第一季第三集：手榴弹

呃，不是站着摔的。

Well, not from standing.

不是站着摔的。

Not from standing.

我想特技演员负责了那部分。

I think stunts did that part.

是的。

Yeah.

我们先是跪下，然后倒下，接着趴下。

We did it from kneeling down and then falling and then going down.

但是

But

我们确实在他们...哦对，爆炸发生时我们确实那么做了。

we did when they, oh yeah, we did that when the explosion actually happened.

是啊，我们已经趴得更低了。

Yeah, we're already more down on the ground and.

哦，没错。

Oh, that's right.

对。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

这是个...我觉得我们不可能再调整时机了

It's a We could I don't think we could have timed it otherwise even

尽管它

though it

没有...是啊。

didn't Yeah.

那样做会很难。

That would have been hard to do.

是啊。

Yeah.

让你从站立状态完全落到地面，然后

Getting you from all the way from standing to the ground and then

因为我觉得他们也不得不，怎么说呢，从站立状态，但更像是悬在空中那样降下来。

Because I think also they had to, I think, kind of go from, like, standing, but, like, in the air kind of go down.

这就像是一个你无法精确把握何时坠落以及如何坠落的复杂过程。

It was like a whole thing that you wouldn't be able to put the perfect timing of where to fall and how to fall.

想想看

Think it'd

会有点偏差。

be little bit off.

把摄像机放在地上，对。

Put the camera on the ground and yeah.

我们基本上围绕那个时刻策划了一切。

We sort of planned everything around that moment.

没错。

Right.

就像，那是关键镜头，然后我就在想，我们需要安排些什么才能拍到那个画面？

Like, that's the hero shot, and then I sort of was just trying to figure out, like, what do we need around it to kinda get to that shot?

是的。

Yeah.

就是那样

That's that was

我觉得是一样的。

I think it's the same.

我们特效部门出色的负责人维尔纳·汉莱恩说，我认为这和《绝命毒师》中杀死古斯·弗林用的是同一种技术。

Werner Hanlein, our amazing head of the department of Special Effects said, I think it's the same technology used for killing Gus Fring and Breaking Bad.

就像你说的，是空气炮。

Like you said, it's air cannons.

这是一个大型氮气罐，当你加压释放时，它不会形成可见的冷凝。

It's a big tank of nitrogen gas so that when you release it under pressure, it doesn't turn into visible condensation.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

看起来简直太棒了。

It looked freaking awesome.

我还要特别感谢韦伦和我们的电工团队实现了那道闪光效果。

And I and also shout out to Waylon and our electric crew for getting that flash.

它出现的位置堪称完美。

Like, it happens in a pretty perfect spot.

你会感觉自己看到了火焰，当然，当然，克里斯剪辑的方式和我们调色师的处理手法——

You feel like you've seen fire and obviously, obviously, the way that that Chris cut it in the way that our our colorist

剪辑很棒。

Good editing.

戴夫。

Dave.

我们的调色师戴夫干得漂亮。

Our colorist Dave did a great job.

他有种族歧视倾向。

He's colorist.

干得漂亮。

Great job.

但当我们拍摄时，现场气氛非常棒。

But it was cool on set when we did it.

所有人都在鼓掌。

Everyone was clapping.

大家都特别兴奋，不停地说'天啊'。

Everyone was just so excited, and they were just like, oh my god.

那太不可思议了。

That was incredible.

你们拍了多少条？

How many takes did you do?

我记得我们拍了两条。

I think we did two takes.

那晚之后，我记得每个人都在问'你看到了吗？'

And then I remember that whole night, everyone would walk around and be like, did you see that?

那太神奇了。

That was amazing.

所有人都为那个镜头的完美呈现欣喜若狂。

Everyone was so ecstatic about that shot, how well it turned out.

当你看到爆炸场景，看到他们降落在镜头前的地面，看到细小的碎片如同粒子般与他们互动碰撞——那全都是实拍效果。

When you see that explosion and when you see them landing on the ground in front of the camera and you see little pieces, part like particles interacting with them and hitting them, that's all real.

这里没有、没有、没有像玻璃墙那样的东西。

There's not there's not there's not like a glass wall.

这一切真的在发生。

It's all really happening.

是啊。

It yeah.

丹尼斯，作为美术指导，你的团队在那些场景搭建中参与度有多高？

Denise, as the production designer, how involved is your team with the build of that stuff?

嗯，我们不得不更换部分窗框

Well, we had to change out some of the window frames

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

还有墙壁。

And the walls.

然后我们和维尔纳合作。

And then we worked with Werner.

比如，我们做了大量研究，关于手榴弹实际爆炸的方式。

Like, we did a lot of research on, like, how a grenade actually explodes.

它是向内爆裂？

Does it come in?

还是向外炸开？

Does it go out?

以及，爆炸后的碎片会是什么样子？

And, what does the debris look like?

那么后果会怎样？

And then what's the aftermath?

事后看起来会是什么样子？

What does it look like afterwards?

我们更关注事后。

We are more about the after.

手榴弹爆炸后看起来真实吗？

Does it look real after the grenade goes off?

对。

Right.

但是，你知道的，他在墙内装了些炸药。

But, you know, he put some charges inside the walls.

我们很早就知道了，谢天谢地，因为这类事件总是有非常详细的预案。

And we knew early on, thank goodness, because there's always a very comprehensive outline for all of these.

所以我们早就知道会有手榴弹和爆炸。

So we knew early on that there was going to be a grenade and explosion.

因此当我们建造前厅时，就确保它能承受那种爆炸效果。

So when we built that front room, we made sure that it could accommodate that effect.

而且我们在讨论时——因为要让团队达成共识，毕竟每个人对爆炸场景的想象都不同。

And we also and when we were talking about it, because it's like getting clarity across the team because, of course, you know, everybody has a different vision for how an explosion happens.

手榴弹其实不会像那样爆炸

And a a grenade doesn't really blow up the way that

没错。

Right.

很多人都这么认为。

A lot of people think it does.

所以就像是，几乎同时发生了两次爆炸，嗯哼。

And so it's like, there's really two explosions that are kinda happening almost simultaneously Mhmm.

就是手榴弹滚到了卡车底下。

Which is the grenade goes under the truck.

前面的卡车爆炸了。

The truck out front blows up.

所以会有火焰闪过，但手榴弹其实不会造成这种效果。

So there's a flash of fire, but you wouldn't really get that from a grenade.

所以需要搞清楚所有破坏情况，比如什么在爆炸，以及这是否导致了什么后果？

So just figuring out all of the damage and, like, what's blowing up if that's causing what?

没错。

Right.

实际击中的位置。

Where it would actually hit.

你确实想看到些效果，因为如果冲击力不够，但你还是想看到点什么... 对。

And you do wanna see something, you know, because maybe if it's not that impactful, but you do wanna see something just to kind of Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

得加点好莱坞特效，因为真实的手榴弹爆炸可能不会

Gotta Hollywood it a little bit, because I think a real grenade going off might not

甚至... 没那么刺激。

even It's not that exciting.

是啊。

Yeah.

如果你在场的话会很刺激。

Exciting if you're there.

不过确实。

But Yeah.

还有

And

我们也研究了它的时间点。

we did research the timing of it too.

我们尽量精确计算，从勺子飞出去到爆炸的时间，大概是

We tried to be as accurate as possible with how like, from the time the spoon from the time it flies out to the time it blows up is it's it's something like

相当接近了。

It's pretty close.

五到六秒左右，而且

Five to six seconds or something, and it's

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

我们讨论过这个。

We talked about that.

没错。

Yeah.

不过还有一点，虽然那明显是假手雷，但当你拿着它时就会意识到，那个保险销虽然不算太松，但也挺难拔的。可一旦拔出来，一切发生得有多快——你刚松手扔出去，砰的一声就炸了。

But also, like, having that it was obviously a fake grenade, but having that and you just realize how a little, not flimsy, but that spoon is, it's a little hard to get out, but once you do, it's like how quickly everything happens, you just let it go and throw and it's just boom, it happens.

就是感觉，我也不知道。

It just feels, I don't know.

你想到的就像是手榴弹那样更激烈复杂的东西，然后你就觉得，不行。

You just you think of, like, grenade at something so much more intense and complicated, and you're like, no.

只要把保险销拔掉然后放手就行。

Just pull the spoon out and just let it go.

嗯，你拉掉拉环，然后保险夹就会弹飞。

Well, you pull the ring, and then the spoon goes flying.

哦，原来是这样的吗？

Oh, is that what it is?

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

那个

The

拉环。

ring.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

那是我最喜欢的镜头。

That's my favorite shot.

我热爱爆炸场面，但我最喜欢的镜头是那道光线，没错。

I love the explosion, but my favorite shot is the ray is like, yeah.

就像你给我一颗真手榴弹，然后它嗖地一声飞过画面。

Like, you'd give me a real hand grenade, and then it goes twing and goes flying through frame.

我超爱那个。

I love that.

那很实用。

That's that's practical.

那是那是真的

That is That that is a real

我们当时很担心，因为很难让勺子朝特定方向飞，甚至要调整快门角度之类的

We we were worried at some point because it's, like, hard to figure out how to get the spoon to fly in a direction even messing with, like, the shutter angle and

那个镜头之后发生的事，我最喜欢戈登说'好的'的时候。

stuff like that shot after that when that happened, I love when Gordon's like, okay.

所以你要冷静地靠近她。

So you're gonna come up to her calmly.

就像'我们能搞定，一切都没问题，好的，你刚做完那个，现在只剩五秒了'。

Like, we got this, everything's okay, okay, like, you just did that, we only have five seconds now.

我就问'你确定这是个紧张时刻吗？'

And I'm like, are you sure this is an intense moment?

你说'对，这就是我要的效果'

You're like, yes, that's what I want you to do.

而且效果非常棒。

And it works so great.

你演奏得太出色了，就像卡罗尔，如果我们能这么说的话。

You play it so great, it's like, Carol, if we may.

如果我们能这么说的话。

If we may.

依然彬彬有礼。

Still polite.

是啊。

Yeah.

依然友善。

Still kind.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

给予她自主权，让她能自己做决定。

Giving her the autonomy to be, like, make her own decisions.

你知道吗？

You know?

我们可以吗？

Can we?

求求你了，可以吗？

Can we please?

你知道吗？

You know?

还有你

And you

播放那个

play that

真的很棒。

really well.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我认为这是一个情商爆发的时刻，因为我觉得如果她当时犹豫了，比如说不。

I think it's a it's a moment of emotional intelligence because I think if she had a hesitation, like, no.

我本意就是要这么做，我打算把自己炸飞。

I meant to do this, and I'm gonna I was gonna blow myself up.

你本会放任她

You would've let her

如果你放手的话。

if you let go.

又是一个‘嗯’。

That was another yeah.

我们讨论过这件事，因为她有权决定自己的人生方向。

We had conversations about it because she has her own agency to decide what she wants to do with her life.

如果她想自爆，我们就说‘那你呢’。

And if she wants to blow herself up, we're like And you.

你本来会觉得没问题的。

You'd have been fine with that.

对我来说，是的。

For me, yes.

当然。

Of course.

就像是

It's like

但那一刻的感觉就像是‘好吧’。

But it's that moment of, like Yeah.

你能看出她当时愣住了，恐惧让她动弹不得。

You can see that she's like, oh, this is she's paralyzed with fear.

而我

And I

我认为那一刻的情商体现是：这并非有意为之。

think it's in a moment of emotional intelligence that's like, this was not intentional.

这不是你想要的。

This is not what you want.

我看得出来你...你同意我把这个扔掉。

I can see that you're that you you're you're okay with me throwing this away.

而且，你知道，丹尼斯刚才提到了一个我忘记的重要观点，这对想做这份工作的人来说非常重要。

So And, you know, Denise brought up an important point a minute ago that I had forgotten, but it's very important to for, you know, folks who who wanna do this job.

我们至少掌握了所有这些剧本的大纲。

We had at least the outlines of all these scripts.

实际上在第一集开拍前，我们就已经完成了大部分剧本。

We had most of these scripts actually before we ever shot day one of episode one.

我们大致知道故事的发展方向。

We kind of knew where we're going.

但就像丹尼斯说的，卡罗尔家前院的设计很大程度上是为了配合——这么说吧——我们想安排一个手榴弹场景。

But like Denise said, the very design of the front of Carol's house, in large part was colored by, so to speak, by the fact that we wanted to have a hand grenade scene.

而且她的车需要停得离窗户足够近，窗户应该设计成什么形状？

And the her vehicle needed to be parked close enough to the window and how should the window be shaped?

对。

Right.

这就导致了那种圆形的...叫什么来着？

It led to that sort of round what do you call that?

像是凸窗之类的，但有点圆弧形的

Like a bay window or something, but it's kinda rounded and

就是圆形。

Just round.

没错。

Yeah.

然后我们在外面测量它。

And then we're out there measuring it.

你能从窗户把手榴弹扔到她停车的那个位置吗？

Can you throw a grenade from the window to where the cars whatever vehicle she's driving is parked?

是的，当你有时间时——或者说当你清楚故事走向时，这感觉太棒了，帮助非常大。

And, yeah, it's it's amazing when you have the time, or rather when you know where you're going story wise, it helps so much.

这真是个美妙的全部

Just it's a wonderful All

所有这些，比如她破门而入的场景，邻居们能从那里看到吗？

of that, like just her breaking into her own front door, can the neighbors see it from there?

我的意思是，所有这些因素都在起作用，其中很多都源自那些指导我们设计整个街区的规划草图。

I mean, all of that plays in and and a lot of that was taken from the outlines that kind of drove how we designed that whole neighborhood.

你知道，随着我们越来越了解其他房屋会发生什么，我们就能提前做好规划。

You know, what happens and the more we knew like what happens to other houses, we could plan ahead for that.

她家后院够大能埋下她吗？对。

Does she have a big enough backyard to bury her Right.

你知道吗？

You know?

由叙事需求和叙事决策所引导。

Directed by narrative needs and narrative decisions.

是啊。

Yeah.

还有件发生在那个场景后续的事我觉得特别有意思，戈登，就是让摄像师拆下镜头，通过实际移动镜头来增强佐西亚失血垂死而卡萝竭力抢救时那种混乱感。

It's something else that happened in that that aftermath of that scene that I think is really interesting, Gordon, was having the camera techs unseat the lens and kind of go like, have it practically moving the lens in and around to kind of enhance the chaos of that moment as Zosia is bleeding out and Carol is trying to save her life.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

你

Do you

想谈谈那个决定吗？

wanna talk about that decision?

我是说，嗯，我们，我想我曾在《妖夜慌踪》幕后看到过一些片段，或者看到某个场景让我想起，就像，有个瞬间大卫·林奇把镜头从相机里取出来，产生了奇怪的失焦效果。

I mean, well, we, I think I I'd seen something of a behind the scenes of Lost Highway or saw a scene from Lost Highway that reminded me that, like, there's a moment where David Lynch took the lens out of the camera, and it does a weird unfocusing effect.

嗯。

Mhmm.

就在镜头重新安装时，它会有点晃动。

And it's like right when you when the lens is seating, it kinda jumps around.

没错。

Right.

所以

And so

所以我对保罗说，你看，这应该是一种印象派且破碎的感觉。

and that's why I said to Paul, I'm like, you know, this is supposed to be like a kind of impressionistic and fractured kinda feeling.

对。

Right.

要不我们在这里试试看？

Like, what if we tried that here?

刚取出来又重新安装，这操作非常困难，所有功劳归于克里斯·诺里斯，我们出色的第一摄影助理。

Just taken out and reseating, and it's very hard to do, and all credit to Chris Norris, our incredible a camera first AC.

他的工作主要是找准焦点确保画面清晰，但同时还要拆卸镜头、重新安装，并在拍摄过程中不断调整焦点，这使得摄像机画面会有些晃动。

His job is generally, you know, finding the focus and making sure everything's sharp, but he's also taking the lens out and putting it back in and finding the focus through the course of the shot, and it makes that's where the the camera the it jumps around a bit.

看起来

It looks

有点像分形效果。

a little bit like fraction.

这不是剪辑技巧。

It's not an editorial trick.

是实拍效果。

It's practical.

你肯定不想把这该死的东西摔了。

And you don't wanna drop that damn thing.

它值两万美元呢。

It's worth, like, $20,000.

那些镜头非常昂贵。

Those lenses are very expensive.

你需要精准把握时机操作，不能只是模糊带过，要能感受到那种节奏，但又不能太过...

You wanna be able to do it so that the timing is right, and it's not just fuzzing out and you kinda feel it, but without so they It's

充满动感。

very kinetic.

后来我们又进一步调整，删减了些许帧数让效果更突出——这其实很主观。

And then and then I think we took it a little further with some of it, and we did remove frames here and there just to to really make it more it's really subjective.

是的。

Yeah.

这个场景更加主观，基本上是从卡罗尔的视角出发的，我认为那种她正在感受的状态被视觉化地呈现了出来，这非常酷。

The scene is way more subjective and kind of from Carol's point of view, kind of that just the way that it it's feeling for her, I think, is is really represented visually, which I think is is very cool.

没错。

Yeah.

而且再次强调，这是实拍的。

And and again, practical.

我们没有用数字技术那样处理那个画面。

We're not digitally manipulating that image in that way.

这实际上是通过镜头实现的，只是在这里或那里去掉了一些帧。

It's actually happening with the lens and then just removing frames here and there.

还有血迹效果。

And the blood effect.

所以当我们看到流血场景，你倒在地上等等，希望这些能给卡罗尔头脑中那种完全混乱的状态增添一点味道。

So it's when when we're watching the the bleeding and you kind of on the ground and all of that, hopefully, it adds a little bit of a a flavor to be in Carol's head of how completely discombobulated this.

她不仅没打算引爆这颗手雷，她根本不知道这是颗真手雷。

Not only did she not intend to to blow up this grade, she she really had no idea that this was a real grenade.

她只是以为他们在撒谎，他们会说'哦，你想要手雷是吧'。

She just assumed that they're liars, and they'd be like, oh, you wanted a grenade.

看。

Look.

我们会让你开心的，这没什么大不了的。

We'll make you happy, and that there's nothing to it.

虽然有但是，但她学到了非常重要的事情。

There's but but she learned something very important.

你摔得真漂亮，亚当。

You did a great fall, Adam.

我正想问

I was just gonna ask

你们。

you guys.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

为此做了多少准备？

How much prep went into that?

那让人害怕吗？

And was that frightening?

我是说，因为我知道有些电影特效。

I mean, because I I know that there's some movie magic.

石头是软垫的，但你是真的——我是说，毫不犹豫地，它

The stones are padded, but you're really I mean, with no hesitation, it

看起来我们试了多少次。

looks how many times we tried it.

我想我们讨论过，然后我练习了几次，之后就没有了。

I think we talked about it, then I think I practiced a couple times, and then we just didn't.

我们还讨论过，你知道，当我从房子里出来时，她受伤有多严重，以及这些人，其他人受伤时，他们会像普通人一样感到疼痛，这些方面是否有程度上的差异。

We also talked about, you know, when I come out of the house of, like, how injured is she and how, you know, these people, the others, when they get injured, they feel pain as normal people do, is there less in the levels of all that stuff.

对，就是那样，我们练习了几次后我就直接上了，大概拍了有两三次吧。

Yeah, so that was, yeah, we would just practice a couple times and then I just went for it and we shot it, I think two or three times.

对。

Yeah.

然后就是更多的‘对’。

And there was just more yeah.

我很抱歉。

I'm sorry.

最让我尴尬的是你直接跪下去了。

The part that makes me cringe the most is you drop it to your knees.

因为

Because

那时候对。

when Yeah.

你当时穿着...所以我戴了护膝。

You were wearing So I was wearing knee pads.

没错。

That's right.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我戴了护膝，而且垫子看起来像是石头材质的。

I was wearing knee pads and the padding on the what it looked like, it was the stone.

还挺厚的。

It was pretty thick.

所以完全没问题。

So it was completely fine.

一点都不疼。

It didn't hurt.

这让我能够真正放手去做。

And so it allowed me to really allow myself to go for it

哇。

Wow.

然后顺其自然。

And let it happen.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以就是这样。

So that was yeah.

太棒了。

It was great.

我还有另一个想法，我觉得你表现得非常出色，尤其是当你躺在那里表演时，那种地狱般的

And I another thought where I think you did a great job was just the performance of when you're, like, laying there and The hell

要来了吗？

is coming?

然后你就这样，

And you're like,

别担心，卡罗尔。

don't worry, Carol.

不是我。

It's not me.

没事的，别担心。

It's it's don't worry.

有人来了。

People are coming.

你没事的。

You're it's okay.

比如，你快要晕倒了。

Like, you're passing out.

你在流血。

You're bleeding.

你后背有弹片，但你在担心

You've got shrapnel in your back, and but you're worried

受伤的事，但我觉得没关系。

about injured, but I'm like, it's okay.

但你确实没有。

But you're not yeah.

就像你能感受到疼痛，但同时又有种超然物外的禅意。

It's like you're you feel the pain, but also you're you have the sort of zen of being one of the others.

我很喜欢进行这些对话，就是探讨我们能走多远？

And I loved having all these conversations, you know, of just, like, how far do we take it?

这些人能走多远？

How how far do these people go?

这是给卡萝尔的，给那些老派的人，你懂吧？

It's for Carol, for the old schoolers, you know?

所以能够演奏那个真是件很棒的事。

And so it was it was such a great thing to be able to play that.

很有趣。

It was fun.

是啊。

Yeah.

你能稍微谈谈你的试镜过程吗？

Can you talk a little bit about the audition process for you?

因为在那个场景之前，她带了手榴弹，但舒巴必须做些什么，当他们谈论阿夸维特酒时，据我所知那是化学反应试镜的场景。

Because just preceding that, the scene where she's brought the grenade, but Shuba must do and when they're just talking about Akvavit, my understanding is that was the chemistry read scene.

是的。

Yes.

确实是。

It was.

对啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

和雷一起。

With Ray.

嗯。

Yeah.

我本来想在第二集问你的，但我不想透露那个

What what was the I would have asked you in in episode two, but I didn't wanna give away the

场景吗？

The scene?

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Of course.

或许可以聊聊那次经历是怎样的，以及它如何影响或区别于实际和她拍摄那场戏的过程。

Maybe talk about what that experience was like, and then how it informed or differed from actually shooting the scene with her.

嗯，这很棒因为我觉得在试镜前，我有机会和文斯聊了聊。

Well, was amazing because I think before the test, I got to speak with Vince.

文斯带我过了一遍当天会是什么样子。

And Vince took me through what the day was gonna be like.

我们坐下来聊了很久，那感觉很好。

And we sat down, we talked for a while, and that was great.

所以我们互相了解了，变得更自在了。

So got to know each other, got more comfortable.

因为这真是个让人紧张的过程，你知道，就是突然就轮到你了，然后他们就像‘好吧，让我们看看你的表现’。

Cause it's such a nerve racking process, you know, and it's just, you're just there, and then one's kinda like, alright, let's see what you got.

但感觉真的很放松，虽然我当时很紧张。

You know, but it just felt really comfortable, I was nervous.

我紧张得不得了。

I was incredibly nervous.

我全身都在发抖。

I was shaking my whole body.

当时感觉灵魂出窍，因为这是我第一次见到文斯，然后又见到雷。

Was having an out of body experience because I was like here I am meeting Vince for the first time and then meeting Ray.

我们围坐聊天，然后话题又回到了雷身上。

We sat around, we talked and then you know again it goes to Ray.

她总让人感到特别自在。

She just makes you feel so comfortable.

有次他们问我和雷要不要出去排练下场景之类的。

And at one point, they asked if we wanna step outside Ray and I, and, you know, rehearsed the scene and and all that.

我记得我当时拒绝了。

And I I remember I was like, no.

我觉得这样就挺好。

I think I'm good.

我们就直接演吧，看看效果如何。

Let's just let's just do it and just see what happens.

和雷对戏时，她总是那么乐于配合。

And just, you know, playing with Ray, and and she's, again, she's just so giving.

她全神贯注。

She's so present.

她完全沉浸在当下。

She's so there.

我们演完那场戏后，文斯给了些建议，我们又重演了一遍。

And we just play the scene, and then Vince gave notes, we play the scene again.

我还记得我跟你说过什么，文斯。

And and I remember I said something to you, Vince.

我当时觉得，我笑得是不是太多了。

I was like, I think I'm smiling too much.

我笑得太多吗？

Am I smiling too much?

你就说，不不，没有

And you're like, no, no, not

完全没有。

at all.

你知道的，你在这儿。

You know, you're here.

你表现得非常出色。

You killed it.

这是个非常难演的角色。

You were the it's a very tough role.

因为就像雷自己跟我解释的那样，当你表演时，

Because as Ray herself explained it to me, when you are acting,

你是在对别人做出反应。

you're reacting to somebody else.

你总是会与某人共情。

And you always you go on the empathetic journey with somebody.

是啊，当然。

Yeah, of course.

你在共情他人的情绪。

You're matching emotion.

是的，确实如此。

Yeah, you do.

如果有人生气，你也会生气。

If someone gets mad, you get mad.

如果有人难过，你也会难过。

If someone gets sad, you get sad.

嗯，你也会对他们的愤怒做出反应，对吧？

Well, also you react to their madness, right?

所以如果有人生气，你的身体自然会对此愤怒做出反应，而其他人不会。

So if somebody gets mad, naturally your body reacts to that anger and the others don't.

对。

Yeah.

他们只需要保持空间，让情绪像一阵风一样掠过，就像，噗，你知道的，像什么都没发生。

They just have to hold space and just has to wash over them just like, poof, you know, like nothing.

我不得不问戈登关于豆芽的拍摄顺序，而且很难谈论在实际豆芽店里拍摄时间如此紧张的情况。

I can't not ask Gordon about the sprout sequence, and it's it's impossible to talk about having so little time to shoot in the actual Sprouts.

谢谢。

Thanks.

感谢豆芽店允许我们在那里拍摄。

Shout out to Sprouts for letting us shoot there.

知道。

Know.

Brouts太棒了。

Brouts is awesome.

是啊。

Yeah.

当我提交这个时，丹尼斯立刻就说，这个序列太疯狂了。

When I turned this in, Denise immediately was like, this sequence is insane.

我当时就懵了，啥？

And I was like, what?

我们只是...这只是个超市而已。

We just it's just a supermarket.

我们只是...我们只是找了个超市。

We just we just find a supermarket.

她却说，不。

And she was like, no.

这太疯狂了。

This is insane.

我都不知道在已经有冰旅馆的情况下我们该怎么处理这个。

I don't know how we're gonna do this with the ice hotel already.

就像你说的，当你写点东西然后发现时，这就是其中之一。

And and like you say, when you write something and you find out, this was one of those.

确实，我们当时必须想办法解决。

And yeah, we did have to figure out how to do it.

最开始...我们找到的是Sprouts超市。

It was it first, we found Sprouts.

我想克里斯蒂安和Sprouts超市的克里斯蒂安·德布多伊——我们出色的门店经理——发生了争执，他说他们可能有兴趣。但当你和他们谈时，他们却说不。

I think Christian's got into got into it with Sprouts, our our Christian DeBudoy, our our wonderful location manager and said they might be interested And when, of course, when you're talking to them, it's like, no.

不。

No.

他们一开始会说好的。

They'll let you first, they're like, yeah.

当然。

Sure.

我们会让你在店里自由拍摄一周。

We'll we'll we'll give you the run of the place for a week.

我们觉得这太棒了。

And we're like, that's fantastic.

但随着事情层层上报，拍摄天数变得越来越短。

And then as it goes up the corporate ladder, those days get shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter shorter and shorter.

因为他们要经营超市生意。

Because they have a business to to to a supermarket business.

他们要经营超市业务，而我们得想办法清空店铺再重新进货等等。

They have a supermarket business, and we have to figure out how to empty the store and then restock the store and and all of that.

最终我们想出个折中方案：可以在Sprouts店内拍摄，但不能在店外停车场拍。

So eventually, we've sort of figured out a two state solution where we could shoot inside Sprouts but not outside Sprouts in the parking lot.

对。

Right.

我们还设计了一段类似巴斯比·伯克利的歌舞镜头

And we had a there was a sort of Busby Berkeley esque sequence that I'd written

为一场卡车芭蕾。

for A truck ballet.

一场芭蕾。

A ballet.

嗯，我原本是为商店内部写的，就是补货时物品被摆上货架之类的场景。

Well, I had it written for inside the store, the restocking where there's things are going up on the shelves and all this stuff.

这个是有故事板的。

Storyboards exist for this.

我当时觉得非常美好。

And I was like Really lovely.

我们...我们实在做不到。

We we just couldn't.

我们...这根本不可能。

We we it was impossible.

我们刚做完

We just did

不对。

not Right.

因为你会看到他们实际补货的全过程。

Have Because you were gonna see them actually restocking everything.

比我们做的多得多。

Way more than we did.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们确实看到了些蛛丝马迹，但原本打算大做文章的。

We see we see the hints of it, but we were gonna really make a meal out of it.

我们当时说，听着，我们确实可以大做文章，但必须把场景挪到室外才行。

And we said, look, we can we can make a meal out of it, but we had to sort of shift it to be outside.

没错。

Right.

然后还得想办法解决——因为停车场位于一家废弃的西尔斯百货，和同意配合拍摄的超市根本不在同一个城区。

And then figure out because the parking lot is in a abandoned Sears in a totally different part of town than the supermarket that was able to shoot with us.

所以上帝保佑Sprouts超市愿意提供拍摄场地，但这过程可费了不少周折。

So God bless Sprouts for giving us the the ability to shoot there at all, but it was quite a deal.

我敢说关于这事，你记得的细节肯定比我多。

I'm sure you you probably remember more details than I do about how this

Sprouts超市确实帮了大忙。

Sprouts was really helpful too.

我们用了他们不少员工协助，因为实际上我们清空了半个超市，你知道的，然后又重新补货。

We used a lot of their people that help us because we actually did empty out half the store, you know, and restock it.

所以布景组连夜派了好几组人轮班。

So, were, you know, a couple of overnight crews in set deck.

后来我们去西尔斯百货拍摄时——其实在《风骚律师》里就用过那个场地。

And then when we went to the Sears, I still had we had shot on Better Call Saul.

我们在那个西尔斯百货里搭建了整个百货公司的场景。

We had created a whole department store in that Sears.

确实如此。

That's right.

一样的事。

Same thing.

是你

Did you

写的吗？

write that?

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

那是艾莉森写的。

That was Allison.

对。

Yeah.

米歇尔·麦克卢伦执导的。

And Michelle McCluren directed it.

没错。

Right.

乔伊·卢和我负责剪辑的。

And Joey Lou and I edited that.

是的。

Yeah.

我当时有点，哦，天哪。

And I was kind of like, oh, boy.

这就是为什么当我看到Sprouts时，心想，哦，它差点毁了Sol上的艺术部门。

That's why when I saw the Sprouts thing, thought, oh, it almost killed the art department on Sol.

我当时想，不知道我们能不能搞定这事，尤其是面对真食物和所有这些其他东西。

I thought, I don't know if we can do this, you know, especially with real food and all this other stuff.

但谢天谢地Sprouts最终决定配合我们。

But thank God that Sprouts did decide to play along.

他们太棒了。

They were wonderful.

是啊，确实。

Yeah, they were.

确实如此。

They were.

然后我们把停车场、那家西尔斯百货的外景改造成了Sprouts的外景，效果很不错。

And then we'd made the parking lot, the exterior of that Sears, our exterior of Sprouts, which worked out fine.

最后我们还处理了所有卡车的问题。

Then we ended up addressing all the trucks.

对。

Yeah.

视觉效果搞定的。

Visual effects making it.

没错。

Yeah.

真的。

Really.

是啊。

Yeah.

那些卡车司机技术真是精准。

And those trucks are really precision drivers.

没错。

Yeah.

我们之所以在一些镜头中停留那么久，就是为了让你们看清那些卡车确实精准地撞上了标记点。

The reason we stay in some of those shots so long is just so you can see those trucks are actually hitting marks Yeah.

驾驶精准得如同艺术。

Driving with other esque precision.

光是这个场景我们就能聊上三小时。

We could talk about it for three hours about that whole sequence.

我希望观众看到时会觉得这一切毫不费力。

It it my hope is that when people see it, it will feel effortless.

因为就该让人觉得理所当然——就像其他人那样，'哦，当然'。

Like, because it should feel like the others kinda just, oh, sure.

想要个超市场景？

You want a supermarket?

直接拍就是了。

We'll just do it.

我认为这要归功于我们的特技团队——那些司机们，还有视效团队，因为我们需要通过合成让人群看起来无处不在，还要解决内外景匹配的问题：有几处镜头是从Sprouts超市内往外看，但外景实际是西尔斯停车场，还有几处外景回拍镜头，必须让所有细节都严丝合缝。

I think that everybody our stunts team that had those drivers and our VFX team because we had to do some compositing to just make that crowd feel like it was coming from everywhere and all of this and figure out how to match because when there are a few times where you're inside Sprouts looking out and it does not look like the Sears parking lot and there's a couple times where you're outside looking back, and you just had to make everything match.

Nido或动作编排与你合作，并和临时演员们一起工作。

Nido or movement choreography made and worked with you and worked with the extras.

是的。

Yeah.

临时演员们表现很棒。

Extras were great.

他们做得非常出色。

They did a great job.

Nido和Angie一起合作过。

Nido and and Angie worked together.

Angie Meyer，第一副导演。

Angie Meyer, the first AD.

对，我们的第一副导演。

Yeah, our first AD.

他们负责管理临时演员和背景动作，对吧？

They're in charge of extras and back or background action, right?

但我们需要非常精确的配合。

But we had so much precision that needed to be there.

所以Nito和他的一些核心成员——那些受过舞蹈训练、懂得如何移动的人——事先进行了排练。

So, Nito and Nito had practiced with some of his key people that were sort of dancer trained that they knew how to move.

然后这些人需要与Angie带领的毫无训练基础的其他人员融合在一起。

And those people had to be filtered in with all these other people who had no training that Angie was working with.

我认为这比看起来要复杂得多。

It's more complicated than it looks, I think.

这相当复杂。

It's pretty complicated.

所以这又是那种看似简单实则复杂的事情，

So It's, again, one of those effortlessly complex things where it's

希望如此吧。

like Hopefully.

感觉像在跳舞，一切都完美契合。

It feels like a dance, and it feels like everything just slots in perfectly.

但真正实现它所需的细节量简直惊人。

But the amount of detail that went into actually making it a reality is just staggering.

当然，也要感谢你把各部分组合起来的智慧。

And, of course, credit to you for figuring out how to put these pieces together.

这真的太不可思议了。

Like, it's it's incredible.

我记得看到时就在想，好吧。

Like, I remember seeing it and going, okay.

看到这种场景时我紧张得要命，一直在想这真的能行吗？

Like, it's just I'm so tense when I'm seeing a sequence like that, and I'm like, is this gonna work at all?

但当我看到你的剪辑版本时，我就觉得没问题了。

And it's like, when I saw your cut, I'm like, okay.

我们可以确定这能成功。

We can we'll figure that this is gonna work.

不会变成一场灾难的。

It's not gonna be a disaster.

我很高兴我很开心。

I'm I'm glad I'm happy.

是的。

Yes.

在真正的芽菜店里待了多少天，在西尔斯百货外面又待了多少天？

How many days total inside the real sprouts and outside the Sears?

你们还记得总共拍摄了多少天吗？

Do you guys remember how many days total you shot?

我感觉我们有，

I feel like we had,

大概在芽菜店里待了两天，

like, two days in Sprouts with,

对，没错。

like Correct.

细分来说，我想总共是三天，但其中有一天是通宵换装，还有一天是外景拍摄，所以可能总共拍摄了三天，然后是四天？

Breakdown and break so is it I think it was three days total, but one of those was, like, an overnight dress and an an outside looking in and so maybe three days shooting total and then four?

对。

Yeah.

三天还是四天？

Three or four?

或者在西尔斯百货拍了四天。

Or four at Sears.

是的。

Yeah.

一个是开卡车的，一个是卸货的。

One of those just truck driving, one of them just unloading.

这确实证明了

It's a real testament to

是啊。

Yeah.

有...有

There were there were

很多

a lot

就像你说的，剧组和那些群众演员都做得非常出色。

the crew that and like you said, the extras that are doing such great work.

他们干得很棒。

They did a great job.

玛丽找到了一些不错的人选。

Marie found some good people.

玛丽，我们的群演选角导演。

Marie, our our background casting.

确实如此。

She did.

我得特别感谢罗伯特·贝利，他是我们的

I gotta give a shout out to, Robert Bailey, who was our

没错。

Yes.

DHL快递员。

DHL guy.

只因那最后一刻。

Just because that end moment.

我喜欢他鞋子的吱吱声和他的表演。

And I like the squeak in his shoes and his performance.

这很棘手，因为他必须拥有与你带给Zosia的卡罗莱纳相同的能量，而你有更多时间去融入那个角色并理解它。

It's so tricky because he has to have the same kind of energy that that Carolina that you're bringing to Zosia, and you have so much more time to inhabit that character and understand.

他有着相同的感受，相同的表现力，我认为他表现得非常出色。

And he's has the same feelings, the same expressiveness, and I thought he just knocked it out of the park.

是啊。

Yeah.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

每次见到他都能让我笑出声。

He makes me laugh every damn time I see him.

他太有趣了。

He's he's so funny.

是啊。

Yeah.

这很奇怪，因为就像你说的，克里斯，他正在延续那段情感旅程。

And it's weird because it's like he's like you say, Chris, he's continuing that emotional journey

没错。

Right.

你一直在参与的那个。

That you've been on.

是啊。

Yeah.

能看到这么多其他人加入并成为其中一员，真是太棒了。

It's great to see all these other people come in and be the others.

对吧？

Right?

因为这能让你真切地感受到这个世界的脉搏。

Because it just gives you, like, the real feel for the world.

用一种奇怪的方式来说，我们是在向你致敬，因为你也同样是他。

In a weird way, we're giving a shout out to you because you're him as well.

没错。

Yes.

众生一体。

All one.