安德鲁·凯利 - PIR 第765集

本期《风险档案》由曦浪公司赞助播出。

This episode of Profiles and Risk is sponsored by Xiwave.

保险公司、经纪公司和代理机构正面临风险升级与复杂性加剧的挑战。

Insurers, brokers and agencies are facing escalating risk and rising complexity.

唯有曦浪能带来性能倍增器，为您提供精准评估风险、释放效率潜能并实现高速规模化的工具。

Only Xiwave delivers a performance multiplier, equipping you with the tools to get risk right, unlock efficiency and scale at new speeds.

详情请访问xiwave.com。

Find out more at xiwave.com.

大家好，欢迎收听《风险档案》节目。

Hello, and welcome to Profiles in Risk.

我是主持人托尼·卡尼斯。

This is your host, Tony Canis.

今天与我同台的是AJ韦恩公司执行副总裁、Plus公司高管PLP委员会成员安德鲁·凯利。

And today I have with me Andrew Kelly, EVP at AJ Wayne and Associates and a member of the Exec PLP Commission at Plus.

今天我们录制的内容与Plus公司相关。

And today, we are recording about Plus.

首先，感谢您今天参加节目。

So first of all, thank you for joining me today.

最近怎么样？

How's it going?

还不错。

Pretty good.

谢谢邀请。

Thanks for having me.

好的。

Good.

好的。

Good.

我对此非常兴奋，因为我是一个保险教育狂热者，但我一直是PNC（注：可能指某保险机构），且始终站在承保方立场。

I'm very excited for for this one because I am a a insurance education fanatic, but I've always been PNC, and I've always always been carrier side.

所以基本上，我是从AINS和NAIC开始，然后是CPCU，抱歉打断一下。

So, basically, I started with AINS and a NAIC and then CPCU and then excuse me.

接着又完成了保险协会的一系列小型认证。我听说过很多关于RPLU和Plus其他认证的事，但自己还没有亲身体验过。

Then a bunch a bunch of of little ones from the institutes, And I've heard a lot about RPLU and some of the other ones from Plus, but I've had no personal experience with with them.

所以真的非常期待能了解更多专业责任险方面的知识，并能为听众们介绍这方面的教育机会。

So so so definitely excited to to to learn more about about the about the professional liability side and and to be able to tell the listeners more about about the educational opportunities on that side.

那么你是怎么开始接触保险教育的呢？

So how how did you get into the getting insurance education?

哦，这还挺有意思的。

Oh, it's kind of interesting.

其实我一直有HEARP PLU认证，但真正启发我的是你。

I mean, I've always had my HEARP PLU, but it was actually through you.

我听你经常谈论CPCU。

I heard you talk about the CPCU a lot.

我看了很多你的YouTube视频，这些激发了我对保险协会课程的兴趣。

I watched a lot of your YouTube videos and that sort of sparked my interest in the institutes.

正因如此，我先从简单的AINS开始，然后逐步考取了像ASLI（剩余险种）这样的认证，最后进入了CPCU体系。

And because of that, I started off with getting simpler ones like the AINS, but then sort of like proceeding through like the ASLI which is surplus lines and then into the CPCU.

确实，市面上没有太多关于职位分类的好信息。

Really there isn't a lot of good designation information out there.

而且必须承认，你是当时为数不多提供这类信息的人之一。

And admittedly you were one of the only ones out there giving that kind of information.

这对我帮助很大，

And it was very helpful to

谢谢。

Thank you.

某种程度上激发了我提升自我的兴趣，对我来说是一种激励。

Sort of get an interest in bettering myself and it served as a motivational thing for me.

所以真的非常感谢你做了这些。

So yeah, very thankful you did that.

谢谢，非常感谢。

Thank you, thank you.

你提到你一直持有RPLU资格。

So you mentioned that you've always had the RPLU.

在你职业生涯早期，是什么促使你考取RPLU？那段经历是怎样的？

So early in your career, what motivated you to get the RPLU and what was that experience like?

我是在2007年获得RPLU的，那时候的RPLU和现在有本质区别。

So I got my RPLU in 2007 and back then the RPLU was fundamentally different than what it is now.

多年前我考取它的原因是：我们的业务以职业责任险为核心，这是我们唯一专注的领域。

And the reason I did it all those years ago was it was Our business is a professional liability centric business, meaning that that's all we do.

我们是一家批发商，客户都是零售代理商。

We're a wholesaler, our clients are retail agents.

由于我们只专注于职业责任，RPO视角对我们来说就像一本手册。

Because we only focus on professional liability, getting the RPO view was kind of like a handbook for us.

如果你想成为专家，想提供好的建议，RPOU就像CICU对代理人一样自然而然——你只是想提升工作能力，为依赖你的人做好服务。

And if you want it to be an expert, if you want it to give good advice, the RPOU is just something that is second nature in the same way a CICU is for an agent that you just want to be better at your job and do a good job for the folks that rely on you.

那时候的RPLVU测试是什么样子的？

What was the RPLVU testing like back then?

现在有一些核心课程，然后你需要从第9到第23模块中选择五门选修课。

Now there's some core classes and then you have to choose five electives through I believe module nine through 23.

但在那个年代，是五大摞厚厚的文本资料。

But back in those days, was five very large reams of text.

我说的'大'是指每份资料可能有三四英寸厚。

And when I say large, each text was maybe three to four inches big.

当时完全没有线上资料。

Nothing was online.

你基本上得按照自己的节奏翻阅这些活页夹，所有测试都在Pro Metrics中心完成。

You basically had to go through the binders at your own pace and everything was done at the Pro Metrics Center.

我记得拿起其中一个大活页夹时，光是看着就让人发怵，因为内容实在太多了。

And when you picked up, I remember picking up one of those large binders, Just looking at it, like it can be intimidating because there's so much material there.

我当时唯一能做的就是尽量数字化处理——边学边用打字机整理自己的笔记，这样就不必完全依赖书本内容。

And the only thing that I could do was try to digitize it in the best way I knew how, which was I used to type out like my own notes as I was going through it so that I just wasn't relying on like, what's in the book.

所以我试着用自己知道的最佳方式进行缩写整理。

So I tried to abbreviate it as best I know how.

现在情况完全不同了，他们把模块压缩得很好，更便于消化吸收。

Now that's obviously way different because they've done a good job at compressing the modules so that they're easier to digest.

市面上确实有很多优质的学习资料，许多热心人士精心编写了学习指南，但看到从过去只是扔给你一本书说'祝你好运'到现在的发展，真是令人惊叹。

There's really good study materials out there and a lot of good folks that do excellent work with putting study guides out there, but it's amazing to see how far things have come between now and all those years ago when they just handed you a book and said, good luck.

考试是什么形式的？

What is the test like?

是像CBCU那样的选择题吗？

Is it multiple choice like CBCU?

是的。

Yes.

虽然是选择题，但和CBCU一样有时间限制，而且如果你不了解细节，想要有条理地完成会非常困难。

Multiple choice, but like the CBCU, it was a time thing and it was something that, you know, if you don't know the detail, being able to go through it in a thoughtful way gets very difficult.

好的。

All right.

所以如果我没记错的话，我们的PLU相当于专业险领域的认证资格。

So so our our PLU, if I'm not mistaken, is is kind of the the designation over on the on the professional line side.

嗯。

K.

就像是PNC体系里的CPCU那样重要的认证。

Kind of the the big one, like CPCU is is in PNC.

Plus还有哪些其他认证？

What are the other designations from Plus?

共有三种。

So there are three.

RPU，我常跟询问的人说，RPU就像是专业险领域的CPCU，它主要关注错误与遗漏保险（E&O），以及理解E&O与综合责任险（GL）之间的协同原则。

The RPU, I always like to tell folks that ask me, the RPU is sort of like the CPCU for professional lines And its focus is E and O insurance and understanding the different principles that give a synergy between the E and O and the GL.

他们拥有CPLP认证，这完全是围绕网络安全的。

And they have the CPLP, which is solely cyber centric.

它只讨论网络责任风险、理解这些风险、应用相关知识并了解网络责任风险市场。

It only talks about cyber liability exposures, understanding them, applying them and understanding the cyber liability risk market.

这条产品线已经发展成为一个独特的细分领域。

That coverage line has really sort of grown to be its own niche.

当网络安全保险刚起步时，你可能每10个风险中只能承保1个。

When cyber first started, you used to only really bind maybe one out of every 10 risks.

就像90年代初的EPLI（雇佣责任保险）一样，当时才刚刚起步，关注度不高。

And it was something that was like EPLI was back in the early 90s where it was just sort of like just getting started and not a lot of focus there.

现在有些代理商、批发商和MGA（管理总代理）专门从事这块业务。

Then now you have some agents, some wholesalers, some MGAs that that's all they do.

因此Plus公司创立了CPLP认证，以反映行业中这一增长趋势，表明这是专业责任险的一部分，值得单独认证。

So Plus originated the CPLP designation to reflect that growing trend in the industry that that is a part of professional lines and worthy of its own designation.

而PLP认证则专门针对董事高管责任险、信托责任险、雇佣责任险和管理责任险风险。

And then the exact PLP designation is just solely directors and officers, fiduciary liability, employment practices liability insurance, management liability insurance exposures.

这三者通常相互关联，因为它们被打包在一起，其中董事高管责任险是最基础的部分。

In that those three are commonly associated with each other because they're packaged together with the directors and officers liability leading or being the most fundamental part of that.

这些认证都很重要，Plus公司在为批发商、管理总代理、理赔人员和零售代理商提供这类信息方面做得非常出色，就像AIC或CBCU那样。

So each of those designations are important and plus it's just a super job at providing that kind of information for wholesalers, managing donor agents, claims, retail agents to be able to much like the same way the AIC does or the CBCU does.

它能让你全面了解保险行业，这样当你收到投保申请时——比如作为零售商，大多数零售商对综合责任险很熟悉——即使他们现在不经营专业责任险，也能专业地讨论相关知识，全面理解所有承保范围，从而为客户提供更专业的整体服务。

It gives you that full picture of the insurance industry so that you can, if you have a submission, if you're a retailer, for example, most retailers know GL really well, now you know, if they don't already write to professional, they can talk about the professional intelligently and understand the full picture of all of their lines of coverage so that they can, you know, service the entire account intelligently.

好的，我们是否涵盖了所有内容？

All right, did we cover all of the, k.

就这样，就这样，我们的PLU执行层PLP。

So so so our our PLU exec exec PLP.

好的。

Okay.

完美。

Perfect.

完美。

Perfect.

明白了。

Alright.

所以加上作为组织。

So plus as as the organization.

对吧？

Right?

它代表省级联盟。

It it stands for for for the Provincial Alliance.

它属于承保协会吗？

Is it underwriting society?

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

完美。

Perfect.

那么，你们的组织是什么样的？一个人怎样才能加入这个组织呢？

So so what what is your organization like, and how how can one get involved in in the organization?

任何人都可以加入PLUS。

Anybody can get involved with Plus.

PLUS最初是由一群专业人士创立的，他们看到了许多服务于商业保险（如综合责任险）的不同协会，但缺少一个专门聚焦于专业人士的团体。

Plus was originally founded by a group of professionals that saw a lot of the different societies that service the commercial lines like the GL and wanted a society that just focused on professionals since that really wasn't there.

任何想参与职业责任保险的人都可以访问PLUS的网站，就像各协会提供不同演讲供你了解职业责任保险一样。

Anybody that wants to get involved with professional lines can go on PLUS's website the same way that the institutes have different presentations that you can look at with regard to professional liability insurance.

他们会举办各种活动，包括网络研讨会。

They put on different events, they do webinars.

他们举办非常优质的社交活动，就像各协会那样，你可以与核保人、批发商、零售商见面，他们都对这一保险领域感兴趣。

They do really good networking events same way the institutes does, where you can meet with underwriters, with wholesalers, with retailers that all are interested in this line of coverage.

你可以获得与CPCU类似的社交机会，但接触的是更多专注于职业责任保险领域的人士。

And you can get that same sort of networking that you can get with the CPCU side of it, but you'll be working with individuals that work more on the professional line side.

所以拓展人脉永远不是坏事。

So it's never a bad thing to do networking.

我认为当初我考取CPCU时，部分动机在于人脉能放大技术知识的作用，你可以利用人脉作为跳板，应用所学技术知识并推动职业发展。

I think when I did the CPCU, a part of the motivation to do that was, you know, the networking sort of amplifies the technical knowledge and you can use the networking as a springboard to apply the technical knowledge you learned and further your career.

而这是其延伸。

And this is an extension of that.

在完成CPCU后，我建议接下来考取RPLU，因为如果你只打算获取两个认证，这两个是极好的起点——CPCU让你对行业有整体把握，而RPLU则像手术刀般深入剖析职业责任保险风险，这是CPCU课程设计未涵盖的。

After you've done the CPCU, I would recommend that anybody do the RPLU next because doing the CPCU and then the RPLU, if you're only gonna get two designations, those two are really great places to start because the CPCU gives you the overarching sort of feel for the industry in general and the RPLU gets in there with a scalpel and that gives you a good idea of professional lines risks that the CPU is just not designed to cover.

两者结合能让你对行业有全面认知。

So together you get a full picture of the industry.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

而且它非常适合经纪人，尤其是批发业务方面。

And it's a good fit for for brokers, especially wholesale side.

那它是否也适合保险公司的人呢？

Is it is it a good fit for for carrier people?

当然适合。

Absolutely.

对保险公司人员来说非常合适，有几个原因。

It's a great fit for carrier people because a couple of reasons.

你们会有核保人，保险公司那边可能现在不做专业责任险的人。

You're going to have underwriters, folks on the carrier side that may not do professional lines right now.

我注意到保险行业的一个特点就是它总是在变化。

And the one thing that I've noticed about the insurance industry is that it's always fluid.

即使你现在不做职业责任险，但了解专业险种和这些风险敞口，能让你更全面地看待自己的承保业务，因为这样能看到全局。

And if you are, maybe you don't even do professional liability right now, having the ability to understand professional lines and those exposures, it informs the way you are looking at your own lines of coverage because it allows you to see the full picture.

同时还能为你打开完全不同的机会大门。

And then it also lets you have a completely different opportunity base available to you.

所以即使你现在没计划涉足专业险种，多付出努力，专业险种有它自己的人脉圈。

So even if you have no plans on getting into professional lines now, going the extra mile, doing the extra effort, professional lines has its own networking.

在保险公司关注点方面，它有自己独特的偏好。

It has its own appetites in terms of what carriers wanna see.

在当前竞争激烈的就业市场中，两者兼顾会让你远超大多数专业人士。

And with the competitive job market right now, doing both puts you head and tails above most professionals.

我记得你说过，30岁的人大多没有CPCU资格。

I think you had said, most folks 30 don't have the CPCU.

如果你能获得这个资格，就进入了保险业真正认真对待这一行、并展现出行业承诺的精英阶层。

And if you get it, you're in this upper echelon of folks that are serious about insurance and shown commitment to the industry.

而我还要更进一步。

And I'll go one step above that.

如果能同时获得CPCU和RPLU双认证，你就跻身于那极少数能全面理解风险两面的保险专业人士之列。

If you were to do the CPCU and RPLU together, that puts you in like an even finer percentage of insurance professionals that understand both sides of the risk.

就个人职业发展而言，这相当于百里挑一中的百里挑一，不仅能让你通晓整个行业，更能理解专业责任险领域的深层意义——若能达成这两项成就，你确实站在了常人难以企及的高度。

And with regard to your own opportunities to furthering your career, you're talking about a percent of a percent and it just positions you to understand the whole industry, but then understand those implications on what it means to have a professional lines exposure, which I mean, if you're able to do both of those things, you're really in some rare air.

完全合理。

Makes perfect sense.

现在你实际上就在负责制定PLP认证标准的委员会里。

And nowadays, you're you're actually on the the the group that helps build the exact PLP designation.

对吧？

Right?

你参与这项工作多久了？这段经历感觉如何？

How long have you been involved with that and how how's that experience been?

非常棒。

It's been great.

最可贵的是专业责任险领域有紧密的从业者社群，大家彼此熟识、相互尊重。

The really great thing is that in professional lines, there is a close community of folks that work on that business and that know each other and that respect each other.

作为PLP执行委员会成员，我有幸与深刻理解董事高管责任险的同仁共事，他们自愿投入时间优化课程模块，提升行业能见度，让更多从业者知道可以获取这类风险的专业知识。

And on the exec PLP committee, I get a chance to work with folks that understand intimately the directors and officers liability exposure that care about it, that are giving their own time to try and make these modules better, to try and increase visibility so that other professionals know that they can get additional knowledge about these types of exposures.

然后能够尝试实施变革以实现这一目标，努力邀请专家加入Plus并提供额外内容以提升我们的活动质量，尽可能负责任地更新我们的模块，确保内容与时俱进，让年轻从业者在实践中获取最新信息。

And then to be able to try to implement changes to bring that to fruition, trying to get experts to come to Plus and provide additional content to make our events better, trying to update our modules in the most responsible way possible so that the content that's out there stays up to date with the current trends so that young professionals, when they're doing this are getting up to date information.

接着建立人脉网络，因为职业责任险和保险行业最有趣的特点在于它是一个非常紧密的小圈子。能够回馈并成为这个社区的一部分，为下一代保险从业者铺路，帮助他们提升自我。

And then doing the networking so that the interesting thing about professional lines and insurance in general is that it is a very small close knit community and to be able to give back and to be a part of that community and to pay it forward so that younger, the next generation of insurance professionals can better themselves.

我是说，这简直再好不过了。

I mean, there's just nothing better.

太棒了，安德鲁。

Fantastic, Andrew.

谢谢，感谢你今天抽空交流。

Thank thank you for your time today.

很有意思能看到保险行业中我不曾有机会接触的另一面。

It's interesting to kind of see the the other side of of of the the insurance world that that that I that I haven't had a lot of chance to experience.

就像我的视频激励你去学习CPCU课程一样，希望本期内容也能鼓励更多人关注RPLU网站。

And just like my videos inspired you to to also do CPC UI, I hope that that this one's this one inspired more more people to look at the RPLU site.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

感谢您抽出时间。

Thank you for taking the time.

我不得不反复强调：当你刚进入保险行业时，想要找到职业突破点可能会非常困难。

And again, I I can't say it enough times that when you're just getting into insurance, trying to find a way to bring your career to the next level can be very difficult.

而教育永远是最好的起点。

And education is always the best place to start.

各大学院及其评级资质如CIC等广为人知，但我们希望尽可能提高PLUS的知名度——它处于同等水平，拥有评级资质，这些资质能打开通往保险业另一个重要细分领域的大门，过去二十年对我而言意义非凡。

And there is a lot of exposure around the institutes and their grades designations and designations like the CIC, but we want to get out as much awareness as possible that PLUS is on that same level that they have grades designations that those designations open up a doorway to an entire other subset and niche of insurance that has been great for me over the past twenty years.

我们希望使其触手可及，让新一代从业者了解我们是谁、我们在做什么，这样他们能提升自我，我们也欢迎他们加入这条保险业务线。

And we want to make it accessible so that the next generation coming in knows who we are, knows what we do, and that can make themselves better and that we're welcoming these folks to this line of insurance.

我们希望您能成为专业险种的一员，如果您愿意投入时间和精力，这确实是保险业非常出色的细分领域，我自己都难以想象离开它。

We want you a part of professional lines and if you take the time and effort to put in the work, this is really a great segment of insurance and one that I can't see myself.

我每天都感激自己进入了这个保险领域，因为它确实...

I'm thankful every day that I went into this area of insurance because it just really is.

每天你都能学到新东西。

Every day you learn something new.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

谢谢。

Thank you.

很好。

Great.

谢谢。

Thank you.