洗澡，放松，吃饭，循环

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

您正在收听圆桌论坛。

You're listening to Roundtable.

今天我是史蒂夫，和丁恒、菲菲一起。

I'm Steve today with Dingheng and Fei Fei.

接下来是。

Coming up.

有时候我们的故事会自然地联系在一起，有时候则不会。

Sometimes our stories link together naturally and sometimes they do not.

当它们没有联系时，我们的任务就是找到那条隐藏的线索。

And when they do not, it's our job to find that hidden thread.

这正是完整循环所要表达的，而且它正在路上。

That's exactly what the full circle is about and it's on the way.

之后，传统的澡堂消失了。

After that, the classic bathhouse is gone.

取而代之的是一个24小时全天候的综合综合体，不仅仅用于洗澡。

In its place, a twenty four hour mega complex that isn't just for bathing.

这些地方让你可以在安静的隔间里工作、享用高档餐饮、看电影， essentially 在不入住酒店的情况下度过一整天。

These places are where you go to work in a quiet pod or eat a high end meal or watch movie and essentially live for a day without ever checking into a hotel.

它们彻底颠覆了人们对放松空间的定义，捕捉到了现代生活迫切渴望的高效一站式逃离体验。

They've shattered the idea of what a relaxation space can be capturing something modern life desperately craves, efficient all in one escape.

我们的播客听众可以在Apple播客上搜索‘Roundtable China’找到我们，别忘了我们也非常期待听到你们的声音。

Our podcast listeners can find us at roundtable China on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget that we love hearing your voice too.

所以，请把你们的语音留言发送给我们。

So send your voice notes our way.

以下是具体方法。

Here's how you do it.

Roundtable播客，qq.com。

Roundtable podcast at qq.com.

再次提醒，Roundtable 播客地址是 qq.com。

Once again, roundtable podcast at qq.com.

现在。

And now.

三颗星。

Three stars.

一位克内希特派。

One Knechtian.

这真是一个完整的循环。

This is the full circle.

是时候迎来这个完整的循环了。

It is time for the full circle.

在这一环节中，我们回顾了本周我们过往节目中三个故事，并试图找出。

And in this segment, we look back at three stories from our previous episodes of round table this week, and we try to draw.

我们确实找出了它们之间一个可能令人惊讶的联系，为了增加趣味性并使其成为一个真正的谜题，我们故意挑选了三个表面上毫无关联的故事。

We do draw a single perhaps surprising connection between them, and to make it fun and to make it a genuine puzzle, we on purpose, we deliberately pick three stories that seemingly have nothing to do with one another.

这正是重点，今年这周由Fei Fei负责。

That's kind of the point, And Fei Fei's on it this week.

你选了哪些故事？

What stories did you choose?

是的，Steve。

Yes, Steve.

首先，周一我们谈到了老年玩家。

So first of all, from Monday, we talked about elderly gamers.

在中国，六十多岁和七十多岁的人正在组建真正的电子竞技队伍。

Now in China, people in their sixties and seventies are forming real esports teams.

他们认真训练。

They're training seriously.

他们参加比赛，将游戏变成了一种有目标的全新养老方式。

They're entering competitions, and they're turning gaming into a new way of aging with purpose.

对。

Yeah.

这让我们意识到一个有趣的转变：我们通常认为玩家都是二十多岁、青少年，也许三十多岁，但绝对不可能是六十多岁或七十多岁的人。

This was a a nice kind of revelation that we think of gamers as people in their twenties, teenagers, maybe thirties, maybe, but definitely not in their sixties or seventies.

这确实如此。

That is for sure.

但我们发现，这种刻板印象正在被打破。

But we learned that that stereotype was being broken.

而且，游戏不仅成为他们的收入来源，也成为社交联系和成就感的来源，他们彼此紧密联系。

And also gaming is becoming their not only source of income, but a source of social connections, achievements, and they are bounding with each other.

不仅在他们自己的群体内建立联系，还跨越代际，与年轻人也建立了联系。

Not only bounding within their own groups, but bounding with across generations with the young people as well.

是的。

Yeah.

对，没错。

And Yeah.

他们甚至还能赢过年轻人。

They're beating the young people too.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yes.

丁洪，你是玩家吗？

Ding Hung, are you a gamer?

不是。

No.

不太算。

Not really.

但对我来说，这至少是令人耳目一新的。

But to me, it's really eye opening to say the least.

是的。

Yeah.

真的很有趣，想到一些老年人对电子竞技如此热衷，甚至成为专家这一点。

It's really, you know, fascinating to think about this very fact that some elderly people becoming so enthusiastic and really becoming a kind of an expert at playing esports.

我的体会是，如果你的人生哲学是追求新体验和新可能性，那真是太棒了。

My takeaway is that it's fantastic if your life philosophy is about seeking new experiences and seeking new possibilities.

好吧，如果你还不是玩家，根据我们从这个故事中学到的，你显然还有很多年的时间。

Well, if you're not a gamer yet, you've got plenty of years left, apparently, from what we learned from that story.

你的下一个呢，Fei Fei？

What's your next one, Fei Fei?

下一个来自周三。

Next is from Wednesday.

我们谈到了一种极具创新性的医疗交付方式。

We talked about a highly innovative way to deliver medical care.

是的。

Yeah.

首先，上海方面批准了复旦大学附属眼耳鼻喉科医院开展空中医院试点项目。

So first of all, the approval comes from Shanghai that recently the Municipal Health Commission officially issued a pilot lessons to eye and ENT, which is ear, nose, and throat hospital of Fudan University to operate an airplane hospital.

运送的是C909飞机。

Bringing the it was the C nine zero nine.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

那就是那架飞机。

That was the airplane.

他们在这架飞机内部建了一个完整的手术室。

They built an entire operating room within the plane itself.

这并不是在两万五千英尺的高空飞行并进行手术，这原本是我以为的情况。

And it's not about flying 25,000 feet in the air and performing surgeries, which is what I thought was happening originally.

而是飞到那些医疗资源匮乏的偏远地区，将这些医疗服务和机会带给当地居民。

It's about flying to the location, the remote areas where the hospitals there may not have those services available, bringing those services, those opportunities to the citizens of that region.

是的。

Yeah.

它们配备了大量先进设备，包括五G远程医疗系统。

They they they're equipped with a lot of advanced equipment, including a five g telemedicine.

因此，它还允许该地的患者与例如上海的医生进行在线会诊，这真的非常棒。

So it also allows, like, online consultations for patients in that location with, for example, a doctor in Shanghai, which is really, really cool.

并在医疗资源获取方面为人们实现了更公平的条件。

And sort of leveling the field for people when it comes to the access to medical care.

这可能是这一切最重要的核心所在。

Which is maybe the most important point that that this is all all about.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，如果你考虑一下中国2026到2030年的下一个五年计划，我认为一个重点是努力提高农村和偏远地区优质公共服务的可及性与可用性，包括医疗服务。

So I guess if you think about, say, China's next five year plan for 2026 to 2030, I think really a focal point is to working hard to increase the accessibility and availability of quality public services, including medical services in, in rural areas, in remote areas.

现在我们有了这种创新的空中认证医院，我认为它为这方面的努力提供了全新的途径。

Now that we have this innovative licensed air airborne hospital, I think it is really providing a new channel for the work in that regard.

我们正越来越接近目标。

We are getting much closer.

那当然。

That's for sure.

你最后的那个故事也是周三的吗？

And your final story was also from Wednesday?

是的。

Yes.

没错。

It is.

我们聊了那些味道平淡的番茄。

We talked about bland tomatoes.

当我们身处2026年时，中国正引领生物技术革命，深入改造番茄的DNA，恢复其本真的风味，而这不仅仅局限于番茄。

As we sit here in 2026, China is leading a biotech charge to hack into tomato's DNA and restore its soul, and it's not only with tomatoes.

丁洪，你对如今番茄的味道满意吗？

Ding Hung, are you happy with the flavor of tomatoes these days?

满意还是不满意？

Yes or no?

不。

No.

不。

No.

坦白说，我真的不太喜欢番茄，正是因为现代番茄缺乏风味。

Frankly speaking, I am not really a fan of tomatoes precisely because of this lack of flavor in modern tomatoes.

我觉得，吃没有味道的番茄时，缺乏一种良好的体验和意义。

I feel like there is a lack of experience, good experience, and a meaning when eating tomatoes without flavors.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们了解过这一点。

We learned about it.

科学家已经破解了番茄的基因密码。

Scientists have hacked the tomato code.

因此，那些美味又耐储存的番茄很快就会出现在我们的超市里，希望如此。

So those tasty yet durable tomatoes are coming to our supermarkets, hopefully, pretty soon.

是的

Yeah.

所以，我们小时候记忆中那种多汁、甜美、咬一口在嘴里爆开的新鲜番茄味道，很快就会出现在超市货架上了，希望如此。

So that the the the grandma taste that we learn, that juicy, sweet in your mouth exploded in your mouth of eating a very fresh tomato is coming on the shelf very soon, hopefully.

哦，这要感谢中国科学家们的努力和付出。

Oh, so thanks to the Chinese scientists' endeavors and efforts.

也许在不久的将来，我会考虑在日常食谱中多加入一些番茄。

Probably in the near future, I will consider including more tomatoes in my daily recipes.

是的

Yes.

没错

Exactly.

再给他们一次机会。

Give them another shot.

好的

Alright.

那么我们这里有什么呢？

So what do we have here?

我们看到老年人在玩游戏，不只是玩，他们在这类电子竞技中非常投入和竞争激烈。

We have seniors who are playing games, not just playing games, they're being very competitive at these esports.

我们现在有配备了紧急医疗室的飞机，将顶级医疗护理和手术带到以往无法到达的地方，而目前我们吃到的番茄味道仍不尽如人意。

We have airplanes now equipped with emergency rooms of sorts, bringing top medical care and surgeries to places that they couldn't bring them before, and we have disappointing tasting tomatoes for now.

是的。

Yeah.

好。

Alright.

这就是三个故事。

Those are the three stories.

它们表面上似乎没有任何关联，但Fei Fei正在跟进。

Now they don't seem to have any connection with each other, but Fei Fei's on the job.

让我们回到完整循环。

Let's get to the full circle.

是的。

Yes.

就像史蒂夫说的，乍一看，这三个故事似乎毫无关联。

Like Steve said, at the first glance, these three stories seem to have nothing in common.

但其实，深入看看。

But actually, look deeper.

它们都在问同一个问题。

They are all asking the same question.

如果我们所感知的限制并不真实呢？

What if our perceived limits aren't real?

例如，在游戏方面，社会赋予我们的心理限制告诉我们，竞技游戏只属于年轻人，需要年轻时的专注和经验；而老年人在电子竞技中占据主导地位，这不仅意味着胜利，更证明了当你摆脱这些自我设限的信念时，就会发现一个全新的竞争与社群领域，这是潜力对偏见的胜利。

For example, when it comes to gaming, the mental limitation placed on us by society tell us competitive gaming is for the young that focus and skill have experience in date and The seniors dominating in esports, so not just winning, they are proving that when you remove these self limiting beliefs, you discover an entirely new arena for competition and community, and this is the triumph of potential over prejudice.

其次，医疗保健。

And then second, health care.

在这里，挑战是克服生理上的限制。

Here, the struggle is against a physical limitation.

我们一直认为顶级医疗资源只集中在大城市。

We've accepted that top tier medicine is anchored to major cities.

但当医生和工程师突破医院建筑的物理限制，将手术室直接带到偏远城镇时，他们所传递的不仅仅是医疗服务。

But when doctors and engineers remove the physical limits of the hospital building and bring the surgical suite directly to distant towns, they're not just delivering care.

他们正在重新定义希望与康复的地理版图。

They're rewriting the entire geography of hope and healing.

这就是让不可能变得可移动的力量。

This is the power of making the impossible portable.

第三，我们的食物。

And third, our food.

几十年来，科学家和农民认为他们面临一个固定的权衡——一种生物限制。

For decades, scientists and farmers thought they faced a fixed trade off, a biological limitation.

你只能选择风味，或者选择一种形状良好、能养活数百万人的番茄。

You could have flavor or you could have a tomato that shapes well and feeds millions.

但通过拒绝接受这种二元选择，回归基因蓝图，他们如今重新获得了两者，证明了风味与韧性完全可以共生在同一根藤蔓上。

But by refusing to accept that binary choice, by going back to the genetic blueprint, they are now reclaiming both, proving that richness and resilience can, in fact, grow on the same vein.

这生长在同一根藤上。

This grow on the same vine.

这就是挑战虚假两难选择的味道。

This is the taste of challenging a false dilemma.

所以，本周的圆满闭环不仅仅关乎令人惊讶的消息。

So this week's full circle isn't just about surprising news.

它是一份进步的蓝图。

It's a blueprint for progress.

年龄、距离或基因权衡在哪里？

Where is age, distance, or a genetic trade off?

最令人兴奋的突破都始于同样的方式：面对所谓的固定限制，决定它不是一堵墙，而是一扇等待被打开的门。

The most exciting breakthroughs begin the same way by looking at a so called fixed limit and deciding it's not a wall, but a door waiting to be opened.

真正的故事在于另一侧发生的一切——重新想象我们的极限。

The real story is what happens on the other side to reimagine our limits.

说得真好。

Well put together.

所以重新想象我们的极限。

So reimagining our limits.

对于老年人来说，他们的极限已经不存在了。

So for the elderly, their limit no.

你不能玩电子竞技。

You can't play esports.

你的极限已经过去了。

Your limit has already passed.

你的年龄极限已经过去了。

Your age limit has already passed.

对于医生们，是的。

For the doctors, yeah.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我们因为地理限制无法将手术送到你们那里。

We we can't get the surgeries to you because of the geographical limitations.

我们的医院在这里，而你们却在那么远的地方。

Our hospital is here and you are way over there.

至于西红柿，抱歉，如果你们想在超市买到状态良好的西红柿，它们就得是这个味道。

And for the tomatoes, sorry, if you want them in the supermarket in good condition, this is how they're gonna taste.

我们有局限性。

We have limitations.

但在所有这三种情况下，是的，他们突破了这些限制。

But in all three scenarios, yeah, they pushed the limitations there.

再往前一点。

A little bit further.

所以，这正是我为什么试图把限制描述为一扇门，而不是一堵墙的原因。

And so this is really the reason why I I try to phrase the limit not as a wall, but as a door.

这并不是说‘是的’。

It's not about Yeah.

我喜欢这个说法。

I like that.

告诉你停止。

Telling you to stop.

好的。

Okay.

这里就是你需要停止的地方。

This is the place you need to stop.

但也许现在是时候稍作停顿，问一个问题：我能打开那扇门吗？

But maybe this is the time that you can pause a little bit and ask the question, can I open that door?

后面是什么

What's behind

呢？

that?

这扇门是锁着的吗？

Is this door locked?

它锁了，还是没锁？

Did it or or is it not?

是的。

Yeah.

我也在想这个问题，我非常喜欢这个观点：当我们达到自己的极限时，也许那只是需要被打开的一扇门。

I was I was thinking about this too, and I love that concept of, you know, when we reach our own limits, maybe that's just a door that needs to be opened.

然后你说了什么？

And then what did you say?

答案在另一边。

The answer is on the other side.

是的。

Yeah.

当我思考这一点时，我在想整个社会，整个人类。

And and when I was thinking about that, I was thinking about society as a whole, like human beings as a whole.

我突然意识到，当我们希望作为社会或物种在科技、科学或工业方面取得进步时，我们非常擅长打开那些门，走进去，看看另一边是什么。

And it struck me that when we when we want to progress as a as a society or as a species for like tech or science or industry, then we're very very good at opening those doors and walking through and seeing what's on the other side.

这就是为什么我们现在能够进入外太空并进行太空探索的原因。

That's why we can go to outer space and have a space exploration these days, for example.

但当涉及到这一点时，我正是在思考这个。

But what about when it comes this is what I was thinking.

那当我们面对自己的生活、自己的个人道路时呢？

What about when it comes to our own lives, our own, like, personal paths?

我们是否仍然试图突破极限或边界，尤其是在将自己与整个社会作比较时？

Do we still try to push the limits or push the boundaries, especially when we compare ourselves to society as a whole.

我认为我们并不总是这样做。

I think we don't necessarily do that very often.

我不确定。

I don't know.

你对这个问题怎么看？

What do you think about that?

是的。

Yeah.

我部分同意，因为史蒂夫，你提出的这种现象，我认为有时是因为人们过于专注于外部使命或他们的社会责任、社会角色、家庭角色。

I partially agree because I this phenomenon that you raised, Steve, I think it is sometimes because people are quite preoccupied with external missions or their social responsibilities, their societal role, their family role.

这意味着他们用来探索自我、内在部分的时间和空间非常有限。

So which means the time and space is quite limited, often limited for them to explore themselves, the inners the the inner parts of themselves.

时间的限制。

The limits of time.

嗯。

So Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

另一个方面是，不管你喜不喜欢，人们通常都是利己的。

And another aspect is probably whether you like it or not, people, individuals are often, you know, self interested.

因此，我们愿意挑战外部的限制，因为从社会层面、政策层面等这样做可能为我们带来长期利益。

So, we are willing to challenge external limits because doing so might as a society, doing so policy wise, etcetera, might bring us long term benefits.

但当涉及个人事务时，挑战自己的界限有时意味着一种新的生活方式、新的做事方式，而我们并不确定新方式就一定是更好的方式。

But when it comes to individual matters, challenging our own limits sometimes means a new way of life, a new way of doing things, and we are not so sure that a new way is necessarily the better way.

对于那些已有稳定事业、财富和家庭的人来说，尤其如此，尝试新事物可能意味着放弃现有的所有东西。

This is especially true for people with established a career, established wealth, established family, trying something new might mean giving up your existing belongings.

对。

Right.

因为改变令人害怕。

Because change is scary.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我同意。

So I agree.

需要着眼于这种挑战这些限制的尝试的最终目标。

Need to look at the end game of this making the trial to challenge these limits.

当我们挑战外部世界界限时，比如打破新世界纪录、进入外太空。

When we're challenging the limits of the outside world, you know, reaching a new world record, going to outer space.

这种成就的最终目标是权力、名声和金钱。

The end game is what's come after of that achievement is power, is fame, is money.

所以这就是为什么总有人想要接受这种挑战。

So that's why there are people always want to do this challenge.

但当涉及到挑战个人生活时，比如婚姻、工作，尤其是个人生活中的婚姻、关系或生活方式时。

But when it comes to challenging your personal life, for example, in marriage, in job, especially in personal life, in marriage or relationships or the the your lifestyle.

结果可能并不那么积极。

The end the results may not be that positive.

嗯。

Mhmm.

即使你试图在生活方式和人际关系中做出一些小改变，也可能带来巨大的压力和负担，甚至可能让人在背后议论你，这种社会压力。

That even though you you try try to make a small change in your lifestyle and your relationships, that can mean a lot of pressure and burdens and also maybe, you know, people just discussing you behind your back and that kind of social pressure.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而这只是

And that just

社会的限制。

Social limitations.

是的。

Yes.

所以，与在技术或体育上取得突破相比，这似乎是一个困难得多的决定。

So that seems like a much more difficult decision to make compared to, you know, making a breakthrough technologically or in sports.

你知道，这完全是不同的。

You know, it's just different

没人会去挑战这个。

Nobody's gonna challenge no.

没人会挑战你试图做的不同事情，你是这个意思吗？

Nobody's going to challenge what you're trying to do differently, you mean?

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是。

I mean

大家都看法一致？

Everybody's on the same page?

如果你去外太空，人们会称赞你是

If if you go to outer space, people will praise you as one of

最

the

世界上最勇敢的宇航员之一。

bravest astronauts in the world.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

如果你对全世界说，你知道吗？

If you are saying to the world, you know what?

我要拥有自己的婚姻模式。

I'm going to have my own marriage pattern.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

人们会质疑你。

People will question you.

你的是

What's your

什么问题？

problem?

让他们去评判吧。

Be They judgmental.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以，如果你偏离了人们期待的轨道，人们就会觉得你很怪异。

So if you step outside the lines of what's expected, people think you're weird.

我的情况其实也差不多。

I mean, I kind of did that myself.

我23岁的时候搬到了亚洲，你知道加拿大和中国之间的文化其实并不一样。

I moved to Asia when I was 23 years old, and you know this is where cultures are the same between Canada and China.

社会期望你完成高中学业，然后上大学或接受某种形式的

Society expects you to finish high school, go to university or some form of

高等教育。

Higher education.

完成学业，找份工作，建立关系，然后继续你的职业生涯，直到退休，培养个爱好，然后死去。

Finish that, get a job, get a relationship, and continue on with your career until you retire, get a hobby, and die.

这就是从开始到结束的人生模式，你基本上一辈子都待在同一个地方。

And that's the concept of life from the beginning to the end, and you kind of live in the same spot.

我选择离开，并不是因为对加拿大人的生活方式感到非常失望或类似的原因。

And I chose to move away not because I was very disheartened with how Canadians live or anything like that.

我来告诉你我为什么搬走。

I'll tell you why I moved.

有一天，当时我还在一家啤酒公司工作，办公室里有个地球仪，我转了一下地球仪，随意停在了我家乡的新斯科舍省，然后我意识到新斯科舍省在世界上是多么渺小，我想：我不能只是出生在这里、长大在这里、生活在这里，最后也在这里结束我的一生。

One day, this is when I was working for a beer company, there was a globe in the office and I spun the globe and I just kinda stopped it on Nova Scotia where I'm from, and I looked at how tiny Nova Scotia is in the world, and I thought, I can't be just born here, grow up here, live here, and end my existence all in the same location.

我需要走出去，做点别的事，看看世界的其他地方。

I need to go and do something else and see other parts of the world.

所以这跟加拿大一点关系都没有。

So it had nothing nothing to do with Canada.

这仅仅跟我对自己人生的期望有关。

It just had something to do with what I wanted for myself.

当然，人们看着我，问我：‘你要去哪？’

And definitely, people looked at me and said to me, like, you're going you're going where?

为什么？

Why?

你打算做什么？

What are you doing?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

他们以为我一年后就会回家，我当初也这么想，但如今我们在这里。

And they thought I would be home a year later, and that's what I thought too, but here we are.

你知道的吧？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

你永远无法预料。

You never know.

你永远无法预料。

You never know.

你永远无法预料，但我认为突破极限是有意义的。

You never But I think there's something to be said for pushing the limits.

对吧？

Right?

这些都是突破限制后可能带来的三件了不起的事。

And those are three great examples of great things that can come from pushing limitations.

费菲今天很好地把各点联系起来了。

Fei Fei, did a nice job connecting the dots today.

你还有什么最后的想法吗？

Any final thoughts from you?

这是我的最后想法。

Here is my final thoughts.

限制一直存在，直到有人重新想象了可能性，而这些限制常常悄然融入我们的日常。

Limits exist until someone reimagined what's possible, and often those limits quietly settle into our routines.

它们塑造了我们对自己、对他人以及对周围世界的期待。

They shape what we expect of ourselves, of others, and of the world around us.

我们学会接受它们，几乎没有反抗。

We learn to accept them without much resistance.

而年龄意味着放慢脚步。

And the age means slowing down.

那种精致的照料必须远离我们。

That sophisticated care has to be far away.

味觉的丧失、品质的下降、联系的疏远，这些都只是随之而来的代价。

And there's some losses of the taste, of the quality, of the connection are simply the cost of it.

所以我们妥协了，因为觉得这不过是付出一点小代价。

So we compromise, because it feels like a small price to pay.

但如果我们停下来认真想想，也许根本不需要付出任何代价。

But if we pause and really think about it, maybe there shouldn't be a price to pay at all.

有时候，改变并不需要喧嚣或激进，只需一个小调整、一个基因的微小变异、对现有飞机的温和重新设计，或者愿意尝试一款你从未玩过的游戏。

Sometimes change doesn't need to be loud or radical, just a small shift, a tiny twist in a gene, a modest redesign of an existing airplane, a willingness to try a game you've never played before.

就在那一刻，限制并没有消失。

And in that moment, the limit doesn't disappear.

它变得柔和了。

It softens.

它从一条规则转变成一个问题。

It turns from a rule into a question.

而正是在这种悄然无声中，改变开始了。

And quietly, that is how change begins.

你正在收听《圆桌论坛》，接下来是：这可不是你奶奶时代的澡堂。

You're listening to Roundtable, and coming up next, this ain't your grandma's bathhouse.

寻找激情？

Looking for passion?

想听听激烈的辩论吗？

How about fiery debate?

想从不同视角了解中国时事吗？

Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives?

那就收听《Roundtable》，在这里，东西方交汇，理解是目标。

Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.

你正在收听《Roundtable》。

You're listening to Roundtable.

今天我是Steve，和Dingheng、Fei Fei一起。

I'm Steve today with Dingheng and Fei Fei.

过去，浴场只是用来快速泡澡和搓洗的功能性场所，但如今的现代浴场，天啊，早已今非昔比。

In the past, bath centers were merely functional spaces for a quick soak and a quick scrub, But today's modern versions, OMG, they are not the same as they used to be.

它们已演变为24小时运作的综合性大型综合体，成为一站式生活方式中心。

They've evolved into sophisticated twenty four hour mega complexes that function as all in one lifestyle hubs.

与传统澡堂不同，这些新场所融合了高端餐饮、电影院和游戏舱。

Unlike the traditional bath houses, these new places integrate high end dining, movie theaters, gaming capsules.

我看到一家还设有尖叫室。

I saw one that had a scream room.

我马上告诉你那是什么。

I'll tell you what that is in just a sec.

但它们也设有一些安静的办公区域。

But they've also got some quiet office areas.

它为现代消费者创造了一种托儿所式的度假体验。

It's creating a daycare style vacation for the modern consumer.

它确实打破了传统的时空界限，而且我认为它们很好地捕捉到了当今经济中标准化酒店常常缺乏的情感价值和放松层面——当然这也取决于你住在哪里。

It does indeed break the traditional boundaries of space and time, and they've captured very well, I think, the emotional value and the relaxation side of things in today's economy that standardized hotels can often lack depending, of course, on where you're staying.

在我们讨论新型洗浴中心之前，先说说中国传统的澡堂是什么样的。

What does the traditional before we get to the new ones, tell us about in China the traditional bath houses, what those look like.

嗯，它们过去主要专注于洗浴服务，而且价格也很便宜。

Well, they are or they were primarily dedicated to mainly bath services, and they are cheap too.

他们的流程基本上遵循一种不成文的步骤：浸泡、蒸桑拿、去角质、冲洗。

Their processes basically followed a kind of unwritten script, soak, steam, scrub, rinse.

然后它们还具有一些社交功能。

And then they have certain, social functions.

它们可以充当类似社区客厅的角色，人们在泡澡时畅聊家庭、工作和生意等各种话题。

They can be doubled as a kind of community living room, like guys chatted about everything from family to their work, to their businesses while soaking.

女性也会泡澡。

Women soaked.

她们会做面膜，交换邻里或单位里的八卦等信息。

They did face masks and swapped certain neighborhoods or work units, gossip, etcetera, etcetera.

因此，这是一种以本地社区为中心的延续性文化。

So it's a very local community centered spanning culture.

一个可以放松、和朋友在浴缸里聊天的地方，聊聊上周的趣事之类的事情，是这样吗？

A place to hang out, a place to chat while you're in the tub with your friends, while you're gossiping with each other on the previous week's happenings or things like that?

是的。

Yeah.

特别是在北方，这些澡堂或社区中心，我想说，没错。

In northern part, in particular, these bathhouses or the sun the community center, I would say Right.

某种程度上。

Some level.

是的。

Yep.

我记得小时候听到的一些最精彩的八卦，就发生在我母亲和她的朋友们在澡堂里洗澡、搓背的时候。

That I remember some of the best gossip that I ever heard as a child happening in these bath houses between my mother with her friends and as they bathe, scrub.

我们这些孩子也在浴池里玩耍，而她们则聊着隔壁的八卦、她们工作单位里的事，一切都非常放松。

And we were playing as well in in the tub with other children, and they are talking about the gossip next door, what's happening in their workplace, you know, just just a very relaxing experience.

那是老式的澡堂。

That's the old bathhouse.

现在我们有了新的，两者对比几乎认不出来了。

Now we bring in the new, and it's almost unrecognizable when you compare the two.

没错。

Exactly.

首先，说到装饰，内部环境截然不同。

First of all, when it comes to the decoration, the interior is like drastically different.

过去，只是简单的瓷砖墙壁和地板，有淋浴头、浴缸，还有一张供你搓澡的床。

In the past, it's just simply, you know, tiled walls and floors and there is a showerheads, there is a tub, and there is a bed for you to get scrubbing.

但现在，它看起来像是一个拥有众多服务的大型商业综合体。

But now it looks like a big commercial complex with a lot of services.

它们规模宏大。

They are on a scale.

它们非常精致。

They are polished.

它们有高高的天花板、极具戏剧性的灯光、各种风格的室内设计，甚至还有非常奢华的酒店大堂式设计。

They have high ceilings, drastic dramatic lighting, different styles of interior designs, and even they have this very luxurious hotel lobby design.

这些地方，我的意思是，当我们用‘奢华’来形容这些地方时，请相信我们，我真的很震惊，因为我在脑海中根本没有这样的画面。

And These places these plates, I I mean, when when we use the word luxury to describe these places, please believe us, I was shocked because I didn't have the right picture in my mind.

这些地方看起来就像五星级或六星级酒店里的高端日间水疗中心。

These places look like high end day spas that you'd find at a five or six star hotel.

它们太美了。

They are gorgeous.

泳池也很美。

The pools are gorgeous.

泳池旁还配有小型凉亭。

They have little mini gazebos attached to the pool.

你刚从泳池出来，就能直接走进自己那片柔软舒适的奢华小天地放松。

You just step out of the pool right into your little luxury pillowy spot to relax.

我的意思是，这些设施简直就像最顶级酒店才有的配置。

I mean, this is like this is stuff you'd find at the nicest of hotels.

离开水疗区后，你会看到一个水果自助餐或高档自助餐，这正是你在酒店里期待的。

Then you leave the spa area, and you go out and there's like a fruit buffet or a high end buffet that you'd expect to find at a hotel.

他们还设有游戏室，配备了PlayStation。

They've got the game rooms for they've got PlayStations.

我看过的一个地方，电视排成一排，全都连着PlayStation，还有舒适的沙发椅。

The one I watched had TVs lined up with all PlayStations there and nice comfy chairs.

我提到的尖叫室，我想它叫作宣泄室。

The screaming room I mentioned, I think it was called the venting room.

他们有那种，叫什么来着，拳击馆里常见的踢袋。

They have, what do you call them, kick bags that you'd find in a boxing gym.

你进去之后，那是一个隔音室。

You go in there, it's a soundproof room.

他们给你拳击手套，然后你就尽情打那个袋子、大喊大叫，别人都听不到你。

They give you boxing gloves, and then you just beat that bag and scream and shout, and nobody else can hear you.

出了一身汗之后，你就回到水疗区，再放松一下。

And after sweat, you just go back to the spa, relax a little bit more.

洗个澡。

Take a shower.

然后当你准备好了，他们有私密的睡眠舱，你可以吃点零食，整个24小时都可以待在那里。

And then when you're ready, they've got the sleeping pods that are private and you can get some snacks and it's just you can spend a whole twenty four hours there.

所以与其说是付钱洗澡，我觉得你实际上是在购买时间。

So instead of paying just to take a shower or bathing, I think you are actually buying time.

对吧？

Right?

一张票，几百元人民币左右，就可以涵盖十二小时甚至更长时间。

One ticket, a few 100 yuan, etcetera, covers twelve hours or even longer.

所以如果你想要在那里过夜，只需再多付一点额外费用就够了。

So for and then if you want to stay there overnight, just a small amount of extra money, extra fee will suffice.

因此，我认为对许多年轻人、年轻消费者来说，这比订酒店便宜多了，也更有趣。

So I guess for many young people, young young consumers, that really makes it cheaper and more fun than booking a hotel.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

在某种程度上，这些豪华浴场的价格从两三百元到五百元不等，再加上一些额外服务的费用，比如过夜、不同游戏室等等。

On some level, well, when it comes to this luxurious bathhouses, their prices are, like, from either 200 or 300 yuan to 500 yuan plus some of the extra charges when it comes to different services, like overnight stay stay or different game rooms and so on and so forth.

但当你把它和你住酒店可能花的几百美元相比时，它就便宜多了，因为酒店还不具备这些额外服务。

But yet when you compare it to the hundreds of dollars that you might spend if you go to a hotel that doesn't have all of those extra services, then it's much, much cheaper.