你并不是不擅长理财，只是你在逃避它——与Abi Foster

OREO原创播客。

OREO Original Podcast.

我交谈过的大多数人都不清楚自己有多少钱。

Most of the people I talk to have no idea how much money they have.

你的金钱观念，其实也类似于你的金钱行为，对吧。

Your money mindset, which is also kind of like your money behavior Mhmm.

这种观念在七岁时就形成了，而且我确实看到，如果不知道你开始的数字，也许也不知道你想达到的数字，你怎么知道如何到达那里呢？

Is shaped by the age seven and I do see that without knowing the number that you're starting with and hopefully maybe the number that you want to end with, how do you know how you're going get there?

很多人看着别人的投资组合说，我从来没投资过，所以我是个失败者。

So many people look at people's investment portfolios and say well I've never invested so therefore I'm a failure.

但他们都是从零开始的。

Well they all started at nothing.

这确实是个很难的话题。

It is a really challenging topic.

我们不会培养下一代，让他们有足够的信心去反抗这种观念，并说，对。

We don't raise our next generation to feel confident enough to kind of push against it and be like, right.

我想学。

I wanna learn.

有一个理财习惯，每个人都应该立刻改掉。

One money habit everyone should stop immediately.

大家好，欢迎回到RISEwithroxie的又一期节目。

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of RISEwithroxie.

今天我们来聊聊钱。

Today, we are talking about money.

这是我们所有人都关心、焦虑、也离不开的东西，但很多人从来没学过怎么真正理解它。

It's something that we all think about, stress about, and need, but so many of us were never taught how to actually understand it.

从税法、养老金到预算、投资，再到财务自由到底意味着什么，钱不知怎么就成了我们生活中最重要却又最忌讳的话题之一。

From tax codes and pensions to budgeting, investing, and what financial freedom really means, money has somehow become one of the most important and yet the most taboo topics in our lives.

今天的嘉宾就是来改变这一点的。

Today's guest is here to change that.

Abi Foster是一名特许会计师、个人理财专家，著有《金钱手册》，还是Allent公司的创始人，这家公司致力于让金融教育对每个人来说都通俗易懂、充满力量，而且没有专业术语。

Abi Foster is a chartered accountant, personal finance expert, author of The Money Manual, and founder of Allent, a company on a mission to make financial education accessible, empowering, and jargon free for everyone.

这一集的内容就是关于掌控你的金钱，改变你对金钱的看法，并且无论你从哪儿开始，都能建立起信心。

This episode is all about taking control of your money, changing the way you think about it, and building confidence no matter where you're starting from.

在我们开始之前，别忘了点一下关注按钮。

Before we start, please don't forget to hit that follow button.

我们每周一和周四都会更新新节目，帮助你崛起、再崛起、超越自我。

We have new episodes every Monday and Thursday to help you rise up, rise again, and rise above.

Abi，让我们崛起吧。

Abi, let's rise.

Abi，欢迎来到RiseWithRoxie。

Abi, welcome to RiseWithRoxie.

我对今天的聊天感到非常兴奋。

I am so excited for today's chat.

非常感谢你

Thank you so much

邀请我来。

for having me.

真是太荣幸了。

It's such a pleasure.

好温馨啊。

So cozy.

你看起来真舒服，我特别着迷，那些没看视频的人可能不知道。

Well, you look so snug and I'm obsessed for those of you who aren't watching on video.

阿比把我的显化书当成了她穿搭的完美配饰，我既骄傲又着迷。

Abi has got my manifest book as the perfect accessory to her outfit and I couldn't be more proud and also obsessed.

好，我要从这个问题开始：如果你能纠正一个让人们最焦虑的金钱误区，那会是什么？

Okay, I'm gonna start with this question which is if you could correct one money myth that causes people the most anxiety, what would it be?

拿自己的日常和别人精心展示的生活比较，可能是我第一个要纠正的。

Comparing your everyday to someone else's highlight reel would probably be my first.

如果只能说一点，那就是不要看到别人已经走了很远，而自己才刚开始，就觉得自己失败了，因为你还没到那一步。

If I had nothing else I could say, it would be don't look at their further down the road to your day one and think that you're failing because you're not there.

很多人看到别人的投资组合，就说自己从来没投资过，所以觉得自己是个失败者。

So many people look at people's investment portfolios and say, well, I've never invested, so therefore I'm a failure.

其实，所有人都是从零开始的。

Well, all started at nothing.

每个人的投资组合都是从零开始的。

Everyone's investment portfolio starts with nothing.

所有财务和你的金钱观念也一样，总得在某个时候改变。

And it's the same with all finance and even your money mindset, like it has to change at some point.

有些人很幸运，他们的童年和生活中有人讨论钱，财务是个重要话题。

Some people are very lucky that they have childhoods and maybe influences throughout their life where money is discussed and finance is a big conversation piece.

但有很多人像我一样，小时候家里根本不谈钱。

And there are many people like myself, where money really wasn't discussed at a young age.

所以我在十几岁、二十几岁，甚至现在三十几岁，花了很多时间来改变自己对金钱的看法。所以，如果我能让大家做一件事，那就是不要拿别人的第50天来和自己第0天比。

And therefore I had to spend a lot of time in my teens, 20s and even into my 30s now changing my mindset around money, so yeah, if I could ask people to do one thing, it'd be don't compare yourself to other people's day 50 when you're on day zero.

我觉得这真的是放之四海而皆准的好建议，对吧？

And I think that is just like great advice across the board with everything, to be honest, isn't it?

好的。

Okay.

我今天有很多想聊的，而且我肯定会问很多关于钱、情绪、心态，还有我们和钱的关系的问题，因为我觉得这真的是很多问题的核心。而且我觉得你也说过，钱其实很少只是关于数字的。

I've got so much I wanna go through today and I'm I'm definitely gonna ask a lot of questions about money and emotions and mindset and our kind of relationship to money because I think it is so at the core of a lot of this and I think even you say is that money is sort of rarely about just numbers.

从你的经验来看，金钱行为占多大比重，还有什么是……

From your experience, how much of money behavior and what is...

首先，你能定义一下金钱行为吗？然后你觉得其中有多少是在成年之前就形成的？

Firstly, can you define money behavior and then also how much of that do you think is shaped long before adulthood?

嗯，说到形成，其实有个数据说，你的金钱心态，也就是你的金钱行为，大概在七岁就定型了。我确实也看到这种情况。

Well, when it's shaped, technically there's this kind of stat that says your money mindset, which is also kind of like your money behavior, is shaped by the seven and I do see that.

我在学校教金融课，我特别喜欢。我从一年级教起，就是五六岁的孩子，一直教到十三年级，差不多十八岁。

So I teach finance in schools and I absolutely love it and I teach from year one, which is age roughly five, six, all the way through to year 13, so like 18.

你能看出那些在家会聊钱的孩子和不会聊钱的孩子之间的区别，因为他们说出来的话、聊钱时的自信，还有那些回避这个话题的人，都不一样。

And you can tell the difference between kids that are talking about money at home and kids that aren't, because it's just the things that they come out with, the confidence they have around just discussing money and people that shy away from it.

所以我觉得，金钱心态在七岁就形成这个说法很有道理，因为我亲眼在七岁孩子身上看到过。

So I would say I do put a lot of weight into that money mindset being developed by age seven because I see it firsthand in seven year olds.

那也太小了吧。

That is so young.

确实非常小。

It's incredibly young.

好的，那孩子们说些什么会让你觉得，嗯，这肯定是在家里聊过的？

Okay, so what are kids saying that makes you think, yeah, that's being talked about at home?

你知道吗，有时候就是他们用的说法，比如他们会说，我妈妈说钱买不来幸福，我就想，好吧，行吧。

Do you know what, sometimes it's like phrases they use, like they'll be like, well, my mommy says that money doesn't buy happiness and I'm like, okay, cool, sure.

或者他们会说，没钱了，或者他们会说，我爸爸讨厌交税，我就想，好吧，行吧。你看，他们正在构建自己对生活应该是什么样子的认知，而他们唯一能参考的就是父母或周围大人的话，所以你确实会从孩子嘴里听到一些关于财务和钱的小短语，这往往是他们从父母那里潜移默化听来的。比如很多父母会说，我不知道该怎么跟孩子聊财务。

Or they'll be like, no, there's no money left or they'll say like, my daddy hates paying taxes and I'm like, alright, okay and like, it's, you're building, they're building blocks of what they think life should be and look like and all they've got to take away from is what their parents or their adults around them say and so you do hear little phrases from young minds about finance and money, it often is what they've subconsciously heard from their parents, like there are a lot of parents that say, I don't know what to talk about when it comes to finance with my kids.

我就说，你可能在不知不觉中就已经在做了，因为你每天都在做财务决定，他们会听到，你却没意识到你在传递给他们。所以要非常小心，注意你在他们面前谈论财务时用的词，因为如果从小他们就开始相信一些限制性的想法，比如钱很稀缺，我们什么都买不起，这真的会让他们觉得连谈钱都不应该，因为那是消极的、粗鲁的，这可能比完全不懂更危险。

And I say, well, you're probably doing it without realizing like you're making financial decisions each day that they're gonna be hearing that you don't realize that you're imparting on them, so just be really careful with it be really careful with the words that you use around finance around them, because from a young age, if they start to believe really limiting and say, think that money is scarce and that we can't afford anything, it really does instill in them this belief that they shouldn't even talk about it because it's like negative and rude and that can be even more dangerous than when people just don't know anything.

你觉得有哪些常见的说法应该避免在孩子面前说，又有哪些更好的替代说法？

What would you say are like a couple of like, here are a few common phrases to avoid around kids and a few that you think would be like better, like switches?

这个很难说，因为显然每个家庭和文化对钱的态度都不一样，对怎么用钱也有不同的看法。但我会对父母说，如果你发现自己在孩子面前对钱有负面情绪，我知道在某些情况下这几乎不可能，但尽量避开他们那非常敏感和容易受影响的小耳朵，换个方式说。如果你要谈钱，也许可以更教育性一点，比如：好，我们只有这么多钱可以花在这些东西上，你觉得呢？

Well, it's hard to say because obviously each family and culture is different when it comes to money and what they believe is right to do with money, but what I would say to a parent would be if you catch yourself being negative about money around your kids, just, I know it can be impossible in certain situations, but try and move it away from their very, very sensitive and impressionable ears and talk about it slightly differently and if you are talking about money, maybe make it more educational and be like, right, we've only got this amount of money to spend on these things, what do you think?

然后把他们拉进来，围绕这个话题展开对话，同时也要强调，你可以通过工作赚更多钱，或者你可以通过花时间帮别人做事来赚更多钱，这类事情非常重要，就是不要总是以非常负面的方式谈论钱，因为这确实会直接影响到……

And kind of bring them in and be like, engage that conversation around it, but also reaffirming that like, you can make more money by doing a job or you can make more money from giving up your time to do something for someone else, that kind of thing is really important, just to not always talk about money in a really negative light because it does directly fall

直接

into

传到孩子的耳朵里，然后他们就会带着这些感受长大。

the ears of your young person and then they grow up with those feelings.

这只是生活的一部分。比如，我妈妈是理发师，所以我人生中很大一部分就是确保我的头发一直好看，这就是我。说实话，我不觉得六岁时头发上卷着发卷有什么奇怪的。有些人会觉得，对。

It's just part of life, like for instance, my mom is a hairdresser and therefore a whole big part of my life has been making sure my hair always looked nice, it's just who I am, I honestly don't think it's weird that as a six year old, I had my hair in rollers, some people Yeah.

钱和其他很多事情也一样，你习惯什么，什么就成了你的常态。

You know, and it's the same with money and lots of things, it's kind of what you're used to becomes your norm.

对，确实是这样。

Yeah, it's so true.

那么，如果这么早就开始接触这些，你觉得我们作为年轻人听到的一些常见的、没说出来的信念或信息是什么？特别是千禧一代和Z世代，他们听到了什么，可能影响了他们，然后他们又把这些带进了成年生活？

And so kind of if it's starting so young, what do you think are then some of these kind of like common unspoken beliefs or messages that we're hearing as young people and that, especially if you're looking at like millennials and Gen Z, what have they been hearing that is maybe impacting and then carry that they're then carrying into adulthood?

有几件事。我觉得一个是，成功和有钱人，他们越成功，有时候越快被拉下马。

Do a few things, I think one is that like successful wealth and like successful people, the bigger they get, sometimes the quicker they get torn down.

我们看到我们领域里一些了不起的女性，她们谈论自己的财富和生活，然后不知怎么的，她们因为谈论这些而被攻击。我觉得这真的很有害，而且会对下一代造成很大的伤害。他们会担心，如果自己努力成为下一个Roxie，下一个Amy Smale，会不会因为赚那么多钱而被攻击。我觉得这真的很可悲，也很危险，因为它阻止了，尤其是年轻女性的成长，真的阻碍了她们可能成为的样子，因为她们担心，如果我赚太多钱，就会被攻击。我真的很讨厌这样。

We see this from incredible women in our space that talk about their wealth and their life and then somehow they get torn down for talking about it, which I think is really damaging and I think it can do a lot of damage to the next generation who then worry that if they then try and aspire to be the next Roxie, the next Amy Smale, that they'll be torn down for trying to earn that amount of money and I think that's really sad and dangerous because it stops, especially in young women, their growth, it really does hinder who they could become because they're worried about, well, if I make too much money, then I'm just gonna be torn down and I really hate that.

然后另一个可能是，投资仍然被认为是男性的领域。我在教高年级的时候，比如13年级，也就是18岁的学生，我总会谈到投资，通常所有男孩都会举手，而女孩们则显得不太感兴趣，她们愿意听，但觉得这是金融中非常男性化的部分，所以不会参与。你知道吗，这其实还好，我们还在努力让这个领域变得女性化。所以很多年轻女性觉得，如果她们涉足金融，就会显得更男性化，这真的很荒谬。

And then maybe the other one is that investing is still very masculine, When I teach in the older years, so your year like 13, so if they're 18 years old, I always talk about investing and usually all the boys hands go up and all the girls hands, a bit like kind of not as interested basically, they're kind of happy to be listening but they still think of it as a very masculine part of finance and therefore won't get involved, which is, do you know what, fine, when it comes to this stuff, we're still in the process of feminizing it and I think so therefore for a lot of young women, they think that if they engage with finance that then they'll seem more masculine, which is ridiculous.

你觉得这些观念是从哪里来的？

Where do you think all that comes from?

哦，首先，女性直到五六十年代才被允许拥有自己的银行账户。而且你看看那些投资平台，都非常男性化，充满了金融圈男生的风格。这并不难理解，你在伦敦金融城走走，到处都是穿着西装、打着领带的男人，这对一个年轻女孩来说并不友好，她会想，我在这里面算什么？

Oh, the fact that women weren't allowed bank accounts on their own until like the 50s and 60s is a start and if you look at any of the investment platforms, they're all very masculine and very finance bro, you know, it's not hard, you walk around bank in the city of London and yeah, it's just core zips and glees as far as the eye can see and that isn't welcoming to a young girl that's thinking, well, where do I fit into this?

这大概就是我的观察。

That would probably be my observations.

你觉得为什么这么多人把金钱上的困难内化为失败，而不是把它看作是一种教育缺失、一种心态问题，或者是小时候被灌输的东西？

Why do you think that so many people internalize money struggles as a failure rather than seeing it a sort of like lack of education, a mindset, something that's been kind of like put on them from younger years?

我觉得他们把它当作失败，是因为社会总是告诉我们，如果我们在某件事上不优秀，那我们就一定是失败的。

I think they take it as a failure because society has always told us that like, if we're not incredible at something, then we must be a failure at it.

而实际上，金钱方面，很难说清楚什么才是真正擅长理财，因为我个人认为，成功对每个人来说都不一样。

And actually, money, it's really hard to figure out what being incredible with money looks like because I personally think success looks different for everyone.

你可能是一个在财务上真的很想拥有自己房子的人，所以当你达到拥有自己房子的目标时，那就是成功。而对我来说，拥有房子并不是我追求的目标，我更想通过其他方式积累财富，买一些让我开心的事情。所以如果我们俩放在一起比较，按照他们的标准，我可能算是失败的，因为我实际上是租房而不是买房。

You may be someone where financially you really want to own a home and therefore getting to that point where you own your own home is success whereas for other people like myself, owning a home isn't really the metric I'm looking towards, like I'm looking towards building wealth in other ways and looking to buy other things that make me happy and so therefore, if you put us up against each other, technically on their metric, I would be failing because I actually rent rather than own.

反过来，如果他们按照我的方式去投资，那他们买第一套房就会更难。

Whereas in the other way around, if they tried to invest the way I invest, it would make it harder for them to buy their first home.

所以情况就反过来了。

So then it'd be the other way around.

所以我觉得，对，大部分问题在于跟别人比较，这显然对很多人来说弊大于利，但就是这样。

So I think, yeah, the majority is comparing yourself to other people, which I think across the board obviously is something that hurts a lot of us more than it helps, but it would be that.

我觉得钱会引发很多不同的情绪，其中很多是像恐惧这样的情绪，

I think lots of different emotions can come up with money, you know, and a lot of those emotions are ones like fear,

羞耻，

shame,

也许还有对控制的需求。

perhaps like a need for control.

这些情绪实际上是怎么影响我们日常的金钱习惯的？

How are those emotions actually impacting our everyday money habits?

哦，是恐惧，恐惧是最大的问题，因为它阻止我们去深入了解自己的财务状况。

Oh, it's the fear, it's the fear that's the biggest problem because that stops us from investigating our our finances.

比如说，关于收入，很多人都不看自己的工资单。

So for instance, around your income, so many people don't read their payslip.

我老是提这个，我都有点担心大家会想，她能不能别说了？

I go on and on about this, I'm almost like, I'm worried that people are gonna be like, can she just stop?

不，我

No, I

不会听的。

won't hear it.

我知道，但前几天有人自称是税务代码女王，我当时就想，这正是我想要的炫耀，为什么不呢？

I know but someone came with a queen of tax codes the other day and I was like, that's it's already the flex I was looking for, why not?

就这么定了。

Let's go with it.

所以，说到最大的问题，就是对金钱的恐惧导致他们完全回避。

So when it comes to, yeah, the biggest problem is like fear around money leads to them completely, like complete avoidance.

他们每个月不看工资单，不查自己的钱都漏在哪里，也不关注那些将来可能帮到他们或者现在正在拖累他们的事情。

So, they don't look at their payslip every month, they don't look into their money leaks, they don't look into all of these things that could be helping them in the future or kind of hindering them right now.

所以，是的，我认识的很多人都告诉我他们不看工资单，因为他们不知道那是什么意思，这完全没问题，因为学校不教这个，所以谁会知道呢？

So, yeah, so many people I know tell me that they don't read their payslip because they don't know what it means, which is absolutely fine because we don't teach it at school and therefore, why would anyone know?

就连我的第一份工作，我都以为总有一天会有人告诉我怎么回事，对吧？

Even my first job, I thought at some point someone will tell me what's going on, right?

但他们从来不说。

And they just never do.

没人告诉你，你只能自己摸索。

No one tells you, you just have to figure it out.

如果你的父母在家不谈钱，或者他们没有传统的PAYE工作，因此没有工资单，他们也不知道。

And if you don't have parents that talk about money at home or you don't have parents that had traditional PAYE jobs and therefore had pay slips, they don't know.

所以你不知道自己不知道什么，然后这会导致更多的恐惧，因为你只会避开工资单，只是希望和祈祷每个月进来的钱是对的，但这并不保证，因为工资单实际上是你自己的责任，而很多人没有意识到这一点。

So you don't know what you don't know and then that leads to more fear because then you just avoid the pay slip and you just hope and pray that your money that's coming in every month is right, it's not guaranteed because your payslip is actually your responsibility and not a lot of people realize that.

然后，是的，这也涉及到其他方面。

And then yeah, it falls into other elements as well.

我们不看银行账单，因为我们担心会看到什么，然后我们没有意识到每个月都有两个订阅扣同样的钱，但因为你不看，你不知道，而且因为金额小，可能这里15英镑，那里20英镑，你没有意识到它会在这么长的时间里累积起来，实际上在你的生活中造成漏洞，但逃避是最糟糕的部分，我们只是把头埋在沙子里，我认为这源于我们一直在谈论的，那就是我们没有培养下一代足够的信心去反抗，并说，好，我想学。

We don't look into our bank statements because we're worried what we'll see and then we don't realize that every month there's like two subscriptions coming out for the exact same thing but because you don't look, you don't know and because it's small and it might be 15 pounds here, 20 pounds there, you don't realize that it adds up over such a long period of time and it's creating effectively leaks in your life, but avoidance is the worst part of it, we just put our heads in the sand and I think that comes from what we've been talking about, which is we don't raise our next generation to feel confident enough to kind of push against it and be like, right, I wanna learn.

说实话，我真的很希望看到这种改变。

And I would love to see that change, to be honest.

这就是为什么我做……

And that's why I do...

我在社交媒体上做的事情，就是让大家觉得这完全在自己的掌控之中，完全可行，而且超级简单。

What I do on social media is to make people feel like it's completely within their control and it's completely doable and it's super simple.

比如，如果我能跟我妈妈解释清楚，她呢，嗯，就不透露她年龄了，反正比我大，是个理发师，从来没怎么接触过理财，如果我能跟她解释明白，她也能大概听懂，那任何人都应该能听懂。

Like if I can explain it to my mom who is like a, well, won't out her age, but she's older than me and she's a hairdresser and she's never really engaged in finance and if I can explain it to her and she can like sort of get it, then anyone should be able to get it.

你能解释一下什么是PAYE吗？

Could you please explain what a PAYE is?

好的，如果一个人被归类为PAYE，通常指的是他受雇于别人，所以他有工资单，他的收入所得税和国民保险由雇主代扣代缴，这就是PAYE。

Yeah, so if someone is considered PAYE, often what we're referring to is them being employed by someone so they have a payslip where they pay their income, like someone else is paying their income tax and their National Insurance on their behalf, that's PAYE.

它的全称是“按收入征税”，跟自雇人士相对。

It stands for pay as you earn as opposed to someone that's self employed.

我觉得确实是这样，我理解当你被某件事压得喘不过气时，那种恐惧，是不是有点像那种“战斗或逃跑”的反应，嗯，其实是“战斗、逃跑或僵住”，对吧？

And I think it's true, like I do get, you know, when you are so overwhelmed by something, that fear, is that kind of like fight or flight response and well, it's fight, flight or freeze, isn't it?

所以我觉得你就是想逃避，不想面对，不想看银行余额，不想看账单。

And so I think that you just, you wanna run from the situation, you don't wanna face it, you don't wanna look at your bank balance, you don't wanna look at your statement.

这确实让人感到非常压抑，而且每当账单寄来或者类似的事情发生时，就会有一种恐慌感。我真的非常同情这些人。

You know, there is something, like, deeply overwhelming about it and there is a sense of, like, panic that can come up when any bill comes through the door or, you know, whatever it is and, like, it's so, I really just feel for people.

是不是因为人们缺乏教育，所以他们只是觉得，天哪，我理财能力不行，应付不了我可能会发现的情况？

Is it just because people don't have the education that they just think, oh my God, I just, I'm not good enough at finances to be able to cope with what I might find?

对，这确实是大家普遍的看法。

Yeah, that is genuinely the genuine consensus.

我问所有人，是什么阻止了你？

When I ask all of the people, I'm like, what stops you?

他们会说，我不擅长数学。其实没关系，理财不一定要擅长数学。

And they think, well, or they say things like, I'm not good at maths, that's fine, you don't have to be good at maths to be good at finance.

他们还会说，哦，我就是搞不懂，我就是这样的人，我不擅长理财。我讨厌这种说法。

Also, they'll be like, oh, it's just something that I don't get and it's just who I am, I'm just not good with finances, I hate that.

如果有人说，哦，我从来就不擅长理财，我会说，不不不，来吧，让我牵着你的手，我们一起前进，我们可以改变这个，因为几乎没有人会这样说阅读或文字，你不会听到有人说，哦，我从来不会阅读，所以我不打算去学。

If someone says, oh, I'm just never good at finance, I'm like, no, no, no, come on, let me hold your hand, let's go forward, we can change this because it's almost like we don't hear as many people say that about reading or words, people, like you wouldn't hear someone be like, oh, I've never been able to read, so I'm not gonna bother.

而且我觉得，不知为什么，一谈到财务，人们就特别容易说，哦，我数学从来就不好，所以我也懒得管我的钱。

And I think for some reason, when it comes to finances, people are very comfortable saying like, oh, I've math, never been good so therefore I'm not bothered about my finances.

这真的让我很恼火。我觉得如果我们能让人停下来，告诉他们，说实话，最难的部分其实就是把账目打开，把数字摆在眼前。其实可以很简单，比如在月底或者月初，你打开一个Excel表格，或者拿一张纸——如果你觉得Excel吓人，那也没关系，就用一张纸——把你有多少账户、每个账户里有多少钱都写下来。

And that, yeah, that is something that really frustrates me and I feel like if we could stop people in their tracks and say, honestly, the hardest part is just kind of having it open and having the numbers in front of you, it can be as simple as at the end, beginning, whenever at the month, you get an Excel sheet up or a piece of paper, if Excel's freaks you out, that's fine, a piece of paper and you just write down all of the accounts that you have and how much is in them.

说实话，这可能是最大的突破，因为你会恍然大悟，哦，原来我有这么多钱。

That can honestly be most like the biggest ground break because you can go, ah, right, that's how much money I have.

而我接触的大多数人，根本不知道自己总共有多少钱。

Whereas most of the people I talk to have no idea how much money they have in total.

他们只有一个大概的数字，知道这里可能有点钱，那里可能有点钱，但具体到精确数字，他们不知道。

They have a rough ballpark figure and they know maybe they've got some money here, maybe there's some money there, but they don't know to the number.

当他们知道精确数字后，就能从那里开始往前推进，然后想，好吧，我能做些什么让这个数字变得更好看，对我来说，富有是什么样子？

And when they know to the number, they can start to like go forward from there and go, right, well, what can I be doing to make that look better for me and what does wealthy look like to me?

对我来说，财务自由是什么样子？

What does financial freedom look like to me?

如果你不知道起点是多少，也不知道希望终点是多少，那你怎么知道该怎么到达那里呢？

And without knowing the number that you're starting with and hopefully maybe the number that you wanna end with, do you know how you're gonna get there?

好，那我们开始帮大家吧。我觉得我们已经明白了，问题在于缺乏教育，还有很多恐惧、羞耻和回避。而你在这里就是为了给大家提供一些信息，让他们开始觉得自己更有能力处理财务问题。

Okay, let's sort of start helping people then because I think that we understand that, look, it's this lack of education, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of shame, there's a lot of avoidance and you're here to kind of really give people some information so that they can start to feel like they're better equipped to deal with their finances.

好的。

Okay.

那我们从一个真的害怕打开银行应用的人开始吧。

So let's start with somebody who is really afraid to open their banking app.

他们不想看里面。

They don't wanna look in there.

他们不想看到背后的东西。

They don't wanna see what's behind it.

他们该从哪里开始？

Where do they start?

哦，我真不想这么说，但你……

Oh, I hate to say this, but you...

这有点像撕创可贴的情况。

It's kind of a rip the band aid off situation.

你得打开应用，看看最终的余额，看看里面的数字，然后如果可以的话，下载上个月的账单，不用更多，就上个月的支出和收入明细，然后过一遍，把清单放在面前，可以用笔标记，用荧光笔高亮，根据不同的项目来。

You have to open the app and look at the final, look at the number that's in there and then if you can download the last month, not more than that, just the last month of expenses and like ins and outs and go through them and just have a list in front of you and like kind of color, you can write on it, you can highlight it depending on what it is.

最简单的办法就是逐行检查，确保你清楚每一笔支出。

The easiest thing to do is go through line by line and check that you are aware of everything that's coming out.

只要心里有数就行了。

Just being aware, that's fine.

你只需要做到这一点。

That's all you need to do.

如果你第一件也是唯一一件要做的事是……

If the first and only thing you're gonna...

如果你只给我十分钟时间，我会建议你找到最终余额，下载上个月的账单，然后过一遍，确认你清楚每一笔支出，因为很多人打开银行对账单时会想，这每个月扣的是什么？

You've given me ten minutes of your time, that's what I would suggest is find the final number, download the last month and just go through and check that you are aware of everything that's coming out because for so many people, they open that bank statement and they're like, what is that every month?

他们没意识到有一笔小订阅费在扣，甚至更糟的是，他们的卡可能被用于他们从未同意过的消费。

And they don't realize that there's a small subscription that comes out or even right to the kind of catastrophe element of their card might be you being used for something that they never accepted.

所以这真的很重要，因为欺诈之类的事情经常发生，而且专门针对那些脆弱的人，而脆弱的人就是那些不管理自己财务的人，因为他们不知道发生了什么，这是我最担心的。

So it's really important because obviously fraud and all of that happens all the time and it plays on the vulnerable and the vulnerable are the people that don't engage with their finances because they don't know it's happening and that worries me the most.

很多年轻人和老年人是最容易受骗和遭遇欺诈的群体，因为他们不愿意去打理自己的财务。

Like a lot of young people and older people are the most likely ones to be impacted by scams and fraud because of their resistance to get involved with their finances.

有一件

One of

让我觉得最烦的事情就是，这些公司用的银行账户名称跟实际购买的东西完全对不上，所以我翻银行账单的时候就会想，这他妈是付给谁的？

the things I find the most annoying is that all these companies have different company bank names to what you're actually purchasing, so I'll go through my bank statements and I'm like, who the fuck was that to?

这笔钱是什么？

What is that payment?

然后我就快疯了，后来才反应过来，哦，那是我办公室的WiFi。

And I'm like going out of my mind and then I'm like, oh, that's like, you know, my office WiFi.

但那个名字太隐晦了，真的让人很抓狂。

But like, the name is so obscure and it's so frustrating.

对。

Yep.

而且我觉得这种情况也容易让人一下子慌起来。

And I find that that can also get you in a bit of a panic.

对。

Yep.

因为有时候我会想，我肯定是被骗了这么多钱。

Because like there are times where I'll be like, well, I'm obviously being scammed of all this money.

然后我又想，哦不，其实没有，那都是我自己的消费。

And then I'm like, oh no, I'm literally not, that was all me.

是啊，我知道，这真的很让人抓狂。

Yeah, I know, it's really so frustrating.

其实很简单，就是快速谷歌一下，因为大多数情况下，如果你谷歌公司名称，它会告诉你这是不是母公司，真的吗？

It is as simple as just obviously a quick Google because most of them, if you like Google the company names, it'll explain to you if that's the parent company who is Oh really?

那

The

这太明显了，我就想，为什么我

It's so obvious, I'm like, why did

没想到呢？不不不，这就是金融的问题，我觉得这是最近几年我才意识到的事情，因为有人问我，你为什么做你现在做的事情？

I not do No, no, no, this is the thing with finance, I think this is a thing, it's something that I kind of realized in the last few years because someone said, why do you do what you do?

我当时想，我没意识到我居然觉得这一切很简单，然后我意识到，其实不是的。

I was like, I didn't realize that I find this all, I'm like, well, it's so simple and then I realized actually, no, it's not.

我刚刚意识到，其实我们有一种方法可以做到这一点，我们可以简单明了地解释它，而不是像那些金融圈的人一样，故意把缩写和比喻搞得那么男性化、那么复杂。我们为什么不换个方式，把它做得非常简单呢？

I just realized actually there is a way that we can do this where we can explain it simply and we can go instead of all the finance bros out there that purposely make the acronyms and the analogies so masculine and so confusing, why don't we do this differently and we make it just really, really, really simple?

是的。

Yes.

你觉得在这个阶段，当人们还在建立认知的时候，他们看银行对账单时应该重点关注什么？

And how important is it do you think that at this stage while people are building awareness, what should they really look for when they're going through their bank statement?

哦，我正要说到我的节奏，我的...

Oh, I was gonna say going back to my pace of things, my...

如果我要给一个建议的话，比如我们每个月开始的时候，假设你开始有收入进账，你看着你的工资单，检查一下你的实发工资是不是和银行对账单上的金额一致。

If I have like one takeaway from if we're going through each, so the one, when you're starting the month, let's say you're starting with your income coming in and you look at your pay slip, check that your pay slip, like your take home pay matches what the pay is in your bank statement.

你永远不知道，事情可能会出错。

You never know, things can go wrong.

然后当你看着工资单的时候，我觉得你要注意三件事。

And then when you're looking at your pay slip, you wanna look for three things I would say.

我觉得第一点就是你的税务代码要正确。

I would say the first is that your tax code is right.

英国的标准税务代码是1257L，它指的是你在开始交税之前可以赚多少钱。

So the standard tax code in The UK is like 1257L and it refers to how much income you can earn before you start paying tax.

如果你的不是这个，也不一定意味着你的就是错的。

If yours isn't that, doesn't necessarily mean yours is wrong.

我个人会建议你去查一下，因为有很多……

I would just personally go and check because there are...

对很多人来说，这是标准的，直到你年收入超过10万英镑，然后到12.5万英镑，它会因为这个原因而改变。

For a lot of people, that is the standard until you start earning over a £100,000 and then a 125,000, it will change for that reason.

那你跟谁查呢？

And who do you check with?

如果是……

So if it's...

比如说，你现在看工资单，发现不是1257L，你想去HMRC或者政府网站上查一下，HMRC也有个应用，你可以在上面查，它会显示如果你的工资单上的税务代码和那个匹配，它会在你的税务代码旁边显示Y，就像有个小说明解释为什么你的不是标准的。

For instance, you look at your pay slip now and it's not 1257L, you wanna check on the HMRC or the gov website, does HMRC have an app as well, which you can check on and what it will say on there is if your tax code on your pay SIP and that one matches, it will say next to your tax code Y, like there'll be a little description as to why yours isn't the standard.

如果它们不匹配，你需要告诉税务局，让他们通知你的雇主更改你的税码。

If they don't match, you need to tell HMRC to tell your employer to change yours.

我知道这真的很烦人，而且这也是为什么我说工资单是你自己的责任，因为很多人以为他们的工资团队或者公司会替他们搞定这一切，但实际上并不保证，你必须自己参与进来。

I know it's really annoying and it's also, that's why I say your pay slip, your responsibility because a lot of people think that their payroll team, their company will just sort all of this for them, it's not actually guaranteed, you have to be the one to get involved.

所以第一点就是检查你的税码。

So that would be number one, be check your tax code.

第二点，检查你往养老金里存了多少钱。

Secondly, would check how much you're putting into your pension.

在英国，我们有所谓的自动注册制度，当你超过22岁，年收入超过1万英镑时，公司会帮你交3%，你自己交5%作为标准，你可以选择退出，那样公司就不用交任何钱，但你要检查你目前交了多少，因为有些雇主会匹配更高的比例，如果你没有匹配他们愿意出的金额，你可能白白错过了钱。

When it comes to The UK, we have something called auto enrollment where when you're over the age of 22, only more than 10 ks a year, your company will put in 3%, you put in 5% as a standard, you can opt out, which means your company doesn't have to put in anything, but check what you are currently contributing because some employers will match higher and if you're not matching what they're willing to put in, you could be just leaving money on the table.

然后我的第三点

And then my third thing

是，我之后想多聊聊养老金。

is And I wanna talk more about pensions later.

哦，别担心，我们有很多关于养老金的话题要聊。

Oh, don't you worry, we've got plenty to talk about pensions.

第三点我想说的是，工资单上其他任何扣款，比如各种形式的工资牺牲，还有学生贷款。很多人到了三四十岁都没意识到自己快要把学生贷款还完了，而学生贷款公司很少主动来通知你，告诉你已经还完了或者快还完了。

And the third thing I would say is any other deductions on your pay slip, so for instance, salary sacrifice in any capacity, but also student loan, a lot of people don't realize in their like 30s and 40s that they're edging towards paying that student loan off, and the student loans company rarely come to you to make you aware that you're finished at, you're almost finished.

真的吗？

Really?

什么，他们还会继续扣钱？

What, they'll keep charging you?

有时候你的雇主会继续扣款，然后学生贷款公司要过一阵子才会说，哦，你多付了，要不要把钱退给你？

Sometimes your employer will keep deducting and then it will take a while for the student loan company to be like, oh, you've overpaid, would you like this money back?

你肯定会说，要啊，当然要，谢谢。

You're like, yeah, I would actually, thank you.

我经常跟人说，你以为自己快还完了，我离还完还远着呢，我属于第二类计划，就是涨到九千英镑的那种。但如果你觉得自己快还完了，一定要再仔细查一下，因为你可以让雇主停止从工资里扣学生贷款，然后自己直接还，这样你就知道每个月还了多少，还完了就彻底结束了。

I always say to people, you think you're near the end, I am nowhere near the end, I'm on like the plan two when it hiked up to nine k but if you think you're near the end of paying that off, do a double check because you could stop your employer from paying the student loan out of your pay slip and just do pay it yourself and then you know how much is going out and then when it's done, it's done.

还有人发现自己被分到了错误的还款计划，导致还款金额不对。

And also some people find that they're on the wrong plans and that means you're paying the wrong amounts.

所以我的三大建议就是：检查税务代码、养老金，以及其他扣款，比如学生贷款。这就是我们开始关注银行余额的起点。然后就像我之前说的，看看支出，首先检查有没有你不认识的支出，当然要确认一下是不是你自己花的。

So those would be my top three would be tax co pensions and any other deductions like student loans to check-in on, that would be where we're starting on our bank balance and then like I said before, expenses, with I would first be looking for any expenses you don't recognize, obviously doing a double check that it was you.

我以前也遇到过这种情况，我明明看到了一笔交易，心想我肯定被骗了，账户被黑了，结果发现其实不是，这真的很让人沮丧。

I've had it before, I've done it where I've seen something, I'm like, I've been scammed, my account's been hacked and unfortunately I wasn't, which is very upsetting.

然后检查一下有没有自动扣款，比如各种订阅，看看那些是不是真的需要，是不是真的在用，大概就是这些，我会从这些开始查。

And then check that if you've got any automations going out, so any subscriptions, what's going on there, do you really need them, do you really use them, things like that, that'd probably be where I would start.

这完全不应该带有任何评判。

This should be completely without judgment.

你知道我最近特别喜欢的一句话吗？

Do know the phrase I've really enjoyed recently?

有个女士说，我很难伺候，但这没关系，因为是我自己在照顾自己。我特别喜欢这句话，因为我觉得这和你的财务也是一样的道理，要对自己的财务保持好奇，因为是你自己在打理它。

This woman was like, I'm high maintenance but it's fine because I'm the one maintaining me and I'm obsessed with it because I think it goes along with your finances as well, like be inquisitive about your finances because you're the ones maintaining, you're the one maintaining it.

其实我觉得更多人需要接受这个观点，记住这不是评判的问题，这是你的财务，是你个人的事情。

And actually, I think more people need to kind of take that on and remember that it's not about judgment, it's your finances, it's personal to you.

如果你发现有什么问题，就去找人帮忙，寻求支持，但逃避对谁都没好处，而且你也没有在照顾自己。

And if you, if there's something wrong, go and seek someone out, go and seek support but avoiding it is not gonna help anyone and actually you're gonna and you're not maintaining you.

我个人觉得，这就像刷牙和护肤一样重要，当然我这么说是因为我是会计师。

I think personally, I would say it goes along the same lines of like brushing your teeth and doing your skincare but obviously I would say that because I'm an accountant.

但我确实觉得，如果我们能让大家觉得这就像日常保养一样自然，那就太好了。

But I do think if we could get to a place where people felt comfortable enough that it was just part of their maintenance routine, it would be wonderful.

你建议每周检查一次花费吗？

You recommend a one week spending check-in?

是的，嗯，我有时候会限制在二十四小时内，这取决于我是否真的想要那个东西，但如果你要花超过一定金额的钱，暂停一下，给自己至少二十四小时，甚至一周的时间，再回去看你的财务状况，再决定是否购买，这真的是一个很好的主意。

Yes, well, I've limited it sometimes to twenty four hours, it depends if I really want the item, but yes, if you're spending over a certain amount of money, taking a pause and giving yourself at least twenty four hours, if not a week, before you go back to your finances, before you go back and purchase the item is a really weak, like good idea.

我觉得在我的书里，我确实明确说了要等一周，但有时候我们不得不缩短时间，因为那个东西确实需要买，但我总是说，如果你想买超过一定金额的东西，因为那会涉及到你查看银行账单时，你知道有即将到来的消费，找个人聊聊，比如有个负责监督你消费的伙伴，然后说，好，我要等二十四小时再买，然后我再决定买不买，或者我要等一周再买，因为有时候，不是总是，但有时候你会发现，当那二十四小时过去后，实际上那种需求或欲望已经不存在了，它就这样过去了，你会想，其实我可以再等等，尤其是我觉得

I think in my book, I did specifically say a week but sometimes we have to limit because the item really needs to purchase but I would always say if you wanna buy something over a certain amount of money, because that's comes alongside when you're looking at your bank statements, you know you've got purchases coming up, speaking to someone about it, like having a kind of an accountability spending buddy and then going, right, I'm gonna wait twenty four hours before I buy it and then I'm gonna buy it or I'm gonna wait a week before I buy it because sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes you'll find that when that twenty four hours has passed, actually the need or the want isn't there anymore and it kind of passes and you think, actually I'll wait and especially I feel

很多时候。

a lot of the time.

尤其是因为，我告诉那些女孩们，我真的不太爱购物，我不……

Especially because of like, I was telling the girls, like, I'm not really a big shopper, like, I don't...

我从来都不是……

I've never really been...

我完全不是那种乱花钱的人。

I'm not a frivolous spender at all.

我喜欢把钱花在度假和家里，但网上购物、买衣服这些，我真的不太感兴趣，就是不太……

I like spending money on like holidays and like my home, but like shopping on the internet, clothes, that kind of thing, it's just I'm not really not into it, it just doesn't...

那不会让我兴奋。

It's not my dopamine hit.

但上个月发生了一些事，那些该死的Instagram广告

But something has happened in the last month and those fucking Instagram ads

在针对你。

are Targeting you.

它们把我彻底拿下了。

They have got me like hook, line and sinker.

我昨天从亚马逊买了一个20英镑的手持蒸汽挂烫机，其实真的很好用。

I got 20 pound hand steamer from Amazon yesterday which is actually incredible.

然后我跟所有人都说了。

Then I tell everyone about it.

我买了一个60英镑的，广告特别棒的吹风梳。

I bought this like 60 pound, like total amazing ad for like this like blow dry brush.

我买了一个第十代iPad，还有那种iPhone三脚架，其实我不需要，但就是觉得它弯起来的样子很酷。

I bought a tenth iPad, like iPhone tripod that I don't need but it just looked like it bent in a cool way.

我现在就是个容易上当的人，而且这就是多巴胺在作祟。

I am just a sucker at the moment and it's dopamine.

就是

It

那种快感，而且总是在我睡觉前，就像睡前得来一下，这真的失控了。

is that like hit and it's always just before I go to bed, it's like I need a quick hit before I sleep, this getting is out of control.

我知道，我的罪恶快感是囤卫生纸。

I know, my guilty pleasure is bulk loo rolls.

我知道，所以每次我下单的时候，

I know, so every time I do a dap,

我总是会加上那个

I always add that

说实话，这就像一种强迫症，我也不知道为什么，但就是觉得这太划算了，而且谁喜欢从商店拎着卫生纸走回家呢？

to Honestly, my it's like tick, I don't know what it is but I'm like, this is such a great deal and also who likes walking back from the shop with loo rolls?

所以不用，我直接让他们送货到家。但那些快递员简直太搞笑了，每次我在取件口拿卷纸的时候，他们最后都会顺手带走几卷。因为我住的地方真的特别小，我买的东西堆在那儿，看着比这张沙发还大。我知道，然后我就盯着那堆东西想：哎呀，刚才那个决定做得真蠢。所以每次有人过来，我都会说……

So No I get them delivered to me, but they are hysterical and my friends end up seeing me around the loo roll delivery slot and leave with loo rolls because I actually live in a really small flat and I buy them and they're like, they're bigger, honestly it gets delivered probably about the size of this sofa, I know and then I'm looking at it like, oh, made a really terrible decision here and so everyone that turns up, I'm like,

你要不要来点耳纸？

you want some ear rolls?

然后他们就笑说，走吧

And they're like, go

接着走人，还挺认真的。

on then and then they're serious.

对，我的毛病就是喜欢囤货。我觉得这可能跟小时候家里的观念有关，我爸妈那样，我也不太确定，反正我心里就想，这价格太划算了，当然得花24镑啊。

Yeah, that's my guilty pleasure is like bulk buying stuff and I think it's like a, maybe it's a mindset from my childhood, from my parents, I don't know but I just go, well, it's such a great deal, of course I'd spend £24

买那个啊，哈哈，太逗了。

on Oh, a that, so funny.

对，我在买衣服上也一样。以前我只要想买就会直接去，尤其是被卷进社交媒体这个圈子后，总觉得必须不断升级自己的穿搭。作为女生，我会去唐宁街或者英格兰银行那种特别正式的地方，结果发现那些男士每次都穿同一套西装，已经穿了十次了，但我感觉自己不能这样，每次都得换不同的裙子或搭配。后来我有个特别好的朋友叫凯特，她现在是个造型师，帮了我大忙。我要是看中什么，就发照片给她，她对我特别严格，经常直接说：绝对不行，别碰那个。

Yeah, I have the same as well with clothes, like I used to be someone that would just go out and buy whenever I felt the need and especially being thrust into this social media world, I felt the constant need to keep leveling up my clothes and as a woman, I would go into these incredible spaces like Downing Street and Bank of England and the boys would be wearing the exact same suit they've worn for the last 10 appearances but I didn't feel like I could do that, I felt like I had to wear a different dress or a different outfit each time and actually, I've got an incredible friend called Kate, who's now a stylist and she really helps me because if I go to buy something, I'll send a picture to her and she's very brutal with me and she'll be like, absolutely not, don't touch that.

我就会想，哎，我还觉得挺好看的呢。

I'm like, oh, I thought it looked great.

她说，对。

She's like, yeah.

这能帮我停止买东西，因为如果没得到她的认可，我就不买，有时候这样也挺好的。

It will help stop me from buying things because if I haven't got the approval, I'm not buying it, which can be good sometimes.

我觉得有些人需要类似的理财顾问。

I think some people need their own finance version of that.

对，但我喜欢这种暂停一下的做法，因为我觉得它能抑制那种冲动消费，那种消费其实只是为了满足当下的某种冲动，而且很多时候我甚至都忘了自己到底买了什么鬼东西。

Yeah, but I like the pausing because I think it takes that sort of impulsive buy, which really is just to, like, satisfy some kind of urge in the moment and it so often is, you know, I mean, the fact is I'm starting to forget what I fucking ordered.

我们稍微聊聊预算吧。

Let's talk a little bit about budgeting.

好的。

Yes.

我觉得当我们听到“预算”这个词，比如有人跟你说“你该开始做预算了”，我们几乎会立刻觉得这是一种冒犯，好像对方在说“你显然不擅长理财”或者“你显然钱不够，需要限制自己”。

I think when we hear the words, let's say that someone said to us, you know, maybe you should start budgeting, I think immediately we can almost take that as like an insult, like someone saying like, you're clearly not good with money or you clearly don't have enough money, you need to start restricting yourself.

我觉得这会让人想反抗，或者就是让人觉得自己不够好。

And I think that can feel like you almost wanna rebel against it or it can just make you feel like not very good.

我们怎么把预算这个概念重新定义一下，让它变成一种关乎自我价值、自我尊重的保护，而不是一种限制呢？

How can we reframe budgeting to something that is really about self worth, self respect protection rather than this restriction?

对，确实听起来和感觉上都是那样。那些常见的预算方法，比如50、30、20法则，就是说你收入的50%用于必需品，30%用于想要的东西，20%存起来给未来的自己。

Yeah, it does, it sounds and does feel like that, all those like random or standard budgeting hacks, like the 50, 30, 20 method, which is basically about like 50% of your income goes to your needs, 30% goes to your wants and then 20% goes to your future you pot.

我觉得这真的很难，特别是如果你住在伦敦市中心，房租要低于工资的50%都很难，再加上账单什么的，感觉就是又受限又压力大。

I actually think it's so difficult, especially if you live in Central London to find like your rent is under 50% of your salary and your bills on top of that and things like that, it just feels restrictive and stressful.

所以我会说，我甚至不会叫它预算，我会说从自动化开始，但是是好的那种自动化。

So I would say, I wouldn't even call it budgeting, I'd call it start with automation, but the good type of automation.

不是那种自动扣款的订阅，而是月初的时候，把你的钱自动转到该去的地方。

So not the subscriptions that are coming out, but start at the beginning of the month, moving all your money around to where it should be.

就是建立一些好的理财习惯。

So put good, really good finance habits in place.

比如你知道发薪日是每月26号，那你就提前安排好，26号一到，100英镑直接进你的投资组合，100英镑进储蓄罐，100英镑进那个专门为九月假期准备的储蓄账户。

So when you know your payday is happening, so it's happening on the twenty sixth of the month, let's say, you've already organized on the twenty sixth of the month, a £100 goes straight into your investment portfolio, a £100 goes into your savings pot, a £100 goes into that savings account that's specifically for your holiday in September.

这些事情都能快速自动完成，刚开始设置的时候有点麻烦，但之后每个月都会自动发生，这几乎就是，人们不觉得这是预算，但这确实是预算，只是它自动帮你做了。

All of those things just happen quickly and you can set them up, it's a little bit of a faff to begin with, but then they just happen each month and that almost is, like people don't think that that is budgeting, but that is budgeting, but it's just happening for you.

那你是怎么创建这些小账户的？

So how do you create little pots?

这取决于你的银行或者你用的银行应用，但其实挺简单的。现在有很多新型银行，它们允许你设置子账户和自动转账。而且任何银行账户都可以设置定期转账，说实话，现在所有银行都支持这个功能，因为他们知道必须跟上时代，连那些老牌银行也不得不适应新时代。

It depends on your bank company or like the bank you're using, but it is quite simple, like there's lots of neo banks out there, there's like new banks that will let you set up pots and let you set up automations and you can set up standing orders in any bank account, like to be honest, all of them do it now because they know they have to, even the old archaic banks have had to get on board with a new era.

所以，其实不难，你只要登录你的账户，然后点击定期转账就行了。

So yes, it's not too difficult if you go on your account and then click standing orders.

天哪，这听起来真有意思。

God, this sounds so fun.

对，没错，你也这么觉得吧。

Well, exactly, And you sort of of agree.

这就像那个，叫什么来着，玛丽·近藤，她整理衣橱那样，你也可以整理你的财务，整理你的银行账户，把一部分钱转到溢价债券，大胆一点，再转一部分到投资组合，把钱分配好，但关键是，花点时间在月初设置好自动转账，之后就不用再管了。因为到了月底27号，你一看银行账户，就能清楚这个月有多少钱可以花，我已经先把钱分配到各个账户里了，剩下的就是我能用的。我觉得这是一个很好的起点。

This is a thing, we're getting, what's her name, Marie Kundo, where she like organizes organizes her her closets, do it with your finances, organize your bank accounts, move a bit of money to premium bonds, go wild, move a bit of money to your investment portfolio, move your money around but make it, spend time at the beginning automating it and then you don't have to do it again because then when you get to the twenty seventh of the month, you can look at your bank account and be like, right, that's what I have to spend this month and I've paid myself first in all of my different pots and now what's left is what I've got left and I think that's a really good place to start.

之后我们可以再深入细节，用不同的方法来避免超支，但我个人建议先从自动化开始，把钱分配到不同账户，然后花剩下的，而不是月底再想着存剩下的。

We can then go into more minute detail and you can start using different methods to make sure you don't overspend in different places, but I personally would start with automation of all of your money go into a different pot and then spend what's left rather than trying to save what's left at the end of the month.

我喜欢这个想法。

I love that.

我觉得这听起来很让人兴奋，因为我觉得你也可以这样做，比如我喜欢为度假或者你知道的，比如买房或者为家里添置什么大件东西而存钱，显然我这么想是因为我现在正在装修，为某个你真正想要的大目标存钱。

I feel like that sounds like exciting because also I think when you, you could always also do that, like I love the idea of doing it for something like a holiday or something that you know that you maybe like a home purchase or like something for the home, obviously, I'm thinking that because I'm renovating at the moment, you know, something big that you really want.

我还觉得这里面有很多乐趣，比如知道你要把这笔钱放进你真正想要、想体验、渴望并且觉得自己值得拥有的东西里，然后自己朝着这个目标努力，感觉是可控的。

I also think there's quite a lot of joy in that, like knowing that you're going to put this money inside of this thing that you really want, that you want to experience, that you desire, that you know that you deserve, and then working towards it yourself in that way that feels like manageable.

因为我觉得这样的话，当你真正付款的时候，你会觉得自己是从一个积极的心态出发，而不是像‘哦，糟糕，时候到了，我得一次性付清，把自己置于一个很尴尬的境地’，那样几乎会给度假或做那件你之前很兴奋的事情泼冷水。

Because I think in that sense, actually, when you then make the payment for it, it's gonna feel like you're doing it from a like a positive place rather than like, oh shit, the time has come and now I've gotta put myself in a really tricky position because I've gotta pay for all of it at once and then it can almost put a downer on booking the holiday or a downer on doing that thing that you were so excited about before.

对，而且实际上，你可以建一个专门叫‘玩乐基金’的账户，然后当你出门在外，想着‘我真的很想要这个东西’时，也许你等了二十四小时，回来还是觉得‘我真的很想要’，你就可以说‘你知道吗，我已经把钱存好了，我有权用自己的钱买东西’。我觉得人们跟我谈钱的时候，常常很紧张，他们会说‘哦，我不好意思告诉你’，我会说‘不，我经常乱花钱，因为我喜欢花自己的钱，这就是重点’。我觉得这也是一种心态，当人们开始说‘天哪，我不能花钱，我钱不够’的时候，这确实会导致你更不会理财。

Yeah and actually it's, you can make a pot that's literally just called fun money and then when you're out and you're thinking, you know, I really want this thing, maybe you've waited twenty four hours, you know, and you come back and you're like, I really want it and you can go, do know what, I put the money aside and I am allowed to buy things with my money, I think often when people speak to me about finances, they're very nervous and they're like, oh, I'm embarrassed to tell you and I'm like, no, I make frivolous purchases all the time because I love spending my money, that's the point and I think it's a mindset part as well that I think people, when they start to say things like, god, I can't spend any money, I don't have enough, it does create, it leads to you being worse with money.

不过说点更严肃的，我觉得储蓄罐很重要，但更重要的是你的应急基金和自由基金。

On more serious note, I would say though, the savings pot's really important but what's really important is your emergency fund pot and your freedom pot as well.

有存下来的钱，能让你在需要的时候说‘不’或说‘是’，我……

You know, having savings set aside that give you the ability to say no or to say yes when you need to, I.

比如，对不适合你的工作说‘不’，对适合你的机会说‘是’，有这笔钱在，尤其是作为女性，会给你带来更多的自由。

E, say no to a job that doesn't suit you, say yes to an opportunity that works for you and having that money there, especially as a woman, gives you so much more freedom.

现实一点说，应急基金大概存多少就够了，比如说，你知道吗……

Realistically, how much is enough for, let's say, like an emergency pot or Do you know

技术上来说，应急基金的标准是三个月到六个月的基本开销，而且应该放在一个容易取用的账户里。

what, technically, the rule for an emergency fund pot, the rule, is three to six months of essential spend, it should be in an account that's easy to access.

如果出了什么事，你能很快拿到那笔钱，而不是依赖债务。

If something happens, you can get that money quickly rather than like leaning on debt.

不过，对于自由基金或者说“去你的”基金，你已经发誓了，所以我们很好，没问题。

However, for a freedom or an FU pot, you've sworn, so we're great, we're fine.

我喜欢叫它“去你的”基金，但我会说从小开始，慢慢积累到你感觉舒服的程度。

I like to call it the fuck you pot but I would say start small and work your way up to a point where you feel comfortable with it.

比如，我的“去你的”基金以前真的只够我打车回家。

So like for instance, my fuck you pot used to genuinely just have enough money to get me home.

如果我遇到糟糕的约会，或者在伦敦某个糟糕的地方，我只想回家，我就能直接叫个优步，不用担心，也不会责怪自己说应该坐火车或地铁。作为女性，事情从来没那么简单，你知道吗？

If I was on a terrible date or I was in a terrible place in London, I wanted to just get home, I could just get an Uber and not worry about it and not grill myself that like, should have got the train or the tube, you know, as a woman, it's never that simple, you know?

其实，有时候那个基金就只是为了让我能说“我要叫优步”，或者它可以大到像这样：我长期处在一段关系里，真的很不开心，但我觉得被困住了，我该怎么办？

Actually, think sometimes that pot can just be there just to be like, I'm getting an Uber or it can be as big as I've been in a relationship for a very long time that I am really unhappy in but I feel stuck, what do I do?

然后你会说，其实我有一笔储蓄基金，专门为此准备，它就是为了帮我说“不，我不需要再接受这个男人的这些了，我可以离开，因为我知道发生了什么，我有钱，我准备好了”。实际上，这就是我想教给下一代的东西：钱是为了给你终极自由，它不是衡量你作为人的标准，比如比别人有钱并不意味着你更好，但它应该给你终极自由，让你能按照自己的意愿生活和行动，而不是觉得自己被困住了。

And you go, well actually, I've got a savings pot there that's specifically for this, it's specifically there to help me go, no, I don't need to accept this anymore from this man, I can go and leave because I know what's going on, I have my money, I'm ready and actually that's what I would love to be teaching that next generation is that money is there to give you ultimate freedom, it's not there to be a measure of who you are as a person, like having more money than someone else doesn't make you better, but what it should do is give you ultimate freedom to be able to do and act how you want in your life and not feel like you're stuck.

有很多女性来找我，她们觉得自己离不开一段关系，因为经济上被困住了，这让我很心碎。因为我觉得，作为一个最近刚结束一段关系的人，我的财务状况井井有条，这让整个过程顺利得多。

There's so many women that come to me that feel like they can't leave relationships because financially they're trapped and that breaks my heart because I think as someone that came out of a relationship recently, having my finance short ducks in a row made the process so much more seamless.

我觉得这真的非常重要。那对于那些觉得“听起来很好，但我连存钱都存不起，赚得不够多”的人，你有什么想说的吗？哪怕存一点点也算存，对吧？

I think that is honestly so, so important and do you have a kind of message for someone who thinks, okay, that sounds really great in theory, but I don't even feel like I'm earning enough, like to even put away anything, like how small is enough, like anything is enough, right?

任何一点都行，从小开始。因为你会惊讶地发现，即使你只是存点钱，早上醒来你会想，算了，今天不买咖啡了。我其实不太喜欢这个比喻，但就像，我不买咖啡了，就把五英镑放进储蓄罐里。

Anything, it start like because you'll be amazed, even if you put the money, you wake up and you go, do know what, I won't get a coffee today, I hate this analogy to be honest sometimes but like I won't get the coffee and I'll just put five pounds into that savings pot.

你的心态会发生变化，真的会变，我保证。

It's the mindset that shifts in your brain, like something does shift, I promise you it does.

你存了五英镑，然后下周你会想，嘿，这里有十英镑了，让我把它存起来。

And you put five pounds away and then next week you go, do you know what, actually there's 10 pounds there, let me put that away.

然后你做出一些小决定，不知不觉中，那个储蓄罐就积累成了一笔让你感到自豪的数目。而为自己感到自豪，才是这一切中最重要的事情。这也是我写那些书、教那些东西的原因，因为我只是想让人们为自己感到自豪，觉得金钱不会束缚他们。因为多年来，我们一直被教导说金钱是不该谈论的话题，是禁忌，这完全是胡说八道。

Then you just make small decisions and before you know it, that savings pot has accumulated into something that you just feel proud of and feeling proud about or feeling proud of yourself is what's really important in all of this, like it's why I wrote the books I've written and teach what I teach is because I just want people to feel proud of themselves and feel like that money doesn't hold them back because for years, we've just been taught that money is something that we shouldn't be talking about and it's taboo and it's bullshit.

这确实是禁忌。

It is so taboo.

太禁忌了。

So taboo.

我妈以前总跟我说，千万别聊钱的事，真的别聊，你懂我的意思吧？

I mean, my mom was always saying to me like, never talk about money, like never, do you know what I mean?

这观念根深蒂固。到现在，如果我跟我妈说……我以前还能跟我爸聊这个，因为他挺喜欢金融和商业那一套的。但要是我现在跟我妈说‘哎呀妈，发生了这种事’，她准会说：

It was like really, really even now, if I tell my mom, like I used to be able to talk to my dad about it because he like was, you know, loved finances and business and everything but if I tell my mom now, I'm like, oh my god, mom, like, you know, this happened, she'll be like,

别提这个。

don't talk about it.

我就会跟她说：妈，你是我亲妈啊，我当然能跟你讲。但我真心觉得，在任何场合讨论金钱都特别容易让人不适。所以我甚至在自己聊显化法则的时候，也从不把显化和钱扯在一起，因为我知道这个话题很容易触动很多人的敏感神经。我觉得这是个很棘手的议题，我非常在意不要冒犯或惹恼任何人。

You're like, mom, you're my mother, I can tell you, you know, it's really like, it's really destructive to discuss money in any way and I think that even, you know, when it comes to me talking about manifestation, you know, I never talk about manifestation and money because I know how triggering it can be for so many people because I think it is a really challenging topic and I'm so conscious not to offend or upset anyone.

不过我想说的是什么呢？

Do you know what I would say though?

我是真的觉得，在金钱这方面，显化和可视化这些方法背后是有很大作用的，因为我们要做的其实就是建立自信。

Like, I do think there's so much behind manifesting and visualization and all of that when it comes to money because what we're trying to do is build up our confidence.

我觉得很多人之所以不去尝试，主要原因就是缺乏自信。所以如果我们能解决这个问题，就能解决钱的问题。

I think a lot of people, the main reason they don't engage is just the lack of confidence and so if we can fix the confidence element, we can fix the money element.

我可以教你那些关于理财的小技巧，虽然挺枯燥的，但我可以教；我可以告诉你储蓄账户该怎么用，也可以教你投资是怎么回事。但是，如果你对自己完全没信心，想从那个状态出发去学这些东西，其实挺难的。我觉得很重要的一点是，你得先建立起这种心态，哪怕刚开始得假装一下。你可以塑造一个‘另一个自己’，这个‘你’说话得体、对金钱有清晰的认知，也能自信地谈论自己和金钱。这也是我喜欢Manifest以及你做的事情的原因：它主要是帮你建立整体的自信心，然后如果你想的话，再把那些枯燥的具体操作知识补上就行。

I can give you the tools to teach you about pay sips, it's very boring, but I can do that, I can teach you how savings accounts should work, I can teach you how investing works, but if I'm trying to work from a place where you've got no confidence in yourself whatsoever, it's pretty difficult to do that and I think it's really important that you sort of create, even if you have to fake it at the beginning, like create this sort of alter ego of someone that just speaks well, you don't have to speak amazingly about money but speaks well about money and speaks well about yourself and that's what I love about Manifest and about what you do in general is it's about just building out your confidence in general and then you can slot in the other boring bits on the side if you want.

完全同意，我喜欢这个说法。

Totally, I love that.

我想聊聊关于代际财富转移的话题。

I wanna talk a little bit about the kind of generational money shift.

我觉得现在赚钱确实比我们父母那一代难多了，而且像一百万英镑现在能买到的东西，和当年对父母那代人的意义完全不同，比如能买得起房子这个想法。

I think that money definitely, it feels a lot harder to make money now than it did for our parents' generation and I think that basic things like what a million pounds would get you today is so different to what it meant for our parents, the idea of getting, being able to afford a home.

我们的财务环境和他们相比有多大的不同？

How different is the financial landscape for us compared to them?

差别太大了，他们那时候买房子就像买糖豆一样容易。

Huge, they could buy houses for like Haribo.

像我们父母那一代，买房子的价格大概是年薪的五倍，最多四倍，现在呢，是十二倍、十五倍、二十倍。

Like my parents' generation, you were looking at buying a house that was maybe five times your salary max, maybe four times your salary, now we're looking at 12, 15, 20 times.

哇。

Wow.

可不是嘛。

It's not.

大多数人得跟别人一起买房，所以他们很早就得做决定，比如想，好吧，我跟这个人在一起吗？

Most people have to buy with someone else so they have to make decisions very early on in their lives that they're like, right, okay, am I with this person?

因为那样的话，我就得跟他一起买。

Because then I'm gonna buy with them.

我觉得我们父母那一代在钱方面有一些好习惯，确实有，但我听你跟罗宾·夏尔马的播客时，他说要轻轻握住你的习惯，我觉得这就是下一代需要提醒自己的，父母那代的习惯不是我们今天的习惯。

I think there's some good habits that our parents' generation had around money, I do, but was listening to Robin Sharma's podcast with you and he was saying that hold onto your habits with a loose grip and I think that that's what the next generation need to remind themselves, that the habits of our parents aren't the habits of us today.

我们父母那代走进银行，说，这是我收入的证明，请给我贷款，银行就说，好的，给你贷款，现在可不行了。

You know, our parents could get mortgages by walking into a bank and being like, here's a piece of paper with what I earn, please give me a mortgage and they went, okay, great, here's your mortgage, that doesn't happen now.

我们现在得去找贷款顾问或银行，说，这是我所有的东西。

We now have to go to a mortgage advisor or a bank and be like, this is everything I have.

还有，顺便说一句，我因为学生贷款花了几千英镑，因为每个人都告诉我必须上大学。

Also, by the way, I've spent a serious amount of thousands of pounds on student loan because everyone told me I had to go to university.

我还有一些信用卡债务，因为生活方式升级或者互联网，它鼓励我买了一大堆卫生纸。

I have various credit card debts because of lifestyle creep or, you know, the internet, what encouraged me to buy loads of loo roll.

有好多不同的东西，你得……

You know, there's loads of different things and you have to...

他们能看到你的一切，然后你常常会说，好吧，我可以攒个首付，可能就房子的5%或10%，然后你又说，好吧，我需要贷款，那会是什么样呢？

They can see everything about you and you often then go, right, I can build up a deposit just maybe five, 10% of a house and then you're going, right, I need a mortgage, what does that look like?

我能在哪儿买？

Where can I buy?

离我工作的地方近吗？

Is it close to where I work?

而我们父母那一辈真的没有这些顾虑，他们确实没有。虽然我父母会说，哦，我们那时候也挺难的，利率高多了，我会说，是的，但你们利率高是因为借的钱少，所以这根本不是一回事。

And our parents just didn't really have that, they really didn't and as much as my parents would be like, oh, it was difficult in our day, we had higher interest rates and I'm like, yes, but you had higher interest rates based on lowest, like you were borrowing less money, so it isn't the same thing.

我们现在这个时代，加薪没那么容易了，房价也不像父母那辈涨得那么快，财富状况已经变了。

We have an age where you're saying it isn't as easy to have pay rises anymore and house prices don't rise as quickly as they did in our parents' generation, wealth has changed.

而且，什么才算富有呢？

What does wealthy look like as well?

我身边的很多人不看重拥有房子，但他们看重旅行，他们想当数字游民，想环游世界，实际上他们的钱就是用来干这个的，他们非常富有，因为他们见识了世界那么多地方，过上了那样的生活。而我父母那辈可能会觉得我们这样做很疯狂，觉得我们在乱花钱，但就像我说的，或者像罗宾说的，要灵活看待你的习惯，因为我们父母那辈的习惯不应该是我们紧抓不放的，因为他们很多人害怕投资，因为那时候风险更大，至少他们觉得风险大。

Many people that are in my life don't value owning a home but they value travel, they wanna be a digital nomad, they wanna be able to see the world and actually that's what their money provides them and they are incredibly wealthy because they have seen so much of the world and get to live that life, whereas like my parents' generation probably think that what we do is mad and that we're being frivolous with our money but like I said, or like Robin said, hold your habits with a loose grip because our parents' generation or our parents' habits shouldn't be the ones that we hold onto because a lot of them were fearful of investing because it was more risky back then, well, it felt risky about them.

对，我觉得你说得太对了，拥有自己的房子确实是一个很明确的里程碑，就像，那是一个……

Yeah, I mean, I think you're so right that, like, home ownership was definitely such a clear milestone, like, that is the kind of, like, point...

那就像一个目的地。

That's like a destination.

你想达到那个点，然后你就……

You wanna get to that point and then you are...

你就有了一定的财务保障，或者在某种程度上取得了财务上的成功。

You have some financial security or you have reached financial success in some way.

很明显这种情况正在改变，但我认为对一些人来说，对很多人来说，他们仍然紧紧抓住那个观念不放。

And it's very clear that that is changing, but I think for for some people, but for a lot of people, they still really hold on to that.

对于那些仍然认为，或者正在为买不起房、不知道怎么能买得起房而焦虑的人，你会对他们说什么？

What would you say to those people who still think, like, are panicking about the fact that they can't afford to buy a home or they don't know how that will ever happen for them?

是的，这完全没问题，生活本来就不是要我们过和父母一样的生活。如果你没有房子，但你能说自己真心快乐，那就没问题，你知道吗？

Yeah, it's absolutely fine, you know, like life isn't meant to be we aren't meant to live the same lives as our parents and if you don't own a home but you can say that you're genuinely happy, then that's fine, you know?

如果你想拥有自己的房子，作为会计，我可以给你一些建议，比如利用终身ISA。终身ISA是政府的一个计划，你每年可以存入四千英镑，政府每年会额外补贴一千英镑，你可以一直往里存，直到你买第一套房子。

Owning a home, if you want to own a home, the accountant in me can give you tips to be like, use things like a lifetime ISA, so a lifetime ISA is this government thing where you can put in four ks, the government uplift this by a thousand each year, you can keep contributing to that until you buy your first home.

你可以咨询抵押贷款顾问，确保你清楚需要多少首付，以及需要多少薪水才能获得合适的抵押贷款。

You could speak to a mortgage advisor, make sure that you're on track to know what you need as a deposit, what you need for salary wise to get a decent mortgage.

但另一方面，我觉得有时候租房更自由，因为你想走就能走，当然，得在租期内合理范围内，但你可以离开，锅炉坏了，也不是你的责任。而如果你买房，所有事情都是你的责任。我以前买过房，是和别人一起买的，现在我不买房了，我租房，我确实觉得更自由，我也接受这一点。但如果你坚决要买房，那太好了，很棒，那是你努力的目标，如果你做好规划，希望你能实现。

But the kind of other part of me would say that sometimes renting is much more freeing because you can leave when you want effective, well, within reason within your rental period but you can leave, the boiler breaks, it's not your responsibility, whereas when you own, it's all your job and I used to own, I owned with someone and I now don't own and I rent and I actually find it more freeing and I'm okay with that but if you are adamantly set on buying a home, fantastic, great, that's a metric that you're working towards and you can like, if you put things in place, hopefully you'll reach it.

太棒了。

Amazing.

好的，在我们继续之前，我想快速解释一下一些金融术语，因为我觉得人们对理解金钱有抵触的一部分原因是，有很多术语，大多数人在对话中都不好意思说，我很抱歉。

Okay, I wanted to do a kind of quick fire on money terms explained before we go any further because I think part of this kind of resistance to understanding money is the fact that there's these terms used and most people feel too embarrassed in a conversation to say, I'm so sorry.

我真的不知道那是什么意思。

I actually don't know what that means.

好的。

Okay.

那么……

So...

好的。

Okay.

第一个，利率。

Number one, interest rates.