第一季第二集：海盗女郎

我们确实这么做了，对吧？

We did, right?

对，对。

Yeah, yeah.

只是为了确保一切都没问题。

Just to make sure everything was kosher.

但你知道，那些混蛋作家嘛，你懂的。

But that's, you know, the asshole writers, you know.

好的，在这个场景中，空军一号降落，然后那位女士用27种不同的语言说了14句话。

I'm gonna have a Okay, so in this scene, Air Force One lands and then the lady says 14 different things in 27 different languages.

原始版本有这么长，远不止简单的一句'你好，谢谢光临'。

The original version of it was this long it was a lot longer than just Hello, thank you for coming.

是一段话。

Was a paragraph.

我想我可能

Think I might have

问过你，我当时说，文斯，你确定吗？

asked you, I was like, Vince, are you sure?

我想我可能问过你，你

I think I might have asked you, are

真的确定要我说这些话吗？

you sure you really want me to say this?

甚至要用那么多语言说？

Even in that many languages?

你当时说，是的，我确定。

You're like, Yes, I do.

嗯，你做得很好。

Well, you did great.

是啊。

Yeah.

大家都这么说，我又知道什么呢？

By all accounts, what what do I know?

我不会说那些语言，但大家都说你做得很棒。

I don't speak any of those languages, but by all accounts, you did great.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我觉得这真的非常有趣。

I I think it was it was so much fun.

这真的是我

It was really I

我认为这展现了这些人之间真实的紧密联系，而不是像Zosia那样只是戴上那些联合国同传耳机，然后问题就解决了。

think it sells the authenticity of how interconnected all these people are now, as opposed to if if Zosia had just had, like, those UN earwigs and was like, here, put those on and, you know, and then just that solves it.

我觉得她能毫不费力地与所有人交流，甚至不需要眨眼，这太厉害了。

I think the fact that flawlessly, she can communicate with everybody without even blinking.

我觉得这太酷了。

I think that's so cool.

真是

Such a

确实如此，而且如果我能掌握世界上所有语言，那将是多么不可思议的事情。

It is, and it's also so fascinating if I had access to all the languages in the world, what an incredible thing to have.

实际上我有会说七种语言的朋友，而我只会两种。

I have friends actually that speak seven languages, I only speak two.

你只会两种语言，真是谦虚

You only speak two as a humble

的自夸。

brag.

只有两个。

Only two.

但我有朋友会说七种语言。

But I have friends that speak seven languages.

显然一旦你学会了西班牙语，如果你懂西班牙语，像意大利语、法语就会变得很容易。

Apparently once you learn Spanish, if you know Spanish, like Italian, French come very easy.

而且对我来说，我觉得俄语和捷克语会更容易学，如果我要学这些语言的话。

And, you know, for me, I think Russian and obviously Czech comes easier if I was gonna learn those languages.

不过，是的，七种语言，我有个朋友能流利地说七种语言。

But, yeah, seven languages, and, you know, and I have a friend who's fluent in seven languages.

太不可思议了。

It's incredible.

那太神奇了。

That's amazing.

是啊。

Yeah.

我真的很想聊聊卡罗尔住的那个死胡同。

I really wanna talk about the cul de sac where Carol lives.

我第一次看到它是在办公室里。

My my introduction to seeing it was in the office.

我们有那种类似建筑图纸的社区规划图，然后还有建设过程中的照片。

We have sort of, like, like, architectural, like, drawing of the of the neighborhood and then, you know, photographs as it started going up.

谈谈这个构思吧，因为我知道社区需要满足某些故事情节的需求。

Talk about the conception because, I mean, it it I I know that there were certain story needs that the neighborhood needed to have.

好的，那就谈谈这个死胡同社区的概念，以及整个街区的规划过程。

And, yeah, just talk about the conception of the the cul de sac, the the neighborhood, and sort of what went into the planning of that.

因为这是一个完全人造的社区。

Because it's a completely constructed neighborhood.

从零开始建造的。

From scratch.

我打算把这个话题转给丹尼斯。

I'm just gonna I'm gonna throw this over to Denise.

简单来说，我们需要一个完全可控的社区来拍摄卡罗尔的生活场景，因为第二集之后会有很多大场面——真正的社区居民会担心房产贬值和夜间休息，他们不会乐意让我们在真实社区取景拍摄。

I'm simply gonna say that we needed a neighborhood that Carol lived in that we would have complete control over because we knew there's big stuff coming after many big things coming after episode two, that a real neighborhood owned by real folks who worry about their property values and wanna sleep at night would not be happy about us, you know, they wouldn't be happy about us shooting in in a in a real neighborhood.

所以我们不得不从零开始搭建这个社区。

So we had to construct this this neighborhood from scratch.

至于丹尼斯和她的团队，我想让她亲自介绍，因为他们完成得太出色了。

And Denise and her crew, I wanna let her talk about it here because they just crushed it.

他们的成果简直令人惊叹。

Is it's absolutely amazing what they did.

我最喜欢的照片是文斯早期拿着便利贴的那张，上面画着个小死胡同的草图。

It was my my favorite photo is an early photo of Vince, and he's got a post it with a little cul de sac drawn on it.

他指着草图说：'这就是我们需要的'。

And he's pointing, he's like, this is what we need.

所以

So

就像巨石阵那样的标志性时刻。

It's like the Stonehenge moment.

它是，它是

It is, it's

脊椎贴扎。

spinal taping.

它是，

It is,

像一张小餐巾。

like a little napkin.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后我溜达开去吃了个热狗。

And then I wandered off and had a hot dog.

然后大人们就去工作了，就像他们处理空军一号和去西班牙、加那利群岛那些事一样。

And then the adults went to work just like they did with Air Force One and going to Spain and the Canary Islands and all of it.

但他非常明确。

But he's very clear.

这就是与文斯共事的乐趣所在。

And that's what the joy of working with Vince is.

他对自己想要什么有着非常清晰的愿景。

He's very clear on his vision and what he wants.

而且他对细节一丝不苟，这点我很喜欢，因为这样就能

And he pays complete attention to detail, which I love because then it just,

确实，你知道这是最好的事情。

True, you know it's the best thing.

是的，它提升了一切的水准。

Yeah, it raises the level of everything.

你绝不会想说‘这样就够好了’。

You'd never want to say that's good enough.

每当我的团队成员有人说‘哦，这样就够好了’。

When any one of my crew says, Oh, that's good enough.

我就会说‘不，还不够’。

I'm like, No, it's not.

我们会看到的。

We're going to see it.

我们可能会看到。

We might see it.

但我们的场地经理克里斯蒂安找到了一块地。

But Christian, our location manager found some land.

有好几个备选地点，因为我们希望卡罗尔的房子能拥有景观视野。

There were several places because one of the things we wanted was we wanted Carol's house to have a view.

最后我们在西阿尔伯克基找到了理想位置。

So we found the right spot out in I think it's West Albuquerque.

是西边吗？

Is that West?

西北？

Northwest?

阿尔伯克基的某个未公开地点，对吧。

Undisclosed location in Albuquerque, Right.

新的

New

我是说，那里原本没有路。

I mean, no road went to it.

那只是我们发现可以租赁的一块地。

It was just some land that we found that we could lease.

于是我们先找到这块地，然后开始规划整个社区的布局。

So, we found the land first and then we started plotting out how the neighborhood would be.

我们设计了六栋房子，卡萝尔的房子位于死胡同的尽头。

We designed six houses and Carol's being at the end of the cul de sac.

我们还得确定道路的走向。

And we, you know, had to figure out which way the road went.

必须确保道路转弯时能让人感觉社区还在延伸，而不是突然断头。

We had to make sure that when the road curves that you feel like it goes on to more neighborhood, it just isn't ending right there.

此外，拍摄过程中还涉及大量后勤工作。

We also, there was a lot of logistics involved with production.

我们必须确保排水系统。

We had to make sure Drainage.

排水系统。

Drainage.

排水问题非常关键。

Drainage was huge.

直到雨季来临几栋房子漏水时，我们才发现部分问题，但最终都修复好了。

And we didn't find out some of those problems till monsoon season hit and a couple of houses leaked, but we were able to fix all of that.

于是，我们开始设计每一栋房子。

So, started, you know, we designed each house.

我希望它能成为一个定制化的社区。

I wanted it to be like a custom neighborhood.

所以这不是那种千篇一律的郊区住宅，而是更偏向定制化的社区。

So, it wasn't one of these cookie cutter suburbs, but it was more of a custom neighborhood.

我们与阿尔伯克基市政府开了很多会，因为市政府

We had a lot of meetings with the city of Albuquerque because City

非常配合。

was great.

是的。

Yes.

他们必须理解这一点：没错，我们正在建造这些房屋，而且我们是动真格的——除了管道和电路部分。

They had to kind of wrap their head around, yes, we're building these homes and we're kind of doing it for real except for plumbing and electric.

但我们浇筑了地基。

But we poured slabs.

所有设施都必须防水防风且安全。

Everything has to be weatherproof and safe.

防风。

Windproof.

这点很重要。

That's a big thing.

防风。

Windproof.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我们了解到卡罗尔的房子是两层的。

And then we knew that Carol's is two story.

我们在舞台上搭建了第二层，但你可以实地走到她的阳台上，那里视野绝佳。

We built the second story on stage, but you can go out on her balcony on location and it's a perfect view.

我们对每栋房子进行了大量高低调整，以确保视野不受其他房屋遮挡。

And we did a lot of grading of each house up and down to where we could get that view so the other houses weren't hiding it.

但我也并不想让卡罗尔的房子在死胡同尽头显得过于庞大。

But I also didn't want Carol's house to be this giant thing at the end of the cul de sac.

它需要与环境融为一体。

It had to kind of blend in.

所以沿着街道往下走，房屋会逐渐变小变矮。

So as we went down the street, the houses got a little smaller, a little lower.

所以

So

我之前不知道这一点。

I did not know that.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，这种视觉设计可以说是天衣无缝的。

It I mean, that that illusion is, I would say, is invisible.

没错。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我们确实无法判断这一点。

We we definitely can't tell that.

我不知道。

I didn't know.

是的。

Yes.

我是说，我们每天去现场都会发现：不行，4号房屋需要抬高。

Mean, we went out there every day and it's like, no, House Number 4 needs to come up.

5号房屋需要降低。

House Number 5 needs to go down.

卡罗尔家的必须先抬高，然后我们才能开始浇筑楼板。

Carol's needs to come up, you know, before we could start pouring slabs.

之后我们浇筑了楼板。

And then we poured our slabs.

后来我们走上阳台时才发现：哦，我们好像能看到所有房屋的屋顶。

And then when we went on the balcony, we realized, oh, I think we're going to see the roofs of everything.

所以每栋房屋的屋顶都得安装天窗、蒸发冷却器、空调，或者湿式通风设备。

So, we had to do each roof with skylights or swamp cooler or air conditioning or, know, a wet vehicle.

通风口之类的，没错。

Vents and all that Yes.

就连小小的呼吸通风口或下水道系统也要考虑。

Even the little breather vents or the sewer system.

所有那些东西。

All that stuff.

哇，看来我们确实讨论过要在某个时候用视觉效果来做这些，这曾是我们待办事项的一部分。

Wow, seems We definitely talked about doing those with visual effects at some point and that was kind of on our to do list.

然后，不知道怎么回事，第一天我们去了那里，上了屋顶，我说，天啊，她已经把屋顶都完成了。

And then, don't know, first day we went out there and we went up top and I said, Oh my God, she finished the roofs.

没做

Didn't do

什么。

anything.

我觉得实景拍摄总是更好。

I think it's just always better to do practical.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

一旦我们上去了，就停不下来了。

And once we got up there, we just kept going.

然后我说，好吧，我们就把屋顶搞定吧。

And I said, Okay, let's just do the roofs.

好的，我们... 然后还有人讨论说不做房子的背面或后院。

Okay, let's And then there was also talk about not doing the backs of the houses or the backyards.

你知道，他们当时说，嗯，我们会每集做一点。

You know, they were like, Well, we'll do it per episode.

但我觉得，不行，那样行不通。

But it's like, No, that's not gonna work.

第二集，直升机，运送挖掘机。

Episode two, helicopter, delivering an excavator.

我想我们会看到下面的情况。

I think we're gonna see down.

是的，我读了《无人机拍摄》。

Yes, I read Drone Shot.

好的，我们现在得把所有的后院都处理完。

Okay, we gotta do all the backyards now.

因此我们为每个后院都制定了景观规划。

And so we had a landscape plan for each backyard.

我当时在和我们的园艺师洛阿交谈，他是个天才。

And I was talking to our greensman, Loa, is a genius.

洛阿就是那个说'行'的人。

Loa is the Yes.

最棒的

Best of

我们之前有位园艺师，由于罢工的缘故，我们只能工作到某个阶段。

And we had an earlier Greensman who, because of the strikes, we were allowed to work to a certain point.

一旦我们决定，好吧，我们要开始了，我们要建造这些房子。

And once we decided, okay, we're going to start, we're going to build these houses.

但你知道，如果罢工持续不断，我们最终将不得不停工。

But at some point, you know, if the strike goes on and on, we're going to have to shut down.

但我们不能就这么丢下一切不管。

But we can't just leave everything.

所以，我们必须在离开前承诺完成某些事项。

So, we had to commit to doing certain things before we could walk away.

没错。

Right.

以确保安全。

To make them safe.

由于我们产生的灰尘和其他物质，我们不得不频繁与环保署合作。

We had to work with the EPA a lot because of the dust and everything we were generating.

我们估计有350吨骨料。

So, think we had 350 tons of aggregate.

我是说，我认识现存的每一块石头和石板。

I mean, I I know every rock and flagstone in in existence.

有那么多吗？

Is it that much?

哇。

Wow.

确实如此。

It was.

我简直不敢相信。

And I couldn't believe it.

前几天我们还在计算到底有多少。

And so we were calculating the other day how how much, you know, was that?

根据卡车运输量等数据，我们确认确实有那么多，因为需要覆盖整个区域。

And we figured with the truckloads and stuff, it was it was that much because we had to cover all of that area.

在我们进去之前，我们休息了大约一个月才回来。

And, you know, before we went in and then before we we broke for about a month and came back.

于是我们把一切都安排妥当，铺好了所有的石头。

And so, we buttoned everything up, laid all the rock.

但我们提前买好了所有的树。

But we purchased all the trees ahead of time.

圣达菲树苗场帮我们保管着这些树。

And the Santa Fe Tree Farm kept them for us.

然后当我们在一月份回来时——这不是种树的最佳时节，或者说十二月份也不是——我们在一二月开始种植。

And so, then when we came back in January, which is not the optimal time to plant trees, or December, and then we started planting in January, February.

所以我们大约有30棵树，因为那里原本一棵树都没有。

So we had like 30 trees because there were no trees out there.

那里什么都没有。

There's nothing out there.

只有些低矮的灌木丛。

It was just scrubby.

很多地方都是火山岩，我们不得不在某些区域深挖下去，你

A lot of it was lava rock that we had to really dig down into certain areas, you

知道吗？

know?

卓西娅知道。

Zosia knows.

开个玩笑。

Joking that.

土壤。

Soil.

看，他们本该问我的。

See, they should have asked me.

没错。

That's right.

我本可以告诉他们的。

I would have told them.

是丹尼尔·戴对吧。

Is it the Daniel Day Yeah.

刘易斯

Lewis

确实如此。

That's right.

我可以

I could

自己动手的。

have done it myself.

是啊，我听过那个故事，就像丹尼尔·戴·刘易斯那种风格的事。

Yeah, well, I heard that story, like a Daniel Day Lewis kind of thing.

你提前几个月就去了，带着挖掘机，

You went out months earlier, you're with the excavator,

你建了个

you built a

整个村庄都是从零开始建造的。

lot of the village from scratch.

投入了惊人的努力，让这里看起来完全像一个真实的社区。

What an incredible amount of effort that went into what looks absolutely like a real neighborhood.

我想住在卡罗尔的房子里

I want to live in Carol's house

想得要命。

so badly.

我也是。

Me too.

这就是好处和坏处。

That's the good part and the bad part.

好处是你不想让它看起来像个布景。

The good part is you don't want it to look like a set.

坏处是这活儿吃力不讨好，人们只会说'哦，这是你们建的？'

Bad part is it's thankless because it's like, oh, you built that?

人们意识不到这需要多少工作和规划。

People don't realize how much work and planning it took.

而且工作量非常大。

And it was a lot.

我们还在外景地搭建了卡罗尔的许多室内场景。

And we also built a lot of Carol's interior out there as well.

所以舞台上有她的室内布景，外景地也有大量室内场景，这样我们透过窗户就能看到社区里发生的一切。

So we have her interior on stage, and then we have a lot of her interior out so we can look right out the windows and see what's going on in the neighborhood.

我记得当时的情况，因为有些事情是根据需要逐步完成的。

I remember as that was happening, because some of that was happening gradually as things were needed.

好的，我们需要这个厨房。

Okay, we need this kitchen.

我们来搞定厨房吧。

Let's get the kitchen done.

还有，我们需要这个走廊。

And okay, we need this hallway.

我们来搞定走廊吧。

Let's get the hallway.

对。

Yeah.

然后，是的，我知道在一些日常工作中，有时候你一开始只能看一个方向，不能看另一个方向。

Then, yeah, I know in some of the dailies, sometimes you could look one direction, but not the other at first.

没错。

Right.

是啊。

Yeah.

这集里卡罗尔打电话时的厨房，你在剧里看到的就是当时完成的。

The kitchen in this episode when Carol's on the phone, like, what you see in the show is what was done.

就是这样。

Like, that was it.

对。

Right.

我们无法转身查看那栋房子。

We could not turn around and look into the house.

就像，视频村就在那里。

Like, Video Village right there.

哦，我只想简短补充一句给听众们。

Oh, I just want to say a quick thing to add to folks listening.

这是个令人惊叹的漫威场景。

This is an amazing Marvel.

别试图去参观它。

Do not try to go visit it.

它位于私人领地上。

It is on private property.

有真正的警卫24小时看守。

It is guarded by actual guards twenty four hours a day.

他们很友善，但不会让你进去参观。

They're very nice, but they're not gonna let you come visit.

没错。

That's right.

也别派无人机飞过去，因为它位于双鹰机场的Delta级空域范围内，就在阿尔伯克基西区那边。

And do not send a drone up over it because it is within the class delta airspace of Double Eagle Airport over there on the West Side Of Albuquerque.

如果你派无人机过去，会被联邦航空管理局抓个正着。

And if you send a drone up, you will get busted by the FAA.

很多人不了解无人机的这些规定，他们就随心所欲地操作无人机。

A lot of people don't know that about drones and they just get, they kind of go willy nilly with the drones.

但确实，正如你所说，它们特别像是在空中的。

But yeah, that's, they're very especially like you said, in airspace.

施工期间偶尔会有人开车过来，他们就是四处看看。

We would have people drive up sometimes while we're under construction, and they, you know, just kind of looking around.

然后他们会问，这些房子中有没有要出售的？

And then they would say like, well, one of these houses going up for sale?

其实并没有。

Like, they're not.

办公室里我们也遇到过同样的问题。

We have the same question in the office.

是啊。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

而且每个人都选好了自己想住的那栋。

And everyone's picked the one they want to live in.

对啊。

Yeah.

它们太美了，丹尼斯。

They're so beautiful, Denise.

你是真心欣赏这些的。

You truly appreciate it.

这都是因为你。

It's you.

然后

And then

还有一件事，就是

another thing, just

所以人们知道，那里有最壮观的日落。

so people know, they had the most amazing sunsets.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且，那个地区的日落也是最为壮丽的。

Like, most magnificent sunsets as well in that area.

简直美不胜收。

It was just so beautiful.

黛安，在《绝命毒师》和《风骚律师》中，你的大部分工作都是在办公室里完成的。

Diane, on Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, a lot more of your work was done here in the office.

但在这部剧中，你花了更多时间在片场和外景地，这带来了巨大的好处。

But on this show, you've spent way more time on set, on locations, which has had huge benefits.

你想谈谈这次经历或遇到的困难吗，以及你在这类剧中承担的新挑战？

Do you want to talk at all about the experience or the difficulties, the new challenges that you kind of have taken on with the show like this?

是的，我是说，我从未从最初的最初就参与过某件事。

Yeah, I mean, I've never been involved with something from the very, very beginning.

所以那确实是个挑战，但我想也是一种快乐。

So that was a real challenge and I guess a joy.

是最早读到剧本的人之一，这要归功于——确实如此。

Was one of the first people to read the script, thanks That's to true.

我虽然没有参与提案环节，但我们很早就开始讨论如何规划、预算和安排时间表等事宜，甚至在项目售出前就开始了这些对话。

And I wasn't in the pitches, but we certainly were having conversations about how to plan and how to budget and how we should schedule it and all that stuff like very early on before we even sold it.

所以我之前从未有过机会这么早就参与到一个项目中。

So I just had never really had the opportunity to be involved in something that early.

我认为这是一部后期制作比重很大的剧集，而我在这方面的背景确实帮助我们找到了实现目标的方法。

And I think this is such a post heavy show and my background on that side of things absolutely helped us kind of figure out how we were gonna accomplish this.

后来能去片场工作，我大概待了六个月左右。

And then just being able to go to set, I mean, spent probably six months.

比如我会连续去几周再回来，我参加了所有会议，能够全面掌握所有情况，因为我是唯一会往返两地的人。

Like, I would go for a few weeks at a time and then come back, and I was in all the meetings and absolutely being able to have that kind of, like, overhead view of everything because I was the only one that was kinda coming back here.

因为文斯在拍摄期间不会过多参与后期，他需要集中精力，尤其是这部剧是新项目。

Because Vince doesn't do a ton of posts, like, while we're shooting because he needs to be focusing on especially this show was new.

我们当时在摸索要讲述什么故事，其他角色该如何表现，整体效果该怎样呈现，我们边拍边搭建场景，同时还要做出所有这些重要创作决策，这些都需要他投入大量时间。

We were trying to figure out what story we were telling and how these others would need to behave and how everything needed to look and we were building the houses as we were going and we were deciding all of these, making all these very important creative decisions that he had to really put his time on.

所以我部分工作就是来回协调，确保后期制作中所有环节都能衔接上。

So like part of it was me just kind of going back and forth and making sure that it's all adding up in post.

确保我们拍摄的内容能整合成文斯想要呈现的剧集。

That what we have, what we're shooting is coming together and that it's actually making a show that is what Vince intended to make.

因此我觉得在片场的时间对于理解文斯的愿景、协助整合素材和完成剧集制作具有不可估量的价值。

And so I I I found the time spent on set to be absolutely invaluable for just understanding Vince's vision and helping put the pieces together and and make the show.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为片场提出的问题可能会引发其他变动，明白吗？

Because questions would be asked on set that would change other things, know?

感觉有太多事情要考虑了。

Like there's so many things.

你读剧本时可能有一种理解，但实际拍摄时会冒出各种新问题，必须和摄影指导、美术设计以及服装部门（就是戏服）一起解决。

You read the script and you kind of think one thing, but then in the execution it raises different questions you have to kind of work that out with the DP and the production designer and the wardrobe, you know, the costumes.

其他角色很大程度上是通过着装风格、行为举止以及他们如何游刃有余地让世人理解来塑造的。

Like so much of the others is kind of how they dress and how they move through the world and how good they are at everything trying to make people understand.

这是个非常难把握的概念。

It's a very difficult concept.

看成品时会觉得非常合理。

Makes a lot of sense when you watch it.

但如果你在读剧本并试图构建场景，在很长一段时间里你的问题会远多于答案。

But if you're reading it and you're trying to build it, you have so many more questions than you have answers for so long.

希望我透露的这些制作内幕不算太多——但我认为这集正因为拍摄周期长才获益良多。

I mean I hope I'm not opening up too much of like how the sausage is made but I think that this episode benefited greatly from how long it took to shoot it.

确实。

Sure.

因为我们有阿尔伯克基部分的大部分粗剪版本可以参考，这帮助我们完善了西班牙拍摄的内容。

Because we had a cut of most of it, know the Albuquerque portion of it that we could look at that would help us inform the stuff that we shot in Spain.

而且卡洛琳娜有更多时间来理解安德这个角色

And Carolina had many more months to understand who And the character

身体更多部分

the body more of

那个 以及

the And

在西班牙带领这群守旧派时要有那种自信，他们不了解情况，我是说卡罗尔的问题比谁都多，对吧？

have that confidence when you have to be in Spain leading this group of old schoolers who have not, know, I mean Carol has more questions than anybody, right?

就像大多数其他守旧派似乎很满足于继续过他们的生活，假装一切都没变。

Like most of these other old schoolers seem to be very content to just keep living their lives and pretending like nothing has changed.

但你知道佐西娅是领导者，她算是我们通往新世界的向导，她必须完全自信并理解发生了什么变化，并能向其他人、观众和角色解释清楚。

But you know Zosia is the leader of, she's kind of our guide to the new world and she has to have that complete confidence and understanding of what has changed and be able to explain it to everyone else, the audience and the characters.

我认为这之所以能有这么大改进，是因为我们有这么多时间真正回答这些问题，而且这是如此团队合作的结果，而且所有

And I think that was so much improved by the fact that we had all this time to really answer those questions and and have it's such a team effort, And all of

我也是，我想补充说，我也很高兴事情这样发展，因为这非常真实，我感觉这个角色活在我身体里，她更深入我的身体，让我能更自然地表现那些时刻，更自由，用不同的方式诠释。

I so, I mean, just to add to that, I'm so glad that it went that way as well because it's very true, I felt the character lived in my body, she lived more in my body and I was able to have those moments more, be freer, and just explain it in a different way.

但是，还有文斯融合镜头的方式，以及他介绍角色的手法。

But, and it's also, it's how Vince blends his shots, and it's how he introduces the characters.

我是说，我们讨论了很多关于佐西娅第一次来到房子的这个场景，文斯用了一种对他来说很不寻常的远距离拍摄方式，对吧，这太棒了。

I mean, we talked a lot about this moment when Zosia comes to the house for the first time, And Vince shot it in a way that's very unusual for him with the distance, right, between It's so great.

比如，我们直到快结束时才看到佐西娅的特写镜头。

Like, we don't see Zosia in a close-up until Towards the end.

几乎是在互动快结束时她递水的时候。

Almost the end of the interaction when she offers the water.

你在剪辑室非常沮丧，因为你说，我简直不敢相信我是这样拍的。

And you were very frustrated in the editing room, because you're like, I can't believe I shot it this way.

我想离得更近些。

I wanna be closer.

我为什么要这么做？

Why did I do this?

我为什么要这么做？

Why did I do this?

我喜欢它是因为它能让你如此坚定地站在卡罗尔的视角。

And I love it because it keeps you so firmly in Carol's point of view.

是的。

Yes.

而且，你知道，她正与世界保持距离。

And, you know, she's keeping the world at arm's length.

而这个美丽如天使般的人站在那里提供帮助。

And and this, like, beautiful, angelic person is, like, standing there offering help.

她并不想要，而且充满怀疑。

And she doesn't want it, and she's so distrustful.

你能感受到这一切，以及场景是如何拍摄和调度的。是的。

And, like, you feel all of that and how the scene is shot and blocked Yes.

还有剪辑。

And edited.

能够更频繁地去阿尔伯克基，见到人们，与他们共处一室开会，告诉大家：‘这行得通’。

And, you know, being able to go to Albuquerque much more and see people and be in the room with people and have meetings and and tell people, It's working.

我向你保证，这行得通。

I promise you, it's working.

因为每个人都在想‘我觉得行得通，但我不确定’。

Because everyone's like, I think it's working, but I don't know.

能够告诉大家：‘我发誓，一切都在整合，看起来很好，会很棒’，然后我们都能继续前进，不断推动自己。是的，

And to be able to tell people, I swear, it's coming together, everything looks good, it's gonna be great, and then we all were able to kind of keep moving and keep pushing, and pushing ourselves, Yeah,

黛安在艺术部门对我们帮助巨大。

it was a huge help for us, the art department to have Diane there.

我是说，哦

I mean, Oh

是啊，是啊。

yeah, yeah.

你懂吗？

You know?

整个团队的协作简直，简直太神奇了。

The collaboration of this entire crew is just, it's just magical.

确实如此。

It really is.

每个人，每个人都依赖着其他人，但每个人也都知道他们可以依赖其他人，这样说能明白吗？

And everybody, everybody leans on everybody else, but everybody also knows they can lean on everybody else, like, if that makes sense.

就像，我们都在这里互相支持，比如丹妮丝会来找我说，我能做到这一步，但需要你接手完成剩下的部分。

Like, we're all here to, like, hold each other up, and, like, whatever, Denise will come to me and be like, I can get this far, but I need you to take it the rest of the way.

我就会说，交给我吧。

And it's like, I got it.

我们一直在沟通。

We always are talking.

我们总是，你知道的，有一种

We're always, you know There's a

高度的信任。

lot of trust.

倡导。

Advocating.

高度信任。

A lot of trust.

我是说，加入这个创意大家庭是第一次，看到大家如何协作，真的非常了不起。

I mean, coming into this creative family, it's my first time, and just watching how everybody works together, It's really magnificent.

就像，彼此间充满了信任。

Like, there's so much trust.

当文斯询问时，我有幸旁听了一场戏，听他如何与摄影师马特沟通。

When Vince would ask, I would I was lucky enough to just listen in on one of the scenes and listen to Vince talk to Matt, who's a camera operator.

他们为捕捉某个镜头、某个瞬间而进行的默契配合。

And just the dance that they do to get a certain shot, to get a certain moment.

这一切都显得如此...如此特别。

And it's just just all of it is just so We so special.

如果没有与这支团队的合作历史，我们这档节目早就彻底失败了。

We would have failed catastrophically at this show if we did not have this history with this crew.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得你说得对。

I think you're right.

如果我们彼此陌生地开始合作，我觉得肯定行不通。

If we just came in not knowing each other, I don't think it would've worked.

根本不可能成功。

Would not have happened.

我是说，你需要很多信任。

I mean, you just You need a lot of trust.

这完全是信任和理解。

It's just utter trust and understanding.

甚至你和雷之间的互动，看着你们的关系和彼此间的微妙细节，以及捕捉到她表演中的某些瞬间，真是让人着迷。

And even you with Ray, just watching the way you guys your relationship and the nuances that you guys have with each other and to get certain moments in in her performance was so fascinating to watch.

确实如此，是的。

It was really, Yeah.

你

You

我同意。

I agree.

那确实是另一个非常棒的部分，能够在片场亲眼目睹这一切，看到你如何与演员们互动，整个团队如何找到节奏并不断调整，那真是一种享受。

That was another really that was an amazing part of being able to be on set too, was to see that, to see how you interact with the actors and how the whole crew, how everybody just finds it and fine tunes it, and that was a real joy.

你知道，我认为最精彩的时刻之一——我们差不多可以就此结束讨论了——就是那个场景，那是最后拍摄的几个场景之一，那场盛大的午餐戏，所有人聚在一起共进午餐。

You know, what I do think is one of the finest moments, and we'll kinda close out on this, is the the scene it's one of the last scenes that was shot, the the big, lunch scene where everybody, gets together and has a lunch.

另一个播客节目必须谈谈迪亚巴特先生，那位绝对出色的桑巴舞者。

And another podcast will have to talk about mister Diabate, the absolutely wonderful samba.

桑巴。

Samba.

那个场景，就是那种经典时刻。

That scene, it's one of those things.

这个场景复杂得毫不费力，你根本想象不到它背后有多么惊人的复杂性。

It's a scene that is effortlessly complex, and it seems you would never know how incredibly complicated that scene is.

部分原因在于你并非刻板，而是不愿重复镜头，这为场景营造出更为电影化的氛围。

And in part because of your not rigid, but the desire to not repeat shots, it creates this far more cinematic feeling in the scenes.

像这样一场戏，包含大量角色对话、多重视角，最终又回归到卡罗尔的视角

A scene like that, which is a very long dialogue scene with many characters, many points of view, all of it ultimately coming back to Carol's point of view

而且关键，非常关键，比如向观众传达的信息是

And critical, critical, like, information for the audience being

解释性的。

explained.

是的。

Yes.

然后戏剧性场面展开，我们了解到卡罗尔能够通过情绪引发其他人的反应。

And and then, you know, and then drama happening where where we learn that, you know, Carol has this ability to, through her emotions, cause a reaction in in the the others.

我是说，这该怎么着手呢？

I mean, how do you even start?

要特别感谢这集的剪辑师斯基普。

And a huge shout out to Skip, the editor of this episode.

斯基普太厉害了。

Skip killed it.

没错。

Yeah.

这段镜头真的可以开高级剪辑课程了——素材量、镜头选择、结构设计和构思方式都值得学习。

I mean, you could really teach a you could teach an advanced editing class with that sequence because of the just the amount of material, the shot choices, and how you constructed it and how you conceived it.

当你开始处理这样的场景时，究竟该从何入手？

How do you even start with a scene like that when you're getting into it?

那是我最不喜欢的一场戏。

It was that was my least favorite scene.

但最终它却因为那些出色的演员们成为了我最喜欢的场景之一。

It it it wound up being one of my favorite scenes of all because of the wonderful, wonderful actors.

每个人都表现得非常棒。

Everyone did such a great job.

我最不喜欢的场景是那些冗长、多人参与的对话戏。

My least favorite scenes are long talky scenes with many, many, many people in them.

我一直在想。

I kept thinking.

我常对黛安和珍说，有时也会对崔娜说，你们觉得有没有可能把这场戏剪掉？

I I would say to Diane and and Jen and sometimes I'd say, you know, and Trina, would you know, is there a way we can cut this scene out?

她们的反应都是：你疯了吗？

And they're like, you nuts?

我们在西班牙北海岸一个宛如天堂的美丽地方拍摄。

And it was we shot in a beautiful place in paradise, basically, on the North Coast Of Spain.

嗯。

Mhmm.

西班牙北部。

The North Of Spain.

那里紧邻法国边境，位于圣塞巴斯蒂安稍西的位置。

They're right near the French border, a little bit West of San Sebastian.

那个绝美的地方叫做伊塔雷吉。

Beautiful, beautiful place called the Itaregi.

那是一家非常非常棒的精品酒店。

That was a wonderful wonderful boutique hotel.

它非常温馨。

It's very sweet.

他们对我们非常非常热情好客。

They were they were very very wonderful hosts to us.

所以那里简直就是天堂。

And so it's it's paradise there.

巴斯克地区的景色美极了。

It's beautiful in the Basque country.

那栋建筑是真实存在的，但我们拍摄场景所在的凉亭是由丹妮丝和她的团队设计建造的，由西班牙当地的一家工程公司施工完成。

And that building exists, but then there's this gazebo that we shot the scene under that Denise and her crew had to design and and build, and some local Spanish engineering firm built it.

因为我们基本上需要马歇尔·亚当斯——他出色地完成了前两集的拍摄工作——来控制光线

Because we needed we basically needed Marshall Adams, who did a brilliant job shooting these first two episodes, needed to control the light

因为我们拍摄了四天。

for because we shot over four days.

连续四天。

Four straight days.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且那个地区的天气变化无常

And the weather is very changeable in that part of

世界。

the world.

是啊。

Yeah.

尤其是深秋时节，因为我们第一次勘察时还是夏天。

Especially in late fall because when we scouted it, it was summer the first time.

我们选定了地点，那时正值百花盛开。

And we chose the location and everything was in bloom.

一切都美不胜收。

Everything was beautiful.

然后我们就想，哦，现在已经是...

Then we're like, oh, it's now

看来我们得十一月份去了。

Guess we're going in November.

没错。

Yeah.

所以我们不得不稍作调整。

So we had to adjust a little bit.

那是个非常宏大的场景。

It was a big, big scene.

而且...我一直都在做功课。

And and I just I always do homework.

正在听这段话的、想成为导演的人们——

Anyone who's listening to this who says, I wanna be a director.

就像我常说的，你们完全可以做到。编剧和节目统筹也一样，想怎么干就怎么干。

You could do it as I always say, same with writing and showrunning, do it any any darn way you want.

但我觉得最有帮助的方式是制定一个非常周密的计划，然后你就可以把计划扔掉了。

But the way I find most helpful is to go in with a really solid plan, and then you can throw the plan away.

但从导演的角度来看，我记得我大概有十四、五页的功课要做。

But as a from a directing point of view, I had, I think fourteen, fifteen pages of homework.

我记得在飞机上看到过那个。

I remember I saw that on on the plane.

哦，是啊。

Oh yeah.

我看了。

I looked at it.

简直太不可思议了。

Was it was incredible.

非常详尽。

It was very thorough.

确实，没错。

Very, yeah.

我尽可能做到详尽无遗。

I make it as thorough as I can.

我给镜头编号，大概排到了双C。

I letter the shots and I got up to probably double C.

这意味着字母表循环了多次，而字母表有26个字母对吧？

That means through the alphabet multiple times, and there's 26 letters in the alphabet?

对，正是这样。

Yeah, exactly.

所以那是数百个，如果深入D部分可能超过100个。

So that's hundreds of, potentially upwards of a 100 if you get into the d.

呃，不，我是说，别以为只有30或40个。

Well, no, I mean, don't think it was like 30 or 40.

数量很多，真的很多。

It was a lot, it was a lot.

非常多。

It was lot.

多到我甚至记不清了。

It was a I can't even remember it.

要知道，有多台摄像机，所以你得乘以那个数。

You know, there's multiple cameras, so you gotta multiply times that.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，那是有三台摄像机对吧？

Well, that's have a three cameras, right?

对。

Yeah.

有三台，没错。

Have three Yeah.

但你看，另一方面，多机位拍摄很棒。

But see, the other thing, multiple cameras is great.

正如Frank Black在《千年追凶》里常说的，这是福也是祸。

It's a blessing and a curse, as Frank Black used to say in Millennium.

向所有《千禧年》的粉丝们问好。

A little shout out for all the Millennium fans.

通常你只有一个绝佳镜头，但如果试图再塞进一台摄像机，就得调整第一台的位置，可能反而会降低拍摄质量。

Because you have one great shot typically, but if you try to squeeze another camera in, then you gotta jockey your first camera around and maybe it's now slightly less good a shot.

使用多台摄像机非常困难，特别是三台。

It's very tough using multiple, especially three.

当你加入第三台时，难度会呈指数级上升。

It gets exponentially harder when you add a third one in.

我们有个很棒的团队，特别要感谢西班牙的团队成员。

We had a great crew, wanna give a shout out to the crew in Spain.

天啊，他们干得太棒了，所有人都是

God, they did a great job, everybody They

确实做得非常出色，

did did a great job,

时间到了，但这次关于这个话题的讨论实在太精彩了。

we're out of time, but this has been a really awesome conversation about it.

我想我们该登机了。

And, I guess we're gonna hop on the plane.

谁知道接下来会飞往哪里呢？

Who knows where we're going from there?

感谢大家的收听和观看，

Well, thank you all for listening and, and for watching

这期节目。

the show.

这太棒了。

This was awesome.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢。

Thank Thank you.

好的。

Alright.

非常感谢卡罗琳娜·维德拉、黛安·默瑟、丹尼斯·皮齐尼和文斯·吉里根。

Thank you so much to Carolina Vidra, Diane Mercer, Denise Pizzini, and Vince Gilligan.

也感谢您收听《Pluribus》——苹果TV官方播客，由Highbridge Productions与索尼影视电视联合制作。

And thank you for listening to Pluribus, the official podcast, an Apple TV podcast produced by Highbridge Productions and Sony Pictures Television.

请务必在苹果播客上关注我们，以便在订阅中获取下一集，并在苹果TV上观看《Pluribus》（视地区而定）。

Be sure to follow on Apple podcasts to get the next episode in your feed and watch Pluribus on Apple TV where available.

我们的剪辑与混音师是尼古拉斯·蔡。

Our editor and mixer is Nicholas Tsai.

主题音乐由戴夫·波特创作。

Theme music by Dave Porter.

联合制片人包括阿拉娜·霍夫曼、贾斯汀·维比斯特和尼古拉斯·蔡。

Associate producers are Alana Hoffman, Justin Verbeest, and Nicholas Tsai.

执行制片人是珍·卡罗尔，以及我——你们的主持人克里斯·麦卡莱布。

Executive producers are Jen Carroll, and me, your host, Chris McCaleb.

请在苹果播客上关注并收听。

Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts.