紫禁城十年等待终迎落幕

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这是圆桌会议。

This is Roundtable.

您正在收听圆桌会议。

You're listening to Roundtable.

我是凌烨禾，与史蒂夫和费费一同参与。

I'm Yeoho Ling, joined by Steve and Fei Fei.

即将登场。

Coming up soon.

在十年的‘请勿打扰’告示之后，紫禁城最强大的房间重新开业了。

After ten years of do not disturb signs, the most powerful room in the Forbidden City is back in business.

想看看清朝皇后真正生活、工作，甚至可能闲聊的地方吗？

Want to see where the Qing dynasty empress actually lived, worked, and maybe gossiped?

养心殿终于对外开放了。

The hall of mental cultivation is finally open.

承认吧。

And admit it.

你做过。

You've done it.

你曾经当过数字侦探，调查过我们合作伙伴的X档案。

You've been digital detect detectives at some point investigating our partner's x files.

但为什么我们要折磨自己，去寻找那些其实并不想得知的事情呢？

But why do we torture ourselves by looking for things we don't really want to find out?

让我们来讨论一下。

Let's discuss.

但在那之前，北京故宫博物院完成了迄今为止最雄心勃勃的修复项目之一——历时十年、耗资数百万美元的养心殿全面整修。

But before that, the Palace Museum in Beijing has completed one of its most ambitious restoration projects to date, a ten year multimillion dollar overhaul of the Yang Xindian, or the Hall Of Mental Cultivation.

这一地点曾是清朝皇帝的主要居所和核心权力中心。

This site served as the primary residence and an obstruative heart of the Qing dynasty.

该项目在严格遵循六百年传统工艺的同时，运用了二十一世纪的CT扫描技术进行病灶检测，成为预防性保护的里程碑。

The project represents a landmark in preventative conservation, utilizing twenty first century CT scans for tumors while strictly adhere to 600 year old traditional craftsmanship.

今天，我们探讨在世界上最受欢迎的文化地标之一中，公众访问与遗产保护之间的微妙平衡。

Today, we examine the delicate balance between public access and heritage preservation in one of the world's most visited cultural landmarks.

是的。

Yeah.

养心殿，即养心殿。

Yang Xindian, the Hall Of Mental Cultivation.

想到这座殿内发生过的所有历史，嗯。

Now thinking about all the history going on inside of this Yeah.

就在这座殿里。

In this hall.

实际上，养心殿更像是故宫博物院内部的一个庭院。

Well, actually, the Hall Of Mental Cultivation is more of a yard inside the palace museum museum.

它建于大约五百年前的明朝，也就是清朝之前的朝代，位于紫禁城长春宫的西侧。

It was built back about five hundred years ago during the Ming dynasty, you know, the dynasty before the Qing, and it sits to the west of the Changchin Palace in the Forbidden City.

顺便说一句，如果你不熟悉的话，它也是故宫博物院。

Which, by the way, if you're not familiar, is also the Palace Museum.

名字是一样的。

It's the same name.

是的。

Yes.

紫禁城里还有许多不同的宫殿和殿堂。

They also have, like, different palaces and halls inside the Forbidden City.

但这个庭院相比其他宫殿和殿堂要小得多。

But this courtyard is relatively small compared to other palaces and other halls.

我觉得它的面积实际上还不到整个紫禁城的1%。

I think in size, it covers less than 1%, actually, of compare in the whole of the Philippine City.

它有很多房间和建筑，但都建得非常紧凑。

And and a lot it has a lot of rooms and buildings, but also built very tightly together.

这也是许多皇帝特别选择这里作为卧室兼书房兼办公室的原因之一。

And it's kind of one of the reasons why a lot of emperors choose this place in particular as their bedroom slash study room slash office.

是的。

Yes.

这是皇室的官方住所，承担着多种不同的功能。

It's the royal family's official home, which carries a lot of different functions.

而且，在古代中国，皇室是一个庞大的家族。

And also, the royal family in Chinese in in ancient China, it's a huge family.

不仅仅是皇帝本人和他的妻子。

It's not only the emperor himself and his wife, Dan.

不。

No.

一开始，他就会有许多妃嫔。

He to start with, he would have many concubines.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，还有工人、仆人也住在紫禁城里。

And also, there would be worker, the servant, living also in the Forbidden City.

由于它还承担行政事务功能，因此朝廷官员也会进入紫禁城向皇帝汇报，这使得紫禁城成为一个非常庞大的地方。如果你来北京，又对中国历史感兴趣，那么这里绝对是必访之地，这也是为什么这个地方游客众多，许多建筑和庭院需要定期翻修的原因。

And because it has functions for the administrative work, so the those who are working in the in the court would also join in go into the Forbidden City and report to the emperor, which makes the Forbidden City a really large place, and it's a place that you have to visit if you come to Beijing, if you have an interest in Chinese history, which also is the reason that the place is very much visited, and a lot of the buildings and a lot of the yards would need renovation from time to time.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Of course.

我刚才看了一部CGTN的纪录片。

I was watching a documentary, a CGTN documentary.

我没时间看完全部内容。

I didn't have time to watch the whole thing.

它有一个小时长。

It was an hour.

今天早上我看的时候，他们正在讨论紫禁城这一部分的修复工作，我记得这项工作多年前就已经开始了。

I was watching it this morning, and they were talking about the restoration of this particular part of the Forbidden City, and that it was, I believe, started many years ago.

但当修复工作启动时，这是百年来的首次修复。

But when it was started, it was the first time it had been restored in a hundred years.

嗯。

Mhmm.

看到那些参与修复工作的工程师真的很酷。

And it was really cool to see the engineers that were working on the restoration.

有一位女士正在擦拭墙壁，我想，为什么她这么仔细地擦墙呢？

There were there was one woman who was dusting a wall, and I thought, why is she dusting the walls so carefully?

原来，在她擦拭的那层表面之下，混凝土上刻有文字，她非常兴奋，说：‘我没想到自己能认出任何文字，但那里竟有一整句话。’

Well, there were characters inscribed in the concrete under that surface layer she was dusting, and she was so excited because she said, oh, I didn't think I was gonna be able to recognize any of the characters, but there was a whole sentence there.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后他们用了一种特殊的纸，成功地把文字拓印下来以便阅读。

And then they used some type of special paper and were able to lift it off to be able to read that.

我的意思是，里面发生的一切真的非常不可思议。

I mean, it's really quite incredible, all the things that have happened

在那里。

in there.

是的。

Yes.

如果你仔细想想，有这么多游客进入，踩在地板上，触碰或倚靠那些拥有数百年历史的墙壁，肯定会对建筑和区域造成某种程度的损害，这就是为什么有些地方关闭了，因为它们需要翻新。

And if you really think about it, with so many visitors going inside, stepping on the floor, reaching or leaning to the wall that has a history of more than or several 100 years, it's definitely going to do certain kind of damage to the construction site, to the area, which is why some of the places are closed because they need renovation.

有些地方关闭是因为他们只是想暂时保持原状，直到出现能够修复和维护该场所的技术，确保它能像六百年前那样完好无损。

Some of the places are closed because they just wanna keep it intact for a while before the technology required to restore, to maintain the place, making sure that they stay in the same way six hundred years ago, the kind of technology.

在相关技术出现之前，这些区域也会被保存并暂时关闭。

Before the technology emerged, these areas would also be preserved and be closed for a while.

但长江流域的情况不同。

But the Yangtzean area, it's different.

它即使在故宫这样珍贵而重要的地方，也拥有独特的地位。

It has a different position even in a place as precious and important as the Forbidden City.

是的。

Yeah.

它确实是古代中国政治的核心，至少持续了两百年。

It is the heart of ancient China's politics really for, I think, at least two hundred years.

嗯。

Mhmm.

基本上，历史上每一个重大事件，你都能在养心殿找到相关的痕迹。

Basically, every major historic event happening in the history, you can find a trace from the Hall Of Mental Cultivation from Yang Xindian happening here.

例如，当中国决定面对鸦片危机时，一位名叫林则徐的官员正是在养心殿的某个房间里策划并向上奏报的。

For example, when China decided to to to face up its opium and crisis, one of the officials called Linzhou Shu, he actually planned out and reported to the emperor inside one of the rooms of the Yang Xin Dian.

还有，当提到历史上著名的两位皇帝在帘后垂帘听政、操控年幼皇帝的情形时，这也发生在养心殿。

Also, when it comes to the famous two emperors sitting behind a curtain, you know, ordering around young emperors in the history, that also happens inside the young Xindian this time.

而且，我认为非常有趣的是，如今养心殿重新开放后，故宫博物院根据不同的历史时期，恢复了各个房间的原貌。

And also, I think very interestingly is that right now after reopening of this hall, the the the the Palace Museum actually restored their their different rooms based on different histories.

你走进房间时，并不是在重现某个历史阶段的场景。

It's not that you walk inside into the room, they're recreating a scene from a different phase of the history.

例如，在正殿里，他们重现了雍正皇帝接见臣下的场景。

For example, inside the main hall, they recreate what the emperor Yong Zheng's meeting settings.

哦。

Oh.

而在另一个房间，他们称之为西暖阁。

And in another room, they call it the West Warm Chamber.

他们实际上还原了雍正和乾隆时期的办公设计与布局。

They actually restore recreate Yongjong and Qianlong's design and and the layout of their office.

因此，当你游览养心殿时，你并不是在简单地参观，而是仿佛穿越到了清朝不同历史阶段的场景中。

So you are not walking you are sort of walking into different phases of the history of the Qing dynasty in particular when you are touring around the Hall Of Mental Cultivation.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这座建筑建于1537年。

I mean, this was built in 1537 too.

真疯狂，想想看

Crazy to And think

现在我有点明白为什么花了十年才完成修复，因为损坏得太严重了。

now I kinda get how come it took ten years for it to get to the restoration because it was seriously damaged.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们看到了结构和保护方面的风险。

We see the structural and conservation risks.

我们发现内部的状况也非常糟糕。

We see inside the conditions were also quite bad.

当我们谈到内部时，那里有绘画、书法作品以及养心殿区域的各类装饰。

And when we talk about the inside, there are paintings and calligraphy works and the kind of decorations in the Hall Of Mental Cultivation area.

修复起来并不容易，但经过十年，终于完成了。

And it is not that easy to get repaired, but after ten years, it's finally done.

是的。

Yeah.

像梁柱这样的结构已经腐朽，彩绘装饰也在剥落，显然，当你试图修复这些物品时，会非常谨慎，这也会延长修复所需的时间。

Things like beams and pillars had decayed, and the painted decorations were peeling, and obviously, you know, you're going to be very careful when you're trying to restore those things, which would add to the length of time that the restoration would need.

是的。

Yeah.

因为紫禁城内大多数建筑都是木制的。

Because most of the buildings inside well, most of the buildings inside the Forbidden City is are made of wood.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以它们会随着时间推移而腐朽。

So they get decay over time.

我还看过一部叫《我在故宫修文物》的纪录片，非常有趣。

And I think over one of the documentaries called Masters in the Forbidden City, which is very interesting.

我推荐所有听众都去看看。

I recommend all of our listeners to have a look at it.

他们观察了养心殿内的一根梁，发现底部已经完全无法修复。

They look at one of the beams inside the the whole of the cult mental cultivation, the Yang Xin Dian, and they found the bottom part is beyond repair.

你必须把它换掉。

You you have to replace it.

但那些匠人们却说，换掉整根梁时，得想想这根木头承载的所有历史。

But the masters themselves are like, but replacing a whole of beam by thinking about all the histories that you can find within this piece of wood.

我们有没有可能只替换其中一小部分呢？

How about is there a chance for us to just replace only a small part of it?

所以他们从一所大学借来了一台设备，对那根梁进行了CT扫描。

So they borrowed a machine from a university then do a sort of a CT scan of that beam.

他们发现，是的，那根梁的上部仍然完好，仍然可以使用。

And they found that, yes, the upper part of that beam is still being it still can be used.

你仍然可以翻新它。

You can still renovate it.

你仍然可以修复它。

You can still restore it.

你不需要替换它。

You don't have to replace it.

因此他们很高兴，只更换了底部部分。

So they are, like, celebrating on that, only replacing the bottom part

这才是绝对必要的。

What's absolutely necessary.

是的。

Yeah.

所以他们还检查了那些大型房间和建筑中的不同梁木和木结构。

So so they also have a look at different beams, different wood structures within that massive rooms and buildings.

我不说这很枯燥，但这是一项非常细致的工作。

And I wouldn't say it's painstaking but it's a very detailed work.

是的。

Yes.

如果你认真想想，修复它所花的时间比修复那部分还要长。

If you really think about it, it's it takes longer than Oh, renovating that too.

但我一直在想翻新自己的房子，因为你必须先移走所有珍贵的文物。

But I was thinking about renovating your own house because you need to first remove all the very precious artifacts.

我们看到这里有超过一千件可移动文物。

We see there are over 1,000 movable artifacts.

它们被小心地移走并编目，因为你们希望在完工后把它们放回去。

They were carefully removed and cataloged because you wanna put them back when you're finished.

所以确保它们得到保护也同样重要。

So making sure that they're preserved is quite important as well.

每件物品都被放入定制的四层保护箱中，以确保安全运输，其中确实有易碎物品。

And each piece was placed in a custom four layer protective box to ensure safe transport, and there are definitely fragile items.

有些物品本身也需要修复。

There are the kind of items that you the items themselves would need restoration as well.

之后，你需要进行详细的建筑测绘。

And after that, you need detailed architectural survey.

正如费费所说，这就是CT扫描发挥作用的地方。

Like Fei Fei said, that's where the CT scan come in place.

我们需要评估损坏情况，找出最佳的修复方案。

We need to make sure, like, access the damage and find out the best solution to restore it.

还有一些传统的修复技术可以派上用场。

And there are traditional repair techniques that can come up in use.

也有一些现代技术正在这个场所进行测试。

There are modern technology that you are kind of testing to use in this place.

但想想压力，要在这样一个无法承受失败的地方测试新技术。

But think about the pressure, testing the new technique in a place that cannot really afford

被损坏。

to be damaged.

你不想成为那个犯错的人。

You don't wanna be the person to make a mistake

那里。

there.

不。

No.

当然。

For sure.

当然还有培训和遗产保护。

And there is also the training and heritage preservation for sure.

十年后，我们终于看到它重新开放了。

And after ten years, finally, we're looking at it opening again.

但这并不是唯一一个历史遗址或历史建筑的某个区域或部分因翻新而关闭或重新开放的案例。

But this is not the only case of a area or a sector of a historical site or a historical architecture being opened or being closed for renovation and then reopened.

例如，在中国，我们看到像敦煌莫高窟这样的地方已经出现了许多类似的情况。

For instance, here in China, we see that there are already a lot of such cases in, for example, the Dunhuang Mo Gao Caves.

这些洞窟中，游客在进入数量有限的实体洞窟之前，先观看沉浸式的数字影片，因为大多数洞窟都已关闭，以确保游客不会对洞内的历史壁画造成损害。

That caves have we see visitors begin with immersive digital films before entering the limited number of physical caves because most of the caves are closed because now we wanna make sure that no visitors would harm the historical murals in that places.

而且在中国以外的地方，我们也看到这种做法因不同原因而发生，有的开放，有的重新开放，

And also in outside of China, we see this kind of practice happening for different reasons, opening up, reopening,

当然，也有的因各种原因而关闭。

or closed for different reasons for sure.

是的。

Yeah.

甚至在故宫博物院，我记得小时候第一次去故宫时，我们能进入很多房间，触摸桌椅、床铺，甚至一些皇帝和皇后的宝座。

Even within the Palace Museum, I remember when I was a kid, first visiting the Palace Museum, we were able to go inside a lot of rooms and basically touching the the the the desks, the beds, or some of the some of the very thrones of the the the emperors and empress.

但经过十年、二十年，我其实不太确定具体的时间跨度。

But after ten, twenty years, I'm not sure really sure about the time frame.

但目前，大多数游客无法进入这些房间，因为每天有成千上万的游客进出、触摸、呼吸，

But currently, most of the visitors are not able to go inside of this room simply because, you know, the amount of people going thousands and tens of thousands of visitors touching, breathing out

嗯。

Mhmm.

呼出空气。

Breathing in air.

你知道，现在我们还有摄像机拍摄。

You know, even now we have camera shots.

这些光线、温度、湿度的变化，都会影响故宫内部的文物。

These different changes in light, changes in temperature, humidity, affects these artifacts inside the the the the palace museum.

而且，当谈到精神修养时，比如乾隆皇帝将大量他的书画收藏品存放在这里，这些物品非常精致。

And also think when it comes to the whole of mental cultivation, for example, emperor Qianlong stored a lot of his collectibles when it comes to paintings and calligraphies inside here, which are very delicate.

一旦受损，就很难轻易修复。

And once they are damaged, there is no way to restore them that easy.

所以，我认为现在，即使在养心殿内，展出的所有书画作品基本上都是复制品，而不是真正的原物。

So that's the reason I think right now, even within the Hall Of Mental Cultivation, all of the calligraphy and paintings on display are basically duplicates, not the real relicates themselves.

因此，下次如果你参观一个非常历史悠久的地方，发现某些区域关闭了，就不要抱怨了。

And that is why next time, if you're visiting a very historical place and some of the areas closed, do not be whiny about it.

确保你理解了。

Make sure you understand.

这是为了未来的保护。

It's for future preservation.

目的是为了让后代至少能一窥真品，而不仅仅能看到目录上的图片或手机上的视频。

It's for the purpose that future generation would be able to at least have a sneak peek into the real thing instead of only able to see the pictures on the catalog or watching the video on your phone.

但是，是的，我们当然希望技术能够发展，有朝一日我们能重新开放更多这样的区域，亲身体验真实的沉浸式体验。

But, yes, we would definitely want to see the development of technology so that one day we can, you know, see the reopening of more of such areas and be able to have a real immersive experience ourselves.

你正在收听《圆桌讨论》。

You're listening to Roundtable.

接下来，我们将谈谈为什么我们会窥探现任伴侣的过剩之物。

Coming up next, we talk about why we stalk our current partners' excess.

敬请期待。

Stay tuned.

寻找激情？

Looking for passion?

那激烈的辩论呢？

How about fiery debate?

想听听不同视角下的中国时事吗？

Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives?

那就收听《圆桌派》，在这里，东西方交汇，理解是目标。

Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.

这里是《圆桌派》，我是史蒂夫·哈瑟利和狄菲菲。

This is Roundtable with me, Steve Hatherley and Di Fei Fei.

欢迎来到X游戏，一项没人能赢的运动。

Welcome to the X Games, a sport where nobody wins.

规则是虚构的，奖品是彻夜难眠和一只略带淤青的鹰。

The stakes are made up and the prize is a sleepless night and a slightly bruised eagle.

为什么我们几乎记不住自己的密码，却能清楚记得男友的前女友在2018年去了哪家咖啡馆？

Why is it that we can barely remember our own passwords, but we can remember exactly which cafe our boyfriend's ex girlfriend visited in 2018?

今天，我们要讨论的是那种无法抗拒的网络调查过去冲动，以及为什么我们的大脑本质上被编程成了历史上最差的私家侦探。

Today, we're talking about the irresistible urge to cyber investigate the past and why our brains are basically programmed to be the worst private investigators in history.

承认吧。

Admit it.

你有没有做过？

Have you ever done it?

我可以自豪地说我没有。

I can I can proudly say I have not?

哦。

Oh.

嗯。

Yeah.

如何克制查看过去的冲动？

How can you curb the urge of looking at the past?

根本没什么冲动。

There is no urge.

好吧。

Okay.

根本就不存在。

It doesn't exist at all.

我们说的是上社交媒体，你开始了新恋情，或者你已经谈了一段时间的恋爱，但你就是忍不住。

We're talking about going on to social media, you start a new relationship or you've been in a relationship for a while, you cannot resist the urge.

我觉得是菲菲说过，我觉得这在全新的恋情中经常发生。

I think it is Fei Fei said, I think it happens a lot in brand new relationships.

是的。

Yes.

你会去浏览你新伴侣的社交媒体，翻看他们所有的照片，你知道自己在做什么。

You'll go on to your your new partner's social media and you'll scroll through all your pictures, all their pictures, and you know what you're doing.

你在寻找他们过去恋情的证据，因为你心里不踏实。

You're looking for evidence of their past relationships because you are sick.

这样做没有任何好处。

There's no benefit to this.

哦，天哪。

Oh, god.

随便吧。

Whatever.

这有个术语来形容。

This is called there's a term for it.

这叫回溯性嫉妒。

It's called retro retroactive jealousy.

传统的嫉妒源于第三方。

Now, jealousy in the traditional sense comes from a third party.

对吧？

Right?

比如说，你去俱乐部，有个男人走过来跟你女朋友搭讪。

Let's say that, you go to a club and then some dude comes up and he's talking to your girlfriend.

那是主动的嫉妒。

That is active jealousy.

回溯性嫉妒是指你去浏览他们的社交媒体，看到照片里有个男人，你的大脑就开始想：他是谁？

Retroactive jealousy is when you go to their social media sites and you see there's some dude in the picture and your brain starts thinking, who's that?

哇。

Wow.

不。

No.

不。

No.

这里有一大堆问题。

There's a whole list of problems here.

那是谁？

Who's that?

那是他们的前女友/前男友吗？

Is that their ex?

哇。

Wow.

他真帅。

He's good looking.

哇。

Wow.

他的身材比我好。

He's got a better body than me.

天啊。

Oh my god.

她和他在一起更快乐。

She was happier with him.

看看她有多开心。

Look how happy she is.

现在才发现，那是她的同事。

Now it turns out that was her coworker.

这种事很常见。

That happens.

但这就是问题所在。

But this is the problem.

你的大脑会开始填补缺失的部分，让你越想越糟。

Your brain starts filling in the missing pieces to make yourself feel worse and worse and worse.

而这一切的起点，一定是因为你在某个时刻感到不安全。

And the starting point must be because you're in insecure at a certain point.

你在担心。

You're worrying about.

你觉得自己不是伴侣眼中‘最好的选择’，而对方绝对是你的最佳选择。

You're not the quote unquote best choice of your partner, and the partner is definitely the best choice of yours.

当我们如此痴迷于伴侣的过去时，我们的大脑里究竟发生了什么？

So what is happening in our brains when we are really that obsessed over our partner's past?

是的。

Yeah.

这来自几位不同的医生。

This is from a couple of different doctors.

一位叫格雷戈里·怀特，另一位叫保罗·穆伦，他们在1989年的合作研究中指出，嫉妒的产生并非因为关系即将结束或失败，而是源于过去的某些琐事——这些小事可能损害了主要关系中的某些特质。

One named Gregory White and and another, Paul Mullen, who identified this problem in their 1989 work together, that jealousy can emerge not because the relationship is ending or failing, but because of a past trivial thing, arrival that might damage certain qualities in the primary relationship.

这是他们合作研究中的一句引述。

Now that's a quote from their work together.

基本上，他们说的是，我们每个人内心都有一种核心情感机制，可能被一种恐惧驱动——即我们不够特别，而这就是浏览你前任或当前伴侣在社交媒体上的照片时的问题：首先，你并不知道你看到的是否真的如你所想。

Basically, what they're saying is there's a core emotional mechanism inside of all of us that can be driven by the fear that we are not special enough, and that's the problem with looking at your exes or sorry, your current relationship's pictures on social media is that, first of all, you don't know what you're seeing is is actually what you think you're seeing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这就是为什么我举了同事的例子，你一直以为那是他们的前任。

That's why I gave the example of coworker and you you were convinced that's their ex.

但你开始比较，开始想，哇哦。

But you start comparing and you start seeing the, oh, wow.

看他们在照片里多开心啊。

Look how happy they look in this picture.

即使那真的是他们的前任，你也会开始想，我不够好。

Even if it is their real ex, and you start thinking, I'm not good enough.

但另一个问题是，这是社交媒体。

Now, another problem with that is that it's social media.

社交媒体旨在捕捉每个人生活中最美好的时刻。

Social media is cultivated to capture the greatest moments in everyone's lives.

没人会上传自己和前任吵架的照片。

Nobody puts a picture of themselves fighting with their ex.

嗯。

Yeah.

这张照片拍之前他们可能正在吵架。

They could be fighting the minute before this photo.

或者拍完之后。

Or the minute after.

嗯。

Yeah.

但他们依然会在照片里微笑。

But they will be still smiling in that.

是的。

Yeah.

所以请记住这一点。

So just take into account this.

如果你是一个经常上社交媒体查看现任伴侣前任的人，这是我给你的最好建议。

This is this is my best advice if you're a person who goes onto social and checks your current partner's exes.

他们已经不再在一起了，而且他们分开一定有原因。

They're not together anymore, and there's a reason they're not together anymore.

他们彼此并不幸福，所以别为此担心，也别浪费时间。

They weren't happy with each other, so don't worry about it, and don't waste your time.

你知道吗，作为一个心理状态并不那么健康的人，我从史蒂夫之前的评论中只听到了一点：那就是一定有原因。

You know, as someone who's not that quote unquote healthy mentally, the only thing I heard from Steve's previous comment was that there's a reason for that.

现在我忍不住去想，哦，哦，那到底是什么原因呢？

And now I cannot help but thinking about, oh, oh, what what was that reason?

那个原因会不会导致我和我现任的分手呢？

Will will that reason cause the departure of me and my current You're

你这是在毫无理由地折磨自己。

torturing yourself for no reason whatsoever.

对我来说，这些都是重要的线索。

Well, for me, that's important clues.

看到了吗？

See?

什么？

To what?

应该告诉你伴侣是个怎样的人。

Should tell what person your partner is.

他们为什么会分手？

Why would they break up?

嗯。

Yeah.

原因是什么？

What was the reason?

这里的底线是什么？

What's the deal breaker here?

嗯。

Yeah.

是因为他身上有什么原因吗？

Is it because something about him?

这是我也能触发的事情吗？

Is this something that I can also trigger?

嗯。

Yeah.

有时候我将来也会遇到吗？

Sometime or I can also encounter in the future?

让我换一个角度试试。

Let me try a different angle.

好的。

Okay.

好吧。

Alright.

好的。

Fine.

好吧。

Okay.

所以我们都很疯狂，每天都要花四个小时上网，盯着伴侣的前任看。

So we're all crazy, and we're all gonna go on the Internet for four hours every day looking at our partner's exes.

好吧。

Okay.

你的最终目标是什么？

What's your endgame?

这非常困难。

That's very difficult.

你这么做想得到什么？

Do you want from doing that?

你的目标是什么？

What's your goal?

你这样折磨自己，觉得会发生什么？

What do you think is gonna happen by you torturing yourself like that?

所以你要坐下来对你现在的伴侣说：宝贝，我今天在Instagram上看了四个小时。

So you're gonna sit down with your current partner and say, so babe, I was on Insta today for four hours.

不。

No.

不。

No.

我只是说不。

I was just no.

不。

No.

我只是在痴迷地看你的旧照片。

I was just obsessing over your old pictures.

那你所有的前任关系里都发生了什么？

So what happened in all of your ex relationships?

一个一个地告诉我。

Tell me one by one by one.

那不会是一场好的对话。

That's not gonna be a good conversation.

我不喜欢这种对话，但可能发生的是，如果你真的想要，因为我认为从根本上说，这其实并不是关于前女友。

I don't like that conversation, but what can happen is that if you really want because I think deep down, it's not really about the ex.

这总是关于现在的伴侣。

It's always about the current partner.

你真正想知道的是他的偏好是什么？

And what you really wanna know is what's his preference?

他想要什么？

What does he want?

他的底线是什么？

What's the deal breaker for him?

我们关系中他看重的是什么？

What's in our relationship that he values?

有个有趣的想法。

Here's a fun idea.

去问他。

Ask him.

这正是我想说的。

That's what I'm gonna say.

因为他们有时不会说真话。

Because sometimes they don't tell the truth.

你只能通过观察他们的过去来了解他们的界限，例如。

You can only learn about their, for example, boundaries by looking at their past.

这是你们关系中的另一个问题，需要解决。

That is another problem your relationship really has and need to be solved.

所以，这里的要点是，要和你的伴侣沟通，他们应该是你最亲近的人，沟通总比网络跟踪要好。

So, again, the idea here is that to talk to your partner, they're supposed to be be the closest relationship you have, and communication is always a bit better than cyberstalking.

而且要确保，只要你拥有更健康的关系，这种行为可能一年只发生一次，而不是每天都有。

And make sure that as long as you have a healthier relationship, maybe this kind of behavior would only happen once in a year instead of every day.

你知道我们今天改变了什么吗？

And you know what we changed today?

什么都没变。

Nothing.

因为没人会遵守我们刚才说的任何内容。

Because nobody's gonna follow anything we just said.

但你其实好好想想。

But actually think about it.

这就结束了我们今天的圆桌讨论。

And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.

下次再见，继续保持对话，让想法不断涌现。

Until next time, keep the conversations going and the ideas flowing.

我是Neil Hong Lin，和Steve、Fei Fei一起。

I'm Neil Hong Lin with Steve and Fei Fei.

感谢收听。

Thank you for listening.

再见。

Bye bye.