景。

You see him checking the map, drawing on it to keep track of where he is, and that will become our Indiana Jones style where are we on the map thing.

你看到他加了更多汽油，留下了更多钱。

You see him taking more gas, leaving more money.

然后是我最喜欢的他练习英语的部分，你会看到壮丽的山脉和水域，听到他说：世界很大。

And then one of my favorite parts of his English practice, you get a great shot of the mountains and the water, and you hear him say, the world is big.

大，世界，世界很大。

Big, the world, the world is big.

这一切如何融合在一起，因为他正在学习一门新语言，显然说话时缺乏自信。

And something about how it all comes together, because he's learning a new language, he's obviously not speaking with a lot of confidence.

他说话时几乎带着一种疑问的语气。

He's speaking with an almost questioning tone.

我说得对吗？

Am I saying this right?

当背景是忧郁的音乐，而他说出那些话时——世界很大，这给人一种探索的感觉。

When you have the melancholy music behind it, and he's saying those words, the world is big, it has this feeling of discovery.

就像我正在发现这个世界的广阔无垠。

Like I am discovering the vastness of the world.

他并不畏惧，但显然带着一丝忧伤。

And he's not afraid of it, but there's obviously a touch of sadness to it.

这更像是卡罗尔的烟花场景，然后她就独自站在那里。

And it's more of it's similar to Carol's fireworks, and then she's just there by herself.

而现在是他独自踏上旅程。

And now it's him journeying out there.

广袤的世界，只有他孤身一人。

Huge world, and he's by himself.

他实际上是在试图拯救

And he's literally trying to It's save

巨大而如今实际上空无一物。

huge and it's now effectively empty.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且

And

你能感受到这一切要归功于音乐、画面，以及他英语练习中那种有趣的超现实冲突感。

you feel all that thanks to the music, the visual, and just the interesting surreal clashing of his English practice.

那些古怪的短语配上音乐。

Those just bizarre phrases over the music.

你知道，这很有趣。

You know, it's interesting.

看到蜂群在世界各地以不同形式出现真的很酷。

It's it's cool to see how the hive manifests in different parts of the world.

在这里，因为我们对这个环境不太熟悉，但对他来说这可能并不稀奇

So here, because this is an environment we're less familiar with, To him, this is probably not unusual to see

离家更近的地方。

Closer to home.

是啊。

Yeah.

而对我们来说，在某些方面，这看起来就像一个繁忙的市中心。

Whereas for us, in some ways, it just looks like a busy town center.

但当你仔细观察时，会发现每个人都在微笑。

But then you look at it and it's like, well, still everyone's smiling.

他们都在互相配合。

They're all cooperating.

而且他们没有任何理由需要彼此交谈。

And they have no reason to speak to each other or anything.

是啊。

Yeah.

看到这种形态的群体活动很有意思。

It's interesting seeing like this flavor of the hive in this Yeah.

然后

And then

不，你先说。

no, go ahead.

不，你继续说吧。

No, keep going.

这有点偏离主题了。

This is a little different topic.

我只是想说，我们已经很久没看到蜂群独自活动的场景了。

I was just gonna say it's been a while since we've gotten a glimpse of the hive on their own somewhere.

能有个提醒这是全球现象总是件好事。

It's always nice to get a reminder that this is a global phenomenon.

这部剧的格局感觉比《风骚律师》或《绝命毒师》大得多，后者总是局限在固定地点。

And the show feels so much bigger than Better Call Saul or Breaking Bad, where they were always set.

记得《绝命毒师》里有一集开头是在德国吗？

Like, remember in Breaking Bad where there was one episode that opens in Germany?

《风骚律师》好像也这么做过，就很震撼。

Think Better Call Saul did that too, it's just like, woah.

这感觉太0太诡异了。

It's so bizarre.

这部剧虽然不算频繁，但出现的次数足够让你始终感受到这是一个全球性的故事，不会

And this show's kinda done it not super frequently, but often enough that it it it you never lose the sense that this is global, Not

不仅如此，在其中一幕里，当米努索斯停车查看地图时，他是失焦的，处于背景中。

only that, but in one of these scenes when you see Minusos just pulling over to look at his map, he's out of focus and in the background.

而聚焦在前景的是这些看似古老的地画，像是某种岩石雕刻。

And in focus in the front are these what appear to be ancient geoglyphs, like some kind of rock carvings.

要知道，它们看起来就像你想象中的洞穴壁画那样。

You know, they look similar to what you'd expect when you think of a cave painting.

知道吗，就像拿着弓箭的简笔画小人。

Know, it's like stick figures with bows and arrows.

你会看到一条蛇和一些他们正在猎捕的动物。

You see a snake and some kind of animals that they're hunting.

我是说，据我所知，这些都是真实存在的。

I mean, for all I know, are actual real ones.

据我了解，在世界这个地区，类似的事情相当常见。

My understanding is that in this part of the world, things like this are pretty commonplace.

这挺有意思的，因为当你想到这是人类历史的一个古老部分时，不知怎的，整个人类历史都导向了这一时刻——我猜这可能是人类历史上最重要的事件，就是几乎每个人的意识都被外星人接管了。

And it's kind of interesting because when you think about the like, this is an ancient part of human history, and somehow all of human history has led to this, which is, I mean, probably the most significant event in human history, which is when pretty much every individual mind got taken over by an alien.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

而米诺索斯即将要化身为我们在这图像中所见的模样。

And Minusos is about to have to embody what we see in these images.

他将要成为一名猎人。

He's about to become a hunter.

我们会看到他捕鱼。

We're gonna see him fishing.

他将几乎没有任何现代便利设施可用。

He's gonna have very little in the way of modern conveniences with him.

现在

Now the

这让我想起一部糟糕的电影，叫什么来着？

It kind of reminds me of an oh, what was that terrible movie?

《普罗米修斯》。

Prometheus.

你知道的，他们在古代洞穴里发现了外星起源的星图或指示物？

You know, where they they find a lot of the they find like the ancient star map or indicators of their extraterrestrial origins inside an ancient cave?

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得这种超级古老的东西与科幻元素的结合很有意思。

I find that the mix of the super, super old, like stuff that potentially predates language with the modern science fiction stuff.

这种组合太酷了。

That's such a cool combination.

哦，这也是我对那部电影情有独钟的部分原因。

Oh, It's part of why I have a soft spot for that movie.

这部电影确实有很多糟糕的地方，但它用我最喜欢的一些创意，通过雷德利·斯科特的视觉专长进行了呈现。

So many things that are atrocious about it, but it takes some of my favorite ideas and filters them through Ridley Scott's, like, visual expertise.

所以对我来说它仍有可取之处。

So there's still something of value in it to me.

但故事本身确实存在很多问题。

But the story itself has so many issues.

是啊。

Yeah.

我想稍微回到他学英语时说的这些短语。

So I was just gonna go back for a second to all these phrases he's saying as he's learning English.

比如‘女孩从捕鼠器里救出老鼠’这个例子。

The girl saves the mouse from the trap, as an example.

我看到很多人会试图精确解读这些词语。

And I see, again, a lot a lot of people will try to decipher the words precisely.

这里的符号代表什么？

What are the symbols here?

女孩救了老鼠。

The girl saves the mouse.

这是卡罗尔拯救世界之类的隐喻吗？

Is that Carol saving the world, etcetera?

就我个人而言，我并不认为这里有具体的寓意。

To me personally, I I don't really see specific allegory here.

更多只是营造氛围的一部分。

It's more just part of painting a mood.

当他说今天是星期二，星期一是明天时，让我感受到时间的流逝。

When he says things like today is Tuesday, Monday is tomorrow, it makes me feel the passage of time.

当他说今天我不去图书馆时。

When he says today, I am not going to the library.

明天会去图书馆。

Tomorrow, yes, I will go to the library.

类似地，后来又问这是谁的外套？

Similarly later, says whose coat is it?

这件外套属于谁？

To whom does the coat belong?

这部分内容只是讲述了现代生活中去图书馆这类日常行为，在这个世界已失去意义，正如当前世界的现状。

Part of that just says these are modern things of going to the library, or just things you do in day to day life that no longer have meaning in this world, the way the world is currently.

所以这几乎像是一种哀悼。

So it's almost like mourning.

就像是对已消失世界的悲伤，仅仅通过回顾我们曾经做过的琐事。

It's like grief for the world that's disappeared, just by looking at the minor things that we used to do.

除了文字传达的情绪外，还有行动本身。

And then just on top of what the words communicate in terms of mood, there's also just action.

你看到米纳索斯与自然元素抗争——他在雨中，与口渴抗争, 与孤独时屈服诱惑抗争。

You see Minusos battling the elements, he's in the rain, he's battling thirst, battling the temptation to give in when he's so lonely and all these people are saying hello, offering him anything he could need.

所以看着他面无表情地保持坚强很精彩。

So it's great to watch him just stone faced, staying strong.

除此之外，你还看到他积极主动的一面——学习新语言，这绝非易事。

But on top of that, you also see this proactive thing, him learning a new language, which is not an easy thing to do.

回到你开场时提到的播客内容

So just in terms of going back to what you opened the podcast

我是说，躺在舒适床上用多邻国学习已经够难了

I mean, with it's hard enough to like do Duolingo when you're comfortable in bed.

是啊

Yeah.

而他此刻在暴雨中学习，还要接雨水以防渴死

And now he's doing it in a rainstorm, where he's collecting rain so he doesn't die of thirst.

我太爱马努索斯了，这正是我想回归的精神

I love Manusos, this is what I'm trying to get back to.

他学习新语言这件事，更证明了他极致的专注力，我太欣赏这一点了

And just him learning a new language is one more thing you can throw on the pile for how focused he is, and I love it.

对了，我们最爱文斯·吉里根蒙太奇里的那些流程细节

Oh, and one thing we love in a Vince Gilligan montage is process.

这正是我们在这里看到的

And that's what we're seeing here.

这些短语的重复，每次他都说得更自信、更准确。

The repetition of these phrases, they get more confident and accurate each time.

我们正在聆听他学习这门语言的过程。

We're listening to him learn the language.

这让人感到满足。

And it's satisfying.

所以我喜欢这个蒙太奇的理由有太多太多了。

So there's so many reasons why I love this montage.

不仅如此，你还会发现，这不仅仅是关于前进和开车的蒙太奇。

Not just that, but you also see, okay, it's not just a montage of forward progression and driving.

更像是，哦对，这就是他收集水的方式。

It's like, oh yeah, this is how he collects water.

你懂吧？

You know?

没错，你正在了解这一切运作机制的答案。

Yeah, you're getting answers to the mechanics of all this.

我们还会看到他如何捕鱼。

How does he We're do gonna see him catching fish as well.

但我们看到他某晚在教堂里睡觉，顺便说一句，所以...而且我又看到一些理论说，他认为那些是恶魔，相信它们无法跨越教堂的门槛。

But we see him sleep one night in a church, by the way, so that's And another again, I saw theories where it's like, well, he thinks they're demons and he believes they can't cross the threshold of the church.

我觉得这有点牵强。

I'm like, it goes a little far.

我是这么理解的——我可能是你最不该请教这个问题的人，我也第一个承认这点。

Here's the way I took it, which is, I'm the last person you would come to for expertise on this subject and I will be the first person to admit it.

但我确实认为，虽然我不太了解这个，但很多教堂都有这样的政策：如果你需要住处，你是受欢迎的。

But I do think, I don't know too much about this, but I think there are a lot of churches where like, part of their policies that, like, if you need a place to stay, like, you can you can you're welcome.

他冲进前门，进入圣所。

He bursts through the front doors, sanctuary.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我对教堂的所有了解都来自《辛普森一家》。

Everything I know about churches, I learned from The Simpsons.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以，如果这里有座教堂，周围可能也有房屋之类的。

So like, if there's a church here, there's probably houses and stuff too.

但他选择留在教堂里，我认为他是觉得这样更符合道德。

But he chooses to stay in the church because I think he sees that as more ethical.

是的，这个观点很好。

Yeah, that's a good point.

最初，我一直

Initially, I always

我也是这么理解的。

thought That's how I saw it.

我以为这能给他带来安慰，但我觉得你是对的。

I thought it gives him comfort, but I think you're right.

我是说，我们看过他所有的行为，他就是在尽量避免从别人那里拿东西。

I mean, we've seen everything else he does, it's him trying to avoid taking from somebody.

所以我觉得你在这点上说得对。

So I think you're right about that.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为他...我觉得他只是有着非常坚定的价值观，而且我相信他觉得教堂会默许他这么做，而那些房子的主人肯定不会愿意让陌生人闯入。

I think he has I think he just has very strong values, and I think he I think he believes that the church would be okay with him doing this, whereas the owners of those houses wouldn't necessarily want a stranger breaking in.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得你说得完全正确。

I think you're a 100% right.

很棒的观察。

Great observation.

你觉得在这个新世界里，宗教组织会变成什么样？

What do think has become of religious organizations in this new world?

我是说，我只能想象它们在一夜之间消失了。

I mean, I have to imagine they just overnight disappeared.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

我是说，我觉得所有东西都是一夜之间消失的。

I mean, I think everything disappeared overnight.

任何对物理上维持地球运转非必需的东西，我想都已经不复存在了。

Anything that is not essential to physically maintaining the earth, I think is gone.

那为什么那家伙还穿着骑行短裤？

Then why was that dude still wearing bike shorts?

你觉得他还会去骑车吗？

Like, you think he's still going cycling?

我是说，为了锻炼？

I mean, for exercise?

何必浪费时间换衣服呢？

Why bother wasting a second changing clothes?

我 我觉得人们 嗯，

I I think people Well,

到底多久需要换一次衣服才符合卫生标准？

How long how frequently do you really need to change clothes for hygiene?

我们每天都

We do it every

不过很脏。

dirty, though.

而且他们要做很多体力活。

And they're doing a lot of physical work.

好吧，这是我的理解。

Well, that's my interpretation.

他们在处理人类遗骸吗？

They're dealing with human remains?

嗯，我认为他们只会在绝对必要时才换衣服，因为没有卡罗尔在场，也没有老派人，他们要尽可能高效地行动。

Well, think they're only gonna change their clothing when absolutely necessary, because when there's no Carol around and no old schoolers, they are trying to be as efficiently as humanly possible.

他们只会在确实有必要的那一刻换衣服，绝不会提前一秒。

They will only change clothes at the second it makes sense, and not a second sooner.

编剧室里讨论这些肯定很有意思。

Must be fun to figure all this out in the writers' Room.

争论那家伙要多久才会脱下他的骑行短裤。

Debating how long would it be before that guy takes his bike shorts off.

是啊。

Yeah.

那下面到底什么情况？

What's going on under there?

看这座教堂多酷啊。

Look how cool this church is.

没错。

Yeah.

我是说，整个蒙太奇里有很多精彩的镜头。

I mean, there's so many great shots in this whole montage.

视觉上看起来非常刺激。

It's just visually so stimulating to look at.

我们看到米努索斯夜间驾车穿越城市查看地图，看到他钓鱼，然后他接近达连隘口。

We see Minusos driving through the city, checking the map at night, see him fishing, and he approaches the Darien Gap.

他看到

He sees

等等，等一下。

Wait, wait.

我想先关注一下他作为英语练习重复的那些短语。

I want to focus for a second on the phrase, you know, some of the phrases he is repeating as part of his English Please.

练习。

Practice.

这些外套是谁的？

To whom do the coats belong?

外套是他们的。

The coats belong to them.

确实感觉这部剧像是在提醒我们想起蜂群。

It does feel like the show is like trying to remind us of the hive.

就像，哦对，他们拿走了一切。

It's like, oh yeah, they took everything.

确实如此。

That's true.

当他们使用'他们'这样的词时，在这种语境下首先会让你想到的就是蜂群。

When they use words like them, the first thing it's gonna make you think of in this context is the hive.

没错。

Right.

因为这是个模糊的'他们'。

Because this is an ambiguous them.

它并没有特指某个具体对象。

There's no one specific that it's referring to.

所以我们的思维自然会填补这个空白，联想到蜂群。

So of course our mind is gonna fill in the blank and just be reminded of the hive.

他们把所有的外套都拿走了。

They're taking all the coats.

甚至只是看着他整理自己，比如剪头发。

That even just seeing him groom himself, like cutting his hair.

是啊。

Yeah.

光是看整个过程，我就很喜欢。

It just seeing the whole process, I love it.

他正开车穿过城市。

He's driving through the city.

没错。

Yeah.

就像我说的，他正在接近那个缺口，基本上是一片你必须穿越的陆地，如果你想从南美洲陆路前往北美洲的话。

So like I said, he's approaching the gap, which is basically a stretch of land that you have to cross to get from South America to North America if you're gonna go by land.

但是没有路。

But there's no roads.

这里有很多危险的事物。

There's a lot of dangerous things.

当他接近时，他看到地上散落着许多人的物品。

And as he approaches it, he sees a lot of people's belongings on the ground.

我就直接读出来，当他站在那里时，一些普拉布人从荒野中走出来，用普拉布语对他说。

And I'll just read off, so as he's standing there, some of the plurbs come out of the wilderness and they speak Plurbs to in it.

梅努索斯，请不要这样做。

Menusos, please don't do this.

达连地区太危险了。

The Darien is too dangerous.

到巴拿马还有100多公里，而且没有标记的路径。

It's over 100 kilometers to Panama, and there are no marked trails.

本周的天气预报不适合徒步旅行。

The forecast for this week is not conducive to hiking.

气温将超过38度，湿度高达98%。

It's going to be over 38 degrees with 98% humidity.

我最喜欢的部分是，虽然我们不想老生常谈强调补水，但水源确实难以获取。

And my favorite part, we don't mean to harp on hydration, but the water is not going to be easy to come by.

你看这个软件Look

You see the software Look

他们全都像是从木头里直接冒出来的一样。

how they all they all just like come out literally come out of the woodwork.

是啊。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢文斯·吉里根和团队借鉴传统恐怖意象的手法。

I love how Vince Gilligan and the team here are borrowing from sort of traditional horror imagery.

就像那种诡异的场景：一群人平静地溜达到视野里。

Like the creepy thing of a bunch of people just calmly stroll out into view.

你根本不知道他们在那儿。

You didn't know they were there.

但当然，这里有个绝妙的转折。

But of course, there's such a twist on it.

你从未见过这种处理方式。

You've never seen it done this way.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们不是要老调重弹强调水分补充。

We don't mean to harp on hydration.

干净的饮用水并不容易获取。

Clean water's not easy to come by.

热带森林里栖息着种类繁多的蛇类、蜘蛛和昆虫，其中很多都带有剧毒。

The tropical forest hosts a remarkable diversity of snakes, spiders, and insects, and many are quite venomous.

他们说话的方式根本不在乎要表达什么重点。

The way they speak, it doesn't matter, like, what the point of what they're saying is.

他们听起来依然像个导游。

They still they sound like a tour guide.

其实我倒觉得这次他们说话确实带着点那种感觉

Well, I would actually say this time, there was a touch of they sound

哦，他们听起来像是在为他担心。

Oh, they sound they sound afraid for him.

不过你说得对。

But you are right, though.

他们总是以如此有条理的方式呈现这么多事实。

They are always presenting so many facts in such an organized manner.

那些刺可以长到20厘米长。

It really The spines can grow up to 20 centimeters long.

是啊。

Yeah.

这就是他们接下来要讲的内容。

That's what they get into next.

那里有chunga棕榈树，我很喜欢这个，这是另一个

That there are the chunga palms, which I love this is another

那些是契诃夫的chunga棕榈树。

Those are Chekhov's chunga palms.

没错。

Exactly.

这就是制造紧张感的方式。

This is how you build tension.

他们实际上在列举他将面临的所有危险。

They're actually listing all the dangers he's gonna face.

所以当他开始徒步时，你就在等待看到——至少对我来说，大多数人甚至从未听说过这些棕榈树。

So when he starts his hike, you're waiting to actually see most of us, at least speaking for me personally, never heard of one of these palms.

我当时就在等待，然后它突然就出现在他面前。

So I was waiting, and then it pops up right in his face.

讲到如果被其中一棵刺伤，加上那些细菌，可能会引发致命感染。

Talks about how if you get caught on one of those with all the bacteria, you could have a fatal infection.

看看周围，这些物品都是前人无力继续携带而留下的。

Look around you, all these items were left by people who could carry them no farther.

这些就是全部了。那些东西很酷。

And that's all the That was stuff cool.