RSR573 - Greg Giorgio - Hybrid Studio: From Deep Snares and Cue Sends to Creative Mixing Techniques

那边就有一个麦克风，

There's just a microphone out there that

哦，那太好了。

can Oh, great.

你知道，能听到人们说话。

You know, hear people talking.

所以，靠这些设备，我们通常能沟通得挺好。

So, yeah, between those things, we can usually communicate pretty well.

当然，每个人在耳机里都能听到我们，这很容易做到。

Certainly, everybody can always hear us in the cans, like that's very easy to do.

对。

Yeah.

但有时候听他们跟我说话还挺费劲的，即使是这样，比如，我可以按下这个监听麦克风，能听到那个房间里的所有声音，但那是通过一个舒尔小型混音器，上面有很狠的压缩。

Hearing them talking to me sometimes is a struggle, even So like, alright, I can I can hit this listen microphone, and I can hear everything in that room, but that is going through like a Shure mini mixer that has ruthless compression on it?

你一打开它，就能听到各种交流声，如果有人在那时候敲一下军鼓，那声音能把你脑袋震掉。

You turn it on, and you hear all this AC, and if somebody hits a snare drum when that thing is on, it'll take your head off.

哦，所以它不是有限制的？

So Oh, so it's not it's not limited?

是的。

It is.

但是增益调得很大。

But It's just gained way

每个，每个都调得很大，因为如果你要听到离麦克风远的人正常说话，那就得把增益调大，而且在控制室里它设置得很响，每当我把它调低，我就听不到他们说话了。

every every it's gained way up because, like, if you're gonna hear somebody who's away from that microphone talking in a normal way, well, it's gotta be gained way up, and and it's it's set pretty loud in in the control room, and whenever I turn it down, then I can't hear them talking.

这就像在跳舞一样。

It's just it's this dance.

所以我要说一个仍然有点挑战的事情是，嘿，我们是不是应该在那边放一个对讲麦克风，给那些做配音的人用，特别是当房间里有鼓的时候。

So I'll say one thing that is still a little bit of a challenge is, hey, do we put a talkback microphone out there for, like, whoever's doing the overdub, especially when you've got drums in the room.

关键就是当房间里有鼓的时候。

That's really the thing is when drums are in the room.

只是用来说话的，你知道，就像SM7那样的，不会把我的耳朵震掉。

Just to talk into, know, just like an s m seven or something, like, it's not gonna take my head off.

我可以把它放在推子上，然后听着调低音量。

I could put it on a fader and just listen and turn it down.

好的。

Alright.

准备好了吗？

You ready?

准备好听Ledge给你出的主意了吗？

You ready for Ledge's solution for you?

可以试试。好的。

Can try Alright.

所以你要做的是，在你的Pro Tools会话里创建一个辅助轨道。

It So what you do is you create an auxiliary track in Pro Tools in your session.

好的。

Okay.

在那个轨道上，你去下载一个叫Mutomatic的免费插件，m-u-t-e-o-m-a-t-i-c。

And on that track, you're gonna go get the free plugin called Mutomatic, m u t e o m a t I c.

我忘了那是谁做的。

And I forgot who makes that.

抱歉。

Apologies.

你知道那个吗？

Do you know that one?

我知道那个。

I do know that one.

其实，我帮你找会更快。

In fact, is that is that I'll find it for you faster.

所以，那些摇滚明星也在听。

So and the rock stars are listening.

他们就像在说，拜托，各位。

They're like, come on, guys.

我知道。

I know it.

哦，Sound Radix。

Oh, Sound Radix.

当然。

Of course.

当然。

Of course.

Sound Radix。

Sound Radix.

好的。

Alright.

所以你去拿Mutomatic，把它放在那个IO的最后一个插件槽位上。

So you go get Mutomatic, and you're gonna put that at the last plug in slot on that IO.

然后在那之前，你可以选择你想用哪一个。

And then before that, you you can choose which one you wanna use.

对我来说效果很好的那个限制器是Massey L2007。

The one the limiter that has worked great for me is the Massey l 2,007.

喜欢

Love

它。

it.

这个插件已经存在很久了，在AAX和Pro Tools里都能用。

Which has been around for ages and works in a a x and Pro Tools.

所以我就在那里放一个Massey，把L2007挂上去，然后把输入开到最大。

And so I get a Massey on there, and I put the l 2,007 on there, and you just dime it all the way input.

然后你再复制一个，再挂一次，同样开到最大。

And then and then you take it, and you duplicate it, and you do it a second time and dime that as well.

所以那个限制效果简直疯狂。

So it's like insane o limiting.

哇。

Wow.

好的。

Alright.

现在唯一的诀窍就是输出电平。

Now the only trick is the output level.

你有两个选择。

You have two options.

一个是你把推子留在零位，然后把第二个限制器的输出旋钮调到合理的水平；或者你把限制器的输出开到最大，然后一直把那个推子保持在非常低的位置。

One is you leave the fader at zero, and you just turn the output knob of the second tooth limiter down to a reasonable level, or you leave the limiter outputs all the way up, and you just always keep that fader really, really low.

明白了。

I see.

但问题是，当乐队停下来，磁带停止播放，乐队在休息的时候，它就会突然打开。

But what happens is when the band when I stop tape and the band is just chilling, it pops open.

那个自动静音功能会打开，然后你就会有一个极度压缩的麦克风放在地板上。

The mute o matic opens up, and then you have this ultra compressed microphone out there on the floor.

我通常的做法是，从鼓组中选择一个头顶麦克风，因为它通常是高质量的电容麦克风，而且声音干净，增益良好。

And what I do is I usually pick one of the overhead mics on the drum kit because it's usually a high quality condenser, and then it's a clean good, clean, gained up sound.

这样一来，如果有人敲军鼓，就能捕捉到。

And that way, somebody can hit the snare.

这会有点烦人，因为其他声音都会被盖住，但声音不会很大，而且你永远不会把音箱搞坏。

It'll be annoying because it'll make everything else disappear, but it won't be loud, and you won't you won't ever blow up your speakers.

太棒了。

Very cool.

那

The

除非你不小心把那一路的音量推到最大。

Unless you accidentally turn that track all the way up to zero.

对。

Right.

当然。

Of course.

那会把你的头震掉的。

That'll take your head off.

嗯，这太聪明了。

Well, that's brilliant.

对，我能看出来。

Yeah, I could see it.

所以双重限制器真的能把一切都锁住，什么都不会漏过去。

So the double limiters just really keep everything locked, nothing gets passed.

我觉得最好的保险措施，就像你说的，把第二个限制器的输出调低，这样就不会把耳朵震坏了。

You've got I your own mean, the best fail safe is, like you said, turning the output of the second limiter down, then you can't blow your head off.

就是说，根本不可能出问题，而我们这里缺的就是这个。

Like, there's no way to do it, and that's what we're missing here.

只是不知道那个调音台接的是什么，但它是直接接到功放或者什么的。

It's just don't know what that mixer is plugged into, but it's plugged directly into an amp or something.

声音很大，而且就藏在这个录音室的某个地方。

It is loud, and it is hidden somewhere in this studio.

而且要去把它调到一个合适的音量，非常困难。

And like to go and get it to turn it to a volume that would work is very difficult.

所以我特别喜欢你的解决方案。

So I love your solution.

我觉得这很棒。

I think that's great.

谢谢，兄弟。

Thanks, man.

而且这在我的录音室里效果非常好，而且令人惊讶的是，你只需要很少的量就能听清每个人在说什么。

And it's worked really well for me in the studio, and it's surprising how little of it you need to hear what everybody's saying.

但是，唯一的小问题，其实也不算问题，就是运行这些插件通常会产生延迟。

But, the only caveat, which isn't really a problem, is that it it's it creates latency usually to have those plug ins running.

所以你会听到一点奇怪的回声效果。

So you get a little bit of a funny slapback echo sound.

所以如果磁带没在转的时候，你只是想弄清楚某个部分，你得记得，你知道的，可能得再把它关掉。

So if it's ever in there when the tape's not rolling, and you're just trying to work out a part, you have to remember to, you know, probably turn it off again

当然。

Sure.

然后静音，否则听起来可能会有点奇怪。

And mute it, or else you it might sound a little funny.

而且它能让最后那下镲片的延音持续很久，因为压缩得太厉害了。

And it can make the sustain of that last cymbal hit just go on for ages because it's so compressed.

但这真的效果很好，自从我开始这么做，我就能轻松听清每个人在说什么。

But it really works great, and I've and ever since I started doing that, I've been able to easily hear what everybody's saying.

作为乐队，当它开着的时候，你也能听清房间里每个人在说什么，所以聊天交流起来更容易。

As a band, you can when it's on, you can hear what everybody's saying in the room too, so it may it's easier to talk and have the conversations.

那有没有那种被压碎、双重限制的声音？

Has that has that smashed, like, double, you know, double limited sound.

比如，那有没有启发过你的一些音色？

Like, has that ever inspired any sounds for you?

我是说，鼓声可能会听起来很疯狂。

Like, I mean, drums might sound insane.

对。

Yeah.

当然有。

Like Of course.

然后我就想，为什么我不一直这样压缩头顶麦克风呢？

And then I go, like, why am I not always compressing the overheads like that?

然后我把音轨的输出录到另一条音轨上，这样每次过一遍就录一遍，就是为了留个底。

And then I take the output of the track, and I print it on another track so that it's printing with each pass just so I've got it, you know.

不过说实话，如果开了Mutomatic，其实录不下来，但我确实这么干过，也录下来了。

Although, actually, I guess you it doesn't really print if Mutomatic is on there, but I've done it where I've I've printed it.

我还设置过录一个版本。

I've set it up to print a version of it too.

但最后呢，这就像其他那些小技巧一样。

But then in the end, it's sort of like it's sort of like other tricks.

到了混音的时候，我就觉得，最后根本用不上。

Then I get to the mix, and I'm like and I don't end up using it.

直接又扔掉了。

I just throw throw it away again.

我就觉得，好吧。

I'm like I feel like, alright.

也许在我动它之前，它本来就是好好的。

Maybe it was fine before I ever messed with it.

对。

Yeah.

但这是个非常棒的技巧，因为在我们做录音的时候，沟通真的太重要了。

But it's a great, great trick because communication's so crucial when we're doing these tracking sessions.

对吧？

Right?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

绝对。

Absolutely.

对。

Yeah.

你知道，沟通不好会让所有人都很沮丧，我也说不清。

It just you know, poor communication bums everyone out, and I don't know.

大家需要的是灵感，而不是沮丧。

People have to be inspired, not bummed out.

对。

Yeah.

沟通确实非常重要。

Communication is very important.

其实，你知道吗，我想回头问问你，你刚才说，为什么我不一直这样限制头顶麦克风呢？

Actually, you know, I wanna tap back on you you said, hey, why don't I limit the overheads like this all the time?

我得说，在我大部分职业生涯里，我对头顶麦克风只是加一点压缩或者根本不加，我觉得那已经很好了。

And I gotta say, for most of my career, I've just put a little bit of compression or nothing at all on the overheads, and I thought that was just great.

我会把房间麦克风、鼓组前方的麦克风狠狠压缩，还会放一些特色麦克风，那才是我把声音弄脏的地方。

And I would smash the crap out of the room mics, front of kit mics, I'd put up character mics, and that's where I'd grime a thing up.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

最近，我不知道是偶然还是我一时兴起。

Lately, I don't know if it's by accident or just what I felt like doing.

我也不太清楚。

I don't know.

但我最近一直在给头顶麦克风加上一些重型压缩器。

But I've been putting some heavy duty compressors on the overheads.

你知道，这取决于素材，比如，天哪，我不确定，1176把所有按钮都按下去用在头顶麦克风上也能行。

You know, it depends on the material, like, man, I don't know, eleven seventy six with all the buttons in on overheads can work.

我的意思是，如果你想要那种效果，那是一种特定的声音。

I mean, if that's what you're looking for, it's a certain sound.

然后比这更狠的是devil lock。

And then even more ruthless than that is the devil lock.

偶尔，如果鼓手打得不太用力，镲片也不多，你把devil lock用在头顶麦克风上，只要你不介意他们一敲镲片，声音就会像要爆炸一样。

Every once in a while, if the drummer is not playing too hard and not too many cymbals, if you put a devil lock on the overheads, as long as you don't mind when they do hit that cymbal, it's gonna go like it's gonna explode a bit.

那听起来会非常非常酷。

It can sound very, very, very cool.

我喜欢处理镲片的声音。

I love doing cymbal.

我觉得这是个很棒的建议。

I think that's a great tip.

然后，你知道，提醒一下，我们总是可以录下未压缩的头顶麦克风信号，然后做一些这种技巧处理，把它放到第二条平行压缩轨道上，这样我们就能控制它。

And then, you know, the reminder is we can always have the uncompressed overheads recorded, and then we're doing some of this trickery to, you know, have it on an second parallel compression track where we have some control over that.

而且我知道，我们还没真正聊到你的背景，这个我们一会儿可以谈谈。

And I know, we didn't really get into your even your background yet, which we can talk about here in a moment.

但是，比如，你知道，跳到现在的作品，你做的那些唱片，让我想想。

But, like, you know, jumping forward to current stuff, a number of the records you're making, let's see.

我刚才在想的是哪一张来着？

Which one was I even thinking of as I was just thinking that?

嘿。

Yo.

你说得对。

You're right.

《Kids That Fly》，就是那张。

Kids That Fly, that one.

比如你做的那些唱片，有一点我特别欣赏，就是你的作品列表，我们在节目笔记里也放了，Rockstars，你可以点进去听听Greg做的那些很棒很棒的唱片。

Like, those you're making one one thing I really appreciate about your discography, which we have in the show notes, Rockstars, you can click through and go listen to this great great records that Greg's making.

但你做的唱片风格大胆，很有个性。

But you're making you're making bold and stylistic records.

比如你做的那些唱片里，鼓的部分玩得很酷，或者对房间声和压缩的运用特别巧妙，听起来真的很带劲。

Like, you're doing records where the drums do a cool thing, or, like, there's, you know, there's a really clever use of room sound and compression, and that's exciting to hear, you know.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

谢谢你指出这一点。

I appreciate you pointing that out.

这正是我想做的。

That is what I'm trying to do.

对。

Yeah.

我想努力让声音听起来丰富多彩，很有意思。

I'm trying to to reach in and make things sound kind of colorful and interesting.

而且我发现，尤其是摇滚乐，挺有意思的，你知道吗。

And I find that, like, especially with rock music, it it it's kind of funny, you know.

所以，你知道，我是在垃圾摇滚时代长大的，那时候我听了很多垃圾摇滚乐队。

So, you know, I grew up during the grunge errands, so I used to listen to all these, you know, grunge bands.

当然，我是听着这些长大的，所以我对它有感情。

And, of course, I grew up with it, so I've gotten appreciation for it.

当我听那些老歌的时候，真不敢相信他们几乎没怎么修饰。

And when I listened to some of that old stuff, it's incredible how, like, they didn't really stylize it much at all.

他们就是直接录的。

They just kind of recorded it.

副歌来了，没有额外的乐器，真的没什么制作，这就是那种音乐的全部理念。

A chorus comes, you don't get extra instruments, you really don't get very much production, and that's kind of like that's the whole idea with that stuff.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

我完全经历过那个阶段。

And I I was totally there.

我一开始是更偏向朋克摇滚的心态。

I started off in in much more of like a punk rock mindset.

我当时就是随便摆几个麦克风，让声音听起来粗糙、带劲。

I was just kinda like putting up microphones, making it sound scrappy and go.

但随着时间的推移，我越来越喜欢在声音上做创意。

And as time has gone on, I've gotten much more into being creative with the sounds.

而且如果不做一些让音乐更出彩的处理，尤其是在副歌部分，或者我喜欢在之前没有过的情况下加入一段有点诡异感觉的桥段，那听起来就不太像一张正式的唱片。

And it doesn't sound really like a record until I've done some of those things that really make it pop, especially in a chorus, or, you know, I love there to be, like, a spooky sounding bridge if we haven't had anything like that before.

对。

Yeah.

而且说实话，有些人比我做得更极致，也比我做得更好，但我就是喜欢把这种元素加进去，尤其是加到摇滚歌曲里。

And, like, honest and and there are people that that do it even more than me, and and better than me, or whatever, but I I just love the idea of trying to put that in, especially into rock songs.

你知道，如果你听流行歌曲，那都是这样的。

You know, if you're listening to a pop song, it's all that.

全都是有趣的声音，然后再加上很棒的人声。

It's it's all interesting sounds, and then you've got a great vocal.

但是摇滚歌曲，如果你不花心思去处理，让它们变得像万花筒一样丰富多彩，那可能会有点平淡无奇。

But rock songs, they can be a a little bit bland if you don't get in there and try and, like, make them a little bit of a kaleidoscope.

我很喜欢做这种事。

I love doing that.

我会尽我所能，你知道的。

I'll do whatever I can, you know.

哦，就多录一把吉他，然后加个颤音效果，带点奇怪的相位变化。

Oh, just record an extra guitar, and we'll put a, you know, a tremolo that's got some sort of weird phasing thing.

我们会让它在两个音箱里这样来回飘。

We'll make it go like this in the two speakers.

但它会藏在正常的那把吉他下面，你懂的，就是正常版本的那把。

But it'll under the regular one, you know, under the regular version of it.

或者像你说的，某个段落把鼓打得稀巴烂，或者用两套鼓，一套正常打，然后第二段副歌来的时候稍微拖一点拍子。

Or like you said, know, smashing the crap out of the drums for a section, or having two drum kits, the normal one happening, and, oh, the second chorus comes as a little bit of a drag.

嘿，如果我们再加一套鼓，就一个麦克风，完全放开打，然后我们把声音全放到这边来，怎么样？

Hey, what if we add in a second drum kit, just one microphone, totally smashed, we just pan it right over here?

对。

Yeah.

这些就是我在做这些唱片时喜欢干的事。

Those are things I like to do with these records.

谢谢你注意到了。

And thank you for noticing.

这真的很酷。

It's very cool.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我觉得这很棒，兄弟。

I think it's great, man.

而且我在你做的很多其他唱片里也听到了这种效果，希望我们待会儿也能聊聊那些。

And I'm hearing that in a bunch of the different records that you've done too, which hopefully we'll get to talk about too.

但另一个压限工具真的很酷，我现在对它特别兴奋。

But the another smashing tool that is really cool, and I'm very excited about it right now.

不知道你有没有机会试过。

I don't know if you've had a chance to check it out.

就是Spectra1964的C610插件，是Spectra和Audio Punks合作做的。

It's a it's the Spectra1964 c six ten plug in that Spectra made with audio punks.

好的。

Okay.

我还没听过这个插件。

I have not heard the plug in.

是Racuna的。

It's a Racuna.

对吧？

Right?

有些声音你可以随便折腾，想怎么弄就怎么弄。

You can just you can go crazy with it on some sounds.

所以这是一种非常激动人心的方式，来处理所有这些鼓的声音。

So it's a really exciting way to take all those drum sounds.

那么，你是查德·布莱克的粉丝吗？

And, you know, are are you a Chad Blake fan?

这也是你的风格吗？

Is that sort of like your world too?

当然。

Absolutely.

他是最棒的之一。

He's one of the best.

对吧？

Right?

我也很喜欢他的采访。

I I love his interviews also.

我很喜欢他的作品。

I love his work.

我也很喜欢他的采访。

I love his inter interviews.

他和汤姆·威兹的合作真的很棒。

His work with Tom Waits is really cool.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

真的，真的。

Really, really

汤姆·威兹就是一个很好的例子，说明了对声音进行极端处理的做法。

And Tom Waits is a good example of, like, kind of doing extreme treatments of sounds too.

是的。

Yeah.

虽然有些只是乐器编排上的效果，你懂吗？

Although some of that's just in the instrumentation, you know?

哦，对，他们确实很投入。

Oh, yeah, they go for it.

我有个笑话，不知道你喜不喜欢，但我觉得汤姆·维茨他们花了好多功夫，让这首歌听起来像是即兴发挥的。

I I I have a joke, I don't know if if you'll like this joke or not, but I feel like Tom Waits, like, they put all of this effort into making this song sound like they're off the cuff.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

你知道，就像那种。

You know, like, do.

听起来他们就像是在那儿随便玩玩，随手就弄出来了。

They sound like they're just like, oh, these guys, they were just vibing, they did this.

我觉得那些歌背后下了好多功夫。

I feel like so much work goes into those songs.

就像

Like

对。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

是吧？

Right?

我觉得什么都是这样。

Everything, I think.

但听起来一点都不刻意。

But it does not sound precious like that.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得如果你心情想听点怪的东西，汤姆·威茨绝对是不二之选。

I think I think if, you know, if you're in the mood for something weird, Tom Waits is is the way to go.

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嗯，我在想那些和汤姆合作过的人。

Well, I'm trying to think of, the various people that work with Tom.

我知道Jakir King和他合作过，所以他可能对早期那些一起做的唱片有很多话要说。

I know that Jakir King did, and so he's probably got a lot to say about, the early records and, that that they were doing together.

你知道，汤姆·韦茨的音乐，或者说他的歌词，就像画面和歌词的结合，就像一些闪过的片段，让你想，那是什么？

You know, Tom Waits' music or his lyrically, his songs are like it's like imagery and lyrics and, like, you know, kinda like flashes of things that make you go, what was like, what was that?

你懂吗？

You know?

就是那些很棒的描述性歌词，这也是我在录音中欣赏的一点，而且你说得对，我们讨论的就是如何让我们的声音更具画面感和描述性。

Just just great descriptive lyrics, and and it's one of the things I appreciate in recording, and to your point, what you're talking about is the ways that we can make our sounds much more graphic and descriptive.

我们不一定总是要单纯地录音。

We don't always just have to capture things.

当然，知道怎么进行纯粹的录音是很好的。

Like, it's wonderful to know how to do a pure capture.

对。

Mhmm.

特别是当你进入舞台和管弦乐录音的领域时，你最好知道怎么纯粹地捕捉声音，因为乐器本身就创造了那些意象和音色。

Especially, you go into the world of of stage and orchestral recording, like, you better know how to do a pure capture of something because the instruments are creating all that that that imagery in tone.

对。

Mhmm.

但当我们进入录音室时，很多责任也落在我们工程师身上，所以我们越懂得你所说的那些技巧，就越好。

But when we hit the studio, lot of that responsibility can fall on our lap as the engineers too, and so the more we know how to do what you're talking about, the better.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你是在为歌曲服务。

I mean, you're trying to serve the song.

你是在试着带出一些情感。

You're trying to bring out some emotion.

你是在试着让它听起来有趣。

You're trying to make it just sound interesting.

对。

Yeah.

这挺奇怪的。

It's weird.

我觉得我在用效果器和不用的之间，用失真和不失真之间，经历了一段完整的旅程，而且现在还在不断演变。

I think that I had a whole journey with that, using effects versus not using effects, using distortion versus not using distortion, and it's still evolving.

所以，我记得我刚开始录音的时候，那是很久以前了。

So like, I remember when I first started recording, like, a really long time ago.

我录的第一样东西是在，你知道的，Porta Studio 1997，1990年，对。

The first thing I ever recorded was on, like, you know, Porta Studio 1997, 1990 yeah.

四轨机。

Four track.

那时候确实挺粗糙的，你知道吗？

It it was it was rough, you know?

而且你

And You

还留着吗？

still got it?

你还留着吗？

You still got it?

没有了。

No.

没有了。

No.

但其实我大概四年前还用过一次。

But I I have actually used one, like, maybe four years ago.

我去别人的录音室，他们有一台，我当时就说，咱们得用这个。

I I went to somebody else's studio and they had one, and I was like, we gotta use this thing.

而且你听我说，我们确实用了它。

And check this We we did use it.

我们录到了那些声音。

We got the sounds.

效果很粗糙。

It was grimy.

对我们当时做的事来说，效果很棒。

It was great for what we were doing.

然后呢，像是，电机不转磁带卷了。

And the something like, the the motor stopped turning the tape.

磁带就是不动了。

The tape just stopped turning.

所以我们当时有的

So what we had

那就是铅笔派上用场的时候了，兄弟。

That's what pencils are for, man.

把铅笔的橡皮头塞进去

Put a pencil eraser in

然后转磁带。

there and spin the cassettes.

手动转，真的很老派。

Do it do it manually, really old school.

所以有点失望。

So it was a little bit of disappointment.

最后我们还是通过输入监听来录音。

We ended up actually still recording through input monitoring.

我们还是在把它搞大，你懂我意思吧？

We were still blowing it up, you know what I mean?

所以对，好吧，它没录到磁带上，但确实经过了机器，沾了点它的脏味。

So yeah, okay, it didn't go to tape, but it did go through the machine and got some of its grime.

但我记得这个，我第一次尝试录音是在我朋友的厨房里录我的老朋克乐队，我读过怎么用，我调好了电平，然后架起了三个麦克风，因为我们需要一个给吉他之类的。

But I remember this though, so the first thing that I ever tried recording was my old punk band in my friend's kitchen, and I had read how to use it, and I got proper levels, and I put up, you know, the three microphones, because we needed one for guitar or something like that.

我们录了，但听起来特别没劲。

And we recorded it, and it sounded incredibly lame.

我是说，谁知道我当时用的什么麦克风？

I mean, just who knows what microphones I had?

谁知道我把它们放哪儿了？

Who knows where I was putting them?

你知道，就是听起来很没劲。

You know, it just just sounded lame.

然后我就走了，他还在那儿瞎捣鼓。

And and I left, and he kept messing around with it.

有意思的是，他现在还在搞音乐，但对录音这事儿其实没什么兴趣。

And the interesting thing is he he's still a musician, and he doesn't really have that much of an interest in recording at all.

但我走了之后，他打电话给我，说：天哪，我把这些鼓弄出来声音超棒。

But I left, and then he calls me up, and he's like, oh my god, I made these drums sound awesome.

我说：得了吧，你连那机器怎么用都不知道。

I was like, come on, you don't even know anything about that machine.

我全都看过了。

I read all about it.

我读了基本操作方法。

I I read the basics of how to do this.

他说，不不不，兄弟。

And he's like, no, no, no, man.

你应该过来听听看，而且他家离我只有十分钟的路程。

You should come down and check this out, and he only lived ten minutes from me.

所以我掉头回去他家，他放给我听，听起来真的很棒。

So I turn around, go back to his house, and he plays it, and it sounds awesome.

一个麦克风录的，完全爆掉了。

One microphone recorded, totally blown up.

就是完全开到最大，彻底爆掉，因为他是鼓手，他还说，是不是听起来很棒？

Just totally, just dimed, totally blown up, because he was the drummer, and he was like, doesn't it sound awesome?

关键是，确实听起来很棒。

And like, here's the thing, it did sound awesome.

我就说，那你做了什么？

I was like, well, what'd you do?

然后他就给我演示。

And he's like, he shows me.

全是红灯，完全过载了，我当时真的很纠结。

It's all red lights, and it's totally overloading, and I was really conflicted.

我就想，这绝对不对，但听起来确实比我刚才做的那个平庸的东西好多了。

I was like, this is absolutely wrong, but it sounds absolutely better than the lame thing that I just did.

那个时刻真的让我印象深刻。

And the moment really stuck with me.

后来时间过去了，1997年我没觉得自己是音响工程师，1997年或99年也没觉得自己是制作人，你知道，直到2000年左右才开始。

So time goes on, I didn't fancy myself a sound engineer in 1997, or a producer in 1997, or '99, or you know, it didn't start until more, you know, 2000.

我才真正迷上这些东西。

I really got into this stuff.

所以总之，哇。

So anyway Wow.

我扯远了。

I'm rambling.

等我真正开始录音的时候，我们已经去过其他一些录音棚了。

Once I did start recording, right, we had been in some other studios.

我们去了一个用ADAT的录音棚，没什么特别的。

We went into an ADAT studio, unremarkable.

我们去了Kurt Ballou的录音棚，

We went into Kurt Ballou's studio,

不错啊，兄弟。

Nice, man.

哦，你认识Kurt Ballou？

Oh, you know Kurt Ballou?

Salem。

Salem.

对。

Yeah.

他上过我们的节目。

He's been on the show.

他非常棒。

He's great.

哦，他简直太厉害了。

Oh, he's unbelievable.

而且他是我早期的偶像之一。

And he was an early influence of mine.

对吧？

Right?

所以在我所有的CD里，我有一些东西。

So out of all the CDs that I had, I had a few things.

我们想让谁来录制我们的硬核乐队呢？

Who do we want to record our hardcore band?

然后我翻遍了所有的CD，挑了几个人，我当时想，不，我觉得就是这个人，我觉得是Kurt Ballou。

And looked through them all, picked a few people, I was like, no, think it's this guy, think it's Kurt Blues.

所以我们去了一个录音室，我记得当时在马萨诸塞州的尼德姆。

So we went to a studio, which at the time was in Needham, Mass, I think.

哇。

Wow.

而且那里跟他现在的录音室完全不一样。

And it was not what his current studio is at all.

就是在一个仓库里。

It was just it was in a warehouse space.

他有一台，我记得是八轨的，一英寸的卷对卷录音机。

He had, I believe, an eight track, reel to reel, one inch.

他有一个Mackie调音台。

He had a Mackie board.

有意思的是，这些细节我都还记得。

He had it's funny how I remember these things.

他还有两台不错的麦克风前置放大器。

He had, like, two nice preamps.

我不知道那是什么，但我记得他这么说过。

I don't know what they were, but I remember him saying that.

他还有，我记得，两台distressor压缩器，那对他来说还挺新鲜的。

And he had, I think, two distressors, which were new to him.

他当时就问，你了解这些distressor吗？

He was like, you know anything about these distressors?

不了解，我确实不知道，因为我什么都不懂。

No, I did not, because didn't know anything.

哦，对，Soundcraft Ghost调音台。

Oh, yeah, Soundcraft Ghost.

那就是他用的设备。

That's what he had.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以他给我们乐队录了一张EP，大概就是一个周末搞定的那种。

So he recorded our band doing just an EP over a weekend kind of a situation.

而且，即使在1999年，他就已经知道该怎么做了。

And man, even in 1999, he knew what was going on.

他把声音做得特别脏、特别有冲击力，效果非常好。

He made it grungy as hell, and it was great.

他把磁带机推得很猛。

He hit the tape machine really hard.

他的磁带机对此反应非常好。

His tape machine responded really well to it.

我不知道他后来做了什么，但效果就是又棒又有攻击性。

I don't know what he did after that, but it it was it was good and aggressive.

然后呢，

And

你们当时用的是Evertune琴桥吗？

Were you using the Evertune bridges?

他有没有也给你们拿出吉他来，帮你们调音什么的？

Did he did he bust out guitars for you guys as well to keep you in tune and all There were

那里乐器很少，真的很少。

there were, like, there were very few instruments there.

我们都是自己带乐器去的。

And we brought our own instruments.

我记得我们的吉他手用的是一把花了两百美元买的LTD吉他，你知道，那时候就是那种朋克摇滚的感觉。

I I remember our guitarist was using like an LTD guitar that he bought for $200, and like, you know, it was it was was punk rock back then.

不过话说回来，我确实被他做的事情深深打动了。

But anyway, so I was really inspired by what he had done.

他就是那样，搭了个棚子，然后凭着他的音乐耳朵、他的技术、他的品味，把这个地方变成了一个能做出好唱片的地方。

He he's just like he just set up this place, he took his, you know, his musical ear, his skills, his taste, put it into this place, and started making really good records.

所以我也受到了启发，我就想，你知道吗？

So I was kind of inspired by that, and I was like, you know what?

我也想试试做那样的事情。

I would kind of like to do that too.

我之前在录我们的样带的时候也录过一些东西，所以我想，让我试试吧。

I've I've done a little bit of recording on our demos and this, like, let let me try that.

所以我就这么做了，我租了一个仓库，摆了一些设备，录了一些东西什么的。

So I did do that, and I got this warehouse space, and I set up some gear, and I recorded some stuff or whatever.

一开始我录音的时候用了太多的效果器和压缩，后来我在ProSound Web和其他论坛上到处看。

And I I initially had been recording with way too many effects and compression and stuff like that, and then I had read all over, like, ProSound, Web, and other boards.

不。

No.

不。

No.

压缩会毁掉那种感觉。

Compression kills the vibe.

不。

No.

它会毁掉声音，你知道的。

It kills you know, it ruins the sound.

所以那之后我就没用压缩了。

So I then I didn't use any compression after that.

结果更糟。

And that was even worse.

我当时就想，天哪，用太多反而更好，你知道吗？

I was like, oh my god, using too much was better, you know?

所以做了几年之后，我觉得我找到了一个不错的状态。

So then I kind of felt like I I felt like I hit a good spot after doing it for a few years.

实际上，当Kurt在塞勒姆建他的录音室时，我去了，因为我一直给他发邮件问问题。

And I actually went when Kurt was building his studio in Salem, because I kept emailing him and asking him questions.

我最后买了他那台Soundcraft Ghost，我们就是用那台机器录的那张EP。

I ended up buying his Soundcraft Ghost that we made that EP on.

我得去取那台Soundcraft Ghost。

I had go up to get the Soundcraft Ghost.

我当时就说，嘿，如果我去取Ghost，能不能顺便帮你建一下录音室？

It was like, hey, if I come up and get the ghost, maybe can I, like, help you build the studio a little bit?

顺便请教你一些问题？

Maybe pick your brain a little bit?

他说，好啊，好啊。

And he was like, yeah, yeah.

所以我去了，虽然没帮上什么忙，但确实请教了不少。

So I went up, and I did very little to help him, but I did pick

我喜欢那句话，'我上去拿Ghost'。

his I like that quote, if I come up and get the ghost.

对。

Yeah.

是吧？

Right?

然后我给他看了其中一个

And so I showed him one of the

尤其是在塞勒姆那种地方。

Especially in Salem, of all places.

哦，那当然。

Oh, of course.

对。

Yeah.

你肯定能遇到很多鬼。

Plenty of ghosts you get.

对吧？

Right?

然后我就把我正在做的乐队混音给他听，他说，听起来不错。

And and so I showed him the mix of my band that I was working on, and he was like, sounds pretty good.

他说，太干净了。

He's like, it's too clean.

我就说，太干净了？

And I was like, too clean?

他说，哦，太干净了。

He's like, oh, it's way too clean.

我当时就说，我根本不知道你在说什么。

I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

听起来挺好的。

It sounds good.

我喜欢，而且我其实没有……

I like and I I didn't.

说实话，我真的不知道他在说什么。

I I I to be honest, I didn't know what he was talking about.

我确实知道我喜欢他为我们做的，而且我也确实觉得那样更好，但我不知道那本质上是因为，怎么说呢，失真还是谐波增强，或者别的什么，或者两者都有。

I I did know that I liked what he did for us, and I did know that I kinda liked that better, but I didn't know it was inherently because of, like, I don't know if you wanna say distortion or harmonic, you know, enrichment, or whatever, or all of the above.

但我觉得我花了一段时间才从用太多压缩和失真，到完全不用，再到找到合适的量，然后更进一步，知道怎么用得更有风格。

But it took me a while, I think, to kind of recover from using way too much compression and distortion to none, to then figuring out the amount that's good, and then beyond that, you know, how to use it stylishly.

我觉得在那段演变过程中，我有一种好奇心，我当时就想，对，也许就该这样。

And I would say that that of evolution I had this curiosity, and I was like, yeah, maybe that is the way.

随着时间推移，我遇到了彼得·卡迪斯，开始和他合作，我们开始讨论失真。

And as time went on, I ended up meeting Peter Kadis and started working with him, and we started talking about distortion.

他说，我不知道，你知道，我做过的最喜欢的东西，上面都有很多失真效果。

He's like, I don't know, you know, the things that I like the best that I've been doing have, like, kinda like a lot of distortion on them.

他特别出名的一件事，你知道，就是第一张Interpol专辑。

One of the things in particular, you know, that he's known for is the first Interpol album.

如果你听那张专辑，上面有很多失真。

If you listen to it, there's a lot of distortion on it.

对。

Yeah.

所以他那时候就已经开始把失真变成他风格的一部分了。

And and so he was he was like already engaged in making that part of his style.

我也开始想，你知道，也许我也想把它变成我风格的一部分。

And I started thinking too, I was like, you know, maybe I'm gonna maybe I wanna make that part of my style too.

因为想想Kurt在做的，我喜欢，他把失真变成了他风格的一部分。

Because thinking about what Kurt had been doing, I like, he makes that part of his style.

我喜欢那样。

I liked that.

现在我在这里工作。

Now I'm working here.

我喜欢彼得做的混音。

I like the mixes that Peter's making.

我觉得，我觉得我想探索这个。

He's I I think I think I wanna explore this.

对吧？

Right?

所以我就这么做了。

So so I did.

我开始越来越多地加入它，并试图弄清楚，好吧。

I started putting more and more of it and trying to figure out, okay.

你加了一些进去。

You put some in.

你得把镲片的高频部分去掉一些。

You gotta take some high end away from the cymbals.

比如说，如果你想加入越来越多的压缩和失真，前后应该怎么处理呢？

Like, how do you have to treat it before and afterwards if you wanna get more and more of this, you know, compression and distortion in?

对。

Yeah.

有意思。

Interesting.

这个习惯一直延续到今天，因为比如说，你刚才提到的那些玩飞行的孩子们，现在也在试着在我的主输出总线上加一点限幅器，这还挺新鲜的。

It continues to today because, like, for instance, the the kids that fly stuff you were talking about now is trying to put, like, a little bit of a clipper on my master bus too, and that's kinda new.

而且有时候我听到效果，就会想，这听起来有点像我在混音上加了个失真踏板。

And, like, sometimes I hear it, and I go, you know, it's starting to sound a little bit like I've got a distortion pedal on this mix.

我跟你说，我越这么做，大家越喜欢。

And I'll tell you, the more I do it, the more people love it.

我就觉得，好吧。

And I'm just like, alright.

不错。

Cool.

听起来是这样。

Sounds that way.

太好了。

Great.

棒极了。

Awesome.

我也很喜欢。

Love it too.

我觉得

I think

这很棒。

it's great.

这正好提醒我们，虽然我们自称工程师。

It's just like it's a good reminder that this stuff we're doing I know we call ourselves engineers.

我们觉得这里面有很多科学成分。

We we think of this as very there's a lot of science involved.

但归根结底，你知道，对于听的人来说，这其实就是艺术。

But at the end of the chain, you know, for somebody who's listening and just experiencing, it's just art.

就是音乐。

It's just music.

我的意思是，我们就像画家，试着挑选颜色，搞清楚自己是印象派、点彩派，还是超写实派，就像在没有相机的年代，用细线网格把透视画得完美无缺那样。

I mean, we're just painters, and we're trying to, like, choose paint colors and figure out what, like, whether we're impressionists or whether we're, like, pointillists, or whether we're, you know, the hyperrealists, you know, with our little wire grid trying to get our perspective exactly perfect because we didn't have cameras yet, you know?

对。

Yeah.

就像做事有很多种方式。

It's like there's a variety of ways to do things.

对。

Yeah.

可以是光滑的油画，也可以是把颜料甩得满屋子都是。

It it can be a slick oil painting, or it could be splattering paint around the room.

我的意思是，这两种都可以。

I mean, it definitely can be both.

我觉得，好的制作人和工程师会做的是，他们试图把自己的品味提炼出来，然后以某种方式与乐队的风格相配合。

And I think that, you know, I think that what good producers do, what good engineers do, is they try and, like, distill their own taste down to a way that will kind of, like, work with what the band is doing.

对。

Mhmm.

乐队是第一位的。

The band is first.

歌曲和乐队是第一位的。

The song and the band is first.

你明白吗？

You know?

就像，我听他们的安排。

Like, I take my orders from them.

但同时我也会想，好吧，我知道我喜欢合作的那些东西。

But I also am kind of thinking about, alright, I I know the sort of, you know, things that I like to work with.

也许对于这个特定的项目，主要会是干净清晰的，就像一幅光滑的油画。

Maybe maybe for this particular project, it will be mostly, you know, clean and clear like a slick oil painting.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

我想要一些真正的粗粝感。

I want some pops of real dirt.

在这首歌的结尾，如果情绪变得非常激动和强烈，那么就会有一些失真效果出现。

At the end of this song, if it gets really emotional and intense, well, there's gonna be some distortion coming out.

那将是结尾处的一个新亮点。

And that's gonna be just a new thing that happens at the end.

这是发展的一部分。

That's part of like development.

特别是如果，比如说，这首歌在结尾时发展得不够充分。

Especially if like, let's say the song didn't develop enough by the end.

你会觉得，嗯，这首歌在结尾时并没有真正提升起来。

You're like, well, the song wasn't really it didn't really lift at the end.

它没有给我带来那种满足感。

It didn't give me the payoff.

嗯，如果你开始把那些压扁的室内麦克风加进来，如果你开始给 vocals 加更多延迟，给 vocals 加更多失真，那最后一段副歌就会变得不一样，现在它更强烈了，即使其他什么都没变，你也是在为歌曲服务，虽然你是在加入自己的一点小特色，像是特效口味那种东西。

Well, if you start bringing in your crunched up room mics there, if you start bringing in more delay on the vocals, you start bringing in more crunch on the vocals, it kinda changes that last chorus, and now it's more intense, even though nothing else has really changed, and you are serving the song, even though you're kind of imparting your own little, like, special effect taste kinda thing on it.

对。

Yeah.

嗯，我是说，你知道，有意思的是我们在用绘画来打比方，但我是说，这有点像，因为我们在做工程，或者甚至制作，我们和作为艺术家的乐队合作，就好像 Jackson Pollock 是艺术家，然后别人实际上在拿画笔，你知道，替他在画布上泼洒颜料之类的。

Well, I mean, you know, it's funny as we're making the painting analogy, but I mean, it's sort of like because we're enge when we're engineering, or even producing, and we're working with a band who's an artist, it's as if Jackson Pollock was the artist, and then somebody else was actually handling the paintbrushes, know, splattering it on this canvas for him or something like that.

你知道，这有点像，我们做的事情确实不一样。

You know, it's sort of like, it is different what we do.

这是，这是，这是团队合作，是诠释性的，诸如此类。

It's a it's a it's a group effort and interpretive and all that kind of stuff.

但很有趣。

But a lot of fun.

我不知道。

I don't know.

你让我现在想做一个 track，就是所有的 verse 都超级干净，完美，哦。

You're making me think of wanting to do a track now where it's like, all the verses are like super clean, pristine Oh.

小心点，然后突然间，副歌听起来就像有人在玩一样。

And careful, and then all of a sudden, chorus just sounds like somebody's fun.

就像在整个混音和每个元素上踩了一个爆炸失真踏板，然后就像，哦，是的。

Just drops a, like, a kaboom distortion pedal on the entire mix and on every element, and it's just, like Oh, yeah.

冲着你尖叫。

Screaming at you.

你知道吗？

You know?

那真的是——我是说，当你谈到垃圾摇滚时期，很多那种东西，你知道，涅槃乐队就是那种安静-大声，安静-大声。

That was really I mean, when you talk about the grunge area too, it was like the a lot of that stuff, you know, Nirvana was like quiet loud, quiet loud

对。

Mhmm.

那种方式，你知道，就是那种在副歌时踩踏板的感觉。

Approach, you know, was the kind of, like, stomping on pedals for the choruses.

确实是这样。

It is like that.

这算是一种新的做法。

Was sort of a new approach.

你知道吗？

You know?

对。

Yeah.

某种程度上，你说的就是这个意思，只不过不是靠后期制作——我知道他们有一点制作成分，但他们是在麦克风前真刀真枪地做出来的。

In a way, it's it's what you're saying, only without doing it with with I know they did a little bit of production, but they they did it for real in front of the microphones.

其实，你描述的那种东西正是我最喜欢的。

And actually, what you're describing is sort of some of my favorite stuff.

我特别爱那种感觉。

I I I love that.

你可以把T恤蒙在鼓上，打得很轻，配上闭合的踩镲，那种感觉。

You could do, like, t shirts over the drums, playing really quietly, closed hi hat kind of a deal.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

也许第一段主歌里没有吉他。

Maybe there are no guitars in the first verse.

也许那要留到第二段主歌才出现，你懂吗？

Maybe that's saved for the second verse, you know?

但副歌一进来，可能所有东西都爆发了，你懂吗？

But the choruses come in, and maybe everything's exploding, you know?

然后一切都紧绷着，接着又慢慢退下来。

And everything is stressed, and then it recedes down.

说实话，那是我最喜欢的结构。

Honestly, that's sort of my favorite form.

非常安静、压抑的主歌，爆发力十足的副歌，再加一段诡异的桥段。

Really quiet, tamped down verses, really explosive choruses with a spooky bridge.

就像，那是我最喜欢的歌曲编排方式。

Like, that's sort of my favorite, like, setup for a song.

对。

Yeah.

反正我就是喜欢这样。

That that's what I like anyway.

那真是太棒了。

And and That's awesome.

而且我所有的时间都花在这上面。

And and that's what I spend all of my time doing.

也不是说我把所有时间都花在这上面，对。

I it's not I don't spend all of my time yeah.

我确实会去捕捉好的声音，这很好，我也会花时间在这上面。

I I definitely capture good sounds, and that's great, and I spend time on that.

说实话，我觉得这并不怎么有挑战性。

I find it it's not very challenging, to be totally honest with you.

我知道麦克风该放哪儿。

I know where to put the microphone.

我知道用什么前置放大器。

I know what pre amps.

我们这里的信号链已经设置好了。

We've already got our signal chain set up here.

比如，它们听起来不错。

Like, they sound good.

真正的艺术在于你怎么把这个东西搞砸。

The art really is how are you going to mess this thing up?

你懂吗？

You know?

就是说，你怎么给它注入一些活力？

Like, how are you gonna give this thing some life?

你明白吧？

You know?

它本身并不会从纸上跳出来。

It it doesn't lift off the page just as it is.

这就是我之前提到垃圾摇滚时代那些东西的意思。

And that's kind of what I was referring to with the grunge era stuff.

所有东西都录得很好。

Everything was recorded really well.

他们只是没有真正投入制作，当然也有例外。

They just didn't really put the production in a lot of the there are exceptions.

但很多时候，他们并没有像我们说的那样去制作，比如把鼓弄得很安静，用T恤盖住鼓，或者让鼓声变得开阔、失真、充满空间感。

But a lot of times, they didn't really put the production in like we're saying, to do things incredibly quiet, like t shirts over the drums to wide open, distorted, roomy drums in the court.

他们真的没这么做，你知道吗？

Like, they didn't really do that, you know?

这是过去十年左右才出现的情况。

That's something that's come up in the past, like, ten years or something.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这挺有意思的。

And I think it's a lot of fun.

你准备好开启你在音频或娱乐行业的职业生涯了吗？

Are you ready to launch your career in the audio or entertainment business?