返场特辑：女性玩家正成为游戏界的新兴力量

讨论让世界运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

你知道吗？全球游戏产业规模现已超越音乐和电影产业的总和，去年收入超过1840亿美元。在中国，女性玩家占比近半数，从游戏设计到电子竞技都产生影响，推动着更加多元的游戏文化。让我们探讨这一转变如何展开，及其对游戏未来的意义。这里是圆桌论坛，我是杨。

Did you know that the global gaming industry is now bigger than music and movies combined, generating over 184,000,000,000 US dollars last year? In China, women take up nearly half of all gamers, influencing everything from game design to esports and contributing to a more diverse gaming culture. Let's explore how this shift is unfolding and what it means for the future of gaming. This is Roundtable. I'm Young.

今天的节目，我们邀请到史蒂夫和艺珊来到演播室。首先关注：电子游戏世界长期被视为男性主导的领域，但随着女性玩家数量激增带来的深刻变革，正在重塑这一格局。这股强大力量正挑战着关于玩家身份的旧有认知，促使游戏产业通过创作者和角色设计，缓慢而坚定地反映这一新现实。首先让我们回溯源头。

For today's program, I'm joined by Steve and Yi Shan in the the studio. First on today's show. The video game world has long been perceived as a male dominant or dominated space, yet a profound transformation fueled by the surge of female players is reshaping its landscape. This powerful shift is challenging old assumptions about who a gamer is, compelling the industry itself to slowly but surely reflect this new reality through its creators and characters. First of all, let's go back to the beginning.

游戏产业传统上如何被男性主导定义？这种主导产生了哪些影响？

How was the gaming industry traditionally defined by male dominance and what was the impact of that?

哇，如果回顾上世纪八九十年代，我们几乎能看到这样一种逻辑：当时许多游戏的营销活动都严重依赖动作主题或侵略性主题——建造、战争、比如修建城堡之类的。这些主题无形中就将女性受众排斥在外。这也形成了某种恶性循环，游戏本身及其周边文化不断强化这些以男性为中心的模式，让女性玩家自觉退避，认为'这或许不适合我'。

Wow. If you look back from all the way from the nineteen eighties to the nineteen nineties, we can almost see there's a logic there that the marketing campaigns for a lot of the games back then, they really heavily rely on action themed or aggression themed, building things, warfare, and, like, constructing a castle or something. So these are all themes that sort of that's alienating just putting female audiences outside of the circle. And this also created such a feedback loop where these games themselves and the culture around them are reinforced kind of these male centric stereotypes, making female gamers kind of stepping away knowing that, oh, this is perhaps not for me.

是的。当时的整个产业架构完全基于特定人群——年轻男性群体。嗯。

Yeah. The the industry industry at that time, it was built on a really specific demographic. Right? And that demographic was young males. Mhmm.

确实如此。正如你刚才所说，这种思维模式疏远了女性玩家群体，并且在游戏行业中如此普遍，以至于影响了所制作的游戏类型以及游戏中存在的角色类型。一位名叫简·麦戈尼格尔的游戏设计师兼研究者这样描述：长期以来，游戏行业根本不认为女性是一个有潜力的市场，其重点在于迎合现有的预设受众，而非开拓新群体。

So it it did. It alienated the female audience because of the reasons that you just said, and that mindset was so pervasive in the industry that it influenced the types of games that were made and the types of characters that existed within those games. One game designer and researcher, her name was Jane McGonigal. She put it like this. For a long time, the gaming industry just didn't see women as a viable market, and the focus was on catering to an existing perceived audience, not on building a new one.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这就是游戏行业长期以来的运作方式。

And that's how and that's how the gaming industry existed for a long time.

是的。这让我想起那些游戏中女性角色曾经扮演的角色，因为在很多情况下，女性角色往往代表着浪漫元素，或是为了满足游戏叙事中的浪漫需求。多年来，女性角色常被边缘化，被塑造成需要救援的落难少女形象

Yeah. This reminds me of what kind of role the female characters in those games used to play because in a lot of the cases, the female characters, they are kind of representing the romantic side or or there to fulfill the romantic side of the narrative within the game. For for many years, female characters, they were often sidelined, used as a damsel in distress

救救我。

Help me.

等待被拯救。

Waiting to be saved.

哦，我需要一个男人来救我。就是那种角色。嗯。她们还经常被过度性感化，对吧？

Oh, I need a man to save me. Like that type of character. Mhmm. They were also they were also hypersexualized. Right?

嗯。那曾是一种趋势。我的意思是，这种趋势至今在某些圈子仍能看到，但它曾经是主流趋势。可以说当时缺乏真正真实的女性形象代表，这让许多女性很难觉得自己属于游戏世界。对吧？

Mhmm. And that was a trend. I mean, that trend, you could still find it existing in some circles today, but that used to be the main the main trend. And there was a lack of really authentic representation, I think you can say, and that made it really difficult for many women to feel like they belonged in the gaming world. Right?

想象一下。你是个年轻女性，二十多岁甚至三四十岁，然后你想，好吧，也许我丈夫、男友、姐妹或阿姨最近在玩游戏，我也试试看。你打开游戏，却看到穿着比基尼的女性角色说着‘我需要男人帮助’。

Imagine that. You're a young woman, a woman in your twenties or even thirties, forties, whatever, and you're you're, oh, okay. Maybe I'm you know, my husband, my boyfriend, my my sister, my aunt is is gaming these days. Maybe I'll give it a shot. You turn on the game, and there's a woman in a bikini, you know, saying, oh, I need help from a man.

这并不能激励女性参与游戏，不是吗？

It doesn't inspire. It doesn't encourage, you know, female participation, does it?

这个观点很好。这让我想起2000年代初，虽然父母老师都不喜欢，但青少年们依然在玩电子游戏。当然学校也不赞成，但有时男女学生会因此走得很近。我记得那时情侣们会去网吧打游戏，游戏里的性别歧视简直触目惊心，但当时却非常普遍。

That's a very good point. And this draws back some memories in the early two thousands when, of course, parents, you know, didn't like it, teachers didn't like it, but kids, teenagers were playing video games anyway. And of course, teachers and parents won't like this, but, you know, sometimes a boy and a girl could get quite close to each other and the schools did not like it. But anyway, so I remember back then, these couples, they would go to the Internet cafe to play the video game. And it was always listen to just how sexist it was, but it was very common.

男生和兄弟们联机打游戏，女朋友就在旁边陪着。她甚至没有自己的游戏可玩。嗯，只是在那里陪着消磨时间。

The guy was playing video games online with his mates. And the girlfriend was there to keep him company. So she she didn't even have a game to play. Mhmm. But she was just there to, you know, hang out.

嗯。看看现在，全球游戏玩家中近半数是女性。二十年左右的时间变化多大啊。但我青少年时期确实是那样。

Mhmm. And look at today. About half of the global gaming population is actually female users. So how things have changed in twenty, twenty five years or so. But I remember that from my teenage years.

如果你也是千禧一代，如果觉得这就是当年的真实情况，欢迎留言或点头共鸣。

And if you're also a millennial, write in and or or nod along if you think that was, you know, what it was like.

是的。这不仅仅是一个创意决定。对吧？请原谅我这么说。这不仅仅是创意团队围坐在一起想着，哦，你知道的，我们的英雄必须是个肌肉猛男。

Yeah. And this this was not just a creative decision. Right? This wasn't pardon me. This wasn't just the creative team sitting around thinking, oh, you know, our hero needs to be a man with tough muscles.

不。这是个商业决策，因为很多男性玩家，你知道的，在游戏开始时会有角色选择。你想扮演这个角色还是那个角色？很多男性不愿意扮演女性角色，甚至不愿意与女性主角产生共鸣，这就形成了一个恶性循环，导致女性的故事根本无人讲述。

No. This was a business decision because a lot of the male players, you know, when you start the game, you have a character choice. Do you wanna play this character or do you wanna play that character? Well, a lot of men wouldn't want to play as a female character or even connect with the female protagonist, and this created a really vicious cycle where women's stories were just not even told.

是啊。这不是优先考虑的事情。

Yeah. It's not a priority.

不。这些故事甚至根本没在游戏里出现过。但你

No. They weren't even the stories weren't even told within the games themselves. But you

某种程度上也能理解，因为

can kind of understand because

这是个商业决策，没错。

It was a business decision, yeah.

是的。你希望你的故事和产品能与目标受众产生共鸣，而我们解释过目标受众是谁。但从一开始，我们刚才说的这些就让人们对'玩家'这个词产生了某种固有印象。女性似乎根本就没资格与这个名称沾边。你觉得这种刻板印象正在改变吗？

Yeah. And you want to really make your story and your product vibe with your target audience, and we explained who the target audience was. But also from the very beginning, everything we've just said sort of made people think or have a certain perception towards the word gamer. And a female certainly did not really seem to have the license to even come to close association with the name. And do you think that kind of stereotype is changing?

或者你对'玩家'这个词有什么看法？

Or maybe what are your perceptions towards the word gamer?

对我来说这是个性别中立的词汇，正如你所说，因为在现代语境下，任何年龄或性别的人都可以成为玩家。想到玩家时，我不会特指男性，毕竟我自己现在几乎每周都在玩游戏。

It's just gender neutral term for me as you mentioned it because everybody, anybody of all different age or gender can be a gamer at at at modern, say, context under modern context, let let's say. If I think of a gamer, I wouldn't be specifically thinking about a man because me and myself are playing games almost every week nowadays.

你认为自己是玩家吗？

Do you consider yourself a gamer?

当然，毫无疑问。

Yeah. Absolutely.

好的。

Okay.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有些人——虽然这未必是性别问题——更像是如果你是个纯粹主义者，对自己热衷的小众爱好非常自豪，有时人们会倾向于在这个概念周围筑墙以宣示主权。比如，如果你花大量时间玩电子游戏，可能作为男性，'玩家'这个词会给你某种优越感。而当新人加入时说...（史蒂夫，不知道现在是否还这样）比如她在玩那些...是叫休闲游戏吗？

Well, some people but this is not really necessarily a gender issue, but it's more like a if you're a purist, if you're very proud about a niche hobby that you're into, sometimes people tend to like to build up walls around that concept to make it to claim agency of it. For example, if you're spending a lot of time on video games or perhaps a man, the word gamer kind of gives you a certain sense of entitlement or something. And then when these newcomers come in and say and and also, I mean, see if this is still true, Steve. If, let's say, she's playing these, like is is it called quiet pleasure games? Or

Cozy游戏？

Co cozy games?

我可以

I could

可能我搞错了。我想是这个术语。大概是类似的东西。

be wrong about that. I think that's the term. It's something like that.

类似的东西。或者，你知道，她在玩一些恋爱模拟游戏，或者，在疫情期间，那个养青蛙的游戏特别火，记得吗？旅行青蛙？太多人喜欢它了。连黎明都玩过。

Something like that. Or, you know, she's playing some relationship simulation game or, you know, just or, during COVID, there was that game that was so popular about taking care of a frog, you know? Traveling frog? It was it was so many people loved it. Even Lai Ming played it.

是啊。

Yeah.

对。总之，这些都不是传统意义上的硬核游戏，你知道，那种需要公会之类的。

Yeah. And anyway, so, but those aren't really the traditionally perceived hardcore games, you know, that requires a council and stuff like that.

当然。你说的是像《糖果传奇》这样的游戏。不知道你熟不熟悉，就是需要三个连成一排消除的那种，那种非暴力、色彩鲜艳可爱的类型。对。对。

Sure. You're you're talking about games like Candy Crush. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that one, where you have to match, you know, three in a row to make it disappear, like those those types of kind of nonviolent with cute vibrant colors. Yeah. Yeah.

这类游戏被称为舒适游戏，我想这可能是部分女性进入游戏行业的切入点。这或许也是导致行业转变的部分原因。但转变确实已经发生了，对吧？我们之前一直在讨论过去的情况。

Think they're called cozy games, and, yeah, I I guess that was kind of an entry point for for women, perhaps from for some women into into the gaming industry. And that could be part of the reason that, you know, caused the shift. But but the shift the shift has happened. Right? So far, we've been talking about how it used to be.

对吧？但现在定义不同了。你提到过，玩家的定义已经改变，不再特指某一性别。

Right? But now the definition yeah. You talked about it. The definition of gamer is different. It doesn't suggest one gender or another.

嗯。也不再区分酷不酷。长期以来，玩家这个词总让人联想到在地下室玩《龙与地下城》的失败者，你懂我意思吗？

Mhmm. It also doesn't suggest cool or not cool. Yeah. I think for a long time, you know, the term gamer was kind of this, like had this connotation of, like, losers in a basement playing Dungeons and Dragons or something. You know what I mean?

《龙与地下城》怎么了？

What's wrong with Dungeons

不，我是说——

and Dragons? No. I mean,

确实有点书呆子气。

it had A bit nerdy.

这个词确实带有书呆子的意味。但随着电竞的兴起——这可能是另一个话题——当玩家变成了一件很酷的事，尤其当你技术高超时，因为顶尖玩家能赚大钱。

It had that nerd connotation to it. But now with the rise of esports, and maybe that's a different topic, but gamer has become a cool thing to be, especially if you're really good at it, because if you're really good at it, you're gonna make a ton of money from it.

是的。那么你认为导致这一巨大转变的关键因素是什么？

Yeah. So what do you think are the key factors that led to this massive shift?

嗯，一个关键因素无疑是移动平台的增长，让更多人能更轻松地接触到各种游戏。比如《糖果传奇》，我们刚才举了个很好的例子，还有《单词连连看》。嗯，这些游戏你总能看到它们的广告。在社交媒体上滑动时，它们就会弹出来。这类游戏并不像PC游戏那样需要投入大量时间和精力，在这方面它们并没有打动我。

Well, one key factor is definitely the growth of mobile platforms that's allowing more people to have easier access to all different kinds of games. Let's say, Candy Crush, we we raised a very good example just now, and Wordscapes Mhmm. And, yeah, some other those well, these games have seen advertisement advertisements of them all the time. As you swipe on your social media, they bump out. And they don't really impress me in a way that you have to dive in a lot of time and energy as you do while playing, say, via PC.

因为这些游戏更像你说的那样，史蒂夫，是种舒适游戏，或者说是能让你稍微放慢节奏，分散五分钟注意力的东西。是的。所以我认为这是游戏行业如今通过智能手机触达更多人群的新型环境。

Because these are more like just like you said, Steve comfort game or like kind of slowing down you a little bit, distract you for five minutes. Yeah. So I think this is the new type of environment that the game industry is reaching out to more people through nowadays. Your smartphone. Yeah.

是的。智能手机。

Yeah. Smartphone.

没错。移动平台的兴起和那些游戏的流行，比如你提到的《糖果传奇》，还有很多其他例子。游戏本身的设计可能也是原因。确实。

Yeah. The the rise of of mobile platforms and the popularity of those games, the ones you mentioned Candy Crush, and there would be many many more examples too. Yeah. It might be the design of the game itself. Sure.

但我认为更重要的是，它为以前不玩游戏或对游戏感到畏惧的人改变了游戏入口。这些游戏容易上手，容易玩，吸引了更广泛的人群。对吧？受众面广得多。

But I think the more important point is that it changed the entry point to gaming for people who hadn't gamed before or were intimidated by it. They were easy to pick up. They were easy to play, and it appealed to a bigger demographic. Right? A much wider demographic.

是的。其中很多人以前从不认为自己是玩家。想想看，如果你对游戏好奇，但刻板印象里游戏不该是你的菜，去游戏店买台主机或PC版游戏是件挺让人畏惧的事。对吧？确实可能如此。

Yeah. Many of whom had never identified themselves as gamers before. Think about if you're curious about gaming, but it's stereotypically not supposed to be your thing, going down to the game shop to buy a console or to buy a PC version of a game is kind of an intimidating thing. Right? It can be.

听起来就像是上个世纪的事情，确实。

It just sounds very it just sounds like a century ago to Yeah.

嗯

Well

我...我不去商店的。

I I don't go to a shop.

不，那些...不。游戏机吗？对，那些东西现在还有。

No. Those get no. For console? Yeah. Those those things still exist.

哦，好的。确实。

Oh, okay. For sure. Yeah.

你可以在线下载游戏，但它们依然存在

You can download your games online, but they they still exist

确实。

for sure.

但我说的是入门点。对吧？嗯哼。这是你可以在家拿着手机就能做的事。嗯。满足好奇心后，通往更广阔游戏世界的大门就打开了。

But I'm I'm talking about the entry point. Right? Uh-huh. This is something that you could do from your home holding your smartphone in your hand Mhmm. And satisfy that curiosity level, and there there the door opens to a bigger gaming world.

是啊。说到游戏主机，我大概两年前入手的时候，也经历了和你描述的一模一样的过程，Steve。两三年前我就在纠结是否该投入其中，但我真的很喜欢这些系列游戏，所以何乐不为呢？于是我就备齐设备开始研究了。所以没错，你说得对。

Yeah. And speaking of consoles, I think I got mine around two years ago where I was walking through the the exact same process you described, Steve, where I was deciding two to three years ago whether I should really embrace it, but I was really into these franchises, so why not? So I got these equipments ready and started investigating into it. So yeah. You're right.

对很多人来说，尤其是新手，女性在移动平台上往往更活跃。TechJury今年早些时候发布的数据显示，43%的女性手游玩家每周至少玩五天，而男性玩家只有38%。显然，对于

In for a lot of people, especially new beginners, women in particular are slightly more active on mobile platforms. And here's data from TechJury that's published earlier this year, that with 43% of female mobile gamers just playing at least five days a week comparing to 38% of their male counterparts. So, obviously, for

更活跃。

More active.

是的。对女性来说，这是个很好的起点。

Yeah. For female, it's a good place to start.

而手游在中国其实是个巨大的市场。过去十多年间，看看腾讯等大公司的产品组合就知道了。实际上中国游戏市场很大一部分是手游。我觉得这就是人们日常消磨时间的方式。还有各种游戏类型和叙事的涌现。

And for mobile games, it's actually a huge market in China. And for the last more than a decade or so, just look at the portfolio of huge companies such as Tencent and many others. Actually, a huge part of the gaming market here in China is mobile games. And that's just what people do to kill time every day, I think. And also the emergence of, diverse genres and narratives.

这是手游变得如此流行的重要原因。

This is a huge part to how this has become popular.

是的，现在的游戏真的变了。对吧？它已经远远超越了传统类型，比如第一人称射击游戏，还有我在大学时期沉迷的那些体育模拟类游戏，那时我花了太多时间打游戏而不是学习。但这些新类型，比如剧情驱动的冒险游戏。

Yeah. So gaming now has really changed. Right? It's evolved far beyond the traditional genres of these, first person shooter styles of games, these sports simulation style games that I was absolutely obsessed with in my college years, spending way too many hours playing those instead of studying. But these new genres, like these narrative driven adventure games.

对吧？模拟游戏也变得非常流行。协作建造类游戏吸引了更多寻求不同故事类型的玩家。对吧？我认为游戏行业意识到并非所有游戏都必须一个样。

Right? Simulation games as well became really popular. Collaborative building games, they've attracted a wider range of players who are looking for a different type of story. Right? And I think that's what the gaming industry realized is not everything has to be like, right?

不是所有人都喜欢那样。嗯。但话说回来，我认为在游戏史上女性主角有几个非常重要的节点。举个例子，不知道你是否熟悉《古墓丽影》这款游戏。

Not everyone loves that. Mhmm. But that being said, there were a couple of of really important points, I think, in the history of gaming for female protagonists. And one example, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the game Tomb Raider.

哦，是的。

Oh, yes.

1996年是最初的版本。对，劳拉·克劳馥嗯。她是游戏的主角，是一个坚强独立的女性，肩负着拯救世界的使命。

1996 was the original. Right. Lara Croft Mhmm. Was the hero of the game, and she was this strong independent woman who was in charge of saving the world.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我不知道在游戏行业之前是否有角色能如此积极和强有力地代表女性。那款游戏被视为女性在游戏领域的一个里程碑时刻。

And I don't know if there was a character before that in the gaming industry that represented women so positively and so strongly. That game is looked at as a really kind of a landmark moment for women in gaming.

是的，确实如此。但看看我们对劳拉·克劳馥形象的认知差异有多大。记得在21世纪初，安吉丽娜·朱莉主演了那部电影，当时在我们青少年中引起了轰动。我至今仍对那个版本的劳拉·克劳馥充满敬畏。

Yes. And that is true. But look how differently we perceive the image of Lara Croft. Back then, in the early two thousands, I remember Angelina Jolie starred in that movie and it was kind of a big thing among us teenagers at the time. And I remember being very in awe of the portrayal of Lara Croft.

不过我记得几年前出了续集。

But I think the sequel a sequel came out a few years ago.

嗯。

Mhmm.

人们对劳拉·克劳馥的认知——她著名的沙漏型身材。当续集上映时，换了位身材没那么夸张的女演员。当时大家说这反映了时代变化，现在我们认为女性形象——特别是娱乐行业中的女性塑造——不必如此夸张地突出性征以至于脱离现实。至少对我来说，现在我更喜欢不那么强调巨乳细腰的劳拉形象了。

And people's perception towards Lara Croft, she famously has this hourglass silhouette of her body. And then when the the sequel came out, well, it had a different female actress who had less of a body shape like that. And then people were saying, oh, this reflects the our times because now we don't feel like women should or at least, you know, these portrayals of women in public or or in the entertainment business. It doesn't have to be so grotesistically accentuated and of her female features that it looks so far off from reality. And then now, like when you look back to, at least for me, I think I I prefer a Lara Croft that doesn't scream ginormous bosoms and, pelvis anymore with a tiny waist.

现实中根本没人长那样，即便那是媒体塑造的形象。所以我觉得这种认知转变很有意思。我们再来看看中国的情况：游戏产业对女性角色的考量发生了巨大转变。过去几十年中国女性玩家群体和游戏产业经历了怎样的发展？

No human being looks like that, even if, you know, it's a media portrayal of you know, or whatsoever. So I think there's an interesting sort of change in perception in that sense as well. So let's take a look at also here in China. We've seen that there are massive shifts towards women, the consideration of women in the gaming industry. How has the female gamer presence and the gaming industry in China evolved over the past decades?

几十年啊。

Decades.

哇！我在做这部分调研时真心为这些了不起的女性感到骄傲。因为确实，就像西方曾经那样，电竞游戏在中国长期被贴上男性标签，但这种情况正在改变。越来越多的中国女性不仅作为玩家参与，还成为解说员和幕后专业人员。

Wow. I was so proud for all these awesome women when I did the research for this part. It's because yeah. For a long time, just like how it's like it used to be like in the West, esports were gaming here in China, also carried a male label, but that's changing. More and more women are stepping in here in China as well, and they're not just as players, but also as commentators and behind the scenes professionals.

如今在中国游戏市场中，女性参与形式多样，甚至有人专门举办电竞赛事，她们对游戏了如指掌，通过引导观众情绪让整场活动更具视觉表现力。根据《2022年中国电竞产业报告》，女性玩家已占全游戏类型用户的43%以上。还记得原定2022年实则2023年举办的杭州亚运会吗？那正是电竞作为正式奖牌项目亮相的历史性时刻。

Some are even there to say host an event of esports and they know the game so well that they're hosting and they're guiding the audiences say emotions in a way throughout that event and make it more say presentable visually. So these are all the female participation in China's gaming market nowadays. And in fact, according to the 2022 China esports industry report, women now make up over 43% of users of all different game genres. And also on the industry side, do you remember the twenty twenty two Hangzhou Asian Games that was actually held in 2023? But that's when the historical milestone was made when esports debuted as an official medal event.

这真正将电子游戏提升至职业电竞层面——至少在中国如此，也帮助人们重新认识游戏：它不再只是宅家消遣或承受父母老师压力的活动，而是一项可职业化的高速发展运动与生活方式。

So that really elevated video gaming into the realm of professional esports, at least here in China, and also positioning people help people see or view gaming in general is not no longer just something you you can only do at home or just fearing pressures or, know, just criticism from your parents or teacher, but rather it's a fast growing sports and a lifestyle that's that you can go professional with. And

2022年深圳也迈出关键一步，腾讯电竞颁发了全市首张电竞职业技能证书，为电竞选手赋予行业正式身份证，标志着深圳认证体系

this was a big moment too, I think, in 2022. That's when Shenzhen, they kind of took it a step further, and they they took it further in professionalizing esports. Tencent esports issued the city's first official esports professional skill certificate. Yeah. And that gave esports players or the athletes a formal ID card in the industry, and that made Shenzhen's certification system.

自此更加标准化、专业化。最重要的是，这激励了更多年轻人投身电竞事业——当你能获得职业证书时，整个领域瞬间显得更真实专业。

It became more standardized after that. It became more professional after that. But maybe the most important point is that it encouraged more young people to pursue a a career in esports because then suddenly, when you're able to get that professional certificate, it automatically feels more real and more professional at the time.

线下领域而言，不仅中国，全球游戏产业——特别是游戏设计开发团队——仍由男性主导，性别偏见普遍存在。据伽马数据2018年报告，中国游戏行业女性从业者仅占27%，较上年增长不足2%。考虑到电竞已成中国主流市场，我很好奇过去两三年这种情况是否有所改善。

And offline speaking actually, I I think this is not just in China, but around the world as well. In the within the gaming industry, especially when we talk about the gaming companies where the designing groups where people are hired to produce games. So in these scenarios, it kinda still remain male dominated, and gender biases are still kind of common in these industries. At least here in China, that's according to a rather early report from 2018 from the data and analytics site, Gamma Data, that females made up only 27% of the industry's workforce, marking a less than 2% increase from the previous year. So I'm wondering if it's getting any better within the past, say, two to three years since esports is now a major market here in China.

确实如此。全球范围内，谷歌、育碧、网易等14家顶尖游戏公司84%的高管职位由男性担任。非高管岗位中，女性开发者仅占30%。若能实现性别平衡会更好——既然女性玩家比例显著提升，那么

Yeah. China and and globally too. 84% of executive positions in the top 14 global gaming companies, Google, Ubisoft, NetEase, for example, those positions are held by men. And outside of the executive positions, only 30% of the developers in the industry are women. It would be really nice to see those numbers balance out in the future because if you're having stronger representation of women playing the games, then the people developing the games Yeah.

游戏开发者群体也该有充分的女性代表才合理。

Should be strongly represented by women. That only makes sense.

是的。实际上这种趋势正在改变，因为你需要具体看每款游戏的情况。让我们深入探讨一下。从女性角色，或者说强势女性角色，到面向女性设计的游戏和女性主导的创意团队，请告诉我们中国游戏行业是如何拥抱女性用户的。我会举两个标志性例子。

Yes. And actually, that is changing because you kind of need to look at the the particular game as well. So let's talk We'll take a deeper dive into this. From female characters or, let's say, strong female characters to female oriented game designs and female led creative teams, tell us how the gaming industry is embracing female users here in China. Well, I'll raise two iconic examples.

其中一个例子是...

One one is something that I am

虽然我不是受众群体，但相信很多听众会感到熟悉——《王者荣耀》，由中国游戏巨头腾讯制作。实际上CNBC去年就报道过腾讯如何押注这款游戏在全球女性玩家中的增长。去年六月登陆美国市场仅一个月后，海外下载量就突破5000万次。游戏中所有英雄都源自中国历史人物。

not an audience of, but I believe many of our listeners may feel very familiar with. Honor of Kings, in Chinese, it's made by Chinese game giant, Tencent. And actually, CNBC reported on it just last year on how Tencent is really betting on the rise in female players worldwide for this game, honors of honor of kings. And just one month after it was introduced to The US market, last year in June, it achieved 50,000,000 downloads outside of China. So all the heroes inside that game originates from Chinese historical figures.

我特别喜欢这个设计。他们把历史人物融入现代游戏，当然服装造型会不同。比如花木兰，我们都知道她。

I really like Cool. This part. Yeah. They're pulling historical figures into modern games, of of course, dress them differently. But for instance, Mulan, we all know Mulan.

她是中国民间传说中的女战士形象。在《王者荣耀》中她定位是战士/刺客型英雄，而著名的唐朝女皇武则天则被设计成法师英雄。这两位在中国民间传说和历史中都是非常强大的真实人物，在游戏中也还原了她们的特质。

He she is, say, a the female, say, warrior figure from Chinese folklore. She is a fighter slash assassin hero in honor of kings, while the famous town dynasty empress, Wu Zetian, is actually a mage hero. So both are very strong and powerful figures in real, say, Chinese folklore and history. And also, they are like the how they truly were in the games.

没错。在中国，每天轻松就有超过1亿玩家在线玩这款游戏，非常容易就达到这个数字。

Yeah. And you easily get more than a 100,000,000 players online playing this game every day in China, easily. Yeah.

这数据太疯狂了，对吧？

It's crazy, isn't it? The numbers.

是的，完全正确。我在这档节目里特别喜欢分享的另一大类就是这些恋爱模拟游戏

Yeah. Absolutely. And another huge genre that I love sharing on this show are these dating simulation

孩子们。你昨天下午在办公室提到这个，我当时完全不明白你在说什么。所以我决定等到节目里再深入聊聊。请给我讲讲这些游戏吧。

kids. You brought this up in the office yesterday afternoon, and I didn't know what you're talking about. And I was I decided to wait until our chat on air to dig a little deeper. So tell tell me about these, please.

好的。我记得当时我是不是有点脸红？对，对。2017年。

Okay. So I remember it was like, am I blushing a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. 2017.

我觉得那一年《恋与制作人》爆火——国际版好像叫《Mr. Love: Queen's Choice》，光是说出这些词就让我脸红了。总之它当时风靡一时，现实生活中无论什么身份的女性——可能有男友或丈夫的——

I think that was the year when the game Love and Producer or I think the international version of it is Mr. Love, Queen's Choice makes me blush just saying these words. Anyway, it blew up. And then, you know, every girl, woman, you could be holding all kinds of social roles in real life. You could have your boyfriend, your husband, or whatever.

但在手机上你完全可以探索一段虚拟恋爱关系。游戏提供三种不同类型的帅哥：比如霸道总裁型的，还有超级可爱的小奶狗类型，会特别体贴你的需求。

But on your smartphone, you can be having this explore well, you could be exploring a relationship, a virtual relationship with I think they have, like, three choices of hot men of different variety. You know, it could be the domineering CEO, and there's the, like, super cute younger DD, younger guy, and he's, like, very attentive to your needs.

DD？是指网约车司机那种？

DD? Like a ride sharing driver?

不不，更像是年下小男友那种。对的。

More more like a like a younger guy. Yeah.

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

好吧。是的。像弟弟或者不是不是不是弟弟。生物学上。不是。

Okay. Yeah. Like a younger brother or not Not not not brother. Biologically. No.

不是那样。那种关系。

Not that. Related like that.

现在不要用兄弟这个词。

Don't use the word brother right now.

说一个年轻的

Say a young

心脏病发作。

a heart attack.

是的。一个年轻的追求者，正在追求你的关注，试图让它听起来不那么可疑。但不管怎样

Yeah. A younger suitor that who's courting for your attention, trying to make it sound less dodgy. But anyway so

你选了哪一个？

Which one did you choose?

为了节目效果我选了霸道总裁，因为你知道，我们是专业人士。我们想在节目上分享，总得尝试一下。好借口啊年轻人。不过那都是过去的事了。然后突然之间，所有女孩都在玩这个游戏。

I I chose the domineering CEO for the sake of the show because you had to, like you know, because we're professionals. We're we wanna be ready to share on the show, and I gotta have a try. Good excuse, young. But anyway, so it was back then. And then, oh, all of a sudden, all of the girls were playing this.

随着时间的推移，又出现了《恋与深空》，还有另一款类似的游戏。这类游戏背后有几家出色的创作团队。其中顶尖的游戏公司叫叠纸游戏。

And then as time moved on, there's the love and deep space. That's that's another oh, and there's, like, this other one. There are a few. But I wanna say, when you look at the creative team behind these games, it's wonderful. One top gaming company behind these kind of games is called Diageur, which is paper games.

众所周知这家公司70%的团队成员都是女性。正因如此，她们能设计出直击心灵的精美游戏，用非常巧妙的方式让我们心甘情愿付费。就像他说的，这不是性别考量，而是商业选择。女性玩家每天在手机上投入大量时间，她们的付费点可能和男性玩家截然不同。

It's famously known that 70% of its team behind this company, they're all female. And then that's why they come up with exquisite game designs that hit us so closely and in a very smart way makes us wanna pay. And that's, like he said, this is not a gender consideration. This is a business choice. And when female players spend so much time on the game every day on the smartphone and pay for things that might be quite different from what guys pay for.

举个例子，抽卡机制很常见。这些女性玩家或用户想要非常漂亮的车，这些车都设计得精美绝伦。你看起来非常困惑。

I'll give you an example. Chohaap, that's like common. So basically, these female players or users want really pretty cars. And then these are exquisitely designed, beautiful cars. You look very confused.

是啊。没错。

Yeah. Yeah.

我就坐在这儿看史蒂夫...嗯...真的很努力在理解。对。

I'm just sitting here seeing Steve Yeah. Really trying hard to understand. Yeah.

不知道。好吧，再稍微忍耐我一下。是的，这对女性来说也非常视觉化，但目的不同。而且，我最好的朋友非常沉迷电子游戏和各种游戏，她花了那么多钱，差不多六位数。

No idea. Well, just just bear with me for a little longer. Yeah. It's very visual for women as well, but it's for different purposes. And also, my best friend who's heavily into video gaming and all kinds of games, and she spent so much, like 6 digits.

她不想这个被公开。好吧。但这是超过十年的事。好吧，十年。

She wouldn't want this to be aired. Okay. But this is over like a decade. Okay. A decade.

然后就是为头像上那些非常漂亮的相框付费。我就想，认真的吗姑娘？你花那么多钱就为了头像上的一些虚拟特效皇冠？这在游戏世界里为什么这么重要？但不管怎样，这些都是游戏设计者们精心策划、成功吸引女性用户注意力和芳心的东西。

And then just paying for these frames on her profile picture that are really beautiful. And I'm like, seriously, girl? You're paying that much for a crown for some extra, virtual effects on your profile pic? Like, why is that important in the world of game? But anyhow, these are things that these game designs have very shrewdly planned and captured the attention and heart of the female users.

手游中100%的应用内消费很可观。回到剧情线。所以抱歉什么来着...我们在这上面花了很多时间，但我...

100% in app spending is big for mobile games. Back to the storyline. So what sorry. We're spending a lot of time on this, but I

请多花点时间在这上面。

Please spend more time on this.

我很好奇。那么游戏是怎么展开的？会发生什么？

I'm curious to know. So how does the game unfold? What happens?

你们的关系因为你...好吧。所以你刚遇到这个人对吧？这完全是机缘巧合，要感谢那些非常聪明的女性主导的游戏设计团队。然后你就上瘾了，你会想，哦，我是和他还是他发展关系呢？

Your relationship because you just okay. So you you just meet up with this person. Right? And it's, like, pure serendipity, and that's thanks to those very clever female led game design teams. And then you're, like, hooked, and you're, oh, do I have a relationship with him or him?

然后你需要花更多时间在游戏里，就像玩任何游戏一样。

And then you need to spend more time in the game to sort of just like any game.

去了解他们？

Get to know them?

是的。为了推进剧情。然后一旦...哦对。然后他就会离开去做别的事。但我能再和他相处五分钟吗？

Yeah. To push forward the storyline. And then once oh, yeah. And then he's gonna be away doing something else. But can I have five minutes more with him?

你要么需要付费，要么得在游戏里花更多时间完成各种任务。所以运作方式有点像经典电子游戏，但这个，你知道，只是加入了女性视角。而且女性设计团队确实非常聪明，考虑并捕捉到了女性的特定需求。通过收集的所有数据，他们知道很多用户是可能20岁出头、独自生活的女性。游戏里还有个功能...

You'll either need to pay or you need to spend more time on the game and do all kinds of missions. So it's kinda similar to the classic video game how it works, but this, you know, it's just got the female angle. And also with the female design team, it has and they they've really been very smart with contemplating and capturing the specific needs of women. And they know, thanks to all the data that they've gathered, they know that a lot of their users, for example, are females who are probably, let's say, in their early 20s and living alone. And there's one feature.

再说一次，姑娘们（可能也有些男生会付费），因为不付费就无法使用这个功能。就是付费后，你可以接到一个特定电话。

Again, girls, and maybe some guys pay up because otherwise, you cannot get this feature. And that is, you pay up, and then you can get a specific phone call.

真的会有人给你打电话？

Somebody actually calls you?

没错。就是你在游戏里所谓的'约会'对象。

Yeah. And that's that's the guy you've been quote unquote dating in the game.

不可能。

No way.

我会说，史蒂夫。哦，不。好吧。嗨呀。你今天过得怎么样？

And I'll say, Steve. Oh, no. Okay. Hiya. How was your day?

你知道的，我一直很想你。

You know, I've been missing you.

这是人类吗？

Is this a human?

嗯，它当然拥有这个由配音演员演绎的美妙声音。这是预先录制好的。

Well, it's it has this beautiful voice, of course, done by a voice actor. It is. It's prerecorded in

是啊。一个

Yeah. A

而且角色扮演。所以这是你游戏里所谓的男朋友或追求者给你打电话。当然这是预先录制的，但你知道，别告诉我这个。比如晚上，很多独自生活的女士工作一整天后可能不做饭，你会点外卖。

And and in character. So so it's your in game quote unquote, boyfriend or suitor calling you. Of course, it's prerecorded, but, you know, don't tell me that. And then let's say at night, and for a lot of, ladies living alone after a long day at work, maybe you don't cook dinner. You order food delivery.

如果你独自生活，有时对陌生人送餐时开门感到不太安全，这或许只是过于谨慎。不过你可以播放手机里的语音记录，比如那些定制语音消息，像是‘亲爱的，让我看看谁在门口？’之类的内容。这样门外的人会听到屋里有个男性。

If you're living alone and sometimes you feel a little unsafe to go answer the door when a stranger is sending you food, maybe this is being just very cautious. Anyway, you can play that phone record that voice message out loud, and then it's even got, like, custom made voice messages like, hey, honey. Let me just who's at the door? Something like that. So you play that, and whoever's outside of the door can hear, oh, there's a guy.

家里有个男人在。然后她去取东西再回来，这就成了一种安全工具。看到这些游戏设计得多贴心了吗？这背后需要女性设计师的参与。

There's a male in the house. And she goes pick up the thing and and comes back, and that becomes sort of like a safety tool. So see how considerate these games have become? You need female designers behind that.

这个设计确实非常巧妙。

It is really smartly designed. Yeah.

还是太有趣了。我依然更喜欢《古墓丽影》的劳拉或《巫师》里打怪物。但我理解你的观点。这实际上是我要举的第二个标志性例子，像《恋与深空》这类女性向游戏现在如此流行。伽马数据最新报告显示，2024年中国女性向游戏市场规模已达80亿元人民币，约合11亿美元。

Still Too much fun. I still prefer Lara Croft or going on Witcher to kill monsters. But, yeah, I I've seen your point. And yeah, that was actually the second, say, example iconic example I was I was gonna raise, but yeah, with Love and Deep Space, and other female oriented game being so popular now. I think there is one latest data from Gamma Data's China gaming industry trends and potential analysis report that's suggesting that China's female oriented game market had already reached 8,000,000,000 yuan, and that's roughly 1,100,000,000.0 US dollars in 2024.

仅《恋与深空》这一款游戏就贡献了约58.7亿元。

In this game, Love and Deep, Deep Space alone had generated about 5,870,000,000.00 yuan among that.

那么全球女性在游戏社区仍面临哪些挑战？她们如何通过创建自己的赋权空间来应对？

So what challenges do women around the world still face in the gaming community, and how are they overcoming them by creating their own empowering spaces?

是的。我在BBC上读到，许多女性玩家在网络空间仍面临重大挑战，如骚扰、言语辱骂和性别歧视。即便在2025年，这些现象仍十分普遍，迫使女性常常隐藏性别以避免负面互动。60%的女性表示曾这样做来规避骚扰，但这仍是严重问题。有研究发现约56%的女性在网游中遭遇过至少一种性骚扰。

Yeah. I I was reading about this on the BBC, and many female gamers still deal with big challenges when it comes to online spaces, like harassment or verbal abuse and sexism. They're far too common still today in in 2025, and it often forces women to kind of hide their gender to avoid negative interactions when they are online interacting during the game. Sixty percent of women have reported that they've done exactly that to avoid their harassment, but it's still a huge problem. There was a study that found that almost sixty percent of women, about fifty six percent, have experienced one or more types of sexual harassment during online gaming as well.

这确实是仍然存在的负面现象，但如果说还有一线希望的话，那就是作为对骚扰的回应，这些精彩的线上社区应运而生。女性在这些空间里建立了自己的社群、战队和直播网络，这些地方成为她们的安全港湾，可以自由交流、组队游戏、分享经历，完全不必担心遭受评判。

That's the that's the negative thing that's still existing, but the silver lining to that, if we can call it that, is that these wonderful online communities have popped up in response to this harassment, and that's where women, they've built their own. They've built their own communities and clans and streaming networks, and those spaces are a safe haven for women where they can connect, they can play together, they can share their experiences without any fear of of judgment.

是的。实际上202年在中国社交媒体豆瓣上就诞生了这样一个线上社区，目前成员已超过47,000人。虽然不能说这是全部女性玩家群体，但在这里她们不仅能安全地分享喜欢的游戏和实用技巧，还能讨论如何应对日常挑战——比如面对恶意评论时该怎么办，或者如何处理那些'一起玩吗？先加个微信？'的私信。这类社区里分享的所有应对策略都让人看到希望。

Yeah. There is actually one such online community that's founded in founded in 2020 on the Chinese social media, Douban, that actually consists over 47,000 members. Now, I'm not saying that this is whole female group, but there, the female gamers, they feel really safe about not only sharing what games they like and the techniques that they found that's helpful to play the game, but also their challenges and how they're dealing with daily challenges like when you face evil comments or how to deal with say private messages on, oh, I'll play with you. How about we adding WeChat first? So just all all tips shared in such communities is really promising.

从商业角度来看，女性在游戏界日益增长的影响力对这个行业的未来意味着什么？

From a business perspective, what does the growing power of women in gaming mean for the future of this industry?

这绝对是股不容小觑的力量对吧？数据说明一切——这是个价值数十亿美元的产业，而女性现在占据了市场的半壁江山。这意味着她们构成了企业绝不能忽视的巨大经济力量，忽视这点就太愚蠢了。

Well, it's a it's a powerhouse, isn't it? We heard the numbers. It's a billion dollar industry more, and women are now making up over half of the market. And that means that there's a really big economic force that companies can't afford to ignore. It would be stupid to do that.

因此这正在影响营销预算的分配，改变游戏开发商的研发策略，也左右着投资决策。全球范围内女性玩家占比约45%，相当于14亿女性游戏人口。

So it's influencing marketing budgets. It's influencing development strategies from game developers. It's also influencing investment decisions. And globally, female gamers, they make up about half, 45% of of the total gaming population. So that translates to about 1,400,000,000 female players.

这差不多相当于中国的人口总量。所以我们看到游戏设计风格正在因此改变，电竞领域也涌现出新的机遇。

That's like the population of China. Right? So we're seeing a reflection in the types of games that are being designed and and also new opportunities in esports too.