你是在生活，还是在记录生活？

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

您正在收听圆桌论坛。

You're listening to Roundtable.

今天我和星宇、玉顺一起主持。

I'm Steve Hatherley today with Xingyu and Yushun.

接下来是。

Coming up.

它们看起来完美无瑕。

They look perfect.

它们几乎在发光。

They glow almost.

但总觉得哪里不对劲。

Yet something feels off.

本周，玉顺登上讲台，揭示了一个隐藏在水果核心处、显而易见的现代谜团。

This week, Yushun grabs the soapbox and traces a modern mystery hidden in plain sight in the very heart of a fruit.

人们似乎对自己的草莓大小感到困扰。

People seem to be having a problem with the size of their strawberries.

敬请关注这一内容。

Stay tuned for that.

接着，欢迎来到量化自我的时代，在这个时代，我们优化每一次心跳和每小时的睡眠。

And then, welcome to the era of the quantified self where we optimize every heartbeat and hour of sleep.

所有这些数据承诺带来掌控感，但我们感受到的压力又该如何看待？

All this data promises control, but what about the pressure we feel?

今天，我们将探讨：记录你的生活，究竟是帮助你更好地生活，还是反而成了阻碍？

Today, we'll ask, does tracking your life actually help you live it or just get in the way?

我们的播客听众可以在苹果播客上搜索“Roundtable China”找到我们，也别忘了我们非常期待听到你们的声音。

Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts and don't forget that we love to hear your voice too.

所以，请给我们发送一段语音留言。

So send us a voice note.

请将您对我们在这里讨论的任何话题的想法发送给我们。

Send them our way with any of the thoughts that you might have on any of the things that we discuss here on Roundtable.

以下是联系方式。

Here's how you get in touch.

Roundtable podcast at qq.com。

Roundtable podcast at qq.com.

再次提醒，Roundtable podcast at qq.com。

Once again, round table podcast at qq.com.

现在。

And now.

他们会说什么呢？

What are they gonna say?

说吧。

Say.

请注意。

Hear ye.

注意了。

Hear ye.

请围过来。

Please gather round.

该上讲台了。

It's time for the soapbox.

又是时候上讲台了，这个环节我们会挑选最近在网络上传播的故事，然后分享我们真实的看法。

It is time once again for the soapbox, a segment where we pick a story that has been circulating online as of late and then share our real opinion about what's going on.

这叫讲台，因为这是我们畅所欲言、表达对这个故事真实感受的机会。

It's called the soapbox because it's our chance to get off of our chest exactly how we feel about the story.

玉新，这周轮到你上讲台了。

Yushin, you've got the soapbox this week.

全交给你了，你选了草莓。

It's all yours, and you chose strawberries.

嗯。

Yeah.

我不确定你是不是粉丝。

I'm not sure if you are a fan or not.

我是这种美味草莓的铁粉。

I am a big fan of these rad strawberries.

确实，我是。

Indeed, I am.

你喜欢怎么吃草莓呢？

How do you enjoy eating your strawberries?

它们就是，你知道的，多汁、甜美，这种东西在冬天可不常见。

They're just, you know, juicy, sweet, something that is you you you cannot very frequently see in winter.

是啊。

Yeah.

我奶奶以前会把它们切片，放在碗里，加点奶油，嗯。

My grandmother used to slice them up, put them in a bowl with some cream Mhmm.

然后在上面撒一点糖。

And then sprinkle a little bit of sugar on top.

哦。

Oh.

我意识到，我祖母把糖撒在所有东西上。

My grandmother put sugar on everything, I realized.

是的。

Yeah.

听起来很好吃，绝对好吃。

That sounds good and tastes good, absolutely.

随着草莓季节全面到来，一些担忧又浮现了。

And with strawberry season now in full swing, there are some concerns are resurfacing.

近年来，有说法称草莓是最脏的水果，最脏的。

In recent years, the claim that strawberries are the dirtiest fruit Dirtiest.

这一说法被一些社交媒体反复放大。

Has been repeatedly amplified by some social media

为什么是最脏的？

Why dirtiest?

你知道吗，因为草莓表面不平整，有很多小坑和凹陷。

You know, because strawberries have an, like, uneven surface or with many small pits and crevices.

对吧？

Right?

一些消费者担心，很难彻底清洗干净，或者残留的农药会比较多。

Some consumers just worry that they it's very difficult to clean them thoroughly or just the main return pesticide residues.

所以

So

这些说法声称草莓的农药残留率最高，而且它们越来越大的尺寸也是某些膨大剂——也就是化学物质——的结果。

these claims alleged that strawberries have the these highest pesticide residue rates that they their increasingly large size is also the result of some swelling agents, basically, the chemicals.

但就在几天前，这个问题再次回到公众视野，话题标签‘草莓多年来被冤枉了’引起了关注。

But just a few days ago, this issue this issue searched back into the public spotlight, the hashtag strawberries have been wronged for years.

草莓多年来被冤枉了。

Strawberries have been wronged.

是啊。

Yeah.

在中国社交媒体平台上 trending。

Trended on China's social media platform.

草莓是无辜的。

Strawberries are innocent.

它们完全无辜。

They are totally innocent.

这个话题吸引了超过五千七百万次浏览和三万多条评论，推动了这一议题进入更广泛的公众讨论。

And this topic drawed, like, more than 57,000,000 views and more than 30,000 discussions, pushing this topic into a broader public conversation.

这正是我们正在讨论的膨大剂。

And that's what we're talking about, swelling agents.

根据植物学家兼科学作家西金的说法，所谓的膨大剂是氯吡脲、尿素或CPPU。

According to Xijin, who is the botanist and science writer, who is also really active online, the so called swelling agent is chlorpyridine, urea, or CPPU.

这是一种植物生长调节剂。

That's a plant growth regulator.

所以问题在于，这种东西你叫什么来着？

So the issue here is that this grow what did you call it?

一个生长剂？

A a growing agent?

嗯。

Mhmm.

一种植物生长调节剂。

A plant growth regulator.

好的。

Okay.

这种膨大剂会让草莓变大。

This swelling agent, it makes the strawberries bigger.

它会让某种东西变大，但不是草莓。

It makes something bigger, but not the strawberry.

但这就是网上人们争论的问题。

But this is the issue online that people are debating.

是的。

Yes.

这种物质并未被禁止。

This is not a banned substance.

它通过调节植物激素、促进细胞分裂和膨大来发挥作用，常用于猕猴桃和西瓜等作物，并非草莓特有。

It works by regulating plant hormones, increasing cell division and enlargement, and is commonly used in crops like kiwifruit and melons, not uniquely associated with strawberries.

于是记者试图探究这一切背后的科学真相。

So reporters tried to find out what's behind the this all of the science.

于是他们前往中国东部的山东省的农场。

So they they went to the farm and in in Shandong province in Eastern China.

来自山东省的草莓种植户曹祖玲解释说，当地草莓种植并不依赖这些被称为CPPU的药剂。

Cao Zuling, who is a strawberry grower from Shandong province, explained that local strawberry production does not depend on these agents, called CPPU.

当地专家表示，膨大剂虽然能增大果实尺寸，但会使果肉变软、风味下降，并降低草莓在运输过程中的耐储性。

Local experts said that swelling agents may increase size but soften the flesh, reduce their flavor, and make strawberries less durable during transport.

由于当地草莓主要通过电子商务销售，需要约一周的货架期，因此这些膨大剂在经济上并不划算。

And because local strawberries are sold mostly via e commerce and require about one week of shelf life, these swelling agents are economically impractical.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

因此，植物生长调节剂相对昂贵，从成本效益角度来看，它们对草莓的产量或品质提升有限，农民几乎没有动力使用它们。

So plant growth regulators are relatively expensive as well and offer limited improvement in yield or quality for strawberries than from a cost benefit standpoint, farmers gain little incentive to use them.

所以他们没有理由使用这些物质或其他类似的东西。

So there's no reason for them to use these agents or something.

所以所以

So So

你的意思是，这些草莓虽然个头大，但并不是因为农民使用了膨大剂。

what you're saying is that these strawberries, they are big, but they're not because of the swelling agent that farmers use.

是的。

Yeah.

他们还向一些科学家和专家询问，为什么近年来草莓变得越来越大，因为这确实是正在发生的现象。

And they actually asked some of the scientists and experts to find out why recent years, the strawberries are getting bigger because that's the fact we're seeing.

对吧？

Right?

它们变得更红、更亮、更红了。

They're getting redder, shinier Redder.

而且有光泽

And glossy

它们很漂亮。

They are pretty.

确实很漂亮。

They really are.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Yeah.

为回应这些网络谣言，山东龙科农业技术推广中心副主任范春辉澄清道，早期上市的草莓是通过改进的栽培方法培育的，例如新品种、优质种子、智能化种植，以及通过精确控制光照和温度、更精准的水肥管理，种植者能够促进草莓健康、高质量地膨大。

So to address these online rumors, Fan Chunghui, who is a deputy director at this Longco Agricultural Technology Promoting Center in Shandong clarified that early strawberries are produced through improved cultivation methods like new breeds, better seeds, smarter farming, through measures such as precise control of light and temperature, more accurate water and fertilizer management, growers are able to promote healthy, high quality fruit enlargement.

这些方法使草莓长得更大、更甜、更符合市场需求，同时也增加了农民的收入。

And these methods allow strawberries to grow bigger, sweeter, and more market friendly while also increasing farmers' income.

你对人们在网上攻击无辜的草莓已经厌倦了。

And you are sick and tired of people attacking the innocent strawberry online.

是啊。

This yeah.

因为这个话题已经持续好几年了。

Because this topic has gone and on and on for years.

基本上每年我们都会讨论。

Basically, every year we talk

是啊。

Yeah.

我们在线上讨论过。

We we we had the discussion online.

我觉得我也一样，我在超市买东西时看到特别大的草莓，就会怀疑这是否是天然的。

I think me too, when I was shopping in the supermarket and I saw strawberries that are too big, then I would doubt that is that natural.

是啊。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

然后你会问，这只是化学物质还是

And then you ask, is it just chemical or

对，或者是技术。

Yeah, or technology.

是的，

Yeah,

这些都不是什么新信息，这让我忍不住要发表一番高论。

none of this is new information and that is something that brings me up onto my soapbox.

因为这种对草莓的恐慌，我们已经讨论过一百次了。

Because this strawberry panic, we've had this conversation a 100 times.

几乎是逐字逐句，年复一年，专家们解释，农民们解释，监管机构也解释。

Almost word for word, year after year, experts explain it, farmers explain it, regulators explain it.

但每当草莓季节再次到来时，就好像大家集体把一切都忘了。

And yet when strawberry season comes back, it's like everyone collectively forgot everything.

正是这一点让我真的感到恼火。

And that's the part that really gets me.

并不是人们无法接触到事实。

It's not that people don't have access to facts.

事实无处不在。

The facts are everywhere.

但事实在信念面前毫无胜算。

It's the facts don't stand a chance against belief.

人们相信谣言，并不是因为它们有说服力。

People don't believe rumors because they're convincing.

而是因为他们愿意相信。

They believe them because they want to.

如果你本来就对食品安全感到焦虑，那么一颗巨大的草莓就成了证据。

If you already feel anxious about food safety, then a giant strawberry becomes proof.

如果你本来就对现代农业不信任，那么技术听起来自然就是邪恶的。

If you already distrust modern agriculture, then technology automatically sounds evil.

如果你是一个急需点击量的社交媒体账号，恭喜你。

And if you're a social media account desperate for clicks, congratulations.

没有什么比可食用的恐惧传播得更快了。

Nothing spreads faster than fear you can eat.

老实说，这还挺让人安心的，不是吗？

And honestly, it's kind of comforting, isn't it?

相信背后有个隐藏的反派、一种秘密的化学物质，能用简单的解释来应对复杂的世界。

Believing there's a hidden villain, a secret chemical, a simple explanation for a complicated world.

因为接受农业是复杂、受监管且主要由效率而非阴谋驱动的真相，需要付出努力。

Because accepting the truth that agriculture is complex, regulated, and mostly driven by efficiency, not conspiracy, that takes effort.

这里还有另一个我们讨论得不够多的角度。

And here's another angle we don't talk about enough.

这种持续的怀疑实际上伤害了那些做事正确的人。

This constant suspicion actually hurts the people doing things right.

遵守规则的农民、花费数十年改进作物的研究人员，甚至那些陷入恐惧循环而非做出知情选择的消费者。

Farmers who follow the rules, researchers who spend decades improving crops, even consumers who end up trapped in a cycle of fear instead of informed choice.

所以，不。

So no.

这其实根本不是关于草莓的问题。

This isn't really about strawberries.

而是关于我们如何倾听、信任谁，以及我们是否真的关心真相，还是仅仅想强化自己已有的信念。

It's about how we listen, who we trust, and whether we're actually interested in the truth or just in reinforcing what we already believe.

这就是为什么这个看似微小平凡的故事每年都会反复出现。

And that's why this story as small and ordinary as it seems keeps coming back every single year.

那么我们该如何应对呢？

So what do we do with this?

我不认为答案是盲目地相信一切。

I don't think the answer is trust everything blindly.

这不现实，而且说实话，也不健康。

That's not realistic, and honestly, that's not healthy either.

质疑食品安全并不是问题。

Questioning food safety isn't the problem.

好奇心也不是问题。

Curiosity isn't the problem.

怀疑本身并不是敌人。

Skepticism by itself isn't the enemy.

真正的问题在于，当疑问浮现在我们脑海后，我们该如何行动。

The real issue is what we do after the question pops into our heads.

我们是否只满足于第一个情感上令人欣慰的解释？

Do we stop at the first explanation that feels emotionally satisfying?

还是我们会多停五秒钟，问一问：这是谁说的？

Or do we pause for five extra seconds and ask who's saying this?

基于什么依据？

On what basis?

为什么我如此轻易地就相信了它？

And why am I so ready to believe it?

也许我们需要的不是更多专家大声疾呼，而是作为听众养成更好的习惯。

Maybe what we need isn't more experts shouting louder but better habits as listeners.

在转发那条帖子前放慢脚步，接受那些平淡无奇的答案，承认新事物并不自动意味着糟糕，技术也不总是有害的。

Slowing down before forwarding that post, being okay with an answer that's boring, Accepting the new doesn't automatically mean bad and the technology doesn't always mean harmful.

所以，下次你看到一颗巨大的草莓并产生一丝怀疑时，也许别急于下结论。

So the next time you see a giant strawberry and feel that little spark of suspicion, maybe don't rush to a conclusion.

提出问题。

Ask questions.

是的。

Yes.

但也要倾听答案，即使它们不是你期望的答案。

But also listen to the answers even if they're not the ones you were hoping for.

因为真正有见识的考验，不在于我们质疑得多大声，而在于我们是否愿意改变想法。

Because the real test of being informed isn't how loudly we doubt, it's whether we're willing to change our minds.

好吧，我被说服了。

Well, I'm convinced.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

真是一番精彩的演讲。

What a speech.

太好了。

That's great.

在我看来，这其实挺可爱的。

So this is quite cute actually in my opinion.

所以每年冬天，草莓季到来时，中国网民都会问：为什么这些草莓长得这么漂亮、这么大？

So every single year during the wintertime, strawberry season comes out and then Chinese netizens say, hey, why are these strawberries so beautiful and big?

然后科学家和农民们就会出来回应：这些草莓没什么问题。

And then the scientists come out and the farmers respond by saying, there's nothing wrong with these strawberries.

到了明年，人们又问：为什么这些草莓这么大、这么好吃？

And then next year, hey, why are these strawberries so big and delicious?

这些草莓没什么问题。

There's nothing wrong with the strawberries.

这就像一年一度的惯例，或许已经成为文化的一部分了。

And it's just like an annual it's becoming perhaps part of the culture.

是啊。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

从积极的角度来看，这正逐渐成为一种庆祝活动。

In a positive way, it's becoming kind of celebration.

当人们庆祝农业技术的进步，尤其是先进的

When people are celebrating the advancement of the technology in agriculture with advanced

抱怨。

Complaining.

是的。

Yeah.

高级抱怨。

Advanced complaining.

这个说法真不错。

That was a good one.

所以就是这样。

So there you go.

下次你在网上看到有人说他们不信任草莓时，不妨自己多做一点研究，看看真相究竟是什么。

The next time you see online, you know, people saying they don't trust their strawberries, maybe just do a little bit of extra research on your own to find out what the truth may be.

干得好，玉新。

Well done, Yushin.

谢谢你的分享。

Thanks for that.

你正在收听《圆桌论坛》，接下来，你的生活将变成一个仪表盘。

You're listening to Roundtable and coming up, your life is now a dashboard.

但当自我提升变成追逐分数时，我们究竟在衡量什么？

But when self improvement becomes score chasing, what are we really measuring?

寻找激情？

Looking for passion?

那热烈的辩论呢？

How about fiery debate?

想听听不同视角下的中国时事吗？

Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives?

那么请收听《圆桌论坛》，在这里东西方交汇，目标是相互理解。

Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.

这是《圆桌论坛》。

This is Roundtable.

今天我是史蒂夫，和静宇与玉顺一起。

I'm Steve today with Jingyu and Yushun.

欢迎来到这样一个时代：你的心跳、饮食甚至专注力都被转化为数字。

Welcome to the age where your heartbeat, your meals, and even your focus get turned into numbers.

这就是量化自我的世界。

This is the world of the quantified self.

通过数字实现自我认知的理念。

The idea of self knowledge through numbers.

如今的智能手表会评估你的睡眠，应用程序不断提醒你补水，专注模式则试图将你从手机中拯救出来。

Today's smartwatches score our sleep, apps nag us to hydrate, and focus modes try to rescue us from our own phones.

科技基本上已经成为了我们个人的生活助手。

Tech has basically become our personal life assistant.

当然，所有这些追踪都能带来力量感。

And sure, all this tracking can be empowering.

它帮助我们发现模式，培养良好的习惯，并感到自己对生活更有掌控感，但这也有一面负面。

It helps us spot patterns and build hopefully good habits and feel a little bit more in control, but there's a flip side to this.

当自我提升变成追求分数时，我们就可能陷入焦虑、比较，甚至可能篡改数据，操纵数字以让自己看起来更好。

When self improvement turns into score chasing, then we risk sliding into anxiety, perhaps comparison, and even maybe cheating the numbers, gaming the data so that we end up looking good.

量化自我。

Quantified self.

这一运动从何而来？

Where did this movement come from?

它到底意味着什么？

What's it all about?

是的。

Yeah.

基本上，这是一种利用可测量的指标来追踪身心健康的概念，比如记录今天走了多少步、每天喝了多少水，或者昨晚的睡眠质量如何。

So basically, it's a concept where you use these measurable metrics to track your physical and mental health like recording how many steps you walk today or how much water you drink per day or how your sleep quality was last night.

通过主动收集这些数据，你可以管理自己的生活方式，或提升自我认知。

So by proactively collecting these data, you can manage your lifestyle or you can expand your own self awareness.

但这一概念实际上源于2007年的量化自我运动，由《连线》杂志的创始人凯文·凯利和他的合作伙伴加里·沃尔夫发起。

But that actually comes from the twenty two thousand and seven, the quantified self movement which was started by Kevin Kelly, who is the founder of Wired magazine and also his partner Gary Wolf.

你了解他们吗？

Do you know about them?

不了解。

No.

我知道我知道，《连线》这个媒体平台。

I know I know I know the media outlet Wired.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Yeah.

而第二天，这一运动就开始了。

And Day two started this movement.

最初，这个运动局限于一个本地团体。

So initially, the movement was contained within a local group.

它被称为湾区量化自我聚会小组。

It's called the Bay Area Quantified Self Meetup Group.

然后它随着时间的推移不断扩大。

And then it is just it's expanding over time.

现在它已经发展成为一个全球性的自我追踪者网络。

And now it's has grown into a global network of self trackers.

是的。

Yeah.

所以它更侧重于通过这些数据获得自我认知。

So it's more like focused on self knowledge through these numbers.

是的。

Yeah.

这个想法可能源于此，但这种现象已经存在了几十年。

This idea may be from that, but this kind of phenomenon has been there for, I would say, decades.

几十年？

Decades?

这么久了。

For for so long.

好吧。

Okay.

因为你知道，我们已经有这些应用或手表、智能手表、智能手环很久了，它们可以追踪你的步数、心率等等，你还可以记录你的工作效率。

Because, you know, we've been having these apps or your watches, your smart watches, your your bands, smart bands for so long, and it can track your steps, your heart rate, and everything, and you can record your work efficiency.

每15分钟，你就可以休息一下，然后重新开始。

Every 15 time, you can get a little rest and then start again.

所以这些东西已经存在很久了，也许人们正是一点一点地建立起这种量化整个人生的生活方式。

So these things has been there for so long, and that maybe just piece by piece people build that kind of a lifestyle of quantifying their whole life.

是的。

Yeah.

饮食习惯，对吧？食物、饮食日记，你可以追踪卡路里，这方面的应用很多。

Dietary habits, right, food, food diaries, you can track your calories, there are apps for that.

有一些应用程序可以帮助人们了解他们的饮食模式，中国也有这样的应用。

There are apps that help and there are apps here in China that help people realize their eating patterns.

我不想知道自己的饮食模式。

I don't think I wanna know my eating patterns.

它们甚至能识别出情绪化进食等诱因，从而帮助你找到更好的应对方式。

They can they can even identify triggers like emotional eating so that they can find or you can find better ways to cope.

所以有饮食类应用、时间管理类应用，还有非常多其他类型的应用。

So there's diet, there's time management apps, there's just so many.

但正如你所说，玉欣，这种趋势已经存在很久了，我认为‘生活记录’这个词已经成为年轻人中的一种庞大文化。

But this trend, as you said, Yushin, has been around for a long time, and I think the term is life logging has become such a huge culture for for young people.

记录你 waking 和 sleeping 时刻几乎所有行为的每一个细节。

Logging logging all the details of everything you do at almost every moment of your waking and sleeping hours.

你知道，当我们看到这些时，进入门槛降低是很多人这样做的原因之一。

You know, when we're seeing these things, lower barriers to entry is one of the reasons that a lot of people are doing that.

因为如今硬件成本更低了。

Because the hardware costs are lower these days.

比如，智能手表比以前便宜多了。

Like, smartwatches are cheaper than they used to be.

有时候你甚至不需要智能手表。

Sometimes you don't even need a smartwatch.

你不需要任何设备来做这件事。

You you don't need a device for that.

一个应用就够了。

Just an app.

只是一个应用，一款软件。

Just an app, a software.

你可以记录一切，每一个细节，你吃了什么，等等。

You can just log everything, every detailed information, what you eat and everything.

而这类东西的价格下降，让年轻人、学生或预算有限的上班族也能轻松使用这些工具，这种对秩序和掌控的需求，确实会让人感到非常满足。

And then the drop in these kind of things make things accessible and make tools touchable for young people, students, or just professionals on a budget, and that kind of a need for order and control makes you feel that very, very satisfactory to be honest.

当你看到，你知道是什么吗？

When you have when you look at you know what?

不管你用什么品牌的手机，你都可以随时打开健康应用，查看你能记录多少数据，说实话。

No matter what kind of brand that you're using, the the cell phone of your brand that you're using, you can always go to your health app to check how many things that you can record, to be honest.

我有一个健康应用。

I have a health app.

哦，那个应用里就是这些内容吗？

Oh, is that what's inside that app?

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我有这个应用，但我从来没打开过。

Because I have it, and I have opened it zero times.

你根本不关心自己的健康。

You don't care about your health.

这不对，我稍后会解释。

That's not true, and I'll explain in a few minutes.

好的。

Okay.

关键是，它可能在后台默默为你记录一些数据，并提醒你：现在该站起来活动了。

The thing is that maybe seamlessly it is recording something for you and maybe remind you, now it is time you can stand up.

现在该喝点水了。

Now it is time you can drink some water.

就是这类事情。

That that type of thing.

你可以打开你的健康应用。

You can open your health app.

你会发现，只要设备支持，它能追踪从呼吸到心理健康的各种数据。

You'll find, like, as long as the the the the thing, they can go from breathing to your mental health.

这就是为什么我这么烦这件事。

This is why this annoys me so much.

不是这样的，星宇，我确实关心我的健康，但我真的需要提醒我站起来吗？

It's like, no, Xingyu, I do care about my health, but do I need a remind stand up?

真的吗？

Really?

我需要手机上的闹钟来提醒我呼吸吗？

Do I need an alarm on my phone to tell me to breathe?

有时候确实需要。

Sometimes you do.

提醒

Remind

你让我提醒人们，他们正在失去对自己的信心。

you I to drink people are losing confidence in themselves.

自我管理？

Self management?

照顾好自己。

To take care of themselves.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

我有个在韩国的朋友，他至今还是我的朋友。

I had a friend in Korea, he's still my friend.

他脖子后面戴了一个小装置，我看到后问这是什么，他看起来随时都能接入矩阵。

He had a little device on the back of his neck and I saw I asked what what is he looked like he could plug into the matrix at any tone.

我问他这个是干什么用的？

I said what is that for?

他说哦，最近我觉得自己的姿势不太好。

He said oh, well, I feel like my posture isn't great these days.

好吧。

Okay.

所以他脖子后面那个小装置会给他电击。

So the little thing on the back of his neck shocks him.

什么？

What?

有个应用程序在

There's an app on

他的手机上。

his phone.

真的吗？

Really?

是啊。

Yeah.

它会电他。

It shocks him.

它会发出电击，让他挺直肩膀或背部，每十五分钟一次。

It sends a shock so that he'll like straighten up his shoulders or his back and it does it like every fifteen minutes.

所以我们正在一起做一档广播节目，对吧？

So we're doing a radio we're doing a radio show together, right?

突然间，我瞥了一眼，他却说：好吧。

And all of a sudden, I look over and he's like, okay.

怎么了？

What happened?

你被停下了吗？

Did you get stopped?

他说：‘是啊，这东西提醒我调整姿势。’

He's like, yeah, the thing just told me to fix my posture.

是啊，不过这方法好像还真管用。

Yeah, but that works, I guess.

嗯。

Yeah.

我的意思是，

I mean,

没错，这让我想起另一位同事。

yeah, And to be that actually reminds me of another colleague.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她正在控制体重，所以每次吃饭时，她都会拍下饭菜的照片，通过一个特定的应用程序。

She she is controlling her weight, so every time she has her meal, she'll take a photo of her meal and through a particular app Mhmm.

它可以计算出这顿饭含有多少卡路里，这样你就能决定这顿饭吃多少。

It can calculate how much calorie that meal contains and so that you can decide how much I eat for this particular meal.

有问题。

Question.

她会把照片上传到应用里吗？

Does she put the picture into the app Mhmm.

如果是不健康的零食呢？

If it's an unhealthy snack?

我觉得她不太吃那么多不健康的食物。

I think she she doesn't eat that much unhealthy food.

关键是对自己诚实。

Thing is that being honest to yourself.

你明白我的意思吧。

See what I'm getting at though.

对吧？

Right?

但确实如此。

But that yeah.

对于这类人来说，有一件事就是他们想要量化一切，甚至包括他们吃的食物，是的。

That is one thing for these kind of people, and they want to quantify everything, even the food that they're eating Yes.

这样他们就能更好地了解自己吃了什么、摄入了多少卡路里，以及这对他们的饮食是否有益。

So that they can have a better clue on what they're eating, how much calories I'm eating, and it is good for my, like, diet or something.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这种思维方式让你觉得，如果我能量化生活的方方面面，我就有把握了。

So that kind of mindset make you feel that if I can quantify every aspect of my life, I am assured.

更好的掌控。

In better control.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但这就是我的问题。

But see, this is my question.

是的。

Yeah.

这种控制真的是你自己的控制，还是你把控制权交给了数字？

Is that control or have you just handed control over to the to the numbers?

嗯。

Mhmm.

那么到底是谁

So who's actually That

这很复杂。

is tricky.

对吧？

Right?

到底谁才是真正掌控一切的人？

Who's actually in control?

所以我认为在过去，我们每天都会对你的步数进行排名。

So that's why I think in the past, well, we have this ranking every day for your step that you take this particular day.

你可以在微信上和朋友比较或竞争。

And you can compare or compete with your friends on WeChat.

然后有些人，他们想要在排行榜上获得最高排名。

And then some people, they want to have this highest ranking on the chart.

所以他们就像手环戴在手腕上，他们就只是摇晃他们的手腕，摆动他们的

So they just like the band is on their wrist, so they're just shaking their Swing their

手腕。

wrist.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

为了增加数字。

To add up to the numbers.

为了作弊。

To cheat.

他们作弊。

They cheat.

所以我认为，这是整个趋势的另一面。

So that's I think that's the flip side of this whole trend.

我认为，只要你把它们当作帮助自己更好地理解日常生活中所有数据的工具，那就没问题，因为你实际上在使用它们，也许你用它们来改善习惯、饮食或其他方面。

I think as long as you are treating it as a tool to help yourself have a better understanding on all of these data that you have in your daily life, it is fine because you're actually using them, and maybe you are using that for better habit or diet and or everything.

但我们之前讨论过，有些人佩戴智能手表或手环来监测睡眠目标等，结果当他们睡不好时，反而更加焦虑了。

But we had this discussion before when some people, they're wearing a, let's say, smartwatch or handband to to test their sleep, like, goals and everything, and then they start to get even more anxious when they cannot sleep well.

这正是我的观点。

That's my point.

那么，我们能做些什么呢？

So then so what can we do?

我的意思是，我们如何才能拥有这些本来是为了帮助我们的工具？

I mean, how can we have these tools which are there to help us?

我的意思是，它们的存在就是为了这个目的。

I mean, that's what they're there for.

对吧？

Right?