策展、真实性与男性形象

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这是

This

圆桌论坛。

is Roundtable.

您正在收听圆桌论坛。

You're tuned in to Roundtable.

今天我和玉顺、玉山一起主持，我是史蒂夫·哈瑟利。

I'm Steve Hatherley today with Yushun and Yushan.

接下来，当一种氛围因错误的原因走红时，会发生什么？

Coming up, what happens when a vibe goes viral for all the wrong reasons?

我们将揭开表演型男性的面纱，从精心摆拍的照片到它开始引发的沉默抵制。

We'll pull back the curtain on the performative male from the carefully staged photo to the quiet backlash it's starting to receive.

这是一种新的自我表达方式，还是最古老的把戏？

Is this a new form of self expression or just the oldest trick in the book?

接下来，从鸡蛋到榴莲。

After that, from eggs to durian.

这个故事讲述了超市心理学如何从实用的日用品演变为带刺又臭名昭著的网络爆款。

The story story of how supermarket psychology went from practical staples to spiky stinky virality.

一个更看重名气而非优惠券的一代人，对超市的未来意味着什么？

What does a generation that craves clout over coupons mean for the future of our supermarkets?

我们的播客听众，也就是你们，可以在苹果播客上搜索《Roundtable China》收听我们。

Our podcast listeners, that you, can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts.

别忘了，我们也非常期待听到你们的声音。

And don't forget, we love to hear your voice as well.

请通过语音消息向我们分享你们对我们节目中任何话题的想法。

So send your voice notes our way with any of the thoughts that you might have on any of the things that we discuss here on the show.

操作方法如下。

Here's how you do it.

发送至 Roundtable podcast at qq.com。

Roundtable podcast at qq.com.

再次提醒，Roundtable 播客邮箱是 qq.com。

Once again, roundtable podcast at qq.com.

现在，想象一下。

And now, picture this.

你正在刷动态，突然停下来看到一张感觉异常熟悉的照片。

You're scrolling through your feed and you stop on a photo that feels strangely familiar.

一个男人独自坐在咖啡馆的桌子旁。

A man sits alone at a cafe table.

一台复古胶片相机被摆放得恰到好处。

There's a vintage film camera placed just so.

旁边是一本翻旧了的书。

And next to that, a well worn book.

一本富有哲理的书。

Something philosophical.

一本严肃的书。

Something serious.

光线柔和。

The lighting is soft.

构图显得毫不费力。

The framing feels effortless.

而配文简单地写着：周日沉思。

And the caption reads simply Sunday reflections.

乍一看，这张图片给人一种平静而深思的感觉，甚至有些沉稳。

At first glance, the image feels calm and thoughtful, maybe even grounded.

它暗示着品味或内省，或许还有道德意识，却从未直接点明这些。

It suggests taste or introspection, maybe even moral awareness without ever stating any of that directly.

我刚才向你们描述的，正是互联网所谓的‘表演型男性’。

Well, what I've just described to you is what the Internet calls the performative male.

他并非某种恶棍或刻板印象，而是一种可辨识的类型。

Not a villain per se or a caricature, but a recognizable type.

一种主要通过精心布置的信号来传达身份、价值观和深度的人。

Someone who communicates identity, values, and depth primarily through carefully staged signals.

这种图像并不是新事物，多年来一直有类似版本在传播，但最近它开始吸引更多关注、更多批评，以及更多人讨论它。

Now this kind of image isn't new, versions of it have been circulating for years, but recently it started to attract more attention, more critique and a lot more people talking about it.

人们开始停顿下来，不仅盯着这张照片，更关注它所引发的那种感觉。

People have begun to pause, not just on the photo, but the feeling that it produces.

这是真实的，还是只是精心策划的？

Is this real or is this just curated?

这正是真诚与表演之间的张力，也是我们对话的起点。

And that's the tension between sincerity and performance, and it's kind of where our conversation begins.

所以，这个‘表演型男性’——在我们讨论他究竟是什么之前，或者更准确地说，他究竟是谁——这种现象发生在哪儿？

So the performative male, before we talk about what that actually is, or I should say who he actually is, where is this happening?

我猜这一定发生在各种互联网空间里。

I'm assuming it has to be on all kinds of internet spaces.

是的。

Yeah.

基本上，这种现象在高度线上化、媒体饱和的空间中最为显著，尤其是在城市文化中心。

For basically, this phenomenon is most pronounced in highly online media saturated spaces, especially in urban cultural centers.

这种现象最初在西方广为人知，但现在已经不再仅限于那里。

It first became widely recognizable in West context, but it's no longer just confined there.

这是一种国际性的现象，我们随处可见。

It's kind of an international phenomenon that we can see a lot.

在中国也是如此，对吧？我们稍后会谈到。

Here in China a bit too, right, which we'll get to in a little while.

是的。

Yeah.

无论在哪里，只要身份被公开展示、解读或获得回报，这些动态就会出现。

So wherever identity is publicly displayed or interpreted or rewarded, these dynamics tend to appear.

一些社交媒体平台，比如Instagram、TikTok或X，播客、通讯简报、Substack，只要你能找到某种表达方式，就可以做到这一点。

And some social media platforms like Instagram, TikTok, or X, podcast newsletters, Substack, wherever that you can find some of their, like, expression is the way that you can do this.

是的。

Yeah.

展示出来。

Showcase it.

我认为这些平台不仅仅是承载自我表达的地方。

I think these platforms, they don't just host self expression.

它们真正奖励的是你的持续性和一致性，让你以某种方式不断展示自己。

That's the part where they actually reward your consistency and coherence and keep on showcasing yourself in such a way.

久而久之，这会促使人们开始将内心生活转化为外界能清晰理解的东西。

And over time, this kind of encourages people to start to turn their inner lives into something that reads clearly from the outside.

所以他们看到的像是一种品牌。

So they see Like a brand.

通过。

Through.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，身份就从‘你是谁’变成了‘别人看你时你的样子’。

So the identity then changes from who you are to how you come across when other people view you.

人们说，这种表演型男性最常出现在创意工作者、文化从业者或与媒体相关的专业人士中。

They say that the performative male most pops up with creatives and cultural workers or media adjacent professionals.

哎呀，我们就是。

Oops, that's us.

是的。

Yeah.

政治上或智力上积极参与的男性，或者那些通过表现得深思熟虑、敏感且进步来获取社交或浪漫资本的人。

Politically or intellectually engaged men, or people who gain social or romantic capital by appearing thoughtful or sensitive and progressive.

我认为我刚才提到的那些事情中，最后一点最让人反感。

And I think of the things I just mentioned, the last one is kind of the the point that rubs people the wrong way.

当你作为一个男性，通过在网上发布展示自己并非真实面貌的形象来获取社交或浪漫资本时。

When you're trying to gain social capital or romantic capital as a man by posting images of yourself online that show you off as someone that you are not.

所以，所谓‘表演型’，我理解这些男性是在以一种通常不符合他们真实自我的方式装扮自己吗？

So by performative, I would assume that these male these men, they are dressing up in a way that usually is not like how they truly are?

嗯，你看，这里就变得复杂了，因为我觉得有必要先说明一点：表演型男性并不一定是在撒谎。

Well, see, okay, this is where this becomes tricky because it's important to say upfront, I think, that the performative male isn't necessarily lying.

问题的一部分在于我们并不清楚。

Part of the problem is that we don't know.

对。

Right.

很难分辨谁在装假。

It's hard to tell who's faking.

谁是真诚的，谁在装假，因为在很多情况下，展示出的兴趣、品味或价值观确实是真实的，但变化的是它们的排列方式、强调方式或传播方式。

Who's being authentic and and who's faking, because in a lot of cases, the interests or the tastes or the values on display are genuine, but what changes or what has changed is how they're arranged or how they're emphasized or how they're broadcast.

人们对此最大的不满之一就是这种道具式的身份。

And one of the main things people have a big problem with is this prop based identity.

当我们刚开始聊天时，我说想象一下，一个男人在网上发布的照片，他坐在咖啡馆里，光线恰到好处。

When we started this chat and I said imagine this, a picture of a man online sitting in a cafe, the lighting is just right.

桌上放着一本书，上面可能写着‘东方哲学’。

There's a book on the table and it might say Eastern philosophy

第二个

The second

十六世纪的，或者女权主义之类的。

of the sixteenth century or something, or women's rights.

嗯。

Mhmm.

某种让他看起来很前卫、很有深度的东西，对吧？

Something that makes him look like, oh, you're really progressive, or you're very deep, aren't you?

十六世纪的东方哲学。

Eastern philosophy from the sixteenth century.

哇。

Wow.

但根本没提到这本书。

But there's no mention of the book.

所以，道具式身份指的是，这本书是他自己的书，还是只是从某个架子上拿过来放在照片里，为了让自己看起来像那种人？

So the prop based identity means, is that book his book or is that just something from a shelf somewhere that he put in the picture to make himself look like he's that kind of person?

最后一点，这种现象也延伸到了时尚领域。

And final point here, this extends to fashion as well.

你知道，你可能会戴黑框眼镜，穿黑色高领毛衣，或者穿灯芯绒夹克之类的。

You know, you might have the horn rimmed black glasses with a black turtleneck or something or a corduroy jacket.

时尚方面，这个问题没有标准答案。

The fashion there's no answer to that.

这只是时尚品味，或者说是与情绪相匹配，让这个人看起来像个知识分子，或者他想营造的那种氛围。

It's just the fashion senses the or or matches the mood to make the guy look like an intellectual or whatever vibe he might be going for.

但问题是，我们并不是说拥有所有这些设备就是错的。

But the thing is that we're not saying if you have the all of these gadgets, it's wrong.

只是我们无法判断他们是造假、装模作样，还是出于其他原因使用这些东西。

It's just and we cannot identify they are faking it or pretending or just using this for what reason.

有些人可能真的喜欢这些东西，但正如你一开始说的，也许他们本身就带有这种形象，却从未直接表达过这些。

And some may even just they really like that, but the thing is that, as you said, in the beginning, maybe they have that kind of image without ever stating any of that directly.

嗯。

Yeah.

但手中的一切可能都是经过精心设计的。

But everything in hand maybe was sophisticatedly designed.

是的，精心设计的。

Yeah, designed.

是的。

Yeah.

这就是关键。

That's the point.

这就是表演型男性，这也是人们对此有意见的原因。

And that's the performative male, and that's why people have a problem with this.

现在，人们还有另一个不满的方面，那就是所谓的美德信号。

Now, there's one more aspect that people have a problem with, and that's something called virtue signaling.

美德信号是指你公开表达你的道德或政治信念，但你这样做是为了获得社会认可。

Virtue signaling is when you publicly express your moral or your perhaps political beliefs, but you're doing it, you're expressing your moral beliefs to gain social approval.

但人们不总是这样吗？

But don't people do that all the time?

美德信号就是，你这么做并不是为了促成有意义的改变，也不是为了开展有意义的在线讨论，对吧？

That's what virtue signaling is, is that you're doing it not to create meaningful change, not to create a meaningful online discussion or right?

是的。

Yeah.

这跟我有关。

It's about me.

这关乎你，也关乎炫耀，以便获得点赞和评论，比如‘哇，你真棒’。

It's about you and it's about showing off so that you can get the likes, you can get the comments that say, wow, good for you.

你支持这个事业。

You support this cause.

你真是个了不起的人。

What an amazing person you are.

这就叫道德表演。

That's called virtue signaling.

但从根本上说，不管你是否真正相信这一点，这仍然处于灰色地带。

But down inside in the core, if you are a true believer of that or not, it's still kind of in the gray area.

你只是把它当作一种服装或道具戴在身上。

You're just putting that on as if it's a costume or props.

你还记得那个‘凯伦’这个词什么时候开始流行起来的吗？

Do you remember when the Karen thing became For a

女士们？

ladies?

但‘凯伦’是那些特别挑剔的女士的绰号，对吧？

But that's a nickname for ladies who are particularly picky, right?

是的，就是那些在不该抱怨的地方抱怨的、自以为是的女性。

Yeah, like entitled women who complain in places that they shouldn't complain.

几年前这成了一个网络热词，持续了一段时间。

It became like an internet thing a few years ago, and it lasted for a while.

我记得读过一些故事，讲的是真名叫凯伦的女性，她们对此感到非常困扰。

And I remember reading stories about women whose name was actually Karen, and they were quite bothered by that.

确实如此，她们会的。

True, they will.

我现在有点想起这件事了，因为如果你是个对十六世纪东方哲学或复古相机感兴趣的男人

And I'm kind of reminded of that now because if you are a guy who happens to be into Eastern philosophy of the sixteenth century, or vintage cameras

或者托德·贝克。

Or Todd Beck.

或者来自上世纪七十年代末的酷炫黑胶唱片。

Or cool vinyl records from the late nineteen seventies.

那么，当你这些兴趣是发自内心的，却被人当成反派，这确实挺难的。

Well, then you're kind of being you're kind of being turned into a villain here when those are your genuine interests, so it's kinda hard.

但这件事中‘男性’这部分只是其中一个特定方面。

But the the the men part of this thing is just one specific aspect.

如果我们放宽视角，从更大的图景来看，这其实都是‘气场耕作’的一部分，也就是所谓的‘气场耕作’。

If we open it up, if we kind of look at it from a bigger picture, this is all part of aura farming, something called aura farming.

我刚刚才了解到这个词。

I just kind of learned this term.

显然，气场耕作是指通过反复的审美和行为选择，来培养一种平静、智慧、神秘、开悟的个人氛围，从而获得关注。

So apparently, aura farming is to gain traction to describe the internal cultivation of a personal vibe that's calm, intellectual, mysterious, enlightened through repeated aesthetic and behavioral choices.

这可能在社交媒体上非常流行，比如‘气场耕作入门’：穿得体面，然后在公共场合读书。

So that could be something that's very popular, trendy on social media like Aura Farming one zero one, dress sharp and read a book in public.

这个笑话之所以有效，是因为它贴近真相。

The joke kind of works because it land close to the truth.

而且，没错，这确实也符合所谓表演型男性的特点。

And, yeah, that kind of fits what performative male are kind of known for too.

是的。

Yeah.

这在中国存在吗？

Does this exist in China?

是的。

Yeah.

正如我们提到的，这种现象以及你所描述的所有趋势，在中国社交媒体上也出现了，尤其是在约会、在线约会的场景中。

As we mentioned it, it it seems like and as you've been, like, describing all of that phenomenon and trends we can see, yeah, it's appearing in Chinese social media as well, especially in maybe in the scene of dating, online dating scenes.

于是他们通常会把自己描述为有艺术气息且博学多才，并总是列出一长串自己的阅读书目。

So and then they will mostly introduce themselves as artsy and knowledgeable and they will always list a long list of their, like, reading list.

我也有这样一个书单。

I have a book list of that.

嗯。

Yeah.

而且通常都是些深刻而富有哲思的哲学书籍，他们还会说，我喜欢那位著名导演，比如王家卫，或者等等。

And mostly, it will be very deep and thoughtful philosophical books and I I and also, they will describe that I like that famous director, maybe Wong Kar Wei or the Why hold on.

你为什么现在笑呢？

Why are you laughing right now?

因为这让我想起现在女孩们很喜欢的一个主题或标签，叫‘高冷极客’，但这是同一种东西吗？

Because it reminds me of a of a a theme or hashtag that girls kind of love these days called the hot nerd, but is is it the same?

比如那些戴眼镜、卷头发的‘高冷极客’。

Like, hot nerds who are, you know, wearing glasses and and and curling their hair

而且他们是在假装吸引别人，因为这些正是他们想向别人展示的标志：我很有艺术气质，我喜欢那些深沉的电影。

Unless and they are pretending to attract people because these are things maybe they they are the icons that they want to show people that I am that artsy and I like that deep thought movies or films.

而且照片对他们来说也是一种艺术形式，比如手冲咖啡、抹茶拿铁、在独立书店看书、黑白摄影，所有这些……

And also photos are also another art form for them, like hand brewed coffee or matcha latte, reading an indie bookstore and black and white photography, everything that Yeah.

他们试图把这些都设计成……是的。

They tried to design them as Yes.

A

A

说完你的想法，抱歉。

Finish your thought, sorry.

这样的人，

That kind of person,

我我我我还有进步。

I I I I and progressive.

我打断一下，因为我突然想起了抹茶。

I interrupted because I just I suddenly remembered the matcha.

抹茶，那种饮品

The matcha, the drink

是的。

Yeah.

喝抹茶是表演型男性审美中非常重要的一部分，坐在咖啡馆里拿着一杯抹茶。

Is a huge part of the performative male's aesthetic, sitting in the cafe holding a matcha.

这里也有这种现象吗？

Is that a thing here too?

不，确实有。

No, it is.

拿着抹茶坐在食堂本身并没有错，但如果你只是把这杯抹茶当作展示自己身份或气质的道具，那你就会成为这种‘表演型男性’氛围的一部分。

It's not that it's wrong to hold a matcha and sit in the cafeteria, but it's just something If you're using that cup of matcha just as a prop to showcase your own identity or aura, then you become part of that vibe of performative male.

这让我觉得某种程度上它是性别中立的，因为我们所描述的这一切——抹茶、黑胶唱片，还有80年代的风格——

And this kind of strikes me as if it's gender neutral in a way because all that we've described, tot back, macha, and and and and the vinyl, like 80.

那种为电影或某种神秘氛围营造的美学，女孩也可以拥有。

The aesthetics for for a movie or a certain kind of mysterious feelings that you give other people, that can also be a girl's thing.

任何人都可以。

It can be anybody.

任何人都可以。

It can be anybody.

只要你真诚就好。

As long as you're genuine.

嗯。

Yeah.

如今，焦点集中在表演型男性身上。

These days, the focus is on the performative male though.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那为什么人们这么讨厌这种现象呢？

So why why don't why why are people hating this so much?

你知道吗，因为这些艺术型男性在初期约会或交往时，常常表现得敏感且进步。

You know, because in the way that performative, these artsy men often present themselves as sensitive and progressive in the early stage of maybe meeting or dating.

但一旦关系加深，他们陈旧的性别观念就开始显露出来。

But once that kind of relationship deepens, they their, like, outdated gender views begin to show.

他们只是展现出了真实的自己，嗯。

They just reveal their real version of them Mhmm.

于是，他们所说的和他们实际的样子之间就产生了巨大的脱节。

And then that is a deep disconnect between what they say and who they actually are.

你的线上自我和线下自我并不是同一个人。

Your online self and your offline self are not the same person.

嗯。

Yeah.

在那种表演之下，他们仍然有着那种旧式的傲慢，而现在这种傲慢被包裹在敏感和脆弱的外表中，用作一种工具，从另一方榨取情感劳动。

So beneath that kind of performance, they still have that kind of old arrogance and only now it's wrapped in that kind of sensitive vulnerability and used as a weapon to extract their emotional labor from maybe another side of

嗯。

Yeah.

我理解这一点，这确实值得批评，因为如果你假装成一个根本不是你的人，那确实不好。

And I understand that, and that is worth criticism because if you are pretending to be somebody else that you're not, well then, sure, it's bad.

但这件事也有另一面，我认为有时候这种批评会走向极端，变成一种性别规训。

There's a flip side to this coin though, and I think sometimes this criticism can get to a point where gender policing becomes a thing.

那些不表演的男性呢？

What about the men who are not performing?

嗯。

Yeah.

我刚才也在想这个问题。

I was thinking about that too.

那那些拥有柔和特质、柔和审美或具有内省性格的男性呢？他们在线上却被嘲笑或攻击为不真实。

What what about the men who have a softer side or a softer aesthetic or they do have an introspective persona, but they're mocked or they're attacked online as being inauthentic

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者被说成不够阳刚。

Or maybe even unmanly.

那么，你就是在迫使这类男性退回到传统的男性气质中，被迫在网上发布自己脱掉上衣在健身房的照片，

Well, then you're pushing that type of man back into the to retreat into perhaps traditional masculinity, where you're supposed to show pictures online of you with your shirt off at

说：‘今天我卧推了200公斤。’

the gym saying, oh, I bench press

类似这样的东西。

200 kilograms today.

就是这样。

Something like that.

并不是说那样有什么不对，我只是说这两种方式都没有错。

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with either of them.

所以，你可能会强化那些社会进步一直在努力挑战和改变的刻板印象，我认为。

So you could reinforce the very stereotypes that social progress is constantly trying to challenge and to change, I think.

嗯。

Yeah.

这在很大程度上取决于你如何展示自己的形象或网络人设。

It's just how well you are demonstrating your kind of figure or your online persona in many ways.

因为如今，一个人在网上可以展现出许多不同的化身。

Because nowadays, one person can have a lot of different alter ego as shown online.

这是我的一个版本，而那个则是别的什么东西。

This is one version of me and then that's some something else.

但我们更希望看到一个真实、鲜活的人展现他生活中的不同侧面，而不是说，哦，这就是你为他人展示而精心策划的生活。

But we want to see a genuine, alive person showcasing a different facet of his life instead of, oh, this is how you stage your life for other people to see.

但难道我们不一直都是在不断表演吗？

But aren't we all just performing all the time anyway?

意思是，这非常

Mean, this is a very

在某些方面。

In some ways.

问题。

Question.

是的。

Yeah.

在工作、公共场合或网上。

At work or in public or online.

所以真正的问题不在于表演是否存在，而在于是否还存在一个未被优化用于展示的自我版本。

So the real questions isn't just whether performance exists, but whether there's still a version of that self that isn't optimized for a display.

我们并不是说这些都不对。

And we're not saying any of these are run.

如果你真的很喜欢这种东西，那是因为这正是很多人所青睐的。

If you're real bad, like, into that kind of things because it it is just you and some and they are doing that is just because that is favored by a lot of people.

所以只有当他们只是假装成那样，而那并不是真实和真诚的。

So only if they are just pretending to be like that and that's not real and authentic.

所以想想看，当没有任何东西被记录、没有任何东西被发现时，你是谁？

So think about, like, who are you when nothing is being captured and when nothing is being found.

嗯。

Yeah.

当摄像头不在时，你是谁？

Who are you when the camera's not around?

嗯。

Yeah.

无论是女孩还是男孩，线上还是线下，只要你保持真诚，这就会被所有人接受。

Girl or boy, online or off line, as long as you stay genuine, that's going to be something that will be accepted by everybody else.

你不必一直装模作样。

You don't have to fake it all the time.

我无法再改进这一点了，所以我就此结束这一段。

I can't improve on that, so I'll wrap up this segment.

您正在收听《圆桌论坛》，接下来，臭名昭著的榴莲是否已成为超市里最热门的商品？

You're listening to Roundtable, and coming up, has the stinky little durian become the hottest item in the supermarket?

寻找激情？

Looking for passion?

想听一场激烈的辩论吗？

How about fiery debate?

想从不同视角了解中国时事吗？

Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives?

那就锁定《圆桌论坛》，在这里，东西方交汇，理解是我们的目标。

Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.

您正在收听《圆桌论坛》。

You're listening to Roundtable.

我是史蒂夫，与玉顺和玉山一起主持。

I'm Steve with Yushun and Yushan.

几十年前，你可以说鸡蛋是超市吸引顾客的可靠之选。

A couple of decades ago, you could argue that eggs were the supermarket's reliable go to for drawing in customers.

但如今，榴莲成了焦点，这源于人们对小奢侈的渴望以及社交媒体上的病毒式炒作。

But today, the durian is in the spotlight, and it's fueled by people's desire for little indulgences and viral social media hype.

对我来说，这是一种非常有趣的变化。

This to me is kind of a fascinating change.

这是对新一代购物者直接的回应，他们正在彻底重塑超市零售的本质。

It is a direct reaction to a new generation of shoppers that is kind of completely rewriting what retail in the supermarket is all about.

那么，这里究竟发生了什么？

So what's going on here?

是的。

Yeah.

首先，我们需要了解这个背景。

And first of all, that is the background we need to know.

过去，比如十年前到二十年前，超市只是采用这类策略，比如购物赠送免费鸡蛋，或以极低的价格销售鸡蛋，来吸引顾客排队，让你觉得超市非常火爆。

In the past, perhaps, like ten to twenty years ago, supermarkets just used that kind of strategies, like giving out or giving away free eggs with purchases or selling eggs at really, really low price to attract customers to queue in that supermarkets to make you feel that it is really popular.

我奶奶现在还经常参加这类活动。

My grandma's still kind of attending these kind of activities.

嗯。

Yeah.

我以前也和我妈妈一起参加过。

I was also participating with my mom.

没有什么比免费的鸡蛋更好了。

The only thing better than an egg is a free egg.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以以前大部分顾客都是中年人或老年人，但现在有点不一样了。

So most of the those customers were, like, middle aged or elderly, but now it is a little different.

榴莲已经成为超市在新零售环境中吸引顾客、甚至年轻人的新手段。

Durian has emerged as supermarkets' new trafficking to attract people or even young people in the new retail landscape.

我们看到像Gema、山姆会员店和永辉这样的知名超市连锁，都推出了激进的榴莲促销活动，比如买榴莲时500克只要9.2元。

And we watched, like, supermarket chains like, Gema and Sam's Club and Yunghui, these are just, some well known brands, and roll out aggressive durian promotions like $9.20 yuan for 500 gram when buying a durian.

这还不错。

That's not bad.

是啊。

That's yeah.

当你和其他价格相比时，这个价格真的很合理。

That's really kind of a reasonable price when you compare it to other prices.

比如，一个重约五公斤的榴莲，如果你经常购买，价格可能会贵上一百元左右。

A durian that weighs, let's say, about five kilograms, as an example, if you have that, like, regularly, if if if you buy that, it can be more like, 100 yuan more expensive.

是的。

Yeah.

所以他们现在用榴莲的方式，就像几十年前用鸡蛋来吸引顾客一样。

So they're using the durian in the same way that they used the eggs a couple of decades ago to attract people.

没错。

Exactly.

在中国，我们说每一代人都有自己免费的鸡蛋。

Here in China, we call it each generation has their own free eggs.

是的。

Yes.

对奶奶辈的人来说，那是真正免费的鸡蛋，但对我们来说，就是便宜的榴莲。

For grandmas, it's the genuine free eggs, but for us, it's the cheaper durian fruit.

那为什么是榴莲呢？

Then why why the durian?

为什么榴莲会被选为明星？

Why has the durian been selected as the star?

因为如今，在社交媒体的影响下，榴莲已经逐渐成为许多人眼中的奢侈享受，你知道它有多甜。

Because nowadays, under social media influence, durian fruit has kind of become this luxurious indulgence for many because you know how sweet it is.

这不仅仅是年轻人的喜好。

It's not even just for the young people.

而是人人都喜欢。

It's for just everybody.

就在我们来演播室之前，我无意中听到我们的视频团队坐在我们身后同一间房间里。

Just right before we come down to the studio, I overheard our video team sitting behind us in the same room.

一位快到退休年龄的资深编辑，正夸赞榴莲的味道有多好。

One of the chief editor, a fine gentleman who's close to his retirement age, just praising how good durian fruit tastes.

这就是事物的魅力所在。

So that's the appeal of things.

我从未说过

I've never said

他那个臭的部分。

him smelly part.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

总是跳过这一点。

Always skipping that.

但当我们把目光转向Z世代的年轻人时，确实如此，尤其是对于我们这些年龄在20到35岁之间的人来说，我们确实是当今中国消费的主力。

But then zooming back to the Gen Z young people, we are indeed well, especially for the those of us who age between 20 to 35, we are indeed the the driving force of a lot of today's China's consumption nowadays.

占总消费量的60%以上。

That make up over 60% of total consumption.

而我们的所谓‘免费鸡蛋’，正是超市目前正在研究的东西。

And what will be ours, the quote, unquote free egg is what the supermarkets are figuring out now.

他们得出了一个结论：榴莲。

And they come up with a conclusion, durian fruit.

因为年轻人喜欢榴莲，以相对便宜的价格购买它让我们觉得，嗯，我们在奖励自己。

Because young people, we love durian fruit, and buying it in a relatively cheaper price make us feel, yeah, we're rewarding ourselves.

说到奖励，这和盲盒热潮有关联。

Speaking of reward, there's a connection to the to the blind box drama.

抱歉。

Excuse me.

解释一下为什么或如何榴莲能和盲盒联系起来。

To explain why or how a durian can be connected to a blind box.

买榴莲时根本不知道里面是什么，也不知道果肉有多大，这难道不有趣吗？榴莲本身就是这样，解释一下。

Isn't that just fun when you buy a durian and you will never because durian itself, you don't know what's inside and how big that fruit can be and Explain, please.

当你打开坚硬的外壳时，能取出多少块果肉呢？

How how many of that slice of durian that you can get when you open that hard shell.

哦。

Oh.

它可能是个大水果，但里面可能只有很小的一块果肉。

It can be a big fruit, but it can be a really small piece of fruit inside.

这就是

That's the

盲盒的部分。

blind box part.

你看，我从来没买过榴莲。

See, I've never purchased a durian.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

你得试试。

You need to try it.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以我之前不知道这个。

So I didn't know this.

你没法分辨，就像西瓜一样，对吧？

You can't tell because like a watermelon, right?

他们说你可以敲敲西瓜，或者看底部的小斑块。

They say you can knock on a watermelon or you look for the little patch on the bottom.

但榴莲不一样，你单靠外观根本无法判断里面的情况。

But with a durian, you you can't tell what's going on inside just by looking at the outside.

是的。

Yeah.

如果它不会从内部裂开，你也看不到里面，那就永远不知道会得到多大个的水果。

If if if it doesn't break from inside and you can't peek inside, then you never know what size of a fruit you're getting.

这

That

还挺有趣的，我想。

is kind of fun, I suppose.

对。

Right.

不是吗？

Isn't it?

所以超市知道，这已经成为年轻人中一种小众而有趣的现象。

So supermarkets, they know that it's become kind of a niche little fun thing for young people.

他们已经把这和盲盒联系起来了。

They've done the blind box connection.

因此，他们在炒作背后确实采取了一些积极的策略。

So they've put some some active strategy behind the hype then.

首先，这在某种程度上是一种筛选机制，当你试图吸引那些愿意为更高品质产品支付更多费用的人群时，而购买榴莲的人往往也是樱桃、高端海鲜等较高利润产品的潜在消费者。

First of all, it is kind of a screening when you are trying to attract these group people who would like to, of course, pay a little bit more for higher quality products maybe, and then durian buyers are often potential consumers of these high margin products like cherries, premium seafood, and these relatively more expensive products.

即使榴莲盲盒收支平衡或亏损，它也像一张门票，锁定了这些有价值的顾客。

And even if durian cells break even or lose money, it acts like a ticket to locking these valuable customers.

而且这确实有效。

And it works.

嗯。

Mhmm.

新开店的话，看看这个数据。

For new stores check out this statistic.

对于新开店来说，榴莲能带来即时客流，占开业销售额的高达50%。

For new stores, durian drives immediate foot traffic accounting for up to 50% of opening sales.

是的。

Yes.

有榴莲促销的店铺，收入可以达到没有促销店铺的三倍。

Stores with durian promotions can see three times the revenue of those without.

然后是口碑传播。

And then word-of-mouth.

它在社区里传播得很快。

It spreads quickly within the community.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

呃，超市正在搞榴莲促销，他们就是这么利用这个机会的。

About, oh, there's a hot sale at the supermarket with the durians going on, and that's how they're taking advantage.

但每个零售商也需要找到适合自己的榴莲。

But each retailers are also kinda need to identify your own durian.

并不是所有情况都适用同一个标准，因为不同地区受欢迎的水果不同。

It's not always that one standard fit all because for some, it's well, depending on the regions, some fruits are more welcomed and then some are not.

所以这也很有趣，好吧。

So that's also very interesting Alright.

通知

Notification

你们是榴莲爱好者吗？

to Are you fans of durian?

你喜欢吗？是的。

Do you like Yes.

我是。

I am.

哦。

Oh.

我的宝贝。

My precious.

我

I

我也是榴莲的粉丝。

am too fans of durian.

我不是。

And I am not.

哎。

Aw.

我可以告诉你，如果你以前没闻过榴莲，一旦闻到，你就会说，哦，这一定是榴莲。

And I can tell you, if you've never smelled durian before, if you do, you will say, oh, that must be durian.

关于这一点，我就说这些了。

That's all I can say about that.

今天第四组圆桌讨论就到这里。

And that'll do it for round table four today.

非常感谢你们与我们分享宝贵时间。

Thank you very much for sharing your time with us.

感谢玉顺和玉山。

Thanks to Yushun and Yushan.

我是史蒂夫。

I'm Steve.

祝你们愉快，下次再见。

Have a good one, and we'll see you next time.