那个让我变美的夏天

本消息来自CBS。《幸存者49》已上线，同时还有由杰夫·普罗斯特主持的《幸存者》官方播客《激情燃烧》新一季。这是唯一能让你深入了解《幸存者》幕后故事的播客。每周三更新，各大播客平台均可收听。

This message comes from CBS. Survivor 49 is here, plus a new season of on fire with Jeff Probst, the official survivor podcast. It's the only podcast that gives you inside access to survivor. New episodes are available every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts.

电视剧《那个夏天》已成为口碑爆款，粉丝们对剧中核心三角恋情节痴迷不已。随着第三季也是最终季接近尾声，是时候剖析这部剧中错综复杂的戏剧冲突，并探讨一部剧集如何负担得起所有泰勒·斯威夫特的音乐版权了。我是史蒂文·汤普森。今天在NPR流行文化欢乐时光节目中，我们将为《那个夏天》大结局预热，并决定我们是康拉德战队还是杰里米亚战队。

The TV series, the summer I turned pretty, has become a word-of-mouth sensation with fans obsessing over the show's central love triangle. As the show approaches the end of its third and final season, it's time to break down some of its messy dramas and explore how one TV show can afford all that Taylor Swift music. I'm Steven Thompson. Today on NPR's pop culture happy hour, we are gearing up for the finale of the summer I turned pretty and determining whether we're team Conrad or team Jeremiah.

本消息来自全球资金管理应用Wise。使用Wise管理资金，您始终享受中间市场汇率，无任何隐藏费用。立即加入数百万用户行列，访问wise.com。条款与条件适用。

This message comes from Wise, the app for using money around the globe. When you manage your money with Wise, you'll always get the mid market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Join millions of customers and visit wise.com. Ts and Cs apply.

您收听《纽约客广播时间》，是为了与您真正想聆听的人物进行深入对话——无论是布鲁斯·斯普林斯汀、奎斯特洛夫、奥利维亚·罗德里戈、利兹·切尼，还是人工智能教父杰弗里·辛顿，亦或是《纽约客》那些学识渊博的同事们。每周请随我们一起，在任意播客平台收听《纽约客广播时间》。

You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really wanna hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

在Radiolab，我们最热衷的就是钻研科学话题——神经科学、化学等等。

At Radiolab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry.

不过我们也同样喜欢

But but we do also like

探索其他类型的故事。关于警务或政治的故事。乡村音乐。冰球。昆虫的性生活。

to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or Politics. Country music. Hockey. Sex of bugs.

无论我们探讨的是科学还是非科学领域，我们都秉持严谨的好奇心，为你寻找答案。

Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers.

并希望能让你以全新的视角看待这个世界。

And hopefully, make you see the world anew.

《电台实验室》，探索认知边缘的冒险之旅。

Radio Lab, adventures on the edge of what we think we know.

无论你在何处收听播客。

Wherever you get your podcasts.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。在《美国生活》节目中，我们讲述真实的生活故事，非常精彩的故事。

I'm Ira Glass. On This American Life, we tell real life stories, really good ones.

我母亲说，很遗憾你当时不在场，因为萨格尔神父来拜访时，他为你找到了一家很好的孤儿院。我说，可我不是孤儿啊。

My mother said, I'm I'm sorry that you weren't here because, father Sager was here visiting, and he found a very nice orphanage for you. And I said, but I'm not an orphan.

惊喜故事尽在你的播客订阅列表，《美国生活》。

Surprising stories in your podcast feed, This American Life.

今天加入我们的是NPR音乐记者Isabella Gomez Sarmiento。你好，Isabella。

Joining us today is NPR music reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Hey, Isabella.

你好，Steven。

Hello, Steven.

有多少人叫你Belly？

How many people call you Belly?

没人这么叫。谢天谢地，

No one. Thankfully,

一个都没有。天啊。

no one. Oh my god.

如果有人这么叫，我会纠正他们。

And I would correct them if they did.

我为你感到高兴。如果这是你想要的，那我也这么想。同时加入我们的还有Slate's icy y m I播客的联合主持人、前《流行文化欢乐时光》制作人Candace Lim。你好，Candace。

I'm happy for you. If that's what you want, that's what I want. Also with us is cohost of Slate's icy y m I podcast and former pop culture happy hour producer, Candace Lim. Hey, Candace.

你好。

Hello.

非常高兴能邀请到两位。这部《我变美的那个夏天》改编自珍妮·汉的畅销三部曲小说。书籍和剧集都讲述了少女贝莉与康拉德、杰里米亚两兄弟共同成长的故事。两个家庭因终生友谊紧密相连，但随着孩子们长大，他们之间的情感纠葛日益复杂，形成可能摧毁多年羁绊的三角恋。罗拉·唐饰演贝莉。

It is a pleasure to have you both here. So the summer I turned pretty is based on a best selling trilogy of books by Jenny Han. Both the books and the TV show tell the story of a young woman named Belly, who's coming of age alongside two brothers named Conrad and Jeremiah. Their families are deeply intertwined by lifelong friendship, but as the kids get older, their romantic entanglements grow increasingly complicated, forming a love triangle that threatens to shatter lifelong bonds. Lola Tung plays Belly.

第三季开始时，她已进入大学并与加文·卡萨莱诺饰演的杰里米亚甜蜜恋爱。克里斯托弗·布里尼饰演的康拉德则远赴他乡追逐成为医生的梦想。但旧情难灭，尤其在贝莉和杰里米亚宣布婚讯后。《我变美的那个夏天》现已在Prime Video上线，值得一提的是亚马逊支持NPR并付费分发我们的部分内容。

As season three begins, she's in college and happily dating Jeremiah, who's played by Gavin Casaleno. Conrad is played by Christopher Briney. He's moved across the country to pursue his dreams of becoming a doctor. But old feelings aren't so easily buried, especially once Belly and Jeremiah announced their plans to get married. The summer I turned pretty is streaming now on Prime Video, and we should mention that Amazon supports NPR and pays to distribute some of our content.

伊莎贝拉，我想先听听你的看法。你觉得《我变美的那个夏天》怎么样？

Isabella, I'm gonna start with you. What do you think of the summer I turned pretty?

不幸的是，我对这部剧着迷得无法自拔。真的完全沉迷了。

Unfortunately, I am obsessed with this show. I am obsessed.

没错。继续说

That's right. Speak on

。我无时无刻不在想这部剧。每周三早上我都像着了魔一样爬起来看新集，然后整周都在刷'康拉德宝贝战队'的混剪视频。所以可以说，我太爱这部剧了。公平地说，我并不是刻意要追这部剧的。

it. I think about it all the time. I wake up possessed on Wednesday mornings to watch the new episode, and then I'm watching team Connie baby edits for the rest of my week. So safe to say, I love this show. And to be fair, I'm not going out of my way to watch this.

算法已经强大到能精准识别了。嗯。我超爱女性笔下那种以渴望为全部存在意义的男性角色。

The algorithm has gotten so powerful that it knows Mhmm. I love a male character written by a woman whose entire purpose is to yearn.

康拉德这季可没少上演渴望的戏码。

Conrad does a lot of yearning this season.

我的抖音算法现在全是康拉德的片段，配着那种榜样励志歌曲，我还挺吃这套的。

My TikTok algorithm, it's just clips of Conrad with, like, role model songs over it, and I quite enjoy it.

他确实把冷笑中带着忧郁的表情练到极致了。

He has definitely perfected sulking while sneering.

嗯。完全同意。

Mhmm. Totally.

这真是天赋异禀。

It is truly a gift.

好吧。

Okay.

所以你是专业级的铁粉，对这节目完全着迷。嗯哼。我们稍后会谈到，但你是康拉德队的。

So you are pro Pro. This show and fully obsessed. Mhmm. And we'll get to this, but you are team Conrad.

我是康妮队的宝贝，确认无误。

I am team Connie baby. Confirmed.

是的。

Yes.

好吧。我以记者身份在此

Alright. I'm here as a journalist

当然。

Of course.

收集信息。

Gathering information.

这是你该做的。

As you should.

Candice Lim，你觉得这部剧怎么样？

Candice Lim, what do you think of the show?

首先，Connie团队必胜，宝贝。别让我开始。好吗？Connie团队，宝贝。记下来。

First off, team Connie, baby. Don't get me started. Alright? Team Connie, baby. Clerk it.

所以我的情况是，我其实在前两季非常抗拒这部剧。我知道它在播，我12岁时就读过原著，但当时并不太喜欢，因为情节总是过于纷乱。但你看，我现在完全沉浸在Jenny Han的宇宙里了。对吧？

And so my situation is that I actually really resisted this show for the first two seasons. I knew it was happening. I actually read the books, like, when I was 12, but I didn't really love them because they were just, like, so much going on all the time. But look, I am in the Jenny Han universe. Right?

从《Exo Kitty》到《致所有我曾爱过的男孩》，我熟悉她的作品。我追第三季不仅因为无聊，更因为第二季积累的狂热氛围。社交媒体上铺天盖地的期待让我觉得——说真的，我现在需要些集体共鸣，需要能让我兴奋、疯狂、甚至能在酒吧和陌生人聊起来的东西，整个夏天我都在经历这种时刻。于是我补完了前两季，现在每周三醒来都会说：今天是‘愤怒诱饵星期三’啊各位。

Exo Kitty, To All the Boys I Loved Before, I'm familiar with her work. I clocked into season three not only because I had nothing better to do, but also because I feel like there was just so much steam coming off season two. This built up anticipation that I was seeing on social media on all of my timelines that I was like, honestly, I could use some community right now. I could use something to get excited about, something to get feral about, something to, like, talk to strangers about at bars, which is something that has happened to me all summer. And so I binge watched the first two seasons, have been watching season three, and I officially wake up every Wednesday going, it's Rage Bait Wednesday, guys.

我早上6点睁眼第一件事就是看更新，看完一整集，懂吗？然后立刻发消息给我朋友。

And what I do first thing in the morning, 6AM, I watch it. I watch the whole thing. Right? Text my friend.

早上6点。

6AM.

我每周三都会参加洛杉矶某酒吧的观剧派对。有个趣闻——这部剧的音乐总监也来过一次，特别可爱。昨晚的派对我也去了。

I have been going to watch parties every single Wednesday at this bar in LA. Fun fact, the music supervisor for the show actually went to one. It was very cute. Went to one last night.

我们稍后会谈到这部剧的音乐部分。

And We will get to the music of this show.

我有

I have

很多问题。

a lot of questions.

那位音乐总监有很多需要解释的事情，比如你从哪儿弄来那么多钱？请继续。

That music supervisor has a lot to answer for, such as where did you get all that money? Go ahead.

我知道。我一直在参加这些观剧派对，和更多人一起重温这部剧，因为大家的反应、人们观看时那种仿佛在看体育赛事般的热情——介于政治辩论和超级碗决赛之间的氛围——实在太有趣了。我认为这实际上是这部剧的特点之一。说实话，比起剧集本身，我其实更爱它的观众和社群。

I know. And I have been going to these watch parties to rewatch it again with more people because the reactions, the way people really watch this like sport in a way that is somewhere between like a political debate and literally like the Super Bowl has been so fun. And I think that is actually one of the things about the show. This is a show where I actually love the audience and community even more than the show. I gotta be honest.

剧集有时会不尽如人意，这没关系。我们继续前行，我们为之痴迷。我想这是因为这部剧不是糖果，它是冰淇淋。

Show, sometimes bad, and that's okay. We move on. We're obsessed. And I think it's because the show is not candy. It is ice cream.

它口感顺滑。你必须正好有那个心情去享用。尝一口就足以让你保持兴趣，而你把它放在冰箱里是有原因的——因为妈妈还会回来吃的。明白吗？

It is smooth. You really have to be in the mood for it. One bite is enough to keep you interested, and you keep it in the freezer for a reason because mommy's going back. Okay?

有些人，比如吃冰淇淋时，需要吃药才能享用。

And there are some people, like with ice cream, who need to take pills in order to consume it.

没错。你说得对，杰里迈亚。开个玩笑。好吧。

Hell yeah. Correct, Jeremiah. Just kidding. Alright.

我来这个节目晚了。也有人可能会说，我不属于这个节目的目标受众，但作为一个音乐人和工作中涉及报道公告牌排行榜的人，我对这个节目运用音乐的方式感到着迷，非常非常激进且资金极其充足。

I'm late to this show. I'm also, some might say, outside of this show's target demographic, though I am as a music guy and as a person who covers the Billboard charts as part of his gig, fascinated by this show's deployment of music, which is very, very aggressive and extremely well funded.

是的。

Yes.

这个节目最引人注目的第一件事就是，几乎每集都有泰勒·斯威夫特。

It's one of the first things that really jumps out about this show is that, like, there's Taylor Swift in almost every episode.

是的。

Yes.

但也有奥利维亚·罗德里戈和哈里·斯泰尔斯的超级热门歌曲。这绝对让人感觉像是2022或2023年左右公告牌排行榜的巅峰时期。嗯。这是意料之中的。任何电视节目的制作总是有一个漫长的准备过程。当我开始看这个节目时，我确实发现自己能立刻投入到那种高戏剧性和低利害关系的混合氛围中。

But there are also huge hits by Olivia Rodrigo and Harry Styles. It definitely feels like the height of the Billboard charts circa 2022 or 2023 Mhmm. Which is to be expected. There's always a kind of a long runway in the making of any TV show. And I definitely found, as I tuned into this show, I was able to kind of immediately lock in to the mix of high drama and low stakes.

嗯。而且，你知道，任何三角恋情节，编剧都不得不设计一些机关来平衡局面。所以可能会看起来一个兄弟遥遥领先于另一个。那么，我们就得给领先的那个兄弟使绊子，让他变得不那么讨喜。所以你看，他们俩就这样不断地来回切换优势。

Mhmm. And, you know, any love triangle, the writer is gonna have to kind of have machinations in order to level the playing field. And so it might seem like one brother is zooming way out ahead of the other brother. Well, we're gonna have to kneecap the brother that's in the lead and make that person much less likable. And so, you know, they're kind of constantly toggling back and forth between the two.

我确实发现自己被深深吸引住了。我想说的是，第一季有七集，那是2022年的事。第二季在2023年，八集。对。而这一季，也就是第三季也是最终季，有11集，而且都很长。

And I did find myself engrossed by it. I will say, and I wanna get your thoughts on this, the first season of this show is seven episodes long, and that was from 2022. The second season from 2023, eight episodes. Yeah. This season, this third and final season is 11 episodes, and they are long.

非常长。嗯。倒数第二集长达71分钟。是的。你觉得这部剧是不是显得太臃肿了？

Very. Mhmm. The penultimate episode of the series is seventy one minutes long. Yes. Does this show feel bloated to you?

绝对是。没错。我得说，因为我小时候也读过坎迪斯的那些书，我大概记得发生了什么，但又不完全记得，毕竟那时我才13岁。

Absolutely. Yeah. I will say, like because I also, like, Candace read the books when I was younger. I kind of have some recollection of what happens, but not entirely because I was, like, 13.

是啊。

Yeah.

有太多情节感觉完全没必要，而且几乎总让人觉得他们把真正关心的内容留到最后，我理解这是为了吊人胃口，想让你猜下周会发生什么。但说实话，有太多角色和故事线我可以直接走开，回来时根本不在乎错过了什么。感觉非常非常臃肿。

There is so much going on that feels so unnecessary, and it almost always feels like they're saving the stuff that you actually care about until the very end, which I understand because they're trying to keep you hooked. They wanna keep you guessing for what's happening next week. But there are so many characters and storylines I frankly could, like, walk away from and return and would just not care about anything that I missed at all. It feels very, very bloated.

没错。卡梅伦·卡梅隆，向他致敬。

Yeah. Cam Cameron, shout out to him.

泰勒妈妈的发廊怎么样？

What about Taylor's mom's hair salon?

天啊。别提露辛达。别提露辛达。

Oh my god. Not the Lucinda. Not the Lucinda.

我不谈论露辛达。

I do not speak of Lucinda.

不，我觉得你是对的，史蒂文。当我和朋友们聊这部剧时，我们经常会说，那一集是填充剧集，那个角色是填充角色。我个人感觉，如果按喜爱程度给各季排名，第三季是我的第一名。

No. I think you're right, Steven. When I talk to my friends about this show, a lot of times we'll go like, that was a filler episode. That was a filler character. I think what I have been feeling personally is that if I were to rank the seasons in terms of how much I love them, season three for me is number one.

我一直很喜欢这一季。我觉得每件事都在推动剧情发展。我爱它。第一季是我的第二选择。第二季，我讨厌。

I've been loving it. I think everything is doing something to move the plot forward. I love it. Season one is my second choice. Season two, I hate.

第二季，我讨厌皮特·哈特，因为第一季和第三季真正讲述的是夏天。我们沉浸其中。第一天，我们抵达卡辛斯。我们在海滩别墅里。我们玩得很开心。

Season two, I hate Pete Hate because h because season one and season three are really about summer. We're living in it. Day one, we land at Cousins. We're in the beach house. We're having a good time.

我们要去泳池。哦，康拉德。剧情发展非常线性。第二季发生了几件事。首先，剧透警告，康拉德和杰里迈亚·费希尔的母亲苏珊娜确实因癌症去世了。

We're going to the pool. Oh, Conrad. And it happens very linearly. Season two, there's a few things that happens. First off, spoiler, Susanna, who is the mother of Conrad and Jeremiah Fisher, she does succumb to cancer and she passes away.

但我们并未目睹她的死亡过程，而是看到人们在事后谈论她。第二季有个特别奇怪的现象——所有重大时刻，我直说吧，比如贝莉和康拉德初次共度良宵，

But we don't watch her die. We watch people talk about her after the fact. And season two, this is really weird thing where all of the biggest moments. This is I'm just gonna say it. Belly and Conrad having their first time.

苏珊娜离世，毕业舞会上导致贝莉与康拉德分手的一系列事件。所有这些重要时刻都通过闪回呈现，感觉就像在听一个经历丰富却对我们守口如瓶的朋友的故事，让我们倍感疏离。

This is Susanna dying. This is everything that happened in prom that led to Belly and Conrad's breakup. All of these big moments happen in flashbacks. And so it almost feels like we're catching up on a friend who clearly has done so much and not told us, and we feel really left out. Right.

某种程度上，这部剧又变成了一场游戏，第二季仿佛成了剧情回顾集。

In a way, the show became a game again where a season two felt like a recap.

嗯。懂？嗯。

Mhmm. Know? Mhmm.

第二季还深陷于房子的归属问题。

Season two is also bogged down in, like, the fate of the house.

房地产法律。他们整天就讨论这个。基拉·塞吉维克，非常感谢你来客串。拿好你的支票回家找凯文吧。

Real estate law. That's all they talked about. Kiera Sedgwick, like, thank you so much for appearing. Take your check and go home to Kevin.

有意思。我意识到，我们聊了这么久这部剧，却始终没回答我究竟支持康拉德阵营还是杰里米亚阵营。

Interesting. I I realized, you know, we've talked about the show this long, and I've I never actually answered the question of whether I am team Conrad or team Jeremiah.

哦。哦，我好害怕。

Oh. Oh, I'm so scared.

让我们知道。我好害怕。所以

Let us know. I'm so scared. So

我站在你这边，你的人生还长着呢。

I am on team you've got your whole life ahead of you.

好吧。有道理。就这么说。

Okay. Valid. And say that.

所以我支持劳蕾尔对吧。劳蕾尔是由杰基·陈饰演的盖莉的妈妈。劳蕾尔绝对是我最能产生共鸣的角色，这也在意料之中。我是从不同世代的角度来看这部剧的。但最终我发现这两个男孩都很无趣。

So I'm on team Laurel Correct. Who is Gelli's mom played by Jackie Chang. Laurel, definitely the character I found myself relating to the most, which, you know, is to be expected. I'm coming into this show, you know, from a different generational perspective. But I eventually just found both of these boys to be total drips.

是的。可能杰里迈亚比康拉德更甚。杰里迈亚是弟弟，但他看起来远没有准备好结婚。

Yes. Probably Jeremiah more than Conrad. Jeremiah is I mean, he's the younger brother, but he is the one who seems far less ready to be married.

是的。

Yes.

而且某种程度上是个更孩子气的大宝宝，呃不，这不对。他俩都是。他只是个更吵闹的宝宝。

And is kind of a bigger baby into well, no. That's not true. They both are. He's a louder baby.

没错。

Right.

他是个尖叫宝宝，而康拉德是个生闷气的宝宝。说得对。

He's a screaming baby, and Conrad is a sulking baby. Correct.

我要说的是，作为观众群体，无论是在线追剧还是参加观影派对，最有趣的莫过于——来聊聊我们刚看的最新一集：贝莉完全融入巴黎的那段。她脱胎换骨了，她成了法国人。这集其实是我本季最爱，当贝莉既没选杰里迈亚也没选康拉德，而是和那个迷人的本尼托热吻时，整个观影现场都疯狂欢呼起来。

I will say, like, one of the funnest things about, like, watching this show as a community both online and, like, going into watch parties is look. Let's talk about the last episode we all watched, which was when Belly is fully in Paris. She has emerged. She's French. The part of the episode, which I really actually thought was my favorite episode of the season, the part of the episode that the entire house just cheered like crazy ding dong ding dong is when Belly chooses neither Jeremiah or Conrad, and she makes out with this very intriguing man named Benito.

嗯。那一刻她真正选择了自我。我认为这恰恰象征了当前讨论的核心，也是这部剧真正的主旨——杰里迈亚战队与康拉德战队的对立。这种对立其实分散了人们对剧集真正意图的注意力，这部剧不是关于他们的，而是关于贝莉的。

Mhmm. And she really, in that moment, kinda chooses herself. And I think that is actually very emblematic of what the discourse is really around and what the show is actually really about, which is team Jeremiah and team Conrad as a conflict. I think it is a distraction from what the show really is trying to do and say, which is this show is not about them. This show is about Belly.

作为观众和评论者，我们感到沮丧的是，三季以来我们不仅看着她迟迟未能'蜕变'，还不断目睹她做出违背自我选择——那些我们年长者绝不会认同的选择。但这一季的精彩之处在于，我感觉剧情正在完美收束。我喜欢她去巴黎的设定，喜欢现在的走向。虽然听说原著和剧集目前有些分歧...

And the frustration that we feel both as viewers and critics is that we are watching someone for three seasons not only take a long time to finally turn pretty, but we are also watching someone constantly choose not themself or choose the option that us as older people would not want ourselves to choose. And I think in that way, there is something so fiery about this season, which is that I think they're landing the plane. I think I like her going to Paris. I like what's happening. I'm hearing that there are some diversions right now between, like, the book and what happens there and what happens here.

我觉得这既刺激又有趣。因为当年珍妮写原著时是另一个时代——据说角色全是白人，这又是另一个话题了。但现在我们进入了全新领域，我喜欢这种新气象。

And I think that's exciting and kind of interesting because when Jenny first wrote the book way back then, a different time. Apparently, they were all white. That's a whole other thing. But now we're kind of in different territory, and I like that. I like that energy.

我完全同意。作为剧中的主角，贝莉在这系列中的角色发展几乎是最少的。看了这么多小时关于她的生活，我们对她的了解却少得可怜。看着她整个人格都围绕着这两个男孩转，真是令人沮丧。而且他们还是兄弟。

I agree completely. I feel like for a protagonist of a show, Belly has had the least character development of almost anyone in these series. And I feel like we know very little about her to have watched this many hours of her life. And it's been so frustrating to watch her entire personality revolve around these two boys. I mean, also the fact that they're brothers.

我们甚至都不想讨论这一点。这确实挺疯狂的。

We're not even gonna get into that. That is quite crazy.

而且他们从小就认识，怎么会不觉得他们像表兄弟或继兄弟呢？不过，你继续说吧。

And the fact that they've all known each other since early childhood, which how would they not seem like cousins or stepbrothers to you? But anyway, go ahead.

没错，我同意。在我眼里，他们都是一家人，整件事都很奇怪。不过，这三季以来，我一直在等贝莉：一是发展出个性，二是考虑点除了这两个男人以外的事情。这也是为什么我喜欢巴黎那一集。当她告诉新欢他得离开，因为她想第一次独自睡在自己的床上和公寓里时，我简直爱死了。

Exactly. I agree. In my mind, they're all related, and this whole thing is weird. However, I've been waiting for Belly to, a, develop a personality, and, b, think about anything other than these two men for all three seasons, which is why I've also I love the Paris episode. I loved when she told her new hot fling that he needed to leave because she wanted to sleep in her bed and her apartment alone for the first time.

那真是

That was

实际上非常感人。巴黎集里我喜欢的另一点是，虽然全剧对贝莉的着装有很多批评，比如她的时尚感、总穿流行款、衣服有时不合身等问题。

actually, like, so moving. And I do think something I loved about the Paris episode. I think there's been a lot of criticism throughout the show of how they dress Belly. I think there's been a lot of, like, comments on her fashion, the fact that it feels like she's just dressing the trends. Sometimes the clothes fit her a little bit strange.

整部剧里她的穿搭总有些违和感。但这集她有了修饰脸型的层次发型，涂着口红，衣着明显成熟多了。你能看到她通过各种方式寻找自我认同，不仅是决策上，还包括她向世界呈现的形象。

Like, something has been a little bit off about the way that she's dressed for most of the show. And this episode, she has, like, face framing layers. She's wearing lipstick. Her clothes are significantly more grown up. Like, you see that she's finding herself reflected in all of these different ways, not just in her decisions, but, like, how she's presenting herself to the world.

而且，我真的很感激剧中并没有把她塑造成在巴黎纵情享乐、一切顺遂完美的形象。她其实也在经历一些挣扎。这种成长对这个角色至关重要，因为我们之前从未在她身上看到过这样的发展。

And also, I really appreciated that she's not just, like, having a blast and everything's easy and perfect for her in Paris. She's, like, struggling a little bit. And that growth is so important to this character that, like, we haven't seen that for her at all.

我认为你们俩都触及了这个故事真正重要的内核。这也是为什么我如此赞同必须让她去巴黎、约会这两个活宝之外的其他人——尽管由27岁左右的演员扮演，我还是坚持称康拉德和杰里米为男孩——他们代表着她童年时期的理想化幻象。嗯。他们象征着一种潜意识甚至可能是刻意为之的决定，即固守你始终熟悉的事物。虽然或许可能，但这条路会非常、非常漫长。

I think you've both touched on something that's really, really important about the story. And why I I agree with you so wholeheartedly that it's so important to get her to Paris and dating somebody other than one of these two jokers is what these two boys, and I'm going to keep calling them boys even though they're played by, like, 27 year olds, whatever, that Conrad and Jeremiah represent idealized visions from her childhood. Mhmm. They represent a subconscious and maybe even conscious decision to cling to what you have always known. And you cannot maybe you can, but it is a long, long road.

当你的生活始终扎根于童年时，想要过真正充实的人生是非常非常困难的。你性格中某些部分注定无法成长发展。因此在这个系列的大部分时间里，她把世界看作这两个DNA相同的男人之间的二元选择。

It's very, very hard to live, like, a fully realized life when everything stays rooted in your childhood. There are just going to be parts of you that don't grow and develop. And so the fact that for so much of this series, she views the world as a binary choice between these two guys who are so similar, they share DNA.

确实。

Yeah.

你需要走出去结识其他人，弄清楚自己真正想要什么。是的。

And, like, you need to get out and meet other people and find out what you want. Yeah.

没错，百分之百同意。从这个角度说，这部剧总让我想起另一部同样在北卡罗来纳州威尔明顿拍摄的三角恋青春剧——《篮球兄弟》。

Yeah. A 100%. And in that way, I mean, this show always reminds me of another love triangle teen drama also filmed in Wilmington, North Carolina, which is One Tree Hill.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。我认为推动这部剧前进的很大一部分动力也在于这些角色最终都离开了。即使我们没有看到他们远行，比如，他们最终还是会回到这个地方，我相信贝莉在某个时刻也会重返卡辛斯。但是，是的，我认为走出去，看看世界，遇见其他人，成为独立的个体，这些元素在剧中长期缺失。现在终于能看到这些，真是令人耳目一新。

Yeah. And I think so much of what propelled that show forward was also when all these characters finally leave. Even if we don't see them far away and, like, they eventually do return to this place, which I'm sure will maybe see a return to Cousins for Belly at some point. But, yeah, I think the, like, going out, seeing the world, meeting other people, becoming your own person has been really missing for so much of the show. And it's so refreshing that we finally are getting to see that.

没错。这部剧早就需要一段‘放风期’了

Yeah. This show has needed a rumspringa for a

嗯哼。

while. Mhmm.

苏珊娜的做法让我觉得有种近乎乱伦的感觉，她像是在说，贝莉，我为你培养了我的儿子们。我给你提供了最佳选择，然后她去世了，留下话说，你们自己解决吧。但现在想想，这部剧其实甚至不是关于贝莉的，而是关于贝莉可能成为什么样的人。在我们理想的世界里，我们支持的那个版本的她，会成为她生命中的劳蕾尔，成为她生命中的苏珊娜。

There is something very incestuous about the way that Susannah to me was very like, I made my boys for you, Belly. I have presented you the best option, and then she dies, and then she's like, you figure it out. But yeah. I think that actually, now that I think about it, the show is also not even about Belly. It's really about what Belly could become, which in our perfect world, the person we root for, the version of her we want her to be is the Laurel of her life, is the Susannah of her life.

再一次，康拉德和杰里米亚不是重点，但我们就是爱讨论他们。

And once again, Conrad and Jeremiah, it's not about them, but we love to talk about them.

我确实认为整部剧中最伟大的爱情故事是劳蕾尔和苏珊娜的。有时我为没能看到更多劳蕾尔的悲伤而感到遗憾，因为我看到一个TikTok上说，她们灵魂契合得如此之深，以至于把这种特质传给了她们的孩子。

I do think the biggest love story in this entire show is Laurel and Susanna. And I'm sometimes sad we don't get to see more of Laurel's grief because I saw a TikTok that was, like, they soul mated so hard, they passed it down to their kids.

而我

And I

就像，是的。那确实很准确。总是他们的问题。而且，那种后果，我希望能看到更多展现，不过可能不是节目的重点吧。

was like, yeah. That is really accurate. Like, it was always them. And, like, the fallout of that, I wish we saw more of, but not the point of the show, I guess.

我想也是。最后一个问题想请教的是关于节目音乐的整体运用，因为音乐某种意义上也是剧中的角色。我的意思是，泰勒·斯威夫特简直像是剧里的常驻角色，用了那么多她的歌。你们二位怎么看待这部剧使用音乐的方式？

I guess. One last question that I wanted to ask is just in general about the music because the music is, in a way, a character on the show. I mean, it's almost like Taylor Swift is a character on the show. There are so many Taylor Swift songs. Where do you two come down on the way this show deploys music?

因为尽管音乐预算庞大，但有时这些音乐和《爱情盲选》里一样直白到令人尴尬。

Because in its own way, as colossal as its music budget is, the music can be as on the nose as the music in Love Is Blind.

确实。

Yeah.

比如，哦，他和一个叫莱西的角色睡了，接着就响起奥利维亚·罗德里戈的《莱西》，唱她如何嫉妒名叫莱西的女人。

Where, like, oh, he slept with a character named Lacey. Now we're going to hear Olivia Rodrigo's song Lacey about how she's jealous of a woman named Lacey.

太刻意了。

It's too much.

你们有没有觉得，可能这节目的音乐预算实在高得离谱？

Did you ever find, like, maybe this show has too big a music budget?

确实如此。我大多讨厌节目中的音乐。那些刻意插入的配乐常让我忍不住呻吟，因为它们太过直白。我觉得，怎么说呢，我真心相信音乐和电影应该是发现音乐的途径。

Absolutely. I mostly hate the music on the show. I often find myself groaning at the needle drops because they're too on the nose. And I think, like, I don't know. I really believe in music and film being a a way to discover music.

有时在我看来，当杰里迈亚和贝莉初吻时播放Tyler the Creator的《Are We Still Friends》，这种处理显得有点偷懒。天啊，这也太明显了。我认为音乐本身应该有所作为，而不是仅仅强化我们已经在角色对话中看到听到的内容。而这部剧在历史上经常做不到这一点，我觉得这些音乐大多令人烦躁。

And sometimes to me, it feels a little bit lazy that it's just like Jeremiah and Belly kissing for the first time and are we still friends by Tyler the Creator starts playing. Like Oh my god. It's just a little too obvious. And I feel like the music has to actually do something for itself other than reinforce what we're already seeing and hearing the characters say to each other. And it to me, historically, the show has failed to do that a lot, and I find the music to be mostly annoying.

没错。但不得不说第三季有些时刻的配乐我很欣赏。比如康拉德和贝莉那段《False God》，天啊，太棒了。还有桃子场景里的《Wild Horses》。

Yeah. But I will say there have been moments, especially in season three, that I've appreciated the needle drops. I mean, the false god with Conrad and Belly, like Oh my god. That was great. The wild horses during the peach scene.

嗯。特别是那集，我觉得引入滚石乐队这些经典老歌来衬托贝莉和康拉德的故事线很有趣，试图把他们的爱情塑造成近乎永恒的存在，而不是像杰里迈亚和贝莉那样用音乐表现当下青春感。所以确实有些有趣的决策，但总体而言，我觉得音乐铺天盖地。而且切换太快，有些场景刚插入配乐，一句台词后就又切新歌。

Mhmm. That episode in particular, I feel like it did something really interesting bringing in the Rolling Stones and all of this older music to the Belly Conrad storyline and trying to frame their love as, like, timeless almost rather than, like, present and, like, youthful as it does with the music with Jeremiah and Belly. So, like, there are interesting decisions, but overall, I find the music to be completely overwhelming. And also, it moves too fast. I feel like there have been moments where it's like needle drop, one line, another needle drop.

我觉得音乐的节奏控制非常令人抓狂。

Like, the pacing of the music I find to be very frustrating.

音乐能提升剧情张力。但这剧整体格局太小。这女孩不过是想去巴黎而已。

Music can turn the stakes up. This show in general, the low stakes. This girl is just trying to go to Paris.

这些人最后都会没事的。

All these people will be fine.

绝对地，他们会去找表亲们，然后离开表亲们，而我们都是表亲。但我认为这节目，某种程度上是拉动它的引擎。就像它试图在你开始分心、即将走神的那些瞬间，依然吸引你的注意力。他们会喊，泰勒·斯威夫特，泰勒·斯威夫特。我想这就是人们观看的原因——公平地说，当我重看这节目时，我会让它一直开着，就像背景电视一样。

Absolute they're going to go to cousins and they're gonna leave cousins and we're all cousins. But I think the show, that's kind of the engine that it pulls. It's like it's trying to tune you in even in those seconds when you lose out and you're like starting to fade. They're like, Taylor Swift, Taylor Swift. And I think that's why people watch I mean, to be fair, when I rewatch the show, I leave it on my, like, TV.

我就让它放着。有时我会转过头去，因为我会想，天啊。他们刚刚放了什么？

I just let it go. And sometimes I will, like, turn my head because I'm like, oh my god. They just played the what?

泰勒·斯威夫特的歌。然后我就想，

By Taylor Swift. And I'm like,

跳舞时刻。继续回去工作。

dance moment. Continue back to work.

我对这节目运用音乐的方式真是又爱又恨。没错。但与此同时，有时它确实很有效。如果你只是想沉浸式体验，了解人们真正在听什么，这是个好方法。我觉得亚马逊的设定方式非常有趣。

I have such a love hate relationship with the way that this show deploys music. Yeah. But at the same time, sometimes it's really effective. And if you were just, like, looking to marinate in, you know, like, what people are actually listening to, this is a good way to do it. I do think it's fascinating the way that Amazon is set up.

你知道吗？因为这节目在亚马逊Prime上播出。当你暂停时，不仅有机会购买商品，还会看到比如，饰演这个场景角色的演员是谁，现在播放的歌曲是什么。所以有这么多音乐插播，能暂停一下然后想，等等，这挺不错的。

You know? Because this show airs on Amazon Prime. And when you pause it, you know, you not only have the opportunity to buy products, but you'll get like, here's the actor who played the character that's in this scene. Here's the song that is playing right now. And so there are so many needle drops that it's nice to be able to kinda pause and be like, wait.

这是谁？这节目的原声带专辑可能得有二十小时长。

Who is this? A soundtrack album for this show would be like a twenty hour.

哦，没错。哦，没错。所以我一直在思考和四处询问，试图弄清楚为什么这个夏天，2025年，成为了这部剧真正爆红的原因，形成了全天候全年无休的康拉德队与杰里米亚队阵营之争，尤其是在网络上。我有两点想法，也请务必分享你的理论。

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So I've been thinking a lot and asking around trying to figure out why this summer, the 2025, is the reason that, like, this show has really exploded into this, like, team Conrad, team Jeremiah, twenty four seven three sixty five sphere, especially online. I have two thoughts and definitely give me your theories as well. Yeah.

首先我在想，作为被流行文化媒体浸染的社会，我们是否从未对爱情三角关系题材真正感到满足。第一点在于——这是否是我们能接触到最接近《挑战者》的作品？（我依然爱那部电影）又或是今年初夏上映的《物质主义者》未能让我们满意，于是想把那份热情转移到别处？我还在思考，这部剧是否以某种方式呈现了康拉德和杰里米亚作为无选举、无政治色彩的候选人，某种程度上让我联想到《美国偶像》——无论大卫·库克还是大卫·阿楚雷塔获胜，两人都会签下唱片合约，但本质上不会改变我们国家的格局。

My first is just that I wonder if the love triangle is something that as a pop culture media infested society, we haven't fully felt satisfied with. The first being like, is it that this is the closest thing we have to Challengers, a movie I still love? Is it that Materialist, which came out earlier this summer, did that leave us unsatisfied and we just wanted to take that energy and, like, put it somewhere else? I've been thinking a little bit about, is it possible that this is a show that kind of posits two people, Conrad and Jeremiah, like candidates with no election, with no politics to it in a way that I actually compare a lot to American Idol, where, you know, it didn't really matter if David Cook or David Archuleta won. Both of them would walk with a record deal, but also they wouldn't necessarily change the state of our country.

类似地，康拉德和杰里米亚就像活在我亚马逊Prime账户的盒子里。无论他们做什么，无论贝莉做什么，其实甚至不由我决定。观众失去了主动权，因为剧集早已写好、拍完、制作完成，只会按照既定内容更新。

And I think in a similar way, like Conrad and Jeremiah, they live inside this box called my Amazon Prime account. And no matter what they do, no matter what Belly does, it's not even actually up to me. There is a loss of agency from the audience because the show is written. The show is made. The show is done, and it's gonna upload what it uploads.

我正思考这点时，又意识到当前电视圈充斥着大量高深内容，比如《熊家餐馆》、《人生切割术》、《最后生还者》，这些剧集几乎吸走了所有关注度。

And so I was thinking about that. But then I was also thinking about the fact that, like, is it possible that right now the TV landscape is really flooded with a lot of, like, highbrow stuff. Right? Like, Bear, Severance, The Last of Us. Those are shows that really take up the oxygen.

有没有可能这部剧的吸引力在于它像欢乐时光？你可以毫无准备地加入，不需要深究背景故事，不必混迹论坛。在这个夏天、这一年，能有一部每周更新的剧集作为大众聚集的基准点，确实让人感到慰藉。

Is it possible that the show has a gravitational pull because it feels like happy hour? Like, you can walk in, not be prepared. You don't need to be deeply informed on the lore. You don't need to be in the subreddits. There is something very calming in this time, in this summer, in this year of, like, having a show that's a weekly drop that has this baseline for everyone to kind of congregate around.

更不用说那些TikTok视频——伊莎贝拉，我和你在同个时间线上，亲爱的，那些内容根本停不下来。我无时无刻不在想它，它持续喂养着我，却永远填不满我。嗯哼。

And then on top of that, the TikToks, which Isabella, I'm on the same timeline as you, babes, where just it never stops. I think about it all the time. And it feeds me in a way where I am not full, you know? Mhmm.

我认为逃避现实是其中关键因素

I think the escapism is a huge part of

是啊。

it. Yeah.

我认为这段三角恋极具竞争性的本质，虽然不想过度解读，但康拉德和杰里米亚所展现的不同男性气质，确实让人着迷——你投入其中并为某个人加油的感觉。不过说到底，它并没有那么深刻，也没有对资本主义、劳工制度等现实世界的大议题做出宏大评论。就像《艾米丽在巴黎》，轻松无脑的欢乐时光，

I think the very competitive nature of the love triangle, and not to get too deep into it, but the different kinds of masculinity that Conrad and Jeremiah presents, I think is something that like, it's just really compelling to like, have this thing that you're invested in and you're cheering for someone. But, yeah, it's just, like, not that deep. And it's not, like, making this huge commentary on capitalism and labor and all of these bigger things that, that's the real world, you know? It's kind of like Emily in Paris, smooth brain, happy hour, like

没错。

Right.

我只想打开这个关于穿着漂亮衣服的女孩和这两个男孩的小节目。说实话，我看不出这个剧能有什么好结局，因为兄弟反目这种事基本没有挽回余地。我知道这很病态，但我就是无法移开视线。

I just wanna turn on the little show about the girl wearing the little outfits and these boys. And honestly, I don't see how this show can end well because to me, like, the brothers of it all is just, like, there's no bouncing back from that. I know. It's toxic, but, like, I can't look away.

对我来说，可以用四个字概括：戏剧性强，无关紧要。

For my part, I just boil it down to four words, high drama, low stakes.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

好的。我们想听听大家对《那个夏天》的看法，请到facebook.com/pchh找我们。节目到此结束，感谢坎迪斯·林和伊莎贝拉·戈麦斯·萨尔米恩托的参与。

Alright. Well, we wanna know what you think about the summer I turned pretty. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh. That brings us to the end of our show. Candice Lim, Isabella Gomez Sarmiento, thanks so much for being here.

谢谢。感谢这个

Thank you. Thank This

本期节目由卡莉·鲁宾、利兹·梅茨格和迈克·卡特塞夫制作，由我们的节目统筹杰西卡·里迪编辑。Hello Come In 提供了我们的主题音乐。还有一件事。最近很多听众询问如何支持我们的节目，有一个超级简单、完全免费的方法，只需两分钟。

episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Liz Metzger, and Mike Katsef, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. One more thing. These days, a lot of listeners are asking us how they can support the show, and there is a super easy, totally free thing you can do. It takes literally two minutes.

打开你正在收听本节目的播客应用，给节目评分并写评论。就这样。这样做能帮助更多人发现《流行文化欢乐时光》，让我们继续前行。非常感谢您收听 NPR 的《流行文化欢乐时光》。

Go into the podcast app where you're listening to right now and rate and review this show. That's it. Doing that helps other people find pop culture happy hour. That helps us keep going. Thank you so much for listening to pop culture happy hour from NPR.

我是史蒂文·汤普森，我们下次见。

I'm Steven Thompson, and we will see you all next time.

联邦政府停摆了。立法者们在争论什么？这对你意味着什么？《MTR 政治政治播客》为您解读一切，每日提供最新动态和新闻，让您保持信息畅通。NPR 政治播客，每日收听。

The federal government has shut down. What are lawmakers arguing about, and what does it mean for you? The MTR Politics Politics Podcast is here to make sense of it all, giving you updates and news every day to keep you informed. The NPR Politics Podcast. Listen every day.

你知道吗，我不得不问。面对这源源不断的可销售内容，你认为泰勒·斯威夫特是在剥削她的粉丝吗？不。

You know, I have to ask. With this endless stream of sellable content, do you think Taylor Swift is exploiting her fans? No.

我要说‘是的，但有个星号备注’。每位流行明星都在某种程度上利用粉丝。

I'm gonna say yes with an asterisk. Every pop star exploits their fans.

泰勒·斯威夫特是在利用她的粉丝，还是在滋养他们？请收听NPR应用或其他播客平台上的节目。

Is Taylor Swift exploiting her fans, or is she feeding them? Listen to it's been a

一分钟的节目，在NPR应用或你获取播客的任何地方。

minute on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

在NPR的《Throughline》播客中，探讨报道战争所需付出的代价。

On the Throughline podcast from NPR, what it takes to report on war.

严重的睡眠剥夺。毫无隐私可言。

Great sleep deprivation. There's no privacy.

你知道，我能坚持

You know, how far can

到何种程度？当记者被噤声，真相将与他们一同被埋葬。请在NPR应用或你获取播客的地方收听《Throughline》。

I go with this? When journalists are silenced, the truth is gonna be buried with them. Listen to Throughline in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.