太空繁荣才刚刚开始

说到家装改造，再有经验的DIY爱好者也有自己的界限。

When it comes to home improvement, even the most experienced DIYer has a limit.

我可不会拿着喷灯把管道烤热，然后焊铜管、接管道这些活儿。

I'm not going to come in here with the blowtorch and get it hot and solder and put the copper pipes to cop.

这活儿我真不干。

I'm not doing it.

我请了个特别靠谱的人来处理。

I called a very nice man to handle it.

什么时候该自己动手，什么时候该找专家。

When to call the experts and when to do it yourself.

本周《给我讲明白》就聊到这里。

That's this week on explain it to me.

新节目每周日上线，各大播客平台都能找到。

Find new episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎来到《预言市场》创始人系列。

Welcome to the Prophecy Markets Founder Series.

我是埃德·埃尔森。

I'm Ed Elson.

到2035年，全球太空经济预计将达到1.8万亿美元。

The global space economy is projected to reach $1,800,000,000,000 by 2035.

曾经由政府主导的行业，正迅速成长为全球最重要的商业市场之一，深刻影响着国家安全、通信、科学发现和国防等方方面面。

What was once an industry dominated by governments is rapidly becoming one of the most important commercial markets in the world, shaping everything from national security and communications to scientific discovery and defense.

我接下来的这位嘉宾，正是这场变革核心企业的缔造者。

My next guest has built one of the leading companies at the center of that transformation.

这家公司最初专注于降低小型卫星发射成本并提高发射频率，如今已发展成一家完整的太空系统企业。

What began as a company focused on lowering the cost and increasing the frequency of small satellite launches has evolved into a full scale space systems business.

如今，这家公司设计卫星、制造航天器部件，并提供发射服务，正在塑造商业航天业的未来。

Today, the company designs satellites, builds spacecraft components and provides launch services that are helping shape the future of the commercial space industry.

上个季度，公司营收超过2亿美元，订单 backlog 已增长至约22亿美元，已成为太空领域最具影响力的巨头之一。

With more than $200,000,000 in revenue last quarter and a backlog that has grown to roughly $2,200,000,000 the company has emerged as one of the biggest players in the future of space.

接下来是我的对话，嘉宾是火箭实验室的创始人兼首席执行官彼得·贝克爵士。

This is my conversation with Sir Peter Beck, the founder and CEO of Rocket Lab.

彼得，非常感谢你参加我们的节目。

Peter, thank you so much for joining us on the show.

为了开场，我觉得先说清楚火箭实验室到底是做什么的，会很有帮助。

I think what would be helpful to get started here is an explanation of what Rocket Lab actually does.

你显然在做太空相关的事，但太空行业里涉及的业务种类太多了。

Clearly, you're in the business of space, but there are lots of different things, that are involved in the space industry.

那么，火箭实验室具体做些什么呢？

So what is Rocket Lab doing?

你们提供哪些服务？

What services are you providing?

谢谢你的介绍，埃德。

Well, thanks very much, Ed.

顺便说一句，你刚才的介绍非常精彩。

I think you did a fantastic introduction, by the way.

其实你已经说得差不多了，不过……

There's not not much more to be said, but

到这里就行。

Cut it there.

好了。

Done.

采访结束了。

Interview over.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

搞定。

Done.

明白。

Yeah.

我们可以开始了。

We're we're good to go.

不行。

No.

我的意思是，我们真正想打造的是一个端到端的太空公司。

I mean so what what we're really trying to build here is an end to end space company.

也就是说，直接从太空提供服务，以及所有相关的底层环节。

So what that means is that, you know, providing services directly from space and everything below that.

你刚才提到了发射。

You you mentioned launch.

发射显然是进入太空的关键，是通往太空的运输方式。

Obviously, launch is is, you know, the keys to space and and the the ride to space.

而卫星则是提供这些服务的系统。

And then satellites are are obviously, you know, the systems that provide the services.

再往上一层，最终真正重要的是来自太空的服务本身。

And then, you know, ultimately, if you go up one level higher, it's actually the services from space.

我们的观点是，如果你能自己制造卫星，把所有零部件都垂直整合，再把发射也自己掌控，那你就比那些得从你或其他公司采购这些设备的人更有优势，能更高效地提供太空服务。

And our thesis here is that, you know, if you can build the satellites and, you know, vertically integrate all of your own components and then vertically integrate your own launch, then your ability to provide services from space is is obviously an advantage to somebody who has to go and buy all that stuff either from you or others.

所以，这其实就是公司的最终目标，我们正一步一个脚印，稳扎稳打地朝着它推进。

So, you know, that that's that's kind of the end goal for the company and we're sort of methodically, you know, step after step pushing towards that.

正如你提到的，我们现在已经是航天领域最大的零部件供应商之一。

And, you know, as as you mentioned, you know, now we are one of the largest component suppliers in the space industry.

去年所有进入太空的设备里，大概有三成都贴着火箭实验室的标志，我们从卫星、航天器到火箭，还有中间所有部件，全都是自己造的。

Think something like 30% of everything that went to space last year had a Rocket Lab logo on it somewhere, and, you know, we build the satellites and the spacecraft and the rockets and and everything everything in between.

为了帮听众里对航天不太了解的人更好地理解，我补充一点背景。

Just some more context for the space virgins listening to, to his podcast.

都有哪些公司会买你们的产品？

What kinds of companies are buying your products?

比如说，什么样的公司会去买火箭部件或者卫星？

Like, what kind of company would buy a a rocket component or a satellite?

这些客户到底是谁？

Who are those clients?

他们的范围覆盖了整个光谱。

They range from the full end of the spectrum.

在发射方面，我们为一群加州的高中发射了一颗小型立方星。

So on on the launch side, we have launched a little CubeSat for a bunch of Californian high schools.

同时，通过同样的发射服务，我们也执行了对国家安全至关重要的任务，这些任务关系到人的生命安全。

And then we also, with the, you know, with the same product launch, the most important national security missions where lives are dependent on it.

所以，这正是这个行业的魅力所在——航天领域覆盖了极其广泛的应用场景。

So, you know, that that's kind of the beauty of the business is that, you know, and and of the space industry is that it it really does cover a tremendous swath of of different applications.

总的来说，我们大约一半的业务来自商业客户，另一半来自政府机构。

But I would say that, you know, more generally 50% of our business is commercial and 50% of our business is government.

在商业领域，主要是地球观测和通信服务。

And, you know, on the commercial side, it's earth observation and communications.

而在政府方面，则包括国家安全任务，还有民用项目。

And then on the government side, it's it's national security missions, and then also civil stuff.

我们最近刚建造了几艘航天器，现在已经启程前往火星，是为NASA做的。

So, you know, we built a couple of spacecraft just recently, and they're on their way to Mars for NASA.

各种有意思的事情都有。

So all sorts of interesting things.

我觉得把这个行业里的不同类别分开来看会更有帮助。

It's helpful, I think, to sort of separate the different categories in this business.

我们通常只把太空当成一个整体，但实际上它包含了很多不同的应用，各种公司做的事儿也截然不同。

We usually just think of space as space, but it seems that there are so many different applications and so many different businesses that are accomplishing very different things.

如果你能简单梳理一下这些领域都有哪些，我会非常感激。

If it would be I'd love if you could just sort of lay out what some of those businesses are.

一方面，我们已经谈过卫星，卫星对通信和政府任务来说都是必不可少的。

I mean, on the one hand, we've we've discussed satellites, and, of course, satellites are essential for telecommunications, and also government work.

我们还想探索行星，这就需要有人把设备送入太空，把它们送到目的地。

We wanna go explore planets, and you need someone to go lift that stuff into space and get that stuff out there.

目前太空行业中最重要的商业领域有哪些？

What are some of the most important businesses in the space industry right now?

也许我们可以从一个更高的角度来看，太空本质上其实是一种基础设施。

Maybe we start a little bit higher up in in the fact that space is just infrastructure really.

这种基础设施有点特别，因为它完全看不见摸不着。

And it's a it's it's slightly unusual infrastructure in the fact that it's it's completely hidden.

你跟人聊起来，他们经常说：‘太空那玩意儿全是科幻片里的东西，跟我没关系。’

And, you know, you often talk to folks and and, you know, they'll say, wow, this this space stuff, you know, it's all sci fi, it doesn't affect me.

可等他们回家点个披萨，披萨居然神奇地送到了家门口。

And and then, you know, they'll go home and and order a pizza and the pizza turns up at their house magically.

他们根本不知道，点这份披萨的时候，可能已经跟太空系统打过交道了——靠的是卫星通信。

And, you know, they don't realize that in ordering that ordering that pizza, they they they may have interfaced with, you know, with space to to to make their communication.

但至少可以肯定，他们已经跟太空有了联系，因为送披萨的司机是靠GPS找到他们家的。

But certainly, they've they've they've kind of interfaced with space because the guy delivering their pizza has used GPS to get there.

轨道上其实有大量基础设施，不管是GPS、通信还是遥感观测，大家每天都在用，只是根本没意识到。

And so it's there's a whole bunch of infrastructure in orbit whether it be GPS or communications or observations that everybody uses in their everyday lives but just sort of doesn't realize it.

如果要简单分类的话，最基础的就是地球观测，涵盖可见光、不可见光，还有无线电频段等等。

And, you know, I think if you wanna break it down into the to the most, you know, simplest forms, you have you have Earth observation and that can cover all different spectrums whether it's visible light or non visible light or RF.

对普通家庭来说，这说白了就是天气预报。

And those are the that, you know, for for mom and dad at home, that's like weather.

那怎么才能获得卫星天气信息呢？

So how do I get, you know, satellite weather?

这其实很明显，对吧？

Is is you know, that's it's a it's it's an obvious one.

然后是通信，GPS也属于这一类。我现在坐在新西兰这儿，

And then communications, you know, GPS falls under that and then, you know, the probably you know, I'm sitting down here in New Zealand now.

你可能在世界上的其他地方，你们之间的连接很可能就是通过太空实现的。

You're you're somewhere else around the world and there's probably probably some of that link is done through space.

所以通信显然是一个非常重要的部分。

So, you know, communications is obviously a huge element.

但我认为，太空中最重要、最值得去做的事，目前还没人想到过。

But what I would say is that, you know, the the biggest thing to be thought of and done in space, I believe, is is is hasn't even been thought of yet.

如果几年前有人跟你说，要把数据中心放到轨道上，大多数人会觉得这根本不可能。

And if you just roll the clock back a couple of years and someone said that you're gonna put data centers in orbit, I think most people would say, that's that doesn't sound that doesn't sound feasible.

但如今，这方面的投入却越来越大。

But yet, you know, there's a huge push there.

再往前推几年，要是有人说太空互联网，像星链或者亚马逊的利奥系统，大家会觉得这纯属科幻，可现在，人人都在用。

And then go back a few more years and you would say, well, you know, Internet from space in the form of like a Starlink or an Amazon Leo would would would be, you know, fictitious and and then now it's like everybody's using that.

从太空直接连接移动设备也是同样的情况。

Same with direct to mobile devices from space.

所以，它一直在不断重新定义自己，随着越来越多的应用场景出现，这也是太空产业快速增长的原因之一。

So, you know, it's it's constantly redefining itself and and as more more use cases arrive, then, you know, that that's one of the reasons why the space industry is just growing so rapidly.

是的。

Yeah.

尤其是近几年，增长的速度真的非常惊人。

The pace of the growth in the in recent years especially is really striking.

你看你们公司火箭实验室的股价就知道了。

Mean, we just look at the stock price of your company Rocket Lab.

过去一年涨了四倍。

It's up 400% in the past year.

其他太空类股票也涨得飞快。

Other space stocks are going crazy.

ASD Space Mobile 涨了两倍多。

ASD Space Mobile up more than 200%.

Viasat涨了600%。

Viasat up, 600%.

我的意思是，现在真是太空领域的高光时刻。

I mean, this is like space's moment.

不过有点让人困惑，皮特，你提到点披萨的时候，其实就是在跟太空设备互动，像你们这样的公司，正是把这类设备送上天的推手。

It's a little confusing though because, you know, you point out, Pete, when you order a pizza, you're interacting with space equipment, and and companies such as yours are the companies that were responsible for getting that kind of equipment out there.

但人们用手机点披萨已经很多年了，那我就想问，为什么偏偏是现在？

But people have been ordering pizzas from a mobile phone for a very long time, which leads me to my question, which is like, why is it now?

为什么现在这些公司突然变得这么有吸引力？

Why why now are these companies so exciting?

过去一两年到底发生了什么，让所有人都突然意识到，太空产业藏着巨大的商业机会？

What has happened in the past one or two years where suddenly everyone is realizing and waking up that there is this massive commercial opportunity in the space industry?

我觉得答案在于，过去太空一直被政府和公共部门主导。

Well, I think the answer to that is that space has been dominated by governments and government sectors.

但过去这十年左右，你看到的是太空彻底走向了平民化。

And what you've witnessed in in the last sort of decade, I would say, is the complete democratization of space.

我们拿GPS做个例子吧。

So let's just use the GPS example.

目前在轨的所有GPS卫星都是政府资产。

So, you know, all those GPS satellites currently up in orbit are government assets.

对吧？

Right?

它们最初是作为军用设备设计的。

I mean, they were they were originally designed as defense assets.

现在，如果你把天上这些卫星全撤下来，从头再来，肯定不会是政府再把它们送上去。

Now, I think if you if you were to take all of those assets out of the sky and start afresh, it wouldn't be governments putting them back up.

100%会是商业公司来做这件事。

It would 100% be commercial entities putting them back up.

我再给你举个例子，就是我们为NASA执行的火星探测任务。

And I'll just give you another example, you know, of our escapade mission to to Mars for NASA.

那些都是航天器。

So, you know, those are spacecraft.

NASA给了我们一份技术规范，说：‘我们想在火星上做这件事。’

NASA gave us a spec and said, look, we we want we wanna do this at Mars.

我们回去后设计并建造了两艘飞船，现在它们正前往火星，完成NASA的任务。

We went away and designed and and built, you know, not one, but two spacecraft that are currently on the way to Mars for, you know, to complete NASA's mission.

以前这种事肯定是NASA内部做的，根本不会交给商业公司。

Prior to that, that would have been a NASA internal project and, you know, it wouldn't have been a commercial thing.

就连深空行星探测任务，现在也逐渐外包给商业公司了。

So even stuff like, you know, deep space interplanetary missions are now, you know, now being outsourced commercially.

一方面，商业市场已经成熟了，另一方面，人才、技术和资金也都到位了，商业公司现在真能干得了这些事。

And, you know, some of that is that, you know, the commercial market is is established itself, but also, you know, the skills and expertise have have been distributed and capital has been allocated so that commercial companies can actually go and do those sorts of things.

我觉得这正好说明了我们为什么想跟你聊，核心就是你的经历。

I think this kinda gets to the heart of why we wanna talk to you, and it's a lot about your story.

你2006年创办这家公司的时候，对还不了解你的人说一句，你来自新西兰。

When you started this company in 2006, for those who haven't recognized it yet, you are from New Zealand.

你几乎是硬生生在一片看似毫无商业机会的土地上，建起了这家公司。

And, I mean, you essentially decided to build a company where there didn't seem to be much commercial opportunity at all.

可现在呢，你公司年收入高达数亿美元，还成了上市公司。

And yet here we are, and you're generating hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, and you're a publicly traded company.

那你当初为什么创办这家公司？又凭什么觉得这真能做成一门赚钱的生意？

So why did you start this company, and why did you believe that this would actually be a real, commercially viable business?

说实话，当时NASA根本不雇我，我也没别的路可走。

Well, I mean, firstly, NASA wouldn't employ me, so I didn't really have too many options.

所以唯一能选的路就是自己创业，而我又刚好住在新西兰。

So the the only the only viable option open to me was to start my own company, and I just happened to live in New Zealand.

如今，火箭实验室已经是一家全球性企业了。

Now Rocket Lab these days is a is a global company.

实际上，公司绝大部分业务都不在新西兰。

In fact, the vast majority of the company is is not not in New Zealand.

当然，新西兰这边还留着一点痕迹，但绝大部分业务都在其他地方。

There's still, you know, an element here for sure, but, you know, the vast majority is everywhere else.

简单来说，我从小就开始折腾火箭了。

But I mean, in in simple forms, you know, I I I started building rockets when I was a kid.

对吧？

Right?

所以这一直都是我想去做的事。

So it was always always something I wanted to go and do.

而且，

And,

你

you

有一年我专门去美国进行了一次火箭朝圣之旅，学到了几件非常重要的事。

know, I went on a bit of a a rocket pilgrimage one year to The United States and and I learned a couple of really important things.

第一，NASA不会雇我。

One, NASA wouldn't employ me.

为什么会这样？

Why is that?

不好意思。

Sorry.

我能问一下，他们为什么不雇你呢？

If I could just ask, why wouldn't they employ you?

是因为你不是美国公民，还是你申请了但没被录取？

Because you weren't a citizen or you applied and they didn't they didn't accept the application?

到底怎么回事？

What happened?

我是个没有大学文凭的外国人，这种条件根本排不上号，对吧？

I'm a foreign national with no university degree, like it's hardly at the top of the list, is it?

不过我还发现另一件事：我去了一趟莫哈维沙漠，参观了几家初创公司，看看他们在做什么，结果发现他们做的事跟我在家做的根本没什么两样。

Know, but the other thing I learned is I went around and looked at a, visited a bunch of the little startup companies in the Mojave Desert and whatnot, and looked at what they were doing, and what they were doing was absolutely no different to what I was doing here at home.

我心想，等等。

So I'm like, hang on a minute.

我和别人之间的差距其实没那么大，那我为什么不干脆自己动手呢？

So there's not a massive gulf between what I'm doing and what everybody else is doing, so maybe I should just do it.

我们所有人都想知道，一个年轻人是怎么决定去造火箭的？你到底是怎么开始的？

I think the question we're all asking is how did a young man end up deciding to build rockets and how do you even do that?

如果我们能多听听这件事是怎么发生的就好了。

If we could hear more about how that ended up happening.

我最早的一些记忆，是和父亲站在外面，他本身也特别热爱天文学。

Some of my youngest memories are are standing outside with my father, and and, you know, he was an avid avid kind of enthusiast in in astronomy as well.

我记得他指着天空告诉我，你看的那些星星，大部分都有行星围绕，而在其中一颗行星上，可能正有人站在那里，回望着你。

And and I remember him pointing out to me that, you know, all those stars in the sky that you can see, most of them have planets around them, and on one of those planets, there could be somebody standing there looking back at you.

那一刻，我突然意识到，太空这件事，远比我想的要宏大得多。

And that that moment for me was like, right, this space thing is is bigger than bigger than anything.

所以，这就是我想做的事。

So this is this is what I want to do.

而且，我天生就对工程方面特别有感觉。

And, you know, I had a natural propensity to engineering.

把这两点结合起来，你还真能去造别的东西吗？不就是火箭吗？

So you mix those two things together and and, you know, what else are you gonna build but rockets?

这几乎是顺理成章的事。

I mean, that's the obvious outcome.

你大概是几岁开始真正动手做火箭的？

At what age did you start actually building rockets?

那时候我还在上学，事情才慢慢变得认真起来。

So I was at school when it sort of got a little bit more serious.

因为金属加工课的老师允许我在午休和周末使用车间。

So because the the metalwork teacher would let me use the metalwork room at lunchtime and the weekends.

那时候我大概十四或十五岁吧。

So, you know, that would have been probably fifteen, fourteen.

所以你在学校午休时间做东西，老师还让你用金属加工室，那后来是什么时候，你真正把这事做成了正经事？

And so you're working at school, at lunch breaks, the guy's letting you use the metal works, and then at what point do you start to really operationalize this?

从一个孩子在技术课教室午休时摆弄工具，到创办一家公司，中间是怎么过渡的？

At what point does this go from a kid using the DT workshop at lunchtime to actually building a company?

这中间其实还有一段故事。

There's a little bit of a, you know, story in between there.

我毕业后去当了模具学徒，本来打算上大学，但你知道，在新西兰根本没什么航空航天专业。

So, you know, I left school and pursued a tool and die making apprenticeship, And, you know, the plan was to go to university, but I I you know, in New Zealand, there's no aerospace courses or anything like that.

我一直觉得，动手做东西能学到特别多，拥有实际操作的能力，能把想造的东西做出来，真的特别关键。

And and I always felt that, you know, I can learn a tremendous amount by by building things, and having those hand skills to to build the things that I wanted to build is really important.

于是我做了工具与模具制造的学徒，那家公司叫费舍尔与派克尔，是做家用电器的。

So I did an apprenticeship in tool and die making and it was at a company called Fisher and Paykel, which it's an appliance whiteware manufacturer.

刚结束学徒期，我就进了设计部，做生产机械的设计，造机器和机器人，后来转到产品设计，再后来做分析工作。

And then, you know, no sooner I finished my apprenticeship, I went into design office and and did production machinery design and designed, you know, machines and robots, and then into product design and then into analysis.

之后我去了一家超级游艇公司，担任项目工程师，负责一艘123英尺的超级游艇。

And then I I went and worked at a superyacht company where I was a project engineer responsible for a 123 foot superyacht.

那段经历对我职业发展影响特别大，早上你得跟车间里的工人有效沟通，有些人甚至不识字。

And that was really, you know, formative part of my career because in the morning, you know, you have to had had to work and communicate effectively with, you know, some some guys on the shop floor who were who were in some cases illiterate.

到了下午，游艇的主人可能开着直升机就来了，你又得能跟他顺畅交流。

And then in the afternoon, you know, the owner of the yacht would fly in on his helicopter and and, you know, you have to have to be able to communicate effectively with with with him as well.

这段经历真的让我学到了很多。

And so that that was super informative.

后来我去了新西兰一家国家级实验室，那是个政府下属的研究机构，我主要研究先进材料和超导体。

And then then I went to a New Zealand national lab, so it's kind of, you know, a a government research lab where I did advanced materials and superconductors.

就是在那里，我学到了很多关于复合材料的知识，我们当时为美洲杯帆船赛做了大量复合材料的工作，还有类似的各种项目。

And that's where I learned a lot about composites, and we did a lot of composites work for America's Cup boats and and all those sorts of things.

就是在那家研究机构工作期间，我去了美国一趟，完成了一次火箭朝圣之旅，回来后就辞了工作，在门口挂了个牌子，那正是火箭实验室的起点。

And it was during my time there at the this research institute that I went over The States and did my Rocket Pilgrimage and and came back and quit quit my job and and put a sign up on the door, and that was the beginning of Rocket Lab.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

本节目由Monarch赞助支持。

Support for the show comes from Monarch.

现在是夏天，很多人都在为度假做准备。

It's summer, and that means a lot of us are gearing up for vacations.

别犯了准备不充分的错误。

Don't make the mistake of not adequately preparing.

不然，等账单来了，你原本完美的假期可能会留下遗憾。

Otherwise, your fantastic getaway could get colored with regret once the bill catches up with you.

用Monarch，让你的出行更顺利。

Set yourself up for success with Monarch.

Monarch

Monarch

是

is

Monarch是一款个人理财应用，能追踪你所有的账户、投资、储蓄目标和支出。

the personal finance app tracks everything, accounts, investments, savings goals, and spending.

现在购买Monarch Core，第一年半价，只要50美元，使用促销码markets即可享受。

Get your first year of Monarch Core for half off, just $50, with promo code markets.

Monarch内置了AI助手，不仅能帮你追踪已经花掉的钱——像大多数理财应用那样，还能做更多。

With Monarch, you get a built in AI assistant that helps you keep track of your finances, not just what you've already spent, which is what most finance tracking apps can do.

Monarch能帮你设定目标、规划大额消费，并提供洞察，比如提醒你支出是否增加，或者通胀让你多花了多少钱。

Monarch helps you set goals, map out big purchases, and provides insights, including noticing when your spending has gone up or how much inflation is costing you.

Monarch甚至能帮你用“AA账单”功能平摊餐费。

Monarch can even help you split the check with bill split.

你只需扫描收据，每个人标记自己点的菜，然后在App里一键结算。

You can just scan the receipt, everyone claims what they got, and they all settle up in Monarch.

前往 monarch.com，使用代码 markets，首年 Monarch Core 仅需 50 美元，五折优惠。

Use code markets at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core at half off at just $50.

前往 monarch.com，使用代码 markets，首年立享五折优惠。

That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code markets.

本节目由 Framer 赞助支持。

Support for the show comes from Framer.

第一印象至关重要。

First impressions matter.

如果你是企业主，网站杂乱无章，就跟去面谈前不洗澡一样糟糕。

And if you're a business owner, then having a messy website is basically the same as not showering before that in person job interview.

好在 Framer 能帮你把企业最出色的部分展现出来。

Thankfully, Framer helps draw off the best parts of your business.

Framer 是一款企业级无代码建站工具，Perplexity 和 Miro 等公司的团队都在用它来提速。

Framer is an enterprise grade, no code website builder used by teams at companies including Perplexity and Miro to move faster.

它支持实时协作，内置强大的 CMS 和完整的 SEO 功能，还有高级分析工具，集成 A/B 测试，让你的设计和市场团队从第一天起就能自主搭建并优化你的网站。

With real time collaboration and robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO, not to mention advanced analytics that include integrated AB testing, Your designers and marketers are empowered to build and maximize your .com from day one.

无论你是想上线一个新网站、测试几个着陆页，还是迁移整个官网，Framer 都为初创公司、成长型企业以及大型企业准备了相应方案，让你从想法到上线变得又简单又快速。

So whether you wanna launch a new site, test a few landing pages, or migrateyourfull .com, Framer has programs for startups, scale ups, and large enterprises to make going from idea to live site as easy and as fast as possible.

想了解更多如何让你的官网发挥更大价值？欢迎访问 framer.com/markets，联系 Framer 专家，或立即免费开始搭建，现在订购 Framer Pro 年度计划可享七折优惠。

Learn how you can get more out of your.com from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/markets for 30% off of Framer Pro annual plan.

访问 framer.com/markets，立享七折优惠。

That's Framer dot com slash markets for 30% off.

framer.com/markets

Framer.com/markets.

具体规则和限制可能适用。

Rules and restrictions may apply.

你好。

Hi.

我是玛丽亚·莎拉波娃，‘坚韧之美’播客的主持人。

I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough podcast.

每期节目，我都会与那些成就卓越的女性深入对话，探讨她们如何毫不歉意地追求卓越。

Each episode, I sit down with high achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology.

这周，模特、《体育画报》封面女郎兼企业家阿什莉·格雷厄姆谈到了她差点放弃的那段经历。

This week, model, Sports Illustrated cover girl, and entrepreneur Ashley Graham talks about the time she almost quit.

我给妈妈打了电话，说：妈，我真的不干了。

I called my mom, and I said, mom, I just not gonna do this anymore.

她告诉我：不行。

And she told me, no.

你得坚持下去。

You are going to stick this out.

你的身体会改变某个人的人生。

Your body is going to change someone's life.

每一个十年，你都会经历不同的事情。

Every decade, you're gonna go through something different.

所以现在就要好好接纳真实的自己，因为一切都会变的。

So be really happy with who you are right now because things change.

收听《Pretty Tough》最新一期

Check out pretty tough, new

每周三更新新一期。

episodes on Wednesdays.

你可以在YouTube上观看，或者用你喜欢的播客应用收听。

You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app.

我们继续邀请彼得·贝克。

We're back with pretty Peter Beck.

那时候要怎么组建一家真正能造火箭的公司呢？

So what does it take to actually build a company at that point to actually that is actually building rockets?

招聘流程是怎样的？

Like, what does the recruitment process look like?

融资过程又是什么样的？

What does the fundraising process look like?

你怎么能让投资者相信，把钱投给你去造火箭上天，他们能赚回来？

Like, how do you convince an investor that they're gonna get their money back by giving you money to build rockets into space?

这没那么简单。

That's that's less trivial.

我们一开始资金很少，完全是靠自己撑起来的。

So, look, we we know we started with a small amount of investment and and really bootstrapped the company.

2009年，我们发射了第一枚火箭，不是入轨，只是飞到了太空，就一枚小火箭。

And we've launched our first rocket to space, not to orbit, just a little rocket to space in 2009.

之后，我跑了很多地方，拜访了美国许多业内人士，他们对我们在这么短时间里取得的成果非常佩服。

And then following that, I went in and visited, know, a lot of a lot of folks in The United States who were very enamored with what we had done on on such a short time frame.

后来我们又多撑了一段时间，接了洛克希德·马丁和DARPA这些国防机构的项目，做了不少前沿技术工作。

And we ended up sort of bootstrapping the company a little bit longer, and we, you know, we worked for Lockheed Martin and and and DARPA Defense Agencies and did lots of kind of really advanced technology kind of work.

一直到2013年，我才真正觉得自己有底气、有能力去造一枚轨道级运载火箭。

And it was it wasn't until 2013 where I really felt that I had the credibility and the capability to to go and build an orbital class vehicle.

于是我飞去硅谷，给自己定了个期限：三周内要么带着投资回来，要么灰头土脸地离开。

So, you know, I got on a plane and went to Silicon Valley and gave myself three weeks to come home with a check or be run out of town.

三周结束时，我们成功拿到了Coastal Ventures的首轮融资。

And at the end of those three weeks, we we had our first series a round in the bag from Coastal Ventures.

当你向硅谷的投资者做演示时，他们当然最关心的是，这生意怎么赚钱。

When you make that pitch to these Silicon Valley investors, I mean, obviously, they're they're trying to figure out how this becomes profitable.

那你的路演具体是怎么说的？

What does that pitch look like?

你是讲现在太空设备的需求，还是在谈几百年后的事？

Are you kind of describing the need for space equipment today, or is it more of a pitch about something, you know, hundreds of years in the future?

那时候你的路演到底是什么样子的？

Like, what does that pitch at that point actually look like?

没人会对一百年后的事感兴趣，尤其是风险投资人。

You know, nobody's interested in anything a hundred years in the future, especially if you're a venture capitalist.

明白了。

K.

但是

But

不，不是这样的。

but but but no.

我的意思是，我当时成功说清楚了这个机会有多大，以及它的潜力。

I mean, I think where I was able to communicate effectively the the opportunity and and and the, you know, the scale of of of that.

而且那时候，小规模的投资开始涌入航天公司。

And and also, you know, it was it was at this time where, you know, small investments were being made into space companies.

比如，红杉资本的文德投资了一家叫Skybox的公司，后来被谷歌以十亿美元收购了。

So, you know, Vinod at Cosa Ventures had invested in a company called Skybox, which, you know, later Google bought for half $1,000,000,000.

所以红杉的那帮人深有体会，他们得从俄罗斯买老式的洲际导弹，发射过程简直痛苦不堪。

So, you know, the Cosa Ventures guys knew the pain of launch because they had to buy an old ICBM out of Russia and and, you know, it was very very painful to launch.

不过说来有趣，我现在回头看当年，我们A轮融资才五百万美元。

And, you know, it's it's funny though because I look at today and then I look back then and and, you know, our series a round was $5,000,000.

那时候，对一家火箭公司来说，这已经是笔巨款了。

And that was considered, you know, a lot of money back then for a rocket company.

可就在前几天，我看到一家火箭公司，连产品都没做出来，就融了两亿美元，估值高达22亿美元。

And then, you know, I saw a rocket company just the other day raise $200,000,000 on a $2,200,000,000 valuation, and they've built nothing.

真是让人感慨，时代真的变了。

And it's like, wow, this is this is how times have changed.

不过话说回来，我们当时融了A轮，我一直做事很直接，说到做到，一切就都顺顺利利的。

But anyway, so we raised that series a, and I've I've always, you know, run run a company and and I'm pretty straightforward and just do what you say you're going to do and everything's fine.

我们确实做到了，很快就完成了B轮融资，接着是C轮，还没反应过来，火箭已经架在发射台上，开始把客户送入轨道，而且干得相当漂亮。

And we did did that and we were able to quickly raise a b round and then a c round and and, you know, before you knew it, we had a rocket on the pad and and, you know, we're we're in orbit and flying customers in a way we win.

你提到那些A轮估值简直离谱，22亿美元，公司连东西都没造出来。

You mentioned some of these insane valuations in these series a rounds, 2,200,000,000 valuation for a company that hasn't actually built anything.

是的。

Yeah.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

确实疯狂。

Just crazy.

但你再看看那些真正动手做产品的公司，它们的估值也高得惊人。

But then also you look at the the the valuations and the pricing on the companies that actually are building things, and the valuations are pretty stunning.

倍数简直吓人，你们公司也不例外。

The multiples are pretty stunning, including on your company.

当然。

Sure.

我觉得航天行业一个值得注意的地方是，到目前为止还没人真正证明它能赚钱。

And one thing that is, I think, notable about the space industry is we haven't really seen it be proven as a profitable business yet.

所以你们公司目前还不盈利。

So your your company isn't profitable.

但大家预期它会盈利，我觉得2028年就能实现。

It's expected to and I say it'll be profitable in 2028.

但我很好奇，对这么多投资者来说，他们到底在图什么？显然背后是有巨大机会的。

But I I'm interested to know what the prize is from a business perspective for a lot of these investors because clearly there there's something out there.

一定有什么巨大的回报，才值得大家给出这么离谱的估值。

There's some prize that's gonna be so great that will warrant these unbelievable valuations that we are seeing.

这个回报到底是什么？十年、二十年后，这个行业会是什么样子？

What is that prize, and what would this business look like, say, ten or twenty years down the line?

是的。

Yeah.

不过我觉得说航天企业完全不能盈利，这话有点苛刻了。

Well, I think I think it's a little bit mean to say that space businesses aren't really profitable.

我的意思是，回看历史，确实有不少航天公司破产了，但也有不少公司一直盈利，这跟估值问题直接相关。

I mean, I think you can look back through history and and and sure that there's there's been plenty of bankruptcies as well, But there's also, you know, been been plenty of profitability in a number of space businesses, you know, to address the valuation kind of element.

说实话，我完全同意。

And look, I completely agree.

有些公司的估值确实完全脱离了现实。

There's there's some valuations that are completely untethered to reality.

但就我们目前的情况来看，全球只有两家公司成功实现了火箭发射的高频次和高可靠性。

But I think, you know, with respect to us, right now, there are two companies on this planet that have successfully scaled launch to any level of frequency and reliability.

那就是SpaceX和我们。

And, you know, that's SpaceX and us.

所以，能够稳定、可靠地进入轨道，这非常罕见。

So, you know, you know, access to orbit on a regular and reliable basis is rare.

简直可以说是极其罕见。

It's like extremely extremely rare.

我当初创办火箭实验室、开始研发电子号火箭的时候，全球有142家公司都在做同样的事。

So, you know, it's it's and and, you know, when I started Rocket Lab and and, you know, when I started developing the the electron class vehicle, at one point, we were tracking a 142 companies trying to do exactly the same thing.

一百四十二家公司。

142 companies.

那这一百四十二家公司现在都去哪儿了？

And where are the 142 companies?

这就能让你明白，这事儿有多难了。

That that kinda gives you a sense of just how ridiculously difficult it is.

真希望这事儿能简单点。

I wish it was way easier.

那样的话，我的日子会轻松多了。

That would make my life way easier.

但事实就是，难到离谱。

But it is it is insanely difficult.

当初我们为电子号火箭融资时，圈子里最风光的是维珍轨道。

And when we were raising capital for Electron, there was, you know, the the the big, you know, show in town was Virgin Orbit.

理查德·布兰森为那家公司投了整整12亿美元，就为了做和电子号现在一样的事。

And, you know, Richard Branson had funded that business to the tune of $1,200,000,000 to do exactly the same thing that, you know, Electron does today.

但那并没有成功。

And it wasn't successful.

不是说你只要砸够钱就一定能成功。

It's not even like if you just pay enough money, you'll be successful.

要让一家航天发射公司真正成功，需要太多环节都完美配合，这种事实在太罕见了。

It's it is like there are so many elements that have to be absolutely perfect and lined up to make a successful launch business in particular, that is is just incredibly rare.

任何稀少的东西，自然就会有相应的价值。

And, you know, anything that's rare, you know, attracts a certain a certain value.

但当我们展望未来时，确实，航天行业现在充满了热情和快速增长。

But, you know, as as we think about going forward, yes, the, you know, the space industry is is seeing tremendous excitement and tremendous growth right now.

但这一切都合理吗？

And and, you know, is all of it justified?

恐怕未必。

Probably not.

但即便如此，这里依然存在着巨大的商业机会。

But but nevertheless, there is, you know, a huge huge commercial opportunity.

我相信，最终只会剩下少数几家公司，它们会是全流程企业——自己造火箭、自己造飞船，还提供太空服务，而大部分利益都会被它们拿走。

And my belief is that there's going to be a small handful of of companies, and these companies are going to be end to end companies, meaning that they have their own rocket, they have their own spacecraft, and they're providing services from space, and they'll take out the majority of the prize.

回到盈利这个话题，我想澄清一下，我本人非常热爱太空事业。

Just to to go back to the profitability point, and just so we're clear, I mean, I am a huge fan of space.

我经常读科幻小说，对这一切着迷。

I've I'm like I read about science fiction all the time.

我真的很期待这些发展。

I'm so excited about it.

我希望这些公司能造出火箭，希望人类能登陆火星，能深入探索太空。

I want these companies to build these rockets, and I want us to go to Mars, I want us to explore space.

我完全是支持的。

I'm like, pro.

我并不是想在盈利问题上显得刻薄。

So I didn't mean to for it to sound mean on the profitability point.

没错。

No.

完全不是。

Not at all.

我的理解是，到目前为止，这还不是一个能赚钱的生意，不过我也想再多了解一些。

My understanding, which I'd like to understand more about, is that so far, it is a business that doesn't make money.

到现在为止都是这样。

So far.

所以我希望能更清楚地了解一下这一点。

So I guess I'd I'd love some clarity on that.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你可以回过头去看看一些类似的企业，比如Digital Globe这样的公司。

Well, I mean, you know, you can go back and and and look at a bunch of businesses like, you know, Digital Globe as as an example.

他们是目前业内主导的地球观测公司。

You know, that's a that they're probably the the dominating earth observation company in the industry right now.

所以，从历史上看，确实有过这样的情况。

And so, I mean, you know, historically, there's yes.

确实有不少企业失败了，但我觉得成功的企业数量也相当可观。

There's there's there's been a number of businesses that have failed, but I think, you know, there's tremendous number of them have been successful as well.

太空在很多方面都是一个地缘政治话题，而正是从这个时候开始，太空竞赛真正加速了。

Space is a geopolitical topic in a lot of ways, and I I mean, this is how space really ramped up.

它变成了美国和苏联之间的一场竞争或较量。

It became a a fight or a race between The US and and The Soviet Union.

我很想听听你对太空产业中这种竞争态势如今还剩多少的看法。

I I'd be interested to hear the the your thoughts on the extent to which that is still a dynamic in the space industry.

现在看来，这更像是在和中国赛跑。

I mean, now it seems to be kind of like a race against China.

中国当然正在大力推动自己的航天计划。

China is, of course, ramping up their space program.

你对美国、中国和其他国家之间的竞争怎么看？

What are your thoughts on The US versus China versus any nation?

这种地缘政治竞争到底有多强？

To what extent is this kind of a geopolitical race?

太空可以说是至高无上的战略要地。

Well, I mean, space is the ultimate high ground.

从国家安全和国防的角度来看，它确实是最重要的制高点。

So from a from a national security and defense standpoint, it is the ultimate high ground.

掌握太空优势，就意味着掌握了陆地、海洋和空中的优势。

So space superiority means land, sea, and, you know, air superiority.

这一点始终成立。

So, you know, that is is is always true.

我觉得你提到的，大概是阿波罗计划那种情况，大家普遍觉得那是一次充满善意的慈善任务，

So, you know, I'd and and I think what you're referring to there is is is like the Apollo program where, you know, you know, that that is a, you know, an example of of kind of I think everybody thinks it was, you know, a wonderful, you know, philanthropic mission,

但其实它本质上是

but it was it was it was

一场冷战时期的较量，目的是向苏联展示美国的绝对优势，而且美国确实成功做到了。

a Cold War mission to demonstrate to Russia that The US had absolute supremacy and was very successful in doing that.

你觉得我们会不会再和中国展开一场登月竞赛？

And, you know, I think, could could we be up for another moon race at at at with with China?

我觉得这也很有可能。

I think that's that's highly possible too.

但我要明确说一点，从国家安全的角度来看，太空确实是制高点。

But but I think, you know, make no mistake that that space is the ultimate high ground for for national security.

您能再详细解释一下，为什么说它是制高点吗？

Could you explain more how it is the high ground?

我最近听到越来越多的说法是，谁先到月球并建立基地，或者将来在火星上立足，谁就能宣称拥有主权，现在关于太空战争的讨论也越来越多了。

I mean, one thing that I've been starting to hear more about is, you know, whoever gets to the moon and establishes a base on the moon or on Mars, they can sort of claim it, and now we're hearing more about sort of space wars.

这看起来确实是未来权力博弈的新前沿。

I mean, seems that this is, like, really the next frontier in terms of power conflict.

我的意思是

I mean

我对这一点不太确定。

I'm not so sure about that.

我觉得

I I think

明白了。

Okay.

归根结底，谁都想抢第一，都想证明自己最强。

I I think at the end of the day, you know, everybody wants to be first, and everybody wants to show supremacy.

美国已经登过月了，任务算完成了。

So, you know, The US has already been to the moon, so job done.

接下来美国自然该建一个长期驻守的月球基地。

And the next logical step for The US is to is to put, you know, some sustaining prison, the moon base on there.

这个基地要么得有经济价值，要么就得有地缘政治上的必要性。

And, you know, that has to be either economically viable or geopolitically, you know, a requirement.

这两者至少得占一样。

One of those two things has to be true.

不管最后怎么发展，我觉得真没必要搞那么多插旗占地的事儿。

So, you know, whichever way that shapes out but I I don't I know I'm not sure that there's, you know, there's there's a whole bunch of, you know, flag planting and and and property, you know, gaining there to be done.

你为啥觉得这事不会发生？

Why do you think that wouldn't happen?