572 – 狗粮幕后：肉类、肉粉和副产品解析

《纯种狗对话》是为纯种犬发声的节目。

Pure Dog Talk is the voice of purebred dogs.

我们会采访这项运动中的传奇人物，分享实用的建议和工具，帮你和你的纯种犬过上精彩的生活。

We talk to the legends of the sport and give you the tips and tools to create an awesome life with your purebred dog.

无论是犬展、品种保护繁育，还是竞技服从训练、野外工作、敏捷赛，还是治疗犬服务，中间的种种乐趣，都是我们关注的核心。

From showing to preservation breeding, from competitive obedience to fieldwork, from agility to therapy dogs, and all the fun in between, your passion is our purpose.

欢迎收听《纯种狗对话》。

Welcome to Pure Dog Talk.

我是你们的主持人里弗斯，今天这场对话一定会很精彩。

I am your host, Reeves, and this is gonna be fun.

我们请来了罗布·道尼再次做客。

We have Rob Downey back.

他是安纳梅特狗粮的总裁兼首席执行官，今天我们要深入聊一聊。

He's the president and CEO of Annamaet dog food, and we're gonna do some deep dive.

我们会仔细剖析一下，狗粮里到底都包含了些什么。

We're gonna drill down a little bit, and we're gonna talk about what goes into dog food.

今天我们来聊聊三个词，我觉得就连我们这些像我刚才对Rob说的那样，天天盯着配料表看的人，也未必真懂。

And we're gonna talk about three terms that I think sometimes we don't always, even those of us that, as I was just saying to Rob, obsessively read labels, don't necessarily understand.

就是‘肉’、‘肉粉’和‘副产品’这三个词。

And that is what is meat, meal, and byproduct.

我说得对吗？

Did I get it right?

你说得完全对。

You got it right.

没错。

Yes.

我太有成就感了。

I'm so proud.

Pure Dog Talk 由 Trupanion 赞助，为您的爱宠提供终身医疗保障。

Pure Dog Talk is proudly sponsored by Trupanion, medical insurance for the life of your pet.

Trupanion 致力于帮助宠物获得所需的治疗。

Trupanion loves helping pets get the care they need.

所以他们很高兴宣布，已经累计支付了超过20亿美元的兽医理赔款。

That's why they're excited to announce that they've officially paid out over 2,000,000,000, that's with a B, billion dollars in veterinary claims.

这20亿美元，意味着更多尾巴摇晃和零食奖励。

That's 2,000,000,000 reasons for more tail wags and treats.

有73万只宠物因此获得了所需的治疗。

That's 730,000 pets that got the care they needed.

感谢过去22年来所有信任他们的宠物主人和繁育者。

Would like to thank all of the owners and breeders who've trusted them over the last twenty two years.

如果你参与了Trupanion繁育者支持计划，别忘了为即将出生的幼犬登记他们的回家日优惠。

If you're part of the Trupanion Breeder Support Program, don't forget to register your upcoming litters for their go home day offers.

这样你就能让它们带着Trupanion的顶级保障回家。

That way you can send them home protected by Trupanion's world class coverage.

如果你还没加入这个计划，那怎么办？

If you're not part of the program yet What?

什么？

What?

什么？

What?

加入是完全免费的，这样你就能为你的幼犬提供一份完整的Trupanion保险优惠，而且无需等待期。

It's completely free to join and lets you send your litters home with an offer for a full Trupanion insurance policy that waives the waiting periods.

想了解更多并注册，请访问我的合作伙伴页面 puredogtalk.com。

To learn more and to sign up, just visit my partner page at puredogtalk.com.

好的。

Okay.

欢迎，Rob。

So welcome, Rob.

你最近怎么样？

How are doing?

我挺好的。

I'm doing great.

怎么

How

你呢？

are you?

我还行。

I'm okay.

还不错。

I'm alright.

外面在下雪，我希望咱们能顺利度过这一段。

It's snowing, so I'm hoping that we're gonna be good through this whole thing.

肯定会很棒。

It's gonna be awesome.

跟我们说说吧。

So talk to us.

你正在看包装上的标签。

You're looking at your label.

不管买什么品牌的狗粮，大家都会看标签。

No matter what brand of food you're buying, everybody's looking at labels.

那我们该怎么选，才能让狗狗吃得最营养呢？

So what is it we should be looking for in order to have our best nutrition for our dog?

我觉得要谈这个，得先回过头来看看这些说法到底是什么意思，它们的依据其实来自AAFCO。

Well I think to start this conversation we have to back up a little bit and look at what those statements mean and definitions come from and that really comes from AAFCO.

对。

Okay.

不管你是买罐头、冷冻粮还是别的，包装上都会看到AAFCO的声明。

You'll see on the package whether it be canned, frozen or whatever, the AAFCO statement.

AAFCO是美国饲料管理官员协会的简称。

And AAFCO is the American Association of Feed Control Officials.

他们并不直接监管宠物食品，而是制定标准，具体执行则由各州的FDA和农业部来负责。

They don't regulate pet foods, what they do is they set up the guidelines and then the regulation goes through the FDA and the Department of Agriculture in most states.

所以AAFCO其实是个志愿者组织。

So AAFCO is actually a volunteer organization.

每个成员都有投票权，但你必须是FDA、AAFCO或农业部这些机构的成员才行。

Each person gets a vote and you have to be on one of these bodies, whether it be FDA, AAFCO or USDA.

所以每个州都有权决定自己怎么看待这个问题。

So each state has the ability to regulate how they view it.

令人遗憾的是，这些规定完全取决于各州官员的个人理解。

And the sad part is, those regulations are open to the interpretation of each state official.

每个州都有一位饲料管理官员。

So every state has a Feed Control Official.

作为宠物食品制造商，我要想在每个州销售，都得获得该州的批准。

And as a pet food manufacturer, for me to sell in each state, I have to be approved by that state.

所以你得把标签分别提交给每一个州。

So you have to send your labels in to each individual state.

我完全没想到，这简直让我大吃一惊。

I had no idea, this is like mind blown, literally mind blown.

每个州的官员都得审核标签，而规定明确说，这完全取决于官员个人的解读。

Each state official then has to look at it and the rules state it's open to the interpretation of each individual official.

我们曾经遇到过这种情况：标签在26个州都通过了，第27个州却拒绝了，我们按他们的要求修改后，重新提交，结果其中一个原本通过的州又不认了。

So we have literally had a label approved in say 26 states, the 27 state rejects it, and we make the change that they require and reapply it in now one of the original 26 states.

所以有时候你感觉就像在玩打地鼠一样。

So sometimes you almost figure like you're in a game of whack a mole.

这太荒谬了，而且你也不可能为每个州做不同的标签。

That is insanity, And it's not like you can make different labels for different states.

对啊。

Right.

没错。

Right.

这简直太疯狂了。

So I mean, gets crazy.

有个具体情况，我们有一种成分被拒了。

And one case in particular, we had an ingredient that was rejected.

我知道那成分没问题，其他所有州都批准了，就这一个州卡着不放。

And I know it was an okay ingredient, it was approved by all these states, but this one state was rejecting it.

不管我说什么，他们就是不通过。

And so it didn't matter what I said, they rejected it.

你知道我后来怎么做的吗？

So you know what I did?

他们最怕的就是去跟大品牌或者大公司较劲，怕惹上官司。

The one thing they're afraid of is they don't want to take on big kibble or big companies and get in a lawsuit.

在经历这么多拒绝之后，我干脆拍了一张大品牌狗粮包装上这个成分的图片，发给了他们，结果一小时内就通过了。

So after all these rejections, I literally took a picture of this ingredient on a bag from one of the big kibble companies and send it to them, and within an hour we were approved.

天哪，这招太绝了。

My God, that is it.

你能告诉我那到底是什么成分吗？

Are you allowed to tell me what the ingredient was?

不行，我不能说。

No, I'm not gonna do that.

好吧，不涉及商业机密，我懂。

Okay, no trade secrets, got it.

明白了。

Yeah.

所以是他们

So they're

决定我们能用哪些术语。

the ones that determine the terminology that we're allowed to use.

没错。

Right.

比如说‘肉’这个词。

And so for example, meat.

如果你用的肉曾经被冷冻过，就不能再称为新鲜了。

If the meat you use has been frozen at any time, it's no longer considered fresh.

明白了。

Okay.

所以作为生产商，我不会冒险运输所谓的鲜肉，我宁愿用冷冻肉。

So as a manufacturer, I wouldn't trust shipping non frozen meat, what I call fresh meat, I want frozen.

没错。

Right.

我想用的时候倒是能用，但就是不能说它是‘新鲜的’。

And I'll thought when I want to use it, but then I can't attach the word fresh to it.

我觉得这有点荒唐。

I think that's a little crazy.

挺有意思的。

Interesting.

然后就是‘肉粉’这个词了，这其实是个加工术语——把生肉加热，去掉水分和大部分脂肪，变成粉末，再经过处理杀菌，这样才方便运输，这种东西就叫肉粉。

Then you get into the term meal, and meal is actually a processing term where you take raw meat and it's heated up, moisture's removed, a lot of the fat's removed, and it becomes a powder, and it's raised so you don't have the bacterial problem, and then that's how it's shipped as a meal.

这种东西也叫‘加工原料’，AAFCO对‘加工’的定义特别严格。

And then that's also called a rendered ingredient, and AAFCO is pretty strict about rendered.

只要你改变了原料的物理形态，不管是加热、处理还是别的操作，它就变成了加工产品。

Anytime you change the physical component or whatever, you heat it up or you do this or do that, now it becomes a rendered product.

就连我们本地的肉铺，如果他们做香肠，按宠物食品行业的标准，这也算加工产品。

So even in the food chain, like for instance, my local meat store, if they make a sausage, if it was in the pet industry, would be considered rendered.

明白了，我跟上了。

Okay, alright, I'm following.

还有个挺有意思的地方，就是‘meal’这个词。

And the other thing that is kind of interesting, the term meal Mhmm.

在世界上大多数地方，人们并不用这个词。

Isn't used in most parts of the world.

比如我说‘鸡肉粉’，欧洲人根本不知道这是什么意思。

Like, if I use chicken meal, somebody in Europe, they don't have the term meal.

他们会说‘脱水鸡肉’，或者干脆就叫‘鸡肉’。

They would call it dehydrated chicken or simply chicken.

挺有意思的。

Interesting.

明白了。

Okay.

他们就是不用‘meal’这个词。

They don't use the term meal.

用‘meal’的好处在于，水分基本都被去掉了。

Now the advantage of using a meal is that basically the moisture has been removed.

所以如果我订一整车的鸡肉粉，水分含量只有10%。

So if I'm ordering chicken meal, a truckload, it's only going to be 10% moisture.

但如果订的是新鲜鸡肉，一整车的水分能占到70%，干物质只有30%。

I'm ordering fresh chicken, a truckload is going to be 70% water, only 30% dry matter.

但你去看配料表上的标注，都是按含水重量算的。

But when you read the label on the ingredient list, it's according to wet weight.

也就是说，那些水分全算在里面了。

So it includes all that water.

所以当你看到标着‘新鲜肉类配方’或者‘肉类配方’的时候，总觉得肉的成分特别多，其实是因为加了太多水。

That's why when you see a fresh meat formula, or a meat formula, there always seems to be more meat ingredients because there's so much water added.

当然，做膨化食品的时候，这些水分全都被蒸发掉了。

Then of course when you're doing an extruded product that all gets kicked out.

对。

Right.

明白了。

Okay.

所以肉是一回事，肉粉是另一回事，还有副产品粉。

And so then meat is one thing, meal is the other thing, byproducts.

没错。

Right.

鸡肉粉主要就是皮和肌肉，不含内脏。

So chicken meal is basically skin, muscle, and no internal organs.

不能有内脏，但可以含一些骨头；而到了副产品粉，内脏就进去了。

Like you can't have organ meat in it, you can have some bone in it, but when you go to byproduct meal, that's when the organ meat gets involved.

现在宠物行业越来越关注铜储存问题，这也是个越来越重要的考量。

And that's really starting to become a bigger consideration now when you start to look at the new concern in the pet industry is copper storage issues.

因为铜主要储存在肝脏里。

Because you need to understand that copper stored in the liver.

所以如果你担心铜含量，就应该避开含肝脏的产品。

So if you're worried about copper, you should be avoiding liver products.

因此，如果你在意铜的问题，鸡肉副产品粉比鸡肉粉更值得关注。

So things like chicken byproduct meal would be more concerned if you're concerned about copper than chicken meal.

说到动物副产品，大家都知道狗粮行业那些不堪入目的做法，把最差的东西都翻出来用。

And so when we talk about byproducts, I mean, everyone has seen every horrible thing about, you know, the dog food industry scraping up the bottom of the barrel.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I'm saying?

这些说法到底有多少是真事，有多少是夸大其词？

How much of that is real and how much of that is blather?

说实话，几年前这些情况确实普遍存在。

Well, honestly, till a few years ago, it was pretty real.

没过多久以前，工厂还能用四D肉。

I mean, it wasn't that many years ago that you could use four d meats.

在屠宰场里，四D指的是死的、病的、快死的，

So in a slaughtering facility, four d means dead, diseased, dying,

或者站不起来的。

or down.

站不起来的。

Down.

是的。

Yeah.

现在这种情况已经被禁止了。

And so now that has been banned.

我说得对吗？

Am I correct or I'm not correct?

根据《食品现代化安全法案》，宠物食品公司开始像人类食品公司那样运作，这类原料已经被彻底淘汰了。

With the Food Modernization Safety Act, which really started to make pet food companies act more like human food companies, that's all been eliminated.

所以现在市面上已经没有狗粮会用这种糟糕的原料了？

Okay, so there's now no dog food out there that's using that grossness?

按规定，现在没有任何狗粮应该使用这种原料。

There's no dog food that's supposed to be using that.

说实话，我不会完全信任所有人，作为制造商，你必须深入了解你的供应商，并且相信他们。

I'll be honest, I don't trust everybody, so as a manufacturer you really got to know your suppliers and have faith in them.

我们有些合作方已经打交道三十年了。

Some of these people we've been working with for thirty years.

我跟他们熟得像朋友一样，但你知道，总有些贪便宜的人会偷工减料。

I know them like friends, but you know, there's always the low end guy that's gonna cut the corners and

没错。

Right.

好的。

K.

我这边说完了。

I'm done now.

很好。

Good.

对吧？

Right?

大家稍等一下。

Hang tight, guys.

我这儿有点信息要跟你们说。

Got a little bit of information for you.

我们马上回来，继续我们的播客。

We'll be right back to the podcast in a minute.

各位注意一下。

Heads up, crew.

我们为你们29万1千位听众准备了一个超棒的机会。

We have a super exciting opportunity for all 291,000 of you.

对吧？

Right?

我们很想听听你的想法。

We want to hear from you.

在狗狗相关的产品和服务里，你最喜欢哪些？

What products and services do you love in the dog world?

三月之前，你可以在 puredogtalk.com 找到一个简短的调查链接，告诉我们你的看法。

Through March, you will find a link to a quick survey at puredogtalk.com to give us that information.

我知道在这么忙的一天里抽出五分钟不容易，所以我准备了点小礼物来鼓励大家。

And because I know it can seem daunting to carve five minutes out of a jam packed day, I am prepared to bribe you.

真的，这个月完成问卷的每个人都会免费获得一条纯狗对话的辅导语音，还会参与一系列抽奖。

For real, everyone who completes the survey this month will receive one free pure pep talk mentoring message and be entered in a series of drawings.

头奖得主将获得我们杰出赞助者团体一整年的付费会员资格。

The grand prize winner will receive one full year paid membership in our amazing patrons group.

其他奖品还包括免费下载《劳拉阿姨的赛犬入门指南》有声书、免费下载医生马蒂·格里尔的急救指南视频，以及免费赠送的纯狗对话保温杯。

Additional prizes include a free download of the audiobook, Auntie Laura's Beginner's Guide to Show Dogs, a free download of the first aid kit video with doctor Marty Greer, and free Pure Dog Talk wine tumblers.

保温杯。

Tumblers.

所以，抽几分钟时间，去 puredogtalk.com 填个问卷吧，既为咱们的社区出力，也能赢点额外好礼。

So, hey, take a couple minutes, swing by puredogtalk.com, and complete your survey for the good of the order and a chance at some extra goodies.

好的。

Okay.

现在我们已经搞清楚了列表里各项的对应关系，接下来聊聊这些信息在标签上该怎么呈现。

So we've identified now which is which in our list, and so talk about what that's gonna look like on the label a little bit more.

通常来说，如果你要做的是我们说的‘鲜肉配方’——虽然按AAFCO标准，因为肉是冷冻过的，严格来说不算鲜肉——但一般它会排在成分表第一位，而且含水量通常在70%左右。

So typically if you're gonna have, and we call them fresh meat formulas, even though according to AAFCO they're not fresh meat because the meat's been frozen, And so typically that'll be the number one ingredient, and that tends to be 70% moisture.

等水分蒸发后，肉的实际含量就只剩30%了。

So once that water's gone, now you'd only have 30% of meat.

所以通常后面都会跟着一种肉粉。

So typically that's always backed up and by a meal.

你会看到鸡肉、去骨鸡肉、去骨羊肉之类的成分。

So you'll see chicken or deboned chicken, deboned lamb or whatever.

接下来的第二或第三个成分通常是肉粉，比如鸡肉粉或羊肉粉，用来把蛋白质含量提上去。

And then usually the next ingredient or the third ingredient will be a meal, whether it be chicken or lamb or whatever to really bring the protein back up.

明白了。

Okay.

因为配料表是按重量排序的，水分去掉之后情况就不同了。

Because where it's listed on the ingredients list is by weight and when you get the water out.

懂了。

Got it.

湿重。

Wet weight.

换句话说，就是按照进入挤压机时的重量来计算的。

So in other words, it goes by the weight going into the extruder.

明白了。

Got it.

我经常做讲座，每次都会提到一个重点：看看配料表。

I do a lot of lectures and one of the things that I always show is you know do an ingredient list.

你会选哪一种呢？

Which one would you pick here?

你看到的都是新鲜肉类的配料，但一旦去掉水分，实际含肉量往往比用肉粉的还要少。

Well you show all these raw fresh meat ingredients, but once you remove that moisture then there is a really much more there's usually less meat than in the one that's using meal.

所以在很多情况下，如果肉粉质量不错，反而是用肉粉的配方更划算。

So in a lot of cases the better buy is the formula that's using meal provided it's a good meal.

对。

Mhmm.

那有办法让懂行的消费者分辨出好的肉粉和差的肉粉吗？

And is there a way for the educated consumer to identify good meal from bad meal, for example?

他们要这么做的话，通常只能靠配料表上标注的灰分含量。

Well, the only way they could do that is if they have the ash content listed usually.

或者直接问厂家，因为一般来说， Meal 里的蛋白质和矿物质含量是挂钩的。

Or ask the company because basically when you're looking at a meal tends to be protein tends to be mineral.

矿物质多，往往意味着有更多没被消化的残留物。

Mineral tends to be non digested material.

所以你得选灰分低的。

So you want something that's low ash.

问题是，AAFCO 并不承认‘低灰分’这个说法。

Now the problem is AAFCO doesn't recognize the term low ash.

所以我不能在包装上写‘低灰分鸡肉’。

So I can't put on my bag low ash chicken.

这不符合规范术语。

That's not an accepted term.

但为了让你明白其中的差别，高品质的原料——其实不一定是 Meal，也可能是新鲜肉类——

But to show you the difference, good quality, and it doesn't even have to be meal, it could be fresh meat.

如果里面骨头多，矿物质和不可消化成分就会更多。

If there's a lot of bone in it, they're gonna have more mineral and more non digestible.

优质的肉类或鱼类，蛋白质含量在62%到74%之间，灰分只有10%到11%。

So a good quality meat or fish is 62 to 74% protein and only 10 or 11% ash.

劣质的肉类或鱼类，蛋白质只有42%到46%，灰分却高达24%。

Poor quality meat or fish is 42 to 46% protein and 24% ash.

真的吗。

Wow.

现在看出差别了吧？

Now see the difference?

可怕的是，这两种东西都会被标成鸡肉、三文鱼、牛肉，随便什么名字都行。

Now the scary part is they're both gonna be called chicken or they're both gonna be called salmon or beef or whatever.

没错。

Right.

所以我说，对于有判断力的消费者，我们该怎么分辨呢？

This is why I'm saying for the educated consumer, how do we then identify that?

我真想不起来见过哪袋干粮把灰分列出来过，你懂我的意思吧？

Because I can't think of a dry kibble bag that I've seen ash listed as a you know what I'm saying?

是的。

Yeah.

我们其实已经列了好多年了。

I mean, we've listed it for years.

明白了。

Okay.

现在我们正在做的是，不再只在包装袋上标注，而是会在官网为所有产品提供一份平均营养分析。

And now what we're doing is we're transitioning from having it on the bag on our website, we're going to have an average nutrient analysis of all of our products.

这不错。

That's cool.

我一直觉得保证分析挺有问题的，它只标最小值或最大值。

Because one of the things that bothers me about guaranteed analysis, it says minimum or maximum.

这根本说明不了什么。

That doesn't really tell you much.

如果你的狗超重，而脂肪含量标的是最低12%，那最高是多少呢？

If you have an overweight dog and the fat content is minimum 12%, well what's the max?

是20%吗？

Is it 20?

天啊，你这话真是让我大吃一惊。

Okay, once again you just blew my mind.

我从来没想过这个问题。

I never actually thought about that.

明白了。

Okay.

我跟你说，我干这行已经四十多年了。

I will tell you, I've been doing this for forty some years.

说不定我干得太久，都看麻木了。

Maybe I've been doing it too long.

我觉得自己算个挺有见识的消费者，可刚才真被你震住了。

I consider myself a relatively educated consumer, and I just had my mind blown.

我告诉你，宠物食品里最贵的原料就是优质蛋白。

I will tell you that the single most costly ingredient in a pet food is quality protein.

所以你看包装上写的，蛋白质含量最低24%、26%或者30%，

So when you see on that bag, it says minimum 24, minimum 26 or minimum 30.

最高也不会高太多，因为实在太贵了。

The max isn't going to be much different because it's too expensive.

可能会有点变化的是脂肪含量，因为脂肪便宜，厂家总想尽量少放点。

One of the things that might change a bit is fat, because fat is cheap and you're always trying to get rid of it.

如果一家公司标的是脂肪最低12%，实际可能有16%。

If a company says minimum 12% fat, it could be 16% fat.

不过话说回来，我们现在要聊的是肥胖问题，这可是狗狗最常见的健康问题，就跟人类一样。

Now having said that, now we're transitioning into obesity, which is really the number one problem in dogs, just like it is in humans.

对。

Yes.

如果你担心脂肪含量，那确实该担心，因为每克脂肪的热量是蛋白质或碳水化合物的两倍。

But if you're worried about the fat levels, and you should be because there's twice the amount of calories in a gram of fat as there is in protein or carbohydrates.

这跟人类一样，就是摄入热量和消耗热量的关系。

It's just like in humans calories in versus calories out.

所以如果你想让你的狗保持体重，或者想帮它减重，就找包装上标着‘低脂’、‘轻量’或‘低卡’的产品，这些是AAFCO认证的术语，要求宠物食品公司控制脂肪含量，不仅要有最低标准，还得有最高上限。

So if you want to maintain the weight on your dog and you're looking for something to lose weight, look for a term, a bag called lean, light, or low calorie because those are AAFCO approved terms which requires the pet food company to have a minimal amount of fat and not only are we required to put a minimum amount, we're required to put a max.

对于这类产品来说，如果

On those particular types So if

比如我们做的Annamaet Lean低脂款，为了符合标准，脂肪含量只能在7%到9%之间。

it says lean, like we make a lean product, Annamaet Lean, to be within the standards, we're only allowed a minimum of 7% fat and a maximum of 9% fat.

而且我们还必须保证每克或每公斤含有特定最低热量值。

And we're also required to have a certain minimal amount of kilocalories per gram or kilocalories per kg.

但如果你看到‘体重管理’、‘胖狗专用’、‘塑身款’这类名称，这些也是AAFCO认证的术语，但热量含量可以任意调整。

But if you see the name weight management, fat dog, fit and trim, any of those other terms, those are AAFCO approved terms, so you get any amount of calories in them.

有意思。

Interesting.

我最近看到另一家公司推出的‘体重管理’款，脂肪含量居然是我们Annamaet Lean的两倍。

Like I recently saw a bag of weight management at another company, they have twice the amount of fat in it than we do in Annamaet Lean.

我不明白，你怎么可能指望狗狗靠这种高脂肪的饮食减肥呢？

I don't know how you would expect your dog's gonna lose weight on a diet with that high of fat.

真有意思。

Fascinating.

但大多数人只看标签上的最低值或最高值，根本不会深究。

But most people just look at the label and they see minimum or max, and don't think about.

我们之所以在官网为每款产品都公布独立实验室的分析数据，就是出于这个目的，而且我们还在不断升级，持续把样品送去做第三方检测，所以这些数字会有波动。

What we're trying to do is that's why we put the average independent lab analysis on our website for each product all the way down through and we're upgrading it because we're continually sending out samples to independent labs so those numbers are gonna fluctuate.

你比行业内那些大型膨化粮厂商规模小多了。

I mean, you're a smaller manufacturer than some of the giant kibble companies across the industry.

这些数值会不会因为生产批次不同而有变化？

Does it change per, what would we think of it, batch or something like that?

不应该有太大差别，嗯，明白了。

It shouldn't, And Okay.

但总会有一些例外情况。

I mean, you're always gonna get an outlier.

你知道，如果没把批次混匀，这一批的脂肪含量可能会高一点。

You know, if they don't mix the batch rate, maybe this one's gonna have a little more fatter.

但我对它的稳定性还挺惊讶的。

But I'm pretty impressed with how consistent it is.

明白了。

Okay.

其中一个问题是，一些大型干粮厂商可能在多个工厂生产，那样的话差异就更大了。

One of the problems is some of the bigger kibble companies might be producing at multiple plants and do they have a variation that way.

有意思。

Interesting.

我都已经被震撼两次了，这才过了二十分钟，我就直说了。

Okay, so I've had my mind blown up twice already and we're twenty minutes in, so I'm just saying.

咱们再聊聊下脚料这个概念吧，因为大多数人从小都觉得这东西很恶心。

So talk us through a little bit more on the concept of byproducts because most of us grew up of the mind that that's icky.

这东西不好。

That's bad.

这可不是我们想要的。

That's not something we want.

自从行业变化之后，这种说法还成立吗？

Is that still accurate since the change of the industry?

不，我觉得现在好太多了。

No, I think it's improved greatly.

我的意思是，有些东西过去能用，现在根本不能进了。

Mean, you know, there are certain things that you just can't put in that you used to.

没错。

Right.

大家一直担心里面到底掺了些什么。

You know, there was always a concern about what was actually in there.

我仍然建议避开的一种产品是肉骨粉。

One of the products I'd still recommend staying away from is something like meat and bone meal.

比如说，如果我用的是鸡肉粉，那里面就必须有鸡肉。

Like for instance, if I'm using chicken meal, it has to have chicken in it.

所以我建议大家注意看具体的成分名称。

And so I tell people look for specific term ingredients.

如果写的是家禽，那必须是鸡肉、火鸡肉或者鸭肉。

So if it says poultry, it's got to be chicken, turkey, or duck.

只要写的是鸡肉，那就必须是鸡肉。

Chicken means it actually has to be chicken.

鱼粉可以是好几种不同的鱼做的。

Fish meal, it could be several different kinds of fishes.

所以问题在于，这周可能是三文鱼，下周就可能换成罗非鱼了。

So one of the problems with that is it could be salmon this week, it could be tilapia next week.

但如果标签上写的是三文鱼，那就必须是三文鱼。

But if it says salmon, it's got to be salmon.

尤其是肉骨粉，可能来自任何一种哺乳动物，想想这背后有多大的不确定性。

And especially with meat and bone meal, it could be any mammal, which think about what that opens up.

像肉骨粉这种成分，厂家必须标注钙、磷和蛋白质含量，但不一定需要说明具体来自哪种动物。

So with something like meat and bone meal, basically you're required to report calcium, phosphorus, protein levels, but not necessarily what animal it came from.

我总是跟人说，要找具体的名称，比如牛肉粉就一定是牛肉。

I always tell people look for specific terms like beef meals gotta be beef.

猪肉粉就一定是猪肉。

Pork meals gotta be pork.

对。

Mhmm.

肉骨粉可能来自各种不同的原料。

Meat and bone meal could be any number of things.

但如果是‘粉’，就不能包含喙、爪子这类东西。

But in meal, you're not allowed to put in a beak's feet, anything like that.

一旦变成‘副产品’，情况就不一样了。

Once it opens the byproducts, changes a bit.

明白了。

Okay.

这个信息很有用。

That's good to know.

我们对这个有什么了解吗？

Do we have any sense of this?

我们之前主要聊的是干粮。

We've talked primarily about kibble.

那这些规定对罐装、冷冻或脱水食品也适用吗？或者说，食物形式变了，规则会不会不一样？

Does or how does this apply in a canned or a frozen or a dehydrated or, you know, does anything change if the type of food changes?

AAFCO的规定适用于所有类型的产品，不管是罐装的。

AAFCO regulations or AAFCO rules apply to all different type products, whether they be canned.

显然生食不会用肉粉，因为它是生的。

Obviously raw is not going to be using a meal because it's raw.

所以会有这些区别，但罐装、风干或者其他类似的产品，都还是要遵守AAFCO的规定。

So there's going to be those kind of things, but as far as canned or air dried or anything like that, they still have to follow the AAFCO regulations.

明白了。

Okay.

我就是想问这个。

That was my question.

如果有什么变化，比如转到冷冻生食这类产品的话。

If anything changed, if it went to the, like the frozen raw some of those kind of things like that.

问题是有些公司太小了，根本没人注意到他们。

The problem is some companies are small enough they fly under the radar.

好吧，我得提一下这个，因为太巧了——刚看完超级碗，那则大农场狗狗的广告特别火。

Okay so I'm gonna have to throw this in because it's so timely we just had the Super Bowl and there was that huge farmer's dog ad.

那你跟我们说说这个概念吧。

So speak to us about this concept.

这是一种低温烹调的类型。

That's a gently cooked concept.

他们的想法是，担心生食会有细菌和污染，对人类健康有风险，但另一方面又觉得干粮煮得太过了，于是就想，不如试试低温烹调。

The idea is that they're concerned that raw you know you're worried about the bacteria and contamination to the human health aspect and everything and then on the other hand they think well kibble's overcooked so I got an idea let's start it gently cooked.

你觉得这除了是营销手段之外，还有什么实际意义吗？你怎么看这个概念？

Do we think there's anything other than a marketing ploy in this, or how do we feel about this whole concept?

我个人没做过相关研究，所以没法评价。

Me personally, I haven't done any work with it, so I couldn't judge it.

我知道这可是风投公司眼中的热门项目，他们往里砸了大把钱。

I do know that it is a hot commodity for venture capital firms, and they're dumping a ton of money into it.

我真怀疑这事儿长远来看能不能赚到钱。

I honestly wonder if it's going to be financially sustainable over time.

天啊，他们连超级碗广告都投了。

It had a Super Bowl ad for God's sake.

我的意思是，这行里有钱可赚。

I mean, you you know there's money in

没错。

it.

对啊。

Right.

说白了，咱们得认清现实。

Well, mean, let's face it.

我们从2008年就明白一件事，宠物行业根本不怕经济衰退。

I mean, one thing we learned in 2008 is the pet industry's recession proof.

所以现在钱到处都在流。

And so there's money being thrown around all the time.

我最近看到一家大型金融机构的报告，说宠物行业到2030年将增长三倍。

And I just recently saw a report from one of the big financial institutions that claimed that the pet industry is now going to triple by 2030.

想想看，2030年，才七年以后。

Think about that, 2030.

就剩七年了。

It's only seven years.

疫情期间，人人都养了狗？

Everybody bought a dog during the pandemic?

我不确定。

I don't know.

我觉得这部分原因还得回到我以前说过的事——宠物越来越像人了。

I think it part of that goes back to the the I think I've talked about it before the humanization of pets.

现在它们早就不是简单的宠物了。

Whereas you know now they're not pets.

它们是家庭的一分子。

They're parts of the family.

就跟孩子一样。

They're just like kids.

愿意花更多的钱，也开始明白不同产品之间的区别。

Are willing to spend more and they're also starting to understand that there is a difference in products.

当我谈到不同的NASH等级和蛋白质质量的差异时，现在就能解释为什么货架上两款产品看起来几乎一模一样，价格却能差上十到十二美元。你可能会想，这家公司是不是在坑你？其实未必，可能是另一家在低价倾销。

When I start talking about the different NASH levels and the difference in protein quality, it pretty much now explains why you could have two products on the shelf next to each other that virtually read almost identical and the difference in price could be $10 or $12 a bag and you think well this company's ripping me off well maybe that company is not ripping you up maybe the other company's underselling.

挺有意思的，好吧，这算是我给自己过情人节的礼物了，让我对这个话题有了全新认识，我以为自己已经懂不少了，真不错，干得漂亮。

Yeah interesting stuff okay well this has been my Valentine's treat for myself to have my brain blown up on topic I thought I was pretty good on it's good good job.

送你的情人节礼物，太棒了，我喜欢，大家记得常请我回来，我继续给你们开脑洞。

My valentine's gift to you excellent I love it everybody keep having me back I keep blowing your mind

我喜欢我的工作，因为能学到有趣的东西，这个就属于这类。

I mean I love my job because I get to learn cool stuff This falls in that category.

没错。

So that's right.

谢谢你，罗布。

Thank you, Rob.

非常感谢。

I appreciate it.

一如既往，如果你有任何问题或想法，我们非常期待你的反馈。

As always, if you have any questions or input, we'd love to hear from you.

本期节目的说明和相关资源链接请访问 puredogtalk.com。

The show notes and links to resources on today's topic are available at puredogtalk.com.

欢迎在评论区留言，或发邮件至 Laura@PureDogTalk.com。

Drop us a note in the comments or email to Laura@PureDogTalk.com.

记住，这个播客是为你制作的。

Remember, guys, this podcast is for you.

如果你有什么想了解的，随时告诉我。

So if you wanna know something, give me a holler.

我们可以专门为你做一期节目。

We'll do a podcast for you.

如果你不介意的话，能不能帮个忙？

If you wouldn't mind, you could help me out here.

花几分钟去 iTunes 给我们留个评价吧。

Take a couple minutes to visit iTunes and give us a review.

犬展管理员协会是《纯种犬谈话》的忠实支持者。

The Dog Show Superintendents Association is a proud supporter of pure Dog Talk.

我们的犬展管理员们，是让犬展顺利运转的辛勤工作者。

Our dog show superintendents are the hardworking people who make the dog show function.

他们积极推动纯种犬圈内的教育与指导工作。

They are advocates for education and mentorship in the purebred dog fancy.

下次参加犬展时，别忘了去管理员柜台看看。

So stop by the super's desk at your next show.

告诉他们你有多喜欢《纯种犬谈话》，也为他们的支持点个赞。

Tell them how much you love Pure Dog Talk, and give them a shout out for their support.

今天就到这里了。

That's all for today.

感谢您收听《纯种狗谈话》。

Thank you for joining us on Pure Dog Talk.